Elisabeth Braw is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Transatlantic Security Initiative, and a columnist for Foreign Policy and Politico Europe. We met at the Europe Future Forum in Warsaw and discussed her new book, The Undersea War: The Battle to Control the Cables and Pipelines That Connect Our World, Russian sabotage operations, whether the West should give Moscow a taste of its own medicine, and why Sweden will never surrender. Listen to our conversation. And if you enjoy what I do, please support me on Ko-fi! Thank you. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ko-fi.com/amatisak