Writer Cody Delistraty joins Vanessa to talk about his book The Grief Cure, a quest narrative through loss, myth, medicine, and modern grief culture. From the controversial diagnosis of Prolonged Grief Disorder to the American obsession with “getting over it,” Cody argues against the promise of closure, for something far messier (and more human). Also discussed: Cody’s articles on mourning in America, the “magic” of AI, and techno-spiritualism; and How to Change a Memory by Steve Ramirez.

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Our production team is Shoshi Shmuluvitz, managing producer and editor; Lily Houston Smith, senior producer; Ashley Warren, production manager; Yi-Wen Lai-Tremewan, studio recordist; and music by Mark McAdam and Amber Devereux.