Mike is the greatest man.

Mike is the best player I was against.

You ain't ever faced him.

You don't understand.

He is truly one of the best.

Michael Jorgan, I tell you I was.

I was better than Mike.

Yeah.

Yeah, for about three weeks.

He was the first dude that I met, back a back up his trash.

That dude to give you fifty real fast.

And that's did anything coming from Mike.

Mike is the best basketball player ever.

Shout out Universal Production Music, the official music provider for all the Smoke productions.

Enjoy, Oh, we appreciate you.

Man.

Have you ever sat down and had like a real off the camera conbo with mj Oh?

Yeah, what is that like looking in the mirror.

No, it's fun.

I mean it's fun.

No, we're really different.

It's crazy, Like he'll he'll compete to you anything, to you y'all different, I guess.

I mean, like he'll compete with any and everything.

I won't.

I only can people things that I really am good at.

Like, I'm not just gonna compete on something you don't know.

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.

Everything you know, he'll uh, you know, he'll talk basketball all day long and not stopping prepared.

Well, what would have happened if you know my ninety one against your O three and you know, like what this is that?

What would happened in your opinion?

Come on, you.

Can't ask him that, man.

I want to know.

Would have been complete dominant, would be seven game series.

With what he started the conversation with was well, I would have destroyed you.

You know, listen, I just I just said, listen, just remember who you're talking to.

You just started laughing.

He's like, I'm just messing with you.

I'm just messing with you, and then we just kind of moved on.

But it would been It would have been fun.

That's dope, man.

Just to even know that you'll had that conversation is done.

Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah yeah?

How bad?

I remember playing with you.

Your whole thing is that you said I want to sit at the yeah, meaning you wanted that six ring.

What did it mean not to be able to get that?

Oh?

It pissed me off, you know, but things are what they are.

You know, you gotta you you push for a goal, and my original goal was to try to win Eat eight.

And you push for it, and you push for it and you push for and you do the best you can.

But at the end of the day, you can be comfortable with the results and where they landed and where they ended up, and so you know, that's the most important thing.

That's why I can be really, really comfortable with the career that I've had because you're not worked as hard as you possibly could.

Three time NBA Champ, NCAA Champ, James Worthy.

Everybody talk about MJ's championship shot nineteen eighty three against Georgetown the championship, but you had twenty eight thirteenth to seventeen from the field.

Nobody don't talk about that.

It was on your shoulders.

But what's your take on that?

Well, you did, Joe John.

You know, if you watch the uh, the Michael Jordan documentary, it was in Chicago, not that out the hair movie.

I had a statement, you know, with Michael came to Caroline.

I tell everybody I was I was better than Michael.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know for about three weeks.

For about three weeks, man, I knew he had it.

When you're an athlete and you guys are both tough.

I watched you.

I watched your whole career.

You know, when you're when you're tough and you're not going back down from anybody, and you're gonna take him on.

But then when somebody comes along that this the fucking tougher than you, they're like he was an assassin and he bullied me.

He because you know, he's he sought out the best and everything.

If you were the best backgaming player in the dorm, he wanted to know, if you were the best card player, he wanted to find out.

And he took everything as if he was losing a game seven is losing just wasn't I didn't care what it was.

He break a table, well if he lost the back gam and so he sought me out, and you know, we practiced two hours, two and a half hours.

You guys know how some college practice.

Are you ready to get out of there?

And he would.

I'd be walking off the court and he pushed, where you're going, young, young fella, That's what he called me.

So you were a junior when he was juniors.

Freshman year, and so yeah, you know he wanted to know and uh and throughout that year, even though I was, you know, MVP.

There were some games against Virginia in the ACC tournament where Michael kept us in the game and some big shots against you know, Ralph Sampson and those guys.

And then against Georgetown we only had really five players against Patrick Ewan and my home boys sleeping floor and they were tough.

Uh, but Michael hit some big shots and kept us in you know.

I and then at the end of the game, Coach Smith wanted me to be like a decoy.

You know.

You know we had we had lost to Indiana the year before, I Siah Thomas and Bobby Knight, so getting back was special and I wanted to win or lose.

He'd been punching on Mike.

I beat, I beat.

I would always beat.

Mike doesn't Yeah, you know Zeke Zeke Ben opinionated leave alone.

Man.

He had a good career.

It was awesome.

Uh but yeah, man, uh, you know, because you know they expected me to, you know, to take the shot.

You know, we running high low against their zohn.

Patrick Ewhan was a beast, and I wanted to win and lose.

Because Michael was a freshman.

I didn't you know, I didn't know if he had it in his veins.

But uh, I was to flash in the mill.

Coach Smith didn't call it up like that, but he knew it would work out that way.

We ran our offense properly, so we ran the high low, Sam went down low, I flashed in and three guys collapsed and Michael was wide open.

Now he he didn't draw it up like that.

But at the end of the time out, you know, when you're walking back on the court, Michael was one of the last guys.

And I heard Coach Smith kind of if you get it, if you get it clean looking knocking it, you know, you know what I mean.

So and yeah, he knew, he knew Michael had it in his veins.

And yeah, that was the beginning.

We called him Mike, Mike Jordan.

Kenny said he had no handle when he came to when.

He first got there.

No handles, No, not well, Kenny had him.

Uh.

After I left, Kenny still mad at me because I recruited Kenny.

He wanted to play with me and I left after my junior year.

He and Brad Dougherty.

But yeah, he he didn't have a lot of fundamentals when he came.

I think he was a better baseball player coming out of high school.

And you know, you've heard the story of him getting cut from his high school team once, so he had a lot to work on.

He had raw talent, though raw talent, but when he got the fundamentals down after his fresh year and he worked at it because we had drill after drills after drills.

Whatever his weakness was, he was willing to work on it, and so I can't remember him having uh.

I mean, back then we ran four corners.

There wasn't a twenty four second shot clock his freshman year, so he was okay at that, but I don't remember him ever having the ball handling skills that a guard has toossess.

We got our brother Kenny Smith here today, your freshman year team, to name a few, Michael, Jordan, Brad Dougherty, Sam Perkins, yourself.

I mean, what were those practices?

Like, you know what the crazy part was that?

No, that wasn't a question who was the best playoff.

I'm gonna get that.

I want to hit that one first.

I want the best player.

Sam Perkins was the best player my freshman year, like because Sam was a four time.

All American that you know that wouldn't happen today.

Any Like, first team first team for Sam was the best player.

Michael was the most dynamic, but he didn't have a handle.

He couldn't handle the rock like in college.

No, he couldn't handle the rock.

So like even even.

At times I'd be like, you bet we play pick up, like I got Mike, You're like because I know, I'm like, I'm get up under you, like you can't.

Handle the rock, and uh what happened?

And then and then.

He's the only guy that I know that his weaknesses that he had at the end of his career was a stress.

The only person I've ever Lebron's not like that, KD No, nobody.

He's the only one I did.

His handle was crazy and his jump shot was pure.

I said, how do you miss a jump shot?

You got a perfect for him.

But we talked about it, and I was like, this is not competitive.

We talked about competitive with Mike.

So I used to say, I was like, it's like, oh, you think you could go It's like, yeah, because your handles wack.

I used to say, your handle's whack.

I could guard you, and like blah blah blah.

So now we're doing that, were playing.

He goes to the Olympics, comes back, goes to the League, comes back for the summer because all the players, with every North Carolina player came.

We all come back and play.

So the gym is the doodles like it's like any NBA team.

We would beat like in that gym without question.

And he's my moment, he's gone, I'm like, damn gang out.

He's like, my handle, been working on it, but.

I forgot accept that.

I really forgot.

I said it, and he's like, my handle, right, you're talking about my handle.

But he was like the stories are true about his competitiveness.

Like we were we were playing cup one day.

So this is when you knew you made I made I made it too.

Because the juniors and seniors, you know, even at y'all school probably picked the team.

Yeah yeah, yes, right straight out of high school went to Mexico, right.

So they picked I don't get.

This's how we do it.

So the pros go on one hand and they players college players on the other, and then you pick your team.

Yep, but you could you could pick the pros across over.

You could cross over.

So Michael and or Sam whoever, they were senior leaders and junior leaders, they picked the team.

And the first day, you know, you know, as a freshman.

You're just sitting they're not picking you.

So you get on the quarter end.

So about two weeks later, a bout a week later, uh, Michaels picking and he's like, I got I got New York.

They used to call me New York.

I got New York.

It's like, oh shit, I got picked first.

He was like, first, it's twenty pros in the gym.

I was like, oh, it's case.

I was like, so my my confidence was boost So now we're playing right, and we went in.

We went in games and so every time we win, you know, you go get water.

And I'm watching Mike and he's standing in the middle of center court.

I'm like, I walk up, like, yo, what are you doing.

He's like, I want the mother because to know that I'm never leaving the court.

I'm gonna be the use to stand here at last.

I was like, all right, so.

We both.

How we I mean, he was like, I mean, he was the first dude that I met.

That could back up his trash like every day every day, always a talker, always a talker, and always backed it up though, like and he really took more pride, especially than his defense.

He's like Walter Davis.

You're not scoring today.

You're not scoring today, Walter Davis like he That's the type of energy he was on all the time he and when he when he got to the league.

So we had dorms, and our dorm numbers don't change.

So if you had dorm number eight, it's the same phone number next year.

You're just a different person.

So so all of when he comes in town, this is before the Instagram, and you'd hear the phones go bring and somebody hang up bring and you just hear going out.

So it's him and all he say is schools in session, schoo.

So everybody come in the hallway, like Mike's here, Mike's here, right, Mike.

So he go and he called each room to let her know come to the gym.

School in session, so the gym would be packed.

We got four thousand people watching our pickup games.

That's crazy, four thousand.

That's dopest hell.

It was.

It was.

It was unbelievable that time basketball was a different There was no Charlotte Hornets.

So like people would and this is no social media, and people that.

All hold campsites word them.

Out and they would be for it would be four thousand people when he came in that gym.

Good old, I mean obviously with his competitiveness and his desire to get better at a young age, did you see him possibly being a great I.

Knew he would be great.

I never thought he'd be the greatest because when I first saw him, and then when I saw him when we even in practice, like you don't like, I guess it's like have a.

Buutiful wife and you like take it for granted.

Because he there every day.

You see, you see it every moment.

You know, you see every moment you know a beautiful person you're around.

You see their bad side too, you see the days that they're in the mood.

So for him, I saw those moments and I was like, but then when he when he left and he came back, I saw that the energy that he put into his game, like he never stopped working.

Man Like his stelf is not an accident.

Like it's not like, oh he was gifted.

No, he was the most fundamentally sound player that ever played the game.

If you watch the videos, his his left handed is in the correct paths and lane.

His footwork is unapeckable.

The offensively you know, his jab step is he's the always ball, moved, beat, stay still like all of those things were all the time.

And then he was the best athlete.

Most guys who were athletic didn't rely on that.

You know, his greatest even you know, and this is not a not but his greatest Claude Drexler was.

That was the difference between him and Mike.

To me, it's just the fundamentals of job step and that's, you know, the stuff that Dean Smith learned.

But uh, and it Mike gets a lot of credit for, like his quotes, but it's just Dean Smith's quotes.

It's stolen.

It's just he just adds, explicits everything everything that Coach Smith said to us, That's what Mike said.

Every know you you can pull it.

It's every interview.

It's plagiarism to the fire.

Let's welcome to the show.

Lawrence Taylor, what do you remember about the pickup games of North Carolina on the basketball court?

I mean you were in school with somebody.

Let me tell you something.

Hey, look we get back in the day.

We used to dad going to go out there and play and play.

And and I remember.

For the the intermediate Uh yeah, yeah, we won the championship because you know, but we was disqualified because we cheated.

But you know we ain't really cheat.

One of our players he was actually he wasn't actually in school.

Yeah, technicality against that.

But I used to go out there and play with all the boys, I mean, Jordan James Worthy, all those guys that I used to go.

Out there and play.

And what was.

Your game like?

Well, see the problem is I couldn't hit nothing from like thirty five feet but thirty one.

Thirty is it?

And they used to say they just say, let's say, well I could, I could, I could shoot the ball.

I'm alf in the decent in defense, I already got mad because they only give you six files.

Garden getting more.

Than six fis I need more than six.

Imagine somebody imagine you having more than six pounds dead.

Lt is on me.

I'm passing that bitch.

Cut it out, someone else do something.

I love the years that Carolina.

I think it's one of the best schools far as getting meeting people and and and and.

Just that the whole preparing you for life.

Yeah, yeah, because I've been to a lot of ship and the lot of ship that Carolina, you know, been threatened that I may listened one year.

Okay, I'm not gonna tell you.

Come on, going in too much.

Senior year and we're out and some of my boys and stuff, and they got this big old fest of own stuff, right.

So we go to the festival because it's right there at Aaron House.

And we go to the festival and a couple of my boys stole a couple of items from the festival.

So they gave him to me the whole because like, you know, ain'tbody gonna fuck Maybe I mean sall my language, but anybody gonna mess with me.

So I sit there and I held the ambers and then all of a sudden, the the the lady that's what the ta or whatever that that the lady is, she came over there and started fussing, arguing stuff like that.

Anyway, I got sent to what back in college, uh to court, Uh you know the campus court, CA.

You know.

So I got sent there, me and a couple of mother boys.

And so what they did is I wasn't allowed to stay on South campus anymore, you know.

So I wasn't allowed to stay on Stamp campus.

And you know this going into my senior year and I'm worried about if I'm gonna be able to.

Play my senior year.

So decided, you know, he can play, He's just not allowed to be on South campus.

Okay, So they put us.

On in a building on North campus, fourth story building, and it was four of us guys.

For the We all had a floor.

I could stay on the first floor that somebody else got stay on the second, four, third, fourth, greatest segment.

I was gonna say, so you got in trouble and it got better.

Oh God, the greatest.

Take a girl hey, and it was a girl's dormitory right across now, greatest.

It was one time the trouble was that wouldn't worked for me.

All trouble turns into gold.

I'll tell you speak to your friendship.

Obviously every week you got a good relationship with Michael Jordan.

But how does that start?

And how is it in one of those golf matches, like I know you guys both being very competitive.

Well, Mike, when I actually my senior year, not my senior right after I seen my rookie year in and at the Giants.

Mike came to school that year.

So I came back to finish up school that summer and so he was playing with the team practice and with the team, and and uh, what's the coach?

Same Dean Smith allowed me to practice with him, right, he allowed me to practice, and Mike was always every time I turned around, he just taked.

Hey call him foul, foul, foule file.

I just hit you a little bit, Come on, man.

So every time Mike had the ball, I wanted guard.

I wanted to guard Mike.

Because he was then it was the paint fre you guns I am because I know Michael was dropping you off.

Yeah, yeah, he's gonna drop me off.

But he's gonna drop me off of a little something in his egg gonna Yeah, I'm gonna throw something now.

So you know, I'm not saying that I'm a fair player.

I'm just saying I'm a player.

I'm not saying but hey, we used to have a great time doing that.

And he is, truly, you know, one of the best.

But I'm the best when I come to when it comes to fouling.

Though, I would you dun't?

You can't ask that question, could I dunk?

How you want it?

Really?

How you want it?

Okay, how you want it?

I know I heard it.

I heard you want it back.

What's all that said?

I could do anything I wanted to your way.

I was an athlete, man, Yeah yeah, I mean I was in the NBA and I couldn't do half that ship.

So I had to ask, I couldn't do it?

How did how did golf come into your game?

And obviously you guys have heard legendary stories about just the competitives with you two on the golf course.

Mike, it's competitive in anything he do.

Okay, listen, he does nothing half ass nothing.

I mean I don't.

I don't care if it's if it's if it's shooting marbles.

He does nothing half ass.

You know, he won't sit beat the best at everything he does and pretty.

Much is.

Welcome to the show regimember.

So obviously your ship talking is so legendary.

You're one of the very few and maybe the only person that got in got into a fight with Kobe and MJ.

What kind of homewor did you do for both them?

Dudes?

I just think they got in the fights because they got tired of chasing this nigga.

Like, man, slow down, man, you got that.

All right.

I've been waiting, Okay, yeah, I've been waiting because people always ask me, and I've been waiting for the right forum to tell the story.

Welcome to death Rope.

I mean, we're honored.

We will start with the MJ fight.

Shall we watch them?

We shall a little trip down memory.

But you gotta go back, gotta go back to when they have the ball.

So go back, go back, old on.

He got to pull the whole clip up, the whole clip up.

Here we go.

Yeah, so this is it.

Watch this one two.

I'm like, okay.

I tried to get him there and he got out the way.

So I was like, all right, tipping, I'm going straight to him.

Let him know.

Okay.

I had to hurry up and turn around because I don't want him to come in like choke hold being he tried to rake you.

So I'm like, okay, we both get into we get into this.

He scrapes my eye like I can't.

See, like he was trying to scratch it.

I saw him, right, So all this goes down.

This is in ms A, by the way, this is it.

We're at home.

We are at home and Marcus Square Arena playing Michael Jordan's.

So this ship goes down.

Ronnie Nune, Yeah, that.

Little comes in breaks it all up.

They huddle up.

I'm thinking, okay, so back in the day, a lot of it.

Look at this, scratch, scratch the crap out of me fifteen face, look at this.

But look I'm holding them and controlling it.

I'm like, okay, but you ain't going anywhere.

Yeah, those pull ups break stadium.

So I'm thinking, okay, maybe we'll get double technicols.

Maybe if I get.

Thrown out, he's gonna get thrown out.

We both are throwing Jess curseyes man.

Okay, Jess had a fresh do for the game, was clean.

So just you got kicked out the game.

I didn't know that.

That's wowches No.

Three.

They ain't never throwing Mike, who's free throws right now?

You found him rich.

They thought Mike got no motherfucking game.

In our in our building, maybe Chicago, in our building.

He's shooting the technicals too.

God damn forty five on us.

Not that he wouldn't have scored forty five with me in the game, but ship give me a chance in our building.

MJ threw three punch in the league and then get kicked out the game.

The next day, I got a one game suspension.

You got kicked out any game suspension and he got three games?

So why did he get three games?

Then right and kicked out in the game.

Wow, So they let him play the game.

The suspended three game and then suspended us.

And that's what they did me.

At the San Francisco prom Come on.

Man, mix in town.

Max said, when Mike kame to Houston, all his women started working.

Here's the here's the thing, man, you woill see these you woill see you know, you go out to a club or whatever, bar, whatever, and you see these same chicks.

Real regular you come to a bulls game.

Why are you dressed like it's Sunday church?

Man?

I told you about this.

Mike come to your city is coming out right, and they think they're gonna getting married.

Hit one of them things.

It's gonna get hit by Mike.

Of my whole career.

One thing I wish a regret.

And you know people will say I wish we would have had I would have had more than one series versus dude.

I'm not saying I would have won.

You would have won, probably not.

But you're judged like wins.

I won a few battles.

He always won the wars He's got six of them and we took them seven games.

I just wish we.

Would have had I wish I could have gone against him more.

Yeah, and I don't want people jumping on the internet.

I'm not saying we would have beat them.

I would if I would have been the same thing.

But man, I want to see I got confident.

I want to see how I am versus that dude thing too, you know, I want to see how I am versus that dude.

He obviously had a lot of respect and spoke highly of you, But what was different when you played a game against him and the bulls.

I can only speak for myself.

I can't speak for Max.

There was no weaknesses.

Try to force them left, you try to force them right, You try to top lock them, you try to hold, you try to be physical with him.

I I equated to like this.

It was like and maybe this is how sinners feel when they were going against Shack.

He was Shack of shooting guards.

I don't care.

There was no way you can get around them, in front of them.

He was just too strong.

And then he had a forty eight inch vertical, so there you were never blocking his shot and he could stop on a die his handles, and then he held the ball like it was like an orange.

So he's tawning you holding the ball on your face.

The tongue is all out and shit and showing the fucking gum and all that shit.

And then come down.

The black eyes are looking at you, and I'm looking right back at it, and I'm the fuck I ain't going anywhere, and he's looking at you, and man, no weaknesses, none, zero.

I could look.

I loveday.

I'm watching.

I'm always trying to find a tail, and I found a tail on everyone.

I could not find a tail.

Not one damn Like, Okay, if he goes left x amount of times, what is his percentages?

Great?

Right?

Great, step back great, great, great, rebounding great, passing great.

You can't punk him.

I'm trying to find something.

So it's almost like ship by committee there, key, I mean.

We got to get some help down this motherfucker.

Come on, come on now, I've been calling to crowd to bed.

That's the toughest shouting basketball, which is the fight away.

He shot that ship, I mean high clip at the toughest.

Cannot block it.

You can't get it.

But see fade away and it's at forty eight inches.

When it got to learn how to put his back to the basket and get in that post.

That's what he got.

Then got he would do the one.

Yeah, he get that.

He get that.

Him and maybe maxkinis hast to this picking rolls.

Don't let your big be one step to he split and then now it's up to dyl and Antonio alone.

Here's your problem.

Now he splits.

But then when you would extend him.

To half court, he would get this shoulder or this shoulder which way he was coming off, and get under the big and then it's downhill.

So now if you're trailing, as shooting guards are, you got to get under and then he's put and on top of that he can shoot.

He can shoot.

They talked about it.

I've seen a lot of videos about his leticism, but I seen the video recently and when he got a till ball and they passed on them, he went up a vertical on Charles Barker.

That ship was so bad.

I'm like, that's another thing that people don't understand.

Not only could he he's known for, you know, the two handed, but he could one leg to either leg too, Yeah, either leg, like it was and be out till four or five five o'clock in the morning, smoking, drinking whatever.

Yeah, car, yes, all this shit games at seven, seven thirty.

Sometime he'll go play golf the same day he played.

Man, it's almost like he was trying to make it fair.

Let me go get a buzz into some heat strokes.

You guys can have a chance to know.

Didn't have a tail, guys, and you know it.

You hear it all the time.

Who's the goat, who's the greatest and all that between you know him and Lebron.

And I try to stay away from that because I went against Lebron.

His first year.

He was a rookie my last year, so I don't have no point of reference.

But I will say Lebron has the greatest career.

I say it all the time.

He has the greatest career.

But Mike is the best basketball player ever.

Welcome to the Show.

Only the eighth player to average twenty five points ten consecutive seasons, nine time All Stars, seven time All NBA retire when he retired, the seventh leading score at the time twenty over twenty six thousand points.

But again, that's something we touched on the credit and the respect because you were going head to head with MJ a lot of times but got the better of him a lot of times.

Yeah, he was a bad man.

He was good.

You know what.

I found this.

Out early, I would say about a couple of years ago, and didn't realize that he and I was only two fold in the NBA history that average thirty against one another our whole career, for a whole career.

Really, you had to man.

I had to get thirty against him on there too.

He was a man.

And you shot nearly fifty percent while doing it by average thirty.

And that's a lot of things.

People don't realize the efficiency that I score with that I didn't take thirty shots in May twelve, you know, and especially in that era with the physicality and you're getting hit in touch and still they able to be that efficient.

Yeah, and it says a lot.

Yeah, but yeah, MJ was.

Do you have a battle that comes to mind when you I mean, obviously you guys played a ton of times.

I've said this many times, you know, people heard me say this.

I think I scored fifty seven in Atlanta and I didn't play the fourth court and we went back to Chicago.

A little while later and we're in the locker room suiting time.

MJ walks down the locker room shuitting time.

I'm saying, in your yeah, I'm just coming out, Like what are you coming in there for?

Like he come in the training room or something weaker.

He walks by me, walks by Cavill to get the Randy Whitman and taps him on the ass.

They said, lay him up, it's going to be a long night.

And turns to walk out, and I.

Ain't know what to say.

I'm shocked.

I'm like, well, you tell that somebody, Scottie Pippin, I'm gonna kick his ass.

I didn't know what to say.

Man, you know, I'm like, I'm blown away.

Man.

He had sixty that night?

What you do?

We we won the game?

Ye had sixty that night.

I had a hell of a game.

But he had sixty, bro, And when it wasn't like no, like it was a hard sixty either.

The way he was scoring, he was like he was on a miss.

I think he was like pissed off that I had fifty seven, you know a few days before, and he went crazy.

But I said it loud enough so you could hear it too, Yeah.

Yeah, and so it's it really set up the games we played against each other our career.

You know, game I'll have forty three here forty one, or he'll have forty six and I have forty.

I mean it was go like that all the time, battles.

You know.

He was a hard man to beat.

That team was so good though, That team was that was That team was made up of a bunch of great great role play and I think Scottie Pippen I have a lot of respect for.

I think he's one of the greatest role players they ever played this game.

Yeah, he probably the best, Yeah, they ever played this game.

And so he was a great compliment to Jordan.

It's so hard for a lot of players, especially in Mike's era, to give him his props.

Why is it so easy for you to give him his props?

And if you ain't ever faced them, you don't understand.

If you ain't ever faced Mike on, you can't make that comment.

Yeah.

Man, I played against some of the most hard nosed, talented players ever played this game.

He was a phenomenon and he had attitude with it.

I mean he was when you played against Mike.

His eyes are bloodshot red every game, like he was possessed.

And I just sitting there and said, I got to go work tonight because Jesus is coming, you know.

And so he and I, you know, we had so much respect.

But I'm gonna tell you when I knew how good he was.

When we was in college.

I was a junior, he was a freshman.

Were playing Carolina and the first time James Worthy and I had a chance to play against one another since high school.

In high school, we we came out the same area but never played against others.

So that Carolina game we played, were going back and forth.

Or the first player of the game, I went up and I caught you know, Worthy's finger roll and I wanted to, you know, set the tone.

I threw it like six rod in the stands.

You know this goal, We're gonna go.

We gotta come.

And the game was back and forth the whole game.

Close Worthy with having the hell of a game.

I was having the hell of a game.

In the last two minutes of the game, a young kid named Michael Jordan took over by himself.

A freshman.

He's a I said, I was like, who is this kid?

Right here, man, And so I knew I knew this he was gonna be a great pro.

I didn't know he gonna be that good of a pro.

And but that's kind of set at the tone for me and my thoughts of what I saw.

And because, like I said, if you hadn't played against Mike, you have no clue.

You have no clue how good he is.

Honor to have you on the show today.

The one and only Craig.

Hodges talk to me about the one time you guys are finishing up the season against Miami, right and you're going to see him in the first round of the playoffs exactly.

We're playing in Miami and were rolling at this time.

The system is system is really playing for itself.

And that's the cool part about the system.

Once you get into it, you just come to games.

Man, you didne did it so much and it flows.

So we're going to shoot around and we're leaving shoot around and we're on the bus and them JS like, man, drop me off here and drop him off at the bar.

He say, you gonna have some beers, right, Huh sayn have beers?

The okay, gonna have some beers.

So he tells us to pick him up on the way back to the game.

We picked him up.

He still got his sweats on, you know, MJ.

Come the game shooting and boot it all right, still got his sweats on.

Pick us up, you get on the bus.

Yeah, man, feeling good, right, bubbly gets me to be on it.

Got thirty at half all right, going through warm ups.

Man, I'm seeing three rams.

I'm gonna show that to one in the middle.

Okay, that's hard, okay, and then told us if y'all can't beat him, we don't need to win a championship.

Y'all can beat him without me.

But came in there and he got it done hurly.

And when sat down, we're.

Standing talking to KG and the next thing, Jr.

Is there.

Hey, one of my favorite stories, you told one of my idols is the story with this man that's coming in right now.

With my show.

Yes, sure, hey, Extezu nudge all my idols burn guy.

Rider, big bro right here, boy, Hey, y'all.

Don't even know many.

This is my god right here, this is my god your.

Favorite stories And if you guys missed it, you're gonna get it today.

So you guys were playing bulls in Minnesota.

No, we was in Chicago, Chicago.

It's my first time back to the store.

You got it.

We're back in Chicago.

I told you, I got like twenty games under my belt.

I figured it out.

I got my little rhythm.

Jayall's All Star for him and Chrystal Laighton.

But we back in Chicago, so I'm just fresh out of high school.

We get back and I got like three hundred, probably about three hundred guys in the joint, you know, just they in the house.

You know what I'm saying.

I got them right here too.

They're like a little bowl right here, so I can see everybody coaching everybody.

So I'm just in a different energy.

My teammate got crashed out and Ronnie, you remember Ronnie.

Ronnie was in a bad crash.

So I didn't really get no sleep.

So I'm running on fumes anyway.

Start the game, and yeah, I'm having a decent game, and yeah I'm just feeling good.

I'm just being honest, like we're on some young wow shit out here.

You feel me?

And then that whole thing man uh Jr.

And it kind of going at it.

But Jay y'all winning that you know, he's holding his own.

So I'm just feeling good.

Come out to Tom out and I'm just like, hey, man, keep going you know what I'm saying, saying you too, man, So I go, Man, you're killing the small fucker man, like you know what I'm saying.

I'm gonna come down and I'm just throwing some I'm just throwing some ship.

You know what I'm saying.

He can't figure out what's going on.

I'm actually trying to help you, Like, dog, can you get the phone on you?

Okay?

I'm like, Lord, it was hidden ones I've never heard before, music I've never heard before.

Said I said, let me just turn it off.

I don't know what's going you need a minute.

Him and him and m J are going at it.

Yeah, they going at it.

But in the time I would come out, you know, if I'm being honest, it was just it just in the rhythm of the game.

So it ain't really nothing too crazy.

But he got it going.

So I'm just doing something, keep going tight whatever, right because we know it's the bulls.

So this is when they was the bulls.

So as we going into it, I was like, man, keep killing that motherfucker.

Man woo.

So I just get on by myself.

He understand I'm young, and wow he let me yeah yeah, yeah.

So when I go off, he like, so I hear him and MJ talking like yeah, and then ain't nobody really saying that the mic like this?

You know, Mike's so heavily respected that you know what I'm saying.

So I'm just on some young bo I'm like, yeah, so I doubled back ball ain't out yet?

Yeah yeah.

So when I came back with it, yeah, keep kicking his ass and then try to get out of He was like, what is this saying?

And then he was like, noah, he don't know how we you know what I'm saying.

So he was like, nigga, y'all better.

And then I started them get a little extra aggressive with the conversation.

Was like, oh shit, what So he was like, hold on, don't look at me, and that's all I heard you say.

And when I said that, I saw studying body language and yeah the rest is history.

Yeah.

Crazy.

What did he say to get you in the hot seat?

Nah?

Nah, no, no, no.

He was asking.

He he asked me.

He asked y'all what I said.

And then Jay y'all said he repeated, he said, and then he kind of looked at me and kind of put the hands on the hill, like what did you say?

I said, nigga, keep kicking his ass.

You busting this motherfucking ass and adapted.

When we dapto and I had to go, you know, I went back over MG, had you repeat it?

He said, what he's shaped?

Then he said he was.

Right there, that's the that's the PG version, right, I mean the reguard version is yeah.

I mean I used to have good games against Mike.

I was quiet though, fact right, because you don't want to make Mike up.

So he asked me prior to playing against the Bulls, like how you be doing against Mike.

I'm like, I get my twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, is you know what I mean?

I hold my own all my own.

So we're playing and going to the four.

I got about nineteen something like that.

I'm having I'm having a good right on pace.

I'm having a good game right right on Pays.

I'm watching it and.

He in Chicago.

He's serving Scottie.

He's really all around in that game, one of his breakout games.

I feel point Scotty, so I'm dashed.

I got Scotty in the stands.

Yeah, he was on some the Chicago Oakland ship.

He was hyped.

To the roof talking and it's quiet.

He said, man, you keep going that, Mike, and keep going at that motherfucker and Mike right there.

And we've been hyped all game, you know.

Ship.

I went based like dunked on Mike.

And I think robbing right, you know, right, he came through the middle, dumk dom Loop Loop Louke Longley, nasty and this way.

Yeah, we was we was we was talking ship, slapping hands, you know, we weren't quiet.

We was having this right.

We're young, wow but young and wow but but okay.

Order had time amount the store.

Yeah, absolutely, quickly walk out the time out.

Man, you keep killing this motherfucker.

Man.

I hear him right, you know what I mean.

I hear you.

So I'm looking hear me back when he'll do.

That, and I'm like, you keep killing mother fuck he can't funk with you, dog.

I was like, I was like, right.

Right, right, right, you know what I mean.

Mike standing with a fly?

Was it, by the way, right right, young dude.

This is my third season, this is first season.

So I'm young too.

I'm with the ship, you know what I mean.

And that's how I played.

So we we vibe right away, you know what I mean.

So, but I'm like, man, this Mike Man.

I grew up on Mike Man.

I remember seventh grade having his shoes on stuff like that.

That dude to give you fifty real fast, right, So I'm like, uh right, right then he doubled down, triple down.

I think, say it again, Man strong for this motherfucker right, keep killing this motherfucker man right, and you.

Know kg B, you know he right here, you hear me, you know what I mean.

So he ain't giving me nothing, no, he like yeah, right right right, really get off, don't get piped.

So I get the and Mike right here, Mike right here on the back of leg.

So Mike right here, like.

On the back lig he on the back lid like oh yeah yeah, oh yeah.

In the back y like old grandfather shoot the bubble gum.

And right there.

You know what I mean.

You got to be in trouble, right type ship?

Right, you get the switch right switched leather belt on the switch?

Which one you want up?

So we walked by Mike looking at me and looking at KG and looking at me.

So my spider and sticks told me, you know, to go a little closer to Mic and holler at him, right, I said.

Cool down a little bit.

But this way he got that understanding.

I said, Mike, Man, young boy, Man, he don't he don't really know what time it is.

You know what I mean.

He don't know the name of the game.

You know what I mean.

And Mike said, Mike an't really paying attention.

He hear me, but he like killer Mode, so's not registering.

I said, I said, too late.

I didn't know, you know what I mean.

I said, you know, he don't know what you talking about.

Man, Just you know if they're talking being you know how it be.

Man, You know what I mean.

He don't know what's up.

You know what time it is?

He's like, okay, all right, all right.

When the game started, all I know is they usually run triangle, none of that.

I'm on him.

And it seemed like the shake Contino and as even you shake you to work, it seemed like everybody disappeared.

I felt everything.

By yourself, by myself, by yourself.

Right, So he hadn't done that the whole game, so he caught the ball.

When he did, I don't know where the way.

It was a little sign that they had and everybody moved out the way right right.

He did it four or five times in a row.

Bucket Yeah, found yeah, and one and I jump.

I jumped high.

So he is he had that fade away.

He'd be leaning his foot of like a his foot of touch you you know what I mean.

He'd be leaning right and I'm on my I hit hands and one I said, damn right.

That was about his knife and ten points straight, you know what I mean.

So he wasn't done.

Bam, found bam.

And even hell you by yourself.

Then he he was hitting about two tough shots.

He ran off about fifteen sixty seventeen word word business yeah, yea yeah, that was about about four.

Yeah, he was like fifteen straight.

I sols that we could do nothing.

I come back and we come back.

Yeah, we come back.

It's a timeout.

We out of breath.

We out of breath, not like like you can hear you can hear us.

I'm like, man, this is motherfucking KG talking ship to my fucking right right.

Nobody talked to fucking Mike.

Man.

I gotta guard this moke fucking mind.

You know what I mean.

Right, That's when he was crazy.

No man, my fun jay, my fun man.

I said, oh good man, I told you shut the funk up.

Man, it's Mike nigga.

I gotta guard him.

You ain't anybody ship like.

And then it hit me.

I was like, damn, that was real.

I ain't went out there, are you right?

You know it was a little defeated Mike talking ship like y'all done.

Ya ain't even gonna fight back.

I mean, oh got it?

You got Oh yeah, yeah, y'all done like you got it?

Man's like, man, I was telling him, may keep blesting that niggas.

He wasn't giving me nothing back.

Hey.

I wanted him to give me some okay, yeah yeah yeah, I want some wild ship like.

Right right right, like right right, like right right.

Look, I got it kg right here, Mike.

I can see y'all right, we play hoop right right.

I could see peripheral peripherals right.

So I'm like, right, I've been Mike right there a scene.

Right, I'm like, man, this U tripping, you know what I mean, Like like.

You know how basketball is real?

Right?

So Mike was one of them killers, how cold, how I feel Kobe became right, you know what I mean.

I've seen you know, like so Kobe my first three years he was playing behind Eddie.

He'd come in and you know, do what he do.

I'm already warm.

I'm grown ass.

Man twenty five six to twenty to twenty three, right, you know so.

But he had a hell of a crossover.

He's fast, and he really had that killer instinct.

Mike was a different animal altogether to me, right, and I'm not trying to put nobody against nobody close.

Kobe is a close thing to come to Mike, period.

I think right after Mike as far that wing play, you know what I mean, That's what I feel.

But Mike had a different energy to him, and he had levels.

He could turn up two three four levels any reason.

Some people turn up a level or two.

He turned up two three four, right, and it's real.

You know.

He didn't play with the ball, so he not gonna cross it between the legs, you know, like the do today rock drip about four or five times he's going, he looking right at you, and he handling his business quick, intimidating.

You know what I'm saying.

We couldn't even help him because it was like two dribble, pull up, one dribble, pull up fake Jeff.

It was like, and that's the back when you have to play one on one d you know what I'm saying.

It was basic.

And then listen, if you're at the top of the key and you buy yourself and this just think about top of the top of the three point line to the free throw line.

Bro, we can't help you.

So so it was like it was like it was like it was that kind of bag of work where Jay Alwards.

Just had to take it.

But then we're going to nothing in and you know what I'm saying.

You think they letting him be j They not calling no fouls, you know what I'm saying, And he just eating off that man.

Bro shot the shot to them, yo, because it was real.

It was real and that was an experience.

Bro.

I got the numbers from the game that night, so the bulls end up winning by three KG.

You had sixteen points, fifteen rebounds.

That was reaching for the young boy that nineteen You feel me Jr.

You had twenty nine with seven.

I told you, Bro, I told you, I told you, Bro, Bro, I'm bro bro listen.

Oh, I felt like I was a fan.

They got to sit on the beach.

I got to watch one of my favorite players play every night.

And then I'm watching them play Clyde Mitch Spree, I'm watching them play.

You feel me?

So I'm like, Man, we've been argument in the barber shop and man, j y'all run and shit might be shaking.

Bitch, second chewing guard in the league.

Shit, I said, every night.

Shit he postioning people up.

Blah blah blah.

Man, mother, shit, I told you had twenty nine broad knew that.

Wow the show man running Maxwell.

Michael Jordan said about Maxwell, something's wrong with it, guy Kenny, he fights me every day.

That brings his son wearing air.

Jordan apperil what prompted him to say that?

What's he talking about?

Mike?

He said, God, right now, but no, Mike, Mike is the greatest man.

Mike is the best player I ever played against.

Man, your hands.

Down, Man, never saying nothing like this ship.

Make it work?

Though, Oh yeah, I'm gonna make it work.

I was, yeah, yeah.

I said that's it.

But that's all I could do, just like, you know, cut down his percentage.

You can't never stop, No motherfucker like that.

You gotta make it tough.

You know it is, man, you know you know you got to make a tougher motherfucker like that.

So that's all I was trying to do.

Make it tougher that motherfucker.

And he was already bigger than me.

Ship, I'm sixfold.

I ain't never wore one hundred and ninety five pounds so in my life, and my biggest weight I was one ninety four so, and this motherfucker was to eighteen and six six and jumping everywhere ever I turn around looking at the bottom rep motherfucker shooting mother.

The motherfucker done spent off me and just tuk off.

I ain't never see a motherfucker just spend and jump at the same time.

I man, just just gone, just gone.

I was like, good, Ship is crazy.

Man, do you do you do you have a moment?

O G do you have a moment when he was playing against him and he did something when you weren't out of court.

Like yeah, man, now, yeah, that's what I used to do all the time.

This motherfucker.

I'd be like, man, I know I just played the best fucking defense on this mother and he spent on me this one time in Houston.

You know, everybody coming out there.

All them bitches came out there to see mikeel everybody you know here they come and see Mike.

And I said, yeah, this motherfucker got this nigga jersey all morning.

They got Max.

Quit old Max for the night.

Gotta go out here.

His mother, So this mother.

Was spending on men.

Don't sit out of me.

Man.

It hit me on my ass when he's running back.

I grabbed when I went and grabbed his mother.

Man, keep your motherfucker, do not touch me, motherfucker.

Keep your hands to your motherfucker self.

Well we love Mike is the best, right, Yes.

Go, Welcome to the show.

Charlie Sheen.

Talk to us about how you developed a friendship with Michael Jordan's.

Well, how did that happen?

Uh?

It started with that the one thing that's in the dock.

Yeah, and uh, this just this opportunity just fell out of the sky.

There was this show, short lived show pitting actors against athletes in their in their respective sports right.

And and the card we drew was was Jordan in a in a two on one and it was me and my dad and so.

We didn't.

I mean, we were just like, sure, why not, we'll get embarrassed on on national television together, you know.

Yeah, he was something happened that.

Day before, guess so yeah about that.

No, it was just one of those things because you know, I I I never played on a team.

I just played baseball, you know.

But I shot with Dad in the backyard like my whole childhood.

In fact, I had to grow taller than him so I could finally block his baby hook one day because that thing tortured me, tortured me, and like I, I willed myself to reject it.

And so he and I were, you know, we we we'd accepted the gig and and and he was like, you know, what's our plan against this guy?

And I was like, I don't.

I don't.

I don't have one.

But if we just spread the floor, if we just don't get you know, clumped up, I don't think he can guard two people at the same time.

But I don't know if he could do that right.

And I told I told Dad, I said, hey, man, do not do not roll out that that hook shot on him, because he's gonna block it with his armpit.

And there's a if you ever get a chance to see that whole game, not just what's in the dock.

There's a moment where Dad does a head Fig tries it and Jordan blocks it with his elbow.

Yeah it was awesome, but yeah, he but he had to shoot his free throws with his eyes closed, so you know, bit hamstrung there.

We've actually done that in the game though.

Yeah, wow, damn because somebody was, uh, he was what what like what instigated that?

Normally normally talking trash to somebody.

Braun tried it too.

That's awesome.

Here it is right here, Kobe did it like that?

Well I saw that in person.

So yeah, So then I got his number after that, and we stayed in touch, and then I would go, you know, when I could afford it, right when I'm you know, a p after platoon, right, and I would fly out to Bulls home games, you know, and so I was kind of stalking him as well, you know.

But yeah, and then then we did uh, then we worked together on a on a on a commercial campaign, we did Haynes, we sold underwear together, you know, So that was that was pretty cool.

Any truth to him saying he didn't believe you eating him when you got to the underwear campaign twenty years later.

Yes, yes, he raised it from his memory.

We were doing this interview.

And uh, it was like a behind the scenes thing just for their their content reel.

And and so the guy the interview asked about that game and I'm like, well, yeah, I'm not here to rub it in his face.

But did yeah, And he's like, no, you didn't.

No, you didn't.

Uh uh you did not.

And I'm like, well, I can appreciate that, but it's on video.

He was like, don't matter, don't matter.

You didn't win, you didn't win.

And I just thought, wow, I guess if you could just convince yourself of something like powerful, change the outcome.

But no, he's a he's a he's a lovely man.

That's amazing.

There was a time when I would text him and this dude would literally respond in like fifteen or twenty seconds.

And I never did it like in front of people to show off, like watch how quickly MJ gets back to me.

Right, No, But I was just like, wow, it's but I would use it like that's now the bar and I would tell my friends, I'm like, dude, it's been like four hours Michael Jordan responded, So it was a valuable tool.

For me, you know.

Oh and then so I missed.

I think I missed my first free throw, right, but then I hit I hit eight in a row, and then on the last shot, he's he's seated like three feet from me, and just under his breath he goes choke and I missed the last one.

Yeah, so he got in my head, you know, hasn't he?

Yes, that he just erased it from a memory, so it never happened.

That's that sound like?

I mean it why why is there even a debate?

Right right?

Never?

I mean it just feels kind of obvious, right yeah.

That Welcome to the stage.

Larry Johnson to Space jam picture.

Yeah, oh yeah, get us about what you mean.

You're gonna get into what talk to us about space gym and what what was that?

What that was like?

Can I tell y'all story?

I hook y'all laughing?

Then what was that called?

Right there?

That was?

That was your ladies and gentlemen.

That was Michael.

They built that because Mike, I think we was there a month a little over month.

Mike was there the whole summer.

So they built this like this is like a gym for him to practice in and get down in.

And it was better than some arenas.

Bro the shower was.

This was unreal.

And it was ball games every day.

And you know the lot of cats in LA.

So they was coming down Reggie, you know.

Uh.

And and you guys see what's my big guy name, Sean Bradley.

If you show that picture, guess who I hung out with for a month.

Money had Sean Bradley was me.

And guess something.

Ne Uggs was hurt.

Mugs was hurt.

Muggs had just had knee surgery.

Doing this whole if I don't know if y'all saw space, Yeah, doing this whole film, he was never walking.

It's a scene where we was walking.

They was pulling him on the trolley.

He couldn't walk.

They was pulling him on the Charley Mugs.

So I couldn't hang out with Mugs.

He was just he was in the room all the time.

Me and Sean was kind of hanging out man Sean Bradley.

Yeah, good dude, good dude.

What was it like though?

I mean, that's that that movie that experienced.

Oh no, no, it's my story.

So I had a fade, right, I had for everybody got a ball here.

Mugs just got a regular cut.

That's easy to do, and Pat, you know when you probably got to work a little bit, but work a little bit.

Pack out of what is that?

What is that hot?

What is that hot?

Time?

Pack out?

But I had that's that Steve Hardy before Steve Harut, I.

Had a blended fade right, and they had a tali in barber and I went there the first day.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's what he was.

I went there the first day.

I said, say, man, because they say you're gonna be here, and I said, can you do this?

Oh, no problem, no problem, No brother.

About five days he's later say man, getting a little bit, can you do this to fade it?

No problem, no problem, no problem.

About that tenth day when I went to get a cut, he started off with sizzles.

He did all sizzles.

I know I'm fucked up.

I know I'm fucked and he was trying to fade me with sizzles.

Brothers, and I'm like, i know I'm fucking He got me turned away from the mirror and it was like ten minutes lady talking about I'm done.

I turned around, had a bowl cut around my mother.

This was a bowl, bro.

I say, man, I ain't And I went to my trailer and Muggsy Muggs little fucker ass.

Muggsy cab it there be cause they was waiting on me on set and Muggsy carvey it there.

He said, say, man, be waiting on you, and he saw about heir this bust out laughing right.

I say, man, I ain't going it there, ain't going it up.

He said, all right, man.

He went back there told every last one of the motherfuckers that didn't cave it, I ain't never seen you by a drag like this before.

He was over the floor.

They was giving it to me and T T.

K Carter.

Anybody know him.

He's one of the actors, man, he was.

He was dudes on the he's one of the actors.

They had about five or six actors that are trying to teach us how to act in a short amount of time.

But this dude TK Carter looked at me, said come on, LJ and took me to a barbershop right down the street and.

In fifteen minutes, dude blending, yeah, brother, blend.

Fucked up for a minute, though, I.

Ain't never seen Mike like that.

I ain't never seen Mike and Charles barkle like that.

They was giving it to me all over my floor.

I get your ass out of here.

Let's welcome enough, go ahead, just shoot.

You'll come about because you've been a lifer.

Yeah, let's let's yeah.

I was baking some golf gear in the back.

We were the same size.

I ain't seen the ship.

Hey, listen, listen, man, you could have never told me it was like gonna be what it has become.

And you know, a family situation like that.

But uh, we started.

I was a dude that wasn't you know, I got picked eighteen eighteen pick.

Ain't about to really break the bank on O.

Shoot if you get a shoot it at all.

So, like you know what I'm saying, We was trying to figure out shit out.

He was the he was the third third pick.

Yeah, the highest high school pick up at that point.

You know, yes, sir, give that, give it up up.

You know KG was previously number five.

Black came in and rewrote that.

But like so we was trying to get a deal, and like our agent, I wasn't getting I was getting off of for just a pair of deals.

He was getting what what our agent felt like was lowball, and then we was at uh.

We went to Jordan campus flight school out of trying to borrow for the kids and ship that everybody would go to, and we had all of this and one ship they had just gave.

They was giving up so much ship bro it was crazy.

We had all this and one ship.

So we got through hooping.

The one day we icing down and.

Fuck, y'all got all this ship off four and we was just.

Like shit, like you know, and like we didn't know he had, you know, Jordan brand and that was all starting and ship and he was like, y'all get rid of that ship.

Man, Like y'all gonna be with me.

And were like okay, Like we didn't really know what that meant, but we like, we're gonna be with him.

So we was, yeah, you at least get into a club.

Then finally the next the next morning, our agent called us, was like, man, what y'all do we like what you're talking about?

He was like, man, they just sent me over a contract.

Y'all find the sign with Jordan's Wow, yeah you do you know what I'm saying?

Shut all that down I went from getting a pair of DEAs and some cash in fight right here.

So you know, once we've seen that, you know we was fool with After that you already couldn't tell you ship, But after that, it was all the way over.

It was a whole another game.

Now now we're Jordan's down.

Jordan, dudes, Bro, that was a stamp of appoof bro.

I was like, min mind went way different than that.

You had to get to the bobcat.

Was at that time, Jack get boxes every leap year.

Well, what it is is, at the time I got my joint deal, I was wearing proteges.

If y'all don't know what protege.

Is, hold on talking about out come out.

So Jack the first time, shout out Harrington.

By the way, I saw our brother the first time he bought protege in the game.

What happened?

We made a check off that bitch.

Let me start there, Okay, but it also almost the end of his career.

It definitely, it definitely ended my almost in my end of my It was some bullshit ass ship ship.

Stephan gave us a game.

This is one I knew he was a real friend.

I knew he was a real friend because supposed to that ship, I was like your son and A like stack, I need you to get in with I need you.

I'm like cool, you're my nigga.

The worst decisions ever made.

I end up breaking my toe and playing these ships right for three years, I think every quarter at every time out.

If you wanted to know my moves, you have to watch the tape.

Just the black marks was all on the court, so you can see everywhere I went right w as Shoes called prote.

Very first game though, he made a move he made I don't know if it was a left right or right to left, but he came out like the soul went that way.

I need another Paul.

This is like two minutes in the game.

Game just started.

I said, oh shit.

So then I get I get to I get traded to Charlotte with M Jed.

I'm playing in them shits.

I make a move, I come out.

I got my toe hanging out the mubles.

I come to the sideline.

I'm sending the ball boy to the back to get m saying like hold on, hold on, what's that?

What's that?

What is that?

Like no, no, no, no, bring him some J's brought me some jays.

He felt so bad for me.

Dog.

The next day, I had a John contract in my locker.

It was a charity case.

God damn.

Say, you know sometimes I take it with Upda.

Mike adopted Jeff.

Hey, my dudes, look at that poor little boy over there.

Let's get him twe You were someone that got to play with him in the summertime, but then against them on the biggest stage.

What was that effect like in getting to go head ahead against Mike?

Uh?

My first three years.

I came in the league in ninety six, so I went against the three the last three championships ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight.

I went one, one and eleven.

Damn yeah, we went one eleven.

I didn't play against him in the playoffs, but I was still kind of like a little fan too, because I came in at nineteen and I kind of grew up watching the Bulls.

So I was a little fan.

But I got my revenge when he came back to the Wizards.

Okay, it's never too late.

It's never too late.

Yeah, when he came back to the Wizards, that's when I got my day.

So these guys know, because obviously Darris and Q was with me in the summertime.

So got a phone call two thousand and one.

He was like, hey, man, I heard you guys in the gym.

I need y'all back with me.

I'm like, oh, they're like yes, Michael Jordan, y'all remember you can call people private back in the day, so he called me private.

It was okay.

He was like, yeah, I need you back in the gym with me.

So I called all the guys.

We all worked out together every day anyway, and he moved our run over to Hoops Gym over in the West Loop if you guys familiar with that.

MJ rented the whole gym out for the summer and we just started working out together.

We had to pretty much, and they know this.

We had to go off his routine.

We played every day at two o'clock, but you have to do your individual work before two o'clock and then you play pickup ball and some of the most legendary runs you ever wanted to be a part of.

If you lose, you may not get back on the court.

It was thirty thirty five pros.

You had everybody flying in.

I remember you guys mentioned Lebron James.

He was sixteen.

He came in to play with us.

He probably didn't play till like the tenth game.

I felt bad for him.

He flew out the way up to play.

But it's thick.

It's thirty pros in the gym.

That's already established.

When and then the twin took him to the fifty yard line.

What's the fifty yard line?

And dn twin took him to the fifty yard.

Man was a special party for somebody, y'all.

So it's the fifty yard line.

No tracks, Lebron James, and we ain't going in.

We ain't going that way.

We ain't going that way.

But now that was my experience with Mike, So I got the opportunity.

I'm not gonna little kill me with that.

I got a chance to be.

Around Mike every day man and see his work ethic, just like these guys like me and Dari's kid.

We got a chance to be around him and see how great he was and the work after he put in and then see him do it at thirty seven thirty eight to get back in the league with something special to see.

So those are memories I would always remember.

We hung out and they know, guys know that we hung out.

Move was four days, four or five days a week.

We were together every day.

Mike was so three.

Like he he rented the hoops out right then it was like a joint parking lot.

That was like, whatever the fuck it was.

He turned that ship into his steakhouse, this restaurant.

There wasn't nothing.

I remember that after the workouts go from the workout, they about to play called.

I ain't gambled with these motherfuckers.

I was smart, but I watched.

I saw, I watch, I've seen it.

I seen it.

But they out there like if you get you go over there, food, all this ship, wine, all that ship.

They there smoking cigar, kicking it for hours.

I'm like, I ain't with none of this ship.

I'm gone.

Yeah, it was.

It was one of the you know, one of the obviously greatest moments of my life.

To be around the greatest and to see how he worked and how he went about his preparation to get prepared, especially at that age.

So I just I learned a lot.

And they know how he was.

He was super competitive.

He wanted to win every day.

If you won't win, you weren't winning.

You didn't mean anything to him.

He didn't care about.

He don't like losers.

You gotta win.

So you just learned a lot in this competitive spirit and how he how he liked to do things.

So that was one of the most memorable times in my life.

To be able to play against Mike for two years and be around him and it's in his personal space and to see how he does it on an everyday basis was something special for me.

Up.

Not a lot of people say that we got to do.

Ship talking was crazy.

He like, what kind of ship talking was going on?

That was like talking?

And he say, crazy, ship you never want nothing?

Yeah, he told me I wasn't ship.

We was losing too.

And Charlotte, he came in practicing and had his weight with us.

Bro talk to us bad every time, man, everybody every championship with the average and everything.

We couldn't say nothing, and we were showing that he was badly making the playoffs and how we gonna get six Championshipsig.

Dude, what was that ship talking like back in the days?

It's Mike used to like.

I remember my first me first being around Mike.

I couldn't believe he cussed.

What I called my mama was like man, Mike cuss like us.

He was just cussing like us, like but ten Twine like Twine and super shit talking you know him in the gym.

It just kept the momentum in the gym and the atmosphere in the gym with Mike and Twine and different guys you had balls and there like Mike Finn.

He ain't used to say shit, but he used being there, bus and folks truly, you know what I'm saying.

So the ship talking used to be at an all time high.

Stack listen, let me tell you the dope is like Stack did some of the most ball of shit I thought at that point, was like some of the coldest shit ever, Like he was playing for the Pistons.

Then Stack, you know, country boy had a big ass boat.

He brought a boat over with his two rows voices on that bitch and stage like Rember stayed for like two months and had we.

Thought he they came up with my boat.

That's hard.

We started calling him up for a stack dollar, me and my homeboy stack dollar.

I say that, I said, that boat over this bitch Michigan that was so cold to me is hard.

That's hard.

Yeah, s O G.

The legend.

Andre Watt Marita quote here.

I consider Hi one of the best fighters of all time.

He had a sense of class about him, which which I absolutely loved.

He wasn't your typical boxer.

When you hear that from Michael Jordan's what does that make you think?

That's big?

Anything coming from Mike, that's Mike.

You know, Mike don't comment on everybody, so you know, and that's one of the reasons why he signed me, and Mike don't sign everybody, so it's it's big man.

I appreciate it, and I'm comfortable, man, with the legacy I left, you know, in the ring.

If they would have called me a couple of years before, they probably would have got the other guy they was looking for it, you know what I'm saying, right, Yeah, to turn up and all of that, They probably would have got that.

But you know, for me, man, God had brought me through a lot and I was still changing even when I turned I was still in the process of becoming you know what I'm saying.

And I had seen a lot of that stuff growing up, you know, And I don't knock nobody in how they get down, but for me, I was like, man, I'm a fierce competitor.

You're not gonna step on me.

And no promotion or nothing like that, no press conference.

But I'm gonna try to do this in a classic way.

You're gonna you're gonna feel my presence, but I'm gonna try to do this in a classic way, your way, the way I felt like I would do it, because at the end of the day, I knew my career was gonna be over it at a certain point in time, and I'm not trying to build this monster that I got.

To live with now and retire, you know what I'm saying.

I dropped my kids off at school.

You know, I'm able to still do business.

You're talking about it all the time, doing business and these projects and stuff like that.

I wanted to have a life outside of this sport, and sometimes the sport wants you to crash out and they don't care what happens.

To you after at all at all.

So I've been able to make a great living outside of box and being retired six years now, and.

I ain't took it through a punch in six six years.

That's what that was the goal.

That was Jordan.

Let's talk about or because I'm under Joyan too.

But Who's your Reggie was one of my reps mark raveling.

So for me that was growing up not being able to afford them and have been sponsored by Jordan.

That was the best feeling, one of the best ones I ever had in life.

Man, talk about it, getting them boxes, them elite.

Listen, you still get them?

Yes, yeah, I need to find your rep.

I got a boxing about four months.

Yeah.

Hey, Larry Miller, that's my brother.

Man.

Larry said, Man, you're a Jordan athlete for life.

I said, Mary, hold you do it.

Always all through it too.

Yeah, But man, like, I don't know what it is with me and shoes.

Always was a shoe person.

I look at your shoes first, and I look at everything else.

You can tell a lot some clean shoes you can tell a lot that.

I just I used to call my grandmother Grammy, what shoes you got on?

I just That's how it always was.

And my dad used to tell me, he said, this boy, ever get some money off a whole lot of shoes.

Dude, and do clean shoes.

It's just like looking at the one with opatow shoes on at he ain't done.

They beat up.

That's a lot but that but that's also the culture in the bay too, Like we'll have some some Jordan's on and some regular jeans and a white T shirt.

Yeah, long was your shoes clean?

Yeah?

You all right?

Yeah, it's the same way today.

How did the conversation and the deal come together for the Jordan thing?

And what was that first conversation with Mike?

Like did you almost pass out when you met him?

Man?

I was, I don't get in I don't really like get in all with a lot of people, and not from a disrespectful standpoint.

I just you know, it's like that's so and so that's cool.

But Mike is did is different?

Mike got an r about it, like he not even trying.

He just Mike.

Yeah.

So they just you know, they had that.

I was on the radar and it was a lot of you know, back and forth and they'll send me a couple of boxes and stuff like that, and it was a lot of talking.

But you know, it's a couple of years of that and then then we finally locked in a deal.

But Mike, man, he got he got all Man, he got he got it.

He walk in the room.

Walking right.

Now, everything on stop.

He don't want nothing fake around him.

Yeah, he don't want no fans.

He want everything family in genuine.

He don't want like he a normal dude.

Yeah.

He talked crazy and he competing to this day, whether he golfing, and you know he like to play cards and stuff.

Man, I got a lot of love from Mike Man, a lot of love.

When I was getting ready to do the documentary.

My brother, uh, Deontay Thoms, and we grew up together and he worked with small productions, and uh, he was like.

Bro, we gotta get Mike.

Like, Bro, I'm not calling Mike, not doing it.

So he was going back and forth for weeks, and I said, bro, I'm not calling Mike, but he said, bro, just calling You got to be able to do stuff like this.

If we're gonna make this doc, do what to do?

All right, But I'll call him.

So I called Larry Miller.

I said, Larry Man, look, I know Mike busy.

So I did that whole thing.

He said, let me let me make.

A phone calling and see what's up.

He called me right back, said Mike want you to call him?

Mad up?

So I called him.

Man.

We flew out to North Carolina, to the facility.

We knocked it out.

That was the easiest interview we did.

That's how Mike is.

I did us a last car.

We still ain't got to sit down with him, but that's how he.

Did car like Mike ms.

It's a little different.

But yeah, we ain't talk to him that.

We still wasn't on the interview, but he said he's with us.

This I called Mike kids though.

So we were all in like a boardroom at the facility.

He come in there scanning shoes.

You better not have nothing.

I was good, you know, I was good.

Mike.

One of my one of my guys had on some Adidas though.

He don't care if it's Guccia or whatever.

If it ain't your and it's not.

They take like people that's in that industry.

Oh it's serious.

Yeah, he take this.

He came in, what's something like everybody?

You know, everybody?

What's up with your man?

I'm like, what you mean?

I said, but I told you, bro not to wear them.

We can get it right, man, But yeah, yeah, your boy good.

But he got he ain't right.

He ain't right for that.

You make him take his shoes off almost damn near Bro.

We went to NASCAR.

How the NASCAR team they got them all, they won.

Jordan's about changing tires.

They take it here.

It's crazy taking here, take everybody though, that's dope.

Uh.

Any truth that he would text you had a fight sometimes or before fights.

He just send me voice memos all that.

Yeah, And.

I'm not comparing myself to Mike, but man, we got a lot of the same juice and mentality in terms of like it's win or die.

It ain't no win or lose, win or die period.

And people be like, hello, you come on, man, you're taking it too far.

No, That's how I felt like I used to think in training camp on them tough days, like, man, what Sunday night, late night gonna feel like after this fight Sunday morning when I wake up, I'm thinking about looking at my wife and my kids, and I remember the last loss I had and what I felt like.

You said at fourteen, though, Yeah, that's crazy.

John reveris from Baton Rouge, Louisiana Country.

We was in Lenxic, Kansas at the National Silver Gloves Nationals and we in opposite brackets fourteen fifteen year old division, so he was fifteen.

So he's a little bit older, and I'm out boxing people doing my thing, and it's three rings, so you kind of see like, man, you fighting.

But then the dude you might fight, he fighting in this ring right after.

So I'm watching him the whole week and he knocking dudes out, bang bang, they going out, man, And I remember seeing them around the hotel.

And I didn't tell.

Verse this, but that's the last time I ever got intimidated and allowed myself to get beat before I got in the ring a mental side, and I wasn't spooke like, oh my god, but I was like, well, he kind of strong, like I had a little hea about me.

It was a closed decision.

Of course, I thought I won.

I should have got the nod, but deep down I knew when I was going home, I'm on the Southwest flight, had a whole road on myself, curled up in the ball.

I remember that.

I remember looking at Verger's face and looking at my assistant trainer's face.

I remember being home that week and ah, man, you lost hunh.

I remember that, and I never wanted to feel that again.

And I made up my mind that day nobody will ever beat me before they get in the ring with me again.

They gonna have to earn it.

I let your appearance, and I let you being a little older, and the way you was taking care of your business getting.

Me never again, Never again.

Favorite J Eleven's for sure.

Really I love eleven God, I love elevens, But I also love the ones too.

He's the first person I heard.

I love the ones because I can dress them up and dress them.

But you got I'm gonna give you a chance.

What's your favorite?

And I love for to story.

Yeah, I love all the ones I couldn't afford when.

I was a kid.

Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Like I couldn't get there, the.

Threes and four us, that's the dope boys growing up, they had them on the block.

That's the ones we always wanted.

The ones I couldn't afford them, the ones I gravitate to the moment.

You ever consider using some retros and and and shape them in the boxing shoes?

Yeah, I would love to.

Man, Like we we took a couple of runs at it with the with the Jordan team man, and we weren't able to like get something that can go out.

But like I got that kind of mind, man, Like I think about like that kind of stuff all the time because I'm you know, I'm a creative type and it's a need for that kind of stuff in boxing.

Like GE's some shoes out there.

Most of them are not great.

You got a few that's like they okay, But we need something that's like a standard test of time.

It's like Rory's uh boxing boot, you know that he had with Jordan.

That thing lasted over a decade strong, and.

I might be putting something out like that one.

Come on, Mike, you hear him.

Welcome to the show, Josh around this time.

Uh, you know, Jordan is on his way up, and you guys to beat the bull Street three consecutive years, and you guys have something called the Jordan rule.

Yeah, talk to us about that.

Another thing you would have liked, Matt, because push him left.

That's that's your Jordan rule.

Rights, that's all I'm allowed to give away.

It's still top secret, no, but we're going to be there.

The deal is this, you push him left right.

If he catches the ball on the left side, push him left.

He's not going to pass it right.

Kobe is not the chucker.

Michael is the checker.

Kobe shots go in.

Michael kept shooting until they went in.

But Mike, Mike was deadly.

So when he caught the ball on the left elbow, push him left.

And Joe can do that all day because Joe two hundred and twenty pounds.

And when he picks the ball up, go back to your man because he's not going to pass it.

He's going to shoot it.

And when he comes in the middle, put him on his back.

So if he's on the right side, he goes left, that's when he turned his body this way and stick his tongue out.

And that's when I asked, well, right when he went down right there.

As soon as he goes left, as soon as he gets foot in the paint, foulo.

And it's just a regular foul.

Yeah, everybody gets.

But don't know tic tac files meaning for anybody out there, don't pull your hand back.

Foul through right foul him hit him and used to be allowed to do that, used to be allowed to you know, even if a guard was coming to the lane there was a big man, a big man turned and bumped into you and you hit the ground.

RAF wouldn't call that because yo, ash, you're not supposed to be in there but the big man, and he's just turning his body.

We also knew to go after Scottie.

So the other Jordan rule was make Scotty keep the ball with Scotty, make everybody else try to beat us.

And that said, when he caught the ball, all eyes was on Michael because he's not going to pass to your man.

You don't have to worry about him Magic Johnson, and by your ear, he ain't passing it.

So as soon as he puts the ball down, everybody come, everybody, every and they got you watching on film.

They would start, hey, what's the rule?

When he comes, everybody comes.

He's not passing it to your man.

And if you watch, Michael would put the ball every which way, not to give it to one of his one of his team.

That's it.

You got a chance to play with him later.

Did you guys ever discuss what it was about the reasoning?

Because I mean he openly said, I mean that got him better.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Have you guys ever discussed being teammates at one point?

Yeah?

When I when I they didn't have to ask him.

But when I came on to the team, he said, you wear a Nike, right, So I said, yes, sir, got it.

He said, what's side?

You were so ad fifteen?

He's like, all right, that's what's up.

That's up, just making sure you ain't, you know, doing no craziness over there.

The next day I came in.

My whole locker was full of Alonzo morning sneakers because Elonzo used to get them first, and they were red and white, and.

Then I got him.

I was like, good looking.

He said, yeah, yeah, you know.

That was that.

And he would always ask us questions.

He would ask Dennis questions with Dennis and have answers.

Answers he would ask Bood and.

He said, man, when we would come in and like I said, if we knew that we was in his head, we would have never lost.

We didn't know how intense or how much we were in his head.

I remember we were playing and I go in and I see him myself.

After the game.

He goes, yeah, yeah, you after the game, I got the Ferrari.

You're gonna show you.

I can't wait.

We beat him.

I come out and said, what's up, man, get away from me, what happened?

Get away from me?

I was like, damn, he's sensitive.

Like, Hey, where I'm gonna eat tonight?

Like I said, I was intense when those numbers was up.

I would very very focused.

But when we would talk, he would ask us.

He would ask us, did we try to hurt him?

We were like, Nah, if you went left, we hit you.

We went left in the middle, you got we stopped you in the paint.

Because he can ignite a whole nation by dunking on somebody.

And you can see sometime he would go and we would all come and then he would try to get a shot off and hit the floor.

We're not catching him, step over him and keep running.

And we knew, we knew that his teammates looked to him for everything, everything, and we would punk everybody.

Welcome to the show, Muggsy Bows.

You got a chance to play against CMJ in college.

You guys are in the league at the same time, you start to see him build his legends.

Uh, any great memorable matchups or stories against MJ.

You could share, Well, you know MJ he always liked like, well, I will say, you always like to fuck with me.

You know you know that, you know he just that's just on one another when we come in contact.

I mean even off the court to this to this day, you know, walking around, he'll put his hand up high, trying, you know, for me to give him a high five, and I'll put my hand down low and then you come.

Down and give me a low five.

So it's just it's just not compete.

I mean, compete against one another.

But but but am man, you know you always tell you especially with me and playing the game.

You know, Lord, it was.

Some stuff that's going on in the internet where they say that he called me a midget, which is not true, and they felt like he had some kind of impact, which is not true.

He always called me short, little fella.

Yeah you need law ass.

He always call me law ass and that short stuff.

So we playing against them.

Of course, he got the ball.

He just came back from from retirement.

He got the ball up in there, and I'm at him.

I'm playing on the baseline.

One on one.

Of course, everybody and my team know that I don't like help.

Don't come and help me.

I don't care any where they guys don't come out because yeah, no, no back and try to back me down because guys ain't used to playing their back to the backs anyway.

But anyway, this particular moment, and I guess it became infamous because he got as a card that's out where he holding the ball up, and I'm looking right at him and I'm talking and I'm talking ship to him.

I'm telling him, come on, what you're gonna do.

And then all of a sudden he start to try to back me in, and try to back me in, and try to back me in, and then all of a sudden he tried to turn around shoot his little jumper.

I smacked it down.

But they call illegal defense on somebody because they wasn't that they was on to cross the line.

But I always fucking with that.

Tell him, look, you know, you know there was a steal on you.

You know.

You know that ball, that ball defender.

I'm gonna make you think about that when you got that ball in your hand.

The one and only Charles Barkley m v P that season but lost in the finals.

We recently talked to Magic about, you know, his back and forth with Isaiah and Isaiah and MJ's beef or whatever that may be.

You and MJ were really close and haven't spoke in some time.

Is there is there light at the end of the tunne with that.

Do you feel like you guys can mind that?

That would be on his end, Matt.

He was my best friend at the time, and I love the guy and I missed the guy, but you know, I gotta do my job.

What I said was, I said, first of all, I don't think it's fair for me to critique other gms and coaches.

And have a double time.

That goes back to the skill Bailest, like you can tell the guys he like and guys he just like.

I think I'm fair to everybody.

What I said about Michael, I said, I don't know if he's ever going to be successful because of the people around him.

I think he hires too many of his friends.

And because your friends don't ever tell you no.

The hardest thing about being famous is because you're paying all the bills, they're on your private jet, they're not gonna tell you when you're doing something wrong.

And I said that.

I didn't because he was struggling as a general manager a running the team.

And I said, I don't know.

If he's ever going to be successful because the people around him are never going to tell him no.

And like, yeah, don't draft that dude.

We need to trade that dude.

Blah blah blah, and he went ballistic and he called me and that's the last thing I heard was motherfucker, fuck you.

You're supposed to be my boy and blah blah.

And I said, man, man, I got to do my job.

And we haven't spoken since that night, and that was probably close to ten years ago.

But I kind of agree with that, because you know, they traded me after I brought to the playoffs for the first time.

Yeah, they do make some bad decisions over there.

Welcome to the show, Barry Bonds.

Than you were you close to any NBA players of your time.

Jordan and I kind of came up together.

We were in Chicago when Jordan first came in the league.

We used to hang out in Chicago all the time when he was at the Bulls and stuff.

And I don't just tell us some shit like that.

Two of the.

Great I tell you, like, Michael Jordan was before he even became the most famous person ever him tied and we were in Chicago and he was just I mean, he's only two years older than I am, you know, And we went out to just to grab a bite to eat, and I ain't never seen a line of people just that wanted to just talk to this guy.

And I was just coming up too, so I was rookie, so nobody knew who I was, you know.

It was just Bobbie Bond's son, nobody at the time.

And I thought I was pretty big at the time because I made it.

But Michael had all these people, and he had they had a couple of security guys there watching.

Michael was so nice.

He was just signing auto grass and We're trying to grab something to eat, and I'm over here going, I'm Barry Hello.

You know what it's like to have somebody that good, you know what I mean.

And for that one moment, I'm.

Like, I want to be like Mike one day, you know, when you really see it from the very beginning.

But he was so he was already.

Large before k became larger than anything.

And I will always remember that he was.

He was always like, come on, be let's go, and you know, and it was good because we've we've always been like really, you know, good friends, and even at a distance, you know now that you know his profession's gone to where it's gone, and even got distance, we even if we talk and we haven't talked in a long time, like we talked to things like last year.

We had a conversation not too long ago.

And it always seems like we've never missed a beat.

And that's that's what's really good about.

Yeah, I got a question, I mean with We talked to Kobe about Mike, and Kobe said every aspect dealing with Mike was competitive and maybe that's because that was a young guy trying to catch him?

Was everything with you guys?

Was it more just a genuine conversation friendship or was there some competitiveness even in the conversation.

We played two different fields, so two different.

Well he tried, he tried to come to your field though, Well.

That was happening.

I mean, I love Mike, but no, that wasn't gone.

Do you ever actual for advice on baseball?

No, I got never asked him advice and bats I knew he was that good and you know, but uh, we always joked around with you.

I mean, we had always a great respect for each other.

I think Michael's I saw Michael the same thing he probably saw me that this I Q a vision of you know, the type of players.

We were.

Welcome Joe Johnson to the show.

What was your welcome to the NBA moment?

My welcome to the NBA moment was playing against Uh was playing against so my rookie year.

Was MJ's first year back in the NBA with the Wizards.

Yeah, we played against them fourth game of the season.

I was starting every Ed Williams getting hurt the second game of the season, small four, so they start me.

Uh, and I got a guard MJ.

Paul Piers like, man, I'm gonna get him in the fourth quarter.

I need you to give him the first three.

Look.

Look, I'm like, all right, all right bet so uh.

Man, we got out there first off, touring and MJ talking stuff through each other on the tip, Like you know what I'm saying.

So m J.

Taylor, Paul, I gotta come all the way back to the NBA just to just to get a pickup game with you, just to get a run with you.

So hey, all going back and forth the whole game.

But I'm like, man, y'all got a chill, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm the one got to guard this man.

But uh, it was.

It was a fun moment.

Man.

I embraced the challenge and I had so much fun.

But I got so many pictures and memories from that moment, and even if like it was crazy, it was on TNT like I'll never forget it.

What did he do?

That game?

What did MJ do?

He finished with like thirty thirty two?

What you he ended up getting?

I had sixteen to ten?

Oh yeah, yeah, silent, silent, silent, solid playing which one in prime?

That's solid?

Yeah, I'm surprised you got I'm surprised you got enough looks to get sixteen with them too, Right, Rip Hamilton, Welcome to the show Man.

Make your mark.

You feel like you've arrived your second year, your third year, MJ comes back.

Tell me about him coming back first and foremost, and then the second part of the questions is do you feel like that's stunned where you obviously your process and your growth at the time.

Oh man, MJ.

Man, that was awesome for my career.

You know, I always used to hear a lot of people talk about, Okay, MJ coming back to a young, young, a young team, and that's going to stun a lot of their guards, you know, growth, because at the time, you know, it was me Leron prophet and was a guy Courtney Alexander who was man.

He was a problem too.

He was a guy that played on the wing with me.

That you know, we both that during that second half of the year in Washington after my second year, we both averaged you know, close to thirty points a game.

You know, it was balling.

But when MJ came man, it was it was the goat man.

That's that's that's gold status man as a two guard coming up and Mike, you know, being your idol growing up, and now you got an opportunity to lock it up with him and and and learn and get as much information off of him as possible.

Because even my second year, he used to come down and practice with us all the time, right, but he didn't you know, every now and then he had come in and you know, work out with It's kind of similar what he did with y'all when you was on.

The Bodcap Shack.

You know, he come down and work out with us, and me and Proft used to play with him all the time, and we used to talk trash to MJ all the time.

But it was only certain things that I would say and you know Prof would sometimes you know, say a little bit of extra stuff that.

I would, I would and go there.

And I remember one time we were playing in practice right and Prop you know, might have hit a shot on MJ.

And he was like running.

Down court, Yeah, you can't guard me with them old ass knees.

And I'm like, oh, oh stop.

Time out, time out.

I was like, oh nah.

You you don't.

You don't.

You don't say that to the go MJ was heated.

I mean he was heated to the point that when I went to my exit meeting, uh, because you know he was he was the president at the time.

I went into my exit meeting.

He was like, okay, Rip, you know your man, your buddy, you know what I'm saying.

Because he ended up.

Training proft that that that he was like, oh your man, he was like, oh yeah, he ain't gonna he out.

Of here, he said, But you won't be there by you.

You gonna be there by yourself, you know what I'm saying.

And you ain't gonna have your buddy to to co sign and.

You know you're gonna be on the island by yourself.

I like, look, I was like, I.

Don't want no problems, bro, I don't want no problems at all.

I'm your teammate, man, But.

When I know the.

Feeling, I know the feeling that it.

Right, you gotta be careful, you gotta be careful.

But when MJ came, man, I just thought it was a blessing and and uh for for me as a basketball player, you know, because I was able to learn so much off of him.

Uh, you know, it took it took my game to a whole new other level, especially even playing with him, because you got to remember, when you're playing with Michael Jordan, all the focus is going to be on Michael Jordan.

I mean, traveling with MJ is like traveling with the Beatles back in the day, right, So when when playing with him, the one thing that I learned with playing with Mike was remember, you know, back in the day, they used to call it floppy, right, you know, when two guys come down and the two beats come down and we run them off screens.

So I was like, man, screw my bigs, I'm just gonna run off MJ.

Why because every time I run off MJ, you know, I'm saying, my man gonna go to him, and his man ain't gonna right.

So I would get wide open every time.

And MJ would come to me after the game and be like, hey, Rip, I see what you're doing out there.

I see I.

See what you're doing out there.

I'm like, yeah, what am I?

What am I?

What am I supposed to do?

Man?

Like shit you the goat?

Like you know.

So he was he was very He was very helpful for for my career when when I was in Washington.

And another crazy story is that we just talked about Alan Houston.

Right, So Alan Houston was.

Killing me, like like I said, he killed me in my first two years, right, So when MJ came third year, now, I feel like I'm growing up.

You know what I mean.

I grew some hair on my chest, like I've been through the war and the battles a little bit, so, you know, and I got big bro, like I got the bully in the room, right, you know, I'm a little bit more confident.

So we're playing against New York.

We're playing against New York in Washington, and first half I go out and I give Alan Houston thirty in the first half, right, So like like I'm geeked.

I'm like, Okay, all the times this motherfuckers been killing me and getting me in foul trouble.

I'm in I'm in his ass right now, right, you know what I mean.

So we were in that halftime, you know, we talking, coach talks does a speech.

MJ come up to me.

He was like, hey, man, hey, young fella, you know you.

Had a great half.

You know, but Big Bro won't take over the second half, so don't worry about it.

I got you.

Bro won't take over second half.

Right at the end of the game, man, And that second half, I only had two shots in the second half, I had thirty.

I think I might have ended with like thirty two.

You know what I'm saying.

I was like I was at the end of the game.

I was like, damn, this was my perfect opportunity to kill this dude.

This dude killed me my first two years.

Like you know what I'm saying.

Now, I got you on my side.

He was like, hey, man, don't worry about it.

Man, you'll get another opportunity at that.

But as a young kid, you don't think that you're gonna get another opportunity.

That was your time talking moment.

But but big Bros, Like he tapped me on the shoulder and say, hey.

Man, you did enough.

I was like, in my mind, I was like.

Hell nah, but he was like, you know that second half he took over.

He might have scored twenty five or twenty six and the second half and we end up winning the game.

But that that story always sticks to me because that was my opportunity to go out and get fifty.

That's funny as hell, especially on someone that been lighting your ass.

Up, Light my ass up.

Yes, welcome this show Man T two thousand and one.

You signed with the Wizards.

What was it like playing with a part of Yo MJ.

I didn't care.

He was ninety yeah, like come on, man, like get a chance to play with m Man.

It was like it was a blessing, you know, like I said, my career has been blessed.

Like I said it just when I first song, well when he first called, initially because he was part of the front office and I heard his voice, I'm like, man, what are you serious?

Like MJ calling me?

Like called and once you come in with the Wizards whatever, he said, I'm thinking about coming back.

You know, we didn't discuss it, you know, didn't he didn't go public for a while.

But then just when I first met him just in Awe.

Man like just having a chance to you know, see Black Jesus in person, like talk to him, be his teammate, like I was in Awe and my first you're playing with him, and I just didn't I didn't know what to do, like you know what I'm saying, Like you know, throwing to him every time and just go staying or he's like no play like but you just get so messed by who he is.

About forty he it was forty heah was twenty points a game at the age of forty on one leg because his knee was messed up.

And he played eighty two games at the age of forty on one leg and play all eighty two games.

So I mean, I just tell you who he is.

Crazy eighty two games.

That's crazy.

Welcome to the show, Zach Lavine.

You're playing a legendary position for a historical franchise.

You're playing the two guard for the Chicago Bulls.

Have you got a chance to ever meet Mike or talk to Mike about what you got going on right now?

And you playing position?

He he he made very famous over there.

Yeah, I met I met him.

I haven't talked to him, you know, in alone.

I met him, actually my rookie year, I did a workout for Charlotte, and uh, he walked in like early into the workout, and you know, all of us are hyped, you know, especially because he's in there, so now you're trying to show out and went over and shook his hand.

His hand was so goddamn big he grabbed my four arm.

So you know, that's when I met him.

But you know, it's it's it's crazy, man, especially the stats that you see and you hear, And there was one that was crazy that came out this this month because I think I'm averaging thirty this month and I'm.

Tied for the thirty first best month.

Crazy, right, you know, saying it is mind body, how good this motherfucker was, Like the stats he has, it's just like wow, that's you know, I couldn't I couldn't imagine.

You know, we always wish we could have played against him.

Crazy, just like this.

That was a bad motherfucker man.

Welcome him to the family.

To Jarosh Smith, you recently got a chance to play thirty six with MJ.

First of all, how did that happen?

And then how did they.

Go man So one of my one of my guys is you know black man named So.

He from Jersey.

He's an amazing painter.

Actually he got a lot of gold pieces.

But he he ended up hooking me up with a guy named David Storch out of He's from Chicago.

Just moved down here to North Palm Beach and him MJ's road tight.

It went back, you know, back in the Chicago days, right close, and I ended up playing We played thirty six with Mike and it was like, I don't know, it was.

It was everything that you thought it was gonna be.

But like.

To him actually be around Mike and he talking shit like that shit was like Dann like he he be going there when I tell you he talking ship, He talking ship bro.

And he nice though.

He is he nice?

Nice?

Nice?

I want to know he nice.

His short game is like one of the pros.

He I'm watching this, I'm watching ship he's doing.

I'm like, hey, yo.

Like making like making ship like I'm oh my god, and I'm lucky lucky for me.

We we kept up beat, like you know what I'm saying.

So, but the people he betten with in the group, they like these these like some some mean buy pots.

I'm yo if I not for no golf, bro, Nah, I sain't that, but sure though, but it was dope man, because like again, I like, I don't know, I just seen a global Mike man like he you see him when he and his element with being competitive and everything and he you know, it's just like and I thought about when I first seen him.

I thought about the I thought about something Ai said, like, you know, he really got.

On Jordan's like what else he's going ahead?

Like said like this was wild.

Bro, let's welcome to the show.

Magic Johnson, what's your take on the back and forth with Isaia and Mike right now?

I don't like it right I think they should be done with that.

Listen, we played.

When we played, we all had to dislike each other to win a championship.

We all had to do what we had to do.

But now, uh, what Michael is doing, Uh is incredible to be an owner in the NBA.

To his shoe is still number one.

I mean you can.

Put all those guys shoes sales together.

They can't even mess with Michael Jordan's ship and so and then Isaiah is a businessman himself.

Exactly all the things that he's doing.

So why why.

Are we still living in the past.

Yes, I think only magic can fix that ship.

We're definitely gonna try, man, because they should be look.

Up to both of them.

We look up to both of them.

Yeah, and they're my boys, right right, So I guess I'm gonna have to be the one to bring.

Them together culture, because you want, we want to see Zeke and Mike somewhere having to drink together, man.

For the culture.

There you there, you go there, yeah, h.

Mm hmmm mm hmmm.

K