Hey, this is a special gun Talk Nation.

I recently went up to New Hampshire and visited Sigsur and actually got to sit down with six hour CEO ron Cohen and also Tom Taylor, who ran the sales and marketing efforts for the last decade or so.

These are two of the giants that made sig Sour into what it is today.

I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is gun Talk Nation.

This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Hodgden, Aero, Precision Vortex Optics, Ruger range Ready and sts Imports.

Ron Cohen, CEO of Sigur, Good to talk to you, same here.

Nice talking to you.

Good to talk to you.

So thanks for having us up here.

We're at the still let's say it's still new sig a couple of years.

What was the what was the thought process behind this?

Because you had to say academy, but it just keeps growing.

We wanted to share the culture of sig with the world and I'm happy to say that this year one hundred and fifty thousand people will come here to see this place, to see our products, our history, our people.

It's the best showcase over our brand and heritage.

That we could have done.

We're very proud of this place.

It's fantastic, it's top notch.

But I mean everything you guys do is that way.

There's been a lot of change in growth that I've seen in sig over the past call it fifteen years.

But how do you you've been here for so much of that.

Did you see this vision that what we're seeing today?

Or how did this come about?

You know, people ask me, I came here twenty years ago, what was the big strategy?

And there's no way that in two thousand and four I envisioned today.

But I think what.

Is common to those years, or the common denominator, was always pretty much the same.

Great people.

Give them room to dream, to try to execute.

He who dares wins not being afraid to fail.

It's not about the winning, it's about not being afraid to fail, and the belief that what we are here to do is not just deal with this year, but have the desire to do something that may take you some years to get there, right and maybe one of them the most unique examples of that is the next gen A weapons system, where we started that road in twenty seventeen, eighteen seven years ago.

I mean how many companies are willing to bet the farm with four hundred engineers and something that you may lose, right, maybe there's something wrong with us, but we were willing to do it.

People will say, well, yeah, SIG has all those military contracts and they can do this and that.

That's a great, great point, ron.

I mean, you spend a lot of time and money and resources to try to get the military contracts and a lot of companies don't get them.

Yeah, the chance of winning is small.

We were competing with the titans of the industry for more over the world.

Chance of winning was almost insignificant.

But SIG believes in a mission.

SIG as a culture of innovation that is kind of the essence of who we are.

You bring into it dramatic passion and people that come from military law enforcement or the shooting industry, people that love to shoot, to compete.

You've got a unique blend of skill sets.

Well, I saw it last night.

We were we were kind of the welcome event for this and you had I don't know, one hundred two hundred people in the room, and it seems like the loudest cheers were coming from SIG employees.

I mean, there's a real culture of everyone's in on this, right.

It seems like it.

If you go to their homes and check how many shirts say sigir in their closet, you'd be shocked.

Yeah, I think that's something.

We're all proud of that when we go home, we take off our clothes and wear our home attire.

It's usually a sick shirt.

Well, how do you achieve that?

I mean, everyone talks about you as a leader.

I've heard it several times yesterday today, how do you achieve that?

I'm not sure that I know.

I don't know.

I think I love to be with great people.

I am not afraid to fail or let others fail.

And I always grew up in the team, and I know that nobody wins on his own.

So it's just exciting to be part of this energy.

And when you have the top echelon of the company that is like that, then guess who they hire.

They hire people that are like them, diverse in their background and who they are, but with a common denominator of passion and desire to change the world.

Mentioned a couple of times not being afraid to fail, which means when you are going to have some failures along the road, right, and maybe they're not all failers that they lead to something else.

But do you have any memorable or a favorite failure in trying things that maybe didn't work out, but you know you're still good.

I don't know how much time we have.

I think there's more failures than victories in life.

But I think the coolest part about it is that when we fail, it doesn't seem like the cultures.

Who's gonna get his head chopped?

There's no sense of he failed, that's point of finger at him and he'll be fired.

Nobody gets fired because he failed.

So the failures are numerous in every.

Category of the business, and it just when you have people and you are willing to take the world on.

Think about it.

We're in optics, in ammunition, in handguns and rifles, suppressor, in.

Training, in air gun.

We take a lot of risk and everything we do and everything is organically done.

So think when you start into something new, you're gonna fail more than you're gonna succeed.

Sure, So the intach they say they have that phrase fail fast.

Let's try things, you know, and failure is not necessarily a negative.

There's a guy in our company that I like to laugh at him.

He created the new generation of suppressors without the blowback into your face.

And this guy, I think, for three years, failed every week or two when I go to sit with the engineers.

This didn't work.

No, well, this is not working.

And I used to call him number seventy four because there was certain time that it felt like it's seventy four failures.

Right.

So his answer to me was, Thomas Setison took a thousand times to succeed.

I said, Chris, I don't have a thousand times for you to fail.

Could you succeed in the next year or two?

Right?

And he was comfortable with failing and laughing about it.

So I think that says a lot about the culture of the company.

For sure.

Well, it's gotten us to some really innovative products, the cross through sixty five now the fuse.

So many areas that you guys have gone into.

I mean, yeah, air guns, people don't remember that, or some people may not, but it's still a really cool area and optics and suppressors for the consumers out there.

I mean, you guys are doing really neat things in the military.

The next gen weapons system is there.

Where do we head from here for consumers and you know, gun enthusiasts.

First of all, what we do in the military connects to the civilian life in vice versa.

I don't see a barrier between them.

Yes, maybe US civilians are not going to shoot machine guns, but aid the culture of perfection bleeds over from the military into the consumer.

As far as changing the consumer world, I think the three sixty five in the last decade or two was the biggest thing in the consumer market CCW market in twenty eighteen when we brought.

It, it changed the world.

The fuse that you saw today yesterday.

I think it's going to.

Be one more step in that radical change of blending between big guns, small guns, shootability performance.

So we are committed to the consumer market in many ways.

Another great example of that is the bleed over the ammunition.

Ammunition hasn't changed in your lifetime, your father, your grandfather, and so on and so on since eighteen forty.

No radical change in ammunition.

Brass primer projectile.

We changed it this year.

This year the US Army adapted SEG ammunition that takes away the pressure limitation in a case and gives you so much more energy and lethality.

Now you're saying that's a military thing, that's not true.

That's also for us consumers.

Think of the cross rifle, think of the spear for consumers, and think of what it starts.

We can hybridize and create high pressure in every type of round that's out there.

It changes what we think is possible in the ballistics.

Got into this field thirty years ago.

I'd read Guns and Animal about some projectile that increased twenty foot per second, and the guy gets a noble price.

Right, we are doing it today with five hundred foot second.

That is a revolution, not an evolution, and that came from research and development in the military side, where all is consumer is gonna enjoy it absolutely.

Do you have a favorite category of products or a favorite product that you personally like to shoot or your or maybe you know you're kind of a design and engineer minded kind of guys, or one that you really like personally.

You got to ask me that in different times.

I have different answers for that.

I love all my children.

Yeah, the four children that I have.

You love the one that.

Needs you the most today or the one that you're sweating off the most about.

So I think I think in a civilian setting, the three sixty five is it's just the most exciting in its range from a very very small gun to literally a full sized gun that still looks small, the little gun, the little gun that's a big gun, and I'm not sure how to call it anymore.

It's a fews of disciplines of what you expect a gun to do.

So that's on one side.

On the military.

Side, I am in love with machine guns and I think are fifty will it evolutionize the next thirty forty years of soldiers because of the ammunition and because of how this gun was designed for a soldier, for a gunny sergeant, And I couldn't be.

More excited with what this gun will do in the next decade.

Yeah, let's go there for a second.

I mean what we saw today, this next gen weapons system, what's it called.

There's diminution, the hybrid remnition.

You have the spear or the seven, and you have the end two fifty to machine gun.

I mean, it's kind of interesting because we're you guys mentioned it out there on the range, making soldiers not only more effective, but keeping them safer.

And I always kind of like to half jokingly refer to it as an unfair advantage.

I want every unfair advantage for our soldiers as possible.

I mean, you guys are doing that.

The US Army assured the period that they wanted to change the status school and they wanted to give our soldiers an advantage.

I think the end.

Result that Sig brought to the table is exactly what the doctor asked for.

And we're so proud.

To be part of that revolution that would make our soldiers dramatically more capable than their enemies.

So we couldn't be more proud, especially with the background of about a third of our people that is from that background.

And people might argue with me on this, but I think that that can actually lead to more peace.

You get peace from strength.

I think a lot of smart people said that before us.

So, yeah, when you are strong, people don't want to fight you, and I think will help make us stronger with even something that's just for infantry, it's not n F thirty five.

I think what we're doing is bringing revolution to infantry that did not have a revolution for the last fifty sixty years.

Awesome, Ron, thanks for talking with us.

It's a pleasure you.

Silencer Central is making it easy to buy a silencer, so head over to Silencerscentral dot com and get your silencer.

One of the ones that I've been enjoying is the Banish forty six and this is a bigger silencer.

It's made for those bigger calibers forty five seventy great for lever guns.

Also is actually able to handle a three thirty eight Lapua.

This is a big guy, but it also gives you sound reduction of up to thirty four decibels.

Check it out the Banish forty six over at Silencerscentral dot com.

SDS Imports is bringing in all kinds of great guns overseas.

The Mac is one of their brands Military Armament Corporation, and one of the guns that's been making big waves is the MAC nineteen eleven double stack nine millimeter.

This is a double stack gun with all the features you'd want.

A rail, a skeletonized trigger, big magwell, and it holds lots of ammo obviously, and they're known for being fairly affordable, so go check them out over at sdsimports dot com.

Realistic Advantage has been known for making quality barrels for many years now, and probably you think of them as ar barrel manufacturers, and they do that, and they do a good job at it, but they also are making pistol barrels now and this is one of the easiest things you can do to upgrade your gun.

They have them for glocks, they have them for SIGs, but a glock seventeen barrel top tier upgrades high precision rifling for improved accuracy, durable materials for reliability, design for easy installation.

They come in various links and finishes.

You can customize your glock ideal for competitive or tactical use.

Go check them out at Ballistic Advantage.

Dot Com.

Vortex Optics makes probably optics for about everything you can think of.

But if you're listening to this show, you're gonna like the Defender XL micro red dot.

Now, the Defender XL a lot of these micro red dots XL meaning bigger, so micro a bigger one.

Great for competition, target to target, stage to stage, design for toughness, bead and accuracy.

But because it's a larger red dot, you could actually run this on a shotgun or an ar, so it gives you a lot of different options on ways to run this optic and is high quality.

Vortex.

They've got their limited their lifetime warranty.

If you ever have a problem, I shouldn't say limited, there's no limitation to it.

You go check go check them out.

Vortexoptics dot com.

Range Ready Studios is our training division and we've released a new schedule of classes.

Some of the ones coming up that you ought to take a look at Basic Pistol Operator.

So this is a basic pistol course.

It's one day.

It's a great starter, but if you want to add on the next two days you have our Pistol one course, which we call Semi Auto Pistol Operator one.

And then there's a really cool one coming up in October which hands to Guns with Max Michelle and Steve Tarani.

And you can see the whole class lineup at range Ready Studios dot com.

Go sign up for a class.

I promise you will not regret it.

Ruger had the Ruger American Rifle and now they have the Gen two, the Gent two.

Boy, this thing they actually when they came out with it, I know the guys at Ruger said, did we make it too nice?

It's a really nice gun.

Professionally applied Sarah Coo codin and the barrel muzzle break, receiver, bolt handle, durable, easy to maintain finish.

The new Gen two American stock allows for adjustable length of pull and comb heights.

You can customize the fit of the gun to you and tu depending on whatever scope you're running.

It also has a splatter finished stock which gives you a little extra grip without being too sharp or abrasive.

They have the new Ruger American Gen two rifle in a lot of different configurations and calibers and a lot of modern features in this gun.

Go check it out over at Ruger dot com.

And now here's my talk with Tom Taylor.

All right, Tom, Tom Taylor six hour dude, I'm not I don't even know what you do here anymore because you started out.

I think you start a kind of VP of sales and marketing or somewhere in.

That role and that, But I don't know either so to us.

So well, they say in that movie, what would you say you do here?

Yeah, that was when I came to I have Chief Marketing Officer and executive VP of commercial sales.

We have four sales channels with Defense Law Enforcement International, and I was over commercial sales but for Marketing.

I was over the company, so just recently we decided to make it change based on the color of my hair and and just trying to take a little bit different role for the company.

Not don't want to go anywhere.

Still very involved in a lot of different things.

But uh, you know, the new title is Executive vice President Global Brand Development, whatever the heck that means, but.

What it really means.

And other duties assigned and other and other special projects and things like that.

But no, I mean, as you know, Robbie Johnson has been named CMO, and Robbie, you know, we had been talking to some people from out this industry about potentially come in to work with me for a couple of years to evolve to potentially the CMO position.

And you know, when you look at the CMO universe, it's this big, and then you say the word guns and it becomes this big.

And then you start talking to those people and you say, you've got to be the face of SIG.

You've got to you've got to be an advocate of the second minute, you've got to be trusted by the industry, and you've got to do all these things.

And we just begin to get a little frustrated that we weren't finding the right the right people, and so it's kind of like the obvious thing right before our eyes.

You know.

Robbie Johnson, we basically came here about the same time.

I think he was maybe three months before me.

He was in the Defense team, a product team.

Then he was elevated to VP over the Defense UH Product Management team, and then became senior vice president over Defense and Commercial product development.

But the biggest thing about Robbie is he's you know, he's he's a soldier, which fits in really good here, high level soldiers, you know, a ranger sniper.

We remark some shipping and all the great things he did there.

He's been fifteen years in the industry, and Robbie is a good leader, and Robbie is a good pragmatist.

To me, he's a lot of things that while he's not a classic marketing guy like we were looking for, you know, I don't know, the VP of marketing over crust Toothpasters, right, It was just not We just didn't see that as.

Being the right fit here.

And so so the plan is that Robbie will move into that role and I will do everything I can to support him.

We also are going to be focusing more on international marketing, just we have the US was our first mountain to climb the fuel and you've heard Ron talk about that, climbing the mountains.

So we want to do a little more global marketing tense to the title.

And then other special projects things like that industry advocacy, you know, all the things to protecting the Second Amendment, just being involved in promoting the industry and all the things that we do here.

So yeah, so that's the that's the plan.

Well, I mean that kind of talking about Robbie and some of the other people that we've met in the last couple of days, Sick has Yes.

Well, one, you guys have a lot of people who are hardcore gun enthusiasts.

But also my impression is you just have people who are ride or die for the brand.

I mean, it seems like the people here, it's not just like I work at a gun company, who cares.

I mean, they're like SIG stickers on their cars and they're wearing the SIG clothing and all that.

Oh it's you know, I've been here ten years now, and you know, five years at Mosburg and five years at Smith and Wesson, and so, you know, I kind of learned to navigate the industry a little bit.

But coming here and working for Ron Cohen, if you're not passionate about what you do here, it's really hard to survive because there's if you come here and you just treat this like a job and you're around Ron, or if you're around the disciples of Ron, if you will around the factory and key jobs or whatever, it's just it's really hard to be successful here.

And an interesting you know, some of the stats you've heard about a third of our employer veterans or law enforcement, you know, one out of every nine employer as an engineer and all those things.

But another cool statistic is in our Sick Experience Center, which is a very very large gun store, essentially our flagship store.

It's got a range, it's got a museum, it's got a conference center that people can go to, the.

Public can go to.

It's if if you haven't been, if you want to see one of the coolest gun store, gun museum range experiences on the planet.

I'm here in New Hampshire and VISITSIG Experience Center.

It's amazing, but you know, it's about twenty or twenty five minutes from here.

You've been there a number of times this week already.

Our number one customer over there is our employees, really, and so it's one of the largest.

By expensive to work there.

Yes, we pay people and then we take their money back.

They do get a nice discount.

But but I mean, the point is is like they're advocates, they're shooters, they're hunters, they're you know, they're they're ingrained in what they do.

So are there people here that aren't involved in that and they come here They still do a fine job, of course there are.

But the fact that it's one of the large just individual gun retailers in the country and more than half our sales are from our employees, so just kind of gives you the culture here.

And then the everybody from the everyday veteran soldier, marine, sailor airman whatever that works here, all the way up to some of the highest levels of the military, both in rank as well as in movies have been made about guys that work here, that did things and things like that.

So it's just such a wide range of passion here.

It's been a really i mean, i'd say fun because I've been doing, essentially until a week ago, the same job here for ten years, right, and it was never dult, it was never boring.

We're always pushing the envelope, you know, where we have to be very focused on return and investment, and we spend money, but way more often if I take an initiative to Ron or the organization, I say, I'd like to do camp Legion, I'd like to do SIG Chalk where we bring dealers here to experience SIG, where we do consumer events, freedom days, all the things that we do.

Ron has said yes, and invest in those things way more than he said no.

He loves to do that.

And that's interesting because I've said it numerous times.

Is in general, in our industry, if the CEO or founder or whatever of the said company is very engineering and manufacturing minded, a lot of times they're not as marketing minded.

And you're saying he's supported the marketing efforts as well.

I mean, obviously SIG has awesome marketing in the brand is.

I mean, people know what the brand stands for.

That's something that struck me here at the factory is.

And I've been to the factory before, but I'm sure there's been updates in the last few years, just how high tech it is, how automated it is.

I mean, I go, you know, I've been to most of the big factories, and I know they put they take a gun and they put it on a testing machine and it measures all of the parts and tells you if it's.

Out of spec or whatever.

But just one nuance is like, no, there's there's nobody to take it.

It's a machine that puts it on that machine and it measures it, and then it takes it over here and does it.

And then it takes it over here and there's not a person touching.

It for a while.

Yeah right, yeah, I mean it's pretty incredible.

It's amazing.

And you know the good news is we love people like you because you've been to probably almost there.

I bet you've been to every major gun facility in the nucry is absolutely probably.

More than once.

And we like people like you who come here and see this compared to other gun companies.

And I think you know, you were in our Rochester facility today and that's where all the US military rifles machine guns are being made, and it's bigger than our This building was always the mothership.

And now this is still the headquarters, but that's the mothership.

It's larger, the technology is greater there.

It's just it's it's the next level.

And you know, sometimes people go there and they see the floors and they say, well, it's a brand new building.

But then you come here and you see the floors are just as clean.

And this building was open in twenty thirteen, So it's just a standard the technology.

And even if you come here often, if you don't come here every six months to a year, it's going to look different.

Right.

But you guys are building to do rifle tubes ranges for testing, which I mean just I enjoy seeing range construction and so it's cool to see some of the tech that's being put into that.

Just renovated this whole range area out here.

There was one hundred yard tube across the top of the building.

I don't know if you can see in the bed.

Yeah here, but a rifle tube.

Are now two rifle tubes going over the manufacturing floor for them to shoot one hundred yard rifles.

And I think you said something like three and eighty nine tons of steel or something like that.

It's incredible.

Yeah, it's the statistics in that range, the number of rounds that are that go down range, the amount of testing, it's the amount of lead we have to take out of there and so forth, all in the middle of the factory.

And I mean clean and you you know, one of the things you walk into most gun factories and you're like, it's a smell of hoppies or you know whatever, whatever it is, that smell of a gun factory, and it's it's here, but it's it's very faint, you know, it's not it's so clean, the air, it's circulated so well.

And then there's a range right in the middle of the whole facility here, and so yeah, it's just it's every day you come to work and you're like, wow, what do we do different today?

And you know, as an example, we have two different kinds of assembly.

We have guns that we don't make as many of the go down traditional assembly lines.

And we learn through one employee that had an idea that if we build pods and let them build the entire gun, and we take some of our best assemblers and we let them do that, we're faster and the quality doesn't suffer at all.

So for a three sixty five or a three twenty.

You know, those are getting built by one individual going through a pod.

They rotate through teams of three, and they build guns.

And probably better too.

Astran's I mean, it's hard to say it's better because we measure a pass through rate, and so that was the key was making sure that they were at least similar.

So the rates are very similar.

So what it says is even though that's a little bit of a manual process and that's all this technology, there's really very little difference between the quality rate we measure first time through raid and all these different quality measures.

Obviously, we have tons of quality measures that as you've heard Ron talk about what the US military taught us, we were already good.

But the level that you have to.

Do to get through the DCMA the armies, you know, that's crazy, it's insane, and so we've learned to get better and better.

But you have the consistency out there, whether it's one person builds one gun or whether the gun goes down the assembly line, what's coming out on the other end is still a high quality gun.

And the other point that Ron made was like these guys don't know whether they're building a gun for a seal team member, a law enforcement officer, or a civilian.

It's not like we have, as you said, different companies or these guns get built on day shift, night shift, where the order comes through.

These people know what to do and how to do it, and they get measured on every gun.

Doesn't There's no different measurement for a high level military unit or a civilian.

That's a great point talk about in the last I'm not sure.

Maybe going back twelve to fifteen years ago seems to me SIG really started changing as a company.

SIG's been around for a long time, but it really started changing as a company and the products you guys were bringing out.

You've been innovators in a lot of areas and really kind of created categories in a lot of areas.

Talk about some of those innovations, I mean, one of them being all of a sudden, we're talking about capacity of concealed carry guns more than we ever have because of the three sixty five.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was one of those products that just changed everything.

You know, when you can bring a product to market that changes everything, and all your competitors know they have to change to keep up with that innovation.

I think that's the best you can hope for.

But you know, when I'm seeing at Mosburg and I'm watching SIG.

You know, before I.

Came here and I watched the company launch the three twenty, the mc X, the mp X.

Oh now they sell optics.

Oh, now they sell ammunition.

Now they make suppressors, now they make air guns.

Have they do all these things, and so you know, that's what I wanted to be part of.

And so on one hand, you're looking at the CEO who launched seven major, totally new products in about eighteen months, which is just insane that it happened.

Relatively small company at that time, you know, it was a it was on the larger end of the industry, but not not the largest by any means.

But they did all those things in that eighteen month period, seven major product lines.

And then right after I got here, we had the fortune of launching a really cool product line called Legion, which has gone on to achieve incredible things and to continues to grow to this day.

One of our launches this week P.

Three twenty flex Legion.

You know Flex Legion.

If you haven't seen that, guys, go look it up.

It's wild it's crazy, but so that that's something we're very proud of what the Legion grew into.

And then in twenty eighteen, the P three sixty five and that that just stopped everything and everyone said, if you don't have a ten plus round concealed carry gun it, you know you're behind, you're behind the game.

So the industry responded to it, and then the race for more.

You know, it wasn't just ten, then it was twelve.

And then you know with the three sixty five x Macro that magazine should have been fifteen rounds with our first technology, but our engineers got to work and they say, you know, I think we can make a tighter spring, and I think we can get seventeen rounds in there.

So theoretically it should have been ten, twelve, fifteen, but because the innovation from our engineering teams, it went from twelve to seventeen.

And we didn't just keep making the grip longer, you know, it was we were able to get what should have been a fifteen round gun into that seventeen platform.

And now, as you again saw this week with the P three sixty five fuse, you know.

Yeah, talk about the fuse, because that's the newest one, and it's right off the bat.

You put in your hand, you can gosh, okay, it is.

A three sixty five.

It's trim in a lot of ways, but it's the biggest one yet.

From you know, we used to win guns.

You've worked at other gun manufacturers.

You have the full size.

This is how you do things, Tom, You have the full size, then you come up with a compact, and then a subcompact.

The P three sixty five was the smallest, so now it's only gotten larger.

I mean, the fuse is a really cool and I think kind of another kind of a game changer as far as size and capacity and capability.

Yeah, I mean it started with the X Macro with the seventeen rounds, and essentially, whether you wear a gun concealed as a civilian, whether you're carried on your hip as a professional, whether you're carried on your chest plate as a soldier or whatever, it is the X Macro, whether it's a standard or the compensated model, it does everything a gun needs to do.

It had seventeen rounds, It shoots like a full sized gun.

You we knew it had this accuracy and capability, but it also had the thinness and the fetitue feel.

When you see those guns in a hand, it just still looks very small.

And then we said, what's the next iteration of that, and that is the fuse, which you know, kind of our definition of that gun is that we've taken concealment and we fused it with capability.

It's accurate, it's shootable.

We have professional shooters that can't wait to take that gun into competition to show waiting.

And it has essentially the same slide length as the two two six, and so, you know, and then we just kind of dress it up a little bit with a really unique slide.

But it's purposeful.

You know, the forward serrations and the rear serrations are a little deeper cut.

It looks like a you know, really cool, high end race gun, but it's functional.

The grip we get so much feed that the people love the more tactile grips, and so the laser engraving on the grip is more tactile.

So there's a lot of things.

Mean, the the magwall, can you can take it off or leave it on whatever you like, comes with two So this is a huge new development.

It comes to two twenty one round magazines, one seventeen round magazine.

Three magazines, but two twenty one rounds.

And this is I have a question about this because it's very cool.

How does the fuse mingle at the party with the P three twenty because now you're looking at them going wait a minute, now the fuse is holding so much ammo, and it's how does that?

How do those two play together?

I almost want to answer that question say I don't care, okay, because they're both capable products, right.

I mean the US military, the Canadian military, the Australian military, just recently the Danish military have all adopted the P three twenty along with many other special units.

So the gun is proven, we know what it can do.

It's probably the most tested gun on the planet in terms of what it's been able to accomplish in a short period of time.

And now we have this other gun that comes to market that can do everything the P three twenty can do, but it's in a little bit smaller platform.

So I think what we've done is we've said, okay, if you want the same gun that every major US military and many of the special forces units throughout the world are using, it's this one.

It's a little it's a little media, it's a little thicker or whatever.

But if you want this gun and the magic of the three sixty five, even though it has that one inch with when you pick it up, it just feels great.

And then if you want a little bit different version of that, pick up a three sixty five axg Legion with the aluminum different field.

It feels like a mini two to nine.

Yeah, it's just really.

Well, look I'm not I mean, I like options.

There's no reason you don't have to buy just one gun.

No one should ever do that.

One hundred percent.

So what we hope we've done in the world of full sized guns.

When you look at the universe of the most popular full sized guns out there, which by the way, have less capacity than a three sixty five Macro X Macro or fuse, this gun can do everything you need it to do.

They're all modular, the three twenty and the three sixty five, so you can you have one fire control unit of either gun you can pretty much do not pretty much, you can do whatever you want.

And those who've played with that fire control unit automatically start going, wait a minute, I can take this slide from this and the frame from this, and we can start interchanging.

I mean we haven't even you know, dust got and burned off all the manufacturing oil on the gun, and we're already saying, wait a minute, what can we do with this?

Well, oddly enough, I work for the company.

I know a lot about the products, and I said the other day, oh my god, this fuse.

Everybody loves it.

It's so cool.

You know, maybe the.

Next iteration is the P three sixty five fuse ax G.

I was like, wait a minute, we have that.

Just take just take the grip off your XG, put it on that and you.

I don't want to get Lena in trouble.

But she may have made one for me at the range.

We may have shot it a little bit.

It may have been awesome inside baseball here, right, So but no, it's just it's.

It doesn't really matter what you want.

You can you can build it here, whether it's a three twenty platform, whether it's a three sixty five platform.

But you know, I have me personally, his personal opinion.

I've fallen in love with a three sixty five, and I have I have three twenties, but I've fallen in love with a gun.

And you know, for a for a soldier, it's a little different.

If they want the gun because it's flat across a chess plate or whatever.

You know, that's great, it's shootable, it's got as many rounds as you need.

But for a cop who probably is not going to discharge that gun in a real life situation in their career, why not carry the most efficient gun that you possibly can.

Because you've got a full sized gun, it takes up space, it's got all this going on, but why not carry a more efficient gun.

And so, you know, we we're just starting to give people choices.

And if you're same thing, if you're a cop and you're carrying a duty gun that's an X Macro or a fuse and then you go home on the weekend and need to conceal carry, you've got your three.

You can either rebuild it with your fire control unit, or you've got another three sixty five, whether you we're at concealed keeping, your car or wherever you use it.

So it's a platform that if you want to look at advantages and disadvantages, the three twenty can do I mean sorry, the three sixty five can can go all the way from up here to down here from a consualment and a performance standpoint, Well.

It's been fun hanging out with you guys for a couple of days.

I mean, I've been to SIG several times, but you guys are always doing new things.

I've seen new products, I've seen new stuff on the manufacturing floor, and from what I can tell, there's more coming.

Yeah.

Well, and you've had over the years an inside baseball look at SIG many times.

But our idea this week was to open up everything, everybody in the factory, everything you see, so you know, for all the stories of like this the big bad secretive SIG or whatever, that's not who we are, you know, it's it's a company of passionate people that the CEO is, you know, he's the most.

Passionate of all.

Maybe but absolutely, But that was.

The idea to have a week where you can just see anything and everything about SIG.

Thanks Tom, Absolutely, it's always fine.