Maisie: Page 94, the Private Eye Podcast

Andy: Hello and welcome to another episode of Page 94.

My name's Andrew Hunter Murray, and I'm here in the private eye office with Helen Lewis, Adam McQueen and Sarai Shannon.

We are gonna be talking about all sorts of things in this episode.

We've got three cracking subjects lined up later on.

We're gonna be having a quiz.

We're

Adam: Yay,

Helen: yay,

Andy: it's summer.

Why not?

we're also going to be having a chat about, America, which apparently has an Army.

And is very excited to show it off.

But first we thought we'd cover something close to home.

So you will have doubtless noticed.

The fact that Reform, the party have been in the news a great deal recently, partly because, their chair Zia Yusuf resigned and then Unresigned 48 hours later.

that's been the big ticket headline about Reform recently.

But actually, of course.

Reform have been far more prominent because on the 1st of May they won big in quite a lot of local elections all around the country.

So they took control of 10 local authorities outright.

, Sarai who has been writing a little bit about what has actually been going on in those 10, county councils and local authorities since the beginning of May.

So Sarai, we, wanted to ask you, how's it going so far and what is the.

Agenda that they have?

what is their big, offer to the electorate?

Sarah: I think first of all, Reform UK is going to be the gift that keeps on giving to the Rotten Boroughs page.

I think the last five issues, they've managed to fill about half the column.

thank you very much.

and, no, the, two key.

Themes to emerge, I think, are that, the Reform councilors, quite a few of them haven't hung around for very long.

we're only six weeks from the election and, five or six have already either resigned or been suspended from the party.

For various reasons.

Andy: I hope we get into those reasons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah: and the other thing, to note is the sort of lack of policy or the policies they have got seem to be getting them into lots of hot

Helen: hang on a minute, they've got a great policy about only flying.

Is it count Iran now that it's now the UK flag, the English flag and also possibly your county flag, but absolutely not.

The bisexual flag?

No, which, and yeah, no, 'cause honestly, everyone wade into this round.

The TOS got involved too, and the TOS put out a press release saying that David Lamie was seen hoisting the bisexual flag over Whitehall, which I think is my favorite euphemism I've ever

Andy: flies both ways off the pole, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah: particularly

Adam: the bisexual flag they've got a problem

Helen: Yeah, they were really annoyed

Adam: L and the G and the T and the Q, but no the B's.

No B's.

Sarah: No bees.

And also the Ukraine flag

Andy: so one of the big claims that Reform made going into the local election is that they can run councils much more efficiently.

And, they wanted to say that they're going to have, doge, department of Government deficiency, Elon Musk's American outfit.

They said that local councils could, make so many, gains and savings from efficiency.

is there any evidence of that yet, or that project

Sarah: that project has begun.

but let's just say the road's been a bit bumpy so far because, the people that took charge of that were Zia Yusef, the chairman of Reform, who resigned recently, and then Unresigned, and a tech bro called Nathaniel Fry, who's.

Kind of our answer to Elon Musk, if you imagine he wears a

Adam: no one was

Helen: asking.

Sarah: He wears, a baseball cap, but I, haven't seen him with a chainsaw yet, but I, guess it is only time.

So they unresigned and now they're.

Back looking through the books of, Kent County Council, the residents are getting a bit nervous.

They're saying, is our personal information going to be respected?

We are not sure we really want reform.

UK's head office raking through our personal details.

They are covered by rules and regulations, and data protection.

So you know that they're not happy about that.

And then one resident told the Eye that he had written back to Reform UK saying, in the interest of transparency, would you mind opening your own books to me so that I could check through everything that you've done since your party was started?

But so far they haven't replied to him.

Andy: 'Cause Rotten Borough is obviously rights a great deal about wasteful spending by councils.

Yeah.

And it's frequently along the lines of wasteful or rather extremely inflated council salaries for heads of council of chief executives, officers, that kind of thing.

That does feel like an area where you could theoretically make savings.

But actually, obviously most councils spend, I think it's up to 80% of their budget on children's and adult social care.

So I'm trying to work out what.

Where these big savings are going to

Sarah: to supposedly come from?

I think, yeah.

the idea that there's huge savings to be made, I think is pretty ludicrous.

When councils are cut to the bone, they've, core budget has fallen by 27%.

It's 2010.

they're having to make cutbacks in really essential areas.

We're seeing councils going bankrupt or technically bankrupt.

having to have government bailouts, there's not loads of money sloshing around in local government ready to be cut,

Andy: but, they're not saying they're going to have these big salaries or payouts to departing executives,

Sarah: they haven't really got.

Into the policy in that kind of detail.

Yeah.

Which I think was what Rupert Lowe pointed out, in his big bust up with reform was that, where are the actual policy papers on things like social care High Street renewal and things like that.

we need some actual facts, but the things that they have gone big on are things like net zero, low traffic neighborhoods.

That was my favorite because Zia Yusef said, the 10 reform areas would become havens for, motorists with no low traffic neighborhoods anymore.

'cause they were gonna get rid of them all.

And then it turned out that none of the 10 council areas had low traffic neighborhoods anyway.

Andy: But also they don't, councils don't spend huge amounts of money on, net zero projects.

That's not a council spending area.

Sarah: No, exactly.

And also in, for example, in Greater Lincolnshire, renewable energies brings in a huge amount of money into the county.

I think 980 million pounds at the last count.

And it accounts for 12,000 jobs in that county.

So Andrea Jenkins, the new mayor, and, her like talking down net zero isn't gonna go down very well with the people whose jobs depend on it.

Adam: Is part of the problem the way that people vote in local elections?

'cause very few people actually bother to put in the kind of homework and, know about the minutiae of local government and who does what, including, it sounds like an awful lot of the people who were actually running for reform.

but they tend to do it on a sort of vibes basis of what they're feeling about national politics at any at any given time.

And at the moment we've got Nigel Farage and, his gang kind of high riding, really high in the polls.

And people think, this is a way to give Keir Starmer a bloody note.

And then you end up with people coming in and actually there, there's very little they can do in terms of, they, they can tweak a few local budgets in very, specific areas.

But when it comes to the, big things that reform is campaigning on, which is MI migration and, EDI and, net zero and those kind of things, actually, there's not many levers they can actually pull at that level.

Sarah: No, exactly.

I mean you have to assume protest votes were happening.

Adam: that's part of, is that part of the reason a lot of the councilors have already resigned as well?

'cause they were effectively gonna be paper candidates, which you always get in elections, don't you?

Parties put up certain people 'cause they never think they're gonna get in.

And then there has, this has been this huge surge in, in support from a few people.

Ended up, hang on, I've been elected.

I didn't actually mean to at all.

Sarah: I think that was.

One of the problems, I'll go through a couple of the candidates that have resigned.

There was a guy in Durham called Andrew Kilburn who resigned because he was, working for the council and you're not allowed to work for the council and be a counselor.

Whether he hadn't spotted that or whether he

Adam: that saves some money from the budget,

Sarah: I don't really know.

And then there was a chap called Wayne Tit Lee in.

Staffordshire council, and he resigned for personal reasons, which may or may not be related to a Facebook post he'd put up saying that he thought one way of getting rid of small boats crossing the channel would be for the Navy to gunfire on

Helen: Yes, it did have that air that it was going in that when you said that the start of that post, I thought a Facebook post.

oh.

oh.

Choppy waters ahead.

Sarah: So I think there must have been some people that were very surprised to wake up and find themselves.

counselors delighted in some cases.

Some obviously have already resigned.

and the irony is that, reform UK is all about slashing red tape and saving taxpayers money, and they've already got, five by elections to run e, each of which is gonna cost about 25 grand.

So that's a good

Helen: the other thing is I think that we're probably gonna hear about every single one of these because from the point of view of Labour at national level, they want to run the next election as Labour versus reform.

And I think this is very annoying to the liberal democrats who think what are we.

Chop liver, and it's very annoying to the Conservative Party who still exists, but they know that lots and lots of people, for all the people that love Nigel Farage, there are a lot of people who be motivated to vote against him.

And that might be a way of Labour clinging onto its vote after a difficult set of years financially.

But what that also means is that the Labour research department will be looking into a lot of these, right?

there'll be a lot of Facebook posts being read by

Andy: people big barrel, a lot of fish is what

Adam: the problem they're facing.

'cause everyone's getting very excited, as I say about Reform being very high in the, kind of national polls at the moment.

But because of the way our electoral system works, it's not just the Nigel Far show, it can't just be Nigel Frost show.

He's gotta find 650 candidates, all of whom preferably haven't got Facebook posts that talk about that sort of thing or any kinda skeletons in the closet or anything that's that.

And that's.

Quite a challenge going on kind of past, past form, isn't it?

Andy: got, is it five mps now?

Yes.

'cause Rupert Low left and then the new one, Sarai Putin, signed up.

But of those five, there's already one with a criminal conviction.

So if you scale that up to a national level, that's gonna be, it's gonna be well over a hundred

Adam: And the scrutiny you get in national elections, if you're standing for parliament, is so much more than, than you get standing as a local councilor, isn't it?

Yeah.

So this stuff is gonna get

Sarah: out.

Exactly.

And the liberal Democrats have actually bothered to set up a research unit keeping a Reform Watch.

they're, not giving up hope.

Adam: but journalists as well, covering general elections, most of the, grind of a General Election campaign is so tedious, isn't it?

It's going on battle buses and saying, what, Kia or Kemi said when standing in front of what vehicle, in what factory at any given time.

So the joy of having a a sort of a Jared o Omar or other, loon who you've managed to dig out some, crazy online stuff from.

And, and, do that

Helen: story instead.

But have we crossed a kind of loon, a porous loon barrier, which we will now not be able to retrench from?

Because I just wonder if we're getting into a bit of that post cancellation zone.

And I know you will have appreciate Adam as much as me watching the new, the replacement for EF David Boulogne party Chairman talk about his belief in ghosts on it.

Read to Richard Madeley, which made me one of the best clips of television that I've seen all year

Andy: was this.

Was he talking about this after being elected?

Helen: Reforms appointed?

Yeah, yeah.

'cause he used to host most haunted Live, And he told an incredible story.

So Richard Madeley being Richard Madeley, asked the questions that Britain is dying to know the answer to, and said, do you believe in ghosts?

Which you can feel that Laura Kosberg, which first realize like a bit below her, but, and he was like, yes, I do.

And then told this incredible story about filming Most haunted live.

He turned up, he felt there was a presence in the back of his car.

He turned up at the hotel and Derek Kora TV medium, Derek Kora, said to him.

You didn't come here alone, did you?

Which he took to be massively spooky, but could also equally be just a very generic question that you asked, oh, you not brought someone with you to this hotel.

Yeah.

and then De Cora said that he would channel, David Bull's dead grandmother, but which he started to do, but then immediately started to try and strangle him.

Andy: Sorry.

Adam: says something about family relationships in the Boulogne family,

Helen: grand mother is so da.

Wait, David Bull's bodyguards at this point, according to his account.

Pull off Kora, as it were.

And the next morning, David Boulogne asked Erykah Cora what happens?

And he said, I was trying to channel your grandmother, but then a malevolent spirit came through.

Sarah: Oh, and.

Helen: Richard made Lee's response to this was magnificent, which was, and you'd have had him hanged under your plan, wouldn't you?

Wouldn't you, Derek?

They were bought.

No one out made Lee's the Madely.

Andy: Is this a vote winner?

A lot of people

Helen: this and loads of people believe in ghosts, but I just thought it, if you can now just be talking about your love of ghosts and ITV breakfast shows, maybe the, our belief that the kind of crank element of, Reform is gonna inhibit them, may be tragically wrong.

Andy: this is a smaller ver this is a smaller version of Trumpism, isn't it?

Have you've got a thousand targets to a match?

Helen: Yeah.

Or the guy in the Greens who thought he could hypnotize women's, to get their breasts bigger,

Andy: but he ha he has he stepped down from running for the leadership?

Okay.

Helen: No.

Maybe there's a huge boob hypnosis vote out there, Andrew.

you just don't know.

Adam: And actually there is', I dunno about their views on the supernatural, but there is certainly a very kind of porous membrane between people who are going to that right wing reforming type ticket and.

Some quite serious conspiracy theorizing, isn't there?

we wrote a bit in the last, last issue about, Neil Oliver, who was a presenter on GB News, which is if anything it's the reform TV channel.

he's now actually, he's so wacky and out there that they've taken him off air and put him on, online only.

Ofcom, get no say over what he says or doesn't say, but he's been quite happily retweeting David Ike and talking about, how outside forces are controlling our world and recording videos with Beverly Turner.

is it Beverly Turner?

I think there's another GB news presenter who, about how COVID may never have existed in the first place.

there, there is an audience out there for, and they are politically a politically active audience who, who like this kind of thing.

So maybe the.

Kind of what was, David Cameron's phrase about pp reform brutal fruitcakes loons and, ra and closet racist, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

no, and the racism is certainly less closet for in, in a lot of cases now.

But the, the loons and the fruitcakes are also having a bit of a day in the sun

Sarah: these days,

Helen: yeah, but I think there is gonna be an interesting point about when the scrutiny comes in.

'cause as you say, Sarai, they've now got all these counselors who will be doing things that will either delight or annoy their constituents, but they're also predicted to do quite well in the Welsh elections next year.

They're doing increasingly well in Scotland after having some sort of slightly high handed Scottish commentary about how the, these English racists will never get foothold here.

Actually not doing badly.

Andy: They came third in the recent by election, but with a, the high twenties share of the

Helen: vote, but this is happening a lot.

They often come in not what objectively doesn't look like a great position, but from absolutely nowhere with very little campaigning base, as you say, paper candidates essentially sometimes being put up.

The vibe is definitely, people are, really pissed off with Labour.

They don't, they haven't yet forgiven the Tories.

Everyone's forgotten about the existence of the Lib Dems unless you live in the Gails belt.

And then there's who else or who else is left?

Andy: Can I give you one more stat, which I just found interesting about a, major plank of Reforms, , appeal.

It's certainly in the councils they're running, which is the idea of we need British Doge.

This is from about a week ago.

This is a u gov poll From everything you've seen and heard, do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the US Government's Department of Government efficiency at Doge?

Very Favorable: 6%, Somewhat Favorable: 9%.

So 15 in total have a positive view of Doge?

Somewhat Unfavorable: 13%.

Very Unfavorable, 34% and then lots of Don't Knows, 37%.

This is not, it appears to, I'm just looking at these numbers, thinking this

Sarah: is like unpopular

Andy: almost.

what's the reasoning?

Why do

Helen: it?

But the answer is that Doge is an idea, is incredible.

Doge in reality was terrible.

and this is what you were coming back to saying that about slashing the budgets, the idea of, I, there's lots of people being paid 50,000 grand a year to be the gay officer in Northampshire and we'll get rid of that.

that, like that is a workable proposition.

It's just obviously these stories often end up not to be what you might call...

True.

And then what actually ends up happening is that they get in, see that 70% of the budget goes on social care, and the idea of chucking old people out onto the street is not that

Sarah: popular in Lincolnshire.

Yeah.

Andrew Jenkins big thing was to get rid of DEI related things, diversity, equity, and inclusion.

And then pointed out to her that there were no DEI related posts on her new council and she said, they're hiding under other, names like, like community outreach officers.

Helen: So I can see why in principle, doge really appeals to him in the same way.

It massive Elon Musk going on stage and saying, I'm gonna cut 2 trillion from the federal budget, got a clap line every time.

It's just that he got there and he was like, oh, should we take benefits away from veterans?

Adam: it'll be very hard for anyone who's been reading private eyes rotten borough columns for however many years to, object to the idea of someone going in and actually getting rid of excessive spending.

But also when it comes to the realism of what you can do, as you say,

Sarah: That's true.

And just, at a moment where.

Councils are really struggling with very small budgets for really emergency essential services.

It seems like and it'll be interesting to see where they come up with that.

That needs to be cut.

Andy: Are there any more, especially juicy or weird councils or councilors

Sarah: there's this chap in Lester Cher called Andrew Hamilton Gray.

And he failed to mention to voters that he'd been sacked from the police last year, after a long career in the police, he had been, reporting himself in as sick, and actually he'd been delivering cars for a luxury car company, but he did tell the voters that he was a longstanding public servant.

Yeah, Just didn't mention that until quite recently when I'm now I'm not

Helen: yeah.

And then they find out what I was really doing.

Yeah.

Sarah: yes,

Andy: I'm sure there's gonna be a lot more about reform in, in the coming issues of rotten boroughs and the coming pages of the

Sarah: Mac, I'm sure.

Andy: Right now we're back for part two of the podcast.

And actually little, little team change.

We've had a substitution, Sarai Shannon has regenerated as Ian Hislop.

Hello Ian.

Ian: Hello.

I'm going to turn into Billy Piper in a minute.

Helen: a minute.

Andy: so for this one I thought it might be fun to get into, it via a joke piece.

'cause there was a joke in the last, Eye, which was.

the headline was America Invades America.

And this is about the fact that having taken office promising to, annex Canada, take over Venezuela, control the Suez Canal, various other bits around the world, Donald Trump has now deployed the Army to, California.

And this coincided last weekend scenes of, riots and National Guard, the Marines being sent in, with a huge military parade in Washington, DC where Trump was celebrating the, US Army and they were celebrating their 250th birthday, but they had not originally intended to have a parade.

for Trump's 79th birthday, so he's one third as old as the US Army.

Interesting.

he had said I'd like to have a parade on my birthday.

Lots of tanks, lots of soldiers.

Helen, how did it go?

Helen: Very badly.

I'm delighted to report.

there was a guy carrying a drone that was a low point, hoisting it, a loft,

Andy: But he was also holding the remote controller.

Helen: Yeah.

I presume you just can't fly

Adam: hadn't charged the batteries.

They forgot someone forgot

Helen: Exactly.

Ages three and up they, yeah.

But, but also they couldn't march.

fundamentally, they were not in time anyway, I've conducted extensive investigation to this by asking military contacts and the theory is apparently it's very hard to march without a drumbeat of some sort to keep you in time.

And the fact they were playing Fortunate Sun and YMCA and whatever, the disco classics didn't help as if the fact, apparently if you're wearing rubber boots, combat boots, they don't make enough of a snap on the floor to be able to, again, keep you in time.

Andy: over here.

Of course, we also had, we had the king's birthday on, on same day and the, the trooping of the color Have we just been spoiled by Britain's traditional mastery of pageantry over the years?

Are we

Ian: used to it?

I'm afraid.

I watched both ceremonies, with a swell of pride, thinking.

They have Trump's birthday, which I've decided is now the trooping of the color orange.

It always to be known.

And it does make very, clear the boring constitutional point that, pro-Monachists always raise is loyalty to The Crown means you don't end up with loyalty to a big orange man, baby, celebrating his own birthday.

And there's, a dignity even if it's, mildly amusing.

to watch the antics of the royal family on the balcony entities.

but that somehow is less, undignified than watching a frankly shambolic display of non marching, to commemorate an event which Trump didn't seem to understand what had happened,

Andy: So couldn't march because there was no drumbeat and they were in

Helen: soft sold

Andy: wrong Shoes, yeah.

But it looked like they were out for a walk.

Helen: they just ambled along, didn't they?

There was no other crisp kind of say what you like about North Korea, but they know how to put on a parade.

Ian: that's,

Andy: I imagine that North Korea, Russia, that, they, the huge where they, wheel the Cruise missiles through the main square.

they've had decades of practice of this.

So is it simply about that?

Helen: but also that it, it's about what you want your Army for.

Do you want a huge ceremonial Army that are drilled in this all the time, or do you want an Army?

Lots of people in the US Army that were on that parade, they'll work in things like beaten and drone operators over kind of Pakistan.

They're not necessarily.

That sort of, they're not the marchy type of soldier

Ian: but the mood was wrong.

Americans traditionally don't do this.

one of the marks of being a fascist is you have military parades, which celebrate the, commander in chief, which, in our case is a member of the royal family, or it's Princess Ann in a terrific hat.

No, she's not command in chief.

I'm perfectly aware of that, but you get that feel to it.

in America, traditionally, they associate that with, fascist, regimes or communist regimes.

It's surprisingly un-American, and the only bit that I thought was genuine American, I.

Well, the Helen agrees was the recreation of, the dressing up of the first defeat of the British, which, was very well done and they're good at that bit.

but again, I think someone should explain to Trump what the point of that Army was.

The continental Army, full of people like the French.

again, none of these details are, very useful to for him.

but it was about.

Freedom

Helen: they should have made poor Marco Rubio, but like the Mar and Mac Lafayette and stuff like that, like a school nativity play, they've all gotta dress up.

But you are right.

My colleague, Tom Nichols at The Atlantic, who worked as a military instructor, naval instructor for 25 years, said this is about habituating Americans to the idea of seeing tanks in the streets about seeing the Army on the streets.

It's all about politicizing the Army.

So not long beforehand, he had given, Trump had given a speech at Fort Bragg and had mocked Joe Biden saying he could never get a crowd like this.

They were selling MAGA merch.

They'd specially selected the soldiers to be enthusiastic about Trump

Andy: So this is an audience con consisting entirely of

Helen: American soldiers of serving soldiers in uniform, which is, it is.

it is forbidden for American soldiers in uniform to do anything that is political, right?

It's just like one of those hard lines.

But they said they asked for volunteers to come to this and they were selling MAGA stuff on the base.

And so it is just blurring of the, this is what Trump wanted to do.

He wanted to send in the Army too, if you remember, crushed the George Floyd protest in 2020 and, he wanted to have an Army.

Basically teargas people outta the square in DC so that he could go and, look at some of the stuff.

And the people around him at that time said no.

'cause there was still some normie generals and he's just obviously cleared them out.

But the thing I was gonna say that's that kind of coded to this is Fort Bragg.

Could you imagine who Fort Bragg is named after

Adam: Melvin?

Andy: Billy.

Adam: Billy's Even better.

Yes.

Helen: So Fort Bragg historically was named after Braxton Bragg, who was a Confederate general, and then the Pentagon under Biden, who went through this process where he said, maybe we should, given that they lost in the Civil War, maybe we should rename all of these bases.

So it was renamed Fort Liberty in 2022.

Anyway, the Trump administration is now.

Gone back to renaming all of these bases like Fort Lee, which was originally named after Robert E.

Lee, but it now pretends that it hasn't named them after Confederate Generals.

This is now allegedly named after private first class Roland Bragg, who got a Purple Heart for the Battle of the Bulge, the Robert E.

Lee one is now.

Allegedly named after Private Fitley, a Black soldier who fought in the Spanish American War.

So the Trump administration under Peter Hegseth as Secretary of Defense has restored all the Confederate names, but in that typical bloody irritating little internet trollway that they had been like, "it's not actually named after Robert E.

Lee, it's another Robert E.

Lee who goes to another school.

You can't have a go at us."

Ian: That's utterly pathetic

Adam: It does.

It is a bit windrush line,

Helen: it's a bit like you can Yeah.

But also that you you can't, I'm not touching, can't get mad.

it's got that sort of sense of winding you up deliberately, but then you can't Oh, but it's not actually, you can't actually have a go us for renaming everything after Confederate Soldiers because of the Confederacy support for slavery

Ian: and other, is there a fault, Jim Crow, that we could have

Helen: named after exactly James Crow a Wonderful Rail Women, Yeah.

it's, but it's all like that basically they brought back in the same way that they've renamed.

Mount McKinley, the Gulf of America, they brought back all of these, names and that's where he was.

He was speaking at Fort Bragg.

Ian: and when he takes the salute and actually gives a salute, are you allowed to do that as a civilian who's had not only no combat experience, but five separate, successful attempts to avoid doing military service yourself?

Helen: I think I was thinking about when you were talking about Princess Anne on parade, it must absolutely kill him that he can't ride a horse.

maybe he can, but certainly not to the quality required to ride when the military prayed.

And I think one of the reasons they got so annoyed with, Admiral Rachel Levi, who's the highest serving transgender official, was that she was a decorated Navy veteran.

Who was therefore allowed to wear a Navy uniform, which were the female version of.

but I think it must absolutely annoy Trump incredibly well that someone is allowed, someone else is allowed to wear a uniform who they think is a sort of woke.

DI hire, I bet he'd love a uniform, wouldn't he love a, like the gold braid on the cap's?

Adam: which is not something our royal family have a problem with.

They're quite big on the uniforms and the metals, aren't they

Ian: yep.

Oh yes.

Andy: I did think when they were playing the song, Fortunate Sun, just about the most famous anti-war.

Anti-nepotism, anti-capitalism song of all time.

I wonder if this takes Donald back to his days.

Not in Vietnam,

Helen: but apparently that's in the, that's in the Forrest Gump soundtrack.

So that's the theory.

He used to play a lot at, rallies.

So the theory is that he quite likes the film, Forrest Gump as a great film of the nineties, in fairness.

Sure.

And has simply never ever asked what the lyrics are about.

Adam: it's also Bruce Springsteen points out that born in the USA is not a song about how great the USA is and how well it looks after the working class.

Ian: these are all veterans protest songs and there are a lot of rather good accounts of, , veteran protest groups turning up, and then being arrested by, policemen half their age and then having to say.

We actually fought in the military, we are allowed to do this protest.

And No Kings is, it's a very specific historical constitutional point, which these protests are called.

Andy: we haven't really mentioned yet, the third event that was happening.

in America you have the, you have on one coast, you have the parade.

On the other coast you have the Marines being sent in and then all over the country.

There's no Kings Day of protest, which I think attracted somewhere between four and 6 million

Helen: I think it's a really good slogan 'cause I think is exactly how Trump sees himself.

Yes, he's been elected, but I think he now sees him, he sees the executive branch as the source of, he's Louis the 14th.

he's, he is the state as far as he sees

Adam: it.

he has actually put out as well as pictures, ai, pictures of him as the Pope.

He did put one of him out with a crown on, didn't he as well,

Andy: Twat.

Okay.

Helen: just one for our fans of yeah, French history there.

Very good

Ian: good indeed.

Andy: that feels like a lot of people to draw out?

I know that's, what is it a couple of percent of the overall population?

Helen: If, it's really seriously big protests and actually largely, as Ian was saying, non, non-violent, in contrast to the riots that have been happening in LA where there has been, they were setting Waymo's, the self-driving cars on fire, which was the pretext for then Trump sending in the Nadi National Guard.

Now he didn't ask California governor.

Gavin Newsom before doing that, which is a violation, of how things are supposed to be done.

And that then went to a judge and then that went to appeal.

It will probably end up in the Supreme Court as.

I think that's the one thing you, if you wanna say anything about American politics.

Now, a bit like you saying things are very different in the South.

The thing you have to say in American politics now is it'll probably end up in the Supreme Court, because almost everything does.

But the courts are really at this point.

The only thing that are effectively holding Trump back from what he would like to do, which is politicize everything and turn the entire state into a personal extension of himself.

Ian: Helen, you, wrote two columns, and one was about how, the MAGA movement really hates California.

that's, its main thing.

And the other thing was about how much they hate Gavin.

and both of those things came to a head this week.

So I thought, ah, not only, I thought maybe you know what you're talking about, but is this something he's just been waiting for?

Helen: There is, in the mythology of America, California is.

is seen as the kind of place where there's hippies and now that's matured.

Now into woke him.

There is a feeling, they hate the coasts.

They hate snooty, do good.

It's the same way that they hate sort of Martha's Vineyard and like that, which is where Obama is retired to.

But there is a feeling that there, yeah, that's not Heartland America, that's snooty coastal Americans.

and, funnily enough, it's now the other set of mythology really, Trump is best understood as a Floridian politician.

the archetype of America is basically Florida versus California.

And Gavin Newsom has really used this moment.

They, he, Tom Holman, who is the borders Tsar threatened to arrest him.

And he said, come and arrest me then.

And he was clear.

he's the consummate probably, he's quite early agist, but, he really wanted to have this, fight and has now, I think, leapt to the front of the pack in kind of 20, 28 terms.

as being somebody who was willing to be the face of opposition to Trump.

And, he can do that because he's got a huge amount of money.

He's got a big.

State, but I think there are things in the same way that for Kamala Harris, were a problem.

If you run in California, you are only ever, your challenges only ever come from the left.

So you normally end up saying a lot of slightly bonkers things in primaries because, that's where the real election is.

And so that will be his, problem going forward.

But for the moment, it works quite well because he's got this, he's, he can also, he's running one of the biggest economies on earth.

He's got an independent power base.

And so as a face of opposition to Trump, he's in a very good.

Place to be that

Ian: And, California has made a profit.

Helen: Yeah.

Ian: Unlike any Trump business, we've, noticed, if you're, talking about successful business experience, then presumably that

Helen: something Trump doesn't have it.

the, one of the things I did notice, it comes back to another column that I wrote, was the fact that one of the sponsors for the parade was Coinbase, which is the crypto exchange.

You right.

this is just cheap, isn't it?

At least we do the cheaping of the color brought you by O2.

I think it's just cheapens.

It doesn't it, but the Trump family.

Yeah.

Andy: Right.

Will they, have to have these banners when they invade somewhere?

Will they have to have some Coinbase representation?

Helen: And the MyPillow guy gets his own like regiment.

But this is, this is what it is.

It's like Trump is, has made so much money and the whole Trump family has made so much money, particularly from crypto.

And again, it's another example of him just thinking he can license his image, which is, as you say, and that's the only thing he's ever really done in business successfully.

And now he's able to do it from the, the podium of the presidency.

Ian: So the lines between, the president and the Army have blurred the lines between the president and the treasury and public and private money.

They're all blurred.

is this deliberate

Helen: I think there's people behind him.

the, like the Heritage Foundation, the think Tank put together this very influential document called Project 2025, in which they laid out a blueprint essentially for the term and all the things and the regulations they wanted to handle.

I think the main way to see it is just from Trump's perspective.

He thinks he got elected, he's beloved by the people, and therefore he should be allowed to do what he wants because he's the people's instrument.

I think it's.

it's a shame he went to see Les Mis.

'cause I think really he, in a way, he would've been better off seeing a Vita.

'cause I think he just has a great, he just thinks they love me.

one of the things he said to the troops where it's great to see all these troops here.

I love you and you love me.

He's got this sort of belief that he should be allowed to do what he wants 'cause he's in tune with the soul of the people.

Even though, half of them did not vote for him.

And as well as half of them

Adam: I do get the feeling that two sides are fighting on a different battlefield.

To use an appropriate metaphor here, 'cause you've got one side, the No Kings thing is about a very specific point in history and what, George III did, and then you've got Trump giving his address to the troops, in which he said, our soldiers never give up, never surrender, never ever quit.

They fight, and they win, win.

Literally, how many years is it since that chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan?

Yeah, even before you get onto exactly how things ended in Vietnam or Korea, it's this broad brush view of history, which is sort of history.

How you want it to be and the Army, how you want it to be.

and it just sails over reality, doesn't it?

Ian: Not to mention Iraq, that where, are the

Andy: We fight, and we have a reasonably good record.

Helen: mix, catch.

Ian: Yeah.

Or we fight, and then we withdraw in the

Helen: Yeah, I was gonna say Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.

It's not it's not great.

you really want to

Adam: you can see why they're going back to.

Andy: Right now the third section today as promised a bit of summer fun a quiz.

prompted by something that Liz Truss ask your parents, did a week or two ago.

she

Helen: your

Adam: your mortgage advisor.

Andy: she was photographed, promoting brand of whiskey, alongside a man who the, proprietor of the whiskey firm who in 2023 was jailed for 10 months after repeatedly punching a 78-year-old man in the face during a pub brawl.

and she, she didn't see a problem with, promoting it.

this has prompted some.

Some comment, although quite a lot of people have just thought, let's not bother.

It is Liz Truss, but

Ian: can I just say, when you say one was that bothered, I'm afraid the people who write Private Life could find

Helen: no other subject

Ian: from him saying, you've had enough love to, Liz trusts to pictures of her with the whiskey barrel people going, this is the bottom of the barrel.

I'm afraid there were quite a lot of people who cared.

Adam: It was the purely truness of it, wasn't it?

'cause it meant an minister flogging some dodgy whiskey brand already.

That would be quite a story.

But 'cause it's Liz Trust, it has to be a guy who's been convicted of GBH,

Andy: It has to get worse.

It has to get

Helen: worse.

worse and she especially, she didn't even get any money for it either.

So she did this humiliation for free.

Ian: do you think she thinks GB H is a special type of patriotic

Andy: great British harm?

Yes.

I, no, you're absolutely right.

She wasn't, receiving the big bucks for this, but she's, done a few other things since her time in office, and I thought it would be a fun jumping off point, for a quiz about what other things, members of parliament or ex members of parliament have done or are currently doing.

In many

Adam: cases, you don't have to justify Andy, when you just say, quiz, we go,

Helen: Yay.

Yay.

Adam: Do a quiz.

Do a quiz.

Andy: Okay.

here's question one then.

It's about the trusts incident itself.

Now that was, huge brand opportunity, But what was the whiskey and what was her excuse after she was challenged about it?

Helen: I have no idea what the whiskey's called, but her spokesman's response was, after saying that he'd come out with it, he got an assault conviction was, I thought you believed in the rehabilitation of offenders, which is what I'm gonna say whenever I get caught doing anything dodgy.

Have you know Christian Mercy?

Andy: Exactly.

There's a point you for that.

A any take on the whiskey seat.

It hasn't even worked.

This, brand campaign of hers is all I'm saying.

Adam: wasn't called Mr.

Jameson

Ian: is it called Cease and Desist?

Andy: He should be selling punch.

Really?

sorry.

That's a very, cheap joke.

It's, you're so close.

When you say, Jameson's, because it's not James but Joyce.

It's called Joyce's Irish Whiskey.

And we'd like to make it clear we don't endorse it.

Great.

Adam: But it wasn't James Joyce that was selling

Helen: it.

No.

Adam: Okay.

Helen: When he's been dead for quite an achievement, but yes,

Ian: Was it?

Adam: it?

Ian: wasn't Eric Joyce's, was it?

That would

Adam: That

Andy: now I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay on whiskey for a moment.

which parliamentary figure has been selling their own whiskey for the last five years.

Helen: Parliamentary

Andy: Parliamentary figure.

Parliamentary figure.

Are

Ian: you saying not an mp?

It's the speaker.

There's a

Adam: trick there, isn't it?

Yeah,

Andy: Ian, you've got it.

It's Lindsay Hoyle.

Every speaker of the House of Commons makes their own whiskey, which

Adam: I don't think they actually make their own, do they?

I think they put their name to, they probably taste a few.

Whiskies

Andy: is a

Adam: massive.

Still

Ian: What is he literally saying?

Order orders.

Helen: What a great little boon dogger.

So you get your speakership and then they send you off to some charming Scottish island where you taste a number of whiskeys.

Adam: It is a huge thing.

If you ever go along to any sort of MP's Christmas raffle or anything, there will always be a bottle of the speaker's whiskey signed by Mr.

Hoyle and, party leaders as

Andy: Exactly.

It's This apparently is a tradition which dates back to the nineties, so I'm

Adam: not,

Ian: gonna be

Andy: it's the The 1990s, I'm afraid.

last one on parliamentary whiskey.

Adam: Who

Ian: who knew you could

Adam: three questions outta

Andy: it on hard to find.

whiskey.com, great website, who is the only former mainstream party leader, for whom a bottle of signed whiskey can be yours for under 400 quid.

There's only one.

Everyone.

Everyone else's is 399 99.

This one is a hundred quid less.

Adam: Said Heath.

Helen: trees may

Andy: Right party.

No, he doesn't have one.

Actually.

He's, I know

Ian: drink

Helen: Boris Johnson.

Andy: No.

Okay.

I think we're

Helen: out.

David Cameron.

Andy: Michael.

Howard he's, you can get a bottle of Michael Howard signed whiskey for 300 quid bargain.

have

Adam: as something of the night.

Helen: Oh, very good.

Should have done this before Father's Day, shouldn't we?

Andy: Everyone else's.

I'm, talking David Cameron, John Major William Hague.

Patty Ashdown, a joint one by Ed Mall.

Ed Balls and Ed Miller Band.

400 quid.

There you go.

Adam: That's considerably less than the private eye whiskey, which does exist was created for our 30th anniversary, wasn't it?

There's a special bottle of Macallan, which is worth an enormous amount of money.

Now, you're looking, you, drank yours, didn't you?

When you got presented with it, there are people working downstairs who have retained their bottle

Ian: is it illustrated by McLaughlin?

Is there a.

Adam: think it's a Gerald scarf

Ian: It's a Gerald scarf.

Helen: Oh, that's classy.

Andy: So if you're listening to this and you've got one of those bottles, do not open it,

Ian: is what you're saying.

Just send

Adam: it to us and we will dispose of it safely.

Andy: we're off the whiskey ones now.

You'll be relieved to hear.

next up, Nigel Farage of Reform uk.

in, I believe January this year, he made a video for We Save.

Telling people that, they could save money by buying nappies in bulk.

Now, he wasn't actually paid for that, that video or for any of the commercial involvement with We Safe, .

But how many hours a week does Mr.

Farra spend on his other jobs and which one pays best proportionally per hour.

Helen: I reckon his investment newsletter pays quite well.

His GB news gig paid pretty well.

Adam: He does loads and loads of those cameo videos.

Yeah, he gets a lot for those.

He gets money off Twitter as well, doesn't he?

A lot of the

Helen: About seven grand a month.

Yeah.

Adam: Twitter.

Andy: gonna need some answers.

Helen: I'm gonna say he spends 25 hours a week on other stuff.

Andy: Okay.

Ian: 40

Andy: full time job.

Helen's closest she gets another point is 22 hours.

.And, I'll tell you the best paid job he has outside his parliamentary work, in fact, including that, is selling gold as a tax free investment for direct bullion.

and that earns him roughly 32,000 pounds a month for four hours of work.

So to close, that's 8,000 pounds an hour.

Ian: Gold is the best investment, isn't it?

Andy: okay.

Now here, each of you will, once you've.

Answered.

You don't get to guess again.

So be careful and it's a long question.

Which right wing politician took part in I'm a celebrity, get Me Out of Here, was voted out very quickly in 2008 and their appearance provoked irritation from fellow parliamentarians.

plus it led to clashes in the camp with Joe Swash.

Timmy Mallet.

This was a former leader of pp.

Ian: it was, The orange bloke.

with the

Helen: Kroy silk.

Robert Do you know what?

I'm so glad you gave us the thing that we had to wait.

'cause I was, going It's gonna be Nadine.

It's gonna be Nadine.

And then I was like, maybe it's, then it's Matt Hancock.

Maybe it's Matt Hancock.

Ke

Adam: I was thinking KE or Dugdale.

No one remembers KE or Dugdale.

I'll get this

Andy: none of you

Helen: you took in.

No, that's, we waited for Robert KA second.

It was worthwhile.

Absolutely.

Andy: Yes.

he

Helen: in ghosts.

Just putting it out there.

Andy: He was an MEP at the time and one of his fellow meps said, we are in serious times and people expect their politicians to do a job of work.

And you can't do that if you're in the jungle.

Covered in cockroaches, eating kangaroos testicles, and swimming with crocodiles

Adam: That was a hell of a challenge doing all of those

Helen: at once, wasn't

Adam: it?

They're not normally,

Helen: Nigel Frost did very well.

Actually.

I thought he, there's a bit when they did Camp Karaoke and he sang, I'm Too Sexy By Right Said Fred, which I believe to be his party piece that he's also done on GB News.

Far

Ian: right.

Said Fred to

Helen: Hey.

Andy: Yay.

KIRO.

So incidentally was voted off first and then claimed the show had been badly edited.

and I'm afraid to say, tragically, this even spilled over into the Wags camp, where Jan Kilroy Silk had some harsh words for Linda Mallet.

Ian: Wow.

Andy: We go again.

slightly more recently.

David TC Davies, former Welsh secretary, has not got a job yet, or he hadn't as of a few months ago after leaving Parliament.

What did he blame for the fact he hadn't got a job yet?

Helen: Was it anti Tory bias?

Andy: It's not anti Tory bias.

That has been a, that's a complaint.

Jonathan GLIs has said that he can't get work, for example, as a teacher,

Adam: was it anti Welsh bias?

Andy: It wasn't anti Welsh bias.

Was

Ian: anti politician bias?

They hate all of us.

Andy: It's actually

Helen: people kept

Adam: he keep turn

Helen: the other David?

Adam: kept turning.

go,

Andy: David Davis?

Adam: What

Andy: No, what this is, it's actually anti-human bias.

So he doesn't have a degree.

Just that's not how his career started out.

He thinks that automatic CV reading software has ruled him outta the running because you just plug a sea visa into a computer, it just tells you, You can rule out these people immediately.

These are the remaining candidates you, might wanna hire.

I just like this a lot.

He, did get an application form for one of the jobs he was applying for, and he says this, he says it asked him, name of last line manager.

I answered Richie Soak job title of last night, line manager.

I put Prime Minister of the United Kingdom telephone number of line manager.

He said, I have Richie's number, but I wasn't gonna put it in the box.

And he got rejected from that.

You're all doing very well, by the way.

which former Prime Minister's TV appearance was what was voted one of the most awkward moments of television ever by channel four.

Adam: So this is after they were Prime Minister?

Andy: it's a presenting gig that a former PM

Adam: took.

Oh, I know this one.

Of course, I know this one.

It's Har Wilson presenting.

Saturday night and Sunday morning, isn't it?

Andy: night and Saturday

Adam: Sorry.

I'm, yeah,

Andy: Adam.

I, did throw in coupled with the clash there.

I throw in a 1970s one just for

Helen: yeah, I know,

Adam: let's

Helen: That's just, that's blatant favoritism time.

Andy: He apparently just couldn't do it.

He just couldn't host a, it was too un informal.

Too unscripted.

And he couldn't, roll with it.

Adam: stages of Alzheimer's, to be fair to the poor man.

Ian: I always remember it's always bracketed with, Peter Cook who ran a chat show and then gave it up and he was asked, why did you give it up?

And he said, I just wasn't very interested in other people, which is a more honest reply.

Andy: which former conservative minister has in the last year or so, earned nearly their MP's salary again for just two speeches.

It's not an obvious one.

Ian: two speeches.

Andy: Yeah.

Helen: Not big gove,

Andy: not gover.

Ian: Is it quasi Quaye?

Andy: It's not quasi Quaye, Adam.

Adam: I can't even remember any other reason to ministers

Andy: Sue b Suela Braman.

This is an interesting thing from the register of members' interest, and I found it after Labouriously plowing through all extra employment, so you've gotta hear it now too.

I'm afraid.

She has just been paid 29,000 pounds by chosen Media, a South Korean media organization, and last year it was 35,000 pounds, including flights and accommodation, full speaking at one conference.

Helen: Do you think they put the decimal place in the wrong

Andy: all?

Paris?

Helen: they were just too embarrassed to go back and I'm so sorry.

Andy: It'll be a currency thing.

Anyway, I just thought that was quite interesting that she's a huge darling of the, south Korean media and politics circuit.

Practic

Helen: a K popper.

Andy: Final one.

this one is really hard.

Which MP would you want with you if you had been on a ship which sank near a desert island and you'd been injured in the process?

Who is that mp?

Helen: So you want someone who's a doctor but maybe had been a doctor at sea

Adam: can swim really well,

Ian: Is this ever or current?

Current.

So I can't say John Prescott.

'cause he'd serve you a gen tonic and you'd feel better.

Who was the woman who was on Splash?

Helen: Penny

Adam: Oh, penny Morden.

She'd be good at falling off the boat in the first place.

I know the skills are

Helen: Transfer.

Adam: that.

Andy: she's a strong swimmer though.

She could tow you to shore.

Helen: sho.

Yeah,

Andy: I think that's a really good

Helen: she was like a naval

Adam: and she would fight, for survival afterwards,

Andy: I think that's a, I think that's a point to Ian because it's not the answer I've got, but I think it technically qualifies as a good one.

Adam: oh, let's give a point to the boss.

Andy.

Yes.

Helen: he gave you a question about the 1970s.

Okay.

Adam: fair

Andy: You've all been pandered to disgracefully.

Don't abuse it.

Andrew Morrison.

South Wilshire is a surgeon commander, which is the coolest job I've found in the entire register of members.

Interest surgeon, but also in Naval Reserve and has done tools of duty and things like that.

I just think that's an interesting, you got a lot of people who've got rather drab consultancy jobs and I think Surgeon Commander is quite a good one.

Adam: Does that mean he can get called up and he'd have to take time off Parliament?

'cause he'd have to go and.

Andy: theoretically,

Helen: James Cleverly is in a similar situation, was reservist for a long time.

Andy: Oh really?

Steve Baker, of course, constantly ready for the SAS.

Should they

Helen: catamaran sailing.

Ian: Do you think, Trump will end up listening to this podcast and thinking Surgeon Commander?

Andy: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah, I could do that.

Andy: That's it.

Yeah.

congratulations.

Alan,

Helen: I love a quiz when I win, but I, don't, when I don't.

It's funny how that works out.

Andy: How are you gonna spend the winnings?

Helen: I'll buy a cameo from Nija Farage,

Ian: congratulating

Helen: private ion all its great work.

Andy: Can you buy a cameo from Nigel Raj asking him to provide some properly costed policies?

Helen: Yes.

That's how we'll get some property cost of policies from reform.

I'll pay for them in 75 quid increments.

Andy: thank you very much for playing at home.

If you have been, thank you to Sarai.

Familiar thank you to Helen, Ian and Adam, and thank you to Matt Hill of Rethink Audio for producing.

As always, if you would like more.

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