1 00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:03,110 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:04,630 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,870 In this episode, you will hear part one of my conversation with Clea Ramos, a 4 00:00:09,870 --> 00:00:14,330 student studying Computer Engineering and Studio Arts at Bucknell University. 5 00:00:15,309 --> 00:00:19,079 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 6 00:00:19,089 --> 00:00:21,029 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 7 00:00:21,509 --> 00:00:24,770 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 8 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:26,670 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 9 00:00:28,189 --> 00:00:30,679 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,170 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 11 00:00:32,975 --> 00:00:38,665 My guest today is Clea Ramos, a student studying computer engineering and 12 00:00:38,665 --> 00:00:41,015 studio art at Bucknell University. 13 00:00:41,285 --> 00:00:41,975 Hello, Clea. 14 00:00:42,624 --> 00:00:42,974 Hello. 15 00:00:42,984 --> 00:00:43,764 It's nice to meet you. 16 00:00:43,775 --> 00:00:44,974 Thank you for having me. 17 00:00:45,394 --> 00:00:47,244 I am so happy that you're here. 18 00:00:47,595 --> 00:00:52,155 Um, I have been, uh, working with and collaborating with your, one of your 19 00:00:52,155 --> 00:00:57,475 professors, uh, Rebecca Thomas, who is actually also a, um, prior Digication 20 00:00:57,494 --> 00:00:59,414 Scholars Conversations guests. 21 00:00:59,785 --> 00:01:06,650 Um, and we often talk about you know, the, the, the kind of, um, pedagogical, 22 00:01:06,730 --> 00:01:10,960 uh, approach that she has, you know, for her students and then some, and, 23 00:01:10,990 --> 00:01:14,280 and which we both admire, but then, you know, sometimes you talk about 24 00:01:14,350 --> 00:01:18,109 who are some of your students that are doing really great work and she had, I 25 00:01:18,109 --> 00:01:23,080 feel very grateful that she had shared three portfolios that you have created. 26 00:01:23,470 --> 00:01:25,720 Um, I, I saw them. 27 00:01:25,750 --> 00:01:32,950 I. You know, I, I read them and, uh, I was so inspired and I said, Hey, 28 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,330 um, Rebecca, would you mind if, can we have her on the Digication Scholars? 29 00:01:38,350 --> 00:01:40,499 And that's how this came to be. 30 00:01:40,770 --> 00:01:43,980 And thank you for, you know, making yourself available. 31 00:01:44,149 --> 00:01:46,100 So you are a senior. 32 00:01:46,530 --> 00:01:46,820 Yes. 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,040 Um, so are you majoring both in computer engineering and studio arts? 34 00:01:52,490 --> 00:01:57,130 I am majoring in computer engineering and because I've always taken art in 35 00:01:57,399 --> 00:02:00,769 elementary school and high school, I wanted to pursue arts, especially at a 36 00:02:00,769 --> 00:02:02,679 Liberal Arts Institution at Bucknell. 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,250 I was able to take, uh, five art classes, so I'm minoring in studio art, 38 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:10,509 mostly focusing on the digital arts. 39 00:02:11,190 --> 00:02:11,800 That's awesome. 40 00:02:12,010 --> 00:02:13,480 So tell me a little bit about yourself. 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,910 I. I, I want to say that you, um, you, you have a connection 42 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:19,560 with, you, are you a Filipino? 43 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,620 Maybe you have families from the Philippines. 44 00:02:21,620 --> 00:02:22,329 Is that correct? 45 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:22,859 Yeah. 46 00:02:22,859 --> 00:02:27,239 So my parents are immigrants, um, and I'm a first generation student. 47 00:02:27,239 --> 00:02:30,710 So I grew up in Stanford, Connecticut and went to school there. 48 00:02:31,010 --> 00:02:33,229 And um, I'm now at Bucknell University. 49 00:02:33,229 --> 00:02:38,070 So I, uh, really pride myself on being Filipino and even at Bucknell, I'm a part 50 00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:40,900 of the Filipino student association here. 51 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:44,720 And so you're, you're parents are immigrants, you're a first gen, you 52 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,100 know, U. S., you know, you grew up, you, you said you were born here? 53 00:02:48,250 --> 00:02:49,349 Yes, I was born here. 54 00:02:49,399 --> 00:02:52,980 And, um, what was that experience like for you? 55 00:02:53,489 --> 00:02:58,700 Yeah, so, uh, elementary school, I have an older brother, we went to a small private 56 00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:02,489 school called Waterside School and it was a school that prioritized minorities. 57 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:05,799 So I grew up in a really tight knit community where everyone knew each 58 00:03:05,799 --> 00:03:10,600 other and that school, um, helped minority and people of culture go 59 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:14,350 into a really good private schools for middle school and high school. 60 00:03:14,350 --> 00:03:17,899 So then I went on to Greenwich Academy and my brother went on 61 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:19,660 to its brother school, Brunswick. 62 00:03:19,660 --> 00:03:21,940 So we both grew up going to that environment. 63 00:03:21,950 --> 00:03:25,390 And there I was able to learn more about, um. 64 00:03:25,825 --> 00:03:30,665 Engineering and art and where I found my passions there and then since then, 65 00:03:30,874 --> 00:03:36,344 from my high school to Bucknell, um, because those, my high school and 66 00:03:36,344 --> 00:03:40,284 Bucknell are predominantly white, I really wanted to stay in touch with 67 00:03:40,314 --> 00:03:44,049 the cultural side because I grew up with that in my elementary school. 68 00:03:44,049 --> 00:03:48,559 So me and a few friends at Bucknell came together and we saw Asian 69 00:03:48,559 --> 00:03:52,049 galas happening, all of these events happening with all their culturals 70 00:03:52,089 --> 00:03:53,640 and we wanted to participate. 71 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:59,299 So we created, um, the Philippine student association and we have, uh, bi-weekly 72 00:03:59,319 --> 00:04:04,780 meetings where we help, um, advocate for Filipino culture and have fun events. 73 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,660 And we're participating in an Asian gala soon. 74 00:04:08,434 --> 00:04:09,334 That is awesome. 75 00:04:10,025 --> 00:04:13,635 I am a huge, huge fan of Filipino foods. 76 00:04:13,734 --> 00:04:14,325 Yes. 77 00:04:15,035 --> 00:04:15,815 What is your favorite? 78 00:04:15,815 --> 00:04:16,584 Chicken adobo. 79 00:04:16,704 --> 00:04:18,534 Yes, I do love chicken adobo. 80 00:04:18,555 --> 00:04:19,805 My favorite is sinigang. 81 00:04:19,805 --> 00:04:20,784 It's a sour soup. 82 00:04:20,825 --> 00:04:21,685 Yes, I know that. 83 00:04:21,685 --> 00:04:22,644 Yeah, I love it. 84 00:04:22,644 --> 00:04:22,974 Yeah. 85 00:04:23,654 --> 00:04:24,355 That's awesome. 86 00:04:25,275 --> 00:04:29,295 I myself from, um, grew up in Hong Kong and then I moved here. 87 00:04:29,615 --> 00:04:34,425 So like this, I am the first gen, you know, immigrants in my family, 88 00:04:34,435 --> 00:04:36,315 first gen college attendee as well. 89 00:04:36,555 --> 00:04:43,425 So I really love that you are taking that culture, um, that you are so 90 00:04:43,435 --> 00:04:46,250 proud of and making something of it. 91 00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:49,040 I think that's, that's really, that's really amazing. 92 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,800 I would say that one of the things that I was so drawn by your work 93 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,200 and your portfolio is, is that you do a lot of reflections. 94 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,989 The portfolios I saw. 95 00:05:01,735 --> 00:05:04,675 Um, I know that you, you have those portfolios and then you have another 96 00:05:04,675 --> 00:05:07,855 portfolio that linked to a notion site. 97 00:05:08,055 --> 00:05:10,505 Um, that is your art portfolio as well. 98 00:05:10,885 --> 00:05:14,965 Um, it's amazing to see all of these different, you know, linkages, you know, 99 00:05:14,965 --> 00:05:20,520 everywhere, um, one of the things that I was, you know, after seeing all three 100 00:05:20,530 --> 00:05:24,250 of your portfolios, I really flicked through every page, by the way, um, I 101 00:05:24,250 --> 00:05:32,660 read, I read all of it and, um, what's really the consistent sense of, you know, 102 00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:35,580 what you do to reflect on your learning. 103 00:05:36,269 --> 00:05:39,159 I remember so vividly that. 104 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:45,039 In one of your projects, it was about provide a way to, to 105 00:05:45,050 --> 00:05:46,750 monitor the health of water. 106 00:05:47,370 --> 00:05:48,280 Um, right. 107 00:05:48,490 --> 00:05:52,539 And in some of your finding at the end, you go, well, you know, 108 00:05:52,549 --> 00:05:54,680 like we have some limitations in. 109 00:05:55,599 --> 00:05:59,490 The hardware that we have available to us and, and the technology and 110 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:02,570 so on, but you were able to, you, you learned quite a bit from it. 111 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,099 Um, but those things that you learn that I thought were the most interesting were 112 00:06:08,109 --> 00:06:11,460 things like iterative design process. 113 00:06:11,799 --> 00:06:16,100 Um, how you communicate, um, how are you as a leader? 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,670 How do you do time management? 115 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,630 How do you think about collaboration? 116 00:06:20,210 --> 00:06:24,090 And yes, you also have the experience of dealing, you know, 117 00:06:24,099 --> 00:06:26,090 learning the technical skills of. 118 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:30,999 Working with the limitations of the, the, the technology that you 119 00:06:30,999 --> 00:06:32,719 had available to you at the time. 120 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,599 But those are the kinds of things like the microcontroller system, you know? 121 00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:36,830 Yeah. 122 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:41,419 But those are the kinds of things that, um, in many ways, that's the thing that is 123 00:06:41,419 --> 00:06:43,489 going to continue to change very quickly. 124 00:06:43,809 --> 00:06:48,590 In fact, I bet you that if you were doing the project this, this spring again. 125 00:06:48,930 --> 00:06:50,070 It's already different, right? 126 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:53,260 Because there will be a better microcontroller. 127 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:55,270 There will be a better circuit board. 128 00:06:55,270 --> 00:06:59,120 There will be a better set of technologies available to you, right? 129 00:06:59,180 --> 00:07:00,810 And maybe the condition would have changed. 130 00:07:00,810 --> 00:07:03,230 You would work with different people, right? 131 00:07:03,239 --> 00:07:10,469 But it's all of those skills that is about, um, you know, your own learning 132 00:07:10,469 --> 00:07:17,525 process that feels like is, Is one that is constantly built one after on top of the 133 00:07:17,525 --> 00:07:23,905 other, like that to me is what I got out of, like, after reading these portfolios. 134 00:07:24,615 --> 00:07:25,805 What do you think about that? 135 00:07:26,325 --> 00:07:26,775 Yes. 136 00:07:26,795 --> 00:07:32,515 So I remember coming in my freshman year, spring semester, when I had my first 137 00:07:32,515 --> 00:07:36,775 ECEG - Electrical and Computer Engineering course with Professor Rebecca Thomas. 138 00:07:37,104 --> 00:07:44,045 And throughout that whole semester, we were tasked to create a, uh, ePortfolios. 139 00:07:44,105 --> 00:07:46,165 I think that was probably the first year it launched at 140 00:07:46,165 --> 00:07:47,645 Bucknell, so we were all new to it. 141 00:07:47,925 --> 00:07:50,135 So we were wondering, oh, what do we put on here? 142 00:07:50,135 --> 00:07:53,645 We're not too familiar how it works, but we worked on it since 143 00:07:53,645 --> 00:07:57,145 the beginning of the semester and built on it, um, every few weeks. 144 00:07:57,384 --> 00:08:02,244 And it corresponded to writing down what we wanted to do as a career 145 00:08:02,274 --> 00:08:05,834 and finding someone to interview on a career we're interested in. 146 00:08:05,834 --> 00:08:09,485 And through that process, like, Um, looking at, uh, research 147 00:08:09,505 --> 00:08:12,985 videos, research articles and reflecting on what we want to do. 148 00:08:13,005 --> 00:08:16,254 And I think that was the first time I've reflected like that 149 00:08:16,284 --> 00:08:18,135 in an engineering context. 150 00:08:18,485 --> 00:08:22,045 So from there, that was the first ePortfolio I've done. 151 00:08:22,045 --> 00:08:29,414 And at the end I had a record of, um, how I thought about my careers and my interest 152 00:08:29,425 --> 00:08:32,265 and how that applied to what I value. 153 00:08:32,265 --> 00:08:34,534 So I valued doing something creative. 154 00:08:34,534 --> 00:08:37,974 I value being able to do both technical and art. 155 00:08:37,995 --> 00:08:41,574 And that reflection process is something that you typically don't get in 156 00:08:41,584 --> 00:08:46,265 other STEM classes, such as math or more technical engineering classes. 157 00:08:46,564 --> 00:08:51,605 So I find it a very valuable skill, especially as I moved on to higher level 158 00:08:51,605 --> 00:08:55,185 engineering classes where you're still doing technical work, but sometimes it's 159 00:08:55,185 --> 00:08:59,814 too technical to the point where you don't realize the bigger context of it and 160 00:08:59,814 --> 00:09:02,635 how it fits in with real world problems. 161 00:09:02,645 --> 00:09:06,354 So, the ePortfolio that you were mentioning in that project, the 162 00:09:06,545 --> 00:09:10,844 water monitoring system was for my junior design, um, electrical 163 00:09:10,845 --> 00:09:14,255 engineering and computer engineering course, uh, last spring. 164 00:09:14,735 --> 00:09:16,564 So, the problem are. 165 00:09:16,885 --> 00:09:21,405 Professors gave for us was to choose one of the U. N. Sustainability goals 166 00:09:21,445 --> 00:09:27,184 to create a potential solution for and our class chose the problem of providing 167 00:09:27,184 --> 00:09:29,294 clean water and sanitation to all. 168 00:09:29,655 --> 00:09:33,725 So the first half of the course wasn't actually making a technical solution. 169 00:09:33,734 --> 00:09:38,475 The first part is reflecting on the bigger problem and the context as a 170 00:09:38,475 --> 00:09:43,285 whole, identifying the stakeholders, the people involved, um, any 171 00:09:43,285 --> 00:09:46,284 electrical, um, processes involved. 172 00:09:46,574 --> 00:09:52,564 So that course, that part of the course, um, was really valuable to see how. 173 00:09:53,345 --> 00:09:56,115 You can reflect and not only focus on the technical, but 174 00:09:56,115 --> 00:09:58,205 that real, real world aspect. 175 00:09:58,475 --> 00:10:02,934 And still today, I feel like I have a more, um, holistic view of how to 176 00:10:02,935 --> 00:10:07,855 approach problems because of that reflection process in engineering 177 00:10:07,855 --> 00:10:11,744 and that I, I see, I asked my other friends and other majors like mechanical 178 00:10:11,744 --> 00:10:13,434 engineering or chemical engineering. 179 00:10:13,704 --> 00:10:18,375 They don't really have as much of a, um, design track or a reflection 180 00:10:18,375 --> 00:10:22,345 process as ECEG does, uh, ECEG being Electrical and Computer Engineering. 181 00:10:22,355 --> 00:10:27,554 So I'm grateful how, for how much I've been able to reflect and show that in 182 00:10:27,554 --> 00:10:31,684 my ePortfolios because I can always look back and not only see that technical 183 00:10:31,684 --> 00:10:35,785 progress, but also that reflecting process of where did I get stuck? 184 00:10:35,785 --> 00:10:36,865 How did I improve? 185 00:10:36,895 --> 00:10:39,935 And then what really matters is how do I improve in the future too? 186 00:10:39,935 --> 00:10:41,205 And what do I make of this? 187 00:10:41,225 --> 00:10:43,265 What do I take from it going forward? 188 00:10:43,795 --> 00:10:48,604 I was thinking about, I saw, I, one of the things that I read that it was so 189 00:10:48,604 --> 00:10:53,515 interesting because I heard the same stories as well, which was, I think 190 00:10:53,525 --> 00:10:58,645 you were saying something about, you know, your parents had told me of their 191 00:10:58,645 --> 00:11:04,374 process of fetching water, you know, from wells and having to walk and, you 192 00:11:04,374 --> 00:11:06,134 know, like they basically have to walk. 193 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,910 You know, through like, it's terrible is through hills and, and, and, 194 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:15,879 and, and bad weather conditions and whatnot, just to get water so that 195 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,630 you can bring back fetch water. 196 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:25,729 And my, my parents were, oh, my, my dad, his family, his family 197 00:11:25,729 --> 00:11:28,260 were refugees from, from China. 198 00:11:29,115 --> 00:11:35,545 During world war two and, um, they, they didn't have that water fetching 199 00:11:35,564 --> 00:11:38,344 thing because they were living in Hong Kong, which is, you know, 200 00:11:38,345 --> 00:11:42,715 sort of a pretty dense city, but oftentimes they will run out of water. 201 00:11:42,775 --> 00:11:46,055 And so everyone has to go get in line to get water. 202 00:11:46,465 --> 00:11:48,234 And I remember him. 203 00:11:49,564 --> 00:11:53,074 Telling me that, you know, like, sometimes they don't even have the 204 00:11:53,074 --> 00:11:54,685 instruments to carry the water. 205 00:11:54,994 --> 00:12:00,055 So they just take plastic, like grocery bags, like plastic bags, just take water. 206 00:12:00,334 --> 00:12:05,134 And sometimes they break after you get in line for hours and then get to it. 207 00:12:05,134 --> 00:12:07,945 And then you're like, hopefully the plastic bag hold up and 208 00:12:07,945 --> 00:12:09,685 then they can bring it home. 209 00:12:09,745 --> 00:12:12,714 And, and to be honest, once you get home, what do you do with it? 210 00:12:12,745 --> 00:12:14,589 You know, hold on to it. 211 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:17,730 A collapsible plastic bag, you know what I mean? 212 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,540 So I'm like hearing these stories and, and I could, I remember reading that 213 00:12:22,540 --> 00:12:28,179 part and I'm thinking, you know, there is something that you can take that 214 00:12:28,179 --> 00:12:33,239 experience that is so, even though you didn't, it came from your culture, it 215 00:12:33,239 --> 00:12:37,479 came from, you know, like stories that you were able to get from your parents. 216 00:12:37,539 --> 00:12:40,189 Uh, it probably means something a little bit different to you than to, 217 00:12:40,515 --> 00:12:45,365 To others, you know, and it creates a different set of meaning to, to the work. 218 00:12:45,375 --> 00:12:50,194 And I, I think that these are the types of things that create sort of a sense 219 00:12:50,194 --> 00:12:57,135 of like purpose that drives the project that drives it differently from then. 220 00:12:57,204 --> 00:13:02,444 If your professor just gave you, here's the problem, go solve it. 221 00:13:03,405 --> 00:13:03,694 Yes. 222 00:13:03,964 --> 00:13:08,625 You, you made this connection that goes, man, like. 223 00:13:10,130 --> 00:13:15,110 Like, it's not just a problem to solve, but it's so critical because I can't 224 00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:21,220 imagine going through life without that, without access to water and that 225 00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:25,169 the alternative is to do that, like, that's not a good way to live, right? 226 00:13:25,625 --> 00:13:28,705 Um, so it changes the way that you approach it, doesn't it? 227 00:13:28,915 --> 00:13:34,485 It creates more value because, because you reflect on why this matters. 228 00:13:34,635 --> 00:13:37,715 You're not doing it just for a class, just to get a grade. 229 00:13:37,715 --> 00:13:41,404 You're doing it for the people who are in need, the people who don't have access 230 00:13:41,405 --> 00:13:43,714 to this technology, to this clean water. 231 00:13:44,004 --> 00:13:47,495 And that's why it's so important in the beginning to reflect on 232 00:13:47,495 --> 00:13:52,035 who are the stakeholders and who does this project affect, because. 233 00:13:52,340 --> 00:13:56,130 That is where you get that value for the project. 234 00:13:56,140 --> 00:14:02,020 And sometime, one thing we did think about was that our system required wifi 235 00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:06,699 because we wanted to push it to ThingSpeak or, um, an online service where you can 236 00:14:06,699 --> 00:14:09,109 read the data of how clean your water is. 237 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:15,490 And we were also wondering, Oh, we wanted to place these devices in, um 238 00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:20,575 developing countries or people like, yeah, just developing countries. 239 00:14:20,575 --> 00:14:24,575 So we were wondering, Oh, do all of those places have access to wifi? 240 00:14:24,584 --> 00:14:30,205 So it's also being considerate of the realistic resources that are available. 241 00:14:30,385 --> 00:14:33,845 So we weren't able to interview anyone from the places that we 242 00:14:34,044 --> 00:14:37,685 wanted to, potentially, per the project, but that's also important 243 00:14:37,685 --> 00:14:43,605 getting real world, um, resources and having that connection to who you're 244 00:14:43,605 --> 00:14:45,455 actually creating the product for. 245 00:14:46,404 --> 00:14:52,064 And I, I think that there is something maybe even, I want to go 246 00:14:52,065 --> 00:14:55,085 like a little bit more meta on this. 247 00:14:55,735 --> 00:15:02,720 Um, I feel like that, you know, you have learned in that particular, oh, we 248 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,380 can pick this particular case, right? 249 00:15:04,390 --> 00:15:10,010 Like you, you have this water project anyway, and then you were able to, to, 250 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:17,410 to give it more purpose by empathetically placing yourself in people's shoes, 251 00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:18,620 because these are your parents. 252 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,130 Literal shoes and how they, that had to walk through, you know, you know, 253 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,719 like, you know, the streets and the, you know, difficult conditions to 254 00:15:27,719 --> 00:15:29,410 even just to get access to water. 255 00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:32,210 That's how it would, what it would be like if you don't have this. 256 00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:32,480 Right. 257 00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:39,420 So I think that this idea that, um, yeah, finding purpose and drive to it is, 258 00:15:39,490 --> 00:15:44,800 is, is important, you know, but I also would point out one more thing, which. 259 00:15:45,694 --> 00:15:51,994 I, I'm very interested in how students are finding new paths as they create their 260 00:15:51,994 --> 00:15:55,104 neural pathways and how they think about the world and make sense of the world. 261 00:15:56,415 --> 00:16:06,880 So in your case, there is also an abstracted path that sets If I come 262 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:12,060 across a new problem or a new thing that I want to solve in life or a new 263 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:18,760 way to think about the world, I can look into real world situation, people 264 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:24,529 I know, people, you know, um, things that I've experienced and use that 265 00:16:24,989 --> 00:16:31,840 as a way to inform how I might drive, how to answer that question, right? 266 00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:36,080 So it's one layer more abstracted than just saying, Oh, I know in 267 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,990 terms of water, this is the answer. 268 00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:39,755 And I get that. 269 00:16:39,805 --> 00:16:42,765 And I think everyone who'd be listening would be like, Oh, wow. 270 00:16:42,765 --> 00:16:43,235 Yeah. 271 00:16:43,395 --> 00:16:46,205 Like some listeners may identify with that. 272 00:16:46,205 --> 00:16:48,055 Some would go this first time I ever heard of it. 273 00:16:48,705 --> 00:16:52,685 As far as I know in the whole world, you turn on the tab and there comes water. 274 00:16:52,764 --> 00:16:53,104 Right. 275 00:16:53,555 --> 00:16:57,144 Um, and then there are people, by the way, that has taken that for granted 276 00:16:57,144 --> 00:16:58,895 and didn't realize it in this city. 277 00:16:59,380 --> 00:16:59,520 Right? 278 00:16:59,530 --> 00:17:01,770 If you think about Flint in Michigan, right? 279 00:17:01,850 --> 00:17:04,060 Yeah, we did that, but the water wasn't safe. 280 00:17:04,579 --> 00:17:04,780 Right? 281 00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:08,709 So everyone has different stories and they can, you can take that, but it's the 282 00:17:08,709 --> 00:17:15,200 idea that you are, you have now created a new path that says, I'm going to be able 283 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,300 to take other experiences that I've had and then make these kinds of connections. 284 00:17:20,950 --> 00:17:26,805 So to me, that is one layer, a more sophisticated Like two layers, more 285 00:17:26,805 --> 00:17:33,245 sophisticated than just someone said, here's a project, solve it, right? 286 00:17:33,455 --> 00:17:38,085 Here's a bunch of water, find a way to wirelessly, I don't know, 287 00:17:38,375 --> 00:17:43,045 detect is contaminant or, you know, whether it's safe to drink. 288 00:17:43,115 --> 00:17:47,305 And I think it's also trying to put yourself in the shoes of the people who 289 00:17:47,305 --> 00:17:51,205 are going through this problem because like The empathy and the relationship. 290 00:17:51,225 --> 00:17:52,545 Yeah, right. 291 00:17:52,545 --> 00:17:52,805 Yeah. 292 00:17:53,304 --> 00:17:58,824 Because one of the things that I think we can all work on here at Bucknell and, 293 00:17:58,875 --> 00:18:03,024 and under engineering projects is that empathy and just being considerate of 294 00:18:03,024 --> 00:18:08,274 who we're making these projects for and how are we designing for, for them, not 295 00:18:08,274 --> 00:18:15,165 just so it works and it's functional, but to prioritize, um, the value it creates. 296 00:18:15,665 --> 00:18:20,280 That's something that I really admire about Bucknell, being It has a very 297 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:27,730 strong engineering program and you're very brilliant professors who've, you 298 00:18:27,730 --> 00:18:34,640 know, who are very accomplished, but at the same time, there is a, a very, um, 299 00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:39,629 equally strong liberal arts, um, focus. 300 00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:42,409 I want to talk a little bit about that. 301 00:18:42,639 --> 00:18:49,719 Like I, I'd imagine that you have the choice and also probably the ability, 302 00:18:49,729 --> 00:18:56,619 you know, to go to schools that are more purely engineering focused, more 303 00:18:56,619 --> 00:19:02,629 technical, um, maybe less like, so the liberal arts, you know, sort of, 304 00:19:02,629 --> 00:19:05,389 uh, influenced, um, institutions. 305 00:19:05,859 --> 00:19:12,470 Why did you choose a place where The liberal art, you can't, you couldn't 306 00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:14,020 just say, I'm going to ignore that. 307 00:19:14,050 --> 00:19:16,280 I'm just going to do the engineering part. 308 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:16,990 Right. 309 00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:19,190 Um, why did you choose that? 310 00:19:19,815 --> 00:19:24,815 Yes, so when I was applying for colleges, um, my senior year, one 311 00:19:25,215 --> 00:19:28,745 class that I took that I was really inspired by was my engineering 312 00:19:28,745 --> 00:19:30,484 and design course in high school. 313 00:19:30,705 --> 00:19:34,735 So that course was 'an intro to engineering' where we learned, uh, to 314 00:19:34,735 --> 00:19:39,975 learn fabrication techniques such as laser cutting, 3D printing, working with 315 00:19:40,065 --> 00:19:42,005 perf boards, bread boards, soldering. 316 00:19:42,685 --> 00:19:45,575 But in addition to all of those technical components, we have 317 00:19:45,575 --> 00:19:46,665 different projects for those. 318 00:19:46,905 --> 00:19:51,975 We also got to do and incorporate artistic style to each one of those projects. 319 00:19:51,975 --> 00:19:58,385 So one of the projects was a synthesizer or kind of a musically electronic device 320 00:19:58,385 --> 00:20:02,094 that would play music when you turn it on, rotate the volume and sound. 321 00:20:02,324 --> 00:20:03,164 And we got to it. 322 00:20:03,550 --> 00:20:04,990 Decorate the enclosure of it. 323 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,780 So I had a really fun time using Adobe Photoshop and illustrator to 324 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,230 create those, um, that enclosure. 325 00:20:11,230 --> 00:20:15,160 So not only was it artistic, it was also technical in that sense. 326 00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:19,739 And because I love that class so much, my teachers and my advisor were 327 00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:21,609 pushing me to go into engineering. 328 00:20:21,610 --> 00:20:25,230 So one of the reasons I chose Bucknell was for its engineering program. 329 00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:29,050 And also as I was searching, I saw Bucknell had a lot of opportunities 330 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:31,120 for the arts, even though it is small. 331 00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:32,409 I did. 332 00:20:32,655 --> 00:20:34,995 I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue arts in college. 333 00:20:34,995 --> 00:20:38,935 I just knew I wanted to do a computer engineering, or I actually came in 334 00:20:38,935 --> 00:20:42,385 as a computer science major because I really enjoyed that problem solving 335 00:20:42,394 --> 00:20:45,485 aspect of code and I knew Bucknell had strong engineering program, 336 00:20:45,925 --> 00:20:47,615 but I came in as computer science. 337 00:20:47,925 --> 00:20:52,304 Um, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do art because I was intimidated by the process 338 00:20:52,304 --> 00:20:56,920 of getting graded by art because sometimes when I'm graded at doesn't feel like 339 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,129 uniquely me and I can do whatever I want, I'm doing it for someone else for a grade. 340 00:21:01,610 --> 00:21:05,460 So I wasn't sure if I wanted to do art, but when I came in to Bucknell, 341 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:09,169 I saw that they had a Res. College Program, Residential Colleges. 342 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:13,539 So you can take a class with the people in your hall for your first semester 343 00:21:13,539 --> 00:21:15,129 and get to know that community. 344 00:21:15,129 --> 00:21:19,050 So I joined the Arts Res College and I got to know those people really 345 00:21:19,050 --> 00:21:20,220 well and they're still friends. 346 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:23,190 I'm still really great friends with them to this day, like a whole 347 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:25,510 floor of us are still friends. 348 00:21:25,829 --> 00:21:30,420 So that community and the size also made Bucknell very appealing because 349 00:21:30,420 --> 00:21:34,495 everyone knows everyone and you have such unique connection to those 350 00:21:34,515 --> 00:21:38,435 people because I also grew up in small environments, small schools. 351 00:21:38,905 --> 00:21:44,385 And I also joined, um, a pre-orientation program with arts folks. 352 00:21:44,395 --> 00:21:47,805 So having that arts was really important to me and I knew at 353 00:21:47,805 --> 00:21:49,805 Bucknell I could achieve both of them. 354 00:21:49,805 --> 00:21:53,225 So after learning more about the engineering program, I switched 355 00:21:53,225 --> 00:21:57,265 from computer science, which is more software based, to computer engineering, 356 00:21:57,265 --> 00:22:01,405 which is a combination of hardware and software, because my engineering 357 00:22:01,405 --> 00:22:06,745 and design course in high school was more, um, electrical component based. 358 00:22:06,754 --> 00:22:09,165 So I knew I wanted to do hands on components. 359 00:22:09,764 --> 00:22:12,465 So that's where the microcontrollers and the sensors come in. 360 00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:17,094 So that's why I came in as then computer engineering. 361 00:22:17,104 --> 00:22:21,440 And then I started, um, pursuing a studio art degree or studio 362 00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,210 art minor in my sophomore year. 363 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:28,390 And since then I've found a really great way to combine my design skills 364 00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:32,569 because I've learned design in an engineering context and design in 365 00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:34,680 an art context and graphic design. 366 00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:39,879 And I find it really interesting the ways that you talk with your clients. 367 00:22:39,879 --> 00:22:43,649 You talk with people that you need to interview for your project, 368 00:22:43,899 --> 00:22:48,149 and then you keep iterating and iterating and going back, fixing 369 00:22:48,620 --> 00:22:51,050 anything, any mistakes to improve it. 370 00:22:51,409 --> 00:22:54,209 And you have this final project, but it's not, nothing is 371 00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:55,879 ever really final in design. 372 00:22:55,889 --> 00:23:00,150 You always keep iterating, you're only limited by time and resources. 373 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,240 So that's why I really love the connection between engineering and 374 00:23:03,250 --> 00:23:05,770 art because of that creation process. 375 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,730 And Bucknell allows me to do that. 376 00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:12,030 So, I'm really glad that I was able to pursue that and hopefully 377 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,640 take these skills to the next opportunity after Bucknell. 378 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:17,010 I love all of this. 379 00:23:17,010 --> 00:23:19,870 And I think that it's so great that you. 380 00:23:20,395 --> 00:23:24,995 You know, through this, all of these opportunities, I think that this idea of 381 00:23:25,095 --> 00:23:30,874 you developing that sense of, you know, what kind of response, I think you wrote 382 00:23:30,874 --> 00:23:34,304 somewhere, I want to be a responsible engineer or something like that. 383 00:23:34,995 --> 00:23:37,274 So I'm going to do that effect, um, is. 384 00:23:37,834 --> 00:23:41,704 Is, is so clear that it comes from this kind of grounding, you know, 385 00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:50,054 I, I will say that, uh, in the, in the 2010s, I lived in Silicon Valley 386 00:23:50,084 --> 00:23:55,614 for about 10 years and, and I will honestly say that I met some really 387 00:23:55,624 --> 00:24:01,694 brilliant engineers, especially software engineers and, um, many of them with 388 00:24:01,735 --> 00:24:07,475 advanced degrees and, and, you know, like feel like that they are certified 389 00:24:07,475 --> 00:24:11,675 geniuses, you know, um, but, but they. 390 00:24:12,625 --> 00:24:20,305 They are so well regarded by the big, you know, seven companies that 391 00:24:20,754 --> 00:24:26,365 rules the, you know, the world of tech, um, that, you know, they get 392 00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:33,434 paid so much money, they get, they get so many perks, um, that it was. 393 00:24:34,405 --> 00:24:38,675 You know, that, that drive or that drive of, I want to be doing something 394 00:24:38,675 --> 00:24:45,695 responsible or helping people and all of that sort of goes into the back burners. 395 00:24:46,135 --> 00:24:54,044 And I, I really do think that there is a responsibility for education institutions 396 00:24:55,214 --> 00:25:02,885 to make sure that that aspect of teaching does not get put into the back 397 00:25:02,885 --> 00:25:06,265 burners or that you do it by having one. 398 00:25:07,135 --> 00:25:09,965 Ethics course and, and call it done. 399 00:25:10,695 --> 00:25:17,895 Um, you know, um, I, I, I think that it's extremely dangerous otherwise, 400 00:25:17,895 --> 00:25:22,955 because then now we have extremely smart people yielding a huge amount of 401 00:25:22,955 --> 00:25:25,495 power and a huge amount of influence. 402 00:25:26,944 --> 00:25:28,774 Don't know what to do, right? 403 00:25:28,794 --> 00:25:30,595 They, they don't, they haven't. 404 00:25:30,635 --> 00:25:34,995 And I think I saw in one of your, um, actually I copied it 405 00:25:34,995 --> 00:25:36,534 because I thought it was so cool. 406 00:25:36,534 --> 00:25:39,975 You had said it was you described in a reflection. 407 00:25:40,575 --> 00:25:43,625 I'm going to read it out because I, I thought it was really cool. 408 00:25:43,635 --> 00:25:44,425 Let me find it. 409 00:25:44,815 --> 00:25:49,635 It says, Throughout Project 2, I learned to develop creative thinking skills, 410 00:25:49,635 --> 00:25:53,925 which was much different from Project 1, as we had a set, clear objective. 411 00:25:54,354 --> 00:25:59,484 But in Project 2, we had to come up with our own questions and exploration paths. 412 00:26:00,024 --> 00:26:02,534 We had to discover ways to solve our own questions. 413 00:26:03,155 --> 00:26:07,705 So, that to me is a really, it's really, it's, it's something that 414 00:26:07,705 --> 00:26:09,785 many, actually many schools don't do. 415 00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:14,185 They don't let people do it because, because they just, 416 00:26:14,194 --> 00:26:15,955 they have too many objectives. 417 00:26:15,965 --> 00:26:17,845 They want to make sure their students get there. 418 00:26:18,035 --> 00:26:21,444 And if you were to ask your own questions, you may not do their objectives, right? 419 00:26:21,934 --> 00:26:22,695 And so. 420 00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:28,270 Just for the sake of, you know, being efficient and make sure that they're 421 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,510 covering all of the checkboxes of things that they want you to cover. 422 00:26:31,940 --> 00:26:35,040 They, they, they, uh, little bit thinking, well, you know, it's better that I 423 00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:36,550 give you the problems, you solve it. 424 00:26:36,639 --> 00:26:39,869 And then we know that you can solve the problem, but you don't get to 425 00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:44,080 ask the questions, like you said, if you are always going to be very 426 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,870 good at solving problems, so I've, I've met a lot of people who. 427 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:51,130 are brilliant at solving problems. 428 00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:55,100 In fact, you, you mention anything and they're like, I will solve it for you. 429 00:26:56,050 --> 00:26:58,690 Whether you want them to solve it for you or not. 430 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:06,640 Um, but if you ask them, you know, what do you want to do, um, 431 00:27:06,729 --> 00:27:08,110 they have a very difficult time. 432 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:11,965 Because it's almost like, They were never given a choice and to give any 433 00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:14,625 experience to, to be good at that. 434 00:27:15,044 --> 00:27:21,235 And I find that being able to ask questions is, um, it should be 435 00:27:21,445 --> 00:27:24,705 pretty much, you know, as important as being able to answer them. 436 00:27:25,175 --> 00:27:25,534 Yes. 437 00:27:25,974 --> 00:27:30,494 But if we focus so much on being able to answer the questions and we're 438 00:27:30,494 --> 00:27:34,624 not allowed to ask, like be the one asking the questions, it's difficult. 439 00:27:34,675 --> 00:27:38,725 And I think that, you know, Education, if we look through 440 00:27:38,725 --> 00:27:43,945 even our, it sounds like you had a wonderful K 12, you know, experience. 441 00:27:44,195 --> 00:27:48,264 But if we look at most curriculum in general, at least traditional 442 00:27:48,285 --> 00:27:52,444 curriculum, um, at least I can say that because yours may not be, have 443 00:27:52,444 --> 00:27:58,504 been that way, is that students are rarely rewarded for asking questions. 444 00:27:58,984 --> 00:28:03,194 Actually, there are Um, very often rewarded for answering questions. 445 00:28:03,644 --> 00:28:05,475 In fact, that's what an exam looks like. 446 00:28:05,624 --> 00:28:06,955 It's a bunch of questions. 447 00:28:07,034 --> 00:28:07,695 Yes. 448 00:28:08,195 --> 00:28:13,094 Um, it's not a bunch of, it's not a bunch of questions you get to ask. 449 00:28:13,105 --> 00:28:15,225 It's a bunch of questions that you have to answer. 450 00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:18,794 And there is a sort of a right answer typically. 451 00:28:18,864 --> 00:28:19,154 Right. 452 00:28:20,115 --> 00:28:28,115 And so it really reflects on how little our education system or 453 00:28:28,115 --> 00:28:32,284 maybe even our society values the ability to ask questions. 454 00:28:32,685 --> 00:28:33,085 Yes. 455 00:28:33,085 --> 00:28:36,805 Because we test you on your ability to answer them, but we never test 456 00:28:36,805 --> 00:28:38,155 you on your ability to ask them. 457 00:28:38,375 --> 00:28:38,915 Mm hmm. 458 00:28:38,935 --> 00:28:42,035 That's what I appreciate about what Bucknell has taught me through 459 00:28:42,035 --> 00:28:45,615 the project courses because that quote you read was from my, that 460 00:28:45,665 --> 00:28:47,805 Engineering 100 first course. 461 00:28:47,845 --> 00:28:52,845 And I remember doing that like three years ago and. 462 00:28:53,095 --> 00:28:56,805 So they didn't wait till you, they didn't say you must earn three years of credit. 463 00:28:56,825 --> 00:28:58,115 Now you get to ask the question. 464 00:28:58,115 --> 00:28:58,475 No. 465 00:28:58,524 --> 00:29:00,264 Like right your own project. 466 00:29:00,404 --> 00:29:00,965 Yes. 467 00:29:00,995 --> 00:29:06,624 So I remember like trying to figure out having that experience was important 468 00:29:06,644 --> 00:29:11,544 to be able to see what is valuable because we had all of this data. 469 00:29:11,544 --> 00:29:13,154 We had our system working. 470 00:29:13,724 --> 00:29:15,485 But what is valuable to show? 471 00:29:15,495 --> 00:29:16,394 We have dates. 472 00:29:16,394 --> 00:29:17,944 We have times. 473 00:29:18,214 --> 00:29:25,320 Um, so Looking through and being able to pinpoint what do we think is best to show 474 00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:29,930 and how do we show it was so valuable and then that carries on for the next 475 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:35,409 few years in the design tract as in, I don't, if you saw my EKG 201 portfolio 476 00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:41,569 that was designing, like we made, um, the DAMS project, it is a acronym for 477 00:29:41,629 --> 00:29:46,209 a machine that we build in sophomore design where we have to choose a, a, um, 478 00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:48,770 Value choose a problem for it to solve. 479 00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:53,150 So I made a color, a reader where you can read the color of things 480 00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:57,349 and it has like an educational game component and with senior design. 481 00:29:57,349 --> 00:30:01,429 Now, all of those questions, open ended questions that our professors 482 00:30:01,429 --> 00:30:06,190 and curriculum have led us to those accumulate in our senior design project 483 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:12,535 where we're getting direction from a client, but it's also up to us to pinpoint 484 00:30:12,535 --> 00:30:17,425 the things that our client may not have considered and ask those questions. 485 00:30:17,425 --> 00:30:21,265 And even if the client proposes something, we should counteract that 486 00:30:21,265 --> 00:30:25,045 and really consider it in relation to the whole project to see if it's 487 00:30:25,045 --> 00:30:26,575 really good for the whole project. 488 00:30:26,575 --> 00:30:30,235 So being able to question and really choose what is valuable and what 489 00:30:30,235 --> 00:30:34,465 matters is something that Bucknell has really, prac ha has allowed me to 490 00:30:34,465 --> 00:30:36,885 practice throughout our projects here. 491 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,620 And I too, that's why I love the, the program at Bucknell so much as well, 492 00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:49,230 because it's, it is these abilities that to me is what's going to, um, to 493 00:30:49,230 --> 00:30:54,299 create a world where, you know, we're doing it not purely based on whether I 494 00:30:54,299 --> 00:30:59,530 can get a job or whether I'm going to get those perks or this, you know, you 495 00:30:59,530 --> 00:31:04,670 know, the, the, whatever the, whatever the, the, the salary might be and so on. 496 00:31:04,930 --> 00:31:08,485 It, it, there is a. Uh, uh, multiple drives. 497 00:31:08,545 --> 00:31:11,285 I'm, I've, those are all things that you should consider, right? 498 00:31:11,365 --> 00:31:13,285 I'm sure you're thinking you're senior now. 499 00:31:13,285 --> 00:31:16,284 I don't know what your plans are yet, which we can talk about later, but 500 00:31:16,315 --> 00:31:19,135 you know that you, you should think about those things, obviously, right? 501 00:31:19,494 --> 00:31:23,604 But you also, I, I, I just have this feeling that you're also 502 00:31:23,604 --> 00:31:27,494 not going to just blindly go into a job just because you're paid. 503 00:31:27,884 --> 00:31:34,780 Um, and, and I feel like that, by the way, When I was, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm much older, 504 00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:36,780 I'm sort of the last generation, right? 505 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:44,269 Um, my, I would say that, you know, my parents probably just, the, 506 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,119 the most important thing is just to get a job, get a good job, get 507 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,200 a job that pays well, hopefully. 508 00:31:49,819 --> 00:31:57,780 Um, none of them, I would say, ever expected it to be, you know, to consider 509 00:31:57,850 --> 00:32:01,270 a different dimension of success, like, do you make something that's 510 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,750 meaningful, that brings you fulfillment and joy and all that stuff, right? 511 00:32:06,150 --> 00:32:10,920 Because for, for them, it's a lot more about, you know, if you 512 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,329 can make it up money, then you'll find the joy later, you know? 513 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:19,020 Yes, very different definitions of success from generation to generation. 514 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:19,280 Yes. 515 00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:20,170 Yeah. 516 00:32:20,170 --> 00:32:26,650 And I, so, so I, I, I think that that's something that, um, it's easy to get lost 517 00:32:26,650 --> 00:32:33,279 in because we, we, we just have a culture of not putting a lot of emphasis on 518 00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:37,880 that, being able to question things and, and being valued and then being, being 519 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,610 able to like get rewarded for that, you know, like if I were to give it, Okay. 520 00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:47,870 Like, I, I, when I taught, I never gave exams, but if I were to give 521 00:32:47,870 --> 00:32:51,960 exams, you know, half of it would have been about asking questions. 522 00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:57,899 Just ask any questions, you know, um, and, uh, and, and, and, but we 523 00:32:57,899 --> 00:33:02,630 don't do that because it's not the norm and it feels like getting to the 524 00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:04,290 answer is the more important part. 525 00:33:04,690 --> 00:33:07,270 Um, I actually think that, you know, like we. 526 00:33:07,595 --> 00:33:12,125 People always talk about getting leaders and developing leadership skills. 527 00:33:12,405 --> 00:33:14,135 Leaders that can't ask questions. 528 00:33:14,135 --> 00:33:19,475 I don't know how they can lead, you know, like, like you can only lead 529 00:33:19,525 --> 00:33:23,985 like in those cases, I feel like, okay, let's say you somehow get the 530 00:33:23,995 --> 00:33:28,345 leadership skill, meaning you got people to, to do what you want them to do, 531 00:33:28,545 --> 00:33:30,075 except that you don't know what to do. 532 00:33:30,135 --> 00:33:32,375 So where are you leading them to? 533 00:33:32,375 --> 00:33:33,815 Is it up, down, left or right? 534 00:33:34,225 --> 00:33:34,585 Right. 535 00:33:35,095 --> 00:33:38,335 And a good leader is always just thinking of multiple dimensions too. 536 00:33:38,335 --> 00:33:41,305 It's not just what to do, it's what you have done in the past. 537 00:33:41,305 --> 00:33:43,105 It's how can you improve. 538 00:33:43,105 --> 00:33:46,615 So it's always asking questions, making sure you're in line with the team. 539 00:33:46,615 --> 00:33:51,505 And sometimes also just being able to, to listen to other people's questions too... 540 00:33:51,805 --> 00:33:55,945 'cause sometimes I'm, um, a project manager on my senior design team 541 00:33:55,945 --> 00:33:59,265 and that involves like servant leadership, as they call it. 542 00:33:59,265 --> 00:34:03,135 So you're like listening to what the people on your team have to say. 543 00:34:03,135 --> 00:34:07,595 And how do you form that and like build on that and ask questions like, okay, 544 00:34:07,595 --> 00:34:09,694 you told me you need this by this date. 545 00:34:09,755 --> 00:34:10,785 How can I help you? 546 00:34:10,795 --> 00:34:12,974 How can I do this for you? 547 00:34:12,984 --> 00:34:13,785 Things like that. 548 00:34:13,825 --> 00:34:16,024 So that is very important skill as a leader. 549 00:34:16,024 --> 00:34:16,444 I agree. 550 00:34:16,444 --> 00:34:16,944 Yes. 551 00:34:17,054 --> 00:34:17,364 Yeah. 552 00:34:17,544 --> 00:34:18,154 Amazing. 553 00:34:18,435 --> 00:34:24,995 So I. I, I feel like if I don't tell you this now, you'd think that, you 554 00:34:24,995 --> 00:34:26,805 know, like, why did I hide it from you? 555 00:34:26,905 --> 00:34:30,945 I should share with you that I actually went to an art and design school as well. 556 00:34:30,945 --> 00:34:33,864 So when you talked about your design process and I, when I read 557 00:34:33,865 --> 00:34:35,494 about all them, oh, this is lovely. 558 00:34:35,795 --> 00:34:38,534 You talked about the whole iterative process, but I think 559 00:34:38,535 --> 00:34:41,975 that this is what new generations of students are all going to be. 560 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:50,660 I think they're all going to, um, amass multidisciplinary thinking processes. 561 00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:55,240 So you've acquired a lot of this engineering and then like you just 562 00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:59,449 talked about project management and then you talked about art and design. 563 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,270 You know, you talk about working with, you know, clients and, you know, having to 564 00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:09,790 push back on their, their, their demands and, you know, these and then engineering 565 00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:14,040 itself, you know, all of these. 566 00:35:15,535 --> 00:35:20,815 different disciplines brings about, I believe they bring about sometimes 567 00:35:20,815 --> 00:35:23,885 slightly different ways of looking at the world and different ways. 568 00:35:23,925 --> 00:35:28,004 And I think Liberal Arts actually is the one that really tries to bring 569 00:35:28,005 --> 00:35:31,385 together a lot of these different ways of thinking, you know, whether it be 570 00:35:31,634 --> 00:35:36,355 through the lens of religion, whether it's through the lens of, you know, social 571 00:35:36,355 --> 00:35:42,424 work, uh, whether the lens of law and society, right, history, but it could 572 00:35:42,424 --> 00:35:44,595 also be about Microbiology, you know. 573 00:35:45,115 --> 00:35:50,595 Um, And, and the different ways of thinking about the world allows, I 574 00:35:50,595 --> 00:35:58,584 really believe that it allows us to just have many more tools on our tool belt 575 00:35:58,745 --> 00:36:01,335 to be able to ask and answer questions. 576 00:36:02,065 --> 00:36:03,655 But if we don't develop those. 577 00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:07,980 You become fairly limited in how you can do that, right? 578 00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:13,209 And some of it comes sort of comes like by default, like in your case, 579 00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:19,730 your parents having had this experience of having to gather water is. 580 00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:23,660 Is something that came by default for you through their 581 00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:25,560 hard work, by the way, right? 582 00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:30,919 But it came default for you and you can use it, which is fantastic, right? 583 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:37,109 So this, I think this is really where I know that right this minute. 584 00:36:37,485 --> 00:36:43,995 Like, people are attacking DI and there's all kinds of issues around that right now. 585 00:36:44,315 --> 00:36:49,104 But I really think that just the diverse thinking from all the different fields 586 00:36:49,104 --> 00:36:53,925 and disciplines and studies and world experience, like lived experiences, is 587 00:36:53,925 --> 00:37:01,245 what will make you a better contributor to society, because those are the 588 00:37:01,245 --> 00:37:05,914 things you can draw upon, whereas if you don't have that, you can't, if you 589 00:37:05,915 --> 00:37:10,124 didn't take that design or, you know, that design engineering course that, 590 00:37:10,165 --> 00:37:13,614 you know, in your senior year in high school, you wouldn't have been able 591 00:37:13,615 --> 00:37:19,350 to draw from that to know what to do next, you know, and And, and that to 592 00:37:19,350 --> 00:37:21,880 me is, is going to be really critical. 593 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,760 I, I saw in one of your, um, internships, actually, I think in two, maybe not 594 00:37:27,819 --> 00:37:32,530 just one, that you had worked on some areas where, um, there was one, I think 595 00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:37,370 it was in a cybersecurity company and another in, um, I think it was like web 596 00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:39,780 development or something, but it, yes, it. 597 00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:45,190 At least one of them had something to do with AI, I think, the cyber security one. 598 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,400 There's the second one, um, it was a Machine Learning Internship 599 00:37:49,409 --> 00:37:51,029 at Flowcode in New York. 600 00:37:51,090 --> 00:37:51,780 Yes. 601 00:37:51,869 --> 00:37:52,049 Right. 602 00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:53,050 So. 603 00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:57,560 Given, you know, where that's going, I think that's an interesting one 604 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,310 to maybe spend a little time on. 605 00:37:59,830 --> 00:38:06,649 What are your thoughts on AI and what that means for you as, first 606 00:38:06,649 --> 00:38:11,140 of all, as a student, but also as a student who's about to graduate? 607 00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:13,714 I'm assuming you're about to graduate this summer? 608 00:38:13,714 --> 00:38:15,129 Yes, this spring. 609 00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:16,450 Um, this spring? 610 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:18,050 At the end of the spring semester? 611 00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:20,520 By the way, before we deal with that, what's your plan? 612 00:38:20,530 --> 00:38:21,510 What are you doing after? 613 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,150 So, I am currently job hunting and networking. 614 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,019 Uh, because of my interest in both tech and art, I'm looking 615 00:38:29,019 --> 00:38:30,524 for a position to work in. 616 00:38:31,025 --> 00:38:35,605 My first choice would be something in VR, XR, so Virtual Reality, and 617 00:38:35,755 --> 00:38:39,985 Augmented Reality, because I have those skills and it's, I feel like I have 618 00:38:39,985 --> 00:38:45,445 a niche combination of both tech and art, so something with VR development, 619 00:38:45,445 --> 00:38:51,685 so some options would be, um, creating simulations or game design, uh, Another 620 00:38:51,685 --> 00:38:55,115 option I've been looking into is web design, web development, because 621 00:38:55,125 --> 00:39:00,465 again, that combination of coding and design, um, maybe software engineering. 622 00:39:00,515 --> 00:39:06,335 So I've just been connecting and reaching out to alumni and professors. 623 00:39:06,345 --> 00:39:10,885 So if you have an opportunity that, uh, lies around at the intersection of art 624 00:39:10,915 --> 00:39:12,535 and STEM, I would love to hear about it. 625 00:39:12,965 --> 00:39:19,015 So for anyone listening, um, if you, your neighbors, your friends, anyone, 626 00:39:19,025 --> 00:39:25,405 you know, is looking for, I think that by now, if you listen in, I think it's like 627 00:39:25,415 --> 00:39:30,694 40 minutes or so, um, you probably have gotten a really good feeling about Clea 628 00:39:30,835 --> 00:39:36,215 and the type of people that, the type of person she is, but also, you know, 629 00:39:36,225 --> 00:39:44,020 how, you know, today, I think being A pure engineer is simply not good enough. 630 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,800 It's an engineer with heart, with empathy, with the ability to reflect, 631 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,889 the ability to bring, bring her history and her lived experience 632 00:39:54,890 --> 00:39:58,744 and even her culture and everything to it is what's going to make her. 633 00:39:58,895 --> 00:40:03,675 I believe, you know, an ideal, really strong candidate for any of those 634 00:40:03,685 --> 00:40:05,105 jobs that are related in those areas. 635 00:40:05,115 --> 00:40:10,515 So if anyone's listening, we'll put your, uh, um, information into, into the show 636 00:40:10,515 --> 00:40:17,330 notes, um, you know, contact her because, um, She'll, she'll get, I, I, I think 637 00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:22,110 that you're going to get snatched up and you will have lots of offers and, um, 638 00:40:22,170 --> 00:40:23,410 yeah, I don't think you should worry. 639 00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:24,040 I hope so. 640 00:40:24,350 --> 00:40:28,319 You, I, I think that you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll be, you'll be a 641 00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:29,820 great find for lots of people. 642 00:40:30,180 --> 00:40:30,360 Thank you. 643 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,320 Hopefully you're not too late. 644 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,180 Those who are listening and going, oh, I better con connect with her and we'll put 645 00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:38,930 your LinkedIn profile and your portfolio has a LinkedIn link there as as well. 646 00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:40,790 And your art, you know, link and all that. 647 00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:42,055 Ra we'll, we'll listen. 648 00:40:42,055 --> 00:40:42,056 Yes. 649 00:40:42,056 --> 00:40:42,620 It's linked Everything. 650 00:40:42,860 --> 00:40:43,070 Yep. 651 00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:47,380 Here's a preview of what's coming up next In part two of my conversation 652 00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:51,340 with Clea Ramos, a student studying computer engineering and studio 653 00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:52,930 arts at Bucknell University. 654 00:40:53,445 --> 00:40:57,645 I still have hope, you know, because, because I'm, I feel like what you were 655 00:40:57,645 --> 00:41:01,105 saying, it's not enough to be just an engineer, you need to have all of those 656 00:41:01,115 --> 00:41:05,565 skills and that interdisciplinary, which I think AI could never replace all of 657 00:41:05,565 --> 00:41:10,615 those, like, human aspects that makes a person a person because what, how you 658 00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:14,725 provide value in your work are, like you said, your past experience and your 659 00:41:14,725 --> 00:41:19,365 identity, how all of those aspects of your identity and what you've been through 660 00:41:19,365 --> 00:41:21,305 affect how you do your current work. 661 00:41:21,785 --> 00:41:24,825 Which, AI could never have that, like, history built in.