1 00:00:01,140 --> 00:00:03,630 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,790 --> 00:00:05,119 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,630 --> 00:00:10,590 In this episode, you will hear Part Two of my conversation with Tonya Hendrix, 4 00:00:11,490 --> 00:00:17,559 Demetri Kapetanakos, and Dionne Miller from LaGuardia Community College. 5 00:00:19,245 --> 00:00:23,205 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 6 00:00:23,225 --> 00:00:24,555 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 7 00:00:26,695 --> 00:00:30,105 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 8 00:00:30,115 --> 00:00:31,625 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 9 00:00:34,375 --> 00:00:38,175 Now, I think that LaGuardia, you also I think that one of the really 10 00:00:38,225 --> 00:00:42,035 cool, smart things, and I don't know whether this is part of the calculus, 11 00:00:42,355 --> 00:00:47,874 but I know that there is, you know, at least in the past, uh, some, some 12 00:00:48,004 --> 00:00:52,485 idea of co-ops, you know, for students to work, you know, with internships 13 00:00:52,514 --> 00:00:54,494 and so on, it really almost like. 14 00:00:55,019 --> 00:00:57,290 Like immediately prove that, doesn't it? 15 00:00:57,379 --> 00:01:02,080 Um, because you are, you are also in the real world and saying, Hey, 16 00:01:02,169 --> 00:01:07,300 actually what I'm doing matters and there is a place for it, right? 17 00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:14,039 Yeah, we definitely have developed over the last few years, I now focus on 18 00:01:14,059 --> 00:01:20,265 Experiential Learning, even beyond the internship idea, but helping students 19 00:01:20,265 --> 00:01:24,525 to see how what they're learning in the classroom can actually impact their 20 00:01:24,525 --> 00:01:26,885 communities and make things better. 21 00:01:27,285 --> 00:01:30,304 And that's really a powerful form of learning. 22 00:01:30,355 --> 00:01:35,434 I think of it as transformational learning when students can take this thing that I'm 23 00:01:35,434 --> 00:01:41,975 learning in whichever class and apply to some issue or problem in my community and 24 00:01:41,975 --> 00:01:44,705 see that knowledge making a difference. 25 00:01:45,015 --> 00:01:50,495 You know, I came from a background where in high school, my principal had 26 00:01:50,505 --> 00:01:55,924 a big focus on what she called a rounded education, which, which now, you know, 27 00:01:55,925 --> 00:01:58,344 I equate to a Liberal Arts education. 28 00:01:58,604 --> 00:02:03,664 And when I went to college, it was, well, we're not educating you for a particular. 29 00:02:04,485 --> 00:02:05,835 Skill or job. 30 00:02:06,054 --> 00:02:10,625 We're educating you to be able to learn so that wherever you find yourself 31 00:02:10,664 --> 00:02:15,315 you have the skills to learn something new something that's applicable to the 32 00:02:15,315 --> 00:02:21,514 situation that you find yourself in and you know, I think that's what we aim for 33 00:02:21,555 --> 00:02:26,155 at LaGuardia in our Liberal Arts program that we're giving students the skill to 34 00:02:26,625 --> 00:02:31,905 to learn wherever they find themselves, whatever it is that they're doing and 35 00:02:31,914 --> 00:02:38,954 also to Apply that knowledge to their their communities and see that their 36 00:02:38,954 --> 00:02:45,045 knowledge is not just for them and their personal ambitions, but also can impact 37 00:02:45,394 --> 00:02:46,785 community that they should care about. 38 00:02:49,885 --> 00:02:51,885 It is so, so powerful. 39 00:02:51,935 --> 00:02:57,974 And I actually think that there's a something, you know, like, um, 40 00:02:58,915 --> 00:03:04,064 what you just said echoes with me so well, because there is, it's really 41 00:03:04,074 --> 00:03:08,134 different when a student is driven by something that they can see and 42 00:03:08,134 --> 00:03:09,704 experience and they can believe in. 43 00:03:09,705 --> 00:03:14,265 Because this is my, my community is my family, is my friends. 44 00:03:14,645 --> 00:03:19,394 These are my, you know, relatives that when I do these things, it 45 00:03:19,404 --> 00:03:21,795 actually worked for, for them, right? 46 00:03:22,005 --> 00:03:28,944 That to me is an even more direct, you know, sort of, um, because I think that 47 00:03:28,944 --> 00:03:31,624 some of it is sometimes kind of myth like. 48 00:03:31,885 --> 00:03:37,294 I have, uh, teenagers in my, in my household, and sometimes they would go, 49 00:03:37,564 --> 00:03:43,910 Hey, I knew someone who You know, um, you know, who, you know, I saw someone 50 00:03:43,910 --> 00:03:47,940 that does this job and, and they were going to charge a charge us a lot of 51 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:51,410 money because we have to, you know, fix something or whatever it might be. 52 00:03:51,649 --> 00:03:55,129 And, and, and, and we require the service and then it go, well, that 53 00:03:55,129 --> 00:03:56,470 would be a really great profession. 54 00:03:56,690 --> 00:03:59,089 That's what they, where they're learning that from, right? 55 00:03:59,339 --> 00:04:00,429 They are getting that. 56 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,590 But, but they're exposed to so little of it. 57 00:04:03,990 --> 00:04:05,870 That's whatever that came first. 58 00:04:05,870 --> 00:04:07,910 It seems like I could see myself doing that. 59 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,440 And immediately they go like, let's do that. 60 00:04:10,669 --> 00:04:15,790 And I, and I, I think that the, the idea that they, they just didn't 61 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,259 really quite get the exposure. 62 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,730 If, if they were exposed to Leonardo da Vinci, they might 63 00:04:20,730 --> 00:04:22,079 have been painters instead. 64 00:04:22,130 --> 00:04:22,710 I don't know. 65 00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:23,310 Right. 66 00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:25,190 Or they might've been writers instead. 67 00:04:25,510 --> 00:04:28,440 So I, I just think that there's a little bit of this sort of. 68 00:04:29,335 --> 00:04:34,474 It's slightly myth based right now, um, that, Hey, you know, these skills gets 69 00:04:34,485 --> 00:04:38,675 me a job and a paycheck where those don't, I don't think it's actually true 70 00:04:39,055 --> 00:04:40,595 because there are plenty of people. 71 00:04:40,595 --> 00:04:44,704 And in fact, you know, uh, Demetri had said, Hey, you're from the Ivy leagues. 72 00:04:44,704 --> 00:04:48,114 You know, actually these kids get a lot of jobs and good jobs 73 00:04:48,114 --> 00:04:49,585 and good start paying jobs. 74 00:04:49,785 --> 00:04:50,425 And guess what? 75 00:04:50,525 --> 00:04:55,045 Most of their degrees are largely Liberal Arts-based. 76 00:04:55,605 --> 00:05:00,435 Um, and so it's a, uh, it's, it's a little bit, it's sort of like weird that, you 77 00:05:00,435 --> 00:05:04,755 know, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, you know, I love what you just said, we're 78 00:05:04,755 --> 00:05:09,335 not a workforce development, we want to provide them with an education, right, 79 00:05:09,404 --> 00:05:16,335 that encompasses Critical thinking, but also like when I saw your, the template, 80 00:05:16,355 --> 00:05:17,745 can we talk about that a little bit? 81 00:05:17,745 --> 00:05:21,744 You created a template, which was really a big part of your paper. 82 00:05:21,745 --> 00:05:23,735 And I don't want to have this whole conversation. 83 00:05:23,745 --> 00:05:24,905 We're talking about that. 84 00:05:25,294 --> 00:05:29,744 Um, you, you have this template that you've created and clearly 85 00:05:29,744 --> 00:05:31,715 you wanted to share it with others. 86 00:05:32,175 --> 00:05:37,355 Um, that had, you know, six, I think it was like six or seven big. 87 00:05:37,979 --> 00:05:44,960 Pages, big topics, um, I will share the paper so people can really read 88 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,939 the details for those who are really interested, but it would be great 89 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,749 if you all can maybe talk a little bit about that and what are some 90 00:05:52,749 --> 00:05:55,260 of the, the big ideas from this. 91 00:05:59,169 --> 00:06:00,210 Do you want me to start? 92 00:06:00,679 --> 00:06:02,689 Well, go ahead, Demetri. 93 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:03,169 Okay. 94 00:06:04,135 --> 00:06:08,635 I think, well, I mean, I think the page, I mean, the template that we 95 00:06:08,635 --> 00:06:14,375 came up with really comes out with a project that Dionne sort of, you know, 96 00:06:14,435 --> 00:06:19,534 um, really wanted to sort of build a Liberal Arts identity and think 97 00:06:19,544 --> 00:06:24,995 about how could students be engaged in the Liberal Arts on a meta level. 98 00:06:26,265 --> 00:06:30,865 So, Tonya and I really were thinking about how do we layer. 99 00:06:31,195 --> 00:06:36,905 The levels of reflection and identity building that are needed in order 100 00:06:36,924 --> 00:06:42,804 to sort of come out and say, Yeah, I know what the value is of the Liberal 101 00:06:42,804 --> 00:06:44,185 Arts, what we've been talking about. 102 00:06:44,195 --> 00:06:48,564 How do we get the students slowly but steadily to build to that point 103 00:06:48,574 --> 00:06:51,334 when they're like, Aha, I got it. 104 00:06:51,865 --> 00:06:57,785 And that really is about sort of building step by step and thinking through how does 105 00:06:57,785 --> 00:07:00,975 that fit into a larger curriculum, right? 106 00:07:00,984 --> 00:07:04,974 What are the points in the curriculum that we want them to be like, stop 107 00:07:04,974 --> 00:07:08,775 and think instead of just saying, okay, I'm just going through this. 108 00:07:09,424 --> 00:07:13,445 And I think, again, this idea of reflection and identity building 109 00:07:13,465 --> 00:07:16,065 are the two major components of. 110 00:07:16,275 --> 00:07:17,224 This template. 111 00:07:18,215 --> 00:07:21,245 So and I think it's taken students beyond. 112 00:07:21,525 --> 00:07:22,935 This is the Liberal Arts. 113 00:07:22,995 --> 00:07:24,844 This is what I'm learning to. 114 00:07:24,875 --> 00:07:26,674 I am the Liberal Arts. 115 00:07:26,984 --> 00:07:28,594 The Liberal Arts matters to me. 116 00:07:28,604 --> 00:07:30,945 It's integ... It's integral to who I am. 117 00:07:32,385 --> 00:07:39,085 And so we're, you know, we're trying to transition the students, right? 118 00:07:39,705 --> 00:07:46,305 So we're... They embody their Liberal Arts education, because I truly feel deep in 119 00:07:46,305 --> 00:07:51,604 my heart that if a student can explain to somebody what the Liberal Arts is. 120 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:53,330 Right? 121 00:07:53,390 --> 00:07:59,610 You are far ahead and above and beyond most students who graduate 122 00:07:59,890 --> 00:08:01,320 with Liberal Arts degrees. 123 00:08:02,669 --> 00:08:06,430 And that's part of what we're asking them to do, starting from the very 124 00:08:06,430 --> 00:08:10,920 first sem very first, uh, semester in their first year seminar class. 125 00:08:11,230 --> 00:08:13,340 This is what people say the Liberal Arts is. 126 00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:15,300 What do you think about this? 127 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:16,930 How is this going to help you? 128 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,120 In college, how can this help you beyond right? 129 00:08:20,130 --> 00:08:23,430 Start to really embody what is Liberal Arts. 130 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:28,980 So it is kind of speaking about what Dionne mentioned earlier, an 131 00:08:29,020 --> 00:08:32,970 experiential learning process, right? 132 00:08:33,019 --> 00:08:34,349 Delving into the Liberal Arts. 133 00:08:34,349 --> 00:08:35,400 How does this matter? 134 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,820 Like Demetri said, in my everyday life, it's Liberal Arts. 135 00:08:39,890 --> 00:08:40,600 Let me ask you this. 136 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:41,330 It's liberal. 137 00:08:41,929 --> 00:08:46,170 Should people be looking at Liberal Arts, sort of this thinking, this mindset. 138 00:08:46,815 --> 00:08:50,605 A skill that they can learn and develop and be more 139 00:08:50,605 --> 00:08:52,224 sophisticated over time with it. 140 00:08:54,835 --> 00:08:56,175 I would say absolutely. 141 00:08:56,295 --> 00:09:04,685 I think we have this mindset that we were, when we were born, given 142 00:09:04,895 --> 00:09:07,005 this many cards of intelligence. 143 00:09:07,974 --> 00:09:10,585 And it's still, like you said earlier, a myth. 144 00:09:11,295 --> 00:09:13,014 We know now that's not true. 145 00:09:13,014 --> 00:09:16,905 Our neural networks can be retrained and reshaped. 146 00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:22,390 So if that's true, we can continue to learning, which is why all three of us 147 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:29,080 have said something about getting the skills to continue learning, right? 148 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,790 Because you can continue to learn. 149 00:09:31,809 --> 00:09:39,599 I think Demetri and Dionne will agree that the work that we did in order to 150 00:09:39,599 --> 00:09:46,630 get our advanced degrees, or at least I know for me, does not It doesn't 151 00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:48,430 figure into my everyday life now, 152 00:09:50,750 --> 00:09:55,149 but it did teach me skills that I still, I have to write emails on a 153 00:09:55,599 --> 00:10:00,300 daily basis, not that I enjoy the process at all, but I have to, right? 154 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:01,650 I have to write emails. 155 00:10:01,650 --> 00:10:04,329 You have to be able to communicate with people. 156 00:10:04,329 --> 00:10:08,109 And that's one of the foundations of a Liberal Arts education 157 00:10:08,409 --> 00:10:10,209 is communicating your ideas. 158 00:10:10,839 --> 00:10:16,040 And as you said earlier, when we practice those skills. 159 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,990 We get better at doing them. 160 00:10:19,740 --> 00:10:24,180 I also want to just pop in and add, I think, you know, we were, we've been 161 00:10:24,180 --> 00:10:28,989 talking about how jobs have been such an important part of our identity. 162 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:32,349 Like when we always ask someone, it's what you do. 163 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:37,520 And I feel the Liberal Arts adds another layer of identity where it 164 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,800 becomes, well, what are your passions? 165 00:10:40,090 --> 00:10:41,420 What are you thinking? 166 00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:42,980 What are you interested in? 167 00:10:43,410 --> 00:10:45,650 And it's just a different way of. 168 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,740 I think identifying yourself and also walking through the world, 169 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,800 both at the same time, right? 170 00:10:53,950 --> 00:10:54,290 Right. 171 00:10:55,099 --> 00:10:56,770 It's a way to know yourself better. 172 00:10:57,020 --> 00:11:01,970 So I tell my students all the time, it's okay if you didn't like these particular 173 00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:04,660 chapters in your biology textbook. 174 00:11:05,389 --> 00:11:06,980 You may like other chapters. 175 00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:08,870 Part of knowing. 176 00:11:09,535 --> 00:11:13,905 It's knowing what you don't know, and that's not at all 177 00:11:13,925 --> 00:11:15,415 reflected in our society. 178 00:11:16,415 --> 00:11:20,635 No one can know everything, but if you know what you don't know and you're 179 00:11:20,645 --> 00:11:22,614 able to learn, then you can go get it. 180 00:11:24,704 --> 00:11:30,274 I think that what you are all doing here is so incredibly important. 181 00:11:30,944 --> 00:11:36,085 One of the things that I. I feel very strongly about is that 182 00:11:38,255 --> 00:11:42,984 it feels like to me that reflection should be a skill that you can 183 00:11:42,985 --> 00:11:47,875 differentiate from when you were a baby all the way to you are. 184 00:11:49,194 --> 00:11:53,434 I'm, I'm not even, I'm going to skip over PhDs, but I'm talking about life, 185 00:11:53,615 --> 00:11:58,124 you know, all the way to when you, you know, eventually, you know, disappear 186 00:11:58,134 --> 00:12:01,214 from earth, all of that experience. 187 00:12:01,885 --> 00:12:03,575 You know, it's a skill that you get. 188 00:12:03,575 --> 00:12:12,025 And by the way, it has been the truth for humanity throughout the history. 189 00:12:12,215 --> 00:12:18,114 That's why, you know, the native Americans have the elders and Chinese talk about, 190 00:12:18,114 --> 00:12:22,185 you know, like what happens when they, you know, when, when, uh, you know, how do you 191 00:12:22,275 --> 00:12:26,835 think about, um, you know, people who have experience and, and they're enlightened 192 00:12:26,895 --> 00:12:30,715 because they've gotten all the meditations over time and so on and so forth. 193 00:12:31,064 --> 00:12:37,155 Um, But, but my thinking about it, that to me, that one of the big 194 00:12:37,175 --> 00:12:42,434 observation that I've, I've had for a long time, and I've, I'm continuously 195 00:12:42,465 --> 00:12:51,784 puzzled by it is that we pay so much attention to skill level it, when it 196 00:12:51,784 --> 00:12:54,494 comes to something like let's call. 197 00:12:55,065 --> 00:12:58,225 I'm not using the as an attack, by the way, but I'm using as an 198 00:12:58,225 --> 00:13:02,055 example, let's take math because none of you guys here teach math. 199 00:13:02,065 --> 00:13:07,375 So I don't feel like I'm impacting you, um, but it really applied to almost every 200 00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:10,744 domain where we know that, you know. 201 00:13:11,089 --> 00:13:14,400 Like at kindergarten, you are at this level, being able to have 202 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,680 concepts of counting and whatnot. 203 00:13:16,969 --> 00:13:19,749 At certain level, you're able to do certain kind of arithmetic. 204 00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:23,510 And then at some level you're doing pre-calculus, calculus, et 205 00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:25,229 cetera, and so on and so forth. 206 00:13:26,749 --> 00:13:31,059 And we, I'm not even criticizing and whether they are value and whether we 207 00:13:31,059 --> 00:13:36,519 should have them, but my point is see how sophisticated we've differentiated 208 00:13:36,529 --> 00:13:38,010 each and every level of this. 209 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:43,979 Yet, when we talk about reflection, which to me is much more important 210 00:13:44,899 --> 00:13:49,129 because it literally is a building block of our neural network, like, um, 211 00:13:49,129 --> 00:13:55,829 Tonya, you had just mentioned, yet we are still relatively sort of soft about 212 00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:58,909 what just reflect you learn to reflect. 213 00:13:59,250 --> 00:14:05,240 Like, I don't have the vocabulary to say now that you are a, you know, 214 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:10,149 graduate of this or now that you are, you should be able to do it at this level. 215 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Like your neural network should be this thick and this wide, or, or 216 00:14:14,420 --> 00:14:17,630 at least have, you know, have been, have been able to process things 217 00:14:17,949 --> 00:14:20,219 that are off the sixth degree, right? 218 00:14:20,219 --> 00:14:23,670 We are not really even putting enough effort into it. 219 00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:29,260 To really do it aside, aside from a program like yours, where you've dedicated 220 00:14:29,260 --> 00:14:34,510 an entire program where people can actually have a degree on in Liberal 221 00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:41,029 Arts, where you are, you know, like really thinking through like, well, 222 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:46,410 the curriculum is how to think is the ability to develop purpose and need. 223 00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:50,860 And by the way, developing purpose and meaning to me is what's really beautiful 224 00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:55,250 about what you, you all had talked about, because it's not just about getting that 225 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:59,960 paycheck either, because, you know, there are, there's getting a paycheck in a way 226 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:01,849 that is fulfilling and there's a paycheck. 227 00:15:01,849 --> 00:15:03,050 That's just a paycheck. 228 00:15:03,339 --> 00:15:08,730 Um, you know, um, and, and, and it doesn't feel right to just get our 229 00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:11,980 students to get a paycheck without giving them that fulfillment. 230 00:15:12,770 --> 00:15:16,580 And I think that's one of the benefits of a college education. 231 00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:23,050 So you should transition from having a job to having a career where you have 232 00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:29,370 a vested interest in the processes and the outcomes other than the paycheck. 233 00:15:30,939 --> 00:15:35,849 And one thing I think that we're kind of skirting around is the idea of innovation. 234 00:15:37,175 --> 00:15:44,425 So critical thinking is what allows us to innovate, but it is like you 235 00:15:44,425 --> 00:15:49,014 mentioned before, reflection is not built into any curriculum, right? 236 00:15:49,174 --> 00:15:56,595 And for a lot of us who teach a lot of us teach the way that we were taught 237 00:15:58,195 --> 00:16:03,224 and we weren't taught to ask a student, 'You just learned a lot of chemistry and 238 00:16:03,224 --> 00:16:04,855 you're supposed to be in a biology class. 239 00:16:05,315 --> 00:16:11,984 How do you feel about that?' We're we're not We're not taught to do that. 240 00:16:12,314 --> 00:16:19,329 So it requires us to be innovative ourselves in order to train our 241 00:16:19,329 --> 00:16:21,455 students to be innovative, right? 242 00:16:21,455 --> 00:16:24,694 Because that's where innovation comes from reflection. 243 00:16:24,885 --> 00:16:26,055 And you're right, Jeff. 244 00:16:26,075 --> 00:16:32,304 It's a hugely important skill that we should just as human beings be able to 245 00:16:32,315 --> 00:16:36,074 better, um, like delineate the stages. 246 00:16:37,155 --> 00:16:40,225 Stage zero reflector, your stage two reflector, right? 247 00:16:40,225 --> 00:16:44,464 And if you do a X, Y, and Z, you'll can level up, right? 248 00:16:44,505 --> 00:16:46,615 Your reflection ability is really important. 249 00:16:47,625 --> 00:16:50,605 I mean, maybe it doesn't even have to be so sequential, you know, 250 00:16:53,735 --> 00:16:58,234 but I think that for us not having even the sophistication level to have. 251 00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:02,069 You know, a discussion where we can just say, Oh, okay. 252 00:17:02,139 --> 00:17:06,349 You know, I see that you are, you know, you're able to reflect in 253 00:17:06,349 --> 00:17:08,039 this way, which is very powerful. 254 00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:11,050 And when you combine it with this other kinds of reflection, this is where 255 00:17:11,220 --> 00:17:15,050 a really confident, you know, like a really cool, like you are, you're 256 00:17:15,159 --> 00:17:18,490 going to be really good at the, the, you know, creative, you know, you, 257 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,069 you'd be a great screenwriter and, and, and, and, and, and, and, uh, you know, 258 00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:24,740 and a playwright, et cetera, right. 259 00:17:25,859 --> 00:17:29,780 Could I just say, um, I think the other thing too, that the Liberal Arts 260 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:36,885 provides is imagination and possibility of other ways of looking at the world. 261 00:17:37,145 --> 00:17:41,865 I mean, I just have to sort of bring up a topic that I've just listened to. 262 00:17:41,905 --> 00:17:48,314 Um, a book called 'The Sea People - The Puzzle of Polynesia.' And one of the 263 00:17:48,314 --> 00:17:55,915 things that blew, my mind is the way, um, these peoples were able to navigate 264 00:17:55,915 --> 00:18:03,264 the sea, not with a single chart, looking at stars, looking at swells, looking at 265 00:18:03,274 --> 00:18:09,744 birds and, you know, and it's, you know, and they were mentioning this, um, 18th 266 00:18:09,745 --> 00:18:15,495 century priest who sailed with cook named to Paya and he did a map and they're 267 00:18:15,495 --> 00:18:17,475 like, it doesn't look like any map. 268 00:18:17,860 --> 00:18:25,680 That is actually readable because he used the positionality of a Polynesian 269 00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:29,880 where they were sort of jumping from island to island and using sort of 270 00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:35,500 different modalities of thinking, right, in order to be able to navigate. 271 00:18:35,569 --> 00:18:40,610 And I love that as a metaphor for the Liberal Arts too, right, about 272 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:46,570 both us as how could we spark that imagination and what could come up. 273 00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:48,990 As a result of it, right? 274 00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:51,420 I mean, it's just a different way of viewing. 275 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:53,320 It's a different way of seeing the world. 276 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,120 It's a different, it's a different empathy. 277 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,780 It's a different feeling, you know, and I just want to, I mean, 278 00:18:59,869 --> 00:19:02,850 again, any opportunity now I have to bring up the Polynesians. 279 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:07,850 I'll take it, but I do think it works really well as a metaphor here. 280 00:19:08,430 --> 00:19:09,980 I think that's so beautiful. 281 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:13,080 And by the way, this idea of empathy. 282 00:19:13,665 --> 00:19:17,034 Making meaning, you know, finding passion, et cetera. 283 00:19:17,855 --> 00:19:24,695 It, you know, to me is, you know, it's one of those, um, one of those things 284 00:19:24,695 --> 00:19:31,585 that humans are privileged to have, you know, like we, we have a lot of choices. 285 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,870 In life and we get to develop passion about something and we get to have 286 00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:44,399 that sense of fulfillment by if we can identify it, we can go for it and it 287 00:19:44,399 --> 00:19:47,680 would be the best feeling one can have. 288 00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:54,129 And it also includes things like, you know, doing things for your family, 289 00:19:54,139 --> 00:19:57,819 doing things for your loved ones, doing things for your friends, right? 290 00:20:01,090 --> 00:20:04,810 These things don't give you a paycheck necessarily in and of itself, 291 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,920 in most cases, at least, right? 292 00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:13,289 But they are things that we do, and as humans, we actually, that's a privilege. 293 00:20:13,289 --> 00:20:18,959 That's something that we, we get to do, and it's something that, um, you 294 00:20:18,959 --> 00:20:25,590 know, um, uh, It doesn't matter whether you're, you're, it, it, it, it, there's 295 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,400 no, um, uh, stock market for it. 296 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:33,059 There's no, um, corporate tax on this. 297 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:38,199 There's no, there's, there, there's no, that you do it for 298 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:40,959 just a pure joy of doing so. 299 00:20:41,309 --> 00:20:42,809 And I feel like that. 300 00:20:43,229 --> 00:20:51,810 In education, um, it's, it's important for us to think about that being like, 301 00:20:51,860 --> 00:20:56,520 that can't not be one of the goals, you know, for our students to, to, to 302 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,929 be there, to be at that, to have that sort of, to be able to enjoy that. 303 00:21:01,379 --> 00:21:06,860 Um, and I, I do think that it really, to me, I, I, I have, I have so much respect 304 00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:09,080 for, for all the fields, by the way. 305 00:21:09,389 --> 00:21:13,620 So I, I mean, it, it almost sounded like the, I'm like beating up on, 306 00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:14,889 Hey, if you want to be a nurse. 307 00:21:15,034 --> 00:21:16,604 Don't do that because that's just a skill. 308 00:21:16,614 --> 00:21:20,764 No, actually, I think that people that do it is because they have that passion, 309 00:21:21,225 --> 00:21:26,455 you know, but it would be terrible in my mind for someone that don't have that 310 00:21:26,455 --> 00:21:32,855 passion and then they do it because they heard it's a good way to get a paycheck. 311 00:21:33,495 --> 00:21:35,384 And then when they do that job. 312 00:21:35,890 --> 00:21:41,870 They do do get that paycheck and, and I'm sure you can train them to the 313 00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:45,880 level where they can do it, but they are just going to be unfulfilled. 314 00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:48,990 They're doing this where they really want, they really want to be as an 315 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,050 athlete or to be a painter or to be a writer or to be something else, 316 00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:54,899 to be a communicator, you know? 317 00:21:55,770 --> 00:21:56,369 Yeah, no. 318 00:21:56,369 --> 00:22:03,340 And I mean, you have people like Abraham Verghese, who, um, you know, doctor. 319 00:22:03,885 --> 00:22:08,254 And an incredible writer, you know, first book about his experience working with 320 00:22:08,264 --> 00:22:11,235 AIDS patients in Tennessee in the 1990s. 321 00:22:11,685 --> 00:22:16,085 And then he writes some incredible novels where he could straddle that line 322 00:22:16,104 --> 00:22:24,554 between, you know, science, you know, hardcore science as a very, I mean, well 323 00:22:24,584 --> 00:22:27,245 known and quite sort of renowned doctor. 324 00:22:27,274 --> 00:22:30,044 And at the same time, An incredible writer. 325 00:22:30,135 --> 00:22:34,584 And those are, you know, multiple identities that our students already have. 326 00:22:34,615 --> 00:22:40,435 And it's a question of, again, how do they, I think, establish new ones and keep 327 00:22:40,495 --> 00:22:48,074 adding to them and that they don't have to be defined by discipline, right, right. 328 00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:52,360 So that, you know, There there's multiple ways of being that you 329 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,020 can be the same body, right? 330 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,230 You know, I usually, you know, say to students, you can be interested 331 00:22:58,250 --> 00:23:01,569 in science and in art and in history. 332 00:23:01,569 --> 00:23:04,819 It doesn't have to be one or the other. 333 00:23:04,819 --> 00:23:07,130 It's possible to have multiple interests. 334 00:23:07,139 --> 00:23:10,309 You know, you talked about Leonardo da Vinci earlier. 335 00:23:10,645 --> 00:23:15,905 to be a painter who's interested in anatomy and physics and engineering, 336 00:23:15,965 --> 00:23:18,264 and it's possible to be that person. 337 00:23:18,635 --> 00:23:23,205 You know, when we, when I conceived of this project, part of, of what I 338 00:23:23,205 --> 00:23:27,514 was pushing back against is, you know, students come into the college and they 339 00:23:27,524 --> 00:23:32,825 have to pick a major and Liberal Arts became the place that you went if you 340 00:23:32,835 --> 00:23:34,845 weren't sure what you wanted to be. 341 00:23:34,865 --> 00:23:36,595 And that was somehow a bad thing. 342 00:23:37,015 --> 00:23:37,425 All right. 343 00:23:37,425 --> 00:23:37,865 So. 344 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,520 People who want to be nurses or engineers or any of the really 345 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,409 well defined programs, fine. 346 00:23:45,719 --> 00:23:48,309 You're not quite sure yet what you want to do. 347 00:23:48,309 --> 00:23:51,309 Okay, go into Liberal Arts and figure it out, and then you'll 348 00:23:51,309 --> 00:23:52,650 switch into something else. 349 00:23:53,089 --> 00:23:57,089 And we wanted to position the Liberal Arts major as an end in 350 00:23:57,090 --> 00:24:00,280 itself, as a good thing to be. 351 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:04,220 And we, we, you know, going back to the template, this idea 352 00:24:04,220 --> 00:24:06,530 of helping students recognize. 353 00:24:07,114 --> 00:24:11,740 The value that Liberal Arts Um, has in and of itself. 354 00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:14,000 Yes, it gives you all these skills. 355 00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:19,240 But yes, just being a creative, curious person is a great thing 356 00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:25,829 to be and just as great as being a nurse or an engineer or or a doctor. 357 00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:31,040 And, um, and also just even to say to students studying the Liberal 358 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,300 Arts open so many pathways to you. 359 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:34,689 You can still be creative. 360 00:24:34,830 --> 00:24:39,620 the engineer or the nurse or, or the doctor having studied Liberal Arts. 361 00:24:39,630 --> 00:24:44,539 But think about how much better you will be because you, you understand 362 00:24:44,539 --> 00:24:46,870 more about people and cultures. 363 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,010 If you're a healthcare professional who understands, you know, 364 00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:54,659 more about different cultural backgrounds of your patients, just 365 00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:58,830 how much better the standard of care you could, you could offer. 366 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:03,230 So we really wanted to make sure that students realize the value. 367 00:25:03,795 --> 00:25:09,295 Of the Liberal Arts for them, whatever pathway they eventually chose. 368 00:25:10,965 --> 00:25:12,145 I love that, Dionne. 369 00:25:12,165 --> 00:25:17,134 Um, by the way, uh, Demetri, you know who else also is a fantastic 370 00:25:17,134 --> 00:25:19,115 writer, but also a physician? 371 00:25:20,264 --> 00:25:23,425 It's, um, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. 372 00:25:23,425 --> 00:25:24,884 Who wrote Sherlock Holmes. 373 00:25:26,304 --> 00:25:26,914 True. 374 00:25:26,915 --> 00:25:30,314 You are still watching movies on Sherlock Holmes today. 375 00:25:30,764 --> 00:25:34,850 And that was written in the Late 1800s, right? 376 00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:36,070 I think it's late 1800s. 377 00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:36,550 It was written. 378 00:25:37,090 --> 00:25:42,429 And so, so, you know, this is, these are, in other words, these are not new ideas. 379 00:25:42,429 --> 00:25:48,949 We have amazing people in our history that we can look back in and say, wow, 380 00:25:48,979 --> 00:25:51,320 you know, these things happened, right? 381 00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:56,830 But, but how are we so, um, you know, how are we, how are we missing 382 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,190 these really important pieces? 383 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:07,445 And I'm so glad that you You know, beyond your program have taking a, 384 00:26:07,685 --> 00:26:11,795 uh, taking this so seriously and going, hold on a minute, you know, 385 00:26:11,815 --> 00:26:17,085 we've got to, we've got to make, make this a possibility for people. 386 00:26:17,895 --> 00:26:22,934 Now I want to maybe, um, um, we'll, we'll wrap up in a minute, but I 387 00:26:22,935 --> 00:26:24,455 wanted to talk a little bit about. 388 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,840 What you see, and this is something that, you know, you might have some anecdotes 389 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,510 or you might have some students as examples, or just, you know, in general, 390 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,160 your students going through this program, they're creating these portfolios, 391 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,740 they're doing these reflections. 392 00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:47,320 Can you give us some sort of like example, some colors on what are 393 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,960 the results like has have there have students, you know, gone through this 394 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,860 and going, wow, this changed my life or. 395 00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:56,520 Wow. 396 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,060 And now I do this and that, um, like, can you give us a little bit of that? 397 00:27:00,070 --> 00:27:05,169 So that people like, I think that there's still this like illusion 398 00:27:05,339 --> 00:27:10,119 that, well, if you're starting to become a mechanic, you can fix it. 399 00:27:10,199 --> 00:27:11,239 Um, okay. 400 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:12,279 Like we got that. 401 00:27:12,550 --> 00:27:14,110 Um, if you studied. 402 00:27:14,345 --> 00:27:15,145 Liberal Arts. 403 00:27:15,325 --> 00:27:16,764 What are the results? 404 00:27:16,814 --> 00:27:20,475 And I'm talking about both the tangible, like, Hey, maybe, you know, 405 00:27:20,485 --> 00:27:23,514 what jobs or what fields can they go into, but also like, what else 406 00:27:23,514 --> 00:27:25,075 does it, does it come with that? 407 00:27:25,084 --> 00:27:28,044 We just, that, that correspond to what we've been talking about, 408 00:27:30,495 --> 00:27:37,115 I think for me, um, I said before that I teach first year seminar and first 409 00:27:37,115 --> 00:27:42,685 year seminar is where we introduce the Liberal Arts Corey portfolio to students. 410 00:27:43,175 --> 00:27:45,019 And for me, yeah. 411 00:27:45,610 --> 00:27:53,830 What I love is students begin to see themselves as whole individuals. 412 00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:02,380 They begin to understand that When I'm exploring my major, I'm 413 00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:08,400 exploring the world and I'm exploring myself so that they begin to make 414 00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:11,100 internal and external connections. 415 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,099 So then, you know, the reflect is, of course, prompted by 416 00:28:17,099 --> 00:28:21,564 reflection, but the imagination in. 417 00:28:21,925 --> 00:28:24,935 The innovation I can see sparked in students. 418 00:28:26,025 --> 00:28:30,545 So, when we talk about things that students don't expect to hear about, 419 00:28:30,565 --> 00:28:36,154 because in my case, they're science majors, it's like a flower opening up. 420 00:28:36,155 --> 00:28:37,584 It's a really beautiful process. 421 00:28:40,075 --> 00:28:41,434 You feeling okay, Tonya? 422 00:28:42,705 --> 00:28:44,025 Feel free to take your time. 423 00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:47,705 You choked up there, really, thinking about your students, I think. 424 00:28:50,525 --> 00:28:55,054 For those who are listening, Tonya, I think, choked on a little bit of water, 425 00:28:55,054 --> 00:28:57,015 so she'll be back with us in a minute. 426 00:28:57,634 --> 00:28:58,784 But I could see how it's getting. 427 00:28:58,784 --> 00:29:04,774 You know, I can also, yeah, you know, I think about the student 428 00:29:04,814 --> 00:29:09,234 last year who was the representative for our graduating class. 429 00:29:09,684 --> 00:29:09,954 And. 430 00:29:11,315 --> 00:29:16,565 That was one of those experiences as an educator where you really say, Yes, 431 00:29:16,575 --> 00:29:18,835 this is this is what we're striving for. 432 00:29:19,365 --> 00:29:23,864 She was a student who graduated from our Liberal Arts, social 433 00:29:23,875 --> 00:29:28,454 science and humanities major, and she was transferring. 434 00:29:28,715 --> 00:29:30,665 to become a biology major. 435 00:29:31,624 --> 00:29:36,084 And I was just like, wow, this is exactly what I want to happen. 436 00:29:36,334 --> 00:29:41,154 I want a student to realize that no pathway is closed off to them 437 00:29:41,434 --> 00:29:44,284 because they chose the Liberal Arts. 438 00:29:44,465 --> 00:29:49,885 And so she was going from a non STEM major into a STEM major. 439 00:29:50,324 --> 00:29:55,174 And she talked about, she was interviewed by, um, the university, 440 00:29:55,245 --> 00:29:56,824 um, student life office. 441 00:29:57,134 --> 00:30:03,325 And she talked about, how valuable she found the Liberal Arts program at 442 00:30:03,325 --> 00:30:08,925 LaGuardia in exposing her to different ideas across different disciplines. 443 00:30:09,244 --> 00:30:12,195 And I said, Yes, this is my perfect graduate. 444 00:30:12,204 --> 00:30:15,675 This is what I hope to accomplish that here we have a student who 445 00:30:15,694 --> 00:30:18,204 could without any prompting from us. 446 00:30:18,475 --> 00:30:22,325 I had no idea she was doing this interview until I saw it published that 447 00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:29,520 she could talk so fluently about how exposure to multiple ideas in multiple 448 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,370 courses across the Liberal Arts major was really valuable to her development. 449 00:30:34,570 --> 00:30:39,750 And she could then transition from this major into being a biologist because 450 00:30:39,930 --> 00:30:44,590 having experienced all the different, um, disciplines that we introduced her 451 00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:49,950 to, she could settle on, okay, yes, this is the one that inspires my passions 452 00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:52,459 and makes me want to, to learn more. 453 00:30:53,010 --> 00:30:57,290 And I hope she never loses that in whatever it is that she eventually, 454 00:30:57,750 --> 00:31:00,410 you know, lands on in her career. 455 00:31:02,290 --> 00:31:05,469 Um, I could also tell the story, because I was trying to think, because I have 456 00:31:05,470 --> 00:31:10,720 not taught, um, well, upper level, 200 level courses in a while, LaGuardia. 457 00:31:11,150 --> 00:31:17,190 But I actually had, um, a scenario this past, um, summer where I had a student 458 00:31:17,390 --> 00:31:20,380 who was finishing her associate's degree. 459 00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:25,750 At, um, at LaGuardia in deaf, in, um, deaf studies. 460 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,600 It's a Liberal Arts concentration, right? 461 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,090 So it's a Liberal Arts degree. 462 00:31:30,770 --> 00:31:34,350 And, you know, she's like, you know, I need to finish, I'm going to, you 463 00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:36,210 know, finish the degree to Oklahoma. 464 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,280 So she took it as an opportunity to, you know, come here and we started talking. 465 00:31:42,460 --> 00:31:46,260 And like I said to her, well, what are you going to do when you go back to Oklahoma? 466 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:48,300 She's like, well, I want to be a translator. 467 00:31:48,330 --> 00:31:50,690 I'm like, yeah, is that it? 468 00:31:51,069 --> 00:31:56,620 You know, she was telling me the story how every Sunday she was going to a, um, 469 00:31:57,669 --> 00:32:02,089 uh, a church with, um, deaf congregants. 470 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,890 And I was like, let me tell you, girl, if you were going to write a master's thesis, 471 00:32:07,305 --> 00:32:12,605 A sociological thesis on religion and the deaf community, I would read it, right? 472 00:32:12,605 --> 00:32:14,755 And she's like, I'd never thought about that. 473 00:32:15,145 --> 00:32:20,195 I mean, you know, it opens up possibilities instead of saying, okay, 474 00:32:20,195 --> 00:32:21,635 I'm going to be a deaf translator. 475 00:32:21,655 --> 00:32:25,094 Well, how could you engage with the world and understand it in 476 00:32:25,095 --> 00:32:26,609 ways that you never thought? 477 00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:27,450 possible. 478 00:32:27,810 --> 00:32:31,300 And that's just one small example, but I mean, you know, she wrote me a 479 00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:36,140 lovely letter saying, Oh, thank you so much that, you know, class that she was 480 00:32:36,150 --> 00:32:40,480 literally taking in her last semester, all of a sudden opened her eyes. 481 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,669 Like, I wish I knew this at the very beginning. 482 00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:47,339 And yet I hope again, there was that little sort of, as we say, imagination 483 00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:51,630 and possibility that the Liberal Arts provides in that one student. 484 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,399 That is so lovely. 485 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:04,305 Um, Well, I, I feel like that's, first of all, let's try to invite some of these. 486 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:09,440 Students and graduates so that we can have more conversations with them as well. 487 00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:12,830 So we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna talk to them too. 488 00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:16,970 And we're gonna, you know, so the people can, can see from your 489 00:33:16,970 --> 00:33:20,379 perspective, how you think about it, but also from their perspective, right? 490 00:33:20,779 --> 00:33:24,339 Um, I think that would be a great, um, some great follow up conversations 491 00:33:24,339 --> 00:33:25,919 that we should, we must have. 492 00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:30,459 Uh, but I also want to just say how grateful I am that you 493 00:33:30,479 --> 00:33:32,199 three are here to share these. 494 00:33:32,565 --> 00:33:40,335 Different perspectives and how grateful again and thankful that I am to have 495 00:33:40,335 --> 00:33:46,154 the opportunity to work with you all and seeing what you're able to, to 496 00:33:46,154 --> 00:33:48,445 accomplish, uh, with your students. 497 00:33:48,455 --> 00:33:57,145 These are like really very seriously inspiring highlights and, and I, um, I 498 00:33:57,145 --> 00:34:03,565 am, uh, I am just so, um, amazed by the continuous drive to continue to do that. 499 00:34:03,715 --> 00:34:09,215 And I think it's because your institution has that Liberal Arts, 500 00:34:09,955 --> 00:34:12,755 um, foundation as driven by that. 501 00:34:12,755 --> 00:34:17,354 I think you had mentioned earlier from Gail Mello, who my met years ago. 502 00:34:17,354 --> 00:34:18,534 And she's amazing. 503 00:34:18,535 --> 00:34:20,635 She has created this amazing culture there. 504 00:34:20,994 --> 00:34:23,574 And, and you all think in this way. 505 00:34:23,914 --> 00:34:31,330 Um, and I, I just, I just love that, um, for folks who don't know, um enough 506 00:34:31,330 --> 00:34:34,860 about LaGuardia Community College, please Google them, check them out. 507 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:41,440 Um, they, this is what a wonderful institution, um, and for folks who, 508 00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:48,029 um, who, um, are not, who, who may not have been exposed to what Liberal 509 00:34:48,029 --> 00:34:49,910 Arts education can do for you. 510 00:34:50,745 --> 00:34:55,775 Um, check out that paper, you will see, you know, I think you'll be inspired 511 00:34:55,775 --> 00:34:59,815 just like I did, even though it's a, it's really written as an academic paper. 512 00:34:59,825 --> 00:35:04,315 I think I thought it was, um, you know, suitable for anyone to read. 513 00:35:04,775 --> 00:35:09,594 Um, uh, you may not, you know, need to read every little piece of it. 514 00:35:09,594 --> 00:35:13,695 It's a long paper, but there will be enough that you'll get a lot out of it. 515 00:35:14,055 --> 00:35:20,055 Um, and, and this stuff that, you know, Dionne and Tonya, and Demetri are sharing. 516 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,440 They're not just, you know, things that are, you know, just nice 517 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,770 to have, and they just happen to do it for fun, for no reason. 518 00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:33,300 You know, this is backed by lots of research, lots of efforts, and huge 519 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:37,980 amount of commitment by dedicated people who have found their meanings. 520 00:35:37,995 --> 00:35:42,115 The life and have, have dedicated that purpose to building these so that 521 00:35:42,165 --> 00:35:44,095 other people can enjoy it as well. 522 00:35:44,385 --> 00:35:47,985 And so I hope that you all go in and check this out and congratulations 523 00:35:47,985 --> 00:35:49,724 again for all your successes. 524 00:35:49,765 --> 00:35:52,855 I, and I hope that we get to talk again soon and we'll get some of 525 00:35:52,855 --> 00:35:56,364 your students and graduate to come on this and then we'll have you guys to 526 00:35:56,364 --> 00:35:59,625 come on this afterwards as well, and then, and then see how they all go. 527 00:35:59,865 --> 00:36:00,165 Okay. 528 00:36:00,205 --> 00:36:02,025 We'll, we'll keep, keep in touch. 529 00:36:02,435 --> 00:36:03,785 Thank you so much. 530 00:36:04,025 --> 00:36:05,405 Thank you so much for having us. 531 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,790 Here's a preview of what's coming up next in part two of my conversation with Tonya 532 00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:16,159 Hendrix, Demetri  Kapetanakos, and Dionne Miller from LaGuardia Community College. 533 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,890 So being able to question and really choose what is valuable and what 534 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:25,880 matters is something that Bucknell has really, has allowed me to practice.