Does he deal with it all on his own or does your dial friend?

Does he go somewhere and get some help?

I think it's more likely he got some help.

There's some very strong indicators that there was someone there who had extensive knowledge about forensic awareness.

I'm Ashley Hanson, and you're listening to episode fifteen of Deer Rochelle, the final episode of this season.

Thank you for following this live investigation into the unsolved murder of twenty three year old Rochelle Charles.

For twenty four years, per killer has been on the run.

Every listener, every piece of information, and every new witness with us closer to the truth.

We began this episode with the voice of FBI trained criminal profile at Chris Illingsworth.

She's been working on a profile that Rochelle's killer may not have been acting alone.

Soon, you're going to meet a forgotten witness whose crucial information from that night could help strengthen that theory.

But his statement could be sitting in an officer's notepad collecting dust in a police archive.

First, let's go back to seven Mile Beach GIRoA.

This time I'm with my colleague Patrick Carline, and we've come here at the exact time Rochelle's burning body was found more than two decades ago.

Market is so quiet, isn't that?

It's only our light it's hiding up this area.

Yeah, it's pitch black and.

You cannot see a thing.

No, but you know the trees are above you, don't you.

You can hear the surf in the distance.

You can hear the ocean.

Yeah.

I was here for about twenty minutes before you got here.

Not a single car pass.

And this is about that's what twenty am.

It's the same time as Rochelle's body was detected on fire.

And it just feels like the loneliest place in the world, wasn't it.

And it's raining like the night that.

She was killed.

That's right.

I just think that.

The killer knew this spot and knew this area.

Well, it's still strange spot to pull up on the side of the road.

Even though we.

Haven't seen any cars, it's still risky to have your car.

It's very risky the moment a car come, you're and you're being cited, aren't you.

And perhaps that's exactly what happened.

In the hours before Michelle's body was detected.

There were what three or four separate.

Sightings of a car that matches on the side of the road, a man standing over a body in one of those sightings.

It's high risk, but against that, it's so lonely here and so.

Dark, isolated.

It's just us and the elements.

Really, let's just go in and see how difficult this tank is to find in the middle of the night.

Well, there's a track that leads down increase, he remembers that brand.

This track leads to the beach.

You can hear the ocean, you can.

It's a sort of dull roar, isn't it in the distance.

Here's the tank.

Yeah, at the time it was that concrete lid, yes, and so a little higher, so it would have probably been a little more noticeable.

You could all classes for me.

To come here and just stumble on this spot.

The killer knows this area well, is familiar with this road, has probably traveled it many times before.

I think there's something brazen too.

I mean, we're only eight meters or nine meters from the road here, it's not that far off.

Look.

The frustration for Rochelle's family, obviously is even now so long afterwards.

There are so many lingering questions.

There are so many facts that haven't been feeled, except for the very obvious fact that this should not have happened, and whoever did do things that led to such evil in this place really should have been put in the cage a long time.

Ago, and that must be galling.

And you know, there are so many words to use to try and describe that haunting that they must feel.

I don't want to stay here any longer than is necessary, So let's get out of here.

Let's hope we can bring Christian answer answers after all of these years.

They need them, and they deserve them, you sure do.

We've spoken to hundreds of people to get a better understanding of the weeks, days, and hours leading up to the night of Rochelle's murder in June two thousand and one, and the missing nine hours on that fateful night.

New witnesses have come forward to help us piece together this tragic mystery.

We've tracked down experts to analyze the brief of evidence with fresh eyes.

The phone has been running hot, and our email has been inundated with people who want to help.

Hi.

Hi, how are you?

How are you good?

That's some very pleasing email.

I got from you.

Yes, it's I think it's hard evidence, to be honest.

That's exactly what it is.

Yes, tell me more about it.

Who is this guy?

Look, apparently he's the only court credible, independent expert on phone digital data and he's done a lot of big cases like the Mushroom cook trial just here in Melbourne.

He's up on the stand for a couple of days, oh, I think two or three days just the other week.

He's sort of internationally recognized.

He's a superstar of phone digital data.

Soon after my call with Patrick, I was on my way to Adelaide.

So my name's Matthew Surrell.

I'm a digital forensic scientist and professor at the University of Adelaide and Digital Forensics.

I've been working with mobile phone networks since nineteen ninety eight.

To date, I've worked now in about four hundred cases for law enforcement, for prosecution, for defense, mostly criminal matters, occasionally some civil matters, dealing with a diverse range of digital evidence.

I was asked by South Australia Police to assist in the first case in the world where we had Apple Watch data as part of a murder investigation, and these days routinely.

I deal mostly with mobile networks and the records that we get from mobile networks.

I deal with the fact that you're holding a phone that you carry everywhere that's recording everything you do, and how can we use that information to better understand what happened in the context, particularly of a crime.

We're really interested in how we can model not necessarily where you did go, but where you could have been.

We've talked a lot about key locations like Picton, Camden, Campbelltown, Tarmil and Bargo.

If you're not familiar with these areas, it might all sound a bit scattered, but let's give you a lay of the land.

Picture high steep hills, lush and green covered in trees.

That's the rays about Razorback Ridge cuts across the MacArthur region in Sydney Southwest is a defining feature of the landscape.

Standing at the lookout on top of the ridge, you can see for miles to the east lies Candbell Town, a growing city about an hour from Sydney CBD.

To the west, the rolling farmland stretches towards Picton and Camden.

The technology that we're going to bring to Rachel Charles's case is two things.

One is that we're using what's called a digital twin, so we can model the topography around Picton and around that area to see where the radio signals can reach.

The problem with field measurements is I can say, yes, if you are at this location, you could connect to that base station, but it doesn't answer the reverse question, if I connect to that base station, where could you have been?

And so it's a very biased question.

When we look at the area, particularly around Picton, in a three D digital twin model, we can see everywhere that radio signal could reach, but also where it couldn't possibly reach, and that gives us a better objective insight into what's possible and what's not possible.

That's the first thing I'm going to do.

The second thing that we have is a model that looks at movement.

So this is now, if I see somebody at this location and an hour later I see them at that location, there's sensible question is how do they get from here to there?

And you can use Google Maps, you can use any of those tools and go, well, here's the fastest route that shows that it's possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean you took that route.

So we've been thinking about that problem and we've recast that as not how did you get from here to there, but where could you reach in between.

You will remember from Rochelle's inquest, Peter Singleton had a strong interest in mobile phone calls linked to Rochelle's boss, Kevin Stephen Corell on the night she went missing.

For transparency, we don't have all the call records in mobile phone data connected to Rochelle's case.

Some of that information has been redacted in the brief of evidence we have access to, but we do have detailed information about four key phone calls to and from Kevin's mobile.

Kevin made a call at six oh eight pm to a number almost identical to Rochelle's, but he wasn't forthcoming about that phone call until he was reminded about it in a police interview.

That call connected to a person in Queensland.

Doctor Currell has a theory about that call.

Back in the day, you didn't have a contact list in your phone.

You had a contact list on your SIM card and it would only saw about one hundred numbers, so you would be pretty selective about what those contacts were, and it's a bit tedious to get them in there.

For those of your listeners who are old enough to remember typing in where you've got to use the one two three keypad and typing a text message alone, typing somebody's name in, it's quite a tedious process.

So it was really common.

You didn't actually have all of your contacts in your sim card, So the idea that you enter that number, you type it in because you've memorized it.

We don't do that anymore.

But I was.

Speculating if you deliberately tried to contact Rachelle and got the numbers around the wrong way.

That was really common at the time because we just didn't keep phone numbers in our.

Kevin told police after finishing work at Camden Holden, he went straight to Campbelltown to go shop it.

To do that, he'd have to travel over the Razorback Ridge.

He's an actor, voicing part of his statement to detectives.

I obviously didn't get through and never bothered it again.

So obviously the reason irang just was something to do with work relation.

There was no answer he was engaged or something, you know, whether it was a sale or whether it wasn't a sale, or whether the people were coming back.

I can't recall, so it wasn't relevant.

I don't think we supplied doctor Cyrell with mobile phone data maps.

From the brief.

What you've told me so far is about four telephone calls that were made from the main suspect, and you've identified in that information which base station that connected to.

And what struck me immediately was the first first call at six o eight pm from a base station in Picton at a time when our suspect says that he was in Campbelltown, and I took one look at the map and went, that is unlikely.

I don't think it's possible.

And as we've modeled that, as we've gone into understanding where the radio signal's gone, our conclusion is that that alibi that he could have been in Campbeltown, it's just impossible.

Just could not happen.

So then it leads to the next question, WHI says, if he wasn't in Campbelltown, where could he have been?

Now I want to investigate that a little bit.

Today we're in his office and doctor Currell is talking me through his analysis using three dimensional modeling maps.

Do you believe that the modern technology that you have access to could help to solve for Shell's case.

I think you can drive us forwards.

Whether it actually solves it is a different matter, that's really a legal question.

But what we can do using modern digital models of the environment as well as road conditions and that sort of thing, we can identify what scenario is applausible and what or not, and that may very well be something that drives this case forward.

No promises but best efforts.

So our analysis will show you what's possible.

And some of the things that might be possible might appear to be incriminating for our main suspect, but we also need to be open to the possibilities that provide alternative explanations.

We know that the dealership and the suspect's home address is up here in Camden.

We know that he says he was in Campbelltown when he made the six Z eight phone call.

Phone call connects via Picton, and Picton cannot possibly reach Campbelltown because we've got the razorback bridge in the way, and unmodeling shows that the radio signals simply can't get past that ridge, so the alibi is broken.

Further, if he were in Campbelltown at six o' eight, i'd expect one of these neighboring bay stations around the Campbelltown area to pick up that connection.

So I'm quite sure about that.

At six o' eight, where was he, Well, he could have been in Picton, southern Picton, he could have been in Tarmoor, he could have been somewhere in between.

If he was as far south as Bargo, then it's more likely that the Yanderer bay station would have connected that core.

So that places the six o eight phone call in this sort of area, Picton, Tarmil.

I'm sure about that.

The alibi is weird.

Why Campbelltown?

Why at six o eight?

Why?

Why be so adamant about it?

Why place yourself so far away from Picton?

That question bothers me because the alibi seems to make no sense to me.

There was always this belief that the six eight phone call made by Kevin Correll was highly unlikely to have been made in Campbelltown.

You've taken it one step further.

Can you prove that this six o eight phone call was not made in Campbelltown all that area?

So there are two things that point to it being impossible.

The first is that if the phone were in Campbelltown, there's half a dozen bay stations in the Campbelltown area which are much closer, which would provide that coverage in that space.

Now, it is possible that you can connect to a more distant base station under some bizarre geographical circumstances, and we do see that in modern records, but we're already dealing with the that's very highly improbable.

When we actually look at where the base station is in Picton, it's on the wrong side of the Razorback Ridge.

And when I say the wrong side, there is no way that radio signal can get over the ridge and connect into Campbelltown or more importantly, the other direction.

The phone itself doesn't have enough power for that signal to come up over the ridge and diffract back to the base station.

That signal would just not be detectable.

So we can demonstrate to you today that that radio signal just isn't possible, and that even if it were, there are base stations around that would pick up the phone, half a dozen of them between Picton and Campbelltown where that connection would have occurred.

So there's two different things.

We can show that there's an alternative, but we can also show that this is just not physically possible to occur, and so on that basis, I have to conclude, and I rarely concluded this strongly, that connection just can't happen.

Impossible, just impossible.

The seven thirty eight PM occurred via the Neurellan base station.

Now, the Neurellum base station is very close to where the Holden Dealership was, where both suspect and the victim Rochelle worked.

But he has to be in that Camden Neurellum area at seven thirty eight.

And what about the seven forty three phone call?

Where did that connect to and what are the possibilities of where he could have been?

So that was Allo so via NERELLM.

Now I haven't seen the antenna directions for that, but seven thirty eight and seven forty three are in the same general area.

If the phones moved in between, it hasn't moved very far.

So those three later phone calls are likely to suggest that he was in those areas where he says he was.

Yes, So the six thirty eight connecting via Picton, his story is that he was in Picton and that lines up.

But seven thirty eight, seven forty three he's connecting in Norellan and that makes much more sense that his phone is in that area around nerellm could be at or close to home in Camden, or could be at or around the Holden dealership where he worked.

It is possible that after work he may well have gone into Campbelltown.

Just from an investigative experience, which is limited, most alibis have an element of truth or truthiness about them.

But in order for this phone call to occur at six oh eight, he's got to get from Campbelltown all the way down to Picton.

That's about a forty minute trip.

So this seems to be a rushed visit to Campbelltown if it occurred at all.

But why so adamant that he's in Campbelltown when the call occurs in Picton.

As we piece those pieces together around the movements that he has given us, particularly being in Picton around six forty five until just before seven, that fits the next phone call.

Why is he so careful to say that he's not in Picton at six o' eight or south of Picton at six o' eight.

That's weird?

Was he in fact at seven thirty eight seven forty three?

Is it possible?

You know, we know he connected to Nirellam.

Was he close to home?

Was he close to work?

Was he in the suburbs around here?

There are no other known phone calls from Kevin's mobile that evening.

Rochelle's last known contact with anyone was just after five pm while she was driving home from Camden.

It's belief she made it home to Bargo nine hours later.

Her burning body was discovered one hundred kilometers away at seven Mile Beach, GIRoA.

So the killer and Rochelle have covered a lot of ground.

We don't know where she was killed or at what time.

Keep in mind, there was a lot of suspicious activity with a car described as a similar model to Rochelle's blue hold it in and around GIRoA over a four hour period, but her car was found parked by someone out the back of the Bargo hotel.

It's also very likely the killer needed petrol during the night to fill up Rochelle's car if it was to make it to the South coast, and also to light the fire.

So we've looked at the movements after two o'clock in the morning.

We know that Rachelle's personal items were dumped on the road to Bury.

That indicates a westward movement.

We know that there are two routes that you can take to get back to Bargo, one through Woollongong, one through Bowrel.

The fact that the car moves west first towards Bury, and the fact that going that way and up the freeway up the HU Motorway takes you through fewer highly populated areas, I would suggest that's the more likely route is to go up that way.

We need to also remember that whoever did this knows their way around not only Bargo, but also Picton, also Camden, also GIRoA.

We're not relying on the electronic maps we have these days.

We don't have a GPS unit in our car.

We don't have a smart phone with an app that gives us the fastest route.

These were the days where if you wanted to drive from Sydney to Melbourne right, you'd go into the NRMA and that give you the strip maps that would take you on the route.

You had a street directory in your car.

That's how we worked back then, and that street directory probably only covered Sydney, it probably didn't cover all of New South Wales.

So you're dealing here with somebody who knows their way around this area.

That's an important insight to consider.

You shown me transcripts from the coronial inquest, and I have to accept that at face value.

My preference would be to see the primary documents that Vodaphone supplied to investigators.

Christy has been asking the coroner for the withheld sections of her sister's brief of evidence weekly for months on end.

So as you guys know, we only have a small part of the brief.

I have been trying for probably about eighteen months now to try and get the full brief.

The mum and I, being the senior next of kin, requested the entire brief and the autopsy report, which we also don't have, and that request was denied because the coroner said that it was an active investigation at that point in time.

It was not, so I spoke to the police and they eventually said that they would actually support us reading the entire brief but not having a copy of it.

So my understanding of that would be that we would need to go to the court and we'd be given access to it, but you know, we wouldn't have the ability to take copies or take it with us.

Then we're really happy about that.

So the unsolved homicide support us having access to that, so we put through another form to the coroner with their support.

And this has been going on for a couple of months now, where I call them weekly and speak to a different person every week, and I am told that someone will call me back, and no one does, and then I speak to a new person, and then they can't find the form, and then they don't have the email, and it's been a really frustrating process.

And I still don't have access to the rest of the brief or the autopsy report.

And I think that'll lot of this comes down to the processes that the coroner's court users.

It's like it's in the dark ages.

If you ask me, some of the other information Christine, our team are keen to examine includes police interviews, call records, forensic reports, and dozens of statements.

Would you be happy to participate in any future court proceedings involving Rochelle's case.

Well, I've worked on four hundred cases in the last eight years.

This one's a little older.

It's using technology that we decommissioned by twenty sixteen, but it's a familiar space.

It's within my professional remit but it's also within that remit of justice.

So the consulting, the work that we do is about justice and closure.

So with the appropriately appropriate evidence that has the right provenance, then we can move this forward.

And would you be willing to help New South Wales Police some Rachelle's case.

Sure?

This is a technology that I grew up with professionally.

If those records exist and they need a new pair of eyes on them, this is a really familiar space.

I'd really like to see if we had them the records from Michelle's phone, because that would tell me where she was approximately at these different times as well.

Could doctor Currell's analysis be a piece of hard evidence detectives need to finally change someone After all this time, New South Wales Police quietly reactivated Strikeforce Tee Lap the investigation into Rochelle's homicide in January twenty twenty five.

In the last eighteen months, the Dear Rochelle podcast investigation has uncovered new leads and witnesses, including an alleged walk and share sighting, suspicious newspaper clippings found hidden under harpet, and disturbing allegations linked to the prime suspect Kevin Correll.

What action, if any, the Unsolved homicide Squad is taking remains unclear.

But when it comes to police and cold cases, silence isn't always stillness.

Bear in mind Kevin Correll strenuously denies any involvement in Rochelle's murder and has never been charged.

He has willingly participated in three interviews with police and provided his DNA to investigators.

A coroner presiding over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding, go shut and go.

It's the distance we've got it before.

No, we're not.

That's a bit of a crazy Basward.

Oh go go you good thing.

You put in a second Here to go sideways.

Here you come, Dear Shelle.

I don't think i've written your letter since my eulogy, or maybe the letter I put in your coffin.

I think I remember us putting in a packet of smokes and a bottle of gym bem too.

I talk to you a lot, so it's weird writing your letter that I know the whole country is going to hear me read.

But here goes.

Just like my letter to Dad at his funeral, I have five things to say to you.

Number one, I'm.

Sorry I'm so sorry I was too caught up in my own teenage world to call you back.

It is my biggest regret.

I'm so sorry I wasn't there at home waiting for you, talking to you about your day, finding clothes for you to wear, feeding the animals so you didn't have to after working all day.

I'm so sorry I wasn't there for you like you always were for me.

I'm sorry I didn't take more notice at the time I thought you were okay.

I didn't look around enough or take notice of what was out of place.

I'm really sorry that.

The world now knows every single detail about your life and that you definitely have no privacy.

Speaking of sorries, I'm sorry your car looks like a rough, old piece of junk.

I'm sorry it has DNC in it, that the pain is peeling off it, and then I haven't decided what I'm going to do with it.

Lastly, I'm sorry I haven't caught him.

I'm sorry he has had more years of freedom after taking your life than you had years on earth.

So many people carry regrets about Rochelle's case.

Remember Mick Ashwood, who reviewed Rochelle's homicide investigation.

In two thousand and three.

My personal regret is that I didn't lead the investigation.

I wasn't one stage asked too.

But my workload was meets team and the tasks has probably carries about two or three of these complex homicide investigations.

I remember I had about five and I was just drowning and I was working in different parts of the state at the time, and I just said to my boss.

I can't do this on and.

So a lot of regrets, but what was very difficult was in my position previously, I was not able to discuss outside the New South Wales government these things, and some senior counts will believed, on a simplistic version, thought that he could solve it when there's so many processes in place at the time in crime agency and then stay crime come under stop that sort of thing happening.

That's subjective male bias.

Just to be clear about what you're saying, are you saying that Rachelle's case may not have been solved because of misogyny.

Yes, and I think misogyny and people call it in simple terms myle lego, but there's many layers to that.

A misogyny is you have a male leads a homicide case, A male is the supervisor, a male is a superintendent, a male is the deputy commissioner, a male is assistant commissioner.

There's not much chance to getting understanding our bias when we just used to walk into a room as men with considerable authority and power.

You're in when you're a detective.

So the reason for coming to this podcast is too is that after many years in the public service, I can see an opportunity now that this could be sold.

I've seen that now with a couple other podcasts in the past, and I think the committees should get behind them.

It's still solvable.

Why is the unsolved homicide squating your South Wales so underresourced?

I think it's this is my opinion, it's an evolution of a worldwide across Western democracies to have an unsolved homicide unit because there were so many cases were unsolved.

As a percentage, it's not that high, but they're often the child homicide, sexual homicide, serial homicide, organized crime.

They're the hard ones.

I think it's ninety five to ninety eight percent solved by the local police within forty eight hours.

But there's ones like this where there's clearly been staging involved with her vehicle and her body.

You've to eliminate that someone else became involved in moving the body after the killer.

His killers go through depression after they've killed someone, and their behavior changes.

I also asked counsel assist in the coroner, Peter Singleton, how detrimental was the lack of homicide involvement in the very beginning.

Potentially significant.

One can never know what the alternative facts would have been, but there were.

I think it's fair to say a number of defects for the original police investigation.

Do you think the failings in the beginning of the investigation has led this case to be unsolved for over two decades now?

I think it's contributed to that.

No doubt, my own inability to crack the case as also a contributing factor, and there will be other factors.

But in the end, my job is just a question people.

I don't want to excuse me deficiencies in it.

But the most important evidence it doesn't come from lawyers.

Most cases are solvable, and very often it is because the evidence is gathered in the first couple of days and that opportunity was lost here for some evidence the coroner attended to her formal legal duty.

I should add this, she did make recommendations, and she made a very, if I may say, with respect to her honor, a well crafted recommendation for improving police investigative procedures, the thrust of which was that the homicide squad needed to be involved from the beginning in such a matter, and it needed to decide whether or not to hold onto the matter or to delegate an investigation to local police.

Do you think it's possible to solve this case after so many years?

This case is probably solvable, but it's unlikely to be solved.

If it's going to be solved, probably somebody such as yourself, as just re examining the whole thing with a fresh eye, will spot some pattern or some piece of evidence that the rest of us overlooked.

I'm hopeful that will happen, but it's not likely that any new evidence will be found because it's too late for forensic evidence.

In all likelihood, there's always the possibility of some forensic evidence, but it seems unlikely.

It's highly unlikely that the murderer will ever tell anyone.

Do you have any personal regrets about the way that you handled Rochelle's inquest.

In a broad sense.

I'm sure that if I had worked harder, perhaps been a little smarter, But I think one can't help that.

But one could have worked a little harder and maybe got a little bit further with it.

I'm not saying I could have cracked this case, but no doubt I could have done better.

You and your family would have had a lot to do with Peter Singleton throughout the inquest.

Yeah, how do you consider him and his work that he dedicated to the case.

He's incredible, incredibly intelligent man, so thoughtful and insightful and professional.

He worked really really hard and he was really really lovely towards us.

We had a really good relationship with you go and have breakfast together and things like that.

Yeah, he was fantastic.

He's one of many men and women who have lent their voice to the podcast just in general.

What does that mean for you to have all these people speaking out?

Wow, it definitely makes my heart happy.

And I think even in death, she's that that there are so many people who just want to help and get justice for her.

It goes to show the impact that she made even in death and the impact that her case and the injustice surrounding it has had on everyone involved.

Finish they finish, Stop Stop Number two.

I miss you.

I miss you so much that sometimes that can be physically painful.

I miss your smile, I miss your wit.

I even miss you rolling in like a tornado at six am, stealing my clothes and swearing at the iron.

I miss how you could read me like a book, how you knew exactly what I needed and what to say to make me feel okay.

I miss our talks.

I miss how we would sit there and pick on poor Mum and laugh at Dad for forever falling asleep anywhere he stopped.

I miss those barely laughs, the chaos and the energy brought to my life every day.

I really miss having a big sister to protect me, to watch out for me, and to just be my rock.

How much have you missed her over all these things?

I missed events and miss everything.

Even when Christie got married, she should have been there.

You know, that's a big one.

I just loves the family moments and occasions that she was very missed.

I don't know.

She would just light up the room when she walked in.

She was hilarious, really caring, but.

She just constantly did things that crack you up.

She would fill in one of those vegetable things in a fridge with a punch or something.

You just go straight to the thing and poor you drink from that.

Oh, I can't even think there's so many.

She just made you laugh.

Kay, Yeah, I just get him.

Come around this corner?

O number five?

Is it the hairy corner?

It should have been handed the fastest luck.

Come on fellas they put their best driver.

In number three.

Thank you.

Thank you for bringing me out of my shell, for showing me how to laugh at life and enjoy the hell out of it.

Thank you for teaching me to have gravel in my guts and to stand up for what's right.

Thank you for protecting me and for loving me even though I was a pain in the ass.

Thank you for the memories and for being my best friend.

Thank you.

Rochelle was a best friend to many, like Fiona and Lisa.

She would have been a great mum.

She would have been surrounded by animals, all the horses, dogs, She would have had it all so I think she would have been a country girl at heart.

I finally went and visited Shelle's grave On.

Sunday, I sat down next to her.

I cried.

Then I felt a sense of peace come over me, and I got up and I left feeling sad, empty, lost, and resolved that I'd finally gone to visit.

Security guard Craig Duck will never forget the night he found Rochelle, and like a growing number of supporters, he now has the words Team Shell int on his chest.

I'm now going through PDSD.

I feel for her mum and dad, her family.

I have had nothing, but every year I just think for her family and what they're going through.

And I wish I could have been there sooner for her, but I couldn't.

I wanted to help.

I just want to be there for them.

I know I've seen the bad side of it and they probably don't want to know that, but I just want to send my love and candole answers to them.

Christie's best friend, Mindy Wicks, also has a Team Shell tattoo.

She's been unwavering in her support of Christie and relentless in her quest to find answers.

How proud are you to be a part of something like this that could potentially lead to a breakthrough in the case, Yes, big.

One, I'm proud of you, though, does she cry?

Yeah, there's moments in life that you not so proud of and those that you are.

And this is probably right up there.

What would it mean to you, as Rochelle's mum to know that someone was held accountable for her murder?

It'd be great, awesome, But I just really am annoyed it.

They've had twenty three years of life and she'll die when she was twenty three, and they've been living having a lovely time, and we haven't had her with us.

That person has taken so much from us.

It's taken everything from Rochelle.

And yeah, the fact that they get to walk around and enjoy life and have.

A family and achieve things, it makes me sick.

It makes me really mard actually, but ye'll try and keep a lid on that.

What do you think Graham and Rochelle would think about you and Christy doing this podcast and driving this campaign for justice?

They'd be amazed.

That's softer Christie, because she's she instigated all of this, and they'd be very very proud, very proud.

But yeah, just own me away.

I've told her that here we have Rachelle Charles suiting up for a qualifying stint.

Is it going to be a blinder if I get the fucking hell on.

Number four?

I hope we have made you proud.

I hope you were proud of me, Mum, mindy Ash and the ever growing Teamshell.

I hope you love the voice we have given you and the way the country has fallen in love with you.

I hope you are proud of all the beautiful women who have come forward to tell their painful stories to help us find justice for you.

What a powerful voice we have given you, just as loud and as bright as you were in life.

He took your future, but look how you have found a way to still shine.

If that girl with me, my mother would have fought tooth and nail to get justice.

Ah.

If I can do anything that is going to put him away and stop, he would still be doing the same sort of thing.

It's not about us, it's about getting her justice.

Now our time's over and he can't hurt us anymore.

He doesn't scare me at all anymore.

I just couldn't stand the thought I thought that poor mother and her sister and her father are going through.

Not if I can help in any little way.

It'd be probably one of the good things that I've done in my life.

Talking about how much I love my dad and the good things that most people wouldn't know.

It feels horrible, it hurts.

It hurts a lot too openly declare this, but it needs to happen.

We're just cooling the car down.

He's asking Christians, drop a set han is there?

It all happens.

You got your little speito, you got some seats, but you got it all.

It's okay.

Number five.

I see you all the signs.

I see them, the number plates, the feathers, the numbers, and the people that you place in my path.

I can feel you with me, which sounds batshit crazy, but you're there.

I feel close to you again.

I feel closer to you than I have felt in a really long time.

And I won't stop fighting for you.

I won't stop pushing, winging, advocating, finding fighting, making noise, throwing tantrums, and being annoying until one of two things happens.

A A life sentence is handed down or B I die.

Don't worry if B comes before A team shell will take over until we achieve A.

It was always about you, sheell, never about the story.

You are so much more than the end.

Of your life.

You are so special, so brave, so funny, loyal, kind, and so loved.

Ohmen, go ahead, lose it.

Lose it, hey, Bob, here we go.

Love your smelly love, krusty.

Lasting the words before you go out on the track, go hard or go home.

And this is the beginning lesson.

We're gonna watch, Chelle goes.

Wh that's good practice.

Dear Shelle.

I hope that what we're doing here sits okay with you.

It doesn't sit right with me at all.

It's purely a matter of necessity.

It breaks my heart yet again to have your life shared with such a massive, worldwide audience.

Yet in the same breath, it warms my heart as I read your families, your friends, and even strange as beautiful thoughts, words and experiences regarding you and how you were in life.

You are such a presence.

I'm sure both you and Dad are so so proud of Chris and team shall and what they've achieved in the last twelve months.

They won't rest until someone has been held responsible, made accountable, and brought to justice for taking you away from us.

So early.

You most definitely did not deserve this bubbs.

So bear with us, my beautiful girl, as we navigate our way through.

We all love you to the moon and beyond.

Love MoU.

Bear with us too.

Behind the scenes, our investigative team has been working furiously chasing new leads.

The paperboy from a tiny coastal town just north of GIRoA has come forward.

Damien Luna and I went to meet Matt Wilson at Gerngong in the hope it will trigger his memory from twenty four years ago.

How quiet is this street usually at one thirty in the morning.

Our did, Yeah, luck, so you drop a pin, I said, I can hear a car coming from the top of the street or even stunt from the top of their coming down.

So it's yeah, pretty quiet.

And usually once I hear something normally up and about, just you know, a look, just to see what's happening.

What were you doing at the time.

I was employed as a delivery for the papers, so I delivered the papers to the customers.

I caught it the grave yuts for sixty hours late at night, twelve o'clock one weeks to five five thirty in the morning.

Take us back to that night in June two thousand and one.

What do you remember well that night?

I remember the seventh was the first day night.

It had been raining pretty essentially up home, and I decided to come down early to get the papers off the street before the rain got tour So I got down here about eleven thirty at night, which is an hour before that I would normally arrived.

We know Rochelle, her killer and her car likely covered more than two hundred kilometers that night.

And just like every phone call, every stop, and every sighting is pivotal, what the paperboy witnessed that night Rochelle was murdered could spark a major breakthrough in the case.

About one third in the morning, rough guess, because twenty four years ago is a long time, and I just heard a bit of a noise.

The car was going over the Potestian crossing up there, so I decided to.

Get up have a good look at the door.

I was looking up the street and I look up and I noticed two cars that coming down the street.

The first car was a dark blue Commodore in the windows mag wills and had a black plates for fire.

Writing on the recollection, I'm pretty sure GV two thousand on the plate on it.

GV two thousand, that's Rochelle's number plate.

I sort of set back a bit because I noticed the vehicle behind was probably a car to carve behind it so reasonbly faced so they wouldn't see me deliberately looking at them.

I also noticed that.

The car in front looked like a mile figure in the dragon's seat.

But that's all I could see.

The darkness and the weather wise.

The second car, I don't know what model it was it was today.

The color again it's been so long, yellow all red.

It wasn't brown, blue, pink or whatever.

It was yellow red.

I just got those kind of stuck.

In my head.

How vivid is that night in your memory?

Very vivid.

I remember a lot of the details, down to like it was cold, being rain, inflections of the road, dead sides.

Yeah, we'll see how noises when cars go pass?

Now?

Is it unusual for one third in the morning for two coming down here together?

And you would know that because you're you're out here work and that's.

Quite rarely.

Being so Yet you mentioned you had this instinct to duck when you saw that second car.

What just the way they were traveling like it looks like they possibly could have been together.

And usually my incident is, well, you know, there's two cars, one person in the shop.

I don't want to draw attention to myself, so that's why I sort of step back with it more and look like I was looking at the shelves.

Were you working in the shop alone?

Yes?

Yes?

When did you realize it was a significant sighting?

Well, a couple of days after Rochelle was found down Draw they did a news conference on the news and we're down having dinner and I just said to my mum and dad, that's the car that I saw comfort jairing and I said the plate.

How soon did you go to police after Roselle's murder?

Probably it might have been a couple of days of maybe.

A week when you saw that police appeal.

Yes, yeah, when I saw the appeal on the TV, and you know they were floating the photo about the car around and.

You recall are you telling an opposite your version of events?

I told him my version of events.

And you recall signing that in a notebook.

A notebook, a notebook, It wasn't typed up in any well.

That would probably be that it was a uniform constable at the front counter of a police station.

Otherwise, under a criminal investigation a type statement would have been taken.

So you know it's probably if it hasn't come into evidence, it's probably that notebook's probably been filed.

How hopeful are you that that statement still exists?

Oh?

Absolutely, still there.

It's in that place.

It was his notebook.

You have to their accountable they call what they call accountable books in the police force.

And once your book is exhausted, you have to have a new one.

You issued a new one by a muse inspector.

That's handed back, been given to the public servant staff and they index that number and they filed away and it's boxed up and sent to archives.

This is really important information.

In the early hours of Friday morning, Matt, the witness sees and recalls a blue Commodore coming down this freight behind me, traveling south about one thirty am in the morning.

Now we know Rochelle's body was found shortly after two am on the Friday morning, and that would mean and it's not far from here, so critically important.

Here is a timestamp of what he saw at the time and as we know by the time you get from here down to where the crime scene was, where Rochelle's body was found.

It just shortly be before two am, and thereafter security guard found her body a light in the scrubland on the Crooked River Road.

How significant is Matt as a witness in this case?

Absolute?

Critical?

How would you describe the information that Matt has so kindly shared?

Compelling, believable, accurate, and it has stayed in his mind because he saw something on that night and that it made him to look out onto the roadway and then he sees the homicide days later in the media and he said, that's the car I saw, and he quickly tells his mom and dad at dinner time, and then within a day or a few days later, he's reporting what he saw to rebel a police station.

And it's critical because we have the time, what weeknight it was, and within half an hour Roselle's body being found.

Do you think that unsolved homicide squad would be keen to speak to Matt?

Absolutely?

Thanks for coming forward, my pleasure.

I just I wish I did it sooner.

You know, well, you did the right thing.

You didn't come forward, I.

Honestly, like one says I didn't get no confilmation back with the report.

I just can't know.

Well, yeah, I should have been no.

No, no, you did the right thing.

But as I said, this is so important to these cold cases where this evidence comes to light that may have been mislaid or misplaced during the initial investigation.

And this, now you're your what's your witness is so important and crucial because as I said earlier, it gives us the time, It gives us a time of night, a day, and also within a half an hour of Brousselle's body being found not far from here, and it's with an easy fifteen minute drive from here.

So it just puts it so significantly appropriate at the time that he saw a car that mat sort that those two cars traveling down this road, particularly one of them, we know more than likely and more than highly likely it's Chelle's.

Police are currently enhancing CCTV from the night.

So now this possible two car theory, will that be something they'll be looking at?

Oh absolutely, I'd say so yeah, And you'll be silly not to.

You know, you have to eliminate that second vehicle, and we know that the first one.

Now what I've told me and yourself.

It has to be out of the possibilities.

It has to be her car.

So what's the significant interest of the second car if it comes in a play at all?

But you have to eliminate it.

Now, if that second car is related, does that open up more opportunities with CCTV for that car being located potentially spotted on a CCTV camera.

Getting the fuel Absolutely, because now we have not only one car, we're looking for two, and the investigation will be looking for similar make and model the car that match described, you know, even though it's a sedan, possibly two different colors.

But if they're seen in concert with a blue commodore in a service station somewhere and another vehicle pulls up beside it, it may be the case that that registration may be obtained through enhancement of any CCTV that the police may get hold of or obtained in the early days after the investigation.

Do you have to ask yourself were they traveling in tandem together or was it the fact that one car was traveling slow and the other car behind us traveling quicker and was trying to tailgate, trying to find an overtaking name quicker, Because as you know, this is a fifty kilometer hour zone through here.

It's a small street, it's narrow, and you're heading up to a long incline at one thirty in the morning.

Two of them together.

Is it possible, Yes, it is possible.

This is the first time we've ever heard of two vehicles.

But why does the second vehicle come into play so importantly when we know that Michelle's vehicle had been used because the club block was put on the wrong way, so it had to be her car being driven.

What wasn't it unnecessary to having two cars?

Could we be looking for two offenders?

Could be quite possibly, quite possibly, But you can't You have to really eliminate that second vehicle if it's going to be a vehicle of interest or not.

One person who won't be surprised by the siting of a second car is FBI trained criminal profile Chris Illingsworth.

In two thousand and three, she worked on Rochelle's case and it's stuck with her now.

As a retired detective, she's been looking over the case again and can offer a more detailed analysis about what she believes happened to Rochelle and the type of person or people who could be responsible.

She's now deceased.

He has to decide what to do.

I believe they'd be panic.

So does he deal with it all on his own or does he get a second does he dial friend?

Does he go somewhere and get some help.

I think it's more likely he got some help.

There's some very strong indicators that there was someone there who had extensive knowledge about forensic awareness.

Like the rest of us.

Chris is trying to figure out where exactly Rachelle was killed.

Firstly, the sheet that was found a couple of kilometers from the body obviously has something to do with the crime.

Has come from the rear of her car, and it was actually holding up the vertical spare tire in the rear boot.

So that sheet has to be and her cargo has to be close to the murder singe.

Because the sheet's not used, it's my understanding, my recollection.

The sheet's not used to drag the body at the crime site, at the body disposal site, like, no drag masks.

It was a wet night, no dirt, nothing like that on the sheet.

So the sheet's not got anything to do with the actual disposal site, but it's got something to do with the murder.

Then why not just leave the sheet there?

Why would you go to the effort of hiding it.

Why not just put the sheet back into the boot where it came from, next to the tire.

Who's going to be any the wiser.

So that says that this offender was very aware of the likelihood of physical evidence on that sheet and that sheep that evidence would be if DNA.

So the offender is very aware, I believe of these things.

It shows a very high witness in two thousand and one.

So to me, that speaks to criminality, a criminal seeking criminal experience, and if you don't have that experience yourself, then someone who you can call upon who does have that experience, and that person could be from the criminal meleu or could be someone who's involved in the criminal justice system such as lawyers would know this stuff and police.

Officers would know this stuff.

So I think the person's got help from someone who's got that sort of knowledge, and getting rid of the sheet is really significant both to the defender and in the crime analysis.

Most likely the offender is then well, I think he's got that second person to help, and the second has probably come to the location and there's been a decision made about what to do, how to dispose of all this evidence, and how to make it look like something that it's not.

And the something that it's not part is the staged car scene at the rear of Bargo Pub.

So that's stage.

We know it's stage because Rachelle didn't drive it there.

She didn't park it there, steering his upside downs, not the way she would put it, the car seats not in the right position for her.

And there's something else that I won't say on your podcast, but something else that strongly indicates that the offender that will actually approve that she didn't drive it, someone else did just there.

So the only reason to do that, to put the car there, would be to make it look like something that's not stage.

And the only people whose stage crime scenes are the people who feel that they can be connected closely to the victim and to the murder in some way, So they're trying to misdirect the investigation making by making it look like something that it's not.

All the experts agree Rochelle knew and trusted her killer.

Now we're asking did someone help cover it up?

Maybe they had no idea about what they were getting involved in.

It's a heavy secret to carry for all these years.

Did Kevin Carell lie about some of his movements on the night of the murder?

And why playing bikis You've heard Christy come back to the theory was Rochelle lured to her death with the promise of a Walkenshaw.

For whatever the theory or motive, justice needs to be served.

It's long overdue.

The injustice plays on all of our minds.

Look, I think after every episode we're getting closer to the truth and what really happened and who or those personal persons may be responsible.

It's about knowing that this twenty three year old girl and she's been dead longer than she was alive, and the parents and unfortunately her father's passed away, but Mum and Anne and sister Christian all friends have never had an outcome or closure.

And I think we owe that to not only to the community, but to the victims of crime that have experienced such a disastrous and tragic murder where the young girl, Rachelle was just basically dumped by the side of a rhodeset of light and that's callous and it shows no regard for human life and that motivates me to help.

And I'm always in particularly matters like these, that I'm happy to continue help and help where I can and look provide some expertise which I've gained as a detective and a police officer for over thirty five years.

And if that may help, well, I hope it does.

And I think I'm on the right track saying that, and I think it's important that we don't lose the sight of what the real objective is.

Any final thoughts, what keeps you up at night about this case.

I've got the brief, I read it daily.

I'll make little notes.

What happened that night?

Why did it happen?

You know she was feeling when all this was going on.

There would have been some violence placed upon her at the time, you know, she would have been attacked, fearful.

What was she thinking?

And what was in the mind of the killer or killers?

Why?

And that's what I want to know.

And as I said, we've got new witnesses coming for and one particularly that's explosive about what they saw on that Thursday night when Rachelle passed away.

You've got to wonder anyone else out there that knows something and saw something back there that's so important but hasn't come forward, And I just wish that this podcast will reach out to them so they can come forward.

It's a heavy burden carry for the rest of your life.

You know, you'd be constant in looking over your shoulder if you'd know something that you can assist the authorities with with the apprehension of the offender or offenders.

Please, for the sake of the family, for the sake of Rochelle, and for the sake of all victims of crime where we haven't had closure, please come forward.

It's ultimately up to police delay charges, and we know they've reopened the investigation.

With millions of people now following Rochelle's case, are those responsible for her life about to be exposed?

Could you hold the key to this?

Thank you to the experts and witnesses who will generously volunteer their time to participate in Dear Rochelle.

I'm especially grateful to have worked closely with retired Detective Damien Loon.

Because of those contributors, we've learned so much more about Rochelle, her murder, and the people in her life.

Finally, thank you to Rochelle's family for trusting me with their fight.

We're not done with our investigation.

We've got so much more work to do and as soon as we're ready, we'll be back.

So please keep these voices in your hearts and minds.

I'm a shit video recorder all over the choppe.

There you good thing.

You're putting a second here and go sideways.

Ye draft on.

In loving memory of my daughter and my sister shell Re.

We have one of the members I've Rockie team.

YEP, and the other and me.

Deer Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.

If you want to be one of the first to find out what happens next, go to Deer Rochelle dot com today you That's where eligible digital news called Australia subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence, feature articles and more.

That's deroshell dot com dot AU.

If you have any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to deroshell at news dot com dot A.

You.

Our supervising producer and audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain, his executive producer and audio director.

Our executive editor is Sarah Blake.

Our senior journalist is Patrick Carlin.

Video editors are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods.

Picture editors are Jeff dr Mannin and Christy Miller.

Send Your Camera operators are Daniel Andrews and Osca Viera.

We sound designed by Martin Perolta and Travis Evans.

Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Panerz, show Bareo Fayguld, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grise, Charlotte Carr, Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes.

Special thanks to The Daily Telegraph editor Ben English and Dear Rochelle.

Would not be possible without the help and I'm wavering support of Christian Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rochelle's friends.

This podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson