On this episode of Newts World.

Ahead of the two hundred and fiftieth Anniversity United States, the Heritage Foundation has launched a new website and interactive experience, the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites.

The website is historic Sites dot Heritage dot org.

They profile historic sites in the first thirteen colonies.

And I am really pleased to say that I help with this project with a focus on Gettisberg here to talk about the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites.

I am really pleased to welcome my guest, Brendan Hafera.

She is the Assistant director and research fellow for the Simon Center for American Studies at the Heritage Foundation.

Brenda, welcome and thank you for joining me in this world.

It's a real pleasure to be here.

Before we get into the Heritage Guide, I just have to ask you, Remema, how did you get involved with this and what's your background?

So my background is an American political thought.

I got to study primarily the American founding George Washington, James Madison, with a fair dose of history, of course, because those two things go hand in hand.

So I studied the American founding and that's my first and great love.

As I tell people.

So it really came out of that my personal experience of going to historic sites and like a lot of people, seeing that sometimes things had gone awry.

I think this is an important project, and I should mention that the Heritage Foundation is probably the pre eminent conservative intellectual center in the United States, a remarkable institution which I've been involved with almost from the very beginning.

It's totally appropriate that Heriage would tackle this project.

Describe for us the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites.

Sure.

So it's an online interactive map that's geared towards tourists specifically, and most importantly parents and grandparents and teachers thinking about leading class trips to historic sites across the country.

So the main web page is an interactive map that pinpoints notable significant historic sites.

We've just launched sites in the thirteen original colonies.

We'll be launching sites in every state plus the District of Columbia in early twenty twenty six, so people have time to plan your summer vacations and figure out where you're going to go to commemorate America to fifty this summer.

So that's the main page, and then each site as an individual page that offers book recommendations, that explains why the site is significant, That gives people a sense of what to expect.

You know, what are the main toures, what are the main exhibits there, So you're kind of giving some help with navigating the site.

And then considerations for families, because it's really geared towards parents.

Parents with young children.

You know, you might not consider going to this exhibit, not because it's inaccurate, but because it might not be age appropriate if you have young kids.

So drawing attention to that, and then also unfortunately the ideological problems that are sometimes occurring of sites that teach LGBTQ plus history and alerting parents and families to that content.

So that's the positive side of it, I would say.

And then there's the accountability piece that each site is given a grade of historical accuracy a B or C based on accuracy and comprehension, iological bias, and proportionality.

So the evaluations the individual site page also alert if there are historical distortions going on at the sites.

I think that's particularly important because under Obama and Biden there was a real effort to rewrite American history.

If you will take just a minute talk about the challenges you faced in dealing with that.

Yes, so this big project was a bit of an extension of other works.

So in twenty twenty two I released a report on Mount Vernon, Monticello, and Montpelier called the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, with Mount Vernon being the good, Monticello being the bad, and Montpelier being the ugly.

So very sadly, today, if you go to Montpelier there are no exhibits aimed at James Madison and explaining his contributions and accomplishments to the American experiment.

And that's a problem.

I would say, well, I would the board of Montpelier not be describing the person whose house it was.

So part of this story, I think is what's happened in the country overall that you mentioned.

Since twenty twenty two.

It's been described as the great awokening right of movements towards critical race theory, towards DEI revisionist history, and sites of museums have gotten swept up in that movement.

And then there's the individual story of what had happened at sites like Montpelier and Montpelier invited associates of the Southern Poverty Law Center in helping with the exhibits, and if you look at the curriculum of the SPLC and the exhibits at Montpelier, they're very similar.

And then there was a change in leadership where what was called the Montpailier Descendants Committee argued that descendants of those who were enslaved should have half the seats on the board.

But if you look at their guidelines, how they'd find descendants is those who are genealogical descendants, but anyone who feels connected to the institution, whether they know of a genealogical connection or not.

So it was really politically motivated, and they put together the s rubric a few years back on how to teach slavery engage with descendants at historic sites, and they say things like it's not enough to discuss the humanity and contributions of the enslaved, you also have to unpack and interrogate white supremacy.

So it's really the shift of we're going to tell history the full story to we're going to engage in political activism and use museums and historic sites.

To do so.

If a parent or grandparent taking their children around, if they turn to heritage, do you sort of help describe each of these in a way that gets them back to the original American meaning.

Yes, that's right.

So one of the advantages of this guide is we have sent evaluators whose background matches the particular site.

So, for example, a poet reviewed Edgar Allan Poe's house, and that's really lovely because it brings a unique perspective, a really valuable perspective.

But it also helps with that accountability piece, because when you go to historic sites, there are sometimes obvious distortions, like Montpelier puts forth that the Constitution is a pro slavery document and you might be aware of that, or other sites like Monticello claim that all men are created equal meant white property owning men, and so a casual visitor might say that's inaccurate and be aware of it, But then they're the unknown unknowns, right of No one can be an expert in all areas of history, and you're going to this historic site to learn, and you might not even be aware that things are a muck.

So, to give one example, at Montpelier, in their Constitution exhibit, they point to the domestic and Insurrection clause and say that's primarily about slaver volts, and it certainly would have applied to slaver volts, but the impetus for that was Shay's rebellion, right, because the founders realized that the Articles of Confederation were too weak.

They didn't have those basic police powers, and that was something they needed to include.

So there's that historical context.

And then Montpelier also lists five slaver volts to try and back up their thesis, and three of them happened after the Constitution was written, so they're those sorts of distortions were pointing out in the guide.

I should say along that line that the first real use of the Insurration Act actually involved Western Pennsylvania whiskey distillers, had nothing to do with slavery, and was an effort to challenge the authority of George Wallis Washington and the federal government, and Washington as a result, I think, called out thirteen thousand militia in order to convince them that they had to back down, which they did at that point.

But it had nothing to do with slavery.

That's right.

I don't know if you've ever considered taking everything you've already learned and really producing a book that says, this is what the woke left says, this is what historically happened.

I think that's part of what this project does.

The advantage of doing it online is it's easier to update, right.

There is a form at the bottom of each page that allows people to indicate if a site has changed since we were last there, so we can update it regularly.

We can keep up to date with things.

They can recommend another site that we should go to, or they can voice disagreement.

So that allows us to actually crowdsource some of this work to the American public, which I think is an advantage.

Part of what you mean by interactive is literally they can interact with the Heritage Foundation.

Yeah, that's right, as.

Well as interacting with the website.

Yep.

That's a good point you can reach us.

One of the great breakthroughs of Heritage over the last twenty five years is how much it's now a grassroots organization not just an intellectual organization when you go through this process.

In your opinion, how much is the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the desclosure deependence, how much will that increase public curiosity about American history?

And about how we became the country that we are.

Anniversaries are times to reflect and we all know the state of civic education.

Were aware of the statistics of For example, three out of four members of gen Z believe the founding Fathers could be more aptly described as villains rather than heroes.

So I think America two fifty is a unique opportunity to rediscover the American story, to rediscover our history, to revisit the principles that were dedicated to Calvin Coolidge gave a superb speech on the occasion of our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary, and he said something to the effect of, you know, there's no progress beyond the proposition that all men are created equal.

If anyone wants to deny the truth of that claim, they're not going to proceed forward.

They're going to proceed backward historically to a time where there's no individual rights, no consent of the people.

And I think that's a tremendous point, that these are eternal principles, that they're true, and they're true for all men at all times at Abraham Lincoln sets So returning to that history, I think is so incredibly important for us as a people.

It's really vital in a free society for citizens to have a sense of the core values that make up their country, because in dictatorships it doesn't matter much because the dictator doesn't care what you think.

But in a free society, having an informed citizenry is really really important because ultimately, if you're going to have government of the people, by the people, and for the people in Lincoln's formula, the people had better be pretty knowledgeable because they're going to have a dramatically bigger impact on their country's future than they would if they were in a dictatorship.

And I think what you're doing in that sense is really important.

Do you hope to see families actually sort of take this site and then use it to plan out a summer trip and be able to go around from historic site to historic site.

Yes, that's the goal.

So right now we have about forty five sites available on the website in those thirteen original colonies.

We're aiming to release the full map around February of next year, so the timing is good so families will be able to plan those summer vacations and figure out where they're going to go to celebrate America two fifty and there'll be about one hundred and thirty five sites at that time.

So this is a state driven project, and that's particularly because you know, we believe in federalism here at the Heritage Foundation.

We believe that there are a lot of sites, especially the local and state sites, that are still doing a very good job and stewarding our history well, and we want to recognize those sites.

And our hope is also that in doing it this way, that there'll be at least one site in every state.

Families will be able to find one that's within driving distance, right, because most families can't afford airline tickets to come to DC and go to the Smithsonians.

And also there's real value and going to the places where history really happened, right.

I like the Smithsonians.

They bring together history that occurred elsewhere.

But there's something about going to Mount Vernon, right, there's only one Mount Vernon.

This is where Washington really lived, and you get a sense of his character as you're walking through there and you see the paintings of the Potomac for example, and Washington really took up the Potomac River project, which was having waterways and roads that connected the country because he thought that was really important for national unity and to be able to converse and interact with your fellow citizens.

So these sites teach you things that you don't know.

They teach you things about the character of the American people.

Every time I'm there and I think about Washington literally physically being them, and this was his home, this was where he was a farmer.

You can actually stand where they stood, and I think it brings to life history in a way that just reading in the book doesn't have the same impact.

I completely agree there's something humbling about it.

To be in those locations.

It helps give you a sense of gratitude for the sacrifice of these men and women who built this country.

My personal experience, and this is again why I think this project is so important.

I remember going to Gettysburg when I was a kid.

Good things come from Pennsylvania.

I grew up in Pennsylvania and that was our historic site that I went to.

So thank you for reviewing that.

And I remembered seeing the cyclorama and how cool that was, and my dad thought it was the best thing in the world world, And he said, you know, we have to come back, and we have to spend six days here, so we can trace three days of the battle from the Union side and three days of the battle from the Confederate side.

It explains so much of how I am today.

But it sticks in your mind, right, Those things stick in your mind as a child, and you remember that experience.

Gettisburg, I think is just in terms of learning, one of the most amazing places to go and to see how the battle unfolded.

It's all physically right there.

You really can get pretty good sense of what happened on those three days, which were in many ways decisive about whether or not the Union would survive or whether we would break into two different countries.

To go to a place like Gettysburg, to realize the sacrifices that people made, their willingness to put their lives on the line for an idea, for the idea of freedom, the idea that our rights come from God.

It's I think, an amazing experience, and I think that the ability to go to the heritage website then think about what you want to do this summer or some future summer, and where you want to take your children or your friends to go and experience history is a very important public service by the Heritage Foundation, you are a key part of public education in a different way than we mean by bureaucratic school based education.

How do you see that as part of the Heritage Foundation mission?

So I think that's such an important point.

You know, civic education doesn't just happen in the classroom, and sadly these days happens in the classroom less and less so historic sites.

This is why they're so important.

There are places of public education where we go with our families to learn the American story.

And so this map as a whole is telling the American story through place.

It includes things like Gettysburg, Antietam, the battlefields.

It includes things like Edgar Allan Poe's house and Mark Twain's house, these notable figures, so literature and art.

It includes the spirit of American enterprise because they're the Right Brothers Memorial and we carry that forward to the Challenger and that's part of our DNA as Americans and what that says about us.

And I think that's incredibly important one for families because it's a touch grass opportunity that is coming increasingly rare that grandparents, parents and children can all do together and those real world activities are very very important, and it's important for the individual in that showing our children these heroes of something to aspire to it motivates them, right as opposed to always saying that you're a victim or that this country is not good.

And then it's important for our civic component.

Part of the reason these places are a target is that transforming them is a way to transform America.

It's not simply that Madison's home is about Madison and he deserves our gratitude.

He was a remarkable American who did a great deal.

But his home also stands for the Constitution, and that's part of why it's so important and part of why it's a target.

I do think in that sense that there's been a real effort on the left to undermine and deliberately distored and weaken the whole sense of being American.

Do you have that same feeling.

I do, sadly, a certain segment I think it is.

I'm still hopeful that it's a very loud and active minority.

But I do believe that it's a deliberate effort.

It's not simply a lack of conscientiousness.

I don't think it's just a random effort to get to a quote more accurate understanding.

I think it's an effort to replace the accurate understanding with a deliberately ideological bias that would basically create a false history and profoundly mislead us about how the world works.

And that's why I think what you're doing is fundamental to the survival of free society.

If we don't have some kind of grounded truth, we can't function in the long run.

And I think what Heritage is trying to do is reassert historic facts and historic truths at a time when there has been an astonishingly large effort by our elites to convince us about a false history and a false narrative as a country.

And that's why I think what you're doing is historically very important.

I completely agree we can't let go of the truth of equal human dignity.

If we let go of that, if we let go of natural law, I think we fundamentally change who we are as a people.

And I think it's absolutely correct that this is a deliberate effort.

One example of this is the Andrew Mellon Foundation is the largest donor to arts and humanities in the country, and they've dedicated five hundred million dollars to transforming our monuments landscape.

And they say it's very much from a postmodernist lens that we need to take down monuments because there are no LGBTQ plus individuals in the list of the top fifty people most often commemorated, So the top two are Washington and Lincoln.

And so what that would involve is removing statues of Washington and Lincoln to replace them with other people, which is not historically accurate at a certain point, actually inclusivity and historical accuracy, but against one another, and you have to make a choice of we can't bend history to make it match inclusivity.

That's not accurate, right, Lincoln and Washington did great things for this country, and so I think it is a movement.

And they say also in their guide, you know, we have a history of a people as taking down monuments, and the example they note is taking down the statue of King George during the American Revolution.

But I think it's important to point out that was a regime change, right, that meant a fun fundamentally different country.

And I think there are people that's what they're after, right, they want to transform the country.

No.

I think that's right.

And that's why Heritage and its effort to create a guide which allows people to see accurate history, is directly engaged in the survival of the United States as a country and as a culture and as a set of values.

And I think what you're doing in that sense is amazing.

Let me ask you one last thing, which is, if you look back, say, ten years from now, how will you know if the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites has been a worthwhile and effective project.

This is a very good question.

I think my hope is maybe to illustrate this.

I have three different visions in my mind of what could happen.

So there's the negative experience, which is parents take their children to Montpellier and the only exhibit for kids is one on race and Slavery.

To teach children about race and slavery with books, all of which were recommended by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and one of those books encourages children to imagine themselves not as the victim, but as the aggressor, whipping a slave into a quote his flesh cried blood, with a picture of a man hanging from a rope with his back bloodied from whip marks, and that's the experience that children have when they go to Montpelier, and it doesn't inculcate gravititude, it doesn't inspire them, it doesn't make them want to be strong and gracious individuals.

That's one vision.

The other vision is a vision where those things are simply lost.

Our historic sites are gone and there's no opportunity for families to go to them and learn.

And then there's the positive vision, right of being able to go to Mount Vernon and learn about how Washington formed an American national character, and being able to go to Monticello and learn about how Jefferson gave expression to the American mind, and how, in Lincoln's words, we owe all honor to Jefferson for introducing into a merely revolutionary document a principle applicable to all men and all times.

And then to go to Montbailier and learn how this Virginia scholar was first and foremost an American patriot and he became the father of the Constitution and made possible the miracle of Philadelphia.

That's what I want, and if we're able to do that for America's children, for the next generation, I will consider what or this guy to success.

Let me commend you because you have described a life of moral purpose which all of us can be impressed by and can aspire to.

And I should remind everybody everybody listening can go to historic Sites dot Heritage dot org and see the remarkable work that Brenda has launched, and can take their families and their friends and go to these historic sites and know that they have an introduction to them that is historically accurate, faithful to the American culture, and an important contribution to an informed, educated patriotism.

And Brenda, I just want to thank you personally for dedicating so much of your life to working to sustain America and help pursue the truth so every American can have a chance to learn what made a sense of remarkable country.

Well, thank you for being part of it.

It would not have been possible without evaluators like you who were willing to go out and defend the principle and the history and the country that we all love.

Thank you to my guest, Brenda Hafera.

Newtsworld is produced by Gingrish Sweet sixty in iHeartMedia.

Our executive producer is Guarncie Sloane.

Our researcher is Rachel Peterson.

The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley.

Special thanks to the team at Gingrish sweet sixty.

If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

Join me on substack at Gingrich three sixty dot net.

I'm Newt Gingrich.

This is Newtsworld.