Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.

I'm your host, Ingrid.

I've said this before and I'll say it again and again.

Anyone can be a victim of domestic violence.

Level of education, profession, and uniforms do not offer protection.

Today, Mia courageously joins me to share her experience as a law enforcement officer who survived domestic violence and intimate partner trafficking.

Here's Mia.

Hi, Mia.

This has been a while in planning, but I'm glad that you have finally made it and welcome to One in Three.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

I'm glad we were able to schedule it and get it together.

Yes.

And uh just a little background on the two of us.

We met doing the domestic violence rally back in October.

Uh between Did you do you know Cynthia?

Is that how you or was it um?

I actually know Jennifer Garcia.

Okay, that's what I thought.

I was going to say, I think it was Jennifer.

Okay.

Okay.

So uh if if listeners, if you haven't checked that out, I think it's still available, right?

On Facebook somewhere or something.

You know what?

I actually don't know, but I did post a little clip on my stuff too.

Um but I I don't know if it's still available.

I tried to look at the website and I couldn't find it.

So Okay.

I'll try to I'll try to find it and see if um if if we can get that back up in case anyone wants to take a look at it.

It was a long, a long, long, long and I was the very last.

Oh my gosh, you hung in there so well though.

It was for like four hours.

I was the very last person.

It was crazy.

It was crazy.

But it's so much good information.

It was.

It was really important too.

So I was like, I was good with it.

It was really interesting listening to everybody.

Yes, I agree.

I and yeah, so many good topics.

Men, parental alienation, women, trafficking, um, all sorts of things.

So uh okay, so that was our little connection.

But could you just give a little personal background, professional background, whatever, just a little bit of information on yourself so listeners can get to know you a bit?

Yeah.

Um, so I I've been in law enforcement for a really long time.

Um, I started in 2008, and I so I'd like to say that I have 17 years, um, which is crazy to say.

I took a little bit of a break though.

So I don't, I don't technically have 17 years.

Um, but it feels like it feels like 25.

Um and I have worked in patrol and I worked, um, I actually did some undercover operations and things like that too.

Um, and now I'm an investigator, a detective.

Um, so that's fun.

And I also investigate like sex crimes, domestic violence, trafficking, all the things.

It's busy and hard and a lot, but I love it because people are my jam.

I I love human behavior and I love, you know, helping people, and I feel like I can really make a difference in somebody's life, like in real time, which is probably what kept me in law enforcement.

But the crazy part about me is that I have lived experience with being in a domestic violence, um, intimate partner trafficking relationship, which while I was a cop, so usually that doesn't happen.

And I was very, very young.

I was a brand new cop.

Uh, he was older, lots older than me, and he was a senior cop.

So we had that kind of dynamic.

Um, but it's an interesting perspective because I have the perspective of being a survivor and law enforcement.

So I understand what both sides are going through.

Yeah, and you understand what it is like as a victim survivor trying to navigate the the whole legal system with and then and then challenges that you can face even as a law enforcement.

Yeah, and it's um it's really interesting because I I think for a big chunk of my career, um, you know, I always did my best and I always cared about people and I was always very compassionate to people.

But I think so it wasn't for a really long time that I actually realized that I was a victim, um, which is interesting, and we can talk about that too.

But um I think that once I tried to call on the system the way I had been working in it, so I tried to report it.

Um, yeah, I mean, the way I was treated was insane.

So not in a good way, um, which was really, really crazy.

And so it I think it really helped me as a cop because I was like, wait a minute, like we should we cannot be treating people like this.

You know, this is something that affects somebody's entire life, their family, um, their future, um, you know, just the way they move in life, the way they have relationships.

And sometimes law enforcement is somebody's first contact when they when somebody realizes that they've been a victim, or um, you know, right after an incident happens, and then we're treating them like they're liars, like we don't believe them that, oh, this couldn't have happened this way or whatever.

And it's I mean, it just compounds the trauma.

So a big part of what I'm trying to do now, um, I'm still in law enforcement, and everything that I'm doing now is just me.

Um, it has nothing to do with my agency or anything like that.

Um, it's just me, but I I'm teaching also and training and teaching and speaking, um, doing consulting and things like that too.

Um, I started the Valkyrie Warrior movement, um, and I decided to start that because Valkyrie Warriors were female warriors that they actually chose who um who was held in a in a really positive regard in I don't I don't know if it was a heaven or hell situation, but um, you know, they chose the warriors that they were gonna take with them.

And what I felt about it was that we can choose to be warriors for ourselves and that we can fight for ourselves, and we are warriors.

I mean, survivors are I mean, it's a crazy thing to go through.

And so I started that.

Um, and I am doing mostly training with law enforcement because I I really do believe in changing the narrative on how law enforcement sees victims and survivors, especially in trafficking, but also in domestic violence.

I mean, we have come a long way in domestic violence, but we have a long way to go still.

Um, trafficking, I think we have a long way to go.

I think we're starting to talk about it, but there's a lot of people that tell me in law enforcement they don't really understand it that well.

And so I'm I'm really trying to change the narrative because back in the old days, when I first started, um, you know, it was looked at as, well, it was prostitution, and prostitution was a crime and all of these things.

And, you know, what we've come to find out is really someone is forcing someone to do these things.

And so it changes the perspective on trafficking.

Um, and so I'm really trying to help change that narrative within law enforcement and also um, you know, this just the system, DA's offices, the medical field, um, even community organizations.

You know, there's community organizations out there that they're really helping people and they're really trying to help people, but they really do need a good grasp of understanding of what survivors are going through, but also the side of law enforcement, that what they need to help us and what we need to help them.

So it's kind of like bridging that gap.

Yeah, it's a whole network that needs to work together.

That doesn't always necessarily work together and there's no communication back and forth.

I'm a nurse practitioner, so I know the healthcare portion of it.

And it's it's very difficult to not already have some sort of a stereotype in your mind when somebody comes in to the hospital, your clinic, or wherever.

And without any actual interaction with domestic violence or trafficking, you will put those stereotypes out there.

You're you're trying not to.

Everyone's supposed to be treated equally, but you don't understand it.

And it's it's really hard to grasp.

I mean, I think I think it's a no fault to s your own or anybody, but it law enforcement does the same thing.

Um and I think it's no fault to anybody.

I think it's sensationalized on TV.

I think we have a specific idea of who people are and what people have gone through to get to that point or something like that.

When really, I mean, I kind of break all those stereotypes.

Um, you know, I didn't come from a deep poverty background.

I didn't come from um, you know, a background where I was being molested as a child by family members and things like that.

I didn't come from a background where I was running away and um my parents weren't doing drugs.

And, you know, I didn't come from that stereotypical what people think that that's you know how somebody ends up in trafficking.

Um I came from a regular middle class family and um I became a cop, you know, so that's not the stereotype either.

And I think that it's very easy to be involved in these kinds of relationships because, you know, I mean, I'm a parent, and I think that just trying to raise your kids, it's difficult because we try not to screw them up, right?

But things happen in growing up that your parents might not even have tried to do that may have made you feel like you were craving love or acceptance, or you know, you wanted to prove yourself to someone more than your parents probably intended you to feel.

And sometimes those vulnerabilities and those um weaknesses can translate into an adult world and cause you to seek that out in people.

And I personally think that there's predators, there's just predators out there.

And I think that they pick on it, pick up on it so easily.

Yeah, I also think and along those lines is they will pick up on individuals who want to make things work.

That, for instance, like family is really, really important to them.

So they know that that person's not just going to give up.

You know, they're gonna say, I need to keep trying.

We need to make this work.

Yeah, that was me.

Um, and I also had very good family morals and values where you don't, you know, I we I didn't grow up being taught you should be flaky in relationships.

Um, if somebody doesn't do something that it does something that you don't like, like not picking up their clothes or they're not, you know, whatever, you need to work it out.

You know, that was a big thing was work it out, figure out how to work it out.

Well, I do believe in that, but I also believe that if you're being hurt in the process, we don't need to be working it out.

Um, and I learned that the hard way, but that was the way I was brought up.

Um and I also think that predators look for people who are strong and they look for people who are charismatic and they have a lot of friends and they're lights to be around.

You know, they're they have this internal light that these people, these predator people, don't have.

And so they go, hey, I I want some of that.

And they it and I think it's also a challenge to crush those people down.

And I think that they feel some sort of I'm I feel better about myself now that I was able to crush that person down, look at me, see how much better I am than they are.

Yes, yeah.

It's they want initially, they want the person who's going to make them look good.

But then if that person starts looking too good, then it's it's a competition.

I actually would say this to my abuser, I'm like, what are you doing?

We're supposed to be a team, you're acting like this is a competition.

And he would say, This is a competition.

I mean, he would just blatantly say it, it is a competition.

And it's it's disgusting behavior, but it's I think that considering the two of us, you and law enforcement, me and the the medical profession, to become victims of uh well, you domestic violence and trafficking, but me, domestic violence, it just goes to show that there's nobody that is exempt from potentially being a victim.

Yeah.

And you know, it's it's still for me, it is still sometimes difficult, even hearing like being a victim of trafficking is really challenging for me because for a really long time I didn't see it that way.

Um, and I blamed myself for a really long time.

And I didn't even realize that was what was happening to me.

Um, and also there is a deep shame around those things, especially being in law enforcement.

You know, I should have known better, I'm smarter than that.

Um, you're a cop, how do you, you know, you go out and arrest these people, how can you be a victim in it?

You know, there's a lot of that.

So that's also a message that I I love to put out there is that we just cannot beat ourselves up.

And the public needs to not beat us up because we're beating ourselves up enough.

Um and also like I was a victim in something, but I'm not a victim.

You know, I'm not a victim.

I'm a survivor of it.

Um and in law enforcement we talk, and I know, you know, in if you work with victims in the medical field, we talk in victim, suspect, defender, witness, reporting party, all of those terms.

But, you know, I don't feel like I was vi I feel like I was victimized, but I don't feel like I'm a victim in this, which means to me I want people to feel sorry for me.

I want my life to be treated differently because something like that happened to me.

Um no, I survived it.

I, which is more, which I think is better than what they ever intended for me.

Um, because I think that the purpose was to keep me down and to keep me torn down.

And I I feel like resilience is the best revenge.

Um, but it's it's still challenging.

Uh, you know, talking about being a victim of trafficking is crazy to me.

And I think part of that stigma needs to go away if we really are going to listen to people that have gone through things like this, because, you know, automatically people go, oh, how did you end up in that kind of dirty situation?

Well, you know, it that's not always how it happens.

Um, and we shouldn't be shaming victims and survivors because they're they're shaming themselves enough.

We don't need to do it for them.

And also, like, it's the same thing as shaming domestic violence victims.

I mean, you trusted someone, you loved someone, um, you wanted to make it work, you were loyal to them, you cared about them and really deeply felt something for somebody.

Like, all of those things are really good things.

All of those things are positive.

They're not something, some dirty bad thing that you did.

I mean, this is these are all things that are, I think are should be held in a high regard in a relationship.

Um and when someone has that stigma of, oh, how did you, how did you end up like that?

It's like, you know, maybe you should be picking better men.

Like I hear that a lot.

Um, maybe you should be picking better men.

What I feel really should be said is maybe those men shouldn't have treated you that way.

You know, maybe they shouldn't have hurt you and abused you and took advantage of you because you have really great values and someone shouldn't have exploited that.

Yeah, I think it's for society, I think it's so much easier to blame the victim.

Because if you're going to blame the perpetrator or the abuser, then you have to come to terms with understanding that there are people out there that are so inherently evil that they're going to pose as this person who can be trusted and loved by this under other individual and then just flip around and hurt them worse than any other, than their enemy would.

And it is, I think it is just easier to blame the victim.

You're right, we shouldn't be blamed at all.

But uh I mean, unfortunately, that is that is the case.

You know, it's really interesting though.

That's a that's a really interesting talking point because I in my world, in law enforcement, we know.

Like we know there are those people.

We come across people like that every day who take advantage of people, who exploit people, who you know, some people I believe are just evil people.

They just do evil things to people.

So we know.

And I mean, the whole you should just pick better men, I've heard from men in my field who know that there's people out there that treat people like that.

So it's it's it's wild.

I mean, I agree with you.

I agree that society does that usually.

Um, and it's kind of like the the boogie monster that you don't want to acknowledge.

But it's really interesting though, because in my field, like really they should know better.

You're absolutely right.

I guess I never really thought of it from a law enforcement perspective because I think as somebody not in law enforcement, you want to make an excuse of somebody's behavior.

So somebody robs a bank.

Well, they were, you know, they had really hard times, the economy's bad, they had a family to feed, or they somehow got, you know, hooked on whatever kind of drugs, and that's you know, they're at their wit's end trying to feed this habit.

And you want to make an excuse for the bad things that happen as a non-law enforcement person.

Yeah.

And but yeah, you're right.

From from your perspective and and your colleagues, it's something that they should understand more.

Yeah.

I think too the longer that you that someone does my job, um, I think that you can get wrapped up into the, you know, people need to take responsibility for their own actions, right?

Um and I get that to some degree.

But I just don't think it's that simple.

You know, I think that because trafficking, domestic violence, sex assault, they're very intertwined.

It all it all has to do with coercive control.

Right.

I mean it's not that much different from each other.

And a lot of times domestic violence, sex assaults play into trafficking, trafficking plays into domestic violence, trafficking can play into sex.

I mean, you know, it it's all kind of intertwined.

So I just feel like it's really interesting when people I think that people want people to take responsibility for themselves.

Um but I think just in some circumstances, there's things that happen that the script gets flipped onto someone where it's like, well, you are the problem.

And so I think a victim really is trying a lot of times.

I know I did this, I did try to take responsibility for myself in those relationships because I if I was the problem, then I needed to prove myself to make it better.

And that was my downfall because that's how I got stuck in those relationships.

I constantly tried to prove that I wasn't the person that they were telling me that I was.

And have you have you watched the like the documentary on PDAD?

No.

So it's really interesting, and I think that that's a really good documentary.

Um it it's it's interesting from the point of trafficking and domestic violence um and sex assault, and the point of view that surv that society has on all of those things.

Um what is that on?

Um where can you find it?

Oh my gosh, I think it's on Netflix, the new one, it's The Reckoning.

Okay.

Um, I thought that was I watched both, but I think that one's a really good one.

Um it it's really interesting because he didn't get uh convicted of trafficking.

And you watch this and you're like, how can how is this not trafficking?

And even the jurors talk on there about, well, if it was that bad, she could have just left.

She chose it to some degree, right?

And I think that that is a point that we have to start having conversations around, is that society and professionals and you know, all the people want people to take responsibility for their own actions.

Like she stayed.

She she she said she wanted it at some point.

And I it's really interesting.

I was watching it and I was like, well, you know, her saying she wanted these things, wasn't that just like her surviving?

Yes.

Yes, you know, you get to the point where, and again, it's it's coercion, right?

So you keep saying no.

Yes, she was being beat up.

Exactly.

You say no, you get hit, no, hit, no, hit.

Eventually, you want to stop getting hit and you learn to condition yourself.

If I say yes, this stops.

And if I believe that this is actually what I actually want.

Or if I if I try to convince myself that this is, I guess I'm just this person now, you know.

Um I think that it plays into that.

I'm gonna prove to you these things.

Um, I think it plays into the I I I have to survive.

Like, I don't want to continue to get hit or strangled or whatever else.

Um but it was it was a really interesting documentary because it it taught it shows a lot about what society's view is.

And it I think it's it stirs questions within yourself of like, how do I really feel about all of this?

Um can you consent if you're being hit all the time?

Can you, you know, if if no one was really so my question was always, well, if nobody's paying him, right?

Because that's the that's what we think about trafficking, right?

It's it's straight up just exchange for money for commercial sex, okay?

And I've done a lot of research into this because I don't think that that's always how it works, right?

It can be anything of value.

Can his satisfaction of dominance and watching someone sexually assault her be a thing of value?

Doesn't say monetary value, but him having the control of providing her to people for status, for people continuing to come to him for things, um for his own fantasy, pleasure, whatever, um, that dominance over that complete control dominance over that person, can't that be a thing of value?

Yeah.

I mean, it can be, right?

You look at any other crime and you can see where their instant gratification is is the the prize, I suppose.

Yeah, I think that in law enforcement, I think that we need to have conversations with our district attorneys and we need to have we need to really look into the law and see, you know, what, especially in the courts, right?

We need to see what the court deems a thing of value.

Because I don't know if some judges or DAs will see, you know, the control and domination um a thing of value, but I I sure think it is.

Um, especially when you're being, especially if that's what your life is.

You know, that's I mean, that was what my life was.

He was very violent to me.

Um and he pretty much, I mean, I I said to him before, you know, you're just like the people that I arrest, and I'm just like the people that we are out there trying to help, and this is what you're doing.

And he was like, Yeah, either deal with it or shut up.

Um, or say something about it.

But it was always, if you say something about it, then I'm gonna take you down with me.

I'm also gonna get you fired because if you're involved in anything like this, then you know, you I'm and and it wasn't even the trafficking thing, it was the it was domestic violence.

I was a I was a baby cop.

I I know better now, but I didn't know then.

I thought if you were involved in domestic violence in any aspect, whether you were a victim or around it, I mean, any of it, that you were going to lose your job.

And to me, I I had moved across the country, I had left my family, I was alone.

Um, it was my career.

It was like the rest of my life career.

I had worked so hard in the academy.

I had busted my butt in the academy and got through it and, you know, was really proud of myself.

And then here he was saying, you know, if you report me, then I'm going to, I'm, I'm taking you down with me.

And I was terrified, you know, and that's part of the the coercion and control.

And then it was, you know, if I didn't want to sleep with someone else, or and he would, he would groom the people around us too, because he would um make people believe that we were living a certain lifestyle.

And I didn't want to live that lifestyle.

And we fought about it all the time.

Um, and anytime I told him I didn't want to, he would hit me and hurt me.

And anytime that we would, we would get in a fight, he would strangle me.

And I I mean, I didn't even know then that because we didn't talk in law enforcement, we didn't talk about strangulation then the way we do now.

Um, but I I could have died.

I, you know, I was close to death at times.

Like I didn't, I didn't even realize it.

And so when we fought about me not wanting to sleep with other people or be with other people, he would do those things.

And then could I really consent?

Like, could I really consent in that situation?

And what was interesting is when I tried to report it to law enforcement, they were like, Yeah, but the domestic violence, the the assaults, the even the sex assaults, they're past the statute of limitations.

And and I was like, Yeah, they are, you're right, but that goes into the other stuff.

Like you have to take that into the, we love the words, totality of the circumstances and law enforcement, you have to take that into the totality of the situation and go like that is what's playing into this other stuff.

You know, how can you consent when you're being beat up and strangled and almost killed all the time?

How can you consent to sleeping with other people for his gratification or you know, sex at all or a relationship with this person if you're being beat up all the time?

I mean, how do you that's you can't, that's not consensual anymore.

And then the the life he wanted to live was I'm going to dominate you.

You're gonna be submissive to me.

And so, like, to me, even that type of, and listen, BDSM, people live that life.

I have no judgments, but that's all consensual, right?

Swinging, BDSM, all of those things, they're all can when people do those things because they want to, it's because they want to.

It's consensual.

You you shouldn't have to get blacked out drunk every time you do something like that.

You shouldn't have to um feel scared or be worried if you're going to die if you say no.

I mean, that's not consensual anymore.

So that type of lifestyle, can that be consensual if someone's beating you up all the time if you say no?

I mean, you know, and those are the types of things that like as professionals we need to look at.

Because I think the con the thought process around it is like people can be swingers, people can live BDSM lifestyles.

Like that's not illegal, you know, and it's not.

And if people want to do that, great.

But not when it's there's force, fraud, a coercion in there.

That's what makes it a crime.

Yeah.

So is that the the lifestyle that he was trying to say tell the other people who got involved that they were okay?

Yeah, and that he and at so at some point I was like, I guess this is just what it is.

Like I didn't, it's funny.

When I first became a cop, I was I I thought I was not naive.

I was 21 years old.

I was like, oh no, I know, I'm a grown-up, you know.

But now I'm like, I was pretty naive.

I didn't even know what swinger swinging was.

I didn't even know what that was.

You know, I I didn't live in a big city.

I was from a small town.

I was like, I didn't even know what that was.

You know, so he he tried to make it this thing.

Um, and he groomed everybody around us to think that this was what it was.

And it wasn't.

It was a crime.

Did anyone you encountered during that time frame, did anyone ever try to, did they ever notice that you were not happy or there was something wrong?

Did anyone try to intervene to help?

Um no, but I people at work noticed.

So when I first um would go to work, I was I was like that baby rookie cop who was so excited to be at work, so smiley.

I would I'd go to work at like an hour early to get my car ready and like get everything ready for work.

And I loved going to work.

Um and people would even say to me, like, why are you smiling so much?

And I'm just like, I loved it.

I'm so excited to be here.

And then probably a couple years into it, um people would just be like, You're you just look so tired.

You just look so tired, and you're just like not smiley anymore.

And no one ever like talked to me about it.

And and I I think I go back and forth because a lot of times I'm like, well, maybe if somebody would have said something or intervened or whatever, but I don't even know if I was so like loyal that I don't even know if I would have even taken the help.

I think that it would have taken him getting arrested, um or me getting killed to probably or me probably going to the hospital.

Um to like I knew it was I knew it was wrong though.

Like I knew it was.

I think I was just so at some point I was so far in that I was like, I guess this is just what it is now.

Like I I I don't even care anymore.

Um, which is a really sad place for people to be, especially like knowing me now.

Sometimes I look back and I'm like, I don't even, I don't even know how I could have turned into that person.

Um but it's slow, and you know how it is.

It's not like, hey, we go on our first date and I'm just gonna slap you in the face.

Like everybody'd be like, uh, peace out, you crazy psycho.

I'm gonna go call the cops now.

That's right.

You know, and people are always like, Well, why didn't you just leave?

And why didn't you just call the cops?

And and by the way, cops were called.

Um, but you know, why didn't you just leave and why didn't you just call the cops?

And it's like, yeah, because at that point I just was like, this was my fault.

Right.

You know, well, yeah, I mean, your your your reality is twisted and twisted and twisted and turned upside down so many times that you don't know who is to blame anymore for anything that's happening.

Yeah, and he took advantage of me being young, me being in a new place, me being naive, me coming from a small town.

I mean, I would get told constantly that you're not, you're not how men want women to be.

You know, you're you're not a real woman if you don't do certain things, you're not a real woman if you don't look a certain way or dress a certain way.

Um, and if you don't do it, I'll just go find somebody who will.

And and for me, that was like, I should have just, you know, now I've been like, then please go find someone else.

Um because that's like everybody's thought in their head when I say something like that is like, why didn't you just say, like, yeah, go find somebody else?

And that should have been my reaction.

But I was young and I was like, I really like this person.

And he spent a lot of time in the beginning, like telling me how much he cared about me and how um how great I was, and how he was going to help me as a cop, and how he was, you know, he was such a great guy, and he was so charismatic, and everybody really liked him.

And I was just enthralled as a young woman and also as a young cop, and there was a lot of things that were intertwined into it.

And I think that in law enforcement, that happens a lot.

It happens a lot, it happens a lot where there's older cops, higher-ranking cops, where they, you know, these new rookie women come in and they just it's almost not every one of them, but there's almost this weird predatory thing that goes on.

And these young women are like, look at this established, well-liked, um, great, everybody likes this person, guy.

That like, I want to have a great reputation, and I want to be connected to this per person because you know, I want to be looked at like they are, and you know, all of those.

There's so much stuff that goes into it.

So, how did you get out?

Um, I physically removed myself and moved back across the country.

Yeah, it's terrifying here.

Yeah.

Um it was it was really hard, and I would love to say that one violent incident was the last straw, but I think that it was more emotional for me.

It was the realization that this person that I was trying so hard to make love me didn't really love me, because that's not what you do when so you love someone, that I didn't really like who he was, that if we weren't married, that I wouldn't have been even friends with him, um, that he was never going to treat me like his family.

And I think it was more of an emotional realization.

Um, and I wasn't even who it was, I wasn't even myself anymore.

I was exhausted.

I was constantly exhausted.

I was not doing, I mean, I never, I didn't get in trouble in my job, or I didn't like, I think I was still a good cop, but I wasn't doing the things that I wanted to do.

I wasn't on the you know trajectory that I was in the beginning.

And I think that there were moments that, you know, I didn't want to go to family gatherings anymore.

I didn't want to go out in public anymore because I had to explain why my eyes were always puffy from crying, and I had to explain why like I just looked so tired all the time, and I was just like tired of it.

And so I didn't want to like go do things anymore.

And I think that there was times where I was just home, sometimes alone, and I was like, I just can't do this anymore.

I think it was more emotional, but I I did have to, and it was getting more violent, but um, I did have to actually physically remove myself.

And when I even when I did physically remove myself, it took a very, very long time for me.

I mean, he had me, I had to text him every hour.

Um, otherwise, I I must have been like cheating on him or I must have been like doing something wrong in our relationship.

That was what his how he twisted.

And I was like, well, I I don't, I don't cheat, and I'm you know, I'm not that person.

So yeah, I'll I'll a hundred percent.

And text you like, I have nothing to hide.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

And that's how that manipulation went into it.

But when I left, I would still text him every hour and every hour.

It was like crazy.

It was like this weird clockwork within my body.

And like I would still go to text him.

And it took me a really long time.

Um, and that goes into the the conversation about, well, I don't understand.

Like after he sexually assaulted her, she went out to lunch with him.

It's like, yeah, like trying to make it normal, number one.

Right.

And also, like, if it had been happening for a really long time, it, you know, I I've gone to therapy for a long time, and I had to talk to a counselor about this and go, like, I will like look at my phone.

Like, it's this weird like body reaction.

And she was like, it's it's like being addicted to a drug.

Um, and I've never done drugs, so I I have no idea, but I I imagine that's what it feels like.

And it was like, I it was we it was very strange.

It was like I had to look at my phone, I had to like go to text him.

But I was like, why am I even, why am I texting?

I'm not in a relationship with him anymore.

I'm not even like in the same state anymore.

Like it was very odd.

Um, but it took a really long time for me to like deprogram some of that stuff.

And then it also took me a very long time to deprogram that that that life, that lifestyle, that person that was involved, that's not who I actually am.

That wasn't who I was before that.

Um, and to like figure out actually who I was again.

It took a long, I mean, like probably over 10 years.

Well, especially because you were so young when it started happening too.

So you're right at the the time where you're actually figuring out who you are as an adult.

And then he swooped in and created this other identity for you.

So it's it's hard to it's hard to do all of that.

That's a lot of work that you have to put in.

You know, and I I know because, and I'm sure that you get this too.

The biggest, the biggest argument from people who have never been in a situation like this is like, well, why didn't you just leave?

Or I could never imagine myself in a in a relationship like that or a situation like that, or you're so dumb, or you're, you know, you make bad decisions, you make bad choices.

Inherently, that's who you are.

So in my training, this is one of the analogies that I love to give people because I I've heard it a lot from women, but I've also heard it a lot from men.

And I I think probably just because I work with men mostly.

Um, but I always tell them, you know, so imagine that you're in this relationship.

You're in this brand new relationship and you really, really like this girl.

And she, you know, she gives you attention and she she likes you back, and but you just really want to impress her.

And so, and you're the guy who like you love your t-shirts and ball caps.

Like you're that guy, right?

Like you just are like, this is what I'm comfortable in, this is what I feel like I look sexy in, this is what I feel like I, you know, have confidence in.

This is just like I'm that guy.

And you meet this girl and you really like her and you want to impress her, and she likes you, and she's really popular, and you're just like, man, I just really I want to be in this person's life.

And she says to you, Well, you know, I really don't like those t-shirts and ball caps.

And actually, like, would you just try like this button-up shirt for me?

Just try it on.

I think it would look really good on you.

And you're like, yeah, like I'll try it on, sure, whatever.

Compromes, right?

Compromise in relationships, right?

Put it on and she's like, oh my gosh, you just, you just look so good.

You're so sexy.

You just, you look like you have way more conf like you look put together.

Like you just, that's the person that I want to take out and go and show to the world.

Like, I really love you wearing these button-up shirts.

And you're like, oh man, I feel really good in this button-up shirt now.

And then time goes by and months go by, and you go to your closet and you just don't have any t-shirts and ball caps anymore.

Like, how does that even happen?

But you're never the person who could get involved in a relationship like that.

And I know it's a totally different, like it's a very different extreme.

I get that.

But the point is, is that when people say, like, how could you ever, I would never abandon who I am.

How did you, how would you ever end up in a relationship where you just are like, well, you go against everything that you ever believe in?

You must believe in those things.

That's the rationalization for it, right?

It's like, I I say I'm not that kind of person, and they're like, well, you obviously are, because look, you're in this relationship and this is how they treat you, and you're okay with it.

But it doesn't, it doesn't happen like that.

It's little by little, it's one button-up shirt at a time.

Yeah.

And then they make you feel good.

I that's a great analogy because they make you feel good about the changes.

You're like, oh yeah, and I want to impress you.

And I want, I I love, I love the smile on your face.

I love how your energy changes when I put this button-up shirt on.

Like, and every time I wear a ball cap and a tack cap and a t-shirt, you know, you kind of look at me like, uh, I have to go out in public with that guy.

Right.

You know, and then you're like, oh, maybe these ball caps and t-shirts don't really look that great on me.

And maybe like, I don't know, maybe I I thought they did, but like maybe I kind of look like a slob in them, or I don't look that great in them.

Okay, well, you know, maybe I don't know.

What what do other people think?

What if what do her threat friends think?

I want her friends to like me.

I want her family to like me.

Like, I, you know, and you start to question your own self and your own choices and your own beliefs and your own values.

And I guess it's a different extreme, but it's the same type of thing, it's the same manipulation.

Right.

It's all that sneaky behavior.

They can isolate you the same way.

It can't, it's not just, oh, hey, I don't want you talking to anybody else except for me.

It's not that blatant.

It will be something like, oh, really, you're gonna go hang out with your friends?

I really was thinking we could just have a romantic night together.

I don't really I don't really like her that much because like, you know, she just is like she talks bad about people and like she's just kind of whiny and just is like negative all the time.

And you know, there's and you're like, you know, she does yeah have a lot of problems in relationships and comes to me a lot about it, and maybe she is kind of negative, you know, it just starts to get that like and she just brings you down, you're such a great person, and she's yeah, yeah, and you know, that ball cap t-shirt analysis now analogy is something that people can understand because I think people have done that a lot in relationships, yeah, yeah.

And so people like I always I in my training, I always am like, who could ever imagine themselves in a relationship like this?

And no one raises their hand.

No one.

Right.

And then I'd give the analogy and I'm like, who's ever done that?

And most everyone raises their hands.

Of course.

And I'm like, you could end up in a relationship like that because everybody has things about themselves they don't like, everybody has vulnerabilities, everybody has some sort of thing in their life that may might have caused them to feel bad about themselves or people have trauma.

And unfortunately, predators, what they do is that they hone in and they learn those things, and that's what they use against people.

And there's some people who are very susceptible to that.

Um, I think that I was one of those people because I went through things as a kid and I went through things as a teenager, and I had thoughts about myself of wanting to, I thought I was a really, really, really great person on the inside and I I really care about people and all of those things, but there was people around me who made me feel like I was a problem.

So I I feel like I constantly felt like I needed to prove myself to people.

And I think a predator, you know, they don't, like I said, they don't go up and slap you on the first date.

They probe, right?

They're they're probers and they go in and they probe and they they see where they can poke holes and they see if it's it works.

And then if it does, they push a little harder and they go, This is the one.

I'm gonna do it with this one.

Yep.

You know, and I think people can be very susceptible to that.

I just think that maybe they haven't found the the predator hasn't found the right probe or the right hole to poke in.

So well, okay, so you have just like the perfect storm to do something as a survivor and then also as a law enforcement professional.

So can we talk a little bit more about the Valkyrie Warrior movement and what that all entails?

Yeah.

Um so it's funny, every day I feel like my brain goes crazy and I exp I have ideas and thoughts and you know, goals and um, but you know, I my biggest passion is to train and change the way we look at survivors and the way we look at traffickers and abusers and predators, um, and changing that shift of who we're blaming, who we are we need to be, because if if we don't change the psychology in our own heads, then we go into a situation with that preconceived notion, right?

We already go in going, is she lying about this?

You know, because maybe she just and it's hard, law enforcement's hard because we the people do lie to us, victims lie to us, uh, witnesses lie to us, suspects lie to us.

Everybody's lying to us.

Not everybody, but everybody is lies to us, right?

So like then we have to like sift through all that.

And it's a hard job, it's hard because I don't know.

I I don't live in their life, I don't walk through it with them day to day, but we've gotta be better and we've gotta be good at human behavior.

So um that's kind of where I do my goals and my training is to help people be better in that human behavior for survivors, especially with trafficking and domestic violence and sex assaults.

Um but also that training, that understanding the psychology of it, and I'm not a psychologist, so just take that with a grain of salt.

But I but I have a lot of experience in both survivor and law enforcement.

Um you know, it I think all the professions, medical, first responders, even fire, um, even sometimes I think even dispatch, because they have to talk to these people on the phone and really try to like sift through what's going on.

Um so first responders, community organizations, that gap between law enforcement and the community organizations, um, you know, changing and really working on the narrative and the way we're looking at these crimes.

So that's a big huge thing for me.

And the reason I like I want this so bad is because I never, ever, ever want someone to treat a victim the way I was treated.

Yeah, I was treated like I was a liar, I was treated like I was a uh a revengeful spouse that wanted to get back at their ex-husband for who knows what after almost 10 years.

I I don't I don't know.

Um I people should not be treated that way.

I mean, I like pretty much like laid it out on a silver platter and gave it to them and because I knew the law and I knew how to do an investigation and I gave it to them on a silver platter, and they pretty much just acted like I was lying, or I don't know.

Do you think that's because of who your ex-husband was, or is do you think that's common?

I think it's I I also just think it's like not putting together all the pieces.

Like I just don't think that that person that I reported it to, I don't think that they put together the connections of the forced product coercion of the domestic violence and the sex assaults and the trafficking.

They didn't, they saw it as separate.

They they wanted to look at it as a crime as a separate thing.

Um, but we like, and and there's tons of trainings out there, especially in domestic violence, that talk about like the the coercion and control.

And even though like coercion and control might not fit yet into a specific crime, it go it plays into the totality of the crime.

You have to get gather that information too to show what's going on in a big picture.

And so what I've kind of noticed or experienced is sometimes cops go, yeah, that's not a crime, I don't really care about that.

You know, like we talk about civil matters all the time and like people controlling bank accounts and stuff, and we're like, Yeah, that's a civil matter.

That's something you're gonna have to figure out in in court, you know, and it's like yes, but that also plays into the coercion and control, you know, and in trafficking, it plays into the force fraud of coercion.

So you have to like you do have to document that stuff, you do have to take that stuff in consideration, and it does play a huge role into the actual crime.

Um so I I don't really know, honestly.

I think that it's it's a it's a couple things.

I think it's it's you know, preconceived thoughts about who people are or what people are doing.

Um this mentality of like, you know, I don't have DNA, so I can't prove it or something.

Um, I think that, you know, the weirdest thing that was said to me was, you know, we have a higher burden of proof in these cases.

Uh, we have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

And I was like, uh no, actually, you're a cop and your burden of proof is probable cause.

So I don't know what you're talking about.

Um and as an investigator, like, I get what they're saying.

You do want to build a good case, but my job is not to argue in court, proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

My job as law enforcement is probable cause.

And probable cause is more likely than not a reasonable person would believe that a crime had occurred.

I mean, it's it's a higher standard than like preponderance of the evidence, which is pretty low, um, like in civil cases, but it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest standard.

Probable cause is not that high, that highest standard.

Um, so that was upsetting to me because I was like, I know what your burden of proof is.

And he he refused to send it to the DA's office to even have them look over it.

I I begged him to.

Oh my god.

I begged him to, and he wouldn't do it.

Um and he argued that the statute of limitations was passed and all these things, which technically trafficking said there is no statute of limitations.

So there's just like a lot of things that went into it that was really bad.

And so, like for me to do trainings and things like that, it's a huge motivating factor, is that I never want people to be treated like that.

Do you do the trainings yourself?

Do you have a team?

How does that work?

I do the trainings myself, but I do have another um officer that she has also um been through some things in her life, but um, so she is very knowledgeable, but she's also very knowledgeable in law enforcement.

Um, and she is going to start helping me do some um like almost like threat assessment type things that we can look into.

Like when we look into the crimes, we can kind of take certain factors and do she's she's like has expertise in threat assessments.

Um, and you know, lethality um assessments are really, really important with domestic violence, with traffic.

I mean, all of it is really important.

So she's gonna be start, she's gonna start helping me do those things.

Um, but I do virtual trainings and I do in-person trainings.

And yeah, and um I also am gonna be doing some consulting.

So I will help like community organizations to bridging the gaps between law enforcement and their organizations because it is frustrating and I get it.

Um, but also like what their policies and programs for survivors and things like that too.

Um, and then I I have spoken at conferences and so um those types of things, and um, and I am really researching and trying to figure out a step further to write a book.

Um, and I really would really love to write a book integrating my story with the practical application for law enforcement.

That I think would be incredible.

How how receptive has everyone been with the education?

You know, it's really interesting because sometimes I think that what I'm talking about is like common knowledge.

I don't know.

I like some of the I probably because I've just done law enforcement for so long, but also I'm just like, yeah, like isn't this just like I I don't think it's sometimes when I talk about it with people, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm sure you already know this, but I'm gonna just talk about it anyway, because this is what I'm talking about.

And people are like, oh my gosh, like I never would have thought about it that way.

Or they're like that your perspective from both sides is like invaluable.

And I'm like, really?

Because I just thought that like this is what this is what everybody knew about this, but I don't think it is.

I mean, I I first of all, like I just don't think we have thought about certain aspects of this crime this way.

Um, because we always thought about it as we were arresting the victims for a long time.

Yeah.

Um and so I like I said, I think we're catching up, but I think that we still have a long way to go.

But I think people have been very receptive and and I feel very flattered and honored that high-ranking people in their organizations, um, directors and owners of companies are like, this is they're like resharing my stuff on LinkedIn.

They are, you know, talking to their people about it, thanking me about talking about these things.

And I'm like, absolutely like it just gives me so much motivation to go forward because I'm like.

People they know, I know, other people know that people need to know this stuff.

And sometimes I sometimes I know that this is just not stuff people want to talk about or hear about.

No, that's not, yeah.

I think professionals do to an extent.

I think they do because I think that we're struggling.

It's happening.

Like trafficking's happening, domestic violence, sex assault, it's happening.

We can choose to ignore it, but it's it's happening and it's causing problems and it's starting to trickle into our kids, and it's, you know, it's trickling into our families, and and it's not the eh, well, that just happens to somebody else.

Well, that happens somewhere else.

You know, it's not that anymore.

And and it's I'm glad we're bringing awareness to it, and I'm glad that we're talking about it more because people need to understand there's real threats, and it's really scary, and it's very dangerous.

And obviously, like if it could happen to me, like I arrest people that do this kinds of thing, and it I fell into the same kind of relationship.

You know, it it happening, it can happen to your sister and to your brother, to your cousin, to, you know, it can happen to your mom.

Like it can happen.

So we can choose to ignore it.

I think people sometimes are like, ugh, you're talking about that again, and it's uncomfortable.

But we've got, I mean, we have to talk about it.

It's time to make everybody uncomfortable.

I actually had a guest on who she uh told the story of how her mother was killed.

She was 15 years old at the time, and she was in the house.

And she said she was a little reluctant to come on the podcast because she was going to be telling this story, and this happened years and years and years ago.

But she was reluctant to come on because she was worried about what her family or friends of her mom would think and how it would hurt them to hear what she had to say.

And it's, I think it needs to be it needs to make people uncomfortable.

We need to make people uncomfortable because if everybody's comfortable with it, no changes can be made.

And it just protects the abusers, right?

That's right.

I mean, really, like if it's funny, you think about it like if if it's it's if it's accepted, or maybe not accepted, but like people just don't care to talk about it in society, then like these people can like run rampant, like nobody's stopping them.

Yeah.

Um but we we have to, I mean, we have to talk about it.

And to be honest, like I want people to be afraid.

I want abusers and traffickers and these people to be afraid of people talking about it because they shouldn't be doing it.

So I'm I'm fine with it.

I will be a voice to speak up about it.

And I mean my job is to help people and protect people and serve the community and put bad guys in jail and stop these crimes from happening.

And like, yeah, so like I hope they're scared because I people don't deserve to be treated that way.

They don't deserve to be exploited, and we should not be protecting people.

Um, you know, I feel the same way sometimes.

Sometimes I'm like, man, I you know, I get nervous that my law enforcement community will look at me and go, like, ugh, like how did you, you're so dumb.

Like, how did you even end up in these relationships?

And you know, all of those things.

But you know what?

If like that's what law enforcement is saying about me, that is the problem.

Right.

Like that is the problem that I'm trying to fix.

Yes.

We are we should not be bad mouthing victims.

We should be helping victims, and we should be doing better at our jobs.

And you know what?

Like, we don't have it's not this like it's so easy to be a cop.

You don't even have to have brains to to do our job.

Like, you have to be very smart to be a cop.

You have to be experts in human behavior.

And we need to just like step up and get there.

And so if people are going to bad mouth me in law enforcement, I mean, that's literally the whole reason why I'm speaking up about it.

Right.

All the more reason to to keep doing it.

So if people wanted to get in touch with you or find out more information, uh, how how can they do that?

Um I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

Um, so you just search my name on there.

Um, I don't know, can they see my name on here?

You can put it in the notes.

It's I'll put it in the notes.

Like Shagny doesn't look like Shagny, it looks like Shagina, and people can't read it and pronounce it correctly.

So if you could just put it in the notes, that would be great.

Yes, I will.

Um and then I do have an Instagram.

It's um Valkyrie Warrior Movement.

And Valkyrie is V-A-L-K-A-R-I-E.

Um, and then yeah, I mean, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn because I I really I love connecting with professionals and I really, I really want to talk about this with other professionals.

I think it's really important.

But um I also I really, really want to know.

I really, really want survivors to know, and survivors that are professionals, survivors that are not professionals, survivors uh everybody out there that like you're not alone.

Um you don't have to feel shame about the things you survived because you survived.

And listen, like it happens to the best of us.

Um and you can get through it and to reach out to people who can help you.

And you know what?

Like, I understand that you're scared to reach out because there's people who don't treat you the right way, and to just find the people that do and keep pushing and keep telling and keep talking about it.

But I just want people to know that they're not alone.

And I I know, Ingrid, that there are people in law enforcement that have gone through these things.

I know of them, I know them.

Um, I know I know people who've gone through domestic violence in law enforcement, sex assault in law enforcement, and also trafficking in law enforcement.

So I also want I wish, I wish somebody when I was a young cop in law enforcement would have said I I had gone through this because maybe I would have felt comfortable, because you know, law enforcement are my people, and maybe I would have felt comfortable enough to go to them and say, like, hey, I know I'm a cop and this is really embarrassing, but I went through that too.

Yeah.

And maybe I could have gotten help.

It is embarrassing as cop.

I think it's a you feel shame.

Yes.

Shame is definitely uh I had a guest who came on and just spoke about shame because I think that's just a very common thread that all of us feel.

Uh so I mean, you you actually that's a really great closing statement, but do you have any lasting words of encouragement or wisdom that you would like to leave as a strong impression on listeners?

Yeah, I just like I said, you're not alone.

Um, and we really, really need to talk about this.

And the people who are hurting other people should be afraid that we're talking about it.

And we just can't keep it quiet anymore.

And we've just got to understand that most victims do actually take accountability for themselves.

Um, and they still don't deserve it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, Mia, thank you so much for coming on.

And I'd love to maybe have you back on another time later this year just as a check-in to see how things are going.

I would love that.

That would be great.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Thank you again, Mia, for joining me today.

And thank you, Warriors, for listening.

I've included the links Mia was referring to as well as her one in three profile in the show notes.

I will be back next week with another episode for you.

Until then, stay strong.

And wherever you are in your journey, always remember you are not alone.

Find more information, register as a guest, or leave a review by going to the website onein3podcast.com.

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One in three is a.5 Pinoy production.

Music written and performed by Tim Crow.