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Discover where your parents, porn and religion never taught you about being a man and having extraordinary sex.

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And we're back.

And anybody who watches this show long enough knows that it's usually a four episode kind of the same guest four episodes.

But yes, Jay Matthias Bennett is back with us.

He hasn't run right screaming yet.

That's so awesome.

I always wait for some guests to like lose it in between.

You know, we shoot these back to back four episodes, and there are a couple of guests who've been like, WHOA about episode three.

They're starting to go, uh, the vulnerability starts piling up, something starts happening, and then they're starting to think, Wow, do I actually want to share that I was on this show?

You know, things get real, but most have courage.

So I'm really curious.

I'm gonna be curious about this because a lot of the these conversations may start out.

We always start out with this kind of high level let's talk about this thing.

They can evolve, they can go off course, they can get led in different directions.

And I always prefer not to know everything that my guests might know or think or whatever on a topic, because then I get surprised, and that surprises always fun leads to all sorts of different things.

Well, agreed, disagree doesn't matter to me.

So this topic, the truth, is a really interesting one for me, And I imagine that this conversation is going to be interesting because we may or may not agree on the definitions or what it is that we go to here.

You know, we'll find out, because that's part of the fun.

So to truth, You've heard me say, I like defining words that can be like so broad, nobody freaking knows what they actually mean.

The truth like from your because that's one of your values.

This is one of these premises like in the book, and everything is right coming back to the truth.

So yep, waiting with dated breath.

Waiting with dated breath.

Okay, well, I think, uh.

What immediately comes to mind is back in the Indiana Jones the opening scene of Indiana Jones.

I can't remember.

Maybe it's the third one where he's like, there's a difference between truth and he writes it on the blackboard and facts.

He writes so historical.

Let's say larger more ads to abstract truth and verifiable archaeological facts that.

Are there out change when science changes.

Oh my god, okay, reinterpretive, rehash or whatever, right right?

And you know, yeah, mmmm, it's interesting because it's such a it's such a broad you know.

It's kind of similarly like almost asking like what is your definition for the word love?

Ye?

Right?

It is so it is so broad.

I mean, what what comes to mind at this immediate moment which is arising?

And it is interesting that truth is my number one value and yet and yet I don't have a dictionary definition or at least definition off the off the cuff of what it is.

However, the thing is is like what a just for me at the moment?

And this might be become a little bit clear, become clearer.

Is it's like to me, truth is that which is in greatest fidelity to reality?

Hm?

Hm right, let's say that again.

Sure, that which is in greatest fidelity yeah, to reality?

Right?

And wow, so we could parse that fidelity, We could parse that reality.

So this becomes like wow.

Right, so so you could have for example, now now I'm maybe getting on a role here, Uh you could have fidelity.

You could you could take a picture with a crappy old school camera and it and you know, a digital camera and it could be a grainy bit resolution right of this digital picture, but it all looks pixelated.

Is that a picture of whatever the light or the scene or whatever.

Yes, does it?

But is it the greatest fidelity to that scene?

No, because it's low resolution.

Okay, right, So then then what is reality?

Well, at least you know, for many people, reality is the the physical world we can touch.

The scientific materialism.

Oh, there's there's no God, there's no consciousness.

There's just kind of molecules as building blocks that kind of happened to arrange themselves in interesting you know ways because of evolution.

There's no organizing divine principle behind that.

No, no, but we all know that that's well we know actually science says that even physical things actually mostly empty space.

Right, So then you so long story, Shirt, I would define in a certain way, reality is not just the physical things that we can see, but but the multi dimensional reality that is actually most that is actually to us as humans, mostly imperceptible.

So then what you're saying is your truth is in is in fidelity in within videlity to the unperceptive like us.

And now now now what the hell like like like right?

So so let's let's let's bring it, bring it home and make it, make it real, make it as simple using you know is is in a certain way.

If you imagine like a line, what is it like a curve of going to a line of like an assymp tote it like geometry.

You could have a curve and it gets closer and closer and closer and closer to the line, but it actually doesn't touch it.

So I think that's for for me and my relationship with truth.

There's no arrival at capital t truth.

How could there be?

The universe is freaking infinite.

Our ability in our capacity is so small.

We we you know, our potential is absolutely absolutely infinite.

And and so the more we're able to lean in to, first of all, having courage to understand and to see what is actually obviously in our faces, that's one thing.

The next level is to lean into those things that we cannot yet understand.

We that we know, we have a sense is true, but we can't quite put our finger on why we think.

And we have this deep knowing that is true.

And so this is why as the next logical thing is is, I would say, is to be curious about the truth and to have a level of curiosity where it's not like a legalistic you know, here's the truth or kind of this thing, but you know, you're like a child like, oh wow, why does that thing happen?

Or why does yeah, looking at phenomena and just really wondering, without any without bringing a bunch of thoughts or reasoning or conceptual models, just to actually experience the thing and its purity and to be in a state of state of awe.

About it my favorite state.

H So I when I assign values, you know, and I work with people and you do this as well, like because in your book, I you know, I was reading that.

I've been delighted to get the sneak peak of the book and read some chapters, and you know, assign your values weirdly enough for somebody who is pretty much all about fairness, and you know the this is how it goes.

I don't have honesty, your truth on my value my first five values at all, and one of the reasons is because mostly we want honesty.

It's not about us, it's about other people.

So the reason we want truth and honesty is because we never want to feel stupid and if other people aren't telling us the truth or aren't being honest, and that goes back to the fact that we lie to ourselves like fucking all day long.

So know that everybody else lies to us as well.

So there is no like truth.

What the fuck is actual truth?

It's a moving target that and if for the spiritual crowd, their truth moves in nanoseconds like oh I love you, Oh yeah, no, that was my truth five minutes ago.

But I'm you know, I hate you now, like holy crap.

And then there's triggers.

We think our truth is our triggers.

So there's a hole like, to me, this is such a such a like quagmire of swampy you know.

Mess.

So there's a great story that just happened that I just wrote about on Facebook.

But my housemate and I just went through regarding the truth, that is fucking hilarious.

Okay, So we bought this really special cheese.

I'm like, he goes, wow, it's pull this out to grill burgers on and I'm like awesome.

So you know he's he's asking me how much to cut, and so you know, I'm looking at the cheese and he's cutting it.

I'm like, oh, that's good.

So then you know, I'm out there doing the burgers.

Ready, he brings the cheese, play do you need more?

I'm like, now we got it.

I remember how many pieces I put on there because I'm arranging it because they're not like slices.

You know, I'm coming to range like tetris right here on the burgers so that they all have the right amount of cheese.

And I go clean up later.

I don't remember putting the cheese away.

So the next day, Kevin whoops up in the refrigerator.

He pulls out this container with cheese in it, and he goes, so should we use this for today?

You know, the special cheese?

And he goes, this is it right?

He whips open the lid.

I look at it, see serrations on it that looks like grating, and I go, no, that's not the cheese, that's the parmesan.

Oh okay, okay.

So he puts it back and then I'm like, he goes, well, where is the cheese?

He goes, do we eat it all on me?

No?

No, no, I remember that you know there was this much left of the cheese and he goes, well, I said I didn't put it away.

You were the one that last saw it.

And he goes, I don't know.

So now I'm going through the fridge and I'm pulling stuff out.

It's not there, Like, how the fuck could it not be there?

So then I go through and I touch every single thing in the fridge and the drug right.

Then I go back to the counter.

Then I start looking around the counter.

Then I'm looking at drawers.

Now we're looking in the dishwash or whatever.

This is two at least two one and a half days.

I've gone through the trash twice because now I need to know where the fuck that cheese went.

Okay, I cannot let this go.

I need to understand what happened, so you know, And he's like, well, you know, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm like, I look, I don't know, but I can solve this mystery.

He's wondering about it.

So we're constantly talking.

He pulls out that first container again.

Ah, he goes, well, when did you grate the parmesan.

I'm like, I never grated parmesan, and he goes, well, nuther did I I open the lid, I taste a piece and it's the freaking cheese.

So what's the truth of the matter was the fact that I made a snap judgment based on the serrated edge of a knife, not a greater uh huh.

So I think of the truth as micro moments, potential micro moments of perspection, perspective, perspective.

Okay.

For instance, it was true that that looked grated, and because I made that assessment, we don't even have parmesan.

I mean, that's the other part we in French.

I was so sure.

I was so confident I literally said, no, that's parmesan because of that me seeing the pattern of the grating, which was just a grated knife, not greater uh huh.

Two days of crazy town whatever, Okay.

So I believed in my truth in that moment that that was parmesan, that nobody bought and nobody graded.

I was holding firm to that enough to look at every drawer, the garbage can, like everywhere else.

That was so hard.

I'm hanging on to my perspective.

So I look at the truth as a potential, ever evolving situation based on the perspectives of the parties involved.

So you know, the truth is I used to teach keegels.

We had this conversation earlier, and that's what I taught, and everybody did them.

And then I discovered this other thing that was creating a problem.

So then I said, well, my truth was do this.

Now my truth is don't do that, do this.

So the truth is a moving target.

That's like the short of that is that there might never be a complete truth.

Yep.

So I don't even know how to fucking design define truth.

I don't even know what to do with that.

So I am curious about the truth.

Not you had said, you know, curious, be curious about the truth.

You meant it as in be curious.

I was kind of like, I'm curious about the truth because I don't know what.

It is, right, I mean, I think it points points to this, Yeah, I mean.

One also metaphor that you may it's a very common metaphor is the three blind men and the elephant.

They've never seen an elephant before.

There's a blind man who holds the trunk of the elephant and he says, oh, this is like a snake.

And you know, the one blind man holds the is touching the the leg and he's like, oh, this is like a tree.

And then the other blind person is holding the tail and I forgot what this It was like, yeah, I don't know if he said broom, but it was another animal that was know something like the tail.

Now what is the what the overall truth you know that which is in greatest fidelity to to reality is Yes, all those things were partial views of of the larger thing that's that's going on.

And so I think at least for me, like having truth be the top value and also having a level of curiosity about it means in that certain way that that I will always be evolving, or at least my understanding of what either reality is or what is possible will continue to grow, will continue to evolve, as distinct from many people on just the planet right now, who, for whatever reason and is is uh uh, whether it's just for survival or you know, it's just because there's a lot trauma or there's a lot of things going on, don't have that as a value and as as a priority.

I'll and I actually have a view about why I think maybe truth is not on your list, which I yeah, I'll get to that because I think because it actually is on the kind of a similar thing.

So there is this one quote that I found.

When I saw it, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so so true.

So it's in Latin, and I'll translated mundo vult decipi ergo decipteur.

The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived.

Mm.

So this was first documented in this book called The Ship of Fools, a satirical Allegory in seventeen or fourteen seventy four by Sebastian bront in medieval German.

And so when I read that, I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I mean, how much in the world.

And this actually kind of taps into our previous conversation of let's say those that are in power and control and as you know, we as like the leaders.

If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

Is that those who were let's just say, doing mischief or evil or pulling the strings behind the scenes, that are quote unquote in control, they they bank on people choosing comfort, choosing all of these kind of material things over truth.

And so when that happens, then well it's basically easy to control people because because you can feed them whatever whatever story that that is kind of of exactly exactly.

And then they're they're totally on board, you know, they're like, hey, you know, like oh, protecting like protecting women's rights, and and wow, women are a victim, not like, for example, realize, oh well, shit, if if I if I say and I advocate that women are actually victims that actually like takes away self agency like ooh hmm, maybe that's not the actual, you know, optimum way to approach this or yeah, and so I'll link that back to what I maybe see about you and truth not being in your top five values for you, I I would tell me if this is how accurate this is, and based on our conversations, is that for you, truth occurs all day, every day in technicolor absolutely?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So for you, it's it's like so freaking obvious.

It's literally in your face every waking moment of the world, and and you perceiving all these things that maybe a lot of people don't perceive in a lay of detail and texture like those POPSICLESA.

He's torturing me right now.

You got uh yeah, level of detail that the other people like have they they they are just it's they totally miss it.

Okay.

Yeah.

So so in a in a way, my my read of you truth not being in your top five of those values is is that it's just so obvious to you that this is what's happening, and you can immediately go right to have a absolutely bang on accurate assessment.

Okay, here is my read on my super high fidelity perception of what right to the fidelity truth?

Yeah, so what did I say?

Truth is like the fidelity with reality.

So you you are in super super high fidelity perception of reality, and so no wonder that something that's totally obvious to you that you then say to person, then three years later they might go back to you and say, oh my gosh, Tanya, hey, you know you said this thing three years ago, and then guess what happened.

But and then you're like duh, Like, yeah, I knew that three years ago.

That's why it was obvious to me.

Then that's why I told you, and it's still obvious to me.

Now this is truth.

This is true.

Yes, that is true.

Okay.

So from a ground perspective, the reason that we one of the things that we do with truth in a non productive way is holding to this is true?

So I'm right.

And in relationships, here's the way to blow the fuck out of your relationship for sure, and that is you know, I know the truth about this situation.

So like with the cheese, I knew the truth about the cheese in that fucking moment without being curious and taking the next level like oh, let me taste the cheese, because then I would have known for sure.

No, no, no instant judgment.

I'm right, you know, look at all that now.

That doesn't happen to me often.

I am not typically a person who goes I'm right about that.

I don't know.

I don't know what was going on that I decided to make that assumption.

Usually I'm curious.

Usually I'm like, hmm, could that be the cheese.

It doesn't look like the cheese.

Maybe it didn't smell like the cheese.

It's got great martes.

Let me test it.

I'm gonna try the cheese.

That pretty well is gonna tell me in an instant.

But somehow I was off my curiosity moment.

Don't know why.

It doesn't really matter, But when it comes to sex, when it comes to relationships, when it comes to any of these things.

We typically operate from the idea that we know what's true.

I heard you say this.

Now you and I've had the conversation where my biggest trigger is when somebody who I think knows me takes something I say and assigns it an intent I'm not even pucked, like possibly couldn't even be me.

That is painful to me, like, h so painful, like instead of wow, Tanya, hmm, I was really curious that you said that.

Tell me more about that.

Did you mean this, this is what I heard or whatever?

And I'm like, oh shit, now you know.

So that curiosity we can hang on to the truth, our truth, our perception of the truth, a desire to be right about it, which clearly I was completely out of my normal zone with the fucking cheese, which is why I wrote a story about it on Facebook and why I'm saying about it now because this People are trustworthy, tell they not.

People do what they do till they don't, And right there, I did not do any of the things that I usually do.

So you're having a conversation with your partner and they say something that is quote unquote their truth.

This is why when I work with couples.

I never let people say everything they want to say, no, nogether, in separate together and separate because fuck, some shit should not ever come out of your mouth.

It's just Shitting't out of your mouth, say everything unfiltered to somebody if you're triggered.

So curiosity, what's your feeling about that you said this?

Oh, let me tell you this is what I heard, because look what they said and what are two different things?

Ye were true?

Right?

Yeah?

And the clarity of communication is is yeah, it's it's there's there's a number of different steps in that communication process where things could go awry.

Well, we do not even right right exactly things go awry.

We go if we never go back to that flip to that last you know, open that container and taste that damn cheese, We're gonna hang on to the other the nex The first step after that, what do you mean to like, go back to the truth is?

Wow, what if we all treated each other with the grace of curiosity?

Hmm?

I wonder what you meant by that?

Hmm.

I wonder you know.

I'm curious, can you elaborate more.

I'm curious why you said that.

I'm curious about that instead of like I need to be right about what happened.

I fucking needed to be right about that damn fucking cheese, even though I say hours hours hours doing shit like by the garbage and looking at cupboards and like every single thing except open that damn container and taste it.

Thank you, Universe, bring me more.

So how do we let go?

How do we hold on to the desire?

Because truth for us equals assuredly a surety.

Is that a word?

It is?

It is a word?

Yes, yeah, thank you?

Because if I made it up, everybody understood it.

Anyway, Truth for us feels like a surety.

It feels like something we can hang our hat on.

It feels like something tangible and something that stable.

It feels stable, stability, right, that's m m yeah right.

And so that stability piece we desire because that way we feel like we know what's going on.

We rely on that we can.

That's what people get so shook when all of a sudden science blows up.

There they're truth in something.

I like to assert that I know something for myself and then go read every single thing I can to blow the fuck up out of what I believe.

Mm hmmm ye my favorite things to change my mind except except for the cheese.

Yep, except for the yep.

I get it, I get it.

I think, yeah, boy, there's there's so many things that kind of come up.

Hmmm.

So is is around that curiosity I would reframe, slightly reframe.

I agree with what you said, and I would slightly add to it, is that it's our ego that wants that solidity or that surety, that sense of oh, this is not going to change.

Because if this thing changes, then that might mean fill in the blank.

That might mean I'm uncomfortable.

That might mean I need to leave this relationship.

That might mean I need to get vulnerable.

That might mean I need to take a risk and do the thing that I've been saying that I I am going to do.

Wethink everything my life stood for before.

Before the cheese.

Right.

So one of the things, and this could also be a just a general good let's say action point is instead of this idea of truth is something fixed and solid going back also to touch in and weave back into what you're saying, it's ever ever fluid.

And so so this idea of let's say curiosity, it's like have it's like kind of to me, it's like light and playful and spontaneous sense of, oh, this is curious.

So instead of, for example, like if you're on a date, to be really curious about who is this person on the other side of the table, or if you're an intimate situation, be like curious about, okay, well, how could I touch this person in a way that they would appreciate?

Or even the next level is how how could I drop into the space of of and feel this energy between us so that so that whatever next action effortly arises.

Yeah, so it's like this constant sensing into the moment about okay, well what is arising here, what wants to unfold, what wants to emerge.

So it's like a listening of of of openness and anticipation of of what wants to but wants to happen that that could be good for you, could be good for this other person, could be good for the world.

Yeah, so then that would mean your value of truth is really listening into what's being woven into that moment.

So yeah, yeah, that it taps into.

For example, from my from a book, part of the definition of a regenerative leader is is someone who listens and co creates wholeness into existence for themselves others in the world.

Yeah, so okay, so what I'm gonna take.

What I'm going to drop in here then on the how too is don't solidify truth.

Love it, love it, love it, love it.

I think that should be like you've got your new quote.

This should be that my new quote.

I'm gonna write it down.

Don't solidify the truth relying on the truth, nor like expecting other people's truth to be like carved in stone.

That is never ever going to change.

I'll tell you when it comes to women, and if you nail the truth of what they said yesterday means they're going to feel the same way today.

You're already lost.

That is probably the most varied truth on the planet.

What turns a woman on now, thirty seconds, half an hour from now not gonna be the same thing.

So that other thing is the truth.

Somebody can love you today and not love you tomorrow.

That there's so many things that we believe.

When it comes out of somebody's mouth, it's the truth.

And you are going to nail that, lay it, You're going to come back.

I can't tell you how many relationship, things, communication.

I've heard with the whole like, well you told me that, Like that's it.

I said that, and that is forever.

Now that said, like how many people have said till death to hoest part.

You're all still fucking alive.

So clearly you weren't telling the truth or you were in that moment.

So don't to fight the truth and hang everything you have and go keep going back to make that instead, as Matthiah says, be curious about the ever evolving moment of truth.

Make it so.

I guess the easy way we all know this is stop fucking making assumptions.

Would you agree with that?

So how do we do that?

How do we do that?

It's easy, show up, curious, stop hanging onto what was said done.

Just don't be me and the fucking cheese just just there, Just remember the cheese story.

Don't be me and the cheese.

Go taste that thing, whatever that thing is.

We'll be back.

We'll leave you with that