[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, and happy almost new year slash new year, depending on when you're listening to this.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are going into 2026 full of gratitude for all of you for listening along and reading along and generally just being along for the ride.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are especially grateful for our patrons, and today we want to thank our newest patron Lauren.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the team.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now, please enjoy this week's episode of Potten Prejudice, covering chapters 13 and 14 of Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, sorry, there's a little more to do before we get to the doing of the podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, everybody.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's me, audio producer Graham here at my desk.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to jump in really quick to tell everybody that I have an announcement.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be performing in New York with some very dear friends of mine.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be performing at Fish Fest, which is a physical theater festival, but we're going to be performing a new work of theater that we created while we are in school together.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's called The Marble in My Mouth.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's all about grief and what happens when we don't allow ourselves to feel it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is a beautiful, silly, heart-wrenching, gorgeous piece of work that I hope that you can all come out and see.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be at the Stella Adler Theatre, January 9th and 10th at 7pm and 830pm.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to post the ticket link in this episode's description.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much and without any further ado, here's this week's episode of Pod and Prejudice.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the most romantic things that's happened to me in recent years is that I was sitting on the couch today and I eaten a bowl of spicy ramen noodles for lunch because it's fucking snowing out and I burped really that and my quen oh that's hot and I was like oh I'm gonna give me a break would you prefer held it in?

[SPEAKER_00]: He looked at me and he went no you're at your sexiest when you're healthy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why is that adorable?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the cutest thing anybody's ever said.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're at your sexiest when your healthy I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no back to Jaina.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lawson's very romantic novel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this novel's so romantic.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time I'm really wish that we had a video podcast because the look you gave me when you said that is like Becca you started this podcast with me six years ago and suddenly I'm in this fucking book and no one's kissing nobody has kissed yet and it's been actually that's alive.

[SPEAKER_01]: They definitely were kissing in the woods [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, hmm, so I guess whatever, but it's not in a romantic way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's in a spicy knot, you way.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's improper!

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, improved, it's improved, it's improved!

[SPEAKER_00]: this is Becca.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is Molly.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are here to talk about Jane Austin.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are here specifically to talk about Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, if you're new here, I Becca have read many Jane Austin novels through my lifetime.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Molly, and reading all of her novels for the first time through this podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear Molly read through Pride and Prejudice since in sensibility, Emma or Persuasion for the first time you can listen to seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4 of this podcast respectively, but that is not what we're doing here today.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, today we are talking about Mansfield Park, Volume 1, chapters 13 and 14.

[SPEAKER_00]: And boy, the theater kids are here.

[SPEAKER_01]: The theater!

[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually so excited about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my, yeah, I mean, I'm glad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is a very iconic part of Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say what we would call a lightning rod because some people are like, why is Jane Austen writing about them doing a fucking play?

[SPEAKER_01]: On the one hand, yes, but actually I want to give us a pat on the back for already having covered Austin land at this point because I now have a visual and also kind of like a more modern lens through which to view this, yes, with because that this is I think those storyline that they based that part of Austin land on absolutely absolutely so before we get into these chapters and lovers vows.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will give a quick recap of what happened last time, which was very little, basically Mary is still kind of nudging Edmund about being clergymen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Big T has returned to Mansfield Park, and Fanny is, you know, hot for nature, hot for landscaping, but mostly nature, and we go to Fanny's first ball and everyone's dancing with each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Engaged our flirting with each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a good summary of where we're at?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's get into these chapters of Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so there was a friend who was in town that was at the ball and we were like, whoom, is that friend?

[SPEAKER_01]: It is the honorable John Yates who is the younger son of a Lord with not much else going on to commend him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is he high ranking with that honorable?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's not more of a sarcastic honorable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, got it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Lord Yates is not passing his title on to John his son who is a not a second son necessarily, but certainly not a first son and he does not have a lot of stuff going on in his life.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he and big tear just partying it up in way myth together.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: He befriended Tom and Weimith, and he was invited to come to Mansfield anytime he'd liked.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he ended up coming a little sooner than was expected because he was in the area at a friend's house to perform a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the party broke up early when a relation of the family died.

[SPEAKER_01]: How dare they?

[SPEAKER_01]: Literally how dare they is all this chapter is about.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, uh, I can't believe she died at that exact time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I just feel like it's really important that something we learn about big T and his buddies and these chapters is that they are theater people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it's so funny because I was picturing him being like going to fight and doing like.

[SPEAKER_01]: bedding money on cards and stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm like, was he just a theater bro?

[SPEAKER_01]: Porkino Lestos.

[SPEAKER_01]: Porkino Lestos.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think it is true to say that Big T is doing every form of debotory, but I think he's just constantly in the market for what we'd call it good time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as we know, theater is such a good time.

[SPEAKER_01]: The theater's a great time, but also I think it's important to think about the fact that like at this time there was probably two kinds of theater if I'm I'm I'm reaching back to my theater training and I want to acknowledge that I may fuck this up a little.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I fuck everything up when we're talking about this dream content.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like there is theater for royals, which is respectable and there's the queen and a box or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like appropriate to go see and then there's like traveling troops or [SPEAKER_01]: in this case home theater, which is less proper and seems to be a cause for like alarm.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that this is like the theater that Tom is going to is not necessarily like the theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and well, it's more participating in the theater is like kind of a bunch of different ways, and I will say like I did like brush up on my like slightly on my Jane Austen and the theater history.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great, because I wanted to make sure I was getting things right and my understanding is that it was seen as like ghost.

[SPEAKER_00]: and potentially spicy for a woman to be doing this, but it was like a fun and trendy thing people were kind of doing, and Jane Austen did do theater with her family quite a bit in her home.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it also depends on what the play is.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that comes into play here a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is certainly a very large portion of this, and I also think it depends on the household, and I think we are led to believe that this is a more conservative household.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Edmund has something to say about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, oh my god, Molly just rolled her eyes so hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think we can say yes, theater is a little bit of a scandal activity, but it's not like [SPEAKER_00]: a pearl-clutching life ruining activity and it is something that Jane Austen enjoyed in her own life.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it is interesting that it's playing the specific role here, but I certainly think we need to talk about the play it issue before we get to far into the propriety.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I was not able to Google this because when I Googled it, the first thing that came up is it's known for its the role plays in Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I would love to hear what lovers vows is about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will give that to you in bits and pieces without claiming to be an expert on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But first, let's get to where they talk about doing it in the book before I go into what the story is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in any event, all John Yates can talk about is how upset he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get to perform and he's got his head full of the theater, but luckily, all of these young people are interested in the theater and they want to hear him talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he had a small part in Lever's Bows, but the main parts had been taken by Lord Raven Shaw and the Duke by the time he got to Ecclesford, which is where he was.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lord Raven Shaw had apparently offered to give him the part, and John was like, no, no, I simply couldn't, but he did feel bad for Lord Raven Shaw that he thought he was up for the part.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, he wasn't going to be very good, but are you also like super triggered by like theater school here?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I'm like he's talking about the casting and like I'm like, who was talking about me behind my back when I got the role they wanted?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean, I'm just more like like a man theater kids are so petty.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're so petty.

[SPEAKER_00]: So obsessed with themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: Love theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am a theater kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: Love theater kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's a lot of former theater kids and current theater kids listening to this podcast, but we all know who I'm talking about and it's also it's it's usually this guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think every profession has its jerks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen any type of profession that doesn't attract a particular type of jerk.

[SPEAKER_00]: The theater jerk is a very specific jerk and that jerk is John Yates.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he goes through each actor and he's talking about all of their skills and he thinks it would have been a really good play if it had gone on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everyone feels very sorry for him that the grand mother died.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to do the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, yeah, she really died at a most inconvenient time for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's not even his grandmother.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wishes the news could have waited a couple of days.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just like it was so far away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why couldn't it have waited three days to reach us?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Tom says that he bets Lord Ravenshaw was relieved to not have to try to act the Baron, which is such a dickish thing to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's his grandmother died.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is like to me one of the funniest pieces of this book is like Yates and big tea going back and forth and talking about theater together Yeah, when I was working on my funniest quotes like half of number from this exchange Tom suggests that they make some theater at Mansfield [SPEAKER_01]: and Yates can be their manager, and everyone is obsessed with this idea, particularly Henry Crawford, who has an entire paragraph about how good he is at acting.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I feel like I could act to the telephone book right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could do any part that was put in front of me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll play Shylock, I'll play this part, I'll play that part.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, you know, since we're just entertaining ourselves, any room in service with theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom goes, well, we just need a curtain, maybe a few yards of green bays, which is a course typically green woolen material resembling felt used, especially for covering pool, snooker, and billiard tables.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says that'll do, and then Yates says, oh, quite enough, with only just a sidewing or two run up, doors and flat, and three or four scenes to be let down, nothing more would be necessary for such a plan as this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when he says scenes to be let down, he's talking about backdrops, I believe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so he's like, yeah, no, we just need a couple of, uh, just a couple sets.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're just seeing changes like wings, we need wings.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get the shine to layer to fall.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just really light touch.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you've been watching only murders, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I am not caught up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is a mispoiler.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I am picturing him being a young Oliver Putnam.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah, I don't only cost $4 million.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a scarf hanging off of him and he's like justoring very broadly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah at the stage.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like I hate this guy, but I love this guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am living.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's hilarious.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mariah says why don't we focus on the performance rather than the theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: every low budget production ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Edmund, I believe sarcastically goes in, okay, thank you back, back an audit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Goes in and is like, oh, well, if we're gonna do it, we have to do it all out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we must have a full set with a pit and an orchestra.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't out do echoes for what is [SPEAKER_00]: Edmund.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about a stick up the bud.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Julia is like, come on, Edmund.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you love the theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: You've traveled the farthest out of all of us to go see the theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, yeah, I've gotten to see real theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's gone to theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's gone to theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to do theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, he just like, he's like, I've seen Broadway.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing community theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares what he thinks though, and that is, that is like the story of these chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares what Edmund thinks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Except for Fanny, as always, as always.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: They go on with their plans and they decide Tom wants a comedy, Henry and the girls want a tragedy, but either way a play is happening, and that will be come back later to write them in the butt.

[SPEAKER_01]: Edmund is very uncomfortable with this, but his mom is fine with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that may Tom comes into the drawing room from the Billiard room where he had been hanging out with the pro theater people and he announces that the billiards table is shit, but if they move it to the side, it would be the awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: theater room, like they can turn that room into the theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund is like, are you serious about acting?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you really going to do this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And Tom is like, why are you surprised?

[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking about it all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund's like, well, in general, private theatricals are looked down on.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in our particular case, our father is away, so it would be disrespectful to him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Mariah shouldn't be participating in something like this in her condition, meaning engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because Aiden case you forgot, she's engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's like varying.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I understand the Mariah a bit, like she shouldn't be play acting love with another man.

[SPEAKER_01]: For example, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But why doesn't matter that their father is away?

[SPEAKER_00]: Two reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, they would need his permission to do something like this and they're not going to get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because he's away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And two, he's away and in grave peril, right, and they should be worried.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so basically it's kind of like my husband's dad's a firefighter, this is an a perfect, like analogy, but if he's off fighting a really serious fire and in grave danger or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then it'd be like weird if the he and his brothers were running around town doing like debauchers shit And like not caring that their dad was in danger, you know, so like it's seen as like oh, you're not being appropriately like summer while you're we're waiting for your dad to come home Which is why big teeth like We're supposed to have no fun while dad's gone right [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom says, listen, we're not doing an eight show, an eight week run.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're not putting on three shows a weekend till Dad comes home.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're just entertaining ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a big deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's not going to be an audience.

[SPEAKER_01]: No one will see.

[SPEAKER_01]: And with regard to their father being absent, he's like, [SPEAKER_01]: our mother is so anxious about father's return.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this would lighten the mood.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they turned to look at Lady Bertram, who is snoozing in the corner looking very peaceful.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's definitely got Mr.

wobbles, pug wobbles, but ask why you're on her lap.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom maintains that they would be doing no harm by doing this theater and Edmund thinks that their father would disapprove.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom thinks not because when they were kids, they used to perform plays all the time on holiday.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund's like, yeah, we were boys and our dad wanted us to be well spoken, but he would never approve of his daughters doing something like this.

[SPEAKER_00]: particularly when one of them is what?

[SPEAKER_01]: In game.

[SPEAKER_00]: In games.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom and Snarks maintain your own concerns, Edmund, and I'll take care of the rest of the family.

[SPEAKER_01]: Spicy, very spicy, because he is the one who's going to be in charge of the rest of the family.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you can really see here who's actually like, got the gumption to run in a state and like, understand what he's supposed to be doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, he's like, he's like, but I also am kind of like, [SPEAKER_00]: Do I like Tom more than I like Edmund?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to like Edmund in these chapters because even if he is right, he is so uptight, it's annoying.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's annoying like, I get like, there are rules, but when you think about why the rules are in place, it's kind of, I mean, again, I focus on the fact that Jane Austen, like herself, would perform in place, like, at this point in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the later point in time, but this point in time, it's kind of like, like, we know where she's coming from.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And who she's siding with?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think she's just kind of like making it clear that this guy is like regimented and like very old school.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And is not willing to transgress past even an inch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Edmund says, you at least shouldn't attempt to make a theater, like, don't do construction on the house.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just perform your scenes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Tom says he has a greater interest in the house being maintained to the Edmund does, or as great an interest.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not more.

[SPEAKER_01]: If not more, because he is literally the one inheriting it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I've only suggested moving a book case or opening a door.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not knocking down walls.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you think father would disapprove of that, you're basically thinking would disapprove of like moving the piano from one side of the room to the other.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund is like, but it's going to cost money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Tom is like 20 pounds, maybe, to hang a curtain and pay a carpenter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is the carpenter to build a stage?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what's going on?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why do they need a carpenter?

[SPEAKER_00]: either that or to hang the curtain.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I guess the I guess the carpenter needs to hang the curtain and then he says that the carpenter or all of the carpenter you can be done by Christopher Jackson.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is this a person we're supposed to know it's just a guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just a guy his dad likes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, just a carpenter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he says that if the work is taken by Christopher Jackson, they're dad would approve.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they guess it's just their partner.

[SPEAKER_01]: But don't worry, Fanny is there, and he's still there.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's been here the whole time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund, like, plops down in his all-in-a-half, and Fanny goes, maybe they won't find a place that satisfies everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmunds, like, now they will.

[SPEAKER_01]: I need to try to dissuade my sisters.

[SPEAKER_01]: And fan, he's like, I'm sure Mrs.

Norris will agree with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmunds, like, she doesn't have influence with the others.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to start a whole fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to stop this in its tracks.

[SPEAKER_01]: He mentions he doesn't want to be by the ears, which in this era means causing people to fight or argue.

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to talk to his sisters that night, or maybe the night stay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't think there's anything wrong with their plan.

[SPEAKER_01]: Julia admits that Mariah's situation might be dicey, but she sees no reason why she shouldn't participate.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Mariah thinks that her engagement actually raises her above restraint, so she shouldn't have to ask permission for this sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's misindependent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's Kelly Clarkson.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's like, I'm an engaged woman.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost a wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, basically, my father can't tell me what to do anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Henry then comes in and says, Mary Crawford wants to be in the play, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Mariah looks at Edmund, Edmund is then quote, a bludge to acknowledge that the charm of acting might well carry fascination to the mind of genius.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thoughts, I was like, you just spent six pages talking about how this must not happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as the girl you like wants to be a part of it, you're going to just say oh yeah that's it yeah you're going to fold you're going to be like oh that's okay like maybe like some people it's okay and [SPEAKER_01]: Shut up!

[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_01]: Mrs.

Norris also is very easily talked down from her like high horse about her high horse yeah and she is thrilled by the fact that she decides she needs to move into Mansfield for the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But not possibly put on an amateur scene study without Mrs.

Norris living at Mansfield Park to make sure it happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the end of that chapter.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, Fanny was right, they can't find a play that will satisfy all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: The carpenter has gotten to work before they find a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mrs.

Norris has gotten them green-based before they find a play, and the Mayards have hung the green-based before they find a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: They need a tragedy that's also a comedy that has enough roles for everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: It needs to have not too many characters, but every character must be a star, and it needs [SPEAKER_01]: Fanny feels conflicted because everything of higher consequence, quote unquote, is against the play, but she has never seen a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so she would like to.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, which is sweet because I want her to get some more culture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she does deserve to observe a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe not this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this one might not be to her tastes, which will find out later.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: But so far they haven't found a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom is fed up with their arguing and he says, listen, nothing is going to suit all of us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just pick a comedy and it can be anything I'll do any part.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be a lead.

[SPEAKER_01]: He suggests the air at law, saying that there are both comic and tragic roles.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when nobody responds to this, he suggests lovers.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a very big play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cause Yates was supposed to do it at Ecclesford.

[SPEAKER_01]: He can finally play in the barren, like he wanted to.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it has tragic roles, comedic roles.

[SPEAKER_01]: The comedic role is a small part, but Tom will take it because he's so flexible.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's giving up.

[SPEAKER_00]: aspiring stand of comic right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, as long as it's funny, like, I could take a small role and make it big.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yates has been practicing the barren in his room since the play at Ecclesburg, which I thought was really funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he does mention that he would also be willing to take Frederick, and Henry says he'll take whichever one Yates doesn't want, and some [SPEAKER_01]: Mariah and Julia both want to be Agatha, who is the the lead tragic role.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and Julia says that Agatha and Amelia would be good for her and Mariah, but there isn't a role from as Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a good time to stop and give you like a few details about the plan?

[SPEAKER_01]: That would be great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because I just like am naming names.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the lover's bow is I believe that adaptation of a German play, and I'm not going to go like two deeply into the details of it, but it is a spicy play.

[SPEAKER_00]: for the time period because it is about a woman who bears an illegitimate child.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on the side of that, there is a set of lovers who sort of find their way to each other, and it is a, I don't want to give away too much about it, but there is essentially the role of a sweet little on genu.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that Amelia.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the sort of about her slightly forbidden love story with a lowly preacher, which is the bear and no, which is Frederick.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, so Frederick is Agatha's son.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so, but Amelia goes to visit Frederick in prison at some point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at some point, but she's not having a love affair with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, her love affair with a, with a different character got it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the reason that this place spicy a little bit is because it's a lot of up at a women and it portrays a woman bearing a child out of wedlock and the flirtation [SPEAKER_00]: is quite outright.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, right now, that's by Julia needs to play Amelia and not Mariah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, so this is the fun part.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're fighting over Agatha.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're fighting over Agatha, [SPEAKER_01]: But it would be really bad for Mariah to play Amelia, but they never considered Mariah playing Amelia.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not really no.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Amelia's the orange-new, like, Bloody Love Girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they both want to be Agatha in part because there's many scenes as I understand it between Frederick and Agatha.

[SPEAKER_00]: That makes characters.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Funny that they want to play his mom, but mostly because they want to spend time with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: yeah it would be about spending time with him maybe touching him and as we learned of many many books ago Jane Austen touching his big deal yes and you have to touch on the theater stage especially in Sherlock this so like in terms of propriety this is like the modern day of equivalent of trying doing a little amateur in the house production of like spring awakening or hair like I see [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's a popular show but it's transgressive and it's a weird choice for like home theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, particularly spicy one.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Henry, this is right after they say there's not a really a role for Miss Crawford, Henry says it's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: She really only wants to act if she'll be useful.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Tom is like, no, she definitely should be Amelia and one of my sisters can play Agatha.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mariah and Julia are both like not really volunteering because they want the group to press the role on them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they want it to be like, oh, you should definitely play that part.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Henry turns to Julia and asks her to please not take the part because she would make him laugh.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't be able to take her seriously in a solemn role because of all the laughs they've had together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he means this to come out in a nice way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, well, it's hard to take it in a nice way, but I feel like you can be like, oh my god, I love you so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't pretend to hate you on stage or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically that's what he's saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she sees him glance at Mariah in this.

[SPEAKER_01]: moment and she sees Mariah smiling and she understands in this moment at long last that she is not the preferred and that he doesn't want her to play the role because he wants to play it across from her sister, which is completely batch it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: and to say in front of a room, girl, girl, Henry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Henry is girl in this case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's the nutty boy, but like I was saying, girl at him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, girl, I am girl, girl, both a girl, girl, all around.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: come, then backs up, Henry, and says, while Julia thinks she prefers tragedy, he wouldn't trust her in a tragic role.

[SPEAKER_01]: She should play the codagers' wife instead.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Yates is like, dude, what the fuck?

[SPEAKER_01]: That is the most trivial, poultry, insignificant part.

[SPEAKER_01]: The nearest carbon place, not a tolerable speech in the whole.

[SPEAKER_01]: At Ecclesford, they literally had the governess do it because they couldn't see themselves like assigning it to anyone else.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, rude.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would be crying if I was really at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I would be so embarrassed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, Tom doesn't deserve the title of manager if he can't see his sister as better than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought Yates was the manager, but I guess when he became the barren Tom took on the role of manager.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess because it's his house as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, but he had originally been like, oh, to make it up to you that you didn't get to do this play at Echoesford.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can be the manager of our play, and then I was trying to go back and find where they switched parts, but I couldn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not important, but I, and someone will tell me, I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says that he hasn't seen anyone act yet, so he has to use guesswork.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't know if his sisters are good actor and besides, they can't have two agathas, and they need a college manager's wife, which is fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he says, if she really doesn't want to funny roll, she can take the cottager speeches as the cottagers life and Tom will play the cottager but take the wife's speeches.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically he'll play the wife and she'll play the cottager.

[SPEAKER_01]: Henry says, no, no, no, she should play Amelia.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hardest part in the piece.

[SPEAKER_01]: He really talks it up, which kind of makes her feel a little better and softens her up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Tom is like, no, no, no, Ms.

Crawford has to play Amelia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Julia is too tall and robust.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's not dainty enough to play Amelia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Does Tom still think that he and Mary Crawford are thing like does he not know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just love that Tom is like 10 degrees from reality here.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just like not paying attention to the dynamics going on between his sisters Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has no concept of like what Mary Crawford would pet.

[SPEAKER_00]: He literally is just thinking about this like, no, in a play like obviously Julius Tutal and Bucks M to be [SPEAKER_00]: like the cute little ongeny that has to go to Mary Crawford like that's stupid yeah like he's just being up to [SPEAKER_00]: which is fantastic.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is very funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: Henry doesn't listen to this and because now nobody hears what Tom thinks.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he begs Julia to take the role saying she may prefer tragedy but comedy chooses her.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, you'll visit me in prison with a basket of provisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you want to visit me in prison with a basket of provisions?

[SPEAKER_01]: And she wonders if he's just trying to smooth over the previous affront.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she checks Mariah's face.

[SPEAKER_01]: thinking like, oh, if she looks nervous, then she'll think this is real, but she looks perfectly happy and so she knows that she's happy at Julia's expense and that she is definitely the one preferred.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she claps back and Julia says, you do not seem afraid of not keeping your countenance when I come in with the basket of provisions, though one might have supposed, but it is only as agatha that I was to be so overpowering.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Henry has nothing to [SPEAKER_01]: Nope, can't defend himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Tom, once again, reasserts that Mary should play Amelia, which is like literally not even what they're talking about anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nope, not at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Julia's on a roll.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, don't worry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want the part.

[SPEAKER_01]: Amelia is an odious little hurt, a natural, impudent girl, comedy, and it's a worst form.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then she storms out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very theater kid.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very theater kid.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to give me the good part.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want any part.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and she leaves, which I was proud of her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fanny feels compassion for her because she is the only one who knows what this is really about, except for obviously Mariah and Henry probably have an inkling.

[SPEAKER_01]: But do they care?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, they sure don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mariah is muttering to Henry that she would have given up her role to truly accept that quote, well, I shall probably do very ill.

She would do it worse.

[SPEAKER_01]: After a bit, Tom and John Yates go to the theater room, and Mariah goes to offer Amelia to Miss Crawford, leaving Fanny alone.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is at this point that Fanny picks up the play to read it because she's very curious what they're all talking about, and she is just shocked at how improper it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It says, quote, she could hardly suppose her cousins could be aware of what they were engaging in, and she's very much looking forward to Edmund setting them straight, which will not happen because nobody cares what Edmund thinks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that brings us to the end of chapter 14.

[SPEAKER_00]: Knit shirt us and the patron study questions listeners, if you would like to submit the study questions for us to read on the air and answer, you can join our Patreon at the $15 tier become a patron and submit your questions through the Google Doc that Molly posed before a record, so we will read them.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will answer them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Judith and Diana have both asked questions about lovers' vows on modern day equivalency, basically that and they're correct on this through modern lens.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for us to understand how scandalizing this play is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And why most people are okay with it, but if any and men think it's crazy that people would act in this and they ask what we think a modern day equivalent would be I think I kind of answered this question, but I'm curious to hear your takes having now gotten like a slight bit of context from me about what this is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you said it would be like like spring awakening or hair.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you're living room.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, spring awakening makes a lot of sense to me, not necessarily even the musical.

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't a modern day equivalent, but spring is awakening the actual play the German play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like the German plays brings awakening.

[SPEAKER_01]: From whatever year that's from a long long time ago, but it was very scandalizing when it came out and so I can see how spring and awakening would be a good modern day equivalent.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also thinking like rent, like something that has to do with like sex and drugs and and disease, something that's not necessarily like [SPEAKER_01]: It's not not commercial, but it might not be like the thing that everybody who wants to go see wicked on Broadway is going to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it made a splash when it premiered, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was well received, but scandalous a little.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess like right now like Prince Faggot is happening and I don't know what you're talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a play about I had to ask someone you're not allowed to have your phone in it because I think probably new to these similar to like Liberation and then I'm talking about things in our own Broadway right now or off Broadway in the case of Prince Faggot, but it is about the Prince of England growing up as a young gay man [SPEAKER_00]: love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all I know about it, but like, people are loving it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Eskennel.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's scandalous to have a play about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's kind of what we're getting at.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I think like more, like we talked about how like theater is something that was happening in the home and people, you know, thought it wasn't necessarily the most proper activity, but it was certainly happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is taking it a bit to the extreme.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like doing the vagina monologue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, General.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like a good, a good comp.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's weird to do like a home production of the vagina monologues.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're like a little bit more modern in your sensibility, then like short, but it'd be a weird choice for an amateur production.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's usually done on V-Day to raise money for women's health.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like organizations fighting for women's rights internationally.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like even when I was in high school and doing the vagina monologues, [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like talking about it with the non-feeter people.

[SPEAKER_00]: People were weird at out.

[SPEAKER_00]: People were like, you're doing the what?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, my father saw me in the vagina monologues in college and he was shaking in pale.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, I've turned to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is, I think that's like a kind of what this is a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got that edge of like, oh, man, that's like spicy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which like, maybe if you're in our artist, you don't think of it as that spicy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in this time period, this was quite spicy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also will point this out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk a lot about how Jane Austen persists through time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is like so 21st century for a bunch of theater kids to get together and do a reading and do a reading which helps them flirt more openly with their crushes than they would otherwise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: like theater kids are all about the like massages and the lack of boundaries and the like flirting with each other while rehearsals are going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stage kiss but it's going to be a real kiss.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god yeah, remember being in a high school and stage kissing and certain parties were very nervous [SPEAKER_00]: excited and freaked out by the idea of kissing somebody on stage like these are like these are still things people teenagers usually go through today but like we're really seeing that like pathway towards [SPEAKER_00]: flirtation well i mean they're hoping that they're on stage romance will turn into an off-stage romance which who among us it's literally habit everybody ever every theater kid knows this and like if you are a theater kid you're like i always keep my feeling separate you're lying [SPEAKER_00]: You're a liar.

[SPEAKER_01]: You might as a theater adult.

[SPEAKER_01]: You should be able to as a theater adult.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once you do it professionally You should be separating emotions, but we were all teenagers in high school, and it's a weird hormonal time.

[SPEAKER_01]: We also we remember Zinesa.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: High school musical.

[SPEAKER_01]: The blueprint for a showman.

[SPEAKER_01]: The blueprint.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was the number one fan of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I know what's going on here.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Caitlyn asks, what do you make of everyone's opinions and roles concerning lovers vows?

[SPEAKER_00]: What does it tell us about each character?

[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously we've got the showman's playing mother and son.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we've seen it before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've seen it before.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know how they feel about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Julia obviously wanted to be that girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she is not that girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom here for a good time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tom is here to just make some good art.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's not here to make good art.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's here to have a good time whereas John Yates here to make art.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wants really an actor.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to be an actor.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mary Crawford who I do think genuinely is just like, that's how it's fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like Mary, the analogy here and like I'm going again, going to trigger you is the really beautiful cool girl in theater who is like, oh yeah, that could be fun and like throws away on audition and gets the lead.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the lead.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't present those girls they are allowed to be good at what they do They are but married and even show up to the audition and is getting hand in one of the leaves And she's like oh yeah, that sounds like great.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's so dainty and pretty.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's so pretty.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so she's there to [SPEAKER_01]: be Mary Crawford and also to make Edmund watch the play because he was like, again, anti the play and she had the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's really frustrating.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, Edmund hates the theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't hate the theater, but he hates this theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: And is only watching it or only allowing it to happen because Mary Crawford's in [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get into her in a moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's that's everyone's opinions and roles.

[SPEAKER_01]: What it's all about each character is more of the same I'd say.

[SPEAKER_01]: It shows how much of a stick Edmund has up his butt.

[SPEAKER_01]: Huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: It shows how kind of unconcerned Tom is with societal rules in decorum.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would add that he's like, it shows Tom as sort of inescapably in constant pursuit of pleasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a pleasurable thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's home for like two minutes and he's bored and he does not care if it's proper or not He's going to pursue the thing that will be fun and he's going to throw his whole ass into it And so he's like he's like a professional fun hammer and pleasure seeker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Here for a good time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: And Mariah and Julia, it has turned to the tides.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, yeah, it is up to the stakes on the Henry Crawford of it all, and it has honestly given Julia an answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm thrilled for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she deserves so much better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen, Julie is not a perfect character, but poor one off of herself respect in this moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm proud of her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, yeah, she's been annoying up till now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's had her flaws and classist.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's a classist, but I don't hate her as much as I currently am thinking, Mariah, what the fuck?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So girl, girl, what the fuck?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I, yeah, I guess Julia is flawed, but everybody in this book is super flawed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I am currently team Julia.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say if we're going to be [SPEAKER_00]: fair to Mr.

Prissy Edmund.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we're going to give him his do, this moment also shows true vanity in the his peers, the moment they get to start thinking of themselves as like on a stage and acting, they all turn into like these like, [SPEAKER_00]: the worst for show ponies yeah looking to be like showing off themselves on stage Edmund is not that as a character he is clear-eyed enough to understand that his father would not like this and his this is still his father's home and he wants to be the voice actually acknowledging that [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we're being our most fair to Edmund, he is clear right about the implications of what's happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he is not wrong that this is a project of his brothers and sisters vanity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a good point that they are not only looking to be show ponies.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know that we literally talked about this already, but [SPEAKER_01]: They want to use the guys of a play, just speaking about Mariah and Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_01]: They want to use the guys of a play to play out their little fantasies.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and no one's no one's done that since.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, final question from the patrons.

[SPEAKER_00]: Avie asks, what do you make of Fanny's reaction at the end of chapter 14?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think will happen next?

[SPEAKER_01]: So, Fanny has been kind of pro play until she picks up the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she was excited to see the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now she's read the play and she's shocked because obviously Edmund would be shocked and is shocked so she is shocked too.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do I think will happen next?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Fanny is using those morals that she got from Edmund to perceive this play as being improper.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she's going to try to stop the play, but there's definitely they're setting us up for some tension between her and the rest of the family and her hoping that Edmund is going to set them straight when he's not going to set them straight because Mary Crawford is involved.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he's going to let it happen and she's going to probably be upset and I'm wondering how much she's aware of Edmund and Mary Crawford's love affair at this point because I think that this would be similar to how Julia has just gotten confirmation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Edmund allowing this play to go forth is going to be some confirmation for how he feels about Mary Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: and this kind of, like, runs into a question, is Fanny's scandal escandal correct in this situation?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I agree with Tom a little bit that they're not doing it for an audience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So why does it matter?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Fanny and we'll get farther into this, didn't take issue until she read the play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I guess I am, it wasn't really fair of me to say that she only feels this way because of Edmund's feeling this way because she actually saw that he felt this way and didn't agree and tell she read it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's more like she had a balancing act where she was taking seriously Edmund's concerns and knew of them, but secretly was excited because she's never, you know, participated in theater before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But she didn't necessarily know that his concerns were based on the material.

[SPEAKER_00]: his concerns were broader than material.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: The material.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So her having concerns about the material, like, I'm not saying she's incorrect, but if we're equating it to like, yeah, spring awakening, that's a great play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with an important message.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not, I don't know the full story of lover's vows, but it's a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her concerns should more be with Henry Crawford and [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, to be fair to Fanny, and we don't have to answer this yet, the, it's a real question where her concern lies most.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where it lies right now, but I think her concern will be about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's the only one who's noticed it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ha-ha tells all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ha-ha tells all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that concludes our page and study questions, listeners.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to ask questions on the air, you can become a patron at the $15 tier, submit your questions through Molly's Google Docs.

[SPEAKER_00]: You will ask, we will answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that brings me to Becca's study questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we've covered a couple of these already, but I'll kind of like run through them quickly, so we just go through a sort of a lightning round on them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Quick, let's talk about how Jane Austen uses theater to move the story forward, and what the different reactions to theater as an art form tell us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's kind of, I'm hoping it's going to be a play within a play, but it definitely is metathiatric on Jane Austen's part to have them arguing over parts when they're really at least with Marie and Julia, they're arguing over parts when they want to be arguing over a man.

[SPEAKER_01]: It also pits the brothers against each other, so now there's attention between Tom and Edmund, which is also in a greater sense, like it's been alluded to several times that Tom is the one inheriting and Edmund is not, so Edmund needs to sit down and mind his own business and let Tom run the household.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that is one way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we had another person who's the mix who wasn't here before with John Yates and like he's the big theater guy from the outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It gives everyone cover to deal with their emotions that are really improper in like a slightly less improper way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so things begin to grow reluctantly in the lasagna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We see a power struggle in the chapter between Edmund and Big T.

What do you take away from their dispute over the theater?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I think I kind of just talked about that actually with it being kind of microcosm [SPEAKER_01]: their power struggle over the the house and who is the leader of the estate and who is actually more suited to lead the estate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like Tom keeps being like take a seat, little bro, and Edmund is actually the one who would do a good job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the leader of the house leading the home in the correct direction or the wrong direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of moral and moral.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back in checking in on the what the fuck more I attract or what do you make of her choosing to star in this play with Henry Crawford?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is a what the fuck moment because she is blatantly ignoring the fact that she's engaged.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's actually saying because I'm engaged, I should be able to make my own decisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I can talk to slash touch any man I want and it won't be a problem because I'm engaged and it's an apply so who could it's in a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's fake so who could have a problem with this while everyone is saying like there's a problem with this, but nobody's like saying it to her but like everyone's kind of saying it behind her back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Julia knows it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Edmond knows it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fanny knows it like they're all like she's engaged and she's like that's not a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that Fanny is the only one who's clocking how much she's playing with fire.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it is really apparent from the interaction between Julia, Mariah and Henry, how they intend to use this play.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it'd be one thing if she was just an independent woman trying to have fun and pursuing pleasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what is actually here is that it's another chance for her to be closer to a man who she is not engaged to.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'm really hoping that Julia blows her spot like I would love for Julia to like alert the presses.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on her to call some drama.

[SPEAKER_00]: You you want scoring.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do speaking of let's go to Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: His role as someone who enjoys acting and his intentions picking Mariah over Julia here.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, obviously, he's got the same aims as Mariah, and as Julia did before she was does he?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, well, I think that his goal is to get to spend more time with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that he is trying to like get her.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he thinks it's fun to flirt with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the question is, first of all, is Rushworth coming to see this play?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is my first question?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's a question moving forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a question moving forward about that because if he is, then it's almost like Henry's trying to stir the pop for no reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he also, maybe he was trying to hurt Julia's feelings.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen him as being malicious up until this point, but like it was kind of mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think mostly he wants to flirt with Mariah, unless he had truly thinks that she would be better in the role and they're reading into it too much and he's that clueless, but I don't think that's the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that if Rushworth does come to see the play, the consequences to his actions could be bad, because I think that everyone's going to see that they have the most scenes together, and that's something they chose.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, [SPEAKER_01]: If it's truly a mother, daughter, mother, son, role, then it depends what the scenes are like for them to like, you know, if it's like not really, um, but they're going to have to rehearse by themselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stay sure well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that anyone can kind of draw their conclusions about what's happening there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Funny as to what [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many to choose, but we're so many good ones in this chapter, which is finally a comedy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just read too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Give it to us.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, when they're talking about it being an anxious period for Lady Bertram, when the father is away, [SPEAKER_01]: He says it's an anxious period for her, and then the quote is, as he said this, each looked towards their mother.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lady Bertram sunk back in one corner of the sofa.

[SPEAKER_01]: The picture of health, wealth, ease, and tranquility was just falling into a gentle dose while Fannie was getting through the few difficulties in her work for her.

[SPEAKER_01]: The picture of anxiety, right there, and then my other one is when they're talking about what play to do There's like a bunch of like rapid fire lines that everyone's saying that aren't attributed to anyone person But I got this one that I thought was funny If I must give my opinion, I have always thought at the most in sipping play in the English language I do not wish to make objections.

[SPEAKER_01]: I shall be happy to be of any use, but I think we could not choose worse [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, they're also vain, um, questions moving forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, who is watching this play?

[SPEAKER_01]: Mr.

Rushworth, Lady Birdstrom, all sorts of people who could potentially be a problem, will Julia participate in the play at all?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Fanny, try to stop the play.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Will we do the play at all?

[SPEAKER_00]: who wins the chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Julia, stand up here yourself, girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, make sure that he's not disrespecting you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You deserve it, you deserve better.

[SPEAKER_01]: You deserve some things, but you deserve better than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, listeners, that concludes this episode of Pot and Pregidas.

[SPEAKER_00]: For next time, we're gonna read chapters 15 and 16 to see how things begin to transpire in our lovers' vows.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's our lovers' lasagna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lovers' lasagna, Molly, anything else to add?

[SPEAKER_00]: Until next time then stay proper.

[SPEAKER_01]: And go put on a play.

[SPEAKER_01]: Be scandalous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be scandalous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't stay proper.

[SPEAKER_01]: Potten Prejudice is edited by Molly Birdick and audio produced by Graham Cook.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our show art is designed by Torrance Brown.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our show is transcribed by speech docs, podcast transcription.

[SPEAKER_01]: For transcripts, and to learn more about our team, check out our website at pottenprejudice.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: To keep up with the show, you can follow us on social media at Potten Prejudice.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you love what you hear, check out our Patreon to see how you can support us by some merch at pod and prejudice.dashery.com or just drop us a rating and a review wherever you get your podcasts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stay proper!