1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,120 Welcome to Fork Around and Find Out, the podcast about building, running, and maintaining 2 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:19,320 software and systems. 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,520 Welcome to Fork Around and Find Out, the podcast all about technology and forking around. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,600 Today we are going to find out with Tim Banks. 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Welcome to the show, Tim. 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,600 Hey, how's it going, y'all? 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,640 Good to see you again. 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,680 We had you on the Chippet Show last year and it was a fantastic episode and we wanted 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,680 to have you back. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,680 We wanted to have you. 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,680 No, I wanted to come back. 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:39,680 Yeah. 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,680 Absolutely. 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,680 I love y'all. 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,680 Great. 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:43,680 Oh my God. 17 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,680 I don't know how do we really like top the Chippet episode? 18 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,600 Oh, oh, there are plenty of ways to top it and I think we're starting off spicy right 19 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:57,120 now because we had a whole pre-show conversation here and Tim says they hate renfares and I'm 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,120 curious to. 21 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:59,640 Okay. 22 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:00,640 So, and here's why. 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,640 Here's why. 24 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:02,640 All right. 25 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:10,560 Now, renfares are for like 14th century is 15th century is Europe, right? 26 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,800 I'm half black and half Mexican. 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,800 What do I have to do with 14th century? 28 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,800 The way you looked into the camera and said it. 29 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:17,800 I can't read. 30 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:18,800 You know what I'm saying? 31 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:32,440 Like, like a bunch of unwashed people who can't do math, right, largely, largely, largely 32 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,080 illiterate, you know, the food is awful. 33 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,280 That turkey leg was amazing. 34 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,280 Speak for yourself. 35 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,280 Okay. 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Do you think, do you really think they had smoked turkey legs in Renaissance era Europe? 37 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,480 They didn't. 38 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,480 Like that. 39 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,760 Number two, they have smoked turkey legs at every festival. 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:51,760 Do they? 41 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,760 Yes. 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Yeah. 43 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,160 Every festival you go to has smoked turkey legs. 44 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:57,160 Yeah. 45 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,160 I mean, Disneyland just kind of kicked it off. 46 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,160 Yeah. 47 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,160 It's everywhere. 48 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,160 Yeah. 49 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:03,160 Everywhere. 50 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Literally everywhere. 51 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,160 Has smoked turkey legs. 52 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,560 But do I get to look cute and get it like turkey leg? 53 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,560 Yeah. 54 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:10,560 But, but okay. 55 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,360 So let's go to that looking cute because like it's relative. 56 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,440 There are some people that look cuter in prayer than other people that don't and it's largely 57 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:17,480 relative. 58 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:22,800 But like it's just cosplay is all it is, but, but I'm not going to cosplay people who 59 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,040 are trying to like genocide my people. 60 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,040 You know what I'm saying? 61 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:32,120 Like, like, I'm, that's everything that's fun, like I'm brown, like that's everything. 62 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,280 Well it's not everything that's fun, but I'm certainly not, I'm certainly not glamorizing 63 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,720 like, you know what's great about these people, nothing. 64 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,560 I go to Rundrair as a fairy. 65 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,560 They didn't, they didn't like, I mean, I think they were equal opportunity. 66 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,160 The fairies go after everybody, you know, you know, that's, that would be like me going 67 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,920 to, I don't know, some festival or something that doesn't exist is me going like dressed 68 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:56,920 up as Jesus somewhere. 69 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:58,720 Like, you know, like, you should do that. 70 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,720 That would be fine. 71 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,280 Dress up as a Palestinian immigrant in this economy. 72 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,520 I feel like you could put a spin on that. 73 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,520 That would be so much fun. 74 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,800 I mean, like, like my shirt is, is, see, that's what I'm saying. 75 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Like, like, I feel like you could make that the most ironic Tim version of just about anything. 76 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:34,280 Yeah, but, but I, you know, I, there are some folks I would cosplay, but, but neither fairies 77 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,280 nor Rundsons. 78 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,280 Who would you cosplay? 79 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,280 Oh, I would. 80 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,280 Now I've never cosplayed before, but I would cosplay. 81 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,280 Shut up. 82 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,280 Will you get dressed up for something? 83 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,280 I mean, is it Halloween? 84 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,280 A cosplay? 85 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,280 Like, is that? 86 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,280 No. 87 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,280 Like, what do you designate cosplay? 88 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:49,280 Cause I feel like you get dressed up for something all the time. 89 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:50,280 A specific character. 90 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Well, I mean, I dress, I dress, but it's not cosplay. 91 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,280 Cosplay is like as a person, as a specific character kind of thing. 92 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:57,280 Right? 93 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,280 No sports jerseys. 94 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,280 No, no name, number. 95 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,280 I mean, I mean, I have Mexico team sports jerseys like that, but like, but like not really 96 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:04,280 cosplay. 97 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:05,280 Right? 98 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,280 If I was going to cosplay anybody, it would be Saw Gerrera. 99 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,280 Who's that? 100 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:18,280 Saw Gerrera is probably, in my opinion, the most badass character in the entire Star Wars 101 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:19,280 universe. 102 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:20,280 Right? 103 00:04:20,280 --> 00:04:24,280 He was played by Forrest Whitaker in Rogue One. 104 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:25,280 Right? 105 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:26,280 But he also. 106 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:27,280 The best Star Wars movie, Rogue One. 107 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:32,280 He's also in Andor, and he's, but he debuted in Clone Wars. 108 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:34,280 Never seen Star Wars. 109 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:36,280 Any of them? 110 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,280 Any of them? 111 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:40,280 Autumn, I'm going to kick you off the show right now. 112 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,280 You seem to go stop and watch. 113 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:46,280 How, how are you going to, you're like, oh, I'm into fairies and blah, blah, blah, blah, 114 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:48,280 blah, but I've never seen Star Wars. 115 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,280 Fairies and magic are different than the species. 116 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:52,280 What are you, the forces? 117 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,280 How is it? 118 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,280 Yeah. 119 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:55,280 How is it different? 120 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:57,280 But they're just different kinds of magic. 121 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,280 How do you know? 122 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:02,280 They don't, they both don't exist. 123 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:03,280 Exactly. 124 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,280 Star Wars is like the ren fair of magic. 125 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,280 Like Star Wars is just right up. 126 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,280 Star Wars is literally space ren fair. 127 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:11,280 Yeah. 128 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:12,280 100%. 129 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:14,280 Princesses, weird characters, swords. 130 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:15,280 Yeah. 131 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:16,280 You know, squash bucklers. 132 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:17,280 Yeah. 133 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:18,280 Predators. 134 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:19,280 It's sci-fi. 135 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:23,280 It's like, it's like space, but like. 136 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:24,280 You've never seen it. 137 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:26,280 So I don't know how you're going to describe it. 138 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:30,280 No, I'm saying the way you're describing it sounds like all this stuff, but like with 139 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:31,280 space. 140 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:32,280 Star Wars is a space western, is all it is. 141 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:37,280 It's, it's no different than, essentially it's a blueprint for like, well, it's a blue 142 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,280 same blueprint for cowboy, bebop, try gun, et cetera, et cetera. 143 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:41,280 Space western. 144 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,280 Firefly. 145 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:43,280 Yeah. 146 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:44,280 I guess. 147 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:45,280 You like firefly? 148 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:46,280 Oh man. 149 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:47,280 Okay. 150 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:52,280 Every time we have Tim on the show, I feel like we need like full video episodes. 151 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:54,280 Why don't you release this to YouTube? 152 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:55,280 This should be on YouTube. 153 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:56,280 We can post this on YouTube. 154 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:57,280 Yeah. 155 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:01,280 Because like for one, they can't see their eyeliner and the faces and then they'd be like 156 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,280 staring into the camera and like, it's the best. 157 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:08,280 Which by the way, if this is your first episode of foreground and find out listeners, this 158 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:10,280 one is going to be a lot of fun. 159 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:11,280 So. 160 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,280 Tim. 161 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:13,280 So let's go all your backgrounds. 162 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:17,280 Well, first of all, I really wanted to do this as an after dark. 163 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:21,280 Like I wanted this to be like, you know, like a live stream after art and I will still talk 164 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:23,280 you into doing one of these one day. 165 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:24,280 Me about me. 166 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:31,280 Um, I am, uh, I am a for a couple of more days. 167 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:35,280 I am a four straight brown belt in, uh, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. 168 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,280 This is coming out after Saturday. 169 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:38,280 So you're, 170 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:39,280 Oh yeah. 171 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:40,280 Yeah. 172 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:42,280 So, so I am, I am a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. 173 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,280 How do you work so hard? 174 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:50,280 Five time Pan American champion, three time American national champion, three time, uh, 175 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:54,280 silver medalist and world championships, uh, international masters bronze medal and a 176 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:58,280 bunch of like gold medals and various opens throughout Texas and other states just like 177 00:06:58,280 --> 00:06:59,280 that. 178 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:03,280 Um, uh, and then I also do like some computer stuff to pay the bills. 179 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:07,280 Um, you know, I've got to pay for the. 180 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,280 Uh, and I'm, and I'm pretty good at that. 181 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:12,280 I've been doing that for like almost 30 years. 182 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:18,280 Um, so, but yeah, like, and then, uh, and then, you know, aside from that, I, uh, I am 183 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:25,280 a, you know, just an absolute raging leftist, uh, and, uh, and, and support causes, uh, 184 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,280 that, that one I've used like that. 185 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:33,280 Um, so, but yeah, no, I've, uh, I've got a, um, a very long and unremarkable background 186 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:34,280 in several careers. 187 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:35,280 I was in the Marine Corps. 188 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,280 I was a musician. 189 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,280 I was a professional chef. 190 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,280 Uh, I was a general contractor. 191 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,280 Um, so like I worked. 192 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,280 Is there anything you can't do to like dance? 193 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,280 I'm a terrible dancer. 194 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,280 I can't, I feel like you could, I can't, I, I would need to see this in real life. 195 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:56,280 I feel like, so, so what I can do is I can swing dance and Hazel's going to love it 196 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,280 that I said that because I have not done it in years. 197 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,280 I can swing dance because it's like some series of steps and stuff like that. 198 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,280 But like normally I just like, I can play. 199 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,280 I have such great independence when I play drum set and stuff like that. 200 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,280 I can, you know, marshal foot or right foot like blah, blah, blah, blah. 201 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,280 So it's not a matter of that. 202 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,280 It's just for some reason I cannot, I can't, I can't do it. 203 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Everything else in my body, but I can't dance. 204 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,280 I feel like you can probably dance better than most people. 205 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,280 I mean, I probably can. 206 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,280 If Tim and I had a dance off, I guarantee you'll still win. 207 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,280 Oh yeah. 208 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,280 Because I can, because just because I can find that. 209 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,280 Is that fair? 210 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,280 I mean, I can, I can still find a beat. 211 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,280 Don't get me wrong, but like. 212 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,280 There's, there's a reason that I listened to hardcore music and go to mosh pits 213 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,280 because it's just like that's the dance of like. 214 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,280 Every time you say that, I think about that picture of your arm 215 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,280 and it grosses me out all over again. 216 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,280 That's the reason I don't go to mosh pits anymore. 217 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,280 Ramatize me. 218 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:54,280 Thanks. 219 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,280 But it's also kind of really funny because it's like, oh man, 220 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:58,280 I can't resume this thing again. 221 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,280 Um, but it's also really kind of funny because I have this thing where it's 222 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,280 like, uh, I am a good enough developer. 223 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,280 Um, like I write automation, right? 224 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,280 But you don't want me like writing like code. 225 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,280 You know what I'm saying? 226 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,280 Sure. 227 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,280 Like I can, I can think my way through code. 228 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,280 I can do that kind of stuff like that. 229 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:30,280 But I, I don't have the, I don't have the right kind of patients. 230 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,280 Right. 231 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,280 To be a developer. 232 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,280 It's just does not appeal to me. 233 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,280 It's not something I do, but so it's like, but now. 234 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,280 Tell us about your career. 235 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,280 Like what have you done? 236 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:41,280 Like tech wise. 237 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:49,280 So like I started off, you know, way long ago pre Y2K working on like 238 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,280 Windows systems and, and like AS 400 domain friends. 239 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,280 And for people that are too young to know what Y2K is, it was the year 2000 240 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,280 when we thought all the computers are going to break. 241 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,280 Well, because I think people see Tim's like big personality and spicy takes 242 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,280 and they don't realize how much of a background that you have to back up 243 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,280 all of those spicy takes, right? 244 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,280 And not just like some people on the internet do the like grift of just 245 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:13,280 being spicy. 246 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,280 No, no, no, Tim has the actual like pedigree to like back up all of those 247 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,280 spicy thoughts. 248 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,280 So like, tell us about that before we get into this place. 249 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,280 So I was, I was, I was a Windows sysadmin and AS 400 operator. 250 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,280 Then I moved into Sun systems systems administration. 251 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:35,280 And then, you know, especially around E10Ks and Oracle databases. 252 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:40,280 And then move from there into basically pretty much every commercial 253 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:47,280 Unix out there as HPUX and IRIX digital digital Unix, which is my 254 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,280 favorite, working on big deck alpha systems. 255 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,280 So a lot, a lot of big Unix systems, a lot of mainframes and stuff like that 256 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,280 as an operator and dealing stuff like working for ISPs and working for 257 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,280 manufacturers supporting things like that. 258 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,280 So a lot of enterprise stuff and a lot of early internet stuff where, you know, 259 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,280 it's like, I'm dealing with arrays of T one lines and dial up modems, both on 260 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,280 the server side. 261 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,280 Like, you know, I used to, like I was the kind of person that had all the, 262 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:17,280 all their modem settings, like, you know, AT ampersand seven, you know, 263 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:18,280 carrot, blah, blah, blah. 264 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,280 Like I had those things. 265 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,280 It's like, oh, is this Rockwell modem? 266 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,280 I'll use this, this use dial up string. 267 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,280 Oh, is this, you know, 56 K and I had opinions. 268 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:26,280 I had opinions. 269 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:32,280 I matter of fact, I had a US robotics courier 56 K external modem up until 270 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,280 like 2015. 271 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Have you ever not had opinions? 272 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:42,280 I mean, not that I can recall, but, but, but, but like I had a pain like even 273 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,280 then it was like, well, you know, you want to use this one over this or this one 274 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,280 over this or these ones looking these circumstances and blah, blah, blah, 275 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,280 because you had to, right? 276 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,280 Cause it was like connecting to the internet wasn't just a frivolous thing. 277 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,280 It wasn't just an automatic thing. 278 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,280 Like it took some doing, you know, and if you wanted to have any kind of 279 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,280 capability, you had to not just have like a know how of how to type in the 280 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,280 keyboard. 281 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,280 You had to know physically how they worked and how to optimize them. 282 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,280 Like, like, you know, how long could the copper be? 283 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:12,280 How long? 284 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,280 Cause this, how many bends could you have? 285 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,280 It's like, you know, like, you know, what was your pot size? 286 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,280 You know, you had to know a lot of things about that. 287 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,280 You know, how to polish, polish the end of fiber off the cables to stick them in 288 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,280 your fiber channel drives and stuff. 289 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:29,280 You know, so like you had to know a lot about systems beyond just the 290 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,280 software. 291 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,280 You had to know about architecture. 292 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:33,280 Right. 293 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:40,280 Um, and then you get into kind of like a more hypervisor VM kind of base thing 294 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,280 with the advent of VMware. 295 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,280 Uh, and that, you know, you still had to know the systems, but they had to know 296 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:46,280 them less. 297 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,280 Um, and then, you know, started at working in the advent of the cloud. 298 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,280 So like I first started messing with the cloud with Azure when it was still just 299 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,280 nothing but like a windows systems orchestrator. 300 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,280 Um, and then with AWS, I think I started working with Azure. 301 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,280 AWS, I think I started working with like right in 2012. 302 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Um, and then we're from there also into like large, because I worked on Oracle 303 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,280 systems in the past and I went into working on like large databases. 304 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:17,280 My SQL a lot, uh, because I was working for IS for, um, ISPs and, uh, and web 305 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,280 hosts, um, you know, learn, uh, you know, all the whole lamp stack pretty much 306 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,280 inside and out. 307 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Uh, then I went into working into like MongoDB and other no SQL, then into 308 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,280 working as a senior SRE. 309 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:34,280 My last like frontline engineering job was a senior SRE at elastic, um, 310 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,280 working on elastic cloud and, you know, writing like pipelines and like logging 311 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,280 and observability, stuff like that. 312 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,280 Um, and I went to terms. 313 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:44,280 Yeah. 314 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:45,280 Yeah. 315 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Um, and then I went into like more of the, um, uh, the more consultant space 316 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,280 working as a tamper AWS and then mission cloud, um, was a principal solutions 317 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:55,280 architect equinex. 318 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,280 Uh, I was the principal cloud economist at the duck bill group. 319 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,280 Um, and then, uh, lead, uh, lead, uh, developer advocate Adele. 320 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,280 And then now I'm here at Klan as a customer solutions architect. 321 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:12,280 So I've worked on companies from plucky little startups to, you know, 322 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,280 fortune 50 companies. 323 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,280 I guess Amazon's small, small fortune five or whatever. 324 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:22,280 Um, I've worked in everything from K through 12, higher ed, uh, you know, 325 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,280 government contractor, defense contractor. 326 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,280 So I've, you know, I've seen a lot and I've done a lot in the various environments. 327 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,280 What's been consistent across all of those? 328 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,280 Like what's the stupidity? 329 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,280 Absolutely stupidity of human kind. 330 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,280 Like we will, uh, we, we will absolutely make the same mistakes over and over 331 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,280 and over again at all levels. 332 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,280 Right. 333 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,280 Every startup founder thinks they are, they have everything figured out. 334 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,280 Every startup founder thinks that they're like, Oh, well, we're going to be doing 335 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,280 it this way and they all make the same mistakes every last one. 336 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,280 I feel like the last year, like you can tell why old people just be over life. 337 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Like, you know what I mean? 338 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,280 Like it's just watching the same mistakes over and over. 339 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,280 But you see companies, uh, you know, they go from the little startups and they try 340 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,280 to grow and they run into these same problems with scaling, right? 341 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:15,280 The same growth, you know, the growing pains and they just, there is a problem 342 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:21,280 with taking people who are good engineers and putting them in the, you know, 343 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,280 leading companies, right? 344 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,280 Because they don't know how to lead. 345 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,280 It's like when you take a good engineer and you make them a manager, 346 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,280 those are two different skills. 347 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,280 But it's like, it is a completely different skill, but also it's like, 348 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,280 they don't know how to lead, right? 349 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,280 But they also don't want to be told how to lead, right? 350 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:44,280 And, and there's this big clash of like, Hey, you're not doing this very well. 351 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,280 I'm like, Oh, well, I'm growing and learning, but they don't accept that from anybody else. 352 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,280 But do you think that's because engineering typically has like a certain personality type? 353 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Because I wonder that too when it just comes to working with other engineers. 354 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,280 It's not, it's not engineering that has a certain personality type. 355 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,280 It is entrepreneurship that has a certain personality type, right? 356 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,280 The person who's gonna like, I'm going to start off and do this thing on my own, blah, blah, blah, 357 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,280 because I think it's a better way to do it, right? 358 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Which is fine. 359 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:12,280 And that's great. 360 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,280 But the problem that you have is that... 361 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:15,280 Oh, we lost you. 362 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,280 Oh, am I not there? 363 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,280 I can hear you. 364 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:19,280 Can you hear me? 365 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,280 Tim, come back. 366 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,280 Oh man. 367 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,280 I was just trying to reconnect. 368 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,280 I can hear y'all. 369 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:25,280 It's so wild. 370 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,280 Give me a second. 371 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,280 So I can see the time ticking. 372 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,280 So I know it's still recording. 373 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,280 It knows we're talking about it. 374 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,280 Let me know when you can hear me. 375 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,280 All right. 376 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Am I there? 377 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,280 You weren't here for at least a minute. 378 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,280 Oh, wow. 379 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,280 What was the last thing you got? 380 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,280 Entrepreneurship was the problem. 381 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,280 Okay. 382 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,280 So the problem is it's entrepreneurship, the certain personality type that goes into entrepreneurship 383 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,280 because they feel like, hey, I can do this thing different better. 384 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,280 I have a better idea, right? 385 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,280 Which is great. 386 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,280 And that's all well and fine. 387 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,280 But the problem that you have is that you are going over road that a lot of people have 388 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:03,280 already gone over. 389 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:10,280 Instead of learning from the tire tracks, they're like, oh no, we can do this. 390 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,280 We're going to go over the same thing. 391 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,280 I want to go over here. 392 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,280 And those tire tracks go usually off the side of the road. 393 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,280 The other thing that they have is there's this notion of you got to learn from mistakes 394 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,280 and they will go to people who have been successful and like, well, how did you do it? 395 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,280 Right. 396 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,280 Right. 397 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,280 But what they don't do is they don't go to people who weren't successful. 398 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,280 And how do they do it? 399 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,280 Because those answers are almost always going to be the same. 400 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,280 But is that really just entrepreneurship? 401 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,280 Because engineers do that all the time. 402 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,280 But again, it's a different thing because they're engineers that don't do that. 403 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,280 They're engineers that are like, I'm just going to be sitting here doing my thing. 404 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,280 People are constantly reinventing the wheel and being like, it's different. 405 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,280 But the people reinventing the wheel are the ones that make their own companies because 406 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280 as soon as I started a project, I'm going to make this its own company. 407 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,280 You know what I'm saying? 408 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,280 People who reinvent the wheel, Apple don't reinvent the wheel. 409 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,280 Except for the click wheel. 410 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,280 That was a big reinvention and they claim they reinvented the wheel with it. 411 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:19,280 I think it's really interesting how Apple has been very careful about getting into the AI game. 412 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,280 Well, because they're terrible at it. 413 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,280 No. 414 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,280 Apple's been the smartest about it. 415 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,280 Absolutely. 416 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,280 And then if you look at how AWS has got nothing but horrible press for the last two weeks 417 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,280 about how they're behind and how that messed up their stock price. 418 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280 You mean two years? 419 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,280 Well, yeah, but I'm talking about they got the crap kicked out of them for the last two weeks. 420 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,280 They've been getting it for two years, right? 421 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:49,280 But they've tried the aspect of investing in Anthropic, the biggest investment they've ever made. 422 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,280 They've tried reinventing Q coming out with... 423 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,280 You know how many times they've reinvented Q? 424 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,280 That's what I'm saying. 425 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,280 You know what I mean? 426 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,280 So the more that people talk about Apple, I'm sorry, that just makes Apple look smarter 427 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,280 because they were like, look, we know that this is not our wheelhouse. 428 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,280 This is not our specialty. 429 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,280 We're going to do enough of it to stay competitive. 430 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:15,280 But I really think that this is a very interesting contrast between the two in this AI race. 431 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:21,280 The main thing I think is interesting about what we see that Jenae has done. 432 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:28,280 It has... It has lowered the bar for entry into something. 433 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,280 And in the same way that... Let me give you a great example, right? 434 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:38,280 You know when kind of pop music and hip hop music really started to suck, right? 435 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:45,280 Was when anybody could just get on the internet and record something and put it out there, right? 436 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,280 And then people could hear it, right? 437 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,280 It used to be that it was vetted. 438 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,280 You couldn't just record something and get it on the airwaves, right? 439 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,280 You would have to go to somebody, somebody had to audition. 440 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,280 Like, okay, yeah, we're going to take you. 441 00:19:58,280 --> 00:19:59,280 We're going to groom you. 442 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,280 We're going to invest in you. 443 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,280 So you're going to go here and like, you know, go to this finishing school. 444 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,280 You're going to music school, blah, blah, blah. 445 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,280 You finally get it out and it's produced. 446 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,280 And then it hits the airwaves and it's a product of some kind, right? 447 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,280 God damn it. 448 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,280 I can't receive it again. 449 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,280 They don't have that now, right? 450 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:23,280 So, so folks could just go on like MySpace or whatever and like record this thing and like, oh, I'm a recording artist. 451 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,280 And then now people are going to listen to me and like, it got worse and worse and worse. 452 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,280 You know, the inch notification of music, right? 453 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,280 You democratize it. 454 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,280 Sure. 455 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,280 But you lowered the bar to get people out in front of people, right? 456 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,280 I mean, the internet did that for a lot of things, right? 457 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,280 Because writing, music, videos. 458 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,280 Yeah. 459 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,280 The distribution became easy to reach a lot of people. 460 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,280 Exactly. 461 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:53,280 And because it became so easy, like, you know, like, you know, any two, you know, any two, no offense, but any, you know, any two, any two dorks out there can go and make a podcast, right? 462 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,280 And get it out there. 463 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,280 Instead of like, you said be like, are you going to talk show? 464 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,280 Are you going to be like, maybe, maybe, maybe public access cable or something like that, right? 465 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:08,280 So, you know, now think about this with any product that requires development, right? 466 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:09,280 Hands on keyboards. 467 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:19,280 You know, so now any, any person who has, you know, 20 bucks to chat GPT or Claude or whatever can vibe code their way into some kind of product and make it look real good to put it out in front of people. 468 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,280 Hey, I've done this thing, right? 469 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,280 But it's actual crap, right? 470 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:31,280 And they didn't have to vet it past anyone who's a systems thinker or an architect or systems engineer or anything like that. 471 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,280 Even an investor is going to be like, man, I don't know about that. 472 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,280 That's not good. 473 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,280 Because it's too easy to do now, right? 474 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,280 The difficulty of doing something meant that you had to think it out. 475 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,280 And now you don't do that. 476 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,280 The fact that it was very expensive because you had to hire other people to do it and pay those engineers. 477 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,280 There, there was more thought put into it. 478 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,280 But I kind of wonder like, it's not always going to be this cheap. 479 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,280 It's just not sustainable to keep chat GPT this cheap. 480 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,280 I mean, we're in the Uber moment of touch. 481 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,280 All the VC money is funding how cheap it is for end users to get a ride. 482 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Exactly. 483 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,280 And right now we're like, oh, cool. 484 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,280 My ride is this much. 485 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,280 And now, you know, all the Uber prices have gone up at least double over the years since when it started. 486 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,280 And I think it's going to go the same way or a lot of the startups are going to shut down because they just can't afford. 487 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:29,280 Gardner just came out saying that majority of the agentic projects will be sunsetted before 2027. 488 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,280 Because that's the runway. 489 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,280 That's like the runway for a lot of startups. 490 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,280 Well, not just that, but I think that right now they want to try everything as an agent. 491 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:47,280 And eventually it's going to, you're going to see like what would have just been better as a bash grip somewhere or regex and programmatically done or what was just not feasible to begin with. 492 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,280 But like, where does this like, where does the fallout end up? 493 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,280 I would agree with you on that. 494 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:59,280 If the fact that people are still trying to put WordPress sites on Kubernetes. 495 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,280 You know what I'm saying? 496 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,280 I really think that that gets some people like that some people's jam that like, let's over complicate this. 497 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,280 And I'm just like, bro, you could have put that website in S3 and made it. 498 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,280 Why are we doing this right now? 499 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,280 When I was coming up, right? 500 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:25,280 You could host a website by, by, you know, logging in SSH to a server, like, you know, making a little going in, going in VI, making a little HTML, blah, blah, blah, blah, right. 501 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,280 And then, you know, major little HTS, because we direct and pop something into the patch. 502 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,280 You're serving your webpage, right? 503 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:37,280 You go in and make a little DNS to point to your thing slash till the username, blah, blah, your host a website, right? 504 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,280 On a server. 505 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,280 That was enough to server static. 506 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,280 And you can serve static assets from there all day long and everything was good. 507 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,280 Fine. Well enough. 508 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,280 Apache web server bind, you know, as it was fine, right? 509 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:50,280 We don't do that no more. 510 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,280 Right. 511 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,280 Even on a static website, you have like CDN, it's got this and got this. 512 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,280 A very, very complicated thing to do the exact same things we were doing before. 513 00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,280 Right. 514 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,280 But to what end? 515 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,280 You know what I'm saying? 516 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:09,280 Like, like if we, we, we have to go in and write a lambda to do a function when users SSH into a server and just run that thing. 517 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,280 And there's some people out there doing the simple way because they absolutely refuse. 518 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,280 But I get what you're saying. 519 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,280 But, but, but where has it, where has the money been? 520 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,280 Right. 521 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,280 The money has been in these ridiculously complicated ways of doing it. 522 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,280 Why? 523 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,280 Because there's money in it. 524 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,280 You know what I'm saying? 525 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,280 But I wonder like how long is the sustainable because the, what was that X? 526 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:36,280 They did like a projection of how profitable AI would have to be to sustain it in the amount of years that it would take is like wild. 527 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,280 You know what I mean? 528 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:49,280 So like, is this then like, I know that they've blown a lot of money before, but this almost seems like, you know, like, is like, does this then affect how they can invest in the future? 529 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Like, what is the fallout? 530 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,280 And like, at that point, have we lost so many people's trust? 531 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,280 I'm going to, I'm going to my, my, my response to this is just Tesla. 532 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:01,280 Right. 533 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,280 Remember people, companies don't have to make a profit on the books. 534 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,280 They just have to sell stock at a profit. 535 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Doesn't matter how much money you lose as long as your stock is going up. 536 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,280 That's what that's what it is. 537 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Right. 538 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,280 Tesla losing money left or right. 539 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Still the moves left. 540 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Whether they want to admit it or not. 541 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,280 Right. 542 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,280 Maybe they made a profit. 543 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Finally. 544 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Right. 545 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,280 After how many years, you know, but it doesn't matter as long as the stock price is good. 546 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,280 Right. 547 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,280 But can we continue this? 548 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,280 Like, how long can we continue this for? 549 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:42,280 As long as, as long as the stock prices are going up, as long as there is return on investment for the investors, nothing else matters. 550 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,280 That is the problem with, with late stage capitalism is that you can make anything as crappy as you want to. 551 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:54,280 You can lose as much money as you want to on the books as long as that stock price keeps going up. 552 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,280 That's the only thing that matters. 553 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:02,280 So it's seeing like just tech from like ISPs to now. 554 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,280 Like, what do you, like, how do you think this next ride is going to go? 555 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:14,280 Like the only, the only thing that's the only thing that is going to save. 556 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,280 Yeah. 557 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:21,280 As we have to, you have to, first of all, you have to put community, not community, consumer protections back. 558 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,280 Right. 559 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,280 The SEC actually has to go in there and like bust some monopolies up. 560 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,280 Right. 561 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,280 There's, there's only like 10 companies anymore. 562 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Really. 563 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,280 Yeah. 564 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,280 You know, that, that, that can do anything to have any sway to control that make any products like that. 565 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,280 You know, how many, how many like really hardware manufacturers are there anymore? 566 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,280 Like for, for consumer, consumer. 567 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,280 It's just a few. 568 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,280 Right. 569 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:51,280 It used to be a lot more and it was a lot more competitive, but also there was a lot less, 570 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,280 you know, of literally a monopoly of information at this point. 571 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,280 Right. 572 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:02,280 You know, between, between Microsoft with all, all majority of the hosted code, I feel like 573 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:08,280 in the world at this point, you got Meta who owns both Facebook and the social media aspects 574 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,280 like that. 575 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,280 You got Apple with a monopoly on these sort of things. 576 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,280 Like there are just a few companies out there that everything funnels to the top to and everything, 577 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,280 every time something is good, they need to buy it up or take it over. 578 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,280 You know what I'm saying? 579 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Meta is famous for that. 580 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,280 Like they will just buy all. 581 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,280 They're having, they're still in a lawsuit about if they need to split out Instagram 582 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,280 because they, they bought it so they could swatch it. 583 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,280 So, so nothing like that is good. 584 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,280 Nothing is going to change until that changes, right? 585 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,280 Until, until we actually break up some of these interests and we make some of these folks 586 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,280 compete against each other. 587 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,280 Right. 588 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,280 Interesting to that point. 589 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,280 Proctor Proctor and Gamble just said that they're going to increase their prices by 25% 590 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,280 to go with tariffs. 591 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,280 Right. 592 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:59,280 And if you think about that, because of the amount of companies and products that Proctor 593 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:05,280 and Gamble now like produce because they are such a monopoly, that one company raising 594 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,280 their prices by 25%, the amount, just the difference that that's going to have on the 595 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280 economy is going to be wild because it's not like just stuff that you can choose not to 596 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,280 buy. 597 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,280 It's laundry detergent. 598 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,280 It's so many things. 599 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,280 They've bought so many companies. 600 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,280 Well, here's the other thing too. 601 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,280 It's not like those prices are going to go back down either. 602 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,280 And it's not like they're, it's not like their competitors are going to keep their prices 603 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,280 down. 604 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,280 Right. 605 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,280 Now they're setting the bar. 606 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,280 You know what I mean? 607 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,280 Yeah. 608 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,280 Anyone else that would be in the space now says, oh, I can make more money. 609 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,280 Right. 610 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:36,280 Like now the price is a different bar. 611 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,280 Yeah. 612 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,280 Look at airlines. 613 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,280 Right. 614 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,280 What is the real, what is the real difference between airline tickets, you know, and to 615 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,280 go from one place to another? 616 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,280 If I die on frontier or not. 617 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,280 Yeah. 618 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:47,280 Yeah. 619 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,280 But like make it on spirit. 620 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,280 You know, but you look at most of your major carriers, you're talking like dozens of dollars, 621 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,280 maybe difference. 622 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,280 The main difference is what time it takes off. 623 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,280 And it's wild because it used to be like nice food on certain airplanes and then no food 624 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:08,280 and like it's really just like it is the most bare minimum of airplane like processes on 625 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,280 all of them now. 626 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:16,280 But I remember, I still remember when you had like American United, Delta, Pan Am, continental, 627 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,280 Eastern, you had all like when you had a bunch more airlines, right? 628 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,280 And then you had a lot more choices. 629 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,280 You don't really have those choices anymore. 630 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,280 Right. 631 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,280 I remember when there were more car manufacturers and you don't really have. 632 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,280 Didn't someone just buy spirit too? 633 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,280 Spirit of Halloween. 634 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,280 Like. 635 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,280 Spirit airlines. 636 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,280 Cause I know Alaska about Hawaiian. 637 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,280 They merged. 638 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,280 Yeah. 639 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,280 Yeah. 640 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,280 That is wild. 641 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,280 Yeah. 642 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,280 So like I don't even think that the smaller companies that we're thinking about are the 643 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,280 smaller companies anymore. 644 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,280 And that's the only way they can really be competitive anymore. 645 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,280 And so you look at all these mergers and stuff like that. 646 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,280 So, so you take that. 647 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,280 Now I want you to take that and look at the tech landscape, right? 648 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,280 Where does all the AI money funnel to in the end? 649 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,280 Nvidia. 650 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,280 Nvidia. 651 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,280 Right. 652 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,280 And Nvidia stock is going to keep going up. 653 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,280 Nvidia is going to keep making investments. 654 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,280 All these other things. 655 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,280 Covered losses. 656 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,280 All these other companies. 657 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,280 Stock price is going to keep going up. 658 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,280 Why would they, why would they care about whether it's profitable or not? 659 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,280 Which is interesting to me. 660 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,280 Cause it's not like there aren't other AI hardware like Google does it. 661 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,280 But they do it for themselves. 662 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,280 They don't typically sell it. 663 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,280 I see a lot of these like. 664 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,280 Graviton at this point. 665 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,280 Graviton is the arm stuff. 666 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,280 They have a Triton. 667 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,280 But they, but they, but all those people still offer Nvidia, Nvidia stuff because. 668 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,280 Yeah. 669 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:38,280 Yeah. 670 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,280 Cause it's the generic one that everyone, it's like, it has the ecosystem. 671 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,280 But what happens when they have too many chips though? 672 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,280 Cause like it cannot be like a lack of chip. 673 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,280 What do you, what do you mean too many chips? 674 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,280 Give me a scenario where that happens. 675 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,280 It's like too many lanes on the highway. 676 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,280 It just, it just fills up. 677 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,280 Yeah. 678 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,280 They're going to use them. 679 00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,280 If they're there, they're going to use them. 680 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,280 This is where I go back to the cloud has made us reckless. 681 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,280 But I mean the heart, but like, okay. 682 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,280 So the cloud. 683 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,280 Yes. 684 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,280 The cloud needs to be powered by something, but like the increase of like these massive 685 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,280 amounts of chips. 686 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,280 Like how is it sustainable? 687 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,280 Like we've, wasn't there like a river that they showed the other day that completely 688 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,280 has like no water. 689 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,280 Here's, here's the thing though. 690 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,280 They don't care whether it's sustainable. 691 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,280 They absolutely do not care. 692 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,280 They will scrape out and destroy every bit of earth. 693 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,280 They can't as long as they can still keep making this stuff. 694 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,280 I think this is also interesting though, as like engineers and as people in tech, 695 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,280 right? 696 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,280 Like we're like, we were talking to Duffy the other day and he was talking about kind 697 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,280 of like looking at the next like train and the next thing that you want to get into. 698 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,280 But like how do new engineers or even engineers that have been in it for a while? 699 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,280 Like what is like the future things that you look towards? 700 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,280 Because I mean, it's hard to figure out like what are we doing next? 701 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,280 Cause it's just like complicating the things that we already did. 702 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,280 This is also the thing where the part that we're not talking about in our industry is 703 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,280 right? 704 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,280 When this is all said and done, what is our, what is our part in this? 705 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,280 Right? 706 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,280 Right? 707 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,280 I mean, you've got everyone who's directly shilling, you know, Gen AI, right? 708 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,280 As if it's a good thing. 709 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,280 Right? 710 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:18,280 And it is like, it's like watching people, you know, um, shill for cigarettes or tobacco 711 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:25,280 or, or, or, you know, um, alcohol or heroin, like there are, there's enough information. 712 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,280 Or web free. 713 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,280 Yeah. 714 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,280 Well, I mean, there's enough information right already out now that, that using DNA is actively 715 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,280 harmful. 716 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,280 Like actively harmful for mental health, for your cognitive, so like that for your ability 717 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,280 or reasons like that. 718 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,280 Right? 719 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,280 There's, there's already studies out on that. 720 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,280 Right? 721 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,280 Because we already know what its ecological impact is. 722 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,280 Right? 723 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280 We already know, right? 724 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,280 What is, what its economic impact is to like, you know, to, to, to, uh, various cities and 725 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,780 stuff like that, to people, you know, people's jobs are like that. 726 00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:58,280 But yet we're having people who come out here and still saying, Oh, well, it's a good thing. 727 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,280 And how? 728 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,280 Right? 729 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,280 Where people who are saying, Oh, this should be mandated that people have to use it. 730 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,280 Right? 731 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,280 Right? 732 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,240 And, and I want you to think about, imagine if they mandated that people had to use hair 733 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240 or what? 734 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,560 You know what I mean? 735 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,200 Like does it make you feel good? 736 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,200 Can it make you faster? 737 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,200 Maybe like he's good. 738 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,200 All right. 739 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,200 We're going to mandate. 740 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,200 Everyone's got to do, going to do a bump of cocaine like every hour to make them more 741 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,200 productive. 742 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,200 Right? 743 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,240 That just makes me think about when Coke used to be put, I meant when cocaine was put 744 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,240 in Coke. 745 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,240 So does, you know what I mean? 746 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,240 Like, bro, if I'm telling you right now, if you had little kids walking around just 747 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,240 like, if you had all these engineers, if you had all these engineers here snort methamphetamine, 748 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,240 I'm pretty sure they'd be very productive and it'd be less horrible for the atmosphere. 749 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,240 Wasn't there like an article the other day about how many people that are on Wall Street 750 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,240 are doing Adderall? 751 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,240 Like, are we not? 752 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,240 Like it seems like they're already doing it. 753 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,240 But, but the interesting part is here we're saying, well, oh, it's, well, it's a net good 754 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,240 because eventually it will do this or it was to do this or whatever. 755 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,240 I was like, but these were things we could already do before. 756 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,240 That's why I'm just so confused. 757 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:07,240 Like I feel like the logical part of my brain is like, okay, these pieces go together and 758 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,240 like just I am failing to see the logic and like where this goes next. 759 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:16,240 The thing that happens is when we ask him at what cost, right? 760 00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:22,240 And then that just gets smoothed over because no one really wants to talk about at what cost. 761 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:27,240 I think what you're saying before about consumer protections like FCC needs to go in and break 762 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:28,240 up some non-belief. 763 00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:32,240 I also think on the other end, I've, I've definitely come around to the collective bargaining 764 00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:34,240 of the employees, right? 765 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:40,240 Being able to say, we're not doing this as a whole and nowhere in technology do they 766 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:44,240 have that power to say, no, this is, this costs too much. 767 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:49,240 People are individually walking out and saying, no, and some big names have, you know, been 768 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:51,240 outspoken about that, but it's not a collective whole. 769 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:52,240 The company does not care. 770 00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:54,240 There's like, okay, we'll go to next. 771 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:58,240 What I think is really interesting about tech is we, you know, we, you know, this big, 772 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:03,240 big, you know, DevOps movement that's been around what 15 years now or whatever. 773 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:07,240 And it's a big fancy way of just saying, Hey, we're going to collaborate. 774 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:08,240 There's all this. 775 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,240 How do we collaborate? 776 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,240 I think that's why I love DevOps the most because to me it's got the most human collaborative 777 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:16,240 community, like version of tech. 778 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:17,240 You know what I mean? 779 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:21,240 But this, that problem has been figured out by every other industry forever ago. 780 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,240 Restaurants have figured it out. 781 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:23,240 Doctors have figured it out. 782 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:25,240 Automatically, they've just figured it out. 783 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,240 Construction has figured this out. 784 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,240 Like everyone's already figured out how to collaborate between disparate concerns and 785 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,240 disparate stakeholders to, to work together and do one thing. 786 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:33,240 Right? 787 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:34,240 That's how, that's how. 788 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:39,240 I also love open source because it is like, I think DevOps and open source go so well 789 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,240 together because of the collaborative. 790 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,240 Open source is the ren fair of technology. 791 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:44,240 It is. 792 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:49,240 Did you see Tim's face when you said that? 793 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,240 You heard a part of his soul. 794 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:58,240 I would only say that maybe if you're trying to like unwashed bodies by numbers. 795 00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:59,240 Wow. 796 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:00,240 percentage. 797 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:03,240 I want to say you're wrong, but. 798 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:06,240 Go, go, go, go, smell around a ren fair. 799 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:07,240 Tell me I'm wrong. 800 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,240 And that's my least favorite part. 801 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:17,240 But, but, uh, but I think what the reason I'm saying that is because all these other 802 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:20,240 industries also figured out the importance of unions. 803 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,240 Right. 804 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:22,240 Construction. 805 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:26,640 I was going to manufacture manufacturing engineers ever get to a point where they unionize 806 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,440 because I feel like we're constantly in between the golden handcuffs and like, and I feel like 807 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,640 the chance that we had to unionize was like kind of like fumbled. 808 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,240 And do we ever get that chance? 809 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:44,960 We have to reckon with the fact before we ever unionize, we have to reckon with the 810 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:51,840 fact that what we are doing requires no more brain power than being a plumber or being 811 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,440 an architect or being, you know, a carpenter or anything like that. 812 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,440 Right. 813 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,000 And until we do that, we're going to think we don't need to do that because those unions 814 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,560 are for, for, for those kinds of jobs, for blue collar, how people don't see the connection 815 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:06,560 though you're all building. 816 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,840 I do think that AI opened a lot of people's eyes of like, maybe I'm not that special. 817 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:10,840 Right. 818 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:16,000 Like maybe, maybe this, this pattern that has been trained in this model that spits it 819 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,280 back out of the thing that I wanted. 820 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,480 I do think that's been an eyeopener for a lot of people of like actually before, but 821 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,280 you were looking it up on Stack Overflow. 822 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,680 The pattern wasn't a secret. 823 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:26,680 Right. 824 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,280 The thing you had to connect to that's here's the thing is a, and I love this argument. 825 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,280 Well, it's no different than looking up with Stack Overflow. 826 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,280 Yes. 827 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,280 No, I'm not saying that. 828 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,280 No, no, no. 829 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,280 Wait. 830 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,960 I'm not saying that AI isn't different, but I'm saying you, we're getting information. 831 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:43,960 Right. 832 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,240 And but like, I think when it was Stack Overflow, like I'm actually really sad that I think 833 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,880 we're going to lose the community of Stack Overflow, even if they were mean, but it was 834 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,200 a bunch of people solving the same problems and then leaving breadcrumbs behind for other 835 00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,680 people to solve those problems. 836 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:00,680 Right. 837 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:01,680 Right. 838 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,160 Like this, don't get me wrong, using AI is different. 839 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,800 They're not the same, but it's still going and seeking out information to help you solve 840 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,800 a problem. 841 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,520 It now depends on if you're using your brain to help you solve that problem or if you're 842 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,520 vibe coding. 843 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,520 Yeah. 844 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,520 Yeah. 845 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,760 How could you think that, like nobody was special on their own. 846 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,080 I don't care how big your ego is, you were special because you were out, you were good 847 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,720 to, you were able to find that information and then make it make sense. 848 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:32,440 But you, like every engineer depended on somebody else and their breadcrumbs. 849 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,440 You know what I mean? 850 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,720 You say that until, until the startup hires the Rockstar engineer or the 10x engineer or 851 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,920 this engineer is like, oh, they can figure out everything on their own. 852 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:40,920 They don't need anything else. 853 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:41,920 But they don't though. 854 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,520 They like, that is the ego and the fact that they, right. 855 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,280 And, and that people who break everything and never know how to take accountability 856 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,280 for it. 857 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,520 But, but that, but that ego is what will keep us from unionizing for a long time. 858 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,400 I think that ego has kept us from unionizing. 859 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,400 And that's what I'm saying. 860 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:05,840 Like, like until, until we can accept that, until we can accept that, like, like, oh, 861 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,360 well, I'm smarter than, no, you're not. 862 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,360 You actually are not. 863 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,440 But like, you know what blows my mind though? 864 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,440 Like majority. 865 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,440 Okay. 866 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,160 If you think about all the people that we have interviewed on this podcast that are 867 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,560 like amazing technologists, what are the things that they all have in common? 868 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:23,560 They've all been on this podcast. 869 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,560 Did you go to college? 870 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:25,560 Absolutely not. 871 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:26,560 Okay. 872 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,680 Look, think about it. 873 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,840 Majority of people did not go to college. 874 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,960 Majority of people have had many jobs and all different kinds of jobs that, that changes 875 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680 their perspective on how they like come to technology, right? 876 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,360 Like Kelsey Hightower, Duffy, uh, like all these people. 877 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,360 I think Angie Jones is the only person that has like a straight computer science degree. 878 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:51,360 You know what I mean? 879 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,360 Yeah. 880 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:53,360 Straight. 881 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,360 But you know what I mean? 882 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,120 Like an act, like a typical computer science degree, right? 883 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,480 So like, it's just funny because I mean, I have a master's in IT. 884 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,480 Like that's. 885 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,480 You what? 886 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Yeah. 887 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,480 Like there's, yeah. 888 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,080 I think that the correlation there, there's more, what every, every year Nicholas Cage 889 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,080 has a movie come out. 890 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,600 There's more pool drownings, right? 891 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,600 Like that's a very broad like statement of like, this is what happens with the data, 892 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,320 but not actually like necessarily cause. 893 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:25,280 I think good people, people that's that want to do good and are kind to other people will 894 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,240 do better for the broader industry. 895 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,880 But there are a lot of, there's a lot of money and there's a lot of egos and there's 896 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:32,880 a lot of right. 897 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:40,040 I do think that people that have have a background of multiple of trying like things in the physical 898 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,640 realm and different jobs and just like, I think that for one, you're proven that you've 899 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,480 tried different things and you've learned how to succeed at different things, right? 900 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,640 Like if all you do is go to school and succeed at one thing, I'm not saying that you're not 901 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,320 a good engineer, but I do think that there is a difference of like having different jobs, 902 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,560 trying different things and like having a diverse background. 903 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,640 So the question I have autumn is how many of us are CEOs of these companies that actually 904 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:17,800 are making setting the direction and and and we're not right because by and large, right? 905 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,400 Because we don't think like they think. 906 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,400 But I think that's a lot. 907 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:29,760 I think there is a very distinct attitude of where the technological world is going. 908 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,960 If we could talk to people that are building it and using it and who have been there a 909 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:41,520 long time versus the like executives, the the vast majority of the people I know in 910 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,040 this industry, right? 911 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:49,720 This is their life, not their job, their life, right? 912 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:54,400 And when you when you when you make that their life, then they have it has to be supposed 913 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,680 has to be important. 914 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,320 They have to do this because it is their whole life. 915 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,120 It's like anybody else like if I've dedicated my life to this thing, right? 916 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,800 You're going to tell me that I'm not that good at it, not that special at it. 917 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,440 Like it's going to be real hard. 918 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,880 It's like the thing that when I tell people it's like a first time people like when somebody 919 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,560 is like really into a company, right? 920 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,440 Oh, I've been working here for like 10, 15 years, whatever. 921 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,360 And then they get laid off and they don't know what to do. 922 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,000 I definitely think it becomes part of like, like if you're not careful, it can become 923 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,240 part of your self-worth, but I don't understand why they can't like why it isn't like you 924 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:33,800 can be good at something and still admit that it takes community and that it's not just 925 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,040 the fact that you are individually like a freaking genius all on your own. 926 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,800 Like I think it's, it's even more than that. 927 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,320 You can be good at something and also realize it's not that important. 928 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,320 That's the bigger part. 929 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,560 It is not that important. 930 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,000 You are not that important in this thing. 931 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,880 There are how many other software engineers out there? 932 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,880 There are how many other operators? 933 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:52,880 You know what I'm saying? 934 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,000 Like you are doing this thing. 935 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,240 You are replaceable. 936 00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,740 All of us are replaceable. 937 00:42:56,740 --> 00:42:58,180 And because of that, right? 938 00:42:58,180 --> 00:43:03,060 It is important that we do things together, that we act as one, right? 939 00:43:03,060 --> 00:43:08,220 Because if they can just replace you with anybody else and they can and they will, right, 940 00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,820 then everyone has to be in the same sheet of music, right? 941 00:43:10,820 --> 00:43:12,300 You have to bargain collectively. 942 00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:18,820 You have to insist on these things as a unit, as a whole, as a practice, as a trade, as 943 00:43:18,820 --> 00:43:20,620 a guild, right? 944 00:43:20,620 --> 00:43:25,460 Otherwise, they're going to just nearly, willy-nilly everything for anybody like that. 945 00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:28,460 We don't have the protections that they have in Europe for these jobs. 946 00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:30,700 We don't have the protections they have in Canada for these jobs. 947 00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:34,060 We don't have the protections that other folks in this country or in the U.S. have had 948 00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:35,380 to fight for to do. 949 00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:39,860 And the other thing these companies, when you try to, the companies that launch here, 950 00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:44,460 will do everything they can to bust the union effort, right? 951 00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:48,780 So again, this goes to the fact that we don't have the kinds of regulations we need to do 952 00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:51,580 to protect either the consumers or the employees. 953 00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:55,060 Everything is here just to put money in the pockets of investors. 954 00:43:55,060 --> 00:44:02,700 And almost always, almost always, so much that it should be the name of a law, right? 955 00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:08,300 What is good for investors is mutually exclusive to that, which is good for employees or consumers. 956 00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:19,300 I don't think we're getting those laws anytime soon. 957 00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:24,380 But when we come back to what is our part in this, right? 958 00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:28,500 How ready can we admit to the polls, like, yeah, like, oh, wow, like, you know, we were 959 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:33,020 absolutely ready to lambaste and ridicule out of the industry. 960 00:44:33,020 --> 00:44:37,940 And we have people who are big into Web 3, like people who are huge into Web 3, but we 961 00:44:37,940 --> 00:44:40,940 don't hear about them no more. 962 00:44:40,940 --> 00:44:41,940 You know what I'm saying? 963 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:42,940 NFTs. 964 00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:45,300 NFTs are nowhere to be found. 965 00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:48,980 And, right, right. 966 00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:53,140 And those people got real quiet, right? 967 00:44:53,140 --> 00:45:00,700 But how many of the people we know, respect and love, right, are shilling AI, right? 968 00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:02,660 And those are going to say, like, look, this is not great. 969 00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:03,660 This is not good. 970 00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:04,900 Like, this is not it. 971 00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:06,340 This is not the vibe. 972 00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:12,060 This is not, you know, this is not the moment, right? 973 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:13,060 But to what end? 974 00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:16,020 I'm not saying that they should be treated like people who have a Web 3, because I think 975 00:45:16,020 --> 00:45:21,020 there was great promise, but I do think there does need to be a reckoning, and we as an 976 00:45:21,020 --> 00:45:26,660 industry need to stop with the, this is brand new and everyone wants to jump on board, right? 977 00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:37,580 We should be much, much, much more skeptical of stuff, because that's the way, early days 978 00:45:37,580 --> 00:45:40,980 of open, early days of open source, man, you had to go in front of stuff like that and 979 00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:44,660 like put something, they would lambaste you, but you had to really prove something, you 980 00:45:44,660 --> 00:45:45,660 know what I'm saying? 981 00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:49,740 Like, like, it should be where you have to go in front of like some people with some 982 00:45:49,740 --> 00:45:53,260 experience and actually convince them before you get airtime, right? 983 00:45:53,260 --> 00:45:58,580 You know, you know, like, like, I think people have a choice now, though, everybody, like 984 00:45:58,580 --> 00:46:00,460 there's so many layoffs and things going on. 985 00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:05,100 I don't know if people feel that I think they do, but I don't, but in a way, like, people 986 00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,780 are just trying to like pay their mortgage at this moment, you know, right? 987 00:46:08,820 --> 00:46:14,580 And we are, we are, and we are absolutely in some, in some ways a bit of our making, 988 00:46:14,580 --> 00:46:17,420 but also we're also victims of circumstance here, right? 989 00:46:17,420 --> 00:46:22,220 But the other aspect of it is that it's not going to get any better until we say, like, 990 00:46:22,220 --> 00:46:23,540 okay, we're going to make this change. 991 00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:24,580 That's true. 992 00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:32,100 You know, personally, I am, I am very much of a fan as the person who leads the company 993 00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:33,380 should be the one that wins by combat. 994 00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:39,140 Like you should be able to, I should be able to go to CEO of any company and be like, let's 995 00:46:39,140 --> 00:46:41,220 fight and the winner gets the winner gets to lead the company. 996 00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:47,820 I mean, I like my chances here, like a black belt, like now all of us are black belt. 997 00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:51,380 Hey, look, these CEOs could have been doing something better with their lives. 998 00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:56,700 They could have, they could have been studying martial arts. 999 00:46:56,740 --> 00:47:01,460 I was still waiting for the, uh, the Elon and, uh, I'm so sad. 1000 00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:05,340 Oh, the Elon, the Elon, the Elon Zuckerberg fight. 1001 00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:06,300 Here's the thing. 1002 00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:06,860 Here's the thing. 1003 00:47:07,220 --> 00:47:07,580 Here's the thing. 1004 00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:11,340 Both of them are big fucking cowards. 1005 00:47:12,220 --> 00:47:12,740 The two of them. 1006 00:47:12,940 --> 00:47:16,500 And, and, and, and I will look, look, I will go right now. 1007 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:20,780 I will challenge Zuckerberg or Elon Musk right now, right now. 1008 00:47:21,060 --> 00:47:23,780 Half of your fortune right now, Zuckerberg. 1009 00:47:23,780 --> 00:47:24,860 I know you trained your jitsu. 1010 00:47:25,540 --> 00:47:26,020 Come on. 1011 00:47:26,540 --> 00:47:27,500 Half of your fortune. 1012 00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:29,740 I, BJJF rules. 1013 00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:35,420 I just want to know like who, like, who were you rooting for because you have 1014 00:47:35,420 --> 00:47:39,940 the knowledge of like BBJ, like, which one did you have your money on? 1015 00:47:40,420 --> 00:47:41,020 Oh, Zuckerberg. 1016 00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:42,700 Oh, Elon was not even. 1017 00:47:43,100 --> 00:47:45,140 No, Elon, Elon, are you kidding? 1018 00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:46,140 Are you kidding? 1019 00:47:47,020 --> 00:47:47,940 Are you kidding? 1020 00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:49,580 Mark Zuckerberg in my life? 1021 00:47:49,580 --> 00:47:51,660 It's not even, it's not even rooting for it. 1022 00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:54,220 It is, it is, it is reality. 1023 00:47:54,460 --> 00:47:55,700 It is absolute reality. 1024 00:47:56,220 --> 00:48:00,620 I think the question was, would, would there have been like a permanent injury 1025 00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:01,260 for Elon? 1026 00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:06,020 I'm just saying that, like, if I had, if we, like, if we all had to exist in 1027 00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:10,420 this new timeline that is garbage, that could have at least given us a 1028 00:48:10,420 --> 00:48:11,260 little bit of joy. 1029 00:48:11,260 --> 00:48:13,060 Like it was the least they could have done. 1030 00:48:15,420 --> 00:48:19,820 I will, I will, I'll be very clear on this and, and, and I want this to be 1031 00:48:19,820 --> 00:48:27,460 unequivocal, like the number of people that Elon Musk could be in a fight 1032 00:48:28,060 --> 00:48:32,620 is smaller than the number of people that could beat Elon Musk in a fight 1033 00:48:34,060 --> 00:48:34,780 in the world. 1034 00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:40,100 Thanks for that. 1035 00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:43,260 It seems, it seems logical to me. 1036 00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:45,340 Everyone just missed the Justin phase. 1037 00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:46,460 It was adorable. 1038 00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:47,540 Hey, this video is going up. 1039 00:48:47,540 --> 00:48:48,620 We'll, we'll, we'll post the video. 1040 00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:49,020 It's fine. 1041 00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:52,500 Tim, you said something earlier and I wanted to ask, you said, all these 1042 00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,500 people, startup entrepreneurs are asking people that succeeded, but not the 1043 00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:57,260 people that failed. 1044 00:48:58,020 --> 00:49:00,700 What's something that you failed in, that you learned from? 1045 00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:02,660 Oh man. 1046 00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:06,300 Uh, you know, like I've been fired from jobs before. 1047 00:49:07,260 --> 00:49:14,060 You know, like, uh, I, uh, I had the, I think it's like you fired from jobs. 1048 00:49:14,060 --> 00:49:15,740 You know, I've had failed relationships. 1049 00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:17,700 I've had like personal failures. 1050 00:49:18,140 --> 00:49:24,500 Like, uh, you know, so like failure is, it's not even a thing I fear anymore. 1051 00:49:25,700 --> 00:49:26,460 You know what I'm saying? 1052 00:49:26,540 --> 00:49:33,220 Like, like, and I'll give you a great example, uh, in jujitsu, right? 1053 00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:37,460 You know, the first thing, the first two things you learn how to do the first 1054 00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:41,460 is fall and the second is how to lose because you lose a lot. 1055 00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:42,620 You lose all the time. 1056 00:49:43,380 --> 00:49:49,980 You spend your first probably year of jujitsu losing all the time, every day, 1057 00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:53,900 day in, day out, getting smashed, getting beat, getting roughed up. 1058 00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:54,580 Get, you know what I'm saying? 1059 00:49:54,580 --> 00:50:00,820 Like, like it is not any body, anybody with, not everyone, but there's sort 1060 00:50:00,820 --> 00:50:05,660 of, but, but pretty much any person, even if you have some, some, some physical 1061 00:50:05,660 --> 00:50:11,420 challenges is capable of doing Brazilian jujitsu, but not every person's 1062 00:50:11,420 --> 00:50:13,620 heart, mind, and soul are capable of doing that. 1063 00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:17,940 It is, it will chew up your ego and spit it out. 1064 00:50:18,740 --> 00:50:18,980 Right. 1065 00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:26,900 Um, and so learning how to deal with that kind of failure on the progress as, 1066 00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:33,140 as, as the, the price you pay to get good at jujitsu, um, is one of the biggest 1067 00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:34,220 lessons I've ever had in my life. 1068 00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:40,300 But if you want to talk about like how, like a things I failed at, like, oh man, 1069 00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:41,740 I've failed a lot of stuff. 1070 00:50:42,220 --> 00:50:43,340 I've had failed restaurants. 1071 00:50:43,900 --> 00:50:44,220 What do you mean? 1072 00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:45,420 What's, what's a lesson you take? 1073 00:50:45,420 --> 00:50:46,540 You had a restaurant? 1074 00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:49,860 I've, I've, I've been, I've opened three restaurants. 1075 00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:52,580 I was like the executive chef. 1076 00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:54,260 I wasn't like the money person like that. 1077 00:50:54,260 --> 00:50:55,300 That was, that was, but yeah. 1078 00:50:56,780 --> 00:50:59,780 I love hearing about the whole lives people had before tech. 1079 00:51:01,140 --> 00:51:04,260 Um, so like, what's the, what was the question? 1080 00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:05,460 What's the biggest lesson? 1081 00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:07,620 What's a lesson you've learned from one of those failures, right? 1082 00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:10,540 Like the failures happen and we're wrong about a lot of things. 1083 00:51:10,540 --> 00:51:14,300 And usually we change our mind or we change how we act or how we approach a 1084 00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:14,820 problem. 1085 00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:18,940 You, I honestly, the biggest thing I have learned from my failures is that 1086 00:51:18,940 --> 00:51:20,140 failure is not something to fear. 1087 00:51:23,260 --> 00:51:23,460 Right. 1088 00:51:23,940 --> 00:51:31,860 Um, failure, people who are successful all the time are lying. 1089 00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:34,780 Nobody is successful all the time. 1090 00:51:34,940 --> 00:51:36,100 Nobody's a hundred percent anything. 1091 00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:36,340 Right. 1092 00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:43,500 And the, and, and how you fail, how you learn, how you deal with failing and how 1093 00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:47,340 you learn from failing is, is as important, if not more important than how you 1094 00:51:47,340 --> 00:51:47,740 lose sleep. 1095 00:51:47,740 --> 00:51:51,380 And, and so like my, uh, my, my daughter, right? 1096 00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:53,540 Uh, my, my 14 year old, 15 year old now, right? 1097 00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:57,460 Uh, as a two-time world champion in Brazilian jiu-jitsu for her, when she was 1098 00:51:57,460 --> 00:51:57,940 eight, right? 1099 00:51:58,540 --> 00:52:06,020 Um, she'd never lost a fight until last month and she went in against the 1100 00:52:06,020 --> 00:52:08,700 current reigning Pan American champion in her age division. 1101 00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:12,980 And she got, she, she got, she just got rocked. 1102 00:52:13,140 --> 00:52:17,220 She got put on her back and just absolutely dominated the whole thing. 1103 00:52:17,260 --> 00:52:17,580 Right. 1104 00:52:18,140 --> 00:52:24,260 And, you know, I was there and, and, and, and my, my ex, her mom is also a 1105 00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:25,380 black belt Brazilian jiu-jitsu. 1106 00:52:25,380 --> 00:52:29,780 We're both high level competitors and like, you know, we're blah, blah, blah. 1107 00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:30,540 We watched it happen. 1108 00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:35,100 And I was like the first thing that I had to do was like, she came off there and 1109 00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:36,620 I was like, I'm proud of you. 1110 00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:38,980 You did great. 1111 00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:40,300 Yeah. 1112 00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:41,140 That's a big moment. 1113 00:52:41,340 --> 00:52:45,460 And, um, if she was really upset, she was really upset, right? 1114 00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:47,500 Cause she had that had never happened to her before. 1115 00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:47,780 Right. 1116 00:52:48,580 --> 00:52:50,860 And I was like, you didn't fail. 1117 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:52,100 Right. 1118 00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:53,900 You didn't win, but you didn't fail. 1119 00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:55,140 You went out there, you did a good job. 1120 00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:59,540 You did, you did, you know, your best, um, you had a hard competitor. 1121 00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:00,780 She's really good. 1122 00:53:01,220 --> 00:53:01,500 Right. 1123 00:53:01,660 --> 00:53:03,060 That doesn't mean you're bad. 1124 00:53:04,020 --> 00:53:04,220 Right. 1125 00:53:04,220 --> 00:53:05,100 It just means she's better than you. 1126 00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:05,340 Right. 1127 00:53:06,140 --> 00:53:08,700 And just as like, okay, let's get you some food. 1128 00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:10,060 Let's get you blah, blah, blah. 1129 00:53:10,100 --> 00:53:13,740 And like two hours later, she's chit-chatting with her friends, you know, on 1130 00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:15,900 discord and playing games, stuff like that, you know? 1131 00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:21,860 Um, and I think that's great because I know grown ass dudes who will go home and 1132 00:53:21,860 --> 00:53:23,940 just, they're just despondent because they lost. 1133 00:53:23,940 --> 00:53:24,380 They cannot. 1134 00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:28,100 I was just going to say that I thought that it's such a wonderful lesson to 1135 00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:32,940 learn at that age, like, bro, we come into contact with people every day that 1136 00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:37,100 they could have become better humans, learning how to fail and learn, but, 1137 00:53:37,460 --> 00:53:40,260 and learning how to manage those emotions while failing. 1138 00:53:40,420 --> 00:53:41,180 You know what I mean? 1139 00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:46,140 Like, because I like, I'm sorry, but like, look at the news and how many people 1140 00:53:46,140 --> 00:53:50,540 who have like mass shootings and craziness because they were told no, you 1141 00:53:50,540 --> 00:53:51,060 know what I mean? 1142 00:53:51,060 --> 00:53:52,700 Or because they weren't able to do something. 1143 00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:57,700 Like every, every woman I know, it has, has to run through the checklist of 1144 00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:02,100 telling a dude, no, I swear to God, it's the scariest thing that you have ever 1145 00:54:02,140 --> 00:54:02,820 experienced. 1146 00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:05,020 Like people are like, well, why don't you just tell them? 1147 00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:05,220 No. 1148 00:54:05,220 --> 00:54:06,260 Why don't you just end the day? 1149 00:54:06,260 --> 00:54:10,100 And you're like, cause I'm scared for my actual life the whole entire time. 1150 00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:13,940 How many times have I told you both I was going on a date and that like, if I 1151 00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:17,500 didn't like call until like, or a text and so long to make sure that I wasn't 1152 00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:18,820 dead, both of you. 1153 00:54:19,580 --> 00:54:21,740 I'm going to, I mean, I'm still waiting. 1154 00:54:21,740 --> 00:54:23,060 You should be sharing your location. 1155 00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:23,540 We'll talk. 1156 00:54:24,060 --> 00:54:26,100 I, but like, but that, but that's what I'm saying. 1157 00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:30,460 Like that, like that is such a wonderful lesson, but it's like such a poignant 1158 00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:35,220 lesson because we know adults who have never had to learn how to manage those 1159 00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:37,340 emotions and work through that. 1160 00:54:37,380 --> 00:54:40,140 And a lot of those adults assume that this is a zero sum game. 1161 00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:40,820 Yes. 1162 00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:41,780 They have to win. 1163 00:54:42,020 --> 00:54:43,180 Otherwise there's nothing. 1164 00:54:43,220 --> 00:54:46,820 And it's really sad because how many kids events, because we all have children 1165 00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:51,460 and they all play sports, how many kids have we been at where the adult is 1166 00:54:51,460 --> 00:54:55,900 then teaching the next generation of children that a same mindset of zero 1167 00:54:55,900 --> 00:55:00,140 some, the great thing I like about being a ref in Brazilian jiu-jitsu is you 1168 00:55:00,140 --> 00:55:01,460 have to be a brown belt or a black belt. 1169 00:55:01,460 --> 00:55:05,980 So, you know, like when the parents yell at me, I'm like, you sure about that? 1170 00:55:07,820 --> 00:55:08,700 I love you so much. 1171 00:55:08,740 --> 00:55:12,780 But I wanted to say though, my favorite, like you were amazing technologist. 1172 00:55:12,780 --> 00:55:14,140 You have great spicy takes. 1173 00:55:14,140 --> 00:55:15,980 But my favorite thing about you is your heart. 1174 00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:22,260 Like I love that you just like, you just, you're just like a big teddy bear. 1175 00:55:22,260 --> 00:55:25,900 Like I don't care how much jiu-jitsu you do and all the spiciness. 1176 00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:29,540 Oh, I am, I am, I am the softest apart. 1177 00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:31,460 I love that about you. 1178 00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:34,420 I cry, I cry at commercials. 1179 00:55:34,540 --> 00:55:36,460 But I love that you own that shit. 1180 00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:40,500 Yeah, because like we need more examples of like 1181 00:55:41,780 --> 00:55:43,380 being able to do that. 1182 00:55:43,380 --> 00:55:46,940 And then I love that if anyone talks shit about you, you could also beat them up. 1183 00:55:46,940 --> 00:55:48,340 Like, you know what I mean? 1184 00:55:48,340 --> 00:55:52,620 Like, like you are just like the complexity is delicious. 1185 00:55:52,620 --> 00:55:53,780 Like, I love this for you. 1186 00:55:53,780 --> 00:55:58,180 But the thing is, is that that like, you know, it's like, did I did I 1187 00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:59,420 lose a match? Yeah. 1188 00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:00,420 OK, that's fine. 1189 00:56:00,420 --> 00:56:05,020 Well, that and I love that you, I love that you are willing to say the thing 1190 00:56:05,020 --> 00:56:07,660 that everybody is thinking, but is too scared to say. 1191 00:56:08,980 --> 00:56:10,620 Like half the time. 1192 00:56:10,620 --> 00:56:14,460 OK, but I do have a question out of all the spicy takes you've ever had. 1193 00:56:15,220 --> 00:56:19,860 Have you ever like committed to one and then been like, oh, shit, I was wrong. 1194 00:56:20,140 --> 00:56:21,340 Yes. 1195 00:56:21,340 --> 00:56:25,420 Like, what is the spiciest take that you like fully committed to? 1196 00:56:25,420 --> 00:56:26,580 And then you're like, you know what? 1197 00:56:26,580 --> 00:56:30,420 God, what did I is this is one on Twitter and I can't remember what it was. 1198 00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:35,940 And I and I, you know, the the actual thing what it was like that it was 1199 00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:39,700 something it was it was when, you know, you know, when the leftist purity 1200 00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:41,540 tests were on Twitter, they had for a while, right? 1201 00:56:41,540 --> 00:56:42,980 Oh, sweet Jesus. 1202 00:56:44,980 --> 00:56:45,820 Not ready. 1203 00:56:45,820 --> 00:56:48,700 You know, like, and so like I've I've been in the Marine Corps. 1204 00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:49,820 I was in the military. 1205 00:56:49,820 --> 00:56:53,780 And then like, you know, purity leftist Twitter came after me for being 1206 00:56:53,780 --> 00:56:56,060 like a warmonger in the 90s. 1207 00:56:56,060 --> 00:56:58,620 And I was like, I was like, bro, it was 93. 1208 00:56:59,060 --> 00:57:03,620 And I was trying to get out of my parents' house and get some money together. 1209 00:57:03,620 --> 00:57:05,900 And college wasn't an option for me. 1210 00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:08,700 So like, I don't, you know, yeah, I joined the record. 1211 00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:10,500 I was like, yeah, I was I was 18. 1212 00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:11,020 That was the thing. 1213 00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:13,580 Like also that's such a privilege take for somebody. 1214 00:57:13,580 --> 00:57:18,660 You know, I mean, I think that I think that there was a there was a there was 1215 00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:21,220 a lot of college going white kids who were coming after me out. 1216 00:57:21,220 --> 00:57:23,060 And I was like, I'm like, that's all we'll get. 1217 00:57:23,060 --> 00:57:24,740 Well, like, well, I was poor too. 1218 00:57:24,740 --> 00:57:26,060 I'm like, but you were poor and white. 1219 00:57:26,620 --> 00:57:29,180 But well, not just that, but there's different levels of poor. 1220 00:57:29,180 --> 00:57:29,620 Yeah. OK. 1221 00:57:29,620 --> 00:57:32,820 Like pretending that, like, there's not different levels of what you 1222 00:57:32,820 --> 00:57:36,620 experience when you're like middle class or lower middle class. 1223 00:57:36,620 --> 00:57:40,220 And then, like, making out with poverty and then pop. 1224 00:57:40,220 --> 00:57:40,820 Like, you know what I mean? 1225 00:57:40,820 --> 00:57:46,580 Those are very different, like and the and the thing is, like, this issue is, 1226 00:57:46,580 --> 00:57:51,620 is that the system is such that that is one of the only options for a lot of people. 1227 00:57:51,940 --> 00:57:54,260 And we don't have other options for people out there. 1228 00:57:54,260 --> 00:57:57,220 Like for the like, you know, like, I think, especially for people of color, 1229 00:57:57,220 --> 00:58:01,740 it is a very like it is one of the few ways that a lot of people have to change 1230 00:58:01,740 --> 00:58:06,020 their class, like to go from poverty to a little bit less than poverty or to buy a 1231 00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:07,860 house because people are buy a house. 1232 00:58:08,060 --> 00:58:09,380 You get some generational wealth. 1233 00:58:09,380 --> 00:58:10,500 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1234 00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:15,380 I think that people I think there's a lot of people that that's not 1235 00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:17,980 that was not their first choice, but it was their only. 1236 00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:21,380 And so. And so, like, it was, you know, 1237 00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:23,700 it was one of those things and I can't remember what I said, but essentially, 1238 00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:28,180 it was it was that it was essentially just just like, like, I don't know why 1239 00:58:28,180 --> 00:58:29,620 you're you're blaming me here. 1240 00:58:29,620 --> 00:58:32,620 Like, you know, in the essence, in the essence of a lot of ways, 1241 00:58:32,620 --> 00:58:34,540 I'm you know, I'm a victim to the system, too. 1242 00:58:34,540 --> 00:58:36,700 Right. And a lot of people have problems. 1243 00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:41,260 And I would say that, yes, to an extent, I was I am like the rest of us, 1244 00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:43,420 you know, grounded as a capitalism. 1245 00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:46,860 But also, like, it wasn't it wasn't necessarily the best way to go about it. 1246 00:58:46,860 --> 00:58:50,900 Because, like, it wasn't that like, yeah, do I do I regret to join the Marine Corps now? 1247 00:58:51,740 --> 00:58:54,700 Right. Would I have would I have done it? 1248 00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:57,460 Had I other options? No. 1249 00:58:57,460 --> 00:59:03,220 But I think there's still the same kind of like people also will sit there 1250 00:59:03,220 --> 00:59:06,020 and blame you if you take out student loans and then say, well, 1251 00:59:06,340 --> 00:59:09,300 you have to pay them back and all this stuff because like you shouldn't 1252 00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:12,020 take out student loans, but then also what are the other options? 1253 00:59:12,020 --> 00:59:15,620 So I think that, yeah, I think it's hard. 1254 00:59:15,940 --> 00:59:18,540 So I think there's like I said, there's there. 1255 00:59:18,940 --> 00:59:22,540 That's not a spicy take, though, Tim, out of your real spicy takes. 1256 00:59:22,540 --> 00:59:24,540 What is your spicy take you want to take back? 1257 00:59:25,340 --> 00:59:27,860 If whether it be technology, something that was like. 1258 00:59:28,540 --> 00:59:31,540 I also I like I think I popped off at Amazon's 1259 00:59:31,540 --> 00:59:33,860 or Microsoft's security one time, something like that. 1260 00:59:33,860 --> 00:59:35,660 Oh, well, that's easy. I mean, that's not even spicy. 1261 00:59:35,660 --> 00:59:40,340 Well, it was it was just some spiciness is coming up. 1262 00:59:40,340 --> 00:59:43,220 But hold on. And I will. 1263 00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:46,460 But but here's the thing, though, like and and I'll never guess 1264 00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:49,500 because it was Ian Coldwater who called me out and said, like, 1265 00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:51,860 look, there are people that work on stuff just like just like you are 1266 00:59:51,860 --> 00:59:53,860 just like the rest of us doing the best they can. 1267 00:59:53,860 --> 00:59:57,380 Then I always find out blah, you know, and I was like, you know, 1268 00:59:57,460 --> 01:00:01,060 first of all, like there's a lot of things I can tolerate and say in the role. 1269 01:00:01,060 --> 01:00:05,820 But I it I would rather you cut off my arm than know 1270 01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:08,180 that Ian Coldwater was disappointed in something that I did. 1271 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:10,300 You know, I'm saying, like that hurts. 1272 01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:11,700 They are that hurts. 1273 01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:14,900 Look, top tier human like they are only they are. 1274 01:00:15,340 --> 01:00:18,420 When you meet them, that's like they are one of the most 1275 01:00:18,620 --> 01:00:21,020 know, they are absolutely people. 1276 01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:24,860 But when you meet them in real life, they are the nicest, most humble. 1277 01:00:25,220 --> 01:00:26,260 Here's the thing. 1278 01:00:26,260 --> 01:00:31,460 You can never go wrong by asking yourself, what would Ian Coldwater do? 1279 01:00:32,060 --> 01:00:35,340 I think if they were mad at me, I would like I would probably cry. 1280 01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:38,860 Oh, no, I did. I was I was more upset if they were mad. 1281 01:00:38,860 --> 01:00:44,540 I was I was I was sobbing because like I actually care about 1282 01:00:44,660 --> 01:00:47,580 so like because they are worthy because when you did 1283 01:00:47,780 --> 01:00:51,020 when you disappoint when you disappoint someone who's important to you, 1284 01:00:51,060 --> 01:00:53,940 right, like it hurts like I told them big softy, right? 1285 01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:58,540 So yeah, those those ones that like like I regret and not because of like 1286 01:00:58,660 --> 01:01:00,420 but because because they were right. 1287 01:01:00,420 --> 01:01:02,500 They're absolutely right. I had not given thought about like. 1288 01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:04,020 But that isn't really good. 1289 01:01:04,020 --> 01:01:07,700 But I think that's a good lesson, though, because in tech, we are like we 1290 01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:11,420 I think part like this is the part I struggle with is the pissing contest 1291 01:01:11,420 --> 01:01:13,300 that you must get into as an engineer. 1292 01:01:13,300 --> 01:01:15,220 Like sometimes I'm real real good at it. 1293 01:01:15,220 --> 01:01:19,540 Like, you know, but sometimes it feels like you're arguing to argue 1294 01:01:19,540 --> 01:01:22,780 because you can write code many different ways and that doesn't necessarily 1295 01:01:22,780 --> 01:01:24,620 need to be like that argument. Yeah, yeah. 1296 01:01:24,620 --> 01:01:28,460 But I think it's so ingrained and the judgey and I would have done this better, 1297 01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:31,660 which there's a there's a part that that is valuable. 1298 01:01:31,660 --> 01:01:34,740 But sometimes it's you forget that they're humans building this and they're 1299 01:01:34,740 --> 01:01:37,180 trying their best. Yeah, yeah, it was a good lesson. 1300 01:01:37,540 --> 01:01:40,820 It was very much like a punching down kind of thing, which I was like, you know, 1301 01:01:40,820 --> 01:01:44,500 like sure now. And but that said, like, I had no problem punching up. 1302 01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:47,260 I will punch up all day long. I punch way above my weight class. 1303 01:01:47,420 --> 01:01:48,420 We know. 1304 01:01:51,060 --> 01:01:53,580 But but no, like it was one of those things that I was like, yeah, 1305 01:01:53,580 --> 01:01:55,300 no, you were absolutely right. And I'm sorry. 1306 01:01:55,300 --> 01:02:00,020 Like that, like I was I was despondent about that. 1307 01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:02,300 So I never want them to be mad at me ever. 1308 01:02:04,420 --> 01:02:08,260 Yeah, it was so. So yeah, that that that's probably the thing like that. 1309 01:02:08,260 --> 01:02:11,620 But that was such like a good like lesson, though, that everybody could learn 1310 01:02:11,620 --> 01:02:13,180 because we all make mistakes like that. 1311 01:02:13,180 --> 01:02:16,220 Like I think it's for it's easy to forget that there's humans behind it 1312 01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:18,660 because we just look at the companies, you know, yeah. 1313 01:02:18,660 --> 01:02:20,860 And like we're all out here. 1314 01:02:20,860 --> 01:02:25,740 But also by and large, if if if my feeling, if you hurt your feelings 1315 01:02:25,740 --> 01:02:27,740 were hurt by something I said, what is your part of all this? 1316 01:02:30,300 --> 01:02:32,620 You know, that's why I'm asking you, like, why did that hurt your feelings? 1317 01:02:34,220 --> 01:02:36,740 Therapy, this is just turned into therapy. 1318 01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:44,380 But, but, you know, so like, I do think there's there's there we we run into this thing 1319 01:02:44,380 --> 01:02:47,940 where it's like people just sometimes want to pop off to pop off, right? 1320 01:02:47,940 --> 01:02:51,740 So you want to like shitpost to shitpost and and that, you know, 1321 01:02:51,740 --> 01:02:53,860 that had a good run for a while, right? 1322 01:02:54,940 --> 01:02:56,980 But it's not really even now. 1323 01:02:56,980 --> 01:02:59,660 Like I'll say something I'll pop off a little bit. 1324 01:02:59,660 --> 01:03:02,700 But I pop off at groups of people. 1325 01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:03,940 I pop off at movements. 1326 01:03:03,940 --> 01:03:08,700 I pop off mostly at fascists, you know, tap lists and like that. 1327 01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:11,860 But but not a whole tech shitpost. 1328 01:03:12,100 --> 01:03:16,780 Like I almost missed when the people used to argue about if JavaScript was good or not. 1329 01:03:16,780 --> 01:03:19,540 Like not because I really want to hear that argument again. 1330 01:03:19,540 --> 01:03:24,700 But I think it was like just when everything wasn't so sad. 1331 01:03:26,820 --> 01:03:31,620 Well, you know, the thing is that was that the the the relevance of this framework 1332 01:03:32,060 --> 01:03:36,940 has become a lot less because of AI and we are now you don't even get to nerd 1333 01:03:36,940 --> 01:03:38,820 argue about the little things anymore. 1334 01:03:38,820 --> 01:03:39,500 You know what I mean? 1335 01:03:39,500 --> 01:03:43,140 Like there's no argument about the craft or like the actual like 1336 01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:47,300 non offensive horrible things like everything is just I don't know. 1337 01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:48,780 But you know what, though? 1338 01:03:48,780 --> 01:03:52,820 I think what becomes more important because I've always been I've always said 1339 01:03:52,820 --> 01:03:56,060 for a long time that the tech itself is is is inconsequential. 1340 01:03:56,460 --> 01:03:58,740 It's all a tool. It's it's it's meaningless, right? 1341 01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:01,420 It is it is a means to an end, right? 1342 01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:05,220 And so this is now very well illustrated 1343 01:04:05,220 --> 01:04:10,340 because of the fact that I can can do a lot of some of that low level work, right? 1344 01:04:10,660 --> 01:04:13,460 You know, syntax or whatever that all these people would argue about. 1345 01:04:13,460 --> 01:04:15,420 Like it doesn't matter, right? 1346 01:04:15,420 --> 01:04:16,060 What is the problem? 1347 01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:18,460 It's like only being able to paint in one color now. 1348 01:04:18,580 --> 01:04:19,260 You know what I mean? 1349 01:04:19,260 --> 01:04:24,620 Like the loss of getting to figure out like how you get to do things 1350 01:04:24,620 --> 01:04:27,420 and what's even beyond that isn't beyond that, right? 1351 01:04:27,420 --> 01:04:30,780 Because because it's like the thing that we should have been talking about all 1352 01:04:30,780 --> 01:04:34,540 along is the thing we're talking is the thing we should be talking about now. 1353 01:04:34,540 --> 01:04:35,740 It's like, what are the people problems? 1354 01:04:35,740 --> 01:04:37,140 What are the things we're trying to solve? 1355 01:04:37,140 --> 01:04:42,980 How does the technology, whatever it is, enable you to to do what? 1356 01:04:43,300 --> 01:04:46,260 What is the people and human problem we're trying to solve, right? 1357 01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:52,140 And so like we're we went so long 1358 01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:56,860 discussing the minutiae of what framework is better than this framework. 1359 01:04:57,860 --> 01:05:03,940 Then, you know, all these dumb little arguments, we have distro wars. 1360 01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:07,820 It's like that, you know, all the all the little all the little, 1361 01:05:07,980 --> 01:05:10,660 you know, religious, you know, cultist behaviors. 1362 01:05:10,660 --> 01:05:11,980 It really was religion. 1363 01:05:11,980 --> 01:05:14,500 It really was. 1364 01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:16,780 And then. 1365 01:05:16,780 --> 01:05:20,500 But but but we should have been talking about people all along. 1366 01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:21,180 We should have been talking. 1367 01:05:21,180 --> 01:05:24,380 We should we should have been like, are we ever going to go back 1368 01:05:24,380 --> 01:05:28,700 to solving actual real problems because it feels like we're solving 1369 01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:31,620 like made up problems that nobody asked for right now. 1370 01:05:31,620 --> 01:05:33,060 And it's so sad. 1371 01:05:33,060 --> 01:05:37,140 Like, I feel like we're not like we we're is it because of the lack 1372 01:05:37,140 --> 01:05:39,740 of like zero interest rates or like, what is it? 1373 01:05:39,740 --> 01:05:42,780 No, I feel like we are just it's it's the same thing. 1374 01:05:42,780 --> 01:05:44,780 It's a it's a lack of innovation. 1375 01:05:44,780 --> 01:05:46,820 We don't innovate anymore. 1376 01:05:46,820 --> 01:05:49,220 It's the same thing like like the same thing in Hollywood movies. 1377 01:05:49,220 --> 01:05:52,660 Like, you know, you look at like some big blockbusters, its sequels, its remakes. 1378 01:05:52,660 --> 01:05:53,620 It's like rehashed. 1379 01:05:53,660 --> 01:05:57,260 It's really hard to get passionate about like fake made up problems. 1380 01:05:57,260 --> 01:06:00,420 You know, it was really part really hard to get passionate about doing 1381 01:06:00,420 --> 01:06:03,620 the same thing a different way. 1382 01:06:03,620 --> 01:06:07,620 You know, and a lot of is doing the same thing different ways. 1383 01:06:07,620 --> 01:06:13,380 But this is like and because we don't but we don't understand the people enough. 1384 01:06:13,380 --> 01:06:17,740 We also don't understand enough context behind the people are right. 1385 01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:22,180 Because even I think and I think this a lot of people goes back to what I said 1386 01:06:22,180 --> 01:06:24,660 before a lot of people they're just I'm just a software engineer. 1387 01:06:24,660 --> 01:06:26,380 Like I said, what do you do? 1388 01:06:26,380 --> 01:06:27,500 Right? What did you ask? 1389 01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:29,540 What did I tell you when you asked me what I do? 1390 01:06:33,580 --> 01:06:36,540 You told me about you just to I do Brazilian jiu-jitsu. 1391 01:06:36,700 --> 01:06:40,780 That's the way like if I ask you what you do and you tell me what you get paid for, 1392 01:06:41,140 --> 01:06:43,300 like who are you? Right? 1393 01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:46,100 I'm a software engineer. Now, that's your job. Who are you? 1394 01:06:47,100 --> 01:06:53,220 You know, and once and until we have a full scope of who people are, 1395 01:06:53,220 --> 01:06:54,740 we don't know how to talk to them. 1396 01:06:54,740 --> 01:06:55,820 We're just going to talk about tech. 1397 01:06:55,820 --> 01:06:57,780 People don't even know how to talk about themselves. 1398 01:06:57,780 --> 01:07:01,340 I don't know if people know how to talk to each other anymore in general. 1399 01:07:01,340 --> 01:07:03,580 And I don't know if they like want like at some point 1400 01:07:03,580 --> 01:07:06,020 it our AIs are just going to be talking to each other. 1401 01:07:06,260 --> 01:07:09,460 Well, that's why that's why I don't that's what I don't have like 1402 01:07:10,100 --> 01:07:14,700 conference badges up here. That's why I don't have, you know, all your badges are gold. 1403 01:07:14,700 --> 01:07:16,500 I mean, you have a better badge. 1404 01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:23,180 You're just like, I don't put the plastic up because I got you don't have any space. 1405 01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:24,500 Like, be real. 1406 01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:26,020 But but that's what I'm saying. 1407 01:07:26,020 --> 01:07:30,060 Like, like I make it very obvious. 1408 01:07:30,660 --> 01:07:35,540 But I think contrast, though, when you're a woman in a male dominated field, 1409 01:07:35,540 --> 01:07:40,300 though, I'm really proud of what I've done in this field. 1410 01:07:40,340 --> 01:07:42,940 But that's not my entire personality. 1411 01:07:42,940 --> 01:07:44,220 And you should be. You know what I mean? 1412 01:07:44,220 --> 01:07:46,300 So I do think that you can do both. 1413 01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:48,780 But I don't not that I know the right way to do both. 1414 01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:50,700 But I think one of the points 1415 01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:53,500 since we get out here is you are what you measure, right? 1416 01:07:53,500 --> 01:07:57,420 The age old thing of you are what you measure in a company and in technology 1417 01:07:57,420 --> 01:07:59,460 and whatever, but also as individuals. 1418 01:07:59,460 --> 01:08:01,660 What do you measure about yourself? 1419 01:08:01,660 --> 01:08:04,140 I'm really proud that I'm a good friend and a good mom. 1420 01:08:04,660 --> 01:08:10,220 Yeah. But but to but to that end, like, like if I I'm not going to put up 1421 01:08:11,100 --> 01:08:13,540 a bunch of nerd shit back there to give me nerd cred. 1422 01:08:14,460 --> 01:08:16,740 I'll hide my you know what I'm saying? 1423 01:08:16,740 --> 01:08:18,900 Like, like on a bash, really love it. 1424 01:08:19,180 --> 01:08:22,140 Like, like if you want to if you want to talk to me about nerd shit, 1425 01:08:22,140 --> 01:08:23,300 we'll talk about nerd shit. 1426 01:08:23,300 --> 01:08:25,860 But I'm going to be like, is this really what you want to talk about? 1427 01:08:27,860 --> 01:08:30,980 You know, and because because it's not important. 1428 01:08:32,060 --> 01:08:33,100 It is not important. 1429 01:08:33,100 --> 01:08:35,740 The people, the problems we're trying to solve, 1430 01:08:35,740 --> 01:08:38,260 the differences we're trying to make are what's important. 1431 01:08:38,700 --> 01:08:42,260 If you want to talk to me about how I did this demo that say say five 1432 01:08:42,260 --> 01:08:46,340 seconds off of this or my build time runs, you know, two percent faster. 1433 01:08:46,380 --> 01:08:49,220 I don't care. I promise you a question. 1434 01:08:49,220 --> 01:08:54,300 What how do we get back to what how do we get in the capitalistic society 1435 01:08:54,300 --> 01:08:57,860 we live in and in the new age of technology? 1436 01:08:57,860 --> 01:09:01,180 How do we get back to solving problems that do matter that are important? 1437 01:09:01,540 --> 01:09:03,620 Well, the first thing you have to do is start talking to people about 1438 01:09:03,620 --> 01:09:10,460 PNF stuff is first person is also a great like going and being around people 1439 01:09:10,460 --> 01:09:16,260 in physical space to be able to talk and not it's not a transaction. 1440 01:09:16,260 --> 01:09:19,580 It's not a meeting. It's not a social media post. It's not a like. 1441 01:09:19,580 --> 01:09:21,540 It's why I love conferences. 1442 01:09:21,540 --> 01:09:22,900 Well, that's the thing, right? 1443 01:09:22,900 --> 01:09:27,980 The thing of the the important part of conferences, never the talks. 1444 01:09:28,300 --> 01:09:29,700 It's the hallway track. 1445 01:09:29,700 --> 01:09:31,820 And I wonder if we're going to lose that, though, 1446 01:09:31,820 --> 01:09:35,460 because people are funding like absolutely conferences. 1447 01:09:35,660 --> 01:09:38,140 Absolutely. I kind of wonder if like, 1448 01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:41,060 so I think that we're going to lose a lot on Stack Overflow 1449 01:09:41,060 --> 01:09:43,500 because the breadcrumbs were not leaving for others, right? 1450 01:09:43,860 --> 01:09:48,780 But I also think that people look at conferences as like a I don't. 1451 01:09:48,780 --> 01:09:50,820 The only people don't understand. 1452 01:09:50,820 --> 01:09:53,300 Obviously, the only people going to Congress is not by larger salespeople. 1453 01:09:53,980 --> 01:09:57,140 But like, yeah, but it's weird, though, because it's like, 1454 01:09:57,180 --> 01:10:00,900 I think with the lack of Devereal that we have and the fact that companies 1455 01:10:00,940 --> 01:10:03,140 don't see the value in going to conferences, 1456 01:10:03,140 --> 01:10:06,180 I wonder how much they're going to lose, but not know they're losing. 1457 01:10:06,820 --> 01:10:08,820 You know what you know what will end up happening, though, 1458 01:10:09,340 --> 01:10:12,420 is that conferences will start to go away like the ones we see. 1459 01:10:12,420 --> 01:10:15,300 Because because salespeople talking to the salespeople are going to 1460 01:10:15,300 --> 01:10:18,220 start to be like, and you know what, good, let's go back to meet up. 1461 01:10:18,220 --> 01:10:20,340 That you run away from half the time. 1462 01:10:20,340 --> 01:10:22,260 Like, let's go back to meet up. 1463 01:10:22,260 --> 01:10:25,260 Let's go back to more community focused stuff like salespeople don't want to go on that stuff. 1464 01:10:25,460 --> 01:10:29,100 The smaller local communities is going to be a lot more important. 1465 01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:32,620 My my New Year's resolution for myself, which I need to get back to, 1466 01:10:32,940 --> 01:10:35,740 was to meet all of my neighbors on my street. 1467 01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:39,220 I literally have lived here for 15 years and I don't know all of them. 1468 01:10:39,700 --> 01:10:42,500 And I was like, I should I should know this community 1469 01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:45,380 because this is the community I picked and I've lived here for 15 years 1470 01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:51,260 and extending that out to my social environment of work or people with like interests. 1471 01:10:51,260 --> 01:10:52,900 Right. Like I have a hockey team now. 1472 01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:56,500 I've learned a lot more of the people at hockey where I'm like, cool, 1473 01:10:56,500 --> 01:10:58,460 we're on a team, but I also learn people on other teams. 1474 01:10:58,580 --> 01:11:01,420 And I play other nights and knowing those pockets of communities 1475 01:11:01,660 --> 01:11:05,140 is super important to go meet them in person, spend my time 1476 01:11:05,380 --> 01:11:09,900 and show up and talk to them as people that all have problems and all have interests. 1477 01:11:09,900 --> 01:11:11,380 And some of it matters, some of it doesn't. 1478 01:11:11,380 --> 01:11:14,380 But it doesn't, you know, we can we can connect and we can be humans together. 1479 01:11:14,740 --> 01:11:20,100 We we need to do community building, right? 1480 01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:22,980 Actual community building, not, you know, I'm saying, 1481 01:11:22,980 --> 01:11:25,940 not like team building within our orgs, but I mean, like community building, 1482 01:11:25,940 --> 01:11:29,780 like how do we talk to people who do all this same thing, right? 1483 01:11:30,020 --> 01:11:32,380 To get to know them as part of building a community 1484 01:11:32,620 --> 01:11:35,300 and communities, not just all the people that do the thing, right? 1485 01:11:35,980 --> 01:11:38,940 Communities, people who have things in common, 1486 01:11:38,940 --> 01:11:42,260 who can work together towards a common goal, right? 1487 01:11:43,340 --> 01:11:46,140 And then if you can't figure out how to work with somebody, 1488 01:11:46,140 --> 01:11:48,900 you can't figure out what the common goal is, you don't have a community. 1489 01:11:49,300 --> 01:11:49,740 You know what I'm saying? 1490 01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:52,220 You just got people that are stuck in a place together. 1491 01:11:52,980 --> 01:11:56,860 Yeah. Tim, where can people find you online? 1492 01:11:57,820 --> 01:12:02,260 Oh, man, so you can find me on the blue sky at Elchefe.me. 1493 01:12:03,300 --> 01:12:08,460 I have a blog kind of like again, every time I say it's like, I need to update it. 1494 01:12:08,460 --> 01:12:12,220 I still, yeah, I need to update it at Tim dash banks.ghost.io. 1495 01:12:13,580 --> 01:12:18,660 Aside from that, you know, if you want to holler at my Instagram, it's at Elchefe.com. 1496 01:12:19,820 --> 01:12:21,220 But yeah, that's that's where you can find me. 1497 01:12:22,660 --> 01:12:24,460 I just started a ghost, too. 1498 01:12:24,460 --> 01:12:26,060 You signed up. Good job. 1499 01:12:26,060 --> 01:12:28,700 Proud to be proud of me. Yeah, it's good. 1500 01:12:28,700 --> 01:12:30,100 That is that is step number one. 1501 01:12:30,100 --> 01:12:32,220 You're good. 1502 01:12:32,220 --> 01:12:34,740 Tim, as always, thank you so much for coming on. 1503 01:12:34,740 --> 01:12:36,700 You I like I like this. 1504 01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:37,820 I like this. Definitely. 1505 01:12:37,820 --> 01:12:38,620 I want to do it again. 1506 01:12:38,620 --> 01:12:40,540 Listen, we got to do an after dark one. 1507 01:12:40,540 --> 01:12:41,460 I really think we should. 1508 01:12:41,460 --> 01:12:44,380 It would be fun. We just need to like, you know, needs to be a live stream. 1509 01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:50,540 All right. Thank you, everyone, for listening and we will talk to get soon. 1510 01:12:51,060 --> 01:12:53,660 Keep those community buildings strong and be kind to each other. 1511 01:12:53,660 --> 01:12:54,860 Right? Yes. 1512 01:12:58,780 --> 01:13:01,780 Thank you for listening to this episode of Fork Around and Find Out. 1513 01:13:02,060 --> 01:13:05,500 If you like this show, please consider sharing it with a friend, a co-worker, 1514 01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:07,460 a family member or even an enemy. 1515 01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:12,140 However, we get the word out about this show helps it to become sustainable for the long term. 1516 01:13:12,300 --> 01:13:17,900 If you want to sponsor this show, please go to fafo.fm slash sponsor 1517 01:13:17,980 --> 01:13:21,660 and reach out to us there about what you're interested in sponsoring and how we can help. 1518 01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:26,620 We hope your system stay available and your pagers stay quiet. 1519 01:13:26,620 --> 01:13:27,820 We'll see you again next time.