1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:02,210 Welcome to Fork Around and find out. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,740 I'm your host Justin Garrison. 3 00:00:03,740 --> 00:00:05,390 And with me as always is Autumn Nash. 4 00:00:05,420 --> 00:00:07,100 And today on the show we are importing 5 00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:09,830 some class with Java Champion Angie Jones. 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,550 I actually like that one. 7 00:00:13,850 --> 00:00:14,089 Yes. 8 00:00:14,810 --> 00:00:15,920 One of the jokes landed. 9 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:16,160 Sweet. 10 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,360 I'm so proud of you. 11 00:00:19,460 --> 00:00:21,560 Also, like y'all, Angie is the goat. 12 00:00:21,860 --> 00:00:22,280 Okay? 13 00:00:22,580 --> 00:00:27,439 Like this is like meeting your like superhero in real life. 14 00:00:27,439 --> 00:00:32,330 Like Angie is the reason why like I wake up and still put 15 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:34,730 up a tech every day and hope to be her when I grow up. 16 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:36,199 Like. 17 00:00:37,685 --> 00:00:42,215 Angie, you're currently the VP of DeVere at Block and you've, you're an 18 00:00:42,215 --> 00:00:46,235 author, you're a global speaker, you do a lot of stuff in the industry. 19 00:00:46,265 --> 00:00:46,324 A 20 00:00:46,324 --> 00:00:52,505 J Java champion Amazing, amazing glasses game like all the time. 21 00:00:53,505 --> 00:00:53,865 Yes. 22 00:00:53,865 --> 00:00:55,070 Thank you for having me. 23 00:00:56,865 --> 00:00:59,714 Tell us a little about what you are focusing on at Block. 24 00:00:59,714 --> 00:01:03,735 What is it that, I mean, block is is generally known as as kind of 25 00:01:03,735 --> 00:01:07,035 finance company, but like you're doing very specific things there. 26 00:01:08,115 --> 00:01:10,485 Um, I'm doing a lot of things there. 27 00:01:10,485 --> 00:01:16,425 Y'all don't see everything I'm doing, but, uh, yeah, I'm a VP of Derel 28 00:01:16,455 --> 00:01:22,755 across all of blocks, so that includes our products like Square and Cash App. 29 00:01:23,145 --> 00:01:26,955 Um, it also includes our open source office. 30 00:01:26,955 --> 00:01:33,914 So we have, uh, quite a few open source offerings that are pretty 31 00:01:33,914 --> 00:01:39,015 popular and we've just released, uh, an AI agent actually called Goose. 32 00:01:39,315 --> 00:01:43,425 And so I'm actually just like naturally very excited about Goose. 33 00:01:43,664 --> 00:01:46,035 And so that's probably a lot of what you see. 34 00:01:46,335 --> 00:01:48,014 And because it's new, I'm, uh. 35 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,060 Kind of, you know, jumping in the ring 36 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:52,710 and playing with it and learning about it. 37 00:01:52,710 --> 00:01:56,400 And just like everybody else, I need to learn ai, uh, and how to 38 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,630 utilize it in my, in my work, just like, uh, the rest of the industry. 39 00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:02,400 So yeah, 40 00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:06,600 immediately when I hear Goose, I think of the Untitled Goose game. 41 00:02:06,690 --> 00:02:07,679 If you ever played that. 42 00:02:07,679 --> 00:02:10,320 It's like a puzzle sort of game, but a lot of. 43 00:02:11,115 --> 00:02:13,425 People that like to do maybe penetration testing. 44 00:02:13,425 --> 00:02:15,375 It's kinda like a think outside the box. 45 00:02:15,375 --> 00:02:17,205 Like, how are you gonna solve this problem of 46 00:02:17,205 --> 00:02:19,095 like, oh, I see a gate there, I need to get a key. 47 00:02:19,425 --> 00:02:23,865 How would I get another way to get into this, uh, area, whatever it is. 48 00:02:23,865 --> 00:02:25,365 And so it's, it's kind of a puzzle game, but it's 49 00:02:25,365 --> 00:02:29,595 this goose that you play as that is, is kind of bad. 50 00:02:29,655 --> 00:02:32,205 It's just like, it's, it is like you, you cause a bunch of trouble. 51 00:02:32,205 --> 00:02:36,375 You will turn on sprinklers or chase, uh, animal or farmer, all sorts of stuff. 52 00:02:36,645 --> 00:02:38,265 That's the first thing I thought of, but I'm assuming. 53 00:02:39,465 --> 00:02:43,215 This, this AI agent's, uh, goose is a little different than that. 54 00:02:43,215 --> 00:02:44,655 What is it, what is it designed to do? 55 00:02:45,675 --> 00:02:47,865 So, it's an interesting story. 56 00:02:47,925 --> 00:02:55,935 Um, we actually built, uh, this AI agent internally for our engineers. 57 00:02:56,265 --> 00:02:59,865 Um, we did a functionalization last year 58 00:02:59,865 --> 00:03:04,365 where, uh, we were divided by business units. 59 00:03:04,365 --> 00:03:05,955 So we had cash app. 60 00:03:06,374 --> 00:03:08,325 They were basically their own company, 61 00:03:08,325 --> 00:03:11,144 square, their own company, that kind of thing. 62 00:03:11,144 --> 00:03:15,374 And everybody had their own culture and did things, uh, differently. 63 00:03:15,554 --> 00:03:19,304 And so with the Functionalization we brought, uh, you know, 64 00:03:19,304 --> 00:03:23,234 different functions together or similar functions together. 65 00:03:23,234 --> 00:03:26,445 And so all of engineering is now together, 66 00:03:26,445 --> 00:03:28,394 but everybody was doing something different. 67 00:03:28,394 --> 00:03:32,714 And um, and so there's a lot of work behind the scenes just to kind of. 68 00:03:34,455 --> 00:03:37,875 Streamline things, make things simpler for our, our developers. 69 00:03:37,875 --> 00:03:42,105 We take developer experience very seriously, even internally. 70 00:03:42,195 --> 00:03:45,105 And so this tool was built to help developers 71 00:03:45,165 --> 00:03:47,865 automate more, move faster and that sort of thing. 72 00:03:48,375 --> 00:03:54,015 Um, it did amazingly well internally, and so we decided to open source it. 73 00:03:54,075 --> 00:03:57,315 And so it was designed to be like a developer AI agent. 74 00:03:57,315 --> 00:03:58,545 So AI agents. 75 00:03:58,995 --> 00:04:06,225 If I may, are, uh, basically just like LLMs you use, like 76 00:04:06,225 --> 00:04:09,405 the chat bots you use today, like chat GPT for example. 77 00:04:09,525 --> 00:04:11,955 Well, AI agents will actually do the thing for 78 00:04:11,955 --> 00:04:14,295 you versus telling you how to do the thing. 79 00:04:14,715 --> 00:04:19,935 And so, um, we designed it for engineering tasks, but then. 80 00:04:20,610 --> 00:04:22,650 People internally at our company, were like, 81 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:25,170 wait, we wanna, we wanna move faster too. 82 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:26,970 We wanna be efficient too. 83 00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:30,840 And so we have, uh, stretched the limits of Goose 84 00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:34,800 and it's no longer considered just a developer agent. 85 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,240 But a general purpose one. 86 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,375 What differentiates Goose from what else is out on the market right now? 87 00:04:41,905 --> 00:04:42,325 One. 88 00:04:42,355 --> 00:04:46,855 Um, it's open source and two, it's local. 89 00:04:46,855 --> 00:04:49,495 So it's not in the cloud. 90 00:04:49,495 --> 00:04:51,205 It's not a website. 91 00:04:51,265 --> 00:04:55,045 You download it, you can utilize it as a desktop app 92 00:04:55,435 --> 00:05:00,510 or you can utilize it as ACL I. Um, and then also. 93 00:05:02,050 --> 00:05:05,020 It is a MCP client. 94 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,940 So for those of you who, uh, may be living under a rock, 95 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:13,330 MCP is the hottest thing out right now in the tech field. 96 00:05:13,330 --> 00:05:17,380 And so, um, that's basically a standard that 97 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:20,920 allows agents to talk to all sorts of data sources. 98 00:05:21,070 --> 00:05:28,420 And so, uh, there's probably close to 4,000 of these like MCP service. 99 00:05:29,095 --> 00:05:32,965 Servers, which represent like APIs, databases, like 100 00:05:32,965 --> 00:05:35,125 there's one for everything, your favorite tools. 101 00:05:35,545 --> 00:05:40,165 Um, and because Goose is an MCP client, meaning it adheres to the 102 00:05:40,165 --> 00:05:46,045 MCP protocol, it can connect to any and all of those MCP servers. 103 00:05:46,105 --> 00:05:49,195 So you have really exciting times like mixing and matching 104 00:05:49,195 --> 00:05:52,735 different things together to do some pretty cool stuff. 105 00:05:53,245 --> 00:05:54,025 Um, oh. 106 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:55,300 Go ahead. 107 00:05:55,450 --> 00:06:01,000 I was looking into MCP the other day, and from what I understand, it's 108 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,260 basically an open API spec based, essentially, it has a couple different fields. 109 00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:06,520 It's like, Hey, it's A-J-S-O-N field. 110 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,120 We can get this, this spec from this HDP interface. 111 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:16,300 And all of the MCP servers that I found that were something I wanted to do 112 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:21,099 locally that wasn't an external service were web wrappers around command lines. 113 00:06:21,460 --> 00:06:24,760 Like every single one of 'em was like, oh, exec out to FMP. 114 00:06:24,820 --> 00:06:26,080 Oh exec out to gi. 115 00:06:26,140 --> 00:06:27,340 Oh, exec out to something. 116 00:06:27,340 --> 00:06:31,420 I'm like, these are just AI man pages in a lot of ways. 117 00:06:31,420 --> 00:06:31,600 Right? 118 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,540 Like it's at the end of the day, how do you use the tool? 119 00:06:34,570 --> 00:06:36,100 Where do you get more information about it? 120 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:37,659 And then where do I exec the thing? 121 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,460 Is there something else I'm missing? 122 00:06:40,030 --> 00:06:41,800 Yeah, the part that you're missing. 123 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:44,110 'cause people look at just the server by 124 00:06:44,110 --> 00:06:46,450 itself and they're like, uh, I don't get it. 125 00:06:46,450 --> 00:06:47,770 I don't get, what's the magic? 126 00:06:48,010 --> 00:06:50,380 The magic is then that you can. 127 00:06:51,025 --> 00:06:56,425 Or these man pages can be used by any AI agent that 128 00:06:56,455 --> 00:07:01,015 also speaks that same or adheres to that protocol. 129 00:07:01,015 --> 00:07:01,465 Right? 130 00:07:01,675 --> 00:07:05,305 So what that means is like, and, and, and autumn, back 131 00:07:05,305 --> 00:07:07,735 to your question, um, I'm gonna tie all this together. 132 00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:11,155 Uh, back to your question about like how Goose differs. 133 00:07:11,425 --> 00:07:17,725 So a lot of the, the popular agents out right now are things like claw desktop. 134 00:07:18,220 --> 00:07:21,190 Uh, cursor Klein, you may have heard of these. 135 00:07:21,370 --> 00:07:24,250 All of these are like IDE focused, right? 136 00:07:24,430 --> 00:07:27,670 So I talked about how we are desktop and CLI focused, but 137 00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:32,980 even more than that, we, we aren't married to any LLM. 138 00:07:32,980 --> 00:07:35,440 So you can bring whatever LLM you want. 139 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:42,310 You don't have to use, uh, you know, anthropics, LLM or, or open 140 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:45,700 eyes, you know, when they build these agents, it's locked into what. 141 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:47,050 What they're selling. 142 00:07:47,469 --> 00:07:50,110 Um, you can bring whatever LLM you want with 143 00:07:50,110 --> 00:07:52,270 you, but then you can bring these tools. 144 00:07:52,420 --> 00:07:55,480 So Justin, back to your point, like, oh, what's the magic in this? 145 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:55,900 Right? 146 00:07:56,110 --> 00:08:03,105 So for example, I plugged in, um, a, a Google 147 00:08:04,390 --> 00:08:07,600 calendar, MCP, and I plugged in an asana MCP. 148 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,530 I didn't have to do anything except say, I wanna use these things. 149 00:08:11,799 --> 00:08:13,510 Now I can do stuff. 150 00:08:13,510 --> 00:08:15,909 Think about it as the end user and not the Colbys. 151 00:08:16,570 --> 00:08:23,049 I can do stuff in natural language now and my AI agent can just execute. 152 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,610 So for example, I said, Hey Goose, can you look at my 153 00:08:27,610 --> 00:08:33,760 Asana board, find all of my tasks that, uh, are incomplete. 154 00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:37,179 And then I want you to look at my calendar as well. 155 00:08:37,179 --> 00:08:43,299 Find open slots, estimate the time and the task to see how long it'll take. 156 00:08:43,390 --> 00:08:46,480 And I want you to find places where I can actually do my work. 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:46,900 You know? 158 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,810 And I don't like a whole lot of context 159 00:08:49,810 --> 00:08:52,900 switching, so try to group things together, right? 160 00:08:52,990 --> 00:08:56,290 And so I said all of this in natural language and it's able to 161 00:08:56,290 --> 00:09:01,540 execute these things because of the simplicity of the MCP server. 162 00:09:01,540 --> 00:09:02,080 But yes. 163 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:05,230 I like that, that it's man pages for ai. 164 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,340 That's true. 165 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,750 If you're stuck just looking at the makeup of the MCP, uh, that's probably 166 00:09:10,750 --> 00:09:14,500 not that interesting, but what it unlocks for people, that's the magic. 167 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,930 I think two things that you said were important. 168 00:09:16,959 --> 00:09:20,470 One, the fact that you can do it locally and it's not in a cloud, 169 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,550 because I think that's one of the coolest parts about apple's, uh, apple 170 00:09:24,550 --> 00:09:28,360 intelligent chip is the fact that it does all of the processing locally. 171 00:09:28,390 --> 00:09:28,569 Turned 172 00:09:28,569 --> 00:09:29,290 all that off. 173 00:09:31,930 --> 00:09:32,560 All the Apple 174 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:33,910 intelligence just turned it off. 175 00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:35,079 I, it was such a panic. 176 00:09:35,589 --> 00:09:35,740 You 177 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:36,194 don't want it, you don't want it. 178 00:09:36,220 --> 00:09:36,550 Oh 179 00:09:36,550 --> 00:09:36,850 man. 180 00:09:36,850 --> 00:09:37,540 Every single thing. 181 00:09:37,540 --> 00:09:39,819 But I'm have these summaries of garbage I'm going to do. 182 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:44,530 If I am going to use ai, I feel better with the way that Apple set it up. 183 00:09:44,530 --> 00:09:44,740 Up. 184 00:09:44,740 --> 00:09:45,069 Right. 185 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,640 And also what you said with the whole, the fact that you can 186 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,750 switch back and forth, it was so cool to see all the MVPs at MVP 187 00:09:52,750 --> 00:09:56,410 summit and they used AI in ways that I would've never have thought 188 00:09:56,410 --> 00:10:00,189 of, but with the, like some people using T net and some people 189 00:10:00,189 --> 00:10:05,740 using like, you know, um, I don't know, Java or different like. 190 00:10:06,445 --> 00:10:07,975 Frameworks in different languages. 191 00:10:08,155 --> 00:10:13,314 Some, um, some of the models were way better at one language than the other. 192 00:10:13,375 --> 00:10:16,255 And I think that was one of the cool parts of copilot is that you 193 00:10:16,255 --> 00:10:19,735 can lift and shift your model in the way that they've really made it. 194 00:10:19,735 --> 00:10:20,095 Where 195 00:10:20,395 --> 00:10:21,595 we reusing that term. 196 00:10:21,595 --> 00:10:22,015 All right. 197 00:10:22,015 --> 00:10:24,475 The, the, it's like they were 198 00:10:24,895 --> 00:10:27,655 literally just switching back and forth and they knew like, 199 00:10:27,865 --> 00:10:32,125 Hey, when I have this question, it is better on Claude about da. 200 00:10:32,125 --> 00:10:32,280 I like that. 201 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:32,439 I 202 00:10:32,445 --> 00:10:32,695 think that's. 203 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:33,530 Fire. 204 00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:37,910 Like I think that's fire because I use it a general purpose, right? 205 00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:39,620 So I use it for all sorts of tasks. 206 00:10:39,740 --> 00:10:42,590 Sometimes it's coding, sometimes it's more leadership 207 00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:44,420 type of things, sometimes, you know what I mean? 208 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,760 And so some of the models are exactly right. 209 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:50,840 I feel, I find that, uh, Claude is amazing as coding. 210 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,510 That's who I want code, that's who I want a cold with. 211 00:10:53,510 --> 00:10:55,460 My friend, when I went a brainstorm. 212 00:10:55,810 --> 00:10:56,050 Yeah. 213 00:10:56,050 --> 00:11:00,515 When I wanna brainstorm, I wanna, I wanna talk to GPTI like Exactly, exactly. 214 00:11:00,850 --> 00:11:01,780 I like how they think. 215 00:11:01,780 --> 00:11:02,860 I like the reasoning there. 216 00:11:02,860 --> 00:11:04,000 You know what, I, results were so 217 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,640 much better yesterday on Claude for this very 218 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,010 in depth framework that she's never used before. 219 00:11:09,310 --> 00:11:12,250 And I think that's kind of like, I like it when it helps me learn. 220 00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:15,340 Like I love asking it questions like about subjects that I 221 00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:19,120 don't know, and kind of using it like almost as like a, to 222 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,520 simulate what you do in class when you're talking to somebody. 223 00:11:21,945 --> 00:11:25,035 Or I like it to do the things that make that are boring, 224 00:11:25,035 --> 00:11:28,065 that make my brain just feel like it's, what is the word? 225 00:11:28,065 --> 00:11:28,905 Demand avoidant. 226 00:11:29,025 --> 00:11:29,590 You know what I mean? 227 00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:30,070 Mm-hmm. 228 00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:31,755 So that way I can do all the fun stuff. 229 00:11:31,755 --> 00:11:35,445 And I think like we're finally getting to a part where like just pretending 230 00:11:35,445 --> 00:11:38,415 like AI is gonna replace us and do everything is just ridiculous. 231 00:11:38,415 --> 00:11:41,055 But using AI to make you more efficient so you can do more 232 00:11:41,055 --> 00:11:44,505 of what you enjoy and to kind of make your life better. 233 00:11:44,595 --> 00:11:46,065 Those things, I'm so here for. 234 00:11:48,460 --> 00:11:49,300 Oh, one more thing. 235 00:11:49,420 --> 00:11:50,620 We talked about open source. 236 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:53,620 Can we just talk about how like fire of an open source contributor 237 00:11:53,620 --> 00:11:56,410 Miss Angie is Because like she doesn't just do dev reel. 238 00:11:56,410 --> 00:11:56,770 Okay. 239 00:11:56,770 --> 00:12:00,130 Like she's a speaker, a teacher, and she does like, like. 240 00:12:00,579 --> 00:12:02,290 People will try to talk stuff up to you on like 241 00:12:02,290 --> 00:12:04,480 Blue Sky and I'm like, have you seen her GitHub? 242 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,030 Like, like, go sit down. 243 00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:09,339 Like you are amazing. 244 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:10,630 Like what was, thank you. 245 00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:13,390 Tell us about like all of your open source contributions 246 00:12:13,390 --> 00:12:15,069 and just like, or it's anything cool you work. 247 00:12:15,069 --> 00:12:15,130 I'm 248 00:12:15,130 --> 00:12:16,150 actually, yeah. 249 00:12:16,209 --> 00:12:19,569 I'm actually a GitHub star, which is very cool. 250 00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:25,510 There's less than 100 of those in the world, so it's, uh, a huge honor. 251 00:12:26,050 --> 00:12:29,589 Um, yeah, a lot of the projects, uh, one is. 252 00:12:30,325 --> 00:12:31,225 Of course, goose. 253 00:12:31,225 --> 00:12:32,275 So that's open source. 254 00:12:32,275 --> 00:12:34,525 That's what I'm working on mostly these days. 255 00:12:34,825 --> 00:12:36,745 But these MCP servers too. 256 00:12:36,745 --> 00:12:40,675 So the cool thing about the MCP servers is that you 257 00:12:40,675 --> 00:12:43,375 don't have to be the vendor of the API to make 'em. 258 00:12:43,735 --> 00:12:45,775 And so you can make one for anything. 259 00:12:46,765 --> 00:12:49,375 Now I'm a automation girly, right? 260 00:12:49,555 --> 00:12:55,525 And so, uh, one of my, my tools that I've used forever was selenium, 261 00:12:55,885 --> 00:12:59,605 uh, to do like test automation, browser automation, that sort of thing. 262 00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:04,600 And, uh, my girl didn't have a MCP server out there, so I 263 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,020 had to, I had to, I had to do that for the culture, you know, 264 00:13:08,020 --> 00:13:12,760 and so I created a MCP server for Selenium, um, playwright 265 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,360 shortly thereafter, put theirs out and made a big splash. 266 00:13:16,390 --> 00:13:18,460 'cause that came from Microsoft. 267 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:19,450 And, you know, so it's like. 268 00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:20,920 Me against Microsoft. 269 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:21,970 Now I'm joking. 270 00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:22,810 I love Microsoft. 271 00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:28,510 Um, but, but yeah, like, uh, so those are the kind of projects that I work on. 272 00:13:28,510 --> 00:13:32,500 Usually tools that I use myself, I like to try to give back in 273 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:36,130 some way, even if it's not a cold contribution, if that could be, 274 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:40,270 uh, some sort of like community advocacy or anything like that. 275 00:13:40,275 --> 00:13:41,980 I'm, I'm, I'm down for all of that. 276 00:13:42,010 --> 00:13:43,780 Nothing's too big or small for me. 277 00:13:44,410 --> 00:13:48,490 I think that's really important because it can be such a daunting 278 00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:51,700 task to try to learn how to, where you contribute for open source. 279 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:52,725 And I think that's cool. 280 00:13:52,725 --> 00:13:53,020 I like to, I 281 00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:54,130 like to go to the docs. 282 00:13:54,130 --> 00:13:55,901 People need doc help all the time. 283 00:13:55,906 --> 00:13:56,560 Hundred percent time. 284 00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:57,010 Yes. 285 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:58,150 And people love that. 286 00:13:58,150 --> 00:14:00,760 Like if you're trying to contribute to a project and 287 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,680 they don't know you and you're trying to contribute 288 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,810 to their code base, everybody's kind of looking like. 289 00:14:04,975 --> 00:14:06,805 Like who, who this, you know? 290 00:14:06,865 --> 00:14:07,045 Yeah. 291 00:14:07,075 --> 00:14:11,485 Um, but docs, people are like, oh, yes, by all means, please. 292 00:14:11,485 --> 00:14:12,085 Thank you. 293 00:14:12,805 --> 00:14:13,405 You're afraid at that point. 294 00:14:13,705 --> 00:14:14,515 There's always something. 295 00:14:14,575 --> 00:14:14,785 There's 296 00:14:14,785 --> 00:14:17,995 always something that people forget when setting stuff up, and they've 297 00:14:17,995 --> 00:14:21,145 never, because they've used it so much before they release it, that if 298 00:14:21,145 --> 00:14:23,845 you set something up, there's always a good tidbit that you can add. 299 00:14:23,970 --> 00:14:24,030 Yeah, 300 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:27,720 always recommend start if you're gonna contribute to a new project, 301 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,500 especially in like a new community, start with docs because 302 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,560 you'll understand how the process of the project is, like how many 303 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:35,820 That's true. 304 00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:36,360 Checkoffs do 305 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:36,810 you need, right? 306 00:14:36,810 --> 00:14:37,980 Is this worth your time? 307 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:39,780 Like start with your effort really low. 308 00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,460 Just say, Hey, I fixed this in the docs. 309 00:14:41,845 --> 00:14:43,525 And if they say no, you're just like, okay, well 310 00:14:43,525 --> 00:14:44,845 maybe I don't want to contribute here anymore. 311 00:14:44,845 --> 00:14:46,555 But if they're like, oh, you know, can you add this? 312 00:14:46,585 --> 00:14:47,575 Here's some corrections, whatever. 313 00:14:47,605 --> 00:14:49,195 Oh, could you also do it in this other area? 314 00:14:49,465 --> 00:14:50,605 Oh, they need this help. 315 00:14:50,605 --> 00:14:51,175 They want it. 316 00:14:51,205 --> 00:14:51,445 You know? 317 00:14:51,445 --> 00:14:51,505 Yeah. 318 00:14:51,505 --> 00:14:52,525 And that sort of engagement's good. 319 00:14:52,675 --> 00:14:55,615 But also if you're contributing docs, please, please do not 320 00:14:55,765 --> 00:14:59,245 submit AI reviews of, like I've had, we've had poll requests and 321 00:14:59,245 --> 00:15:01,945 people like, I rewrote this doc with ai and I'm like, please, no. 322 00:15:02,005 --> 00:15:04,075 Like this is not an improvement for us. 323 00:15:04,075 --> 00:15:06,505 Like we want people to spend their time 'cause. 324 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,680 The, the limitation of open source is usually the maintainer time, right? 325 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,750 They, they just can't, you can't take all the inbound requests. 326 00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:14,670 You don't, can't do all the software, but all 327 00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:16,500 those reviews just take more and more time. 328 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,740 So if you are just throwing stuff out there to get your name, please don't. 329 00:15:20,425 --> 00:15:23,185 I don't know why people don't like use that as 330 00:15:23,185 --> 00:15:25,765 their first pass and then go and like look over it. 331 00:15:25,795 --> 00:15:28,105 'cause I'm like, would you trust, like we'd look over 332 00:15:28,105 --> 00:15:32,035 human stuff like make sure you code review your AI stuff. 333 00:15:33,115 --> 00:15:33,474 But yeah. 334 00:15:34,285 --> 00:15:36,025 Can you describe like what was your process 335 00:15:36,025 --> 00:15:38,665 for writing the MCP surfer there for. 336 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:40,870 Uh, not for, for Selenium F Seum. 337 00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:41,110 Yeah. 338 00:15:41,710 --> 00:15:42,100 Oh, look at you. 339 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:42,520 What, what, what did 340 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:42,700 you do? 341 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:43,750 Like, how do you local test that? 342 00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:45,880 How do you make sure that it's gonna work properly? 343 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:46,180 There's actually, 344 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:47,050 yeah, yeah, yeah. 345 00:15:47,050 --> 00:15:47,650 Okay. 346 00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:48,580 Good question. 347 00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:51,640 Oh, I can geek out about CP all day. 348 00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:52,990 Um, okay. 349 00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:59,950 So there's actually official SDKs and uh, type script. 350 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,330 Java, Kotlin, Python, rust, and Microsoft 351 00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:06,880 just released a C one like two weeks ago. 352 00:16:07,660 --> 00:16:08,985 Um, so you can pick up. 353 00:16:09,475 --> 00:16:12,475 The official SDK and everything's kind of in there 354 00:16:12,475 --> 00:16:15,385 already, so it's really straightforward to use. 355 00:16:15,385 --> 00:16:19,855 You basically just initialize a server and then you start adding tools to it. 356 00:16:19,855 --> 00:16:24,955 So, um, there's like a server tool and then, you know, just like you 357 00:16:24,955 --> 00:16:29,035 said, you kind of put the name, the description, and then like the, 358 00:16:29,035 --> 00:16:33,085 the body of the function of what does this do when this tool is called. 359 00:16:33,355 --> 00:16:35,845 And then there's a lot of community members, 360 00:16:35,875 --> 00:16:38,305 well not a lot, but a few community members who. 361 00:16:38,695 --> 00:16:44,035 Are simplifying that SDK even more by making what they're calling fast MCP. 362 00:16:44,335 --> 00:16:47,425 So as far as I know, there's one in Python and there's one in 363 00:16:47,425 --> 00:16:51,865 TypeScript, but with the fast MCP, it's supposed to be even simpler. 364 00:16:51,865 --> 00:16:56,454 But I didn't use Fast MCPI wanted to use like the og, SDK, you know, the og. 365 00:16:56,875 --> 00:16:58,105 It's been around for three months. 366 00:16:58,165 --> 00:16:58,225 Yeah. 367 00:16:58,780 --> 00:16:58,900 Yeah. 368 00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,825 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 369 00:16:59,975 --> 00:17:01,325 We move fast over here. 370 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:09,125 Just, um, but yeah, I, I used the, the OG type script, SDK, which is 371 00:17:09,125 --> 00:17:12,305 interesting 'cause I'm a Java girl, but as I was writing it, the Java one 372 00:17:12,305 --> 00:17:16,265 wasn't out yet, so I was like, all right, I guess I'll use type script. 373 00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:18,335 And, um, actually. 374 00:17:19,555 --> 00:17:23,875 I use Goose quite a bit on, uh, like, okay, what am I missing? 375 00:17:23,875 --> 00:17:25,675 What functions should I add? 376 00:17:25,825 --> 00:17:26,935 Is this cool? 377 00:17:26,935 --> 00:17:27,655 Is this not? 378 00:17:27,655 --> 00:17:30,895 And so, uh, it basically helped me in writing it. 379 00:17:31,105 --> 00:17:34,225 And then there's actually a MCP. 380 00:17:34,515 --> 00:17:35,115 Specter. 381 00:17:35,115 --> 00:17:38,985 That also comes from model context protocol, and that's how you test. 382 00:17:39,105 --> 00:17:43,185 So you can test this locally by just kind of hooking it up to this inspector, 383 00:17:43,335 --> 00:17:49,215 and it'll show all the tools that are available in that MCP server, and then you 384 00:17:49,215 --> 00:17:53,415 can try to execute them too and make sure everything works before you deploy it. 385 00:17:53,415 --> 00:17:56,535 So then once I made sure it works, commit that 386 00:17:56,535 --> 00:18:00,735 to GitHub, make a NPM package and good to go. 387 00:18:01,565 --> 00:18:03,155 Usually way better than Comcast. 388 00:18:05,645 --> 00:18:08,855 Angie, I know for a little while when you at least started at 389 00:18:08,855 --> 00:18:12,665 Block and and TBD, um, you were focusing a lot on identity. 390 00:18:13,415 --> 00:18:14,525 Where has that work kind of gone? 391 00:18:14,525 --> 00:18:16,985 What were you doing with that and how was that kind of playing out? 392 00:18:16,985 --> 00:18:21,305 Is that shifting into this sort of AI space or is that something that you're, 393 00:18:21,305 --> 00:18:23,675 you're kinda like, Hey, we have a standard and we want people to use it. 394 00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:26,750 Yeah, that was totally separate. 395 00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:31,220 So I lead Dere for all of block, and so that was one of the projects. 396 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,890 And so that one was, uh, yeah, digital identity and cross border money movement. 397 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:39,860 And I was under the, um, umbrella of TBD. 398 00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:43,040 That business unit has such, has since shut 399 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,580 down and we have donated those projects. 400 00:18:46,580 --> 00:18:48,830 All the open source work that we did, we've donated 401 00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:52,310 it to the, uh, decentralized Identity Foundation. 402 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:55,790 And so, uh, they're, they're maintaining those projects now. 403 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:57,860 There's a new foundation I didn't know about every day. 404 00:18:57,860 --> 00:18:58,340 Mm-hmm. 405 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,620 That's really good that you all donated. 406 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,370 Donated it all. 407 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:02,330 Yeah. 408 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:03,770 We don't want the work to die. 409 00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:06,890 Um, it, it was, it was good work, you know. 410 00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:08,210 Um. 411 00:19:09,125 --> 00:19:13,895 As companies reprioritize, you know, we just kind of needed to focus elsewhere. 412 00:19:13,895 --> 00:19:17,345 But yeah, there was a good momentum behind it and everything like 413 00:19:17,345 --> 00:19:20,435 that, so we didn't wanna just kill it and we wanna be good open source 414 00:19:20,435 --> 00:19:25,925 stewards and so, uh, donated it to make sure that it stays, stays alive. 415 00:19:26,225 --> 00:19:27,440 Is this the independent foundation? 416 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,365 I don't see any, like, it's not Linux Foundation it looks like. 417 00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:30,875 Right, right, right. 418 00:19:30,875 --> 00:19:31,895 Yeah, they're independent. 419 00:19:32,345 --> 00:19:32,585 Okay. 420 00:19:33,875 --> 00:19:36,995 Uh, that's an, I'm trying to see, I'm looking on their website, like what other. 421 00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:39,830 Projects or things they've done in the past, because I know 422 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:42,620 some foundations are, are different than others, right? 423 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:46,160 Like some of them are very focused on an industry, uh, and 424 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,710 then some of them are kind of where projects go to die, right? 425 00:19:48,715 --> 00:19:48,815 Mm-hmm. 426 00:19:48,895 --> 00:19:50,660 The Apache Foundation has a bunch of projects that 427 00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:53,630 are kind of like the geriatric home for open source. 428 00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:55,120 Dang, Justin. 429 00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:58,690 That's why people ask you if you have hot takes and webinars. 430 00:19:58,750 --> 00:20:00,040 This is exactly why 431 00:20:01,065 --> 00:20:04,120 I, I stole that from someone else, but I liked it because it was, it's, it's 432 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,510 true that there are a lot of foundations out there that are just like, Hey, we, 433 00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:11,290 we want this to exist in the world, but we ain't spending any more time on it. 434 00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:11,500 Right? 435 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:14,560 Like, someone else needs to maintain this for us going forward. 436 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,320 And, and kinda the community's gonna shift off at some points. 437 00:20:17,710 --> 00:20:18,220 Um. 438 00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:22,160 I, I don't, again, I don't know anything about the DIF foundation or 439 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,580 what the projects are, so I'm just kind of curious seeing, there's too 440 00:20:25,580 --> 00:20:28,310 many foundations, there's too many places that the software's gonna land 441 00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:31,190 and there's too much code that's not being maintained in all of them. 442 00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:34,550 And I kind of wonder how that also is gonna play out. 443 00:20:35,525 --> 00:20:38,585 Yeah, well, diff is, uh, has been a great partner. 444 00:20:38,585 --> 00:20:42,455 We worked with them a lot as we were developing things in, uh, the 445 00:20:42,455 --> 00:20:46,145 decentralized web node stuff that we developed actually was their spec. 446 00:20:46,415 --> 00:20:49,205 And so it felt like a good home. 447 00:20:49,205 --> 00:20:51,365 You know, they created the standard for it. 448 00:20:51,365 --> 00:20:53,630 They, uh, contribute to the code. 449 00:20:53,630 --> 00:20:56,435 They promoted very heavily while we were developing it. 450 00:20:56,435 --> 00:21:00,365 And so, you know, they, they were more than willing to, to accept. 451 00:21:00,365 --> 00:21:02,585 So your implementation was implementing their spec? 452 00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:03,725 Yes. 453 00:21:03,845 --> 00:21:04,085 Oh, cool. 454 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,560 Is it exciting being kind of the head of like Cash app and the 455 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,120 all the other different, um, kind of technologies that block has 456 00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:17,810 to get kind of like the variety of different aspects of Block? 457 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:19,730 Uh, yeah. 458 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:22,190 So Head of Devereux, let's correct that. 459 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:23,990 I wanna, anybody think I run all of cash out? 460 00:21:25,405 --> 00:21:25,695 Yeah. 461 00:21:26,135 --> 00:21:26,495 Yeah. 462 00:21:26,495 --> 00:21:31,595 Uh, but yeah, the, it is exciting because I'm tech girl, right? 463 00:21:31,595 --> 00:21:33,995 That's my, that's what I go by is like my 464 00:21:33,995 --> 00:21:36,905 username across the internet is tech girl. 465 00:21:37,265 --> 00:21:41,105 And I don't ever wanna box myself into like one specific tech. 466 00:21:41,105 --> 00:21:44,525 There's things that I go really deep on and that I feel I'm an expert in, like. 467 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,660 Java, for example, you know, things like that. 468 00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:52,460 But then, um, I also like to learn and dabble with all 469 00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:55,820 sorts of things and be pretty knowledgeable, at least 470 00:21:55,820 --> 00:21:59,600 at a surface level about most of the things, you know. 471 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:05,000 And so, yeah, this gives me a, a great opportunity to, one, explore 472 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,200 these different spaces, but two, look at like how you can connect them. 473 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,550 So one of the things about me is I'm an inventor, so I have like. 474 00:22:14,225 --> 00:22:15,635 20 something patents. 475 00:22:15,635 --> 00:22:15,935 Right? 476 00:22:15,935 --> 00:22:19,535 And so I love to kind of think of creative ways to 477 00:22:19,535 --> 00:22:23,555 utilize tech, to merge like things together that don't 478 00:22:23,555 --> 00:22:26,135 necessarily belong together and see like what happens. 479 00:22:26,885 --> 00:22:28,535 That's so cool that you have that many patents. 480 00:22:29,255 --> 00:22:29,585 Thank 481 00:22:29,585 --> 00:22:29,915 you. 482 00:22:30,275 --> 00:22:31,295 You are amazing. 483 00:22:31,385 --> 00:22:32,290 I wanna be like you when 484 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:32,770 I grow up. 485 00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:36,305 How did you become a Java champion? 486 00:22:37,205 --> 00:22:38,015 Oh my God. 487 00:22:38,285 --> 00:22:43,655 So I love Java in case anybody didn't know that. 488 00:22:43,925 --> 00:22:45,305 Like, I love Java. 489 00:22:45,305 --> 00:22:49,655 So I, I actually started, uh, coding in Java in college. 490 00:22:49,655 --> 00:22:52,235 I started with c plus plus actually. 491 00:22:52,595 --> 00:22:56,195 And then, um, I had a professor at Java, professor, 492 00:22:56,195 --> 00:22:59,765 like maybe my junior year, and he was a, a young. 493 00:23:00,860 --> 00:23:02,630 Uh, Java programmer. 494 00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:04,850 I think this might have been his first teaching gig, but 495 00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:08,450 he was just so on fire about Java and that just became 496 00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:11,540 contagious and the way he taught it just made it very. 497 00:23:11,870 --> 00:23:12,770 Enjoyable. 498 00:23:12,770 --> 00:23:18,140 And so, um, he, he was so nice that after like the first semester he 499 00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:22,100 did, maybe two semesters, he did a, a bootcamp over the summer so you 500 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:26,090 could go home if you wanted to or you could stay back for the summer. 501 00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:28,795 And he did a, a. Free bootcamp for students 502 00:23:28,855 --> 00:23:31,195 who wanted to become certified in Java. 503 00:23:31,375 --> 00:23:34,885 And so I stayed for the bootcamp and, and we went hard and we 504 00:23:34,885 --> 00:23:38,365 learned the ins and outs of the language and, and all of this stuff. 505 00:23:38,365 --> 00:23:41,785 And, uh, we, I took the test and I became certified 506 00:23:41,785 --> 00:23:44,395 Java programmer before I even graduated college. 507 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,940 Which was very marketable to get my first job. 508 00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:51,600 Um, because back then Java was the hot new thing. 509 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,740 That was the hot new language. 510 00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:55,290 So the industry folks didn't really know Java. 511 00:23:55,290 --> 00:23:57,120 This was something he was just trying to pick up. 512 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,590 And here you got like this girl coming 513 00:23:58,590 --> 00:24:01,470 outta school, what, what a certification is. 514 00:24:01,470 --> 00:24:02,730 So that, that was very, um. 515 00:24:03,770 --> 00:24:05,540 Very beneficial for me. 516 00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:10,130 So anyway, I did Java for pretty much all of my career, 517 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:16,070 um, and not just did it, but also shared the things that 518 00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:20,090 I was doing with, by like teaching courses and workshops. 519 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,200 Uh, I founded Test Automation University, which is absolutely free, 520 00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:28,790 and it's uh, just courses that are available that teach people. 521 00:24:29,375 --> 00:24:32,405 Not just Java programming, but different programming skills. 522 00:24:32,405 --> 00:24:35,195 How to automate, how to test, how to do all of this stuff. 523 00:24:35,525 --> 00:24:39,665 Um, and so with all of those contributions, um, 524 00:24:40,025 --> 00:24:43,505 you are recognized in the, the Java community. 525 00:24:43,505 --> 00:24:46,115 And it's in a, it's a, it's a distinguishment 526 00:24:46,115 --> 00:24:48,455 that, you know, has to be bestowed upon you. 527 00:24:48,455 --> 00:24:50,705 You don't get to apply or anything like 528 00:24:50,705 --> 00:24:52,730 that, but, and it has to, to be voted on. 529 00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:57,515 It has to be voted on, and it has to be, um. 530 00:24:57,845 --> 00:25:01,025 You have to be recommended by someone who's already a Java champion. 531 00:25:01,175 --> 00:25:04,325 At the time, there were less than 300 of those in the world, 532 00:25:04,475 --> 00:25:08,075 and so it is a very small community of people, but they 533 00:25:08,075 --> 00:25:11,465 have to know you in your work to be able to put you up. 534 00:25:11,465 --> 00:25:13,715 And then, yes, the rest of the Java champions. 535 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,580 Would vote like, do I know this person is there? 536 00:25:16,730 --> 00:25:19,010 Is their work actually impactful? 537 00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:21,620 Um, and fortunately everybody say yes. 538 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:24,410 And so, uh, that's how I became a Java champion. 539 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,150 It is a very hard clip to get into. 540 00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:29,570 Are you still the only black women woman Java champion ever? 541 00:25:30,485 --> 00:25:30,875 Yes. 542 00:25:32,345 --> 00:25:33,485 When you gonna join me? 543 00:25:33,485 --> 00:25:34,025 Autumn? 544 00:25:34,295 --> 00:25:40,025 Look, I'm trying, but I just like, I thought that way you'd, when I 545 00:25:40,025 --> 00:25:43,445 was in college, everybody that was an engineer did not look like me. 546 00:25:43,955 --> 00:25:47,255 Nobody in the, like most women were in like front end. 547 00:25:47,315 --> 00:25:49,895 And then here comes Angie Jones, the only 548 00:25:49,895 --> 00:25:52,445 black female Java champion and I love Java. 549 00:25:52,475 --> 00:25:53,675 And you were just like. 550 00:25:54,245 --> 00:25:55,775 The biggest star ever. 551 00:25:55,775 --> 00:25:58,175 Like I was just like, it, she has cool glasses and I wanna be 552 00:25:58,175 --> 00:26:02,375 just like, like you were like the first time I could ever like 553 00:26:02,375 --> 00:26:06,155 see myself, but also as like a backend programmer and everything. 554 00:26:06,155 --> 00:26:08,975 Like, I just thought you were the coolest thing since slice bread. 555 00:26:09,005 --> 00:26:09,545 Like 556 00:26:09,550 --> 00:26:11,645 I, I so appreciate that. 557 00:26:11,675 --> 00:26:13,925 Um, and I'll tell you why I appreciate it. 558 00:26:13,985 --> 00:26:18,125 One, it's just really sweet, but I also appreciate it because, 559 00:26:18,215 --> 00:26:23,375 um, I, I definitely want to break down barriers and doors. 560 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:27,970 And help people, help other people like me see what they can be like. 561 00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:30,730 When I was coming up, I didn't know anything about programming. 562 00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:33,040 Like I, that just wasn't on my radar at all. 563 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,750 Like nobody I knew in the world. 564 00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:37,400 Um, was a coder or anything like that. 565 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,310 So if I didn't see it, it's just not even a possibility. 566 00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:42,740 Like I literally did not know it existed. 567 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:43,160 Right. 568 00:26:43,485 --> 00:26:47,600 I, I stumbled into a programming course, not even knowing what it is. 569 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,200 I just thought, oh, my dad told me, actually, you need to go learn 570 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,170 about computers because they're about to take over the world. 571 00:26:54,290 --> 00:26:55,670 Kind of like this AI thing. 572 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,980 Um, but back then it was computers and so I, me not knowing what. 573 00:27:00,980 --> 00:27:03,650 Uh, computers do or whatever. 574 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:06,260 I just like found one course that said something about 575 00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:09,080 computers and that was a c plus plus programming course. 576 00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:12,500 It wasn't like an intro to like windows or something. 577 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:16,580 It was like hardcore thrown into the deep end, and I actually loved it. 578 00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:18,290 So that's how I looked up and got into it. 579 00:27:18,290 --> 00:27:19,700 But if not for that. 580 00:27:20,175 --> 00:27:22,965 I'm, who knows where I would be and what I would be doing. 581 00:27:22,965 --> 00:27:28,155 And so it's really important to me to be, you know, representation 582 00:27:28,155 --> 00:27:32,115 for other people like me so that they know that it exists, even 583 00:27:32,115 --> 00:27:35,205 if they choose not to go that route to just know that it exists. 584 00:27:35,475 --> 00:27:38,385 But what's really special is I don't. 585 00:27:38,975 --> 00:27:42,215 I'm not a person that just walks around talking about that sort of thing. 586 00:27:42,365 --> 00:27:43,925 No, you are, are so humble. 587 00:27:43,985 --> 00:27:44,525 I'd be wanting 588 00:27:44,525 --> 00:27:45,995 to come for people on the internet. 589 00:27:45,995 --> 00:27:47,735 They'd be like, trying to say stuff about you and I'm like, 590 00:27:47,945 --> 00:27:50,435 I will tell you her resume, just because she is humble. 591 00:27:50,435 --> 00:27:51,395 I'll do it for her. 592 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,455 Like, like You're amazing. 593 00:27:54,455 --> 00:27:54,815 Yeah. 594 00:27:54,815 --> 00:27:58,745 But I, and, and I don't want, I don't, I don't want to. 595 00:27:59,135 --> 00:28:03,215 I don't like I'm in this space 'cause I really love tech, so I don't 596 00:28:03,215 --> 00:28:07,505 want to even be distracted and talking about things like being a woman. 597 00:28:07,895 --> 00:28:07,955 Yeah. 598 00:28:07,955 --> 00:28:09,035 Or being black. 599 00:28:09,035 --> 00:28:11,945 Like I don't want you to like, I don't want 600 00:28:11,945 --> 00:28:13,925 that to be what the conversation is about. 601 00:28:13,925 --> 00:28:17,915 Like I'm, because it really does get to be it about AI and mcps. 602 00:28:17,915 --> 00:28:19,235 Like let's talk about that. 603 00:28:19,235 --> 00:28:20,945 And so I really appreciate like when you're like. 604 00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:22,940 Oh, I like you. 605 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:25,820 Not because like, oh, you're a black woman because 606 00:28:25,820 --> 00:28:28,700 you're doing dope stuff, you know, in tech. 607 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:29,535 Like, I like that. 608 00:28:29,535 --> 00:28:29,735 Well, 609 00:28:29,855 --> 00:28:32,210 I, I remember that like, so I love computers 610 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:33,710 the whole time when I was younger and then. 611 00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:36,980 I took my first web design class and I hated it. 612 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:38,389 I was like, this is not for me. 613 00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:39,560 Dreamer sucks. 614 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,540 Like I don't ever wanna do this again. 615 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,510 And it was so funny 'cause like I watched Hidden Figures and 616 00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:46,610 I was like, I love computers so much, but I don't know why. 617 00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:49,070 Like I all the like intro classes they put me in. 618 00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:50,090 Absolutely hated it. 619 00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:54,380 And then I got my first Java class and I was like, oh my God, I love this. 620 00:28:54,380 --> 00:28:56,210 And it was crazy because nobody. 621 00:28:56,885 --> 00:28:59,375 Like everything that was ever like computers, I didn't know 622 00:28:59,375 --> 00:29:02,435 that it existed, like being a computer programmer existed. 623 00:29:02,435 --> 00:29:06,665 But anything that was like, I guess shopped to me as like, this is 624 00:29:06,665 --> 00:29:10,415 what girls do in computers, was never the things I liked, you know? 625 00:29:11,045 --> 00:29:15,200 Mm. So seeing like you, and like the way that you talked about Java and 626 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,514 you were so excited and everybody was always like, I'll try Python, or I'll 627 00:29:18,514 --> 00:29:23,014 try, I don't know, JavaScript, but Java's too hard or it's too complicated. 628 00:29:23,014 --> 00:29:24,425 And I was like, I love the like. 629 00:29:25,065 --> 00:29:28,635 Just the structure and the fact that it is complicated, you know? 630 00:29:28,635 --> 00:29:31,965 And then you were the only person who was just like, you were so 631 00:29:31,965 --> 00:29:34,335 excited about it and you were just like, and then I built this 632 00:29:34,335 --> 00:29:36,645 thing and then I built this and that, like added it all together. 633 00:29:36,645 --> 00:29:38,685 And I was like, finally, like someone like me, 634 00:29:38,685 --> 00:29:41,685 but like, even cooler, like, I wanna be like you. 635 00:29:41,685 --> 00:29:43,185 So it was just so cool. 636 00:29:43,185 --> 00:29:45,825 Like you, you didn't shy away from any of the hard things. 637 00:29:45,995 --> 00:29:49,025 You know, like you never, and it's so hard because sometimes people 638 00:29:49,025 --> 00:29:51,245 will be like, come and do this talk because you're a black woman. 639 00:29:51,245 --> 00:29:52,055 And I'm like, can I do it? 640 00:29:52,055 --> 00:29:53,675 'cause this thing is really cool, you know? 641 00:29:53,705 --> 00:29:54,725 But like, yeah. 642 00:29:54,725 --> 00:29:56,105 And, and I'm dope and I know my stuff. 643 00:29:56,105 --> 00:29:56,405 Yeah. 644 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,695 Like, but then also like, I do really appreciate that I do see myself 645 00:30:00,695 --> 00:30:03,455 in you, but it's not like you're only skill, you know what I mean? 646 00:30:03,455 --> 00:30:05,285 Like you're not only known for diversity. 647 00:30:05,285 --> 00:30:07,745 And I'm like, I try so hard to figure out like 648 00:30:07,745 --> 00:30:09,425 how you did that, because I wanna do that. 649 00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:10,625 'cause I don't wanna just get like. 650 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,470 Given diversity talks, but it is important to be 651 00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:15,510 in those rooms and to speak up for those things. 652 00:30:15,930 --> 00:30:20,160 But like you are just such an amazing contributor to so many projects and 653 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,400 you do so many things, and like, I just love that it's never like, you 654 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,430 don't ever shy away from the new thing or the hard thing and you like, it's 655 00:30:26,430 --> 00:30:29,700 almost like a great light, an example to show us how to do it, you know? 656 00:30:30,090 --> 00:30:31,440 So I just appreciate you. 657 00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:32,070 Thank you. 658 00:30:32,075 --> 00:30:33,900 You've, you've switched a lot in the things 659 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,790 that you focused on over your career so far. 660 00:30:35,790 --> 00:30:36,540 How do you. 661 00:30:36,860 --> 00:30:38,120 Choose what to focus on. 662 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:38,240 Right? 663 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,590 Because there's so many things, right? 664 00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:41,540 You, you have to say no to a lot of things. 665 00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:44,960 Once you're at a certain level of like, I understand what's possible. 666 00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:47,179 Now I have to start focusing and say, I'm gonna invest 667 00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:50,179 some time here instead of over at the other thing. 668 00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:50,510 Right? 669 00:30:50,510 --> 00:30:51,560 Like, how do you make that decision? 670 00:30:52,159 --> 00:30:52,850 I. Yeah. 671 00:30:52,910 --> 00:30:56,420 Um, I like to be on the cutting edge of tech. 672 00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:59,960 Um, that just keeps everything really interesting for me. 673 00:31:00,380 --> 00:31:05,510 Um, one for myself, but also one gift that I have is being able 674 00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:10,850 to explain concepts like very simply and help people understand. 675 00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:13,070 And so I like to get ahead of it before. 676 00:31:13,070 --> 00:31:14,510 Four is the main thing. 677 00:31:14,510 --> 00:31:16,610 Like the, like the whole MCP thing. 678 00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:20,420 I was there on day one in November when it dropped and 679 00:31:20,420 --> 00:31:23,570 I was like, oh, yo, this is so, like, this is dope. 680 00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:28,220 Let me learn as much as I can about it because it could take off. 681 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:31,250 I was hoping it would, but I wanna be able to explain it 682 00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:34,160 to people, you know, and help them figure out like how 683 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,210 to utilize it in whatever they're doing or how to, uh. 684 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:40,220 Avoid certain problems. 685 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:43,820 I wanna know the ugly, the bad, you know, the good, all about it. 686 00:31:44,030 --> 00:31:44,660 Same thing. 687 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,840 Um, when I went, when I worked on the stuff with 688 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,140 TBD, and so at that time everybody was talking about 689 00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:54,530 decentralization, but people were going the wrong route. 690 00:31:54,530 --> 00:32:00,140 You know, they were like all into crypto and, oh, we need crypto for everything. 691 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:02,900 Like, we shouldn't be able to even post on Twitter without. 692 00:32:03,245 --> 00:32:06,785 Put some Bitcoin on it and it's like, yo, 693 00:32:06,845 --> 00:32:10,145 okay, I don't think that's the right way to go. 694 00:32:10,265 --> 00:32:13,895 Let's find like some other ways to explore decentralization, 695 00:32:13,895 --> 00:32:17,015 maybe using like smarter technology and things like that. 696 00:32:17,225 --> 00:32:19,595 So that's always kind of been my approach, 697 00:32:19,595 --> 00:32:22,505 like what's what, where is the industry headed? 698 00:32:22,895 --> 00:32:25,535 Um, people always ask me, what's your long-term plan? 699 00:32:25,535 --> 00:32:27,305 I don't have long-term plans. 700 00:32:27,305 --> 00:32:30,485 I keep myself very much so open and available 701 00:32:30,485 --> 00:32:33,305 so that I can easily pivot when I need to. 702 00:32:33,305 --> 00:32:34,025 You know what I mean? 703 00:32:34,025 --> 00:32:38,585 And so right now I've actually been talking about AI Before 704 00:32:38,585 --> 00:32:41,855 generative AI was, you know, a hot thing before it was. 705 00:32:42,025 --> 00:32:42,625 Accessible. 706 00:32:42,625 --> 00:32:46,375 Like I could see, all right, this is coming pretty soon. 707 00:32:46,405 --> 00:32:48,895 I didn't know it would take this form, but I knew it 708 00:32:48,895 --> 00:32:51,955 was coming pretty soon, and so I studied that way back. 709 00:32:51,955 --> 00:32:56,905 You would, if you look me up from years ago, I have talks and things on ai. 710 00:32:57,025 --> 00:33:00,985 I was already working in AI in some form or another, and 711 00:33:00,985 --> 00:33:04,345 so now that that's landed, I already have that expertise. 712 00:33:04,345 --> 00:33:08,665 I can come in and kind of help, you know, others who need to adopt. 713 00:33:10,850 --> 00:33:13,940 I also appreciate that you, you'll find a 714 00:33:13,940 --> 00:33:17,600 new tool and you don't like car salesman. 715 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,200 It, you know, like some people will just be like, it's new 716 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,240 and then you should use it for everything, and we're all like. 717 00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:26,690 But should you, you know, but you'll be like, Hey, 718 00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:29,840 this new tool is good for this and you can do these. 719 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:30,080 Don't try to 720 00:33:30,740 --> 00:33:31,639 do it on everything. 721 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,240 That's right. 722 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:32,330 Yes. 723 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,950 Like you can do it and use it for this tool and it will help you to do this. 724 00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:39,560 Like, you have very good use cases and very clear 725 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,710 use cases and it never comes off disingenuous. 726 00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:46,190 Like I feel like I just side eyed all of, 727 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,590 um, decentralization until you got into it. 728 00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:50,840 And then I was like, okay, maybe 'cause Miss Angie's talking about it. 729 00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:56,435 You know what I. I feel like you, when you co-sign 730 00:33:56,435 --> 00:34:00,815 something, you have very, um, real ways to use it. 731 00:34:00,815 --> 00:34:03,875 And you don't just give ev like, you don't just put your name on everything. 732 00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:06,275 And I think that even goes back to what we were talking earlier with 733 00:34:06,275 --> 00:34:10,715 like how honesty is expensive, but it also like, it makes us trust you. 734 00:34:10,715 --> 00:34:13,025 Like when you put your name on something, it's completely 735 00:34:13,025 --> 00:34:16,205 different than just any person in dev reel, you know? 736 00:34:16,895 --> 00:34:17,135 Yeah. 737 00:34:17,135 --> 00:34:17,345 And that 738 00:34:17,345 --> 00:34:19,114 actually leads me to one of the questions I wanna ask. 739 00:34:19,114 --> 00:34:20,614 When should I not use MCP? 740 00:34:21,170 --> 00:34:21,409 Right. 741 00:34:21,409 --> 00:34:22,970 Like when, when is it not a good fit? 742 00:34:25,550 --> 00:34:29,750 Okay, so, um, there's a lot, I'm not gonna 743 00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:33,380 say not use MCP, but like use it wisely. 744 00:34:33,380 --> 00:34:37,940 So there's a lot of talk right now about the security of MCP. 745 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:41,150 We're very much so yo lowing this right now. 746 00:34:41,150 --> 00:34:42,139 It's so new. 747 00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:48,190 Um, and there's a lot that can be matured, um, in the space. 748 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,060 We're actually using MCP very heavily internally 749 00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:55,000 within blog, and I wanna write a blog post. 750 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,730 I just gotta find the time to do it, but I wanna talk about like. 751 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,200 For enterprise type use cases. 752 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,700 'cause this looks very different than the vibe coding you do on Saturdays when 753 00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:08,810 you're just like, oh yeah, here's, here's five mcps I'm gonna throw in here. 754 00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:11,840 You know, from, from my boy I never heard of on GitHub. 755 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,070 But uh, 756 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,190 that's so real though. 757 00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:16,490 People 758 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:17,990 just be using anything and I'm like, you 759 00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:19,190 can be using anything. 760 00:35:19,250 --> 00:35:20,210 And I'm just like, that's. 761 00:35:20,585 --> 00:35:23,075 That's different when you're like, oh, I wanna build this really 762 00:35:23,075 --> 00:35:26,285 cool thing, but like the security person to me, my, I be twitching. 763 00:35:26,285 --> 00:35:29,285 And they're like, and now I built it and connected it to all of my data. 764 00:35:29,285 --> 00:35:31,385 And I'm like, oh, why? 765 00:35:31,685 --> 00:35:31,955 Yeah. 766 00:35:32,375 --> 00:35:33,275 That's nuts, right? 767 00:35:33,485 --> 00:35:38,315 So, uh, so, so there's like a lot, a lot of ways I'm 768 00:35:38,315 --> 00:35:41,195 like looking at, okay, how do you use it responsibly 769 00:35:41,195 --> 00:35:45,605 When, like, how do you suss out different CPS internally? 770 00:35:45,635 --> 00:35:49,715 We, we basically have, um. 771 00:35:50,495 --> 00:35:52,895 We create a lot of our own, even if one 772 00:35:52,895 --> 00:35:55,415 already exists, we'll just make it ourselves. 773 00:35:55,415 --> 00:35:59,495 And so that way we know that it's safe, um, and it's in-house. 774 00:35:59,495 --> 00:36:05,225 And we also help, like I told you, we not just, the engineers are using it. 775 00:36:05,255 --> 00:36:06,455 Everybody wants to use it. 776 00:36:06,455 --> 00:36:11,255 So you got people in, uh, HR in, uh. 777 00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:15,980 The finance department, the, the executive assistants, 778 00:36:15,980 --> 00:36:19,010 the marketers, like everybody is using it and they wanna 779 00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:21,620 connect to these systems that I never even heard of. 780 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:23,810 Like, these are systems that I don't use, you know, like 781 00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:26,390 these are for the finance folks or something, you know? 782 00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:30,290 Um, and so they're like, oh, I need a, I need a MCP server for this. 783 00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:31,670 And we are like, oh, okay. 784 00:36:31,819 --> 00:36:34,580 But all of this is being connected to very sensitive data. 785 00:36:34,580 --> 00:36:39,260 So we create those CP service ourselves and keep them in-house, but we also. 786 00:36:39,655 --> 00:36:43,975 Uh, do a lot of the plumbing for them, like they don't wanna be. 787 00:36:44,035 --> 00:36:46,675 So for MCP server, anybody who hasn't done it, you're 788 00:36:46,675 --> 00:36:50,485 like copying JSON and like putting it in a file. 789 00:36:50,515 --> 00:36:54,145 Like it is real, it's real raw out here right now, you know, 790 00:36:54,145 --> 00:36:57,715 like you're copying like MPM commands and stuff like that. 791 00:36:57,985 --> 00:36:58,615 So. 792 00:36:59,255 --> 00:37:02,255 You know, Ted and finance don't wanna do that, right? 793 00:37:02,255 --> 00:37:04,984 And so you're like, okay, let me, let me hook this up for you. 794 00:37:04,984 --> 00:37:07,265 Let me like wrap it and o off. 795 00:37:07,265 --> 00:37:09,035 I'm gonna hit, hook it up real nice. 796 00:37:09,065 --> 00:37:10,925 All you gotta do is press a button, you know? 797 00:37:10,925 --> 00:37:11,495 And so. 798 00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:12,980 It's pretty sweet. 799 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:14,510 That's what I'm excited about. 800 00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:18,290 Like I understand that AI is where we're going, but I want to really 801 00:37:18,590 --> 00:37:23,029 help educate people on when to use AI and how to make it safer. 802 00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:26,450 Because, because we're giving people the ability to use 803 00:37:26,450 --> 00:37:29,480 technologies that they may like be very new to them. 804 00:37:29,779 --> 00:37:33,710 I think it's gonna be really important to help educate people on what those 805 00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:37,670 technologies do and when you need to be like more careful with using them. 806 00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:39,380 Yeah. 807 00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:40,850 So let me tell you this. 808 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:43,610 Um, and this is a real thing that's, that's happening. 809 00:37:43,610 --> 00:37:49,310 My sister is not in tech and she, she text me the other night and she's 810 00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:53,390 like, yo, you all around the world teaching everybody else about ai? 811 00:37:53,450 --> 00:37:54,560 What, what about me? 812 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,000 I need to know it too. 813 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,140 She, because she's, she's very aware that it's becoming 814 00:38:00,140 --> 00:38:02,390 so mainstream that you're going to have to use it. 815 00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:03,380 It's like, it's like. 816 00:38:04,055 --> 00:38:06,154 Trying to apply for a job and you don't know like 817 00:38:06,185 --> 00:38:08,915 how to use, it's like the cell phone before, like not 818 00:38:08,915 --> 00:38:11,375 having an iPhone or not having a cell phone People act, but go 819 00:38:11,375 --> 00:38:13,835 bigger than that because that's more personal. 820 00:38:13,835 --> 00:38:14,915 Like this is work. 821 00:38:14,915 --> 00:38:15,545 This is like. 822 00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:18,830 People are going to have to know how to use this. 823 00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:20,840 Like, oh, I don't know how to type on the computer. 824 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,150 I still just use the typewriter. 825 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,310 It's like, all right, you're not gonna get the job. 826 00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:29,750 So she recognizes the shift that's occurring and she wants 827 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:33,950 to educate herself, but she has no idea where to even start. 828 00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:37,115 Like it is so much noise out there right now. 829 00:38:37,115 --> 00:38:40,310 Everybody's trying to sell you something as the end all be 830 00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:44,120 all solution like, and she doesn't even know where to begin. 831 00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:47,430 Two days later, my aunt called me, aunt Connie called 832 00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:51,060 and said, baby, you got some AI classes I can take? 833 00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:54,900 And she's like, you need to, you need to make us some classes and, 834 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:57,630 and give me a little certification or something to go with it. 835 00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:59,330 That's Aunt Connie. 836 00:38:59,450 --> 00:39:00,560 So people, I love that she 837 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,190 knew you were the person that makes the classes certifications, so that's fire. 838 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:07,070 She was like, she'll make one for me. 839 00:39:07,070 --> 00:39:07,430 It'll be fun. 840 00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:10,580 But, but everyday folks, this is not just a tech thing. 841 00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:12,680 Everyday folks are realizing like, this is something 842 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,290 that they need to learn, but what are we doing? 843 00:39:16,010 --> 00:39:17,930 Uh, to help people get there. 844 00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:21,470 Like there's big pushes in companies too that say y'all 845 00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:24,350 need to use AI to be more efficient and to move faster. 846 00:39:24,350 --> 00:39:25,760 Sounds great on paper. 847 00:39:25,850 --> 00:39:27,440 How do I do that? 848 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,010 And to your point, how do I do it safely, right? 849 00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:32,810 And how do I do it efficiently? 850 00:39:33,455 --> 00:39:33,635 And 851 00:39:33,635 --> 00:39:36,245 I think that we, like, there's so many aspects we need to 852 00:39:36,245 --> 00:39:39,185 teach, you know, aunt Connie, how to do it and how to be safe. 853 00:39:39,515 --> 00:39:43,235 But also there's so many older people in our like lives that like we have to 854 00:39:43,235 --> 00:39:46,444 teach them how to be safe from ai, not to give too much of your information, 855 00:39:46,444 --> 00:39:50,615 where to use it, but also there's, we're pitching it to startups in a way where. 856 00:39:51,170 --> 00:39:53,450 Like, and I mean startups that are not just tech startups, right? 857 00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:55,670 Like people that are starting their own business or we're saying 858 00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:57,950 like, you can get rid of your HR department, you can get rid of 859 00:39:57,950 --> 00:40:01,460 this and just put this AI in it, but you're putting personal, full, 860 00:40:01,490 --> 00:40:05,150 personable, identifiable information into these things, right? 861 00:40:05,420 --> 00:40:07,910 Like we need to, like that's cool that you wanna 862 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:10,279 use it, but are we using it in a way that's safe? 863 00:40:10,279 --> 00:40:13,490 And do you still have at least one human that knows the 864 00:40:13,490 --> 00:40:16,250 regulations in that industry that you're doing to make 865 00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:18,470 sure you're safeguarding your business towards that? 866 00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:18,830 You know, 867 00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:20,960 autumn, let me tell you this. 868 00:40:21,055 --> 00:40:25,645 Lemme tell you how, how quickly you can get caught up. 869 00:40:25,985 --> 00:40:29,795 So I had a deadline last night from the IRS 'cause 870 00:40:29,795 --> 00:40:32,885 they were like, oh, you owe us money from 2023. 871 00:40:32,945 --> 00:40:34,685 And I was like, I don't owe them no money. 872 00:40:34,955 --> 00:40:38,285 And it had like all of my stock stuff on there from my 873 00:40:38,285 --> 00:40:40,805 company, which, you know, your company pays that already. 874 00:40:40,805 --> 00:40:42,965 So I had to, I had the letter, same problem. 875 00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:43,450 Yep. 876 00:40:43,569 --> 00:40:46,480 So I don't know that kind of stuff that well, like, I 877 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,200 don't know, IRS speak that well, you know, and so I'm, I'm 878 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,740 with, I'm with Chad GPT and I'm like, help me craft this. 879 00:40:53,740 --> 00:40:55,090 This is what's going on. 880 00:40:55,330 --> 00:40:58,900 And it was so tempting, even for somebody like me who knows 881 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,200 better, it was so tempting, like, damn, I should just upload 882 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,610 my, my tax returns in here so they can tell me exactly. 883 00:41:06,875 --> 00:41:10,205 Where the discrepancy is, but I knew better not to do that. 884 00:41:10,415 --> 00:41:12,815 But somebody else, like Aunt Connie wouldn't know that. 885 00:41:12,815 --> 00:41:14,105 She would just put it right in there. 886 00:41:14,105 --> 00:41:15,755 Every day in regular day life, 887 00:41:15,755 --> 00:41:19,325 I'm like, oh, this is a task that my brain does not wanna write this thing. 888 00:41:19,325 --> 00:41:22,415 And I'm just like, oh, but can you just imagine how this is 889 00:41:22,415 --> 00:41:28,115 gonna go on Twitter security expert puts her like, you know, 890 00:41:28,295 --> 00:41:30,800 you're just like, oh, you know better, but it won't be so easy. 891 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,080 That's 892 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:31,120 okay. 893 00:41:31,125 --> 00:41:32,585 You work at Microsoft, so you have an out. 894 00:41:33,470 --> 00:41:34,010 Justin. 895 00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:36,800 Okay. 896 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,010 The best part of this whole podcast is Miss Angie's faces 897 00:41:40,010 --> 00:41:42,200 that she makes every time Justin say something ridiculous. 898 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,860 I was throwing, like, throwing whatever out there. 899 00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:48,290 Also, you look so pretty today. 900 00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:49,130 Thank you. 901 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:49,520 Thank you. 902 00:41:49,550 --> 00:41:50,775 Oh, I wasn't talking to you. 903 00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:53,360 You do too. 904 00:41:53,690 --> 00:41:54,410 Thank you. 905 00:41:55,085 --> 00:41:56,315 My, my last question here. 906 00:41:56,345 --> 00:41:57,490 You mentioned when you good to Justin. 907 00:41:57,870 --> 00:42:00,250 Oh, when you, 908 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,075 he's like, finally, someone's being nice to me. 909 00:42:02,855 --> 00:42:03,785 I'm trying to ask a question here. 910 00:42:04,295 --> 00:42:05,105 I'm trying to be serious. 911 00:42:05,105 --> 00:42:06,275 Keep us on track a little bit. 912 00:42:06,755 --> 00:42:09,635 Uh, when you said you, you graduating college, you got your 913 00:42:09,635 --> 00:42:13,445 certificates, it helped you kind of get a leg up in the industry. 914 00:42:13,505 --> 00:42:16,295 Uh, your, your aunt or whoever's calling you saying, I need to 915 00:42:16,295 --> 00:42:20,315 get certificate or some classes to up my skill level in this area. 916 00:42:20,615 --> 00:42:24,185 I talk to a lot of people that are new in tech or trying to get in tech. 917 00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:25,760 And I don't think that. 918 00:42:26,149 --> 00:42:29,569 In today's world, especially with AI as a tool 919 00:42:29,569 --> 00:42:31,580 chain, we can rely on for a lot of things. 920 00:42:31,580 --> 00:42:33,620 I don't know that certificates are the right place to 921 00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:37,310 point people to say, you're gonna get recognized or 922 00:42:37,310 --> 00:42:41,060 you're gonna get a a some advantage if you have this cer. 923 00:42:41,060 --> 00:42:41,149 Mm-hmm. 924 00:42:41,279 --> 00:42:45,450 Certificate rather than person that goes and builds something or, or tries 925 00:42:45,450 --> 00:42:48,330 something and maybe even fails at it, but then publicly talks about it. 926 00:42:48,330 --> 00:42:48,569 Right. 927 00:42:48,779 --> 00:42:51,660 Where do you think people are falling in this, in today's 928 00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,930 tech world of, I'm trying to use technology in my job. 929 00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:57,720 I'm not a technologist, or I'm not, it's not software as the thing 930 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,319 that I do, or people that are trying to get into software and say. 931 00:43:01,670 --> 00:43:05,420 Uh, do I get all the AWS certificates to be a cloud engineer? 932 00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:08,510 Do I go get the Java thing to be a Java developer? 933 00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:11,010 Where do you think people are trying to educate themselves and where are you 934 00:43:11,010 --> 00:43:15,470 seeing that businesses are rewarding them for their efforts to give them jobs? 935 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:18,800 I'm gonna say something controvert. 936 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,680 I didn't want, I hate to go here, but I gotta tell y'all the truth. 937 00:43:22,130 --> 00:43:23,840 So for some people it's different. 938 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,730 Justin, you need, you need some paperwork behind whatever else you've done. 939 00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:30,230 You could have built the things. 940 00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:33,770 So in college I did three internships. 941 00:43:33,770 --> 00:43:38,420 I did uh, two with Boeing, and I did one with IBM. 942 00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:42,410 People wouldn't talk to me until I had that Java certification. 943 00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:45,710 So even though I had exp experience, I had more experience 944 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:48,320 than than any college student you're gonna talk to. 945 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,340 I spent like, not just the summers, I spent a semester 946 00:43:52,340 --> 00:43:56,390 doing college work and working at Boeing at the same time. 947 00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:59,750 Like I had the, the receipts but it, without 948 00:43:59,750 --> 00:44:02,630 that certification, I couldn't break into tech. 949 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:03,440 You know what I mean? 950 00:44:03,620 --> 00:44:07,340 So for some of us, we don't get like that 951 00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:09,365 benefit of the doubt, like, your work is enough. 952 00:44:09,365 --> 00:44:09,620 There is no 953 00:44:09,620 --> 00:44:10,430 benefit of the doubt. 954 00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:13,100 You gotta do like five times more than everyone else. 955 00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:13,160 Yeah. 956 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,810 And they still think you're some like. 957 00:44:14,970 --> 00:44:16,230 DEI hire or something. 958 00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:16,410 Yeah. 959 00:44:16,410 --> 00:44:16,411 And 960 00:44:16,416 --> 00:44:18,660 so and so, it's like, oh, okay, you took the, 961 00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:21,930 you took a test that I know, I know that test. 962 00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:22,410 Right. 963 00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:25,710 Um, I know how hard that test is and, oh, okay. 964 00:44:25,710 --> 00:44:26,610 You passed that. 965 00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:26,970 All right. 966 00:44:26,970 --> 00:44:28,260 I guess I'll give you a shot. 967 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:29,430 I 968 00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:30,120 also think that. 969 00:44:30,980 --> 00:44:34,370 Certifications don't, I wouldn't say they teach me things, but 970 00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:38,420 they give me a deadline in which I have to learn things by, right? 971 00:44:38,690 --> 00:44:41,360 So I can't study for a test in the same traditional way. 972 00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:44,390 Like it's not like a test isn't going to make me know things. 973 00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:49,220 And I don't think it's necessarily the best way of to it's building knowledge. 974 00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:50,990 Like I don't think you can prove that you can build 975 00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:53,810 cool things with a certification, but it will. 976 00:44:54,649 --> 00:44:59,210 It will trick my brain into really focusing on a subject and diving 977 00:44:59,210 --> 00:45:02,060 deep in it because I'm like, oh crap, I have this certification 978 00:45:02,090 --> 00:45:05,090 that is coming up on the first, so I need to know all this stuff. 979 00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:05,930 So the motivation side of it. 980 00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:06,380 Yes. 981 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:07,880 Yeah, that's a good point. 982 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:08,750 Conference driven to develop. 983 00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:09,590 No, that's a really good point. 984 00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:12,620 And it gives you some sort of success even if you don't break in. 985 00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:14,420 So I have a cousin who's studying. 986 00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:16,370 Uh, cybersecurity. 987 00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:19,880 He actually works in a health field, but he wants to switch to tech, and so 988 00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:24,800 being able to just obtain these certification gives him like, oh, I'm doing it. 989 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,630 You know, I'm actually doing it. 990 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,140 Even, even if he doesn't get a job just yet or whatever. 991 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,370 It might also help that 992 00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:32,420 pivot, like, maybe you 993 00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,440 don't get a whole cyber 994 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,270 security job helps, but you get a more in healthcare cybersecurity adjacent job. 995 00:45:38,330 --> 00:45:38,945 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 996 00:45:38,945 --> 00:45:39,920 Something like that. 997 00:45:40,205 --> 00:45:41,194 So I don't know. 998 00:45:41,194 --> 00:45:43,595 And I don't know every space, like I feel like 999 00:45:43,595 --> 00:45:47,045 security certifications are important from what I see. 1000 00:45:47,255 --> 00:45:49,625 Government type gov tech type thing. 1001 00:45:49,625 --> 00:45:50,795 They're definitely industries 1002 00:45:50,795 --> 00:45:51,904 that value them more than others. 1003 00:45:51,904 --> 00:45:52,835 Also, honestly. 1004 00:45:52,835 --> 00:45:56,075 Yeah, they have sec, they, my cousin is transitioning 1005 00:45:56,075 --> 00:45:58,475 back into work after being a stay at home mom. 1006 00:45:58,745 --> 00:46:00,665 They've made her get a customer service. 1007 00:46:00,665 --> 00:46:03,755 Certificate, like people agon certificates for everything. 1008 00:46:03,755 --> 00:46:07,835 So like honestly, if like it, I think it depends on the level of job. 1009 00:46:07,835 --> 00:46:09,995 Maybe if you're just starting out, that's a good realm. 1010 00:46:10,055 --> 00:46:13,265 You know, like if you can find, especially like a lot of libraries will 1011 00:46:13,265 --> 00:46:17,225 have ways to get your certifications for free or like different things. 1012 00:46:17,225 --> 00:46:18,035 Like I wouldn't go. 1013 00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:20,660 Like spending your life savings on it if you don't have to. 1014 00:46:20,660 --> 00:46:22,880 But like, I would definitely look into ways 1015 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,940 that get free or low cost certifications. 1016 00:46:25,940 --> 00:46:29,540 'cause like, I mean I've taken actual like classes from Angie's like 1017 00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:33,170 test automation University and I learned a lot, you know what I mean? 1018 00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:34,279 And that's a free resource. 1019 00:46:34,279 --> 00:46:38,360 So I think there's, there's ways like you can audit Coursera classes and then 1020 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,960 if you really want it, like get like a certification from that university. 1021 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,480 So I do think, I think sometimes like. 1022 00:46:44,650 --> 00:46:48,279 Some people just need a way to break in, but I don't think, like, I think it's 1023 00:46:48,279 --> 00:46:50,980 different when you work for a major company and they force you to get cert 1024 00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:54,880 six certifications, like you're gonna all of a sudden be a master at that. 1025 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:55,600 And I'm just like, ugh. 1026 00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:58,690 Because we've all been there like, you know. 1027 00:46:59,404 --> 00:47:00,755 I have a one last question. 1028 00:47:01,085 --> 00:47:03,215 How do you think cost will play into all this? 1029 00:47:03,215 --> 00:47:07,475 Because right now a lot of this technology is be giving away for free, right? 1030 00:47:07,715 --> 00:47:10,295 So like, do you, like, how do you think that, like when we 1031 00:47:10,295 --> 00:47:13,895 start having to charge for the, like the amount of compute power 1032 00:47:13,895 --> 00:47:17,555 that goes into all these things, like do you think that like. 1033 00:47:18,095 --> 00:47:21,455 Like, you know, an API versus, I don't know, an agent. 1034 00:47:21,455 --> 00:47:24,305 Like, are agents going to end up being like way more expensive? 1035 00:47:24,305 --> 00:47:24,725 You know what I mean? 1036 00:47:24,725 --> 00:47:28,715 Like, I just wonder how cost will play into all of this, because that's 1037 00:47:28,715 --> 00:47:32,825 a great question and I am, I'm already seeing it actually. 1038 00:47:33,035 --> 00:47:38,495 So for example, I, I told you all Goose is open source is free to use. 1039 00:47:38,495 --> 00:47:39,515 It's local. 1040 00:47:39,605 --> 00:47:40,835 We don't track anything. 1041 00:47:40,835 --> 00:47:41,555 It's whatever. 1042 00:47:42,305 --> 00:47:45,455 But you gotta bring your own LLM, right? 1043 00:47:45,455 --> 00:47:50,495 And so if you bring, uh, one of the ones, one 1044 00:47:50,495 --> 00:47:53,345 of the powerful ones, you have to pay for that. 1045 00:47:53,465 --> 00:47:55,895 And I'm like, at first, when I first started 1046 00:47:55,895 --> 00:47:57,995 looking into like L LMS and stuff, I'm like. 1047 00:47:58,370 --> 00:48:00,080 Wait is stuff not free? 1048 00:48:01,010 --> 00:48:03,050 Like you're just used to everything being free. 1049 00:48:03,050 --> 00:48:04,100 Like what? 1050 00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:09,080 And so it's not free and I've been actually observing this, uh, and 1051 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,640 it's interesting to me that developers who are like the cheapest people 1052 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,710 on earth, God, Jesus, are willing, are willing to pay for LLMs usage. 1053 00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:21,380 Like they pay, I see them pay like a 1054 00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:23,600 hundred dollars a month and stuff like that. 1055 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:23,990 It's like. 1056 00:48:24,529 --> 00:48:25,880 Interesting. 1057 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,569 But then I started thinking about like, what does this mean for 1058 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:36,410 junior folks or folks in, you know, areas that are not as rich as like 1059 00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:40,220 America, whatever, where you don't have an extra a hundred dollars to 1060 00:48:40,220 --> 00:48:44,600 blow on like, you know, LLM usage and like playing around with stuff. 1061 00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:46,250 So it's, it is really interesting. 1062 00:48:46,250 --> 00:48:47,450 I don't have any answers. 1063 00:48:47,450 --> 00:48:50,660 It's just things that I've been observing over the last couple of months. 1064 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,550 We're definitely in the Uber VC funding phase of this right, where 1065 00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:59,180 we can offset all of the promise of, you'll make money in the future 1066 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,945 by saying, Hey, those rides are cheap right now, but as soon as, as 1067 00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:06,170 soon as the bill, soon as the taxi system adjusts, or we have some 1068 00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:09,020 other regulation in place, or we have to actually pay our drivers 1069 00:49:09,020 --> 00:49:12,225 better or give them any benefits, like all those regulations cycle up. 1070 00:49:13,055 --> 00:49:14,175 Oh, that's actually, I was hoping it was 1071 00:49:14,175 --> 00:49:16,025 gonna go down, Justin. 1072 00:49:16,025 --> 00:49:20,765 I was hoping it was gonna, I was hoping this all just becomes free, like with 1073 00:49:20,765 --> 00:49:24,425 the hopes of like the deep seek and then you need to compete with deep seek. 1074 00:49:24,425 --> 00:49:27,845 So you gotta give me a really good model, open source, and free too. 1075 00:49:27,845 --> 00:49:28,295 Well, I mean, 1076 00:49:28,355 --> 00:49:31,565 the, the freedom of it can cost you, you know, your time. 1077 00:49:31,745 --> 00:49:31,925 Sure. 1078 00:49:31,925 --> 00:49:33,905 If you're gonna run it yourself, if you have the expertise 1079 00:49:33,905 --> 00:49:35,975 and you invest the time to learn how to do it yourself. 1080 00:49:35,975 --> 00:49:37,715 Like I have GPUs right behind me. 1081 00:49:37,715 --> 00:49:39,455 I run a, you know, LLM models on it. 1082 00:49:39,455 --> 00:49:40,895 Like we can do that. 1083 00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:43,670 At home, but I had to learn the skillset to do that. 1084 00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:45,290 And not everyone can do that either, right? 1085 00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:45,380 Mm-hmm. 1086 00:49:45,380 --> 00:49:46,670 There is that overlap. 1087 00:49:47,210 --> 00:49:47,720 That's true. 1088 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:48,290 Gonna fight Microsoft. 1089 00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:50,810 You have an extra hundred bucks patching, you can go. 1090 00:49:51,230 --> 00:49:53,420 A hundred extra a hundred bucks, you can go pay for it somewhere. 1091 00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:56,360 If you've got an extra five hours, you can go learn to do it yourself. 1092 00:49:56,570 --> 00:49:56,750 Right? 1093 00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:56,931 Yeah, that's true. 1094 00:49:56,936 --> 00:49:57,020 True. 1095 00:49:57,020 --> 00:49:57,950 But somewhere in there true. 1096 00:49:58,130 --> 00:50:00,590 You have to be able to invest in it somehow. 1097 00:50:00,590 --> 00:50:02,990 And, and a lot of people coming into the space, they have 1098 00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:05,990 a lot more time than money so they can try to invest in it. 1099 00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:08,330 And that's how I got into technology was I was like, I have all 1100 00:50:08,330 --> 00:50:11,390 the free time in the world and $0, I'm gonna go learn Linux. 1101 00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:11,810 Right? 1102 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,390 'cause I didn't have money to buy a Mac or use Windows. 1103 00:50:14,570 --> 00:50:15,260 I couldn't pay for it. 1104 00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:16,310 So I'm just learning this other thing. 1105 00:50:16,310 --> 00:50:16,370 Yeah. 1106 00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:16,910 Right. 1107 00:50:16,910 --> 00:50:17,000 Oh, wow. 1108 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:17,090 That. 1109 00:50:17,090 --> 00:50:19,310 And so I do think that that's, we're at, that's really interesting. 1110 00:50:20,660 --> 00:50:21,050 Yeah. 1111 00:50:22,165 --> 00:50:25,790 But I don't, yeah, I mean, there, unless, unless there's a subsidiary. 1112 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,860 At the government level, right? 1113 00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:29,180 Like where we have to keep the cost down, right? 1114 00:50:29,180 --> 00:50:31,820 Like if I look at my electric bill, right? 1115 00:50:31,820 --> 00:50:33,440 Like I can pay for electricity. 1116 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,450 There's only one company that gives it to me in my 1117 00:50:35,450 --> 00:50:37,820 area, but they have, they can't gouge me, right? 1118 00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:39,710 Like I'm a, a captive audience. 1119 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,770 They, if, if, if there was no regulation on their industry, they could 1120 00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:47,150 charge me as much money as I would pay to have power at my house. 1121 00:50:47,540 --> 00:50:47,630 Yeah. 1122 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,960 But there are requirements that they offer this at a reasonable fee. 1123 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,030 So unless we're doing something that offers. 1124 00:50:53,215 --> 00:50:57,085 At a subsidy government sort of law that we say everyone 1125 00:50:57,085 --> 00:51:00,475 needs access to this tool because that'll level up everyone. 1126 00:51:00,475 --> 00:51:02,937 Which I do think, I mean, could be a good, right, a 1127 00:51:02,940 --> 00:51:05,185 good option there, but then someone has to run it. 1128 00:51:05,305 --> 00:51:05,545 Right. 1129 00:51:05,545 --> 00:51:06,175 This isn't free. 1130 00:51:06,175 --> 00:51:06,235 Yeah. 1131 00:51:06,235 --> 00:51:07,285 This does cost a lot of money. 1132 00:51:07,285 --> 00:51:08,395 This is a lot of compute. 1133 00:51:08,845 --> 00:51:08,905 Yeah. 1134 00:51:08,905 --> 00:51:09,355 And, and maybe. 1135 00:51:09,635 --> 00:51:11,225 The cloud providers say, yeah, absolutely. 1136 00:51:11,225 --> 00:51:12,665 We're gonna go into that program. 1137 00:51:12,665 --> 00:51:13,715 We're not gonna make a much money from it. 1138 00:51:13,715 --> 00:51:16,715 But it might get us some other fringe benefits around it. 1139 00:51:16,775 --> 00:51:20,315 But that's also how people start going back to on-prem from the cloud. 1140 00:51:20,315 --> 00:51:20,615 Right? 1141 00:51:20,615 --> 00:51:22,595 Because before, before when they were giving 1142 00:51:22,595 --> 00:51:24,635 it away for free or giving it away for cheap, 1143 00:51:24,694 --> 00:51:25,444 yeah, all those were credits. 1144 00:51:25,444 --> 00:51:25,805 Everybody 1145 00:51:25,805 --> 00:51:26,404 used it. 1146 00:51:26,580 --> 00:51:30,360 So I think the more that they start charging for ai, people are gonna 1147 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:35,040 be like, do I really want this agent or do I just wanna go back to APIs? 1148 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,080 So I think it's going to be interesting to see how that 1149 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,120 shakes out when you have to pay for all these things. 1150 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,370 Because at some point, like. 1151 00:51:41,779 --> 00:51:45,080 They open AI is not gonna keep raising billions of dollars. 1152 00:51:45,110 --> 00:51:45,740 You know what I mean? 1153 00:51:45,740 --> 00:51:45,950 Like, 1154 00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:49,880 no, but the, the point is that this stuff is not free right now. 1155 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,220 Like I use AI extensively at work. 1156 00:51:52,220 --> 00:51:52,310 Mm-hmm. 1157 00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:54,230 Because I'm on Jack Dorsey's bill. 1158 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:54,650 Yeah. 1159 00:51:54,650 --> 00:51:58,730 When I'm at home and I'm working on my side projects, guess what? 1160 00:51:59,330 --> 00:52:01,040 I ain't cranking it out like that. 1161 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,590 I'm, I'm using, I'm using the old school. 1162 00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:04,880 I'm back on the typewriter. 1163 00:52:05,595 --> 00:52:10,010 But see, but see, here's, but here's the, but this is what the, that's actually 1164 00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:14,090 a really good point because the difference is, is Miss Angie has that skill. 1165 00:52:14,465 --> 00:52:17,765 And we are creating a whole generation of people who will not have 1166 00:52:17,765 --> 00:52:20,945 that skill because they will only come into the world with that. 1167 00:52:21,245 --> 00:52:23,855 We are selling it to people as we're telling 1168 00:52:23,855 --> 00:52:24,875 them they don't need to learn it. 1169 00:52:24,905 --> 00:52:26,110 Like, did you see, you don't go to school? 1170 00:52:26,220 --> 00:52:27,665 Like they had more Cuban and all 1171 00:52:27,665 --> 00:52:28,295 these people. 1172 00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:28,670 That's kind a good idea. 1173 00:52:28,740 --> 00:52:29,230 Exactly. 1174 00:52:29,855 --> 00:52:32,645 Like he was like, you could be like almost a doctor if 1175 00:52:32,645 --> 00:52:34,925 you just like have chat GPT, you can learn anything. 1176 00:52:34,925 --> 00:52:35,765 And I was like, no, bro. 1177 00:52:35,765 --> 00:52:38,795 Like you have to actually learn things and then you use it 1178 00:52:38,795 --> 00:52:41,285 to like make you more efficient and to learn those things. 1179 00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:46,029 But it's completely like, that's why I think you using AI is going to be like 1180 00:52:46,060 --> 00:52:49,000 so cool because you're just making yourself more efficient and learning faster. 1181 00:52:49,330 --> 00:52:51,910 But you also know that first programming language, just 1182 00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:54,670 when you don't even have ai, knowing the first programming 1183 00:52:54,670 --> 00:52:56,440 language, knowing the second are two different things. 1184 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:56,680 Right? 1185 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:02,020 So can you imagine you have years of deep open source contributor and like. 1186 00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:06,259 Engineer and just all like you and teaching people how to do things is such a 1187 00:53:06,259 --> 00:53:10,339 deeper level of like knowledge when you've like learned how to teach people. 1188 00:53:10,730 --> 00:53:13,759 So like I think if we, I just hope that we don't lose 1189 00:53:13,759 --> 00:53:16,339 that because people are going to need that, you know? 1190 00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:17,359 Yeah. 1191 00:53:17,359 --> 00:53:19,131 We're, we're really playing with fire right here. 1192 00:53:19,136 --> 00:53:19,225 Yes. 1193 00:53:19,370 --> 00:53:22,040 I think right now I really do in, in a lot of 1194 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,490 different ways, but mostly like that accessibility Yes. 1195 00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:27,919 To this, to this technology. 1196 00:53:28,310 --> 00:53:31,520 Um, and the, and the thing about, well. 1197 00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:35,570 Um, one, you need to be using it even though you might not have access. 1198 00:53:35,570 --> 00:53:38,000 And two, forget trying to learn how to do it on your own. 1199 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:38,900 That's played out. 1200 00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:39,080 Mm-hmm. 1201 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,390 Like both of those are very dangerous. 1202 00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:41,570 Yeah. 1203 00:53:43,610 --> 00:53:43,820 Mm-hmm. 1204 00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:44,870 I think that as you, 1205 00:53:44,930 --> 00:53:45,110 oh. 1206 00:53:45,830 --> 00:53:46,160 Go ahead. 1207 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:46,700 I was gonna close. 1208 00:53:46,759 --> 00:53:47,299 Oh yeah. 1209 00:53:47,299 --> 00:53:49,819 I just think that like, it's so interesting, like companies are 1210 00:53:49,819 --> 00:53:52,580 pushing it, but they're ruining their future workforce because 1211 00:53:52,580 --> 00:53:55,520 they're going to want people who are curious, who are trying 1212 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,430 new things, but they're also cutting that off at the knees. 1213 00:53:58,430 --> 00:54:00,080 So I just wonder where it will all go. 1214 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,500 And plus, like I said, we're not hopping as much anymore, so you have to now 1215 00:54:03,859 --> 00:54:07,879 be there to figure out the results of your bad decisions three years later. 1216 00:54:08,185 --> 00:54:10,640 I mean, I'm just gonna say that's what they do. 1217 00:54:10,759 --> 00:54:11,000 Yeah. 1218 00:54:11,029 --> 00:54:11,600 Microsoft. 1219 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:12,920 It's not the first time they made a mistake. 1220 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,765 Steak, you're not wrong. 1221 00:54:17,445 --> 00:54:19,305 Microsoft's 50th anniversary party. 1222 00:54:19,305 --> 00:54:22,785 Satya said that maybe an AI will run Microsoft in 50 years. 1223 00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:23,935 That's what he said, right? 1224 00:54:23,935 --> 00:54:24,950 Like this is, that's what he said. 1225 00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:28,070 He's like, this is, maybe we don't have another CEO after him. 1226 00:54:28,070 --> 00:54:29,030 Maybe it's an ai. 1227 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:30,620 All right. 1228 00:54:30,860 --> 00:54:31,280 Whatever. 1229 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,080 Like you go see if that, how that works for you. 1230 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,580 So anyway, mark Cuban literally said, 1231 00:54:34,580 --> 00:54:36,800 you don't need college degrees or to learn things. 1232 00:54:36,890 --> 00:54:38,480 We'll, just, you can just use ai. 1233 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,930 And I was like, I don't think you can just walk into any, like, I think we're 1234 00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:45,710 almost like not appreciating what humans do and the reasoning and the context. 1235 00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:45,800 Mm-hmm. 1236 00:54:46,190 --> 00:54:46,820 You know what I mean? 1237 00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:46,970 Like. 1238 00:54:47,655 --> 00:54:48,285 Just the fact, ain't nothing 1239 00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:51,045 artificial about making some mistakes in the real world, right? 1240 00:54:51,045 --> 00:54:51,855 It's so important. 1241 00:54:52,215 --> 00:54:56,145 Like that's part of being an engineer is really being bad at stuff for a while. 1242 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:57,290 Like 1243 00:54:58,635 --> 00:55:00,345 Angie, thank you so much for joining us on the show. 1244 00:55:00,345 --> 00:55:01,215 Where should people find you? 1245 00:55:02,535 --> 00:55:04,185 Angie jones.tech. 1246 00:55:04,185 --> 00:55:07,725 And so I have all of my links there for my social sites as 1247 00:55:07,725 --> 00:55:11,025 well as all of the upcoming conferences that I'm gonna be at. 1248 00:55:11,025 --> 00:55:12,555 So definitely check that out. 1249 00:55:13,250 --> 00:55:16,190 Thank you so much for coming on the show, like you've been like my heroes 1250 00:55:16,430 --> 00:55:19,850 for like forever, so I'm so glad to finally get to Thanks for having me. 1251 00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:22,010 Yeah, and thank you everyone for listening. 1252 00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:23,150 We will talk to you again soon.