[TV Doctor theme music]

Hello, my loves. I’m M. Foss, The TV Doctor, and I am so happy and so proud to be back. If you’re new here, welcome and I love you and thank you for checking out my show. If you’re NOT new here, then you have NO idea how much it means to me that you stuck around with me, especially since it’s been a MINUTE since my last episode. What can I say except that life was lifing, and my non-podcast responsibilities demanded ALL my time and energy. But I never forgot about being The TV Doctor and the oath I took to prescribe the television you should be watching to treat all your emotional ailments. I wanted so much to be talking with you about all the television moments that have happened since my last episode, and I knew that as soon as my non-podcast obligations settled down, I would return to the TV Doctor’s office to get back to this work I love so much. So, as I was getting myself together, a funny thing happened. An idea happened, and it was so powerful that it would not be denied, and it would not wait patiently while I wrapped up Season 4. It is Big Magic. It’s an emergency. I pushed my plans for the last few episodes of Season 4 aside, and I’m using an ambulance, sirens wailing full blast, to bring you Season 5 of The TV Doctor.    

Now, I’m going to want you to think of Season 5 as like a clinical trial. It’s going to be a little different. Rest assured that regular original recipe TV Doctor episodes will be back for Season 6, but Season 5 is going to introduce (drumroll please) a spinoff. Remember when Addison showed up on Grey’s Anatomy to make Meredith’s life miserable, but then people actually liked her, so much in fact that they spun her off into her own show, Private Practice, but not until her character had been fully established on Grey’s? It’s kind of like that. We are soft launching a TV Doctor spinoff right here on The TV Doctor and it will be called The Sickbay.

Why Sickbay, you ask? Well, let me tell you. Those of you who have been with me for a while already know that Star Trek is a huge part of not just the origin story of this podcast, but really, it’s a huge part of my identity. I’ve watched every single Star Trek program, from the original series to Strange New Worlds. I can speak more than a few words of Klingon. When Leonard Nimoy passed, people I hadn’t spoken to in ten years reached out to me to see if I was okay, because one of the things people know about me is that I’m a Trekkie. And no, I was not okay. So, it honestly makes perfect, elegant sense that I would dedicate a season of my podcast to boldly going where…others…have gone before. It’s time for me to do a season of the show that is all about Star Trek.

Now, if you’re thinking, “You know what? I’m not a Star Trek person. I’m not really into Star Trek, so I’ll probably just sit this one out,” I want you to STAY TUNED, because this season promises to be FOR YOU as much as it is for those of us card-carrying members of the Trek Collective, and here’s why. 

In a moment here, you’ll meet Ashley. For Season 5, Ashley is the Hugh Culber to my Leonard “Bones” McCoy. For this project, you can consider her my Number One. I’ve known Ashley a long time. We met through our sorority (shout out to the good redz), but I soon learned that we shared much more than just that. We both love popular culture, we both love film and television, we both love fandom, and we both love critical analysis of messages. In dozens—maybe hundreds—of conversations, we’ve repeatedly seen eye to eye…except when it came to Star Trek. I’ve begged her, I’ve INSISTED that she had to watch Star Trek, and I just couldn’t get her to take the plunge until lo and behold, she texts me out of the science officer blue one day and says she’s in on Star Trek: Discovery. So, if Ashley, who is as non-Trekkie as you can get, could be all caps ALL IN on Discovery, which was the show that ushered in the second or third generation (depending on who you talk to) of Star Trek television programming, thennnn I felt like…we had to talk about it, and we had to do so as part of The TV Doctor. So, Ashley has agreed to be my co-host, my co-pilot, my second-in-command for Season 5 of The TV Doctor, and together, we are going to watch Star Trek: Discovery from its beginning in 2017 to its finale, which at the time of this recording only happened about two weeks ago. It’ll be the two of us navigating these complex and beautiful stories from the stars together.       

And so, with no further ado, allow me to beam you directly to Sickbay. 

[Musical interlude]

MF: Okay,  I want to start by talking about your experience with Star Trek, because I think mine is pretty well documented, but talk to me about your Star Trek experience. 

AJ: I don't have a lot of experience with Star Trek. When I think of Star Trek, I think of Chris Pine. 

MF: It's a yes to Chris Pine. 

AJ: It's always a yes. I loved the movie. And that's been my only real experience with Star Trek. And then coming over to your house. And it's just playing… 

MF: All the time.

AJ: All the time.

MF: Literally always. If the television is on, Star Trek is likely on it.

AJ: That's actually a fact. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually a fact. Yeah. 

MF: I mean,  I feel like I had tried to push Star Trek on you and definitely got no purchase. Like there was no buy in. You were firmly entrenched in your Star Wars camp. Not to, like, concretize the Star Trek/Star Wars dichotomy, because I believe that's a false dichotomy. You can love both. You can be fluent in both. But I definitely felt like you were team Star Wars, and I was team Star Trek.

AJ: Correct. 

MF: I definitely feel like in the conversations that we had, you showed very little interest in learning more about Star Trek. So then in class, we watched part of Trekkies, the documentary, and I felt you soften a little bit about Star Trek. 

AJ: By soften, do you mean you saw me sobbing? In the back of the class? 

MF: Well, yes. Yes, that is what I mean. I feel like you made room for a little bit of Star Trek in your life.

AJ: There was an actor who was talking about his experiences with fans. And how there was a fan who used to write to him all the time. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: And while it's not something that I walk through the hallways talking about, it is not a secret that I have struggled with mental illness. And when he was talking about this fan whose life he sort of saved just by existing within this world of fantasy and fandom, because this fan felt so connected to something greater and had something to look forward to when she wanted to go to conventions, I saw myself in that fan even though I didn't belong in the community and as someone who has survived a suicide attempt and the only way to normalize that is by saying it in a normal way So, there we go.

MF: That's right. 

AJ: Any time there's a community that says I see you and I welcome you and your life matters to me. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Okay, what is this?  

MF: So that was James Doohan, who played Scotty, on the original series. 

AJ: Not great for podcasting, but my face is disassociating because I don't know who… 

MF: You're like, “and that's fine.”

AJ: Whoever that is, he seemed fabulous. He seemed great. 

MF: He seemed like a very nice gentleman. 

AJ: Great. Good for him. 

MF: It literally doesn't matter. I think that was a little space cracked open and let some of what is beautiful about Star Trek get in and it reached you. Once that crack was opened, I had been trying to jam Discovery through that crack. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: And like, “This is the one that we need to be watching together.” Which you did not. 

AJ: No. Yeah. No, I did not.  

MF: But then you did. 

AJ: I did. I'm very much into Star Wars, but I thought I would really like to dive into something new. And I love something that has a beginning and an end. I love a complete story. So, when my analytics started pushing me the final season of Discovery, I thought to me, that's a, that's a signal that not that, not that it wasn't a good show. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: But that it made it to the end and there was a decision that we want to finish this story. And it can be really scary to start a show and not know, will it be canceled? Have I heard that season two was terrible, but hang in, will it be renewed? So it felt safe. And here we are. 

MF: And here we are. So, I got a text message from you that said, and I quote, “I started Star Trek: Discovery yesterday.” First of all, I love that you used its whole government name, right? 

AJ: Was there a colon? 

MF: Yes. 

AJ: Star Trek colon Discovery.

MF: “I started Star Trek colon Discovery yesterday. After the first episode, I was,” and this part was in all caps, “ALL IN.” 

AJ: I was shouting. 

MF: You shouted at me that you were in. And I wanted to throw a parade for you, because I was so excited that you were in. And so, you started watching Discovery and we are talking about it via text. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: And it was not enough. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: Like the text conversation could not contain the amount of detail and depth that we wanted to go into together, correct? So, the idea for this pod was born like immediately, right? This season of the TV doctor, because you were from the jump picking up on things that the show was trying to communicate and trying to share that were healing in a lot of ways. There's some non-healing content. This is television. There's no surprises there. But, you felt, as I have always felt, that this show has something important to say, and that people can be served by attending to this story. 

AJ: I want to be in the show. on the jokes of this show. It isn't enough for me to pick up a glass of wine and sort of awkwardly stand in the circle of people who are talking about something and chuckle, not quite know why we're laughing, but want to be included. I want to know why we're laughing. I want to know, one of the things that you had said was, “Did you realize that they were drawing a star?” I'm thinking… 

MF: The starFLEET… 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: …symbol. 

AJ: I'm thinking no. 

MF: You're like, still, I don't know. 

AJ: I did. Still the star. Still don't know.

MF: Right. 

AJ: But I love it when producers or directors or writers or whoever it is, is honoring the audience and the faithful by saying, “I'm going to just leave this little nugget here for you to pick up and enjoy.” 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: And I was still enjoying it, which is what makes great television. Anyone can watch it and it's good, but this could be so much better.

MF: Exactly. So, we are going to go through this show, Star Trek colon Discovery, Disco, if you will, not colon discovery, Star Trek: Discovery. And we're going to take each episode, both of us engaging deeply and critically, which is what we are both wont to do and coming at it from our different perspectives, me as someone who is seasoned and, admiral level when it comes to all things Trek and you who…you're, you're essentially a cadet. 

AJ: Oh, we're master and apprentice. 

MF: Yes. 

AJ: Yeah. I'd love to be an apprentice. 

MF: Okay. Well let's do it then. 

AJ: Let's go. 

MF: Okay. So, the first episode of Star Trek: Discovery is called “The Vulcan. Hello.” And we are before the events of Star Trek, the original series Star Trek. So, we are at a time before Kirk knew Spock, but not before Spock. And at this point, you're like, who's Kirk? 

AJ: He was Chris Pine. 

MF: He was Chris Pine. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Yes. In a different universe, but that's okay. We'll get to that. 

AJ: Yeah. 

MF: Yeah. So, I am dying to know, as someone who is fresh to Star Trek, what do we think about the opening moments? What's happening in this episode? We start with the Klingons. 

AJ: Listen, am I supposed to root for these guys? Are they Black? Are they Black-coded? Are they just non-white? Are there Egyptian ritual vibes, the wide noses of some, again, coming from this academic lens, I'm already trying to identify, Oh, are these the people that I'm actually rooting for? 

MF: So that's interesting. One reading of Star Trek would hold that human equals white, or European. And non human, including Vulcan, is othered, right? So, there's like, human is white, and then there's everybody else. And there have been plenty of scholars who have said like, “Oh, well, Klingons are supposed to represent this. And then this species is supposed to be that,” but the dichotomy of like, white/other is pretty well established. Klingon, in this case is very much othered. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: And you can see that. in all of it. It's the, they speak a different language. It's the way that they look, their cultural expressions, all of that, right? 

AJ: Listen, okay, the language is moist. I can't, and I know that that is not a word that we like to use. 

MF: It's a little juicy. 

AJ: It's wet. It is wet. It's what? 

MF: So,  you wouldn't have known this, but the Klingons in Discovery are a bit of a departure from what we've come to expect from Klingons prior to this point. They definitely look different, but they sound different. Juicier. There's more saliva present. Why? I don't know, but these Klingons are different. 

AJ: Okay. Well, I will also say, I didn't know going into this that they were the bad guys, because when I think of Star Trek, I don't even think of the word Vulcan. I think of Klingons and I am aware that you have a dictionary. 

MF: I do. I have a Klingon dictionary. 

AJ: So, to me, why would you have a dictionary of the enemy's language? You wouldn't. Right. I have just always thought of Klingons. I thought they were the ones that did the hand signal.

MF: Oh.

AJ: This whole time. 

MF: Okay. That's fine. 

AJ: So, imagine my surprise when they are maybe all men and giving this incel angry energy and they're hooting and hollering. They all look like dudes. And then Voq is the son of none. And how can you be the son of none? And are they all just angry men who maybe just need to get laid, but they can't. And so they're like, “well, let's start a war and the ancestors are the black fleet.” I mean, I was assaulted with the misunderstanding that I had about who these people are. 

MF: So, out of the gate, you're not feeling immediate villain vibes from them. 

AJ: I don't know who the villain is and I'm still conflicted candidly because of how they look.

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Of “is this who I'm actually supposed to be rooting for,” but that's been, I've been conditioned to understand that the person that you might have originally thought was the hero is the anti-hero. And so, who am I actually rooting for and why would they make them so tough for me this entry level person into this world to identify with when I can't even stand the sound of their voice? That's a tough ask of people who are not already invested in who the Klingons are. 

MF: It is. So we meet the Klingons. We're not quite sure what's going on with them. We learn about this character, Voq, who is the son of none. 

AJ: Son of none. 

MF: Yes. And that, by the way, means quite a bit… 

AJ: Oh.  

MF: …to Trekkies because there is a famous Klingon, one who has become quite beloved, who goes through a situation where his heritage is not recognized. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: So, when they said son of none, it's kind of like, “oh, they're building a bridge back to this character,” who again is quite beloved, but also chronologically doesn't even exist yet. Like hasn't been born. 

AJ: I was reading this text as child soldier. Son of none of when an army or a movement will take people… 

MF: Yes. 

AJ: …who are orphans or who aren't rooted in some sort of nuclear family and saying, “Isn't this cause attractive to you? You can be a part of my family.” Son of none to me was, “I'm looking for the dad that I never had.” And these are all a bunch of dudes who want to go to war. So, how can I become part of this family? So, I was just completely wrong. 

MF: No, that's actually not completely wrong. 

AJ: Oh. 

MF: That's not completely. Okay. Yeah. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Hold that. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Yes. We'll, we will circle back to that. I love that, actually. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: So then,  we leave the Klingons and we are introduced to, Captain Giorgio and first officer Michael Burnham.

AJ: Yes. 

MF: First thoughts about Michael Burnham.

AJ: Thrilled to see her, thrilled to see her with Michelle Yeoh. I was trying to take in all of the exposition that was trying to tell me who she is and what her job is. And as a, this long word, this is the thing that I would do on this planet, 

MF: A xenoanthropologist. 

AJ: Sure. 

MF: Yes. Fine. 

AJ: Sure. 

MF: Okay. 

AJ: Sure. 

MF: Right. 

AJ: But what I understood from that, what they were signaling to me is this is a smart, educated person. Take her seriously. . 

MF: And once we get back to the ship, she is almost immediately put in opposition with Saru.

AJ: Yeah, I have thoughts on him. I have thoughts on him and they're not good. 

MF: And in the text messages that we initially exchanged, and I was like, we love Saru. 

AJ: We don't. He sucks. 

MF: And you were like, we do not. 

AJ: We don't. 

MF: And I'm trying to remember, “Wait, did, was there a time when I did not love him?” And so, I went back and watched and I was like, “Oh.”

AJ: What did you say before that?

MF: What did I say? I always loved him. 

AJ: We always loved him. 

MF: We're going to have to go back to the tape. 

AJ: The receipts. 

MF: Okay. I'm going right now. Because I thought, “there's no way, there's no way…” 

AJ: Everything he says is laced and dripping with attitude: “I'm just expressing concern. Yes, commander. Who are you?” I don't know what any of these positions are, but yours doesn't start with number one. 

MF: Well, yeah. 

AJ: So, you are at least number two, so what are we doing here? 

MF: Okay. Here's what I said. You said, “Saru has erectile dysfunction.” 

AJ: I did say that. That's the only reasonable assumption as to why he's such an asshole. 

MF: And I said, “You think Saru is an asshole? Maybe I've forgotten.” And you said, “Yes, he just had an entire conversation with the chat GPT of the ship asking how he can be a better leader because he felt threatened by Michael.”

AJ: Correct. It's giving ED. 

MF: And I said, “I love Saru so much, I named a plant after him and gave the plant to my mom once it was clear I was going to kill it.” And you said, “Shut the front door.” And then I said, “Spoiler alert, we love Saru.” And you said, “We'll see about that.” And I said, in all caps, “WE SURE WILL.”

AJ: Yeah. Yes.

MF: And then you said, “I can't wait to debate Saru.” And I said, “I can't wait to remember if I ever hated him.” 

AJ: And how did that go upon rewatch? 

MF: I remembered that I did not enjoy him as much as I have come to. 

AJ: Yeah. Okay. 

MF: All right. Yeah. No, I did recognize that Saru in the beginning was positioned as an adversary for Michael. Like, we could tell from the very beginning that the two of them fought like siblings. 

AJ: Yeah. 

MF: And you could definitely tell that he was threatened. Not to invoke the word “threat” so early. But we could tell that he was very much threatened by Michael. Probably both professionally and personally.

AJ: Lame. 

MF: But that I think it's a testament to the character that I have come to appreciate him as much as I do. 

AJ: I had never heard of a Kelpien before. This is new, but I'm with it because why not? 

MF: Kelpiens are not a Star Trek thing until Discovery. 

AJ: Oh, okay.

MF: This is a brand new species. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: So, we are learning and hating Saru together. 

MF: Together. Yes. Yes. Yes. YOU’RE hating him. 

AJ: I'm hating him. I am. And so I'm very eager to find out when we start to like him. 

MF: When do we start to root for Saru? 

AJ: I'd love to name a plant after him, but right now if I did it would be because I would love to just watch it die. 

MF: Take it out. 

AJ: Yeah. 

MF: So,  I love Saru. I'm gonna leave him for a second. Michael is also giving us little hints into her character. I feel like in the early parts of the episode, she's giving us, “I was trained and I was raised by Vulcans.” So, she's, been with Georgiou for seven years. Before that, she was in Starfleet Academy. So, it's been many years that she has been off Vulcan. But then the episode doesn't take too long before it starts to show us, “Yeah, she was raised by Vulcans, but she's still very much human.” And so, she, when she goes in the suit to go explore, what we find out is the Klingon ship, right? When she's out there, she says a line: “I wish you could see what I'm seeing. It is sublime.” 

AJ: “It is sublime.” I have that same quote in my notes. 

MF: My favorite understanding of this term sublime is that it is something that could be so ugly it's beautiful.

AJ: Yeah. 

MF: And I think that kind of describes the way that I feel about Star Trek in general. It is sublime. It's so ugly, including the Klingons and their juicy way of talking to each other, including Saru, including origins that were well intentioned, but ultimately grounded in white supremacy. Um, it's so ugly that there's beauty there. So, her use of that term sublime, I was just like, “Mwah.”

AJ: I also have chef's kiss. 

MF: Yes. 

AJ: “I wish you could see what I am seeing. It is sublime.” Yes. And even that, I would have said “It's sublime.” 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Even the “it is,” which I did, I have picked up, you know? “Do not” instead of “don't”: I have picked up on some of that. I don't know if that's a Vulcan thing, but yeah. It is sublime, was sublime. 

MF: Was sublime.

AJ: And I was in. I was in, I was in. 

MF: Words mean things.

AJ: I can see what you're seeing!

MF: Words matter. Yeah. So, we're jumping all over the place, but it's fine. Back on the Klingon ship, they have received their Klingon brother who has died. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: Right? Because Michael has killed him. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: Accidentally, but she's just that much of a badass that she's like, “Ooh, sorry, I was just trying to get out of Dodge.”

AJ: “Then I started a war.” 

MF: “I started a war.” Okay.  So, they receive him. And, T’Kuvma opens the dead Klingon's eyes and roars. He like screams. 

AJ: Was that even in this episode? 

MF: It was. 

AJ: Is that a thing? 

MF: Baby, that's a thing. 

AJ: Oh!

MF: So, the Klingons, that's one of the things that they do when a Klingon warrior dies. They prepare the other side to know that a Klingon warrior is coming by opening the warrior's eyes and roaring. Yeah. And so, they did that. 

AJ: No, to me, it, it was just, again, contextualizing them as warriors. And here I am thinking that we're explorers. 

MF: Yes. Well, Starfleet is. 

AJ: So what do we, Startfleet. I mean, that, that's how unfamiliar I am. 

MF: You're like, “Oh, it's not Startfleet.”

AJ: It's not Startfleet. 

MF: It's not. 

AJ: So, it is, it is again, even tougher for me to identify with warriors when I am so excited about being an explorer.

MF: Right. 

AJ: And swooshing my foot in the sand is like, create a star… 

MF: -ish. 

AJ: …so that someone can beam me up. 

MF: Correct. Well, yes. Okay. You use that very well. Beam me up. Yes. 

AJ: I think it's called the Mandela effect, but it's where you, a group of people misremember something and I'll be damned if I haven't said, beam me up Scotty, which is apparently not a thing…

MF: Which was never said.

AJ: …but that's what I thought of when they beamed them up. Yeah. From the start. 

MF: Um, okay. So, we meet Sarek in this episode. Talk to me about Sarek. Who is Sarek? He's a Vulcan. We can, we can start there. 

AJ: I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. 

MF: You're like, “He's a Vulcan.” 

AJ: But I still don't know what a Vulcan is. I only know Spock. 

MF: You know Spock from the films. 

AJ: Yes. 

MF: Do we know in this episode that Sarek is Spock's dad?

AJ: No. 

MF: Not in this episode? 

AJ: No. 

MF: You don't. 

AJ: I, I don't. 

MF: But please allow me to tell you that the second that they uttered the name Sarek, the Trekkies lost their shit. Because Sarek is Spock's dad. Yeah. So, when we figure out that Michael Burnham and Sarek have a bond, like, we don't know in this episode that she was his adopted daughter.

AJ: We do, but we don't. I don't think we know that yet. 

MF: But we do know that they know each other because she reaches out to him on a private channel. 

AJ: Correct. 

MF: So, if she's got his number, like, saved in her phone, they know each other well. Which means there's no way she doesn't know Spock. So, the fact that we who know and love Spock, we've never heard of Michael Burnham? We're like, “What the fuck is going on,” right? Like, the revelation that Michael Burnham is Spock's sister is mind blowing. We all lost ourselves. That Spock has a sister, and she's a Black woman. Excuse me.

AJ: And was this good, or was it…? 

MF: It depends on how racist you are. 

AJ: Because a similar situation has happened in Star Wars as they've tried to fill in the gaps in between the prequels and the sequels. Okay, so we're introduced to people like the Mandalorian, we’re introduced to Grogu or as some people call him baby Yoda.

MF: Baby Yoda. 

AJ: Ahsoka. 

MF: Is that offensive? By the way? Baby Yoda? 

AJ: Well, sort of. Yeah. He's not. 

MF: That's not his name. 

AJ: Correct. 

MF: He's actually not. 

AJ: Correct. And Yoda is not, 

MF: Yoda is a whole other person. 

AJ: It's a person. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Correct. We meet Ahsoka… 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: …who is Anakin's Padawan. And so, a Black woman. 

MF: Yeah. Well, Black-ish? Black coded? Of color? 

AJ: Of color. A woman. 

MF: Okay. 

AJ: Even just being a woman. 

MF: Sure. 

AJ: You know, some of the fan base thought, “Well, we've never heard of her. And so how can you just introduce someone who is completely absent from the sequel trilogy?” 

MF: It's that. 

AJ: “Can we respect? We get what you're trying to do here. You're trying to find areas to have new stories and breathe new life into this universe, but can we take them seriously? Can we suspend disbelief if we know that we've never heard of them later?” 

MF: Right. 

AJ: “Can we still enjoy this?” 

MF: Right. You cannot have a more quintessential character in Star Trek than Spock. And what you've just done is given him, in canon, a Black woman as his sister. So, I love the fact that you were like, “Okay. I don't know who this is. I don't know what Vulcan means. I don't know what it means that she knows him. I don't know what it means that she was raised by him.” It explains a lot about her personality and the way that she reads to the audience, to somebody who does know what it, what Vulcan means. It means emotionally detached. It means, the embrace of logic above all else. It means you have gone through a specific training to where you still have the emotions, but you have control over them. But she is not Vulcan. She was raised by Vulcans, but she is human. 

AJ: I can't believe how different our interpretations were.

MF: Bring it, please. I want to hear it. 

AJ: From my perspective and coming from a political background, because I knew nothing about who Sarek was. The way that the show sets up her saying, “Can I have a moment?” You know, “Can I leave the deck? Can I have this private moment?” And then she gets on this private line and is talking to someone. I'm thinking, “Oh, this is a woman who knows people.” So, I'm seeing her through this lens of confident, utilizing her resources, having these special relationships that in politics you build and you sort of have in your pocket for emergency and sometimes discreet advice. So, there was nothing to me that signaled emotional or unemotional. This was very much a woman with agency who was tapping into her power and saying, “I need to leave the deck because I have someone that I can consult who has the tea, someone who has the insight.” Obviously, I know nothing about how foster care Vulcans are. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Spock. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Anything. 

MF: Yeah.

AJ: So, I'm ending, well, now I'm, you know, in the back half of this episode and I'm seeing her as this powerhouse, maybe even political operative, which  informs the character in a completely different way than what you are now sharing with me.

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: And that's wild. I mean, it's just completely, I know a different Michael Burnham than you do. 

MF: It's like we're watching two different shows. 

AJ: Completely. 

MF: Yeah. Woo.

AJ: And now I'm wondering, “Oh, who was Sarek? Is he an elected? Is he in a position of power somewhere? And he shouldn't be talking to her, but he's going out on a limb.” That's the way that I am now contextualizing who Michael Burnham is. Yeah, nothing about emotions, nothing about logic, very much cache. 

MF: So then let me hit you with this quote that Sarek says and I want to hear how that fits in with the way that you were reading this episode. So, in this conversation between Michael and Sarek, he says, and I quote, “When a civilization acts in opposition to its instincts, it may be under the influence of someone or something new.” 

AJ: That's politics. That's engaging a constituency that doesn't know how to act in their best interests. And so, they become vulnerable to someone seeking power who has a different power dynamic who can take advantage of this group to act on their behalf. So, I'm seeing this in a completely different way. 

MF: Because even the name of the episode, “The Vulcan Hello,” what Trekkies know as the Vulcan hello? Zero people out of all people would say… 

AJ: Zeros. Zero people. 

MF: Like zeros of people, zeros across the board would say that just upon hearing the title that “the Vulcan Hello” means “come in shooting.” 

AJ: Hmm. 

MF: Coming in guns blazing. The “Vulcan Hello” would be the… 

AJ: The hand sign.

MF: …the hand sign. Right. The emoji, the live long and prosper. But what Michael figured out, this strategy of “this is how you deal with the Klingons is that you come in shooting because that's what they respect” is logical. So, once we kind of get that understanding, we're like, “Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense for the Vulcans, if, you know, if that's the case.” 

AJ: They said hello in a language the Klingons understood. 

MF: Right. 

AJ: “Violence brought respect. Respect brought peace.” That's politics. 

MF: Know thine enemy. 

AJ: Oof. 

MF: So, we get to the end of this episode and we learn that Starfleet doesn't fire first, which ends up being a mistake. And they end the first episode on quite a cliffhanger. That brings us to the end of episode one, “The Vulcan Hello.” And so, we thought it might be fun, Ashley and I did, to do a pop quiz at the end of each episode to see have you, or have you not, at this point. learned your Star Trekness. First question after this episode, are you a Trekkie? 

AJ: No. 

MF: Okay. That's going to be my first question every time. Okay. Okay. How many Star Trek shows can you name? And try to name them in order. 

AJ: In order of release or in order of timeline? 

MF: That's a harder question. So, I'm just going to ask you in order of release. There's 11. How many can you name? 

AJ: Star Trek, no colon. 

MF: Mm hmm. 

AJ: Star Trek: Discovery. 

MF: So we, we just not going to go in order. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. 

AJ: Picard. 

MF: Okay. 

AJ: Brave New World. 

MF: No. Okay. 

AJ: Old New World.

MF: No. 

AJ: Brave New World is not one. 

MF: It is not. What's funny is that I know which one you mean, but I'm not gonna… 

AJ: That's it. Those are all, that's it. Next generation. 

MF: Stop. 

AJ: The one with the Black captain…

MF: No, no. Okay. This question is, okay. 

AJ: The movie with Chris Pine. 

MF: Nope. Goodbye. You failed. Okay. That's okay. So, you got the correct names of four. 

AJ: Look at that. 

MF: Look at you. 

AJ: Look at me. 

MF: Four out of 11. Okay. That is a fail. Okay. Working on an F, okay? What is the proper response if a Vulcan tells you, “Live long and prosper”? What are you supposed to say back? 

AJ: I do not know.

MF: Okay.

AJ: Probably “and same to you.” Sort of like, “Peace be with,” is it like, “Peace be with you, and with you”? Um, like in church? 

MF: No. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: No. I mean, there is an appropriate response. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Okay. All right. Who created Star Trek? 

AJ: Don't know. 

MF: Okay. Cool. What is general order number one? 

AJ: I know that.

MF: Let's hear it. 

AJ: Do no harm. 

MF: No. 

AJ: I know that. No, I know it. I mean, kind of. I know it. 

MF: But be, can you be more specific? 

AJ: I sure can. 

MF: Okay, great. 

AJ: Quote, “If we can get in and out without making contact, we can steer clear of general order one,” end quote. So… 

MF: So, what does that mean? 

AJ: It means do no harm, leave no footprint, leave, no, leave, no footprint. I'm close. 

MF: You're close. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: You are very…

AJ: I'm okay with being close. 

MF: You are close. Okay, here's one you should know. Name the Klingon Jesus. Who's, who's the guy that they like…?

AJ: T’Kalluffuh 

MF: Nope. Nope. Nope. That's incorrect. I'll give you a hint. It starts with a K.

AJ: Kalal. 

MF: No. 

AJ: Khalil. 

MF: No. 

AJ: Kalani. 

MF: Incorrect. Okay, we're gonna skip that one. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: And then, here's your last question for this episode. Name the Klingon homeworld. 

AJ: Klingon. 

MF: Incorrect. Okay, good. So, we're, we're batting, we, I don't, I don't. It was a great effort.

AJ: It's not fair if they say it in a foreign language. 

MF: They say it in Klingon. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: And, and about Klingon Jesus, they say his name a lot. 

AJ: And it's not Kalal. 

MF: It is not. 

AJ: Okay. With an apostrophe in the middle. Okay. 

MF: It is not. It actually is one of the few Klingon words that does not have an apostrophe…

AJ: Wow.

MF: …anywhere in it. 

AJ: Wow. 

MF: Yeah. 

AJ: Then I'm way off. 

MF: Okay. All right. Thank you. Fantastic work. 

AJ: Was it fantastic work?

MF: It was. It was for me. It was for me. It was for me. 

AJ: Okay. 

MF: Uh, see you again. 

AJ: See you soon.

[Musical interlude]

Okay, so boom. I hope you’re into it. I hope you’re excited to take this ride with us, because we are SO ready to boldly go with you. Before we go, we want to give credit where credit was due. Star Trek: Discovery Season 1 Episode 1, “The Vulcan Hello,” was directed by David Semel with a teleplay by Bryan Fuller and Akiva Goldsman, story by Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman, executive story editors Bo Yeon (Bowie) Kim and Erika Lippoldt, and staff writers Kirsten Beyer and Kemp Powers. And, of course, Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit as well for reasons that Ashley does not currently know but soon will. Oh, and by the way, it was Ashley’s idea (told you she was my number one), it was her idea to name the writers and directors for each of the episodes we discuss, and it’s a fantastic idea because we regularly talk a lot about the characters and the amazing actors who bring these characters to life, but we don’t mention the folks behind the scenes with the same frequency, and they too deserve to receive their flowers. 

That’s going to do it for this episode, which means we’ve reached the part of our appointment where it’s time for me to give you some instructions for what to do when we part ways, just in case you don’t remember what we’ve discussed. First of all, we’re in season five now, but that means there are four very nice seasons of The TV Doctor awaiting your attention. Go check them out, especially if they’re new to you. Go check them out again if they’re NOT new to you. Enough time has passed that I’m sure there’s some freshness there. Give them another listen, and while you’re at it, you should feel free to leave a fancy five-star rating and a glowing review. You would be doing us such a solid because having great ratings and reviews helps bring attention to the show and it helps people find us! Tell a friend about this podcast, and tell them to tell their other friends, and so on throughout the galaxy, or at least the Alpha quadrant.

And listen, we don’t want it to stop here. We want to connect with you on social media, too. You can follow me, M. Foss, on Instagram and Twitter at tee vee phd, and you can follow Ashley at ashleyjohnsonca on all the things. And if you need merch, you should know that we’re working on some fun new designs to represent our Sickbay aesthetic. You can find the link to the TV Doctor TeePublic store by visiting my website over at thetvdoc.com, so that’s thetvdoc.com.

On behalf of my number one and I, we thank you so much, again and again, for joining us here. Your support means everything. And don’t forget to tuck in your threat ganglia and schedule your next appointment on your way out, okay? Take care!