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Nick, yes, indeed, dear TRAPPIST, welcome back to what many people are calling episode 77 of the real advisor podcast, T, R, A, P, trap my name is indeed Lincoln, and joining me as ever in the digital studio of doom are the three other Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Alan, the storyteller, Smith, Carl, the voice de la voce.

Wiger, hello and the ultra heart, who, for some reason, doesn't appear to have his video on.

So I hope you're there, Andrew, and you're also muted, as are you.

Alan, right?

Gents, without any further ado.

Class, class, if you watch this on YouTube, it's a chaotic start.

Gentlemen, without any further ado, let's put a topic timestamp on this episode.

No, no, we never do that.

We won't do this.

Go straight.

First of all, to my good friend the right honorable Mr.

Andrew, saying half some more high

energy.

Review reads, oh, you nearly slipped up there.

Nicholas, I didn't.

You did.

Annoyingly, I have to quickly run off and work out who this review is from Ollie McDonald, five stars entitled, incredibly helpful, essential listening for those in the profession or not, you may not agree with everything they say, and that's okay.

I've recommended this podcast to several younger, new advisors.

A special overview.

Okay, fine.

Thank you to two of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Before Alan was famous, I reached out when starting my IFA firm four years ago, he was kind enough to give me 30 minutes over.

Zoom.

Anyone wants 30 minutes with Alan, just email him directly.

He's happy to help me on several subjects.

Alan introduced me to the awesome hum and dimensional a second.

Thanks goes to Andy for running hum, which I've attended since 2021 there I met my now outstanding employee, Luke, who joined me as a protection advisor, then trainee IFA and now a fully fledged IFA, and is crushing it.

Keep up the good work.

Back to you.

Nicholas,

I'll see also, I think, in on the slate that you put a link to, like a review site, reponic, that looks interesting.

I'll have a look at that.

So, thanks for that.

because you deleted it, Nick, so I've re put it back

that's detailed.

I can go through the Google doc history and see if the lead to that Andrew wasn't me.

That makes you feel better.

Okay, let's

put a topic just on that isn't that, isn't that, isn't that a good that's a good, good news story, isn't it?

Ollie there listens to trap, speaks to me.

I introduce him to hum, goes to hum, meets a colleague, starts a business.

All that this

is basically how this business works.

Yeah.

I mean, I reached out to people, went for coffees, went on a few investment courses, went to some conferences, met some other people, rocked up to Watford to meet Nick and you know, the rest is, as they say, history.

So, yeah, that's how it works.

It's a great business, very basically, business, very high on

networking.

And it's not, it's not the first time we've had a good news story.

Like, we get a lot of that down, which is lovely.

But I guess the point here is, you got to put yourself out there, too, don't you?

So you got to make yourself Put, put.

Make yourself uncomfortable, and good things will happen exactly,

exactly I've made my whole life.

Car will call, will give you all the time you need.

Email.

Carl, email, Carl, Allen, cc them both in on all emails.

We've got any track questions about anything.

Okay, let's put a timestamp on episode 77 of the real advisor podcast track with some topical tidbits.

Watch lead off.

Yeah.

So a star fund manager, fund starts to slide, no kind of tongue in cheek putting that in sorry, so yeah, ironically, or maybe very predictably, when as soon as Warren Buffett announced he was stepping down as the head honcho in Berkshire Hathaway, the shares have had their worst slide in 30 years in terms of underperformance versus the S and P, so they've slid back over the last three months, while the S and P has kind of gained some of the ground that it had lost after Trump's tariffs.

So look, I just said it'd be an interesting discussion to have, right or just to chat about it, you know it.

We've often said, you know that that star fund managers, you know, they don't work.

We might mention Neil Woodford here.

He's probably the quintessential British star fund manager.

And there are others, too.

You.

And so is it all down to Warren Buffett, have we?

Have we oversold it ourselves?

And oh, Andy, is a huge fan.

Uh, Nick, what?

What do you think?

I'm a bit shocked that the share prices have slipped in this announcement.

How old is

Warren Buffett?

94 495, on

the 30th

The reason I'm shocked Ultra if he was 45 and out the blue said, I'm proud to retire.

He's 95 he could die tomorrow.

I mean, sure this has been priced in for a while.

In fact, he won't be around for another couple of years more.

I'm it's just seems a bit odd.

of August?

Yeah.

Well, they've had such a sort of over performance in the last, you know, couple of years leading up to it anyway.

So I think they were down about 15% so currently the share price for a single share is around$700,000 which, in itself, is insane.

He's never done potentially, he's never done a stock split.

At one point it was at 800,000 he wanted to never do a stock splits.

He doesn't want to encourage trading.

You can't just trade in and out of a$700,000 share.

You know, you've got to have a few quit.

So the turnover of the of the shares of the company is very low compared to others.

Anyway, there's

lots of other things, but yeah, isn't the a lot of this will be down to the fact that he very publicly, moved, I can't remember how much some ridiculous level into cash, about

it's the highest cash holding.

I think they've got the moment, mainly treasuries in cash.

Yeah,

yes, he's in cash, while the S, P continues on a tear.

So,

you know, the other, the other interesting thing that I read, I don't think it was in that particular article that I've shared, but in another one, was that this year is the first year in a while they haven't done any share buybacks.

So are they?

Is that message to the market that they think that their own shares are overpriced?

Correct?

So it's very interesting, isn't it, especially, you know, when you consider what Alan has just said about the cash position as well.

So anyway, it's just, it's just interesting, um, and let's see what happens.

Like, I mean, this is like, Alex Ferguson leaving Man United, isn't it?

I don't

think we've ever had an exit on this scale, but, yeah, it's a similar comparison.

Yeah, yeah.

But

really, thing is more of a process, isn't it?

It's all outlined and documented.

You know, you just pick up old insurance companies and cash generating companies and stick with them forever.

So maybe it won't be a massive change.

A little bit more complex.

I've read some books.

That's it, right?

Let's go on to the next topical tip here, which is me, okay, so I had a client interaction this what don't we know last week, everything becomes a blur, doesn't it?

Last week, this lady is she's taking a pay she's doing a lifestyle career change, which is great because I've been working with her and her husband for years.

And I've said to this lady who has a high stress job at the minute, you know you can afford, you can afford to take your foot off and do a lifestyle change and do something actually that satisfies your values a bit more.

So she's doing that.

She's taking quite a significant drop in remuneration to go from a highly stressed job to a job that I think she's gonna really like, but the package is likely to come in at about 110,000 pounds salary, and she knew enough to be dangerous, like a lot of our clients do, and she goes Nick.

I know about this thing at 100k but I've just come back from holiday, and I Googled pensions and salary sacrifice, and now my head hurts, and that was literally her email to me.

So we went through the thing.

And of course, this is it's there is this thing in the UK where once your earnings exceed 100,000 pounds, for every two pounds over that, you lose one pound of personal allowance.

So that at 1125 grand, 140 pounds, you've lost your personal allowance.

You're paying tax at 40% you're paying national insurance at 2% effect for the marginal rate of tax on income over 100k up to that 125, 140, point is 62% so I said to her, Listen, if you take a package at 110 that extra 10 grand over the 100, you're going to net 3800 and she said to me, well, bugger that.

Then would we'll do the salary of sacrifice thing.

So she's going to do that, which everyone does.

I put a tweet out about it, saying this is our tax system is is insane.

And by my stand, not I'm not the leading as big a storyteller, yet maybe I never will be.

But my side is this thing went kind of viral at best, part of 1000 likes and over 160 repos on X but the interesting thing wasn't so much my tweet, because this is this, this.

This fact has been around since 2009 Alistair Darling brought in this 100k cliff edge thing.

The interesting thing was all the comments I got, because normally on social media, as we're all aware, you can get some antagonistic replies.

And I'm as bad as anybody at this sometime.

But nearly all of the comments you are, I am, yeah, I am.

Nearly all of the comments were, yeah, absolutely.

I've got clients are doing the same.

The comments from accountants, comments from company owners saying, I've got staff who I try and give pay rises to, and they just don't want to.

They'd rather have time off and earn above 100k and I just think, if anything is indicative of the fact we have this productivity crisis in the UK, where GDP per capita is still not where it was before the pre Wuhan lab leak episode.

It's things like this, this crazy, perverse tax system and.

Um, you know, it's, it's just insane, and it sends out all the wrong incentives.

And if that 100k barrier had been just indexed in line with CPI, now, it should be 163,000 pounds.

So imagine how many people have been caught in this over the years and now just declining.

I don't want that promotion.

I won't take money out of my business.

Over 100k money they could be spending in the economy, right?

Money that would still be taxed, generating more taxes.

People just are not doing it.

So the sooner this thing is got rid of, I don't think it's going to happen.

I mean, do we want to talk about Rachel Reeves or not?

Andrew, well, I think it's a wider issue.

Nick, and you're talking about the income tax issue here, which is important.

A lot of end consumers also get confused when they go into the high rate of 40% remember, just keep it simple, above 50k and the 40% people were petrified of having, you know, a wage rise above that, because they thought their entire income would be taxed at 40% so there's this, you know, financial investing, illiteracy issue in the UK, tax is dreadfully boring.

Tax is dreadfully confusing.

But in the UK, especially, our tax code is just enormous.

We've also got the other issue of VAT.

So you've got people that are running micro businesses that don't want to go above 90,000 because then they're in a whole VAT pain.

I think the quarterly VAT return for humans under management.

No joke, I use accountancy software.

I think the last time we did, it was 470 pages for a quarterly vapor after a tiny business.

It's all automated.

It's every tiny bits of slices here, there and everywhere.

But it's just insanely complicated.

So yeah, it's, uh, there's messes everywhere when it comes to tax,

yeah, and something that people supported, that, which I wasn't aware of, because my son is way beyond qualified for this.

But if you earn a penny over 100k you lose all tax free childcare vouchers towards getting that childcare supporter, which and so if you've got to hire then someone to look after your kid, that's an enormous cost that comes as well.

So all these disincentive just stacked up.

And it's, it's like, you know the economists, they think we're all you know that they they don't understand human nature.

They think we'll just do they don't look at secondary consequences.

These, these Treasury consequences.

These, these Treasury people,

that's exactly what I was going to say.

Yeah, it's the unintended consequences.

It's the knock on effects.

Just it's bizarre that they haven't indexed it at any level.

All of our old of our allowances

card haven't been indexed for years and aren't going to be.

But this one, particularly, if they 100 should be 163,000 pounds now it's not a massive salary anymore.

Really, it's not.

And do the credits not get indexed in each budget every year?

Because that's what happens here, is that they sometimes did,

but in previous years they've been, they've been frozen.

But Nick remember when inflation was double digits?

Imagine if that was linked to some sort of inflation figure.

I mean, it would just be an astronomical Yeah, but it

should be the link everything to CPI, which is really inflation.

It seems everyone shops at bloody Primark.

You know, it strips out everything that goes up in real cost.

But we'll go with it, even if the CPI should be 163k

yeah, yeah, interesting.

Well,

as the aforementioned, as the aforementioned, Warren Buffett's uh, historical sidekick, Charlie Munger famously said he was a big, big advocate of understanding incentives.

Show me the incentives.

Yeah, and these are all very negative incentives for people, for

products.

Just to close on this, the UK tax code now runs to just over 10 million words.

By way of comparison, the complete works of Shakespeare come in at just under 1 million.

And you wonder why people don't know what the hell they're going it's client of mine.

She's bright.

She's super bright, driven on her game, and she just looked at this right five minutes, and her head was spinning, and she deferred to an expert, and when he wasn't around, she came back

to me.

So I think he's one

of the biggest in the world, isn't it?

I think Hong Kong is famously small.

Yeah, it's tiny.

It's 250,000 words.

Ours is 10 million.

Is just 150 pages.

I mean, good and growing.

Oh, my God.

Some of it goes back 1000 years.

They've got all sorts of weird taxes that have never applied.

Honestly, it applies to silver coins and gold coins or something those windows,

literally, yeah, yeah, anything, yeah, takings from pilgrimages and found on boats, crusades, crusades, you get a five shilling exemption, right?

Move on.

It just doesn't, for me, just doesn't seem like a very progressive kind of culture is terribly

progressive column.

That's the problem with the problem, right?

What's the talking

of progress?

Yes, talking.

I just wanted to just briefly, very briefly, uh, mention the fact that there has been, uh, so there's been progress on the cryptocurrency investing, or, let's say, specifically, uh, Bitcoin, the regulator is.

The UK has relaxed their stance a little bit, and as from October in the UK, retail customers will be able to invest in cryptocurrency, aka or Bitcoin, through a lesser known product called an exchange traded note an Etn, which you've got to do a bit of research to even find out what these things are, but they are a form of debt instrument.

But this is a facility whereby you can invest in, let's call it, invest in Bitcoin via your anything.

Do it directly via your pension fund or your isa in theory.

And therefore I'm imagining as an independent firm.

We've all got to at least recognize, acknowledge.

If you want to dismiss it, feel free to dismiss, but you've got to, like we're expected to do with all investments, provide a whole of market review all the investment opportunities that exist.

So just flagging it up that slowly but surely, Bitcoin is becoming more mainstream, investors will be asking you about it.

Quick.

Shout out again to a friend of the podcast, Dan Parkinson Bitcoin, if a if any listener to this podcast wants to learn a bit more, he's got a whole series of webinars and what have you, and there is a discount for trap audiences.

If you want to sign up for that, there's a link in the show notes for that and put the just put trap in the in the checkout thing.

So just want to flag that up before and move on, before crypto car gets twitchy.

Look, I think I've been consistent with this.

And look, the point I would make is, I, when we started talking about this, probably, is it a year ago, maybe even more, I was saying that until this becomes, you know, more in the mainstream, it's not something that I'm going to consider.

And I have said in the last couple of episodes, you know, that that's what seems to be happening.

It is.

It is entering the mainstream.

I think any advisory firm ignoring it at this stage, I would say you're ignoring it at your peril.

You at least need to know about it, and like you're saying Alan, you know, if it's available now and people are asking about it, well, you need to make sure you know, the ins and outs of it and how clients can invest in it, and what are the, what are the fees associated with?

What are the, what are the tax issues kind of going to pension fund is a straight about, you know, all the, all the various consequences of of a decision by a client, so, and it's up to us to decide, individually, I guess, as a firm at a firm level, you know, well, are you advising it?

And maybe it's an execution only kind of a scenario, but I think it isn't coming into the mainstream for absolute sure.

Yeah,

just thinking, just thinking this a little bit further through, obviously, when the detail is revealed, we'll discuss it a bit more.

But how do we see this playing out?

Guys, just the main players that we know going to enter it?

Are we going to see a shed load of money go to it early on?

I don't think so.

It's not covered by the FSC.

So we got a bit of a bit of an issue on that, on PI and things.

It's not going to be an absolute overload from day one.

Yeah.

So

I would guess, yeah, I would guess Andy, that this is the first, this is the kind of toe in the water I think, you know, roll this on 12 months, there's going to be other products available.

And I do believe for sure that, you know, a lot of multi asset funds, right?

The portfolio type funds will have some level exposure, yeah, cryptocurrency exposure, yeah.

I think that's the way it's going to go.

So again, if you're burying your head in the sand and ignoring it, I think you'll be left behind.

Well, I think that the UK usually follows the us several years later, you look at that Black Rock eye bit the Black Rock ETF, which is the single most successful ETF launch in history.

Black Rock, I'm sure, would love to launch a version in Europe, in the UK, when regulation permits, and if any, and if and that's just so that really is that's moving from an Etn, which is a bit out of our wheelhouse, I think, into a more mainstream provider, investment asset manager that we all know and are familiar with, with a product structure that we are more familiar with, yeah, and that happens then, you know, people are going to be asking about it, and it's a bit of a, I'm in a bit of a Charlie Munger theme as well.

Another great thing that he said when he was just he's discussing, you know, whether you, whatever your position is, understand your opponent's position better than they do something like that.

So if you are anti Bitcoin, yeah, understand.

And the position of the proponents, of those who are who are putting forward understanding better than they do, so you can articulate that.

And I think that's the whole point.

And I actually, I think our whole conversation through this has been pretty good, has been consistent, and Carl's has been a good point.

But we are seeing progress.

Things are evolving.

Remember, he says it, so, yeah.

Things are moving, and therefore you just simply need to understand the get out of jail card was, it's not regulated.

It's wild west.

It's nothing to do with us.

We're proper investors.

We're proper advisors.

You're no longer going to be able to hide behind that.

So at least understand so that you can articulate your position, whether you're in or out do your research.

Yeah,

and I'm sure we'll be taking it incredibly slowly.

I think since I've launched Maven advisor in 2017 I think I've made ero changes to my investment portfolios, as in, I picked the right funds and I've stuck with them.

So Making changes is going to be a very, very very slow process.

And I think it's the same for a lot of other regulated firms.

Nick,

I didn't play, and it hung so gone.

Now,

I think it's a good position to be in.

I've change my portfolios.

been the better it is that I chose the right funds.

No, I got

lucky.

I got lucky.

I choose Tom managers that I had

Andy, the ultra crop of Darren.

Andy, he knows about everything, and he can't be told anything.

His name is Andrew Hart, Andrew Hart.

Andrew a phrase that no doubt you're using quite heavily at the moment, of course, is not a yes, tambueno en todo como yo, yes.

Nobody is as good as everything as me in Spanish.

Great.

Thank you.

Good, right?

Let's move on to watch.

Is this the PE firms will be?

Yeah.

Okay, so yeah, I have, there's two interesting articles that I picked out here.

One is about, I'm sure it's the same in in the UK, that there's a lot of private equity firms hoovering up, kind of mid tier accountancy firms, and it seems to be, you know, the the way things are going.

So I think in general, perhaps some of the smaller firms are finding it, well, maybe difficult in the accountancy profession, maybe, maybe a little bit more difficult to operate because of regulation and that.

But, but I do know that accountancy firms kind of struggled to have an exit because it was like, Well, you know, what's the value of an accountancy firm?

And the valuations were much lower than what we will be used to in our in our business, because I guess they're not.

They don't have recurring income, per se.

Obviously, they have recurring clients, but they can't go for absolute sure Capital Asset Management is going to be a client of ours next year.

You know, whereas it's our business is much more sticky anyway.

There's a lot of private equity activity in in the in that business.

And this article, this is, you know, funny that we mentioned it already this.

This article kind of goes and talks about unintended consequences and and now that, you know, traditionally, these businesses were owned by partnerships, and those partnerships were liable for audits, etc, but now if you have new owners, private equity owners who are looking to drive profit.

After all, it's a, that's, you know, we all know it's a, it's a medium hold at best, you know, they're going to maybe try and flip it on.

What are their conflicts of interests around behaviors around audit?

And it wasn't calling anybody out.

It was just a general kind of discussion around this topic.

And I just thought, you know, is that, is that similar for advisors, you know, in our space, that you know are, is that fiduciary duty that you're you should be bound by, as in, you're acting in your client's best interests all the time?

Well, if you have a, if you, if you sell out to a private equity house, you know, is there going to be an issue around that.

And a little bit like the article, I'm not saying it is or it isn't.

I'm just saying it's something that, you know, people need to be aware of.

So that was kind of the first article that I that I picked out.

So Andy, I think you've or Nick, you've a comment on that before I move on to the second one.

Yeah.

Just interesting.

The thing you mentioned about Countess not having recurring income, just asking the three of the other members of the Track Pack, I pay my accounts and via a standing order.

I don't get, like, ad hoc bills or time costed stuff coming in.

I just pay them a standing order, and have done since 2008 do you guys settle with your account on the same basis?

Yeah, I used to go cardless and pay every month and would never leave.

I'm incredibly sticky.

Yeah, you're saying, Yep, same, yeah.

Okay, so they do.

There must be, there was obviously a degree of recurring, but not, this is not quite sticky, perhaps, as well we,

I guess.

Look, I always make the point we're banking cash, because if we have trail income coming in, it's like, it's just cash going into the bank on a regular basis, whereas this is a specific service that you're paying for, whereas it said it is different when you're just getting a percentage from the client's investment.

That's that's another day's work.

Alan, I know right in terms of how fees are taken by advisory financial advisory firms,

for accountancy firms, Carl, just to push back, they are focusing on businesses, and people are a little bit more loose when it's my checkbook, yeah, you know, I've got no idea how much I'm paying my accountant.

Obviously, if I looked at it one day, I'll sort of work it out.

But does that make sense?

Yeah, focusing on the business check.

But rather than Yeah, some checkbooks is a

bit messy, but yeah, everything, everything, everything, everything, tastes a bit nicer when you can run it through the business doesn't it?

Yes, correct?

Yeah, 100% but, but But look, I suppose the point here is that the traditionally, the the exit valuations are much lower, or have been much lower for financial advice or for accountancy firms than, say, financial advisory firms.

And you know, I know a lot of them are trying to consolidate, and people are kind of in for three, four or five years, and then they're looking for it, they'll get a lump of money now and then a kind of bigger lump down the down the line.

So look, it's just, it's just interesting, and it's just seems to be the way.

You know that things change, don't they?

And you know stuff models that have been there for for decades and decades and decades.

You know?

Well, you've got to be prepared for change and be flexible enough to go with that change, I guess, good stuff.

Alan, yeah, I'm

going to bring forward one of the comments I was going to make later on in on the on the list, which sort of tie this stuff together.

You talking about private equity going into and private equity going into and private equity going to every sector in every industry.

They look for verticals.

They go in, they consolidate, put a bunch of companies together, whether it's financial advisors, dentists, uh, accountants, whatever.

That's just, that's the model.

I would say, my overall view, and I've got limited experience, but by I do understand there was, you know, there's lots of different types of private equity.

Some are better than others.

Put it that way, but I want to just give a specific shout out to young guy called Max Sullivan, who's been, I've been sort of in touch with on and off of the last year or so, and and acknowledge Him, because Max has done a bit like Ollie in the earlier on the show that we mentioned.

He has gone and he was working for a large company, which was a part of a consolidated outfit that had been bought by private equity.

He has left to set up his own firm called archgate wealth.

Got FCA sign off, and he's done it through the he's done it through the valid PaTH Network, not the valley path, which Andy.

Andy is a member of, valid path for years, and apparently they've been brilliant.

So that's interesting.

That's some good feedback.

And you know, I don't think any of us would, you know them, I don't know them.

But anyway, so they seem to be a good firm for those who are setting up on their own an early stage.

And Max has just got that there's reasons why he could no longer work for this Pe backed organization.

He's not what were they

listed?

List them in extensive detail, absolutely not.

I don't even know.

But his view is that, his experience is that these firms are full of good people, but ultimately, you always feel conflicted as you're all you're kind of serving the PE a private equity owner, and not necessarily your client.

And I think that's the reality, that's what a lot of people are doing.

And we're going to maybe talk a little bit later on about some of these things, and maybe it's a whole podcast, or a meat and potatoes on this, because you get, you know, advisors who were working for a firm serving their clients, they get acquired by someone else, and you know, the agendas change that.

You know your rules, how you get paid.

You know, everything changes.

Nothing changes, but everything as it is, and then change everything.

Yeah, and I kind of there is this inherent conflict, because private equity don't do this.

They're not charities.

They're doing it because they need to be profitable, and they do have relatively short term but our standards, we're all long term business owners and investors.

Private equity, by definition, is a five to seven year model.

They're they're building a fund, they're creating more revenue and profit, which they're going to package up and sell on.

Again, that's how it was.

Very few of them are forever hold patient capital firms.

So there is this underlying and again, everyone's got their own experiences.

Of it, it sounds like Max, he was not deadly against them.

He just said, I just always, I felt a little bit conflicted, because we've got the way the business operates.

You feel that it's the ownership which comes number one, and your clients are number two and number three on the list.

It's just an interesting dynamic.

But regardless, you know, well done.

Good luck to you.

Max.

Great move.

It's a brave move, but it's, I think it's going to be the right one.

Do, early on.

Do early on.

Okay, let's spin it back then.

So can we segue now, Carl to your second point?

Yeah, and

look, maybe, bearing in mind what's just been said there, maybe this is a much more lengthy discussion that we should have.

But Ireland is seeing consolidation now, and I suppose it's building up a head of steam, whereas I suppose you guys are well useful at this stage, and there is some private equity in I just shared an article there with a Howden, who are not necessarily private equity in terms of their they're buying up some firms here.

Fairstone have been active in the market as well.

So how did the insurance company call

Yeah, yeah.

So they've

bought ifI firms, wealth managers,

yeah, yeah, for brokers, aren't they?

Yeah?

The brokers, yeah.

So they've bought up four or five this year.

Fairstone in Ireland have probably bought similar this year as well.

And there are other players as well that just aren't coming to mind straight away.

But look, I guess you know this maybe is a longer discussion, because I know from talking to some guys that I've met Rob Stevenson.

Would, you know, have have very strong views on some of this, that some of the private equity experiences are really good, and then there's some are terrible, and then there's probably the ones in between.

And you know, it's, it's in it's going to be very interesting to see that we were kind of sitting here in Ireland going, what's wrong with us?

There's, there's no consolidation happening here, and and it is starting to happen for sure now.

And look, best of luck to those firms who've taken you know that they've that it seems that most of them are kind of sticking around for a little bit for in terms of earn outs and that kind of stuff.

But it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

And I think that, you know, firms who are remaining independent will become, you know, less and less and less.

And maybe that's a bit of a USP, who knows, but it's just very interesting times, for sure.

And I know in our in our IX group, there's a lot of chat about this kind of stuff, as to, you know, there's a lot of players who are definitely interested in coming to Ireland, but haven't yet made their first purchase, so there will be more coming, um, and interesting times.

Yeah,

just a bit of housekeeping.

Nick, can you mute your mic where you're typing?

It's incredibly, uh, irritating for the listeners.

My question to you.

Carl

Everybody.

Andy was up late last night with his kids.

Andy is in Spain.

Heavy breathing, heavy breathing.

Andy giving me chips.

No, sorry, no.

I do have a question for those two players.

You mentioned fairstone and held and I believe they've got a UK base, so they've obviously sort of got an Irish division that's swallowing up Irish based, which would be the sort of European connection I'm assuming.

Are you gonna say, do you, do you think you're gonna see specific Irish, you know, Irish banks, Irish insurance companies getting into that space and doing that, doing a bit of a roll up and a bit of a consolidation call?

Well, any names?

I don't know if that's gonna happen or not, I know that that Sure.

Look, we were part of that kind of proposal a few years back, and it didn't work out various reasons.

I don't see the Irish banks necessarily getting into it, but, but, but I know for sure, because I've been contacted, that there are other interested parties trying to come, come to Ireland and get involved.

The problem with Ireland, the firms that that's a, I think Howden and fairstone are acquiring are, I won't say they're, they're not.

They're definitely not solos.

There's some really good firms i I'd have to say, but they're not, kind of, you know, they're maybe 500 to a million turnover kind of firms.

So there hasn't necessarily been, you know, big deals done when I don't want to be getting myself in trouble and making any, any, any firm sounding small.

But it remains to be seen if that's their strategy.

And I could see how that could be a really good strategy.

Because, you know, firms that don't have necessarily the marketing, don't have necessarily the compliance support, the back office support, if you provided all of that to them, Well, you know, and you had really good advisors.

Well, could that be a really good model?

I think, I think it is.

And it was something that I was thinking about.

Doing a few years back, and that's what, you know, what we were trying to do.

But it ain't easy.

And jamming a whole bunch of firms together, that's that comes with challenges, for absolute sure, and it's really it can be difficult.

Culture like is is a massive piece.

Yeah, I don't know.

Culture is a massive piece.

Okay, yeah, and getting like, you know, look, let's call a spade a spade.

We're all business owners, and we all think we know everything about everything.

And getting all those type A personalities into one room,

yeah, we can't do anything.

Example, we should hate all of you.

Yeah, well, the feeling is very muted.

Yeah, good.

Well, I got it in first.

Okay, let's try and tighten this up and tighten this up and move it along with this later.

Long okay, I've got a quick point, but I'm gonna just hammer this home, because it's, uh, worth bearing in mind that we're all integrating AI in some fashion or another, in some way or another.

We're leaning on it more and more every day.

And I just written a hatch tip essay.

I ran the copy through a Gemini, which is Google's AI, just to make sure the figures were okay, because I was doing pension stuff, and I'm, you know, technically I'm as deep as a puddle.

And Gemini AI was adamant that employer national insurance in the UK comes in at 13.8% which is wrong.

It's 15% on pretty much everything over 5000 pounds.

And given that superior data mine, it's not subjective.

It's in the tax code.

It got it wrong.

And in the forum that I run, that I might have mentioned tiny.cc/ifa forum, there's a forum, there's a horrible question about trusts and nil rate bands and potentially exempt transfers, the kind of stuff that makes you want to go and just just jump off a cliff.

And there's a debate going back and forth between all these techie and IFA experts who know their staff, half people saying one thing, half people saying another thing, because the tax codes are out of control.

And then one of the guys in the forum, Aaron gunning and friend of the show, ran the question through four different AI models.

Two came back and said, No, the pet does not reduce the numeric band.

The other two models said, Yes, it does.

So lean on AI, but just be aware that it's still, you know, it's not the bees and easier when it comes to facts, and that's where I think it should be strongest, because it's that's just a pure data mine of information that's out there in the public

domain.

So there you go.

I think, I think, until recently, chat GBT didn't have the correct capital gains tax so, yeah, it's littered with problems everywhere.

But advisors know that they're not going to, you know, absolutely rely on it.

They can use it as a guide.

Yeah, cool.

The latest, the latest, the latest.

Grok is now the leading the lead.

Interesting to run it through,

according to Elon, oh,

there's a whole lot of, there's a whole lot of

tests.

Yeah, they for coding.

It certainly appears to be like just way above anything.

Not that we, I mean, no, no, we don't do it Okay, so let's Ultra Metro Bank.

Oh yeah, this is, I think, somewhat interesting.

So interesting, sit

down and we'll

So there's a new bank being launched.

It's called Family Offices bank FOB.

I think they're calling it FOB.

It's trying to target they're calling it ultra high net worth individuals with family offices with at least $30 million or family offices with $100 million they want to attract 2000 of the world's richest families and clients there.

The bank is going to be domiciled in Jersey, again, for various reasons.

buckle up, buckle up.

Anthony Thompson is the main person behind this, who's launched two banks previously, Metro Bank, that came out guns blazing, but then had a bit of a fall from grace.

Atom bank, I believe, is a bit more successful.

So this is the whole private bank space that we are all quite familiar with.

Have a lot of clients that have accounts of them and various other things.

And every different private banks got its own, I don't know, focus.

So if this bank is purely trying to just do you know, cash management services and not always rely on the more highly profitable area of the investment space, and just charge correctly and accordingly.

For these bank accounts, I think they'll do they'll be very successful.

I had a call recently with another private bank.

I was looking to move them because I've just fed up with, you know, the main high street banks that always just asking me for insane amounts of information, for completely pointless things, and I just want to find a bank that just charges me a monthly fee.

But none of them do.

They say, No, we'll give you a free account if you, you know, hit this criteria.

Or what's the criteria?

Okay, you need to have this much cash with us.

How much does the cash pay?

1% okay, so me parking a load of money with you.

You're, you're, you're inadvertently charging me 3% of all the money that's with you.

So that's how you earn your fee.

I just want them to charge me a fixed monthly cost anyway.

So this this sort of banking services.

I think it's a bit of a gap.

If you can move around very quietly, Andrew or mute and Mike when you move around, thanks.

Sorry,

mate.

Sorry.

Um, yeah.

So it's this new bank that's going to be launched.

You're going to try and target ultra, ultra wealthy families, according to them.

So they're going to try and take a.

You know clients away from from the handful of private banks that we all know.

Uh, well, so yeah, that's that.

Alan, did you come across this?

I saw the article.

Have they contacted you?

Set up a new account with them?

No, no, I'm not there time, guys,

we'll follow that last one under someone interesting.

Moving on now to uh, Smithy, billions pulled from pensions.

Look, just coming back to the ongoing theme of governments not knowing what they're doing and not recognizing second order effects, this was a recent article which said, since the Rachel Reeves announcement that Inheritance Inheritance tax will be applied to pension funds.

There has been 5 billion withdrawn from existing pensions.

People are just starting, accessing their funds, taking it out, giving it away, which, you know, is, you know, entirely expected, I suppose, interestingly, this, this hasn't even come in yet.

Obviously, it's not due till what 2027 Yeah.

So we're still two years away, but people are already just diving into their pension funds.

And the other thing that was kind of when, I think under the radar at the time when this was all announced, was, yeah, we can kind of understand when crystallized pensions unused, but the funds which have been crystallized so people are actually kind of in actually kind of in retirement at the time, and they now fall into the scope, or potentially will do in 2027 but also any fund which is completely un crystallized, and you know someone who's 40 years old, miles away from retirement, that is now subject to inheritance tax.

So, God forbid, you get a dreaded disease and die early, or you or you're in a very unfortunate accident, and at that sort of pre retirement age, you're likely to have a family, likely to have children.

You may not be married to your other half.

You may be divorced.

Yeah, good point.

Yeah, never.

A lot of people, increasingly, you know, don't get married, but they are together as a couple.

So all of a sudden, you know, sorry to hear about Dad passing away.

Here's a tax bill that just seems very egregious.

Just seems very additional.

Wankers, and if mom or dad are a business owner, private business owner, again, it's all in the mix.

Private businesses all in the mix.

People prior to this were in an okay position.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's

awesome.

Yes.

So impactful.

Impacts are so people are withdrawing money from pensions.

And there's this bottom line, there's an underlying distrust.

There's an underlying distrust of the government anyway, and now the the average punter says, Look, I'll just forget about pensions.

I'm not interested because I don't trust what the government, this government, any future government, may do to pensions.

So therefore your you know, your aspirations, your ability to save and invest, and I suppose it is at some stage impacting financial advisors, if your clients are saying, Yeah, I hear that they can be tax efficient, efficient, but I don't like them.

Or, by the way, if I am at of a certain age, I want to just pull out as much as I legally can from it.

Well, that's going to impact advisors.

I'm hearing, if you're on, if you charge next venue, this is,

yeah, this is front and center all the time.

And it's really, this isn't, it's one, you know, we all like black and white things, right?

We like to be categorical.

And you did, this is so great.

The money being pulled out now, from pension to hope is by people in their sort of 90s and so forth.

They basically don't know if they're going to be around in 2027 anyway, but they might be, because the younger you know, if you're in your if you're in your 60s, you're only stripping money now, because only two years away, chances of you dying in you know, are remote, and things will maybe change in four or five years time with the change of government.

So it's really on a case by case basis as to what's the best way out now.

And Rachel Reeves is probably thinking, well, maybe they knew this consequence, and they'd rather have 20% income tax in the hand on a lot of these withdrawals than 40% IHT down the line, because they can fund today's grasping hand.

I don't know you boys

still using the old fashioned percentage of assets.

Fee model, you must be getting hammered now.

You must be really losing revenue.

Model, I've gone to

New it's called reverse value asset pricing, where I work out a flat fee times it by 12, 1% it's something that someone in London, brilliant, the other way round.

Yeah.

So no, it's very, very prevalent.

Come on, we were last last thing on the slate.

Storyteller, you got 30 seconds?

No, I need a little bit more than that, and I need to just find my notes class.

This was just, this was just a, this was a follow up to conversation I think we had on the last the last episode, which was to do with the SJP practice buyout loan model.

Remember that?

And we talked about, you underestimate the power of a dark side, right?

I think I just.

Just want to clarify something, because I happen to know an ex SJP partner who, shall remain anonymous, really good guy, him and his business, they have left St James's place, and they've set up an independent business.

And he just wanted to clarify something.

He said I was just sent me a message, like listening to the last episode of trap, Andy was talking about SJP and personal guarantees.

But Andy said they don't, they don't ask for personal guarantees.

This depends.

It's a complex area, but so he

says they do make you, they do make a personal guarantee on the loan, and we've known quite a few instances last year where they've terminated a business owner, taking their business away from them, handed out their clients, then tried to recall the loan in 30 days.

There's no way on earth I take a loan from SJP knowing what we know, and advisors need to be aware of it, as we don't want them to be in the same situation as others have been.

Now I'm saying that from a neutral standpoint, that's just that's the opinion.

That was the opinion of Adam Smith, not the opinion of the real advisor podcast.

It was just, it's the opinion of somebody who was a partner or, you know, a part of their organization, and he's just really flagging it up.

And of course, do your own research if you're going to take a loan, whether it's SJP or anyone else, understand the mechanics, understand all the aspects of it, because debts can be crushing, and if you haven't understand all the rules and regulations, if you've got a personal guarantee and things go against you, and interest rates go up and the revenue of the business goes down, and you've got a personal guarantee that threatens your family home, that's an issue, right?

So I'm making no other comment on that other than he wanted me to share that with the audience, so that people go into it with their eyes wide open.

End of story,

ultra Sure.

I think we should get someone on the show that knows this space very well.

Obviously we know Matt at Virtus.

So valid path for getting involved, valid path for getting involved in

providing funding for their

advisors.

And James's place has been doing it for years, and I know lots of people that have done it successfully.

There was also another post that came on LinkedIn recently, also quite negative about the SJP partner loan system that me and Carl picked up on, and they were saying how terrible it is that they're charging base plus three and a half.

Base plus three and a half, in a business world is is almost free money in this space, I've heard base plus 12 from other funders.

So yeah, devil is in the detail.

And obviously, SJP are a huge organization, so there's going to be hundreds, if not 1000s of these loans, hundreds, if not 1000s of these individuals.

Some are fantastic individuals, great business people, very aggressive, and others are not so great business people, and are going to be a failed financial advisor.

So there's going to be good stories, bad stories, but I think it will be great to get someone who knows this space really well, as I say, hopefully we can find someone that knows the Inside Out nuts and bolts.

I know Rob Stevenson does, but maybe someone else that knows specifically about funding for growth.

If a firm specifically around debt finance, I think it would be great to get them on the show.

So if anyone's listening that thinks they fit that bill, email.

Alan as usual, we'll give you a 32nd oom call.

Thank you very much.

Copy, okay, okay, so we've done the topical tidbits on the slate, good stuff, and we're at 48 minutes, but I can see someone is at the front door and it's not posting, so I'm gonna let this somebody in, because that can only mean that we're getting on towards the meat and potatoes.

So we're welcoming in

the door.

Guys

at the door, you've come in, you've waited at the door a long time.

Nice to see you.

Welcome in the guests from the Emerald Isle.

Carl, would you like to give your your fellow countrymen, a brief intro?

Indeed, I would love to introduce to everybody.

Joel Connor, so we caught being the summer months, we do something maybe a little bit different, and we said, why don't we get someone who could talk to us about looking after ourselves?

Because after all, our audience, our listeners, are all business owners who are, you know, really, really busy and trying to develop their business, and that's what we focus on all of the time.

So maybe there's an element outside your business that maybe you're not looking after yourself as well as you should be.

Now where, because we're obviously, we're evidence based investors, we're clearly not going to get on some the next best thing, or some quack who doesn't know what he's doing.

So my friend Joe O'Connor is joining us today.

Joe has lectured in the Munster Technology University in the areas of exercise physiology and performance nutrition.

Parallel to his academic role, Joe has worked at the European the world and Olympic level in athletics equipment.

Western and golf, but also the Irish listeners, working with all Ireland, winning herding teams of Claire and Limerick.

Shall I go on?

Joe was is an entrepreneur.

He's built and sold nices, and he formed coach pact in 2015 I am a client of coach pact.

I am the one person that he doesn't tell anybody that I am the client, because I am the poorest example.

But he genuinely has done great, great, great things for me over the years, over a long period of time, to be fair, and got me when I was not in a good place mentally or physically, and got me into reasonable shape, but he does keep reminding me that we have to get back on that old treadmill again card.

But Joe still participates and competes in triathlons and all that kind of stuff.

Anyway.

Enough about that, Joe, because we wouldn't get to ask any questions if I kept going on with your intro.

So you're very welcome.

And thank you for joining.

Thanks, Carol.

Thanks very much, and thanks to that as well for inviting me onto the podcast.

I'm excited to chat to you

today.

So Joe, I'll just start with a really, really easy one, right?

Because you you're familiar with what we do as financial planners.

So can you just tell me as an expert and as a PhD student in exercise, nutrition and all of that, what are the parallels you would draw from what say we do and what

you do?

Yeah, Carol, look, there are so many parallels, but there's two in particular to come to mind.

And when I'm thinking financial planning, I'm thinking words around compounding and cumulative.

And your health and wellness is similar.

It compounds over time.

It is cumulative.

Cumulative also, unfortunately, chronic disease is also compounds over time, and it's also cumulative.

And I think if we if there's a phrase I hear an awful lot from you guys, it's time in the market, rather than timing the market.

The same applies to us.

You know, it's a little often.

And if I was to take my spin on that, that phrase, I would say our consistency should be our intensity when it comes to our health and our wellness and our performance.

And sometimes we're sold.

You know, the dream of quick fixes and fads, and the reality of it is a little often, makes a huge difference when it comes to your comes to your health and your wellness, as it does with your financial well being.

So I put your your personal well being and your financial well being as far as terminology goes, as far as philosophies go, not that different at all.

Another thing we share as well though, Carol um, are our friends, our gurus and our social media influencers who will sell you the dream.

And I see this in the financial planning world, as I do in the health and the fitness, you know, with good financial planning.

And tell me if I'm wrong, guys, you're the experts here.

It's kind of boring and predictable.

You know, it's showing up and hitting that consistency.

Yeah, yeah.

High Performance health, high performance, well being is also the case.

It's it's a little often your consistency is more important than going at anything in any intense point.

And I think that's very, very important.

And there's one element that came out in the late 90s, the Dunning Kruger effect.

I don't know if you guys heard of this, that you know, the some people with a little bit of information, their confidence is through the roof.

But the longer we spend in industry and the longer we do this, it's not that we lack confidence.

We just know that it's not straightforward and it's not as predictable as that little bit of information we have.

So I think they're the two parallels Carl, if I'm being honest, yeah, I love,

like, I love the phrase, you know, it's so important.

And I, I'm failing with this one at the moment, cause it's the summer Joe, so I give myself a bit of a break.

But like they the consistency is the intensity, as opposed to going to the gym and going, right, I'm gonna absolutely smash that session.

I'll be back in two or three weeks time.

It's like you're much better off revving it back, but doing it much more often, I guess.

Yeah, I think

you're being a little bit hard in yourself.

Carly, like, because we spoke before about before about heart rate variability and resting heart rate, and they're things that we can just keep an eye in a little bit consistency.

And you know, y'all have busy lives, we have to get that balance right.

And I think looking back at some of the core cornerstones of our overall health are important as well.

And it ebbs and flows, doesn't it?

It does, yeah, like it's, I'm suffering with a bad back at the moment, but, like, one thing that you were encouraging me to do was, okay, set a goal that you can actually do.

So I'm on day 80 of 10,000 steps at the moment.

Most of those days, right?

It's a little bit like life, and it's a little bit like business.

Most of those days are pretty easy.

It's actually fine, but by Christ, like, oh my god, I have to go out at 11 o'clock at night and try and get the last couple of 1000 steps in.

But again, it's, it's, I suppose, setting those goals that are realistic and attainable.

You know, setting too high goals.

And I used to always do that set very high goals.

In terms of this whole area, and then not achieving them, and then you should have gone, oh, I just pack it all in, as opposed to keeping the consistency

going.

Yeah.

And I think social media, at times, plays a factor in this that you see people on, and I'm only really on LinkedIn, to be honest, and you see these kind of people doing extraordinary things, and how much of it is real and how much of it is actually attainable for the average person.

Yeah, thanks, Nick.

I hope that wasn't directed at me, you know.

And without going down any gray areas or anything, there's a lot of performance coaches in my field now that, you know, if you don't have your 430 gratitude session, and you have to do this and you have and you have to do that.

You know, a lot of this, I think, is, but have you ever owned and run a business and see where reality fits in with all this?

And I don't think they're very parallel, you know, yeah,

yeah.

Like, look, we have a man here who's in peak physical fitness in Mr.

Andrew Hart, and he's he likes his he likes his little quacks and that kind of stuff.

And we've spoken on this show before about mouth taping.

So just for example, mouth taping is, is that a is that a thing?

Is he right or is he wrong?

Well, I can guarantee you that it is a thing.

Yeah, right and wrong is a little bit more of a conversation we should delve deeper into

it's the correct answer,

Joe, you know, look, it's I, and you tell me it's you've got good responses from it.

You felt good and so on.

There was a paper published this year, a systematic review looking back over nearly 25 years worth of research in this area, it's inconclusive.

It's, you know, I'll just give you the title because I kind of printed it off, breaking social media Feds and uncovering the safety and efficacy of mouth taping in patients with mouth breathing sleep disorder, breathing and obstructive sleep at a systematic review

Joe, send that to me in an email, and I put it in the so called show notes, because there'll be a high demand to read

that.

Yeah.

In summary, some people get great benefits.

In reality, what I would say is, stand on a podcast and say, does it work or not?

I would say there isn't a lot of evidence that says it's work.

It works from a scientific perspective.

There is evidence that it can be dangerous for people with restricted breathing.

I would advise that it's delivered through medical advice, but I know loads of people who do it and find it helps with sleep and it helps with relaxation and it helps with mindfulness.

So I would, as the scientist to me, would read the systematic review and then my doctor

in my head with my marriage Joe as last night the lovely plan up, he went to the spare room because my snoring was so loud, yeah, and little things,

I've done a lot of things, but marriage counseling,

yeah, but, but look, I guess, I guess the thing Like so say that, you know, the 4am club, or four or 5am club, whatever it was, and I know Alan was trying to do a bit of that at one stage, like for me, that just would not work, right?

It just would not work because I know I need my sleep and I just can't function if I don't do it.

But a little bit, like the mouth taping, regardless of whether there are papers saying that this stuff works or not, find what works for you and if it works for you and you're feeling better, you know, in every aspect of your life, well, then I guess, keep doing it.

Jeff, 100%

and you know, there is a very good book there to find 5am Club, which encourages a lot of these activities.

And I'd be in like, we've got morning and evening people, we've got arcs and owls or larks and owls, but I would say if you are getting up very early, you got to double it back at the other side of the night.

You know, the seven to nine hours sleep is, is, is non negotiable.

But if you enjoy getting up early, and you have your rituals and your routines, and it works for you, as long as long as you're hitting seven to nine hours, I'd be 100% behind it.

If you're more of a later person and afternoon, I would say, get your seven to nine hours sleep and

do what works for you.

Yeah, yeah.

On that, on that subject, and finding out what what works for you.

I'm forever telling these guys the importance of being a corporate athlete, right?

But, you know, we always do what I just did there.

We always laugh,

But here's the thing I'm interested in.

Your take, Joe, because of what?

Because one thing that I've found works for me.

Now I'm just coming on the back end of about four to five weeks of calling, eating and drinking a bit too much, but I've always been quite comfortable, because my way, I've done do this every year in the summer, but I reset.

I have a reset.

So I do a fast, I do a long.

Fast.

So I've done longest I've done so far, 60 hours, 60 hour fast.

And I want to do a 72 hour fast.

So I'm not going to eat for three days.

It's be a water only fast, because I've found for me, it's not for everyone.

It works.

It really resets me and gets me sort of back in the one type thing.

So I'm not craving whatever sugar or unhealthy foods.

What's the research?

What's your own experience?

If you have got experience intermittent fasting?

but we have had that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Alan, look, intermittent fasting has been around for centuries, and you know, I suppose what some people have done is they've taken elements that they like and apply it.

I would say that if you are going into fasting, you should go fully into it and look at what the science says.

Dr Peter Attia, whose book came out last year, outlive and has done numerous different projects on this, is a big advocate of fasting.

And, you know, it varies from like when fasting became popular.

Again, it was like the five two where you would, you would fast for two days where you might only have, you know, four or 500 calories for breakfast, but, but it was kind of sold as eat whatever you want for the next five days, which would be totally contrary to what popular health belief would be.

And then the 16 eight came popular, where you would only eat within an eight hour window, and you'd fast for 16 hours and and then extended fasts over 2840 or 24 to 40.

Sorry, 2448 72 hours and variations.

A lot of how your body will adapt and respond to intermittent fasting of various types is very much dependent on your genetics, but also the existing health and lifestyle habits you're bringing into that as well.

And for some people respond really, really well, from a cognitive perspective, they find a much greater clarity for people who may be suffering from inflammation, and fasting can help, but we got to be careful there Andy as well, because the fasting is helping, because you're stuck doing the things that are making you inflamed, so you might be eating a high inflammatory diet, the foods and habits and routines that lead to inflammation.

So is it the fasting is working, or have you stopped doing the thing that's making you worse?

And it kind of goes back to what we were saying to Andy about the mouth taping.

If it works for you, there's there's reason to it.

There's seven key guiding principles of training that when you come in to study exercise science, it's probably one of the first lectures you'll get one.

Get.

One of those is the principle of individualization, that everyone is an individual.

Another is a principle of adaptability, that everyone adapts differently.

So an individual's adapt differently.

You know, you'll let as an individual, you'll adapt differently in a specific environment.

So there are many, many variables here, and probably one of the most frustrating answers anyone in any genre can give is it depends.

When it goes back to my Dunning Kruger, the longer you're in this game, the more it depends, because there are many factors to it.

So from a health perspective, reduced inflammation, from a cognitive perspective, greater clarity, greater focus, and many other secondary benefits to it as well.

And a third one is specificity.

Can I just jump in there, Joe?

Because, Alan, you've always said that, you know your your brain feels, you feel much sharper.

Is not one of the key benefits for

you.

Yeah, yeah, very much.

So as Joe was saying, it's a cognitive benefit.

Is that.

So I'm talking about there's two things here.

One is an extended, fast, let's call it 72 hours.

And then the other one, one I try to stick to is, is just a restricted eating window.

And I try to do what's called omad one meal a day.

So you just see, you just have one meal that sort of and see for me as well, because, and this just ties into running a business, and we're busy, if it's just so it simplifies.

It's, you know, decision removes 1000 decisions.

I don't think what we're gonna have for breakfast, where should I go for lunch?

Where should I go get a drink somewhere?

So I'm just eating once a day.

So that's and it took a little bit of time to get into that, but it's now part of a routine, enrich and I've dropped it the last four or five weeks.

Obviously, I'm eating about 10 times a day, but, but I know, but I've always felt comfortable.

I can reset.

That's the point.

I'm not down this path.

But let's sort of have a bit of fun.

I'll reset.

And you're right.

Carl, it is, it is, I feel sharp, and I do wake up much earlier in the morning.

As a result, I'm sort of leaping, sleeping, out of bed with a degree of energy and mental clarity and so and again, I've spoke to other people who say, Oh, I couldn't possibly, I couldn't go out my three full meals, three meals a day type thing.

That's how I operate.

Fine may not be for them, they might not need to find something else.

So for me, both health fitness, I lose weight and I feel mentally sharper.

So it works for me, and I'm restarting it just before we go to another job.

I've been on

your one meal a day, things, they start at 12pm and end about 8pm Ultra.

That's a long lunch.

Nick,

yeah, a couple of briefs saying so I believe the best diet is the one that you stick to.

I mean.

And.

Is just rounding on then about the 15 different diets he's had in the last 15 months.

So the best diet is the one that you stick to,

just 100 just one.

Pay attention.

Pay attention.

Just one.

Okay, okay,

okay.

The best, the best exercise regime, is the one that you stick to.

So many people come out with fatty diets, fatty exercise regimes, don't go you've not been to the gym once, and now you're going to tell me you're going to go to the gym 20 times.

20 times this month.

No, just start two times a week.

Like the best exercise regime is the one you can stick to.

Sorry, Joe.

My specific question to you, my friend, is, what's your thoughts on calisthenics,

almost to an extension of what you've just said.

Or, Andy, I'm getting caught up with the nicknames here.

Calisthenics are fantastic.

It's functional movement, and it's the kind of movement patterns that our bodies are built to do, if you're in good enough shape to do it, and if you're not in good enough shape to do it, come in at a level that you can do it, exactly as you were saying to Alan about the nutrition, that the same principle applies here.

And you know, talking about Dr Peter at earlier, he's got a centenarian decathlon, okay?

And I spoke to Carol about this before with Metis, and it's a great concept, and it feeds into the calisthenics.

Um Andy, because if these are 10 things we should be able to do in our 90s, okay?

And a lot of it is simple, basic movements.

So one of them would be, are you now, or in your 90s, able to get up off the floor with one hand?

You know?

Can you do that?

Can you climb force the flights of stairs with two bags of shopping within four minutes, little things like that.

And there's a few good ones in there as well.

In your well.

In your 90s, can you still have sex?

So whether that's calisthenics or not, we'll have to debate.

But my point being is having having that functional independence is very, very important.

And Andy, what I would say is calisthenics is probably one of the most fundamental movement patterns that we can have.

Because if you look at Bruce Lee, never lift a weight in his life, but was in fantastic shape, yeah.

So

if absolutely the best example,

well, for his movement patterns, it was quite good.

But if, if you're motivated to do it if you can come in at a level that is suitable to your current position.

And as you say yourself, can you do it consistently?

You know, like there's so much research out there of the importance of resistance training, yes, everyone should do resistance training, but people say no, because I don't like the gym.

Calisthenics is a form of resistance training.

You know, I was in the surf last night with my kids, just walking against the waves.

That's resistance training.

So, yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's what works for you.

Yeah, on that note, I've and I'm not, I'm not a big PE kind of guy, Joe, but I am.

I am doing little bits of stuff just trying.

As you get older, it gets harder Yeah, really.

So I've got a pair of dumbbells that are always in sight, so they're not stuck away in some gym remote Well, no, no, Andrew, you can we listen to your Pratt and you can listen to mine.

So they're always inside.

They're not just some remote room that I designated the gym.

They'll never open the door to they're actually in my office, and I've just got an idle moment.

I'll just quickly.

It's just having less friction, isn't it?

Less path to doing the thing, even there are small, incremental things make it as easy as possible for yourself to do them, rather than, as Andy said, you know, set yourself a goal of 20 gym visits within a month, which you're never going to do,

you know, and you've not been to you're not even starting the ballet gym.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

And 100% and I know I'm repeating myself.

It's, it's whatever you can do on a consistent basis.

Like, if you look at what the World Health Organization says it, we should be doing about 150 minutes of low intensity physical activity a week.

And we should do some form of resistance training twice a week.

You know, if that means just picking up those dumbbells, Nick and just doing a quick push, pull and press, you know you are doing resistance training the biggest limiter, limiter to our health and our fitness is inactivity.

Some activity is definitely worth doing.

I find most people don't do enough because they feel they can't do an hour, or they can't do an hour and a half, or they look at the guy down the road that's doing a marathon, and they're gone.

Sure, I can't do that, so I'll do nothing.

Whatever you can do on a consistent basis, is So, important.

And for me, the big seller on this, and my research is pretty much looking at all these health and fitness, nutrition, lifestyle habits, how they can improve your cognitive performance.

But if I could give you two big cells on this, okay, I was talking about the future, same as we do with financial planning, okay?

And I love that JFK phrase that the time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining.

So for most people, the sun is shining now.

But if we want to protect our future health, our future Well, being a little often is the key, because quite quickly in life, in your 30s, okay, your balance, your movement, you know, your muscular endurance start declining quickly, followed by strength, power, okay?

And.

Your aerobic capacity, they start declining.

Now is the time to stop the decline.

You wouldn't say to an investor or someone who's coming to you for a financial plan.

You know, right when you hit 65 we'd want to start thinking about your retirement.

You'd start thinking about it.

Now, I'm saying the exact same thing with health and fitness and nutrition and lifestyle.

And we're always looking with this oscillation between stress and rest and Alan, you hit the nail on the head.

You're quite regimental when you're on, but when you were off, you're off.

And that research isn't new, despite what our social media influencers say.

Some of that first research came out in 1908, you know, and it's been evolving ever since

Ultra just, just just a quick question.

Joe, on running, what's the data around running?

Mainly road running, pavement running.

What's your knowledge on that?

Yeah, well,

I was a scholarship runner, so it got me my education a lot of the time.

And tell me if I'm wrong.

Andy, it, you know, sometimes when people ask that question, or it's almost leading, is it bad for your knees, or is it bad for your hips?

Okay?

Yeah, yes, if you have a precondition that would have you know osteoarthritis or arthritis or degeneration through different sports over the years, yes, it's not the best thing because it's quite impact laden.

But for me, most people that start out running, okay, they run too far, too fast, too soon.

So it's okay.

Actually, most of the science, some of the elite athletes I work with, people are often surprised at how slow they run when they run slow, but then they're surprised at how fast they run when they run fast.

It's very polarized.

So I find running gets a bad name, because people who are not structurally prepared to do it come in too fast to to go too far, too fast, too soon.

I actually took a guy to Rome for a half marathon one time.

He's a winter guy.

Okay,

enough about that.

Yeah, and he

did great.

He was picked on the line.

Would you believe it a diving finish?

But I the mantra, Carol, if you remember, in our preparations, let's do what you can today so that we can build for tomorrow.

So Andy, running is very, very good for you.

It's very, very healthy, as long as you don't go too aggressively at it.

And I'm pointing at your head.

Head space is phenomenal.

I would say, back off with the seriousness with the running, you know, with so many wearables nowadays, people are obsessed with all the different metrics.

You know, sometimes just getting out and running in the forest or on the beach or by the lake or wherever you are is just for the head as it is for the body.

Let's see your your 10k time, my friend, I I'm So come and enjoy.

okay.

I'm tipping along.

Back in the good days I used to do around 32 minutes, 3132 Yeah.

And I was well down the field at

that that's a bad time, is

it?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, now in my mid 40s, and nowhere near that anymore, unfortunately,

headspace.

Am I doing a lot of walking?

Joe, which is low, I mean, the lowest of low intensity stuff, but I do it, and I think Carl is definitely done the same with on Tim Patrick on this, that you do it, I'm not doing it for to get their heart rate going.

If I walk in a Bristol space, I just do it because I feel way whether I walk, if I'm down, I walk if I'm up, yeah, I just get out and walk.

I always feel better for doing and I'm talking about like a 45 minute walk, you know, for just I think that's because it's not necessarily a match up exercise.

It's kind of overlooked and not an exercise pursue whatever you want to call it.

But to me, I find it incredibly valuable.

And it's one of those things that we are designed to do.

If you just look at the skeleton, the human skeleton, it is designed to move like we were nomads.

That's how we evolved.

Yeah, no, 100% Nick.

We're on the move.

We're always chasing the seasons.

That's our body is designed really well to be up and walking and be active.

It's not designed very well to be sitting down all day.

I'm at a stand up desk here and and almost Nick You almost let it as in you almost apologize, going, this isn't the best thing.

It's a fantastic thing to do, and the consistency is very rewarding.

Physiological benefits that low intensity aerobic activity is really good for your blood circulation and for your health.

The cognitive benefits, and that's where my research is looking.

How can we do things to make the brain work better, whether that's clarity, focus, executive functioning, processing speed, all these things, Walking is one of the best things you can do for that because you're going at a lower intensity, that you're increasing your heart rate, just enough to increase the oxygen supply around the body, but most importantly, to the brain.

And we've often seen those, what we call fMRI scans, or an MRI scan of the brain.

And you can see the way the parts of the brain light up after 20 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, or 45 minutes of walking, as you do now, for some people, that's where we dump out stuff, and for other people to create stuff, but it depends how much has to be dumped out.

Okay?

And this research isn't new, either this, like a lot of you might have heard of, in the one, or being in a state of flow, my high cheeks in me.

High cheeks hit me.

High it was a Hungarian American psychology.

Just that, back in the 70s, really looked at this area of, how do I become more creative?

He's most known for creativity, which I want to come back to in a sec.

But one of the best things he studied some of the most creative people on the planet, okay?

And they had three things in common.

They were exceptionally good at immersion.

They could immerse themselves in a project or a task, really, really deep, so much so that they couldn't hear the phone ringing.

Secondly, they were really good at incubation, that they could go away from something and stop it.

Let's use your example Nick of going for a walk that offloads a lot of stuff.

But then the third thing that came was their Eureka, or their aha, or their their genius came.

But the genius moment only came because they switched off, because they switched on.

So for a lot of my clients that I work with in Coach Pat, they use like, they might be training for whatever, you name it.

They could be training first, like, I've one client at the moment training for Kilimanjaro.

So basically, when they go prepare for that, it's their switch off.

It's walking.

But when they come back, they have a lot more clarity.

And Carol, we spoke before about the whole AI space.

And is AI going to replace us?

AI is far better than any human at machine learning, so for the machine learning tasks yet, yes, but where I think we have the three C's, we can step out from the crowd, this links back to what you're saying.

Nick, I think curiosity, okay, which is a psychological trait, and that varies from person to person.

Okay, so that that's variable, but clarity and creativity are two things that are directly related to my research.

Like, if you don't have enough sleep, you won't have clarity, you won't have creativity, if you don't eat properly, if you don't stay hydrated, and as you just said, Nick, if you don't get out and get some fresh air in, you won't have those abilities.

So for me, in the conversation with AI, is AI going to replace us?

Well, it's going to replace a lot of things, but it can't replace a person's curiosity, creativity or clarity.

Poor lifestyle habits can inhibit all those three.

That's good, because all my life I've been told I'm very curious.

Okay, great stuff.

Yeah, ultra Your hand is raised.

Oh, no, it's not sorry I didn't lower it.

Nick, bad, bad behavior.

I'm just conscious of time here.

We're like, what are we?

Nearly 80 minutes in Carl, Joe, what do you think?

Should we continue?

Or should we can I

just, can I just ask one question?

Because I did.

I spoke to Joe about this.

So, so Joe's works with world class athletes, and I guess our our goal is to be world class business owners, to manage world class firms, right?

And it doesn't matter how big or small that might be, but, but if we, if we have that as a goal, so, so Joe, what?

What lessons our learnings could, can?

Could we bring in to our daily habits that you've learned from world class athletes?

Yeah, sure,

Carol, I suppose the term I would use a lot of the time, and my research is based around a corporate athlete.

And to be a corporate athlete, you don't necessarily need to be fit and healthy, etc.

You need to be someone who is time poor, working very hard, have a lot of demands, need to make a lot of decisions, business owners, business leaders.

So the parallels, and one of the main parallels I find with elite sports people is planning.

You know, as Muhammad Ali said, like you know, that he never won a fight in the ring, it was always into preparation.

And what I find is, if you look at an elite sports person or an elite sports team, two things that they'll deal with the problem that's right in front of them right now, firstly, but secondly, they'll almost project their year out.

They'll have a pre season, they'll have a pre competitive season, they'll have a competitive season, a peak season, a transition season.

Now, I lot of time like Alan, you met the point earlier that you were busy, and now you've been off for the month of August.

I saw your automatic email reply.

I loved it.

You know, I won't be around, I'm gone, and you celebrate that.

I think that's sometimes the difference between a corporate athlete and an athlete.

The athlete would plan and prepare and know that there's going to be periods of time where everything is crazy and totally like if you look at an athlete preparing for the Olympics, anxiety through the roof, stresses through the roof, pressures through the roof.

They have coping mechanisms, but they've planned for that, and they've trained for it.

Most importantly is they plan an off season, or a down season, or a deload week, like I'm working with athletes, and they train hard for three to four weeks and then plan a deload week.

Whereas the difference between a corporate athlete and an athlete, an athlete will train more than they compete.

A corporate athlete competes more than they train like every day is game day in the business world, or most days are game day.

So do we have habits?

Do we have routines?

Do we do we have coping mechanisms to deal with the pressures that come?

You need to be disciplined and you need to be strong on that.

I'm biased, but I have a bit of evidence behind it as well, that exercise is very, very important, no matter how little it's the consistency is important.

Do the things that work for you?

Nutrition?

You know, a lot of the time we might lean towards the Mediterranean diet, or look at the DASH diet, which is for hypertension.

These are two of the big diets.

There's a mind diet.

Which mixes the Mediterranean diet and the DASH diet, real food sourced, locally cooked property is usually what I said to people.

But what is the coping strategy?

Don't keep going till you crash and burn and have to stop.

Plan to stop would be my short answer on that card.

Yeah.

Great stuff.

Brilliant.

Great stuff.

Joe, really, really enjoyed your contribution to Episode 77 of the real advisor podcast.

In typical track fashion, I can't remember whether we agreed.

If you wanted to hang around for the remainder of the show, it's about another 15 minutes, you can shoot her off.

I'll put a link to your brand in the so called show notes.

It's entirely up to you.

Mike, my friend,

no, I would love to Nick if that's okay with you guys.

Yeah, that's no

we have to move on to the next section of the show because I can see the post ladies at my front door.

She's hauling up the bulging sack of TRAPPIST questions.

If you, dear TRAPPIST, want to leave a question, please do so via the pin, tweet on x, the index on tweet, whatever you want to call it.

Also, there's a link in the so called Show Notes to leave your questions.

We do get through them.

This question was from Gavin M, it came in in in January.

I'm not gonna open up because I've opened the letter up earlier.

Gavin M, whose social handle is at Joe Rogan, that's right.

Gavin M says, Love the podcast, guys.

My question is, do you guys do any outbound marketing now?

And what would you suggest for people starting up to get in front of people?

How did you start your businesses?

Wow.

I mean, there's about 15 meter potatoes in there.

We've covered this in different iterations throughout the previous 76 episodes of track.

Just quickly, whoever wants to go with this person, Joe, more than happy to have your input as well on how you market.

Do you do outbound marketing?

How did you start the business?

But anyone got any quick, pithy thoughts for Joe Rogan, very

briefly, very briefly.

I think it sounds like he's very early on in his business career.

So it's not saying I've got 500 client names on, you know, emails on an email list.

I now need to sort of nurture them in a good way.

So I'm saying old school, get out there.

Do business networking.

Join something like BNI, which is not great, but it's a good start very early on in your career.

He needs to get out and see people, talk to people, I'd also probably throw in there as well, set up a podcast.

So he needs to have a brand that's called something that's ideally the name of his business and also somewhat name of the podcast.

So I'm saying old school business networking and podcast storyteller.

There's there's quick wins, and there's long lead in time ones.

So this kind of networking type thing, you're not going to necessarily get a client next week as a result of that.

You might, you might get lucky, but you need to do that anyway, because you're building your pipeline for next year and the year after by building relationships with professional advisors, with local accountants, etc.

When we were early on, we did subscribe to the likes of unbiased example, because there you effectively, you pay for leads.

In my experience, the quality wasn't great, it was all right.

Wasn't terrible, but we got, you know, you just pay as you go.

Yeah, I can't remember what it was.

It was pretty inexpensive at the time, 100 pounds or something.

And we were, you know, meeting people who are actively looking for our services at the time.

And we got going, don't, haven't been on those platforms, or what's the other one?

Vouch for.

Vouch for, yeah, not, not on those.

But you know that that's, that's you've got to, I assume, if you're early, early stage, you've allocated a bit of a budget for marketing.

So register for unbiased register on vouch for get some traction, get some prospects in your pipeline, but also be doing the old school things, networking, going out there, shaking hands, making connections, because at one point you probably want to come off those vouch for platforms and have greater control over your own future business, as opposed to just getting inbound of randoms that you've they don't know you from Adam.

That's my two.

Penneth de la voci.

You've done a lot of work and paid a lot of money.

Yeah, I think, yeah, there's we've covered this in a good few episodes.

So I'd say, let's listen to the back catalog of trap, because that's a, that's a large question, that's, I could go on forever, but, you know, create great, you know, create content on LinkedIn.

I would say would be, would be a good place to start.

But, yeah, that's a that's a long and detailed if I, if I, if I just touch off, and now I don't think I'll do it any, any Yeah, just

pithy to to add.

Yeah, Nick, I think, having run two different types of businesses, I think the big thing is knowing your audience and not trying to please everybody.

And I'm sure you've covered this in previous podcasts.

But when I was in a commercial fitness business, I was very much about the community, looking for my 250 to 300 clients on an active basis, and really trying to create that niche of sense of community, and creating this is what we are.

You know, we don't apologize to people who don't like what we are, but this is what we are so that we get into the right niche in my coaching business.

Now, it pretty much works off referrals, because it's a.

Much smaller stable of clients, right?

And, and, you know, a typical client will tell another typical client that this is what I do and this is what I don't do, and I find that work.

So there's no outreach marketing at the moment.

But when, when I was looking for that community, the marketing was very much about telling our story, very similar to how Carol tells his story met us.

It's, you know, we don't apologize.

Our service is this, and we this is what we enjoy doing.

And it might suit you to love

it.

Love it.

As anyone listening to this show might know, I'm very much, you know, fitting or cough, yeah, basically, and fit culture is also wider.

So okay, that's great stuff.

Alan, if you could lower your hand please.

I've done it for you throughout the episode, but I'm reasonable to live we're going to move now onto the next section.

Joe, you'll go last in this section because I must spring this on you.

But we want you to think about one book you might have read in the last month, one podcast.

Listen to something, you watch, some piece of content, you consume that you've really liked, because this part of the show is what many people call culture corner.

And I'm going first in this quiet month of August.

This has nothing to do with this thing of ours.

It's not a story where the where the ending is unknown.

Everyone knows what happens, but the Titanic still captivates for various reasons, a bit ghoulish, perhaps, but there's a great podcast out called Titanic ship of dreams.

It's 14 episodes narrated by Paul McGann, who's one of the best narrators.

Very few adverts.

Each episode is about an hour long, and the whole thing is captivating.

You get drawn into this thing.

Such a tragic story, of course, as we all know.

But what you might not know from the film, which came out in 1997 it was a whole series of random events that had to go wrong, and it was just so unfortunate.

The ship shouldn't have even been sailing that time of year.

It should have sailed two months earlier.

If it sailed two months earlier, there wouldn't have been icebergs in the north of Atlanta and so on.

Atlanta and so on.

And there were other things really worth your time.

Just get out there when you're walking, when you're doing your 45 minutes of low impact.

But just just resetting the brain, maybe have something going on between your ears that's not your own internal thoughts and the many voices that we all have.

Well, I certainly do listen to the Titanic ship of dreams podcast.

My one is Anthony Pompliano, how to live an extraordinary life.

So this is, it's a really cool book I listen to it.

It's very short letters he's written to his two kids on kind of life lessons or advice for life.

And I suppose it's relevant for me at the moment, because the widget triplets are awaiting their leaving search results on the 22nd of August, and who knows what they might bring.

But it's likely that people will be flying the nest here, and it's a it's kind of poignant.

It's certainly different phase for me looking at that.

And, yeah, I also had my mum's 80th birthday at the weekend.

And, you know, when you when you look at things really, like money and cars and things, they just don't matter, you know?

And I thought, think this book is beautiful, because there's a few things, yeah, okay, they matter to an extent, but the most important things are not those things.

It's about family.

It's about friends.

It's about connection.

Well said, By the way, our lovely family photograph that you shared in our WhatsApp group.

Really nice enough Seagull with your own pairs of shoes, rather than the Scottish thing sharing hand me.

Thanks anyway.

Good luck, kids.

Good luck exams.

Storyteller,

by the way, Carl, I just have to point something out to you.

You might need to work on your cognitive focus, because that very book was one of my culture corners about two months ago, and you said, Ah, that sounds brilliant.

I think I'll get it.

I was wondering I was gone.

How did I come across this book?

The name Anthony pomplianna, did sound familiar?

That's good.

You took storytellers little lead.

Yeah, yeah, brilliant, sorry,

and I will, I will doubly endorse it.

It it is a great book, and it's, as you say, short, just anecdotes and tales and stories if you got, if you got kids who are growing up like we have.

My My contribution this week is quick and easy book to read is called the 1 million pounds one man empire.

It's by Charlie Hutton, 1 million pound one man empire.

Again, I didn't really know where I got this from, but I bought it and I read it on holiday.

It's a quick read, and I thought it's so relevant.

I'm not a one man band.

I'm not one man operation.

50% of advisors in the UK are a one advisor firm, right?

There's to.

Be clear.

So this, this is relevant to at least half the market.

But I would say even if you are part of a larger organization, you are a one man or one woman operator.

We all are, to some extent.

This is a really simple, effective book, and 80 to 90% of it is bang on, applicable to financial planners.

And just focuses it just get it.

Cuts to all the usual bullshit.

Cuts to the chase.

This is how to become a 1 million pounds a year revenue, human being, person in business mentioned it to Ultra.

You read it, have you?

You're reading it pretty good, isn't

it?

It's, yeah, it's really good.

I've read quite a few of these books in the past, because I'm sort of in this space.

I'm halfway asleep.

Is is?

It's brilliant.

It is very relevant to financial advisors.

And, yeah, he's also got a good email newsletter.

It is very much straight talking, but mentions all the right things.

It's things that we've mentioned already on the podcast.

You know, be ultra focused on who your audience is.

Offer one simple service.

Don't make it high friction in terms of charging like just all the all the stuff that advisors struggle with.

So, yeah, do buy this book?

This one, it's 199

Kindles.

I just bought it.

Right?

Ultra for our guest.

Okay, right.

Mike Ultra corner is the LEX Fridman show, podcast, YouTube.

He's got Demis habibus, who is the founder of Deep Mind, who got, which got bought by Google, and Demis is one of the smartest AI thinkers in the world.

He's very high up in Google AI.

He's a London boy, a chess protege, incredibly smart human being.

I love listening to him, so do check it out.

That's my recommendation, right?

You, Joe.

Joe O'Connor,

Thanks, Nick.

Um, one book that I was recommended to me an awful lot, that I eventually read, and I was a little bit apprehensive about it was but from Bronnie Ware, and it was death to Five Regrets of the Dying, which sounds a little bit morbid, but it's a it's an excellent read.

It's not my typical read, but I really, really enjoyed it, and it put me in focus from a as a parent, as a partner, as a business owner, as an academic.

It just says what really matters, that if you only had 24 hours left, what would matter?

And I find it really, really good.

And I suppose a lot of my reading is around my research, so it's, it's in that field, but that's one book that I think is transferable to everyone

still, for your for your PhD that you're doing, you're doing a bit of research, how can we help?

And to all the guys in the calls and all the listeners, I'm looking at C suite executives and business leaders and how their health, fitness, nutrition and lifestyle habits can influence their cognitive performance, as we said already today, but I couldn't get to you guys through a cold email or I couldn't get to you through a LinkedIn post.

The people I'm studying are very hard to get to, so if I, if you wouldn't mind guys sharing the link to my survey.

It's 20 minute anonymous survey, and it's a beliefs and values.

A lot of what we said earlier about the social media influence, a lot of the stuff people are hearing isn't what C suite executives and business leaders are actually doing.

And I'm really looking for 1000 business leaders from around the globe to tell me what they genuinely believe and value, and then I'm going to go into the research, validate it, and come up with a product that will quieten the noise on health and fitness and cognitive performance.

So if you guys could share that, I would be extremely Don't be great.

Carol.

grateful you send the link over, Joe, in the next half an hour, it will be in the show notes.

If you're 31 minutes, it won't be right.

Just fit in or

don't miss the deadline.

I'm on it.

Thank you, good

lad, good luck and the Five Regrets of the Dying as well as on Kindler 99 Pete.

I just bought that as well for living.

I've got I'm just loading up my Kindles.

All right.

Nice, joyful Beach, beach reading.

Okay, well, I think dear TRAPPIST, that is the end of the show, as episode 77 comes to an end and slides down the U bend of Father Time.

Thank you, dear TRAPPIST, for your support, your input into the show.

Please do leave a review on whatever app lets you do that.

It's obviously, normally iTunes, but some of the Android some of the Android apps are letting you leave reviews.

Now, six out of five stars is mandatory.

Thanks, Joe O'Connor, for your time today.

I really enjoyed that something a bit different, something a bit left field, but it's relevant to all of us business owners.

We're carrying our stresses and strains in our own different ways.

So until the next time, dear Trappists, we'll see you on the other side, take care of there and goodbye.

That was good.

The guest was a bit weak, wouldn't he?

Absolutely you?