That position.

As intimacy coordinator.

I've been certified and trained to make sure that the performers feel safe in a sex scene or in a nudity scene.

You know there's a lot that goes into that.

I also do some choreography around it, which is so fun.

So it's almost like what a stunt coordinator is to stunts which, if you think about everything you've ever watched, how was this never a thing on sets before?

That's crazy.

Some of the things I've seen through the decades.

It's like smiling.

Never let that crown tear, she stays thriving.

That's it.

That's all.

That's it.

That's all, that's it.

That's all, that's it.

That's all.

Is that really it, though?

What up, what up?

What up?

Welcome to.

That's it.

That's All.

Y'all know me, kasey, and today we're gonna have Erin Tillman on.

She's gonna, that's all.

Y'all know me, kasey, and today we're going to have Erin Tillman on.

She's going to be talking about all of her background and consent, sexuality, relationships, all that good stuff, because she's definitely an expert and, as you know, we're an opinionated podcast through the lens of black women and black creators.

I'm just going to give a little background on her.

She's going to do the most of it because she's here to talk about herself.

I to give a little background on her.

She's going to do the most of it because she's here to talk about herself.

I don't really need to do all the talking, but, um, she's a certified intimacy coordinator.

She's a sex certified sex educator.

Um, she's also created a consent guidebook that is easy to follow from over 30 experts establishing boundaries, respecting boundaries, all of that.

So let's just dig into it.

Yes, um, thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me, you're welcome you're welcome.

I just want to dive in ready to dig right into it, because it's such an interesting subject where someone can be like okay, this is something that we need to talk about and I'm going to be the one to talk about it and not only am I going to talk about it, I'm going to write a book for you to follow it yeah so, um Erin, let us know a little bit about you.

Yeah, yeah.

So, gosh, where do I start?

So I've been in, so I am a certified sex educator, certified intimacy coordinator.

First, let me tell you what that is for those out there who don't know what that is.

So, coming out of the Me Too movement in 2018, 2019, there were a lot of things that came out a la Harvey Weinstein, bill Cosby, like all these things on productions Right, right, right, exactly.

And so, funny enough, the industry is like, oh, maybe we should make sure performers feel safer when they're in a nude scene or kissing scene or sex scene on set.

So, essentially, that position as intimacy coordinator, I've been certified and trained to make sure that the performers feel safe in a sex scene or in a nudity scene.

You know there's a lot that goes into that.

I also do some choreography around it, which is so fun.

So it's almost like what a stunt coordinator is to stunts which, if you think about everything you've ever watched, how was this never a thing on sets before?

That's crazy.

Some of the things I've seen through the decades.

It's like.

I can't believe crazy some of the things I've seen through the decades.

It's like I can't believe they're doing it with no yes guidance.

Yes, and typically, like a lot of actors I work with are saying they're really excited that that's a thing because usually they would have to just figure it out by themselves.

Like somehow productions and directors and producers just assume that an actor knows how to fake a threesome scene or whatever the thing is.

It's like why are we putting that on a performer to figure out by themselves?

So that's part of what I do.

Um, I'm working, working on a couple of shows.

My first two feature films are being released right now and next month, which I'm super excited about.

So it's my first time in the credits, like I know, I know it's good.

So like how are you creating these things?

Are these based on experiences?

Great question, is it?

based on, like being around your friends.

It's like, hmm, that looks good, that looks cool.

Let me see how I can choreograph that.

Yes.

That's a great question.

So yes, so the other piece before I got certified a couple years ago to do that, I also I'm a certified sex educator, so I've been through a lot of certifications and trainings over the last decade around kink and BDSM, polyamory, non-monogamy, identity, sexuality all so many of the things yes, some of it is experiential as well.

I've been invited to a lot of interesting events and parties.

I have a lot of friends who are in the Burning man crowd as well.

So you know, partially because my interests have been varied and I'm very curious I also am a queer woman, queer black woman, which is a very unique experience being a queer black woman.

Okay, we can talk about that too.

We can.

We're going to do it, we'll put a pin in it.

But yeah, so many things.

But so, yeah, I mean I've been lucky that I've had access to a lot of spaces where I have been able to to observe and participate, and were run in to make safe spaces for people who want to explore their own sexuality and and learn so, oh my goodness.

So everything I do is not mainstream in a lot of ways.

I mean, you created your own niche, in a sense yes, thank you with within that.

You'd be surprised how many times people create their own niche and you're like wait, wait, we did.

Why didn't we have that before?

Because that makes a lot of sense.

So, when it comes down to like safety and consent, let's talk about your consent guidebook.

Because you know consent is key and I think that has been talked about out loud a lot more in the recent years yes, it has been obviously yes, um, let's talk about how you dove into that and yeah, yeah, I mean, you know it's also interconnected.

So funny.

I was talking to one of our mutual friends recently and we were we're both kind of starting this new ventures that are parallel and we're both like gosh, all these things we've done.

I've been in los angeles 20 years, worked in tv and film 20 years as well, and it's like sometimes you do like gig work or a gig and you're like just taking money.

You're like I got to pay bills and you don't really see how it's going to fit all together and it's like, wow, all the things I've done whether it was working in events or working as a stand-in on sets or wardrobe or just all these things pieced together and led me to this place Consent and boundaries specifically.

So you know, I've been very lucky that in my life I've had a lot of very strong women.

I've had a lot of really supportive men in my life Like more, like friends, a lot of really supportive men, friends.

I have had some unsavory experiences.

Who hasn't honestly, especially working in entertainment and being, you know, in different spaces where there's power dynamics?

But all that to say, you know, I just feel like I've.

When the Me Too movement happened, it was very clear that a lot of people didn't learn anything about this and we assume that everyone had sex ed or that everyone had, like, good role models or had, had, you know, parental figures that taught them.

You know, quote, unquote, right from wrong.

But that's subjective.

Don't do it, you know, or that or that told me that to do it right, and I was just like I don't want to be no.

I knew for me I don't want to be a teen mom.

I don't like these dusty boys, I mean.

Mean like I'm waiting for my husband.

That's when I slip me away, like I've always lived in this fairytale, like dreamland, that like clearly at 36, realizing that that doesn't exist.

But we're here now I can say I probably saved myself a lot of heartaches, a lot of STDs, a lot of stuff like that, but I get it.

So we're going into the role of creating that guidebook and you're talking about.

You had a lot of support around you.

Yes, yes, yes.

So these stories I'm assuming there were stories coming to you yeah, Giving you ideas.

Yes, yes.

And also, again, it isn't for nothing that I grew up with a lot of very strong women in my life who gave me a strong sense of self, with a lot of very strong women in my life who gave me a strong sense of self.

I'm an only child too, so I think I always kind of navigated things by myself and kind of had a strong presence.

Also, yeah, Dusty Boyz, I was always like I don't know, I'm worth my time?

Probably not, Are you?

now.

Right, and so you know, as I was.

You know I was a few years into the sexuality profession at that point, started off as a dating coach in my sexuality branch of what I do, and I was just meeting a lot of colleagues who had a lot of different takes on like consent and boundaries, and how they learned about it or didn't learn about it.

And especially being in Los Angeles, like people are living in a very in all different kinds of ways in a beautiful way, consensually, and so I was just learning all these, especially like being in BDSM and kink.

I feel like I learned more about consent and boundaries in that scene than anywhere else.

Like, like I'm putting in that bucket, uh, some of my sexuality trainings, some of my trauma trainings.

I learned more about consent, and still do, in kink and that is shocking to me and it's really unfortunate in a lot of ways, because kink is not, first of all, most people aren't into it or know what it is, and it's not a mainstream thing that everyone can learn.

So how is it that we're learning this fundamental thing from this like counterculture group of individuals?

So, anyway, that, to say, 2018 happened, I was like, oh, clearly people don't know about boundaries, basic boundaries, and I started writing and honestly, I was like there's so many times when I was writing the book where I was like I don't know if I know what I'm talking about, I don't know if anyone's gonna read this.

I'm also very aware that everything I do and sexuality, identity, everything's evolving so rapidly.

So as I was writing it, I'm like, well, it's gonna be obsolete in a year.

But I was like I can't let that stop me.

So I did publish it and I'm very proud of it.

Like you mentioned before, I have 30 other experts adding advice in the book because, again, like for me, like I I'm of the of the thinking that anyone who says that they're the authority on something, I don't trust it.

It's Me neither.

It's like right, you got to have a variety of experiences, a variety of trainings.

Because there's so many ways to get to Z.

Yes, Like you can start at J, you can start at E, you can start at whatever.

Yes, but it's very interesting that that's something that you went for because, like I said, like we, especially as women, right?

especially as black women right, Especially as black women.

There was a taught to like.

You don't say things.

Yes, you know you keep it, you stay strong, you keep it inside, you know you keep it.

And then, if you're in a black home, black southern home what?

stays in the home.

Stays in the home, okay.

You know, I just recently had, like this conversation with my mom about an instance within our family and I was like, no, that's their truth.

They should feel comfortable speaking their truth.

And the conversation was well, it's not going to solve anything and it happened so long ago.

I say it happened so long ago, but that doesn't mean it is not affecting their present.

Absolutely yeah, and that's what I don't think a lot of your, and I know understand why.

Yeah, there was a lot of like skeletons in those closets back in the day.

They weren't able to be open.

They didn't want to be.

We definitely have a lot more freedom.

Yes, In that aspect.

But it's like it was such a crazy conversation because it was also like bridging the gaps, yeah, and it was felt like, you know, I had to educate her a little bit.

Like Mom, you deal with a lot of your trauma.

And.

I'm sure that you would be healed a little bit more if you didn't live in the mindset of like I'm keeping it to my grave.

There's so much there.

I mean, like you said, there's so much with black culture and like we're somehow protecting the family to not bring things up or talk about things which I feel like does do a lot of harm.

And things up or talk about things which I feel like does do a lot of harm, and yeah, I mean like I feel like Gen Z especially, like I feel like I'm learning from Gen Z.

I think they're great, they're just way more open about stuff.

I also feel like we're in an age of transparency, like there's a lot happening right now in like entertainment currently, which I don't want to get into right now.

But you know, I just feel like there's so much enabling and secrecy and not even just for consent, like even for people in their own truth.

There's so many people who feel like they can't live to be who they actually are because of they have to conform to an idea of what you're supposed to be at 36 or 44.

Or, you know, you got to get married, you got to do the relationship escalator, meet somebody, get married, have babies, when maybe you don't want that at all or maybe you know, I have a lot of.

I do some coaching as well.

I also speak on college campuses and you know it's people of all ages and in all generations.

Really, I think we're in a place where people are really trying to find their truth and really live authentically without some outside opinion or outside pressure to do this thing.

We can't get into religion because that's a massive conversation.

That's a whole other conversation.

But that plays into this as well.

A lot of times for so many people you know, of like how they feel, like they're not okay or sinning or not, like gonna go to heaven or whatever the thing is?

was being a sex educator something you always wanted to be like?

Is that what like you went to school for?

Like you were like no.

I have an undergrad in marketing.

But no, I mean, you know, I, I, you know, I think about this a lot and I'm actually asked that question quite a bit, you know.

I mean there probably is some fundamental family, parental reason, or, you know, I was a late bloomer, like I didn't have my first like boyfriend or sexual experience, so I was like, oh gosh, like 19, which is late for some people.

Um, I feel like there's a lot like a lot of my educator friends were also late bloomers.

So I think there's something attached to that of like maybe we felt like we missed something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, like, later on in life, we're like, well, I'm gonna explore everything now, you know, and, and some of us to the point where we're like we're gonna study it and we're gonna get certifications about it because we love it that much and we're learning so much about ourselves.

So, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't ever a path that I, I thought I was gonna go down.

I mean, I honestly moved to LA in 2020, oh my god.

2003.

Um got into TV and film in various ways and then, 10 years in, I just there was just like all these like sets and productions I was on.

There were always conversations about sexuality and dating and how dating was so hard in LA and you know finding the one and, like all these things, wait wait, wait.

So I was just saying like I just I think I just it was like kind of a fun thing.

I started a blog before.

Blogging was a huge thing.

I started really old right now and like started like doing interviews.

I had access to red carpets at one point so I was interviewing celebrities about like like give like, if they're married, give dating advice to people out there who aren't married yet, and that kind of started a whole thing.

It was just for fun and at some point I was like you know, I actually want to like learn more like clinical stuff around this.

So that's how I have it okay, dope, dope, so like okay, so we're gonna go back yes, yes, dating coach situation what, what?

Like your stats, like, could you be a matchmaker?

Do you think you were that good?

I was a matchmaker Actually.

Yes, I worked for a matchmaking agency here in LA for a few months.

Oh my God, like again like eight years ago.

I loved the job so much, it was so much fun.

It was like, literally, I was like, oh my gosh, I found my calling.

This is before all the sex educator stuff and intimacy coordinator stuff, and the company I worked for was not a good fit.

It was very much heavily based on sales and, for me, at my at my core, like I really wanted to like, really help people find people they were in alignment with and like, not based on you paid Right, right, exactly.

So, yeah, I was a matchmaker.

You know, I I did so, matchmaker.

I started this blog.

At some point, I became a dating coach.

So, yeah, I mean, the biggest things I've seen in my dating coaching in LA primarily is that people aren't really clear about what they want in terms of identities, in terms of who's gonna make them happy or what kind of style of relationship.

A lot of people aren't aware of all the options either, though, because, again, we're horrible in this country about all this, I didn't know all the options yes, I came to LA I said you are what a hula wala like.

What does that mean?

yes, yes, I got.

I you know like I get the whole being non-educated about the different aspects of what you want and how you want it yes.

And the parameters of wanting it, yes, and if your partner is going to want it, so I definitely can contest to that, yeah.

Yeah, but it's hard and you know, and also it can evolve Like you know what you want in five years and that's okay.

But just having more conversations to normalize that you don't have to do it one way or the way your parents did it or the way your friends are doing it.

We have a luxury of certain cities like LA Atlanta could be similar New York where those cities really you can feel more safe and comfortable to live, however you want.

I come from a small town in Ohio where I didn't.

When you were asking like how I got into this, I didn't know anything about any of this growing up, none of it.

My mom is a retired professor so I get the brainy part from her.

But, like you know, I learned later being in environments that were are very open-minded and embrace you however you are.

That is very lucky.

Shout out to the people who live in smaller towns or more conservative areas.

It is harder and I don't want to just go find yourself.

It is very challenging depending on where you are and what your household is.

I mean, I grew up in a very I wouldn't say it was liberal, but it was a small town and it was very, like you know, upper, you know whatever.

And we were very diverse.

Yeah, and you know, I went to HBCU, yeah, in Maryland.

Yes so.

I was around.

You know inner city children that I haven't been around before.

Yeah so it was a different like there's so many ways to find yourself and like create a version of yourself that you can be proud of.

Yes.

And have integrity behind, and a lot of it does have to do with your identity and your sexuality.

Most of it is that I think.

I think, people get a little tweaked out because they don't know what they want or how to you know what I mean.

So, it's like, especially with children.

It saddens me to see the ratings of suicides go up because, a conversation can't even be had.

But if you think about it, is that these parents don't know how to have the conversation.

So we can't quite necessarily always blame the parents, right, because it's like you don't know what you're not taught right you're seeked to learn that's right.

That's right and it's scary.

It's scary for a parent.

Like you know, I'm not.

I don't have kids.

I can imagine I have a lot of friends who have kids and, like you know, they're luckily the people I know who have kids are embracing their kids choices and like them speaking their truths, but that's not the case all the time and you know it is anyway like there needs to be some level of autonomy that that kids can feel safe to express themselves, you know, without feeling like there's no other answer.

Do you ever give any advice for parents to talk to their children?

I don't have you been in that realm before.

I try to stay away from under 18 only because you know I because I do do work, that is, you know around, you know adults that are naked on TV and film sets and things that revolve around sexuality.

I try not to talk too much or with kids or have opinions about kids, also because I don't have kids.

I just I don't know if it's fair for me to, you know, have.

But if, if a parent did come to me and I've had some parents just ask like you know what, like what is out there, like what, what are some things that I could be okay with my kid exploring or do you have resources for my kids?

That kind of thing, I can give that but I don't feel like I'm the best choice.

I've had people ask if I could come speak at high schools and stuff.

I'm like maybe, but parents have opinions and if I go to a school some parents will not want me there and I'm not trying to open a can of worms there.

I don't want it.

That is true.

That is true.

So, being that you pretty much created your own niche in this field, what do you think your end game is?

Is there an end game, is there like a goal, to say, like all right, I did this, I created this, this is what it is?

What would that be?

Oh, my God, that's a great question.

You know I don, because I didn't really plan all of this either, but I do feel like I have existential crises, questions sometimes for myself, because, let's just be honest, this country does not value in a major way in terms of funding, in terms of money, in terms of pay, what I do.

I'm lucky that, being attached to television studios that you know we do have backing, there's a standard rate based on other other like crafts, crafts people in the business.

So I, I, I do okay that way, but it's like always kind of having to prove myself or convince someone that what I do is valid to the same degree as another consultant is, or those kinds of things.

So it's tricky.

So I think that it's going to depend on the longevity and how seriously we're being taken as sexuality professionals, as intimacy coordinators, how long I want to do this or how it's going to evolve, because I really I want.

I think that we all deserve some level of stability and there is some level of.

Some people in my life call me an activist and you know, no activists are rolling in the money.

That's all I'm trying to say.

So I'm like ain't that the truth?

so I'm trying to figure out like what, what is the longevity of this?

What, what is my truth?

like I want to also live a life where I'm following my bliss, you know, not just teaching everyone else to find their so I don't know now, would you like teach a course, like if somebody was like hey, I kind of want to do what you do.

I think this is important.

Have you taught any of those kind of classes you know?

not specifically.

Uh, do you mean like, specifically, like how to become or do what I do?

Yeah, I've not done that, but this is a great idea, casey, thank you.

Um, I know I taught.

I mean I kind of I feel like people reach out to me all the time and, like, when I quote unquote, pick my brain or, you know, ask where I got certified and trained for things, that kind of stuff.

But I've not actually put together a course.

Interesting, interesting, interesting thank you, we have time on our hands, all right.

So yeah, we're gonna play black heart revoked and this is the original flavor.

X better, bolder, bolder, blacker.

Okay, I'm ready.

Go boy.

Yes, Are you going to keep her black heart or get it reversed?

Hopefully I'm keeping it.

We're going to see, all right, where is the National Memorial for Peace and Justice, a museum dedicated to the victims of lynching, located A Jackson, mississippi, b Atlanta, georgia, c Montgomery, alabama or D New Orleans, louisiana?

Oh man, I think it's either B or C.

I'm going to go Atlanta.

It is Montgomery Alabama.

That was my second choice.

I would just always choose Alabama.

There's two states in America that I'm always going to think the worst of is Alabama and Mississippi.

Well, I'm going to say it's not revoked yet, because I chose either B or C, so I was like it's one of the two.

One of those states.

Okay, okay, next one.

The CDC says that black women are four times more likely to die than white women doing this Childbirth.

Oh, you didn't even have no, no, I know that one for sure sex educator.

I already know d it was giving birth, which is honestly one reasons why I I have not had kids, because it's why I don't trust.

It's sad that's people out here, that is like it.

yeah, that's a whole nother conversation.

That's right, a whole nother episode, exactly, okay.

So in which production did the iconic John Witherspoon say the secret is you got to coordinate A next Friday, b the Boondocks, c the Wayans Brothers, d Boomerang.

Oh my God, you know, I want to say I want to.

Oh man, you want me to read the question again?

No, I think it's.

I'm going to go with Boomerang.

It was Boomerang, yes.

You got the co-ordinate.

Yes.

All right, which?

This is too easy.

We're not doing that.

We're not doing that.

We're not doing that.

All right, you said you like the music one.

Yes.

According to DMX, there was Brenda Lilitisha, linda Felicia Dawn Lashawn Inez and who, oh my God, Shaquisha A, b Alicia C, teresa D, lisa.

Oh my God.

No, you know what I'm going to say.

B Alicia.

You know what I'm going to say.

B Alicia, you got it Okay.

She's keeping her card y'all.

Okay, I'm keeping the card.

This is going to be the last one, okay.

Last one Doing good, doing good.

Last one.

She got most of them right.

Yes, all right.

This is a funny one.

Who said y'all should take y'all black asses to Iraq and help fight for our freedom?

A Charles Barkley, b Ben Carson, c Justice Clarence Thomas or D, uncle Ruckus of Boondocks.

Who is A Charles Barkley?

He does say some things.

He says some things sometimes.

I think it's either A or D.

I'm going to go Wait.

Who is D, uncle Ruckus of Boondocks?

Okay, I'm gonna go D you did good.

Yes, guys, she keeps her card well.

Erin, I want to say thank you for coming on the show and sharing all your many gifts and knowledge with us.

I do, at the end of all of my shows, love to leave a message to the viewers, or maybe your younger self, about where you are at today and if they wanted to get into what you're doing, maybe in the future, what would you say to them?

Oh my gosh, wow, I mean I okay.

So I'll say definitely it's.

I feel like me and my colleagues are fighting the good fight.

I feel like me and my colleagues are fighting the good fight.

It's not an easy career because it is so new and not appreciated fully, but it's very fulfilling and I do feel like I'm contributing to something, a greater good, and just helping people just get to know themselves and also, again, safety, consent and boundaries.

To my younger self I would say buckle up, you're going to have a lot of fun experiences.

It's not gonna be easy, um, and but you'll find a lot of people who, who, who are in alignment and want to help you.

So have fun with it well, there you have it, thank you again aaron for coming on.

Thank you y'all.

If uh, where can they find you, erin?

Yes, yes, yes.

You can find me on Instagram's the best place at datingadvicegirl, at datingadvicegrl that's the best place.

But also you can find me on my website, erintillmancom.

All right.

Well, there you have it, guys, If you guys enjoyed this episode.

If you have any more questions and you're wondering what exactly is she talking about?

How can I get into this, Please don't hesitate to.

You know.

Comment on our page, comment on her page.

Like, subscribe, share, do all the things to get in contact with us and thank you guys for being here and sharing your time with us.

That's it, that's all.

That's it.

That's all is written by me, Kase Casey Carnage, and produced by myself and Rick Barrio-Dill.

Associate producer, Brie Corey, Audio and video engineering and studio facilities provided by Slap Studios LA, with distribution through our collective Slap the Network.

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