I've got Jess, my oldest daughter, on my podcast today.

It's quite an emotional podcast because we're talking about living with a chronic disease.

We talk about migraine, we talk about PMDD, we talk about side effects of other medication that may or may not help a disorder and how she's really built up and transformed her life by making lots and lots of different adjustments.

But also, sadly, some of the treatments that haven't helped her and some of the ways doctors have spoken to her as well.

So there's a lot to listen to in this podcast.

It's quite sensitive, but it's a really important conversation.

So Jessica, you're here in real life.

Yeah.

Last time we did it remotely.

You're procast.

We did.

And you had long hair, Yes.

And you might or might not been taking hormones.

Can't quite.

Remember, I think I was taking estrogen.

So I was talking to someone this morning, actually I've not met before, and I was telling her a bit about you.

And I hope you don't mind me saying you have, like, the cleanest life ever.

And it's got better and better in that you've never been bad.

But you really, really.

You don't drink alcohol, you don't eat processed foods, your natural fibres, everything.

But you've had to be like this because of your migraines.

Yeah.

And I always feel a bit guilty because I, I migraine is an inherited condition that I have given you.

I've given you lots of love, but I will save you any migraine.

And I was telling her about the year that you had, which we don't really want to talk about because it was horrendous.

But you have been medicalized and given medication, so many medications by different neurologists, different specialties, different.

Like you've had different neurologists that you've seen, you've had different chest consultants that you've seen, you've seen different GPS, you've had different types of medication.

They've been different doses.

Some of them have been given in an off label dose, off license use.

Yeah.

And you've also had hormones.

You still have migraines.

You're wearing your glasses because the light in here is could trigger a migraine.

So you're always really sensitive.

But out of all the medicines that you've tried over the last five years, which ones have made the best difference to your life?

Well, obviously HRT has well, the I, I feel like we might need to give some background to the people listening to the podcast.

Obviously always have migraine.

It's a genetic neurological disorder.

Does he said it's from you?

Like Sophie sometimes gets migraine and I have my migraine my whole life.

And it gradually got worse and worse until like when I was 16, started taking medication to try and prevent migraine.

And then it was just constantly snowballing.

And it led to what in lockdown just being bad bound for weeks and weeks with just terrible migraines and CC and those different medications and seeing the top neurologist in Manchester because that's where my school was.

And the neurologist just said this is your quality of life and you need to accept it.

And then came to London, just got worse and worse and worse.

Had things like medication overuse headache, was told I couldn't be helped and then I met a neurologist who was amazing and has changed my life.

But as you know it took a couple years and when we met him he took an amazingly detailed history and said I will be able to sort you.

It will take time.

We need to unravel everything during that process.

Had really severe memory loss and I lost access to my short term and my long term memory and couldn't do anything.

I'm a trombonist.

I can read music, had to interrupt my studies, I can paint.

And then at that time I was having like 21, I think, cranial nerve block injections every week for months.

And I had that, and I also had a treatment in hospital which reset all of the pain pathways in my brain.

And I made all of the lifestyle changes that I could possibly make for migraine.

And I was really interested in things like Alexander Technique and NLP, neurolinguistic programming and rewiring my brain and how can I elevate myself and how can I make the 1% gains to feel better.

And a combination of all the holistic treatments as well as all like the amazing work that my neurologist has done has led to now me being able to have this quality of life, which is the best it's ever been.

And I don't, I never fathom that I would be able to live in the way I do now.

And during that time with memory loss and child and loads of different medications and some being off license, not that that matters and some being licensed and you know, being given things like antipsychotic medication because that's meant to help for migraine Bacchi, it didn't help and we didn't know that.

But it's just terrible medication side effects.

Taking HRT which you notice that in during lockdown when I started getting really ill was originally we just took it because every month you realise that I was really depressed for like 3-4 days and I wasn't even aware of my cycle at the time because my periods were so heavy because so my periods were so heavy.

So I had a coil, so I didn't have any bleeding and we noticed it was my cycle started taking estrogen all of a sudden I didn't feel this flatness, but also I wasn't getting migraines that were triggered by hormonal fluctuations, which was life changing.

And when I was really ill and in so much pain if you use down the line, I know if I hadn't had the HRT at the time and I had those fluctuations, I wouldn't be here today.

So I was, people can't comprehend of the, you know, but people can't comprehend how I'll, I was.

So they're taking isogen and now I take testosterone and progesterone too.

And it's changed my life.

I was talking to this man that I met yesterday, an 80 year old man and I, you know, saying what's your mum do for work?

And I said, you know, she's in menopause specialist and GP and he's sort of freaked.

And I said obvious, it's not really to do menopause.

Menopause is a long term hormone deficiency.

It's to do with hormonal imbalances.

And that happens throughout, you know, your whole lifespan.

It's not just at the end of your life.

And all of a sudden, like this man just got it.

And he was so on board with what I was saying.

And yeah, so HRT has been like obviously incredible for me.

Yeah, and I, I don't want to get emotional because it's been a really hard journey for everybody in the family.

And I think, you know, with a lot of my work, you, I, you know, the push backs that I get.

And I think it's so important for people to understand your story and other people's story because holistic medicine is so important.

We have to look at everything.

Yeah.

And with migraine, there are so many different triggers.

I have migraine, but not nearly as bad as you.

And it's trying to unpick absolutely everything.

And we do it all the time with our patients as well.

And hormonal changes is one part of it.

And I still feel guilty because a while ago, before I understood as much as I do know about hormones, someone did prescribe for you a synthetic progesterone to try and help with your bleeding.

And I remember walking down Baker Street in London and your skin was terrible.

Do you remember your mood was very flat?

And you said to me, I think it's progesterone.

And I said, oh, I don't think it is because I didn't know how else to help you at the time.

And looking back, that was totally the wrong thing for you to have a synthetic hormone in your body.

But you know, when people are really ill, you do clutch at straws.

And I've really tried to be your mum, not your doctor.

And I've sat in so many consultations with you and listened to different consultation style.

And when that doctor in Manchester said that's just the way that you're going to be.

And he offered you a drug called topiramate which some people but it does cause a lot of side effects.

And we were trying to ask about having Botox which you have as well regularly and he said no because you have to fail 3 medications before you can have.

I know and it's.

The it's.

Crazy these guys because for example, it's yeah it's like fails 3 medications at the highest possible dose you can tolerate.

So is it sick form?

Is it music specialist sick form?

Like it was really intense and I remember I was trying to stomach the highest possible dose I could have of propaninol, which is beta blocker.

And I'm incredibly, we've found out of the, I'm really sensitive to medication.

So don't take a daily medication now other than HRT.

And I was going to perform and I just thought, I don't feel excited.

I don't like music.

I'm, I don't understand what's happening to me.

And I spoke to you and you said, Oh yeah, didn't you realize that you're not going to feel any psychological effects of anxiety?

I was like, no, because I was just prescribed this.

I was told this is for migraine.

It's not going to, you know, And when I was trying to stomach a really high dose of candestartan and I was just.

The fainting, the it's just, it's just so bad, but.

This and that's a mild medication.

This is what?

Surprised me.

So candestartan is a blood pressure lowering treatment.

It's not license for migraine, but off license, we know it can help some people for prophylaxis.

It's mentioning guidelines, but no one ever told you the potential side effects of these medications.

You were given them in good faith, which is fine.

But it just surprises me that no one sat down and said, but you might have this side effect, you might have that.

Just look out for this.

So when you were feeling flatter in your mood on the Propranolol, you thought it could have been anything or you were depressed.

And there are lots of times that you have been very low in your mood, but giving you antidepressants would not have been the right thing.

I remember you when you were assessed by a psychologist in Queen's Square and they saying that you might have depression.

Well, of course, because you couldn't function or.

Yeah, I mean, I was diagnosed with severe depression because, like, I couldn't, you know, is it the point of do I piss myself or do I get out of bed because I'm in so much pain?

I actually don't think I can walk to go to the bathroom, you know, It's not.

No.

It's not light stuff.

No, and your migraines just wouldn't lift and wouldn't improve and you had many times where they were so bad.

But we're not dwelling on that because they're so much better.

But it's the way that, you know, I, I spend a lot of time in consultations with patients and I'm really honest with them.

And I'd always say, look, I, I'm not sure how I can help you or I've done as much as I can, but I'd like you to see someone else for an opinion.

But that was never offered.

It was very much, this is the way you're going to be now.

And if we'd listened to a few of the doctors years ago, I can't even imagine what would have happened.

But when you did see the doctor that you're under now in Queen Square and just to having time where he'd listened to you and I remember coming away and thinking, wow, he actually understands.

And it's not a quick fix.

And I think that's the same with any any chronic condition.

And obviously migraine is a chronic WHO.

Realizing, you know, all the lifestyle changes, it's going to take at least three months for you to basically feel any benefit and all these kinds of things.

And at the time when you're so I'll, you know, and people would say to me, oh, maybe maybe you should just drink more water.

And you think, fuck off.

Like, you don't know what I've gone through.

This is actually ridiculous.

And now that I'm more balanced day-to-day and most of my time is pain free and I occasionally have migraine, I realize obviously, yeah, it's really beneficial that you drink, you know, so many, you know, how saying about this book I read the other day and those people chronically dehydrated.

But it's just as all these tiny little things all come together and all these 1% gains which you can do.

But then also thinking about other people with hormonal issues which are diagnosed not as hormonal issues.

And you think almost all the incremental gains and benefits in your body from having the right hormones for your body so.

It's a mind.

It's so.

Frustrating and then thinking about people not being listened to by their doctors or having good bedside manner, like I was saying about my friend the other day who their gynecologist just said, well, have you ever considered that maybe you just have painful periods and that's just how it?

Is you think it's awful, it's an uphill battle and you know, you've been experiencing the medical system a lot earlier than a lot of people have.

But I just wanted to, I know we've talked before about PMDD, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, but it is important because I see a lot of people who are your age, do you know you're 22, but you're age early 20s and it's always dismissed.

Oh, you will feel a bit bad.

It's just before your period, so you're just going to have a bad few days.

But what really resonated with me, and I know a lot of people when I talk about it is when you tell me it's those three days, you didn't want to pick up your trombone, you didn't want to join in when we were in COVID, like just household bills.

You just felt really flat and joined us, but it was when you said to me, but it's the rest of the days where you're dreading those days coming.

And also that, you know, if we're just thinking about trombone playing, if you don't, it's very physical, intimate.

If I don't play for three days, it will take at least three days to get my playing back to the standard it was before those three days even happened.

So then you've lost so much more time.

And then also you've got that with skills and not continuing doing work that I do enjoy doing.

But in those three days, you think, Oh my God, do I do I want to quit music?

Do I just hate everything that's in my life?

And it's obviously not to do with that.

And then when you come out of that, you look back and you think, why did I feel that bad?

Maybe there is something deep rooted, maybe I don't like music.

And actually it's not to do with that.

It's maybe your estrogen was a bit low.

Yeah.

So it's not just these three days where you're suffering, is it you?

Know, and there's always psychological reflection on it and it's, it's always, it's the same, you know, when we say if I have a migraine and how it impacts your brain with these diagonal waveforms, which can cause like depression and anxiety.

Well, they do 'cause depression and anxiety in the moment.

And you always say, don't think about it when you have a migraine.

Let's talk about it tomorrow if you're still worried about this and always comes to tomorrow.

And it's Oh yeah, that was a migraine thought that wasn't me.

But when you're when that was happening every month, you think, oh, maybe that is me.

Yeah.

And I know I've seen quite a few of your friends as patients who have suffered as well because they've been well open with you, talking to you, or you've picked it up on them because they're maybe not coming to rehearsals or they're having symptoms in a cyclical way.

Now it's great that discussions are really open, especially my generation.

People say, oh, I'm struggling with this and I feel this way.

And I, I wonder the discussions when I'm not there, people go, yeah, I feel that way too.

It's shit.

And it's this kind of solidarity thing.

When I'm there, I'm like, oh, did you know that she doesn't need to be like this?

And people, you know, and I say, I feel the same every single day.

I don't have these dips, my mood is the same, I feel the same person.

My like, identity and sense of self minus when I have migraine is really secure and people don't.

Realise that surprise people when you say that.

Yeah, everyone is always shocked.

Because so many people have hormonal changes.

So many people have hormonal.

But it's been normalised.

Yeah, completely.

So when I say, oh, there is actually a solution, you don't need to feel this way, everyone's really shocked.

And then the whole thing is also I'm there for those discussions.

Obviously, you know, my friends can they know where to go for help.

But what about all the people that can't go anywhere for help?

You know, all the people that don't know that the solutions and you just have to deal with the pain or whatever it is that, you know, bowel issues or like vaginal dryness.

That's a big thing.

And people just thought you have to deal with it.

It's not fair, is it?

No.

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I'm really thrilled to share with you that I'm doing my UK theatre tour next year.

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I'm coming to lots of places all over the UK and I'm going to be talking a lot about hormones, a lot about the history, what's happened and what's gone wrong for so many women and how we can change this.

It's going to be uplifting, it's going to be sad, it's going to be happy and there's a lot of opportunity to ask questions as well.

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So head to the show notes and you can book tickets.

So does it when you say to people that you're taking hormones, do they are they surprised when you're young?

I really, I actually really like the reaction from guys when I say, Oh yeah, I take estrogen and testosterone and gestrone.

They get what you say, testosterone go, oh, yeah, like I probably have, you know, equal to or more testosterone in my body now than you do as a man.

And as a man, you've got estrogen in your body and it's being produced in the brain.

And they just, it sort of blows their minds open.

Yeah.

People are really shocked by it.

And then they're really intrigued and they're really curious.

And they often go, oh, yeah, I know someone that could benefit from that.

I know someone that feels oh I had no idea that these were linked.

But if you tell people what you were taking hormones in contraceptive pill, they wouldn't.

No outline it, no, even though they're synthetic, so they're it's, it's not the hormones, it's the synthetic version of the hormones.

It's not the same as the hormone itself.

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, Because all you're doing is is topping up what your body wasn't miss what wasn't producing and you have a hormone or coil in which is probably stopping you ovulate and stopping your own natural hormones as well because it's.

A synthetic because it's.

Synthetic.

So all you're doing is having a very low dose, which is really helping.

But you were using estrogen through the skin, the estrogen patches, but when the weather was hot.

God, that was terrible.

That was so that was so bad because they, the patches weren't sticking and I didn't realize that it was the glue that the esotiles in.

So that's how it's absorbed.

And I was just, yeah, I was just being terrible.

Like I was getting this vaginal dryness I was getting, I was getting loads of ingrown hairs.

I never get ingrown hairs.

I don't even shave my legs.

And I was like, my body just.

Wasn't happy.

It's getting ingrown has like my eyes were dry.

I was feeling way more anxious.

I thought maybe I was worried about at the time I was in Basel like doing sack but playing, which is a historical trombone for those who don't know.

And it was a really exciting thing.

And I was just, I was really overwhelmed.

And we even remember we had to, I had to change the dates.

I was going to Basil because when, yeah, I forget about this.

My migraine was so bad.

And we didn't know why my migraine was so bad.

And it was so stressful because it was the worst it had been in years.

And when my daddy had to come to London, look after me and it was just because my patches weren't sticking.

Because I remember asking you about physical symptoms because you were getting palpitations.

Yeah, as well.

So many heart palpitations and I hadn't had them.

Had heart palpitations when I was in sick form when I wasn't taking HRT.

So you had palpitations, you had vaginal dryness?

Since like 20.

Heart palpitations.

Yeah, cystitis.

That was terrible.

So you use vaginal hormones as well?

Don't.

You my tinnitus was worse.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, yeah, sorry.

Yeah, I, I use pesaries.

They're great.

Which which, as I've just done a podcast earlier, which is coming out with a urologist who's great, and we were talking a lot about vaginal hormones, how younger people can use them as well, especially when it comes to cystitis and urinary symptoms.

Yeah, and, and frequency as well.

But The thing is, in medicine, if we don't ask the questions as doctors, we don't get the answers.

Yeah.

So I could have, if I was a pure migraine specialist, I would have just concentrated on your migraines that had got worse that time when you had to cancel that trip.

But I'm not, I'm think about everything all the time.

So asking those specific questions about your palpitations, your other physical symptoms puts together.

So then it changed preparation.

Because I I was having joint pain.

Yeah, yeah.

It was, it was actually kind of crazy.

Wasn't it?

But I think you can see how people can gaslight themselves as well by they they think it's their fault or they think there's something else going on and don't.

So then if they're not telling the doctors, the doctors don't always pick up all the symptoms.

And that's why it's really important that doctors and clinicians are really, really well trained so they can ask the right question.

So it's hard to know everything that you need to remember to say to a clinician and also everything which is relevant to a clinician because, you know, obviously you or daddy come to my appointments because you're able to talk in like medical jargon.

And sometimes I'll be there and I'll, you know, and I'll say, OK, so I've had this, this, this, this, this.

And you do it less than daddy, but Daddy will go, oh, you don't need to tell them that that's not relevant.

But this thing is really relevant that you just said.

Obviously as a layperson, I don't know what's relevant.

And if you don't have a medic that's not by your side saying, oh, actually she forgot to tell you that this also happened.

So one of the drugs that you were given was an inhaler and it's very similar to something called oxybutynin, which is a anti muscular in it treatment that some of the guidelines say can be given to women as a treatment for hot flushes because can help sometimes with hot flushes.

But when when you had it, it caused lots of symptoms.

Do you remember?

Well that was when I started taking pessaries because I all of a sudden had like such bad vaginal dryness I could barely walk.

And it was, it was terrible.

It was so bad.

But you also you're you you're you couldn't read very well on your remember you.

Yeah, and I had all these, like, black spots in the corner of my vision, and it felt like I felt so on edge because it felt like there was just something behind me that I couldn't quite see.

And your skin was really dry as well.

Yeah, that was, that was terrible.

And then my lips weren't good and my lips were splitting and then that was terrible for playing trombone.

And then I was more prone to getting spots around here as well.

And obviously that was really it was, it was.

Awful.

So I'm, I'm sort of bringing that up not to.

Give you children came from but what?

What I was thinking was when you, when we realized that it was the inhaler that was similar to the oxybutynin and that you have a having all these anti muscular in it side effects and you stopped and you started to feel a lot better.

I remember a few weeks later saying to you, do you know what?

That's a medication that people use as a non hormonal treatment.

I know and I remember I just started crying.

I know your person's tears thinking about the women.

Yeah.

And this is where I have an issue.

So I don't mind if people take hormones or not.

But what I feel really sad is these non hormonal treatments that are given to women to try and maybe help a hot flash because there isn't very good evidence that they work for other symptoms and they don't work for the health benefits.

So women are given them like you've been given drugs in good faith from doctors, but they're not talking about the side effects.

But the side effects are often worse than the symptoms that they're trying to treat.

And you know, you are sensitive medication.

Not everyone on oxybutynin is going to have those symptoms.

But oxybutynin is is also associated with increased risk of dementia.

And your memory was going as well when you were taking that inhaler because we were worried there was something else going on.

So the power of these other drugs, I think, just can't be underestimated.

I know.

So you also had olanzapine, which is an antipsychotic medication.

So it's used a lot for people with psychosis, very severe depression.

It's sometimes used.

And I see a lot of women who have been misdiagnosed with a mental health condition when it's related to their hormones.

And a lot of these people are given antipsychotic medication.

And we know that they have different side effects, but a lot of people experience side effects with them.

And it didn't help you did it.

It was given to me in good faith and that it could help.

And I don't, you know, I'm completely fine that it was prescribed me and I tried it and it didn't work.

And I think, you know, for some people that will be the medication and that helps them and that's great.

But people also don't know and they're not being told and doctors maybe aren't aware or aren't aware that oh, also this could help.

So maybe also try this medication, see what you prefer.

Like maybe it's a combination.

It just is is really sad to think that there are so many people that don't know the quality of life that they could have.

And I think this is where they us knowing that the side effects are related to a drug, but a lot of people think it's part of their condition.

So they're living with side effects of a drug that they might not have need to have.

And, you know, some of our data shows that when we give hormones and add in testosterone, we can de prescribe so we can reduce the prescribing of antidepressants, antipsychotics, some of the other painkillers and drugs as well.

And it's always a balance and we always like trying to look at optimizing treatment for our patients.

But sometimes once you're on a medication, that's it, you just carry on with it.

And that's a real problem.

I know.

So you also play the trombone and all sorts of groups, all sorts of orchestras, all sorts of people.

And you're often like saying to me, Mummy, this person is so obviously menopausal, This especially when you're with older people.

And it's one of those things, once you see, it's hard to Unsee.

But like, you're really young and you're still seeing the suffering that's going on all the time.

Do you know, do you think in your mind that things are going to change?

Yeah.

Do you?

Well, yeah, I think do.

You think there's a difference in your generation of people like your friends?

Once you educate them, talk to them.

Are they?

Are they?

Once I think differently, once I talk to them about things and you know, obviously so they can look at balance and like loads of free resources online, then like it changes their life and then they're always talking about it.

And it's I was, I don't know if I was saying it to Sophie the other day, but people often ask me when I see them.

They go, oh, how's your mum like?

And that's the first thing they asked before going how's your partner?

How's your mum?

How's your dad?

How's Alex?

You know, people are really interested in the work that you're doing and how it can positively impact them and their lives.

So I hope it will, it will change and shift.

But I think one of the sort of scary things is when people are aware of, you know, maybe someone's OK, it's talking about the menopause and they don't see it as a taboo.

And they think, yeah, we need we need to talk about the menopause.

It's important to have awareness there.

That's great.

But then it stops at the awareness and there's no.

It's not enough, is it?

They don't, they don't know about treatment or they've been told don't go near HRT, yeah, or all of this kind of stuff.

And that's really sad.

Or people say, oh, yeah, I'm, I'm through it now.

So I don't, you know, I wouldn't benefit my HRT anyway.

And you think, well, even if you, you just look at preventing Alzheimer's, you know, yeah, I was, you've we I'm not.

You can talk to other people about this, this, but I just think it's really important to push a conversation further to be like, this doesn't need to be an issue.

This just needs to be, you know, in the same way you know how you always use the example of your thyroid isn't working.

Here's some thyroxine.

Great.

It's not this whole.

Oh, we need to talk about like all the issues around if should be.

Yeah, it's yeah, it should be simpler because as you say, is is simple.

It's very simple.

Yeah, for the vast majority of people.

And even when it's not simple and it's more nuanced and complicated, you know, as a esteemed medical person, like you have the expertise and training and, you know, clinical practice to be able to help people in a newer sway.

But yeah, so I just think that's, yeah, it's really sad.

It is sad because there is a simple solution for a problem that's affecting every woman.

So we've talked a lot.

There's been a lot of medical jargon, there's been lots of things.

But I know there will be people listening who have chronic diseases.

There'll be people listening with migraines, maybe fibromyalgia, chronic pain.

So I just want three take home tips from you.

You are really good advocate for yourself.

You're really good advocate for your future health.

But it's not easy and you've worked really hard at it and you know the proof is in the pudding and it takes time and patience.

Every little adjustment, every little you treatment lifestyle, you've had to wait.

So people that are maybe listening, it was alright for her.

She looks great, she feels great.

We've been really open that it hasn't been easy, not just for you, but for us as a family.

So what three things do you think people listening could think, right?

This is what's going to help.

What would you suggest people to do if they've got a chronic disease disease and they feel that they're not getting to the place that they want to well?

That's really hard.

And I think a big thing is people are not being listened to and you talk about, you know, people being medically gaslit and told, Oh, it can't be that bad or oh, you've got this one really big bad symptoms.

So we're not going to talk about all the other symptoms.

And you know, it's the same when I was really I'll and people like, Oh, you can't be that I'll and it's you know, people don't don't know.

So I think, you know, being listened to is a really big thing.

Or finally someone that can listen to you and being validated in how you're feeling because it's like, it's rubbish.

Yeah, it's real.

It's real and it's rubbish.

Yeah.

So, so I think that's probably the main thing I I don't know, because when I was really ill, everyone just said, oh, you need to, you know, you're going to be so resilient.

This is great.

Like, this is character building.

I think I don't want to be resilient because I don't want to be ill, you know?

So I feel like giving advice to people saying I'll be resilient, That's not the advice I wanted to hear when I was like, I'll, you know, But I remember one time I said to like my dad, you know, if you don't know what to say, like, just give me a hug.

And I think that's having that connection with people is really important because when you're I'll, your community just goes, yeah, sometimes.

You can't get upset.

A tear hasn't been shed, so yeah.

So.

But yeah, so.

Being listened, being.

Listened to having community yeah.

And for other people like coming to that person for that community, yeah.

Knowing that like, nothing is permanent and yeah, states can shift, even if you feel so stuck in the moment and sometimes the present moment feels so drawn out and you think this actually isn't going to change.

But it will but it.

Will and it's so and it's so incremental and small and then you look back and you go, oh, I was there.

Now I'm.

Here.

And that's so important.

Yeah, and you have to realise the value and like even the smallest things like coming in here in the lights been triggering battery, my head's clear and I've got my special glasses if you talk ages, but I've got my special glasses on and it's fine and I'm able to manage and like I feel great and the rest of my day is really exciting and go to a talk and going to a gig and but a couple of years ago I wouldn't have even been able to walk in this.

Building so looking at progress.

I wouldn't been able to travel to even get here.

You just.

I know it's amazing, but I think that is.

Your progress, whatever that is.

Absolutely.

And you need to work with people who understand that progress and can encourage and support.

So I know it's been quite emotional, but I'm really grateful because I know what you're saying and the strength that you have as a 22 year old is quite formidable.

So thank you for.

Coming on.

You're welcome.

You're right, it's quite a lot.

Well done.