[SPEAKER_02]: On the surface, there isn't much that's frightening about Culver City, California.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the nineteen seventies, it was a place where suburban life and the bright lights of Hollywood came together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Known for its impressive collection of movie studios, it was also home to about forty thousand members of the working class.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when the film opens, we meet single mother Carla Moran, played by Barbara Hershey, who lives in one of Culver City's small bungalows with her three kids, older son Billy and younger daughters Julie and Kim.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carla is a woman who is at the end of her rope in more ways than one.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's struggling to try and raise her kids on her small salary.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's attending night school hoping for a better job, and her life is just about to turn into a nightmare like nothing she could have ever imagined.

[SPEAKER_02]: After coming home from her night school secretarial class, Carla is violently raped by some sort of invisible assailant.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's of course unable to see.

[SPEAKER_02]: The terror of the attack followed by the destruction of the room she's in forces Carla to flee with her children to the home of her best friend Cindy, played by Margaret Bly.

[SPEAKER_02]: But this is only a temporary fix.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carla can't afford a motel and can't afford to move, so the family has to go home, but the attack was not a one-time event.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next day, as Carla is on her way to work, she's nearly killed when her car mysteriously goes out of control in traffic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Urged by Cindy to see a doctor, Carla meets with psychiatrist, Dr.

Phil Snyderman, played by Ron Silver, and tenively agrees to therapy.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Snyderman doesn't believe in the supernatural.

[SPEAKER_02]: After another attack, which leaves scratches, bruises, and bite marks behind, he believes they're self-inflicted.

[SPEAKER_02]: despite being in places that she could never reach.

[SPEAKER_02]: After Schneiderman drives her home that night and meets her family, Carla tells him about the many traumas she's experienced in her life, including being molested as a child, a teen pregnancy and the violent death of her first husband.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she might imagine this further convinces him that the rapes she's been reporting are delusions resulting from her past trauma.

[SPEAKER_02]: But almost as soon as he leaves the house, Carla is attacked again this time in front of her children.

[SPEAKER_02]: Billy tries to intervene, but he's hit by some really funny looking early, eighties, special effect, electrical discharges that are purple for some reason.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, [SPEAKER_02]: While the group of medical doctors and psychiatrists in Snyderman's practice, who grill Carla in a really uncomfortable scene with a lot of nineteen eighty cigarettes smoke all over the room, they believe the events in the house could be dismissed as Carla's delusions, but she insists they're real, which leads them to try and convince her to commit herself to a mental hospital for observation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carla takes a hard pass on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: After her friend Cindy witnesses an attack, the two discussed possible supernatural causes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when visiting a local bookstore, Carla meets two paracicologists from UCLA, who she convinces to visit her home.

[SPEAKER_02]: Although skeptical at first, they witnessed several unexplainable events, and agreed to return with the head of the department, Dr.

Kooley, for a more intense investigation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, Dr.

Snyderman is still coming around, trying to convince Carla that everything is in her head, and that the Paris psychologist have no idea what they're doing, and Carla basically tells him to get lost.

[SPEAKER_02]: reassured that the things happening to her family are finally being taken seriously, Carla starts to relax and is happy to see her boyfriend, truck driver, Jerry Anderson, who is just returned to town.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Jerry is not happy that night, when he witnesses Carla being held down on the bed by the entity, while being raped and noticeably fondled by invisible fingers.

[SPEAKER_02]: confused and horrified he attempts to fight off the attacker.

[SPEAKER_02]: Later after Carlos taken to the hospital, Jerry is so troubled by the incident that he decides to end their relationship.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, desperate for an end to her abuse, and I'm guessing the filmmakers were desperate for some kind of big bang ending.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carla agrees to take part in an elaborate experiment conducted by Dr.

Coolie's team, which involves liquid helium and ice and exploding tanks and all kinds of stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, the entity becomes trapped in the ice, but breaks free in vanishes.

[SPEAKER_02]: The good news is that Dr.

Steinerman finally believes that Carla has been telling the truth all along.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is the end, or so it seems, until Carla returns home, and the front door of the house slams by itself, and she hears a disembodied voice walking in her home with some choice words that I won't repeat.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she's had enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: She calmly leaves the house, gets in the car with her family, and drives away.

[SPEAKER_02]: Before the credits, a footnote appears on the screen to tell us that Carla and the family moved to Texas.

[SPEAKER_02]: And while she still experiences the tax by the entity, they have lessened in frequency and severity.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if only the true story behind the entity was so neatly tied up at the end.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, there isn't much about the real-life story that isn't messy chaotic and if true, [SPEAKER_02]: absolutely terrifying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, there is no solid documentation of what happened in that house in Culver City.

[SPEAKER_02]: The film, like every account of the true story, was based on the nineteen seventy-eight book by Frank D.

Follida called the entity.

[SPEAKER_02]: When published the author called it a novelized account of a true haunting, novelized the author said because, quote, no one would believe it was true.

[SPEAKER_02]: And while Frank D.

Fletta wrote other horror novels in the nineteen seventies and eighties, notably Audrey Rose, which also became a movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: His book about this case was different.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was different because he was there in the house when the events described in the book took place.

[SPEAKER_02]: He witnessed at least some of them firsthand.

[SPEAKER_02]: And while we still have to separate the truth from the fiction in his book, he maintained until his death in twenty sixteen that the events he described in print actually occurred.

[SPEAKER_02]: So watch the film, listen to the story, read the book if you want, and then you conjudge for yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to American hauntings, the podcast dedicated to the history, hauntings legends, lore, and the dark side of American history.

[SPEAKER_02]: And welcome to the latest episode of season nine, a season we call, based on a true story.

[SPEAKER_02]: American hauntings is written and performed by Troy Taylor, that's me, and is produced and co-hosted by Cody Beck.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this season, we're bringing you some of the scariest and most unsettling films about ghosts, demons, murder, and mayhem that have ever been shown on the silver screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you can't watch any of them and say, it's only a movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: Every episode of this season offers the true story behind these horrifying films.

[SPEAKER_02]: Stories that are usually much scarier than anything a movie studio can create.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is episode sixteen of season nine.

[SPEAKER_02]: be entity.

[SPEAKER_02]: The true story of the entity does it begin with Carla Moran coming home from work one night.

[SPEAKER_02]: It actually started with researchers Barry Taff and Carrie Gainer from the Department of Parasicology at UCLA visiting the home on August, twenty second, nineteen seventy four.

[SPEAKER_02]: A short time earlier, the two men had been discussing the paranormal and a local bookstore when they were approached by a woman named Doris Blither.

[SPEAKER_02]: who wanted to tell them about her haunted house.

[SPEAKER_02]: The pair agreed to meet Doris at her home, not realizing at the time how battling and terrifying this case would turn out to be.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doris lived in a small, crowded home in Culver City, with her six-year-old daughter and her three sons, who were ages ten, thirteen, and sixteen.

[SPEAKER_02]: The house was filthy.

[SPEAKER_02]: The family lived in squaller.

[SPEAKER_02]: The terrible living conditions, I mean the house had been twice condemned by the city, and the tumultuous relationship between doors and our sons gave taff and gainer some serious reservations about getting involved.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was later discovered that doors had suffered abuse from our parents and from several men in our past.

[SPEAKER_02]: Taff and Gainer began interviewing the family hoping to understand what was happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doris who was a petite woman in early thirties was nervous and unhappy and it was clear there was tension between her and her three sons.

[SPEAKER_02]: The researchers feared their resentment of Doris might be causing negative feelings in the house, but it quickly became clear that what they claimed was occurring went way beyond just negative feelings.

[SPEAKER_02]: All the family members told the same story, especially when it came to the apparition they'd seen in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: They described it as semi-solid in form and standing well over six feet in height.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Doris and her older son also claimed to see two other figures who were dark and solid in Doris' bedroom, where the figures seemed to be struggling with one another.

[SPEAKER_02]: This was witness several times, and once Doris claimed she physically bumped into one of them in the hallway.

[SPEAKER_02]: The family insisted they had not imagined these apparitions and refused to accept the possibility that they were intruders who had broken into the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: but then the story got worse.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doris claimed that she'd been repeatedly attacked and raped by one of the spirits while the two smaller beings held her down by her wrists and ankles.

[SPEAKER_02]: This had happened several times she told them, and after each attack, bite marks and large black bruises were left behind on her legs, arms, breasts, and inner thighs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doris also dramatically claimed that during one attack, her oldest son had overheard the scuffle and entered her bedroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: She said that he'd witnessed her being tossed back and forth on the bed and when he tried to help her, an invisible force slammed him into a wall.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her son corroborated the story, saying he was terrified when it happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, Doris' claim of spectral rape couldn't be verified since it had occurred a few weeks before Tath and Gainer came to the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: There were no longer any bruises to see and no adults or anyone outside the family who could verify the events had occurred.

[SPEAKER_02]: They admitted the family seemed shaken and upset though, but this could easily be explained if Doris was mentally ill or making things up and upsetting the rest of the family with her anxiety.

[SPEAKER_02]: They decided they didn't want to continue pursuing the case.

[SPEAKER_02]: They believed doors would be better helped by someone in the university's psychology department, not by psychological researchers.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, a few days later, Doris called and informed them that five individuals outside of her family had now seen the apparitions.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, Tafigainer decided to return to the house with cameras and tape recorders.

[SPEAKER_02]: They immediately noticed something odd when they entered Doris's bedroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even though it was a hot August night and the windows were closed, the temperature was unusually low when [SPEAKER_02]: comparing the bedroom to the rest of the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the cold spots faded in and out they said, sometimes completely disappearing.

[SPEAKER_02]: They could find no source for the unusual chills, but they soon discovered this was just one of the many oddities in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next of the unexplainable happenings occurred while Gainer was talking to Doris' oldest son in the kitchen.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was standing at a short distance from a lower kitchen cabinet when the cabinet door suddenly swung open and a pan jumped out of it, landing about three feet away.

[SPEAKER_02]: After examining the cabinet, Taff and Gainer went into the bedroom again, with Doris and her friend Candy, who had joined them for the evening and who claimed to be psychic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Taff took a photograph of the bedroom with a Polaroid S.X.

[SPEAKER_02]: Seventy camera and it came out perfectly.

[SPEAKER_02]: After they were in the room for about fifteen minutes though, Candy shouted that she sensed something in the corner.

[SPEAKER_02]: Tath ran back into the room with the camera and immediately aimed at the corner and took a second photo.

[SPEAKER_02]: This photograph was bleached completely white as if it had been exposed to some sort of intense energy or radiation.

[SPEAKER_02]: The same thing happened a few minutes later when Candy again directed their attention to the corner.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next photo was still bleached out, but not as badly as the first time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Puzzled, TAF took another photo.

[SPEAKER_02]: This time in the living room, Vicky meant something might be wrong with the camera, but this photo came out fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: As did the subsequent photos taken by Keri Gainer in the bedroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: The only difference was that these photos were not taken while candy sensed something else was in the room with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: A few minutes later, Taff took another photo.

[SPEAKER_02]: This time, because of a cold breeze that came from the closed bedroom door.

[SPEAKER_02]: This one was the strangest of the night, showing an eerie light that was about one foot in diameter.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the photo was hovering a few inches from the door, but no one had seen the light with a naked eye.

[SPEAKER_02]: While taffing gainer were studying the photo, taff happened to glance toward the bedroom window, and saw several rapidly moving blue balls of light.

[SPEAKER_02]: He immediately raised the polarite again and took a photo in the direction of the curtains.

[SPEAKER_02]: The developed image was blurry and bleached out, but there was no sign of the blue lights that taff had seen.

[SPEAKER_02]: minutes later, Candy again warned about the presence of the entity in the room, this time standing directly in front of her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Taff fired the Polaroid in her direction, and this resulted in an odd photo of Candy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her face was completely bleached out, and yet her dress and the room behind her and the room all around her were completely clear and distinct.

[SPEAKER_02]: Another photo this time taken by Kerry Gainer under the same conditions, again captured candy with bleaching all around her face, even though the rest of the photograph was, again, clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: With this point, they became convinced that something out of the ordinary was occurring in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Over the course of the next ten weeks, a team from UCLA was almost always present in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: They returned many times for investigations, bringing dozens of eyewitnesses, researchers, and photographers with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Initially, most of the researchers were skeptical of the events reported by Tavern Gainer, but some more of them began to share the belief that something paranormal was happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was after they witnessed inexplicable events for themselves.

[SPEAKER_02]: One night, what can only be described as a light show to place in the house in front of twenty startled onlookers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the photos that were taken, though, were disappointing.

[SPEAKER_02]: The light was so bright that most of them came out overexposed, although there was nothing logical, natural, or artificial that could be admitting the kind of energy that would wash out a pull the right photo that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the witnesses present that night was Frank D.

Folletta, the author who would go on to write the book based on the case.

[SPEAKER_02]: Frank would later vividly recall the light as it moved into the center of the room, and the shouts from those who were present.

[SPEAKER_02]: He said that Doris started screaming as the light moved toward her, cursing and daring the entity to show itself instead of just a light.

[SPEAKER_02]: And at that point, according to Frank and the other witnesses, [SPEAKER_02]: Part of an arm, a neck, and what looked like a bald head began to appear.

[SPEAKER_02]: They all saw it at the same time, and swore.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was not a hallucination.

[SPEAKER_02]: The investigations continued, and several nights later, doors made a frantic phone call to the lab and told the researchers that, quote, all hell had broken loose at the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Items had been broken, furniture overturned, and all the black poster boards that the UCLA team had taped up on the walls to assist with photographing the scene had been torn down.

[SPEAKER_02]: Taff and Gainer returned to the house that night to survey the damage.

[SPEAKER_02]: They saw the poster boards have been ripped away from the wall with such force that pieces of paint and plaster had been removed along with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: They also noted that the bedroom was frigid compared to the rest of the house and that a foul smell that had been encountered on previous nights had returned.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dora, who claimed she'd also seen apparitions in the house again, refused to be calmed down until nearly midnight.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't until then that Taff and Gainer felt it was safe enough for them to leave her alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Five days later, the UCLA team returned, and once again, they all witnessed the apparition of a large muscular man in the process of forming and Dora's bedroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: His shoulders, head, and arms were clearly seen by all twenty people who were present.

[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, Taff heard a loud thud and turned to see that two members of the team were on the floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Seeing the apparition proved too much for them to handle and both had fainted.

[SPEAKER_02]: They both left the short time later and didn't return to the house again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, six nights later, the rest of the team did return.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the evening started off with doors recounting incidents that occurred the night before.

[SPEAKER_02]: Both doors and her thirteen-year-old son claimed that a pair of candle holders flew across the kitchen and struck doors on the arm.

[SPEAKER_02]: The boy said they had barely missed him.

[SPEAKER_02]: They also claimed that a large wooden board, which was nailed to the wall under a bedroom window for reasons I can't begin to guess, was torn loose from the wall and was propelled about fifteen feet across the room.

[SPEAKER_02]: The board narrowly misdores.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was able to show Taff and Gainer the bruise left behind by the flying candle holders and that detached board.

[SPEAKER_02]: The team was accompanied that night by Dr.

Phelma Moss, head of the laboratory in UCLA's Neuro Psychiatric Institute.

[SPEAKER_02]: As well as several assistants from the lab, two psychiatrists from the Institute who had an interest in the case in Frank D.

Fulida, who had brought along a professional camera man, and hopes of capturing the eerie lights that had been seen in the house on other occasions.

[SPEAKER_02]: The group decided to try a seance, which would hopefully make contact with the entities in the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: They replaced all the black poster boards on the walls before they began, hoping it would make it easier to photograph anything that appeared against the black surface.

[SPEAKER_02]: but the strange lights did not return that night.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, at one point, Gainer asked the presence in the house to demonstrate its strength by, again, tearing the poster boards off the walls, but this time, in their presence.

[SPEAKER_02]: Almost immediately, several of the poster boards directly above doors is head, were suddenly torn loose and one of them struck her in the face.

[SPEAKER_02]: The group watched the boards being torn loose from the tape on the walls as if by invisible hands.

[SPEAKER_02]: After quieting and upset Doris, Gainer again requested the presence removed more poster boards from the walls, and once again, two more well secured boards were ripped from their position from the back wall and thrown across the bed to the floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: They missed Doris this time, which I'm sure was a relief.

[SPEAKER_02]: The activity reportedly continued over the next few weeks, but the intensity of the events started to decrease.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doris, however, claimed the rapes continued and displayed bruises and scratches on her thighs as evidence.

[SPEAKER_02]: The last visit that Taffin Gainer made to the house was on October thirty first, nineteen seventy four.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was Halloween, but little out of the ordinary occurred though.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was only a week odor and a small sensation of cold, but there were no lights, nothing moved, no apparitions or anything else.

[SPEAKER_02]: The strange happenings at the house eventually stopped altogether, although Doris and her family were gone by then.

[SPEAKER_02]: Subsequent residents of the house never reported anything out of the ordinary, and the house has since been restored and is in good condition today.

[SPEAKER_02]: As for Doris, Taff and Gainer, Tempereleva's contact with her and the children.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then three months later, in February, when they discovered she'd fled Culver City for Carson, California.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then she'd moved to San Bernardino to Texas and then back to San Bernardino again.

[SPEAKER_02]: According to her claims, they spear it's followed her and her family to every house to which they moved.

[SPEAKER_02]: And over time, she became more unstable.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she later reported that she'd become pregnant by the ghost.

[SPEAKER_02]: A medical test revealed her physical symptoms to be the result of what's called a hysterical pregnancy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was no surprise, given the circumstances that Doris believed the entity would eventually kill her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, after that, Doris dropped out of sight, and it was later learned that she passed away in the late nineteen nineties.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her children have never come forward to speak about the case.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks in part to the fact that the alleged supernatural events seemed to follow Doris wherever she went, Barry Taff eventually came to believe that the strange events were the product of Doris' troubled mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: She had a history with alcohol and drug addiction, had suffered from a traumatic childhood and had been involved in several abusive relationships as an adult.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some have suggested that the three entities that held her down and raped her were at manifestations created in her subconscious to represent her three sons with whom she had a troubled relationship.

[SPEAKER_02]: Taff suggested that everything that had occurred could be explained as a poltergeist outbreak.

[SPEAKER_02]: Energy created by Dorsey's anxiety and tension.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her pain and mental anguish had in a very real sense created the monster that prayed upon her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Years after his involvement with this story, though, I had the chance to speak with Dr.

Taff about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he told me he still had some nagging doubts about his belief that Doris had created everything he and the rest of the team had witnessed and experienced.

[SPEAKER_02]: What if we were wrong he asked?

[SPEAKER_02]: What if there really are discounted entities that prey on weak and emotionally troubled individuals?

[SPEAKER_02]: What if ancient mythology regarding the incubus and the succubus or more than just legend superstition and religious hysteria?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are we so cockfired sure of ourselves in our neonatal paranormal science that such a definitive statement is possible?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what really happened in that house in Culver City?

[SPEAKER_02]: No one can say.

[SPEAKER_02]: According to science, there was something occurring in that house.

[SPEAKER_02]: The UCLA team was able to document it with recordings, photographs, and even readings from Geiger counters.

[SPEAKER_02]: But whether that's something was supernatural, or created by the troubled parts of Doris Blither's mind?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that remains a mystery.

[SPEAKER_02]: The filming of the entity took place over a ten-week period in Los Angeles and El Segundo, California, in the spring of the late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late late [SPEAKER_02]: No one wanted to touch it here, at least at first.

[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, the studio dumped it into the dead weeks after Christmas, and it hit U.S.

[SPEAKER_02]: theaters in February of [SPEAKER_02]: and not everyone was happy about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: The film seemed to have a way of offending everyone, with its themes of rape, violent sexual repression, single-parent households, and, of course, the supernatural.

[SPEAKER_02]: Churches, women's rights, and feminist organizations protested against it, even attacking Star Barber Hershey for appearing in the film at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: And response to the protest she publicly responded, telling a reporter, quote, I resent being put in the position of defending the film.

[SPEAKER_02]: We worked really hard not to make it exploitative.

[SPEAKER_02]: Rap is one of the ugliest if not the ugliest thing that can happen to someone.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a murder of a sort.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have no answer for those who are offended.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hershey hadn't even been the original choice to play Carla.

[SPEAKER_02]: Several other actresses were approached first, including Jill Clayberg, Sally Field, Jane Fonda, and Bet Midler, but all four turned it down.

[SPEAKER_02]: Barbara Hershey was cast only ten days before production began, and she had hesitated before signing on.

[SPEAKER_02]: She had had some reservations about the nudity in the screenplay.

[SPEAKER_02]: But director Sidney Fury, a shirtter that the nude sequences would be accomplished using body doubles, like when Carlos getting into the bathtub, and by mannequins and special effects, and I'll come back to that in a moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hershey commented on her casting, saying, quote, I was frightened.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know how would be edited or marketed, but I knew Sid saw potential in the film to approach the subject from a human and psychiatric viewpoint, from a mother's viewpoint, and I felt it was a worthwhile risk.

[SPEAKER_02]: As for director Sidney Fury, he told journalists in, in, twenty-twelve, that he did not consider the entity to be a horror film.

[SPEAKER_02]: despite its extreme imagery, unsettling atmosphere and horror plot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, he said he'd consider it to be a supernatural suspense movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, isn't that a horror film?

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, if you wondered about any of the special effects in the film, they were all practical effects that were supervised by Stan Winston, who was known for creating the Terminator and the Predator and worked on aliens, the first three Jurassic Park films, and the thing among others.

[SPEAKER_02]: He won four Academy Awards for his work.

[SPEAKER_02]: He did not, however, win an Oscar for this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Although honestly, side from the really bad eighties digital effects that looked like they were rejected from Tron, it's pretty impressive for the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: For example, in the scene where Carlos new body is grouped by the entity, it was shot using a latex dummy with suction cups inside.

[SPEAKER_02]: This allowed crew members to manipulate it as so it would appear that fingers were making impressions on her flesh.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hershey's body except for her head was [SPEAKER_02]: hidden beneath the bed.

[SPEAKER_02]: The dummy apparently cost sixty five thousand dollars to build.

[SPEAKER_02]: In nineteen eighty one dollars.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I guess it looks realistic as long as you don't look too closely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I often say, not every movie needs to be an ultra high definition for K.

This is one of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, the critical response to the film was overall pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Roger Ebert liked it, and many reviewers praised Frank D.

Fileta for turning his novel into an effective film.

[SPEAKER_02]: Director Martin Scorsese has ranked the entity as the fourth scariest horror film of all time, ranking it above Psycho and the Shining.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is not bad, but I don't think I'd go that far.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the end, the entity remains a worthwhile addition to the library of any horror fan.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a nice time capsule of the early nineteen eighties and is a film that no matter how horrific and frightening it might be, allows us to separate ourselves from the sadness, pain and tragedy of the all two real family that inspired it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks again for listening to American Honings, and we hope you'll stay with us for the post-mortem section in the episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's coming up right after these messages from our sponsors.

[SPEAKER_00]: The story of Carla Moran.

[SPEAKER_00]: The most extraordinary case in the history of psychic research.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything about music went crazy.

[SPEAKER_03]: I had a little shit to bed with shaking and the walls were shaking you.

[SPEAKER_03]: My god, like an earthquake.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, it wasn't like an earthquake.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was much stronger than any earthquake.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wait a minute.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really understand this.

[SPEAKER_03]: You were a time after this for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or you weren't?

[SPEAKER_03]: It happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was raped.

[SPEAKER_03]: You were raped by whom?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there is no one here.

[SPEAKER_00]: A team of experts will investigate her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why does he attack you, Colonel?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, anyone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why should I do such lengths to support this illusion?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the bay will find more than evidence.

[SPEAKER_00]: They will fire.

[SPEAKER_00]: We enter to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: We don't need to do it again later.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess hopefully it'll work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, I'm ready when you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: ready for a little more American Honies this week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we are back with the postmortem, the part of the show after the show where we sharpen our knives and dissect the episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Troy Taylor.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the guy who narrates and writes the show and across from me is the guy who just told me.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's pretty sure that someone got into his bed last night, but when he turned on the light, [SPEAKER_02]: It was nobody there.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's my friend producer sidekick and coast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cody back.

[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't even let me be a little spoon.

[SPEAKER_01]: You never was.

[SPEAKER_01]: You never was.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a selfish ghost at that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sounds like it, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This we're going to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, this was a rough one, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a hard one to make jokes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had to kind of confine my jokes to the special effects, because I'm most part other than a couple of really obvious things.

[SPEAKER_02]: But still, it is not.

[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, where this isn't, we're going to have more of these.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm really mad at you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So well, yeah, and then coming after the last episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which also had some problems.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what happens when you pick old movies.

[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, that's the way it goes.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've got some stuff coming up.

[SPEAKER_02]: We know it's not full, but it's time to start thinking about fall.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our tickets are now on sale for tours and decayed or springfield and allton where we have [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in all walking tours, bus tours, pub girls, dinner tours, dinner events, the American oddities museum, the Houdini say on South Halloween and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you could find everything that we offer at americanhontains.net.

[SPEAKER_02]: That'll get anywhere you want to go, whether it's books or tours or dinners or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that even includes my new book, my new Route sixty six book is out now.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's my Texas New Mexico, Arizona book.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can get signed copies by mail or when I'm at the museum, which is not that often normally, but on August, twenty-third, I will have a book signing.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have a book signing schedule from twelve to three ppm that day.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will be there on the twenty-third.

[SPEAKER_02]: So come by if you've got, you know, want to pick up one in the new books.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look at some of the recent releases.

[SPEAKER_02]: You got it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You old books.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to bring that art signed.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll sign those two.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll sign just about anything, honestly.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, if you want me to sign your baby, I can, I guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why anybody would want me to, but, and I didn't know you had a baby, but, well, not my guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we'll also, first, fifty people that show up the day, we got a limited edition American artist museum button, just for fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Give those away for free.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, be there until they run out.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: Beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to give a quick shout out to our new subscribers on Patreon.

[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you very much for supporting the show to Stephanie Jennifer Gabby, Christy Andrea and Jane.

[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you very much for supporting the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also sorry for the Patreon season you're going to do right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: The season that people are dealing with.

[SPEAKER_02]: The good news is is that next week will be the season finale.

[SPEAKER_02]: of our monster season five.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, you know, that way if you've been waiting for that season to be over and you want to binge the whole thing because you hate yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: This would be the time to do it after next week because we'll be putting that up next Tuesday because we do it every other week.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't fall the same week as this not normally anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: except for that bell which bonus episode that we did.

[SPEAKER_02]: We usually don't have Patreon shows in a regular show at the same time, but, you know, sometimes we do.

[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, you could check it out at patreon.com slash American honines.

[SPEAKER_01]: beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a listener review that I wanted to read real quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this one comes to us from Angel Molette on iTunes and it's titled My New Favorite Podcast says I'm so thankful that I was able to meet Troy last weekend.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, is it ours?

[SPEAKER_02]: Our podcast is our podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I shouldn't have blindsided you with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just surprised.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad that he came down to be a part of our Phantom funeral event.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I bought several books of his then discovered as podcasts and I'm hooked all of my favorite things in one history, paranormal and crime.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely worth a listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you very much for that review.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, and if we do read your review, not not just your random text, everybody calm your jets.

[SPEAKER_02]: If we read your review, we'll send us your address.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll send you something cool in mail.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can text us on the hotline with that address at two one seven seven nine one seven eight five nine not just random text just for reviews.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's your incentive to leave reviews.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now that we don't like getting your text because we have some good ones this time.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we do like getting them, but that is, you know, free stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it goes reviews.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, and this is our way of saying, you know, like we appreciate the reviews.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, we are bribing you if you like to show to the good reviews.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't care.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so why not get free stuff goes.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You want to dive into this episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: So sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So August, twenty second, nineteen, seventy four.

[SPEAKER_01]: My birthday not yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: But well, yeah, I was saying it a few more years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, but yeah, but yeah, on just twenty second.

[SPEAKER_01]: This I was surprised to see I guess the the story that you told and then watching the film.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, not, I mean, it's a movie, but not as many liberties taken with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, as far as the story goes, not not that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, one of the things I don't think it really covered much in the film.

[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe, I mean, for obvious reasons, I can point out as far as budgets and banks go.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, there were like, twenty, twenty-five people in that house all the time during the real life investigations in the [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in the film, you just have the two guys that are, you know, posing or taking the place of Barry Taff and Carrie Gainer.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you really only have the two, the two doctors there.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't really have the, you know, the crowd that they had.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but still like you said, not as many liberties as you might expect.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So something also that I found interesting for the kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the situation completely different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, I mean, it definitely reminded me of, you know, growing up with a single mother and being wanting to like fight every one, anything, but like sure I was actually a tiny person.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess in the real story, it was also a younger, you know, younger.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, yeah, kids were a little, yeah, well, three sons and one daughter instead of an older son and two daughters.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the, I'm not sure what the thinking or the, you know, the reasoning for that with the film.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but there we are exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, something that interesting me about the story is at one point, one of the children I believe said that they saw two figures that seemed to be struggling with each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something I never really even thought about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could do ghost half corals and fights and quamps and things, you know, apparently those do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what course, you know, they [SPEAKER_02]: rapist helper goes apparently.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so well, I mean, and look at it this way, you know, this is some really violent stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that has maybe that has something to do with the, you know, the struggling between the ghosts.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, you know, maybe [SPEAKER_02]: the vibe.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is one of those stories that really leaves a lot to you wondering what in the hell is going on here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It really does.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that if I had to give you my nutshell thought on [SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, I had talked to Barry Taff years years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And about thirty years later, as a matter of fact.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, he had, you know, had kind of come back by that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was thinking, well, maybe there was more to this than I originally thought.

[SPEAKER_02]: But he kind of walked away from the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: with you know this was something that was created by by Doris you know this was something and and you know it kind of spread like a contagion to her kid you know as hysteria and that kind of thing can do but they they did see [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of stuff going on in the house, you know, they photographed it, they measured it, they, you know, they documented a lot of weird happenings.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, I guess you could go either way on this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I could kind of agree with them on it being something that doors conjured up, but boy, on the other hand, boy, this is really, this is some really severe stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, this is not your normal kind of font in here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think though, I mean, a lot of poltergeist and things like that, we typically see younger girls, I'd say instead of women, but not always.

[SPEAKER_02]: The infield poltergeist cases a good example of that, because that was, you know, when we talked about that, you know, and I hate to bring up the warrants again, but we've [SPEAKER_02]: talk about the conjuring part two.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not going to talk about the one just the movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: When we were talking about that movie in the real story with a guy play fair and and more gross, you know, they more stuff so much, but guy play fair really [SPEAKER_02]: believe that it was the mother who was creating a lot of that activity more so even than the girls because of her traumas in the divorce and the you know that abuse and all that kind of stuff so I mean this woman really [SPEAKER_02]: You know, she'd been through it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, molested as a kid, you know, had all these different partners who, you know, had teen pregnancy, had partners who were, you know, treated her horribly more abusive.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, obviously she was kind of coming apart herself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when she starts talking about how the ghost got her pregnant and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that her mental health [SPEAKER_02]: was I think in this case that she could have benefited from both these researchers who were coming in looking at this as some kind of, you know, poltergeist activity or at least some sort of attack, but I also think she really could have benefited and, you know, from an actual psychiatrist, you know, unlike in the movie where you got, you know, Ron Silver who [SPEAKER_02]: Inevitably played, fuzzy, sleazy characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is the only, this is one of the few movies where he's sort of the good guy, but yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: because we're seeing all these things happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: We know it's real and he refuses to admit it until the very end.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he's kind of portrayed as the bad guy because he just keeps coming around and harassing her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: The movie version is different in real life, some.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the music and this movie, like any time anything scary about that happened, you just hear like, bam, bam, bam.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which is really kind of a, I mean, consider when this movie came out kind of a predecessor to just about every Blumhouse movie that's come out in the last ten, fifteen years because, you know, that's one of the big criticisms they get is, you know, telegraphing any kind of, you know, scary activity with music.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is definitely definitely doing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is moving in a aggressive way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very aggressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: The only other thing I wanted to talk about with this movie is I know that these were mostly like psychiatrists and things like that, but when they're they're all in a meeting and they actually have the woman with their and then she leaves, but I love that they're just cigars and cigarettes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I did too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I did too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I in a bummed-in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm watching this by myself and I'm watching this movie and it as she leaves the room and there's just a [SPEAKER_02]: loud and I went, boy, that's the early nineteen eighties.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this is this whole movie is so eighties.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's like this smoking section and restaurants back there and around planes.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was no division.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just here's where it stops.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's where the non-spoking starts.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're sitting anywhere near it, you're in a cloud.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, and so that's what this reminded me of.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, very funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, we've talked about it a lot and there's a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even want to go into this.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a rough watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It should be a trigger warning for people, but here's the other thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have a hard time finding it because we discovered that you at coming into this movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was already planned on our list because I mean, and when you rent mentioning to people, they go, oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that one.

[SPEAKER_02]: most people like me hadn't seen it in years because it's not streaming anywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I had to track down, I did find a blue ray that came out a few years ago, but I'd guessing it came out because it's not streaming anywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I did track down a blue ray on eBay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had to get that and then I had to give it to Cody so I could watch it too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because we had no options here with this film.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a tough one to find.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it was interesting to see a lot of the things that people had to say, you know, the even that we're involved in it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like the director saying that people are not happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the director saying it was a supernatural suspense movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: But dude, isn't that a horror?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, come on.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, it was that it was that, you know, they interviewed him in twenty twelve.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's when he said that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was right around that time when nobody was, nobody was making horror films because it was kind of on the outs at the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was like everybody was using everything they could to say it wasn't a horror film, even though it obviously was.

[SPEAKER_02]: This was the beginning of the elevated horror genre.

[SPEAKER_02]: you know, of everybody who it's, yes, it's horror film, but it's also art.

[SPEAKER_02]: Come on man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's let's roll with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That that don't work.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, the, you know, I was trying to plead the case for Stan Winston, you know, in this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to say he supervised it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It rather than actually created it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, even the, I mean, let's just not even talk about the lightning bolts that are coming.

[SPEAKER_02]: That whole lightning coming.

[SPEAKER_02]: So bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is what it looks like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it does.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, even that, I mean, I know Barbara Hershey was like, Oh, you know, I don't want to do all this nudity and she didn't have to.

[SPEAKER_02]: But honestly, I wouldn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this sounds, listen, this, I'm separating this completely from the whole rape part of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what I mean.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is just something, this is a technical observation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't want people to think that's what I look like, make it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That dummy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see what I mean?

[SPEAKER_02]: The cost of five thousand dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sixty five thousand dollar dummy because [SPEAKER_02]: It's not appealing and I mean, it looks rough and mostly I think mostly is because the chest and the neck on it comes up so high because her head is underneath the bed poking through the bottom that it really looks unrealistic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you say that there were suction cups and vows inside?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, inside.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it looks like the fingers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now that, I mean, that worked.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it did look like, you know, it looked like fingers, but it looked like fingers in plate dope.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I kept thinking, sixty five grand for Plato, essentially.

[SPEAKER_02]: That looked like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's rough.

[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it was one of the things I said is, you know, and we talked about this before, not everything needs to be ultra high death for K.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think this film needed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Was they get older and they're shot with, you know, on film cameras?

[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes that high-deft doesn't do anyone favors.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is very true.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like when I want to see your viewers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and yeah, that's when they started using for K for television news programs and everybody that was a newscast or just [SPEAKER_02]: freaked out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You could see everyone's poor.

[SPEAKER_02]: So at first they had on like a two inches of makeup, which looked awful, because you could see that too.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, anyway, it's it's not a I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it is a definitely a [SPEAKER_02]: time capsule of the eighties that that was one of the kind of things that I can think of and it is very saying it's you know, but it's I mean, it's still, it's an effective film.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's put it that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it does what it's supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: But again, the, you know, the ending with the gigantic, let's, we're going to rebuild your house inside this huge, I don't know, gymnasium or something at UCLA.

[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no way they had time to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And where did they get all that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Where did they get all that liquid helium or whatever it was that they were trying to freeze the ghost with and why when people ran in there to grab her and her and and Carla [SPEAKER_02]: Why didn't they freeze?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because if it's that cold, it's sort of killed them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I still could.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't understand a lot of holes there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand the rules, I guess, of the universe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, when you said the film's effective, uh, yeah, it made me upset.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it does.

[SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I can see in the I-Tain-E-E-One where people, you know, if you heard about this movie without seeing it and you heard what it was about, it sounds like bad, um, penthouse forum letter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm sure that that's because I doubt anyone who protested it had even seen it yet because that's normally the way that seems to work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm sure that that was probably that's I think that was Barbara Hershey's exasperation and frustration with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why I shouldn't have to defend this if you had seen it, you would understand what it's about.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's not glorifying rate.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's for damn sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure that [SPEAKER_01]: What she said, what she said, she's like I'm doing it to show that like rapes like the ugliest thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it is the ugliest thing and she was trying to her thought was trying to show this from the viewpoint of the single mother and what was happening to her and how horrible it was.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I'm sure a lot of people have watched this film over time for the, you know, the titillation factor.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there really isn't any of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't get that from this at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: There isn't anything about it that that, you know, the nudity in it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, for one thing, it's not even, it's not her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's really only one woman who has a very brief nude scene, and that's a body double getting into the bathtub.

[SPEAKER_02]: The rest of the time, you don't really see much of anything except for that, you know, dummy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you think that's real, if you for even in nineteen eight one looked at that and thought that was a real body, you should get out of the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got a problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, well, the first, so I hadn't read any of your outline before I started watching the movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so the first time she's attacked, I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: Wait a second, was that, was that like an assault like what I think happened?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you know, kept watching movie, I was like, oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also the doctor in the beginning, it just seemed a little creepy to me, the way he talked to her and all that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then come what I thought too, but yeah, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was maybe, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe what the bad guy, but I was like, this seems weird, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when she's showing bruises and things like that, and eventually he, there's a woman that he said, hey, you know, can you leave the room?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so they could start talking, but I'm like, have a, have a, maybe a woman, somebody she's more comfortable with check.

[SPEAKER_01]: Check her out, you know, like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's an interesting movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: You pretty much got a lot of what we talked about, but hey, if you watch it, it's on you, if you can find it because you're got to go out of your way to find it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, you know, I think that as far as the real story goes, the real story is much more, I mean, even more tragic than what you see in the film.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now the film is bad enough, but the real-life story is just really sad.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I think that she had shed a lot going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a lot of problems that it had nothing really to do with [SPEAKER_02]: Ghosts and things, but you know, there was the activity there and they did document it, but this I don't know man, it's wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, pretty well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I brought this up before, but I don't think that you had told me this much, but with your conversation with Dr.

Taff and how I'd said, how I had a friend who one time was like, I was like, are you guys like actually seeing ghosts or you just, you know, messed up?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, if you're messed up, when they be the perfect time for ghosts to like, [SPEAKER_01]: All right, you know, some people are out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell me a little bit about your actual conversation with Dr.

Tav?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I had posted something about the real-life story and he had contacted me through email and this was this was early, two thousand so pretty, you know, early on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where did you post it?

[SPEAKER_02]: website because back then there weren't that many ghost websites.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you know, I mean, much lower number, then there would be later.

[SPEAKER_02]: And anyway, he had contacted me and then we got to talk in and he actually sent me he had written a [SPEAKER_02]: manuscript about this case and some other stuff too, a lot of alien type stuff where he'd gotten kind of interested in, which I had no interest in, but had sent me the manuscript and which I've referenced in a few different places when I've talked about the story.

[SPEAKER_02]: I always referenced that manuscript because it had some stuff in it that wasn't [SPEAKER_02]: just widely known, you know, at the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, he just mentioned that, you know, some of the things that they had seen and things.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I kind of worked all that into the story, best I could.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's, you know, where the quote came from about, you know, him talking about, hey, maybe we're wrong about this, you know, maybe there is something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's how all these legends of these, you know, suck you best in the ankle by and that's how they got started, you know, maybe it's real.

[SPEAKER_02]: But [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I, it's hard to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just, I don't know what to think about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I kind of think that they were on the right track and, and, you know, in the first place, that maybe, you know, this was something that she was creating, you know, and we've, we've ran across that time and time and time again, you know, even just in this season.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've had several episodes that's kind of how it ends up.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that when you see the way that her mental health deteriorated after she just drops out of sight and moves all over the place and the fact that her kids have never [SPEAKER_02]: really have never come forward to talk about it themselves and tell their side of the story.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like they just want this thing to be done and with and know it never will be.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the good thing is is that no one knows their names.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they're good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very well protected.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was a long time before anybody even knew what her name was.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because I, I've run across several different names that were used for pseudonyms over time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, but Dors Blither is her real name.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I think the kids have just sort of moved on.

[SPEAKER_02]: That probably says a lot to, you know, don't you think if it had been ghosts and stuff really, and if they were sure about that, I they probably would have come to her defense at some point after the hysterical pregnancy stuff and everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we're ever going to know.

[SPEAKER_02]: really not in this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, the stuff that they have documented and is interesting stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen the photographs they took with the polar rights and the things with the lights and stuff and they're available out there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they're impressive looking.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's something in them.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, knowing that they were using Polaroid so it wasn't like the film was getting, you know, tampered with or distorted in some way, you know, it was really happening and there were twenty and twenty five people there all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty impressive, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So something was going on whether or not it was a, you know, a rapist ghost.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: So say that it was her, you know, and projecting this stuff and all that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that I'm trying to figure out the way to phrase this?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, is it, is it because she has mental illness that she's, her mind's going nuts, and this is projecting out, or is it that it's projecting out, and that's causing a mental illness, or is it, yes, both, or you know, [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question and I think that you could look at that either way, honestly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really do.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, it could go to gone either way.

[SPEAKER_02]: It could go either way with [SPEAKER_02]: any time you run across a situation like that, you know, when you hear that kind of thing, I think that I think it could go, I really do, I think it could go either way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I thought, I thought my depression and anxiety is bad, but damn, I'm not manifest and yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: That other people can interact with and things like, you know, okay, we could talk about this for hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any Ghost Rider stuff, but you want to move on to some hotline stuff?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we do have state for the hotline.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you do have questions or comments about the show, if it's longer than just something quick that you text, you can send it to Cody VIII.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, at American Haunting's podcast at gmail.com or you can text us on the hotline.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that number is two one seven seven nine one seven eight five nine.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it might get read on the show like the ones that I'm just about to read to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So go.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are some of these are, well, they're all about for the most part, I think, about past shows.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is probably going to be our last jaws text, because that was, but that is a, that was an episode that just keeps on giving them no, because everybody likes that movie, I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this one comes to us from the nine to zero area come.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is the year jaws came out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I was about twelve.

[SPEAKER_02]: My dad bought us a little sailboat.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just room for two people and we went to Rocky [SPEAKER_02]: Connecticut.

[SPEAKER_02]: I sail around for a while, the water's very calm.

[SPEAKER_02]: I pulled in the sail and laid down to read a book with my head propped up on the boat next to the tiller.

[SPEAKER_02]: My hair spilling up over the side into the water.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happily reading when I suddenly jerk my head up looking fearfully over the sides of the boat wondering, didn't they film jaws here?

[SPEAKER_02]: I raised the sale and beat it back to shore.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's a funny one.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was good.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, let's see this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so this is sort of a little bit on jaws.

[SPEAKER_02]: Only, just a bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this one comes from Andra in the seven, seven, zero area code.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've read text from her before, but this one's funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: It says this test is super short.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love the jaws episode a couple of weeks ago.

[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned that composer John Williams.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he and Jerry Goldsmith were both incredible.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I agree with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Good soundtracks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know that John Williams's son was slash is the lead singer of Toto.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So how crazy is that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Music runs in the family for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for the great podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I just want to read that because I thought that was pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this one, we're going to, we're going to have to deal with a couple of, we're not, I don't see that in a bad way.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to deal with some of our discussions about Jeepers Creepers and how to handle that art and artists thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we do have some people chime in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: One is Bryce from the Tucson area.

[SPEAKER_02]: even though, as he mentioned, says some area code is actually from Phoenix, but it's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a new Mexico.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, Arizona, Jesus.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really losing here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Get it?

[SPEAKER_02]: I know, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so just listen to your episode of Jeepers Creepers.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a film I never got around to watch you when it first came out, but the time I would have been able to sit and stream it, I already knew about the director.

[SPEAKER_02]: like you, sometimes I can separate the art from the artist, sometimes I can't.

[SPEAKER_02]: I find it's the lot easier for me if you consider the time of history in which someone lived.

[SPEAKER_02]: A racist actor or athlete from the nineteen thirties isn't all that big of a deal to me because that's just how things were at the time, unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_02]: Same goes with other less than ideal or downright discussing aspects of history and the people who made it.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, when it comes to child grooming and pedophilia, there really is no period of modern history where that was just something no society was broadly okay with.

[SPEAKER_02]: This guy is just a monster to me, not a product of his time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So while I'm not sure I can bring myself to watch Jeepers Creepers, the story that inspired it is worth telling.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was a great episode all the same.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I agree with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, if I hadn't seen Jeepers Creepers yet, I would just be like, I am watching that shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this one comes to us some [SPEAKER_02]: for the six one eight and it is another one along that line and has some good points to make here.

[SPEAKER_02]: So just listen to the Jeepers Creepers episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: The question of how do we deal with artists when we find at their horrible people?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I grew up with Bill Cosby.

[SPEAKER_02]: I raised home from kindergarten to get my picture pages out to color with Bill Cosby on Captain Kangaroo and the fat Albert and the Cosby show and listen to by dad's LPs of his standup later on to find out he was awful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't make his work less good.

[SPEAKER_02]: same with O.J.

[SPEAKER_02]: Simpson.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was the Jew, said childhood hero.

[SPEAKER_02]: How do you separate that?

[SPEAKER_02]: No idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: I still don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't erase the work they've done or the records they've said or the jokes they told, but you hate to keep supporting their living.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, with O.J.

[SPEAKER_02]: you're in good luck because dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, but then you think about, you know, how funny was the dude in those, you know, police, you know, in the, you know, the [SPEAKER_02]: The Jamesy did.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, I mean with, no, no, no, sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know what the naked gut, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he was really funny in those and you got to separate it from that, you know, but whoever would have thought when it happened that he would separate a head or two.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, all right, so this goes on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Jerry Lee Lewis basically groomed and married his cousin.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's disgusting to think about.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do I still sing along to his songs?

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, he's a musical genius.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would argue the musical genius part, but whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I understand what you're saying.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's hard to reconcile.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this goes on.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to reconcile the stuff in your mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it is one of those things.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to know how do you separate that stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good question.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're it's one that we're we're still asking.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can I bring something up?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about this before.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like it's way easier when you don't like the artist content to be like, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to listen to it anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I never thought Louis C.

K was all that funny anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: On the other hand, at least he asked permission before he did this stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Good.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's even so.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's, you know, and it's like, you know, I didn't think you were funny anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that no one's watching you now, I wasn't going to watch you anyway, because I never saw you were funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it is that it does kind of fall into that thing where it is a lot easier.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You only wrestle with it if you like their content.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point.

[SPEAKER_02]: So all right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So here's one coming back to our bell which came episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is from the five one eight.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey there, have a question.

[SPEAKER_02]: After listening to the episode about the bell, which cave I was wondering if you believe in an attachment as in when an entity attached you after visiting a haunted place?

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever experienced this ever visiting the cave or have you experienced unusual things at home after visiting the cave?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, because I don't take rocks with me from the cave.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what you're saying as far as attachments go.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think in this kind of case, I'm not sure that it's individual ghosts that are following people home and giving them bad luck.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the energy of the place.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're taking a bit of that energy with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's maybe what's creating the bad luck or you're creating it in yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: also based on that energy that you're taking with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that, I guess it really depends on what you believe in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think individual ghosts are following people home.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's the bell witch who's going to people's houses and wreaking havoc and causing them to catch on fire and that kind of thing or causing someone's face to swell up or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really think that it's energy that's attached to the place.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess in a way, it's an attachment.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that it's energy not necessarily goes.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's just my opinion.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be very curious with Bellwich stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we can't people might write in or whatever, but I can't take anything seriously they're going to say, but I'd be very curious if anyone was very nice, very respectful, didn't take a rock and felt anything or is it like the guilt of, I did something I wasn't supposed to do, or just [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, you know, that's a good thought too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I said.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I think maybe if we create, uh, we create our own bad luck.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe part of that is from the guilt we feel or because someone, you know, like me has won them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do not take a rock, do not take a rock and they take one anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then they think, oh, look, I got away with this rock enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to happen to me and then something does.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so then you blow that up even bigger in your mind because now you've done something forbidden.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be, it could be a waste to look at that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could have been your voice back at their head, then push everything out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this one comes.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is our last one.

[SPEAKER_02]: It comes from Karen in Maryland and touring Cody became a patron a couple of weeks ago and in loving the extra content finished the belt gunna storyline itching to know even more about the woman.

[SPEAKER_02]: But here's her question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious, since the season is based on a true story, is there a story you and Cody would like to see made into a movie?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, just like a story in general.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just a, you know, real-life story that we like to see made into a movie, maybe it's something that has been made before, but maybe we don't feel like it was all that great, or, you know, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think, [SPEAKER_02]: I think for me, there have been some things that have been done that could be better.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to see a much better Houdini film than anything we've ever seen.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to see an alcohol film that is not [SPEAKER_02]: the untouchables, which, you know, because that's really an elegant, nest movie, and, you know, you know, how I feel about the history.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that movie, but man, the history's so bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I would like to see at least semi-accurate, Capal movie that would be better than the crap that has been put out before, you know, say out Valentine's Day massacre, even, I mean, there was one back in the seventies, but it's unwatchable.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's there's some other stuff to we were talking about something.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought you and I were talking about something recently that I can't understand why a film hasn't been made of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I was making the jokes about a Timothy Shalime playing somebody maybe was our [SPEAKER_02]: It might have been.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but yeah, there's there are I should have really given this more thought.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so because it's kind of yeah, I've put you on the spot.

[SPEAKER_02]: I should have warned you ahead of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'd have to think about it some more or I think maybe I'll make a reminder to think about that a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we might say something about it next time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think actually you and I should probably talk about that and then make it a little tiny segment next time like a mini.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we'll get back to you on that Karen and we'll we'll figure out.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll come up with a short list of some things because I know there are.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some other ones because I was just talking about something and I cannot remember what it was and I said, I don't understand why, oh, I know what it was, what's that I know what it was, now I'm not going to say I'm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, hold it some.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put it on the list something true today.

[SPEAKER_01]: I heard the other day where somebody was like, okay, Hollywood, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: remakes these movies or takes the animated versions and makes you know real life and all that it's like why don't we and I get why they do that don't come around because people say they want new stuff but then they go keep remaking stuff because when there's so many there that could be made that they're not making but they also have people pay to see the remake of a latin or whatever but like I know what I'm saying is why why not take the movies that had a great premise and almost got it right but still bombed and then remake them and make them [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, better so the kind of movies that need to be remade.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would not not stuff that's good that they just want to do a, you know, an updated version of the other night I watched.

[SPEAKER_02]: urban legend, the original.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ninety was at nine, ninety seven.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but the, but the, that one, it's not a title.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the original one is good.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sequels were not good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the, it's got a good cast and, and you know, but that's the one they'll remake.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even though it was okay in the first place, you know, on, yes, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes the remakes are okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, I've got plenty of them that I like, you know, that that that maybe did it a different way, but it was cool the second time around.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dawn of the dead's a perfect example.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I talk about a classic horror film, and then you've got a Zack Snyder version, and it's really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, good version.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we should do a season sometime like a our little bonus episode like we do, but it's like the the remakes we actually like better or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I could.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've got some.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the last.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is the last one for today.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you if you do have something you want to text to us, your opinion or something or question, whatever, you can send it to the hotline.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's two one seven seven nine one seven eight five nine and we might be able to use that on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you all set to wrap this thing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, thanks again for checking out the story and the post-mortment for this week's episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: We hope you love the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you do, we hope you'll share it with your friends, family, girls, people you meet on the street, on the bus, on the train, you know, wherever it hurts them to listen.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you get a chance, we hope you go to iTunes and leave us a five-star review.

[SPEAKER_02]: And don't forget that as an American Honning's Lister, you can use the discount code podcast for ten percent off any books, tours or events you purchase from our online store.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because just remember, American Honning's is more than just this podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's also books, tours, ghost hunts events, the haunted American conference, and the American Audities Museum in Illinois.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can find everything about us on the website at americanhontains.net.

[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Your turn.

[SPEAKER_01]: Your turn.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're welcome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Script.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this up to the American Honings podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was written there right by Troy Taylor.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was made produced and edited by me, Cody Beck, to find out who to show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Check out the show notes to go to our website at AmericanHoningspodcast.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to find out more about the podcast, you can reach us via email by text in the hotline or on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and a bunch of other social media spots.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we, you know, honestly just, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no one cares about threads or blue sky or any of that other stuff that came and went.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hundred percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so hey, they're on fire.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, go ahead.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good for let's think we couldn't definitely would do without you.

[SPEAKER_01]: So until next time, goodbye.

[SPEAKER_02]: So long.

[SPEAKER_02]: See you later.

[SPEAKER_02]: See you later.