(0:00) Welcome to the Tomorrow's World Today podcast. (0:04) We sit down with experts, world-changing innovators, (0:07) creators, and makers to explore how they're taking action (0:10) to make tomorrow's world a better place for technology, (0:14) science, innovation, sustainability, the arts, and more. (0:18) On this episode, host George Davison, (0:20) who is also the host of the TV series Tomorrow's World Today, (0:24) sits down with Doug White, (0:25) Executive Vice President of Water Solutions at NGL Energy Partners.
(0:30) Doug shares his journey from rural Missouri (0:32) to the executive ranks of one of America's leading midstream energy companies. (0:37) He reflects on the early experiences that shaped his leadership style, (0:41) the mentors who guided him, (0:43) and the challenges of managing water in modern oil and gas operations. (0:48) Welcome, Doug.
(0:49) Good morning. (0:50) I was hoping today we could spend a little time together (0:54) and if we could just kind of reflect back on some times (0:57) maybe you and I could shed some light on how we got here, right? (1:02) I mean, it doesn't just magically snap under the fingers (1:05) and the next thing you know you're an executive inside a major corporation. (1:09) So, can we go back? (1:12) First of all, why don't we talk a little bit about your title.
(1:17) What exactly do you do? (1:20) What's your title? (1:21) That kind of thing. (1:22) Sure. (1:23) So, I'm Executive Vice President of NGL Water Solutions, (1:27) which is one of the three segments of our business, of our company.
(1:31) And so, I'm tasked with setting strategy for the growth of the business (1:35) and then putting the team together to run a strong and successful organization. (1:41) Okay. (1:42) So, the business that you're in, can you describe a little bit about the business? (1:47) Yes.
(1:48) It's a unique business. (1:52) As many people understand, the energy business, we're a part of that. (1:57) We're specifically engaged in managing water in the oil and gas fields (2:02) and the shale plays in the United States.
(2:05) Okay. (2:05) So, one day you were in high school (2:08) and from what I understand you were a football player (2:11) and having some good times like we all did in high school. (2:14) And do you have any memories of those days (2:19) that maybe kind of got you started on a journey to get you where you are today? (2:24) Sure.
(2:25) You know, it's really interesting. (2:27) You said we didn't get here that quickly, (2:30) but as you get older you realize how quickly time goes (2:34) and you think about the decisions that you made (2:38) that took you on the journey where you are today. (2:41) For me, growing up in Northwest Missouri, a small farm community, (2:47) we learned whether we liked it or not to work hard (2:50) and make decisions that even as being younger you have to make (2:57) just because of where you're from.
(2:59) I was fortunate enough to have opportunities along the way. (3:03) It wasn't a clear path. (3:04) I didn't go to high school and say, (3:07) boy, I'm going to be in the oil field.
(3:08) Never dreamed of that or even thought about that. (3:11) But I was very focused on science in school. (3:16) It made sense to me and understood it (3:18) and down to the periodic table, which is kind of interesting.
(3:22) But as I moved forward through my career, (3:26) just different opportunities that I was able to take advantage of (3:30) or maybe recognize helped me move into the business of energy early in my career. (3:36) I was actually a commodities trader in the energy space (3:40) and actually wholesale electricity. (3:44) And then I traded for a while and it's a young man's game, (3:50) a lot of risk-taking and stress.
(3:52) And as I moved through that, (3:54) I had the opportunity to move over to the management side of the business (3:57) and really enjoyed that. (4:00) And as I got the opportunity to make decisions and set strategies (4:03) and lead a team, that just really, really fit me well. (4:09) Part of success is recognizing what fits you and taking that path.
(4:17) I was able to do that and it's brought me to where I am, (4:22) moved up the ladder and the position I'm in today (4:26) where I get to make a lot of decisions every day (4:28) and that's something that I'm comfortable with. (4:30) You never stop thinking about it. (4:34) There's a lot that goes along with it.
(4:36) I want to understand, you came from a real small school, right? (4:40) So coming from a small school in a rural area, (4:43) that didn't really work against you. (4:46) Maybe you got a work ethic that you brought forward from that farm world. (4:51) Is that safe to say? (4:52) Sure, it is.
(4:54) And it really relates to the oil field. (4:55) The oil field is full of many, many different kinds of workers, (5:02) and it's hard work and really aligns with where I came from. (5:08) We grew up, it was me and my two brothers, (5:11) and we woke up in the morning and if we weren't going to school, (5:16) we were in the field and we were working (5:18) and we were hoeing the weeds in the garden (5:21) and feeding the cattle and things like that.
(5:24) So we grew up with that and that carries on today (5:28) into the oil field and the hard work that goes on there. (5:34) Well, I think sometimes we overthink these things, even as adults, (5:39) wondering where is my life going and how do I make a career for myself. (5:44) It really doesn't need to be that complex.
(5:47) It's like you said, it's more or less I have interests and likes (5:52) and if I can identify a few of those along the way, (5:55) maybe spend a little more time in those zones, (6:00) I might find opportunity one day. (6:03) I think that's a pretty good way to say if you chase your dreams, (6:08) take some chances along the way, but work hard, (6:11) you may just find a life that you will enjoy for what your passions are. (6:17) What about mentors? (6:19) Did you have any mentors when you were younger? (6:21) Yes, certainly.
(6:22) Obviously my father, not so much a mentor as a leader, (6:28) a very strong leader, showing us how to work hard (6:31) and what it meant and what it took as far as that goes. (6:35) Then I was an athlete and in high school, (6:38) my high school football coach was a very good mentor to me (6:43) to help actually take my talents and help create something (6:47) from talents that I had that maybe I didn't realize I had. (6:51) Then as I moved through my career, I had several different mentors.
(6:56) The first business that we bought as NGL Water, (7:01) previous to that we were High Sierra Energy, a private company, (7:04) and we purchased our very first business in the water space. (7:10) The two gentlemen that owned that company as a private company, (7:14) they stayed on for two years, and they taught me the business. (7:19) They were excellent mentors about the business.
(7:22) It was a family business, and they showed how to surround yourself (7:26) with good people and always be open and honest with our customers. (7:33) We've carried that forward as we've grown to the size we have (7:37) as a public company, and we continue to carry that ethic on in our business (7:42) and be very straightforward and honest with not only our customers (7:46) but the regulators and all those around us, (7:50) which I've benefited greatly from that. (7:53) Then, of course, our CEO, Mike Krimble at NGL.
(7:57) He's an excellent leader, been a very successful businessman, (8:01) and he's been a great mentor to me and to my team. (8:05) Literally, he comes to our office in Denver, which is our corporates in Tulsa. (8:10) Mike comes to our office in Denver two days every week and spends time with us (8:14) and just continues that mentoring of not only myself but the other people on our team.
(8:21) Really nice. It's a life of learning, right? (8:23) It's not just I go get my high school degree, and then I'm finished learning. (8:29) That's a pretty good observation if you're sitting out there listening to this dialogue right now (8:34) because you're about, how old, 50? (8:37) I'll be 50 in January, yes, sir.
(8:39) So 50, and I'm a little shy of 60, and I have mentors in my life still today too. (8:46) So it's the desire to learn, the desire to continue to make your mark in life, (8:52) and then eventually we give back, right? (8:56) Yes, sir. (8:57) If you could go back into high school and redo one thing in your life, (9:02) what mistake would you admit to us today (9:06) that maybe wasn't the best thinking that you'd like to forget about? (9:10) I would have paid attention to my math class more.
(9:15) All right. I'm sure there's quite a few of those out there. (9:19) I'm a bit dyslexic with my math.
(9:22) I flip my fives and fours or a couple other numbers once in a while. (9:25) You drove my math teacher crazy. (9:27) Like, you know the formula, but you put the wrong answer down.
Why? (9:31) Back then they didn't know what to call that. (9:33) That's right. (9:35) How about hobbies? What do you like to do in your spare time? (9:39) I work a lot, and in my spare time I spend every single minute I can get in the day.
(9:45) My wife and I have five-year-old twin daughters. (9:49) So I spend all the time I can with those two little girls. (9:54) As far as a hobby goes, I say I work a lot.
(9:58) I love what I do. It's my passion. (10:01) I'm surrounded by very, very smart, intelligent, hard-working individuals.
(10:08) The team that we have. (10:10) I spend a lot of time with them. (10:12) We strategize and we look for innovation.
(10:16) We work hard to figure out how to do it differently than we're doing today. (10:20) And how we can do it better. (10:22) We're working to squeeze every inch out of everything that we do.
(10:27) For me, people ask me, what is your hobby? (10:31) Well, my hobby is work, but that's not a bad thing. (10:34) No, no. It means you've found your passion, right? (10:37) That's right.
(10:39) When we start getting into the life of a full family experience with work, (10:44) then we get into that balance situation. (10:46) How do we balance the work with the family time and really throw a switch? (10:52) Like when I'm going to be with my family, I need to be whole. (10:55) I need to be with them so I can enjoy that time and they enjoy it with me, right? (11:00) That's right.
(11:00) So even though we like to work, we do like our family time and other activity time. (11:07) So let's say, given where we are today, (11:13) concerning where innovation is going in your industry, (11:15) what do the jobs look like in the future? (11:19) As our industry changes, there's been a lot of focus on that. (11:26) What we do in water bridges between ESG type of innovative, (11:34) maybe alternative type movements versus the traditional oil and gas business.
(11:41) So we get to be a part of both of those. (11:44) My advice would be focus on the technical side of things. (11:49) Some people are more inclined to that.
Some are not. (11:51) But even if you're not inclined to that, try to put some focus on that. (11:58) And I think not only in our industry but other industries, (12:01) technical expertise is always going to be in demand.
(12:06) So that's the math comment earlier. (12:09) And then today we do a lot with STEM and STEAM. (12:13) So science, technology, engineering, art, and math, (12:17) all basically working together with hands-on experience.
(12:21) Never hurts to have that kind of know-how going into the oil industry. (12:26) Sure, that's right. (12:27) And there are many different kinds of jobs in the oil industry.
(12:30) And that combination of using your intelligence (12:36) but also being able to use your hands and to put that together. (12:42) And that thought process that you learn through STEM and STEAM, (12:46) it really develops those skills, and that's very important for our industry. (12:50) So you mentioned earlier, at the place you are in your career now, (12:57) you mentioned strategy.
(13:00) Can you speak a little bit to how you—first of all, why do you like it? (13:05) And were there any indicators that kind of helped you (13:09) to find that that's something that you enjoy? (13:11) Yeah, strategy is, put simply, strategy is planning for the future (13:16) and making moves, making decisions on every step that you take (13:21) about how is this going to affect our future. (13:26) And I have some nephews that have come to me and said, (13:29) you know, Uncle Doug, how did you get to where you are (13:32) and how are you so successful? (13:34) And I always tell them, really, half of it is showing up. (13:40) And then the next 25% is hard work.
(13:44) And then if you show up and work hard, well, you have to have a strategy. (13:49) And if you have a strategy and you're planning and you have a plan, (13:53) that's going to take you the next 25% of the way to success. (13:57) Then the other piece is, as you do that, you create momentum.
(14:01) And momentum, what is momentum? Moving forward. (14:04) There's positive momentum and there's some things and decisions (14:07) that you make that may slow your momentum. (14:11) And as you think strategically and you make decisions, (14:15) you're looking and saying, how do I make a decision (14:17) that will create positive momentum (14:20) and not slow our momentum as an organization or as a business? (14:25) And we focus very heavily on that.
(14:28) So, you know, really the bottom line is to be successful, (14:31) you need to have a strategy. (14:33) That's a really good way to describe it. (14:35) So thank you very much for that.
(14:38) So with that kind of thinking, do you believe anybody can be successful, Doug? (14:43) I do. And I believe we're extremely fortunate to be in this country (14:47) where opportunity continues to be offered. (14:53) And really anybody can be successful if they take advantage of their opportunities.
(14:58) And no matter how small or how large the opportunities there, (15:03) if you reach out and grab ahold of them and follow your gut, (15:07) I think you're on your way to be successful. (15:10) Agreed. (15:12) So let's kind of move into the future a little bit, if we could, (15:16) with your organization.
(15:19) And what would be something that you're working on (15:22) that you could talk in general about (15:26) that would benefit, you know, innovation that would benefit humankind going forward? (15:30) So we started our business as a recycling business (15:34) for the oil-filled wastewater back in the early 2000s. (15:38) And we really dove into it, and at the time it was very, very innovative. (15:45) And that was an operation in Wyoming (15:50) that really turned out to be just a unique experience (15:55) due to the fact of its location.
(15:57) We moved on into Colorado with the recycling effort, (16:03) and it really fell flat on its face. (16:05) It was not economic. (16:07) And after that, we looked at it and said, (16:10) boy, we're not sure we'll ever recycle to the degree we did in Wyoming again.
(16:15) We were able in Wyoming to take water from the oil field and gas field up there (16:21) and treat it to better-than-drinking-water quality (16:25) and put it back into the river. (16:28) It's a blue-ribbon trout fishing stream. (16:31) It still is today.
(16:32) And we've done that for over a decade. (16:34) Extremely successful project. (16:36) So then as our business grew and we became more involved, (16:42) there's a really big shale play.
(16:44) It's called the Delaware Basin in southeastern New Mexico (16:47) and west Texas, the Permian. (16:49) People may be familiar with that. (16:51) There's an enormous amount of water being produced out of that field down there.
(16:57) And we are working, amongst others in our industry, (17:02) but NGL is working very hard with both the political side of Texas and New Mexico. (17:09) We're supporting the water consortiums, which are New Mexico State (17:15) and other different schools, Texas Tech and Texas side, (17:19) to come up with ideas of how we can take this water and do things with it. (17:26) One item that we're working on is actually treating this water, (17:30) cleaning it with this water, and potentially putting it, (17:33) re-injecting it to the aquifers.
(17:35) There are many towns in west Texas that they are really running out of water, (17:41) even to irrigate, feed their animals, do things like that. (17:46) They're running out. (17:47) And it's a very heavily water-stressed part of our country.
(17:53) So we're working on innovative solutions to be able to bridge that gap (17:57) and take all of this oil-filled wastewater, treat it economically, (18:01) and then actually be able to have beneficial reuse of that water, (18:07) be it irrigation, re-inject it into aquifers, grow cotton, do different things with that. (18:14) So we're very focused on that. (18:16) We will get there as an industry, and we're heavily incented to do that (18:22) because, interestingly enough, there's so much water that it could become (18:27) a bottleneck to the production of oil.
(18:31) The driver is the valuable oil, and when those economics come together, (18:36) you create a solution, and that's what our industry is working on currently. (18:41) How long has that work been going on, Doug? (18:44) I would say in the Delaware Basin really the last 5 years. (18:48) Wow.
So it's young. (18:49) It is very young, yes, and we're making great strides already. (18:54) And a large part of the ability to do it, we can treat the water.
(18:59) Economics is a large driver. (19:02) Obviously $100 oil really helps drive that (19:05) because now there's more value in the commodity, (19:08) of which then more money can be spent on things like water treatment. (19:12) But the other part of it is the social license to operate, to do things.
(19:18) Produced water, it's not typical things people are aware of or understand. (19:25) So there's a lot of education going on through the consortium, (19:29) so the Produced Water Consortium in New Mexico, (19:32) Produced Water Consortium in Texas. (19:34) We've taken the higher educational entities like Texas Tech and New Mexico State, (19:40) and we have supported their labs in testing the water, (19:45) looking for testing mechanisms that maybe don't exist today (19:48) to understand the constituents in the water (19:51) so that we're making sure whatever we do with that water, (19:54) it's safe for human consumption.
(19:57) So for the audience, they may never have heard the term produced water. (20:02) Would you please describe what that means (20:04) so they understand what we're trying to get across? (20:06) In fracking, fracking is the way that oil and gas is produced (20:12) in the shale place here. (20:14) Typically, if you go to Saudi Arabia, there are large reservoirs, (20:18) subsurface of oil, and it's like they take a straw, (20:22) drill a hole, you take a straw and put it in there and pump that oil out.
(20:26) Mostly here in North America, those commodities or the oil products (20:31) are in the ground in shale between little smaller reservoirs. (20:39) So they have to take water and sand and pump down into those formations, (20:45) and then they basically, I always say, (20:47) it's like you take a bowl of Lay's potato chips, (20:50) and you smash them, and they fall, (20:54) and then obviously those air spaces would be where the oil is, (20:58) and that oil and gas gets produced out. (21:00) You use water to do that, to carry the sand, (21:03) to carry the constituents to, quote, frack.
(21:07) But also in those formations where you're producing the oil, (21:11) there's also water. (21:12) It's been there for a very long time. (21:14) It's typically very brackish and salty, so saltwater.
(21:21) And I don't know how much you know about saltwater, (21:24) but if you took saltwater and you put it in your garden, (21:26) your plants would die. (21:27) So that high salinity has to be handled. (21:33) That high salinity water has to be handled appropriately, (21:36) and we don't want it on the ground, (21:39) and you don't want it anywhere that you're trying to maintain grass (21:45) or wheat.
(21:46) We're out in New Mexico, and it's the desert, (21:48) but there's still desert animals, desert plants, things like that, (21:51) and that water has to be handled appropriately. (21:54) So we take that water and we put it on pipelines, right, (22:00) so that it's just like a sewage system even in the city. (22:04) That comes out of the ground.
(22:06) That water's produced. (22:08) When it comes out, it goes straight into tanks. (22:12) Then our pipelines are tied into the tank batteries, (22:15) and then we move those waters through pipelines to a lot of reuse.
(22:20) So reuse meaning that goes right through our batteries. (22:25) You take out the small constituents that still remain. (22:27) There's a little bit of oil left in it.
(22:30) Of course, there's going to be some solids and things left in as well. (22:33) So when they say produced water, it is truly produced out of the ground. (22:38) Some of it from the frack, but down in the Delaware Basin, (22:43) there's a lot of, I think it's four barrels of water (22:46) to one barrel of oil produced.
(22:48) You end up with four barrels of water. (22:50) So they're producing a lot of oil out of that area, (22:54) so there's an extreme amount of water being produced, (22:57) and that's why we call it produced water. (22:58) It's interesting.
(23:00) Now that it's a young area, five years old, (23:04) it'll be, from my perspective anyway, (23:06) really interesting to see what can come from that. (23:10) If you're in areas where there isn't a whole lot of water yet, (23:13) you go down, you do the fracking, (23:15) you have basically a new water supply as long as it's clean. (23:21) But all these little steps take time and money, (23:24) and like all technology in the beginning, (23:27) it's usually complex and doesn't work as efficiently, etc., etc.
(23:32) But in time, if you put enough human beings on it (23:36) that want to really solve a problem, (23:40) STEM's team, look at that challenge, (23:43) and maybe that would get you started on saying, (23:46) hey, I think I could help solve that challenge (23:48) and get on the bandwagon and try to help out. (23:52) There are lots of challenges out there, right? (23:53) That's right. (23:55) All right, so what about just for the general industry as a whole? (24:02) What's the next big innovation coming? (24:05) Well, one interesting innovation is in the drilling rigs in the oil field.
(24:11) A drilling rig is a large expense of an oil well, (24:17) and labor is a big expense in the oil field. (24:21) And so there's always innovation around how do we become more efficient. (24:27) One of the things they're doing, (24:28) they've been testing it the last couple of years, (24:30) are drilling rigs that are run remotely.
(24:34) So they started with drilling rigs saying, (24:36) hey, let's not run a rig off of diesel. (24:38) Let's run off of electricity. (24:41) So they've done that.
(24:42) It becomes less emissions. (24:46) And now they've taken the next step and said, (24:48) hey, let's get all these people off of the drilling rig. (24:51) Down on the floor of the drilling rig is very dangerous, (24:54) a lot of risk for personal injury, (24:58) which is in the oil field, lost time incidents due to injury (25:02) are very, very serious, and we take it very seriously (25:05) and work very hard to make sure everyone comes home safely at night.
(25:09) But now they've got to the point where they're able to run remote drilling (25:14) from central command centers that are not even in the same area. (25:19) They may be in Midland running out of the command center in Midland, (25:22) and they're in New Mexico running a drilling rig. (25:25) So that is an extreme amount of efficiencies they have found for drilling rigs, (25:31) not even on the environmental side.
(25:34) Hey, let's get rid of the diesel-driven rigs. (25:36) Let's get to electric. (25:38) Now it's, boy, let's run this from a command center.
(25:42) When I've gone to the drilling rigs, (25:44) typically what you see is a very young engineer, (25:47) and they're running it with a joystick. (25:49) And it's really interesting to think, you know, you see, (25:54) I'm going to be 50, so I'm going to date myself a little bit here, (25:57) but you see the kids playing the video games. (25:59) And, you know, as a parent, you're going, oh, my gosh, (26:02) I don't want my kids playing video games all the time.
(26:04) But you can see where that's applied on the drilling rig. (26:08) And now they've taken it into a remote command center, (26:12) and it's much like playing a video game. (26:15) Their screens are up.
(26:16) They're looking where they're drilling and where they're deviating from the plan. (26:21) It's all GPS. (26:23) They're processing information from these screens continuously, (26:27) running the drilling rig from a joystick.
(26:30) So that's extremely innovative and very exciting for the industry. (26:35) That is exciting. (26:37) Just out of curiosity, how many employees are we talking about at NGL? (26:41) In the water business, NGL Water Solutions, we have about 215 employees.
(26:46) All of NGL, we're just under 1,000. (26:49) Just under 1,000. Are you hiring? (26:52) We're always hiring.
(26:54) See? There's plenty of opportunity out there for you. (26:58) That's right. (26:58) Especially right now, obviously, our services are in very high demand.
(27:04) Delaware Basin has about 50 years of runway of development ahead of us. (27:11) So a lot of companies are heavily investing in that area, (27:15) and that takes human capital as an investment as well. (27:20) Sure does.
(27:22) Well, Doug, I would like to thank you for your time today (27:24) and sharing your insights with our audience. (27:26) Do you have anything left to say? (27:29) I don't know. I just appreciate being here, (27:30) and we're very excited about our business, (27:33) excited about the innovations of the oil and gas industry, (27:37) and we're really excited about the future.
(27:41) So are we. Bye, everybody. (27:44) Thank you for listening to this episode of Tomorrow's World Today podcast.
(27:48) Join us next time as we continue to explore the worlds of inspiration, (27:52) creation, innovation, and production. (27:54) Discover more at tomorrowsworldtoday.com, (27:57) connect with us on social media at TWT Explore, (28:00) and find us wherever podcasts are available.