Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast and I hope what you hear today will encourage and edify you so that you'll get out there in the marketplace of ideas and live for him by being an ambassador for Christ.

But before you listen and before you go to that marketplace of ideas, I'd love to tell you about this month's Truth Tool.

It's written by Anne Graham Lotz, and it's called The Vision of His Glory.

It's an study of the Book of Revelation, and it's one of the best I've ever read.

Instead of being overwhelmed by the Book of Revelation thinking it's all about judgment and tribulation, you will discover that the Book of Revelation is all about Jesus.

Learn why Jesus is unequaled in his position, undisputed in his power, and unsurpassed in praise.

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Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

The conference was over.

The president won a pledge.

Americans worshiping government over God.

Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.

The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

Today is not.

Kevin is going to be just so unbelievable.

I mean, it's going to be a Paradise.

Anything that you could imagine.

Ten times that.

No more worry, no more crying.

No more pain.

Just beautiful.

I describe heaven as the presence of God.

Well, I would imagine, uh, it's probably not what we'd like to think that it is.

It's great Paradise or that sort of thing.

But I would imagine it's, um, us living with, uh, with Jesus praising him constantly.

Oh, no, I don't really believe in the, uh, spiritual heaven.

I think we can have heaven on earth.

You know.

It's just going to be much better than we have it here.

It's just the best there is.

Peaceful.

Unbelievable.

What heaven would be like.

It'd be wonderful than this.

It'd be more wonderful than this.

Hello friends.

Welcome to In the Market with Janet partial.

In full disclosure, I am thrilled we are going to spend the hour talking about Heaven.

With all the madness going on on planet Earth right now, I can't think of a better way to spend an hour than to set our mind on things above.

And I'm so glad that you're joining me this hour.

As long as you realize that this is such an important conversation, by the time it's over, and I'm talking to people from Guam all the way over there to the Cayman Islands, I want to make sure, you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, whether or not you are going to go to heaven.

Otherwise this conversation is meaningless to you.

We'll get to that.

In the course of this conversation with Pastor Philip Decoursey, I'm thrilled he's back on the program.

He is the senior pastor of Kindred Community Church and a dynamic speaker on the national media program known as No The Truth.

He was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

He trusted Christ as his Savior.

When he was 16 years old, he became an engineer, spent six years as a part time reserve police officer in North Belfast.

And if you're a good student of world affairs.

You understand there was a lot of tension and terrorism that were taking place in that part of the world at that time.

And after being called to full time ministry and getting a pastoral training, he then spent six years at Kaa Baptist Church in Lisburn, which is a suburb of Belfast.

But in 1994 he packed up and moved his family to the United States, graduated from the master's Seminary, served in churches in Southern California and Central Ohio before becoming senior pastor at kindred in 2007.

He joins us today with a brand new book called Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity.

Note to file if you don't hear anything else this hour, remember this.

This is not as good as it gets.

Philip, the warmest of welcomes.

I am thrilled you're here.

And before we dive into this wonderful conversation on a book that you wrote so excellently about heaven, I have to ask you, out of all that wonderful, rich Irish blood coursing through your veins, what in the world caused you to pack up and say, I think it should be the US now.

Well, that's a great question, Gianna.

Thank you for the invite to be with you and your listeners on Moody Radio.

Appreciate you.

I've followed you and watched you from a distance over the years.

Appreciated some of your writing material.

It's part of my library, so it's a it's a privilege and a joy for me to join you.

Um, you know what?

I could start big picture as a boy, uh, growing up in Northern Ireland, there was always two countries I always imagined or wondered if I'd ever live in or get to someday.

The first country was Israel, and the second country was the United States.

Uh, that was my dreams.

But I was to soon realize in the providence of God, at least, the United States was part of God's plan and purpose for me.

If you asked me what drove me, I'd cut a long story short, uh, as you outlined, uh, was an engineer in the aerospace industry for a while, spent some time in the RUC during the troubles.

And all of that was an education in itself and prepared me for pastoral ministry.

I think man and others in our congregation can identify with me not only as an expositor of God's Word, but just the stuff had gone through, especially on the security side.

Uh, certainly can identify with our law enforcement and all that.

They deal with, uh, scapegoating and all of that that I dealt with and we dealt with.

But, um, was a pastor, my wife's from Scotland.

We settled into our ministry and in John, uh, God, in his providence, uh, brought John MacArthur into my life.

That's another story.

He came and preached for me.

And, uh, when he left and shared with me his vision for training men, I.

He invited me.

Hey, why don't you think about coming to the master's seminary?

I go, well, I'm in a church.

I've already done a degree in theological study.

Uh, we're nested here.

Three little daughters.

But I was reading a wonderful book John called The All Round Ministry by C.H.

Spurgeon.

It's a series of messages.

He gave one each year to the students of his Bible college in London, and in it he talks about the need to be your best.

And the analogy he gives.

And he's thinking about young preachers in London who said, hey, I'd love to go to school, but I can't take time out.

Souls are perishing.

Hell is filling.

Uh, we need to urgently preach the gospel.

Now I don't have time to study.

And Spurgeon said this God can blow through any ram's horn.

But if you can become a silver trumpet, choose that rather.

And actually, I read that on a beach in Majorca, off the coast of Spain, with my wife had got away for our first break in a few years with our three little daughters and I, and she must have thought I was off my rocker.

I touched her shoulder.

I said, I want to become a silver trumpet and I want to go to the master's seminary.

Now, initially.

Hey!

That's nutty.

We're not doing that.

That's crazy.

We've got three little girls.

You've got a church, you've got ministry, you've got all that a man would desire.

And in some ways she was right.

But, uh, you know, we just, uh, acknowledged the passing of John MacArthur, a generational leader, uh, a good friend to me.

I said, John, this is an opportunity I don't want to miss.

And so, um, I want to be my best.

I was in my 30s, I believe, at the time.

And and I said, hey, let's get ready for the rest.

And eventually, God brought our hearts together.

And John opened the door.

And initially, Janet, we didn't come out intending to stay, but a church opened up in Santa Clarita.

I ended up doing my master's degree there, ended up being on the board there for 12 years alongside John.

But I'll stop there because we've got other things to talk about.

But I hope that's a challenge to all of us.

You know, we'll take different paths, but let's be our best for for Christ.

And if that means extra education, that means a decision that has got challenges and costs to it.

Whatever it takes, God give his best for us in the gospel.

Let's give our best to him.

Oh, amen and amen.

A silver trumpet.

And that's just the first segment with Pastor Phillip Decoursey.

His work, his teachings, his writings.

Absolutely fabulous.

And now he's taken up the topic of heaven.

We think we know something about it, but we really don't.

And then we subscribe to, I think, a very problematic axiom that says, don't be so heavenly minded, you're no earthly good.

Maybe we've got that backwards.

Maybe we need to be thinking more about heaven.

We'll talk and get an answer to that question about whether or not you can think too much about heaven right after this.

The Book of Revelation isn't just about judgment and tribulation, it's about Jesus.

That's why I've chosen the Vision of His Glory by Anne Graham Lotz as this month's truth Tool.

Learn why Christ is unequaled in his position, undisputed in his power, and unsurpassed in praise.

As for your copy of the Vision of His glory, when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, just call eight 7758, that's eight 7758 or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall.

Evan.

Well, like the movies depicted as a very beautiful place.

Oh, wow.

Heaven is a place where we are redeemed in Christ and are in the presence of God.

Um, I believe that our daily lives will be pretty similar to these, um, with jobs and, um, this sort of setting.

Um, and everything we do will perfectly worship God.

I guess it would just be all right, whatever you call it.

I can't answer that.

But it's going to be good, though.

Whatever.

I don't understand, but anyway, uh, I hope it comes out real good.

I would think it would be, uh, I mean, amazing, uh, inclusive.

Uh.

And peaceful.

Heavenly.

Beautiful.

Hopefully.

Well, hopefully there's no pain, physical pain.

A dance party, a dance party 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Dance party.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, that's why we're having a conversation about heaven.

This man on the street.

You can see some very wild and wide opinions on that.

Pastor Philip Decoursey is our teacher.

This our senior pastor at Kindred Community Church in Anaheim Hills, California.

Brand new book out on this topic, Life After Life exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity.

So, pastor, I want to go right to where I alluded to this in the first segment together you start brilliantly at this point by referencing Paul's words in Colossians, where we set our mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

And I have heard such interesting and kind of fruitless conversations about this idea about don't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good.

That seems to stand in diametric opposition to what Paul said about setting my mind on things above.

Raises a good question, though, for maturing saints.

Why should we be thinking about heaven?

Yeah, I mean, that statement is has no theological foundation.

Um, if anything were so earthly minded, we're of no heavenly use.

I think that's a greater danger to the church.

Worldliness, materialism.

That's what the New Testament writers address.

More than you know.

Maybe you have one episode in First Thessalonians of fatigue, fever, uh, you know, uh, run amok.

But no, um, yes, Lewis said.

A fellow man from Belfast.

He said those who thought most about the next life did the most in this life, and I believe that.

How did Martyrs Janet face death?

They faced it with courage.

Thinking about heaven.

How do missionaries leave home and friends and comfort and sacrifice?

Because they believed there was reward in the next life.

And so, as you read the New Testament, it's clear that we are to to understand heaven, not just as a destination.

And it is that there's a narrow road, and at the end of it there's life eternal.

But it's not just a destination.

It's a state of mind.

It's a mindset.

It's an orientation.

That's what we're at in Colossians.

Set your affection on things above.

Set your mind on things above, not on things below.

Now, Paul's not talking about a monastic life.

He's not talking about severing our earthly relationships and and running from our earthly responsibilities.

He's simply saying that heaven needs to invade every corner of life.

And as you study the New Testament, you see, if it's if it's about money, think about heaven and line it up there.

If it's about suffering, remember that your present sufferings nothing to be compared with.

For the glory that awaits us.

If you're being persecuted or pressured by a christless culture, well, remember, great will your reward be in heaven.

And so, as you read the New Testament, again and again and again, the writers are saying, let the thought of heaven sanctify you, give you courage, um, call you to sacrifice.

In Philippians 321, we're called citizens of heaven.

How interesting is that?

Quick analogy.

Philippi was a colony of Rome, 800 miles from Rome.

So when you visited Philippi, you felt you were in Rome.

Its laws, its architecture, its lifestyle.

And Paul is saying to the church, we're a night post of an eternal kingdom.

And when people meet a Christian, they they should see someone governed by by God, governed by Christ, governed by heavenly values, governed by another worldly kingdom.

And I try to bring that out, as you say in the first chapter of the book, Heaven Can't Wait.

There was a great Puritan called Richard Sibbes, and it was said of him, of that blessed man heaven was in him before he was in heaven.

And that needs to be true of us.

Amen and amen.

So I think the first question I have to ask you that's of grave importance is how can I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when I breathe my last, I will be absent from the body and present with the Lord?

How do I know for sure?

Well, we can know for sure by claiming the promise of Christ who came from heaven.

Jesus Christ is God's sent son.

He's God in flesh and the God above.

The son who dwells in heaven, came to below the son through His Son Jesus Christ, to pay for our sin on the cross, which the sin which will keep us out of heaven unless it's fully forgiven and completely covered.

And the beauty of the gospel is that God didn't sit in heaven.

God sent His Son from heaven to redeem us.

And Jesus said, I'm the way and I'm the truth, and no man comes to the father but by me.

That's in John 14 where he says, I go to prepare a place for people who trust me and they can come to the heaven I have come from.

And so that's the beauty.

Think about the thief on the cross.

Uh, Janet, who who at some high gathered that this one hanging on the center cross was different and had a sense that he was the king of the Jews and maybe the King of kings, and said, you know what?

When this day is done, when you go to your kingdom, don't forget me.

And Jesus says, today you will be with me in Paradise.

We need to put our faith in the one who hung on that center cross for us.

And the assurance is, is is clear and confident.

We can die and know that it's absent from the body and present with the Lord, which I talk about in the book of second Corinthians five.

Wow.

That's paramount, because if you look at some of the research done by Doctor George Brown of people who profess to be Christians, up to 45% still think it has something to do with your good works.

It isn't by faith alone.

By grace alone.

Uh, for the work that Christ has done for us on the cross at Calvary.

So I'm thankful that with clarity, you just let people know exactly what it takes to get into heaven.

It's not what we do.

It's what he has done in for and through us.

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

So now if you know that beyond a shadow of a doubt, what has happened going to be like?

We know of heaven, but we don't really know about heaven.

That's why this book, Life After Life, is so timely.

More with Pastor Philip Decoursey right after this.

Heaven.

I would say heaven on earth.

Just absolute perfection of life, I don't know.

Soft billowy clouds.

Happiness.

Seeing people that I miss.

Heaven is having positive thoughts, being nice to people and helping people be happy.

That's what my Lord and Savior.

Your Lord and Savior to.

That's where he is.

Wherever he is, is peaceful.

Even if in here it's peaceful amongst all this worldly clutter place.

Without evil.

I don't picture heaven to be honest.

No stress, no worries.

All smiles.

Men in the street.

Why?

You and I should be prepared to give a reason for the hope that resides within us.

Listen to that wide variety of topics.

So again, I think people believe overwhelmingly that heaven exists.

I believe overwhelmingly people think by the majority that they're going to land there, but they really don't know much about it.

That's why I'm so grateful for the work of Philip de courses, a marvelous teacher, by the way.

He's on the daily media program Know the Truth, and he's an excellent author.

His latest book is called Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity.

And you get into the pragmatics, which I hope to in a bit as well.

But I want to go to your alliteration about heaven for a little bit.

You say that heaven is a promised, a proper, a prepared and a protected place.

Talk to me about that.

Yeah.

That's, uh, I think chapter three.

Um, and it's all based on John 14, which is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If we want to know about heaven, well, let's listen to the one who came from heaven, uh, the son of the father.

And, um, it's a promise place.

Uh, Jesus tells us if it weren't so, uh, you know, uh, I would have told you.

And so what he's talking about there is real.

Um, it's certainly Jesus is echoing, uh, some of the promises of the Old Testament.

And certainly the apostles will pick up that promise and, uh, talk about a new heaven and a new earth.

Talk about being in the presence of the Lord.

Um, it's it's so it's a it's a promise place, and it's it's a prepared place in that Jesus has gone to prepare it for people who trust in him.

Uh, if if it comes to trusting Jesus.

I have a little statement, John.

I often use we've got to put our faith where God put our sin, and that's in the Lord Jesus Christ.

And Christ has paid for our sin.

As we said, Christ has removed the barrier between man and God.

And so he has gone to prepare a place for those who have trusted in him.

And the thought that I at least camp on a little bit, uh, may be stretching my imagination, but if, if if God took six days to create this wonderful world.

Although scarred with sin, Jesus has been working on something for us for 2000 years, so I can't begin to imagine how wonderful.

As I say in the book, it's a special place.

It's a spacious place.

It's a spectacular place.

Um, and it's a place.

Uh, that's another thing we need to underscore.

I listening to your, uh, interviews with people on the street.

Um, heaven is not.

It's a state of mind in one sense.

It's a mindset.

But it's not a state of mind.

It's an actual place.

It's as real as London, New York, Beijing and Moscow.

Uh, Paul, Paul talks about there's the third heaven.

There's the heaven we see by day.

There's the heaven we see by night.

And as Adrian Rogers said, there's a heaven we see by faith.

And the throne of God is there, God is there, Christ is there in body.

As he carried his humanity to the heights of the throne, the departed souls of the saints of God are there.

So it's a place and, uh, it's a protected place.

We won't get in there unless we know.

Uh, Christ, who's already in there?

A little bit of an interesting part of my life is.

Long story short, I actually stood once inside the white House in the Oval Office.

Janet, not too many people get to do that.

Long story short, I had a friend here in America when I visited, had a friend who worked in the white House.

This was the Jimmy Carter days that far back.

And, uh, I got to go.

We got into the West Wing.

They took my passport at the gate.

I was invited in by someone on the inside of the west, uh, inside of the white House.

We got a tour of where the the the the press conferences take place, and I was actually taken to the Oval Office.

Two guards were standing outside.

The president wasn't there.

He was on an international trip, and there was a kind of red, uh, rope.

And I kind of used my Irish blarney.

And I talked the guy, and I said, I haven't come this far not to step foot in the in the Oval Office.

So let me literally put my ankle and my foot under the rope and touch the carpet inside the Oval Office so I can say I've stood inside the white House and I've stepped inside the Oval Office.

But how did I get into that secure place?

One of the most guarded places in the world because I knew someone on the inside.

And the key?

Heaven is a protected place.

Nobody's getting there, um, by their own works, their own righteousness.

Uh, we're getting there because the God who dwells there sent his son to us.

The son did his work on our behalf, returned to the right hand of God, a prince and a Savior.

And it is a guarded place.

And the only way we're getting through those pearly gates is of Jesus.

The key to heaven comes and unlocks them for us.

And he does that, and I he did that for me as a young man of 16 on the streets of Belfast.

And he'll do that for any listener today who's willing to own their sin.

Know that they've offended God, fallen short of his glory.

Know that the gap between them and an infinite god is so wide it takes a God man to bridge it.

And Jesus Christ is that God man, the only mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

And if someone wants to write their title deed to heaven, they've got to write the word Jesus on it and truly believe that he can get them there, and he will indeed open the door into his Father's presence.

Amen.

I love the way you break down John 14 six because often people will say, well, how do you know that belief in Jesus is the only way to heaven?

And you break it down beautifully by saying this Jesus exclusively claimed to be the way to be saved.

The truth about God, the life that leads to heaven.

I am the way, the truth, and the life he said in the book is just rich, and there's no way I'm going to get through all of this.

So I'm just I'm getting you to start thinking about heaven, and then I hope I get you to motivated enough to be able to get a copy of the book and read it for yourself.

One of the things that Philip does is he gets very pragmatic about what the Bible teaches us about heaven.

So let's look at some of the logistics of heaven and the life that's yet to come right after this.

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How would I describe heaven?

Um.

Better than earth.

I don't believe in heaven.

So, yeah.

I don't think there's really anything there.

Describe heaven.

Ah.

Uh, the best place.

Well, physically, I don't know if I can describe it too well, but, um, it will be glorious and joyous and just full of worship and fellowship and just absolutely beautiful in every way possible.

Those people are all houses, I guess.

Just a place with no suffering and love.

I think it'll be a great place, a Paradise.

I would say where everything's perfect and there's no worries.

Mm.

You know, when someone says, I don't believe in heaven, I don't believe that.

Because the Bible tells us that God has placed eternity in our hearts.

Now, they might not call it heaven, but I would wager that they absolutely believe that if there was a beginning, there is an end.

And it constantly raises the question of whether or not if there is something after death, what happens to them.

And then man so often defaults to his own merits, which is where it gets very interesting and why conversations like this with Pastor Philip Decoursey are so tremendously important.

He's senior pastor of Kindred Community Church in Anaheim Hills, California.

He's also the teacher on the daily program Know the Truth, and he's written the book Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity.

So I want to roll up my sleeves and get into the pragmatics, because you do this in the book, and I'm so glad that you do, because so many of these answers are amorphous.

Even those who believe in heaven, they're a bit amorphous, including the cloud business, which we can thank the Renaissance artists for putting that in our brain.

But let's go back to what the Bible says.

This is what matters most.

So I breathed my last.

The Bible tells me I'm absent from the body and present with the Lord.

This is before the rapture where the dead in Christ will rise first.

So what happens to me as a believer in Jesus Christ when I breathe my last.

Yeah, I deal with that in a chapter called During the interval and I go to first, second Corinthians five 1 to 8.

Every chapter is based on a passage that gives us some insight and illumination to this.

And Paul uses the the image of the body being like clothing.

Uh, he doesn't use that in a Gnostic way.

It's something we want to discard, but he uses it.

The word we're closed, we're unclothed, and we're further closed to talk about the different stages and experiences we all go through.

So right now, Janet, we're closed.

We're we've got a body and a spirit and we're a whole person.

But when death comes, our our soul doesn't die.

It doesn't sleep.

Our spirit doesn't cease to exist.

Our bodies fall asleep in the sense that we bury them in the ground.

They're dead.

They need to be resurrected and reanimated in that sense.

And then we become unclothed.

And that's absent from the body and present with the Lord.

And if you think about that, that rules out the idea of soul sleep, that we get into some limbo state.

Um, it rules out the doctrine of purgatory, that there's some third place, some third experience.

It's either heaven or hell for those that die.

And if you die in Christ where he is, we you can be.

If you die without Christ, where he is, you cannot be.

And at that point, we're unclothed.

So I believe that my loved ones, our friends, the saints, uh, are in heaven right now, but without a body.

There's some debate among scholars.

Did they get a temporary one?

I don't think so.

That there's nothing in the Bible that's explicit about that.

Because we're left hoping for the resurrection, as you say, at the rapture and the return of Christ for his people.

And when that happens, then Paul uses, we become further clothed and that body is better.

And I talk about that in another chapter called The New You.

But those are the three stages where we're in our present state.

We're clothed with a body that's subject to death.

Then we die.

We separate from our body, but become unclothed.

And then when Jesus returns, he brings the Spirit's first Thessalonians four with him and their bodies which have been asleep, rise.

And we who are alive and remain, we're translated in a split second first Corinthians 15, and together we're with the Lord and this new body.

Uh, it's going to be a wonderful experience.

Some of your listeners might know of Oswald Chambers when he died, that the telegram and the message from night to his friends, Oswald Chambers in his presence.

And that's what death is for us, absent from the body present with the Lord.

And and those the partisans are praying for us.

We don't pray to them, but it seems like they're praying to Christ to revenge the blood of the martyrs to put his enemies under his feet.

There the before the throne of God worshipping revelation four and five.

And they're there.

They're they're in a state of perfection, although without a body, as some of your interviews showed, they're they're calm, they're at peace.

They're beyond the reach of temptation and molestation of the evil one.

Uh, my mother went to be with the Lord just two years ago.

And I know, uh, as much as we would like her to be back, she doesn't want to come back.

That's right.

If we love our loved ones, we want the best for them.

Just let them enjoy heaven.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

They're not looking back by any stretch of the imagination.

They're looking forward.

Well, to that end, just.

And again, I could talk for hours about this subject and you said something important.

I want to underscore it, which is I love all of the conversations about what will happen and what it will be like, and the new heaven and the new earth, etc.

but primarily I have changed over the years where my focus now is Jesus.

All of the other stuff will come to pass because he's King and Lord, and he's a promise keeper.

But if my first thought about heaven isn't that I'm going to be in the presence of Jesus, I've got this backwards, don't I?

Absolutely.

I mean, there's the old line and the old hymn where Jesus is, tis heaven there.

And fundamentally, heaven is about, uh, seeing the face of of the King.

Uh, we look in the mirror darkly, but then face to face.

First Corinthians 13.

And that's going to be the best part of it.

Look, I have a chapter on plenty to do and all that we will do.

We'll we'll rest from our labors.

We'll see what God did in our lives.

I think God will explain something of the mystery of his providences, as we can only darkly, vaguely understand all that God's up to.

I love the fact that Ephesians two 6 to 7, that he will spend the ages showing us the exceeding riches of his grace, the redemption story, all that was involved in the coming of the Lord Jesus.

Ephesians two seven.

We'll, we'll we'll be with loved ones.

We'll we'll sing, we'll praise.

We'll see the King.

Isaiah 3317.

When I was an intern in a Baptist church in Belfast.

I need to get this in quickly.

We heard that Princess Diana was coming to Belfast.

And if you know the troubles for Protestants and those who were pro-British, having a royal in the province was a big thing.

It kind of just comforted us, reinforced our love for the British crown.

So we heard she was coming near the church and a bunch of us skedaddled up to this dual carriageway.

We stood by the side of the road for I forget how long.

And then her the police escorts came by and she came by in this long bulletproof limousine.

And Janet, I caught a glimpse of her.

Lasted about half a second and it was through tinted windows.

But I think I saw the profile of Princess Diana, and I spent about a week telling people, hey, I saw Princess Diana.

She went flying by on the dual carriageway in Milltown And I've often remembered that.

And the thrill it gave me and the comfort it brought.

And to see someone so famous and and beautiful and all of that.

And I keep going to myself, hold on a minute.

Do I get half of excited about the thought that someday I will look into the face of God?

I will look into the face of my Redeemer, who is who's whose bride was crowned with thorns, who was slapped and abused.

And that's only at the hand of man when he allowed himself to be made sin by the father.

That's going to be the best part of heaven.

There'll be enough just studying the person and work of Christ, the Godhead, the majesty of God.

Besides all that have talked about, the things will do, the things will savor, the things will enjoy.

Let's remember at the heart of heaven is the throne, right?

Revelation four one When John is carried up, he said, I saw a throne, and one who sat on it.

And if the throne of God and the glory of Jesus isn't at the center of what we anticipate for heaven, and we have a man centered view of heaven.

Amen.

Amen.

I'm glad I asked that question, because all the concentric circles come out from that point.

By the way, I just think, Philip, by the time I'm in his presence and this is just me, I figure it's going to take me at least a thousand years before I raise my head and look him in the face.

Yeah.

Because it is.

Hey, John.

When we've been there 10,000 years, bright shining as the sun, there'll be no less days to sing his praises.

When we first begun.

Mhm.

Yeah.

So true.

But I think it's being in the presence of absolute glory and majesty and holiness.

And I know they're going to be no tears in heaven, but I think will I, in that flash of a moment will I have regret for what I didn't do for him, the times I was rebellious and disobedient, the times I could have shared his message and I didn't.

So I just think before I behold him face to face that that I'm not just talking to him, I'm now beholding him that chasm of what I can experience now, and what's going to happen then to.

I get a little breathless.

It takes my.

It takes an imagination for me to think.

What will it be like to look my Savior in the face and not feel a sense of what I squandered, what I didn't do, what I could have done one more time.

I could have shared the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Well, you know, I deal with that a little bit in the chapter in the Judgment Seat of Christ.

I mean, Erwin Lutzer, who I'm sure your listeners are very much aware of.

I love his writings, but he talks about there may be tears in heaven because God doesn't wipe away the tears till later on.

And certainly one John says that we could regret, or we will be embarrassed when Jesus comes first.

John 218 to think like like Schindler's List, you know, one more ring, one more car.

Why didn't I do more and save more Jews?

I wonder, like you just touched on, why didn't I do more for the salvation of the lost?

Why didn't I do more to extend the kingdom of God?

We've got to think about that more than we do.

I do that.

That's the primary thesis of your book, that it really isn't just about sort of putting your hands behind your head and gazing up listlessly into the sky.

It is being focused to know that that day is going to come when we will behold him face to face.

So what are we doing for him now as we look forward to the life that's yet to come?

There's so much information in this new book by Philip Decoursey.

It's called Life After Life, exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity back after this.

How would I describe heaven?

Heaven would be being in the presence of God.

Heaven.

Uh.

Um.

Paradise.

Um, where I could go on and be with the Lord and be with my family who's deceased and, um, where I know that everything is all right.

Kind of a trick question for me.

I'm not.

I don't really believe in that.

So, um, presence with God.

I haven't been there yet, so I really can't describe it.

Paradise.

Non-existent.

I don't know, I've not been there yet.

Uh, eternity with God.

Mm.

Pastor Phillip Decoursey is with us.

And that's our topic.

You hear the man on the street opinion.

But what is the word of God have to say about heaven?

And by the way, the Word of God has an awful lot to say about heaven.

Apparently, heaven is mentioned hundreds of times in almost every book of the Bible.

So we've been told.

So you can't say you haven't been told.

The book that Philip Decoursey has authored is called Life After Life Exploring the Bible's wonderful promises about heaven and eternity.

I'm glad what you said before we went to the break about tears, because that that makes perfect sense to me.

But there's also another part of heaven that people don't like to talk about, and that is judgment.

Talk to me about the judgment seat of Christ.

What is it?

Yeah.

I mean, uh, I have a statement in the book.

I'm paraphrasing it.

Um, faith will get us to heaven, but works will determine what we get to do or enjoy and have.

And now there's the baseline is, uh, every man will have his prayers.

First Corinthians four five.

Uh, our joy will be unspeakable.

But it's clear from first Corinthians three, it's clear from second Corinthians five.

And we read in revelation 2220, Jesus said, I come quickly and my reward is with me.

So there are rewards to enjoy.

There are happinesses to be won.

Uh, John Jonathan Edwards, in his resolutions as a young man, said, I intend to win for myself as much eternal happiness as is possible.

And so there's going to be what in the Greek is called the Bema Throne in Corinth.

A while ago with our church, it was a a raised platform where the judges adjudicated the way a runner ran, make sure he didn't run and get disqualified, and to see who won by keeping the rules and running in their lane.

And Paul takes that and says, here we're all we're running.

And the race is called life.

So run as to win.

Uh, it's not competition against each other, it's competition against ourself.

Are we going to be a loser or a winner?

Eternally.

And Paul says, I discipline myself to that end, that I might win, that I might win the well done, that I might win.

Um, uh, the authority in reigning with Christ and in greater responsibility within his kingdom, there may even be an ability to shine and display God's glory in our resurrected bodies, according to Daniel 12.

I deal with that in the book, but the judgment seat of Christ is forgotten.

My sin is judged.

I will not come into condemnation.

Romans eight verse one, but my works and my life, and the time and talent and treasure that I spent will be judged and will be adjudicated.

And according to first Corinthians three, Janet, you can suffer loss.

We it's not loss of soul, it's not loss of salvation.

Thankfully, that's eternally protected and the glorious work of Christ.

But I can I can lose reward.

I can lose assignments.

And that's why, uh, David Brainerd, a friend of Jonathan Edwards, said, Lord, help me not to linger on my way to heaven.

And so back to where we started.

Life is a probation.

Life is is is is, um, the what is it, C.S.

Lewis it's the preface to the never ending story.

So so we have got to make sure that we don't waste time, that every day is devoted and used to its maximum.

That we regret when we feel and when we step back rather than step forward in our Christian life.

So we need to rediscover the judgment seat of Christ.

It's a great motivation.

And I just there's just sometimes preachers get this impression.

It's a general resurrection.

And and they don't realize they're there's a judgment of the saved and there's a judgment of the unsaved.

There's a time gap.

One is at the rapture, one is at the Second coming.

One is to deal with the believer.

The one is to deal with an unbeliever.

The heaven and hell is determined.

And, um, what one receives, there are degrees of punishment in hell.

And I think there are degrees of glory in heaven, and we need to rediscover that.

I'm so glad you brought that up, because honestly, between you and me, that's a very touchy subject among Christians.

We don't want to think about that.

And I, I think it goes to why you said in the book that your belief determines where we spend eternity, but behavior determines how we spend eternity.

Eternity isn't about my gathering up a bunch of prizes so that I can have the position of mayor of Jerusalem.

It's about saying, I'm going to.

I'm going to be acknowledged for what I did for him.

And as you say, there's loss because we're all going to have jobs.

We're all going to have assignments.

And a lot of that teach me if I'm wrong, pastor, but a lot of that is going to be predicated on how we behaved, how we served, what we did for him in the short, temporal life that we've got.

Right.

I mean, Paul talks about that.

The things that are done in the body, they're going to be examined.

We will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

The Greek word for appear there means manifest.

Our lives are going to be manifest.

Our works are going to be wed according to first Corinthians three, to see if is it gold, silver, precious stones, or is it wooden stubble?

And so, uh, we we need to take that that seriously.

The the sense of God did.

Um, the missionaries did.

That's why they were willing to give up so much.

I mean, isn't that the Jim Elliot quote?

You know, he is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep for that which he cannot lose.

And we've got to back to front here.

The church materialism is getting in the way of our doctrine of heaven, and we're furthering our nests, and we're trying to find some slice of heaven on earth, and we forget.

I think it was an article I read years ago, maybe in a book I read where he quotes Peggy Noonan, the script writer for Reagan.

This is the short, ugly life.

And we forget that because we forget it.

We get ourselves into trouble.

Let's live for the life to come and live for that.

Well done.

Live for those that reigning with Christ.

Live for those eternal rewards, the incorruptible crowns.

Oh, Philip, there's so much more in the book.

And there's a whole Q and A at the back of the book about Kevin and different aspects of it, but I think I'm so glad that you and I were sort of at the 35,000 foot level, because it really just it challenges us to think deeply, more deeply about heaven, to understand that we've got this.

I grew up with the old Sunday School saying only one life will soon be past.

Only what's done for Christ will last.

That really goes very much to this idea of what will be counted toward what you did with the life that you were given.

You know, this is Frodo's conversation with Gandalf.

It isn't how much time you've been given.

It's what you do with the time you've been given.

So I don't know about you, but look at your watch.

Okay?

It is appointed unto man once to die.

And after that, the judgment.

What are you going to do with the time that's left?

Are you preparing for the life after life?

Because that's when real life begins.

Because this is not as good as it gets.

We live east of Eden.

Someday we'll have a new home.

Philip, thank you for a superb book and a memorable conversation.

Check it out.

It's on my information page.

Life After Life by Pastor Philip Decoursey.

See you next time, friends.