Welcome back everybody to Bachelor Happy Hour's Golden Hour.

Thanks so much for joining us again this week.

We are always excited to be back.

Hunt Kathy, Oh, we are so excited to be back, and especially today because we're going to be talking all about this past episode of The Golden bachel Or the Fantasy Suitees episode.

Susan, I don't even know where to begin so much to talk about it.

What do you think?

Can I just say from the start they were throwing a football, they were just lobbing the ball like kind of boring.

I think it could have been a.

Better entry, like maybe the girls walking together down the beach, or or him in thought down the beach, because he doesn't show us a lot of emotion, so maybe we could have seen him going through something himself and get out loud whatever.

So my thought, first of all, the first little intro was, you know, Cindy and Mel and him saying where there's a will, there's a way, and I thought, okay, we're going to get into that.

We've said that quite a bit.

Yeah he did, but I heard Jesse say to him, which thank you, Jesse.

Jesse said, Mel, you gotta you gotta step it up.

You got to tell these women where you are, what you think, which which to me makes the rest of the episode so hard to deal with because Jesse had just said, Buddy, now's the time.

You're one week away from engagements.

Now it's the time to let these women know what you think.

And that's where I want to get into and go ahead.

I'm sorry, No, that's what I wanted to get into.

Uh uh, you know, Mel with the date with with Peg, which we're going to talk about, on the date with Cindy, which we're going to talk but I just want to start out before we get into those specifics.

I give Mel props.

And I know a lot of people are finding this season boring, finding Mel boring.

But for the first time, Mel, actually, we may not like it as the audience because we want it to be about love and we want Mel to fall in love.

But you know what, he's really clear, he says, I don't use the word love loosely.

For him.

He said, it's heavy and it's loaded.

It has tons of meeting, meaning I won't tell someone I love them again just to say it.

And I thought, you know what, good for you?

Mel?

While the premise of this show is to fall in love and hopefully have an engagement.

He literally comes out and says, I can't do that.

I am not in love, so I value that.

I think these women don't like it, and I don't blame them, but you know, let's talk a little bit about the date you go ahead.

He shared about he doesn't use that word often and how long it took him to do it when he got married way back when, and you have to respect that he shares how great he feels about both of them, and I agree with you with Jesse saying, okay, buddy, like, yeah, it's got to be.

One of them or perhaps none of them.

Right, but either way, as the show goes on, as we all know, he doesn't use the word at all.

Where we start with Cindy in her own head thinking, oh my gosh, when she's not with him, is he with her?

He's with Peg.

That's Cindy's whole show About Cindy.

She always thought that it wasn't not a jealousy thing, but it was hard for her to watch him date other women through the whole entire thing.

Now Here she is at the overnights and there is one other woman, but of course if he's not with you, he's with her, right right?

So hard?

Okay, So before we get into the dates themselves, You're absolutely right, I agree with you, it has to be hard.

But the other thing I loved about this episode, and and you know, if we're being honest, it's you and I have had a tough time with this season, as have many people in bachtslor Nation.

But the other thing, not only do I give Mel props for really coming out and saying where he is, I also think that Susan Hello.

I also think that Cindy and Peg for the very first time, and maybe it's because it came down to just the two of them being left, we see very clearly the difference between these two whips.

We see definitively that Peg is a fun loving girl and and and she even comes out and says, I'm not ready to fall in love.

I can't say those words.

And Cindy is all about the romance, all about my prince Charming, and I fared in love with him.

And so I think that I love the editing with these two because I really feel that as a viewer we see the real differences between them.

So you want, let's start with the date with Pet.

First of all, he crawled in on the g on the buggy.

Whatever the thing is, They are so much fun and maybe he was just being cautious going to get her, but did just see.

His face when she took.

He was holding on for dear life.

And he says he loves her energy.

He thinks she's a badass.

He connects on an emotional level, he feels her.

Spirits, all of those things.

I love all that.

But he was scared.

He was this wasn't a great overnight fantasy weekend for him because both things he didn't like the sting raise and he looked just.

Said, let me just say the sting ray day when we get to that, that's going down in bachelor history that way.

But he looks like a shit of brick, I swear to god.

When he his eyes opened up, he grabbed the old ship bar and said, oh God.

But then he was laughing and he was enjoying it.

She was going crazy and he was enjoying it.

But that's who she is.

That's who she's been the entire show.

I agree.

Uh.

The other thing I love that Mel said is she's captivating, and I feel like Peg says you know, I have a tough exterior.

It's a defense mechanism, and when I feel safe and I trust, I go him with both feet.

I actually think Mel is probably the same way.

That's why I think they're a good match.

I think he and Cindy could be a good match too, But that's why I think he and Peg.

I think they're in the same place.

They don't cavalierly throughout the word love.

They They're both reserved, I think.

But I do think Peg would be an easy choice for this reason.

Mel.

And maybe it's a little bit the way my marriage was.

You know, I was the entertainer in my marriage.

I was the one that brought the fun, and my husband was much calmer, more reserved like Mel.

And it's very easy for Mel to literally watch Peg caltivate her room, you know, take take control in that way.

It doesn't take a lot of energy or on his part, or deliberate behavior.

It doesn't.

He just has to sit back and watch Peg be Peg.

And I think it actually helped Mel when Peg shared that she cannot fix a relationship, Yeah, and she was hoping that Mel had a safe place for her in his heart.

She does take it slow same as him.

But when she said, how do you feel about us?

One word good?

It's like pulling teeth Mel.

I need to talk to you.

Well, Mel, what do you think of ice cream?

It's good?

Mel good.

What do you think of death and taxes?

They're good?

Which immediately I mean, Peg says, I'm wondering if he is emotionally available, even though they both want to take it slow.

But is he?

You know, that's a red flag people that are not emotionally available.

So, Susan, that's my question.

You know, it always in the in these in this show, it's always about what we see versus what really happens, right, and so you and I've always talked about, oh maybe it's the edits, you know, maybe we just didn't see it happen.

But this episode blew my mind because both Cindy and Peg say, you know, he's got to give us jelse everyone the commercial you know, the commercial break, everyone's saying he needs to give these women more.

So now I'm left thinking he hasn't given them what they need in his personality, in communicating, in showing his emotion.

So when Peg says she needs to feel more vulnerable, and it's scary and it's risky.

I'm like, are you kidding me?

You're not getting anything.

You couldn't be any more vulnerable.

He does say that he's thankful that she gave him the opportunity, so that's what they're going with.

He he loves being around her, her spirit and then the thunder, remember the thunder and the lightning, and he says it's a sign.

I was like, thank you, thank you.

You've got to wait Saint humor in there.

Okay, did you hear it when he said And I literally rewound it twice because I burst out laughing.

I gotta be honest, and I mean, I like Mel, I've met him.

He's a nice guy too.

When he says in the jeep one of his interviews, he needs he wants Peg to lower, to lower her tough exterior, he's he says she's guarded.

I'm like, if she's guarded, Mel, you are guarded.

You are guarded to the one hundredth exponent, Like, are you serious?

I mean, I thought that was so interesting that he said she needs to be less guarded.

Holy smart, because she is just like him.

But she does say she wants to get to the next level after him saying thank you for the opportunity and how much she likes her and blah blah blah.

But when he says, what.

Do you think about going to the Vanity's fantasy suits?

That's all she had to go on.

He's thankful.

Yeah, he likes being around her.

Like, what else is there?

Oh wait, I can tell you missed, Susan.

We have to stop the presses here.

You missed.

You missed the important point that puts PEG in the lead in this episode.

Are you ready?

I wrote it down.

I had to watch it twice.

She's full of joy and her sweaty, curly hair blowing in the wind.

She's fearless, fun and tough.

Peg is perfect for me.

This is all a quote.

Peg is perfect for me.

I'm all in.

You know what I did.

I went to the drug store and bought a bottle of Clairel blonde dye and a and a curling iron.

If that's all it takes to get a guy, I got.

I got this problem solved.

I mean seriously, he said that sweat and curly hair in the wind.

Like, I'm all in.

He's liking it.

He likes her sweat.

You know that's some men like that.

Why not.

She gets active, she gets funky, she goes for it.

You're killing me.

You got to get a job at a PR firm.

Are you serious?

There?

Serious the emotion?

Where is the He's not giving emotions, So you gotta go on the next thing.

Best thing like what sweaty?

Okay?

I like, hey, peg, if you're listening to this podcast, can you tell me how this worked out for you?

How's your sweat in your curly air?

And obviously the overnights are the time that you take all the audio off.

You really get to talk to one another.

Okay, we don't get to see that part.

When they first got there, the little band was playing out off their balcony and they danced for a second.

They don't show us much.

However, when they got up, they said.

She says, is he exceeded it.

The night exceeded her expectations, and they connected on a whole bunch.

Of whatever that means.

They had sex, and I mean that's all you can imagine the sex.

She feels safe seeing heard and they're really big steps.

Okay, so your overnight went well.

Exactly exactly, But you know what she said.

She here's the thing, here's the rub for me, She said several times, literally in a row.

Is he emotionally available?

Those words?

She also said she knows what she wants in her golden years.

I'm also going to harken back if that's a word too.

Way back in the beginning, do you remember Peg saying, so this all gives me, you know, pause, Peg saying I'm retired.

I'm looking for someone who's retired.

I've raised my kids.

I don't want kids.

He's not retired, he's got kids.

So I'm and is emotionally available?

I'm thinking how many boxes is he checking for either one of these women?

Now, maybe he was great in bed, so that's another box to check.

But comes on, is that the definition of love is blind when you're in like you're just blind to all the things that on your list and they're not checking any of them off.

Maybe I mean bling right, then we get to wait wait And then.

He was smiling.

He looked a little more relaxed the next morning, laying there, and he said, you want to get breakfast?

Are you hungry?

Now?

I found it interesting that Peg said that, And I've told you before I see a lot of myself in Peg.

I'm a puppy dog.

I get excited.

I'm you know, I can rule the room sort of like Peg.

But I loved when she said she was entertaining the idea of marriage for the first time in a long time, that she's excited about having a partner.

And Mel's answer was I like you a lot, You're spared your energy and wants to explore it further.

Again, I keep coming back to that.

I have to give Mel props.

He wants to explore it further.

He's not in love, so maybe had grace sex, but he's not in love.

He said the same thing to Cindy.

I know he doesn't know about getting married.

He likes her a lot, and where is this going He doesn't know?

I mean, that's later, so yeah, let's let's okay.

Wait, I got one when.

I asked leaving the overnight.

That wasn't good for me, either for either one of Peg or Mel.

Because normally, as I've watched the shows, as they kiss goodbye and I know they're going to go on the date with the other person, he doesn't.

It's like an emotional It's an emotional hug and kiss.

It was a simple kiss.

He turned around and walked away, and she stood there and watched all the way down the beach, and I was waiting for him to turn around, blow a kiss, give her a piece sun, give her a finger.

For God's sake, I don't care what you do, but do something.

Give me.

So funny you said that, because because I thought the same thing, like Peg looked like she's waiting for a bus, and you know, and and he's walking, and you know he's walking away.

You know he's got he's got a bus to catch in the other direction.

I do think it's so Yeah, I was too.

Mel did say though, that they are compatible.

I don't know.

I almost find myself, you know, I'm sure I'll take Keith for this one too.

I almost wonder if you know, Mel has said many times that his love, the only love he's ever had, was his wife, Yes, and his ex wife.

I almost wonder if if he can't the reason he's struggling so much is he can see he said, Peg is compatible with me, like that's what he's looking for.

Maybe he doesn't want or can't feel that deep love because he was so hurt by what happened in his marriage.

I don't know that could be that, or it could be.

Also, it's only been a month, right, some people don't feel.

Yeah, it does exactly, and it takes a slow burn and all that.

I'm just saying, we're not as far as the show goes, we as an audience are not getting the romance that we want.

We're not getting the emotional ties.

We're not getting the oh my god, he's fallen in love.

We got Peg who's running a circus and I mean that the best way.

She's having a blast.

And we have Cindy, who is, you know, the damsel and distress and just needs some affirmation that he loves her, which she's never going to get because at least not in this episode and maybe not in the finale.

Maybe who knows.

We don't know yet, but it doesn't appear that this is in his wheelhouse.

And so you know, that's text struggle.

Also, what we have to compare to is our Gary, who was very emotional.

If the world saw what he felt and he shared.

And this guy, you can't blame mel for being who he is.

No, I'll give him that.

He doesn't wear it on his sleeve, He keeps it in.

Maybe at the end he just burst out and says you're the one I'm hoping something.

You know what I've got.

I really have given this a lot of thoughts, Susan.

If I am trying to get a guy to open up to me and show me his love and care and put his arms round me, you know what I'm going to do.

I'm going to put him in the ocean with a pile of sting ray That's what I'm going to do.

Let's talk about that.

We got a guy who's scared to death of horses.

You know, when he's on the horse with Cindy, he can't drive a dune buggy more than five miles an hour.

And now we're in with stingrays, who, by the way, have not stung anyone in like thirty plus years, and he's scared to death.

How about when he's going in for the date and he shares he has such good feelings, strong feelings for Cindy, and he feels really hopeful about Cindy.

And then they get on the boat.

And it looks so sweet and they talk about the stingrays.

They're cheering to Champagne.

I'm sorry, mal I know you on the outside world and you're a great guy, but you're a dead fish here.

You're a dead fish.

You're not showing up.

Don't you insult stingrays like that?

I think he does say, though again, I'm telling you, I'm going back and forth, and I realize I'm all over the map here because parts of the show really spoke to me.

He did say to Cindy, I like you a lot, but it's a process.

He is literally spelling out to Cindy, and I'm I'm talking to Cindy on the TV, going Cindy, he's telling you, he can't do it in this frame, this amount of time.

He's saying exactly, but he's saying, I like you a lot.

I want I want to to him.

That's a huge deal.

And Cindy, of course, is saying, you know, you make me feel comfortable, you make me feel safe.

You know she's crazy about him.

I'm falling in love.

She could see a life of them.

YadA YadA yah.

He is cannot get that.

All she wants is to know his intentions.

She speaks up, I mean that's all she wants.

Wait a minute, now, I'm going to disagree with you that he wants you.

To know what what is holding him back?

I right, here's what I think Cindy wants.

I think Cindy is in love with mel and I think Cindy wants him to tell her that he's falling in love with her.

She's controlling it.

Well, that's not knowing her intentions.

That is I'm sorry, that is not Sidney one know his intentions.

He's made his intentions very clear season.

His intention is to try to pick one of these women and go down the road and see if there's a future with him.

He has said it six ways to Sunday.

Cindy's not liking what she's hearing.

That's a different.

Well, that's that's different.

Obvious, But she said it out loud.

She wants to know his intentions prior to getting on the boat.

That was one of the things she said.

And I like you a lot, and that's a big deal.

She's crazy about him.

Yes, we just sattle that.

But if you say to someone, what are your intentions?

In Cindy's case, she wants him to say what she said.

He she wants she doesn't want to know his intentions.

Again, he's made his intentions very clear.

This relationship will have to develop over time.

He says those words starts, he makes his intentions very clear.

That isn't what Cindy wants.

Cindy wants reciprocity.

She wants to hear that he's falling in love with her, and he ain't doing it.

And I don't blame Paul.

It takes lots of time.

It's that he doesn't do a leap of faith.

He doesn't act like that.

That he doesn't jump in on a leap of faith.

He doesn't know.

But I respect ever getting married.

Excuse you respect that?

Respect what that he doesn't jump in and fake the love of you.

No, I'm saying he won't faith.

I respect that.

But you can't read him.

You don't know.

Do you like me?

Am I wasting my time?

You got to give me something he did.

I found difficult in the whole season was okay, maybe you do feel a spark for him.

Somebody's got to give you some feedback to have these feelings to go with something like these two are at the end?

They Where was that?

When did they feel like he was very interested in them?

I missed it, so did I.

I don't disagree with you.

What I'm saying, Susan is he has made his intentions clear.

Maybe maybe when he kissed Cindy, Maybe when he kissed Peg, maybe that was a you know, tongue down the throat kind of Wow, he must really like me because he's good and and and women can fall fast.

We all know that.

But for the first time in this episode, I was like, Okay, we have been being hit over the head with this hammer of mel not wanting to commit, saying he's not committing.

It's a process.

I like you a lot, but I want to see down.

But the will might be to get to know you better.

In his mind, the way is not to get engaged or not to say I love you.

I don't know, we don't know what happens yet, but I.

Think he just wants to take well whoever he picks the next step and you start dating and let's see if love develops for him.

Yeah, you know it doesn't come easily and freely.

Can I tell you the show?

The show you and I could write he doesn't choose either one, and he dates them both to see which one he falls in love with.

It's like a year from now, we have a.

Wo would you accept that if you were that one of them?

Would you accept he's going to date both of us after the show?

Hell, no, yeah me?

Are you asking what I would do if I if I understood who he was and I thought that given enough time, he would fall in love with me because I'm self confident, but I understand his process is different.

Yeah, I probably.

Will you let him date me?

Okay, so it's me and you at the end.

Oh, there is not a chance in hell you would go for that.

You're so fullish right now?

No way, no, I think if nobody wait a minute, if he said, and you and I are really good friends, so that's a whole different thing.

Not me, just somebody else will If he if.

He said to me, listen, I want to date you, and I want to date you know Sally, so you know, I don't know Sally is some of the woman and I would have a few parameters around it.

Mine would be listen, I only have sex with men that I'm in a relationship with, and so you do so for me, there would be oh, you can touch all the parts of my body, but.

You're just okay with him.

I'm going to date both of you.

If I thought, I don't believe that, Susan, listen, if I thought he is my man, I love this man, and it's just taking him longer to round third base and get to home base.

He's you know, I hit a home run the first time I met that guy.

I fell in love.

I'm sitting on home plate waiting for this guy to run the bases, right.

I'm saying to you, if I were that in love with him, as Cindy says she is, I would.

I would.

I'm just telling you I would entertain it.

I don't know.

I'm not in this situation, but I would entertain the idea.

But I think that.

I can't say that I would.

Okay, so what did you think?

We got to talk about that, Okay, what did What did you think about the dinner?

Because I'll tell you I was sitting on the edge of my seat.

With uncomfortable, uncomfortable the one with Cindy, and you know what, I started to feel, Oh, boy, she's going to leave.

I know it.

She's not feeling anything.

Well, I thought, you like, maybe she's just going to tell him forget it.

Like her, she was kept keeping her composure.

She's such a fine woman.

I really really admire Cindy and I like her.

But I saw her face, her emotion was all over her face, and she's like, I'm barking up an empty tree.

Here, like, what's going on?

I think Cindy has talked, you know, on the episodes about you know, giving him grace and yes under dada da da day, and I think that Cindy, I mean, I don't know, I'm putting words in her mouth, not trying to.

I felt horror struck.

I felt like, oh my god, is we don't know?

Of course, thank God for cliffhangers.

I'm thinking, is he going to send her home?

Are they even gonna have now?

The the the promos for next week suggests there is as there she's there, that there is a but I found myself thinking, is he going to say to her, You've I was waiting for it to happen.

You've pushed me too far.

I can't give you what I want, what you want, and therefore we're not a good match, so you know, bye bye.

Opposite, I thought she was going to say, you're not giving me anything.

I'm leaving, like, but that's all I could think of.

She was so empty there.

I felt so bad for her.

Well, I felt terrible for her, but I felt like the world was closing in on her.

I did.

I felt like the world was closing in.

But I think both of these women are lovely, hopeful women, and they've come this far in the process.

I would I would find it difficult to believe that either one would not go through the process.

That's me, I would know.

Because that's you know, you got to wait to the end.

You never know that don't say what he's thinking.

That's friend him, So I I would not.

I could slim put it this way.

I could imagine Mel sending her home because he clearly sees what she wants and he clearly says he can't give it.

I could see him sending her home before I could see her leaving because she's invested so much.

Can I put you on the spot in this episode?

In this episode, who do you think he likes more?

And you can't say both?

None of your answers both, because I.

Think he has more fun with Peg, but he likes the depth of Cindy, but I don't he's not ready for all that depth.

So I would think Peg because of the fun.

So I think I agree with what you said.

Peg is fun, more fun in that way, you know, laugh a minute.

But if you watch him.

He looked more comfortable with Cindy.

He's smiling at her a lot.

Because she wasn't scaring the day out of him going ninety miles.

Well, then that's why I think Cindy would be the pick.

Exactly what you're saying for exactly that that he seems more at ease, more at peace, calmer, more trusting.

Where he seems in awe of pet that just came to me.

He seems more like trusting, more calm, calm.

With with Cydney with a peg gets more in awe, like, oh, what's she going to do next?

Wow, she's a ball of energy, which is great, But that's why I.

Seed somebody to bring that out in him.

With Cindy, he is calm, but like their date was calm, the other date wasn't calm.

The Stingray date was calm.

That was like an easy and it was quiet.

And the.

Breakdown, he wanted nothing to do with this sting Ray.

She finally got him to at least touch it, but it's not his game.

So I'm thinking, well, why wouldn't they talk about that?

Like, if it's something he's not going to be involved in, maybe we could have picked something else, Yeah, jumped down the waterfalls or something.

Well, he probably wouldn't do that either.

He folks so uncomfortable and she was all about it, and.

She looked uncomfortable with the fish yesh with her.

No, that's what I'm saying.

I'm just trying to guess you.

You know, come on, we got to make a guess at who he ends.

Up with, Peg or nobody.

And you say Peg because he has more fun with her.

I think she brings life back into him.

Yes, he's not the hopeless romantic and it's all about love like Cindy's like me, I am a help hopeful romantic, but it's all about love and depth and oh I just want to squeeze you.

But he said he had that with his wife, So you don't think he wants that.

I'm anymore.

I don't know that he doesn't want it, but I know that he's not ready for it.

He's not there yet.

Okay.

I agree with you on all that I agree with.

And I think Peg just excites him and he gets a kick out of her.

And you know, some guys like the woman to shine and the woman like you were saying in your marriage, some men, do you enjoy other men find that.

Okay, can I say one more thing here?

I do you remember when the roast ceremony with Debbie, Cindy and Peg.

Yes, and you remember he smell stood there and he said, all three of you deserve ros.

What did I say to you, either on camera off camera?

I said, he'd like to take bits and pieces of all three of them.

He'd like to meld those three women into one.

Now you know what, I think.

I'm convinced more than ever he would.

That's why it's hard to pick one.

I'm with you.

He could go either way, Peg for fun, blah blah blah.

But I think if he, if he could, if he could magically do it, he would take pieces of Cindy and pieces of Peg and meld them into one in his mind, perfect woman.

I wish we could do that with several people we've known.

Yeah, that's not even a thing, But it's not.

But it just makes me think that if he gets engaged, it's got to be a different kind of engagement, because you if you get down on one knee and you say to Peg or Cindy, you know, I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

Hell he can't even say that he loves him, So how is that.

Going to I want to continue to date you.

Now, that's not engagement, Susan.

No, it's not.

That is not in your case.

Maybe he's going to date both of them, and Kathy will be okay with that, and I will chime in every week.

You know what else is gonna happen, Susan.

He's going to date both of them, and two company and three's a crowd.

I'm gonna be the crowd.

I'm going to maybe they'll.

Call Debbie and maybe she should come back and date them to.

No.

I just I can't wait for next week?

Can it's the finale.

It's going so quickly and yet not quickly enough.

I know, it really did go fast.

I feel like, you know what, that was a lot of fun to I can't wait till our next talk because it's going to be a two hour show.

We might need a two hour podcast for that one.

You know.

I can't and I cannot wait to see how that cliffhanger ends.

I knew they were going to do it.

I was watching the clock, going, oh, we're not going to find out.

I know.

I hate when they do that, Okay, well, say thank you everybody, all of you listeners.

I just love how you give me feedback and my emails and telling me what you think of our show and whether you agree with us or not.

I just love it.

I share it with Kathy every week and we can't wait to chat about the finale that's just right around the corner.

It's all true.

In the meantime, be sure to follow Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming out every week that you don't want to miss.

We are we're going to move on to the next Bachelor scene.

This Melan and whoever he chose, if he chooses someone are going to go out, fade off into the sunset, and you and I are gonna have all new episodes coming.

Absolutely listen to Bachelor Happy Hours Golden Hour on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your podcast.

Until next time, have a great week.