You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

I could sense something, I suppose like brewing on the horizon.

I know that sounds quite quite dramatic, but I could sense something nebulous about to happen.

And I think that's why, you know, part of the reason I went to get a mental health care plan was because I was rereading some of the stuff that I'd written.

And yeah, I always get complimented on like how energetic and vivacious and fun I am, And the stuff I've written was actually really fucking dark.

Hello, and welcome to No Filter.

I'm kateline Brook and today I'm talking to ter Rea pit Now.

Teria has been called many things, inspiring, resilient, extraordinary, but today she's proudly calling herself selfie.

After surviving an accident that changed her life forever, Teria built a career as an author, speaker, and athlete.

But this story isn't about the fire.

It's about what came after, the mental load, the burnout, the guilt, and the realization that being selfless was slowly destroying her.

In this conversation, Teria opens up about learning to put herself first, setting boundaries, and why choosing yourself isn't selfish, it's survival.

This is ter Rea Pit.

Ter Rea Pit, welcome to No Filter.

Thank you for having me.

It's a great medium for you because you are quite unfiltered in your expression of yourself.

Yes, well, I don't know if that's a compliment, but I'm going to see it as one.

Okay, thank you.

Well, obviously on this podcast it's the ultimate compliment.

Yes, But in life it's a rare commodity, really increasingly rare.

I mean, you've always been very open with how you've brought yourself to the public, but this is really if you ever want to make the people that you live with nervous, your husband, your children, I suggest that you pull out this book, your new book, which is called Selfish Selfish.

My husband's like, why are you reading that?

It makes them nervous?

Yeah, you know what.

There was a bit of tension inside myself with how because you know, there's stories in there about Michael.

There's less stories about my kids, but there are still some stories in there.

So for me, whilst personally I am a public person, I share my story, I post on social media, I do podcasts, I write, I create content, I do advocacy work, so I'm a public person, but I also need to remember that my family aren't public, if that makes sense.

Like my husband, well he's not my husband, Michael isn't an influencer.

You know, my kids aren't in my content.

So there was a little bit of tension within myself, I suppose about that tightrope that I had to walk.

Yes, because you in the book, you delve very deeply into the inherent tension that a lot of women in particular feel in their lives now, which is how you serve yourself and how you serve those around you who you love.

And in fact, even though you said you don't talk about your boys too much, hack of I, your eldest son provided the launching pad he did for this discovery over the hot chocolate.

Yeah.

So it was one of those nights which you know, I'm sure so many people can relate to, but especially if your parents, both parents come home after a big day at work.

You're both absolutely shattered, but the kids are you know, everyone's hungry.

You haven't started making dinner, so you know, I start getting the stuff out of the fridge, start cooking dinner, and I look over at my husband, sorry, at my boyfriend, you're not husband at my spunky man and he's sitting on it.

He's sitting on the couch, and I have this thought, and it's probably reflective of my headspace at the time, but I think, oh, that'd be nice, you know, that'd be nice to be able to sit down and sit down on the couch and decompress after my day.

But no, I've got to cook dinner.

So I cook the dinner.

Everyone sits down at the table, We eat the dinner, we start clearing up, and then my eldest son, Hukkavay, he was only four years old at the time, he says that he wants a hot chocolate.

So I say, yeah, no, worries, mate.

So I start getting out the hot chocolate materials and he looks at the brand of the hot chocolate that I've bought and you, guys, that's the wrong one.

And because by this time I'm so stressed, tense, overwhelmed, cranky and snarky, I retort back to him, well, why don't you ask your dad to buy you the brand of hot chocolate that you like?

And quick as a flash, he comes back to me and he says, no, that's your job.

And I would always I had always considered Michael and I to have an equal relationship.

I considered myself to be a feminist.

I thought we were doing a pretty good job at raising our voice.

But yet somehow my four year old son had identified that it was mum's job to remember the brand of hot chocolate that he liked.

And so that night I was a little bit of a spiral because I felt like no matter how diligent I was, no matter how hard I tried, no matter if I got up earlier in the morning and meditated, no matter if I set my day up with intentions, no matter if I, you know, planned out my day meticulously, something would always fall through the cracks.

And I also I didn't really like who I was at the time, because I was often stressed and shitty and annoyed and overwhelmed and overworked.

And I like, I feel so like you, Kate, like I got a second chance at life, right, but I wasn't enjoying it because I was always shitty and annoyed, and I wanted to enjoy my life.

That my second chance that I get to have with my spunky man and my beautiful kids, that I wanted to be well playful and more energetic and more uplifted and more joyful.

And so that was I suppose a catalyst for this book.

And so when that moment, sometimes you only recognize things in retrospect.

Yeah, Like, did that moment hit you in the moment, even with all the you know, a tendant kafuffle of trying to make dinner and exhaustion or whatever.

Did it hit you at the moment or was it later on upon reflection that you went, hang on a minute.

Yeah, it was when everyone was in bed and I sat down at the kitchen table, and I remember feeling really sad, really sad, and I was drinking I was drinking wine at the time.

I just started like tapping out my thoughts and my feelings and how how I felt at the time this tension in my life.

I was running around like a headless chicken, trying to do everything for everyone else, spending my whole day being a good boss, being a good person, being polite, not rocking the boat, being a good friend, not forgetting birthdays, checking in with my in laws.

So I felt like I was doing everything that I was that I felt like I was supposed to.

But then if I didn't do one little thing, then all of the things that I did do right right noticed or weren't appreciated interested.

Yes, so the exceptions to what you've done are the things that get picked up on exactly, rather than the million things you have done.

So even with like hack of eye, it was he noticed that you didn't get the right type of hot chocolate.

But of course through a child's eyes, they're not noticing that you've just picked them up and dropped them off and that you're making dinner in your whatever.

Yeah, And like it's not it's not a child's job to you know, especially not a four year old to be like, oh, you've done you know, you've worked all day and yes, you know you've got to give yourself a break and you've cooked it.

Like that's what my girlfriends are for.

I suppose that's what girlfriends are for, you know, to give you that little pep talk.

And also that's what my man's for too.

So it's not it's not a child's job.

But I suppose when I embarked on this selfish journey, I realized that I had to stop posed waiting, yes, waiting for someone to notice, waiting for someone to praise, waiting for someone to say, hey, you've worked really hard today.

You need to break yes.

And I had to carve that out for myself.

You say in the book, And I think this will resonate with so many people.

I've tried to be selfless, to put other people's needs ahead of my own, and I think in many ways it's been catastrophic for me personally.

Yes, that's extraordinary.

Yeah, because I became burned out.

I was really burned out, and that because I didn't didn't get help, didn't get the mental health support that I needed, I ended up being really depressed.

That's why it was catastrophic, because up until that i'd been I felt like I'd been doing everything right.

You know, I'd been a good partner, a good mom, a good friend, a good daughter, checking in on others, making sure everyone else was comfortable.

And if something made me uncomfortable, or if I didn't want to do something, I would just absorb that, you know, I would just expect myself to be able to resolve that internally.

Or I would expect myself to not make a big deal.

Don't be a drama queen, don't be a diva, be easy going.

So what sort of things, Terria.

Yeah, I'll give you an example.

So lots of people recognize me and they say, oh my gosh, Terria, I love your work, You're awesome, and I'll say, thank you.

That's really lovely, you know.

I genuinely love it when people say that to me.

But on the other side of the equation, I also get people come up to me and they say, oh my gosh, what happened to you?

Oh my gosh, will you burnt?

Oh my gosh, that's such a crazy story.

And what I would do is I would placate them, so I would answer the questions, and I perversely, I wouldn't want them to feel bad, so I do all this extra work to try and make them feel comfortable for asking what is probably you know, I wouldn't be proud if my boys went up to a stranger and asked those types of questions.

But I suppose when I started to notice that I was at the park with my son and a woman came over to me and started asking me a lot of those questions, and I could feel my son squeezing my hand, trying to pull me away and saying, Mommy, can we go?

Can we go?

And so I sort of.

I suppose it's strange because I've written this book about being selfish and I'm encouraging other women to be selfish and to stop waiting for permission from other people.

But at the same time, I'm still not very good at being selfish, even though I've written this, I've written this whole bloody book on it.

But it was easier for me to set boundaries and to do things when it was for my kids, if that makes sense.

Often I think we'll advocate on half of others.

Yeah yeah, we'll draw.

A line in the sand on behalf of others that we won't do for ourselves.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's why I thought about the example I was setting for my kids.

I was teaching them that the stranger asked them a question that they weren't comfortable with, they had to answer it, and not only that they had to be polite about it, and not only that they had to make the stranger feel good about asking this feel okay.

Yeah.

So now if someone says that to me, I just say I don't want to talk about it, which feels so rude, and it feels like I'm being a really big bitch.

But at the same time, I notice that I feel proud of myself too for drawing that boundary.

When you are in public as other people are who have had burns or who have had some kind of physical trauma happened to them, yea, that they wear that they can't hide from the world, Like as we all know the world, it's all crawling around full of internal trauma, but that can't be seen from the outside.

Yeah, there's something about when you have the face that you present to the world has a story to it that people feel that they can intrude upon that.

And in your book, in which you so in your quest for selfishness, you go on it is a real quest.

So you examine so many aspects of your life, your relationship with alcohol, your relationship with your phone, the division of household chores with Michael.

And one of the things that you talk about which was really interesting was I think it came out of your therapy, maybe that every time you have to share your trauma with a stranger, you end up reliving that trauma yourself.

Yeah, which I you know, I'd read about microaggressions a couple of years ago, which is something that I think it was first brought to my attention by Carlie Finley.

Oh yes, I love Carly.

Yeah, she's awesome, she's an advocate, she's fucking amazing.

So it was first brought to my attention, and when I first read about it, I got to say I didn't quite understand because at the time, I was like, well, it's just a question, like, you know, the person didn't mean it.

It's just a question how bad can it be?

But what I realized now is because I've lived with burns for like close to fifteen years, the reason they're called microaggressions is because they have this cumulative effect.

And You're right, every time someone, you know, I might be at the going for a surf and I'll be frothing.

I'll be like, can't wait to get out there, and someone will say, hey, what happened to you?

And then even though I was keen and excited to go for a serf, now mentally I brought back to, you know, the trauma that I've survived.

So it can be quiet jarring.

But it's also not like I can't expect every single person to not ask me those types of questions, right, No, Like, obviously that's going to be ideal.

It's not going to happen.

But what I can do is I can realize that people can ask that question, and I can also just shut it down and just say I don't want to talk about it.

You must get told all the time that you're an inspiration.

Is that a blessing or a curse?

Does it confine you to feel that you have to live in a certain way?

How do you feel about about inspiration?

You know, when people say that they admire me, they respect the work I've died, that they find me inspiring, that's that's really like lovely and amazing, and I like to hear it.

If I'm feeling down or I'm having a shit day, I can feel like a bit of a fraud.

This person thinks I'm inspiring, but I feel like my day has just been a shit show, so I don't feel inspiring at the time.

I think when people say, like if I'm at the shops and I'm getting like minced meat from my spag while that I'm cooking my boys and someone says, oh, you're so brave, I I just couldn't leave the house if what happened to you happened to me.

I find that kind of applause really off because I feel like I'm being commended for doing a really ordinary, basic task that most people would do and not really think about.

So I don't like those circumstances.

But I think I'm normally getting caught inspiring or brave, I suppose for the work that I've done or the things that I've done.

And I think if I look at it objectively, then yes, I am brave and I am inspiring.

So I'm okay with it.

To repeat you are extraordinary.

I'll take that too, Kate, thank.

You so in your quest.

And I just also want to say the territory that you're charting in the book is very interesting because it's certainly not a treatise on, you know, burning down the village and leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

You're not advocating that at all, No, But you know what I mean, that is the association that we have with the notion of selfishness.

Yeah, but what you're talking about is serving yourself.

Yeah, looking after your well being, making sure that you're doing okay.

And you know, sometimes we don't live near any family members, and Michael will go away for work and so I'll be solo parenting for two weeks.

In the morning, sometimes I can feel myself start to get stressed, start to get overwhelmed because I think about all the work that I have to do.

I've got to get the kids ready for school, do their lunches, all of those things.

And now, instead of being really hard on myself, I say, well, what's going to make this day a bit easier to reach?

Yeah?

And sometimes the answer is, Hey, I'm not going to take my kids to after school sports today, or we're just going to get pizza tonight.

And sometimes that doesn't feel good, particularly when you are if you like me, and you're an overachiever and you like to do things properly and you like to excel, stripping back, taking your foot off the pedal, giving yourself that permission to not take your kids so they're after school sports, or not cook a home cooked meal.

That doesn't feel good all right, But I also know that that's what I need to do to look after myself in that moment.

When you have made a decision like that, Often I think we anticipate that the response of the world around us will be judgemental or horrified or disappointed or whatever.

Yes, yes, And this is what I realized last year.

I was really badly burnt out.

I had so many people offer me help when Michael was away working.

I said, no, I'm good, I've got it.

I suppose I had this idea in my head that I'd beaten the fire, so like solo parenting and running a business not that fucking hard.

And so there was this story going in my head like, stop being a pussy, Stop being a little bitch.

You wanted kids, you wanted a family, you wanted a business.

You've got it now, so don't fucking complain about it.

That was this story I was telling myself in my head.

And what I realized now after I suppose getting therapy and getting mental health support, is that asking people for help or support often they're really happy to help to start with.

But also, if I had a deadline and it was tomorrow and I hadn't done the thing, I'd just stay up until midnight until it was done, because I said I was going to have it to them tomorrow.

And now I'm like, I won't have it to you tomorrow, but I can have it to you next week.

And the answer pretty much always has been no worries.

Like too easy.

So I realized, Fuck, how much harder have I made my life for myself by being so so binary, right, by being so driven, by being such a such a stickler for the unwritten rules.

But I think it's possibly twofold in you, because you're obviously, as you said, a very driven person, very disciplined.

But do you think you also took on post your continuing recovery, your continuing treatments.

Do you think you also took on I need to show that I'm capable of doing all these things that I would have been able to do before.

Yeah, of course, And it was I suppose I wanted to prove that to everyone else, like, hey, I know I've got a disability, but I can still do everything.

And you know, when Michael's around, I can kind of pretend I don't because I can be cocking.

I can say, hey, D can help not this jar ofd pasta sauce.

He'll come and do it.

But when he is not there, I'm like, fuck, I can't open this, you know, And that's not good for my ego either.

No, to come face to face with those limitations that once again pivot you back to a point of trauma.

Yeah, I suppose.

I don't find like not being able to do things.

I don't find it traumatic, but I do find it frustrating.

It does frustrate me when I can't do things that I used to be able to do.

After the break to reasshares how reading through some dark journaling trees became the moment she realized she needed to ask for help.

When you started on this questioning really of how you could return yourself to yourself and start to enjoy this life that you had built and that you had dreamed off, but that you weren't enjoying, do you think at that point you knew inside yourself that you were getting wobbly?

Yeah, I think, yeah, of course, I think I definitely did.

I think that's part of the reason why I set out on this project to be selfish, because I could sense I could sense something like brewing on the horizon.

I know that sounds quite quite dramatic, but I could.

I could sense something nebulous about to happen.

And I think that's why, you know, part of the reason I went to get a mental health care plan was because I was rereading some of the stuff that I'd written, and I, yeah, I always get complimented on, like how energetic and vivacious and fun I am.

And the stuff I'd written was actually really fucking dark, right, you know, I've got I've got so many good girlfriends that I love and I don't.

And I called one of them and I kind of told her what had been going on.

She was the one who encouraged me to go get a mental health care plan.

When you spoke to her, what did you What were the headlines at that point?

Oh?

The headlines were like I just I just told her some of the stuff i'd written, like that I felt like I was in the way that I felt like I was an inconvenience, that I felt like I wasn't, I wasn't enough.

Just stuff like that, which isn't, which hadn't been reflective of my everyday experience up until that point.

And why do you think, I mean, there might not be an answer to this, but why do you think that it built to that crescendo?

I'm not sure.

Maybe because, you know, because I told myself that I'd beaten the fire, so like normal life shouldn't be hard.

Because I told myself that I didn't need help for anyone, and I could do everything by myself because I didn't have very good boundaries with strangers, but also people that I work with or people in my work life.

Yeah, I think maybe those are some of the reasons.

Because I find it so curious about you, A real tell about you.

Oh gosh, do I have it to well?

I just think because psychologically, I think what you achieve is extraordinary anyway, even for someone who hasn't experienced what you've experienced.

Like you've moved a family three times, you've lived on your own, you do marathons, you've got a running club, you know, you do everything, and yet you say, post the fire, none of these things should be hard.

Yeah, but of course these things are also harder for you because it's post the fire.

But you don't allow yourself that little bit of grace at.

All, or you didn't no, And I think that's what I learn about burnout too, right, because I felt like I felt pathetic having burnout because whilst I did work hard, I wasn't like a surgeon working eighty hours a week, right.

But what I learned about burnout is it's more common amongst women, more common amongst women who have really high standards, more common amongst women who are caring for others, so like kids or older parents are you know, even sometimes doing both at the same time.

It's more common amongst women who are marginalized or who a woman of color or live with the disability.

So when I learned all of that stuff, I suppose cogs started to turn in my mind.

And no matter how long I've been screaming not it shouldn't be hard, it shouldn't be hard, it shouldn't be hard, it actually was fucking hard.

Actually was really hard.

Even though if I'm being honest, Yeah, you go on social media, you see everyone else's highlights reel everything else they're doing and achieving with eight kids.

I'm thinking valerin a farm.

Trad wives, the trade wife, the ciger, Like, how.

Are they doing that?

Their homeschool and eight kids.

They're been doing ballet, They're doing ballet.

They've got like they've got a body of a super bottle.

They're just like they're out there milk and the cows.

Even though I'm on social media, I know it's not I know it's not reflect I know it's not real.

I suppose it does influence our our perceptions.

Well.

Also, when people would look at your highlight reels.

Yeah, I mean I would think that of you.

I try not to do that because I've been the person looking at social media feeling shit about my own life.

So I try to be I hate this word, but I try to be likethentic.

I tried to be myself.

I tried to let people know that it's okay to ask for help, that it's okay if you're struggling, that it's okay if you're not coping.

But this is the weird thing.

I gave all of this really great advice.

You know, if you're struggling to tell someone I didn't.

I didn't take it.

I didn't take it myself.

But so often the case.

Yeah it is.

Now that I've been through it, I don't want it to happen again.

But I suppose now, after I was burnt, it was pretty fucking obvious why I would need mental health support.

But I suppose last year the reasons, to me, at least, were less obvious.

After what I've learned, I understand myself a little bit more after writing the book, I understand myself a little bit more.

But I also think that there were some warning signs leading up to that right, So feeling like you've got no time in the day, and you get up at night and you try and work, but you can't do anything because your brain hasn't rested, it hasn't switched off.

That could have been a warning side to me that something wasn't quite right.

And so go and through that experience.

I feel like if I get to that point again, I'll say, Okay, I think I know what I need.

I need.

I need some support, or I need to ask I need to get my kids into after school care two days a week just so I can get a bit of breathing space.

Or I need to tell Michael how I'm feeling and so that he's going to take more of the load on it at home.

Or I'm just going to fucking take a sick day at work and I'm not going to do anything.

So I think I've got all of those strategies.

Now, when you talk about Michael, who is himself a remarkable person, Yes, I would expect you to have a remarkable partner.

How aware or unaware was he of what was going on with you when you were floundering.

He was unaware.

He had started a new job and he was working at big chunks of time, and I didn't want him to be like distracted or to have to worry about me because he'd started something, something new.

And I suppose there's a bit of guilt there too, because whilst my life has changed, his life has also changed to And I was so happy for him, and I was so proud of him, and so I suppose I didn't want him to come back after two weeks of work and they'd be like, so I want to, you know, I want to tell you what's been happening with me.

So I don't think I don't think he was aware.

Was there a part of you as well that when he came back you didn't want to be the person that wasn't the capable person you'd always prided yourself on being.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

You know.

I wanted to preach down that we'd been good, the boys had been happy, like the house had been running smoothly, work was going good.

I suppose I wanted to present that to him so that he wasn't he wasn't worried about what was happening at home, so he could concentrate on his job.

Again.

In retrospect, that was a fucking stupid idea, you know what I mean, Like because the more people in, the more you give them context, the more they understand.

Yes, you know.

And I could have said to Michael Haye when you go away, I really struggle, you know, and I don't want to struggle, and maybe we could have come up with some ideas at the time to help us navigate that that I just just closed everything off.

And I didn't tell him because I thought I was doing the right thing, because I didn't want to worry him.

But I wasn't thinking about what I needed.

You know.

I expected myself to just be able to solve it, just be able to deal with it, just be able to roll with it, just be able to navigate it, do it all myself, not tell anyone.

And even if I didn't have any idea of how to cope, well fuck it, I had to.

That was my mentality.

And it didn't.

It didn't turn out well, you know, it didn't turn out.

Well, that never does that never does.

I think I was so arogo because I was like, you know what, I know everyone around me would say this is a bad idea, but I'm really confident that that me to reappear I can pull this off.

What was the moment when you confess to him?

I didn't.

I didn't actually confess to him.

I told him when I got a mental health care plan.

Oh yeah, I told him that.

And he's always been so supportive, so he was like, yeah, darl if that's what you need to do, that's a that's a great idea.

You know.

He's like the most the loveliest, kindest men, So he was so so supportive.

And I suppose since I've come out of that fog, I've been able to share with him more and more about what last year was like for.

Me, and has he been surprised by that.

Michael was very unphased by like most stuff that happens, so he hasn't been like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that.

He's just been like, oh yeah, okay.

Yeah.

He's very, very very unfazed and unflappable.

But it's interesting because when I was writing this book, and particularly with the mental load chapter, I sent out a survey and I think I got because like a thousand people responded to me, and I got an insight into how other people managed this stuff in their home lives.

And while some of the women had tried to communicate with their partners, a lot of them actually didn't, you know, so maybe there's a lot of women out there.

Here they kept it to themselves.

Yeah, because again, you want to be you want to keep the family together, You want to make sure everyone else is okay.

You just think I'll fucking slid it out myself at another point, you know, laid it down the track.

Also, it's been kind of a it's a modern trap that I think we're more conscious of now, even if we don't necessarily act upon it.

Oh my gosh.

You know, in the nineties, I was raised by my mom.

We moved here from Tahiti.

I was raised by mom.

I've got three brothers.

She worked full time, she cooked dinner, the household ran smoothly, and every night she'd write.

So that was my like, that was my role model growing up.

And she never complained, never wined.

She was stressed, She was stressed a lot of the time, but she just did it all.

And I think Michael's mum was.

The same too, same with my mother in law.

Yeah, that's just what women did.

And again that's part of the reason why I felt like a little bit because I was like all of these other women around you, all of these older women that you look up turning respect, they've all done this, they've been through it.

But again, what was great about writing was that when I was sharing it with my mom, she said she was like, I was so unhappy.

She was like, I just I couldn't let your kids know.

But you never knew so unhappy.

You never knew.

No.

And again, it's not a kid's job.

It's not their job to make sure that your needs are met.

And she actually says that to you.

In fact, that whole part in your book where you go to Tahiti and you take your boys and your brothers are there and you yeah, that is a remarkable journey.

But also you came back with such revelations there, including about your mom's life.

Yeah, because so mom moved back to Tahiti to look after her mom, and she lived on a little atole over there on our ancestral land, and she would time with these stories on the phone, and it sounded all sounded so idyllic, you know, like a nephew dropping around fish, she's going to her cousin's house to teach the kids English.

It was this real network of kinship, everyone helping each other, and that's not what life feels like for the most part in our modern Western world.

You know, you have a village, but you know it's after school care or it's something that you're paying for.

And I realized that what I'd done up until that point is I tried to be selfless, put everyone needs before my own.

But because everyone else was so busy and so involved with their life, they didn't have the capacity to check back in with me to make sure that my needs were being met too, So it was it was good.

Mum's style works if you live in a traditional village, but with the way our Western world is set up for now, I'm not saying it couldn't be better.

I don't think it works, or at least it hasn't hasn't worked for me because when I've given and given and given, I've just ended up with the dregs at the bottom of the cup.

And then she talked to you, which is such a great concept for everybody, and it's a Tahitian concept, or she uses the term your mana, is it yours?

Yeah?

Manna?

Yeah manner, So manna is like a Polynesian concept and it's like you're you're in a force or you're your spiritual power.

Right, maybe you could even think of it as like you're in a child or you know when people say you've got to protect protect your peace, have you ever heard that?

Yes, yes, it may be a little bit similar.

And so what I realized after talking with Mom, because I talked with Mom the whole way through this book, she gave me such insight for each different each different stage that I was at.

But she said that I needed to restore my manner because I just been giving it away, giving it away, not having boundaries, doing this, doing that, not checking in with my own needs.

And that's part of the reason why I was so depleted.

She used a Tararitian She used Tarititian words for the laugh of me.

I can't.

I can't fucking remember what they they they.

If I could have Revi, it would be a lot cooler, but I can't.

But she recognized in you how depleted you were.

Yes, yeah, because I told her everything that had been going on.

So she said, you need to restore your manner, and how do you do that?

Yeah, So she said, your manner can be restored.

It's basically like self care.

Right, So going for a walk with a friend, she said, like swimming in a river, and I was like, I don't know if she knows what Australia's like.

It's not heaps of not.

But also she said, your manner can be violated when there is an assault on your dignity.

That sounded really hardcore, but with the boundaries thing, that did feel like a circumstance where my sensive dignity was being violated.

Right.

That's amazing.

When she said that to you, did you put those pieces together straight away?

Or it took a little while to recognize.

No.

No, Because I would speak to my mom.

She would just download all of this Polynesian knowledge and information onto me and then I would say, Okay, I gotta go mom, And then I would think about it after and then write down some of it.

So I didn't recognize it straight away at all.

It was probably a couple of days after that.

But I liked how I liked how seriously she took the idea right, and the words she used, like an assault on your dignity, your manner was being violated, they're quite strong.

And even with this idea of self care, I had always assumed it was like bubble bas and like a trial step skin care regime and this and that.

But self care is actually an idea that was popularized by the Black Panthers in America in the nineteen seventies, and they realized that if they were going to advocate for racial equality, that they needed to take care of themselves, and they looked at it as self preservation.

So I think almost politicizing these concepts from me has made me take it more seriously.

So if I go to the gym, I'm not just I'm not just fucking going to the gym.

I'm looking after myself.

That's what I need to do to preserve my sense of self.

That's what I need to do to make sure that I'm okay in this crazy modern world that we navigate.

Don't Go Anywhere.

Next to Read discusses why women in particular are so prone to burn out when you are engaging in this concept of self care that I think a lot of people, a lot of women, let's say women might not teend to do because of being scared of being selfish.

Did you address it with Michael and say this is what I'm going to start to do, or did you just do it, and was it even noticed?

I just did it.

I just did it, and it wasn't it wasn't noticed.

No.

Yeah, And this is the thing.

I'd been waiting for someone to tap me on the shoulder and be like, hey, Teria, go for a run, you know, go out to lunch with your friends.

Michael had never never stopped me from doing any of those activities before.

I just felt like I wasn't entitled to it.

And I know it's not just me.

There's been so much literature down about how women and this is broadbrush Stokes Kate, so definitely not saying this is the case for every woman out there, but for most women, we don't feel entitled to take leisure for ourselves.

And part of that is the idea that women are valorized for how selfless they are, yes, for how giving they are.

Look at Mother's Day, Yeah, it's always a celebration of your cook you're cleaner, yep, you know, yep, yeah.

How much you do for everyone else?

And also, by the way, can I just say, I think there's a certain nobility in that, and there's a beauty in what a lot of women have, which is a nurturing capacity.

I don't disrespect that at all, but when it comes to the point where it's actually depleting you and meaning that you're not enjoying your own life, because love is the most effective way of enslaving anybody, and you're living like a slave, then it's a problem.

Yeah.

And I consider myself to be a nurturer and caring, beautiful, loving, compassionate woman.

But we have this this idea or you know, women are placed on this pedestal for how much they do for everyone else, you know.

So that's part of the reason why we don't feel like it's okay for us to go to the gym, or to catch up with a girlfriend for a coffee, or to go to polities.

Even how we talk about women's fitness, you know, pilates for example, which is if anyone does pilarates, it's they know it's really fucking hard, but we almost talk about it in a condescending way.

Or even with surfing, it gets I don't know if you've ever heard this, Kate, it gets called girfing.

Oh when girls do it.

Yeah, when girls go for a surf, it's.

Like, oh, no, I haven't heard.

It's like, oh, you're going for a girf, like, how lucky are you?

So again, we're not taking it seriously, we're trivializing it.

We're saying, oh, well, guys are surfing, but women are down here because they're only girfing, and so you know, this is not going to be everyone's experience at all.

But that was the literature that I found when I was writing this book.

You know, because you're in a very happy relationship.

Oh, I'm going to just jump in Kate, this is what I mean.

I realized, Sorry, I realized how number one, how supportive Michael is.

But we are in a happy relationship.

Because when women wrote back to my mental load survey, the answers that I read, we're heartbreaking, you know, because some other women were punished, punished for broaching the subject of the mental load or for daring to have the audacity to suggest that their partnership in every now and again, so they were ghastly there was physical abuse.

So for those women it wasn't it actually wasn't safe for them to talk with their partner about how they were going to share the mental load.

And even putting those experiences to one side.

For people that are in a traditional relationship and a happy one.

There is a difference in my experience.

And my husband's a most brilliant, you know, modern man who raised our kids when I was at work, you know, doing breakfast radio for twelve years or whatever, so he can run a household.

He doesn't have weaponized incompetence except when it comes to washing.

But in my experience, and I found myself in a very similar situation to you when our kids were little and I was working and I had four kids under six, And I said to Peter at the time, yeah, I said to Peter at the time, I remember this, Yeah, I feel like I'm working so that everyone else can have a beautiful life except me.

And then it caused me to He was so shocked by that, right, because they don't necessarily see the same things as we discussed that we feel maybe we're good at hiding them, but also we expect men to be anticipatory of our needs the way our girlfriends are.

Like a girlfriend will go, oh my goodness, you need to get away, you need to data, let's do a thing, let's do it.

In my experience, men don't necessarily operate or see things the same way.

No, and like thank fun, Thank fuck they dies, And like, you know, I recognize what a privileged position it is to be in to have a happy relationship, and then to be like, oh, he doesn't he doesn't operate in the way, yes, that I would like him to operate in.

So I.

Know that about Michael.

Even though I know that I probably do still sometimes get shitty when he doesn't read my mind and get the groceries that I wanted, even though I didn't ask him for the things that I wanted.

So yeah, I probably still do still do get shitty at him for stuff like that.

But that's the message of your book, which was initially for yourself and now you're sharing it with others, is that the onus is on you to protect yourself, to recognize what your self needs and hints the selfish.

Yeah, And you know, if I was in burnout last year and someone said the onus is on you, Teria, to protect yourself, I probably would have told that person to get fucked, you know, because you're so you're so you're so overwhelmed, you're so stressed, you're so burned out.

And so if people are in burnout right now and they're listening to this and they're thinking, go fuck yourself, ter Rea, I understand.

They've got a long way through the podcast to me now thinking go fuck yourself to Rea.

Yeah, but I understand.

And there are some really great strategies out there that you can try to help alleviate that sense of burnout.

But I would recommend the book on Burnout by the Nagosky Twins as a starting as a starting place.

But ultimately I think the book is about looking after your own well being, protecting your peace, looking after your manner, making sure you're doing things to restore or that I suppose those levels of matter, but maybe also not having unrealistic expectations of yourself, you know, not expecting yourself to be able to work a full day, come home, cook a home cooke to me, I'll take the kids all of their sport, read them a story at the end of the day.

Maybe you can do that some days, and that's that's amazing, that's wonderful.

But on the days where you feel so drained and so depleted, maybe you just say, hey, what's one thing I could do which is going to make this day feel a little bit easier.

Since you've been implementing these strategies, how has your day to day life changed.

Oh, it's like chalk and cheese compared to last year.

But I do feel more boring, ah, because I'm not no.

This is the other side of the climb.

Because people ask me to do things, I'm like, you know what, that's gonna that might push me over the edge.

So I'm actually going to say no to that.

So maybe I'm being extra cautious this year, and maybe that will change in a few years.

But I feel well.

I feel strong physically and mentally, which is amazing after so many years of feeling frazzled and stressed.

You feel happy.

I feel I don't know if I think this has been a pot an interview which has really tested my intellectual bounds.

So thank you, Kate.

No, but I feel good.

I feel good.

Because you've actually written a book about happiness.

I was going to recommend it to you.

This is this is a fucking irony.

When I went to get my mental health care plan, I sat in the GP's office and I saw my book on happiness right there, bright yellow cover.

I look really hot, my hair is blowing in the wind machine.

And then I had to say, hey, you know, and I read that book on happiness, but I'm actually here for a mental health care planned.

Well, if we know one thing about life, know that it humbles us all.

And haven't I been fucking humbled?

I thought I was a bit of a big dog, surviving the fire, doing iron Man Rold Championships, traveling around the world, giving motivational speeches, having a run club, writing these books, and then last year it all just came undone.

So I have been Yeah, I've actually been really humbled by life.

I didn't think of it like that, but that's a good way to think of it.

Yeah, very humbled.

You know the other thing I think about, Michael, Yeah, maybe years ago twenty eleven when you were caught in the fire, and sometime after that, you know, the whole world was kind of watching you from a distance.

Obviously, is she going to survive?

Is she?

And then through your various operations and rehabilitations in your stepping into public life, in and out of it.

But Michael said the most amazing thing.

He said, people talk about going to hell and back, but Teria went to hell and Hell spat her out.

That's it is?

That is he a poet?

Oh is just the most I'm like, is this guy a copper?

Is he a copper, a helicopter pilot or what it?

Yes, he's a poet, but also has such a profound, deep and abiding love and respect for you and the essence of who you are that is shared by many of us.

Really, yeah, And I wouldn't have been able to write any of the books I have because you know, writing is such a vulnerable experience.

You know, you're putting your darkest thoughts, your deepest fears, You're putting it out all there on a page, then you're publishing it, then you're going on podcast interviews to talk about all of that dark shit that you put in a book.

And if Michael was a different man, maybe he would say, I don't want you to put out put that out there on the public record, or I don't want you to tell that hot chocolate story, or I don't want you to say this, or I don't want you to say to say that.

And I don't say I was sitting on the couch, don't.

Say I was sitting on the couch.

Say I was doing the dishes, don't say that.

No, So like you would, I wouldn't be able to do that.

If he wasn't the person that he was.

Why don't you marry him?

Then?

I lie, we need to mate.

We've had two kids, We've gone through fucking COVID, We've moved three times.

I've written seven books.

Yes, okay, just.

I don't want to add to your mental live You're to it.

Yeah, I lie.

You know what the kids are asking us to They're like, why are you guys married?

Yes?

Yeah, and what do you say?

I just like, yeah, it's on the fucking list along with no we do we.

Do it, along with buying the right hot chocolate.

Yeah, we know, we do want to get married.

And I think, because now I'm going to be like, I'm thirty eight this year, so I think i'd probably have my boys walking down the aisle.

Sorry, sorry dad, because I feel like I feel like it's dad's walking down the aisle when you're a bit of a younger bride.

But I feel like, I don't know, I want my kids to walk me down the aisle.

Dad can have the first dance.

Yeah, he can have the first dance.

Yeah.

To repit, What a gift you are to the nation and the world.

You really are.

Your manner is strong.

You've got strong manner.

You can use that now, Okay, I'll let you use that.

I love it.

I love that concept because sometimes you're not sure what you know.

There's not always time to work out exactly what everything is, but you always know when something's a little bit off.

You do know, Yeah, you do know.

And I've learned to stop expecting myself to just absorb all of that stress and that anxiety and stop expecting myself to somehow figure it out by myself internally without sharing it with anyone else.

You know, when you talk about how people, through curiosity or rudeness or whatever misguided interest, breach your personal boundaries when they ask about your appearance or what happened to you, what would you like people to do or say, Oh.

So, I look.

I teach my kids that it's not polite to comment on people's bodies, Like so, if there is someone who is for whatever reason, you feel like maybe they look different, maybe they have a disability, maybe they're really really tall, whatever it is.

I think what I teach my kid is just don't come out on people's bodies because maybe they'll be fine with that and be happy to answer questions, but maybe also not.

And it's probably just best to just not comment on it.

Well to reappitch, I will comment on what a remark writer you are.

I really appreciate you reading the book too.

Thank you.

Oh, I really cannot recommend this book highly enough.

Yeah, because it's a very strange.

When I read the book, I'm like, what does she want?

What does she want?

What else does she want?

And I want?

Well, yes, but what is the quest?

Yeah?

Yeah, and what is the quest?

To reappeach The quest for me is to keep being a bit selfish, even though it's hard at times, making sure I make that time to do things for myself.

And when if Michael is away at work or for whatever reason, I can't make time to do those acts of self care, maybe there's still things I can do, you know, even though it feels good at the time.

Maybe I don't drink the alcohol even though it feels good at the time.

Or maybe I just put my phone down because that's going to make me feel a bit more frazzled, write and a little bit more edge.

Maybe I think about I know, I said I was going to do all of these things today, but I've waken up fairly tired.

What can I cancel?

What can I move what can I push out until next week?

To reappit.

I look forward to everything that you do, even if it's just you sitting on the couch.

May you enjoy it?

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

I appreciate it.

Well, that was such a fascinating discussion to reappit.

Who's a writer, a mother, a runner, a survivor, and now, by her own proud admission, selfish is an extraordinary person.

Her new book is out now and it's one of those reads that makes you rethink the stories we tell ourselves about what we owe other people and what we owe ourselves.

And her message is simple, but I guess radical.

Being selfish doesn't make you a bad person.

In fact, it might just make you a better one.

Thanks for listening to No Filter.

The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown.

The senior producer is bre Player.

Audio production is by Tina Mattloff, and video editing is by Josh Green.

This episode was recorded at Session in Progress Studios.

I am your host, Kate Langbrook and I will see you next Monday.

Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast is recorded on