[SPEAKER_04]: I'm Commander Sheppard, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel.

[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to the Mass Effect lorecast.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm Insevin the Legend.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm Genesis.

[SPEAKER_07]: Join us.

[SPEAKER_06]: As we explore along tides of light.

[SPEAKER_06]: And through sholes of dust.

[SPEAKER_06]: To see where this lore began.

[SPEAKER_07]: And consider where it may go.

[SPEAKER_06]: Specters, so welcome back to the Mass Effect Lorcass, the show where the FCC and Disney cannot tell us what to say.

[SPEAKER_06]: And joining me as always is Genesis, Genesis, how are you doing?

[SPEAKER_07]: Very uncensored.

[SPEAKER_06]: Uncensored, unbothered, flourishing in our lane, and we have a great Laura episode for everyone today.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so I like that staying in the lane.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm just doing me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're living our lives.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not even as a best life.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm just gonna say lives.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we've been teasing this episode for a hot minute.

[SPEAKER_06]: Paul Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: were finally here and this is a name that a lot of players may be familiar with and if you're not don't beat yourself up because this is not a character from any of the games in the original trilogy or in drama.

[SPEAKER_06]: In fact, I don't think he's even mentioned in the trilogy, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think Grayson might be book exclusive.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, he's a server's agent.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's introduced in the novels, specifically in Mass Effect Assension.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's the second of the trilogy of novels by Mass Effect One's lead writer Drew Carpishen.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so Paul is somewhat of an antsy hero.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I'll say somewhat, [SPEAKER_06]: because it's a bit more complicated than that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we'll talk through this over the next two episodes, because this is going to be our part one.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're going to have a part two as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we're going to dive into a lot of what makes Paul Grayson tick.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now we're not going to go page by page and you know, like [SPEAKER_06]: read you everything that he's involved in.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you really want to read the books, uh, she could read them.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, they're also very, uh, very great to listen to on audiobook.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought the narrator did a great job.

[SPEAKER_07]: For the most part, yeah, there were a couple of things that really stick out to me in the audiobook version, which I do fully enjoy, but it's Kaylee, Kaylee Sanders, not Kolly, and it's Koryan, they are the Koryans, not the Koryans, the Koryans, Koryans, Koryans, I think he said a couple of times and I was just like, the Koryans, it's little things like that that'll stick out to me.

[SPEAKER_06]: The querience.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I, so a little background for everybody.

[SPEAKER_06]: I have read this book and listen to audiobook, but it was like more than I want to say like about two years ago, whereas Genesis, you just finished the audiobook like re-listening to it for a second time like today, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I had an hour left to go through for today, but yes, it's not my first time going through it.

[SPEAKER_07]: I read it again.

[SPEAKER_07]: It was like a couple years ago that I read the first time.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, I just want a full refresh and it's a nine hour audio book.

[SPEAKER_07]: Very easy to get through in a day.

[SPEAKER_06]: So before we go any further, let's talk about what Grayson physically looks like since we don't have an artistic representation of him in the games.

[SPEAKER_06]: He is described as being tall, dark hair and handsome and I want to say handsome with a question mark because it never says he's handsome, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: But it says it uses other language to describe him where you're kind of led to believe that he's good looking.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think it's more of a non-descript good looking.

[SPEAKER_07]: They didn't really put a major face to him.

[SPEAKER_07]: I have seen it that they think the cover of a sunshine is supposed to be him.

[SPEAKER_07]: And in that case, he's kind, that guy's kind of handsome, but he's also got a lot of cybernetics and gear coming off of his face, which is not described at all on the book for grace.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so I don't think it's him.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think you're referencing the cover of retribution, in which case it very well could be him, but we will get to why that's the case a little bit later.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to spoil anything for anyone.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a character flaw that is so critical to understanding Paul Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it is his ongoing addiction with Red Sand.

[SPEAKER_06]: He is so deep in the throws of addiction that he is visibly addicted.

[SPEAKER_06]: this red sand addiction like we hear in the games, he has these bloodshot eyes almost terminally and his teeth are all discolored, which both of those symptoms sound like these typical things that happen to hard drug users.

[SPEAKER_07]: absolutely, yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: That and it's described as hills sometimes be shaky or not focusing while in the middle of conversations, but I also wanted to point out that it's not like your standard discoloration of the teeth.

[SPEAKER_07]: You can actually see them glowing.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's almost like they have a biotic sheen about them.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so that is very unique.

[SPEAKER_06]: That is, can you imagine seeing someone who's like clearly strung out and for all intents and purposes they look like they might be addicted to drugs except their smile is like a radioactive coldgate commercial.

[SPEAKER_07]: Exactly, that's a very weird dynamic going on there.

[SPEAKER_07]: But then again, very unique and very massive act.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nine out of 10 dentists, Sregnant, red sand.

[SPEAKER_06]: Don't trust those dentists, especially if they're employed by it never mind.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the withdrawal period's really take a toll on Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we get some pretty vivid imagery written in the books about this region.

[SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm, we do.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it seems like in the beginning parts of the book, anything over like 24 hours of him not taking red sand gets him into this withdrawal phase, where he is sweating and it sounds almost like any standard drug withdrawal, you get [SPEAKER_07]: Shaking and sweating and you get cramps in your muscles and just that addiction voice in your head going You need another hit you need to take another line Red sand they describe it as it's a powder that you snort like you would cocaine [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And of course, the main draw of taking this drug to a lot of people isn't just a sense of euphoria, but it's also, it gives nonbiotics users a little taste of what it's like to have biotics.

[SPEAKER_06]: They can.

[SPEAKER_06]: use telekinesis to basically manipulate very small items.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's not, it doesn't make them a biotic god.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like Nif2Cowl says, although we're led to believe that he is a red sand addict.

[SPEAKER_07]: right.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I think Grace and just does it enough to get that initial euphoria and the small level of biotic use.

[SPEAKER_07]: In one scene he is high and we he talks about floating paper around his room and being able to control it and then the giddy and the joy that you get from using your biotics.

[SPEAKER_07]: Kate and N.

Lyara and Jacob all talk about this humming, this frenetic energy that they feel within their body when they're using biotics.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so that is part of what this drug replicates for people who are non biotics.

[SPEAKER_06]: And part of the reason is because Ezo is involved in its production, like it's made from Ezo, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: And I believe it was first made on Mars.

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so that could be a possible source of that name Redsand.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, but as far as Grayson goes like any addict, we see in the book that he's trying to walk this tight rope of not letting his addiction affect his work, or what little personal life he has.

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but it's not like the elucid man doesn't know that he is addicted to Redsand.

[SPEAKER_06]: right you can tell and the elusive man definitely knows you just got to look at the guy and you know you're on something he's you can't hide it basically red sand is one of those drugs that you really can't hide your addiction to but for Paul that means that he's often thinking about his next hit he's he's he's basically making these mental roadmaps about you know [SPEAKER_06]: in private.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I was noticed that was interesting in the blocks that he is going to great lengths when he does get high that he's going to do it in private.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so we get this insight that Grayson is ashamed of his drug usage.

[SPEAKER_07]: Correct, ashamed of it and not in the full throes of addiction yet.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, he is addicted, but he's a functioning addict.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's not, [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he still gets the job done, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: He's not, he's sorry.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's not fully functioning, but he definitely still does everything that he's supposed to be doing and just wants to keep this aspect of his life hidden as much as he can.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so I feel like he is in what I would call and what I've heard other people call the maintenance phase of addiction where he is purely just taking the drug so that his withdraw stays at bay.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, but he's also seeking the hits.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's not like, you know, like we said, this is a character flaw that repeatedly appears over and over in his story and it has this profound impact on how he acts.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's also kind of this, um, uh, theme that eludes to his ongoing moral [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it plays a huge part in it, you know, addiction plays a huge part in all aspects of life.

[SPEAKER_06]: And this also means in terms of his work for Cerberus that he's essentially compromised from the very start, which you one might think that the elusive man would have a problem with one of his agents that's doing what work, that he would have a problem with them being compromised, being open to black, being blackmailed.

[SPEAKER_06]: But then again, this gives the elusive man extraordinary leverage over Grayson.

[SPEAKER_07]: because he could probably block the routes of Red San to him or use it as a control factor.

[SPEAKER_07]: I will get hook you up with better distributors, even more and higher quality.

[SPEAKER_07]: But speaking of that, how does the relationship with Grace and in Cerberus start out?

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, so Grayson is a field operative for Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_06]: He is not this guy that's sitting in a lab like the scientists that we meet on some uncharted worlds in Mass Effect 1 out of the gate.

[SPEAKER_06]: He is doing what work for the elusive man, specifically sabotage and assassination missions.

[SPEAKER_06]: So there are two key moments that really shape Grayson's involvement with Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_06]: Number one, [SPEAKER_06]: You remember when we talked about the Elfeld Ashland Energy Company and the conspiracy about Cerberus blowing up ships over the planet Yandoa to intentionally expose pregnant women to Ezo dust.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we talked about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what number episode that was.

[SPEAKER_06]: I believe Tom was actually my coast at that point, but we've talked about it since then.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that was Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: Grayson was the server's agent involved in that.

[SPEAKER_06]: So around 2170, he sabotaged that L.D.

[SPEAKER_06]: Phil Ashland energy ship that was in orbit.

[SPEAKER_06]: And lo and behold, the Ezo dust did fall, or it was in the atmosphere, and it did fall onto the surface of Yandoah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it created some biotics.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now it left.

[SPEAKER_06]: Many more children, or I should say fetuses, dead, and if the children were born, they were born with defects or cancers.

[SPEAKER_06]: But 37 children were relatively healthy after being born, and they did develop biotic abilities.

[SPEAKER_06]: One of those 37 children was named Gillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: And she was later kidnapped by Cerberus, and then quote unquote, given to Paul Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now this is how it's described in the book that she was given to Paul Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: I never liked that description that you could give a human being to someone else.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's not a gift, you know, they didn't go through an adoption agency, they didn't go through any shape or form of that and it's also We're saying children that one of the children was Jillian, you know, she's still pretty much a baby at this point, well, under a year old Because in while they were describing this scene is that the elusive man was holding the baby [SPEAKER_07]: And that just like, that's it, panic in my own body, I can't think of the elusive man holding a baby that picture should not exist.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't, I would never trust him to hold my son.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, she was kidnapped and then trafficked, essentially, by service, and the elusive man hands her to Paul Grayson and tasks him with raising her as if he was her father.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like this is a long, con, deep, covered thing that he's doing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the intention is to make her this long term case study in human potential of biotics.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's horrendous and brings up so many ethical questions surrounding this, not only the kidnapping, the trafficking, why does Paul just agree to the fact of, oh, you're handing me a random baby, sure I'll take care of it.

[SPEAKER_07]: And there's a lot of things that are unanswered that I don't like about this.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a lot of factors going into that completely unethical mission, I should say, none of which are the welfare of Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm sure that the elucid man would say that this is for her welfare and it's for the welfare of all human beings, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: The advancement of humanity.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yet, this is a huge lie that is, of course, going to change Jillian's entire life, you know, like if Cerberus hadn't never have metled, she wouldn't have developed biotics.

[SPEAKER_06]: She would probably still be with her family.

[SPEAKER_06]: Her life would be incredibly different.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yet now, we have this Cerberus wet work agent who's been involved in [SPEAKER_06]: being her adoptive father and it's not one of those like like that funny like Vin Diesel movie where he plays the babysitter You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's not like one of those movies.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, oh, the incredibly deadly spies now playing, you know The babysitter.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, it's not like that because he's still working for servers So he's still working for servers this whole time and this is part of his job [SPEAKER_06]: That's the first moment that really changes Paul Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: The second one is three years later.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's the night of his first kill.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we get this in one of the opening scenes of Mass Effect Assension where Paul Grayson is having this nightmare of remembering the first kill.

[SPEAKER_06]: So in 2173 he was on this undercover mission to take out a leading candidate for leadership of the terra firma party.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's that human supremacist political party trying to gain more power in galactic politics.

[SPEAKER_06]: The candidate's name was Claude Mino, but the problem was, well, Claude Mino was leading another candidate Charles Seracino in the polls.

[SPEAKER_06]: That name should ring a bell to everyone who's played Mass Effect 1.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think Seracino appears a Mass Effect 2.

[SPEAKER_06]: Does he?

[SPEAKER_07]: No, because no matter the outcome of that, he's still, he won't show up into.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a chance encounter on the near-the-med Bay in the wards, right, of Mass Effect 1, on the Citadel.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, so Claude Mano is actually leading Charles Seracino in those polls, for leadership of the Terraforma Party, but the problem was that the elusive man didn't like Mano [SPEAKER_06]: So the elusive man ordered Mano to be disappeared.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, quote quote disappeared.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, 24 and disappeared.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure that the elusive man had his altruistic reasons, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so Grayson and his partner then, his partner Pel are acting as Mano's flight crew.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're undercover again.

[SPEAKER_06]: Their acting is the flight crew to take Mano to Sean Shee for a rally, and they went mask off.

[SPEAKER_06]: after the bird was in the air or space.

[SPEAKER_06]: So to speak.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the ship is flying through space, Grayson and Pele take the mask off.

[SPEAKER_06]: Grayson kills Manose bodyguard and Pele walks into the cabin and kills Manose.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it it's not a clean kill and he does have some hesitancy about it in the beginning but then completely follows through with the orders once he hears his trigger phase he is on and it makes his first kill and then this is something that dehumanizes Grayson which makes him more susceptible to taking more orders from the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, absolutely, and I mean, even a decade later, he's still haunted by this, the reason that we find out about his first kill and the night that Jillian was brought to him is because these are his reoccurring dreams.

[SPEAKER_07]: and it's something that is always on his mind.

[SPEAKER_07]: He prefers the Menodream rather than the Jillian dream because the Jillian dream makes him feel sad, makes him feel it brings like the sadder emotions that he can't be with his quote quote daughter.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I thought that part of it was interesting as well that he would rather dream of killing somebody rather than having to deal with the hard emotions that involve Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it shows that he has some kind of conscience, though that conscience is twisted and distorted by what he's asked to do for service for so long.

[SPEAKER_07]: I also really want to know, Jillian at this point is three years old.

[SPEAKER_07]: Where is she?

[SPEAKER_07]: Who is she with?

[SPEAKER_06]: Great question.

[SPEAKER_07]: My daddy's out murdering people.

[SPEAKER_07]: Who am I staying with?

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, he's just on a business trip.

[SPEAKER_06]: Honey, your daddy will be back soon.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm guessing that they found some kind of galactic daycare.

[SPEAKER_07]: Service daycare.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I want to know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yikes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure that they have a great snack machine and plenty of outdoor time.

[SPEAKER_07]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, outdoor time or tablet time.

[SPEAKER_07]: Learn all these great things, children.

[SPEAKER_07]: Propaganda, propaganda.

[SPEAKER_06]: They have a shooting range for children and all the targets are aliens.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Yukon Cornelius and Chad here says, that's more and is first assignment babysitting.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that timeline might line up, um, but she says she's, isn't she like, uh, 40 something or 50 something in Mass Effect too?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think so.

[SPEAKER_07]: She's in her early 40s.

[SPEAKER_07]: I want to say.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, she's much older than you think because of her genes, but yeah, that timeline might head up.

[SPEAKER_06]: So this isn't exactly, you know, like they're not the elucid man isn't just planning on having grace and be Mr.

Dad and that's that.

[SPEAKER_07]: Right, he has much bigger plans for Gillian.

[SPEAKER_07]: So let's talk about this total game plan for Gillian and her burdening, or her burgeoning, biotic abilities.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, she's not kept as this lab rat either aboard some server station, but server does have Grayson poses her father so that he can enlist her in the alliances gifted biotic students academy.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's named the Ascension Project.

[SPEAKER_06]: his cover story is that he is the single widower and a very important businessmen from court his love aerospace.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sounds like the beginning to like a hallmark Christmas movie.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah for sure.

[SPEAKER_07]: Dad's all important in his big corporate world and here I am trying to be the best at my biotics.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm at my biotic talent show and where's my dad on an important business trip murdering people.

[SPEAKER_06]: So if Cored Hyslop Aerospace sounds familiar to you, it's because the Lucimant is non-credibly original in the names of his shell companies.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's another lie because Cored Hyslop Aerospace is a shell company for Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_06]: Cored Hyslop refers to Eva Corre, who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the [SPEAKER_06]: and Ben Hyslop has two companions on the Mass Effect Evolution comic from way back when he was known as Jack and he was going, I'm sorry, I can't remember the elusive man's original last name, Jack Harper, that's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Jack Harper, when he was known as Jack Harper as an mercenary, and he was on Shunche, and he stumbled onto this conspiracy involving Seren and Seren's brother.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yada yada yada anyway, we covered that in a different episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Court his love is a reference to Corey and his love.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he clearly cannot let that go.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, no, he can't let Eva Corey go.

[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, that's why she exists again, but we've talked about ED before for sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I can never get enough ED.

[SPEAKER_06]: So Jillian is being taught how to harness her powers in this ascension project.

[SPEAKER_06]: Meanwhile, Grayson is playing the loving but busy and distant father who occasionally checks in and somehow no one really catches on to what he really does.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Do you remember any kind of tense conversations where someone's questioning him about that?

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that definitely happens with one the main security officer, but I think that we can definitely get into that side of the story of how much hankold does not like Grayson after the midbrake.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's go to the midbrake.

[SPEAKER_06]: We have beef bacon.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have beer, the foods of my people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Young men have funny ideas of what a star you're like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I blame the extra net and computer games.

[SPEAKER_04]: Rex, Shepherd, Grant, Shepherd, Rex, Grant?

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show where we typically read out your five star reviews.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now, I just checked yesterday and I'll check again, but I don't believe we have any new five star reviews.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not now on Apple podcasts and I haven't noticed any new comments on Spotify from our roast recent episode, but we do have a couple of comments that I want to highlight from our YouTube channel.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, Dorothy App App, I hope I said that right.

[SPEAKER_06]: It says, when I read through the casting list, referring to the Mass Effect TV show, casting colleagues, when I read through the casting list, my intuition said it's post Mass Effect 3.

[SPEAKER_06]: If that is, if that is sorry, is Lyara.

[SPEAKER_06]: She should be younger than the given age, like 20 something looking if it would be a retelling of the trilogy.

[SPEAKER_06]: The rest alert type guy instantly put James Vega in my mind.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we can see him as a proven in seven.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it's just a rumor, so we shall see.

[SPEAKER_06]: At least we have something to talk about until in seven day.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I hope they'll give us a new story with new characters that bridges the trilogy and mass effect in drama and mass effect five.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, I, I would tend to agree with all of that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if it is Lyra, like, original trilogy, Lyra does look like, you know, a human, like, if a human woman would be, would have to be in her 20s.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I agree on that one.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the casting call specifically said woman in her 30s.

[SPEAKER_06]: So.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's so much speculation and so many things that we're not going to have answered for a really long time.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it could also just be the fact that so many people within the Mass Effect fandom have complained that a Lyara seems far too young in the first game that they're like, alright, people bitch about this all the time, let's age her up a little bit.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, maybe.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, maybe and especially with how mature she would have to act.

[SPEAKER_06]: They would want someone who does look a little older.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: We also have another comment from I hope I'm pronouncing this one, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Limalepeco that says, this thumbnail gave me psychic damage.

[SPEAKER_06]: The thumbnail for our Amazon casting call episode that's good.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was my direct work And that was the point.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was trying to give everyone psychic damage a little behind baseball YouTube only rewards videos that play into a grocery store tabloid [SPEAKER_06]: kind of algorithm.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so I'm hoping the long form content is at least good and in depth enough that it would justify sensationalized thumbnails.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: I'm all for it.

[SPEAKER_07]: You have great ideas when it comes to throwing together all these pictures and they are not clickbait because normally the title says something crazy, but then we give you the actual real good information.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we get into the crazy.

[SPEAKER_06]: So speaking of crazy, I've got this crazy voice line for Genesis.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's not that crazy.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I'll be very surprised if you get this one.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: Are you ready?

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even if you survived the battle today, the Reaper's won't stop.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Release me and we have a chance to end this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Once and for all.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, that was obviously Commander-Brow-Shab.

[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um...

Which game?

[SPEAKER_07]: The out-of-kind of ME3.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, listen to it one more time.

[SPEAKER_06]: Alright, here I'll play it one more time on my side as well, so people can hear it again.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even if you survived the battle today, the Reapers won't stop.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Release me and we have a chance to end this, once and for all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, any guesses?

[SPEAKER_07]: I want to say something to do with the quarry and missions in M.E.

[SPEAKER_07]: 3, I can't place it exactly though.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a tough one, it's a tough one, because it's so generic, but it is brochure, it is Mass Effect 3, however, it is during the Leviathan DLC.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, Leviathan, I have only been able to play you twice.

[SPEAKER_06]: What?

[SPEAKER_06]: That is my favorite DLC.

[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't get Leviathan until I got legendary.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, fair, it is my favorite DLC.

[SPEAKER_06]: It should have been part of the base game.

[SPEAKER_06]: With the massive lore implication, not just implications, with the massive lore statements from that DLC, [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, and now that I'm thinking about it, release me and we can fight the reapers together.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, that is definitely something that is said.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, under the water.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I got her.

[SPEAKER_06]: I finally got her.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't have any new patrons this week, but we do have our tier five patrons who have continuously graciously supported this show.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's butts, butts, butts.

[SPEAKER_06]: Unfortunately, a benefactor william superfly for 40.

[SPEAKER_02]: After time adrift among open stars, a long tide of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began.

[SPEAKER_01]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: If intended to try human, would try you out my bakeries.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we're back with the second half of the show.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, we are.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[SPEAKER_07]: So we kind of left it off to where now Jillian has been at this ascension program and we're going to talk about how Grayson's story plays out through the rest of the book because this is where it gets kind of interesting.

[SPEAKER_07]: We've built up his character so far what he's like and now it goes to where to all these story points joined together.

[SPEAKER_07]: Throughout this whole story, it feels to me like Grayson genuinely cares for Jillian, but also holds a sense of loyalty to servers.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it isn't until a conversation while Paul is still a little high that he's questioning if his loyalty is actually still to the elusive man or if it's to Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: which is interesting that he would mentally pit them against each other, that something must be happening where at least subconsciously Paul is realizing that he can either be a good server-s agent or a good father.

[SPEAKER_07]: right because Grayson tells the elusive man that Gillian has had a violent reaction to the new biotic enhancement drugs that Cerberus has secretly been giving her for the past few years.

[SPEAKER_07]: and it's his paranoia from the red sand that makes him see the elusive man's calculated words, his perfected empathetic responses, and his modulated tone of voice.

[SPEAKER_07]: The elusive man tells him to play the role of the freaked out parent, and to pull [SPEAKER_06]: which this part is so messed up.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's back up for a second.

[SPEAKER_06]: So Jillian has been part of this alliance youth biotic program, the Ascension Project.

[SPEAKER_06]: And while this is on a completely secure alliance facility, it's essentially a school and being her father, Paul isn't titled to these visits every now and then.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there, [SPEAKER_06]: He's not the only server-sagent involved in this, but they have been sneaking drugs onto the alliance, or the ascension project, knowing that there are the correct medical professionals in scientists there to rectify anything if they mess up.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's server-strugs, it's not like these are FDA approved.

[SPEAKER_07]: right.

[SPEAKER_07]: And the fact this violent reaction happens because they service changed the formula.

[SPEAKER_07]: They're usually always tweaking it a little bit to see if they can spark Gillian to have more biotic abilities.

[SPEAKER_07]: But even Grayson and his onsite contact say that this formula looks a lot different than what they had been administering.

[SPEAKER_06]: But still, like, even though Grayson feels an obligation to Jillian, he's still complicit in dosing a woman who he says is his daughter.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like he's dosing her over and over and over again.

[SPEAKER_06]: And for what reason, it's not for her own welfare.

[SPEAKER_07]: No.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's nearly to get biotic results.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there is the little bit of cognitive dissonance that you can play the card of, oh, it's not me actually giving her the drugs.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's Giro, this other doctor who's actually the one doing it.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm not causing her harm.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's just Giro is following his orders from the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: My orders only to bring it to him.

[SPEAKER_06]: that's a classic trolley problem right there, but I personally think that this cognitive dissonance is fueling his addiction.

[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think we can definitely analyze that with how why he uses the red sand.

[SPEAKER_06]: He might put some under a lot of stress, but sorry, go on.

[SPEAKER_07]: It does put them under a lot of stress and pulling your kid out of school, it can be tough and it can make him want to use for sure.

[SPEAKER_07]: But in the case where your child, quote, quote, is a gifted biotic that's so many people want to either help or harness, it makes it that much more difficult.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, she's just tossed around from place to place and it's not like like he knows that pulling her out of the like alliance oversight like and back to server as it's not like server is going to be friendlier And he probably feels weird because if if server is is going to be rougher with her how much bandwidth does he have to speak up to the elusive man to tell him to stop [SPEAKER_07]: At this point, none, like he's doing all this because he wants to be loyal to the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's like, all right, I will give her the drugs, you know, you gave me this child so that way I could raise it to get her into a program like this and so that way we can better all of humanity by increasing biotics to a new level.

[SPEAKER_07]: but doing it under the ascension program means that she'll get the proper training because the elusive man doesn't have a lot of human biotics that would be capable of training somebody like this.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_07]: So Grayson makes his way back to the Ascension program to let the school know that he, that after this violent reaction that Jillian, for some unknown reason to the school has had, she creates a singularity.

[SPEAKER_07]: She's shown very little biotic, she's shown a massive amount of biotic potential, but had yet to actually produce anything biotically until this new drug that the serverous agents had given her.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so Grayson acts like the freaked out parent and it goes back onto the station and it meets [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes, that Kaley and Hendell, the main security officer and a former bot student.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's the brain that Kaden went to.

[SPEAKER_07]: So Hendell and Kaden might have been hanging on at some point because it was a very short, short run program.

[SPEAKER_07]: And they say that they want to join Grayson to help get Jilly into safe.

[SPEAKER_07]: Now, Jillian needs to be extracted because the handle and Kaylee found out about Jero being a server's agent.

[SPEAKER_07]: So now, Grayson's freaking out, going, oh no, we need to get Jillian out of here.

[SPEAKER_07]: She's being hunted by serverists.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so these two people who genuinely also care about Jillian say, we want to help.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I, you know, I think that they really called Grayson's bluff here, like Kaylee throughout this book, as much as I don't like it, is kind of like painted as this like.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, like, like this airhead who doesn't really see what's going on.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, but Hendell knows.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hendell knows that something's up with Grayson and has reasonable suspicion even before learning that Giro was a mole, a plant, rather, uh, and now [SPEAKER_06]: You know, Grayson, all of a sudden, is wanting to pull his daughter out, and I think Kindle knows what's going on, is like, yeah, I want to keep my eyes on you, but Kaylee just genuinely cares about Gillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: And by the way, all of this has come up like even more complicated, because Kaylee was sleeping with Giro.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's that aspect to it too.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's quite interesting, the little triangle that's going on here, but handled definitely thinks that he 99% suspects that Grayson is on red sand.

[SPEAKER_07]: Kaylee is wearing the rose colored glasses and doesn't want to see it.

[SPEAKER_07]: That's just a stressed out parent.

[SPEAKER_07]: You have no idea what stress he's under.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's okay.

[SPEAKER_07]: Let me go sleep with another associate who's 20 years my junior, oh, yeah, it's interesting for sure on that aspect.

[SPEAKER_07]: But they do, and they want to, they all care about Jillian, and they all want to get her off of this space station.

[SPEAKER_07]: Grayson, because he wants to give her back to the elusive man, Kaylee, because she cares.

[SPEAKER_07]: And then Kendall just to make sure that Jillian actually gets the biotic training that she needs.

[SPEAKER_07]: and with these other people around him, he has to fully play the role of the distraught parent and not that of the server's operative extracting a high value target.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which might not be too hard for him because grace and only thinks he's playing the parent.

[SPEAKER_06]: When in reality at this point, he's playing a server's agent.

[SPEAKER_06]: like he we we were talking about this yesterday when we were formulating the notes for this episode the whole trope of like oh they fell for the mark.

[SPEAKER_06]: right, but Grayson, it's not, it's not like a romantic relationship.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a parental relationship.

[SPEAKER_06]: So something that was supposed to just be this just strictly business.

[SPEAKER_06]: He actually ends up like falling into a paternal figure responsibility role for Gillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so [SPEAKER_06]: playing the role of the distraught parent.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think is not that much of a stretch because he's more of a distraught parent than he is a server's agent at this point.

[SPEAKER_07]: I fully agree and we really start to see that when there are little moments between Grayson and Jillian that melt my mama heart and I can tell [SPEAKER_07]: for falling for his daughter, like showing an actual parental fatherly love for somebody that I assume in their childhood growing up was very distant and now getting some of these interactions that he was expecting.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, so where do they end up going?

[SPEAKER_07]: So Grayson thinks that Omega is the best place to hide and in my opinion that is a pretty good place to dodge the council but not necessarily [SPEAKER_06]: And more books you'll always grace in.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: not very good.

[SPEAKER_07]: There are a few major plot points and a lot of characters that we could get into, but you really got to go read this book for yourself because there's some drama, there is the intrigue and there's a really good fight scene in it too.

[SPEAKER_07]: So, but it ends with [SPEAKER_06]: But before then, we do learn that Grayson's old partner, Pell, the one who helped him carry out his first kill, Pell betrays Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you would think that Grayson might have expected this or that it would at least have, be leaving Grayson with even more trust issues than he already had.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it seems like he never really trusted Pell to begin with.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but Pell was supposed to be his omega contact because Pell was supposedly still a part of service.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so that's why he was going to Pell in order to be like, okay, let's get her off of Omega and out to wherever the elusive man says to go to next.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, but then there was the Chris Cross.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we should also mention that Kaylee and Hindel and Jillian, they all get to the fleet.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and specifically the ship, the idea separately from Grayson.

[SPEAKER_06]: Grayson is left behind on Omega, and he thinks that Gillian has been taken, like, by the Koreans.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he begs the elusive man to let him lead this arty team to rescue his daughter.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I say rescue loosely because, like, while where's she ultimately going, you even have to get her.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's one other character that we can talk about for just a minute, and that's Golo.

[SPEAKER_07]: Because Golo, he's the corey in turncoat that before all of this happened was exiled from the fleet.

[SPEAKER_07]: He helps Grayson and the team of service troops to infiltrate the fleet.

[SPEAKER_07]: So if you were wondering how Cerberus even knows the fleets current location, or is able to carry out the attack on such a short notice, you can blame golo.

[SPEAKER_07]: And a little bit of hell.

[SPEAKER_07]: He straight up brutally tortured a captured quarry in from the identity to get his coordinates and his passphrase.

[SPEAKER_07]: and which side note, though my body may travel, my soul is with the fleet.

[SPEAKER_07]: He's also really good passphrase.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my God, these passphrases are so my favorite pros in the entire series, like even extended media, Mass Effect, I love it.

[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, so this is something that in terms of law implications is massive because there has never been another species militarized branch or military paramilitary organization that has been able to infiltrate the fleet before.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they've never made it onto it, onto the flotilla, onto, well, probably onto an individual ship that's not been part of the fleet at that time, but never with all the ships together.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we also know that like, the fleet is incredibly insular and protective about who's allowed on board, because their resources are quite slim.

[SPEAKER_06]: And any outsider might bring with them the chance of bringing in unknown variables.

[SPEAKER_06]: all of which could gravely endanger the Korean population, all of whom have a job, and a very important job at that.

[SPEAKER_07]: All right, but back to Grayson.

[SPEAKER_07]: He reaches out to the only person that he thinks can save Julian.

[SPEAKER_07]: and he has a rare face-to-face meeting with the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: He convinces Timmy Boy to do an extraction from the fleet, which in itself is a huge ask, but he also wants to be part of that A-team that you mentioned.

[SPEAKER_07]: of a Tim, like, I don't know why, but he eventually agrees, the only thing that I can think of is that that shows how much he wants Gillian back under service control if he's willing to risk resources, exposure, and all of this just to save one 12 year old girl.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it also for the elusive man if I'm the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm thinking this could be a good test case to see how well defended the fleet is.

[SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, he doesn't care for the Koreans welfare, and I think that he could be using it as an opportunity to test boundaries.

[SPEAKER_06]: Much like we see those Russian fighter jets, just regularly violating a lask in the airspace or NATO airspace, and it's almost like they're gauging response times to test boundaries.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this, I think that that could be an ulterior motive for agreeing because the elucid man is nothing if not pragmatic and he's not sentimental.

[SPEAKER_06]: So of course, Julian is a high value target to him.

[SPEAKER_06]: At the same time, I think he also realizes that he can kill two birds with one stone by sending an extraction team to exfiltrate her.

[SPEAKER_07]: I like that a lot because we all know that the elusive man plays 340 chess and is always thinking 3 layers deep and doing this for multiple reasons makes more sense to me.

[SPEAKER_07]: Now, eventually Grayson does get on to the fleet and we see these are the moments where he really has to confront his conflicting loyalties of either to the elusive man or to Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and it's kind of like you can feel him sweating bullets during these moments and during these moments he's being walked around the ship because again, oh, I'm sorry, do my am I skipping ahead?

[SPEAKER_07]: So, so Grayson is never like fully being walked around the ship, the Jillian, Kaylee and Handel are the ones who get to explore the identity.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, that this sequence of events is happening simultaneously.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so, we get a lot of depictions of how the Koreans are living in squall or even above or their own vessels.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think Yukon Cornelius here must have access to our notes because he brought it up like a minute before we did.

[SPEAKER_06]: But basically, we see that they are living in these super close quarters.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're essentially living in office cubicles.

[SPEAKER_06]: like whole families are, and the walls are decorated with photos and memorabilia and these things that hold sentimental value to them, but it looks like a floating refugee camp.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I also really liked the way that there's no bartering system.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's no money in the flotilla.

[SPEAKER_07]: If you have an access of something, you put it in a locker in the central area.

[SPEAKER_07]: And then if I'm looking for something that I need, I go to the lockers and see if anybody has left one there.

[SPEAKER_07]: Because I no longer need this.

[SPEAKER_07]: I leave it here.

[SPEAKER_07]: I need this to take with me back to my family.

[SPEAKER_07]: It's not, it's not a value system.

[SPEAKER_07]: It is purely, I only take what I need.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is, it is really interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's completely dependent on the honor system.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it's also like, the honor system has this sort of damages hanging above its head because everyone really knows like, okay, if you take more than what you need, you could also be [SPEAKER_07]: And the, I believe it was the, the Korean that is showing them around is laughing at handle asking these questions of, well, what if, what if I take too much and he goes, why would you take too much?

[SPEAKER_07]: it's, you know, being greedy, being covetous, being a hoarder, being somebody who's gathering all this things just isn't in the quarry in mindset at all.

[SPEAKER_07]: You know, it also makes a joke of where would you put it?

[SPEAKER_07]: Where would you hoard things?

[SPEAKER_06]: They're living in cubicles.

[SPEAKER_06]: You really, there's no space like even if you look at, you can't store it anywhere.

[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I love these scenes because it's one of the very few instances we get an inside glimpse.

[SPEAKER_06]: as to what life is like on the fleet.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't have like this Korean, like Talley and Mass Effect one off of the fleet on her on her pilgrimage telling us what life is like on the fleet.

[SPEAKER_06]: Even in Mass Effect too, during her loyalty mission, we don't really get to see what mundane life is like for many on the fleet.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so it's a really great way to get more to get to know more about the Koreans and even Kaylee mentions that she's like, I pre-conceived notions about who they are, scavenging pack rats, outlaws of the Citadel, and it completely changed her mind.

[SPEAKER_06]: And do you think that any of this can change Grayson's mind because do you think that this entire encounter because he's seeing a lot of the same things even though he's there for very different reasons do you think that this leaves him with some empathy for other races?

[SPEAKER_07]: I believe that if he had been given the opportunity to be with them and actually see this because when Grayson gets on to the agenda, it really is a 30 minute time 30 minute window that he's been given to board on to the agenda with his stolen shuttle.

[SPEAKER_07]: And then he has to get to his personal shuttle that Kaylee Gillian and Handel had originally taken to get the idea.

[SPEAKER_06]: The first one, the Sinead, which is a Korean shuttle, that one is rigged to explode.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I think if Grayson had actually been afforded the opportunity if he had been there when Gillian was walking around seeing everything that she got to see, it might have changed his mind and his viewpoint on things.

[SPEAKER_07]: But unfortunately, he's only on the identity of for a half an hour.

[SPEAKER_07]: So he didn't get to see it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then Grayson and Gillian actually like reconnect back at the shuttle that he was going [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, because that is his original shuttle, and he was prepared to steal it back.

[SPEAKER_07]: And Jillian is there because she's fleeing back to the shuttle because it feels safe and Grayson had straight there because he thinks that that is where she will still be even all these weeks later.

[SPEAKER_07]: Jillian and crew had been on, have been talking and interacting with the Koreans for about three weeks at this point.

[SPEAKER_07]: So it did take the elusive man and everybody a little bit of time to coordinate leaving Omega and getting to the migrant fleet.

[SPEAKER_06]: That part escapes me.

[SPEAKER_06]: I guess it's been quite a while since I've, you know, read or listen to the book.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't realize that it was a few weeks removed.

[SPEAKER_07]: mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I didn't really, I didn't remember that part either, but now with this expanded timeline, it makes, it makes things a little bit more, make more sense.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's also that that also means that that's an extraordinary measure of hospitality from the Koreans to host them for three weeks.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, if there was actually a big part of it about it too about ordering in human food from the other ships and it causing a stir, you know, there was a little bit of scuttlebuck going around like who are the new humans that are on the floatela, everybody was talking about it, so that was that was a fun and interesting part to go to read through also.

[SPEAKER_06]: And if I remember right during this sequence of time, this is one of the few times in ascension where Jillian is talking the most.

[SPEAKER_06]: Most of the time she's silent, she's not talking.

[SPEAKER_07]: She will talk in very flat modulated tones and be very effective into the point.

[SPEAKER_07]: She does not engage, is an asking a lot of questions and obeys orders very quickly and very easily.

[SPEAKER_07]: Until she is with the Koreans and I really want to get into all of that about Jillian.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I think we're going to have to do a whole separate series on just Jillian Grace.

[SPEAKER_06]: we definitely will.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, okay, so Grayson and Jillian are now in the same shuttle.

[SPEAKER_06]: Grayson's there because of the surprise attack.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: So what's going on now is he like he has now run into the target so to speak.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is he distracting her?

[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, wants to, but Jillian stands her ground, and she tells Daddy I won't leave without my friends, and it's the first time that she's ever talked back to him like that, and he doesn't know what to do, but Jillian won't leave, especially without Kaylee and Hendoll.

[SPEAKER_07]: So what is Grayson, do you?

[SPEAKER_07]: Walt, what any loving parent would do when their queen won't listen?

[SPEAKER_07]: He had served with a stun gun.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, what a dad.

[SPEAKER_06]: I am imagining because you said that he only has 30 minutes before that timer goes off, right, and blows up the Sinead shuttle, and scuttles the entire dinner, he's like, we don't have time to debate this, and you know, all right, you know what, boom, hits over the stunner, but what's interesting to me about this whole thing, of course, apparently he's, he probably justifies like hitting over the stunner like as in, I'm saving her life right now.

[SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't seem to have a problem with killing all of these Koreans that he definitely saw living in relative squalor.

[SPEAKER_07]: Again, that's the cognitive dissonance.

[SPEAKER_07]: He never leaves the shuttle.

[SPEAKER_07]: He goes directly from the seniored onto his shuttle and doesn't kill anybody.

[SPEAKER_07]: It is all the, it is gollow and the other service agents that he brought with them on this little mini squad in order to take them all out.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he doesn't get three weeks to spend there.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I still feel like once he's docked and he goes from shuttle to shuttle, he sees enough, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like he knows what he's doing.

[SPEAKER_06]: He knows that he's going to kill all of these Koreans.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and so I don't, for me, it's like, [SPEAKER_06]: It reminds me of one of those people who when you talk about real life issues, real world events, they're like, well, I don't really care as long as I can protect me and my own.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's exactly what that feels like having empathy for other people is very, very important and not just your own species.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not on purpose, unless actually there are people that cannot feel empathy and that we have a word for those.

[SPEAKER_06]: I encourage everyone to look that up.

[SPEAKER_06]: But Kaylee makes a valiant return to be the beacon of light that she is, right?

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh yes, absolutely, because Kaylee is out there searching for Jillian while this attack is going on because they weren't hanging out with each other in this moment when the attack started.

[SPEAKER_07]: But she finds Jillian passed out from the stunner on her father's shuttle and Grayson is there and she actually gets through to him.

[SPEAKER_07]: She appeals to grace and to realize that his loyalty to service is completely misplaced, and that they're not going to turn her into the savior of humanity as him has been telling grace and but rather to be used specifically as a weapon against the elusive man's enemies.

[SPEAKER_07]: Not a savior, a weapon.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, well that's kind of like, [SPEAKER_06]: It's amazing to see the manipulation that the elucid man is so great at using against all of his employees to see someone be able to break through that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Kaylee is kind of depicted as this angel on his shoulder and in many scenes isn't she like don't you think?

[SPEAKER_06]: Do you think Grayson was starting to fall for Kaylee?

[SPEAKER_06]: because basically every other male character that she interacts with besides handle ends up falling for Kaley Sanders.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, she is absolutely marketed as like the girl, the alliance scientists next door.

[SPEAKER_07]: She's the girl next door, but everybody follows for, but she's also kind of like the girl next door's older sister who has a bit of a reputation, but everybody's [SPEAKER_06]: She is the Alliance Scientist next door.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Who's been around the block more than once?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess so.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is after her like, you know, courting with Anderson though, in the first book, Mass Effect Revelation.

[SPEAKER_07]: and the sleeping with Jero off and on for the last two years.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: But but do you don't you feel like Grayson is starting to kind of fall for her?

[SPEAKER_07]: a little bit.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if it's a fall for her or if it's just I'm starting to see that other people care for Jillian and maybe I like you you you never know how much you love someone until you they you see the love they can give your child and I think that that might be what this is playing into but I guess it's more I didn't catch it as in like a love thing I [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so he's starting to turn on the elusive man not like that not turning on the elusive man, but but turning on him [SPEAKER_07]: against, turning against, turning away from.

[SPEAKER_06]: Ah, so, okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, do you think that his addiction, Grayson's addiction allowed him to continue, you know, like holding this styrofoam underwater about his, his qualms of working with Cerberus, so to speak, like, or, or, [SPEAKER_06]: Did his addiction drain his judgment capacity or willpower to resist the elusive man to resist service?

[SPEAKER_06]: Or was it the other way around?

[SPEAKER_06]: Did he turn to red sand to numb himself to what he was carrying out for the elusive man?

[SPEAKER_07]: I personally think it's the second one.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think that he uses it as the numbing agent, the thing to escape everything that he's done and to forget the feelings and to feel the euphoria, because it was his paranoia caused by the red sand that made him see more clearly what the elusive man was doing to him.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can see clearly now the sand is here.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Don't he drugs are bad, okay?

[SPEAKER_06]: Don't do drugs kids.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that kind of takes us to almost the end of Mass Effect ascension, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: That he's he's starting to flip.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's no longer this loyal dog, loyal lap dog for the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, there are some events that happen in the aftermath of this big attack raid on the flotella, but we leave Grayson escaping the custody of Kaylee.

[SPEAKER_07]: Now, she wakes up on the volusworld of Dalyon, and Grayson has fled the area.

[SPEAKER_07]: He makes a phone call to the elusive man, a video call.

[SPEAKER_07]: uh, not asking for help, or for extraction, or even to beg for forgiveness, here's sober, no bloodshot eyes, no glowy sheen, and a confident look on his face.

[SPEAKER_07]: And he has a simple statement of facts for the elusive man.

[SPEAKER_07]: He is leaving Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_07]: Jillian is beyond their reach, and stupidly, in my opinion, telling the elusive man that she is on a quarry in deep space expedition.

[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think he should have given that information up.

[SPEAKER_07]: But also that if anything happens to Kaylee Sanders, he will go to the alliance with all that he knows about Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_07]: the elusive man, reluctantly agrees to not pursue either Kaylee or Gillian.

[SPEAKER_07]: Because, because, quote, he knows that losing Gillian will set their biotic research back a decade, but he cannot risk exposure.

[SPEAKER_07]: Service has many other projects to protect.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh man, so now we have this situation where Grayson is giving the elusive man an ultimatum.

[SPEAKER_06]: Talk about some brass gohones that this guy has because he knows that he is taking his life into his own hands.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like he knows that he is going to probably be on the run for life after this.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_07]: And the elicimant tries to argue, be like, is you, do you really think that life on the run is going to be good for you and for Jillian?

[SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, you can't touch her.

[SPEAKER_07]: And you can't touch me.

[SPEAKER_07]: I know too much.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it's true.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's like you're challenging the teacher that's grading your paper.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not a good idea.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, don't get me wrong, I admire the hutspa, but it is not a good idea to tell the elusive man you can't touch me unless your name is Commander Shepard.

[SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[SPEAKER_07]: Um, yeah, I don't think that this is going to end well for Grayson that is a huge threat to servers and to the elusive man directly.

[SPEAKER_07]: So I don't think this is going to end well, but this is the end of the book.

[SPEAKER_07]: This is the last line of the book.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, so we see grace and go from this compromised agent who's kind of rationalizing his own service to Cerberus and yet his paternal instincts get in the way.

[SPEAKER_06]: This paternal instincts are the ones that are feeling not just his healing from addiction, I think, but this gradual rejection of Cerberus's methods.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think in this book we see him start to resist out of the love he has for Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that he he starts as this kind of messy tragic character even.

[SPEAKER_06]: But he undergoes this transformation from reluctant participant and evil.

[SPEAKER_06]: to a man who sacrifices absolutely everything to oppose it, and in so doing he is redeeming his own actions that he carried out for service in the past.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which in my opinion, like just this story, even if he didn't come back and retribution, just this story, maybe this hot take, [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh, that's a take, um, I think at this point, yes, he has a really good redemption arc.

[SPEAKER_07]: He has accomplished what he wanted to do in getting Jillian free and away.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's also probably probably some of my old bias coming back that it just got so annoying to hear Miranda go I'm perfect!

[SPEAKER_05]: Why don't you feel bad for me?

[SPEAKER_05]: I have these perfect jeans!

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna do a Levi's commercial.

[SPEAKER_07]: Life is really really hard when you have to be perfect all the time like me, okay?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's like, well, okay, well, let's talk about like what character flaws you have.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I don't have any because I'm perfect.

[SPEAKER_07]: No.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I know.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you kind of Cornelius here as interesting insight on Miranda that he brings up.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says that she never heard hated Cerberus.

[SPEAKER_06]: She just hated her dad.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would amend that because I think that eventually in Mass Effect 3 she does hate Cerberus, but it's because of what her dad brought like opened her eyes to like [SPEAKER_06]: her dad opened her eyes to how horrible the elusive man was as to shepherd shepherd also opened Miranda's eyes.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I just think that Paul Grayson's arc here in ascension is better in terms of redemption than Miranda's because Miranda, um, [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we'll get into a little bit more in retribution, but Miranda had a much different experience telling Timmy Boy to go take a hike and had [SPEAKER_06]: It was presumably safer for her, and how she was able to manipulate things.

[SPEAKER_06]: She also had a much kosher position and presumably more resources at her disposal than Grayson did, where it kind of feels like in a book once Grayson severes that connection, that's it, like he has nothing, like absolutely zilch, and he is on the run, and he's got to go find a job.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he also sacrificed everything for his daughter who he's never going to see again.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, oh, that part makes me sad.

[SPEAKER_07]: There's, yeah, he's never, well, he possibly.

[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I guess we know the outcomes of what happens in the next book, but our listeners may not know the whole story on that one, so it'll be interesting to cover Grayson's storyline when we record again.

[SPEAKER_07]: But next week is going to be Patreon chats, so you're going to have to wait a few more weeks to hear the conclusion of Grayson's story.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes, and I was speaking, by the way, from his own perspective, he knows that this Korean deep space exploration mission is going to take a long time and they might not come back.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he knows very well that this could be it.

[SPEAKER_06]: This could be goodbye for Jillian.

[SPEAKER_06]: But he wants to say for anyway.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, we will follow up with the rest of Grayson's story like you said after the patron chat, but until next time, specters, you know, be a good parent if you are a parent, if you're not a parent, [SPEAKER_06]: help some parents that, you know, please ask, ask if you can do laundry or the dishes for them, they will love you forever.

[SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, that's all we got, Specters, and I can't wait to talk with some of our patrons next week.

[SPEAKER_06]: Until next time, we should go.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War text.

[SPEAKER_06]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky.

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[SPEAKER_07]: Join us next week for more lore.

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