Hearts of Oak: And hello, Hearts of Oak.

Thanks so much for joining us once again.

Hearts of Oak: And it's wonderful to go.

We've had so many AFD politicians, Hearts of Oak: a strong focus on the good things happening in Germany.

Hearts of Oak: And I'm delighted to be joined by Kay Gottschalk, who is a member of the Bundestag.

Hearts of Oak: Kay, thank you so much for your time today.

Kay Gottschalk: Thank you for inviting me and having you here.

Yeah.

Hearts of Oak: That's great.

Lots to discuss.

And obviously, that's your handle on X.

Hearts of Oak: People can follow you.

And you're a co-founder of AFD.

Hearts of Oak: You've been deputy federal spokesman.

That's what you are at the moment.

Hearts of Oak: And you've been a member of the Bundestag since 2017.

Hearts of Oak: So in the 2017 election, 2021, and then the latest one in 2025.

Hearts of Oak: So you've been through three of those.

Hearts of Oak: Now, I want to learn what has been happening in Germany, the opposition, Hearts of Oak: the AFD have faced your increasing success in the polls, what you stand for, and all of that.

Hearts of Oak: But first, I want to ask about you, your background, I understand, Hearts of Oak: and we haven't spoken before, but looking into is in insurance, Hearts of Oak: that you studied economics and law.

Hearts of Oak: What made you go from that to actually getting involved in the AFD and actually Hearts of Oak: standing for parliament?

Kay Gottschalk: Yeah, if you would have asked me that 13 years ago, I would say, oh, are you crazy?

Kay Gottschalk: I would never be a politician or something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: No, it happened in December, January 2015.

Kay Gottschalk: In 2013, when I get a phone call, maybe I could help to found a new party.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think everybody of us, especially also in the financial branch, Kay Gottschalk: was very unhappy with the situation.

Kay Gottschalk: We had the euro crisis.

We had already a crisis with immigrants, Kay Gottschalk: illegals here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: And then Luca asked me, maybe I could help to found.

And I said, OK, it's a good idea.

Kay Gottschalk: I will do.

and when I helped and I leaded the first.

Kay Gottschalk: Caucus of the party in Hamburg they said oh Kay Gottschalk: you must become member of the board and I said no I have Kay Gottschalk: a job so really I'm so engaged in my job I won't do Kay Gottschalk: that and finally I became again Kay Gottschalk: deputy I became deputy in Hamburg Kay Gottschalk: yeah then I was second candidate for the first election Kay Gottschalk: in 2013 in Hamburg yeah so Kay Gottschalk: the story started as something like a Kay Gottschalk: miracle for me still a miracle because um Kay Gottschalk: no it was never planned and then i decided in Kay Gottschalk: 2017 to do the important step to maybe to join the parliament i um and finally Kay Gottschalk: it worked so that's the story and the reason was i was really not happy anymore Kay Gottschalk: with any party here in germany that means FTP, CDU, SPD.

Kay Gottschalk: Nobody really, I think, is facing the aims and the problems of the normal walks Kay Gottschalk: of life, the people working each day, the people with a little company here Kay Gottschalk: in Germany, the craftsmen here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: And yeah, it was awful.

And always they broke treaties.

Kay Gottschalk: And like the European treaty, when they said no country will finally finance Kay Gottschalk: another one, And I think also reasons why Great Britain then made the Brexit.

Kay Gottschalk: And it was, for me, a good and logical step by Great Britain.

And that happened.

Kay Gottschalk: That worked.

And made me becoming a politician.

Yeah, it's a miracle, really.

Hearts of Oak: Tell me about what that was like in 2017.

I think you got maybe 12% of the vote, Hearts of Oak: 94 members for the first time.

What was that like?

Hearts of Oak: I guess the excitement of seeing something you'd worked out for a couple of years succeed.

Hearts of Oak: But then what did the media actually, what was the media response to that success as well?

Kay Gottschalk: Yeah, I mean, first of all, since we have started with our story, Kay Gottschalk: our increase, our rising party, Kay Gottschalk: we were something like one single thematic party, like they are against Europe and against the rule.

Kay Gottschalk: Then they said, oh, we are a populistic party.

And then they started to say, Kay Gottschalk: oh, they are Nazis.

They are on the right side, far right side and all that stuff.

Kay Gottschalk: So the media always really tried and is trying to blame us, to put us down, something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: And in 2017, it changed a little bit.

They said, oh, but it's just a single Kay Gottschalk: period.

And then they will go and we will get rid of the party.

Kay Gottschalk: But also that didn't happen at all.

Kay Gottschalk: But what was really for us very tough to learn.

So the first period was also Kay Gottschalk: for us very hard to learn.

Kay Gottschalk: We lost a lot of members leaving our party.

Kay Gottschalk: So it was a learning period.

And then everybody was shrinked.

Kay Gottschalk: And we had problems during the COVID period from 21.

Kay Gottschalk: And our party and my party suffered a lot, a lot of more than the other parties.

Kay Gottschalk: We couldn't make meetings, something like that, or a caucus.

Kay Gottschalk: Because even meetings from the board must be done by a video conference and Kay Gottschalk: all that.

So it was a hard time for us.

Kay Gottschalk: And finally, but COVID then was a wonder.

Kay Gottschalk: And the second start, like the migration crisis in 2015, because people recognize Kay Gottschalk: that we are defending our constitution.

We are defending freedom.

Kay Gottschalk: We are defending the rights of the people on the streets.

and I guess it was Kay Gottschalk: something like a difficult situation but really it opened a big door and since Kay Gottschalk: that time I think we are accepted by a lot of walks of life here in Germany.

Hearts of Oak: Let me know with Hoy, whenever Angela Merkel said come, come and opened up the Hearts of Oak: doors of Germany and Europe, Hearts of Oak: was that the kind of the initial spark that really helped AFD, Hearts of Oak: because people were, I guess, concerned of mass immigration, Hearts of Oak: and yet the politicians didn't care.

Hearts of Oak: Was that the issue that gave AFD your success?

Kay Gottschalk: I think so.

It was something after, in 2015, we had a big caucus here in Essen, Kay Gottschalk: in NRB, and Luka left the party.

Kay Gottschalk: And a lot of, I think, a quarter of our members left the party.

Kay Gottschalk: And a lot of people said, OK, the party will now be something like killed by that.

Kay Gottschalk: So we just tried to walk on one leg.

And I think the second leg we got then Kay Gottschalk: was this crisis, because everybody feared and saw that it won't work anymore.

Kay Gottschalk: In Germany, we had already a lot of problems.

We have a problem with our pensioners.

Kay Gottschalk: We have a problem with finance.

We have a problem with the euro.

Kay Gottschalk: We have problems with our economy, all that.

Kay Gottschalk: And now on that, we became millions of migrants, especially from Syria, Kay Gottschalk: from an area that is not touching our culture, very far away from our culture.

Kay Gottschalk: You can't compare it with people coming from Poland, from Italy, Kay Gottschalk: from Russia, or anywhere.

Kay Gottschalk: So, yeah, it was something like a big afterburner to bring us again on track, really.

Kay Gottschalk: But we had a little bit problems in the forecast by 4.5, 5%.

Kay Gottschalk: And everybody said, okay, now when Luka is leaving and a quarter of the members Kay Gottschalk: will leave, the party is dead, definitely.

Kay Gottschalk: And then it was something like a rebirth and pushed us up again.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think since that, we are on track, really.

Hearts of Oak: It's been exciting.

You're doing even better in the polls at the moment.

Hearts of Oak: But if I can go back to the election earlier this year, back in, was it May or June?

Hearts of Oak: I was looking at some headlines back in March.

There was a headline in March, Hearts of Oak: and it was German Parliament sits for a first time with AFD, Hearts of Oak: his second biggest party.

Hearts of Oak: And of course, the headline, as we would expect, was far right party doubles its number of seats.

Hearts of Oak: Well, Chancellor and Witt in Frederick Mertz hopes to form government before Easter.

Hearts of Oak: Told by the AFD doubling up to 150 with 21% share of the vote.

Hearts of Oak: It seems as though everything that the government and the media and the system Hearts of Oak: have tried to do to stop you has just helped you.

Hearts of Oak: And tell me about that.

Because 21 hitting, I think that was the highest ever vote share.

Hearts of Oak: What was that like?

Because the opinion polls were pointing in the right direction.

Hearts of Oak: Um but previously i think in Hearts of Oak: 2021 they were polling you're polling much higher Hearts of Oak: and then came out at 10 which was disappointing this year the it seemed to the Hearts of Oak: votes you got were what you're projected to get so what what was that like with Hearts of Oak: realizing on the election night that actually you'd become second place in the parliament yeah

Kay Gottschalk: First of all, it was unbelievable for us because we feared also what you described Kay Gottschalk: very well, that maybe media and the forecast are wrong to push us a little bit up and then said, okay, Kay Gottschalk: the fall will be much harder than for us.

Kay Gottschalk: But when in the night, we saw the result was always growing up.

Kay Gottschalk: We started, I guess, around about by 1908 or something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: And then we passed the 20% hurdle and then we are growing and growing up.

Kay Gottschalk: It was for us unbelievable.

So we had a big party and then we said, oh, my dear.

Kay Gottschalk: Round about 80 new members of parliament, newcomers in this special situation here in the parliament, Kay Gottschalk: will become a hard job for us to bring them as quick as possible in a position Kay Gottschalk: and make them able to work in these parliamentary routines.

Kay Gottschalk: And it was very hard for us to teach them the schemes we have here.

Kay Gottschalk: It's something like a weekly routine we then have.

But finally, Kay Gottschalk: we said the old members like me must do that.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think it put us as strong and stronger together.

Kay Gottschalk: So now, right after four months, I would say it's a great team we formed.

Kay Gottschalk: But what happened then was also a surprise because before the elections and Kay Gottschalk: in a lot of things, I was a first man here in North and Westphalia for our party.

Kay Gottschalk: And I had a lot of discussion with Lindner, with Spahn, with Lauterbach, and in some discussion.

Kay Gottschalk: They said, OK, now in this third period, you must be treated like a normal party.

Kay Gottschalk: Spahn said that.

And then finally, FISA made the special public survey of the Kay Gottschalk: Secret Service here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: And then everything exploded right there.

And now we are in the same situation Kay Gottschalk: like the last period.

So we get no vice president, no chairman position in the committees.

Kay Gottschalk: And this is unbelievable.

So the second strongest party can't control the Secret Service.

Kay Gottschalk: We are not in a special committee for the euro and for currency affairs.

Kay Gottschalk: And still, we don't have any possibility to influence the parliament because Kay Gottschalk: we have no vice president.

Kay Gottschalk: And even the left party has a vice president.

So something changed.

Kay Gottschalk: But a lot of things are still the same like in the last period.

Kay Gottschalk: But, of course, in that night we celebrated very much.

I had a headache in the next morning.

Kay Gottschalk: And I need much aspirin for a better condition.

Kay Gottschalk: But I think it's a good time for us.

And as you describe it, Kay Gottschalk: media is still trying to push us down.

Kay Gottschalk: And it helped us because now the people really are fed up of this propaganda Kay Gottschalk: like a Nazi party or just just populistic.

Kay Gottschalk: No, the people recognize we are right.

We are right with nuclear power stations.

Kay Gottschalk: Zero emission goals are stupid.

Kay Gottschalk: And the people are saying we are right concerning inflation.

Kay Gottschalk: So we must go on.

we must, Kay Gottschalk: com, going our way.

And I think my forecast is in three and a half years lately, Kay Gottschalk: we will govern this country.

Hearts of Oak: Well, we'll get on to where you are in the opinion polls.

And I saw, Hearts of Oak: we were discussing, I just saw the latest polling.

Hearts of Oak: But can I, what's the position with, you mentioned you're being under surveillance Hearts of Oak: since 2022, because you're such an extreme organization.

Hearts of Oak: And what has that been like?

Because I assume you've been through the courts.

Hearts of Oak: You've tried to get that removed.

Hearts of Oak: You've tried to find out actually how the government are monitoring and spying on you.

Hearts of Oak: How have you managed to push back on that?

And where is the party currently Hearts of Oak: in terms of being monitored and surveilled?

Kay Gottschalk: Very good question, my dear.

I said Kay Gottschalk: to myself Two and a half Kay Gottschalk: years ago The key for a solution Kay Gottschalk: To this problem you described Isn't only in Kay Gottschalk: Germany And I started then Like Kay Gottschalk: a lot of my friends in the party To come in contact Kay Gottschalk: And in touch with a lot of Republicans In the Kay Gottschalk: United States And that worked very well First Kay Gottschalk: time I think we've been On the Kay Gottschalk: gala In the Young Republicans Kay Gottschalk: Club in New York in 2023 yes Kay Gottschalk: and so we come in contact with a lot of people and a lot of people now are working Kay Gottschalk: of our friends close friends I would say now in the White House and that helped Kay Gottschalk: us first of all to push and to bring pressure especially to city who see us Kay Gottschalk: you here in Germany because.

Kay Gottschalk: I explain a lot of very conservative people, conservative people also in Great Britain and America.

Kay Gottschalk: The CDU isn't a conservative party anymore.

So I say they are like step sons, Kay Gottschalk: but we are your real sons.

If you look at our program, what we are, Kay Gottschalk: what we want, what we are working for here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: And that worked, of course, because J.D.

Vance, it wasn't something incident Kay Gottschalk: or something like that.

When he said in Munich, we haven't got a free democracy, Kay Gottschalk: not a free speech in Germany anymore.

Kay Gottschalk: Especially Rubio said the same.

Kay Gottschalk: Now, I think yesterday also something was published by the White House that Kay Gottschalk: they have sorrow and looking with disgust to Germany what is going on here with Kay Gottschalk: opposition parties and the free speech.

Kay Gottschalk: That's the first step and the first key.

So we need help from our conservative Kay Gottschalk: brothers and friends abroad.

Kay Gottschalk: Also, I regret sometimes very much that the Tories in Great Britain, Kay Gottschalk: when I met them first in 1922 in London.

Kay Gottschalk: And then we moved on to Ireland, are still very close to the city.

Kay Gottschalk: But I think we can change also that.

Kay Gottschalk: But that's the first thing.

And the second thing is we must go through the institutions.

Kay Gottschalk: We must be defended by good, good lawyers here.

Kay Gottschalk: And we are seeking to convince the courts and also the public that our secret Kay Gottschalk: service, I mean, is controlled by that.

Kay Gottschalk: It's compatible with the U.S.

Department of Interior Affairs.

Kay Gottschalk: And it's controlled the last years by the SPD.

Kay Gottschalk: Now, again, by the CDU.

And it's not something like.

Kay Gottschalk: You can compare or you can find a comparison all over the world that a special Kay Gottschalk: secret service is observing the opposition here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think that is growing up by the people here in the public.

It's not right.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think now we are too big and the CDU must notice if they want conservative Kay Gottschalk: policy, they won't realize it with the SPD or the Greens.

Kay Gottschalk: They need us.

And I'm very happy we are now the strongest part because I think Kay Gottschalk: we must be the senior partner in a coalition, not the junior partner.

Kay Gottschalk: And I'm optimistic.

Finally, the pressure from the United States, Kay Gottschalk: from our friends, from the Republicans will help and the CDU will stop it.

Kay Gottschalk: And the third thing will be next year we have very, very important elections Kay Gottschalk: in the state of Sachsen-Anhalt and Mecklenburg.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think it's the first time that we can realize a majority and we can come Kay Gottschalk: in office in these countries and then we can also finish this stupid affair or this, yeah, Kay Gottschalk: it's stupid what's going on here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: So these three points I think are very important and all these points must be Kay Gottschalk: pushed by us very well But my biggest hope is that the U.S.

Kay Gottschalk: President and J.D.

Vance and Rubio finally will say, dear German friends, Kay Gottschalk: you get so much information from our secret services.

Kay Gottschalk: We avoided so many awful things in Germany because your secret service is just Kay Gottschalk: dealing and observing the opposition.

We don't accept that anymore.

Kay Gottschalk: Changed your way in treating the AFD.

And I think finally, in the background, Kay Gottschalk: when they talk, that will work.

And I hope as soon as possible.

Hearts of Oak: What was that like with J.D.

Vance speaking at that security conference in Munich?

Hearts of Oak: I think he was talking about free speech and mass immigration and calling Europe Hearts of Oak: to do things differently.

Hearts of Oak: How did that go down in Germany?

I mean, I know it's six months ago, Hearts of Oak: but I think it's quite key and shows the concern that the U.S.

Hearts of Oak: Administration have for where we are in Europe.

Kay Gottschalk: Yeah, I think it's like you say there's an experiment.

Kay Gottschalk: If you put a frog in a special vessel or something like that and you will heat Kay Gottschalk: the water, the frog will remember or notice too late that it's too hot and he will die.

Kay Gottschalk: And it's something like the Germans came acquainted with this system and they Kay Gottschalk: are just used to know three or four parties, CDU in government or SPD in government, and of course...

Kay Gottschalk: Our economy was something like an anchor for them.

Kay Gottschalk: It worked very well because the people said, okay, let them do, Kay Gottschalk: but I have a good income.

My job is fixed and I'm secure in our social system.

Kay Gottschalk: And that changed rapidly.

Kay Gottschalk: So I think especially now the Germans are open for that.

And when J.D.

Kay Gottschalk: Talked about the situation here in Germany, He also touched the situation in whole Europe.

Kay Gottschalk: I mean, we have the same situation in France.

Kay Gottschalk: We have a special commission by Thunderline who want to control the Internet, Kay Gottschalk: want to control Facebook, want to control Insta.

Kay Gottschalk: Now the Greens in the EUC will suggest that young people under 16 can't consume Kay Gottschalk: the Internet anymore.

It should be forbidden.

Kay Gottschalk: So I think he made the right point.

He made really a good, good speech.

Kay Gottschalk: And if you looked and noticed the faces of Söder and other politicians, Kay Gottschalk: it was, for me, it was fantastic.

I loved it.

Kay Gottschalk: And I watched this scene a lot of times.

Kay Gottschalk: And he's right, of course.

We have no free speech here in Germany anymore.

Kay Gottschalk: When I say the Ukraine war is stupid and we should talk to Russia, Kay Gottschalk: they said I'm an agent and spy Kay Gottschalk: for Russia I mean it's something like McCarthy just from the other side.

Kay Gottschalk: Now the left parties observed it's like McCarthy did this with the left, Kay Gottschalk: streams and left politicians in the United States and it's an awful situation Kay Gottschalk: I mean we need peace in Ukraine and you must talk to the biggest neighbor called Kay Gottschalk: Russia will be also Russia for the next 100 or 500 years.

Kay Gottschalk: And of course, we need our friends in the United States.

We need our friends in Great Britain.

Kay Gottschalk: That's normal and natural.

But what we are doing here in Europe now is crazy.

Kay Gottschalk: Nobody really can find a sense in this way.

Kay Gottschalk: And so I really hope finally we come together and find a solution.

Kay Gottschalk: But I'm sure the United States will help us a second time to find back our path Kay Gottschalk: and way to democracy and real free speech.

Hearts of Oak: Yes, and it's not just Germany that are suffering this attack on free speech.

Hearts of Oak: It's all across Europe with the Digital Services Act.

Hearts of Oak: And, of course, it's the UK with our online safety bill.

Hearts of Oak: And it's a plague that seems to affect the whole of Europe.

And it's not just one country.

Kay Gottschalk: Yes, I agree.

I mean, you made a first step years ago when you said, Kay Gottschalk: okay, you will shrink the influence and the money, the budget of the BBC.

Kay Gottschalk: We still have an increasing budget for our public broadcasting system here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: It's sometimes unbearable what we must notice there.

Kay Gottschalk: Invitations, maybe we are one time in a talk show, in a TV political talk show, Kay Gottschalk: and people from the left are three times there or from the FDP still three times.

Kay Gottschalk: We are still, in a way, discriminated here in Germany by the public system and the public newspapers.

Kay Gottschalk: And we have a controlled market.

It must be forbidden by the SPD.

Kay Gottschalk: The SPD, nobody is knowing that, is one of the biggest media companies here in Germany.

Kay Gottschalk: They built up this strongness and this strong position already after the Second Kay Gottschalk: World War and before the First World War.

Kay Gottschalk: They also have strong newspapers.

and now they have media stations, Kay Gottschalk: little newspapers.

They have influence on broadcasting systems and it's an awful situation.

Kay Gottschalk: So we have a mainstream left political system here in Germany forbidding and Kay Gottschalk: hindering all the conservative parts of our political system.

Kay Gottschalk: And yeah, it's a pity.

Also what's going on in Great Britain, France, Netherlands.

Kay Gottschalk: Austria is a little bit better, also Switzerland, but really the rest of our Kay Gottschalk: EUC needs a push by the United States.

Kay Gottschalk: Big push and an ass kick.

Sorry for that.

Hearts of Oak: They do.

The kick in the ass.

Kay Gottschalk: Yeah, the kick in the ass.

That's what Europe needs.

Hearts of Oak: I mean, what the FD are facing in Germany and in Europe in terms of restricting you, demonizing you, Hearts of Oak: I guess it's similar to what the FPU have had just across the border in Austria Hearts of Oak: or Marine Le Pen has faced with national rally in France.

And it seems to be a tactic.

Hearts of Oak: I mean, the FPU won the election and they weren't allowed to form a government.

Hearts of Oak: You are being sidelined despite pulling top at the moment in the latest polls.

Hearts of Oak: Marine Le Pen, they did everything to stop.

Although she was the most successful Hearts of Oak: party, wasn't allowed to form a government.

Hearts of Oak: This seems to be a pattern that's repeated all across Europe.

Kay Gottschalk: Yeah, it's a scheme.

Absolutely.

I agree also on that.

Kay Gottschalk: It means something like, I think we must accept that our political system is in a way a shop, Kay Gottschalk: And the old parties occupied the shop and also the jobs, Kay Gottschalk: the money, the structure, because there is much money also for parties, Kay Gottschalk: for normal members and the surrounding things like influencers, Kay Gottschalk: like NGOs on the left side, like lobby institutions on the right side.

Kay Gottschalk: So CDU and SPD, they said it's something like that Germany is a victim.

Kay Gottschalk: And the same happened, of course, in France.

If you look to Italy, Kay Gottschalk: when the former Christian party failed, I was also surprised what is going on there.

Kay Gottschalk: And it's something like a criminal structure we have.

Kay Gottschalk: And yeah, and we now break up.

We are breaking this system.

Kay Gottschalk: We try to change it.

We try to bring the people and the nation democracy back Kay Gottschalk: and really that they can say it's our country, not the part, not the country of SPD.

Kay Gottschalk: It was something like ridiculous, but telling the truth when the SPD was talking Kay Gottschalk: about it's our hall where we are in the Reichstag.

Kay Gottschalk: We have for the for the spectators of your channels.

Kay Gottschalk: We are now the second largest party in Germany in the parliament.

Kay Gottschalk: But we still have our hall where we assembled from the last period because the SPD.

Kay Gottschalk: Far behind us is insisting we will stay in our room.

Kay Gottschalk: It's our room, not the room of the parliament.

Kay Gottschalk: And now we also take ways through the institutions to the court because the Kay Gottschalk: SPD just said, no, you won't get this room for your 151 members.

Kay Gottschalk: And they sit there with, I think, 89 or something like that, Kay Gottschalk: or just 100, I don't know, and have a big room, big hall where they are assembling.

Kay Gottschalk: And there are a lot of photos in the newspapers about that.

Kay Gottschalk: Sitting in a room estimated for 90 people with now 151 members of our group, our party.

Kay Gottschalk: It's ridiculous what's going on.

And really, the SPD chairman said, it's our room.

Kay Gottschalk: So, I mean, the room of the SPD.

So that's, I think, the point telling everything about the old party.

Kay Gottschalk: I think it's them.

It's belonging to them.

Kay Gottschalk: It's yours, not the democracy or the country.

It's belonging to the SPD and the CDU.

Kay Gottschalk: And that's, I think, the reason why we see that.

Kay Gottschalk: And it's the same in Great Britain between Tories and Labour.

Kay Gottschalk: It's the same in France.

It's the same, meanwhile, in Spain.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think all over Europe in the old systems and the new ones not if you look Kay Gottschalk: to Poland if you look to other countries, Kay Gottschalk: but we are breaking this system and I think we are something like a rebirth for democracy.

Hearts of Oak: Absolutely and the latest polling the election was only Hearts of Oak: what five months or so ago you got Hearts of Oak: 21% the latest polling we were Hearts of Oak: talking looking at it as we speak has you Hearts of Oak: on 26 percent um hugely successful Hearts of Oak: but of course in germany as in many european countries Hearts of Oak: it's a coalition that often a single party does not get over 50 percent i don't Hearts of Oak: think you've ever i mean you go back 50 years i don't think you any party has Hearts of Oak: got over 50 percent um similar to netherlands which has all these small parties coming together I mean, Hearts of Oak: tell us about, yeah, polling 26%, but yet it's easy, I guess, Hearts of Oak: for the system to still try and sideline you because it's not 50% majority.

Kay Gottschalk: That's right.

You recognized and analyzed our problem.

Kay Gottschalk: Of course, some discuss it's better in Great Britain.

Sometimes the winner or Kay Gottschalk: in the United States, the winner takes it all, something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: But you have only two parties.

You can discuss about that.

But in Germany, Kay Gottschalk: it's a problem.

You need a partner.

Kay Gottschalk: But I'm right optimistic about our situation because I told you before, Kay Gottschalk: We will have elections next year in Saxonia, Kay Gottschalk: so Saxonia-Anhalt, we have Saxonia, Saxonia-Anhalt, and Lower Saxonia, three states.

Kay Gottschalk: And in Saxon-Anhalt, they have good chances to reach a relative majority.

Kay Gottschalk: That means our party maybe will have a result of 43%.

Kay Gottschalk: The FDP, the Greens won't reach the parliament.

Kay Gottschalk: And CDU and SPD and left are not strong enough to beat us.

Kay Gottschalk: So we will have the majority of seats in the parliament.

Kay Gottschalk: That's one of the first possibilities.

That means we are starting to crack the system.

Kay Gottschalk: And this first step, I promise here also to the spectators, where we will stop Kay Gottschalk: the treaty for the public broadcasting system.

Because one country, Kay Gottschalk: one state is enough to block and stop and bring this whole system down.

Kay Gottschalk: And we will do that for sure.

And that's what they fear too.

Kay Gottschalk: And a lot of people in the broadcasting system.

Kay Gottschalk: So that's a great chance in the new countries like Saxonia, Lower Saxonia, Kay Gottschalk: Brandenburg, Turinia and all that.

Kay Gottschalk: On the greater scale, we have to say what is going on in the federal system.

Kay Gottschalk: So when we will vote for the next Bundestag, I think there I still observe that Kay Gottschalk: a lot of people in the city who are not agreeing anymore with Merz and other people in the city.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think a new generation is growing up, not from Merkel, Kay Gottschalk: not from Merz, a new generation.

Kay Gottschalk: And i think they are able to come in touch with Kay Gottschalk: us but first of all we must be Kay Gottschalk: the senior partner that's for me something like a Kay Gottschalk: dogma second one we must really design red lines that can't be crossed when Kay Gottschalk: we will have a coalition on the federal uh scale or the federal uh stage that Kay Gottschalk: That means, for example, Kay Gottschalk: mass migration must be stopped, not the things that are going on here.

Kay Gottschalk: It's something like a joke when Kay Gottschalk: they said, no, we're not controlling the frontiers or something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: We need a total change.

That means migration.

Kay Gottschalk: We need bringing and pushing back a lot of people here in Germany who are illegal here, still illegal.

Kay Gottschalk: They must leave our country.

That's the first thing.

The second thing is we Kay Gottschalk: must stop that the family members can move towards to Germany and can also come.

Kay Gottschalk: So that means one of the family members is reaching Germany and then later on Kay Gottschalk: he can pull his whole family here to Germany.

Must be stopped, of course.

Kay Gottschalk: Then the second thing is we must change completely the euro.

Kay Gottschalk: We must come back to the treaties of Maastricht.

That means no transfer and social transfer union.

Kay Gottschalk: Each country is responsible for The debts of financing The budget Not Germany Kay Gottschalk: is financing Italy, France And all that But.

Kay Gottschalk: And the third one is, of course, we must change here in Germany and stop the Kay Gottschalk: observation of our party.

Kay Gottschalk: And even that it's possible that a secret service, it's coming because of our Kay Gottschalk: history and the Second World War, it should be a guarantee for democracy.

Kay Gottschalk: But now it's vice versa.

It's an enemy for our democracy.

Kay Gottschalk: So at least these three things and the fourth and maybe most important thing Kay Gottschalk: is for us and the city who must accept that, otherwise we can't join a government and a coalition.

Kay Gottschalk: We must change, first of all, the EEC completely, bringing them back to the Kay Gottschalk: roots, meaning a system and a space for economy and for the people living here.

Kay Gottschalk: That means we have free trade.

That's okay.

Kay Gottschalk: Maybe we can talk about an army that defends our position with Great Britain Kay Gottschalk: together against the United States, against Russia, against China.

Kay Gottschalk: So that means we can be able to do that.

Kay Gottschalk: A good example is Airbus.

When we concentrate on things that must work in an Kay Gottschalk: economic way and must bring a profit, it works.

Kay Gottschalk: So Airbus is a good example.

a lot of parts are produced in Great Britain and Kay Gottschalk: France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Portugal and this thing worked.

Kay Gottschalk: Now, Erbus is more successful and bigger than Boeing.

Kay Gottschalk: That's great.

I mean, as an example, it will work, but concentrate on the things Kay Gottschalk: being necessary, not a government, a central government in Brussels and the Kay Gottschalk: France people in France must learn.

Kay Gottschalk: Brussels or Strasbourg.

Nothing but.

We can save so much money.

Kay Gottschalk: It's silly what is going on there.

Kay Gottschalk: So that is a position for me.

And if that won't work, this change of the EEC Kay Gottschalk: right now, we must leave and start a new project.

Kay Gottschalk: Maybe it was Great Britain and we must be the doorkeeper then that the EEC won't Kay Gottschalk: crowd, it's not crowding out again like it did during the 1990s and the 2000s years.

Kay Gottschalk: We must really bring it back to the good sense from the 50s and 60s and 70s, and then it will work.

Kay Gottschalk: And if the CDU will agree here, this is a red line, it could be able then to Kay Gottschalk: come in contact, to come in touch and construct and establish a coalition.

Kay Gottschalk: And this four things or three things are Kay Gottschalk: the the red lines must be the red lines is something Kay Gottschalk: like the dna of our party eece must Kay Gottschalk: be changed or leaving the eece to starting a new project with our close friends Kay Gottschalk: like great britain netherlands austria finland sweden sweden and i think the Kay Gottschalk: other will join then but clear rules nothing this super construction super supernatural.

Kay Gottschalk: Government with Ursula von der Leyen of Kay Gottschalk: course migration must be stopped I think we must also Kay Gottschalk: finish and must talk with our courts it's impossible that the European court Kay Gottschalk: is forbidding and that we can prove mass migration in northern Africa or on Kay Gottschalk: the balcony or maybe also in Asia, Kay Gottschalk: we must really clear this out of the EEC.

That's very, very important for me.

Kay Gottschalk: And as I told you, the euro is a problem.

Kay Gottschalk: Maybe we can leave then if it won't work, both France, Italy, Kay Gottschalk: and other countries in northern euro.

Kay Gottschalk: And a 1,000 euro, but this, like this situation right now, I think France with Kay Gottschalk: 120 and the national product and Italy 144, it won't work.

Kay Gottschalk: We have just 70%.

So we really try to keep the rules, but the other ones, Kay Gottschalk: since the euro is existing, are breaking the rules that can't work anymore.

Kay Gottschalk: So these are the principles, And then I'm sure we can construct a good coalition with the CDU-CSU.

Kay Gottschalk: But of course, the CDU must change, not my party.

Hearts of Oak: No, exactly.

The final thing I want to ask you is in terms of, Hearts of Oak: and it's really interesting to see, I guess, a weaker France under Macron, Hearts of Oak: but then also weaker German leader.

I think Olaf has been a fairly weak leader.

Hearts of Oak: I don't know how much will fit in, so it's interesting to see how that moves Hearts of Oak: the European Union project.

Hearts of Oak: But I want to ask just finally about the issues that really connect with the voters.

Hearts of Oak: We've seen the rise of populist parties across Europe, mass immigration.

Hearts of Oak: I think the concern of Islamisation in many parts, separate from national identity.

Hearts of Oak: I think in Britain, we're taught now to hate Britain, hate their history.

Hearts of Oak: It's probably the same in Germany.

Hearts of Oak: And huge concern of children and what they're learning in schools.

Hearts of Oak: What as you obviously you were campaigning this year knocking on doors talking Hearts of Oak: to voters and what were the key concerns and the key reasons why afd is where Hearts of Oak: it is in germany and parties across europe are having success

Kay Gottschalk: Thank you for that question really um sometimes it's something like logical Kay Gottschalk: for me i i i don't mention it i regret of course we have a problem with, Kay Gottschalk: external cultures external religions especially Kay Gottschalk: as you described and I Kay Gottschalk: could observe that when I was first time in Great Britain already and Kay Gottschalk: it was the same that my family Kay Gottschalk: and the Tories and the Labour Party denied the facts when I was in some parts Kay Gottschalk: district it was in 83 in London and they had big riots and clashes already in Kay Gottschalk: London in 83 and my family took me to Liverpool in a time when Liverpool was really, Kay Gottschalk: really poor and they had a bad situation with the industrial sector.

Kay Gottschalk: So really, it's a key point.

And the people know from Marine Le Pen, Kay Gottschalk: Kickel, and of course your conservative parties that we must...

Kay Gottschalk: Establish a culture a leading culture Kay Gottschalk: and of course Europe has a leading culture so Kay Gottschalk: I disagree a little bit when my party in Kay Gottschalk: a special conference said no we don't need something like a leading culture Kay Gottschalk: of course we need we fought and struggled for that what we have and my your Kay Gottschalk: your dad and your your your grandfathers fought for that what we had it wasn't Kay Gottschalk: a present or something like a gift We must fought for that, Kay Gottschalk: that we have a clear border in Francia between church and state.

Kay Gottschalk: We have no influence of religions in our schools.

Kay Gottschalk: And, of course, that was a success of our Christian way that the church accepted Kay Gottschalk: that the government is ruling, that the constitution of Great Britain, Kay Gottschalk: of my country, of France, of the United States is a deciding factor.

Kay Gottschalk: And that was what is written in the Holy Bible or something like that.

Kay Gottschalk: So what we have, we could observe something like, I think it's called parallel Kay Gottschalk: societies in a lot of countries because exactly of that.

They don't accept our way of life.

Kay Gottschalk: They don't accept our laws.

And that must be changed, of course, Kay Gottschalk: because everybody here in Germany, and I think in Great Britain, Kay Gottschalk: France, Switzerland, even Switzerland is talking to us.

Kay Gottschalk: We want to keep our way of Kay Gottschalk: life it's a successful life and i Kay Gottschalk: asked something something the migrants why are you coming to Kay Gottschalk: germany will you have civil war like in syria will you have civil wars like Kay Gottschalk: in africa you are coming here because we are very successful we've been very Kay Gottschalk: successful during the last 40 years so what should we change what should great Kay Gottschalk: britain really change you are something like Like the mother of democracy.

Kay Gottschalk: You're such an illuminating example for me, Great Britain.

So what should we change?

Kay Gottschalk: Do I like to have a system like in Syria or in Egypt or another country?

No.

Kay Gottschalk: I want to maintain and maybe to develop our democracy.

Kay Gottschalk: And I think it's very important to stress that.

And if we have cultures and Kay Gottschalk: special ways in religion that don't accept that and people don't accept our way of life.

Kay Gottschalk: It's for me logical.

They have to leave.

There is no question, no doubt.

Kay Gottschalk: Sometimes I think other people are crazy to discuss about when you have an enemy inside your system.

Kay Gottschalk: If you have cancer or something that is not belonging to your body, Kay Gottschalk: you will try to get rid of it.

Kay Gottschalk: I don't like people who are fighting against our system, against our democracy and our principles.

Kay Gottschalk: And this is a great problem.

and you described that very well and I think that is a great uniting, Kay Gottschalk: theme for all of the so-called populistic parties we want that Germany, Kay Gottschalk: France Great Britain is still Germany France and Great Britain and that must Kay Gottschalk: also be that's a reason in a greater scale why so many people don't like the Kay Gottschalk: EEC and that problem in this system you want to stay, Kay Gottschalk: to be British and a lot of people now in Germany say yeah we don't like to become, Kay Gottschalk: like the people in Turkey or in Australia or in Africa we want to keep up we Kay Gottschalk: want to eat pigs and we like this meat and now in schools you don't get pig meat anymore, Kay Gottschalk: from pigs.

Kay Gottschalk: It's ridiculous, really.

Kay Gottschalk: We are living here in Germany.

And when I come to Turkey, when I come to another Kay Gottschalk: Islamic country, I accept the rules there.

Kay Gottschalk: I said, okay, I have to get rid of my shoes when I enter a so-called moshe.

Kay Gottschalk: So it's normal for me when people come here and want to live here and want to Kay Gottschalk: be financed by our system, they accept our rules.

Kay Gottschalk: And these rules are for me something like a leading culture, Kay Gottschalk: a leading culture that we have separation between legislative and the heuristic way and, of course, Kay Gottschalk: the normal things in our parliament.

Kay Gottschalk: And this is the principle.

Kay Gottschalk: And that must be really normal and must be defended.

Kay Gottschalk: I think sometimes we have the danger to get rid of all that what we fought for more than 250 years.

Kay Gottschalk: It was a fight also for the workers to have trade unions and all that.

It was a fight.

Kay Gottschalk: And I don't like to get rid of this because of migration.

Kay Gottschalk: And other values, I don't see the values.

Hearts of Oak: Well, you've described perfectly why the AFD is in this successful position you are in.

Hearts of Oak: Kay, I really do appreciate your time sharing a little bit of what's happening in Germany.

Hearts of Oak: Thank God for AFD in Germany, because if you weren't there, it would be a much worse situation.

Hearts of Oak: So thank you for what you do and speaking truth there in the German parliament.

Hearts of Oak: And I look forward to seeing AFD