Emily Wilson Hussem (00:00): The little girl that I was, singing those songs << Jesus loves me this I know >> and you can look at yourself, you look at your younger self, yourself when you were so small and you're like, I believed it, I knew it. I knew I was beloved. Where did it change? Sarah Mackenzie (00:28): Welcome to the Read-Aloud Revival. I'm your host, Sarah Mackenzie, and today I am so thrilled to welcome Emily Wilson Hussem to the show. She has written a new book called Sincerely, Stoneheart: Unmask the Enemy's Lies, Find the Truth That Sets You Free. It's written similarly to one of my absolute favorite books of all time, The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis, but it's for us, for women today and I'm really excited to dive into it with Emily. Emily shares her faith online and all around the world at conferences, on podcasts, on YouTube, and I am really thrilled that she's here to chat with us today. So Emily, welcome to the Read-Aloud Revival. Emily Wilson Hussem (01:08): What a gift. Thank you so much for having me. Hey, to all you listeners out there, I'm so grateful to be with you today. Sarah Mackenzie (01:14): Well, tell me Sincerely, Stoneheart, where did the idea for this book come from? Emily Wilson Hussem (01:18): Yeah, absolutely. So the cool thing about The Screwtape Letters is that there have been many sequels written over many years. People started writing sequels out of their own lens of faith and experience in the 1950s. Sarah Mackenzie (01:28): I didn't know that. Emily Wilson Hussem (01:29): Yeah, there's many. Oh my goodness, there are dozens of them from people of all walks of life, men and women. And so I've been doing ministry with women for 14 years and over the years, I've seen a lot of the ways, too many ways that the devil has tried to steal and kill and destroy women's lives, women's peace, women's belief in their identity and understanding of the Lord's love for them. And so in the pandemic, as many of us did, I had a lot of time to think and a lot of time to reflect and I really got to thinking why are women so miserable and downtrodden? (02:05): And then I started to just write down the lies that women believe, the lies that I've seen women believe, and I started writing little excerpts online, sharing them here and there. I never thought I would write a book, but really unpacking what women have believed in this way brought so much clarity and so much light to my own life and the lives of women and the Lord. I felt the Lord really propelling me forward and I ended up writing the whole book and it's really just a look at the last 14 years of ministry and all the things I've seen women struggle with and hopefully bringing it to light in a way that helps them as The Screwtape Letters did. So many people read that and they thought, I never thought of it this way. I never saw it this way. So that was the hope for Sincerely, Stoneheart. Sarah Mackenzie (02:51): Well, I love too that you wrote this, I mean in the thick of it because you've got young kids at home, so I think it's not just what you've probably seen in your ministry over the last 14 years, but also what you're experiencing because those early years are trying in very particular ways. Emily Wilson Hussem (03:08): Absolutely. Oh yes, it's very vulnerable. I share a lot about my own life. You'll read stories just about the ways the devil worked within my own heart. It started kind of as a self-portrait, but it became so much more as I looked at ministry over the last many years. So yes, I share very deep parts of my heart that were really hard to share, but the Lord asked me to and I did. Sarah Mackenzie (03:26): So viewers and listeners have heard me talk about this before, but Drew, who's my now almost 20-year-old when, we were homeschooling him in high school, I read ... Well actually what we did, I was going to say I read The Screwtape Letters to him. What we did is we listened to it together, just the two of us. He would be sitting there doing pushups and sit-ups and all the athletic things he would do and I'd be working on my puzzle and we would listen and we listened to the whole thing. It's my favorite C. S. Lewis book by far. I love it so much. It is easily the single book I have reread more than any other book except for the Bible, I'm sure, hope. I hope that's true. (04:06): And we got to the end and we just started it all over again and listened to it again and caught even more. It was just a fabulous experience. Even to this day when I ask him, "Out of all the books we read during your homeschool years, what were some of the ones that stick out to you?" He'll name a few. Some of the ones that I knew he would say like The Green Ember, the Wing Feather Saga, and then he says, "But in high school, easily, it's The Screwtape Letters. And I don't know if all of our listeners are familiar with the setup of how The Screwtape Letters is set up, which maybe is important for us to set up Sincerely, Stoneheart. So do you want to explain that? Emily Wilson Hussem (04:41): Absolutely. And Screwtape Letters is amazing. You don't have to have read Screwtape Letters in order to understand the premise. I walk through it in the introduction. So what The Screwtape Letters was was a senior demon teaching his younger demon, his successor, how to destroy this ordinary man's life. This was an ordinary man set in C. S. Lewis's time. And so he teaches this demon how you slowly pull him away from God, how you very subtly pull him into sin. So that is the premise of Sincerely, Stoneheart, a senior demon, Stoneheart is teaching a younger demon how to subtly destroy a woman in the modern age, all the tactics they use against us, all of the lies that are slowly woven into our life. It is this correspondence that brings everything to light about the way they work with one another. Sarah Mackenzie (05:30): Okay, so maybe just to get us going here, would you read one of the letters? I would love it. Emily Wilson Hussem (05:35): Absolutely. I will read letter three. It's called Looking for the Keys. All right, listeners, are you ready? I hope you're ready. This was a big revelation for me in my life as I wrote this one. "Dear Belfagora, as we continue on our journey together, I want to set a foundation for your understanding about the matter of identity. Identity is essential to our subject's life as a human being and we must do everything we can to manipulate and warp her comprehension of who she is. Let us begin. Beloved, that is her truest identity, given to her freely by the enemy," meaning the Lord. In C. S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters, he calls it the same. (06:20): "She did not have to earn it. No hoops to jump through, boxes to check, forms to fill out or tests to take to be worthy of receiving it. Beloved is simply who she is, in every fiber of her being, internal and external, in every last cell within her body, mind, heart, and soul. We cannot strip her of her identity as beloved. This is upsettingly outside of our capabilities, but I assure you that with a well-crafted strategy coupled with dogged determination, we can prevent her from wholeheartedly embracing and living that identity. To better illustrate our goal regarding this core identity she possesses, imagine a scene for me if you will. You've surely seen various subjects who are about to leave their residence with just enough cushion of time to arrive on schedule for an important appointment. They go to retrieve the keys to their vehicle only to realize the keys aren't in the usual spot. Cue panic." You ever been there? (07:20): "They begin running around the house, turning over everything in sight, digging frantically in every bag and pocket as speedily as they can, trying to remember all the places they've recently been. Distraught, running up and down the stairs, searching every last possible place, they just cannot locate them. Now they'll miss their appointment and this is a terrible thing. That is a picture of how the chief has instructed us to teach our subjects about their identity. He envisioned a world of females who are distraught, panicked and looking for an identity that seems to have been misplaced and which they must look for in countless places, in appearances, possessions, accomplishments, titles and more. (08:04): For years our subject has been running around in this chaotic and frenzied search, but she doesn't realize the keys are actually in her back pocket. They've been there all along. She doesn't actually have to look for them anywhere. One of my greatest tasks since the day she was born has been to get her believing she's everything but beloved. When any of our subjects are entrenched in faith groups during their upbringing, it can be more challenging to work against what is proclaimed to them so often and loudly when they're small about how loved they are by our enemy. They have songs about this love that children memorize in Sunday school and at summer camp and in their homes. So it can be tricky to figure out an avenue by which we can slowly undo their belief that they are beloved and hopefully obliterate it altogether. (08:53): With a subject like ours, the chief has outlined one method to break down that belief. The first step is by way of qualifiers. You are loved but. You are loved if. You are loved when. Our work is to destroy the period at the end of that sentence, it is not you are loved. It must always be followed by qualifiers. You'll continue to strive in carrying on the baton of belief that she is inherently not worthy of love. She might still believe in the love she has been told of and experienced, but she'll also believe that there's an asterisk there. Something has to be done to earn that love. It is attained. Not received. It's there but given only when various conditions are met and maintained. She has to meet those conditions day after day for this love could be rescinded at a moment's notice in response to her poor behavior or a monumental sin or some other shortcoming she may exhibit. We're then left with a world full of female subjects striving unceasingly to earn love that's already theirs. (10:01): Hear this clearly, it is already theirs and yet countless subjects are frittering about in unbelief, drowning in all the identities except beloved that they try to take on. A delightful sight when you look at the whole lot of them. They cannot live out their true purpose when they're confused about who they are, they cannot carry out the unique mission given them, and most importantly, when they don't understand and embrace their identity as beloved, they cannot truly be women at rest. There's a great discord in humanity when all the females are suffering from a deep internal chaos. (10:37): In this arena, we also utilize comparison with other women. Some of them will look around and conclude that being loved comes so easily to other female subjects as easily as a knife cuts through warm butter. They see women who seem loved by so many others. Not so with you, you must always stress. You're one of the unlucky few who has to work for any love you get. May their lives be a frantic search for belovedness as we block the realization that Beloved is who they already are and who they will always be. Gleefully, we roll along, Stoneheart." Sarah Mackenzie (11:11): If listeners and viewers aren't just stopped in their tracks, by that, I mean that feels ... There's so many layers to unpack there and I think the specific gift really that Sincerely, Stoneheart gives, which is I already feel really seen when I read something like Screwtape. But what you've done here in Sincerely, Stoneheart is really seeing the heart of a woman specifically and this idea of there has to be qualifiers. It's not you are loved. Period. You are loved if, if you are loved when, and it's that conditionality that just ... And it's so interesting too, the way that you play into that idea that they sing these songs, they know this is true and still they don't believe it. That's the part that I think gets me. Emily Wilson Hussem (11:56): It makes me emotional. Yes, because you think of yourself as a child. It really makes me emotional, the little girl that I was singing those songs << Jesus loves me, this I know >> and you can look at yourself and that's what has been challenging for women going through the book. You look at your younger self, yourself when you were so small and you're like, I believed it, I knew it. I knew I was beloved. Where did it change? And this book hopefully gives women the insight prayerfully to go back and say, "Where did it change? Where did I start that frantic search looking around? And how did the devil specifically sneak into each woman's lives?" (12:35): It comes up in a different way, I think through things people have said or experiences that we had, to go back there in prayer with the Lord to say, "This is when I stopped believing, Lord, heal that part of my heart, heal that thing that that person said to me that I believed." It's different for all of us, but there's a little girl I think in every single one of us who whether you were raised in faith or not, I come from a household where my mom was not raised in any faith, but you can go back there and you can heal those places, which is the hope of the book. Sarah Mackenzie (13:04): Yeah. And see that you, you're striving and there's no striving that's necessary. Emily Wilson Hussem (13:09): Totally. Sarah Mackenzie (13:10): Something that you talk about a lot that comes up a lot in this book is friendship and community, and talk to me about why this is a specific way that the enemy tries to get to us, that we lose our belovedness really is when we disconnect from community, especially as busy mothers because I think especially in your season right now with young kids, mine are slightly older. It's much easier. I just went to dinner with two friends last night. Emily Wilson Hussem (13:36): Fun. Sarah Mackenzie (13:36): And I mean that was something I just didn't feel like was even possible in some of those early years. So let's talk about that. Emily Wilson Hussem (13:42): Absolutely. So the enemy I've seen over the years just really wants to isolate us as women, isolate us as mothers because when we're isolated from each other, we feel like we don't belong and we really thrive in community and that's why we talk about the book is we thrive when we see each other, when we feel seen. Whether we can say out loud, "I really want to be deeply known" or not. Some people would say, "I don't want to be known," but they're lying. We all have this inherent part of our hearts that wants to be seen and wants to be known. So the enemy really comes into sow that division between women, I think especially in friendship because the enemy wants women to believe you don't belong. All these women belong. Friendship comes easy to them. For me, this has been a really hard part of my life is friendship, looking at women with 12 bridesmaids. I'm like, "12 bridesmaids and maintain all those relationships. I must be just horrible at friendship," and those lies that we believe so that women can- Sarah Mackenzie (14:40): I'm a bad friend. That's the thing that I've thought so many times, I'm a bad friend. Yeah. Emily Wilson Hussem (14:45): Totally. And that's the enemy sinking in. You're a horrible friend. Even though you're doing everything you can do, you're supporting, you're being so loving, the enemy sneaks in to say, "You're a horrible friend. You're messing it all up." And so he wants us to be separated from one another. I really believe the enemy uses the past hurts and rejections that we face to say, "Oh no, no, don't try again. Women hate you, you're weird," and sneaks in to really pull us apart from each other because he knows when mothers are connected with one another through amazing things like Read-Aloud Revival, through the communities we have in our churches, we thrive, we feel seen, we're able to share vulnerably from our hearts. (15:24): The enemy doesn't want that. He wants us to stay on the surface, stay disconnected from each other so in the isolation and loneliness, he can work on us even more. So that's all the more reason to fight back and say, "No, no, maybe I've been hurt in friendship, but I'm going to try again and I'm going to reach out again and I'm going to try the community at my parish again," because the enemy wants us to just wave the white flag and say "Friendship with other women is impossible for me and I'm just not going to try anymore." Sarah Mackenzie (15:51): Yeah, exactly. (16:07): Okay, let's talk about social media and I don't want to ... This is always so fraught. You and I both use social media. Emily Wilson Hussem (16:13): Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (16:14): You've got a YouTube channel. There's all this good stuff that we're doing online and good ways we're connecting with each other. I'm blessed in a lot of ways by things I've seen on social media and yet it can also be a tool that sneaks in. When I'm speaking at conferences, I often talk about this fictional composite woman that is formed in my mind when I'm scrolling Instagram and in the matter of 10 seconds I see a woman who's making her own bread. Maybe she's homesteading. Another one who's sewing her own children's dresses. Someone else is making a themed birthday cake. Another one's taking her family, their family's doing a schooling in an RV all over the United States. Another one's reading stacks and stacks of books and someone else is doing science experiments or leading their co-op or whatever. And I somehow create this fictional composite woman out of all of these glimpses into one fictional woman, and that's the one I'm comparing myself against and I can never ever compete with that fantasy person. Emily Wilson Hussem (17:11): Totally. Sarah Mackenzie (17:12): So I feel a little timid about talking about social media. I struggle with the way I feel when I get off social media. I also see really good that comes from what we're doing right now, which is going to be on social media. So let's talk about it. Tell me about that. Emily Wilson Hussem (17:26): Yes. Totally, totally. And me too. People said, "How can you talk about this?" It's like, no, we can talk about it even because the internet can be used for wonderful things and has brought so many people to the Lord. The internet has done so many things, but what I really try to focus on in the book is that compulsive use of screens is ruining your life. If you are not using screens and utilizing the podcasts you listen to and the things that you are looking at to enrich your life, if you're not prayerfully considering all of it, it will ruin your life because the enemy wants to suck you into so many different things. (18:07): Distraction. I have a whole letter on distraction, especially how the enemy uses distraction to distract mothers from their children. That letter is called Hold On, it's letter 10. Distraction. (18:18): Dissatisfaction would really be the word that I use to describe the feeling that you're talking about is when I'm looking at these women's kitchens and [inaudible 00:18:28], we all know, I feel so dissatisfied with my own. There's one line that I use in the book, Our Enemy Being God, I said, "A woman who is dissatisfied with everything cannot see our enemy in anything." Sarah Mackenzie (18:42): Wow. Emily Wilson Hussem (18:42): And that's what I really believe is like you talking about these people doing all these things. I become so dissatisfied with my wardrobe, I become so dissatisfied with the way that I'm homeschooling my own children, the ways that I'm cooking. And that dissatisfaction, it can root so deeply in our hearts so that we're not looking for the Lord in what we already have. We're not grateful like, "Oh, I have this beautiful place to live. Who cares what my kitchen looks like? What a happy home." The enemy doesn't want us there. He wants us to be dissatisfied because really it is one of the antitheses of gratitude. If I'm dissatisfied and I'm angry about all the things in my life, this woman, this ideal woman we put together through all these accounts that we're following, I'm going to be discouraged and sad. (19:29): So really I hope that this will give women a look to not say, just throw out your screen. If you want to sign off social media forever, by all means go ahead. But to prayerfully look at how am I using the internet? How am I using my screens? Are they edifying in my life or not? Sarah Mackenzie (19:47): And maybe actually to go back to that letter you just wrote, when I close my screen, when I turn my phone off, when I stop looking, am I just completely aware that I am beloved, that you are loved? Period. It's not like a you are loved if and when, because that's when all those ... I am looking at all these pictures of other people with their kids in their homes, and then I turn off my phone and I look up and my house is a disaster and one kid is pushing the other kid and I realize I haven't even thought about dinner and it's 4:15. And I think, oh my goodness. The belovedness is actually what gets called into question in that moment, I think. "Look at me, I'm just not enough. Oh my gosh, why am I failing at all of this?" Emily Wilson Hussem (20:27): Totally. I'm a mess. I'm a mess and I'm the only one who's a mess because I've just spent an hour watching highlight reels and everybody's showing their non-messiness. Of course, I'm going to think that I'm a mess. Of course, honestly, and my life is a little bit different because my children don't ... They're not on phones yet. Your life might be a little bit different. I don't know what rules are surrounding that, but I don't know how that plays into your house of do your children use social media or are your children looking at their phones? How does that play into your life in the everyday? Sarah Mackenzie (20:58): Actually, I had this conversation with Matt Fradd on Pints With Aquinas when we were talking about how there's this idea that the more kids you have or the later ... With your younger kids, you're so much more easygoing. And people will say it's because I'm tired. And Matt and I were both agreeing that actually, I don't think that's what's happening. I think there is some of that happening. That is true. But I think another thing that's happening is you learn what hills to die on, what's a big deal and what's not. So it's interesting because with our younger kids, so our oldest are 23, 21, 19, and we've got 13, 11, and 11. With the older kids, I was probably stricter when it came to sassing back at me or first time obedience kind of ideas. That's the kind of stuff I focused on. With the younger ones, I'm not really that worried about those things. (21:45): What I am though, the hill I am willing to die on is social media. "You're not having social media for as long as humanly possible." And so it's so interesting because I think in some ways, yeah, we were stricter with the older ones. In other ways, we're actually stricter with the younger ones in this particular circumstance because I think especially for ... Well since we're talking about women today and the specific challenges that we have. Emily Wilson Hussem (22:09): For sure. Sarah Mackenzie (22:09): For a young woman to be growing up looking on social media at ... If I as a 43-year-old woman am really struggling with all of the things that are happening in my head as I'm scrolling, my 13-year-old is not ready. Emily Wilson Hussem (22:25): I couldn't agree with you more. I could also get emotional thinking about myself, what I would be like if before my freshman year of high school, I was just sitting and scrolling on social media. What I would be like now if that had been my experience as a 14-year-old girl, it's really wild to think about and I am ever more grateful that we were raised in a generation where there was no social media. Nobody wants to look at each other and laugh and have fun. Praise be to God. Sarah Mackenzie (22:49): Yeah, I know. Emily Wilson Hussem (22:50): But yes, I so understand that. And I'm big on no social media for maybe forever. Until the kids are old because you see the compulsive use and the ways that it's destroying so many adults, it's so true about the children. They can't utilize that wisely. It's very, very, very difficult. Sarah Mackenzie (23:09): It's tricky. The friends I had dinner with last night, we had this conversation about also then as our kids are getting older, helping them use it in a way that isn't like now it's like this forbidden thing, they never have it. And then they, let's say graduate and they go off to college and now they can have it, but they've not actually had any practice learning it to use it in a disciplined way or to use it instead of letting it use them. Anyway. Emily Wilson Hussem (23:33): Totally. Sarah Mackenzie (23:35): It's tricky. Okay, so one of the final letters of the book is called The Empty Theater. Emily Wilson Hussem (23:39): Oh yes. Sarah Mackenzie (23:39): And it feels like it applies here because in that letter you talk about the ways that the devil so often uses our mistakes to hinder us from living in the fullness of the way God intended us. I think this is especially true for moms, especially when we're wishing, thinking now, just based on what I just said about my older kids, I'm making decisions for my younger kids based on the mistakes I know that I made with the older kids or the mistakes I made last week when I spoke to a child this way. Emily Wilson Hussem (24:10): Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (24:12): So talk to me about The Empty Theater. First of all, let's tell the listeners and viewers what that is and then what can we do to combat those lies. Emily Wilson Hussem (24:19): Yeah, this is one of the hardest and easiest ones for me to write because this is one of the ways the devil works on me the most. I don't know if you're a woman who dwells on the past, would you say that's a big struggle in your life, dwelling on the past? Sarah Mackenzie (24:31): No. Yeah, I've got maybe the opposite problem, in which case I'm like, let's not worry about that. And then I obsess about the future. So we can talk about that. Emily Wilson Hussem (24:43): The future. [inaudible 00:24:44] It's so true. I feel like it's one or the other. So for me, it's the past. Oh my gosh, coulda, woulda, shoulda. Man, the enemy, it's like a weighted backpack that I wear. So what I say in The Empty Theater is that this subject, she sits in this empty theater and across the screen is her whole life playing back and all of the mistakes that she's made playback all the time. It's like always this fork in the road where you wish you had chosen differently, this monumental sin that you chose that literally changed the course of your life. You go back and the enemy is just there just hounding on you. Just like, "Look at how stupid you are. Look at what you've done. Look at what a mess you've made of it. You could have done this, you should have done this. If you would've done this, it would've turned out differently." (25:32): And the enemy wants women there just thinking, "Oh man, again, what a mess I've made of the whole thing." And I get very emotional talking about this because it's been such a struggle for me. But the Lord, oh my gosh, in writing this and in looking at that, that's the way that I've lived my life is sitting in this theater. He doesn't want us dwelling on the past in that way. The Lord wants us to believe fully, deeply, richly in His forgiveness when we've brought our sins to Him in reconciliation- Sarah Mackenzie (26:01): ... The east is from the west. Emily Wilson Hussem (26:02): Absolutely. He wants us to believe those words as far as the east is from the west and the enemy doesn't. The enemy wants to say, "Not only have you made a mess of the whole thing, but you asked Him to forgive you and you're not going to receive it. Forgiveness is for everybody else except you." So in looking at that, this healing, this is what I want is these letters not to leave you there. I want the letters to bring you to this place of where does the Lord want to heal my heart in this? Where does the Lord want me to change my life in this? Really the Lord bringing me back to those places, the most major things that would play across the screen and bringing me back to a place of prayer and staying with myself in that moment and just forgive myself for whatever I chose or what I didn't know. (26:45): Like forgive yourself Emily, for not knowing. When you're young, you make these decisions, not understanding the full scope of life, not understanding the way things can compound on one another. So the Lord just brought me back to those places. "Forgive yourself for not knowing. It's okay, we can move on from this place and I want you not in a way to look toward the future," not in a way that's freaked out about the future, but look ahead rather than in the rear view mirror. Constantly looking in the rear view mirror will destroy us, and that's what the enemy wants. The Lord wants us to look up ahead and believe in His forgiveness for us. And that's what The Empty Theater was all about. Boy, oh boy, it was very therapeutic for me to write and see, oh my goodness, the Lord wants to love us in those places and move us forward. Forward. Sarah Mackenzie (27:32): Yes. Okay, so this makes me wonder. So as we're talking about all these different letters, maybe it's a good time even to mention that I think this book can really be read out of order. Am I right in saying that? Emily Wilson Hussem (27:42): Yes, there's a story that goes along in it, but you can read them, you can start with letter 21 if you feel like it. Sarah Mackenzie (27:49): Yeah, I mean reading it start to finish is going to be the best experience, but I think if as you're listening to this episode, if you're like, "I need The Empty Theater, I need that chapter," Just skip ahead and read it and then come back and read the rest of it. Emily Wilson Hussem (28:01): Yes. The Empty Theater is letter 41. Sarah Mackenzie (28:04): How many are there total? Emily Wilson Hussem (28:06): 42 total. Sarah Mackenzie (28:09): [inaudible 00:28:08]. So going back, obsessing about the past, and then I was saying my weakness is actually sort of obsessing about the future, meaning worrying about what's coming. I remember when my oldest three were, I think they were four, two. Yeah, they must've been four, two, and then Drew was a baby, brand new, and I went to a bible study at my church. And I'll be honest, the only reason I went is because I wanted the free child care and the coffee and socialization with other grownups because oh my goodness. Emily Wilson Hussem (28:40): Sometimes you've got to. Sarah Mackenzie (28:42): And Drew was a newborn baby, not sleeping at all, colicky. I was postpartum, I was having a really hard time. And I get to the church and I'm getting to where the women are and I've got the baby now, the girls have been dropped off at the little nursery and one of the women, bless her heart, I know she was going through a hard time with her teens. But I came in and I'm just haggard and barely hanging on. And she looks at me and looks at Drew all sweet in his car seat and says, "Oh, I wish mine were that little. Man, if you think this is hard, just you wait." Right. Emily Wilson Hussem (29:20): I write about that in the book in depth, [inaudible 00:29:25] women. I am determined to be an older woman who says, "You're doing great." Instead of, "Just you wait." I just want to hug you in that moment. Sarah Mackenzie (29:35): Me too. I'm like, "What were you actually thinking?" And in hindsight, I can look with compassion on her now as a mother who's also raised teens and go, she was just so mired in her own struggle. I mean, she was just having a hard time too. She also needed a hug. Emily Wilson Hussem (29:51): Yes. Sarah Mackenzie (29:51): I'm not the person to give it to her because I was also struggling, but I wish I could go back and be like, "Yes, Sarah, just you wait. It gets so good. There is grace every minute that you need it. And yeah, it's going to be hard, but He's going to be with you every step of the way." And I wish I could tell for every homeschooling mom I talk to at conferences that looks at me and says, "I'm struggling right now. My kids are a fourth grader, a second-grader, a preschooler and a baby. And I'm not going to be able to do this when they're in high school." And I think, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. It gets so good. And also you'll have the grace in that moment." But that idea, that pernicious thought of, you can't handle this. How are you going to handle, fill in the blank? That's where I get stuck. Emily Wilson Hussem (30:35): And that's the voice of the enemy, clear as the day, and that's what this book, writing it, I'm like, I know the voice now that sneaks in and says, "You're a failure of a mother." I'm like, "That's not the voice of the Lord. That is the voice of the enemy." So the enemy sneaking into tell you, "Sarah, it's only going to get worse from here. It's only going to get harder, you're only going to have so much more to deal with." That's the enemy who wants to keep you there. In the book, I call it The Motherhood Fears Filing Cabinet. And I can think of all the mothers who said, "Oh man, I wish I had the problems of diapers and blowouts and things because I have my teenagers now and it's awful." And the mothers who are maybe struggling. Motherhood is a great challenge to raise up saints in and of themselves. But you just put that away and you're like, "Oh my gosh, it is going to get worse." (31:28): And I started them in this filing cabinet to say, "Okay, I should be really afraid of this. I should be really afraid of this." And I talk about how the enemy just wants us to not look forward with joy to the people that are going to unfold before us and amazing experiences that we're going to have. Sarah Mackenzie (31:46): Gets so good. Emily Wilson Hussem (31:47): Right. And I was at a conference recently where a mother, she said, "My daughter's 25 and she's about to move out, and I'm so sad because I love being with her and I love her living in my house." And I said, "I wish more moms felt free to say that." And she said, we talked a little bit about it and she said, "Sometimes I said that, and other mothers are like, 'You're lying. It couldn't possibly be true. It must be horrible.'" And so she said, "I'm kind of quiet about it." And I said, "Young mothers like me, we need to hear it because the Motherhood Fears Filing Cabinet goes real deep because so many women project that fear onto us," in little moments, where like you showing up with Drew, you needed someone to look you in the eyes and say, "You're doing amazing." Not just you wait. Sarah Mackenzie (32:31): Yeah. Yeah. Emily Wilson Hussem (32:32): So I hope- Sarah Mackenzie (32:33): Well, I know this is hard. You know why you feel like it's hard today? Because it's hard. You're doing a hard thing. That's all I needed really, actually. Not just you wait. If you think this is hard, you ain't seen nothing yet. Emily Wilson Hussem (32:42): Totally. Sarah Mackenzie (32:43): I also think there's this special joy that we don't know that's coming because not enough people talk about it that there is, yes, of course, my three older children don't live at home for most of the year. One of them probably won't come back home and live again. Now she's 23, she's flying. It is also a tremendous joy to watch her fly in a way that is ... It's a different kind of joy than I've ever gotten to experience before. So yes, even though there are challenges coming ahead that you haven't faced before, there are also joys that you've never tasted that are right around the corner. And I think, I wish we all knew that because I think it would help us like, okay, yes, it's going to be hard. It's going to be so good. That's what I wish I could say to myself. Emily Wilson Hussem (33:23): I love hearing that from your heart and I love all the listeners out there who need to hear you as a mom of older kids to just hear, "Just you wait, it's going to be great. It's going to get better and better even though it's hard." I love hearing that from you. Thanks for sharing that. Sarah Mackenzie (33:43): Well, before we wrap up, I know there are a lot of listeners who have young kids at home and yours are all six and under, I think, is that right? Emily Wilson Hussem (33:51): Six and under, yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (33:51): So talk to me just about finding the space to hear the Lord and have quiet now because that's a season ... I feel like for many of us women, there is a stage of motherhood that's harder than others. I have friends who say the teen years were really hard for them. For me, it was easily the baby-toddler years. I am an extrovert. I felt trapped. I felt like ... Yeah, so I know that in those years I felt particularly lonely. I just want to speak to any other women who are listening right now who are in that same season and feeling kind of lonely. Emily Wilson Hussem (34:28): Yeah, absolutely. It's so normal. Like you said, you felt so lonely and it's just so difficult because you think, am I the only one struggling this much? Am I the only one who feels this lonely? And the reality is that there are so many moms who share in that same feeling and that same experience. And I think the most important thing would be, like you said, finding the silence, really thinking, where can there be silence in my life? And where am I not choosing silence? Be selective. I know we're on a podcast and you're listening to a podcast right now. Be selective about the noise that you're putting in your life. Let it only be things that edify you because you will find that if you are selective about these things, you will make more space for that silence. A lot of people might feel discouraged by the moms who say, "I wake up at 5:30 before the children are up and I do prayer time." (35:22): And some of you out there listening, you might do that, and some of you might say, "That's just not something I can do right now." Be with the Lord, discerning with the Lord, not about what other women are doing. Be with the Lord to say, "Lord, show me what is possible for me to do in this time in my life." And it might be five minutes at the end of the day where you just get down on your knees at the side of your bed and you're just there in silence. You don't say anything. You don't ask the Lord to say anything. You're just there with him and you rest with him. Really taking that question to the Lord, "Lord, show me what is possible for me. Show me what I need to cut out for that possibility, to see that that is possible." (35:59): And really just take your eyes away from what other women are doing in their lives, especially in their relationships with the Lord and what they might be doing. And really go back to this personal you and Jesus and how he wants to accompany you on the journey to maybe encourage you to reach out to another mom that you see at church, just to introduce yourself on Sunday and say, "Hey, how's it going? Great to meet you." And really start from there and let the Lord encourage you in your loneliness, but maybe encourage you to be the one to reach out to another mom you know to say, "Hey, I'm struggling. I'm really lonely. Maybe can we meet up sometime?" Or something like that. What would you say? Sarah Mackenzie (36:42): As you're saying that I'm remembering this story, I'm remember, yeah, this story that happened to me when I was pregnant with our twins, actually I just had the twins. They were brand new babies. So we have, let's say I'm trying to do the math, 12-year old, 10-year-old, an 8-year-old, a 1-year-old and twin newborns. And I'm at mass and there is another mom there who she's pregnant with her fourth and hers are all younger than mine, like seven and under maybe. (37:08): And I went up to her after mass and said, "Oh my goodness." She was just about ready to give birth. So I'm like, "Oh my goodness, do you need help with anything?" And she kind of laughed and looked at me and she's like, "You look like you might need help," because I've got all these babies. And I was like, "That's true. I don't think I can help you with anything, but do you want to come over?" And so she did. She came over that week and to this day, we are still friends. Those babies that we had, that I just had, those newborns and she was pregnant are now 11, so 10 and 11, so it's been a decade, we're still friends. And she ended up homeschooling her kids and she was just telling some people recently I heard about this, that one of the things that propelled her to want to homeschool was when she came to our house and she saw it was chaotic and I didn't hide the laundry. Emily Wilson Hussem (37:53): Good. Good. Let it be. Sarah Mackenzie (37:54): She came in and we had to scooch things off the couch for her to sit down. And to me, it's so funny because I'm sure, I don't remember this, but I'm sure that day I thought, oh my goodness, my house is a mess. The sink is overflowing. There's laundry. The kid's ... Why did I invite this woman over? But a decade later, she still remembers it as being like, oh my gosh, she could just have me at her house when it was a mess. It was really ministered to her. So I think we have all these internal voices that in the moment we're feeling like we're being compared or less than. And really what it is is this invitation to be known and to know somebody else exactly like you said, and to sit in that belovedness and be like, you don't have to earn this. This is just the gift. This is the actual gift that we've been given. Emily Wilson Hussem (38:40): And it was one small invitation. You just said one thing, "Come on over," and look what happens. It's amazing, the ripple effect of one moment of reaching out, one moment of courage is incredible. Sarah Mackenzie (38:53): And I definitely was not able to help her. I did not make her a meal. I could barely make my own children meals at that time. But it's amazing. Emily Wilson Hussem (39:01): If you reframe it, you did because you just offered her a cozy place to come and be. What greater help for a mom than that? It's so powerful and we really don't see the power of it until someone like you shares a story like that to say, "Oh yeah, one invitation and come over to a messy house can be so powerful." Sarah Mackenzie (39:22): And such a gift because we always think of it as, "I can't have somebody over here, they're going to see what a mess I am. They're going to be see that I'm like, she can't handle this." And it ends up just being an actual gift to someone else to go, wait, maybe I'm not failing over here. Maybe I can just be myself and that's going to be okay. Emily Wilson Hussem (39:38): Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (39:39): Emily, I am so excited. Sincerely, Stoneheart: Unmask the Enemy's Lies, Find the Truth That Sets You Free available now. I think all so many listeners and viewers will be blessed by this book and really hear the lies that they've been believing unmasked in this book. Thank you so much for writing it. Tell our listeners and viewers where they can find you. Emily Wilson Hussem (40:02): Yeah, absolutely. You can visit emilywilsonministries.com to see my writings and my sharings. I share on YouTube and on Instagram. The book also comes with a group discussion guide, so if you want to do it with 1 mom or 25 moms, that group discussion guide is available on my website, emilywilsonministries.com. You can find it there to dive in deeper. My heart is just for encouraging women, and I hope that this episode for all you listening has encouraged your heart today. Sarah Mackenzie (40:33): Well, now let's go listen to the kids and find out what they've been reading and loving lately. What's your name? Sophie (40:43): Sophie. Sarah Mackenzie (40:44): How old are you? Sophie (40:45): I'm three years old. Sarah Mackenzie (40:50): Where are you from? Sophie (40:51): South America, Colombia. Sarah Mackenzie (40:53): What's your favorite book? Sophie (40:56): My favorite book is The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. Sarah Mackenzie (41:04): Why? Sophie (41:06): Because of Lucy. Sarah Mackenzie (41:11): Is she your favorite character? Sophie (41:12): Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (41:14): Bye-bye. Sophie (41:14): Bye. Abner (41:15): Hello, my name is Abner. I'm from Maryland. I'm nine, and my favorite book is Tintin. Polly (41:23): Hello, my name is Polly. I'm seven years old. I live in Maryland and my favorite book is Tumtum and Nutmeg. (41:33): Hello, my name is Polly. I'm seven years old. I'm from Maryland, and a book I like is Tumtum and Nutmeg. What I like about it is because I like when they sneak up into the attic and help the kids. Speaker 6 (41:49): What's your name? Richard (41:50): Richard Grace. Speaker 6 (41:52): How old are you? Richard (41:53): Two. Speaker 6 (41:56): Where do you leave? Richard (41:56): Michigan. Speaker 6 (42:00): What's your favorite book? Richard (42:01): Chicka Chicka Boom Boom. Speaker 8 (42:07): What's your name? Sam (42:08): Sam. Speaker 8 (42:09): Where are you from? Sam (42:10): Bogota, Colombia. Speaker 8 (42:11): How old are you? Sam (42:12): Five. Speaker 8 (42:13): What's your favorite book? Sam (42:16): [inaudible 00:42:16] World War I. Speaker 8 (42:17): And why? Sam (42:18): Because it has planes and I like wars, bye. Isaac (42:24): I'm Isaac. I'm from Bogota, Colombia. I'm seven years old, and my favorite book is the It's a Numbers Game! sports series. I like it because the books are about sports. Bye. Michael (42:41): Hi, my name is Michael. I'm from Texas, and the book that I recommend is Giovanni and the Fava Beans. The reason why I recommend it is there's not a lot of books about St. Joseph's Day for March, but there's a lot about St. Patrick, and this is about a young boy in Italy who is in a famine and he's about my age, and they pray to St. Joseph to give them rain, and then he gives them rain, and it's a really good book. Thank you. Sarah Mackenzie (43:17): Thank you so much, kids. Thank you for listening to this episode. Wasn't that a joy? Emily is such a gift. I think you're really going to love this book, Sincerely, Stoneheart. You can find links to everything we talked about in the show notes at readaloudrevival.com/267. I'll be back in another couple of weeks. In the meantime, you know what to do. Go make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books.