Sarah Mackenzie (00:13): Hello, hello. Welcome to the Read-Aloud Revival. I'm your host, Sarah McKenzie, and this is the show that helps you make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books. Today I have an absolute treat for you because one of my very favorite picture book authors and illustrators is here to chat with us. I'm talking about none other than Astrid Sheckels. You may know her as the author and illustrator of the Hector Fox and Friends series or maybe Sea Dog or Sea Dog Rescue. She's also the illustrator of the cover and the interior illustrations of Beyond Mulberry Glen by Millie Florence, and she has a new book coming. It hits shelves next week, October 7th, 2025. It is called Flora and the Jazzers, and it is a stunner. I cannot wait for you to get your hands on this book. Astrid lives in New England and loves painting animals in clothing, so you know she is my kind of girl. (01:17): We have loved working with her at Waxwing Books, which is of course the sister publishing company to Read-Aloud Revival, where we are making the best Read-Alouds we can for your family, and Flora and the Jazzers is just going to blow you away. Just got a Kirkus starred review where they called it, "Sumptuously illustrated." Which is truly a perfect description of these illustrations. It's a Cinderella story set in 1920s New York, and our Cinderella character is Flora, who is a ferret working at a very fancy hotel. I won't keep going though. I want you to hear it from Astrid herself, so enjoy this conversation between me and Astrid Sheckels. (01:55): Astrid, it is such a delight to have you at the Read-Aloud Revival. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Astrid Sheckels (02:09): Well, thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to it. Sarah Mackenzie (02:12): Your books have been favorites around here for such a long time. You've made so many gorgeous books for kids. I think most of our viewers and listeners are going to recognize the Hector Fox series. I feel like that series in particular is what I see so often, especially in little gift shops. It's like it's such a beautiful book that gift store shop owners know this is not just a normal book, this is something special. So I've noticed it in this gift shop in Coeur d'Alene and here in Spokane, and then I was in the Northeast. And of course everybody in the Northeast loves your books, so it's just so fun to see your books all over in these out of the ordinary little boutique-y type stores. And then the Sea Dog and Sea Dog Rescue, and of course you did the cover for Beyond Mulberry Glen by Millie Florence. Just absolutely stunning. Tell me a little bit about you and your start into illustrating. Were you always drawing as a child? What did that look like? Astrid Sheckels (03:13): Yes, I was always drawing as a child and I was always, I always had stories to tell and I would tell them by drawing a picture and then I would corner somebody and hold them cap... And I could draw a story. I mean, I could make a story long-winded. Because I'm like, "Oh, but there's this." So I remember one time crawling to my mom's bed and I had a drawing and it was a two-sided drawing, so there was a lot to tell. It was some about a bunny crawling out of a window and I don't know, I think it was also skiing downhill. So yeah, I was always telling stories and I loved to draw since I was little. I also came from a family that read a lot. My dad would read to my sister and me every evening. We got through so many classics. He read Treasure Island and Robinson Crusoe and Secret Garden and Little Princess and probably if it's a classic, he read it to us. (04:12): Even Tom Sawyer, the Narnia books, I think he read those to us. He finished them up when I was five and I have a clear recollection of crying and crying because the stories were over. Also, another part of my background is my mom's from Denmark, so I have that whole side of my family lives there. My mom moved to the US when she married my dad, and so when my grandparents would come from Denmark to visit us, my grandfather would read books to us. So he read Heidi to us and Pollyanna. He read them to us in Danish. Sarah Mackenzie (04:43): Oh, wow. I know a few times as we've been working together, you'll be like, "I'll be out of the office next week. I'm going to Denmark." That's a thing that's happened a couple of times. Astrid Sheckels (04:51): Yeah. It might've happened, which has been lovely. So I have lots of family there and when I go there I just jump right into the culture. So you will see in my illustrations, there is a very strong, probably European feel, be it British or Scandinavian, you do definitely have that kind of feeling comes in there. Can't help it. Sarah Mackenzie (05:12): It's just part of you. Astrid Sheckels (05:13): But I live here in New England, it's where I grew up, and so that really comes through strong in my illustrations and storytelling as well. So the Hector Fox books are very strongly situated in a New England-y forest. Sarah Mackenzie (05:28): Yeah. It seems like they have a strong sense of place. Actually, I think most of your illustrations have a strong sense of place that you never get the feeling that these are characters that could be in different picked up and moved to a different setting. They're a part of where they're, the setting that you've created for them. Astrid Sheckels (05:42): Yes, and because a lot of the stories are animals, it makes sense for them to really be attached to their habitat. Sarah Mackenzie (05:48): That was my very next question for you actually, which is because I think mean, animals are your sweet spot. I mean they are just, oh my gosh. Has that always the case? Astrid Sheckels (05:59): Yes, I love animals. Sarah Mackenzie (06:00): Okay. Yes. Astrid Sheckels (06:02): So if left to myself, I would be drawing animals all the time. And we didn't have quite as many pets in my home growing up as I would've loved, but kittens and birds and fish. And then when I was a little older, we got a dog and that was just wonderful. Actually, my first book that I both wrote and illustrated is Nick and Nellie, and that dog, Nellie, was my dog. Sarah Mackenzie (06:26): Was your dog? Oh, I can picture the cover right now as you're talking about it. Astrid Sheckels (06:30): Yes. Sarah Mackenzie (06:30): Well, you have your animal friends that you paint and put in the most adorable clothing. Astrid Sheckels (06:33): Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (06:34): It's always fits very specific to where they should be. We're going to talk about that, especially with your newest book, which I'm so excited to chat about. Your newest book is Flora and the Jazzers set in 1920s New York. Yes? Astrid Sheckels (06:48): Yes. Sarah Mackenzie (06:49): And published of course by Waxwing Books. We were just absolutely over the moon when we saw this beautiful starred review come in from Kirkus saying, "The book was sumptuously illustrated." That is the perfect description of your illustrations. They're just lush and gorgeous. We're going to put some of those illustrations here on the screen so our viewers can see this. And by the way, listeners, if you are listening to this episode and want to see some of the visuals because you really do, because Astrid's illustrations are so incredibly stunning, you want to go readaloudrevival.com/video so you can watch this episode as a video and see all of Astrid's beautiful illustrations for yourself. Tell us a little bit about Flora and the Jazzers and then we'll dive into making the book. Astrid Sheckels (07:32): So Flora and the Jazzers. So it is a story about a little scullery maid who works at a very fancy hotel and she scrubs all day and while she's scrubbing, she's singing and humming to herself because she loves music and her heart is full of music. And even though she has a very lowly job, that does not dampen her spirit. And she loves jazz music, which since it is 1920s, there's a lot of jazz around and her favorite band is the Jazzers. And then lo and behold, they come to her hotel where she's working and are going to have a performance. So it's a dream come true, and she has been hoping and saving her pennies so that one day she would be able to attend an actual concert herself. (08:16): So favorite band comes to the hotel, it's perfect. And she goes and asks her hotel manager if she can go to hear them. She can just sneak in, nobody will see her. And the hotel manager says, "No, music's not for someone like you." And that's absolutely devastating and shattering for Flora, understandably so. And then we switch gears and we meet up with the Jazzers who are very, a nice jovial bunch of musicians and they are geared up to have their performance and they discover that they are having a major problem and they need some sort of a solution. And Flora might be who they are in need of. Her voice and her person. Sarah Mackenzie (09:01): I have my own favorite illustration that we're going to talk about. I'm wondering if you have one. Do you have an illustration that was like, this was so much fun to make? Astrid Sheckels (09:10): Yes, I have two. There's one where, and it was actually a scene I had right from the beginning of my first inkling of the book, and that is a scene where Flora is walking into the ballroom with all the guests and they all turn and look at her and they're like, "Who is that?" It's a total Cinderella moment. Sarah Mackenzie (09:29): Yes. Astrid Sheckels (09:29): And they're like, "Who is that beautiful lady?" And no one recognizes her at all. Sarah Mackenzie (09:34): Yes. Astrid Sheckels (09:35): And she's still Flora, and that's what I love about her. She's still Flora, even though she goes through this transformation, she's going to be on stage and she has the new clothing, but she's still the sweet little ferret that we've met right from the beginning. So that one was really fun to do. The one that surprised me that I am really excited about is actually here behind me and it's the cutaway of the hotel. This is my favorite. And that one, it was a surprise because, okay, confession time, illustrators, authors make mistakes. What? Yes. I had laid this book out and I realized I was like a whole spread short, the story was a little too short. Sarah Mackenzie (10:19): So let's back up for just a quick second so I can explain to our listeners and viewers. Books are assembled in signatures, which are basically signatures of eight, and those pages are if you were to pick up a book off of your shelf, like a novel or something, those might be in signatures of 16, but you pull the book off your shelf and you can see little collections. It's almost like a bunch of tiny books that have been combined together into a single book. And the reason they do that is for printing purposes so that when they're running these big sheets through the printer, they have multiple pages on a sheet and they get folded into a signature and that signature goes into a book. So because of that, picture books are always done in signatures of eight. So your book is usually either 32 or 40 or 48, but you can't make a picture book that's say, 30 pages or 35 pages. That doesn't work because then you're going to have a bunch of blank pages in your signature, which is what you were up against, right? Astrid Sheckels (11:17): I was ending up with a 30-page book. Sarah Mackenzie (11:20): Okay. Astrid Sheckels (11:22): So, yeah. So I quickly scrambled and I thought, okay, where do I need something extra? I did want it to be sumptuous. I wanted it to have a lot there. And I thought, wow, what would happen? I wanted to open up her world so that we could see more of where she lives and where she works. Then there's a little bit of a break in the story right here because it's all from Flora's perspective. And then at this point there is a shift and we start seeing things a little bit from The Jazzer's point of view. So that, what if we had actually a scene that created that break so it makes sense that we travel from where Flora is now scrubbing away in the hotel to where the Jazzers are just coming into their dilemma moment and we see them? (12:04): So there is this scene where you see a cutaway of the hotel, where you're seeing the different levels and the different areas where the guests are that's very fancy and opulent and chandeliers and very glitzy. And then you have the up above, you have the different hotel rooms, a lot of doors and a nice stairwell leading up there. And you have the back stairs where Flora is scrubbing totally unseen, it's very gray and gloomy. And then down at the lowest level you have the staff quarters where they have their, they're down there cooking and polishing the silver. And so you get the whole feel of the bustling busyness of the hotel and the bird's eye view. And it also looks like a dollhouse. I loved dollhouses when I was little. Sarah Mackenzie (12:55): This is the spread where your kids are going to be like, "Stop, stop, stop reading. I just have to sit here for a minute. I got to look." Because it's like a feast. There's so much to look for. I've looked at it so many times and still I'll be like, oh, I did not notice that before. That's what I love so much about it. And also just hats off to all the detail of... That cannot be an easy thing to illustrate the interior of a hotel set in a different time period where you want to make sure everything works is accurate for the time, also works for the story. And then you have mice and aprons. Oh my gosh. I mean seriously, I cannot get enough of this. Astrid Sheckels (13:36): And so many characters I was just counting and now I've blanked out on, it's like 38 characters or something in that scene. Their little eyes are showing and whiskers when appropriate, it's tiny. And that particular scene, I was like, yes, I totally want to do this scene. And then as I worked on it, I was like, day by day I was getting one room done at a time. I'm like, this is taking so long. But it's worth it. It's worth it. Sarah Mackenzie (14:01): From the viewer's perspective, those of us who didn't have to make the art and just get to enjoy it, it was totally worth it. But I also giggled, I knew you were coming up with something for this blank spread and when you sent in what you had, I was like, oh, we weren't just like, let's make a quick wordless spread that will keep the pacing of the story. I mean, I wondered how often when you started that you thought, what have I done? Astrid Sheckels (14:28): I really wanted it and I was so excited that you wanted me to do this. I've never done anything quite like this, like a total cutaway where you're seeing everything. Everything is shown, unless it's up under the ceiling and you're not seeing the ceiling. But otherwise there's so much perspective and you can get all the different, I played around with the color, what kind of color scheme would be on the different levels. And so that helps with the setting the mood, and I really wanted you to get that bigger world grandiosity, I guess maybe. Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (14:59): Do you remember how long it took to make that cutaway? Astrid Sheckels (15:02): Oh, I think I probably spent a week on it would be my guess. And that's like I leave my home, I drive to my studio, my studio happily is not in my home so I can, it's like a 09:00 to 05:00 job. Sarah Mackenzie (15:17): I understand. This is not in my home either for the same purpose. I have to be able to close the door and be like, okay, now we're doing something else now. Astrid Sheckels (15:24): Yes. So I would say probably about a week. I don't remember. Sometimes if I'm really immersed in something, I have to actually put it aside so I can have fresh eyes and I'm not just spinning my wheels like I'm getting tired of this because I need to make sure that when I am painting, that I'm in the right frame of mind. If I go and I'm just like, okay, I'm just supposed to paint and I'm not thinking and engaged in it, it starts looking like I'm not thinking and engaged in it. Sarah Mackenzie (16:04): Interesting. (16:04): Okay. So one of the things that makes you unique is that you are the author and the illustrator. So writing the story and painting the story, I don't know about this process from a personal perspective because of course I'm not an illustrator. I want to know what this is like for you. Is it all words until the words are completely done and then you move into sketching? Or what does your process look like? Astrid Sheckels (16:25): So the story does have to come first, but at the same time when I'm first trying to come up with an idea for a story or it's coming to me, it often is visually. So I'll get an idea, some kind of a picture in my head and I'm like, oh, is there a story to go with this idea that I have? So going back a little bit with Flora for instance, that was very round about. I had this idea that I wanted to write a story about some musicians and I wasn't sure if they would be classical musicians. It would be a big orchestra or something that would have some that weren't very good. They wouldn't be very good and they would need someone to help them out. (17:01): And the reason I had an idea for that was because probably one of the very first drawings I ever did was a mouse that was conducting an orchestra, except it was just like a mouse standing at a music stand. I think my mom said I was probably about three. The drawing does not exist anymore, but I was three. And she was just like, "What did you just draw?" Because it was a mouse that was holding a baton at a music stand and had the perspective was there. And she was just like... Sarah Mackenzie (17:27): Yeah. Astrid Sheckels (17:27): Okay. Sarah Mackenzie (17:30): All the rest of our three year olds make smiley faces. We're like, "Look, they got two eyes and a nose on there. That's amazing." Astrid Sheckels (17:36): I don't know how good this really was, but she said it was recognizable. Sarah Mackenzie (17:40): We'll believe your mother. We always believed the mother. Astrid Sheckels (17:44): So I've gone back and I was like, oh, that'd be really fun. That'd be a fun character. So I've been trying to force him into a story and he just wouldn't go there. And so then I was like, okay, well maybe something about some musicians and it just wasn't really gelling all that much. And then I was like 1920s, I want to do something 1920s because the fashion and that was like jazz. I was like, jazz musicians do not need a conductor. And then I was playing around a little bit with just doing a lot of drawings of animals and tuxedos and very 1920s and some of the guests and in little flapper outfits and stuff. And I was thinking that they would have a vocalist and she was going to be a Bobcat or something. Her name was either going to be Nora or Flora. I don't quite remember. I think it was Nora. She wasn't quite working. (18:34): And then I was looking at some of the other characters I'd drawn and I'd drawn these two weasels or ferrets. I was just like, she's so cute. Maybe could she be in the story somehow? And somehow, then it all of a sudden Flora became Flora. Then it all of a sudden became that it was about Flora from her perspective and her point of view and that she didn't start out as this amazing, she was an amazing singer, but she wasn't part of a band, but it was about how did she become that. Sarah Mackenzie (19:03): So I love this because it feels like, it makes sense to me because since illustrations are such a storytelling conduit, I guess, that it makes sense that it's in tandem. Like you're writing and you're sketching at the same time and then your sketching is impacting your writing and then your writing. Yes. And then of course before we got to the place where you were making final sketches, the story was pretty much nailed down at that point. Astrid Sheckels (19:31): Right. So definitely I need to come up with some sort of an idea and that's very tied into what I'm thinking visually and how I, what I want the visual impact of the story to be. And then it goes to total writing where it's like I'm writing writing, I'm not getting to draw. I'm not very happy because I'm just writing. I got many, not mood swings, but it's like I'm writing. It's hard. I can just say writing is very hard. Sarah Mackenzie (19:58): Okay. That was a question I had for you. I had a guess, which is going to be, what would you say is the harder part, but you're answering it now, I guess. Astrid Sheckels (20:07): Yes. Sarah Mackenzie (20:07): So something oftentimes when I'm describing the different people who work on our books at Waxwing, I describe, everyone knows what an editor is because all had some experience at some level with an editor, whether that was even just your teacher in elementary school. And then we get to the art director and I always like to describe that as the editor for the illustrations, but I don't know because I'm not an illustrator. Does that feel accurate to you? Since you had an editor for Flora, you had an editor for the text and an art director for the art and everyone's working together and you were the glue holding everything together because this is your work. So do you think that's an accurate descrition? Astrid Sheckels (20:48): I think it is. I personally feel a lot stronger in the art side of things. I have a background in fine art, but I feel like that's second nature to me, whereas the writing doesn't, so I ended up having I think a lot more help with the editing side of things, but working with the art director, that was really good because I gave her a lot of visual things and it laid out what I was thinking. And then she came along and tweaked things a little bit, shifted things. There was one scene and I've been happy with, it was fine. It was where the Jazzers are walking into the hotel and Flora is down in the basement window, peeking up through and seeing them. And I had sketched it out and when Cara, the art director sent it back to me, she was like, "I hope you're okay with the fact that I flipped the illustration, flipped the sketch around." So that they would be, because I had them over on the right walking toward the, walking into the left. Sarah Mackenzie (21:50): Into the left. Yes. Astrid Sheckels (21:52): And I don't know why I drew it that way. I just had. And so she flipped it around so what you'll actually see in the book is that the characters are on the left page now and walking up the stairs to the right. And when I just saw that and it was my sketch and it had been flipped around, it was just like, oh, that made everything, I had drawn it the other way but flipped around, sometimes if you flip things, things look a little wonky and weird, but this all of a sudden was like, that was what was missing. And it makes a whole lot of sense because we read from left to right. So if you want some kind of forward motion, like them actually walking into the building, it makes a lot of sense to have them over on the left so that they can be walking right up the stairs, so our eyes and brains tell us they're walking up the stairs versus, I don't know, falling backwards if they've been on the other side. Sarah Mackenzie (22:38): Yeah, it's funny. Cara does this all the time with our artists at Waxwing where she'll just like, we're just going to turn... Dear Duck was another book where this happened a lot where she just flopped things to make Duck walking toward the right. And she was saying to me that it's the, yes, that characters that are leading the reader through the story, you keep going, you're moving, and then if you have a part in the book where everything needs to come to a, like a sudden screeching halt or a standstill, a lot of times turning that character so they're pointing to the left does it visually. (23:12): It's amazing when you look at how this works. I was just looking at Red and Lulu by Matt Tavares, which is one of my favorite Christmas picture books, noticing that in that book, Red, who's the red cardinal is forward facing, the beak is pointing to the right the whole time until we get to the very moment before he finds Lulu. It's like one beat where it's like he wants you to pause and in that one he makes Red the cardinal sit on a branch and turn to the left. I'm trying to in my brain, and it does absolutely make you pause for a beat and then it's, oh, I feel like he finds Lulu. And I think as readers we have no idea this is happening to us. Astrid Sheckels (23:56): But that's the fun thing that as creators that we get to do, we can actually get you to think a certain way. Sarah Mackenzie (24:04): Yeah. And you have a experience in fine art, which I interviewed Scott Gustafson who's a fine artist who's done some picture book work as well, fabulous paintings of fairy tales especially. And he was telling me about how part of the job of the fine artist is to guide your eyes and there's things that you do with light. And you use light really beautifully in Flora I think as well, especially toward the end when Flora is really coming into her own. Astrid Sheckels (24:29): Yes, that's also something that was wonderful with the art direction is the spotlight scene where the text is actually in the spotlight and is traveling down. It's a wonderful moment that I take no credit for that just helps the whole thing to come together in this wonderful way. Sarah Mackenzie (24:46): Let's talk about those end papers. I love end papers. I say this all the time, but I really feel like, I mean I'm also love theater and I feel like the end papers are the opening curtain and the closing curtain where you're just being like you're now in story world. And your end papers, you did put up this reel on Instagram of a bit of your process. I will admit I have worked with you for a while now and have seen a lot of these end papers over and over and had no idea that your process was anything like this. Tell me about this process of making the end papers. Astrid Sheckels (25:24): So I had the idea for end papers. I really wanted to make it look like wallpaper. So if you do look at the cutaway scene of the hotel, you can actually find the wallpaper is in one of the hallways. But I really wanted to have this art deco 1920s feel wallpaper and get some of that patterning. And so there is a lot of patterning throughout the book. (25:42): I feel like every book I do, I'm learning something new. I was like, okay, so I'm going to do this and I wanted to paint the whole thing. I didn't want to just make a little bit of pattern then digitally duplicate it, what can easily be done. I was like no, I want to paint the whole thing and I want you to be able to see it's painted and have this handmade feel. So yes, I sketched the whole thing out, a lot of measuring because I didn't want to be like, okay, and the pattern's going downhill. I wanted the pattern to repeat nicely, so a lot of careful drawing. And then I went through with a masking fluid, which is almost like rubber cement, and- Sarah Mackenzie (26:18): That's the thing that was sticking up on that [inaudible 00:26:22] Astrid Sheckels (26:21): I had this attachment to it. It dried up after I used it, but that's almost like a needle and you can actually with it and it came back globby, which you can see in the video. Let that dry for a whole day and then I came back and then did a wash over it. Just a little stripey, but got that whole effect in for the background blue color, that tricky color to reproduce. And it's a little variegated as it goes across, which was intentional, like happy mistake. But yes, it was what I was wanting. (26:55): I really wanted to set the stage so that you get the opulence of the hotel and then you get that opening scene with the hotel from the outside and all the guests, and then you see how beautiful it is inside and then you go down, down, down to Flora. So it was a lot of careful, careful detail. I knew it was worth it to do that for the end papers. And- Sarah Mackenzie (27:16): They're stunning. Astrid Sheckels (27:17): ... when I'm painting, I do have a lot of self-doubt. I'm looking and critiquing it myself and I'm like, is this good enough? I don't know. I don't know. And I usually, I have to push through to the end because every painting I do goes through what I call a yuck stage where I can't stand it. I do not want to look at it because it looks, eh. Sarah Mackenzie (27:34): Okay. Astrid Sheckels (27:35): That's because I'm judging it too soon. I've just started and it has so much further to go. So yeah, yuck stage for this was probably when I was trying to get the original color down on the background or when I took off the masking fluid, removed it and I thought, oh, what am I doing now? I'm always having to remind myself, don't judge it too soon. Come back tomorrow with fresh eyes. And there were actually quite a few times in this book where I came back and I was like, it was as bad as I thought it was and I had to start over again. I was on a very tight time schedule for this book and I think it was the outside of the hotel, that big scene right at the beginning where the story starts. I spent probably two days on that scene when I realized I had drawn the building incorrectly. There were too many windows, there wasn't enough structure, and it was the wrong time period. It didn't look 1920s, I'm not sure what it looked like. Sarah Mackenzie (28:28): There's a balance between you're at the yuck stage and knowing I'm just going to push through and see what happens versus, nope. Astrid Sheckels (28:35): So there is a balance, but every single painting I go through goes through a yuck stage. Sarah Mackenzie (28:39): That's really helpful to hear. Astrid Sheckels (28:41): So when I'm alone in my studio, it's like, am I doing Flora justice? Because Flora has been a little friend for a while and I was like, okay, this is her chance to shine. I want to make sure she gets to shine. Sarah Mackenzie (28:50): Yeah, she does. Oh my goodness. Astrid Sheckels (28:53): She does. Here's the end, she gets to shine. Yes. Sarah Mackenzie (28:55): What was the hardest part about making this particular book? How many books have you done? Do you know? Do you have a number? Astrid Sheckels (29:01): So Flora is actually my 15th book and she's my ninth book where I'm both the author and illustrator. Sarah Mackenzie (29:08): Okay. Astrid Sheckels (29:09): That's a lot. Sarah Mackenzie (29:10): That's a lot of books. Astrid Sheckels (29:11): And each book presents its own challenge. So the big challenge with Flora is the fact that it is set in a certain time period. Sort of certain time period because, hey, did anthropomorphic animals really live in the 1920s? Sarah Mackenzie (29:26): You have a little bit of creative freedom there. Astrid Sheckels (29:28): Right. I did want it to have this sense of age and time and that it would have a distinct sense of place that's different from any of the other books I've done. So it is 1920s, so I did a lot of research into the clothing that was worn at that time period, the architecture. So there are some things that I have to try to figure out how to get that feel the 1920s fashion, but at the same time, I need to put little animals into that clothing or put the clothing onto little animals. (30:00): Another thing that was tricky was I was working a lot with architecture, a lot of interior scenes. It was a little easier because I did make quite a few vignettes, so I didn't have to, not every single illustration was really grounded in tons of vanishing points. There were some where I was having to measure everything out and okay, make sure everything like that sidewalk scene that I was talking about earlier where the characters, the band is going up the stairs to the front door, there I had everything taped out with these long vanishing points so that I could make sure that the sidewalk and the windows and the brick or stonework on the facade, that everything was working together. Sarah Mackenzie (30:39): Wow. Astrid Sheckels (30:40): Hector Fox books take place out in the woods. Trees are extremely forgiving. Sarah Mackenzie (30:44): Oh yes, okay. Astrid Sheckels (30:46): And it was just like I can make up my own stuff. And even inside, he has a house, but even inside, it's down underground, so things can be a little wonky and things can be tilted a little bit. I mean, he has tons of books, so I need to make sure if the book on the floor, they are actually on the surface of the floor and aren't tipped Picasso style, but it's a little different than when you are- Sarah Mackenzie (31:09): Natural setting gives a little more forgiving. Astrid Sheckels (31:12): Very forgiving. Sarah Mackenzie (31:13): Yeah. Astrid Sheckels (31:14): So out in the woods I can paint those scenes actually fairly quickly because it's just like trees, branches, blah, blah, blah, there're the leaves. We get the feel. And here it's like, oh, but there's a wall back there. What is on the wall? Sarah Mackenzie (31:28): Yes, right. Astrid Sheckels (31:29): What's going to be back there? What color is going to be back there and where am I going to put the text? I can't just say like, okay, breaking the trees, we now have sky. We'll put the text up in the sky because there is no sky. So it's like, okay, where am I going to put this in this scene without it looking strange? So one of the scenes where I worked with it quite a bit is the scene where Flora is asking her boss if she can come to and listen to the concert. There was actually quite a bit of text, but there were also, I was planning a lot of characters. I wanted this full scene with all the hotel staff bustling around and getting ready and everyone is all in there like fancy. Sarah Mackenzie (32:07): Because it ramps up that FOMO feeling of poor Flora that she's going to miss, she really wants to be a part of this. Astrid Sheckels (32:13): Right. And they're all the upstairs staff and they're the ones with the crisp uniforms and they look very presentable and she's there with her little work dress and stains and apron and her bucket and her, she's just like, "Can I just hide behind a plant?" Anyway, so I wanted the plant and I wanted the big hotel manager who's not very friendly. I chose him to be a Fox because not all foxes are friendly. Now that I've made Hector, everyone thinks when they see a fox made by me, it is Hector. So no, that is not Hector. It's the [inaudible 00:32:46] hotel manager. Sarah Mackenzie (32:46): Yes. Astrid Sheckels (32:47): So anyway, so I wanted to get the full feel of the interior. So I wanted the wallpaper and I wanted that hustle and bustle. I'm like, where am I going to put the text? And so actually some of the text is up in picture frames, so I dropped the picture out and just had the frame. So that gave an empty space and also some of it's down in the floor and stuff. That proved quite a bit of a challenge. One thing that was challenging about that particular illustration is I hadn't figured out what it was going to look like before I started painting. Not a good idea when you work with watercolor. I work in watercolor and you can't really undo things, you can start over again. (33:26): So I had basically, I had painted in the characters and then I'm like, so what am I doing with the background? Very bad way to do it, but it worked out. It did work out, but I made it a little harder for myself working that direction. Sarah Mackenzie (33:37): Yeah. Yeah. Astrid Sheckels (33:38): Yes, if working with watercolor or basically anything you do, plan it out before you start painting. Do lots and lots of sketches, try it out and don't just like, okay, we're just going to start. Sarah Mackenzie (33:48): Yeah. Oh gosh. Astrid Sheckels (33:50): I think that is a little bit of my fine art background because there we were taught to keep your options open and be willing- Sarah Mackenzie (33:56): Oh, interesting. Astrid Sheckels (33:56): ... to move with the painting, the paint. Don't decide at the beginning what the painting's going to look like. Just- Sarah Mackenzie (34:01): Okay. Okay. Astrid Sheckels (34:02): ... feel and learn as you're painting doesn't work quite as well with watercolor- Sarah Mackenzie (34:07): Yeah. Astrid Sheckels (34:07): ... in a book of illustrations. Sarah Mackenzie (34:08): Yes. And with picture book illustrations where then your art director is like, "But I needed to put text on this page. Where is that going to go?" Astrid Sheckels (34:14): So happily all that was planned out, so I knew exactly I need to save this space. So I knew what I had to work with, but yes, because it was planned out before I started painting. But just not that aspect of what am I doing with the background? What am I doing with the background? Sarah Mackenzie (34:27): Yeah. What surprised you about making this book? Was anything surprising? I mean it's book 15, so you've a lot of experience both illustrating other people's writing and your own writing. What surprised you about this one? Astrid Sheckels (34:41): I think what really surprised me was just how smooth the process was and working with a wonderful team at Waxwing. It was wonderful to work with super supportive people. It felt like a real team effort. So I'm looking at this, what I think is a gorgeous, it's my best book so far. Sarah Mackenzie (34:58): I agree. I love all of your books so much. This one just, I mean it's sumptuous is the best word for it, truly. Astrid Sheckels (35:08): But it's like every aspect of it. When I saw the edits, when the edits were finally done, I looked at it and thought, wow, this writing is so good. And I got there because it was a team effort because I had someone who was helping me. And I looked at the final layout of the book where I'd done all the art for it, but then seeing it actually even just in digital files, seeing it laid out because someone else had added their touch because Cara had added her creative touch to it and it just brought it to another level. Even though, I mean I've been working on these for months and I knew them inside out. It was just seeing them through somebody else's eyes and then finally now seeing the color proofs when they came in from the printer, and then finally holding the bound book. It's gorgeous. Sarah Mackenzie (35:59): This so gratifying for me to hear. When I started Waxwing, I knew I have such a strong appreciation for the collaborative nature of picture books. I think they're a unique form of book making because they require so many hands to do well. And I think you can tell when a book has either fewer hands or fewer, less genius coming in at all sides. So when I created Waxwing, I knew I wanted this world-class team. Could we do it? I don't know. I'm just going to start and we'll figure it out. And it has been such a joy to watch Cara Llewellyn as art director, like you said, pulling in her own unique genius on being able to look at an illustration and be like, "Actually, all we need to do is flip the characters." Or "All we need to do is move this little piece up." Or she was using just the right font for every story, which she nails every single time without fail. (36:51): And then your editor for this particular book was Caroline Starr Rose, who is also one of my favorite authors and she is now working on several projects with us as editor at Waxwing, and has this ability to see what you were trying to do and really honor what you were trying to do and also call you up to, see where it could be better and call you up to it. I don't know how she does it, but she does it. It's amazing. Astrid Sheckels (37:17): Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Mackenzie (37:18): So all these different pieces and the printer and our editorial director who's making sure everything's staying on schedule, which is not my forte whatsoever. Making sure no balls get dropped in between. And then talking to our sales team and the distribution partners that need to get it out to bookstores so that it's in the hands of readers on time. It is an absolutely awe-inspiring collaborative effort because then we can look at this book and go like, this needed every person who touched it to touch it to bring it to life. Astrid Sheckels (37:45): Totally. And I feel like with Flora, I had a team supporting me that believed in Flora just as much as I did. Sarah Mackenzie (37:52): We're so excited. We're going to put links in the show notes to all of Astrid's books, including Flora and the Jazzers, which comes out very, very soon, next week when this episode is airing so you want to go get your hands on it, Astrid, at the beginning you mentioned that your dad read aloud to you mostly classics. I'm so curious, if you could illustrate any children's classic, which one would you be like, "Oh goodness, I would love to illustrate that one"? Astrid Sheckels (38:17): There are many. I would say Narnia. Sarah Mackenzie (38:20): Okay. What's your advice for young people who want to do what you're doing? What would you tell them if a young person just came up to you and said, "I want to do what you're doing when I'm older. What should I be doing now?" Astrid Sheckels (38:34): Yeah. So right now I would say get a sketchbook and whenever you have a moment where you're sitting and you're not sure what you're supposed to be doing or what you could be doing, you're just sitting, waiting, sketch. Observe what's around you. And this goes for whether you're interested in art or you're interested in writing. You'll become better at it the more you observe the world around you. And I found one of the best ways to observe things is by trying to draw it. So whether you are terribly good at drawing or not, it's good to... Because the longer you look at something and study it, the better you'd be able to draw it. But the same thing, if you are looking at and studying it to be able to draw it, you will notice things. So it works both ways that it can help you be a better observer by sketching and drawing and it can help you sketch and draw by spending time doing it. Spend time observing the world around you and the beauty of what has been created and where we are living. Sarah Mackenzie (39:38): Are you saying sketch the things you see, not just what you're... I think sometimes we think, oh, I'm supposed to be original. I can't just sketch what's around me. Astrid Sheckels (39:45): You know what? I would say before you... It took me a while to be original. And if you look at my books, you actually, if you look at the books that I have, like my earlier books, so the books before Hector Fox, it was very grounded in reality and not a lot of my own personality was coming through it and my own style. But all those years of, and also with my fine art background, but all those years of painting and observing and painting things very realistically based on what I was seeing, that was able to inform me so that when I then started painting things very imaginatively like Hector Fox or Flora, I guess the reality that I had very much immersed myself in was able to inform my imagination. (40:25): So at this point, if you're young, don't worry about being original. Worry about gaining the skills of being able to draw, being able to make good marks, being able to render or recreate what you're seeing in front of you. But doing all those things will help you when you then start diving more into trying to create those wonderful characters you have in your head. Because if you can start drawing the things that you're actually seeing in front of you, it'll help you be able to draw what's in your imagination better. Keep practicing, don't judge it too soon. I'm saying that to myself too. Don't judge your art too soon. Stick with it. And maybe the first attempt you make at something that's not going to be your final and usually it's a good idea to keep going just like when you're writing. Sarah Mackenzie (41:10): Astrid, I am just so excited to see pictures of children reading this book to know that Flora is in the laps of families reading aloud and on bookshelves all over and I cannot wait. Astrid Sheckels (41:25): Me too. Sarah Mackenzie (41:26): Congratulations. It is an absolutely stunning book, truly. Astrid Sheckels (41:30): Thank you. Thank you so much. Sarah Mackenzie (41:36): Flora and the Jazzers hits shelves October 7th, 2025, which is next week. Go order your copy now. You'll be so glad you did. This is one of those picture books that you're going to keep even after you get rid of all your other picture books and you're just keeping a few for the grand-babies, this is going to be one of them. I can nearly guarantee it. It just has that classic feel that we love so much around here. You can find it anywhere books are sold or you can head to Waxwingbooks.com to learn more. Now, let's go here from the kids about the books that they're loving lately. Nadia (42:09): Hi, my name's Nadia and I'm nine years old. I live in Minnesota and I recommend the Ranger in Time series and my favorite one is Journey Through Ash and Smoke and they find a little baby fox and the main character is a dog named Ranger and he has a first aid kit that he uses to go back in time. Titus (42:39): Hi, I'm Titus from Kalispell, Montana and I would recommend Redwall because it's about animals and adventure. Lucy (42:53): Hi, my name is Lucy and I'm seven years old. Also, I'm Kalispell, Montana and the book I would recommend is King and Kayla. I like it because it's a mystery book and because King is always on the case. Hannah (43:11): Hi, my name is Hannah Chapin and I'm from Hutchinson, Kansas, and my book recommendation is the Vanderbeeker series because it has real life situations but fictional people, and it's funny and exciting. If you have any more book recommendations like this, I would love to hear them. Bye. Johanna (43:28): Hi, my name is Johanna and I'm seven years old. I live in Minnesota and I recommend Hector Fox since it's a story about friends, bravery, and they go on these adventures. Remy (43:45): Hi, my name's Remy and I'm from New Hampshire. I recommend the Grandma's Attic series. Why I like them because they're from, because they talk about Grandma's... There's Grandma and they're interesting. Sarah Mackenzie (44:07): Thank you. Thank you, kids. I love hearing your book recommendations so very much. Show notes for this episode are at readaloudrevival.com/272. That's where you're going to find Flora and the Jazzers and all of Astrid's other books, as well as a link to her beautiful website. Highly recommend all of the work by Astrid. She's just a complete delight as you now know for yourself. I'll be back in two weeks with another episode, but in the meantime, pretty sure you know what to do. Go make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books.