[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to the home Mrs.

and podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: My name's Phil and as usual I've got with me Rohan hating that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey good area.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very good thank you and today we are welcome to Miranda from the open home foundation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: This podcast is sponsored by Homeless and Cloud by Nabukasa.

[SPEAKER_02]: For some more monthly fee, you'll unlock powerful features like Secure, FLS access to your system from anywhere, a choice of voice assistance, off-site backups, and more, all configurable in the UI with no yet-mal needed.

[SPEAKER_02]: It also supports the development of home assistant, ESP home, and other open home foundation projects.

[SPEAKER_02]: Click the link in the description to learn more.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'd also like to give a shout out to our Patreon members, including our executive producers, Benny and Rob.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can help support the show and get early access to episodes, all in and add free feed.

[SPEAKER_02]: To support the show, check out homemissistant.fm, and click Patreon in the menu.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you can't do that, we'd appreciate a like, comment, or rating, or review listening, or watching us today, it really helps us out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Miranda, someone that does help out open home foundation a lot is yourself, uh, so, yeah, thank you for coming on today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, who are you and, uh, I guess what is your official title at open home foundation and then we can unpack it from there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure, so thanks for having me, firstly, I'm Miranda.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the partnership manager at the Open Home Foundation, and particularly at the flagship project Home Assistant.

[SPEAKER_00]: My main responsibility is the works with Home Assistant program, but I also deal with a quite a lot of other different partnerships too.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, I'm guessing at any time we see that, you know, works with homesteads, isn't badge somewhere, or we've had a few companies on this year on the podcast as well, from an ingredient to Zeus, who works with homesteads partners, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, thank you for reaching out to them as well for us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it is literally Miranda's stamp of approval.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's a lot more meaningful than like my personal stamp of approval, but show.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can use that if you like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, yeah, so that's obviously an important role and I do want to get into that.

[SPEAKER_02]: How, what's your journey with home assistant being?

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you always, I think, any user of home assistant have, and then transition into, like, working for the open home or, you know, how did you get here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's a, it's a little bit of a cliche, unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when we moved into our house, my husband set up home assistant, we had some smart home stuff already, kind of the normal entry level stuff that you would get, rain cameras, a couple of smart plugs, things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when we bought our own home, yeah, my husband set it up, he is a lot more technical than I am.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, he found it and put it in the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, yeah, something that I had to learn rather than, like, I went and found myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then at over a couple of years, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, got used to it, started expanding it out more, and then I saw that the open home foundation was looking for a partnership manager, which is my background, and it just felt like a really natural fit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I've worked in partnerships for a number of years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I worked in kind of sales and marketing before that, and then partnerships for a kind of fintech firm.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, this was the only, I was kind of, [SPEAKER_00]: slightly looking around and then I saw the job come up with the foundation and I was just like yeah that's that's the one.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was the only job I applied for and I just kind of went all in on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and the rest is history as I say.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's awesome and and you've been here I guess I almost see you're now because I remember when we first met I think it was your first it was your first week at the Open Home Foundation at CES last year or second week or some of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it was my first trip.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I've been there since November.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's just over a year now, since I've since I joined.

[SPEAKER_00]: But obviously the first two months were just like trying to find my feet and be like, okay, how to partnership to currently work, what's in the program right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to get my head around everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we went to CES, so you guys, and that was my first opportunity to really see some of our partners in real life in person.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I mean, CES is like, [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a baptism of fire, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: You go into the smart home section, it's like, okay, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to take in, so yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's funny because it's literally like, there's lights flashing at you there.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like everything, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It can be super overwhelming, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I say now to everyone who's going is like, take your time.

[SPEAKER_00]: like there's no, there's no way you're going to see all of it like you just try and take it bit by bit, go to the important things, bring lots of water, take lots of brakes, all that kind of stuff because otherwise you're just at the end of the week you'll be not able to string a sentence together, you know.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as with most Vegas trips anyway, so it's [SPEAKER_00]: It's a different reason, I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's standard real supply here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is, it's CES is a weird place, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, because it's, it's like you're going to the market.

[SPEAKER_04]: right in whatever country and people are like hey do you want a cucumber and it's like what right and it's like safe thing right where uh some of some of the larger companies obviously like they don't need to to pull you in or anything like that but the smaller the smaller folks uh do and it it's hilarious right sometimes and it's uh it's uh it's uh it's fun i i really enjoyed it and i'm looking forward to it again but [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it must be fun for you guys as well because like I imagine you're working with Mike's and camera's and stuff so they know that you're going to be creating content too so it's like these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah it was a bad batch like what we'll be walking past a random vendor and they would see our batch that would have media written on it and they'd be like hey like come over here like look at our TV [SPEAKER_02]: That's a nice TV, there's nothing we want to talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get stopped for different reasons, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because we try and have home assistant branded t-shirts and stuff when we're walking around.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was really interesting for me, actually, because I hadn't been to something like that before wearing anything home assistant branded.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you would get stopped being like, I love home assistant.

[SPEAKER_00]: My house does this and this and this and this and this is how I've used it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And blah, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_00]: OK, that's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It also happens outside of CES2, so we were in Dublin in the summer, and I was actually going back to the airport to leave.

[SPEAKER_00]: And some random guy just stopped me in the street, been like, I was like, how did you get that hoodie?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I'd work there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, well, the whole team have been here, but like, sorry, we're all leaving that all like, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Badgerese, you know, like, have fun with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, yeah, it's wild.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot of really status almost, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, walk it right, and it's like, can I get a picture?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, walking around with parlis, it's like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you're trying to be a power source.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're like, you know, you're like, or I, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I have had quite a few people kind of come up and be like, could we get a picture with parlis, please?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that would be amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, let me ask Kim for you.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm not as keeper, but sure, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny.

[SPEAKER_04]: Me five quid and we'll make it happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: You've served monetizing Paulus.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're a non-profit foundation, guys.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right, but Miranda's not non-profit.

[SPEAKER_04]: Moving on, but, you know, focused on the open home foundation, obviously you were part of that whole, like when they were splitting it off into Nabukasa, open home foundation, and so on and so forth, and then they decided that the works with program belongs.

[SPEAKER_04]: in the foundation, which to me makes sense.

[SPEAKER_04]: What was that whole process like for both yourself as an employee, but also as the works with program?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was one of the first kind of projects I had to do really is get hold of all of our current partners and say, hey, like your current contract is with an uppercut, so that the works of program is moving across.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we had to redo all of the contracts.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had to reach out to all the partners, explain why the contracts were changing.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then also the contracts themselves actually changed quite dramatically.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just got a lot more robust to be honest because because we're a foundation and it's a subject to lots of audit really, really high kind of due process.

[SPEAKER_00]: we made sure that that was a really good opportunity to just fill out that contract a bit more and make sure that it covered everything we really needed it to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's got, you know, super robust exit pieces.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you know, if you don't fulfill your commitment to the works with program, if one of you've done devices, changes, all that kind of stuff is written.

[SPEAKER_00]: super clearly in the contract and it's also about the use of logos and that kind of stuff is all super clear in that contract now too or as before it was maybe a little more loose so yeah and and it's also it was important to move the program across to the foundation because it's not a commercial program.

[SPEAKER_00]: like it, it comes up quite a lot in kind of community feedback or a lot of questions we get.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, aren't you guys just making money from this?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, because we're in non-profit foundation, that's not the point of what we do, and it's really clear in the contract that [SPEAKER_00]: the actual price for joining is basically just an administration fee.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's 500 Swiss francs so in not many people offer it in Swiss francs so it's about 600 USD or like 550 euros or so.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a post-it note with all of the versions like above my desk so that I know exactly what they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's that's per partner per year, not per device.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the the maximum we'd recharge people is just 500 Swiss francs per year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like imagine how many partners we would need to make that actually profitable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's assuming that you're making a profit off that 500 in the first place.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would spend going through devices or BAM, it doesn't even cover testing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't even cover testing of one device, one single device, you know?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, in all honesty, if you break that down to an hourly charge, it's not even for you to do your job to say, you know, here's the contract, yes, no, and they amount of calls and all that stuff, but not even enough to cover that, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: That's not a livable wage, by any means, right, and so that's, yeah, it's, I wonder, have you guys gotten any pushback from either the vendors or users being like, hey, you know, this is actually like, uh, [SPEAKER_04]: like a racket, essentially, you guys are trying to gain the system or whatever, like, and because to me, that pricing doesn't seem like a whole lot to be able to put a logo on there to say, hey, this is actually, and we'll call it what it is.

[SPEAKER_04]: The works with programs is certification, but it's also an endorsement, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: So, it's to me, when you're a commercial company, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we try not to kind of term it as an endorsement or like a recommendation, but it's more that we followed a specific process for this device, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We've tested it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We know that it has no kind of major issues going into home assistant.

[SPEAKER_00]: The manufacturer is committed to solving any issues if some come up, if bugs happen, if firmware updates are not kind of there and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in terms of pushback, [SPEAKER_00]: On the community side, sometimes people like, well, this feels like you're commercializing it too much.

[SPEAKER_00]: This feels like a marketing place.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we get that feedback, but then when we, because we really engage with those comments is we go back and say, hey, actually, like if you look at the maths, you can clearly see that this is not a commercial program and this is why we do it in this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: From vendors, it's like a drop in the ocean, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I had a really funny interaction [SPEAKER_00]: we were at the Zwave Alliance summit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they said to me, oh, we spoke to...

[SPEAKER_00]: someone else before you join the company and they said it's 500 and we took that as 500 thousand dollars and we thought maybe it's a little bit steep but we could probably swing it so let's ask the higher-ups and I couldn't believe it and but it just shows that like if we want if we wanted to commercialise it I'm sure we absolutely could but that's not who we are and that's [SPEAKER_00]: That really tickled me, I thought it was so funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, occasionally we get very small vendors coming in and the price point is such that we really don't want to discourage small vendors coming in or start to come and easy there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's really important to us because a lot of them come out of our community.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's maybe someone who started a project as a hobby and just wanted to make something cool and local.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't want to discourage people out of that either.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, which completely makes sense, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, it goes with the ethos of that whole DIY or like, maker kind of, kind of deal.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, and it's interesting because we're talking kind of on the other side of stuff today, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Rather than like, hey, here's how you use it here.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you do whatever, but on the maker side of it, like, I mean, if I really wanted to, I could go out build a device and say, hey, I think this fits the bill.

[SPEAKER_04]: Miranda, can you have a look at my, am I okay?

[SPEAKER_04]: And you and your team, whatever, [SPEAKER_04]: And great, you now have a works with a logo you can use, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, after the 500 Swiss Frick, V.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it helps them kind of develop too, right, because like, you know, if we have a lot of projects who come to us and say, hey, I built this specifically for home assistant, like, I knew this going in, is that I wanted it to work with your system.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we want to make sure that we're making space for those people, because they're so important.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I just want to let you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and and also like sometimes the other parameters, the program help them develop in different ways too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you get someone who's created like an ESP home type device.

[SPEAKER_00]: It started super DIY.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they want to commercialize it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like when you join the program, you have to also have like certain safety features.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to have FCC or CE certification based on you know where you are and what you're what you're doing with the device.

[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes that's a barrier for people too, but it's something that they would need long-term if they want to think bigger, if they want to actually sell it to the general public and make it commercially available, that's something that they need to do anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it gets them thinking about the general market mode also and developing that way.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: So as part of this program, obviously you guys have guidelines and stuff like that saying, hey, this has to be local, [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a guidance?

[SPEAKER_04]: Is there some of those things that you guys provide along with with that too to say like, hey, cool, this is this is your project, you know, maybe we can give you a little suggestion here of like, like in childhood, not sure if I think yeah, and that's what like a lot of my work this year has been like making sure that there's.

[SPEAKER_00]: that stuff is documented for vendors so that it's easier for me to be like, hey, this is here's a specific set of guidance for like your protocol type or what type of connecting you're having.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go and look through it, make sure you can fit all of these requirements first and then come back to me and we can start testing devices because like when I got here, I probably had like, I don't know, like five or six testers who just had a room full of [SPEAKER_00]: And like we had to buy an extra like storage cabinet for one of them because they just had so many devices that had been sent, but maybe they weren't really ready for testing yet because maybe firmware updates weren't available yet or like you know certain things weren't ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of trying to put the responsibility onto the manufacturer first and say, [SPEAKER_00]: Go and understand exactly the parameters of what home assistant, how home assistant works with this specific protocol.

[SPEAKER_00]: Understand that, take that knowledge to your internal team and learn it and then come back to me when those things are met and then we'll put you in for testing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're getting to know the system, they're getting to use it and, you know, it's funny because sometimes the engineers that I've been working with on the partner side, [SPEAKER_00]: They've started putting it into their own homes and then like, oh, actually, I've just found this thing on home assistant and I'm starting to do X-Line Z, and it's really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's really nice, that's really gratifying.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so putting all that stuff in clear documentation is helpful, but it really depends on the connectivity type, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a few different ways people can join the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can use an open protocol or open standard like Zigbee, Z-Wave, Matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: or they can have like a full local integration that they've built so Wi-Fi Bluetooth or they can join through something like ESP home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's kind of varying levels of, I guess, resource needed for all of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Z-way, for example, is actually quite an easy way to join the program, because if you're already Z-way certified with that device, it should really work with Home Assistant regardless.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe there's a couple of things that aren't an exposed and proper way on Home Assistant, or we ask them to put firmware updates available on the Z-way of JS library.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's pretty straightforward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Zigbee, for example, that's actually a lot harder to get ready for certification because most Zigbee devices in the H.A.

[SPEAKER_00]: will need like a quirk or something unless they're super spec compliant, which no one is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Zigbee's like the Wild West and in that way for sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're just, I'm really glad you're saying it because I've said it for years on this podcast about just, and don't even run.

[SPEAKER_04]: I use, I use both, ready to use SIGP and I use the wave and as do a lot of people, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And, but, but ZIGP is definitely the Wild West, like as you put it, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, there's a lot that that can happen and there's a lot that, you know, it's, it's, it's up to the person how they want to implement it, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: All like sometimes there's things that a device does, it isn't covered by the spec yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like you see this a lot with maths, like because it's quite a young spec still, it's still developing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes we'll get a device in, it's a really cool device, but like maybe one function that it has isn't actually available in maths yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, well, if it's a kind of main function, then it's probably not ready to be certified [SPEAKER_00]: us, yeah, if it's not available, then home assistant, then, yeah, we kind of pass on it, but maybe it comes out in six months time in the Magisbeck and it's supported.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of some of the brands we've heard, so we've got real link I believe is now works with our own assistant and Zeus as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen interest from other bigger, smartphone brands, like coming along and saying, hey, we're with considering books with our assistant [SPEAKER_02]: or have you been surprised by those brands at least, so I speak brands at the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the more partners we've added, the more interest it's been generating, I kind of maybe slightly naively thought that, once I'd got through a bit, backlog is to people who were already testing that it would calm down a little bit, and I could do more targeted kind of outreach, but actually every time we do a launch, I get a flood of new emails come in and say, hey, can we start looking at the badging and things like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the most recent one was Al Taco, who were a German brand, very, very well-established German brand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've had so many German companies come to us now and be like, hey, tell us about work, so they're in the system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really cool, it's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a surprise, you know, but because they're seeing someone else in the market who's so well-known there, [SPEAKER_00]: that they're like, okay, we need this too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe someone in their internal team uses home assistant as well, and it's sparked conversation there too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's some really cool brands coming in, some very well-known brands who have reached out recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say too much about the people who are in testing because sometimes they don't pass certification, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: is hard to be like, hey we're testing this brand and then maybe they never get launched because maybe it doesn't work that well, you know, or maybe there's something really intrinsic that's missing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we've we've dealt with a lot of cool brands and it's nice to go to places like CES as well and and kind of speak to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, brands that you would go to a hardware store or go to your local DIY shop and see on a shelf and think, yeah, that person's going to have the badge soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's really nice flying.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it's nice also because you get to see like, you get to meet some of the people, especially at larger companies that you might not normally have access to, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think like a like a boxer, a Samsung or something like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, [SPEAKER_04]: you're not just going to call like 1-800-Bosh and be like, hey, let me speak to your partnerships person, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, I mean, I have been known to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, which is funny, but it's, you know, yeah, it's my easiest person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of these people are there too, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: So you can be like, oh, hey, even if you go to the wrong person, they're like, hang on, let me go get the person, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And that happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, you know, we had a really interesting conversation with Ikea a couple of weeks ago, right, because they attend on the same events that we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're super into a system, like loads of their team actually use it and stuff, which is awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we are able to [SPEAKER_00]: kind of have good conversations and say, hey, actually this thing isn't working that well on home assistant, could you take a look at it?

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't actually partake in any works with programs.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like I know that I'm probably never going to get a works with badge in an IKEA store.

[SPEAKER_00]: Say La Vie, it is what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really, [SPEAKER_00]: need to be part of anyone else's programs because they're IKEA.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still really good to have a good relationship with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I need anything or if we find that there's a bug with something that's being reported to us frequently, at least I have someone to go to and say, hey, could we work together on this thing and just make it better for our shared user base?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because we know that it's important to them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: When, you know, probably 80% of my time is spent on the works with program, but the other 20% is working with partners who maybe don't fit that program, but we need a good relationship with [SPEAKER_00]: to be able to give them feedback and say, hey, the thing is broken, let's fix it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's try and find a way around whatever problem we're having.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I do deal with a lot of people who have maybe cloud integrations too, or who want to cloud integration.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, they'd never be certified in the work to program.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, [SPEAKER_00]: The home assistance is all about choice still, so if people want to be able to connect their cloud device to home assistant in a good way, we need to be able to facilitate that too.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's fair.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's a good way of looking at it too, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Because as much as, I mean, maybe the three of us on this call want to say, hey, we're going to have everything local, we want to whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: Vendors sometimes are...

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they're either out of choice or out of necessity, whatever it is, they will be able to provide that, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And at the end of the day, like, if I still, if there's one vendor that builds out of the best, [SPEAKER_04]: back you right and you're like okay well I still want that and they're like well sorry no no local for you and you say all right well I still wanted it home was just as much as it sucks that there's no local piece there right bad example because there are good choices now but [SPEAKER_00]: We had it with Jeannie, a while back, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have an active integration with Jeannie now.

[SPEAKER_00]: They did the Aladdin garage door openers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we had been kind of going back and forth through them over the past few years, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because they originally had a cloud integration, I think, with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then it was closed for some reason.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we managed to reestablish that kind of communication.

[SPEAKER_00]: And say, look, this is how it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is how open source works.

[SPEAKER_00]: this is the license you'll need, took them through exactly the reasons behind that open source license so that they could take it to their legal team and say hey the thing is really important actually and you know you need to let us use it and then you know that went really well they've got a cloud integration launch with us now and I'm sure a lot of people are using it so it's benefiting everyone as a as a whole benefits them it benefits us and the most importantly [SPEAKER_04]: that's cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, let's, I'd love to talk a little bit about your home and what you do from a smart home perspective, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you obviously got.

[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of access to a lot of stuff, but what does Miranda use at home and what do you like?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like what are some cool automations that you do and so on?

[SPEAKER_04]: I know you said initially you said you're your partner did a lot of the home automating and stuff like that of just how you kind of got into it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now have you now that you work for the open home foundations have you taken the reins?

[SPEAKER_04]: Have you?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of too fold, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So he still kind of vanishes the main home assistant instance in our house.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what I tend to do is I will expand on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I've had something new and for testing, or if I purchase something myself, then I will maybe add it in and we'll figure that out together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's quite a nice project for us to do as a couple as well, and be like, how should I whom look and things like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: But then separately, I always don't want to completely mess up our smart home if I've brought a device in for testing or something like that and I know it's not working well and it ends up the home approval factor goes down on that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I tend to have like a little.

[SPEAKER_00]: lab setup myself separately where I can use some of the stuff just in my office and just try out different things and mess around with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like our main tester.

[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to try and receive the items that I'm not sure of and then we get a second item sent to one of the engineers all like the subject matter expert in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The device type or the connectivity type, [SPEAKER_00]: just so I understand it better so that when we do a launch or something, I kind of get my head around the actual device.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I tend to keep those in my office and just set up kind of silly automations to make sure it's working or make sure that the battery isn't just completely tanking after a week of use and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, [SPEAKER_00]: later I might integrate it into our proper smart and kind of do it properly there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of like how we actually use it on a day-to-day basis, so yeah, we originally started with like ring cameras and just plugs and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now we really expanded that out, focused on local for sure, so we have a bunch of real-ink cameras here.

[SPEAKER_00]: we've replaced all of our ring stuff, just because most of them were so old that the battery level was rubbish and we didn't want to pay the subscription and things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, we used real link a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: We also have like a couple of automation setup for just, I know taking good care of our house, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, we have a problem with our boiler at the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a heating engineer coming out in a few days, but we've got this thing where I [SPEAKER_00]: If we turn on our hot tap, it actually the heat exchangers isn't working very well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the all of the radiators come on just because you run the hot tap.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like what?

[SPEAKER_00]: that's annoying.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a home system automation now which sends us a notification and says, the boiler's stuck, you need to reset it so that we're not just constantly heating our home, just because we've washed our hands.

[SPEAKER_00]: So things like that, I found super helpful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just curious, how do you automate that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what device are you using just yet that particular automation?

[SPEAKER_00]: we have some kind of thermostat on our boiler.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's above a certain range but we haven't tried to trigger the heating like so it's it's working on if our house is like below the threshold of what what we want from our central heating or above that threshold already but the heating [SPEAKER_00]: It's based on that logic, and then it will send a notification to our phones to be like, hey, your boilers stock, you need to reset it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We actually just also integrated it with our smart Christmas tree.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the Christmas tree is normally lit up in like a variety of colors, but it goes solid red if the boilers stock.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if we're not near our phone, we're like, oh, the boilers stock and we can go reset it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was very cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a bit of fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love that a lot of people use like blinking lights and stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, we're just going to do a whole Christmas tree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh Christmas tree.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's lots of work because the Christmas tree is there anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So...

Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really like, I love kind of silly little funny things with home assistant.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just makes me giggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I love hearing when like you have smart home fails.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's historical.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why, but it just really tickles me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like I had a vibration sensor in for testing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't really know what to use of vibration sensor for.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the only thing I could think of was putting it in our mailbox because then I thought, well, the mail come in or set the vibration sensor off and then it sends a notification to us as you've got mail.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then we've got this big oak tree out the front of our house and during autumn we had like a million acorns raining down and it would just hit our mailbox on a constant basis and like constantly set it off.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, stuff like that really makes me laugh.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and when I get stuff in for testing, I set small things like that up to, I don't know, just try and make sure it's testing it for, you know, I know it's still connected and everything else, but like I have, I have one of the newer car essences, so a little FP 300.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've had it for quite a while, actually, because we had it in for testing a long time ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: It sits on my desk and if it's, if it's the work day, if I'm away from my desk for more than 15 minutes, it sends me an notification being like, get back to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, like afterwards, if it's outside of my working hours and I'm in my office, it's like, why are you at work?

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, eat dinner.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I like doing silly things like that, just for my own amusement.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then we also have a lot of, like, [SPEAKER_00]: energy management and things.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's more by husband's area because he, that man loves to bleed a radiator.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've never known anyone who is so interested in radiators.

[SPEAKER_00]: He takes control of that kind of stuff and then I play around with the more fun things.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's awful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Miranda, what's next in your smart home?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, where do you really want to go with this?

[SPEAKER_04]: Or is it just kind of a project that just kind of, as you get stuff, you're like, heaps, it's a cool idea, then.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the really big things that I'd like is smart blinds.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's such a big, quality of life.

[SPEAKER_00]: change, I think, when you have a full set of really beautiful smart blinds, like obviously motion blinds are in the works with program and Eve motion blinds are as well, but we've got like a lot of glass in our house, so trying to figure out exactly which type of blinds to do and what measurements and everything and yeah, and then we have like normal vertical blinds [SPEAKER_02]: those aren't great to try and I was going to say are you thinking of retrofitting or going new like what would you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have I have tried a couple of things I have one of the Akara blind controllers but it it it works the vertical blinds but it opens the slats only it doesn't actually pull the whole thing across so I'd really like like a full set of [SPEAKER_00]: beautiful roller blinds that just fully come up and you can kind of do everything with rather than just like one small section of of it That would be really cool, but it's such a it's a big project, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and we've we've got some blind tilts as well, so I have the switch but blind tilts in our kitchen [SPEAKER_00]: But again, that's with, like, slatted vertical horizontal-brake blinds.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'd really love big, big, proper roller blinds like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, I've also been thinking about, like, stuff for the garden.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a couple of small things in the garden.

[SPEAKER_00]: Usually if I'm not working, I'm in the garden.

[SPEAKER_00]: Doing something, playing around.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have like an irrigation thing which is great from son-off, so that's just for a sprinkler, but um, like I'd love a robot lawn though, or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So join the club.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, you know, the weather here is so poor.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know like you think how often is it actually going to be used and is it a bit of a waste but like my the robot mop that we have is brilliant that's a big quality of life difference you know and yeah I love it that's that's brilliant [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think some lights.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've bought a lot of light bulbs, but I haven't actually installed them yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to automate my lights and hear make sure that they're kind of, I don't know, hooked up to like my general work day and I don't know, doing subtle changes if I [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned there light bulbs, no light switch that you would want to make you prefer to light or make the bulb over switch.

[SPEAKER_00]: Erm, yes and no.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would like to, I don't think it's...

[SPEAKER_00]: like wiring a switch in myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: I probably wouldn't trust myself to do that well and I'd pretty sure my husband wouldn't be happy with me just to be like, hey, I'm going to switch off the electricity and I'm going to play around with this for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe we need a contract or something to come and do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a switch at some point, but I don't really know what the electrics are like in our home.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we haven't touched it since we've moved in, so don't know if I will really want to mess with that too much.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was going to say it's a great PSA moment for it.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you don't know what you're doing on a electrical, definitely don't touch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like some stuff, again, just going back to the program, we have some switches in the testing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them have not been certified because they don't have overheat or have a load protection.

[SPEAKER_00]: So at least I know we had stuff like that to avoid, yeah, so it's kind of a bit of a mix bag on switches.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I would try some, but mostly we just rely on like remote switches instead and you know remote buttons and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And my, um, [SPEAKER_00]: I've spent some time with my sister and her husband recently because he has some mobility issues at the moment so like we looked at like having a switch that he can just have in his pocket right and and turn off different things from and stuff like that is really helpful and you know very easy entry level things to to try and get into right so yeah so that's nice and she just [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm absolutely really jealous of it now because I think it's better than mine and it was way cheaper than mine too so I'm like, what'd you hate that like when you're like, if the new models come out, oh look how cheap it is why do I spend all like why do I call it just don't wait six months like better than you're more yeah I mean I bought my robot mop like uh [SPEAKER_00]: three or four years ago, and it must have been about thousand pounds, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was before I joined the foundation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I was like, this is amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's brilliant.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so worth the money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm like, oh, they're like, the equivalent now is about 300 pounds a month.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you can't justify getting another one, because it's just what would I do with too?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's funny because I'm in that same boat where I'm like, I really want a new robot vacuum and mop, and I'm just like, and I might make existing one is perfectly fine.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's no reason I need it, right, but it's just so much cooler.

[SPEAKER_04]: I get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the other thing that I haven't really tried much of is Z-Wave.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not...

Z-Wave isn't a sorry super popular in the UK.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a huge amount of device manufacturers who will make like Z-Wave plugs or anything here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Shelley has won, but that's fairly new.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd like to do more with Z-Wave actually, because we have a house that's kind of long and thin.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a couple of stone walls like the one behind me and this is a real stone wall because my office is like an extension of our house.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think some of the zero stuff would be really, really cool here.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I need to speak to Agnes actually because I got some door open closed senses from Zeus, but I need the waterproof casing because I want it for my gate and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I try and hit her up and see if she can get one ship to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or I'm going to get them free, though, printed, like I've seen, even for the acquire sense, it's like just 3d print files that you can download to make them waterproof.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good call that shared and I've ever thought about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've been wanting to do that on my fence, like in my gate to go to the backyard, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, but I just, I've got the sensors.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've got everything I just haven't 3d printed it because it's going to say you've even got the 3d printer, like what's [SPEAKER_04]: honestly it's not even that I just keep forgetting about it like right now I just remember because you mentioned it I'm like crap I need to do that yeah and it's uh because we have a big problem where I'm at because our ground shifts right so what ends up happening is sometimes my door just ends up getting left open for our all of winter [SPEAKER_04]: Right, because my latch is crap.

[SPEAKER_04]: And if there's a ton of wind, whatever that blows it out, right now I'm in a good position, because my latch is more often closed, it's like stuck in a closed position, then an open one.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's okay, but at some point, I got a need of holding a fence, and I just don't want to spend like, I don't know, like, 12, 15, 20 grand, whatever cost to that, and it's so interesting to say that though, because I've never thought about something like, [SPEAKER_00]: ground shifts, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But like when you speak to people from different regions, you find all of these different use cases that you'd never thought of before.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like that's something that I really want to do with a program next year is make sure that like every region has a really good option that's in the program of a certified device and say, okay, all of the basics, like smart plugs, [SPEAKER_00]: I want a really good representation in every single region that you have an option for because like currently if you're in say, I don't know, Japan or like Latin America or something, you might not be able to find like a smart plug that's certified with us right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like China go back to the basics and make sure every region has a really good option for those things is helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy with battery devices, right, because they'll basically work anywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like plugs and things that are wired, you've got to make sure that you're getting good regional coverage.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good point.

[SPEAKER_04]: I never thought of it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I never thought of that too.

[SPEAKER_04]: I know Phil Law terms has issues with Z-Wave and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it sounds like you do a little bit too Miranda.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I guess we're spoiled.

[SPEAKER_04]: being in a part of the world here where you get everything, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: What would be kind of cool is actually like a, like, almost like a map, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Where you can go and filter down and be like, hey, I live in, use Japan as an example.

[SPEAKER_04]: I live in Japan.

[SPEAKER_04]: What's available to me?

[SPEAKER_04]: That's, that is certified that I want to use as a, in my home.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we've kind of made steps towards that to an extent, like not a map, but I'd love that idea that's a really cool idea actually, but we put a certified device list live last week, so basically you can go on to the works with website now and you've got a full list of all of the certified devices and then you've got filters that work by region or by device type or by protocol type, so if you know that you're in the UK, [SPEAKER_00]: or there's something that's worldwide, you should be able to find like all of the UK-based items or like all of the UK plugs because plugs are unusual here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then be able to just kind of see based on those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really happy actually that that's gone live because before it was actually quite clunky to try and go find [SPEAKER_00]: the list of devices you'd have to go on to either a launch vlog or like the actual integration page and then you'd see the list.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is kind of a good central way for be like, hey, here are all the devices.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's everything that we have definitely certified.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that also then helps because unfortunately, sometimes you do get people miss using a badge, maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that will be a matter of questions, yeah, like have you had any brands or anyone, you know, out there's, you know, using a works with her assistant badge and had to, you know, like, send them a letter or how do you, how do you deal with it?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a little joke internally, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, um, [SPEAKER_00]: uh we rent Dublin uh in the summer doing a big summer and what that was one of the questions from from one of the other team members is like well how how how do you deal with that and I kind of joked and I I was spoken to the microphone and I said they get a scary phone call from me and like that's [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a scary phone call, but yeah, I have to reach out quite often to brands who are using the badge, but maybe they don't know that it's a proper certification program and they've just seen it somewhere and thought, hey, we're going to use it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So those conversations are good to have because you can say, hey, look, if your devices do work with home assistant, we'd love to have you in the program formally, but until then, can you please remove the badge?

[SPEAKER_00]: we want to test the items first, we want to make sure that user experience is great before that's launched properly and go from there and then sometimes you get people using a kind of creepy AI version of the home assistant logo or something and it's like no that's again not not appropriate because it's kind of misleading the community right like it's [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the main thing is we want to make sure that the community have a really clear idea of like what we have certified and what we haven't and that that information is fully available for them.

[SPEAKER_04]: And are there are there people that still after that phone call that are still like, no, I'm not going to stop doing that and it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, sometimes it takes a little longer than I would like for them to remove the badge, let's say, um, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's some negotiation there behind the scenes of like, I like I wouldn't I would never I've never had to get lawyers involved yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: which is nice, but that's not outside of the realms of possibility because, you know, if someone's deliberately ignoring our requests and deliberately misleading people, it's, you know, it's a legal issue unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's also that matter of, you don't know what they're doing with, whatever information, you don't know, like if it's just some random person, that's just, [SPEAKER_00]: States sponsored something potentially they're there's a lot of stuff then that where it you know it could be malicious too right yeah yeah for sure it could be anything and yeah and it's important that [SPEAKER_00]: people aren't misled by seeing our brands somewhere and yeah and that's that's why we want to make sure that like on our side we can be just as transparent as possible with what's certified and it's easy to access um yeah that's yeah that's that's probably the the last funds out of my job is having to reach out to to people like that and kind of badger them to to make changes um but [SPEAKER_00]: The majority overwhelming majority, it's a genuine mistake, or it's their marketing agency has found it and thought, oh, we'll do this or something like that, so that's nice because you can usually turn that piece around and say, hey, if you want a relationship with us like cool, let me know, we can do that, we can build that and I can look at your products and everything else, so yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so for those makers out there, don't just slap it on there being like, hey, maybe that that'll essentially a phone call from Miranda to be, but maybe just reach out, reach out proactively.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's kind of a joke, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because like in person, I'm [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a very petite little woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a scary lady, like I'm not that intimidating, let's say.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like when we have those chats internally, it's kind of like an ongoing running joke now that like I must be so terrifying.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the best thing to just reach out to us first before you put any marketing together that's referencing home assistant, just come and check it by us first because we want to see it too, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you've got a call project, [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to see that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to see it on our community pages and everything else, as long as it's not misleading, cool, like, and we can share it too, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You tell other more people about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: what are your thoughts for where you want the works with home isn't programmed to go in the future?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like do you have any ideas on how you could expand it or what else it could touch in the smart home?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there's a few things that we've had a lot of firsts this year, so we've had like the first cameras join the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first, I don't know, specific kind of sensors [SPEAKER_00]: and no smirk alarms and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important to get all of the basics there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so as much as possible, I want really good regional coverage of like every basic device that you would have maybe as a start out to a smart home.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you've just set up home assistant, hopefully the works with program would give you a really good way to be like, okay, I know these devices shouldn't be difficult to integrate.

[SPEAKER_00]: they should just work out the box and yeah that's a really good start point before them maybe you build up to being more of a power user.

[SPEAKER_00]: So regional coverage is really really important and basic device types.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then again I'd really like to add some more unusual stuff in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So things like I don't know [SPEAKER_00]: pool vacuums or lawns and stuff like that stuff that's kind of more interesting or more unusual, more like new to market that would be super cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love some really fun lighting too just because I think it's so visual and I think a lot of people enter the smart home market like that and it's a way to involve your whole home, your whole family because [SPEAKER_00]: like cool lighting for their kids, or for their kids' rooms, and that's really nice to be able to build out the program with more fun stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we had one that's just been certified from Apollo is their new Christmas decoration.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the first Christmas decoration that's been certified within the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, stuff like that is always nice, but it's a balance, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Of getting all these basics, and then, [SPEAKER_00]: rounding out with other things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing that, again, I didn't necessarily expect, but when we speak to manufacturers, we get a little bit of an early glimpse into what they're bringing to market.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I can go to the product team and say, hey, this thing is happening in the market and it's happening in six to 12 months' time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to be able to support that piece?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a way to actually do this function yet, or where is it on our roadmap?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do [SPEAKER_00]: Because we know that if partners coming out with it, the rest of the market will follow and then that we know that there'll be a community need for it It's not it's not to appease partners.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more to be like trying to think ahead of what's the community going to want in 12 months time [SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting because, yeah, really like home assistant has always been reactionary, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like a device comes out or someone is using, oh, from this manufacturer, okay, I'm going to build this integration to work with that device.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now you know, before the device is landed, we can actually get home assistant in a position to be ready to support that type of device, you know, that group of stuff coming in to the market in preparation for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is, that's actually a really good use case.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, sometimes it's not just the works with programme, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's sometimes manufacturers will reach out to us and say, hey, we know that there's an integration that we have with you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a new product that's coming out, maybe it's all under NDA right now, or, I don't know, there's something happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to be able to talk to you about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do we start facilitating that conversation?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that, again, that's one of my [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if an NDN needs to be signed, it's not going to hammer in to any issues, but also that we get first eyes on it and think, actually, okay, how can we start, you know, do we need to involve one of the community maintainers with it?

[SPEAKER_00]: If the integration is actively maintained by a contributor, or to involve our own team too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's a really cool thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I wasn't expecting out of this role necessarily.

[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it sounds like if there's a community like let's say I own the integration for I don't know the next newkey lock as an example, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And newkey's coming in and saying, hey, you know Miranda, we've got this cool new functionality coming out.

[SPEAKER_04]: So then as a community member, you'd come reach out to me and be like, hey, saying Sunday.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then newkey's got this thing coming.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, how are you going?

[SPEAKER_04]: Is it something like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: So with Nuki, because there are works with partner, any integration, should be maintained by them, Nuki, Nuki works by a matter, so that's kind of by the bias.

[SPEAKER_00]: If it were someone else, then yeah, in NDAs, we don't, we don't like to push on maintainers and having to sign legal agreements, that's not our bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: take that burden on, and if there needs to be an NDA signed, it's done by our team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, that's kind of, it's harder to manage in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we've ever had the need for that from a community standpoint, but we have had community maintainers who have also come the other way and said, hey, the manufacturer, I maintain the integration for, have reached out to me, and they have some kind of change that they're making, can't, like, [SPEAKER_00]: help me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we absolutely get involved there and we try and make sure that these conversations are really fruitful and positive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's again very gratifying when a manufacturer will actively engage with the community and and understand how important it is, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is very neat.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are only brands that you've seen working with, I mean, this is an either within the program of the works of the program or out of the program that you've been surprised by.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, for example, for me, I was surprised to say this year, L.J.

[SPEAKER_02]: working on their own integration into home assistant.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been using a custom component, created by community member and now it's like LG themselves, creating integration into home assistant for their LG thing CU devices.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or if any brands that you'd like to see in the list and go, oh, I'm actually surprised they're doing that themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've definitely had some kind of interesting use cases where people are using it in turn and leave themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: First, so motion blinds is a really interesting one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jerry at motion blinds is super into the community, he's very well integrated, they're very engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we went to visit them.

[SPEAKER_00]: back in April and they showed us around the factory and they use home assistant to test their blinds and it's not to test them to see how they work with home assistant or they do that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually to test how many uses the blinds have in real life.

[SPEAKER_00]: because their QA, their quality assessment is testing like how many times a blind can go up and down in a life cycle without breaking or without material frame or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're using it in a really interesting way like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's been super cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then some big brands have also said, like, oh, hey, we have our own internal Slack channel about you guys, and it's just about us using home assistant at home and talking about the different things that we do in our own homes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that, again, that's really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's super gratifying to work at a project where people just engage so passionately with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've never worked in a place where [SPEAKER_00]: People just have such engagement with the product and yeah, they just they just love it It's not product is it's a it's a project right it's it that's the whole point of it It's open source and yeah, it's it's so gratifying for sure [SPEAKER_02]: How do you find working for the Open Home Foundation, like I'm guessing, we had Darren on back in December.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm guessing similar to you, of just some of Darren, you'd be all working remote.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have a Slack channel, you're on regular video conferences, how's day-to-day life for the Open Home Foundation?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very strange in the best way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the way I would describe it, because, again, it's very unusual to work somewhere where people just love the way it works so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of us come from, like, I don't know, I guess a traditional corporate background where you're maybe building something that you don't [SPEAKER_00]: love all of that much and um it's just a job but here it's it's not really just a job for anyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: We hire a lot from our own community so everyone who works here is so talented and so knowledgeable and it's really nice to be able to just go out to someone and say like hey I have this problem with something and someone will always step in and be like oh hey I've done x, y and z before [SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes in, I don't know, in certain corporate roles, or whatever, if you reached out for help, then people would be like, um, I used struggling or, you know, that's behind you to actually really shouldn't need any help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially, I don't know if it's a UK thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: but like the stiff upper lip kind of British business vibe is you should just get on with it and just keep your head down and just you know keep going and if you're asking for help it's kind of a sign of weakness but there's constant discussion in our Slack channels about about everything really and going back and forth and we very much build in the open internally too so [SPEAKER_00]: If something's going on, if I'm writing a blog for something, it's very visible to like everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if someone has some feedback about how it's written or I don't know how we've discussed one product or something like that, someone will come back and be like, this thing is probably wrong, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's nice because [SPEAKER_00]: The feedback is always helpful and always productive.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's never personal.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's never like you did the thing wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just where it's, it's a very, very positive space.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, my day today is there's a lot on Slack.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have regular calls with certain areas of the foundation, so like I'm part of the marketing team, but because my work touches kind of other areas, I have regular calls with like protocols, for example, because most of the device is coming in, are like matters.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy way, so I have regular touch points with the testers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then with product as well, again, because of that roadmap piece, yeah, and then the other thing is we have a whole working group for the work to the home assistant program.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, people don't necessarily realise this, but the documentation is published on the foundation website as to how we run the working group and how it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we actually like vote on all of the people who come into the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: manufacturer who wants to sign a contract with us goes to vote first.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like there are certain members of the work in group and we all have to vote yeah you're made to what that person should be able to even go into testing for the devices.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if they maybe have like a bad reputation within [SPEAKER_00]: A community that I don't know about yet or something like that, it always gets picked up really early or if there's a small issue with like maybe they've got three integrations where they should really just have one and that needs to be fixed first then those things can be addressed as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole like building in the open thing is is really positive I found it super helpful for sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's very cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: I actually didn't realize that whole like voting process and even before you get started for that, that's really neat.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you had any advice for any builder that's Tinker kind of thing, they're like, hey, I have this thing and I think it could be something that everybody loves, but what's your advice to somebody like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for sure, just reach out, like straight away.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of our contact details for the works with stuff is on the works with website.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a direct line to me, basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I can tell you, the guidance for exactly what's needed to get ready for the program, and kind of walk you through the steps of it, and also it's not, if something's local, [SPEAKER_00]: It should be straightforward, right, and it's especially if it's been built with home assistant in mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: It should be straightforward to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the moment, we're trying to figure out a good way to launch Browns who only have one product.

[SPEAKER_00]: So predominantly, we've had people joining who have a large product line.

[SPEAKER_00]: or at least kind of five to six devices.

[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes we get start up brands and they just have one device and it's like cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That takes a lot of resources on our end to do the whole contract, do the testing, just for one device and then a whole blog for one device.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not maybe as much to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: in something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what we're looking at now is being able to launch like three brands in one go, maybe they have non-competing products or maybe like, here's a bunch of products that have been started on Kickstarter and then now live for people to buy, gun vines and cool stuff, right, and do it in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, sometimes it's not a quick process and that's one thing I would say is have some patience with it because [SPEAKER_00]: As we still have at any given time, we have at least 10 partners in testing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh wow, 10, that's like at least so you've got three devices at least three devices each.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've got 30 odd devices that you're at least a very least year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes I can I can get things through testing more quickly because maybe maybe we've had someone in for testing and actually all of those devices fail.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we know that it's going to take them another three months to get them testable again because we've given the the manufacturer feedback.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I can [SPEAKER_00]: and then that's my next launch.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, at any given time we have, I mean I've got a list of hundreds of devices that are ready to test right now, which is cool, it's really cool, but it's hard then because you're like, okay, this manufacturer has been waiting X amount months to finish testing and that's kind of hard to manage.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we're making better loads of testing improvements, [SPEAKER_00]: specific testing process that everyone follows.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're actually going to be publishing that soon too because the community has often asked like well how do you have had you guys actually test what do you test for and yeah so we're we're doing like a sample testing process just for a smart plug right now [SPEAKER_00]: So it's got like all of the specifics of what exactly we test the plugs against and what are the parameters that we look for and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be published pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's nice to be able to be that visible with people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, if someone comes back and says, hey, this thing is missing and we haven't thought of it yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or we're like, okay, that needs to go in the testing protocol, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and that's really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really exciting.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'd love to know, is from a testing process perspective.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's, see, as you mentioned, there is this list does exist.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's that, you know, eventually you'll publish whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: What do they, what do they have to score?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, does it have to be 100% does it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, is it like a 80 or 90 or like a?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, so there's certain things that are required and certain things are nice to have.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if there is a, something that's required, it's essential.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if they don't fit that piece, the whole thing is rope fails.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a fail but it will pass if improvements are made.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here are the improvements and then a pass but we suggest some improvements.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's some nice to have stuff but things that wouldn't block certification and then just a pass and it's like, yeah, this is top to you.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, this is kind of always in flow, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's always changing, because sometimes you get a new device and it does something that we've never tested before, and we're like, okay, how do we test this?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and try to figure those things out and [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they figure out like what's essential on a multifunctional device and what's not essential.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we heavily rely on community feedback for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do some research into that this year as well, because if you have, I don't know, a sensor that's a, it's marketed as a temperature and humidity sensor, but it also can sense light, for example.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not really.

[SPEAKER_00]: should it have all three exposed to home assistant?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or would it be enough just to have temperature and humidity?

[SPEAKER_00]: In an ideal world, I always think, which should have all of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if maybe the matter spec doesn't cover light yet, then it's like, well, it's not really the manufacturer's fault.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's trying to toss up, like, what's it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the same machine I was [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we're trying to be super clear with that now with the device list that we have, if there's some function like missing or like not quite where it should be, we state that really clearly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, uh, I don't know like, uh, lock calibration is a really common one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't calibrate a [SPEAKER_00]: without an app usually.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's a one time thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you get like a nuky lock, for example, nuky a great because yes, you have to have the app to calibrate it, but you calibrate it once and then that should be it forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they don't require you to set up an account or like give your details over to them in order to do that calibration.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can just delete the app.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we accept new key into the program, even though they have that small app piece, but because it's like you're not giving them any data, [SPEAKER_00]: it's a one time thing and there's an absolute no way we could accept a smart lock otherwise because the math respect doesn't cover calibration yet, you know, so it's trying to toss that up as to, do you want no locks in the in the certification list at all or do you want some that have some small caveats that you know ahead of time?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And what was cool this is we had you're going on the podcast a while ago from from New York here and and he was actually very forthcoming with that he's like, listen, this is this is why, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like we have to have this thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's no way outside of that for calibration to your point, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And which is why I, you know, I, I, [SPEAKER_04]: I like vendors like that that are just like, hey, this is where we want to get to, but we can't, and they're just transparent about it, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And because sometimes otherwise we make our own assumptions of like, oh, you're just trying to get me into your, and it's like, no, I do the shit can't, because the spec doesn't exist, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's also about us being in the right rooms too, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we, the other thing that we do, I guess more behind the scenes is we go to places like the CSA meetings, so the CSA, they're the connectivity standards alliance and they're the people who run the Matters Back and the Zigbee Speck.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're in those rooms and we have a voice in those rooms to be like, hey, we won't lock calibration.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's important to everyone in the market and we're able to push off viewpoint there and say, you know, this is the thing that we want to work on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we can contribute as well to these projects too.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the cool thing about the foundation is you can kind of take the community's voice up to the, I don't know, the powers that be I guess, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: That that makes the decisions on these things, [SPEAKER_04]: Um, because, I mean, you community basis, large enough that, you know, throw your way around.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll pay it right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have such a, I guess, a line into, to the use of it is because our, our uses of vocal, but they really know what they're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're exacting the very detail orientated a lot of the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: If there's an issue that's being raised, it's a really important thing to listen to.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, I want to help this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want this thing to be available.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how do we do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's so positive and so helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like we see at the community meetups too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so we did one in San Diego a little while ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I spoke to a community member there, and I said tell me about your smart home, and they were a frequent Zeus user.

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, how's it going?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they said, well, everything's, you know, great, but have this one issue with blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, I'm seeing Agnes tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me what the issue is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like I wrote it down on my phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I still haven't know all my phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when I saw Agnes, I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me why this thing happened?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, hmm, not sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'll take that down too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll see what the tech team say and everything else.

[SPEAKER_00]: So having those channels communication is just, yeah, that's really cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And what's cool is a lot of these folks are also involved with the community, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: To say, hey, like they want that feedback, they want to make the product better.

[SPEAKER_04]: And same thing we had Agnes on the podcast forever ago.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, same, and it was very like you still get that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Even those uses a company that's been around quite a while, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And, and.

[SPEAKER_04]: There they are, you know, one of the probably one of the larger players in the smart products, but they still care about what [SPEAKER_04]: you know, the community has to say or what they want and things like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And Apollo, same thing, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Where they literally build products because the community wants X and they're like, okay, I'll build X.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, when you think about it, why would you do it in a different way, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you build something that you don't know that there's a need for, why would you bother?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you put so much work and effort into making something brand new?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not going to sell either.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's smart from both standpoints too, but again, like in the actual works with a agreement, there's a clause in there, which says you have to be a good actor within the community.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like that's kind of an interesting phrase and it basically means [SPEAKER_00]: like you have to engage with the community, you have to do it in a positive way, you have to take feedback as it's meant.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's really a good community player, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you also can't just turn something off, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just be like, oh, hey, actually this thing won't work over matter anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or this thing is going to have a cloud subscription behind it because then you'd get taking out the programs, [SPEAKER_02]: That is actually a very good close to have because time and time again, we see you know clouds shutting down or rugs being pulled Yeah around people's problem devices.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm curious you don't have the name names, but have you have you had to pull the badge from anybody?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we will be removing one vendor from the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not because of any issues with devices, particularly, but it's because they haven't resigned their contract.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I haven't been able to, I spoke with them a little while ago, but I haven't been able to make contact since, unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's actually nothing to do with them being like a, [SPEAKER_00]: I guess a bad actor or there's no, there's no device type issues, but because they're not covered by that legal contract, I can't have them in the program going forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to change your mind and sign the contract and re-engage, I'm totally open to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, unfortunately, we'll have to remove them from the program pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just actually writing up the announcement for that at the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a shame because the devices are fine, but yeah, if I've got no point of contact there and if they're not answering my phone calls or answering my emails then there's no relationship that to build and that's the whole point of partnerships is it's a relationship it's a back and forth, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they shouldn't be yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so, so I wonder in a case like that, then what's the, like, how do you, how do you communicate that with the user, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: That's because we have to logports for it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to came on.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is there one for this public?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to publish the show like we have to be transparent about it because.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's misleading to the community if we weren't transparent about it so there'll be an announcement and then on their original blog post where it's said that they were joining will put a banner on that saying this is no longer the case and yeah it will be it'll be super clear to users that that's happened [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're not, because they're not engaging with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't, if, again, they're not fulfilling the terms of the contract, even if they had signed it, because if a bug is being raised, and I need someone on the technical team to act on that, I would have nowhere to go with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: and then it just looks bad for home misses as well because then you've got something that says works with home misses on the tin and you have no point of contact you just get.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah exactly and it doesn't work with almost everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well you don't or I don't know if it works with home misses anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: They could have new products that coming out but again we haven't received any for testing blah blah blah so yeah and again one of the terms is that we have a support contact there and we have a technical contact so I always have someone to go to and say [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this thing is popped up on our community, can we jump on a call and get it fixed?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you know how we would fix it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's write a clerk for it or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But overwhelmingly, people have been super responsive.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we're having really good relationships with the manufacturers now, which is great.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, which I would assume would be the case, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like this sounds like a one-off, and it seems like it's kind of, [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like, like, if I was the manufacturer wouldn't be in my best interest, because the way I look at it is it's almost free marketing, right, and of having the endorsement behind that I endorse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in the works of program, again, because we've [SPEAKER_00]: We've managed those relationships from the start.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've set really good expectations as to, you know, if you're joining this is what's expected of you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes again, we have manufacturers who reach out because there's a community-built cloud integration, for example, and maybe it's really, really hammering their servers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they reach out and they're like, hey, we're gonna shut this down.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, well, we don't want that to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: The community doesn't want that to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, it's my job to jump on a call with them and say, how can we compromise here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you need it to do something different?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do I need to reach out to the maintainer and say, can we adjust something or, or is it to me to, yeah, or it's up to me to kind of go to the manufacturer and say, hey, [SPEAKER_00]: actually I think if you did it this way instead or if you guys take it over and maintain it yourselves maybe you could join the program, you'd have full control over it or you know let's let's engage first rather than just like hey we're going to shut the second down because they they won't benefit from shutting something down they might have slightly less traffic on their cloud servers but I get a lot of angry people in [SPEAKER_00]: them understanding our position and who we are and how we are run and then yeah that's kind of my job to say look we're we're acting on behalf of community and we know that this is what they want.

[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, we are very much over time today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Miranda, what is your goal for 2026 is a good one point?

[SPEAKER_02]: What would you be for looking back in January 27th?

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you hope to accomplish this year for the works with program?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's a great question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love full worldwide coverage for like a couple of key devices.

[SPEAKER_00]: So smart plugs, bulbs, switches, in as many protocols as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I want, you know, one for Zigbee, one for Matta, one for T-wave, at least, you know, in every region.

[SPEAKER_00]: that would be great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, I would love to walk to my local BNQ, which is a hardware store here in the UK and see my badge on a shelf, my badge.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not my badge.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's our badge.

[SPEAKER_00]: But see the badge on the shelf, like, that would just be amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got a lot of stuff in those little stickers, I think those pop out stickers that advertise something, like to get your attention on [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'd love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then a couple of kind of interesting new weird, weird and wonderful products, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So something innovative, something kind of wacky, joining the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've launched 12 partners this year, so basically one a month.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to increase that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there's a couple of good goals there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're great girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for talking to us today.

[SPEAKER_02]: If anyone has any questions, where can they reach out to you?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing you're in the discord hanging out on the floor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I am in discord.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not great at the forums.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I check every launch blog pretty regularly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we have a, [SPEAKER_00]: you know partner at openhomefoundation.org email so you can just email me there all of the details are on the works with specific website and yeah and I do live in places too so I look on Reddit a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: just checking out what people are saying about certain devices, either looking for new partners to join or good recommendations from the community, or what to be avoiding, too, if there's something that constantly has issues, then I take that into consideration, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I'm always looking around, but yeah, I'm on discord, you can usually find me there.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, thank you so much for really appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to share your home's isn't journey or come on as a guest, reach out to us at feedback at haspodcast.io.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's HASSpodcast.io.

[SPEAKER_03]: The home assistant podcast is hosted by Phil Hartdoren and myself, Rohan Keremandi.

[SPEAKER_03]: For links to topics we discussed today, check out ur show notes on haspodcast.io.