Hello there you are watching Brutally Honest a while podcast.

This is episode 11.

This week we've got Devalen, we've got Dalerin Gaming, we have Lance from the comeback Kids.

Fantastic show today.

Spoiler alert, I'm recording this after we got done.

I wanted to let you know that the format this week has been adjusted after some feedback.

By the way, comment below about anything related to the show or what was said.

It helps a ton, but I wanted this episode to be a bit more natural in terms of how conversation flowed, how it felt, and I would like to think that we nailed it.

Let me know what you think below.

If everything feels a bit more like a podcast, like a round table, like that conversation I mentioned instead of just blobbing questions from one guest to the next.

Appreciate you enjoy the episode and I'll see you on the other side.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Brutally Honest the Wow podcast.

This is episode 11.

We are deep into the double digits now, but I'm joined today by three incredible guests as per usual.

But before we get to them, I think we can all agree that 12.0 is right around the corner.

Today is Sunday as of this recording.

So for North America, we're two days away.

And this is not your typical normal pre patch.

I know they're all different, of course, but this is literally changing how a lot of us approach and play Wow and not just how things are tuned.

It's more than just a pruning.

But before we get into that, of course, I'm not going to be reading patch notes and whatnot, but I do want to.

I do want to introduce my guests this week and we're going to start with Dao here.

Who Dao?

Correct me if wrong, but you are a mythic grader, Mythic plus guy.

You love pushing keys.

At least you know, a portion of the season I'm in.

I'm interested to hear your take on things this week because you know, not everyone in this call is a high level mythic plus player or you know, 8 out of eight and mythic and whatnot.

And I think having a little bit of not a clash necessarily, but having a different perspective is going to do us a lot of good.

But thank you for being here, man.

I do appreciate it.

You guys can find him at Dalerin Gaming on YouTube and you can follow him on Twitter.

And of course, as with everyone, links are below.

But thank you for being here, Dal.

Appreciate you, man.

Yeah, I can.

I I can call you Dal, right?

Just want to make sure.

Yeah.

OK.

I don't want to be, I don't want to be presumptuous here, but thank you.

I.

Appreciate it.

That was better.

That was easier.

Up next, we've got Devalin.

Now Devalin, you're feeling a little under the weather today.

How you feeling right now?

I'm all.

Right.

All good.

Thank you.

Oh.

You're very welcome.

Thank you for being here man.

Devalin, you are a huge advocate for the single button assistant.

You've been making guides for a while now for people, gamer dads, gamer moms, people who don't have a ton of time, you know, disabled people who are looking for an easier way to connect with the game or whatnot without the the pressure of high end optimization.

Would it, would that would that be correct?

Is that kind of your your niche, your Ave.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

That's awesome man.

I don't personally use a single button assistant with every single character, but I'm a big fan of it existing.

I know it might be controversial to some of you people out there, but I said what I said.

But similarly, you can find Devalen now.

You stream on Twitch occasionally.

I think you've had one stream this year, is that right?

Yeah, yeah, it's Twitch in YouTube.

OK, you can find this guy on Twitch, YouTube, Twitter links are below.

But thank you for being here man, I appreciate you.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

And we've got 1/2 of the comeback kids.

Lance, it's a good day for Lance.

Thank you for being here, man.

You are just dialed in to that community these days.

You have been running your show with your brother, NZ Sky.

Is that correct?

For how long now?

A couple couple years.

The the channel itself has been a couple of years.

We have had a weekly show since February of 25.

Wow, almost a year now then.

Oh yeah.

Well, that's awesome, man.

Thank you for for sitting down with us today and allowing us to connect with you on this level and hearing your perspective on things.

It is genuinely a joy to connect with you guys and to, to sit down with people on on a weekly basis.

And I listen, this show may not be as fancy as yours, Lance, but I, I, I do appreciate you being here.

So thank you very much, man.

But you, you all do engage with Wow a little differently.

So throughout the show, I want you guys to jump in.

I want you guys to be don't just be agreeable, don't just be polite.

Feel free to disagree.

Feel free to I don't want to go so far to say butt heads, but I I would love to know different perspectives and whatnot.

But right out of the gate I mentioned, I think it was before I started recording the episode, but we do have polls running this episode.

Anyone who's watching this live and I guess I can even link the poll after the recording.

You can you can go find the poll below in the description.

But if you're live type in the command poll.

You can answer those questions, but we're going to get to those questions and we're going to get to viewer questions throughout the episode.

So make sure you answer that and participate.

But let's get into this gentleman.

But before we get into specific systems, I think it is worth mentioning again that patch 12 point O is, is a pretty big deal.

It's it's changing how players receive information.

It's changing how they make decisions and understanding what the game expects of them moment to moment.

So I think the real question is just getting right out of the gate is what version of Wow is Blizzard actively designing for now with Midnight DAO?

Do you want to take that?

I'm assuming you mean like classic retail, those type of versions or well?

We're going to stick with retail for the for the most part, but with midnight, with all these changes, this big shift with combat add-ons, the class pruning and just how things are feeling going.

Have you done any beta testing by by chance?

As much as I can, I try to do a lot in my free time.

I'm just running keys constantly, like just seeing what the classes are feeling like, what they're like, how they're going.

Tanks, healers especially like specs that I don't normally partake in.

I try to play them on live and then test them on beta, see what's actually different.

Mostly just out of curiosity, but you know, with some opportunity for possible content or just to get better at the same thing that can result in content.

So I do spend a lot of time on beta more than a live.

I kind of just abandoned my rogue.

I was like logging into play Assassination for the Mencius.

Instead of that, I'd rather spend the rest of my time on the beta.

So with your time on on the beta, like and, and Ian, even with the reading the patch notes and knowing the direction of Blizzard is taking it like what?

What kind of game?

What type of game is Blizzard building now with the retail?

Like how does Midnight differentiate itself from the War Within and even Dragonflate?

I think they're trying to go for obviously more approachable.

Well, the different class changes, they're trying to, I think not.

I think they're trying to broaden the audience of the game.

I don't think they're trying to shift it.

I the changes to like the in game add-ons restrictions to the weak auras.

It it feels like they're just trying to create a, a more approachable experience.

But also it feels like they're trying to make a game that is more engagement focused.

Not, and that sounds always bad, but I do think they're trying to make World of Warcraft as a game, something that you're engaging with more regularly.

And that's beyond just even like the way that they're structuring Midnight, but also other like seasonal things they've done like remix and other things like that.

So it seems like that they're not really trying to change the model too much, but they're trying to make it some kind of like a, a more approachable beast.

And I think that's the best way I could answer that question to be honest.

Devalen, from your perspective, given given what you focus on, like how approachable do you feel Midnight is compared to these other two expansions that we've had recently?

Well, from for my little niche, it's it's getting even better because the game is definitely going a more casual way.

Of course there's still going to be difficult content like doing a + 20 key or something like that.

It's still going to be, you know, something hardcore, but like it the for example, the single button assistant is going to be rolling even better in midnight because the rotation is less.

It's it's simpler.

I've even tested some of them and some of them only has like 13% average from like the difference between like a normal rotation and a single button.

That's a rotation.

And you know, with housing coming into the game, you're adding a lot of casual players who basically do you want to play Sims in World of Warcraft?

So of course they're also going to make the gameplay easier for those type of people because Can you imagine someone comes in to build a house and then they also have to follow a 12 key rotation?

It's not really going to work out.

Yeah.

I, I, I think you definitely, I think both of you guys, it's a nail in the head there.

You, you, Blizzard is absolutely aiming to attract more people.

I don't know if that's because numbers are bad or because they think they just, you know, they can reach more people by making these changes and the game's already healthy and it's going to be healthier than it currently is.

I don't know, of course, but I, I think that in, especially in the long run, these are healthier changes.

What do you think Lance?

Any any opinion on that?

Yeah.

And, and what I would say is I feel like for both Dragonflights and the war within, they played it very safe because of of what shadow lands was, right.

And I think I'm not even going to get into that.

We all know, right?

So they kind of were like, all right, let's strip the game back.

Let's go back to basics and then let's build on that.

Turns out talent trees have been great since Dragonflight.

It did over bloat things a little bit, right?

And then they kind of didn't do much to help that in the war within with adding the hero talents that you can still felt, I mean, enhancement shaman, right?

Like that thing is crazy.

And now it feels like, OK, we got the game to a healthy spot again.

People are enjoying it.

People are coming back.

Let's swing for the fences.

And that's what midnight, at least to me, kind of feels like.

Let's swing for the fences.

Let's go ahead and get these classes simpler.

Let's make the game more approachable.

I think they know for guys like Dal, it got you buddy.

You're playing regardless, right?

Like the high end players are gonna play regardless.

So let's maybe we don't need to design the game 100% for them.

They're probably locked in.

Let's try to bring in new people.

And that's what it at least to me, that's what it feels like.

Midnight is so far.

I mean, do do you, is there a downside with any of this, this style, this type of development?

Does anyone have an opinion on on on that?

I, I will I so the the comment that Lance made on the high end, a lot of them are locked in, but it's also not a guarantee.

There's always like at the high end, there's always a hunger for like more rewarding content, more difficult content, but but there's like a there's while it does seem like the high end is serviced pretty well, I think there are some gaps that are missing.

Like when you do see people like, why do some players one season they're invested and another season they're not?

Blizzard does do well, but there's some moments where they do miss the mark with the high end.

So I won't say that they do have a good portion of players that do like difficult console, like as long as raids and end game bosses are engaging and as long as we don't have any more like stone legion generals from shadow lands.

The less those fights more than anathrious type of fights, the better.

But I still think there's more that could be done for those high end players that are looking to get more out of it than you know, like a for example, just my numbers go up kind of deal, right.

There's there's I think there's definitely AI feel like they may be just stretching themselves a little thin.

They're trying to hit all the different, you know, player bases, casual, midcore, high end, and I think no matter who they focus on, there's always going to be a community that will feel like they're just not getting as much attention for them, I guess.

So let me ask you, let me ask you this, the kind of, you know, tangent off of what you're what you're talking about there with with Blizzard adding, you know, damage meter, cooldown manager, revamped nameplates, that kind of stuff.

These changes are obviously targeted, you know, whether it's targeted at a person, targeted at a problem, what problem are they trying to solve by integrating the stuff, by implementing it on their end instead of having, you know, third party add-ons do it?

I think the reason to turn and you know, make those add-ons a part of the in game UI is to try to create more of an even playing field between a variety of different players.

So everybody has access to the same tools, right?

Like let's say you do have a brand new player come to midnight.

They would need to learn what add-ons are, how to install them.

And while we've done it for a while, we know what's it like.

You know where to find them.

Whether you do it for like the curse app, curse for jab wah wah, or just the old school.

We just drop it into the interface folder.

A brand new player won't like naturally know how to do that.

Like the will, the base UI.

They don't know how much damage they're doing.

They have no idea.

They don't have extra alerts and flashing lights and status text telling them, hey, you're getting targeted by a possibility while you're trying to learn how to play your class optimally.

So it adds more ways to be able to raise the floor for some of those players getting into the game, giving them the tools and information they need to make sure that at least everybody has the bare bones tools to at least have like a fighting chance and to try to be competitive.

I think that is the whole purpose.

But it also is an ecology, man, that those add-ons have been impactful in how the game has been developed.

And to try to design A game without these tools is silly at this point.

Like these tools have been problem solvers and they've been able to give players more information to make more informed decisions regarding the play, regarding mechanics.

So they're just acknowledging that those tools have been helpful and are just integrating as part of the base UI because they know that they helped shape the game.

So don't fight it.

Add that in.

I think that's what the purpose of them being added as a base on UI is.

Devellen, how important are those tools for your neck of the woods?

And I I I'm not trying to put you in a box because obviously listen, I don't know you guys person.

I don't raid with you.

I don't run dungeons with you.

This is our first time really sitting down, so I don't want to be assumption.

I know.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

We play all the time together bro don't.

Don't lie to the people.

What are you talking?

About but like, how important are these tools for for for you and for people that fall into that category well.

See like midnight is going to be the expansion where I will officially say I will not be running with add-ons anymore.

It's going to be an expansion where I will be totally without add-ons because I'm going to have a bus warning, a damage meter, name plates that show what I need to see cool down managers, even with sounds.

It's going to have everything that I personally need.

And I think for the for the casual audience, it's going to be so nice that they can literally take an export string, throw it directly into the game and one of your favorite content creators made a clean, simple UI in the game.

You import it, boom, everything is there.

No add-ons needed anything.

Of course, there's still going to be some high end players who wants add-ons for doing this, this, this, this.

But for me personally, since I'm I will call myself at the casual end, I don't need add-ons anymore in midnight.

Yeah, I I think that's again what you 2 have been talking about.

I I think that's so true.

Dal, you said, I'm paraphrasing.

You know, you've been playing the game for a while.

You've installed add-ons 1000 times over.

I've been God, I love, I love and add-ons, by the way, aren't going away.

I know, I know that's kind of the running, the running remark right now.

But if combat add-ons, primarily we cores, of course, is, is going away in a couple of days.

But add-ons themselves are fine.

And I've done it for years now.

You've done it for years now.

Most of us have done it for years now.

But you're right.

When people come to the game and, and you know, they, they, they install it, they, they hit the ground running, what's an add on?

How do you install it?

Where do you find them?

What's there's a, there's a billion of them out there.

What do they all do?

So I, I think, I think this is a problem that needed to be solved.

And even if somebody like me doesn't love losing his weak auras, I see the purpose and I like, I can, I can see the promise behind it as well.

Lance, did you have any opinions on anything?

Yeah, I mean, they, they both kind of, they both hit the nail on the head, right.

But it's just imagine you're, you're just coming back.

The amount of comments we get in YouTube where it's like, hey, just coming back from Wrath of the Lich King.

I have no idea what's going on.

And I'm getting told I'm going into a, a heroic raid.

And we even as a matter of fact, on our show last night, someone brought it up.

It's like, I'm going into a raid.

If I don't have the add on installed, they're not even letting me in.

I don't have the fractal this week aura.

OK, why I don't get to play tonight then or I have to go and download it.

That's First off.

I mean, I'm sure you guys know heroic fractal, so I don't think you need that thing right, but that's a ridiculous thing and good on Blizzard for let's swing.

Let's swing, let's get rid of this.

This is crazy and like Dallas said yeah, I've been playing the game since TBC.

I've I've downloaded add-ons a million times the old fashioned way, Curse Forge, whatever it is, but we cannot expect this game to grow again if people are coming in and they're having to do a laundry list of chores to be able to play the game effectively.

It's crazy.

Yeah, I, I think it's one of those things to where, you know, you look at the four of us and you look at, you know, people watching this live and even the people watching this on on YouTube and so on and so forth.

There are literally thousands, 10s of thousands of people to wear.

Add-ons are just run-of-the-mill, no big deal.

But there are a lot of people out there that never downloaded them.

They're, they're brand new to the game.

I mean, again, I'm beating a dead horse here, but it's, it's definitely, I think it's healthy for the game.

Even if I'm losing something, I do think it's healthy for the game.

Do you think that, do you think that all of the stuff that Blizzard's implementing, like the, the, the damage with the cooldown manager, etcetera, the foundations that Blizzard is building on is, is this, is this just the way it's going to be?

Or do you think that this is just a compromise that players are going to tolerate for a while?

And then, you know, we've been talking about pulling the RIP cord, even we've been talking about Blizzard backpedaling a little bit.

Is this something they're, they're, do you think they're committed to for the rest of the game's lifespan?

Oh, Devalin, thank you for raising your hand.

Please go ahead.

I think it's the start of something like they are, they are starting out.

I mean, some people say that they should have started out even lighter, but they this is the start.

This is a transition where slowly all the favorite add-ons you have on Curse 4, which is slowly getting into the game.

And I think in the end of midnight we're going to see when you go to that in gameplay enhancement page setting, it's going to have so much more in there.

But this is just the start of it that that's what I think.

Lance, what do you think?

Yeah, it's got to be a play for the future, right?

And I would, I would say I sure hope if they're going to make this this big swing that they don't walk it back.

I think it's going to change the way that the game is developed.

And I feel like he's right.

Like if this is just the start, at least I hope.

Like I want, I want them to go further, make it so that everyone could play the game and feel like they could customize their game right out-of-the-box without needing anything.

I think that would be the best thing.

And, and there's going to be growing pains.

I'm sure midnight season 1 is going to be awkward, maybe even Season 2.

But though I think the hope would be maybe by Season 3 going into last Titan, the game is in a great spot.

But this has got to be a future play.

And maybe it hurts and maybe some people do leave the game for now and then they come back when when things are perfect, I guess I perfect, you know?

Facing perfection, right?

But you know what I mean.

Yeah.

Dali, you have any perspective on any of this stuff that we've been talking about?

Yeah, you know it sucks losing weak R Us we've built an entire package.

You know what I mean?

Like you, maybe there's a mechanic that you are.

I play it out with LA Rogue.

I got roll the bones to manage.

I got keep it rolling to manage.

I got between the ice to manage.

I can't miss a global otherwise I'm losing up to my drone.

Like my plus is a mess.

I need weak horrors for all the war within.

I'm kind of glad that I'm getting rid of them to be honest.

Just the class design is just feeling like my mental load is finally getting to drop.

The cortisol levels also get to drop too just from playing the my class's rotation.

That being said, but it also needs to recognize that by giving us a cool down manager, which is fine, it needs a lot of work.

The problem is we're going into an expansion where they initially said pretty sure.

I mean you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Didn't they say they were going to slowly remove reliance on add-ons?

I didn't think they were just going to come in.

Word.

They did say that and then they decided to not do that and exactly they're.

Doing exactly the problem is the tools that they gave us they are fine on paper, but there are also issues one the way that this is designed right now like the combat manager, cooldown manager.

It lacks agency that a week or it can allow you to make right the player agency to track anything and everything you need in the very particular way that you are looking to track it.

And right now, like I mean what you got like a bucket for bars, a bucket for track cool downs, a bucket for use utility or essential cool downs, but that's it.

What if you want like 2 bars, one for buffs and one for dots as a Kadak class?

You can't do that and that is something that I think they need to improve upon.

They need to not just let, I mean, of course we can just let add-ons do it right, because add-ons are still going to be somewhat in the game.

But if they really want to just grab a hold and grasp those tools into their hands, they need to do more on their like side of things.

Every point 5.7 and every seasonal update, there needs to be some sort of an adjustment, an addition, an improvement on the these in game add-ons that they're essentially taken over just to give players as much agency as possible because they are removing tools that players have been able to customize and in depth and use.

And it's fine if you're trying to like take more control of it, but you can't take away that agency from players.

That feels bad.

It's a situation where we can't really change how they're gonna approach it, but that's the least they can do, is like try to do their best on their end to catch up.

Yeah, I, I, I know that.

Of course, you know, with the class pruning, with the changes to to everything, the idea is we don't need weak ores, weak ores anymore because things are that much more approachable, that much more easily understood.

I can't say that's going to be true for every class, every specialization, every fight.

Of course, I think we will undeniably run into problems, but I don't know, I mean, not not like we can do much about it, I suppose, until people potentially find fixes or, you know, solve those problems with, you know, extraneous add-ons and whatnot.

Did you guys want to touch on anything real quick before I shift the the focus Lance or Devalen?

Good.

OK, so real quick for anyone who's just tuning in, maybe you didn't hear me at the beginning.

We are running polls this episode for the first time.

Amazing.

I know the first question that that that that ties into what we're talking about right now.

The question was what worries you most about the pre patch and the response so far?

50% of the votes that have come in, people are, are are worried about class and spec changes.

As a hunter, I'm good.

I'm I'm not too worried about it.

Things are.

Pretty simple.

Beastmaster hunter.

Are are you beastmaster or marksmanship?

Hold on a second.

I I play both and I actually find marks.

I mean they're both really brain dead easy right now, but I find myself even marksmanship's even a little bit easier in my there's like 3 buttons with marks instead of four with the BM right now.

What What are you guys worried about Deval?

And are you worried about anything related to the pre patch?

No, I've no, I think I've got to be the the guy who's very positive.

So far I've been testing the beta so much and I have just been positive, positive, positive.

I'm only a bit sad about the way survival Honda is going.

I really felt like, you know, it needed to go this rigsaw way, this way, like old school Honda and then suddenly he just swings out a shotgun.

It's like that kind of destroys the entire field with adding into a world.

But so far I'm actually quite positive about the beta on except that my my main is CTO on the tier list.

That's a bit waggy but hopefully it will be better with the blood diff night.

What do you what do you mean in enhancement?

No.

No, no blood blood diff night.

Oh, blood DK Godspeed, Sir.

It's yeah, it's so far a scale for like.

Well, people say it's going to be the worst tank in season 1, so I guess I'm going to be the only one playing it.

That's OK.

If you're the only one playing it, you are the best blood DK.

You have to look at it that way.

Dow, what about you are what are what are you worried about with the pre patch other than combat add-ons, weak oars, that kind of stuff?

Me pre patch.

I mean, look, I I play mostly rogue.

I play everything, but I mostly play rogue and I think this is the first expansion in since Shadowlands, Dragonflight and War within where rogues actually got some attention, actually got some changes.

You have no idea how like forgotten the spec felt for the last couple expansions during the alpha and beta and then just like got some had to be fixed promptly after usually by third season of an expansion.

It's so it's been rough right, Rogues have been pretty rough and I feel like this is the first expansion where they actually paid attention to rogues.

So I'm excited I This is why I delayed playing outlaw and what we're then 'cause I like I kind of like this like BFA return to BFA style outlaw in midnight plus the assassination and this bleach spread mechanic and some of those streamlinings settle to you where they were like all right, there's no maintenance bus you just cool downs and that's it.

So it's like, OK, at least there's focus there, not there 'cause we have bugs.

But excluding the bugs, I'm excited for Rogue in particular.

So I'm not worried.

I'm actually excited because my class actually got some development type it feels like for the first time in a while.

So from that perspective, because of the closet of play, I'm excited.

Everybody else though, it's a wild number of changes, usually streamlining, but still wild enough where a lot of classes are going to feel like they play differently.

I mean, you know, Beastmaster hunter similar, but like the the focus is completely different.

Survival, like the balance said, also feels different thematically and mechanically.

Like everybody's kind of more or less the same, but like a, a fire mage is going to have to figure out that, oh, I'm just casting fireballs the entire time and I lose phoenix flames.

That's not fun anymore.

So everybody's going to be a little Jarred and at least we have like, what, a month to figure out if we're sticking with our means or switching over?

What about you, Lance?

Any concerns going in?

I was concerned enough to stop playing shadow priest for the first time since like Wrath.

After their 5th rework man, come on.

Listen, I've, I've endured that pain for long enough.

I'm sure I'll still play it, but I'm not, I'm not gonna main it.

I don't know.

I really just don't like what they're doing.

I, I like Season 2 A War Within a lot for Shadow.

I thought that was a ton of fun.

Listen, there's always room for another hunter, all right?

Dude.

Hunters, mark this.

Oh, come on, dude.

You can't go wrong.

Marksman was my like side my my alt for most of my Wow crew.

But let's do it.

Can't do the hunter thing, man.

I can't do it.

No way.

I'm for the first time ever, I'm gonna play the new thing.

I'm gonna play devour.

We'll see how I'm I'm sure you know it has some problems.

I'm sure it will get fixed though, right?

They got to give it some attention, so whatever.

And we'll see, man, we'll see.

Make sure you guys are answering those poll questions.

We'll tackle the next one here after this next discussion topic.

We did have one viewer question that was captured.

This question comes from IM Burn Jay.

He I assume he she asks, will you guys touch on how the millions of downloaded add on heckles?

We'll shift the meta.

So I'm just reading it as a slide.

I apologize.

Will they use the single button rotation or will they learn the new easier gameplay?

So I, I, I of course, you know, with Heckley going the way of we cores and not being an ad on that, that is moving forward in midnight.

What are people who depend on we on Heckley?

What are they going to do?

I mean, I think single button assistant is probably a safe assumption.

Anyone have any perspective on that?

You you.

You're talking about that on Hikkelly, right?

I I pronounce it Hikkelly, Is it Hikkelly?

I'm sorry, Don't, don't lie.

I don't know how to pronounce things.

I pronounce it wrong too.

To be honest, I'm gonna say about.

Well when it comes to Hikkelly, well that's what I thought it was.

When it comes to Hikkelly I, I see the new thing that is placed on the article assisted highlight is technically the new replacement for that.

It basically shines up your spells so you know which one to to use.

It's still quite OK.

You can still do quite good, decent damage with it.

So I would say it's it's, I would even say it's a stronger competitor to Hikily because it actually shows you what key buying to click on instead of Hikily would show you in the middle of the screen.

Of course, you can still show you which key buying it was, but now you have to look down your keys and actually learn from it.

So I think it's a strong alternative that we have today.

So I just want to understand, I, I want to make sure I understand the systems that are in play there.

There's the single button assistant, which is just one button and you can either spam the button or now you can hold down the button and it goes through your rotation.

There's a GCD, it's like a 15 or 25% GCD cost on that, right?

But there's also the highlighting assistant, the highlighting tool.

What?

What?

What's it called again?

Assisted Highlight.

Assisted highlight to where as you're going through your rotation, an icon on your bar will illuminate telling you what you should press next based on what you're doing correct.

Yeah.

OK, so it it's basically, you know, heckly built into the game in a sense, right?

Yeah.

OK, that's not too bad that that's a fair compromise.

Doc F8's actually asked a question that ties into this.

What does this mean for add on creators?

I mean, I don't, I don't know, I don't make add-ons.

I know, I know we cores, of course they're not moving ahead with development.

So I guess for a lot of people it's probably, you know, just stat is just go on with their day and they continue making their add-ons with whatever API limitations have been placed.

But I don't know if you guys have an opinion or perspective on that.

Things are going to evolve and shift, right?

But I don't, it's not like they're dead.

And I think, I don't know why there's a big misconception.

Everyone thinks like all add-ons are dead, or at least a lot of people do.

I don't know who's spreading that, but we got to, we got to clear that up.

But I guess Tuesday's around the corner, right?

I guess we'll we'll all.

Yeah, we'll figure it out then.

A lot of the the add on developers, they essentially just have to pivot.

I think that's all they are can do.

And I feel like the atom developers that work on like the creative side of things that are not being limited.

You know, they're they're having fun, but the people that have focused in on like the combat and being able to, you know, organize information, gather information, allowed to create new tools, they're essentially like details.

The guy running details essentially just can put his skin over the Blizzard's version of their damage meter, but they can't really extrapolate more information.

So I feel like a lot of them are getting shafted with this whole like those are being more hands on with combat capabilities.

Yeah.

Again, I think it's, it's definitely something that will improve the, you know, the whether it be lifespan or the quality of life or whatever it is in the long run, but there will undeniably be growing pains, especially for people like me that just love weak whores, but not much I can do about it.

This actually just kind of transitions us right into the next topic about, you know, add-ons and accessibility and whatnot.

I don't, I don't want to talk about whether add-ons are good or bad because everyone's going to have an opinion on that.

I love them.

Some of the people hate add-ons.

I don't understand that perspective, but we're not here to debate that.

I want to talk about where and how Blizzard draws that line between player created solutions and core game responsibility.

Let's look at the damage meter.

Initially, it lacks it.

It's it's a bit lacking.

It definitely lacks some advanced analysis right now, especially compared to details.

While something like Warcraft logs, it still does a ton of heavy lifting, obviously.

Is this, do you guys think this is the right split?

What you can see and track and do in game versus what can be captured and seen in the back end after a pull?

Dal, you probably have an opinion on this.

So I think the implementation of the DPS meter, it is not as good as details.

I we can all just let's just be honest here.

Let's just be upfront.

They've been able to pull up details and seeing like how many abilities of your script, how many procs you're getting all that info.

It is so nice, right?

Anybody at high end is going to enjoy that information because it gives you many more.

Like you want to know how often a shrink of proxy, see if it's any good.

You want to see how effective a talent build may be and this gives you like the info you need.

I feel like for a lot of for a lot of players that let's say just do 10s for mythic plus weekly, maybe 12 is, you know, anywhere between casual to like kind of mid core.

I think the damage meters they got are going to be just fine for a huge portion of the player base and a huge portion of the content.

You could see who's hitting hard, you could see who's healing, you could even see avoidable damage.

And I think that edition is really, really nice.

Like I'd see in that OA, that mechanics avoidable.

I probably should be avoiding it.

So I feel like for a lot of players it is going to be serviceable.

The fact that it is going to be just, you know, if you do want that detailed information being logs, it's an annoying hurdle.

I think a lot of the players that do want that information will go through the hurdle.

It sucks, but I don't think it's going to be necessary for a fairly decent portion of player base to need logs.

So I guess at least maybe the way the Blizzard is looking at it is for high end players that do want that nitty gritty detailed info, there is logs.

So there is still a way of going about it and for them it's probably good enough.

It sucks that we don't have details, it sucks that we can't get more info, but it's better than nothing.

It's better than not having access to the info whatsoever.

Yeah, I I think that's something that.

I I kind of just accepted that they're going to be hands on on it, right?

I don't think there's a way to wrestle control from them.

So I'm assuming it from that perspective, yeah.

I, I think it's really easy and I fall, I, I fall into this trap too.

It's so easy for me to think that everyone wants to push keys and everyone wants to, you know, min Max to the extreme because that's how I play, right?

That's me.

But of course, as a content creator, so often I'm reminded whether I want to be or not, that I am in the minority for the most part.

Very few people in the grand scheme of things care about running 20s.

Very few people care about digging into logs and finding that one to 5% extra damage.

So I feel like, you know, I can sit here and I can, you know, whine and complain about man, I don't have weak oars anywhere.

I don't I don't have details anymore Sucks and it does for me.

But the average player doesn't care.

They don't need that.

They don't want that They they did.

It's just not.

It's not even on their radar.

You know, Lance, did you want to say something?

Yeah, I and I want to say I would love to know the percentage of people who actually look at details for more than maybe just DPS or or HPS.

I I don't think it's very high.

Maybe they're in a mythic plus like they're tracking interrupts, but I don't think I don't think it's very high.

And I, I do think they're damaged me know that they're implementing loud bare bones right now.

I'm sure the plan has got to be to get these things in there at some point, right, I'm sure, but I think I think it's got to be good enough for now.

I, I, I think the majority of the player base, maybe they don't give crap about that or they don't even know to be looking for that because they're not, They're enjoying the game on A and I find myself now I'm a lot more casual now.

I log in for my raid I I'll do a 10 every once in a while, but the most part I'm the casual guy.

I'm logging in.

I'm not digging into my logs anymore, man.

I'm not looking at details and seeing how many trinket.

I just don't have the time.

I'm logging in for fun and I'm sure there was a time when I did all these things.

I don't have the time anymore to to really do these things.

I.

Don't want to talk over any of you guys so forgive me, but I you, you just said a keyword there, the keyword being fun because obviously subjective term blah blah blah.

Because you know, we people can make an argument.

Well, it's fun for me to not have to worry about, you know, add-ons and not to have to worry about blah blah blah.

Whereas for someone like me, the fun that I derive from the game is that that high level optimization, pushing keys, you know, finding that extra damage, making sure that I'm top performer, etcetera, etcetera.

But again, that's me.

Like I'm, I, I, I, I know I'm not ignorant to the fact that I am just one, you know, with little tiny drop in the bucket.

I wouldn't.

No, no, no, no, I wouldn't go that far.

Definitely not.

Not everyone could be a top dog, OK, some people.

The, the, that dog's got it.

Some of us are little dogs, you know, we're in World of Warcraft.

We're the little dogs and.

I'm old, I'm washed.

Up.

No way bro, I I see your gameplay you're killing it.

Devallon what?

What do you think?

Devallon Well, it's, it's a fun mix you have in here with us all us because, but I mean, the highest key I've done this experience, this +5.

And then a lot of people probably laugh at that and say, OK, that's not too high.

And that's, I mean, that's just the end.

I am in, I'm having fun.

I'm playing with my Guild.

We just have fun in the +5 and then we go home and drink some soda.

So personally, personally, for me, having this damage media, it's it's funny because I just did a post about it that Oh my God, see, there's no damage media.

It's amazing.

It shows exactly what I need.

That comment section, you don't want to go into that because it's, it's mad.

Like people are so angry.

They're, they're like, you don't know what you need.

You we need so much more.

And I'm like, but it has what I need.

So I, I, yeah, for me it's, it's, it has what I need because I I just want to see right now, am I doing more damage than my guilt mates or am I doing less damage than my guilt mates?

Yeah.

I mean, that's, that's a obviously a very fair take in that when someone logs into the game, whether they're logging onto a, you know, fresh character and you know, the character they've been playing for 20 years.

If they don't, if they're not pushing keys, if they're not in heroic or mythic raiding, what does it matter?

They have they, like you said, they, you have what you need.

Even more so in some cases.

And anyway, I, I don't, I don't want to talk over you guys, but I don't know if anyone had any perspective on what, what we've been talking about here before we move on to the next question.

I think it comes back down to player agency, whether it is something you need or don't need, but it's just it's a tool that we've had for like a while.

Like details have been around for a while.

So now an expansion is gone.

It's just whether it is somebody who uses that tool or not, whether it's somebody who does push high end content or not, that player agency to look up that more detailed information that's readily available in front of you.

You are removing player agency with the changes to these tools.

So it is just going to be someone that Blizzard specifically, if they want to be hands on on it, they got to take more responsibility in all these changes.

And I think that player agency is what really a lot of players dislike about this whole these these tools, they're not quite exactly what we used to have.

So it's like, why were you getting a worse version, right?

I mean, do you think that?

Blizzard comes from.

I I I agree with you.

Do you think that Blizzard can maintained?

Do do you think that they're in a position, do do you think that a year, a decade from now that they're going to keep up with all, all, all of these trends and expectations and stuff they put, put, put place on themselves?

I'm not a fortune teller, I just press roll the bones and I gamble when I play wild.

That being said, they're going to have to, but can they do it?

I guess they have to.

I mean, you, you, you just said it, right.

They have to unless they say, you know what, never mind.

You guys can have your toys, you know, take your toys back.

It's fine.

Because yeah, I think they have to if they're, if they're they have to if, if they're accepting that responsibility until they're willing to give it back if that ever comes again.

You're right.

They they have to.

Do you think?

Go ahead.

It's important to look at like intention, right?

The intention is to definitely eventually, I'm sure eventually get it there, right?

And I, I hope so.

And, and Dow, you're right, agency is important because while maybe I don't, or, or, you know, other players maybe don't want to look at every single little thing, you don't want players who do want to look at that to not have it because that what now I'm selfish, right?

Because what I, I don't want to play at the highest level.

I, I, I got to make your game worse.

I don't want that either.

I think the hope would be for midnight is get it into a, a service, a serviceable spot so that it's workable.

And since season 1's going to be tough, maybe, maybe season 1 might be tough boys.

And I don't know, I'm not a fortune teller either.

Maybe it's tough.

I think, and I think I, I, I heard on one of the other shows like season 2 is probably going to be the juice.

Yeah, that's why I can't remember who said it.

Be right.

I think it was the last episode, but I want to circle back to something you just said, Lance.

It is, is serviceable enough.

Like like is, is it OK that we're we kind of are being forced to accept things just the way that they are, like in the state that it's going to launch is?

I mean, it's OK.

Like we have to, we don't have much, we don't have a choice, but is that OK?

Depends on who you're asking.

Sure.

Or someone like me and maybe Davlin, I would say we're going to be all right.

We're gonna enjoy it, man Someone like Dow, maybe he's gonna suffer a little bit season 1 and, and until they get everything fixed.

But I, I, for me, it's exciting that they're just, they're trying, they're trying like let's take back, let's try to take back control.

Let's try to, let's try to shape this game in a different way.

And, and you know what the same old, same old maybe is is not good enough.

And some of the, the complaints I've heard about the War Within is like, it's Dragonflight 2 point O, it's very safe.

Like, yeah, it's it's a fine expansion, but it's not.

There's nothing groundbreaking to it.

Yeah, I would, I would say the war within for me is a very forgettable experience.

I don't want to get, I haven't hated it.

I'm not, you know, I'm obviously logging in, I'm engaged, I'm making a Dagon podcast.

But for me it's just been very forgettable.

I I don't know if you guys feel the same way.

I've loved every second of it.

But that's what my community is insane.

Our community has been amazing.

I love what we've got going on and they've definitely made it much better than maybe the expansion itself is.

But yeah, I, I think it, it's a very safe expansion, right?

Does anyone else want to touch on that or push back on that?

I felt that way about Dragonfly as a safe expansion.

That one just felt like forgettable.

But WAR with them I think has been, for me at least, a better experience.

Maybe.

Like season 1 for Mythic Plus was a little odd 'cause there's just not enough change, but season 2 was a banger.

Season 2 was pretty enjoyable.

But yeah, the only reason I'm not logging into WAR with the Now is 'cause you know, the beta outlet just plays much better and at least I prefer it.

The BFA version or closer to BFA version.

Super nice, but I yeah, I I don't think for me more within was that bad, but I could see why somebody would say it.

I think that Bob definitely has had lower points world of degenerate.

That's another one actually lands up.

Come on man, come on the place.

Marksmanship 4 piece HFC Yeah.

Outlaw wasn't a thing then bro, you got to cut him some slack.

He had to play.

Unbelievable.

I can't believe he just said that.

But that was an expansion where, if it wasn't for my community at the time, doing the 5511 dozes, we did as regular as we did.

That was a lot of fun.

But yeah, I mean, hanging around in trash ran and you Garrison.

Yeah.

Although if you ask my GM about it, he thought Wild was the best because raids were some of the best out there so he'll fight before it.

WAD is definitely one of those expansions to where it suffers from the fact that we were what, 14 months we were stuck in HFC.

So it left a lot of, and rightfully so, it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

I want I want to ask the $1,000,000 question, but before I move on, did anyone want to touch on anything that was just discussed?

I just want to leave a comment quick.

I think for me, The War Within has probably been my favorite expansion I've played since 2003 fall, you know, when they had the beta vanilla and I know a lot of people would say revelation is the best one.

Bernie crusade is the best one and you know, it's a trickle one.

But I think this one for me has been the best one.

And again, I think also I should say like it depends on the community you had.

Like I had a great community this year so it was fun, but I just feel like this expansion has been so again, here comes the casual guy.

It's been so casual friendly.

It's been so like there's something for everyone.

There's delves, there's dungeons, there's PvP, there's solar rated battlegrounds.

That's something I've been yelled about for 10 years.

Like, you know, I just wanted that thing and now I have what I need.

So for me, I feel I feel like this is a good one.

I think that's a that's a fantastic point is, you know, for you, it's been a great experience because of all these things you just said.

And again, it just reminds me and it reminds all of us the fact that we're all playing the same game, but man, we're playing it so differently.

In a lot of cases.

We're all logging in for different reasons, different people, different whatever.

And I look at The War Within and may I have not been a fan of fan of dungeon design.

I have not rated this entire expansion.

I've taken a big break from rating.

So I haven't been involved in that aspect of the game.

I'm getting back into rating with midnight.

Very excited about that.

As for Someone Like You, Devalen, it's one of those things to where you know, you're able to make guides on a tool that is hugely helpful for so many people.

You just said you had a great time with a great community, you know, this past year, year and a half.

I mean, that stuff definitely makes a difference.

And so I, I, I, I get where you're coming from is all I'm trying to say, of course.

Actually, I I didn't want to bring up one thing.

Delves for the win man.

I got full time job, come home to a baby, but I could still log in 20 minutes, do a tier 11 real quick and I'm still ready to do my heroic great every week.

And listen, I'm not the best player, but I can keep up.

Still, I can keep up because of Delves.

Also war bands insane.

Yeah, you're not the best player.

I mean, none of us are, of course, but you're still playing, you're still find finding purpose and that's fantastic.

I know for me, I only interact with Delves for the first, you know, few weeks just for PB, you know, just for gearing purposes.

And then for me, I, I, I haven't touched the Delve in months now, but I love the fact that they exist.

I love the fact that there are areas and there are tools in this game, but even though I rarely, if ever interact with them, they serve a purpose and they're so meaningful and purposeful not to overuse the word.

I love that.

That's fantastic.

So you hat off the Blizzard for for improving the game in these ways to improve people's experiences and giving people that reason to login, that reason to connect and whatnot.

Anyway, sorry I've I've been monologuing a lot more this episode so forgive me, but did you guys want to touch on anything else before I shift gears?

I enjoy the monologue buddy.

So yeah, monologue it all.

Right, $1,000,000 question here real quick.

We've been talking about add-ons.

So you know, we, we, we had this little tangent for the past few minutes about accessibility and you know, why we're logging in for different reasons and blah, blah, blah.

But how do all of these changes in midnight combat add-ons especially, how does this actually improve someone's gameplay or their approach to the game?

Like how does it make a player actually better at the game?

Or, or is that, is that even the goal to make people better?

Or is the goal just to get people involved if.

That's going to once again go back to who you ask, right?

It might help some people who don't have add-ons and who don't use them because they don't.

Yeah, they don't know about them or they just refuse to.

Sure.

I guess at a base level they're going to become better.

Are they like that's a genuine like, are they going to become better?

I mean if they're not using add-ons and they already don't rely on them and at least there's not going to be a learning curve or a change for them.

So maybe not better, but at least they won't suffer as much in season 1.

I, I don't know as everyone else, but for someone and even in my Guild, yeah, there's going to be people who probably rely on add-ons a ton who are going to suffer.

I don't know if they're going to be made better for it, but it's going to be at least the hope is that they change the way they're designing this thing, right?

I, I don't know how much they're doing that in season 1.

Like I've done some of these mythic plus dungeons I guess a little bit it seems.

I think maybe they should.

I don't know.

It doesn't.

I don't know if they're at where they should be just yet, but I would hope it helps people who aren't using add-ons already get a little bit better.

I don't.

If it's not going to help them, I don't know who it would help, right?

Yeah, DAO, what do you think?

It's a hard question, but I thought about it a lot.

And I don't know if the combat add-ons and the addition of them by themselves in a vacuum, I don't think by themselves, they're not just going to be like just the thing that makes, you know, raises the skill floor by itself.

I think it's it's, it's it's when you take a look at the entirety that is Midnight and how they're changing the game from the streamlining of classes, the changing of the mechanics within dungeons and raids.

So there's a bit of pacing.

So you don't need to rely on atoms to be able to play a class optimally and to be able to interact with the mechanics and do them correctly.

And then you add the add-ons, the in game add-ons on top of it.

I think together they help, but by themselves the add-ons, it's just a way for you just to get more information.

By themselves no, but it is like a whole package of what is happening at midnight.

Yes, they're a part of the solution in a sense.

Valen, do you have any perspective on the question?

I always look back at my dad who plays Wow in a year.

Well, he's 65 or something around that.

He's a clicker.

He, you know, he uses his mouse to click his bells and so on.

So the moment he got the single button assistant, his damage increased by 200% and by giving him all these enhancements in the game itself, it will now allow him to join me on raids, probably because it will tell him stand out of the fire where before he needed of course an add on fight, which I know he wasn't a fan of.

So I always look at people like him who clicks and who doesn't use add-ons and so on.

I feel like we are we're taking them and putting them here now where of course you have me now you have the casual players, you have Dell up over here.

But you know, still, it's like we we are lowering all the clickers, all the, you know, all the gamer dads and Mons, We're lower.

We're getting them up to like a higher standard.

So now we can actually bring everyone into a normal raid without, you know, fearing that they won't do enough damage if they do too little damage.

Tell them to use to sing about the system.

Yeah, so we're your, your, your position, Just to make sure I'm understanding it.

Raising the baseline, which is a good thing, makes you know, makes you know, introduces more people into the Pve community.

Low level mythic plus normal raids, you know, mythic zeros, whatever it is giving them an opportunity to, you know, acclimate, get comfortable, get familiar with it.

And maybe, you know, maybe that encourages, you know, a portion of percentage of those players to progress beyond that mid level, you know, plus plus fives up to plus 10s, maybe heroic rating.

In other words, if these changes are done well and received well, if Blizzard's implementation is on point, we could see an an influx in people in the Pve scene, the PV community, correct?

And and on top of that they also adding training grounds which helps people to get into PvP now.

That's true, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I think that again, to, just to kind of, you know, go back to what we were saying a little while ago, I think that it would be a huge benefit and a boon to all of us to have more people to play with more people in the mythic plus queue.

I mean, sorry, DPS, I know of your, I've already wait 40 minutes in a, in a queue for mythic plus.

But I, I think that, you know, the more people involved, the, the, the healthier the environment is, the more people that raid, the better off it's going to be etcetera, etcetera.

And you know, not everyone needs to be or aspire to be a mythic Raider or mythic plus 15 + 20 runner.

But I, I, I love seeing people find new things to be excited about.

Is is ultimately what it boils down to for me.

You guys have anything else you wanted to talk about in in that regard?

I.

Would just say, I mean, yeah, anytime you could raise the skill floor, that's going to be good.

I mean, I'm sure especially you all pushing the the higher content.

Sometimes, you know, someone sneaks into that group of yours that maybe doesn't belong there and being able to raise that floor so it doesn't hurt as much when they end up there.

It's probably going to help you too, which is pretty cool.

I agree.

I, I, I, I think that yeah, any time that people can naturally comfortably, I mean, it doesn't always have to be comfortable, but for most people, if it's a comfortable transition to to improve with that, that's that's a good thing.

Real quick.

Just want to make sure anyone else want to touch anything before we move on.

All right, cool.

So the second poll today asked the question when it comes to combat add-ons, you know what we've been talking about Blizzard should and the top answer was strictly strictly limit their powers.

So half the people who responded to this poll said that too strong get him out of here don't want him anymore.

I let the record state I didn't vote for that, but that's OK.

No, I again, I know we touched on weak ores a little bit there.

I, I get it.

I even I can admit that weak ores is an extremely, extremely strong tool.

A Fractus being the primary example we talked about earlier.

Everyone always brings it up.

Would you guys agree that combat add-ons limiting their power is a good thing?

Hell yeah.

If the content is designed or you don't need add-ons, then yes, but if they're going to have fights like Ovanax, I don't know how you're going to do Ovanax again without a weak aura.

That was a weak aura boss.

It was painful.

It was awful.

So as long as there's no more oven axes, that's fine by me.

You know, it was the last time they done a boss where they essentially just had like an in game mechanical weak aura that Otto assigned a player.

I think it was in shadow lands.

It was a fade scribe.

The doors open guy.

You know that guy the the Sabanas raid.

That was the like.

There was a mechanic where you had to run to the circle and you had to do this like other like beam line thing to get the runes aligned or whatever, but you had to run to the circle to soak.

Everybody that marked got marked by that mechanic.

Your circle was larger and you had an extra mechanical but you had to let you know that you are being marked.

It was the one time they actually added a mechanic that auto assigned players to like go soak a circle.

They need to do more of that.

But if you're going to make more fights like Ovinex where players are getting marked and you need a week or to assign people like because you only have 3 seconds to respond otherwise you wipe the entire raid.

The less Alvin axis morphine spice please.

That's the way they'll have to go about it.

Great points.

And I want to say thank you for explaining that fight to maybe people who who bowed out of shadow lands and didn't stay for Sanctum.

So thank you for that.

But I also want to say I want to bring up like it goes back to intent on Blizzard's part, right?

I guess the intent would be, yeah, let's not if we're going to strip this, these things back, intent should be let's not make a brood twister again, right?

Or let's try not to make a fractalis or, or these bosses where it's like, OK, yeah, this boss is trivial if you just make a weak aura and boom.

And if you don't have it now, it's infinitely harder.

Yeah, I hope the intent is that.

And if they do that, great.

I think everyone, not everyone, but people should be happy for the most part, right.

And but if they keep making bosses like that, yeah, you're just going to have people who are kicking and screaming like, why?

How'd you take this away?

And now you're still designing the game like this.

You can't.

You can't do that.

Something's got to give.

So intent, I think, is important.

And I would hope that would be the intent, is what I would say.

Have you done any raid testing?

Dow specifically.

A little, yeah.

I I believe and somebody can Fact Check me on this, but I'm, I'm pulling this from memory.

I don't have this in my notes, but I believe the Wowhead rogue guide writer whisper.

I think that's correct.

He made a video on his YouTube channel recently that was something again, I'm again, I'm pulling this from memory.

So I'm paraphrasing kind of piece mealings together in my brain.

But I think he made a video with something along the lines of things are feeling pretty easy in the rating scene right now with all the testing we've done tuning aside, like mechanically speaking, things are feeling pretty easy.

And I, I, I say that, you know, to kind of tack, tack on what you guys have been talking about.

Would you agree with that Dow the things of feeling a little bit by by design, but you intentionally because we don't have these weak ORS and stuff like that.

Is that has that been your experience?

For my testing, it does feel a lot of the fights do feel a little bit more intuitive, like seeing the mechanics and seeing the pacing.

It does feel like they give you time to react.

They're also starting to do a lot better at this whole thing where let's say there's like a soak circle around the tank.

The graphic for that is now becoming a little bit more copy pasted across different encounters.

So when you see that type of graphic, you're like, I got to soak that, you know, So your brain is starting to visually identify things a bit better.

It is a little better.

I'd say it is.

It is better.

And have you seen like the people doing like that Naru boss that weren't supposed to test for?

Yeah, the the floating one.

And then it's like there was like a bunch of symbols that popped up and then people had to line up and then it did the beam.

I mean, that looks sick as hell, right.

So it does seem like they're there are making things a bit more intuitively, like you could see what's happening and more or less figure out what needs to be done in order to deal with the mechanic or be the boss.

It'll feel better.

So I, I, I, I'm definitely in in the category that stepped away from shadow Lance Lance that you you mentioned that a, a a moment ago.

I, I stepped away after castle and Nathrea.

Sorry, team.

So I'm I'm this is my first time rating since castle and Nathrea.

I'm really I'm I'm genuinely excited for it.

I say that to say to the audience listening.

If you are interested in getting back into wow, into the Pve scene, rating, whatever.

I genuinely, even though I'm, I'm the guy that says, oh man, I, I want weak ores.

I, I genuinely think that midnight is a good time to get either plugged back in or to plug in the very first time.

If you haven't done it before.

I think that with these changes, especially if you've taken a break or you haven't, you don't have prior experience, it's a good time to be like, OK, baseline is set.

Like we've discussed, mechanically speaking, it's not the hardest it's ever been and you can ramp up throughout the expansion, assuming that's the direction they take.

You know, with each season getting maybe a little bit harder, a little bit more complicated, you'll be able to ramp up or just, you know, continue doing casual stuff.

That's fine too.

Yeah, I, I'd, I'd say right now is a good time to, to get back into the game if you've taken a break like me.

Would you guys agree with that?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Art of an expansion is always a great time, right?

That's true.

Man, I love that reset the the wiping the slate clean.

Everyone's on level footing, you know, normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, mythic zeros.

Like I love that.

It's my favorite thing.

Yeah, it's the, it's the my favorite thing in all of gaming.

It also gives, you know, guys like me a, a, a thought in the head, like this is the expansion that's going to be different.

I'm doing it.

This is the one where I'm going cutting edge.

And then two weeks, then I realize, yeah, I don't get the time.

That's great, you know.

Shout out to I'm I'm traveling with a Guild called unbalanced untochondria.

It's two night a weeks, two nights a week, man.

I'm I'm not, I'm not putting pressure on you, Lance.

I'm just saying there are options out there if you don't want to raid.

They they raid six hours total a week.

I'm just saying.

My Guild, I have a we're going to have a two night a week schedule to for for our Prague team in our Guild as well.

So we'll see if I we'll see if I make the cut in my own Guild.

You'll be fine, don't worry.

Oh we need to have one viewer question coming from tutor dudes.

What's up tutor dudes?

Tutor dudes asks.

The one button rotation has made the game more enjoyable on my alts.

I couldn't care less to learn my rotation on my 8th alt doing a weekly 10.

Is the one button rotation where it needs to be penalty wise or is it too strong at the level that makes it so that they want to use it to have the option?

In other words, you know it is the GCD penalty the way that it's currently designed fine.

Is it too strong?

It doesn't need to be even worse.

What do you guys think?

I.

Think it's fine where it's at.

I don't think it needs to be adjusted too much.

I don't say that rotation that much, so I'm wondering if the Valen would have a more of an informed take.

Well see there it's it's one of the funny things I've tested on the beta to see how much does it deal damage against the assisted highlight and the single button in the system.

And the difference between for example, on arcane mage using assisted highlight, where basically you just use your rotation after what it highlights and using single button rotation was the 12.9 DPTPS difference.

But that's standing still on a dummy for 5 minutes just you know, doing the rotation.

So it's like it's, is that enough or not?

I personally, I mean, again, the assistant highlight doesn't even play as good As for example, Dell.

You would play, you would probably still play better than assistant highlight is suggesting because that's still me clicking whatever is glowing, kind of like playing Guitar Hero.

So I mean, I guess in reality, reality, it's always going to deal 20%.

It's one of those funny things.

It deals 20% less damage than someone who's really good at the, like, really good at the class.

But if you play against someone who thinks they're good but actually are not good, you might even deal more damage than them, and I feel like that's OK.

I, I, yeah, I love seeing people perform with the rotation tool because of, you know, just of course from numerically speaking, you can't outperform somebody who really does.

And like you said, who actually knows what they're doing.

You cannot outperform them because there is a a limitation, A restriction.

That's it.

That's it there by by default.

But being able to like this person said, two to dudes jumping on an alt, learning how to play something, you know, perhaps you just don't care and that's fine too.

Love it.

I love seeing people be able to do something comfortably without feeling stressed about it when it shouldn't be a stressful thing at that.

You know, that entry level, that mid level, whatever you want to call it, you're, you're not, you're not race.

It's not race to world first, you know, out there for most people.

You know, we're going to, we're going to go ahead, go ahead.

I was just going to say as long as because like the whole 1 button rotation or even assisted highlight, I think it's always going to be a bit of like a topic in the community, right?

Like how strong should it be compared to a player that actually mastered their class and knows super, super well?

Because like if you could just take the 1 button rotation and you know, take it to the world first, that's a lot of silly, right?

So again, it's going to be down on Blizzard to balance it, but I don't think anyone has an idea any, any issue really of like the button offering more accessibility.

But man, I guess I'm just like been thinking about it.

It's like how much limitation should it really have?

It should have some, but I'm wondering if they're, I'm just wondering if they're gonna cause like the streamline classes, they're making classes a little bit easier, a little bit more approachable.

So I'm assuming the button is going to get better naturally, and I'm wondering if they're going to end up like looking at it themselves and being like, maybe we should nerf it some more.

Maybe we should incur a longer, a bigger DCD thing on it, right?

I feel like it's again in their control to figure it out and I don't have like an answer how they should go about it.

I'm I'm just wondering if they'll like.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up somehow nerfing it artificially in midnight one way or another.

I did a like a like a build for the Singapore assistant for every DPS class in the game and some specs really did well with it.

And some specs like fire mage was just horrible because it used like free fire blast in row where you're like, what are you doing?

And the survival Honda didn't work at all like that just didn't work at all.

So some specs really like was like almost sometimes 11% less than someone who maybe would be good, but then you have survival Honda who would yield 30% less.

And I agree, if we get to the point where especially with midnight, because as you said, the rotation is going to be so smoother now, it's probably going to be able now to play fire mage finally.

And yeah, but I mean, also with this, well, who knows, if the game is ever going to come on console, then I guess this button is going to be the prime button for console players.

Possible.

You know what one of my favorite things to do is is I I have a Steam deck Shout out to Drewish, my one of my mods who is letting me borrow it dot dot dot.

But I have a Steam deck.

Wow's installed literally just on an alt.

I can just load it up and if I want to go questing, if I want to do this, that or the other, just hold down a button and I can just cruise through.

Don't have to think about it.

Now, some people may say to themselves, that's dumb.

You're just not.

But you know what, sometimes I like sitting down next to my wife, popping on, you know, a show on Netflix or you know, Amazon Prime or whatever the case may be and just hanging out with her without having to pay attention to exactly what I'm doing in game.

Well, I'm lovely and alt.

I've levelled alt 1000 times before.

Let me enjoy a show with my wife.

Little 1 button rotation.

I love it.

I'm just, I said what I said.

I'm unapologetic.

It is what it is.

Yeah, big Steam Deck Unite.

I don't want button rotation and on the Steam Deck but my wife just got me one for anniversary.

And.

It has been pretty sick to be able to play it in bed.

I love.

It man.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

Well, I, I want to, I want to jump to the the next topic if you guys are OK with that.

I don't want to cut anyone off right?

Cool, cool.

I want to jump right into Lindormi's Guidance.

All right, for those of you that don't know Lindormi's, Lindormi's guidance hit beta a few days ago.

To to explain it briefly, when you join a +234 or five on beta right now, mobs will be highlighted like a little golden color with a little golden circle under their feet.

And as the tank in pretty much all cases, of course, as long as you pull every mob in the dungeon that has that golden highlight, you will reach your enemy force count.

You're 100% to finish the dungeon.

I want to know what you guys think about this.

Is this meaningfully helping players learn dungeons?

Is this delaying difficulty just, you know, putting it off until you hit plus 6 and beyond?

Is this a good thing?

Is it a bad thing?

Man, somebody take the floor.

Please go.

I mean, I've been seeing the discussion back and forth on this and everybody has an opinion, right?

Is this the yellow paint?

Is this the yellow paint that you see on other games but as a Wow affix?

In a sense, yes.

But I don't think it's it has to be like the worst thing in the world either.

The way I see it is Blizzard initially I guess like what since at least War within maybe previous expansion saw mythic zeros as like this is the place where you go to ideally learn your dungeons, see what enemies do, see what kind of routes you can make, see what hits hard, see what you should be avoiding, and also learn what the bosses do.

It has no timer.

It has tuned to be the old plus 10 difficulty from back in the day when they made mythic plus.

It's not meant to be super challenging, but challenging enough where you're like, you go in there to learn what the dungeons are like and then you would take the knowledge into keystones and work up through the levels.

The problem is most players skip Mythic 0 and most players are doing like plus twos plus threes and they're so easy.

You don't actually pay attention to, oh, this mechanic is going to kill me.

Oh, this trash pack has too many like casters.

That's way too dangerous.

That's going to reduce time.

Nothing in the lower keys really challenges you until you're getting into the +6, +789, maybe 10 category.

And then you're like, oh, I'm getting trucked now you're having to learn how the key is going and imagine being a tank, right?

It's even more pressure because it's like, what do you do?

Tank?

What is the route?

I didn't know the route.

I was just doing plus 2 + 3 and we just beelined it.

We we held W key and move forward.

We I have no idea.

It's a lot of pressure on the player as well.

So I think this is, well, not an all in like guaranteed solution to fix routing, but it's at least like it's at least a way to give players like a pathway, a golden brick road to follow as you get in through the key.

And for my testing is it generally tries to avoid like some of the tougher trash bags where you'll have like you'll have you pull like smaller mobs and some of two two big elites that have a bunch of mechanics going on.

So and at least we'll give you a pathway to get full percentage as you get all the bosses and they need me count and I think it's better than nothing, right?

It's a way to naturally encourage players to want to hit those mods with the debuff because they have less health and they do less damage.

Why would you pull anything else outside of it?

It naturally would get players at least go in by the route and through practice and repetition, it at least establishes a route that will function fine in a + 10 or you know, around that level.

From there, there's an opportunity for players to use other resources to learn a route, especially because you know, it's a very much a team specific type of like responsibility.

It it just has become a take heavy responsibility ever since mythic plus have been have been added as a system and for like a new tank, you have no idea where to go.

At least this golden brick road, this yellow paint affix tells you more or less a serviceable route that will work for like your weekly keys.

But outside of that, like without it, you're kind of just like floundering until you have to go out of your way to look up external guides, read guides, look at routes on radar IO, like in terms of like replays or look at people's logs and see what the routes are looking like.

And as a tank, as a brand new player, just jumping into midnight, right, you're like all right, time for me to actually play wow.

People are saying this is the most approachable expansion.

Imagine if you were just like, wait, I have to tank mobs and crowd control and I have to plan a route for dungeons I've never done before.

That's.

A lot.

It's a lot.

So this is at least like a natural way for players to experience the routes instead of like sitting down and reading the guide.

It is something that you're seeing in game in visually through repetition.

It's almost like establishing a muscle memory of how you'd run the dungeon.

And it's serviceable at least bare bones, like starting point.

And for players that are, let's say are like, why would I ever use this?

You know, I do keys.

I've done Algothar back and dragon fight.

I know more or less what it is when you're getting into plus 10, you'd want to make sure like we talked about raising the skill floor a little, you want to make sure your tank, your healer in the D PS: ND group at least more or less are competent in to complete the key.

And I think this affix would help at least the tanks, but also to some degree everybody else in a group to some degree have at least a bare bone route to follow, which does help raise the competency to make sure that you're your dungeon groups more than likely hopefully will have at least some idea of how you run the dungeon because they played through it and they had that golden trail to follow.

Saw a lot of head nodding throughout that.

Do you guys have any other perspectives that you want to bring to the table?

You want to go or should I go 1st?

I'm going to be respectful if you want to.

Go OK, I just have one quick thing because like like I said before, I have done maximum +56 keys or something like that and the same with my Guild.

We are very casual people who likes to own it the normal rate we do it like 1020 times we have fun.

We also do move it plus one to five and I think this is going to be great because none of us likes to go on YouTube and find out what route we have to go.

So this is something that it's going to make it more fun for us just to jump into and be like, I mean, I hope at least they have like marked it the right path that you.

I mean, of course someone is going to make a better path maybe, but it will probably.

But at at least for casuals like me, it's nice that we can go in and be like, we should go that way.

Yeah.

I.

Mean, I, I think that's that's exactly right.

Before I monologue again, Lance, did you want to say anything?

Yeah, and I, I keep bringing this up, but I want to go back to like, what's the intent right now?

I'm assuming the intent would be how do we get more tanks to queue?

Because that's the biggest thing.

And I know for a fact from my Guild, from YouTube comments, people are stressed out about the even the thought of tanking.

They're like, I would like to tank but I have to as as Dal said.

I have to.

It's a lot I.

Have to CC and then I have to plan a route with the biggest one being well I have to lead and plan a route.

That's nerve racking for me and I've tanked.

Which I'm sorry to interrupt you, which by the way, is an add on for most people, you know, mythic dungeon tools, MDTII just wanted you know, that's another that's another layer to it, right?

Is they have to download an add on because how are you going to know what to pull?

Because by the way, percentages are not tracked in game.

You're just you just got to figure it out and learn it without something like MDT.

I'm sorry I interrupted you.

Keep going.

No, and, and you're exactly right.

And was going to, it was going to go back to to my point, but these people who are just starting tanking, they're not going to know that they're not going to have that and they're not going to look up a route before because they don't even know if they.

But I have to invest in in looking up routes before I even know if I like this thing.

Yeah, that's kind of it's when you think about it's like, yeah, that's a lot to put on someone who's never done it, who's never tried it.

I don't even want to do it.

I don't want to take because I don't want to deal with the responsibility it's like imagine you have to get these new people in OK great now the intent here is maybe some people will dip their toes hey guys let's put in this +3 key.

Let's see how it goes I'm going to hit these yellow painted mobs and let's let's go through this journey together.

If I suck, well it's a three who cares you guys will carry me.

I'm sure your DPS is fine and they have less health, but let's go down it.

And then if if it's interesting, great.

Let's go up to a six or seven and and like Dal said, you'll get the the the muscle memory of OK, I know when we were doing these two threes and fives or whatever it is, if I kill this mob into this mob, into this mob into this mob, we'll get our percent.

Yeah, maybe you get it.

I don't know.

You're not going to get a million new tanks, obviously, but you get a few more tanks in the in the group Finder that helps everyone.

Like, let's do it.

What's?

The What's the fix for healers next?

Yeah, that's actually a good question.

I do think that this I think this affix is definitely beneficial.

I think it's, you know, step in the right direction for encouraging people to jump into that role, you know, whether it be the role of tank, the role of Polar, the role of router and so on and so forth.

I think that for people like Devalen and and and this is not a, you know, US versus them thing.

This is just a good for them scenario to where it's just one less thing, or in this case it's a huge thing.

They, they just don't have to worry about it anymore.

You just pull what's highlighted.

It takes the burden off.

It takes this, it takes a lot of the stress out of the equation and that's a good thing.

If someone decides to move beyond a + 5, cool.

There's a thousand 1000 videos and 1000 different ways to learn routes and learn, you know, better cooldown management and pull patterns and stuff like that.

And if no one ever progresses past the +5, no big deal.

Anyone who naturally is, is beyond that level is not there.

There, there's no drawback in my, in my mind, because no one's being pulled away from their plus twelves or plus fifteens to go run plus fives like that's that's not going to happen, obviously, unless someone just wants to play an alt on any given day.

I, I, I think it's great.

I, I'm a big, I'm a big fan of it.

I liked doing it.

I tested you know the a dungeon on beta with it and it was easy and not not in a bad way.

Yeah, and I think that onboarding is good and, and if people enjoy it, then they will seek out the knowledge, at least going back to 10th is they'd seek out the knowledge to learn more, to become better if they end up liking tanking.

And if anyone's tanked, it could be addicting to become the leader of the group, right?

A lot of tanks, it's like they start tanking and yeah, this is what I'm doing.

I get to tank, I get to be the guy who's calling the shots.

There's like an addicting thing there, that play style in that play loop, so I think it's awesome.

I also think it's a feature that could also be expanded upon.

Like we're thinking of a perspective like a + 2 + 5 right to help players learn the routes.

But what if this was the feature available at like higher keys, not automatically marking the mobs for you, but giving you the tools In a high end MDT, you have to, you know, mark the route.

You're basically, you know, selecting which mobs you're want to pull, which ones you want to avoid.

You share that route with everybody else.

What if there was a way for you to do that in game pre highlight the mobs without reducing their damage or healing or health or whatever, right?

Without the the making mobs easier, but just highlighting them so that everybody in the group can see what your route is in game.

So everybody in the group, not just the tank, could see which bombs you're looking to pull, which ones you're looking to avoid.

That's the tool that could potentially be expanded.

I know, I know something.

I'm sorry.

Did you want to say something real quick, Lance?

No, I was going to say that would be great for people trying to push, right?

Like, let's let everyone be on the same page.

Yeah, it's good for them too.

I, I, I know some people will make the defense of, well, you know, learning a route and knowing which mobs to pull and which which packs to pull together, you know, pulling these two guys with these six guys.

Like that's part of the skill progression.

And I understand, I understand the position.

I'm not saying that anyone who takes that position is wrong.

I love the idea of being able to like you say, pre mark mobs and and you know, that's kind of the argument is, well, that's why you have MDT.

You can share a route and you can see this is this is pole one.

This is pole 2.

I get I I see both sides, I guess, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

I don't think that it would, I think it would do more good than harm to have something like that in the game.

I would personally like it, but I can see I can see the the the the argument on both sides in that I, I, I suppose.

The the benefits will be to take a lot of the responsibility off of the tank where the rest of the group can see what the route looks like right.

So it's not on the tank to remember it.

You could just see it pre highlighted as you're doing the dungeon.

That would be a big benefit for tanks specifically.

I imagine more tanks would be able to play instead of, you know, doing mobs and having to look up the look at the route then looking back at the mobs, you know, managing both of those things.

But.

Yeah, to shift gears a little bit, did you guys see the the information about the removal?

I it was, I think it was all on the back end.

So I don't think it was ever officially implemented, but it the removal of the reward structure up to that plus 18 level.

Did you see anything about that, Dow?

Yes.

Can I just go to the bathroom real quick?

Yeah.

What?

Got a quick bathroom?

Yeah, get out here.

Go.

For it much water, my bad.

Get it.

Get out of here.

Yeah.

I mean, what?

What do you what do you think?

Like do you think it's healthy?

Do you think it's a good thing to remove those extra incentives beyond that plus 10 going into midnight?

Or do you think that, well, screw you high level dungeon runners?

You you you get next to nothing for running high keys.

Could you explain that as what that is about before you talk about it to me?

Absolutely.

In fact, I have no idea what that is.

If you if you give me one second, I can actually pull up the it's like an Icy Veins thread or not thread, but Icy Veins article, Wowhead article.

Let me try to find it.

You can talk about it real quick while I find the official post real quick if you want Dell.

So essentially it's when you there we go.

So I'm just going to read the article on Wowhead here.

It it says about a month ago the mythic plus rewards track was updated the scale all the way up to plus eighteens granting higher item level gear out of your great vault.

So you know how there's there's like, you know, one out of 6 upgrade, 2 out of 6 upgrade, etcetera, etcetera.

If you ran a + 18 in the first season of midnight, you could have gotten a four out of 6.

So it's it would save you crests during your upgrade path during the first season.

Again, somebody didn't check and correct me if wrong.

I don't think Blizzard ever officially said, Hey, this is what we're doing.

It was just something that was data mined and then this week data mining showcase that that is now gone.

So at the at the moment, as of January 18th, OK, a month and 10 days or so before the pre patch hits at right now, the the highest level you need to run to get the Max item level out of your Gray vault is still a + 10.

So there's no incentive beyond IO at the moment to run anything past a 10 in Season 1.

Did I, did I say all that correctly Dow to if if I'm not mistaken, yeah.

I think they were actually testing it like I think people could pull better gear from the Great Vault on the beta to test how the system functions.

Maybe that's why we were running fifteens and eighteens on the beta.

There were a lot of keys doing that.

But yeah, that is that is correct.

As As for my take on that, I I definitely think there's an appetite for players that do high end content to get more rewards and what are the easier way outside of like cosmetics would be better gear.

That would be a reason beyond just, you know, make when numbies go up.

If our method plus score and potentially, you know, title towards the tail end of the season.

That would be the best way, the easiest way to like reward you for the time, the effort for tackling difficult content.

There is an appetite for stuff like this whether it is better gear but also could have been things like cosmetics.

I'm going to do KSM and then KSKSL mount as well.

That is a good step in the right direction.

But like what if they did like an enchant at super super high M plus score?

Kind of like PvP or some an enchant of their own.

Just a cosmetic thing.

Maybe a unique armor set that's a cosmetic one.

But gear would be one of the easier way to just like direct the reward for the effort of tackling difficult content.

I think the reduction from an 18 down to a 10 is them trying to look at the it's a couple of features.

It's them trying to look at the ecosystem of every type of player from casual, mid tier, hardcore.

And I think they're looking at it from, for a non hardcore player looking at a first week of season 1 of midnight, If you highest reward that you can get from M plus is a + 10, that's kind of doable.

You know, you did a + 6, you could do a + 8 even though you know, maybe a couple of deaths here and there, but you think to yourself, I could probably do a + 10 at least once a week, maybe not time it, but at least get it down into my great vault, right?

It's a bit more of an approachable like limit, right?

But if you started to an 18, I don't think a lot of those players that don't play within like high end and plusers would feel that they would be like that's doable.

I feel like they would feel a little bit of like a steep hill to climb.

I think it's kind of like the best way.

Like I was thinking about it yesterday, Like how what if it's a really good way for like, I feel like it would create a situation where people probably would quit before they even get started.

And just it's kind of like if you got a good show or like an anime, everybody says it's really, really good, but you're like, all right, I'll give it a go.

Wait, it's 300 episodes.

That's a lot.

We're not even gonna get started.

That's way too much commitment.

So I think it's.

Plus eighteens, I mean, early on, early on in any season, let alone the first season of expansion of plus 18.

That's up there, man.

Like even for the best players, that's that's up there and.

Some people would do it, some people would do it.

It's an incentive.

It's so good.

Like I think Blizzard is protecting the players from themselves by not at this moment not having that as as a reward.

Are people still going to push keys?

Yes, of course, that's that's the nature of high level mythic plus.

But I think that it's probably smart at least early on to be like, you know what I think, I think plus 10s, maybe plus 12.

We'll see that.

I think that's definitely a healthier option.

Lancer Devalen, did you guys have any opinion on that?

You have one excite I I'm ready to go if you you don't have.

One, I mean, I've never done more than six, so let's let's just pass it on.

Oh as someone who will never do an 18 I think they should have it in the game and.

Real quick, we're not.

You were gone because you're using the restroom.

We're not talking about whether the key should exist.

We're talking about no, no, I don't OK, OK, yeah, they, they should have that reward in the game.

I, I saw this forum post.

I think aspirational content is great and I don't think and and I think it should be good to temper players expectations.

Why in the world does anyone think they should do an 18 in week 1 anyway?

You don't need it, but it'd be cool for those people who can do eighteens.

Let them work towards it so they can get there.

Not only that, the people who are good enough to get eighteens, I feel like they deserve to be rewarded for doing so.

I mean this, this.

I don't want to cut you off.

What did you?

Was that the end of your?

Oh, please go.

Well, this ties directly into our next Twitch poll, which asks the question, hold on, wait, let me scroll up one second, one second.

Mythic plus rewards should dot dot dot and the the the the highest.

I can't talk right now.

50% of people said that mythic plus rewards should be redesigned entirely.

And so all that to say, yeah, well, what do you get for pushing keys right now other than score?

I mean, you get the point, 1% title.

You know, very, very, very few people get that, of course.

But beyond that, like what?

What does Mythic Plus provide other than better score?

And I asked you one who is, you know, a higher end player and and brutal you as well.

Do you guys care about transmog or or a title?

Or would you rather just better gear so you could push higher?

I like trans mug.

I do.

I go ahead.

Go ahead.

I was going to say like mage tower right back in Legion, those weapons were pretty sick, pretty sick PvP.

You get like the the elite version of weapons, the enchant, the set.

I do yeah.

If there's something that looks sick and it's it was locked behind difficult content, hell even amount right, I will.

Yeah, I do care about those things at the end of the day.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I like good trans mog, I like fancy mounts, but I don't pursue those things at the at the moment.

I know for me, again, I, I, I know I'm in the minority, or rather I assume I am.

I would love to see a system to where if I push a higher key, I get stronger and if I push a higher key, I get something really cool.

You know, other than a title.

I, I don't care about titles.

Who cares about titles?

I, some people do.

But yeah, I would like to see more.

I, I and, and we've heard this for years and years and years.

Like, what does pushing Mythic plus get you other than bragging rights and IO score and maybe a title if you're literally the best of the best.

There's just not enough.

There's not a lot people still do it, but there's not a lot of incentive there and there's not a lot of rewards there.

But I don't think, I don't, I don't design the game.

What do I do?

Well, and the reason I even asked that is I think most high end players, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't know if they necessarily care so much about transmog or or they do, but they definitely want to be able to feel like they're rewarded gear wise so they could push even higher, right?

And man, it's stopping at plus 10 where it's like I'm not very good.

I could do a + 10 pretty easy.

It's almost like laughable.

It's it's one of those things to where of course you can't infinitely reward players with better gear because then that just throws everything off with mythic rating and you know, even mythic list itself and whatnot.

So like, where does the reward, like where do rewards come from?

Like what do you reward players with?

I mean, again, we have the title, we have them out with Keystone KSM.

Is that right?

Keystone Masters, is that what it's called?

That kind of stuff.

Well, what what else can you do?

I mean, you you look back at challenge modes and mop with with, you know, gear sets the the trans mog like you're talking about people love that.

Why don't they don't continue doing that?

I don't have an answer but.

They should do stuff like that, but also I think what they had in that plus 18, you know, getting what it was at four of six myth.

Yeah.

That's pretty awesome.

Yeah, definitely saves you a lot of press.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Like, I don't, I don't see the problem with that.

And it's not like, yeah, you're going to save Crest, but they're not getting a forever advantage over people, especially with Turbo Boost, right?

Once Turbo Boost is out, who cares?

Let the people who could do it aspire to that.

So all all of this and I don't again, I don't want to cut anyone off.

So does anyone want to chime in real quick?

All right, so this does raise a larger question about how Blizzard wants people to engage with Wow long term and and not just, you know, week to week, season to season, great vault to great vault, but across the entire expansion.

And like from a seasonal reset standpoint, like does that model resetting, you know, every season, does it foster engagement or does it lead to long term exhaustion?

Like if you're running eighteens week 1, are you still there week 20 or are you taking a big break?

You know, like where does that, where does that kick in and come into play?

Does anyone have an opinion on that or perspective?

I think breaks are healthy and I think a lot.

I, I, I know some high level players where they like being able to complete and go and like, breathe a sigh of relief.

OK, I did it like they have OCD and they got to complete their character and then they can go on their break and and that's cool.

Then you take a minute from Wow and then when you come back, you're revitalized, you're ready to go.

There are also some people who they would like their trinket from the first rate of the expansion to be good the whole way through.

Depends on on who you're asking I guess.

But I think I know when when a new season starts, everyone's coming back at the start, whether they like it or not.

It's fun.

You know you're you're doing there, especially when there's like a preseason.

You get to do your Mythic 0 world tour or whatever it is and everyone's hanging out getting ready and then you hit the ground running.

What, what about you Devalin?

Like how, how do you, how do you fit into this, this question and this, this conundrum of, you know, being exhausted after weeks and months of running the same content over and over?

Does that even afflict you or you kind of just like, I'm good, man.

I'm I'm I've got 1000 things I can do from where I sit.

Yeah, I think I I will go into that box saying I'm good because I I do.

Then I do a + 5.

I do some sono rated battlegrounds.

Then I do a rate with the Guild.

Then I do some housing because now I want to build go shy in in my house.

So I'm just like all over the game.

So I don't care too much about one like like one mode.

So I will do a + 5 here and there, but that that's all I'm going to do.

So OMV from twitch chat actually brings up a good point.

I want to read this live.

He says the people nutty enough to get an 18 done in the early weeks are not typically the same people you need to worry about retaining.

I think that's that's a fairpoint, man.

People, if, if they're going to, they're going to push that hard, that high that early.

I mean, kind of I, I, I think it was someone, someone said like those people are, are, are engaged at, they're at the top of the podcast, right, Like those people are in.

Yeah.

I mean, does, does Blizzard want the PBE in game to be the focus of the game or, or, or do you think at this stage with, you know, the introduction of housing and you know, everything else?

I'm, I'm not going to list off 1000 things.

Is, is PBE just part of the larger ecosystem at this point in time?

And is that is that good for the game?

Is that healthy for the game?

I personally think that Wow is going the same way as Minecraft and Roblox where they're trying to make games inside the game.

So now you could literally play housing and not touch anything else.

Of course if you want this specific chair, you have to kill this specific boss, but it really feels like they're going to Roblox Minecraft way where you have so many modes in the same game.

They they still want you to stay in there and pay your monthly Sup, but it's a bigger like it's a, it's what you could say it's like a yeah, it's it's a it's a.

World like it's literally in this case, the World of Warcraft.

There are so many different, you know, avenues you can take to to to reach the end game of your choosing.

Yeah, the same.

The same at Fortnite.

It's a game you can play in so many ways.

And now, wow, it's slowly getting there.

Do you think that do you think it's taken this long because Wow was such an old game and it's been set in its ways for so long, the players have been set in their ways for so long?

Or do you think this is just, do you think it's just OK that it's taken this long, that you know it's better late than never, kind of an approach?

Better late than never because otherwise we would have been.

What is it?

I remember a while back, you know, there was only retail.

There was no classic.

The devs were asked like, hey, would you ever do classic?

And they said you think you do, but you don't, even though those player appetite for things like that.

And then eventually here we are.

We have classic, we have retail how?

We have anniversary classic, we have Pandaria classic, right?

We have retail, but then we also have multiple flavors of retail.

There's the seasonal models like Plunderstorm that's really fun.

There's remix, which have been enjoying the hell out of There's also seasonal content outside of that.

A I do think that they realize that just doing a seasonal thing for retail, it's exciting.

New season, new class changes, a new meta, new dungeons, maybe a new affix, which is not not as much as right now.

It's just salad death affixes now, but previous expansions.

Sometimes it's a fresh experience and you have a season 3 like Dragonfly, where a bunch of people playing the living shadow of the game.

It's a lot of fun.

And then there's other seasons, like what season of one were within, which was a little slower, a little more less lively.

And then people do mean about season 2, which ended up being much, much better.

But you do have to, I think they realize that they have to expand on the ecosystem because otherwise the game is just like it's just series of menus and then the world itself is just a backdrop.

And I don't think anybody started playing this game, playing it like a League of Legends, like, you know, what have been made, You just get into the next game, into the next mode.

So with them adding things like war bands, so the characters are part of like a shared experience, which they're not a separate experience that they ever have been.

They finally recognizing it.

Dells that offer more horizontal progressive systems and then building in the world systems like with Prey, they're adding at midnight, which I think is like an extension of Dells to some degree.

The collection, I mean housing by itself, just like quadruple the collection aspect outside of just trans mugs, mounts, pets and titles if people care about it.

But it seems like that they are focusing more about like the the engagement aspects and fight given players as many avenues to engage with the game rather than just like, here's the PV E season, see you guys next season.

I mean, I think it's been healthy.

I, I would, I would definitely agree.

I mean, I, I think that I'm sure I've said this four times at this point in this in the podcast, but having options and having different areas that people can focus on instead of just medic plus PvP rating is good.

It keeps people, you know, from a business standpoint, keeps people subscribed, keeps the revenue flowing.

Awesome.

And then from a gameplay standpoint, not, not everyone wants to raid.

Not everyone wants to do XY and Z.

Some people play this game to collect mounts.

Some people play this game nowadays to build out their house and that's fine.

That's fantastic.

There's no, no right or wrong way, of course.

And so that that raises the question like, is Blizzard designing what they're doing right now with Midnight and this world's Osaka, is that for us today or is that more for Wow's long term survival, you know, 5-10 years down the road?

Is it both?

What do you guys?

Think, yeah, I think it's, I would say it's both.

And I think there's something, something important to remember and and so easy to fall into your preferred end game in Wow, right.

That we're, I'm sure everyone's busy.

They have, they log in, they're like, I don't want to waste time.

I got to do what I got to do and that's it.

And a different, a different like phases and chapters in my life of playing Wow because I've, I've been playing this game since I was like 6 years old.

I don't even remember life without Wow.

It's, it's been different things for me.

There's been times where even it back in, in Qatar or or Mop where the game has, it's been I'm queuing Bee Gees only all day every day.

That's it, that's my World of Warcraft and I didn't think about anything else.

There's been times where, you know, maybe when I first got with with my now wife, I had time to just do world quest and I was just happy to be in Azeroth.

And that was my game.

That was my World of Warcraft.

And nowadays it's I log in, I do my raid, I do my delve and maybe I'll do a mythic plus and that's my World of Warcraft.

But the beauty of it, it's always been much more than what your end game is, what his end game is, what my end game is.

It's always been a lot of things.

And maybe they haven't serviced like solo players so well.

But I'll tell you what, it has never felt better to be a casual solo player in the game than it does now.

And even going into midnight, they're making it better.

You guys said pray, pray, while still leaves a pidbit to be desired.

I think they need to work on that.

It's pretty cool.

It's an extension of, you know, more solo things like Dell's.

I think there's going to be a lot of people who love that, and that's going to be their World of Warcraft.

I have people in my Guild who now all they're doing is housing.

That's awesome.

In a long roundabout way of answering your question, they're building and they're including things now, but they're working on the future of Wow, just like they said at at BlizzCon 2023, right?

Like they're trying to trying to build for the next 5-10, fifteen years.

And I think, I think it's awesome.

Yeah, I, I, I, I think you're definitely right that there has never been a better time to be just, hey, I'm just going to play the game and whatever that winds up being, I'm OK with it.

Housing, elves, questing, whatever, man, it's all good.

Valen, did you have a perspective on that?

It's it's funny because a lot of the twitch streamers I follow on Twitter who plays wow, they they all do housing now.

It's just they all just became housing Before they were farming raids for transport and mounds.

Now they just build houses and for some reason I actually enjoy watching that because it's like, oh, this is cosy stream with some lo fi in the background.

But I also think this comes down to Microsoft, who also owns Minecraft.

And I also think it comes down to possibly the Xbox, because I mean, what wouldn't be the best thing to have like a huge MMO with 20 different modes on your local Xbox?

I mean, I, I, I feel like I might have like a, you know, tinfoil hat on right now, but I have a feeling that Microsoft has something to do with this.

Yeah, I, I, I definitely think that I'm, of course, I'm in no position to say Microsoft is, is, is demanding XY and Z out of Blizzard, but I think that everyone would agree with that with Microsoft owning them.

Perhaps goals have changed or goals will change or perhaps focuses, you know, their focus will change.

I, I can't say what that will be or if that, you know, if that does wind up being true, I don't know.

But yeah, different owners, maybe different priorities.

We'll see.

Dal, did you want to say anything before we move on to this last section?

I mean, I the only thing I could say is just repeat what's been said here.

I mean, like, I'm just going to echo the statements that everybody has said.

All these changes, I've been good.

Yeah.

He's.

Back.

He's back.

Sucked into the boy, yeah.

But yeah, they're building the game for today's players, but also long term survival of the game too, drawing more.

I mean, we want more players playing Wow, right?

It's healthy for the game no matter what they get into.

And them doing things like streamlining classes, disarming add-ons, even though they're controversial, I think it was also part of that whole goal of trying to create Wow for the long term new player that comes in, right on top of all these different features that they have access to.

So you can just choose what kind of Wow you want to play.

We had, oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Am I allowed to mention?

Well, I well, I already did that mention of games.

So for example, if I like one of the things I see why it's a good thing to denial.

Think about how many add-ons we need in this game.

If you go for example, if I went to any of my favorite Elder Scrolls online streamers and I said, hey, what add-ons are you using?

Oh well I have this 30 page like spreadsheet of add-ons I'm using to make the game actually playable.

It's like wow, OK, now mine then and I really don't want like wow in that space.

I mean we gore was one add on of course, but like where Elder Scrolls right now is with add-ons and how many they use.

It's insane.

Yeah, you're talking about the MMO, right?

Not Skyrim.

Yeah, exactly.

Elder Scrolls Online where you like the reason like I think why you don't have like cross play between Xbox and play PC right now is because PC players use hundreds and 200 add-ons and like console plays that just can't use it right now.

That's crazy.

I've never played ESA, so I don't I, I didn't know that.

That's wild.

The, the, I think this is hold on, wait, real quick.

OK, the next poll question did ask the question of what keeps you logging into Wow long term.

And by the way, those of you who are watching live, you can answer these by typing in the command poll.

But the, the, the, the largest response was social and community reasons.

And yeah, I mean, I think, I think we've been talking about that a lot in these past few minutes.

Being able to log in and do what you want to do, hanging out with your friends, your Guild or doing your community raids, whatever the case may be.

I mean, I fall into the end game mastery category.

And that was the second largest response.

But it's an MMO, right?

You hear this all the time across, you know, so many channels and so many videos and whatnot.

It's an MMO, It's meant to be social.

I'm not always the best at being social in an MMO.

I, I'm very much a a lone wolf, no pun intended as a hunter, but it's an MMO.

It's it's a social game I I don't want to keep you guys hostage.

It's we're already at the hour 50 mark, but I do want to bring up one quick thing in this last discussion if you have a few moments here.

A survey circulated earlier this week showing Blizzard asking players about potential new specializations.

Now, I, I, I listen, I, I can't verify this, but I'm pretty sure it's real based on what the thousands of comments have been saying, saying, yes, this is my launcher.

OK, OK, so assuming it's real, which in this case it likely is, and for the sake of the conversation, of course, to, to me, the interesting part isn't the list of specs, but it's, it's what this survey tells us about how Blizzard is thinking about the game right now and the direction they may be going with it in the future.

So is this Blizzard exploring new long term class identity or like are they looking for safer ways to experiment without committing to the the reality of building out an entirely new class with multiple specs?

Like, do you think this is a healthy way to say again?

I just want to did did all of you guys take the survey?

I didn't get it.

It's not on my launcher.

I can't.

I didn't find it.

It's off now.

It was up Thursday and I took it.

Anyone else here?

Might be a good idea to go over some of the different class spec ideas they had on there.

Yeah, so if you played, if you played Season of Discovery, some of it will sound familiar.

Healer mage.

There was also healer hunter.

I saw that one.

Tank shaman.

Tank warlock.

Hello TBC called.

Hello, tank rogue.

That was a big one.

But there were, I think there was holy DPS, Paladin, holy DPS pre.

No, I'm sorry, Paladin support, holy DPS priest.

I mean, I don't, I don't want to say to enlist all of them, of course.

But yeah, there were some wild ideas in there.

But go go ahead, Lance.

From what I gathered taking it, it really felt like they threw the sod specs in there as yeah, we're going to throw them in because you guys have seen these before.

It really felt like they were trying to pitch new support specs from from my point of view while taking it.

It's like, oh, how do you feel about this support?

How do you feel about this support?

How do you feel about this?

I don't know how you guys feel about Aug or how you feel about them adding more support specs, but that's the vibe I got while I was taking it.

Like they're trying to float.

All right, well, we're not getting rid of Aug as a support.

How do you guys feel about us throwing in, you know, more classes or specs to balance this thing against?

I'm I'm not I'm I'm not sure if Mord's support classes is good for the game.

Augmentation is in a weird spot right now from what I understand.

I don't actually play it myself.

It's it's not quite what it was when it launched in Dragonfly.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, it's not.

I mean, but, but again, do you think this is a, a Safeway or is is this kind of just like what's the purpose behind they're getting?

A game like that to see how they feel, how people feel about them adding more support maybe.

I I would say it's hard.

It's so hard to balance Ogg when you're balancing it against nothing else of its kind.

That's that's fair.

That's a good, that's a good point.

Yeah, obviously it's going to throw a monkey wrench into everything because if it's good, it's the most valuable spec in the game bar none, and nothing else comes close.

And then if it's bad, it's useless.

I don't if if you're playing it you're a joke right, but if they start adding other support specs into the game, it allows them to balance around it.

Maybe they add a six man to a a dungeon group, or maybe the way you make dungeon come that's.

Right take.

What is this EverQuest?

I'm not staying here.

I'm not saying what to do.

I'm.

Just saying this EverQuest, jeez.

By the way, EverQuest YouTube, I don't.

I've never even played EverQuest.

I watch so much EverQuest YouTube it's insane but.

You mean both You me both?

It's just it's so hard.

Like how do you balance Ogg when there's nothing else to balance it around?

If you had these other specs whether who knows maybe you keep it 5 man dungeon but now it's two DPSA support, healer, tank right?

It'd be interesting to see what a Wow with more support looks like.

What do you think, Devalen?

Well, I like the idea of them adding actually new specs because I mean we still have for example, we had demon hunt that would only it was 2 specs, right?

Yeah, it was only two specs and now it's free.

And I feel like, you know, we have druid with four, why can't they always have 4 like Hondas, They need the bot.

You know, we need a bot in the game, which could also be support class.

So I feel like this is the right take to like add more specs into the game and not new glasses even though I know some people would like new glasses but that would just add more transport they had to create for all the glasses and so on and so on.

But personally I've never played augmentation that I I I'm really scared of even thinking about that one did.

You say the magic word Bard is that?

Is that what you said?

Yeah, yeah, I I have been praying for a Bard in the games like so, so long time you.

Want it to be a hunter.

We just.

Keep talking about EverQuest.

I'm I'm here for it, man.

I'm here for it.

That's.

What I mean by the way, I'm yeah, I'm manning Bard no matter what if it comes down, but I wouldn't want it as a hunter spec.

I mean, what what do you think Dell is?

What do you think Dell and from from a high level of position?

I mean I like the idea of them potentially adding new specs if not a brand new class of the game.

I think the classes we have right now there's a lot of different fantasies that could still be fulfilled with more play style options.

Plus you also you'll be given what like some of the specs that are purely DPS like a hunter or rogue.

Another role to dive into.

So when it comes to group, you know, LFG finding groups for things, there's at least a little bit of flexibility there.

And I don't think having classes given more flexibility is bad.

Plus, I mean, Blizzard when it comes to designing, you know, made of ochre, cool news, play styles, and then they made a buff spec and then I've done it before.

I love the fact that they're trying to be creative.

I like the fact that they're trying new things and it's time to come up with a new class, like whole roster of classic classes and then you drop a daft knight and it fits that.

Arthur's fantasy, it is powerful.

Some people would say at the time was too powerful, but it was really, really good.

Demon Hunter in Legion, it is so fast-paced.

It feels like you're playing it in action game rather than wild tap targeting type of game, right?

If they're doing so many different, something new and odd was a really really wild one.

I do agree being the only support spec it's so impossible to balance it and somebody in chat says carbon I think said they are terrible at balancing this thing ever since the drop day has been better until they just had to RIP its wings off for one season or more with it just so they could be.

They had to go so heavy with nerves just so there was more flexibility and types of comps you could play in M Plus it's crazy.

So maybe they add more support specs and more specs for other classes.

There's a lot of fantasy that they could fulfill and expand upon.

Because I think classes in Wow are really, really cool.

But you know, there's, there's all these different archetypes or whatever that you can create out of it.

And I feel like they have creativity behind them.

Between Devourer, Demon Hunter, and Augivoker and all the other classes they created, I still feel like there's a lot of creative room to grow what we know is a hunter, a mage, a rogue, or a warlock.

And plus, SOD did it pretty good.

SOD did it pretty good.

If anybody played SOD at tank, Demon Hunter was sick.

Of course they are the ones that have metamorphosis, right?

You can't give them back metamorphosis, I don't think, but.

You you said tank demonhurt, but you mean tank warlock, correct?

Yeah, Tank.

Yeah.

Just making sure.

Yeah, dude.

I mean.

I look look ever since the ripped away meta from them when I see meta I think Demon Hunter but yeah don't take more like tank warlock the original expect that should have probably kept meta.

I was, you know, I, I, I've been playing wild long time like you guys have.

I think you started in TBC Lance.

Is that what you said?

So I, I was raiding in TBC with my Guild static at the time, playing a warrior named Brutal, hence the, you know, brutal static name.

And I remember, you know, King Maulgar you had, I think it was a frost, not a frost tank, a mage tank.

And then you had kalethos that had a warlock tank.

And like the, the, the people in your raid, the warlocks would tank a mob, you know, mage would tank a mob.

I, I loved that back in the back in the day.

And of course, we lost that after a certain point in time.

We used to have people who would kite mobs like DKS would kite mobs during Kata and stuff like that.

Brewmaster monks kiting mobs on, you know, Grosch back in the day, kiting iron stars.

I miss that kind of flavor.

So that's kind of a roundabout way for me to say that if, if they could introduce specializations of the game, whether it's a support or something that does something unique like that, they take on a unique role.

I would love to see that back in the game.

One of the things, and I have this in the notes here, one of the things that I saw when I was researching this question, people mentioning things like hunter, mage, rogue, warlock feeling, feeling archaic in in a way because all they do is DPS.

If you, if you go to Icy Veins or Wowhead and you look up their article about this, you'll see that they have a snapshot, an image of raid frames where hunter has a healer icon, the roll icon on the raid frame.

So this, they, they're speculating that some of this may have already been internally tested because healing hunter was on the, the survey.

So anyway, all that to say, I, I, I, I love the idea of breaking the mold and just, you know, throwing caution in the wind and going for it.

But of course, you know, there's the argument of design bandwidth and can Blizzard balance it properly?

And is there really room in the game for this stuff?

I don't know, but gets me excited.

I like talking about it.

So anyway, you guys want to throw any final thoughts in there before we get out of here?

I I'm just calling it that Honda healer's pigsalter is the Bard dude.

I I if if if Bard is on hunter, I'll never not play hunter at that point in time.

Like get that, that'd be amazing.

God.

Would Bard have to be a healer and not a support though?

I don't.

Dude, I don't know, they, they play so many different roles across so many games.

I don't want to heal.

I told so many people I would play Bard no matter what, but I don't want to heal guys.

That's crazy.

Well, if it's anything like OG, it'll be one thing one season and another thing the next season.

So who knows buddy?

Any any any any any other final thoughts before we get out of here the this?

Has been awesome guys.

You, you guys have been awesome.

The the last actually there.

In all fairness and out of respect to the housing people, there were two other questions on the poll.

The first question is when it comes to class design, Blizzard should prioritize.

And the biggest response was expanding existing classes.

That's what we've just been talking about, of course.

And the last question was housing will be successful if Blizzard supports it long term.

That was a 70% vote on that and I would definitely agree long term, it's meant to be here for a long, long time, arguably forever, and I think that's going to be to everyone's benefits.

So you guys are awesome.

We had we did have a a housing section of the podcast.

Sorry, guys just ran running a little too long here a little little.

What's it called a little too long in the long in the tooth.

Is that the phrase where it just means you're just long in the tooth?

Anyway, so appreciate you appreciate you guys listening in today.

Appreciate you guys being here today.

You guys have been an awesome, awesome, awesome set of guests and I really appreciate it.

But one, one last question.

We're going to get you guys out of here.

We are, you know, a couple of days away from pre patch.

We're a little more than a month away from disc, not Discord from midnight, but one month after this week's pre patch.

What should feel meaningfully better if it's working leading into midnight?

Would say classes.

Oh, that's good.

Do you think, do you think that'll that'll be true even though we don't have, you know, tier sets and the Apex talents and stuff like that?

Oh well, you got to keep that new in.

You know, that's going to be a thought in your back of your head.

You know, you can't judge it based off that.

But just the the baseline class I think should feel for some specs at least.

Some fire mage would suck but some classes should feel night like better and just more fluid overall.

What what about you, Dow?

What do you think should feel meaningfully better if it's working?

I think classes for sure because you'll have a better picture of what they are looking like.

I think Reyes in particular should feel meaningfully better, especially if you're removing all of these add-ons.

All mechanics should feel a Blizzard nails it.

Intuitive, right?

Dungeons in particular should hopefully feel better if their systems as they're implementing work correctly.

Yeah, those are the things that I think if anything, they should focus on in terms of like ironing out, cleaning up on in a month.

Those things need to need to feel better.

I don't think, I don't think I mentioned this during the podcast, but man, I'm, I'm a big fan of the season 1 dungeon pool in mythic plus.

I think it's going to be a, a fun season, sincerely, even whether it's the dungeons that are being brought back like Algathar's pit of sarin for the first time or the four midnight dungeons we get.

I've, I've ran them all at the 12 or 15 level, which is, you know, decently high on beta right now.

I'm not pushing like 20s on beta, but they're, they're fun.

I, I, I I'm liking them.

They're very fun.

Devalen bring us home, man.

What?

What do you think?

What?

What should feel meaningfully better over the next month?

Go different way I think with the housing and I don't know even how to say the word in doubt endeavors in Davos OK, cool, cool, 'cause I think that is gonna be a big game change of a housing where we have like a common goal.

Now you need to run around and clean up in your neighborhood.

You need to kill bosses together in your neighborhood.

It's gonna like bring like right now everyone is just staying inside the house building, but this is actually bringing people out in the guilt neighborhoods, cleaning up, killing bosses together, doing weekly goals.

I think I think this is going to take housing to the next level.

Yeah, so when do when dude Endeavors launch?

Is it this week with the pre patch?

Yeah.

Oh, that's so cool.

Well, audience, viewers, listeners, do yourselves a favor and in turn do these guys a favor.

Please go follow them on their very social media accounts, go sub to them on their YouTube channel, get plugged into their communities and participate in their charter neighborhoods or whatever they wherever they might be building, run their endeavors, have fun with them, spend some time with them, listen to them and whatnot.

That's why they're here is to make sure that you guys know they exist and to hopefully you can have a good time with them when they stream when they make content to whatnot.

But you guys are awesome.

Thank you 3 for being here today.

I mean that sincerely real quick, anyone who's been listening or watching this, if you disagree with anything we've said, if you agree with it, whatever it may be, drop a comment below engage with a video.

It would be a greatly appreciated would help us out or help me out tremendously.

But gentlemen, you're awesome.

Can we go around one time real quick, Dal?

We'll start with you.

Where can people find you and why should they care?

YouTube that's I stream there, I post videos there.

That's really about it.

Or if you want some like just regular random updates or next time I steal another time lost photo, Jake, there's always my Twitter slash X account, which whatever you call it, I call it Twitter.

But yeah, I, I, that's if you just want to keep up with anything regular happening when it comes to Midnight.

When it comes to pre patch, I'll be putting our content.

If you want guides for Outlaw assassination, subtlety, I'll definitely be doing those for Midnight as that'll be my main still going forward, still sticking strong with it and actually excited about that class.

So yeah.

Man.

Welcoming community or join us for 5511 duos.

Those are actually really, really fun.

Yeah, go, go check out his channel.

He's got a lot of fun stuff on there.

I I saw your saw your time lost pro to Drake.

Yeah, it was good.

Memorable.

I'm gonna remember that mound for a rest of my life.

The Valens?

Same question man.

Where can people find you and why should they care?

Well, if you want the most casual friendly content for World of Warcraft, then you should definitely find me on YouTube making the most casual bills.

Like, you know, it's gonna make the big the, the pro players cringe when they see my content.

But if you're casual gamer, you're gonna, you're probably gonna join.

You outnumber us like 12:50.

There's no cringe buddy.

It's all good, man.

And then I also really enjoy making recently what you call it machinima, machinima, machinima.

Yeah, I really, really enjoy making that right now on my Instagram.

So yeah, it's the same handle as you can see right now here.

But yeah, casual concert and machinima.

That's so cool, man.

I didn't know that.

I'll check that out.

I didn't know you were doing that.

That's so cool, Lance.

Thank you for being here man, I really appreciate it.

You run an awesome show week to week, please let people know.

I mean I'd literally just said who you were, but let people know who you are and why they should care.

I'm, I'm Lance, one of 1/2 of the comeback kids, whether in I'm the better half or the worst, that's up to you, I guess.

Hey, you're.

The half that's here, baby.

Yeah, we're the half that made it, but we are on the Comeback Kids on YouTube.

Comeback Kids official on Instagram.

Couple of things I did want to bring up just before we get out.

Dow.

I watch your 5V51V1 duels a lot when I'm eating lunch so thank you for doing those for years.

Love that.

Did what I ask, is anyone going to BlizzCon here?

Any of us here?

No, not this year.

No.

Well then I won't be able to shake any of your guys hands.

But it's nice to ask, right?

Someday I'll be watching you.

I want to thank you so much, man.

I've I've really enjoyed watching all of these episodes of this podcast and I watched listen, I watch everyone's content.

I'm I'm the avid just World of Warcraft content fiend.

Whenever I have free time, I'm popping it in.

So I thank all of you guys, but brutal, man, this podcast has been awesome.

I I hope to see continue to grow and I'm very excited for for you, your future of this podcast.

It's awesome man.

Thanks man.

I'll be, I'll be begging you to come back on later this year.

I promise that's true for all of you guys, by the way.

Well, it's been a pleasure either way, and I appreciate everyone here.

Thank you guys so much.

Yeah, man, you guys are awesome.

Give yourselves a round of a plug.

Make sure you guys go.

Follow these guys.

I'm going to get them out of here.

We've been this.

I think this is the longest show by three minutes so far.

So you broke the record, gentlemen.

Way to go, Devalen.

It's late where you are.

You need to go to bed, Sir.

It's 12 AM OR.

No, I appreciate you guys.

We will see you guys or I'll see you guys next week.

I don't have.

I keep saying this week to week.

I don't have the guest set in stolen for next week, but it'll be a good show nonetheless.

But get out of your gentlemen.

Thank you again, round of applause and we'll see you next time.

My name is brutal.

Thanks for watching and have a good 10 and have fun at pre patch.

Enjoy your Tuesday doing whatever it is you're doing, because it probably won't be.

Wow, that's a wrap on episode 11.

Man, what what, what more is there to say?

Those guys did an amazing job.

I love the fact that we got to hear perspective and opinion on things from people who play the game so differently from one another.

So huge shout out to those 3 guests Devalen, Dalerin and Lance.

You guys are awesome if you ever wind up listening or watching this, appreciate you guys so much.

If you have any guests that have not been on the podcast yet that you would like to see on the podcast, comment below.

As I mentioned, I think if I'm remembering correctly, because of course I'm recording this after the episode and just airing.

If you have anything that you disagree with, agree with, if you just want to comment on something that was said, comment below.

Engagement is great.

My name is Rudolf Static, please go subscribe to me here on YouTube, follow me on Twitch, get plugged in.

He pre patches a couple days away like we've established in the this episode.

We've got a lot to look forward to in about a month's time and I would love it if you were a part of the experience.

Appreciate you guys listening to these shows and watching these shows and again, with all that's been said across all of these episodes, it's been a lot of fun for me.

So thank you so much.

I will see you next week, episode 12.

Still don't have a guest to announce yet, but I will announce them on my Twitter.

Hey, it's another place you can follow me.

Go follow me on Twitter.

But yeah, I'll announce them on Twitter and my Discord in the next day or two.

So go follow me everywhere.

Brutal static.

It's literally brutal static everywhere.

So appreciate you guys, love you guys.

I'll see you on the next one until then.