Hey, everyone, it's Sophia.

Welcome to Work in Progress.

Welcome back to Work in Progress friends.

This week we are joined by an actor who I admire so much.

Today's guest is none other than Janny Smale.

She is an American actress born here in New York, one of six siblings, and she has been working in film and television since she was a little girl.

Known for her roles in Lovecraft, Country, Birds of Prey, Underground, and True Blood, she is here to discuss her brand new Apple TV show, Smoke.

The show centers around an arson investigator who begrudgingly teams up with a police detective as they race to stop two arsonists.

It is a twisted game of secrets and suspicions, and journey stars opposite tarn Edgerton in this incredible thriller.

Today we're going to talk about what it was like to film the show, work with the iconic Dennis Lahne, and a lot about what it means to juggle this life performing and acting and traveling and creating with motherhood and self discovery.

And you'll hear a little bit about the lessons the two of us have learned along the way.

Let's dive in with my friend Journey.

Hi, honey, I'm so happy you're here, my love.

How are you.

I'm happy to see you.

It's been forever.

I know, it's been a long time.

You look fabulous.

Thank you so much.

You look fabulous.

This press tour is working.

Oh well, you know, I got a team of experts helping it work.

We need it, especially when you got little ones at home.

It's like somebody helped me.

Look like I've.

Slept right right, And then you know, the press to word, it's almost like you're running a marathon.

As you know, you just sit in that room and you get asked a.

Lot, and you got to make them feel fresh every time.

Yeah, oh I feel it.

Well, I'm excited about the projects.

But before we talk about, you know, what's happening in life at the moment, I want to go backwards a little bit.

Okay, how far back are we go?

Like all the way back?

Okay?

Which is fun for you, especially because you've been working since you were a baby.

But I always wonder, like when I sit with somebody, whether I know them or I'm just meeting them, whoever sits in that chair has an impressive resume, Some cool new project like something in the world.

And I wonder if you could go back in time and hang out with your little self at seven or eight years old, do you think the woman you are today would see herself in that little girl?

Oh?

Yes, because I actually meditate on that little girl a lot.

Really, Yeah, because I do believe so much of what we're doing is in response to our childhood, you know.

And I'm one of those nerds who you know, I'm reading books on attachment theory and you know me too, Yeah, so you feel me, you know.

And so like all of the primary attachments we had and the core memories we had during those moments, I think about, you know, just in how I see the world.

It's also how I construct characters, you know, when I'm approaching them in my work.

But yeah, that little girl, I mean, she she was.

She was a lot of fun.

She was.

She was a lot of fun.

There was a lot going on around me when I was six or seven, how so, Okay, so I think around that age my famly I was I was doing full House, or I had just finished doing Full House, and my family had been I had been offered by the producers of Full House, offered, you know, your seven to do a spinoff of Full House.

You know, my character resonated with.

Folks for some reason, I you know, but.

My pay grade.

And so my mom said no to the spinoff, and she said, I've got six kids at the time, she had five and one on the way.

And she was like, I ain't doing no more damn TV unless they're all in the same show, because y'all got me running around with all these different kids, and I'm trying to be everywhere with all of them.

She was very protective, very hands on.

We never had a nanny or anyone else watch us other than her, and she was stretched thin.

And so the producers, Bob Boyette, Miller Boyette, they said, wait, there's more, bring them all in, and so they gave us all our own TV show.

She had us go into this meeting that happened.

Yes, she had us go into this meeting.

We performed Shut Him Down by Public Enemy.

I was Flavor flav Oh, I did the Flavor Flav verse.

I don't even know.

Maybe I had a clock around my neck.

I don't know.

A room full of white men at Warner Brothers, and she had us perform this very militant song and they gave us our own TV show, all six even the baby that was Bacon in the oven.

Oh my god, this is amazing.

Yeah.

So there was a lot a lot going on around me, a lot of excitement during that time, a lot of newness for the first time, Like we moved into a house that was really nice, remember that, you know.

So, yeah, that's snapshot of my life during that time.

Wow.

And did you love it?

Did you love acting?

Performing?

Even from a young age.

I always did.

I was always performing at home.

My mom loved musicals and old films.

Sound of music probably was on repeat throughout my childhood.

American in Paris.

You know Gene Kelly, fred Astaire sid Cherise.

I always wanted to be, said Cherise with those long legs, you know.

And so she would put she would put down plywood on the floor in our apartment in Elmhurst, Queens, and she got me some tap dance shoes.

Me and my brother Jesse was just tap dance all the time to these musicals.

So, I know, I always loved the art of performing and that exchange that you get when you're performing for someone, right, you know.

Oh, it's so interesting because especially I think for a kid learning any skill like that that really puts you in your body.

It gives you a sense of agency really early.

You know, you understand that you are capable similar to sport.

And I like it to sports too.

Yeah, I like in it to little league.

Yeah, absolutely, little league AISO, like whatever it is.

I think what we know that maybe folks who don't work in this industry might be a little misled about, is that when you are an actor or a performer, a musician, you know, whatever you do like you're part.

Of a team.

You're in a cast, you work with a whole big.

Crew of collaborators.

Yes, like it's team sports, and you've got to learn how to support the team, but also stay in your lane.

You need to be able to fill in for somebody if you're you know, not able to do their job one day.

And so I don't know, I think it's pretty cool to hear about how you were finding yourself in that work.

I completely agree with your perspective on it.

And it's funny because I find myself gaining so much inspiration from sports from athletes.

I watch it religiously.

My son now has taken the sports obsession to a whole nother level.

But I gained and I always have gained inspiration from the way athletes push their bodies, how mentally tough they are, the way they have to work with other personalities and collaborate, and the flow that athletes have to be in.

You can when you're watching a tennis match, you're watching Coco, right, and you're just like, ooh, she's in the flow right now, right, That's what we try to achieve on set or on stage.

You know, you try to find that rhythm.

It's like a musician, you know, a jazz band.

Yes, they're improving, they're in tune with their partner, you know.

The pianist can't go too far off without being in vibe with the basis, right, Like, So there is something about that dance that that you have to be in with the cameraman or camera woman, right, like the with your fellow actor.

It's very true, and I love that you you have that same experience.

Yeah, totally, And I think there's something really interesting too.

All these little connections are firing in my brain.

Like you talking about the way you love to research, you know, for roles, but also for yourself as a person.

You know, reading books on attachment theory figuring out as an adult where your patterns come from from your childhood.

Like, I think that's especially important for anyone who's a performer, whether you're a performance artist or a performance athlete, because you do learn to push yourself to extremes, you do learn to put the work above all else, and eventually you have to come to terms with at some point in your life like, oh, I'm so good at performing, I might not be feeling and I got to figure out how to recalibrate that.

Or it might be only allowing myself to feel when when I'm made for me.

Oh that yeah.

And it's interesting, not that I want this conversation to be about this topic, but I just hear something in you that something in me recognizes.

And I'm like, I don't know if it's when you've built your whole beautiful life and then you realize you're not happy.

I think there's a wisdom that comes when women take up their agency and go through a divorce, as we both have, Yes, we have, And I'm like, oh, whatever, the thing is that I've really learned through this construction and then deconstruction process.

I see in you, I see in you, and I know it's hard, but not to be cheesy, I'm like, I'm proud of us.

We've clearly done some work.

Yeah.

Yeah, Yeah, I'm proud of us too, because it takes courage to say I actually need more and I want more, I deserve more.

Yeah, And society doesn't always hold space for those of us who feel that we're entitled to more, because it's like, well, you got this, this and this sit down, shut up, be happy like what you're complaining about, right, And so it does take a lot of courage to say I know what my worth is and I know what I deserve to receive in return.

So it's a risk.

I don't know if I'll actually get it in this lifetime, but I'm I feel that it's I'm worthy enough to try.

To try that part.

Yeah.

And I don't know if you know.

I don't want to project my experience onto you, but I think, especially when you do the kind of work that requires so much of you and you do show up in big ways, in big spaces, when you know what a high bar you have forgiving and you realize that bar is not being met in return, I actually think it's a really brave thing to say it's not about entitlement, it's not about it's not even necessarily about that deserving right.

It's about I believe that I'm worse what I give, and if someone doesn't, you know, how do you let that person be the closest person to you in your life?

You can't.

And that could be, that could be a toxic relationship.

That can be your co workers, that can be your agents or your lawyers, right, you know.

I've found things like that have actually shown up and manifested in several different ways.

Sometimes I find like, oh, it's so hard for me to let go of people past their exploration date.

It's really hard to just go hard, Oh this relationship has actually run its course.

That was very hard for me.

It's still hard, but it's less hard.

I've gotten I've walked it out enough, you know, to be able to detach.

But in studying attachment theory, I noticed my patterns were the inability to detach yes you know, and go wait, why is that?

Like?

What's that?

You know?

And you do do your own self a disservice because not everyone is built for a lifetime walk with you.

Sometimes it's a season, or it's a reason.

Or it's a lifetime life done.

Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too.

I had to really think about that a lot because I realized, and it's weird, right, there's something you can love about yourself and also it can hurt you, Like I don't like to give up on people, but sometimes that means I'm trying to hold on to something that no longer exists.

Do you feel that it's holding onto a potential?

Like, yeah, believing the potential and maybe not.

Sometimes And sometimes I think it can be.

Really I think there's a difference between dreaming with someone and the dream being attainable in this life.

You know, I really did a lot of work around what do I want the future to feel like?

What do I want a family to feel like?

What do I want to build?

And then I built it?

But I realized like it almost I almost felt like I built a house, but the house was empty, you know.

And it.

Was a house and it was great.

It was like Pinterest's perfect house.

But I think, particularly again as performers and also as women, like, at least for me, I can see all that stuff.

I can see the attachment theory.

I can see what I learned that was good and bad from my parents and their relationship, from generational family stuff.

I can see what I took from societal messaging, and I can go, oh, I get I get why I really tried to be as like responsible as possible and make this plan.

But if the if the plan is hollow, if the house is empty, like, don't you want to go fill it?

And so I don't know.

I think I think there's a really important shift that's happened.

Certainly, I really see it over the last decade, like we could have this conversation, you know, over a bottle of wine with friends.

Over the last decade, I've seen far more people, and I think it had a little to do with me too, you know, far more people say these things are not right at work.

And then a lot of people, once they started talking about the right and wrong in their life, were like, oh, I might actually have to talk about my life.

Also, if I only send her work and I don't send her my life, what am I doing?

And so I always think it's interesting when us artists hit whatever point we hit where we realize, oh, I have to pour into myself the way I pour into my work, the way I pour into my characters, the way I pour into my people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you think it's a deeper resonance that desire to model worth and what you deserve and the right kind of life because you're also doing it for your son.

Yes, the stakes are definitely higher.

I find after having a child who learns so much more from your choices than what you say to them.

He learns so much more from how I move through life, how I deal with disappointment or sadness, by watching you, by watching me, he learns so much about work ethic by watching me.

He has now these goals and these ambitions, and it's beautiful because he relates it back and he kind of mirrors himself to me.

He's starting to do that in ways that I was like, oh my gosh, Like I don't know why I thought, and it probably is my own bias, but I thought, like, oh, if I had a daughter, they would probably mirror.

But no, I mean, like he looks at me and it's like small things, you know, Like he wants to get six pack, So he's like, Mami, teach me how to get a six pack, you know, but he's yeah, he watches my behavior a lot and is influenced by that.

So the stakes are yes, way higher now, and I feel like the greatest gift I can give him is being my whole self.

Alfred Wooded long ago gave me this book called Whole Parent, Whole Child, and it's a beautiful book and it talks essentially about that of you cannot be able to pour into your child and raise them to be their full best self if you yourself or not.

Yes, there is a stat A friend sent me a video that actually said that the highest predicting determinator of an adult's happiness is how happy their mother was.

I've read that in their childhood.

Yes, I've read that somewhere and major.

It is major, because you know what I found very early in Hunter's childhood, I was dealing and struggling with major mom guilt.

You know, I nursed him for three years.

I gave birth to him in my bathtub.

I was like, yo, I'm a dude, like my mom was.

She gave birth to all six of us, natural childbirth.

You know, nursed us, didn't believe in extending extended nursing, and so like a lot of her philosophies and her standards, right, I was holding myself too.

My mom's situation was so different and very unique.

Right.

She didn't have to ever have someone on set with us watching us because she was behind the camera and we were the ones in front.

And so in my situation, I'm the one in front, and so I'm going, well, you know, I want Hunter on set with me.

I'm nursing.

He refused a bottle because he got hype to it, right.

He got smart too.

He got him to the fact that, okay, like around six months, I remember, it was like, okay, if I take this bottle from my aunt, that means mommy might go to Target.

So he started boycotting the bottle, right, smart, really smart.

It's like, oh, I see how I'm gonna get the I want.

And he's like, I'm not doing this.

She's not passing me to Aunty, your uncle or to daddy.

It's gonna be her.

I went directly from the source, you know.

And so he start started refusing the bottle.

And so, you know, me shooting Lovecraft Country or Birds of Prey doing stunt rehearsal, he's right there, you know, in the trailer or at rehearsal, and I had to have help, and I felt so much guilt about the fact that, like, oh my gosh, I got to go and do this scene.

It's a really emotionally challenging scene.

So for the next hour or so, I need him to stay in the trailer.

He can't com on set because he can't see Mommy.

Like that, right, Like you need to focus and I.

Need to focus, and I need to do your right, I need to do my work.

But I dealt with a lot of mom guilt that wasn't processed and I didn't really know where to put it.

And it really was that philosophy of that book of giving yourself the approval to feed into your well, to do your to pursue your passions, to take the bath where you need to take the bath, to go to target when you need to just have alone time, right or whatever.

That thing is giving yourself the approval to do that, knowing that if you don't, you will run out of gas.

And that doesn't help him, and that helps no one.

That serves no one.

There's no Mommy Olympics, there's no reward that you're winning at the end of the year, exactly as it's sacrificing.

Yeah, exactly, and it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.

You need to have endurance in order to be present with him and play with him.

And it's okay, you know, it's okay.

For him to see me pursue my dreams.

It's actually a beautiful thing for him to see the sacrifice that I make for my work and how hard I work.

It's okay for him to see the image of a woman being the bread winner.

It's okay for him to see me being ambitious and passionate and going, baby, you know what.

Right now, Mommy has to go in this room and I have to study this scene.

But when I finish, I'm gonna come out and we're gonna play catch.

Right Like, giving him those boundaries in the parameters I think is healthy.

And I've had to process and give and be kind to myself over the past few years, because of course there's moments where he's like, no, why you you know, And there's sacrifices that my work requires that he make.

Yeah, but there's also a lot of benefits that he gained from from what mommy does and the kind of life I can provide for him, the travel that he's he's been able to be a part of I mean, like he went to the Steve Irwin Zoo in Australia, got a private tour that's a pet of rhino DJ the rhino he got to pet, you know, like all these experiences.

He got to meet Steph Curry last year.

Hello, okay.

And so as he gets older, he's slowly starting to appreciate what I do and actually find respect for it and gratitude.

And that is a real muscle that I'm trying to strengthen in him, which is hard in kids, And it's hard in kids who grow up with a lot, you know, to understand that yo, to whom much is given much as affected.

Right, So like we gotta give back, we gotta go and volunteer, we gotta yeah, we gotta do all these things because look how blessed we are.

Man.

It makes me think about something.

What a crazy sentence I'm about to say.

I don't know.

A month and a half ago, I think we had Michelle Obama on the pod.

I was literally like, what is happening?

And I asked her about motherhood and she said that her mother had this phrase that you know, has echoed for her whole life.

I'm not raising babies.

I'm raising adults, amen, And that thing to to give your kid evolving agency as they evolve, to show them how you move in the world as an adult, as a responsible parent, as a dedicated worker, as a volunteer, as a human that for you, your little boy always knows he can come to like that raises a generation of adults.

And I think about, at least for me, you know, my parents didn't know any of the stuff we know now about how to raise babies, how to talk to them, what to do for them.

They didn't have the language or the tools, and a lot of the research wasn't done yet, you know, all the things.

And I think about the learning and the unlearning that our generation has had to do.

Unlearning is very key.

Unlearn a lot, a whole.

Lot, oh boy.

And I just think about, like how cool our kids are going to be when they're our age because they've just had more resources and information and opportunity to imagine themselves in these spaces they see you or or us in evolution.

It's cool.

Yeah, it's really cool.

Yeah.

Out for our sponsors thinking about family and like, you know, the examples we set you talk about how your mom was the one behind the camera, you know, and it led into this amazing world for all of your siblings.

I mean, six kids and y'all are all in this industry in some facet.

Does that not all anymore?

But at a point, at a point, yes, yes.

When was that this amazing thing when you got to do this show together?

But then as y'all started growing and going out into the world and working in these different arenas, did it almost mean you got to spend less time together as a family.

Oh no, honestly, we were like we were We were like a pack a herd.

That oh you everyone went together, you know.

Like my mom if one of us got a gig, right like a movie or TV show, instead of her flying there.

It got to a point where she would ask the studio for the money that they were going to spend on the flights.

Give her the cash, and she would drive us all there in the suburban.

I mean, she was she was.

She was gangster, you know, she's very strategic, she was very smart.

But also she had no one to watch us we did.

It's not like we had a lot of friends or extended family.

She didn't have people she could leave us with.

And my parents separated when I was twelve, and so I have to say, I think that's one of the reasons why we might.

I'm so close with my siblings.

There's six of us, and I have five best friends in them.

I mean, it's when I say, I can show you my text threads of like the sibling text chain, it just it just girl just comes in.

Everyone's always talking, like the conversation is always you know, We're just so close.

But we were alway had you know.

And if I had an audition, then Jazz was doing my hair and Jake was maybe making the you know, and Jesse was running my lines with me like it.

It really was this this beautiful microcosm of everyone supporting everyone.

There was no jealousy, there was no competition.

It just was not allowed, and everyone was expected to serve the cause, the mission.

And it really was I.

Think about survival because when you think about it, this became the family business.

This became the income.

It became the way we were able to take care of each other.

My father mom separated, like I said, when I was twelve.

He worked for Pacific bell at and t He was a blue collar worker.

He didn't he didn't make enough to support us, and certainly didn't you know, give enough child support to support us.

It became something where it was us kids going out and working and my mom finding us gigs and us living paycheck paycheck in a sense, until you know, my brothers got older and they started working regular jobs to contribute.

But you know it, it was I don't even remember what your original question was.

I feel like I'm going on the tangent.

But I think that's that's one of the beautiful things about very unconventional childhood.

Yes, she was behind the camera, but I learned so much about the industry from her.

You know, she just was so unwilling to sacrifice certain things and unwilling to sell integrity, unwilling to just take things because they were paying really good.

You know, I was offered a number of jobs that she said no to that where it was either with someone who was a really awful person, and it would have put me in a very compromising situation getting me out of a very awful and toxic work environment.

And yes, but like I said before, she was behind the camera.

Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean it's such a lesson in you know, business.

Yes, and remembering like, no matter how cool the set is or the job is or whatever, like it's business and I love that, you know, y'all have been able to stay so close.

I ask because I think about how much I love what we do, but how often it takes me away from the people I want to be close to.

Oh no, it's so true.

It's like, yesterday, my TV show Smoke premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival, which is very exciting, awesome.

It played so well, but it was also the same day of my niece's fifth grade graduation, you know, and so everyone sending me pictures of her, and you know, I'm I tried to face time.

But yes, that for sure is part of the sacrifices is missing out on How many birthdays or primary moments are you missing?

How did it feel to premiere the show here?

It was a full circle moment?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in a number of ways.

You know, when you work on something for so long and then it's like your little secret, it's your little baby that you've birthed, and then you get to share it with the world.

So it was awesome.

It was awesome to watch it in front of an audience and get the feedback and it played incredibly well.

You know, it was quite thrilling.

Yeah, okay, will you tell our friends at home what Smoke is?

So.

Smoke is a crime thriller for Apple TV Plus at premiere is June twenty seventh, created by Dennis Lahane, one of our premier writers.

I mean, I don't know that you can write crime thriller better than Dennis.

And I've been a fan of his since Mystic River and you know, Gone, Baby Gone, and Shutter Island and so many Blackbird which was on Apple as well, But anyway, it's based on true events in which an arson investigator played by Tarren Edgerton is paired with a trouble detective played by myself, and they are assigned to investigate to serial arsonists and through this investigation begin to suspect that each other are not who they can claim to be.

That's so juicy.

Also crazy fun fact because when I was reading up on the show, it centers around John Orr and back in the day, I played his daughter in a movie with Rayleoda.

Wait what yeah?

So of all the like things wait be talking about today?

Guy, it was like, I think it was maybe my second job I was at USC and it filmed in LA and I would drive from class and I would go to shoot this movie and I was on set with Raleiota and John Likeguizamo, who I just.

Who's in our show?

Like?

Come on?

Like this is so it's crazy.

So I'm so excited to see it, you know because as a young actor to think about, like, you know, how do you imagine what this sort of story would do to a kid when this happens in your family?

And now I get to watch my friend be on the adult side investigating it.

I know that's crazy.

I know it's so fun.

Wow full circle.

Come on, Yeah, it's really really it's so cool.

Because he was an interesting person.

Yeah, they're the podcast Firebug that this is loosely inspired by is wild.

If anyone wants to.

Listen to I'm like, wait, I want to listen to that.

You should listen to it.

It's he was writing a book, you know, about an artison investigator who's secretly an arsonist, and so that element is in our show as well.

But it's Dennis really has created of a heightened and fictionalized version of that, and my character is really the birth child of Dennis's mind.

You know, when I met with him, one of the first things he said, one of the earlier things he said to me, was, you know, we all say we want to be happy, and yet why are we consumed by the very things that want to destroy us?

And that's my character in a nutshell.

She is metaphorically playing with fire.

I mean, there are these elements in her life that are just dangerous that she's drawn to.

And it's interesting because I know, I don't know that it's unique to me, but I definitely can see myself and those struggles in the past right like where you are going.

I know this is not healthy for me, but I'm choosing it anyway, and I'm.

Hoping that it doesn't turn out how I'm afraid it will, and it does.

It's like when you're blind, faith or your desire to see the good just bites you in the ass.

Yes.

Yes, And that manifests in so many different ways, totally a toxic relationship.

It could be our toxic, toxic level of ambition being a workaholic.

It could be the childhood.

Trauma that we still have in process and the way that manifests.

And so Dennis has woven all these very complex layers into my character Michelle, who's a detective, former marine who finds herself in a relationship with her boss, who's the captain of the precinct, who's married.

Oh boy who leaves.

His wife for her, only for Michelle to then say she no longer wants to be with him now, and going back to attachment theory, you know, I spoke to a therapist just specifically about Michelle, and she's very much so an avoidant, which I am not.

You know, I've historically I've been attracted to avoidance.

Guilty is charge.

I had a couple of those myself, and.

So it was so fun to weave those elements into Michelle, someone who has she has real childhood trauma, she has a mother wound, a deep betrayal that happened when she was young with her mother, and it was beautiful to be able to weave that in to the way she sees the world, the way she attaches and detaches in those patterns.

Yeah, how do you how do you begin to build a world for a character?

And I like, I want to ask you this question that I like to ask because I know you're a research nerd, and so am I.

So, I'm like, girl, tell me about your good Like, where where do you start?

You know, when you make when you get this information?

Former marine now a detective making bad choices, probably a little addicted to the chase.

You get this nugget, I would imagine, because Dennis is brilliant.

Yeah, her childhood, Like how do you begin to build her house?

I begin answering all the whys and the who, what, where, why?

When?

So that's really where I start.

Yeah, you know, what do I know about her environment?

What does the text tell me?

I fill that in in her biography and any holes that the text doesn't tell me, I go to the source, screenwriter Dennis Lahane in this case, ask him questions pick his brain of Okay, so what happened to her?

What is this?

Why does she do this?

And all the questions he gives me.

Any holes left, I fill in myself through research, through either speaking through experts.

In this case, I spoke to not just therapists, but I spoke to former Marines.

I trained with a former a veteran who served in the military.

Just had to be an expert and weaponry honestly, because she deals with guns a lot.

I interviewed firefighters and arson investigators.

I read the Firebug podcasts, you know, watch documentaries, which then leads you to other films of this topic.

And so honestly, it's really about filling up the well.

And then I also just have several coaches that I work with.

I have a physicality coach, I have, you know, my acting coach.

I have my fitness trainer.

And for this I'm normally journey I can my weight.

I can tend to be a little bit on the leaner side.

And so because she's a form a marine who is working in a very male dominated field, who has a little bit of body dysmorphia, who dealt with insecurity from her weight when she was a child, it manifests through her doing these crazy intense workouts.

So I went to my trainer, Jeannette Jenkins, and was like, I gotta put on muscle.

I gotta put on weight.

And so I put on fifteen pounds of muscle before we started shooting.

By the end of shooting, I had put on twenty pounds.

Wow.

Crazy way of eating of like eating five meals a day.

I was going to say, were you just like taking hard boiled eggs to the face.

Like oh my gosh, and like these protein powders and like the weight gainer shakes, and yeah, just eating in between takes and snacking all the time and trying to have a calorie surplus, but doing it in the right way and the healthy way as much as I could.

I wasn't eating donuts and doing it like that, you know, which I would have loved, but also break out, so I had to like watch the skin, you know, And yeah, it was it was.

It was awesome to be able to just physically transform and feel stronger because that was the goal.

Is Okay, then you feel like this person.

Yes, there's a there's a dominant presence that she needed to have when she walks in her room.

Yes, and you know, how does she what's her posture?

How does she walk?

Like what's her gait?

All those things are affected, you know when you feel stronger, And man, Janette, she got me.

She got me up to I could do a hack squat squat of lifting two hundred and sixty pounds by the time we were done, and she got me feeling incredibly strong.

So that's so cool.

Yeah, we'll be.

Back in just a minute.

After a few words, from our favorite sponsors.

When you think about that, you know, love for research.

One of the things I love about the way you speak about your work is that you're never afraid to shy away from real themes that are in it, especially when you're doing a lot of these historical projects, you know, whether it's the Order or love Craft Country like it.

It offers, I think, the opportunity to share history and even things that are loosely based on history, to invite an audience in and to encourage them not to shy away from who we are from.

You know, and how we got here.

Yes, you can uncover the things that as a society we often want to tuck away, like in the corner.

Keep in the dark.

And how do you kind of layer the historically relevant jobs with your love of process, Like do you ask a director to put you in touch with the historian or is it very much the similar thing where everything you find in the research leads you to another thing and you're just trying to get as much of it in your brain and body as you can by the time the camera roles.

When I did the Order, I did ask them to put me in touch with a few former special agents, which they did.

It depends on the project, and yeah, who can help me and who's a resource?

Production is typically very beneficial in that way and have a lot of resources at their disposal and encourage that sort of research for you.

Yeah, but a lot of it is self motivated, and you're right, it is.

Okay.

It could be a YouTube clip that makes you down a path and then that leads you to something else, And it really comes down to the level of curiosity the individual has.

And I have an immense amount of curiosity about humanity and what drives us and what motivates us.

It just helps me understand my own life more.

And I do think that as part of the reason that I do what I do.

Storytelling to me and art is essential because it helps us understand humanity.

If we understood.

Patterns in history more, I think we wouldn't be where we are today.

I agree with you.

You know, if more of us knew about unfortunately Nazi Germany, right, like, we would be able to recognize real rhetoric and real talk of a dictator.

Currently right wouldn't be saying oh no, it's not that, because it is.

And literally the quotes.

Match, literally match, okay, And so I do feel like it's the job of the artist to just tell the truth.

And how do you tell the truth?

You just do the research, right, you dig deeper, you ask the questions.

And you know what you're carrying into the room with you.

Yes, exactly.

It gives you more confidence.

I find in the times when, like when I was younger and I don't know that I had as much technique as I do now, those moments I think I can watch the work and go, oh, I see why I was there because I didn't know you had to do this and this and this, you know.

But I also have to say I give so much credit to a lot of the individuals I've actually worked with along my career that I just kind of stole there their technique really, you know, asking them questions, Okay, well how do you do this?

Well?

Why do you do this?

And then going all right, I'm gonna try that out.

What's one of the best answers you've gotten to that question, Like from someone you have worked with who you admire, what was a Oh, that's really good.

Denzel Washington, Oh, great debaters.

He directed the film that I was in, and it was like taking a masterclass and he a lot of the tools.

I mean, I literally you know, when you're working with someone like Denzel you better keep a note on notes and literally taking notes every single day of what he says or how he directs me or little nuggets he gives me.

And it was you know him who first told me about this idea of writing a biography for your character.

Knowing everything about your character, even down to the kind of sheets they sleep on, what do they eat for breakfast.

It helps you think like the character, so that on the day, whether you're improving or or not having no dialogue, there's something going on in your head.

Yes, because if you're thinking about the boom operator whose shirt is like rising up as the hoad in the.

Boom, or like sorry, you've got to pull that tea down.

Or if you're thinking about the fact that the director's eating the donut that you wish you could eat right now, but you're not gonna do it.

You know, if your if your head is not actually thinking the thoughts of the character, the camera will see it.

You can just get lost.

And it's and it's it's like a bliss or euphoria, yes, that you are able to feel.

Absolutely it's it's like a feeling of weightlessness.

Yeah, when you're in the flow.

Yeah, it's beautiful when you think about that, like the joy of what we do.

Being in that flow.

You can obviously reflect on the people you've worked with and the sets you've worked on, continued to build your toolkit.

Do you feel like, looking back, there is a role you've played that in hindsight you realize changed you in a way that you didn't expect.

I really have developed a very spiritual relationship to my instrument and I really feel that all of them come to me in a moment that I need them the most, in a moment when there's something in myself I have to exercise through them.

There's something that I'm struggling with, there's a pattern I'm in, or there's a block, you know, in the pipes, And so.

I wouldn't pick one.

I think they're all an evolution and if you pull out one of them, I wouldn't be who I am or where I am today.

Even the bad ones, you know, you learn a lot from the bad ones totally, and even the toxic environments.

Dare I say I learned at a very early age how to recognize toxicity how to recognize how adults enable toxicity being in environments where it's like you know, when you're a child.

In the industry, unfortunately, any child is going to be exposed to certain adult behavior they shouldn't be.

And I learned a way of protecting myself and recognizing it.

And so I am honestly grateful for it all.

Yeah, and that might for some people strike you know, accord as like odd, but I truly am grateful for it all.

It has created me, and it has given me tools in my craft, in my character and my characters, but like my actual character, it has built my own character.

You know, Yes, I feel that.

Too, And you know yes, working with wonderful people teaches you where to set the bar.

But the toxic experiences I do think are invaluable.

Would I wish them on anyone, but what it teaches you, you know, I know I.

Know what to look out for.

In a way I could not had I not seen the bad side.

I am a better co star and producer because I know what bad ones look like.

Yes, And I do think if you choose to take what you wouldn't wish on someone else, and what maybe you wish you didn't have to experience, but turn it into a learning.

At exactly fuel you and it can.

Actually support people around you in an even better way.

Yes, And that I just think is how we figure out how to make lemonade out of lemons.

Right, Yes, And I really I feel it's so important for us to lift up the ones who are not that way.

I remember I was doing the Burial with Jamie Fox.

He is who's lovelier than him?

I mean, come on, come onliest, the loveliest, generous, I mean, pours into everyone.

He produced it along with his producing partner Tatari Turner and Fox Hold their company produced it.

They made sure that the majority, if not all, of the department heads were women.

It was a woman director and writer woman DP like, I mean, unbelievable set.

Right.

But there was a moment we were doing a scene and there was someone on set who disrespect did a crew member, and Jamie stopped the take and he gave a long speech about how we will not tolerate anyone disrespecting anyone.

There is no rank.

We are all linked.

He said, it was so beautiful to see this man who's I mean, this man is so talented.

He's a freaking alien.

He's so talented, but to see him hold everyone accountable in such a gracious and beautiful way.

I mean, it was a moment I'll never forget.

Like as great as his performance is in that movie, and it is phenomenal, and I loved you know, it's a joy to work alongside him.

It was that one moment that I will remember the most though.

That's what makes you love him forever, right right?

Yeah, absolutely, And I just say, beauty.

Of what he does, it's the beauty of who he.

Is, amen, And it's why he can have longevity.

It's why he can have you know, he's at the top of the top of the game still, right and having done it for decades.

And so yeah, I think I think all of the experiences I welcome because it has taught me and it has made me grow.

Yeah, I love it.

Well, when you think about what's next, I mean, like you said, the you know, the show premierees, it's like your baby goes out into the world.

But also it's it's done.

You know, it's finished, and then you're onto the next, whether it's a personal thing or a professional thing.

Like as you look out at what's coming, what feels like You're a work in progress.

That's really good.

I really am on the vision board.

It is about becoming very intentional with stepping behind the camera, producing, directing, ushering forward store worries whether I'm in them or not.

I don't need to be the but like helping to expand the gaze of who gets to tell our stories, who gets to define who we are as women, who we are as others?

Right, Like, I am not interested in continuing to complain about the problem if I'm not going to help solve it.

And I see that we have come so far in the industry.

You know, I don't know that decades ago I would have been able to even have the opportunity to play a role like Michelle in Smoke, who is so layered and complex and flawed.

It would have been you mean, she wasn't described as likable girl, I write the word to the ground right, right.

And that she can be many things, and she can make really questionably ambiguous, she can make morally ambiguous choices right, and and she doesn't have to be all knowing or all strong.

I mean the strong strong women.

Come on, I'm over it.

A strong black woman, I like bored with it and can just.

Give me flaws because flaws are truthful.

Let us be messy, let.

Us be messy, let us break the law, let us, you know, run away from the person we should actually be with.

Let us do all the self sabotage of the world.

Because I want to see myself up there.

I want my niece to see herself up there.

I want my friends to see themselves up there.

Like I'm not interested in the girlfriend who has to be the ear for the man's plot being pushed forward, right, But I'm also not interested in the robot who's all powerful and all good, because none of us are, you know.

So that is my intention is to work with filmmakers and collaborators who push me, who helped me grow.

I just want to continue to grow and be better.

Growing up, my mom always had me reading these biographies of the greats like Catherine have burned me, you know, her autobiography, and studying their patterns.

And you're not going to have longevity if you stay stuck and rigid and doing the same thing.

How are you evolving and changing?

And That's what I'm interested in, being a work in progress.

I love it.

Well.

Congrats on the show and all the things.

Really happy for you.

Thank you.

I'm very very proud of you.

This is a beautiful platform you have.

Yeah, it really is.

We enjoy it.

We got good people over here.

Come back anytime.

I will be back, Okay,