Hey, everyone, it's Sophia.

Welcome to Work in Progress.

Well, hello, Whipsmarties.

We have someone on the podcast today that I have such a talent crush on.

I'm geeked that he's here.

From playing incredibly hilarious characters like Buster Bluth on Arrested Development to Gary Walsh on Veep, we are joined today by Emmy winner Tony Hale, who is here to talk about a pretty profoundly different and deeply personal role that he's playing in the fantasy drama feature film Sketch.

What really struck me about it is the movie exists in this fantastical world, Tony's daughter's drawings come to life and kind of wek havoc on a town, but they wind up bringing the family closer together.

And Tony isn't just the star of Sketch, the great dad on screen.

He was a driving force behind the scenes, co producing this movie and fighting for eight years to get it made.

Today we're going to talk about that journey, how you really stay loyal to your creativity and your hunches about what you want to do, His journey as a performer, as an anxious person, as a father.

Tony is so self reflective and authentic and funny and just genuine.

Oh what a gem.

Let's dive in with Tony him.

Hello for you, I'm great and thank you so much for your flexibility and congratulation ends.

Sketch is so beautiful.

Did you get a chance to see it?

Yes?

They sent me the screener and I I just love it.

At one point I paused the movie and I ran out.

My partner was doing some work, and I was like, I know you're working.

I need you to look at this.

I just need you to look at this.

This is so amazing and it was really I can't I felt like I couldn't wait to share it with people.

So I can't imagine how you feel about it.

Yeah, that means a lot, man, that means a lot.

It's it's it's taken us eight years to get it made and we uh just I mean, you know, I mean the business is so easy getting a film to you know, Yeah, but it's like finding financing.

And people either thought it was going to when we pitched it.

They either thought it was going to be like The Bob a Duke but then it had it was kind of funny, or they thought it was like bomb Snowbits got some emotional depth, so they couldn't really grab the vision of it, which I get.

And then just having it released, it's a very like, uh, take care of my kid kind of a feeling, you know.

Yeah, I'm really proud of it.

So I appreciate you watching it.

I'm so excited for you.

It really made me think.

You know, normally when people come on the show, the very first question I ask them is the one I'll ask you.

If you could, like fold space time for an afternoon and today, you could walk onto a playground and hang out with your eight year old self, do you think you'd see the man you are in that kid?

Do you think that kid's interests if you got to watch him play or talk to him about what he was into, would track for your career?

And it's a crazy question to post to someone who literally made this beautiful movie about the inner world of a child.

Yeah.

First, so I love that question.

I love unique questions, So I really appreciate that.

Oh thanks.

Who.

I gotta be honest, I don't think it hasn't been until probably the last five years to therapy that I've like kind of liked that kid, you know, I mean that's super kind of deep and cheesy.

But I was just kind of like that kid was kind of obnoxious and just you know, just how much attention he could get and I wasn't crazy about him.

And then just kind of, much like I've done with a lot of my emotions, kind of invited them to the table rather than trying to kind of, you know, compartmentalize them.

That's been helpful of like, yeah, it's a kid who Yeah, he was kind of as we all do.

You know, middle school is like a piece of hell and so dismanaging.

You know, he was doing what he could to get through it, and I think it was more of just like I would.

I can definitely see the pattern that has developed.

I can definitely see how the whole map has been put together and how it definitely started there.

I mean, I was a very anxious kid.

It's kind of beautiful how that anxiety has used in today's work that i've you know, or that I've been able to put out, which is great.

So I've seen the whole kind of patch making of the quilt.

But back then you're just like in survival mode, you know, So it just kind of me alongside him being like Hey, it's gonna be okay, you know, just you're doing your best.

I think one thing one thing I do tell I mean, I'm sure you've talked a lot to like you're younger actors, and they always ask your advice.

But I would say, like, just so you know, the value you have today is going to be the exact same value you have after whatever success you think is like success that your value doesn't change.

Yeah, I think I lived my life and this business is in a way of like, you will have value when this happens.

You have value when this happens.

Yeah, even the way, even though in my mind I know that's not true, the subconscious can believe that, you know, and totally confirmation of like, yeah, my value is the exact same is when I was back in middle school.

It hasn't changed absolutely well.

And I think you see that on such a large scale, right, Like you know, you look around the world and this sort of runaway, runaway capitalism, if you will, Like you see all these people who have everything they could ever want of value and value that they could never spend or use, who still aren't satisfied.

And so what you're saying is really it's really hitting me because and maybe it's the stage we're all in in life, right, Like when people have gone through career shifts or divorces or moved across the country or whatever the big change is, and you realize like, oh, yeah, anywhere I go, I'm still there.

My problems are still there.

Hopefully my joy is still there, but like, oh, I really do.

I have to get to know me.

I have to deal with me.

And I don't think it's an accident that so many people are dealing with their own unique version of this same situation.

There's a universality to it.

Oh yeah, there's also I mean, I love you said that because there's a there is a tremendous weight that we put on these kind of whatever that big thing is.

I mean, I've talked about this so much.

Do you ever talk about something so much?

And you're like, people are so tired of me?

You think about it?

But yes, but then I have to remind myself that much like today, whatever you're about to say, I haven't heard you say.

Okay, well that makes me feel better.

And there might be something I've said a thousand times that's new information to you.

There's probably fans of both of ours that are like, shut the up, you keep repeating this, but oh well, you know, we're just two humans hanging out on oom.

It's probably pretty narcissistic of me to think that everybody listens to anyone.

Every single person knows every single thing I've ever said and.

They're counting them.

But I when I booked Arrested Development, that was my That was I all when I was in New York, you know, just trying to make it quote, make it.

Being on a sitcom was like it for me.

It was like if I can I remember back then, we had pilot season, if you remember, and it was it was like the season where everything gets made, and that pilot season would always run by me and I'd be like, damn it, you know, I missed pilot season.

And then I booked it and I realized that it did not satisfy me the way I thought I was going to satisfy me, and it really really freaked me out because I got, you know, I was fortunate enough to get my quote dream and it didn't satisfy I was like, oh shit, this is where to now and it was and then after that was canceled, when I kind of kicked into therapy, and I just realized like that whole thing of like, if you're not practicing content me where you are, you're not going to be content when you get what you want.

And I had not been practicing contentment, you know, all my time in New York.

I mean not that, not that I didn't love my time in New York, but anytime I was going through stuff, I was like, you know what, whatever, that big thing's come and that big things came in and I gave it much weight, way too much weight, and match that weight.

Yeah, and it's like putting too many eggs in one basket.

Right, we understand why that's bad or should be observed or however you define it in a relationship.

You know, you hear you want you want to be happy with someone but not co dependent.

But nobody talks about codependence with your career expectations or your personal goals.

And it's kind of striking me that that's sort of what it feels like, you think, like, you know, it's the it's the work version of like once I meet you know, my my Prince Charming from the Disney movie, Everything's going to be amazing, And it's like, yeah, somebody still has to do the dishes, actually, so good luck.

Yeah, And there's also a big difference what I'm learning with codependency and healthy dependence.

Yeah, we need each other.

We're made community, We're made for relationships.

And I've i've I jokingly harp on codependency a lot because it's a strong, strong than my history.

But like, it doesn't mean I'm supposed to be massively independent or.

Isolated, well, because that's not good either.

That's not good either.

There is a balance of healthy relying on each other, you know, and.

And where the reliance feels like joy, where it feels like love totally, you know how nice, Like what a what a thing?

I'm curious, you know, when you talk about that early success with Arrested, it's really interesting because it makes me realize something like when I was working on my first show, which similar thing, right like in the early opts, you book a WB show like right after Dawson's Creek, you know, what a thing.

But then our show also got relentlessly made fun of because it was high tabloid culture the soup loved to talk about and to be perfectly clear for our listeners, we were doing a really dumb shit on that show, so like they deserve to make fun of it.

But in a weird way, it gave me the opposite thing where I was doing this thing that was largely pretty amazing and kind of ridiculous, but ridiculous is fun, and I got so almost allergic to liking it or thinking it was good and only as a pandemic project.

Rewatching the show for a podcast with my friends, cause like how could we work and what were we all doing?

Anyway, we were like, wait, this a lot of this is actually really good.

Like occasionally, you know, a dog eats a guy's heart on the way to the hospital transplant, Like that's ridiculous, but actually, these emotions, these actors, Like I even looked back at myself and I was like, oh my god, you really ate up that scene, okay, And I've been able to kind of enjoy it in a way I didn't.

Then, are you at a point where you can go back and look at the those things and just love them and love your time on them, or.

Yet I think, I'm man, it's a it's a tough one because it's it's it's hard for me to watch it and not constantly think how the sausage was made or how this almost the feelings that I was going through.

I mean I was so overwhelmed arrested, which, by the way, I would not have been able to play job on that show because he was super confident.

Thankfully, I was playing like a very overwhelmed you know character was having panic attacks every other day.

So I mean that worked, but I I think I was I was so honestly, it's I related.

I relate it to that kid in middle school, like it's taken me a little time to kind of be like I get you.

I'm getting there with that time, unarrested because I was just in this uh really really, I never been on a stage.

I've never been a lot.

I just asked a lot of stupid questions.

I mean I was just kind of overwhelmed.

So I think there's a little bit of a not embarrassment, but kind of But then again, and also maybe I gave a lot of power to people that I probably just that I probably should not have given in just the business in general, you know, so kind of that's where I go back.

I'm like, God, I really gave that personal a lot of power, you know, that kind of stuff.

But that's Those are the regrets I have.

But in terms of the work I do really.

I mean, like my favorite joke on the show is Tobias joining the Blue Man Group because he thinks it's a support group of depressed men.

I mean, I think that is so later, and like him trusting he was my Him and Job were probably my favorite characters.

Will Arnett was just you know what, I'm circling back.

But it's like I think watching other people on that show, it gives me I love me, but for people.

Yeah, and Deep is a different story because it happened later and so that I have no issue.

I mean I enjoy that.

And I love watching bluep of reels because oh I love that.

That's what I remember.

I remember just not being able to keep it together.

I mean, you know that feeling like when your whole body is shaking and you're just like, I I'm really trying my hardest, but I'm I'm not gonna be able to make this and I know the camera's on me, and I guess I'm gonna lose it.

That kind of feeling.

I love watching that stuff.

Yeah, Oh it's such a joy too, Like whether it's you or someone you love to watch.

Watching Somebody Break really is one of my favorite, like favorite moments.

That I mean, I don't know if you grew up you're younger than me, but the Caroburnett Show was a big influence on me.

And they would always Harve Tim Conway trying to break up Harvey Korman just and you can just see the pain in Harvey Korn.

It's so good and it's so freeing.

It's such a moment of accidental joy where it's yeah, nothing is planned, They're just free and you're like, oh, I watched that.

I just I was telling somebody recently, it's like I would love a comic con for just bloopers like I just to like just be absorbed, and I love it.

We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors.

Is that so surreal to you?

Because when you talk about VEEP, I think about that that level of complete political absurdity that you all were portraying.

And half of the days of my week now when I look at the news, I'm like, is this a headline from the Onion or is this the New York Times?

Like what's happening?

Is it?

Is it surreal?

To you, are you like, oh god, in some woo woo world, like did we manifest?

This?

Is this the secret come to life?

Like that's so good?

I do, I do.

But what's even more surreal is I remember an episode where Selena was she tweeted something accidentally and we were all like she we were all freaking out.

And Trump lives on Twitter, you know, stuff like that.

Yes, and you're like, wait a second, we were we thought this was extreme, and now you know, CNN is its own political sitcom.

You know, it's that kind of And that's I think partly why we or they stopped.

I mean, I would have kept going because I love them so much, but it was there was nothing.

Everything was had just become its own farce, you know, wild.

I mean, I'd love to go back, but I think it just got things got too extreme.

Oh my god, I would give anything, please bring it back.

But I yeah, it is.

It is kind of.

It must be a wild feeling to have read scripts for that show and gone, okay, well, no one would really do this.

And now you see what's actually on the internet from the literal president, and you go, oh, if we'd written a fraction of that.

The heads of the studio would have said we were being insane and it could never.

Go on the air totally.

And I think that's exactly what it happened.

That the writers would be like, if we had written a character like this easily, the note would have been too broad.

This is great, we've gotten away from our because we're always trying to ground it somehow.

And it's like, two, a cartoon character is, you know, kind of out there.

It's so nuts to me.

It's like, we live in the family.

Guy.

Do those things do you think they strike you more deeply?

Perhaps because of the way that you grew up, because when I think about when I look at the movie and this that you play, and then I think about some of the things that you've talked about in the ways you grew up and the ways you came into the work.

And you know, your dad was a physics teacher and suddenly science is under attack, your mom was involved in politics, and then you did Beep, and now a cartoon character is the president, Like how does it all kind of how does the dust settle for you in your experience when you look around at all of this.

I mean, it's the first thing I thought about when you said that is there is an irritation component of man, there's I mean, honestly not to like.

For instance, my faith is important to me and I grew up in a kind of a conservative environment, and many times there is an association with my faith with a certain party and it's if anything, I just go, ah, that's not the faith I'm experiencing, you know, Like Christ says the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.

That that's the fruit of someone following God.

I can't find one of those in a person that is associated with with my faith.

That's you know.

And I kind of I mean not to get too political, but it's like that's when I get just speaking of weep and I remember doing a storyline where my character was kind of connected to kind of the faith component, and I it was I that whole narrative, not the narrative of the show, but just the narrative those out there is really frustrating.

You know.

It's a very powerless feelings sometimes because I'm like, wait a second, this isn't tracking, you know, totally.

Yeah, that was a total tangent, But that when you were talking about that.

That's where my mind went immediately went no, but I think.

That's really powerful, the kind of incongruous nature of the like preachers with private planes telling us to deport people and take food away from children.

You're like, whoa, this is literally the opposite of what I learned.

I feel confused, and it is surreal.

I you know, I feel really lucky.

I grew up my mom like deep Catholic family.

My dad grew up in a sect of Christianity and became an atheist, and the entire rest of my family is Jewish, and so I've done like all of the religious studies, which I adore.

And it is that incongruous experience of watching people tell you.

It's like someone saying to you, I promise the sky is green, and it says so in this book, and you're like, but it doesn't.

It literally says the sky is blue.

And also the sky is blue and I can see it and what And it's so it's so confusing.

But what I think, this is going to be a wild connection.

But this is what's coming into my mind, and I hope you'll ride this train with me.

What I think stands out so powerfully even in this very funny, strange, hybrid authentic and heartbreaking but still so light in its moments movie you've made.

Is that the whole thing really is about a hero's journey and a group of people learning to tell each other the truth even when it's hard, and that to me is kind of a spiritual thing.

Yeah, that's that's really powerful because I when you were talking, I just immediately thought about the world the word control, where it's the people are just trying to control a narrative or doing things and say like this, and it's like, listen, stop pointing the finger.

You got to point the finger back at yourself.

Like we've got to start.

I mean just like that's bad.

That's bad.

It's like, no, let's let's just start taking care of our own six feet and be like what am I?

What do I need to work on?

Who do I need to love?

If we start doing that, then that might cause some kind of a change, the change that you're trying to If you do that, then I might start doing that.

But it's like in the movie the dad who I play, you know, he really thought compartmentalizing grief was kind of the best thing to do, so if I can control it.

If I cannot, because he leaves me his wife in the movie, and I mean I get it.

I mean I've I've got a nineteen year old daughter.

I do not want her to walk through challenges I don't want to field.

I mean, I want her to be happy and all that hit that impulse.

But if I tried, he in the character of the movie, you know, doesn't have pictures of her in the house.

He really talk about his wife, he and in his he really thinks this is the equation to save the situation, when in actuality, he's got to let go of that control and allow his kids to process them the way they're going to process them.

That's how they're going to get through it.

And I feel like, you're right, that's kind of this.

What's happening is like in people's mind, they think, no, if I do this, if I try to control this, that's going to be the equation.

Now you gotta let go of that control and process it your own way and back at yourself.

Yeah, it's like that adage.

You know, when I point the finger at you, there's three fingers pointing back at me.

Yeah, it's a nice reminder.

I think when you talk about the movie and for our friends at home, Sketch was released yesterday.

How do you feel now that it's out in the world.

I mean, you talked at the top of our conversation about putting eight years of effort into getting this movie made.

What's it like to have an eight year old in the world for the last twenty four hours.

How do you feel?

Well?

Thanks for First of all, that's really kind of you to watch it and talk about it.

I uh.

I think it goes back to that control.

It's like I am powerless to how people.

I love it so much.

It's it means so much to me I and I really want people to experience the joy that I have experienced from it.

Yeah.

I don't have that control, and I want that control.

I mean I've been doing press for a while and it's hard not to be like, watch Sketch.

I promise you, no love it.

I promise you it's going to make you feel so good fx you.

But it's you know, I don't have that, and so it's now it's just that kind of vulnerability of like, hey, I gotta just let it go.

Yeah.

Yeah, releasing it into the wild is.

Like, oh, it's tough, hard, it's tough.

What drew you to it?

You know?

Because I always think it's good you spoke earlier about how you know you'll talk to younger actors.

I think it's so important to let people know how hard it is and how long it takes to get something made, and for you to stick by this thing for close to a decade.

When did it come to you?

How did it come to you?

What made you say, you know, come hell or high water.

I am going to get this movie out, Like, why do you think it got in you like that?

I don't know if you're fear like this too, I don't know.

I don't know, but something just kept because you know, eight years ago, when Seth Worley, the writer and director, brought me kind of half the script, I was like, dang, because I knew his history with special effects, and even even in the movie, she's drawing things out of chalk or crayon or sharpie or glitter, and you can see the textures and the monsters when they come to life.

Yes, and I just loved his detail of that.

And then at the same time, being a dad, I was like, I got the there's a new term called snowplow parenting, where it's not helicopter parenting, but you want to move all the challenges in front of your kid.

You want to just snowplow them away.

And I get that.

I fully get that, and I when I saw it, I was like, oh, man, I like the idea of not only a kid watching this and feeling seen that, Like, yeah, we all process feelings differently, but parents just given themselves a break, you know of like, yeah, he is a learning curve.

Of course this dad thought he was doing the right thing, and everybody else is like, whoa, let your kids feel, Let your kids feel.

But in his mind he's like, no, we got to move.

Like he just was in survival mode, you know.

So I liked I resonated with that.

But yeah, to the what to your question of it's hard, it's crazy man, this and you can relate to this.

I mean we've both done work and at the time it looks like working all the time, when in actuality, there's months in between those jobs where you're hining for work.

You're like, when's the next job and how is this going to be received?

And you're gig to gig, you know, you're calling your agent and you'll be like, hey' is anything going on?

What's happening.

It's like there is a I've been doing this for thirty years and there's you know, there's just there was a season actually after arrest of development, where we thought we were gonna have to sell our house because we were like, we don't know if I remember the month that arrest had got canceled, we bought a house and my daughter was born.

So this was, you know, almost two years ago, and I turned to my wife and I was like, I don't I don't know what to do.

I don't know what and so we kind of kept going and gigs weren't really flying that much, and I was and we've talked to our kind of our financial consultant, be like, do we think we need to sell the house, And he's like, we're not there yet, but it might be coming, you know, And you're like, you know, you just but that's kind of and then you kind of take funds from other things and you make it work.

But it is a bit of a piecemeal together.

Koreer and as you, I mean, we both know this business.

This man is I so many times people have said, hey, you just can't take it personally.

You just can't take it personally.

It's hard to not take a personally.

Yeah, right, it's tough.

One of the craziest things about that to me as an actor is our entire job is to be so raw and so empathetic that we can feel another person's feelings and portray them as our own.

Yeah, and then we get our feelings hurt and people are like, don't let it hurt your feelings.

I'm like, are you nuts?

Are you?

Are you nuts?

It's like the weird misnomer.

It's like the comment section people on the internet are like, look at how many this point, this many million.

You must just have people kissing your ass.

I'm going to be doubly mean to you.

And it's like, so you're just doubly mean.

I'm just running into doubly mean people all day and I'm not supposed to let it affect me.

I'm like a sensitive little smush.

What do you mean, I'm like moving around in the world like a snail without a shell.

I'm built.

That's your job too, Like you have to you got to access these feelings, and you're right, you can't turn them off when somebody says words like it, it does and when somebody says like if you're going for me, if I'm going out for a job, and someone's like, yeah, you weren't right?

What's that?

What what I'm like?

But what do you mean?

What do you mean?

And it's also the sense of like, I sure i'd loved I know, I know that it's I wasn't right, but it's it's tough to not feel it.

You get well, yeah, because then you think, but what could I have done that would have been right?

Totally, totally totally.

And you know what I've started to do.

Here's here's a little nugget.

I don't know why it's helping, but this came out of a conversation with one of my best friends where we were talking about why is the negative weigh so heavy and the positive way so light?

Why why isn't everything just for a pound of flesh if you will?

And we were like, Okay, how do we take the things that feel hard and put a little humor on them?

Or a little something you don't get a job, or you don't get the thing, or something doesn't go your way, like how do you take your power back a little bit?

And what we've both started to do is, you know, will vent about something or be sad about something and then be like, oh, well, sucks for them.

I'm so fun, and like that's the end of it.

I'm so fun.

I'm such a good time.

I bring good snacks, like whatever dumb thing any of us can think of.

And it's funny because none of my best friend and like the little group that we do this with on a on a group chat, like none of us work in the same industries.

Yeah, but we're all experiencing our own versions of the same thing.

And I'm just like, sucks for them, I'm a good time.

And that's then I get a little bit of it back.

No, great that I'm so fun, Like I was saying that, because oh my god, I'm so fun.

I'm so fun.

Because the amount of other talk give ourselves.

Yeah, that that that closet that like packed full of shame is full.

You know, it's totally I can just completely rip myself apart and take my court and constantly, you know, all the all the time, those little things like I'm so fun, we just don't even saying it.

There's a lot of power in kind of putting a label on it, that's like yeah, I mean.

Even in this conversation me to you, I'm like, Tony, you're brilliant and like you're a good time, You're a good hang.

It must be really, it's so nice to be smart and fun.

Take it with you, dub.

Mercy, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

I like that.

I really love you're doing a podcast, by the way, because I think you're really good at this.

Thanks.

You know what for a person who's like absolutely a little bit on the spectrum, who wants to have deep talks and who always no matter what, like I would tell I would say like six out of nine, six out of ten times I go to a thing, I don't know what happens.

I don't know if I like, if I have a little bit of some sort of energy that I can't help but let seep out into the world.

I wind up in a corner and somebody's like telling me their deepest, darkest secrets.

We're unpacking what's going on in their relationship or with their family or whatever.

And I kind of love that.

But I also realize occasionally where I'm like, ooh, I'm having like a really I'm having that little like ADHD with the Wing experience where I ask a question and I'm like, ooh, the room.

One other person's there with me, but like the other four people in this conversation are like, that's kind of a lot.

I realized a podcast gives me the container within which to ask questions, to let conversations be as deep as they want to be.

And and I love it.

I just love it.

And like, I don't know, maybe it's because I grew up begging my mom to pick me up early from school so i'd be home before Oprah started, not ten minutes after.

It's after her show started, so I could just watch her like talk to people about their lives.

You know, that's cool.

But I love it.

You always had, you always walk into that permission of being like, this is always going to be that conversation that's nice.

Yeah, And if it's and if it's light and we're like laughing and being stupid the whole time, great.

Sometimes it's a hybrid.

Sometimes it's really serious and I like getting to meet people where they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of COOLT Holmes calls.

He says, some people have to tell you tell me your pain face and I totally just like there's an openness to like your face or that it's like people feel free to like just tell me the pain, which you know, I also really enjoy that.

Try not to fix it, that's the challenge.

That's that's tough.

But yeah, it's hard for me because I want to be like, oh, well, this is what I went through, and it's like, no, why don't you just listen Tony.

Yeah.

Another one that I got from my therapist, which is really good, is when I can feel that urge coming to say, quick question, do you want to talk about how to solve it?

Or do you just need someone to listen to the problem.

And if I can know myself well enough to ask that question, then the person I'm talking to can tell me what they need and in a weird way, then I don't feel like they want me to fix something.

And if they do, I'm like, you trusted me with that?

Yay.

That's actually I lose that on my daughter.

That's really in my wife because we you know, like I do have that compulsion to be like oh, especially with my daughter, like I've been through this and it's like, no, I want me do you want a solution?

Right now, do you want my thoughts on a solution or do you want me just to listen totally?

And it's nice for them, and it's nice for you because I get the sense, you know, maybe anxiety recognizes anxiety.

It's like the less cool version of like game recognizes game.

Yeah, Like, I'm like, if I don't know what someone needs, I actually can get a little anxious listening because I have all these thoughts and I don't know when it's appropriate to say which one, And weirdly asking them the question makes it easier for them and also so much easier for me.

So it's kind of nice.

It's like a double gift.

You know.

As a dad being in this position, I can't imagine what it's like to have a kid that's, you know, nineteen twenty who's out in the world.

Because to your point of course, you want to remove obstacles and difficulty from your children's lives, your child's life, but they learn resiliency by encountering problems and solving them.

And so the duality of that, I imagine, two decades into doing it is pretty intense.

Knowing about your personal struggles with anxiety, you know, your your own experiences processing your childhood.

How do you feel like you can look back at your history and then forward at what you watch your kid do and figure out how to how to parent.

Yeah, that's a tough one because I mean I wouldn't just like both of us, probably, I wouldn't be who I am without everything I've gone through.

Yeah.

In fact, like there's no way I would not have empathy.

I mean all that kind of stuff is the result of what I've been through.

But it's like, man, it's like that that knowledge in me turns off with her, Like it's just I just there is a there's a when they're growing up, there's a big difference between a performance cry and a real cry.

You know, like because I had that cry, we're just that kind of you know, like there's a little bit of like I need some attention or I need you know, whatever it's it's but when there's a real genuine cry and that you can see their feelings will hurt.

Oh, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

And to this day, like when she's really I mean she obviously the performance cries go away when they're little, but it's like anytime she's hurt or I can see that paint.

It's just there is Oh, it's just that you just want to rescue them, just constantly ecue them.

And she has got to walk through it, she's got to feel it, and I've just got to come over her and listen, like to your point and not give a solution unless she asks.

And man, there's just I don't even I don't even know.

I just take a day to day.

I mean, she's actually come home.

She's been working in a camp as a counselor for the past month and a half and so.

She said, I did that.

I loved being a camp counselor.

She loves it.

It was the same camp that she's been going to for like ten years.

And yeah, she's coming home tomorrow and oh man, it's both my wife and I are just like we're super but at the same time, you want to give them space and you know, yeah, it's been kind of in performance mode for a month and a half and so like totally have her space.

But it's just like hei, hi, hi, hi.

You're like, oh my god, I missed you so much.

I don't want you to know how much, but it's so much.

I don't know.

That's so sweet.

The day to day thing of like just really trying to check myself.

You know, well that and I don't want to give any spoilers away to the movie, but you know, also being an adult anxious asthmatic kid.

Who is You're an asthmatic kid, you are too, I know.

It's really I was like, I could always tell.

There was something tribe look at it.

Yeah, yeah, but there's like this really cool thing that happens.

I'm trying to think of how to reflect on it without spoiling anything for our audience.

A scene in your film with you and the wonderful young actress who plays your daughter by the lake or the pond, however we classify it, and you really see each other and you get to explain some things to her and she gets to explain some things to you, and it's so beautiful.

And maybe the reason I thought about it this way is because my therapist is really worth every penny I pay him.

But I was like, oh, this is one of those moments where some part of me gets reparented by watching a by watching what's happening between a parent and a child.

Yeah, and I know that when you have kids, you know, I've got little kids in my life.

You get these opportunities parenting them, assisting them that sort of reparent something in you.

Did this?

Did this movie feel like that for you?

Yeah?

It did.

I mean the other actor, Q Lawrence, who played my son, and.

They were both unbelievable kids.

Such good kids.

You know, one thing that I really connected to was just the dad.

There's a moment when the dad just says, I kind of screwed up.

You know, I really really miscalculated how to process this whole situation.

And you know, I recently actually did that with my daughter.

I'm talking to her and I remember when she was really young and I got kind of mad at her about something and it was just silly.

I was stressed out and she was being a kid, and I remember there's just this moment where I was like, you can't do this, and I could just see that face in her and I said, sweetheart.

And today, like when she was home, I was like, I remember this moment and I'm just so sorry.

I was this was so angry about this stupid thing, and she's like, you know, Dad, I don't even she don't think she even remembered it.

But you know, you just the more and it's hard.

It's hard because there's a part of there's a part of humanity where you feel like if I I'm that weak, then it somehow it's not connected to strength, you know, like they're not gonna they're not gonna see me as whatever that whatever I think a parent needs to be seen as.

And it's like we're if they there's so much prower in the humanity of like, man, I'm just I really I messed that one up, but you know, I love you and I'm doing my best that kind of thing.

I think there's so much power in that that I I, even as a parent, still think I have to reframe like, yeah, there is power in that being that honest.

You know, absolutely, And I'd wager it takes more power, more conviction, uh more wisdom to be courageous and vulnerable in that way than it does to do the quick to anger oh traditional power strength thing totally.

And you know, the fact is my daughter is probably more than likely probably going to be in therapy one day for how having an anxious you know, yeah you know who like was playing crazy characters?

I don't know, but like there's going to be something that is going to deal with and of course, as a part of me that was like, what did I do wrong?

What did I do wrong?

Well, we're human, you know.

I there's no perfection in that.

You know.

That's but that's that's kind of a reality.

That's like, Yeah, that's probably gonna happen.

She's going to be in therapy for something.

I mean, aren't we all?

Yeah, it's okay.

What do you think you know, looking at the kind of land scape of what you're processing as a person, what you're releasing into the world as a professional, you know, even the fact that you're you're about to get your kid back from summer camp, Like there's so much happening in every sphere.

What at this point feels like your work in progress, the thing you want to tackle next, or maybe the thing you're going to tackle forever.

Yeah, you know, I got this question recently.

Sounds super cheesy, but I'm just going to say it.

It was during an interview and they can ask what's next?

They said what's next for you?

And I said, honestly, now I'm going to turn into Oprah.

But I said, honestly, at this stage of my life, Uh, there's I'm really trying to ask myself what's here?

Because I don't.

I've been just for so long.

And there's nothing wrong with ambition, there's nothing wrong with dreaming, there's nothing wrong than you know, obviously planning and looking to the next thing.

But so much of my life has been devoted to that of just thinking next and you know, wondering what's next, and I just haven't really taken the time to look around and ask myself, what's here?

You know, what's going on here?

What's where am I?

Because those times when I do that is the things that I actually remember, ironically, you know, when I do take the time to look around and what's your life?

My wife and I joke that we've been married for twenty two years and neither one of us remember our weddings because we just weren't.

We kind of remember it, but it's like I was so distracted and I was so like, I don't know, just this kind of whirlwind, and I don't think either one of us were very present.

And now it's like taking deep breast and kind of looking around and hey, what's here, what's here?

That's kind of what I'm asking myself.

So all that to say, I feel like it's been kind of going for these heightened experiences, and I've missed the power of kind of the every day, the power of the power of the ordinary.

You know, life is fast.

I'm fifty four years old.

I just you know, started when I was twenty five, and it's like it's fast, and I just, you know, I I don't want to I don't, not in a sense of regret.

But I think most of the power and life is in the ordinary, is in the every day, in relationships, not in these big mountaintop experiences.

And I'm always looking to what's next.

It's just not you know.

So I as I get older, I want the power to really surface more in those every day Yeah.

I love that.

What's here.

That's a good work in progress, Tony, That's a good one.

It's hard, though, I love it.

My therapist says, I have to You have to wake yourself up one hundred times a day to where you are.

And it's true.

I just constantly to wake myself up because my head is somewhere else, Like it's checked into either anxiety, it's checked into dreaming, it's checked into whatever, and it's like I gotta check in to now, I gotta check in.

It's beautiful.

Where can all of our friends at home watch sketch.

Ye at theaters it opens?

It opened yesterday, and uh yeah, they can watch it hopefully at a theater.

Are you it's I think it's opening to like about two thousand screens.

Amazing.

So I'm just amazing stoked, and you know, and I first of all, I really appreciate you doing this.

This is so nice.

Oh my gosh, thank you?

Are you kidding?

It's It's a joy to have you on the show.

I would like to volunteer myself as tribute for whatever project you're doing next, even if it takes eight years.

I'm down.

I'm a real I'm a I'm a like a dog with a bone.

I can be a pain in the ass, which feels like gets stuff made, but also like I'm really fun, you know, like a like a fun pain in the ass.

That's so great.

I just this is a real gift to a lot of people.

You're doing this though, because just being all these conversations, you know, it's an opportunity to kind of get a little deeper