Hey everyone, it's Sophia.

Welcome to Work in Progress.

Hello whip smarties.

Today we are joined by one of my favorite smart, creative, I mean brilliant women, who also happens to be one of the coolest chicks that I know.

Today's guest is actress, writer and director Lake Bell, who is starring in the upcoming series The Chair Company on HBO, and who has just released a book inspired by her daughter.

The book is called All About Brains, a Book about people, and it is a whimsical story that celebrates the ways all of our different brains make us special in a lighthearted and you'll hear me crying emotional exploration of neurodiversity.

The book was inspired by Lake's own daughter, Nova, and we're going to talk about what it's like to be a parent of a brilliant and different kid, what both of our journeys with families look like, and how she views her career as both a personal sense of expression and as a real responsibility.

Because with a platform comes privilege, and Lake is so amazing at mobilizing her privilege for others in really beautiful and inclusive ways.

Let's dive in with Lake Bell.

I was reading so many articles about your audiobook because it fascinates me.

And also I feel like I needed to go back in time a little bit.

And when you were talking about having a voice, like you have a voice similar to I'll.

Say you yeah, you were on the list of unique voices.

Well just in terms of what it was like as a young actor, particularly not sounding like all a little angen news.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was like, oh my god, same girl.

I feel it.

Yeah, well I think it.

I think, you know, definitely, it's more.

It affects more than you realize.

I think it's like, sure, you can look a certain way, you can imbue a certain amount of qualities that isuesque, but then if your sound is different, there's like a juna sequa that might or either get you the role or not get you the role.

Yeah, or have someone even in an interview situation or a meeting a potential partner for the first time, you know, whatever it is, you're like, oh, we're either going to get along or not.

I mean for me, I you know, there's like a vocal chemistry.

I think, yeah, that happens that I can be highly adverse to certain sounds.

Also because my ears, I think are I call.

I say to my kids, I'm like, I have wolf hearing, so you got to take it down or not.

It's the same sensitive sensitive hearing, yeah, which means I'm like picking up on all kinds of you know, vocal little quirks and qualities and things that are you know, what's also what's not there, you know, resonance or like being really tinny, you know, and like pushing.

I'm like, where's your breath?

You know?

Like yeah, like I science of sound and.

Science of sound and the kind of emotional uh sort of qualities that I think really either pull you to someone.

It's like a magnet, you know.

You hear someone's sound and you're like, Ooh, I'm attracted to that sound, or I'm oh god, I'm just repelled by that sound, yeah, which is like sorry, but you know, it just is one of those things.

I think it's almost like pheromones, you know, totally.

I love that well.

And I think about particularly that era we came up in as actors.

We were in the height of sort of sexy baby voice.

Yeah that like Paris hilt any sound Shurtney spears very sexy, very young, very yeah, vile.

And I remember I can't recall.

I think it must have been the maybe the second or third season that we were doing One Tree Hill in Wilmington.

You came to do your show.

Oh yeah, that's right.

We were there together, yes, and I remember hanging out with you.

I don't remember if it was the apartment you were in or one of your castmates that used to be Dennis Hoppers.

It was yours, and I remember just being like, this girl is so cool and I'm so excited to be her friend.

And then your show moved on and then I was there, which was great, but I was there alone mostly, and I was so excited years later to see you again and be like, hey girl, and it was like the rast ones, We're still here.

It is.

It's it's interesting.

And your sound has just now that i'm thinking about your sound, your sound and my sound both have evolved.

Like if we took a clip of us during those earlier years in Williamsburg, Williamton.

What is it, Wilmington, Wilmington, I'm like, Williamsburg Williamsburg would have been cool.

No, in Wilmington, you know, I bet those sounds have you know, you know, the just the color of life, you know has occurred where more rasp has coming out, you know, or you know, also we've arrived in this space to speak in mics, So my my sound, I'm aware of my sound being a little more juicy and a little more liquid than it might be if I'm kind of just you know, talking to my daughter.

I'm like, that's enough, you know, Like maybe I'm not supporting my voice as much when I'm when I'm parenting in in chaos.

But you know, I think all of those things are just so sexy to me, Like you turned me on so much.

I love the things that we don't notice, you know.

And so if we looked back on and listen to our voices in those early episodes of those shows, ipekay would sound different than they are right now.

Oh my god, I would love Well.

That sort of leads me to the question I normally start with with guests, because you know, you come in, you're promoting something, You've written, something, you have a film coming out, whatever it is.

You have this gorgeous career and listeners know you as this person.

And I always am curious if you got to go back in time and hang out with yourself when you were a kid, maybe when you were your daughter's age, would you see yourself in that little version of you?

And because it's you, I also want to know, was that little girl obsessed with sound?

Yes, so I have to say I was like unabashedly precocious and super into dorked out nerdy stuff like that.

And I used to put on these at Nova's age, for sure, maybe even younger, as a procrastination tool to go to bed.

I did not want to go to a night person, and I was like, I gotta entertain the adults.

So it would be that thing of I put on voices and you know, play Harry Bellefonte and you know, throw on an outfit and do a dance number, you know, musical number.

But definitely interested in from an early age being from New York, especially where you are surrounded by, whether you like it or not, just sounds of the city, but then also of a thousand different cultures and a thousand languages, you know, and how people spoke even within New York.

You know, you had just this beautiful cacophony of accents and dialects and languages.

And I think that was very integral to my interest in not just culture but character, you know.

Yeah, So Where do you think that bug came from?

When did you know you were studying people because you wanted to play people?

I think it was super early.

I knew I wanted to be an actor before I understood what it is to be an actor.

I just knew that I wanted to be characters before I knew that word.

I remember in the eighties growing up in the city, there was always movie trucks on the side of the road, and it was usually you know, there would be like Woody Allen movies being shot and whatnot, or I just remember this particular one because I was on the Upper East Side, so you know, he definitely would have lots of things shot there anyway.

So I would be pouting like this in the taxi cab, say, and my mom would say, what's wrong, what's up.

I'd be like, I'm not even in that movie, and she's like, you're six, like you know, and I'm like, yeah, but I didn't even, like, like there's just movies happening, and like everyone's just making fun things and I'm not even invited, and you know, and she'd be like, well, when you grow up, if that's still what you want to do, you know, you get to do that.

So I just remember being like knowing I wanted to do it.

I want to look, that's so fun that thing that they do, and I want to do that.

I want to write stories.

I want to be in stories.

And so you did you have that?

I think I did weirdly, And it was an interesting thing because, you know, it sort of occurred to me more recently somebody asked me why I ride really hard for the crew at work, like you know and not.

It was partially a compliment in the conversation and partially a call out of like, you know, your job is to be focused on your job.

You don't always have to be making sure everyone else has everything they need for their job, like that's kind of their job.

And so it was this neat interesting thing because I was explaining, you know, when you are in a cast, and certainly when you've worked your way up to being in you know, the first four numbers, let alone number one on the call sheet, like you do have to really advocate for your people.

And I think it was a person pointing out to me maybe having a slightly altered percentage of where my focus can go just to ensure that I'm to your point, like taking care of my instrument, doing the things that I really need to do for me as well.

And I think it made me click into what it was like to grow up going to work with my dad a lot, because he was a photographer, you know, his whole career.

I always say he was, and then I'm like, he didn't die, he just is retired.

To my dad, it's scary, but you know, I went to work with a crew dadah, and so I got to see how talent behaved.

I got to see how visiting executives or creative directors behaved, and I got to see how hard everybody else was working and how their behavior affected a set though wasn't often centered, and so I really I cherished that.

And so I think I think I learned how to be a good crewe person and then eventual producer from working with my dad.

But I don't think I clued into wanting to be a performer.

I just knew art was fun.

And then I think there was a period similarly to you, because I'm also a night owl where I never wanted to go to bed, and so I would get caught watching Dragnet like on Nick at Night or reruns of mister ed like, I've truly been a grandfather for my whole life.

But then I realized if I could get my parents to hang out with me, yeah, yeah, then I could usually stay up a little later.

Really, do you like the show?

Whatever show you guys want to watch?

Yeah, And then I'd start doing like a, oh, well, why don't you let me do the voices?

Oh, like, I'll give I'll give you a performances grandpa yeah and all his friends in Teenac, you know, and like, then then I could stay up a little later.

And I had not thought about it in that way until I was reading your reflections on how you became obsessed with voice acting, and I was like, oh my god, we would have been cool a little bit kid friends.

For sure, we would have stayed up till like two in the morning.

I still want to stay up till I know.

Well, kids, we'll be back in just a minute.

But here's a word from our sponsors.

Okay, so this is my question for you.

Completely.

Yeah, they were taking a left turn, but it's perfect thinking about you and your two kids.

Now that I love someone with two kids, I I am having to become a morning person.

Yeah, because children are mourning people.

They just want to get up.

And I am I am a night person and I mean even like diagnosed circadian rhythm by a sleep doctor.

Oh, you're one of the rare eight percent of people who is a true night owl.

How do you do it as a mom?

You don't have a choice, You just shift.

Don't have a choice.

Yeah, you don't have a choice at all.

And it's like I remember my ex husband, who's awesome, Scott, was saying, you know, he knew I was a night owl, and he's like, let's, you know, drive for a kid.

I'm like, yeah, totally, But what if they're what if what if they're like early birds, you know, like you?

Because he's just like, he'll be up at five.

Oh no, And I am he knew I was such a night owl.

And he's like, I'll take care of morning shift forever.

Don't worry about it.

So you have a kid, and guess what your boobs are on morning shift, whether you like it or not, meaning you're attached to your boobs and therefore morning shift occurs, and then you're just trained.

And the truth is, when you're pregnant, you are the reason.

I feel like the reason why the body keeps you up all hours of the night and in the morning, and everything is because the body is just training you to just you sorry, You're going to have to be doing feedings every two hours.

This is part of the training system that we put in place, and so the pregnant body just kind of starts training you.

And then by the time you're deposited on the other side of this like epic life moment of child birth, you are You're like, I guess I'm a person who's up all night and also in the morning.

Oh, I know, And then you start to paper off a little and right when you get comfy, it's like there's sleep aggression, you know, And so you're just needed.

And the truth is just like you're chemically you're chemically connected to the progeny and the little being that is wanting sustends, and so your brain, you know, your body's just like all right, I'll give you.

I guess I'm doing.

It's just like in the same in a similar way.

You know, it's different because it doesn't have the chemical component.

But I love what we do so much, right, Like I it is so hugely a part of I feel so grateful and privileged to be able to be a writer and a director and create these stories as an actor and oh wow, get to be a part of this creative ecosystem, you know, family.

And so when they say you have to be on set at six a m.

To be inherent makeup, you're not psyched, but you totally do it.

Yep, you wake up.

You gotta get up at five because you're gonna have to get picked up by the van IoT fifteen and then the locations X amount of way.

So you're just doing it.

Yep, there's no it's there's no ques.

You just do it.

And I think the adjustment of anything in life as an adult, you know, it's just that.

But I hear you.

Yeah, it is when your like body wants to be asleep at certain times, you know, you just gotta you just.

Gotta do it.

You just gotta Well that's the thing.

Yeah, it's been really interesting and I've nerded out a little bit on the you know, the sleep prep where I'm like, okay, this is when I got to turn my screens off.

Yeah, yase, I if I'm watching TV, it's not even it's not ten nineteen.

If it hits ten twenty one, it's like a little gremlin who's jolly.

Yeah in me is like it's my time now.

Yeah, yeah, And I just I want to reorganize.

I want to do laundry.

I want to watch television.

I want to watch eight episodes.

Of television, get the whole season.

It's just so crazy.

So I'm kind of like, Okay, i gotta wind down at nine thirty.

I'm gonna put on your blue light glasses.

Two and four oh nah, yeah, about to be three, okay, just tur and four in it.

Oh yeah.

And and my partner's the sweetest human in the world because she's like, you missed the like warm loaf of bread, the sleepy baby stage, like you you came into the this world, our world with two toddlers, and they're just like up all the time and absolutely amped.

And they are my favorite little humans.

Like they're so funny and so charming and wonderful and wild.

And my godson is right in the age between the two of them, so it's just like pack of babies everywhere.

My two best friends have have recent one year olds, and it's just like that's.

A lot, it's a lot.

We're having the most fun.

Yeah.

But yeah, I was like Oh I didn't.

I didn't get the like mostly napping phase.

There's just it's just you sign up for the sleeplessness, you do.

Yeah, and then you realize, I can't believe that I'm actually I'm getting through this like you do anyway.

Yeah.

I also will say in some of the you know, as stressful as things have been in our day job world where no one knows what's happening to our beautiful industry in the in the times where we're not on set hours and things like this are scheduled early or late, I'm like, oh, it's nap time.

I'm gonna nap too.

Well, if that changes my life.

The world is exhausting right now, you know.

So it's gee, what do you mean you.

Mean twenty twenty five something going on?

Yeah, I mean I just feel like the the endurance race that we've even been on since COVID, you know, is really you know, it's if you you know, Carpe Naptom, you know, I just like, if you have the great and beautiful privilege to rest, please do that for your own health and well being.

Yeah.

Like, if I get in a nap a month, I feel like there should be a thing in my little health app that I can.

I want like a button that gives me a gold coin like in Zelda Luxury.

Yeah.

Yeah, because it's like two nap is to say that you're worth shutting your system down and taking that time to be that loaf of bread as it were.

Yeah, well, I will never forget.

Many years ago, my therapist saying to me about a friend's recently born kid.

Would you ever let that baby go without sleep?

Would you ever let that baby go hungry?

Would you ever?

You know?

And it was this sort of series of questions, and she said, why do you, as an adult woman, think you deserve less care?

And I went ooof because we would We would do anything for our kids.

We would do anything for the kids in our village, our friends' kids, like we show up for them in these ways.

And yeah, on the off month that I get a nap, I'm like, look at me self care.

Yeah, I mean, I I feel I think the main thing is you feel guilt.

I think as a parent.

You know, I'm a parent of children with learning differences, and I'm divorced, I'm a single mom.

You know.

I we're fifty to fifty with everything, you know, so it's like there's this sense of I need to be doing something also as an activist, as somebody who gives a shit about the world, and how oppression just is just reeking through every orifice of this, of every systemic system.

I don't space, place, place, countries, continents, world, I mean environment.

I mean so through that, I think, you know, do you I feel personally?

At least I can only speak for myself that I can feel a sense of guilt of how dare you rest?

How dare you rest when so many cannot?

So that's where I come from, And then I go, hey, guess what, you know, it is my It is my responsibility to take care of myself in order to take care of my children, in order to be an activist, in order to be a human who supports the values that I believe in.

You know.

Yeah, so it's like you have to do it.

You have to.

And I think one of the things that's so important about that is to take time for joy, not just because you as a human deserve it, but also because joy is fuel.

How are you supposed to keep fighting oppression?

How are you supposed to advocate for our equal protections under the law if you're just fried all the time.

I do think, Yeah, I think I think it is Ye.

I think I think joy is essential.

I think that I'm trying to show my children.

I mean, that's the other thing through the lens of being a parent and being you know, able to show up for these young minds and say, hey, look here's how I live my life.

I hope that I can't say to you, read more books.

If I don't read books, you know, it's like you must be a mirror and a model and thank God for them for that reason, you know, because I am also saying I will do I will experience joy as well, because part of the human condition, you know, sort of feeds on and needs joy.

It needs sadness, it needs mourning, it needs activity.

You know all these.

Things when you think about all the things you've created, you know, characters and stories, you know from the books to the movies, and then you make this shift into writing a children's book.

To me, it reads like such a love letter to your kid and to other people's kids.

Was it easier do you think to do because you've written so much before, or did it almost feel like it had more weight because it's for her?

Well, it's interesting I felt writing all about brains was very intuitive and easy for me because it really was born from a place of listening.

Nova was my daughter has epilepsy, and I say she has epilepsy even though she is seizure free currently, because she has a genetic mutation.

And so once you kind of have seizures, just say you have epilepsy, just for the sake of honoring your brain systems.

Nova, because she has this genetic mutation, will always carry it right, and how it has shown up for her from a neurological standpoint of how her brain functions, and how she interacts with the world and interacts with academics, and how she enters with social emotional interactions.

You know, it's it's present in a multitude of ways that are you know that you sure you could write down on paper, but to live it.

It feels so unique to her and it's what makes her great and what makes her a poet, you know, and all of those superpowers, those uniqueness that those unique qualities as it were, when I look at her and I experience her as a little person who is coming up, the way she takes ownership of it and and lives in it is what I think really inspired the book because of how she speaks about her neurological differences to her peers, and so it was so easy to kind of like listen and then digest and then yes.

Even as a screenwriter myself and how I sort of take on writing, which is through the lens of different characters, I could use her as that sort of beacon of little narrative.

We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors.

Okay, so this makes me really curious, loving words the way you do and grammar the way you do.

What were the things that Nova started to say to you that made you realize, Oh, that's a new phrase, that's a new way of thinking.

The way you experience your genetic makeup is something I want to write down.

She there was a moment where she had a seizure and she apologized for it, and I think that it caused a massive reframe.

Need to reframe the narrative of epilepsy in our lives and in our family.

This is not something we apologize for.

Right.

Seizures, we explained to her are electrical misfires really in the brain.

That it's simply that you know all of our brains are comprised of this mysterious electrical energy that is hard to map out precisely.

So anyway, with Nova, you know, in explaining these electrical systems, she sort of digested that as, Oh, there's like this sparkling magic that's happening.

So it's like this sparkle, right, this like like this sparkler that occurs because that's electrically, it looks electrical or something.

It has sort of personality of something that is sort of bright and speck of light, you know, and it feels special.

It feels special, and it sounds special.

So then her explaining it to Peers is what I think got me really excited to think about, Oh, how could I explain this?

How could I show this experience like Nova's experience, like her experiential sort of flavors of how she feels what an epileptic epileptic convulsion feels like.

That's interesting too, you know.

She would start to explain to me yo with this, because I'd ask, I'm like, what does it feel like?

I'm just curious.

I've never had one.

Yeah, So here you are a six year old, You're experiencing something I have never experienced.

And she's like okay, well, you know, and she would explain that there was kind of a tingling in her mouth, so sparkling in the mouth kind of, and then that things go black and that she doesn't then she says she's out, and then she comes back and all of her body is tired.

So it was like, oh, okay, this is such such great information.

Wow, And then we started talking about it in this way of like this, you don't have to apologize for this.

This means you're just operating on a level of you are like a shaman, like you are when you have these sparkles, you gotta let me know because that means you're sparkling more magic than I am right now, and maybe everyone in the room or maybe anyone on the block.

So let me know, girl, because when you're sparkling, like because I had to write it down anyway in a log.

Yeah, So when she would feel them come on, because some seizures, just so you know, are like not all the big fancy grand mal ones where you fall down and it's a whole thing.

There's also myoclonic seizures, which were the little mini ones that she would get, which were more stuttered in the mouth, so you like that.

Yes, So when you're trying to experience say something and it it it trips up, it looks like an electrical uh yeah, fl miss flip.

Yeah.

So she would have those And then that was really interesting because I was like, oh, thank you so much for letting me know that you had a mini you know, she'd be like, I'm just like really smart today.

I'm like, oh, oh, do you know?

So it became that instead of sorry.

But what an amazing thing that you, as a parent were not only able to reframe it to get her out of the feeling of needing to apologize for herself, you know, because we all know the crazy research about how much women say sorry all the time.

So to help stop that impulse, but also to take the fear away for her, because you are you turning this into something sparkly, letting her know she's doing something and you want to know about it, and to take that what I would imagine at first caused a lot of terror and anxiety for your child, and to help her feel powerful in her body instead like makes me want to sob.

It's what the book is about.

So it's like it me too.

I mean the second I saw her shift her perception of seizures and report one to me while she was in the other room, come running in and say, I'm smart today, you know, like I'm fired on all cylinders.

You know.

It's like, oh you have a mini all right girl, like a shoot.

You know.

Was such a great moment.

And so I think that the book with that same respect of our neurological differences that we all imbue in some shade.

And my own feeling is like I said to Nova.

I say to Nova all the time, like everybody's walking around here, and everybody's got a thing, you know what I mean.

You don't see it, but they've got it some shade of something.

Of course, I'm dyslexic, like not running around going on.

As an adult, I got diagnosed with ADHD.

Or He's like, wow, okay, so does a lot of things really make more sense for me?

I wish I'd knowne this as a kid.

Sure, maybe I didn't have to white knuckle through the like overachieving tendency of my neurospiciness mixed with like growing up with an immigrant dad.

Okay, but that that was so special even for me as an adult reading the book as nova opens up for our listeners at home to her class.

In this beautiful children's book, so many other kids in the class begin to share their thing and to read about her classmate sharing about her ADHD.

I was like, oh my god, I needed this book.

It made me feel so emo even in my adult body.

And what it really, I think beautifully reminds readers of, is this thing you're saying that you remind your kid in the world that everyone's got their own particular brain.

And I find it really refreshing in a time to relate to our earlier conversation, which might sound sad, but I think is actually really beautiful.

In a time when our exceptional leaps in our medical and psychological practices mean that more and more people learn what their thing is are advancements.

Our ability to see people is actually being attacked, and it's being scapegoaded so that people who want to make a bunch of money selling you non approved vitamins can convince you not to get the vaccine that you need.

It drives me crazy, you know, because people want to talk about that, but they don't want to talk about the fact they you know, they like to say, oh, pharmacy pharma is a billion dollar a year industry, and I'm like, yeah, the supplement industry is over four billion dollars a year.

So who do you think is grifting?

The doctors or the people who don't have to adhere to medical standards.

So it's like, for me, it hit home.

You know, you're not talking about politics in the book, You're you're in a kid's classroom.

Yeah, who we talk about meds.

We talk about medication exactly.

And what I loved is that without having to get overtly political, what you're doing as a mom is celebrating your own kid and everyone else's kids for whatever they are and how lucky they are to know what they are.

Whether they have anxiety, or one kid is on the autism spectrum, or your kid has epilepsy or another kid has ADHD.

They are being celebrated for the ways they see their world, their friends, their classroom, their teacher, and I just like it really makes me want to cry.

Well, no, it's beautiful, Thank you.

I appreciate that.

I feel like we are in a time where I think what keeps me up at night is not understanding how I mean the core of our humanity and what makes us.

Human is caring for other humans and being in community with other bodies, regardless of their brains, their shapes, their colors.

It's like we're you know, I religions, and I feel like anything short of ultimately you know I, anything short of ultimate radical kindness and love is just like violent.

Yeah, you know.

It's like I really look around and I'm just like, you know, yes, my book has this generosity of spirit as anything that I'm going to write in my life will always have that because I think of, you know, if I can impart anything, I mean, in the lives of young minds, but also in parents as well.

I just feel exhausted with the idea that somehow it's radical to be inclusive.

Yeah.

What strikes me constantly is this is the whole point, the point of evolving as humans, of becoming a more globally connected society, of having our most successful social media app be for picture sharing so you can see where and how other people live.

The whole point is to be nicer to each other.

And people can sell this really old world tribalism through fear, and I'm like, wouldn't it be so much nicer for us all to not be afraid and just I don't know, be able to go to the doctor and breathe clean air.

Like doesn't that just sound better?

Yeah?

I mean I was just talking about this with the friend of mine who's an activist, and it's like, I, you know, the systems, you know, It's like, uh, we want to burn the systems down.

I'm like, the systems are like a knot.

It's like your hair.

It's like knotted hair.

They're tiny, tiny not It's not like you can sit down in an afternoon and kind of like undo them, right, And there's thousands and millions of them, these systems, you know.

Yes, so we have to be within the systems radically conscientious and active and and kind and and unrelent you know, relentless with our radical compassion.

Yeah, I think about it.

You know.

The difference, I would say from becoming an activist in my twenties and the version of that for me today is to use your not analogy.

It's not just that it's knotted like your hair.

It's your hair.

If you burn it down, you burn with it.

And so the most radical kind of care is to sit with people and help them untake And I actually think that when you're younger and less patient.

The idea of burning a whole system down sounds cool, but when you as you get older and you actually learn to hold more things to be true at the same time.

The nuanced For sure, the nuance matters.

And actually the way to be radical is to stay in the fight for your whole life.

Yes, I think about activism.

Using voice right, like coming back to voice.

Yes, but I think about activism as the longest marriage I'll ever be in.

Right, you know, I am dedicated to this place and how we leave it for our kids first and foremost.

And if you treat your activism like your greatest love story, it's also going to be ugly sometimes it's going to be it's going to require patience and.

Like dadding sometimes, Yeah.

That's that's what I want, And I you know, someone Some might say it's ironic for two divorced women to be sitting here having this conversation, but I actually think it's part of how I how I came to that analogy because I went, oh, I get it.

This, this is the thing that I will actually be the most patient with.

I'm much more willing to wake up one day and say, oh, I'm in the wrong thing and move along for myself, but for us, I'm like, oh no, I am married to this country.

You can't get rid of me.

I mean, you are stuck with me forever.

I'm married to I think.

You know, it's interesting when you talk about that, the activism.

Well you say I'm married to this country, right, and I'm like, I think this planet.

Maybe, yeah, maybe I'm married.

I'm married to the to the planet and to the you know, to humanity right where it's like, I can't first of all, I can't unsee what we've seen, right possible, And I am in solidarity with you.

I feel the same way.

I do think that, you know, I'm kind of thinking, like, why why is it so ironic the two divorced women talking about that.

I actually think it makes all the sense in the world, you know.

I'm so grateful to be in this space now at my age.

I'm in my forties, and I know who I am, and I understand that that little activist was inside me my whole life, you know, and showing up in different ways and feeling like I wasn't invited to the party of active, I wasn't even allowed to be participatory, and it didn't feel like I I mean, my mom was definitely showing me some forms of active activism.

But I think that how great that we get to write our own, our own path and then use our voices to be betrothed to this, you know, to the cause of all bodies, you know.

And now for our sponsors.

So much of your work, inquity, you have focused in our industry for women and with women in Film and everything that you do.

How did you find that kind of home for yourself.

It's interesting.

I've served on the board for nine years and then I had to cycle out and Women in Film and I had such a tremendous experience there, I think realizing that obviously culture moves with culture, right, so in order to in order to really move things from you know, in a way that people alter how people think or open the minds of how people think, we have to utilize storytelling.

And so it felt like Women in Film was and is still an organization really worth supporting because it's helping create culture.

And so there are these and also highlighting where they are massive inequities within our industry, which is the industry that I love and care about.

I think as I've expanded and had to cycle off of the board.

I still support women in film tremendously, and now I am I'm working with Women for Women International, who I love, and I stay within organizations that I think are empowering and building a positive system of support for women in their communities where they are marginalized, but also just without infrastructure.

So I think that's where my voice and life force energy lie.

And also I'm with you and looking around and seeing the gross discrimination of our within our country and the pain and oppression that has been here for since this country was founded.

That is just a loud and front and center.

Is it kind of crazy to you that we've essentially had one generation of virtual I'm not going to say actual equity for men and women, but like closer than ever before.

You know, like my mom couldn't get a credit card without a man's permission until nineteen seventy four, right, so we're really the first generation.

You know, Granted, we know women get funded less, you know, our movies get made, love like anywhere.

Whatever.

We know, we know all the stats, but I'm like, god, we just started to get like a little bit of freedom.

We had one generation of us who could get a credit card and file for a no fault divorce, and now y'all want to roll it back.

Are you that scared of us?

I mean, I mean even you know, there is such flagrant misogyny and white supremacy in this country that is baked into the bedrock of so many of our systems that it is like, I think, if anything, it's most recent that the awakening of us all realizing, certainly as white bodies, to realize that this has been going on from day one.

It's like when you have the privilege of not you know, people who say, oh, you know, I'm not really political, and I'm like, well, that's because the system is working for you.

Yeah, Okay, you don't have to be.

That's a privilege to not be political.

So I think understanding that and being thoughtful and not being overly self righteous, you know, but the idea that you're just like, I'm aware and I'm wanting to be a part of educating myself and being supportive of of real and true equity.

Yeah, and realizing that the scarcity mentality, yes, lie, And when you feel like, oh god, if we achieve this, will I lose?

That's what they want you to feel Yeah, I mean, and it's like, no, if we win, we all win.

Yeah, if if if some are not free, then we're not free.

So yeah, because then it's just an illusion.

Yeah, it's it's it's like, but you have to like really, I mean certainly I think in our generation too, I think that, like you said, there's this oh we got it, we can we can vote, we can get.

Look, we won all these rights and now they're set.

It's like they're not set.

We got to hold on to them.

You gotta hold onto them.

And then also be aware that so many other marginalized groups are in a constant state and have never still still not thriving.

So it's like, god, damn it.

You know, it's like we have so much work to do.

But then as at least we have megaphones, you know, And you know, I really try to even in non megaphone ways, I try to like live my values as I walk down the street and sit in the subway and who who you know, like how I interact, how I pick up the trash from the you know, this old woman across the street, you know, like trying to show and also with my children, I'm like, yeah, this is who we are, okay, it's like this is where you're from, Okay, totally.

So yeah, it's little things.

It's like it's funny that you say, you know, you pick up the trash or you do this thing, you set an example when no one's watching.

Also because it's who you are, you live your values.

And the other day, I was on a couple of planes last week and I had a layover in Denver Flags.

Yeah, you know, sick layover was great, and I went to the restroom in the airport as one does, and you know, it's like midday.

The whole countertop in between every sink is wet, and I had like a three hour layover, and I got extra paper towels and just started like drying up the countertop and I saw this woman at the other end of the counter like kind of look at me, and I saw her pause.

I was doing the thing where I was really watching out of my peripheral, which I think I've gotten good at, because it's like on set, I need to know when the person I'm not supposed to see is coming, so I turned at the correct time for camera, you know, to not get the shot.

And so it's so stupid, but I'm like, ooh, I have a really wide per here, and I like see her and she takes a beat and then she gets a couple of paper towels and starts drying, and we literally met in the middle of the counter and looked at each other and just nodded and like went about our day.

It was, oh, girlhood is my It's like just my joy the countertops.

We were like, you know, we did it.

We did a nice thing, and nobody saw us, but I saw you and you saw me, and this is cool.

And it's like she's a huge one tree hill fanto.

By the way, if she was, she played it so cool.

I have no idea, but like, it's just little things are capable of having such a ripple effect and you can pause and be generous in your space at any time.

It's it's so true, and I feel like, look, not every day.

Some days you're going to be like I'm pissy today.

Some days you're the nightmare person at the airport, like we try.

But but for the majority of the time, yeah, I mean, you know, people I say to my kids too, I'm like ninety nine point nine percent of the people as you walk down the street are good.

Yeah they are.

I mean, I'm just telling you there's a you know, zero point one percent okay that are like born bad.

I guess I don't know whatever that means, and it means we'd be like, you know, they want to harm or something.

But otherwise, I mean, people are pretty good.

They're gonna look different than you.

They might have differences, like you got differences, and it's okay.

I'm just telling you you don't have to like fear the world.

Yeah, okay, because this is the problem we're growing up because I have to.

I have to manage myself as well.

Where it's like, you know, how do I not fear the world?

The world?

You know, we have so much anxiety.

We're reading in the news and you're just like, there's a thousand ways to die today, Yeah for everyone.

Yeah, and it's just like Jesus Christ and.

You gotta combat it.

But do you take a nap?

Then once a month you get you.

Take a month, you take well maybe once a week if you can't month.

I think it's really cool though, that you It sounds to me like you are constantly able to claim the good, not just for yourself, but because you're also modeling it for your kids.

Yeah, I think it's kids.

But then it's also like, oh, like you said, you guys were wiping down those counters, and there's just something about that woman's gonna then walk on to hurt.

You felt better, right that you had a comrade in that, and you I believe in society and yeah, I'm like, see people are good.

Yeah, so you're having that feeling, she's having that feeling.

Yeah, and then she's gonna you know, that's gonna ripple, like you said to the person she's sitting next to, you know, in Denver or whatever.

So the point is, I'm with you.

I think that when you feel helpless, it's like, yes, you're gonna do all the thing.

You're going to go to the protest.

You're gonna go you know, you're gonna call your representative.

You're going to you know, write a check if you can.

You're gonna buy a T shirt and support of X, Y or Z, and then you're gonna pick up that piece of trash.

You're gonna wipe down a counter, You're gonna smile, you're gonna have a conver Like I had a conversation with a guy who came onto the subway and just was immediately like wanted to start talking about the subway cars and the models of the subway cars.

He clear he's a delivery guy, but he boy, he had all the answers.

Sounds like the little boy in your book.

Yes, totally, Yeah, there was totally.

And I was thinking, you know, I'm always under the impression that like, since I have some neurodiversity, you have some everybody in this room has some nerd adversity.

They're looking at us rabbits.

But the point is like the whole you know, this man walks in clearly like he's got some stuff going on, and I'm like, let's get into it.

It's like I was like, you're kidding me.

This was born Okay, so these were made in Japan.

What parts were we to j We just went into it, put down my book and we just like had a great conversation, and you know, the New Yorker and me is like, this is what I fall in love with New York every time I'm here for that reason, because too you can you can you can like participate with the city, or you can sit back.

It's there for the taking.

Well, you can engage or watch totally.

And I like that you can do whatever you would ever given day.

And I like that you got the encyclopedic coverage.

The subway cars, I.

Really didn't realize.

I was like, oh yeah, the ones with the orange and the yellow seats.

That's different making model right, And it's like, oh yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah, I had to really get Those are my favorite the like seventies technicolor or something like cars are my favorite ones.

Those are usually yeah, those go deep.

I love it.

Okay, we have to take a subway ride before you go home.

Indeed, and I'm going to do it tonight awest for this same.

So tech tell the people.

I know we're coming up on time, because my poor producer is like, ladies, you're not at lunch.

Stop talking, but tell the people where to find the book, where to find the audio book, even though I know it's been a minute since it came out, but it's my favorite, and about the new show, and then I promise I'll let you go on the subway.

So first, All About Brains is the children's book that you can purchase on pretty much any bookseller right now, also at Simon and Schuster Kids.

But then, yeah, I mean you could go into the Barnes and Nobles as it were.

You could go on a mega site which I will not even mention, go to bookshop.

Yeah, you can go to Libro or whatever.

But yeah, you can go to a multitude of local small bookshops and.

The Strand if you're in Manhattan one of the best.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's actually it's kind of it's everywhere and that, and I highly recommend it.

And the age range because a lot of people ask me that it's anywhere from like four years old to twelve basically, but obviously you also enjoyed it.

Yeah you're a full grown woman.

Yeah, it made me cry, so that's cool.

The age range goes well past forty two.

Everyone past forty two.

So, and then Inside Voice with How We Sound is an audiobook that I highly recommend it with Pushkin.

It's still available with Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin, but also on I believe, on Audible and anywhere you can get your sort of audiobooks.

So that's a fun listen, lots of really exciting interviews and whatnot with some of the most iconic voices.

And then the show that I'm doing is called The Chair Company with Tim Robinson, great comedian that I adore, and I'm so jazzed to be a part of this series.

It comes out on HBO in the fall.

Can't wait.

Yeah, I'm so excited.

So we're caught up on all of the work.

And for my last question for you, it can be a work thing, but it might also be a personal thing.

You've got a lot kind of cooking at the moment.

When you look at the sort of landscape of life right now, what feels like you're work in progress?

My work in progress will be forever being a parent, I think being an activist.

Those two are in me, whether I like it or not, on a cellular level, on a daily from the second I wake up in the morning, as I go to sleep, and I you know, these are the those are the two tenants of my work in progress as a person.

I would say as a woman, but I think just as a person, and so I know they're both a privilege to you know, the privilege as you spoke of, to evolve, but really to evolve within these tenets of activism and mothering and being what it is to be a present.

And I'm not going to say good mother, because I think that's unfair.

I think just to be a present mother with love, you know, mm hmm.

And I'll lets you know if that changes at all.

I think it's really beautiful.

Thank you God.

I got a stretch