I'm George Severis and I'm Julia Clair, and this is United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy Dynasty.

Every week we go into one aspect of the Kennedy story, and today, after two pretty serious episodes, we thought it might be good to give everyone a break with something light, which is why we are talking about the nineteen ninety seven cult classic dark comedy The House of Yes.

The film is starring a who's who of late nineties young stars, including Parker Posey, Freddy Prince, Junior, Tory Spelling, and even a bizarre cameo from Rachel Lee Cook.

Shout out to Rachel Lee Cook, we love you on this podcast, We love You.

It is directed by Mark Waters, who, if you don't recognize the name, he went on to direct such true classics of our youth as Mean Girls and Freaky Friday, but this was his directorial debut.

So this was a classic late nineties sun dance movie.

It is a pitch black comedy about two twins with a dark secret.

Have you ever seen the film?

You probably won't be surprised to learn that it was a box office bomb and got mixed reviews, but Parker Posey won a Special Recognition for Acting Award at Sundance.

Unfortunately, Tory Spelling did receive a Razzie nomination for her performance.

And listen, I obviously do write to the Risies every year trying to contest their decision, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

I will say she got that Rosie nomination despite the fact that her father reportedly financed the whole film.

So nepotism can only get you so far, which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about the Kennedy shout out to Jack Shlasberg's congressional run.

Yes, So, a review in Entertainment Weekly that we found says, the House of Yes is knowingly overripe, a kitch melodrama that dares to make incest sexy.

And I just want to say it is about.

It's about damn time.

It's about time an American film director to make incest sexy.

So that's the House of Yes.

And before we get into it, you might be wondering hearing us gab about this Parker Posey film.

We're talking Tory spellings, Rozzie, We're talking incest, We're talking twins.

You might be wondering what does any of this have to do with the Kennedys.

Well, we'll tell you.

The film opens and closes with real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at the White House, and it's interspliced with a young Rachel Lee Cook spinning around in the very famous pink pillbox hat Chanelle suit, and you're like, where is this going?

Right, So archival footage of Jackiet I have to say at this point, having done this podcast for so many months, I've seen that footage so many times, and each time I'm again blown away by the sheer physics of her hair.

Yes, it really looks like a plastic paper mache hat.

I would say that was placed on top overhead, and that's.

Why the ozone layer became so big.

That's right, every woman in America.

Their hair didn't move.

Yeah.

No, people say the Kennedys are so influential.

They're also the cause of climate change, that's right, which RFK then tried to stop, but he got distracted by vaccine.

And so there are pluses and minuses.

There are highs and lows of this family.

It's a who's who of major world problems, that's right, exactly incest climate change.

Well, climate change is in fact made literal in the film because it takes place during this big storm, a hurricane.

So the movie opens with archival footage of Jackie giving the famous White House tour and a young Rachel Lee Cook who plays in the film, a young Parker Posey.

And the character's name is Jackie Oh.

And that is what everyone calls her, and we learn pretty early on that it's because she went to a party.

What kind of party did she go to?

And IDEs of March party, Yes, thank you, I mean I think it's just our party on March fourteen.

Got it, okay?

And so she went to an IDEs of March party dressed as Jackie O specifically post assassination aka she had like blood and brains on her, which I just want to quickly shout out, you know my dear friend who I've never met, Julia Fox, who had that exact same costume for this year as Halloween.

Right, and Julia, your email is out from the pod.

We want you to come on.

I would absolutely you know, Julia Fox has actually been mentioned before on this podcast about Greg Gardens, the documentary and Julia Fox actually introduced the fiftieth anniversary screening of Greg Gardens and talked about how influential it was to her incredible comedic sensibility.

So I think she is just like a big fan of the Kennedys more Broccoli, so she's always welcome on the pod.

But yeah, So basically, Jackie O went to this IDEs of March party as a teen, just as actual Jackie O in this pink chanel suit.

And she clearly has some attachment to the JACKIEO iconography and the jfk assassination iconography that will be export further in the film, right.

And it's I clear very early in the film that Jackie O the character is deeply mentally ill and is on various pills and lives in this grand mansion in Virginia with her cold and distant mother and her weird younger brother, played expertly by Freddy Prince Junior.

That's straight and one of his first roles.

One of the things that the Wikipedia says, you know, not to out myself as having done Wikipedia research, is that Freddy Prince Junior shot in quick succession this film and I know what you did last summer.

Wow.

And then I know what you did last summer was of course his big breakout, so then his rising fame.

You know, I was about to say help this movie, but in fact it didn't because this movie ended up bombing in the box office.

But yeah, you know, if you've seen this movie, you gotta wonder why why would this movie play?

But I know why did a dark comedy about incest and twin sest starring a bunch of up and coming Hollywood stars bomb at the box despite everyone's best efforts.

I have to say this is a great Perker Posy performance, which we will get in incredible So, yes, mental illness in this film is treated in the way only a nineteen ninety seven comedy it can treat it.

I would call it a running gag.

Yes, yes, yes, the famous running gag of this Woman's on pills.

It was a real classic in the late nineties.

And this one's just a little extra crazy.

Yes.

The undercurrent of the movie, of course, is that all women are mentally ill.

Jackie O, play by Perker Posey, her brother played by Freddy Prince Junior, and their mother are waiting for Jackie O's twin brother.

There's three kids in the family to come visit for Thanksgiving.

Yes, And if you've heard our descriptions so far, I know what you're thinking.

A classic Thanksgiving.

Film is this the family Stone?

Is this?

Pieces of April, plainstrants and automobiles come.

This is a fun one to watch with the whole family, maybe your parents.

You have your Thanksgiving leftovers, you have your stuffing in turkey sandwich or saying God, I'm in the mood for something cozy.

And it takes place during a storm.

There's candle, It's exactly is cozy.

No, it is cozy.

So then what happens Julia?

The brother arrives.

The brother arrives and he has a quote unquote friend in tow and it turns out to be his fiance, played by Tory Spelling, the.

One and only Tory Spelling.

I said, hello, queen, it is so good to see you.

Missed you girl.

So okay, Tory Spelling is playing this like there's a real kind of Madonna horror thing happening with Tory Spelling on the one side, and you know Nympho maniac twin cest enthusiast Parker Posey on the other side.

So that's right, Tory, Tory Spelling is playing this like innocent blonde, you know, grew up working class and now works at a donut shop and just wants to get.

Married and lead a middle Pennsylvania.

She's from Pennsylvania, which Pennsylvania in this movie is used as a slur.

You'll say it.

It's literally like like you're from Pennsylvania.

Oh sorry, sweetie?

Are you okay?

Oh?

Yeah?

Yeah?

What's the line that's like, Pennsylvania is a place that's just in your way when you're trying to get somewhere else.

Yeah.

Well, and then Barker Posey is like, I've never met anyone who's been from Pennsylvania.

So okay.

I think Tory Spelling is doing a passable job here, Julia, something tells you like this movie less than I did.

What did you think of Tory Spelling's performance?

I mean, this whole movie is front to back insane kook City, USA.

There were parts of it that were really fun.

There was some really fun lines.

All the most fun lines are delivered by Parker Posy, who is It's impossible for her to give a bad performance.

She's so funny.

This is a role she was born to play.

It sort of invented Parker Posy.

She's been another stuff before, and this was probably like four or five years into her career as a buzzy young actress.

But there's something about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posy performance, like the combination of complete pitch black delivery, the campiness, the fact that she doesn't care what anyone else is doing.

She is there to deliver the line yes, and she's like basically in a different movie than everyone else.

Yes, in a better movie.

Yes.

Yeah, She's amazing.

I love.

There were again a number of lines that really made me laugh that she delivered, like, oh, if we're all going to start telling the truth, I'm going to bed.

I mean yes.

It's one of the most incredible lines in the movie, and that is when she is accused of being spoiled, Like she she says something and then Tory Spelling is like, well, I just think you're spoiled, and you think this is going to be some big fight, Inches goes, if people are gonna start telling the truth, I'm gonna go to bed.

I mean yeah.

When Freddy Prince Junior is accusingly probing her about having an incestuous relationship with her twin brother.

She goes, don't be so bourgeois.

This is based on a play, we should say, and it's sort of like.

Doubt, which I can't believe.

It almost did make more sense to me somehow, because I'm like, oh, yes, I could see like off off Broadway audiences being like, well that was a gas yeah, like an incest movie about the Kennedys, And there is something very intentionally claustrophobic about it.

I mean, they're in this house the whole time.

It's very quippy and dialogue heavy.

I mean there's one sequence where it goes, are you being wise?

And then Jackie O goes, one day I woke up wise, and he goes, one day I woke up stupid, and she goes, what did you do?

He goes, I went back to bed.

She goes, that was wise.

Like it's so it's so like quippy and almost sitcom meets off Broadway play.

Yeah, meets classic Hollywood comedy.

We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break, and we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

So, okay, the brother arrives with the girlfriend.

It is immediately announced that they are engaged, and you can tell that from the moment that is revealed Jackie O is.

Pissed because she lets out a scream.

Yes, another like incredible Parker Posimoe or you know, all the script said was like haha, and she's like got it.

I'm gonna like scream at the top of my lungs, turn it into laughter and then like ad lib the next.

Line and it's gonna last for three minutes.

Yes.

Over the course of this night, the tensions are rising.

It slowly revealed that the twins have this prior romantic relationship.

A very long lasting romantic sexual relationship.

Trumendic sexual relationship.

Part of the reason we find out that Parker Posey was institutionalized and why she's on all these crazy meds.

She was institutionalized.

Meanwhile, he's hoofs to New York.

He's totally fine.

He's dating a donut chuck girl.

Yeah, it smells like powdered sugar.

Right, Yeah, but you can't marry a girl who smells like powdered sugar.

Another amazing line.

And then, by the way, this relationship started from the womb because as the most oh my God informs us, they were born with Jackie O holding Marty's penis, said it had never been received before.

They're in a bunch of medical textbooks.

So, Julia, would you like to explain to our listeners what the twins relationship to the Kennedy assassination is.

No, I would not.

So basically, this movie is set in the eighties, so it's supposed to be like twenty or so years after the assassination.

Supposed to be exactly twenty years from the assassination.

Twenty years from the assassination.

And she obviously is obsessed with Jackie.

Oh, she's like doing this almost like Jackie o drag with the preppy dress and the pearls, the outfit, the hair, the hair, even though she talks sometimes becomes sort of like mid Atlantic in this kind of funny way.

And basically, what we come to realize is that as a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out the Kennedy assassination.

And so she would have a gun loaded with blanks, pretend to shoot him, and then as Jackie would like, take him into her arms and kind of, you know, hide his head in her bosom as the same way Jackie did in her memory when the assassination happened.

And then the fireworks would start.

That's right, you know, I didn't want to give it all away, but yes, it was, as I said afore before a player.

So obviously a bunch of other stuff happens, you know.

The Tory Spelling slowly finds out what she's gotten herself into.

She's obviously ver freaked out about it, because she is normal, not the stigmatized twin sest.

The mom is, in her own weird way, both obviously disapproving of the twin seest but also encouraging it because she thinks that his sister is the only woman that is good enough for him, that is good enough for him.

Then, through a series of machinations, Freddy Prince Junior, who plays the kind of awkward young brother, ends up seducing Tory Spelling, and she and her kind of chaotic confusion.

In the midst of finding out this dark secret about her fiance sleeps with his brother.

Then that is used to blackmail her and turn Marty against her, and pretty much it.

Looks like maybe because Marty and JACKIEO have rekindled their romance.

That's right, Marty is their brother.

He played by Josh Hamilton.

Yeah, they've rekindled their romance, so JACKIEO thinks he'll stay this time, he won't leave, And then there's a big climactic scene.

And basically the final dilemma that Marty, who is the brother that is choosing between his girlfriend and his sister, the final dilemma that he has is is he going to go back to New York with Tory Spelling and continue their wonderful life of living in the West village and reading the newspaper every day and taking baths together, or is he going to stay home and in the words of Tory Spelling, have children with webbed feet that they can bury in the backyard.

Another really wonderful image from this field.

And so he sort of is about to leave with Tory Spelling, and then Jackie Oh says, can we do it one last time?

Meaning do the reenactment of the assassination one last time?

And he says yes, And then we are led to believe that the gun is in fact loaded this time, aka she kills him.

And then in the final scenes we see Tory Spelling running out of the house.

I can't remember she's covered in blood or no, she's not.

She's leaving the house, like freaked out because her fiance was just murdered in front of her by his sister slash X.

And then the final scenes we go back to the sort of flashbacks where Rachel Lee Cook is playing young Jackie and it just shows their first encounters.

So, folks, that's the plot of the House of Yes.

And as we said, it's a movie for the whole family.

You know, obviously it's not for the faint of heart.

But if you've gotten this far listening to a podcast about the Kennedys, you know, I hate to say, we've discussed much worse things than you know, safely contained twin sest in a Virginia suburb.

It is really no worse than what the Kennedys themselves have done.

I mean, that's why I was like, okay, we need a light episode after it two.

I mean, we've talked about a brutal murder.

We've talked about botched military operation that killed hundreds of people.

We've talked about just horrible trials and miscarriagters of justice.

We've talked about RFK Junior making sure all of us get measles and bumps.

But first of all, I would love to know your thoughts about this movie.

Did you have any history with it?

Did you know anything about it going in?

I didn't know anything about it.

I realized that I had seen the movie poster before.

I had definitely seen it.

I don't know if it was I'm sure that it was in the Parker Posi collection on Criterion or something like that.

And I had definitely seen the movie poster, but I had no conception of what it was.

I watched the trailer and I said, well, this movie looks insane, and I'm glad I watched the trailer because I think I would have been in for a rude awakening if I had really gone in totally cold.

But there were definitely some really funny, stupid parts.

But it felt long.

It's like an hour and twenty minutes, and it felt long.

Yeah, just waiting for the finale to happen in the entire time, and it's funny.

I actually I had watched it four months ago, and when I suggested doing it for this episode, I had the dilemma of like, do I rewatch or do I just read the Wikipedia and remember what I watched four months ago.

I'm glad I rewatched it because I had honestly forgotten a lot of the different plot points, but there was a part of me that was like, is this the movie I want to watch twice in four months?

That said, I have to say, I weirdly enjoyed it more the second time.

I think, because when you know what it is, it's almost like taking the first sip of wine and it's like bursting in your mouth, and then with the second step you get all the nuances.

I feel like with my first watch, I was like, Wow, okay, so this is really just about incest.

And then with the second watch, knowing that going in, I was able to appreciate the performances more and appreciate the writing more.

And I totally see what you're saying about it being like a long hour and twenty minutes, but there's something about the quippiness of it and it was contained.

It also really just made me nostalgic for a different era of a mar and indie film, Like just the fact that this movie was at sun Dance.

It had the stunt casting with Tory Spelling.

It was kind of banking on these like semi unknown stars.

Then it was a hit with like the kooky people that would go to Sundance in nineteen ninety seven, so then it got picked up by the way produced by Miramax.

So thank you, Harvey Wyan.

Thank you hard as always amazing contribution.

I know we say it every episode, but thank you, thank you Harvey.

Yes, exactly.

Have you ever seen The Day Trippers.

I was just going to say, you know, Parker Posey had this run in the nineties of like Party Girl, the Day Trippers, all these great I mean, even Dazed and Confused was not like a big budget film at all, and they just aren't making movies like that anymore.

Yeah, there's just something about this sort of like low budget.

It's almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something in like a black box theater or something.

And so it really did make me nostalgic for that era and the big swings of it.

I was kind of gloving the second time around.

I do want to talk about the post a little bit because literally the poster for me was such a clear memory seeing it a blockbust check and being like, I think it might have been the first time I ever saw a depiction of Jackie Kennedy in that dress, Like, I think that was my first reference, that's fine, and the same way that like, I bet you.

For some people that was like March Simpson in the suit, and they were like who you know, Like, because I hadn't seen you know.

Again, not to age myself, but nineteen eighty seven, I was very young.

I had not seen archival footage of and so I think I was like, so, what is this pink suit?

Yeah?

And then you know, you sort of start seeing it around to pop culture, and obviously you connect the dots, but there was something about it that was so appealing to me, the cover of her holding the gun behind her back and also smiling to Camra.

It's the same way I felt the first time I like became aware of John Waters.

I was like, oh, this is a sensibility I'm interested in, Like whatever is happening here.

There is this twisted sense of humor and it's happening with a wink, and it's kind of like written by and for like smart gay people and like god, like I want to be part of of that club like that.

And I really remember having thought like I'm not old enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can't wait until I am.

Oh that's so sweet and then.

It's a very childlike memory.

No it is.

It's such a visceral kind of memory.

But yeah, I was gonna say too.

I think it's a very John Waters esque movie.

It feels almost like have you ever seen Ceial Mom?

No, Cerial Mom was like his first foray and to try to be a little more mainstream, and it's Kathleen Turner plays a mom who starts murdering people.

So she's like a serial killer mom.

And it's this halfway point between true like trash B movie and like mainstream Hollywood movie.

So you know, you get Kathleen Turner.

She's obviously a big, bankable star.

It is, you know, a broad comedy, but she's also murdering people and that's kind of what this is like.

It's no coincidence that it became over the year as a cult classic because it's sort of like it's built to be that.

It's not going to actually be the movie that like makes Freddy Prince Junior famous, Right.

I could see this being really fun to put on at or something exactly.

And just for some context, the siko's on Letterbox love this movie.

They love it.

I can see why.

Honestly, it is fun and I think that part of the reason why my viewing experience was maybe like less fun than I wanted it to be, it is just because I was watching it by myself, and part of that is you just want somebody to be able to turn to and be like, what, yeah, are.

Watching those folks.

We're going to take a short break, stay with us.

And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.

So we are ostensibly supposed to be talking about the Kennedy's.

I want to get into what the Kennedy reference could possibly mean, because this is another thing I found myself thinking way more in my second viewing.

This is an interesting common and terry about the traumatic nature of big media events.

Yeah, I'm thinking in terms of like for our generation, the equivalent would have been obviously watching nine to eleven footage on TV.

Which we don't remember because we're so young, But.

It is, you know, the effect that a huge media event that happens when you are like between the ages of you know, six and fifteen, what that does to you psychologically.

I mean that they mention it in the film, they say everyone remembers where they were, and that's what my parents say about it as well.

Yeah, and it's like the fact that for them it's it also becomes perverse and sexual.

Is this other sort of fascinating thing Like it reminded me of David Kronerberg's Crash, where people are like their kink as car crashes.

I see the intelligent commentary hidden under you know, a Tory Spelling movie, where I'm like, wow, this is kind of like a very provocative thing to be saying that, like these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid fervor actually hide something darker in us.

That's like a desire for something so perverted and forbidden or something.

It's I mean, it is like the perverted human instinct to like look back at a car crash, the thing like, if you pass a car crash, you're going to look back at it.

I actually think there's really something to that analysis, because how many times do we watch, I mean, even those of us who were not born, how many times have we all watched throughout the years the footage from Dallas.

Yeah, No, it's true.

We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and we do keep returning to the source material in a way that I don't know.

No, I think there was some other movie that is alluding to the Zubruder tape the entire time, and then at some point actually shows it.

And it's honestly the same kind of sense.

You get what there's like an especially pornographic seat in a movie and you're like, oh my god, I'm not supposed to be looking at this.

Yeah, obviously the reaction is different, but the valence is similar, of this weird excitement at seeing something that is supposed to be forbidden.

Well, the most recent example of that was the Charlie Kirk footage, which it was getting passed around like crazy, and when I saw the footage, I audibly gasped.

I don't know how you wouldn't.

I remember the first round of people being like, oh god, I saw it, Oh God, I saw it.

And I was like, okay, well I'm going to avoid it.

I'm not going to seek it out.

And of course, within thirty seconds, sure when I was on Twitter or something, wasn't getting censored.

And this is the case with all these things.

There's the initial shock of seeing something so awful, reaction to seeing it fifteen more times.

Yeah, first you get the shock and then you are almost surprised with how much you slowly get used to it.

Yeah, the desensitizing.

Yeah, the desensitizing.

I think it was clearly a very provocative thing to place at the center of such a movie.

But I did find it to be kind of a fascinating portrait of an American family and fall or something.

It's almost like this act of violence took away the innocence of the American household.

Yeah, and then at the end it's kind of obliquely revealed that the mom killed their dad and buried him in the backyard and that's where all the children with the webbed feet are going to go.

Yes.

Yes, the more structural violence around us is kind of reflected in each household in this rich Virginia suburb.

Yeah.

What a kooky movie.

It's really something.

But I do think that in terms of someone for a mentally ill rich woman to emulate or be obsessed with, it was of course it was Jackie.

Oh well, that's the other thing.

Yes, And thank you for bringing that up, because another kind of element of the Kennedy thing is this was one of the first instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the way that we think of now, when you think of how Michelle Obama is treated when she goes on a big book tour, she might as well be Lady Gaga or Beyonce or Borrow Street or something like.

She really is like a celebrity.

She's putting out a whole book right now.

That's about her style.

It's not about you know, politics or what she hopes for America, although I guess she does hope everyone looks fabulous.

So I do think that that is also kind of an interesting element of it.

Like you think of a young woman being obsessed with Madonna or being obsessed with an actress or something.

Yeah, if this was nineteen eighty three, it's just a little odd.

Yes, totally, she would be so obsessed with this very recent I.

Know, I'm trying to think what the equivalent is, like in two thousand and five, What was the tragedy that happened that someone would be Well, maybe let's not let's not look too much into that.

But I actually think that's part of it.

She is weird when she shows up to that party dress as Jackie.

That's not normal.

That means, you know, it's kind of like nerdy kid being into comic books.

When all the other kids are into race cars or whatever.

It's her version of being a weird girl who takes photos of dead birds.

Yeah, but it's an interesting little character study of this very mentally a woman who has, among other things, delusions of grandeur.

Even though she is o sensibly very wealthy.

It seems like all the money is gone and like there's something a little gray gardens about it.

Yes, exactly, that's another Kennedy parallel.

I feel, honestly even just you know, we're obviously now talking in broad archetypes, but the archetype of the sort of distant but controlling mother.

The fact that, yes, as you say, in this giant house, the.

Furniture is nice, but the kitchen's a mess, and the maid is gone and are there sheets on the bed?

Right?

And of course there's this I mean, I keep wanting to say, waspyo.

But of course the Kennedy's are Catholic famously, but thank you.

Yes, but there's this very proper speak.

Even when talking about extremely dark issues, everything has to be couched in politeness.

Yeah, I find the It's funny you mentioned the kitchen.

One of the big plot points is that because of the hurricane the power goes out, so the oven doesn't work, so they can't make things dinner.

And I feel like that's also very obvious nod to there is no coziness in this family, Like they can't even cook dinner.

They're there for Thanksgiving on all they have to eat is so it's cold.

Yes, exactly.

I mean I'm just looking at some of these quotes.

Troy Spelling goes, boy, it's been a long day, and then Jaggie o goes not as long as yesterday.

Yesterday it was twenty four whole hours.

If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie.

It's really full of because it is.

It's kind of a showcase for her to be as stranged.

She's taping the windows to prepare for the rain because she saw it somewhere and she saw it on the news.

But it'll leave goo on the windows.

But goo on the windows.

Goo is what tape is all about.

Who is what makes a tape instead of paper?

She's right.

I have to say, you know, would I recommend this film?

I would say yes.

I say, get a group of friends together, yeah, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out some orders, make sure the oven is working.

Yeah, she's crackers something not not super pretentious, maybe not a great chardin Ney, yes.

Yes, and just don't have a ball.

I mean this quote love is for people with tiny lives.

I mean there's some real poetry.

And isn't the second part of that in tiny Little heads or something?

Yeah?

So anyway, I think this gets an enthusiastic one thumb up and one thumb down, but we're not sure whose thumb is witch.

Go see it for yourself, Yes, go see it for yourself.

There's so much cultural detritus that references the Kennedy's that is completely you know, seatier in certain in terms of the type of stuff we talk about.

But it is fun to see, aside from the super popular depictions of the Kennedy's, how this stuff gets watered down and passed down and then reappropriated in these weird kookie ways.

It just is in the DNA of American pop culture so much that someone can write an off Broadway play that then gets adapted into a film that then is like reclaimed as a cult classic that is about twins that have an ancestral relationship in which they fetishize the Kennedy assassination.

And honestly, I do really mean this is that over the course of this podcast, obviously you and I at this point have watched quite a few movies that, as you say, are just so Oscar Baby and trying so hard to be taken seriously that they end up becoming essentially like lifetime movies.

And this goes in the other direction.

And I do prefer this.

Yeah, no, I completely agree.

I prefer this.

I think it's a very funny double feature with you know, Pabl Lourian's Jackie starting Natalie Portman, because both of them are such campy, cooky performances in just opposite ways.

I mean, Perker Posey is not trying to win an Oscar, She's trying to win, of course, an audience award at Sun Dance.

That's right, but it is it's funny.

It's funny the way that this cultural iconography gets remixed and reappropriated for each different age and for each different audience.

And as we said, with Julia Fox wearing this exact costume basically just this year, it's not stopping anytime soon.

I mean, we're about to see a Jack Schlassberg congressional run.

RFK is as ever in the news for reasons both political and personal.

The Kennedy legacy is violent and upsetting in a lot.

I have to mark myself safe from it every morning when I wake up.

So yeah, I actually think the Julia Fox Halloween costume, the fact that it happened this Halloween and she had the suit covered in blood, I think we're never going to shake this cultural morbid fascination with one of the most gruesome public murders in modern American history.

And not to mention Ryan Murphy working on the JFK Junior Show, There's about to be an onslaught of Kennedy content, So listeners of this podcast will be the only ones prepared in America.

You heard it here first.

That's it for this week's episode.

Next week we will be going back to talking about the actual Kennedy family and not just the fictional portrayal of Kennedy related kinks.

So subscribe and follow United States of Kennedy for all Things Kennedy every week.

United States of Kennedy is hosted by Me, Julia Clair, and George Saveres.

Original music by Joshua Chopolski.

Editing by Graham Gibson.

Mixing and mastering by Doug Bame.

Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson.

Our producer is Carmen Laurent.

Our executive producer is Jenna Cagele.

Created by Lyra Smith.

United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart Podcasts.