What's the first thing you think of when I say Kennedy, The style, the.

Great the intelligence, They're rich.

I think JFK an RFK might have been cool, But I don't know Robert Kennedy.

If he didn't like you, he could be incredibly fucking.

Taylor Swift for some reason.

Then I start to think about the mom.

So many places my mind goes when it comes to Kennedy's.

Hi.

I'm Lyra Smith and.

I'm George Savers, and this is the United States of Kennedy.

A podcast all about the Kennedys, A family that symbolizes whatever you wanted to symbolize, the American dream, American statesmanship, nostalgia for twentieth century American liberalism, the power of nepotism, the power of media spin, the power of being Catholic, and from Massachusetts.

They're America's royal family.

Every week will go into one aspect of the Kennedy story through.

Research and gossip we heard, and personal anecdotes.

Oh yeah, Larra, you have so many of those.

It's very strange.

Each time I've brought this podcast up to like friends or family, I get a new one popping up, and the juiciest one was about a family friend who interned for JFK and then had an affair and then broke up with him once he tried to get her to have a threesome with him and Bobby, I'm.

Sorry, are you saying there was a Kennedy who had an affair?

Yeah?

That is really crazy to believe.

But I don't know.

I mean, I guess, well, I guess we'll have to do our own research and see.

I have to say, I want to tease one of my stories.

They're not as juicy as yours, but a re one I heard from a friend involved a pet snake, so I'm excited to get into that in a later episode.

But generally, we're going to explore everything that has to do with the Kennedy's week after week.

We're going to look at everything from what really happened at chap Equittic to the fashion of proto influencer Carolyn Bissett to the online antics of Jack Schlossberg.

Well look at where RFK Junior came from, what he wants, how he found his way into the Trump White House.

And we'll also talk about later topics like the shocking number of very good movies and some kind of bad ones inspired by the Kennedys.

I'm thinking Oliver Stone's JFK, Natalie Portman's performances, Jackie O, The Parker Posey cult classic House of Yes, and of course our favorite, the infinitely rewatchable Gray Gardens.

The first piece of clothing that I ever bought on the Internet was a T shirt of Little Edie, and it's kind of like the Chay Gavara shirt, but underneath it says revolution.

And listen, I no whys detected.

I remember the first time I saw Grey Gardens.

I was living in San Francisco and I went to a screening at the Castro Theater that I believe was hosted by two drag queens dressed as Big Edie and Little Eg.

Oh my gosh, that's so good.

It was heaven.

Each week we'll revisit a different historical event, tabloid controversy, or pop culture moment and try to get closer to answering the question, what is it about the Kennedy family that keeps us locked in?

When Jack Schlasberg TikTok pops up, I honestly can't look away.

Hey, everybody, Valentine's Day is coming up in one month and I need a Valentine.

I don't have a Valentine right now, So if you want to be my Valentine, please like, comment and share, write me a message DM me.

Someone from my team will get back to you.

I can't make any promises.

I'm going to pick the best Valentine for me, So show us your stuff and thanks a lot.

That is JFK's grandson.

I'n alerting the world that he's still in need of a Valentine leading up to Valentine's Day this year, so we should probably introduce ourselves.

I'm Lyra Smith.

I've been making podcasts for over a decade.

I've worked on shows like Stown, This American Life, and The.

Dream, and I am George.

I'm a comedian and a writer.

I was a former editor at Gawker and I'm currently the host of the comedy podcast Stradio Lab.

But before we get into it all, Lyra, don't you think we should introduce the cast of characters in our story.

It's necessary because there are so many Kennedys in each generation and their stories build on each other.

So we have the patriarch, Joe Kennedy.

His grandparents immigrated from Ireland, He's born in eighteen eighty eight and married Rose Fitzgerald in nineteen fourteen, and he basically lived out the American dream.

He amassed a huge fortune and he and Rose had nine kids.

This is the original lineup of the famous Kennedy family, and you've.

Definitely heard of some of them.

So of course we have JFK.

You might know him as the thirty fifth President of the United States.

Some of his greatest hits include ask Not what your country can do for you, The Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis, signing the first nuclear weapons treaty, establishing the Peace Corps, his marriage to Jackie Kennedy, who's a rumored affair with Marilyn Monroe.

He was, of course assassinated in Texas in nineteen sixty three in one of the most memorable days in American history.

Then we have JFK's brother and his Attorney General RFK.

And no it's not the one that is in the news lately.

It's his father, Bobby Kennedy.

Bobby also ran for president and was also famously assassinated shod publicly five years after JFK in nineteen sixty eight.

The brothers are of course the most lasting famous members of the family, but I've always been more interested in their sister Rosemary.

There was also Kick as she was known, and Ted, who has his own infamy later on.

And the one that I feel like I grew up with seeing in a government position.

Sure, and I thought that he was just a big joke, because my first memory of Ted Kennedy is a Mad Magazine.

He is sort of a classic Mad Magazine character he had.

Especially at this time.

He had like the perfect frame and face to fit like the illustrations.

And that's literally all I remember is just that he seemed to be like the perfect cartoon character.

And I've since learned more about him, but as a kid, I was just like, oh, yeah, that Ted Kennedy.

He's the joke one, right.

No, they do all have sort of a version, especially the men, a version of the same face.

And you can have like the more cartoonish one, you can have the redhead one, you can have the more handsome one, you can have the more kind of gooky looking one.

But anyway, we have those nine kids, many grew up and had their own children who also went on to become pretty famous.

So this brings us to the next generation, we have JFA Kay's children, so that is JFK Junior and Caroline Kennedy, who was most recently the Ambassador to Australia under Joe Biden, and she was also the Ambassador to Japan under Barack Obama.

JFK Junior, her brother, was an attorney, a journalist, a magazine publisher, and many other things, but perhaps most importantly, he was the most eligible bachelor in Manhattan until he married Carolyn Bassett, which was a relationship the media covered mercilessly until their tragic death in a plane crash in nineteen ninety nine, something we'll get into a lot in a future episode.

Then we have other notable Kennedys of this generation.

We have Bobby Kennedy's son RFK Junior, Eunice Kennedy's daughter Maria Shriver who went on to marry Arnold Schwarzenegger, former Connecticut state Senator Ted Kennedy Junior, and former Massachusetts Congressman Joe Kennedy the second.

Then after that generation, we finally get to current day with Jack Schlossberg, JFK's only grandson and Pat Schwarzenegger, Marias Shreiver and Ur old Schwarzenegger's son, Yes, from White Lotus.

All right, we're getting ahead of ourselves, so let's start at the beginning.

George, what was your memory of the Kennedys growing up?

So?

I had a sort of very splintered childhood because I spent half my childhood in Greece and half my childhood in suburban New Jersey.

So I spent my early childhood in Athens, moved to New Jersey from second grade to eighth grade, and then moved back to Greece for high school.

So my memories are very kind of tied to whatever location I was at the time to state the obvious, much like everyone's memories are, one might argue, And so I have the sort of, you know, the New Jersey element of my Kennedy memories, which is just like you know, being in the northeast.

Of course, I was aware of the Kennedys.

I was aware of Ted Kennedy, as I said, I would see him on TV.

I watched documentaries and movies about the Kennedy's.

I knew them as sort of this emblem of American liberalism.

But I think what stuck with me a little more was what the Kennedy meant in Greece, and in Greece, a huge part of kind of Greek pop culture and contemporary Greek lore was Jackie's relationship with Aristotle Onassis.

So obviously Jackie already kind of beloved by the Greeks when she was married to JFK.

There was all these stories about her visiting the Parthenon and saying publicly that she would like to see the Elgin Marbles return to Greece, which is sort of like the magic sentence.

You have to tell any Greek person if you want them on your.

Side, what are the Elgin Marbles?

What is that?

So the Elgin Marbles are a series of sculptures that were removed from the Parthenon I believe in the nineteenth century, and they are currently in the British Museum.

So many people believe they should be returned to Greece.

And if you ever want to pander to Greek people, just say you believe the Elgin Marbles should be returned.

That, actually, I mean, honestly, feels like a really progressive statement for a first lady at that time.

Yes, no, absolutely, yeah, I wonder if this was sort of like the time before media training where it was just you know, something she read in the newspaper and she said, you know, that seems unfair.

They should be a returned to Greece, and didn't really runt it by anyone.

And then there she is sort of like saying it at a I don't know, at an interviewer, to a camera or something in Greece.

But this is something that many Greek people will tell.

You know, Jackie was always a friend of Greece because she said that they should return the Elder Marbles.

But then, of course after JFK's death, she dated and then married Aristotle Onassis, who was this huge Greek shipping tycoon, just like a huge figure in Greece and one of the richest people in the world.

And that is when she really became a huge Greek celebrity.

I mean, I think they maybe lived part time in Athens.

She was sort of both beloved by certain people and also kind of you know, held in suspicion by others that really wanted Aristotle Onasis to marry Maria Callis and thought of her as sort of a you know, dare I say, gold digger, And so there were people had mixed feelings about her, she was sort of a tabloid figure, and Maria.

Kallis is the one that Angelia Jolie just played.

That is correct.

Angelina Jolie played her in the film and her relationship with Onasis was portrayed in the film, so they sort of famously were in a relationship while both of them were married.

Well, and also the whole reason that Jackie got with him is because he was with her sister, Lee Radswell, who was married.

Right exactly.

I think there was not a lot of fidelity.

I think maybe there was something about Jackie actually marrying Onassas that was like, well, this is the final straw.

We know all these people are having affairs, but how dare you make it official?

But yes, it's I mean, especially the connection between Onasas and Maria Callis, it's like these were the two most famous Greek people globally basically.

I mean he was this like rich, you know, tycoon playboy, and she was the big diva, and so I think that meant a lot in terms of, you know, Greece's place in culture around the world.

It's also interesting that it's both Pablo Lorraine, right.

Oh, yes, that's right.

Le Loraine get both Jackie starring Natalie Portman and Mario with Angelina Julie.

But anyway, so Jackie O really is, you know, she's someone that has been in the ether in Greece for a long time.

And one of my favorite sort of small elements of that is the fact that the biggest gay club in Mikonos, which is of course like the gay island in Greece, is named Jackie O and it's actually a growing empire.

There is a Jackie O Club, there is a Jackie O restaurant.

They do drag shows.

I saw someone at my gym the other day wearing a Jackie O Mikono's hat.

Wow.

And then I went online and I was like, oh, maybe I'll buy us hats as a little gag gift for the show.

Couldn't find them.

I did, however, find a photo of a Greek drag queen meeting Natalie Portman at Jackie O.

So that really is closing the loop, which is the actress that play Jackie is at the Jackie O club meeting a drag queen that's sort of, you know, dressed like a Greek goddess.

It's interesting because because I feel like another family possibly would shut that down, would be like, you're making money off of the name.

But you know, but the Kennedys.

Don't never do that.

I that is a good point.

I had never it had never even occurred to me.

I mean, it's the Kennedy's, but it also is the Jackie side of the family as well, because you know it's named Jackie.

Oh.

I mean, we'll get into this more when we talk about Grey Gardens, But the fascination with Jackie sort of extended beyond the Kennedy part of her life and towards like her own relatives, like her various cousins, the Onasis's kids, and the feelings that they had towards Jackie.

I mean, I honestly think if she starts, I mean, if her estate starts banning Jackie Omikinos, it's like, I don't know where they're going to stop, because it's sort of a whack a mole in terms of poor representations of the family name.

Lara, I want to know, what was your family's connection to the Kennedys.

So, yeah, my mom is an Irish Catholic from the DC area.

To her family, it was a huge deal that they had an Irish Catholic president.

It meant that they were seen.

They felt like this was major representation and major change for the family and then everybody else who shared their ancestry and religion, and even as like a tiny kid, my mom was like, he's the most handsome man in the world.

Because it's like that was.

It's funny now because when you I feel like looking back at like images of him, you're like, all right, he's okay.

And at that time, though, it was like, we're.

Gonna have to talk about that at some point, because you really it does feel like a form of gas lighting that you go through your entire you know, adolescence in America, where it's like he's the one who was the hot president.

Yeah, he was a hot president, and she was the hot first lady, and of.

Course not Teddy Roosevelt.

Right.

I mean it's tough because we've watched a lot of sort of like documentaries and footage and whatever and preparing for this, and from today's point of view, you don't quite get it.

But you have to remember that before the Kennedys, I mean everyone was like, you know, a painting of an old wizard.

You know, we had never had like a young, vibrant couple in the White House and don't don't fact check us on that.

I mean, that's the thing that they always say.

They're like, it's the first time anyone saw children in the Oval office in the White House, and like how impactful that was.

And I mean, also the thing about JFK is the charisma, which you know, a person who is ten times more attract when they have like an incredible personality and like presence, And I think that's like part of it.

And so much of the JFK as president origin story is you know, the famous televised debate with Nixon where Nixon came across as nervous and sweaty and JFK came across as charismatic and confident and calm.

And so it sort of sets you up for success if the person that you were being compared to on television is Richard Nixon.

But then it's sort of stuck that he his main thing is the is the charisma and the in telegenic vibe.

I think also for my mom's family, they were like for kids, they were pretty involved in civil rights protests.

I think that they have over the years combined JFK's involvement in civil rights and Bobby's involvement with civil rights to be you know, representative of what their hopes were at that time.

So it wasn't just you know, for your family.

They weren't just a symbol of Northeastern Catholicism.

It was a symbol of like American progressivism.

Like Kennedy's really like symbolized this liberalism that was so hopeful, especially for white people that wanted to feel better about themselves.

So it was so hopeful throughout the twentieth century.

Yeah, I mean, they're really it in terms of the personification of that hope from that time.

And you know, the assassinations are like the loss of innocence for so many Americans that like that was their president, and they were you know, proud and happy and felt like this is such a like youthful restart to you know, what America can do.

But I will say even with all of that, my big family story, or the story that I remember growing up, was about how RFK Junior was heavily pursuing my mom to date, and she rejected him repeatedly, which is something she's a lady, I know, which is something that as a child, You're like, what are you talking about?

Are you kidding me?

Like, why would you not like do it for the story?

But you know they felt differently back then.

But also she had a lot more intel, and she also is a lot smarter than me.

I would say, well, maybe she's the one who could have saved us from what we'd now.

No, well, this is the thing, is that like when he was running for president and you know, married to Cheryl Hines.

I teazed her and I was like, mom, you could have been the first lady.

And my mom can be kind of morbid again Irish Catholic.

So she said, no, I would not have been the first lady.

I would have killed myself, which is how I learned that his previous wife committed suicide.

She said, what you are seeing today is not the man that we were around then.

Yeah, And I'm you brought up RFK Junior because there is something about him being the most visible Kennedy right now in twenty twenty five that I think, to me encapsulates why we wanted to make a show like this now.

Because one of the constants of twentieth century America and even early twenty first century America was just like what the Kennedy family meant, what it connoted, like what we think about when we think about the Kennedys.

And there is something about RFK Junior, with his current political views, with his place in the Trump administration, being the most visible Kennedy that really just shows that there has been some sort of break in how things are happening all around us in America.

Even though they were never perfect, always deeply flawed, the representation of the like the pride and respect and the class that their family represented was a net positive for like our cultural understanding of like what a family in politics should look like and how they should behave, and we are losing that every day.

I think it's sort of you know, their flaws were America's flaws, and it's yes, their flaws were what you know, they were hypocrisy, they were nepotism, They were kind of like this pretense that they are they can somehow be progressive an anti establishment, despite the fact that they are one hundred percent always the establishment.

It is, you know, achieving the American dream by amassing immense wealth and then passing it down to your children and sort of building generational wealth.

It's the Kennedys were sort of like, how good can you be while still having all the flaws that America has?

And in some ways RFK in his own way is a classic Kennedy archetype.

I mean he struggled with addiction and exhibited a certain kind of bad way behavior in his youth.

He like championed liberal causes earlier on, he was an environmental lawyer like his whole you know, he railed against fracking and pollution.

Even later he spoke out about forever chemicals and microplastics.

He like talked about raising the minimum wage, and he has that Kennedy face too.

There were elements of him where were like, Okay, this is just a different, more contemporary version of the kind of Kennedy that we are used to.

Even the scandals are so Kennedy to me, Like the fact that he was accused of flying on Jeffrey Epstein's play, and I mean that sounds like something a Kennedy would do.

Of course, I mean his history of infidelity, the fact that he's like married to a Hollywood actress.

Like again, all these are very sort of like Kennedy things.

And then I think where it really takes a turn is we start going into the conspiracy theorizing, the anti vaccine activism, the embrace of Donald Trump, and there's sort of just this like break from tradition, And I think something that I find fascinating about it is that it like is emblematic of a larger shift in American politics and this larger political realignment where what we think of as liberal and conservative just is not what it was in nineteen ninety eight or nineteen sixty four or even you know, twenty twelve.

It's funny that you mentioned him going into the conspiracy theories, because there are so many conspiracy theories about the Kennedy family themselves, including this concept of a Kennedy curse, which even talking about RFK Junior and his like rise and fall, it's like there's always going to be evidence to support this idea that the Kennedys are cursed.

They're in the public eye, they have great wealth, they have great privilege.

When they make a mistake or when you know, tragedy befalls them, it can always get knocked under this idea of the family being curse.

It is sort of a I don't want to say it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

But there's something where you hear something tragic about a Kennedy and you almost nod your head solemnly, like, well, you know, something bad was bound to happen.

You've sort of been trained to think that way.

I mean, especially now that there's this new generation of young, handsome Kennedy's, there's a part of me that's like, oh my god, don't leave the house, Patrick Schwarzenegger, don't go to Thailand.

You don't know what might happen.

When RFK Junior was running for president, he had a fundraising element that was that you could get a ticket to go on a sailboat with him, and every single person on Twitter was just like, do not get on a boat, don't get on a boat, don't get on a boat, don't get on a plane, don't get in a car with any Kennedy ever.

I remember, personally, RFK came into my consciousness because I'm a huge curb your enthusiasm Larry David fan, and famously Larry David was the one who introduced RFK to Cheryl Hines.

You know, during a different time, back when RFK Junior was in fact still a proud Democrat who was an environmental lawyer.

Despite I have to say people call him an anti vaxer.

Being an anti vaxer is one thing.

He is an anti vaccine activist, it is oh, he's not.

He doesn't just have beliefs that are cuckoo.

He travels to other countries and convinces them not to vaccinate.

He has lobbied with celebrities in DC against against vaccines.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there.

The point is in terms of the Kennedy Curse, I remember, like when I read that Larry David introduced RFK to Cheryl Hines, I'm like, leave her alone, Like why are you introducing Why are you literally introducing her to this family where oh my god, every single generation fifty tragedies happened this poor woman.

And the photos of him at their wedding are incredible.

It just looks like they're filming an episode.

He looks so upset, so funny, but he's in every photo.

The wedding photographer definitely was following him around, very interested.

In what he was going to do.

But also, you know, that's another of my initial understandings of the Kennedy's was the JFK junior episode of Seinfeld, which you know, I'm sure Larry David maybe felt like he was giving her her a lain moment trying to look up with the Kennedy.

It's like, I mean, there is this lasting idea that what every single woman wants is to date a Kennedy.

Sure, Taylor Swift, Yeah, Taylor Swift.

She could have had anybody.

She got her Kennedy.

I mean, we don't even know who.

At some point, Jack Schlasberg is going to debut a girlfriend and that is going to be a huge moment.

Yes, he's on Riyah.

I've seen him on Riyah many times.

Really, I didn't know that.

Yeah, I've I tried to message him.

You know, I have not gotten a response.

I did delete the app.

Oh my god, sacrificing your journalistic integrity, I know.

But yeah, he was one of.

Those celebs that were kind of famously always showing up for people on there.

And we did a little like Reddit gossip research and you know, to our surprise, found nothing but like positive reviews of him as an individual.

And it seems like he's had a few girlfriends and there are no negative stories to tell so far.

He does seem not to use a cliche to be sort of what you might call chaotic good at the end of the day.

I mean, I don't know if I would like to, you know, be roommates with him or something, but I think he ultimately his heart is maybe in the right place.

It's a lot of singing.

Sure, it would be hard to share space with him.

Probably he does have a.

Sort of theater kid vibe about him and also like forever being celebrated for just putting any piece of himself out publicly.

Because the thing is is that like his mother somewhat famously and many of the other like past Kennedys, like they don't put their personal being out into the public like that.

They stay very kind of stoic.

They have their you know, this is the positive story of them, is that they are public servants or that they are working in politics for the good of the American people, and that they care about committing to a life of public service.

In a lot of ways.

Until RFK Junior, most of the Kennedys have stayed pretty quiet outside of these diplomatic duties.

Jack Schlosberg was doing that for a while.

He was clearly media trained and operating as the family of representative.

I mean, there are a couple of counter examples.

I'm thinking, you know, JFK Junior in his heyday was a true socialite.

I think that was also sort of part of what you know sounded the alarm bells in the Kennedy family was that, you know, the Kennedies are not supposed to be socialites like prancing around New York City.

But if there's one thing RFK and Jack have in common is that they love showing off their torsos.

Yes, I feel like the first video I saw of Jack Schlasberg was him singing shirtless in a parking lot, and I didn't realize who it was, but I was still captivated.

And then when he was on the skateboard reciting the poem was a Lord Byron poem, Like, you know, he's having a great time, but yeah, now he's gotten the attention.

It feels like people have been watching him very closely, and they notice whenever he pulls back from social media.

But he is just one of many Kennedy's.

Yes, it's being watched is just like a consistent part of the Kennedy story, and Jack Schlasberg is just the latest chapter of that.

At every point, you know, people sort of like keep up with them with a mix of fascination, reverence, suspicion, and it's not dying down anytime soon, so we are excited to jump into even more Kennedy stories.

Everything that we mentioned today was just the tip of the iceberg.

We have many, many weeks and months to get into how we got here and where we came from.

So subscribe and follow to United States of Kennedy for all things Kennedy every week.

Thanks for listening.