Hey gang, it's Patrick from Gays Do The D.

And Vincent from Camp Kaiju Monster Movie Podcast, and we are here for another crossover episode of Magic and Monsters, where we explore the wonderful world of creature features.

On today's episode, we're releasing the hounds with an exploration of 1959's The Shaggy Dog.

So, grab your popcorn.

get your bowl of dog treats, and away we go.

To all who come to this happy place, welcome.

Well, hello there, Vincent.

How's it going?

Well, hello there, Patrick.

Here we meet the meeting of two titans of the podcasting industry.

No, just two people say that, and it's you and me.

No, I'm sure there are...

other podcasters who say the same thing to each other in basements all across the land.

Basements throughout the United States of America.

There are titans amongst us.

I like it.

I like the way you think.

It's been a while since our last crossover episode of Magic and Monsters, and I'm glad we're doing another one because I really, I still haven't gotten the taste of Morbius out of my mouth.

And so I'm glad we're doing a new episode.

I did re -listen to it today just to remember the good times and all the laughs we had.

Sure, sure.

It was a fun episode.

It was not a great movie.

And here's the thing.

Listeners, you know this.

We picked Morbius kind of in a pinch.

We did.

So with that said, it's not like a purely Disney movie, right?

It's a Sony production.

Sure.

Yes, it's Marvel.

It's a whole thing.

Yeah.

But the shaggy dog.

100 % Disney.

Like when you think of live action Disney movies.

Oh, man.

This is it.

Classic.

Classic Disney movie.

We picked it very intentionally because it's...

So here's a little background into my head of why I picked this movie.

So Vince and I were talking about upcoming episodes.

We were trying to figure out what to do.

And the newest release, the remake of The Wolfman was coming out when we were talking about this.

And I was trying to rack my brain like, what's Disney's answer to The Wolfman?

And immediately I was like, The Shaggy Dog.

Is obviously the answer.

And I.

My ignorant self was like.

Really?

But then once I watched this movie.

Like they.

They call it.

They mention lycanthropy.

Which is werewolfism.

Like this is a bonafide.

Werewolf movie.

As much as you can get.

Without saying werewolf, it's a weredog movie, I suppose.

I'm so glad I've convinced you of this because you...

I'm here for it.

I'm in love with it.

We both thought it was a funny idea, but I was like, trust me, I promise you, this is their answer to The Wolfman.

Oh, good stuff.

Okay, so do you have...

So was this your first foray into The Shaggy Dog, watching it for this recording?

Or had you seen it before as a kid?

Or what's your history with The Shaggy Dog?

I had never seen it.

I'd always heard about it.

Yeah.

But no, I'd never seen it before.

I remember the Tim Allen movie being released, though I never saw that one either.

And what do you know?

It's not even streaming on Disney Plus.

Did you know that?

So you and everybody else did not see the movie, The Shaggy Dog, starring Tim Allen.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I read into it.

There's a reason, I guess, Disney.

I mean, that's a whole thing.

Disney, you know.

Keep things from people.

They do.

They are good at sweeping movies that they're not proud of under the rug.

But it's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

That never happened.

Let it fly.

Come on.

I agree.

I actually think that just be, I mean, I know there's only enough, there's only so much room on platforms like Disney Plus to hold house movies.

But it's like, I don't know.

Why fully hide some of these movies?

It makes no sense.

Because it's not available anywhere, I don't think, the remake of The Shaggy Dog.

But anyways.

Yeah.

Neither here nor there.

Okay.

So yeah, I actually do remember watching this movie as a kid.

My dad is a huge fan of these old classic Disney movies, of any old movie, like anything black and white.

My dad has seen it for sure.

But he definitely introduced me to the Shaggy Dog when I was a kid.

And I remember watching it again for this episode.

I was like, oh man, this is fully coming back to me.

But there were a lot of things that flew over my head as a kid, like the lycanthropy and shape -shifting conversation.

And I was like, that just fully went over my head as a kid.

I just remember watching The Dog because it was the cutest part of the movie.

And, you know, that's what kids latched onto.

So they made a movie.

They strangely made a movie that was for kids and adults at the exact same time, which is pretty hard to do.

I mean, I'm sure we'll get into it.

But this movie is, I read a review.

It's like three movies in one.

Yeah.

You've got like this gothic.

haunted house spooky vibes in the beginning and then it becomes a coming of age story where we really focus on the teenagers and then the last third of the movie is a cold war thriller strangely eyes yep i mean i guess which makes sense but given the time it was released like the cold war was happening at this time and so it was sort of infused in a lot of movies back then but this was like very blatant like a spy Thriller at the end of the movie.

I loved it.

Yeah.

I just wasn't expecting it in my Disney movie.

For sure.

For sure.

Okay.

So in Disney history, this is, for those keeping track, this is Disney's actually, interestingly, their very first foray into live action comedies.

They had been producing live action movies since 1950, I believe, with the...

Treasure Island was their very first live -action movie.

Ten years later, then, they realized that comedies are starting to become a thing that people are going to.

It's not just for TV anymore.

People want to go to the movies to see comedies.

And so Disney, this is their answer to a comedy for families as well.

And they pulled out all the stars for this one at the time.

Everybody who was a name, either on TV or a Disney kid, was in this movie.

They were not pulling any punches here when it came to the cast.

And it's a pretty stellar cast, too, I have to say.

So I'll just go through them really quickly here, and then I'll let you talk about the production crew, Vincent.

First off, we have Fred McMurray as Wilson Daniels, the father.

Just a huge Disney's name.

This was his first Disney movie, but he later became a huge Disney's dad, basically.

He was in The Absent -Minded Professor, Son of Flubber, The Happiest Millionaire, lots and lots of things.

My Three Sons was one of his biggest TV shows.

Huge, huge star at the time.

We have Tommy Kirk, who is playing Will B.

Daniels, a .k .a.

the Shaggy Dog, the oldest son of Fred McBury's character.

He was Disney's It Kid for a very long time.

He was in Old Yeller, Swiss Family Robinson, The Misadventures of Merlin Jones.

The list goes on.

He was front and center in Disney history at this time, so he was the star of the show.

We go on and have Kevin Corcoran as Moochie Daniels, the younger brother, another Disney kid, old the other, Pollyanna, Swiss Family Robinson, the Mickey Mouse Club.

Interestingly, his character's name is Moochie in this movie, and he was forever then known as Moochie from then on.

No one really called him Kevin Corcoran anymore.

They just called him Moochie going forward.

Even, I think, on the Mickey Mouse Club, he was listed as Moochie instead of Kevin Corcoran, which is interesting.

We have Annette Funicello, huge Mickey Mouse Club star at the time, everyone's dream girl, girl next door.

She went on to do Babes in Toyland and basically all of the beach party bingo movies with Frankie Avalon that you can think of.

She was probably in it, Annette Funicello.

Moving on, then we have Roberta Shore as Francesca Andersey, who is sort of the love interest girl next door, another Mickey Mouse Club kid.

We have Cecil Calloway as Professor Plumcott.

Not a huge role in the movie, and he was not really a Disney actor either, but he was a big actor at the time.

He had just, I believe...

recently won the Academy Award for his role in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.

No, he didn't win.

He was nominated for the Academy Award for his role in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.

And then rounding out the cast, we have Tim Considine as Buzz Miller, Will B.'s sort of best friend, question mark, known for his role in The Hardy Boys.

And then he went on to do My Three Sons with Fred McMurray.

And then we have Jean Hagen as Frida Daniels, the mother, the matriarch of the family.

This was also her only Disney credit.

but she was a big actress at the time.

She was nominated for an Oscar as Lena Lamont in Singing in the Rain.

A lot of people might remember her from that.

So big, big, huge cast.

Yeah.

Lots of, like you said, young Disney stars.

You're certainly the expert in that realm.

I had to do a double take with Jean Hagen.

Not sure there, but I watched this movie with, I watched the Shaggy Dog with Elle and my wife.

And I said, that's, you know who that is?

And she was like, well, she didn't know, but she needed a reminder.

And I was like.

what am I dumb or something?

And I just felt very proud of myself for making it.

I was like, there she is.

Well, I mean, that was an iconic role.

Like everyone who loves that movie and it just, yeah, she's so great in it.

Absolutely.

So good.

Cecil Kellaway, he, the decade prior had been nominated for another movie.

He plays a leprechaun in a fantasy movie called The Luck of the Irish.

That's right.

I've never seen it.

Yeah.

Sounds like it's a Disney movie, but it's not.

Was the TV movie.

That's what I'm thinking of.

The Disney Channel original.

Sure.

Luck of the Irish.

Very different motion picture.

Very different.

Then, yeah, he was nominated for Guess Who's Coming to Dinner a decade, well, in the 60s.

It was like 1967.

That's when it was.

Okay.

Yeah.

My timeline is off.

And then Fred McMurray at this time.

This was his first Disney movie, like you said, but he'd been a long, he'd had a long history playing mostly supporting roles.

He has the lead in Double Indemnity, which is one of the best film noirs ever made.

And it's great to see him play against type because he has a very fatherly figure.

But when you see him in darker roles, like Double Indemnity, it works really well.

So, he does have some pretty good range.

But obviously found his true calling with these Disney movies.

Yeah, he kind of reminds me of like a poor man's Gregory Peck a little bit.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I think I read Gregory Peck.

Disney maybe originally offered Peck the role, this role, this father role.

I can see it.

It's funny you mentioned that.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, I can see that happening for sure.

But Fred McMurray was cheaper.

For sure, for sure.

And this act made him a household name, though, after he did Shaggy Dog, for sure.

Right.

Amazing, amazing.

The knockoff Gregory Peck.

That's right.

If only, I wish.

I wish someone would say that about me.

Yeah, talk about the crew then a little bit behind the camera.

This movie was directed by Charles.

Barton this was his one and only Disney credit although I did search his name and I found a movie called Toby Tyler okay that is apparently from Disney again they're hiding stuff from us then because you can click on the link there's a whole Wikipedia page Toby Tyler or 10 Weeks with a Circus.

It looks absolutely nightmarish.

There's a giant clown and a monkey with a gun.

Oh, my God.

Are you looking at this?

No, thank you.

Whoa.

Well, let's see.

It's produced by Walt Disney Productions, Buena Vista Distribution from 1960.

That's a Disney picture.

Yikes.

Okay.

I'm going to have to look into this movie.

This might be our next Magic and Monsters.

I bet it's on Disney Plus.

It has to be, right?

Well, I don't know.

No, it's not.

Crazy.

Okay, good to know.

I wouldn't mind them sweeping this one under the rug.

It looks horrifying.

Well, Charles Barton did actually have...

an association with horror as well as comedy.

He directed, he was a studio director, like a director for hire.

He directed a ton of Abbott and Costello movies, most of which I've never seen, most of which most people haven't seen.

But one that a lot of people have seen is Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein from 1948.

Truly not just me fanboying, but one of the funniest movies ever made.

And if you like young Frankenstein, you're going to like this movie.

It's all the classic monsters with Abbott and Costello and hilarity ensues.

Yeah, it's worth a watch for sure.

And then a lesser known film that I want to plug is Abbott and Costello meet the killer Boris Karloff.

That's the name of the movie.

Boris Karloff is the star.

He does not play himself, but it's like a thriller comedy.

If you find it, check it out.

Good to know.

I'll look that up.

I actually love Abbott and Costello.

They're, I mean, genius, genius, groundbreaking comedy.

Yeah.

And Charles Barton, I guess, had a hand in a lot of their success on the screen.

Obviously, he's the director.

So, he's well suited for something like The Shaggy Dog.

I was laughing out loud all the time.

And then I made the connection.

I was like, oh.

I guess there's a reason I'm laughing so much.

The physical comedy in this movie is pretty great.

And the timing is so great as well for their first venture into a comedy ever for Disney.

I was like, it was impressive how things that they pulled off back in 1950.

I mean, like the effects even were pretty remarkable in this movie.

So well done to Charles Barton.

Oh, yeah.

I can't wait to talk about the effects in a little bit.

So.

Well, just, I might as well do that now.

So, an actor you didn't mention was Sammy the dog.

Yeah, fair enough.

Plays the old sheep dog, the titular shaggy dog.

That's right.

That's right.

Incredible dog.

Like, crazy.

Crazy the stunts that this dog was doing.

And most of it is him.

I don't, Patrick, apologies if I'm getting ahead of myself.

No, no.

I don't know if you've written any of this stuff down, but.

No.

I was actually surprised to read that most of the dog you see.

is Sammy doing his own tricks.

It's one dog.

They had originally planned to cast three dogs, but Sammy was so talented.

He just did it all.

He even drives the car.

Not really, but that is the actual dog sitting in the steering wheel.

Yeah.

There's a driver hidden under the hood, but that's the dog behind a wheel, which is like what everyone talks about.

It's pretty remarkable, the shot that they get of that dog driving the car.

Pretty remarkable.

And I have to say, I didn't look into it.

I should have.

But the puppetry, though, so there are some scenes, some close -up shots where the dog is talking.

And the puppet of the dog that they're using, I have to say, is pretty incredible for 1959 standards.

A couple of times I was like, wait, is that the dog with peanut butter in its mouth?

Or is that a puppet?

And sometimes you didn't know.

I didn't know some scenes which one was the puppet and which one was the dog.

So I was very impressed with what they did with all these special effects, puppetry, and the actual dog.

It was very impressive, even for Chinese standards.

There were a couple of scenes with an actor in a dog suit.

Even so, like just the blend, the combination of techniques.

Yeah.

Really impressive.

Very impressive.

I think it sells it completely.

Yeah.

There's no way I could do that today with, you know, like with what knowledge I have of filmmaking, I still couldn't have pulled off what they were doing.

It was incredible.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

I think you and I could actually play dogs though for about the same size as a sheep dog.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I can play Sandy and Annie today.

You know, tall people can never play a dog, but we could.

That's absolutely right.

Absolutely right.

I am.

I am notoriously known as the size of a sheepdog.

So there we are.

Oh, boy.

So The Shaggy Dog was written by Bill Walsh and Lily Hayward.

Walsh wrote The Love Bug and The Absent -Minded Professor and co -produced Mary Poppins.

Hayward wrote for the Zorro TV series.

The music in The Shaggy Dog was composed by Paul J.

Smith, also did music for Snow White, Cinderella, Peter Pan, and Bambi, for which he won an Oscar.

And I must say, when I revisited Bambi a few years ago, the score stands out.

It's just really almost experimental in the way it's incorporated with the visuals too.

It's just kind of like a symphony of sound, if you will.

Yeah, he's known for writing these compositions that are basically another character in the movie.

And actually, I mean, you don't notice the music a ton in The Shaggy Dog, but when it's there, it fits it.

It's very complementary to exactly what's going on in the movie.

So it's pretty cool what he does.

So what do you say?

Let's give a quick – I have a little plot scene breakdown of the movie, and you can – stop me whenever you want to Vincent, or I can just plow through the whole thing.

Uh, if something strikes your fancy is something you want to talk about specifically.

Otherwise I'll just, well, I was wondering if, if, yeah, we wanted to take our time through this and relive the moments.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

This is a movie I wish, well, I did not see it alone, so I'm really glad, but I would, I would also watch this movie with a group of people who are slightly inebriated because It's just a hoot.

That's a perfect word for it.

It is a hoot of a movie, I have to say.

Oh, my gosh.

It's just a delight.

It's a delight of a movie.

Okay, yeah, fair enough.

Okay, so we open up with a classic 1950s, 1960s sort of opening credits with this animated, or was it, I couldn't tell if it was like stop motion, claymation kind of.

Anyways, these opening credits with the Shaggy Dog and this.

Just wonderful, wonderful, very 50s and 60s Shaggy Dog theme song where they're basically just saying, Shaggy Dog, Shaggy Dog.

I mean, it's just horribly written, but so delightful at the same time.

So delightful.

Monster movie connection here.

Yeah.

This was a fad in these types of movies to have a tie -in theme song.

Because it's all marketing, right?

You want to make...

sure that you're now on the radio and you have a number one hit for sure oh like 1958's the blob has its own theme song written by burt baccarat oh my gosh yeah on my halloween playlist and there's like the purple people eater there's there's like a whole it was a thing so the shaggy dog fits right in with the the overall tenor of the times absolutely absolutely uh okay so theme song happens uh the film then opens on this very classic 1950s suburb with uh strangely a narrator in the very beginning that we never hear from again ever again that's you know you're right wow you're bringing it back yeah yeah but it's very like 1950s suburban yeah um Yeah, exactly.

Just setting the scene for us.

So the narrator introduces us to Wilson Daniels, played by Fred McBurry.

We learn that he's a retired mailman with an aversion to dogs.

He itches and hates dogs and he doesn't like them.

AKA, he's a mailman.

Very classic.

Setting up for a comedy.

He's trying to enjoy a quiet morning with his wife, but his peace is shattered when he spots a stray dog on the lawn, which reignites his sort of canine -related anxieties.

Just very, very setting the scene for this.

He's having breakfast with his wife, and then there's an explosion.

So, meanwhile, we'll be Daniels.

Were you going to say something, Vincent?

The explosion.

You're understating it there, my friend.

Fair, fair.

Okay, so we learn that Wilby and his brother, Moochie, are in the basement experimenting on some sort of a missile project that doesn't seem to concern the mom at all.

As you do, right?

It's Cold War, baby.

We all got missiles.

That's right.

That's right.

And so then the house starts to shake.

And you're right, Vincent, when I say shake, I mean, it's just, it's as though they're on a ship at sea and everything is just shattering, just comic gold for physical comedy.

Like they're catching plates off of tables.

It's very Mary Poppins when the cannon goes off in Mary Poppins.

It's very Disney, I felt like.

Very much so.

Everything is a practical set piece that is shaking.

I'm sure there were like a...

10 or 11 men behind the scenes just moving everything at the same time.

It was pretty funny.

It was pretty funny.

So we learned that this experiment is clearly going wrong.

And Wilby and his brother managed to launch a missile from the house straight up into the sky, out of the house, destroying the roof.

I imagine the inside of the house too, but the next time we see the house, it's very put together.

What happened to the missile?

No idea.

Oh my gosh.

It just launches into space and we've never seen it again.

They could have set off World War III with that thing.

This may be what ended the Cold War.

Who knows?

I have no idea.

It's pretty wild.

It's pretty wild.

The dad is reasonably upset with Wilby.

And he tells him he's done with this.

He has to clean out the basement.

No more experiments.

You can't be a smart kid anymore.

You can't be a curious kid anymore.

Very just sort of trying to stifle him a little bit.

So the next scene we have is Wilby's friend, I guess.

They keep calling him his friend, but they are clearly they don't like each other.

But his friend Buzz.

Pulls up, speeds up in his car to take out the neighbor girl, Allison, played by Annette Fulicello, out on a date.

The two argue over which of them gets to take her out until suddenly this new neighbor arrives, Dr.

Mikhail Andrusy and his adopted daughter, strangely, Francesca, and their shaggy English sheepdog, Chiffon, who's adorable.

You immediately fall in love with this dog.

But you also immediately know, uh -oh, there's a dog next door.

Things are starting to boil over already.

Two thoughts, Patrick.

Yeah.

One more missile thought.

The kids and it's the aftermath.

The kids are fixing the roof.

This is true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With like plaster and brushes.

Oh, wow.

Kids.

I mean, we have it easy these days.

Kids back then had to fix their own roofs.

Yeah.

There was like a 15 year old and a seven year old on the roof fixing it.

not doing a great job either because they almost hit the dad in the head with a hammer uh it's yeah it's just it's wonderful it's just and then you know just keeping in the spirit of recklessness yeah buzz pulls up in like this hot rod like think of beach boys he's just like this souped up really cool looking car but you know yeah no seat belts and also he and the other kids they look like they're 14 15 years old and i say that because i'm used to seeing teenagers played by adults so like a 15 year old looks older but in the shaggy dog no they got like legit teenagers right oh yeah yeah all these kids yeah they were mickey the mickey mouse club was in this movie basically they look like babies yeah for sure i both love and also find distracting oh interesting okay fair yeah you're driving this car you're doing all these things but like you're such a baby you're a baby yeah that is an interesting sign of the times is in that in that era like people were cast based on the age that they actually were strangely yeah and they were good too like the kids were good actors in this in this movie even little moochie he was like seven eight years old i thought he was great in this movie yeah just a thought Yeah, no, I love that.

That's a really good point.

Okay, so this new girl, Francesca, arrives and suddenly Will B and Buzz are no longer interested in Allison, played by Annette Funchal.

Or Allison at first.

I mean, she gets her, you know, she comes out on top in the end.

She figures it out.

Yeah, she kind of wins in the end, but she just is cast aside immediately.

By their newfound affection for Francesca, who speaks French.

So apparently that makes her sexy, I guess, in this movie.

She's sophisticated, I guess, is what they're both sort of attracted to.

French equals fancy, sophisticated.

Yes.

Two dum -dums who stutter over their words when they first meet her.

Right.

Oh, no, because they think she only speaks French.

That's right.

So they start speaking as you would to somebody in a foreign language, like, hello, I saved dog, or something like that.

And Francesca, right, Francesca?

Yes.

Yeah.

She says to her butler or her father, she's like, oh, he's like, who are these young men?

And she's like, oh, these are two Indians I just met.

Oh, boy.

And me, because I'm a product of a higher...

more sophisticated humor i thought she meant like india indian sure no that is not what she meant no no it's it's a sobering reminder of uh just casual racism casual racism a sign of the times absolutely yeah i was like oh i yeah that would we okay i guess they they did they sure did i mean to point out again i mean not a person of color to be seen in this movie that is you know it is these days it is very distracting now to see something like that of like oh my gosh this is just i mean again though 1959 it that it wasn't okay but it was what it was you know yeah no that joke just was like extremely dated and i was like very goodness gracious yeah It was luckily the only instance, though, I feel like in the movie that I was that I bumped up against with something like that.

Yeah.

Thanks, Sammy, the sheepdog in all his glory.

Very distracting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

OK, sure.

Sorry.

No, no, we're good.

OK, OK.

So they both fall in love with Francesca.

She invites them into her house where they're unpacking.

And it's just full of these rare antiques and art pieces.

We learned that her adoptive.

father, Dr.

McHale, has been hired to sort of curate this local museum in town.

While they're looking at all these artifacts, there's a painting that Wilby notices, which has a dog who looks exactly like Chiffon.

She gives this sort of explanation of the Borgia's family, and apparently there's some witchcraft in there, and this particular sheepdog is a very rare dog and maybe has some mystical elements to it, but they don't...

seem to notice or care about that story at all they just move on with their lives immediately from that like okay nope no big deal uh but they do all decide because uh will be as a big nerd uh they all decide to go to the museum uh to see all the actual artifacts that are already there that's being curated uh they get separated and will be on his own for a little bit and he runs into professor plumcott who i he has some sort of Passed with, he taught him science or something.

I can't remember what it was, but it didn't matter.

But he works at the museum is all we need to know.

Right.

He's the authority on the Borgias.

The Borgias family.

The Borgias family.

From Italy, I believe, right?

Yeah.

So Plumcott is Mr.

Exposition here.

Yes, exactly.

Who gives this really.

dark story about dark magic and sorcery and shapeshifting and lycanthropy like it's wild like the words that he's throwing at uh will be who's just sort of like okay old man you're cute love it good story i gotta go um on this this scene is really the lighting in this scene is is really awesome with the use of shadows and and darkness and it really gives that sense of gothic nature like a gothic haunted house yeah so yeah definitely a horror movie in these yeah i think even the music turns like it starts to use like an organ sort of music underneath a little bit and so it's a little bit haunted you know something sort of a foul is about to happen in fact it does so on its way out will be knocks over this table of jewelry because that's where you leave all the really priceless jewelry is just sitting on a table in the middle of a museum, just willy nilly.

It's just totally fine.

As they're cleaning up, he accidentally walks off with this ring that has fallen into the cuff of his jeans.

So back home while cleaning up, he discovers this ring and there's an inscription on the inside of it, which he reads aloud, which you're always supposed to do when you find a mysterious ring.

It's in Latin.

It says in Canis.

corpore transmuto uh he says that out loud and he puts the ring on which again you're always supposed to do in a movie otherwise you can't go on through life so this sort of sets into the motion this curse i guess is what you could call it uh of him transforming into chiffon the dog from next door which there's some plot holes here in which because the dog fully disappears from wherever it is and sort of becomes will be oh yeah yeah it's not will be becoming a dog no yeah chiffon disappears like fades into the ether yes and becomes will be it's it's wild but i have to say and maybe you'll disagree with me but it was giving very sort of, I was a teenage werewolf kind of vibes or Wolfman vibes a little bit when he starts to very first transform, like you just see tufts of hair a little bit, it goes white a little bit, but they do it very slowly at first.

And then all of a sudden he sort of ducks down to pick up the ring that he dropped and he comes back up and he's got a dog face fully.

And it's like, Oh, that's kind of cool.

Matt, you know, some, some trick of the trade here.

Well, yeah, I mean, Comparatively, the special effects to the Wolfman.

Right.

There is no compare.

Like the Wolfman was very like some trick photography.

Yeah.

In the Shaggy Dog, it's the actor ducks down behind a piece of furniture.

Yes.

You know, to hide him putting on some makeup real quick and then he comes back up and it's just like some less technical savviness but nonetheless effective, right?

It's just...

it fits the bill for a family movie like this is for sure it's very theatrical you could almost see like oh this could maybe be a stage play if like if you did it the way that they did it in the movie it was fairly simple but very effective yeah at the same time and just the close -ups of him too of his face in horror sometimes i was like oh okay i see what you're doing here yeah good job good job OK, so he turns into the dog and he realizes immediately that he needs to go see the professor.

He's like, oh, this he told me exactly what was going to happen.

So he goes to the professor who's not thrown for one second.

He's just like, hey, hey, professor.

He's a dog at this time.

He turns around.

Mind you.

Yeah.

Full on dog.

Full on dog.

And the professor's like, oh, yeah, I thought that might happen.

Or it was just like he just did not care at all.

useless advice he could ever give a child who should be frightened out of his mind.

It's wild.

He just basically says, well, you're cursed.

It'll probably come in and out.

You may not always be a dog, but you're not always going to be human.

This is so Disney.

The only way the curse can be broken is through a heroic act of selflessness.

So Disney.

I mean, where did this come from?

Yeah.

That's not a thing in any sort of way.

It's so just like, and I'm not knocking it, but it's just so basic.

It's so basic and easy.

But in that, it's really charming.

It's just like, well, you got to do this.

But we do see this through line in Disney.

going forward like like the perfect example of this is is beauty and the beast like the beast can never become human again unless he learns to fully love and so that's sort of the same kind of a curse basically that it has to be broken by true love's kiss or what have you and this is how they do it it's very disney yeah i i am always a fan of just hey if it works stick with it why not why why try to complicate a movie like the shaggy dog Honestly, you would paint yourself into a corner trying to come up with like lore and different rules.

It's like, no, X, Y, Z.

This is what you got to do.

We'll see you at the end of the movie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Yeah.

I mean, to be honest, though, it is perfectly set up.

It's a classic comedy, right?

Like it starts off with just some you immediately get sort of the danger in the beginning or like the whatever they have to figure out.

You get hijinks in the middle of it.

And they get thrown up in a tree.

And then the third act is they get out of the tree.

Like, it's just very, like, this is A, B, and C of a comedy.

And it's simple and doesn't have to be overly complicated.

Like you said, it's great.

And we never see Professor Plumcott again.

Ever again.

Ever again.

I thought he was going to be a main character.

Just like a mentor.

They clearly had him for one day of shooting.

And they were like, this is what we got, sir.

We have two pages of dialogue for you.

And you're out.

That's a wrap on Professor Plumcott.

Hey, Oscar nominee Professor Plumcott.

That's all they could afford.

They could afford 48 minutes.

And that's what they got.

All right.

So Moochie, or not Moochie, but Wilby takes this to heart and he heads home where there's this wonderful scene of him going to bed.

He shares a bedroom with his brother, Moochie.

There's this just incredible scene of the dog getting ready for bed, like fully taking out pajamas from the drawer, brushing his teeth, putting on the pajamas, using the toilet and flushing it.

It's so good.

I loved this scene so much.

I thought it doesn't get better than this, but it does get better.

But it's such a perfect scene.

And that's all Sammy, the dog.

It's incredible.

It's really incredible.

Yeah.

And I mean, I need a sheepdog in pajamas in my life because it's the cutest thing in the entire world.

And I read that they took a bunch of publicity photos of the dog in different costumes that they never used in the movie.

Like the dog wearing a bonnet and curled up in bed.

So good.

It's beautiful.

It's perfect comedy.

I love it.

And I don't know.

really interested in seeing the 2006 remake because I want to see how they approach the story and what's the level of CGI, which I just assume is part of the overall product.

Because like, I don't know, without seeing the Tim Allen movie, if you're not using a real animal in these scenes, why do I care?

as as gold as the story is why we're still talking about this movie yeah i think is because of the dog it's so charming right you can't you can't replicate it's just yeah it's it's wonderful yeah this this scene alone i think wins wins me over for the shaggy dog is him getting ready for bed as in as as the dog it's just it's wonderful i i have to imagine audiences were howling no pun intended at this scene back in 1959 booting and hollering because this had never i mean this was a wild idea first of all for for a movie but like clearly never before Has this been attempted before?

You know, it's just wonderful.

It's magic.

It's magic.

It's absolute magic.

Yeah.

Movie magic.

That's it.

And it's specifically Disney magic, too, I have to say.

Like, it's very Disney.

And they took a big swing and they hit it out of the park, I thought, with this movie, with all these special effects.

Okay.

So the dog goes to bed, wakes up, still a dog, where Moochie then discovers that his brother is now a dog.

He doesn't.

seem too plussed by it he's just like oh cool you're a dog and he like refalls in love with his brother it's very adorable actually that he finally can relate to his brother in a different way uh because they are still brothers but he like loves this dog so much it's it's really endearing to the point of almost forgetting that his brother is the dog like Me and Ellen were screaming, Moochie, you can't just put a collar and a leash on your brother.

You can't.

Yeah.

There's a point where Moochie is a little delusional and thinks that the dog is the dog and his brother is like just gone out of his life.

Yeah.

He's all in.

He's all in on the dog.

For sure.

So as they're sort of bonding, I guess, as now brother and dog, they remember suddenly how much they're.

Dad hates dogs.

And then they have to work together to hide Wilby's curse.

There is some gun violence in this movie now.

Oh, yeah.

Hell yeah, brother.

Dad's got a shotgun.

You best look out.

Blammo.

It comes out of nowhere.

It's just wild that he has a shotgun in the whole closet.

But he hates dogs so much, apparently, that when he sees this dog, his first instinct is to get a gun and shoot blindly into the neighborhood at it.

It's low -key unhinged.

Like, what if your neighbor just shot your dog?

Because your dog went into their yard.

That's what we're talking about here.

He had ero Fs to give.

He just shot.

the dog not a good shot either because he did nowhere near the dog it was oh oh boy oh boy okay so We then spend a majority of the movie.

I won't go into every single detail.

Watch it for yourself.

But with these dog to human hijinks, it's actually really great.

The hiding from the dog, hiding from the dad that he is a dog, trying to convince people of this new spy subplot that we hear about later on in the movie.

There's some great scenes with the dog speaking out loud to this policeman.

It's kind of a through line in the movie just for a comic's sake and convincing the policeman that he's a little bit insane.

It's great.

We mentioned putting his pajamas on, brushing his teeth.

He's using telephones.

He's climbing in and out of houses.

It's just this wonderful physical comedy all done by a dog, which is great.

And you can tell that I guess I wasn't there, obviously.

It seems that they took great care of the dog too.

Like you never thought that the dog was in danger during this movie.

Yeah.

It seems like it was well done and the dog was very loving and loved as well.

So I will, I should say that out loud.

Yeah.

For, for listeners of Camp Kaiju and Patrick and Gays Do The D, I have some really great links that I found on the background of behind the scenes working with Sammy the dog.

I'll share with you.

I'll share them in Camp Kaiju show notes for this episode.

Wonderful.

Yeah, some really good insight.

Love it.

Love it.

Yeah, we get a filler scene with this country club dance where Buzz is trying to date both of the girls, Francesca and Allison, at the same time, but they both end up trying to win over Willoughby.

Classic.

Just a classic.

Classic.

They are throwing every gimmick they can at this movie for laughs, and it works, but not all of it was necessary, but it was still fun.

You know, what are you going to do?

So at one point in the movie, towards the end of the movie, finally, after all of this filler fun stuff in dog form, we'll be over here as Dr.

Andersey and this creepy guy who keeps coming over to their house plotting to steal these government secrets.

It's called like Experiment 23 or I can't remember.

Section 23.

Because I think the town, it seems to me like a government town almost.

Sure.

If you're well -to -do, you're probably working in this agency research lab that's nearby.

That was my understanding, maybe based on other movies and things.

Got it.

So there's clearly a top -secret facility within proximity of the town.

Yeah.

It's never fully explained, nor need it be, I guess.

All you need to know is that there are some spies in the town.

And that is enough to set alarms off.

So he tries to go and tell his dad, but Moochie actually tries to tell his dad at first and he brushes him off.

And so they decide, okay, it's time to loop in dad on the secret that I'm a dog.

To an interesting effect, Gays to the D listeners will appreciate this.

He basically has to come out to his father as a dog.

Yeah.

In this scene, you know what I mean?

And the dad's reaction is very classic.

what you might expect he says there's some line about like oh i thought i raised you better or something like that than to be a dog or whatever it's it's really interesting actually i don't know that they were necessarily trying to make that point or trying to make that parallel but i pulled it out for sure as somebody who is gay of like oh yeah this is a coming out story kind of him telling his dad that he's a dog i i i respect and appreciate that perspective so much i'd love to hear more about that Shapeshifting stories often are about sexuality.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Whatever category that might be.

But yeah, like I was examining this movie through a lens of either coming out or puberty or just anxiety about being an awkward teenager.

Sure.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'd love to hear more about your thoughts later on.

And that scene, though, when he is.

And I think, as you say, I think that's that's totally fair coming out to his father.

I mean, mind you, his father is willing to shoot dogs like it's not played like a serious drama.

Right.

But you could like the stakes could be that high.

Yeah.

But Fred McMurray, he's so he's reading his newspaper and it's just.

The comedy is so well played.

He's not looking at his dog son, who's right next to him, probably like in his periphery.

He's just reading his paper and he's like, yeah, son.

Oh, sure.

I'll, you know, I'll always be there for you.

He says something to the effect of like, you could tell me anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The moment happens where, you know, he like does a double take to his left and sees his dog son.

he doesn't fly off the handle right in fact he's willing to go to the feds with the spy intel yeah and and is willing to to tell everybody no my dog or sorry my son is a dog who told me this he doesn't back away from that story i found that like wow you're really sticking out for your son here despite how insane you are sounding now.

And they want to keep him for psychological tests and hilarity ensues.

But, but I, I read like, wow, I see a father, you know, kind of sticking up for his son after giving him so much crap throughout this entire movie.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, and part of that is, is like, there's the, you know, the adage of like, Sometimes just to convince somebody that something's okay, they need to know somebody who is gay or trans or whatever it is that you're trying to convince them of.

Once they know somebody, then they're more apt to be on board with it.

exactly what happens in this movie like once he realizes his son is a dog the thing he hates most he's suddenly okay with dogs you know it's like oh okay yeah interesting interesting well played well played is it i don't know if that was their intention but that's exactly what they did so they did do that and we noticed and we sure did it only helps the movie yeah absolutely absolutely uh okay so yeah as you said uh He tells him about the spy thing.

The dad's like all in.

He's on board with it to the to the point of like being examined by psychiatrists and everything.

We we get this climax at the end of the movie then.

So there's this high speed chase involving will be as the dog.

driving after the next door neighbor and the creepy guy who have now kidnapped the daughter.

We don't really know why they kidnap her, but it seems nefarious.

For some reason, they have to get rid of all traces that they were there or something.

I don't know exactly what the reason was, but they had to get rid of the girl for some reason.

Well, yeah.

I mean, I guess ostensibly she is his daughter, right?

Yeah.

But he doesn't seem to love her anymore.

Like, he seems very like, eh, if she dies, she dies, you know?

Yeah, he flips a switch pretty quick.

Very quickly.

Yeah.

It's a little creepy as well, I have to say, when they kidnap her.

Like, there's some violence in there that I was like, oh, I don't know if I'm okay with that.

Yeah.

I mean, the whole thing is dark when Bilby finds himself in trouble because he is Chiffon.

Yeah.

He inadvertently finds himself in the room where the spies are plotting.

But of course, as you could expect, the curse wears off in the next scene.

So the spies now just see a teenage kid in the room and they discuss like getting rid of him.

Yeah.

I'm like, this is dark.

Yeah.

I'm here for it.

It does go dark.

I like to take my family, my family, my quote unquote family entertainment.

I want to treat it seriously, and this is what would happen.

For sure.

For sure.

Okay, so there's a high -speed chase.

The police are chasing Wilby.

Wilby's chasing him.

Sometimes Wilby's chasing the police.

There's some really funny car antics here.

Very Car 54, where are you?

It's pretty funny.

So it all culminates on this boat where Francesca is thrown overboard from the boat into the water and will be still in dog form, dives into the water, rescuing her, pulling her onto shore, thus fulfilling his requirement as an act of selflessness to break the curse.

He turns back into a human form.

Chiffon is back.

Nobody believes that Willoughby, except for the dad, but he never, for some reason, decides not to tell people that he was a dog anymore, believes that Willoughby had anything to do with saving the day.

It all goes to the dog.

All the gratitude goes to the dog, goes to the dad, goes to Moochie.

But Willoughby, once again, is just left on the sidelines as an awkward teenager just trying to get through life.

Can we unpack this ending?

Like, honestly, how did this movie leave you feeling?

it's it was really unsatisfying actually for will be you know like justice for will be i was mad i'm still mad about this ending i know i know will be yeah it just because like again we had this great moment of father son and then father completely goes back to disregarding will be moochie all of a sudden is in all these like fame and fortune publicity photos because the news is all over this.

Hey, sir, we want to get a photo with you and your son.

And the son he picks is Moochie.

I'm like, that little...

dingbat like i was so mad because i hated moochie so much oh i thought he was cute sorry hates a strong word you can cut that out no i had strong feelings against moochie that's fair that's fair that's fair you know it's it sort of i mean i guess at the end of the day like it spoke to will be's character that he didn't really care about any of the like he just was on his own adventure i guess and he was you know just trying to get through the day basically as a dog and a kid and and And he was a hero, but he didn't need to be the hero, I guess.

And so it spoke to his character, but it was a little, I was like, is he being gaslit here?

Like, is he like, none of this ever happened.

Will we remember?

And it's never, you're just an average kid.

Don't say anything.

Everything's fine.

Yeah.

So what are you going to do?

It doesn't take away from my overall love of this movie.

Yeah.

It's just, I, again, I was, I was so invested.

Patrick, I just cared so much for Will B.

Yeah.

That I didn't like seeing him short -shifted like that.

It's fair.

It's fair.

Yeah.

I'll be interested to see whatever the people have to say about it.

Like, was it a good ending or should there have been a different ending?

Like, should he have gotten his sort of just rewards at the end of it?

Just like sitting with his dad.

As easy as that.

Anything.

Yeah.

A hug from his dad or something.

And mom, she disappears.

She fucking disappears.

Oscar nominee, Gene Hagen.

They only had her for a day.

She was a day player.

I also just real quick.

Yeah.

One of my favorite scenes.

It's such a strange scene, but it subverts expectations.

Yeah.

They're at a dinner table.

They're talking about going to this country club dance.

And mom suggests, Will B, why don't you ask a girl?

Take a girl.

And dad says, well, why?

Why does he have to do that?

He's too young to date, essentially.

I thought that was actually a really nice subversion of expectations because normally I'd feel like it would be the stern -headed father figure.

Interesting, yeah.

And the mom saying, oh, he's just shy, don't worry about it.

Yeah.

But it was mom really pressing the heteronormativity.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true.

That's interesting, yeah.

The dad was just like, I don't care if he doesn't need to do that.

Why?

For what?

Just stay here and polish your shotgun.

Like what else?

Why do you need a girl?

That's a really good point.

I like it.

Fair enough.

All right.

So, well, that was the plot of The Shaggy Dog.

As per usual, Vincent, what do you say we jump into a little quiz related to The Shaggy Dog?

And then we'll close out with some last minute thoughts and maybe some historical significance for Disney and horror and why this crosses over into both movies or into both genres.

All right.

So, listeners.

Yes.

This is our third episode of Magic and Monsters.

Yes, it is.

In round one, who framed Roger Rabbit, Patrick won our quiz show.

I sure did.

I sure did.

By a lot, I think, as well, in that first one.

You spanked me.

It was an embarrassing...

You know, it's because I went easy on you.

That's fair.

That's fair.

So me and Patrick, we're going to each ask each other three questions.

And we're going to tally the points at the end.

So at the end of Roger Rabbit, Patrick had three points.

I had 1 .5.

Because Patrick wrote a wonky question.

And we agreed that I'd get half a point.

That's right.

That's right.

I was very generous with that.

Thank you.

At the end of Morbius.

which is where we stand now.

Patrick, you have three points, and I have 3 .5.

Okay.

I did not do well in Morbius, apparently.

You didn't.

It was a joy to revisit that one.

Wonderful.

Wonderful.

Okay, I'm excited to hear what questions you have for me, because I'm excited about my questions for you.

Okay.

I'm nervous.

I don't think...

I think I went easy on you again, but...

You know, we're just having fun here.

We're not...

We're having a good time.

We're having a good time.

Not like we're playing for our immortal souls or anything like that.

No, we're playing for a beer maybe at some point.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

All right.

Who wants to go first?

Do you want me to ask you first or do you want to ask me first?

Why don't you go first?

Okay.

Are you ready for your first question, Vincent?

Hit me.

So, Chiffon isn't the only sheepdog in Disney's history.

There's another one.

prominently featured in which of these Disney movies?

Is it Beauty and the Beast, 101 Dalmatians, The Little Mermaid, or The Great Mouse Detective?

Yo, I can picture that dog in more than one of those movies.

You'd be wrong because it's only in one movie.

Oh, no.

Would it help if I gave you the name of the dog?

Well, what could help is I've given you, in my questions, I've given you three options.

Oh, okay.

So narrow it down to three?

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

We're going to go ahead and eliminate Beauty and the Beast.

That was one of the two.

Dang it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome.

So what movie?

Is this dog in?

So remind me now the three that I have.

You have 101 Dalmatians, The Little Mermaid, or The Great Mouse Detective.

101 Dalmatians I feel like is too obvious of a guess.

Okay.

Little Mermaid, and I've never seen The Great Mouse Detective.

Shame.

I'm going to say The Little Mermaid.

You are correct.

It is The Little Mermaid.

Max.

Max was the dog in The Little Mermaid.

That's right.

And an adorable dog.

I have not seen that movie enough.

I'm a fan.

No one has seen it enough.

It's a great movie.

It's a great movie.

All right.

4 .5 points for me.

Amazing.

All right.

Where's the first question?

Okay.

First question.

Sammy the dog who plays the shaggy dog.

Was so friendly on set, he earned himself a special nickname.

What was his nickname on set?

Oh, gosh.

Was it A, Makeup Eater?

B, Mr.

Frisky?

Oh.

Or C, Hammy Sammy?

Oh, they're all cute.

I'm going to go with...

I feel like Mr.

Frisky is a little too risque for the 1950s.

It's probably yet, though.

I'm going to go with makeup eater.

I feel like he was notorious for eating people, like licking people's makeup off their faces.

Ding, ding, ding.

You are correct.

Hey.

Amazing.

Yeah, that feels correct because I bet he was just like, was it because he was licking people's faces and they had to redo their makeup?

Yeah.

It was, yeah.

That's adorable.

I love that.

What's cuter than that?

Yeah, nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing is.

Turns out.

I love it.

All right.

All right.

Here you go.

You ready?

Number two.

Here we go.

So shape -shifting is actually a fairly common practice in Disney movie history.

In The Sword in the Stone, Merlin turns Arthur into three different animals during the movie.

Which of these animals does Arthur not turn into in The Sword in the Stone?

Oh my gosh.

Is it?

Does he not turn into a fish?

A squirrel?

Or a fox?

Fish, squirrel, fox.

I've never seen this movie.

Oh, you're missing out, man.

It's a great movie.

Based on this description alone, I would agree.

I'm thinking about Disney movies.

We've seen squirrels before, so they might have just used their previous animation papers.

Sure, sure.

Fish or fox?

I'm going to say he does not.

turn into a fox you are correct he doesn't turn into a fox i almost went fish well done yeah no the fish is it's a great scene too he almost gets eaten by a bigger fish it's he learns lessons every time he turns into an animal it's great it's a great movie cool high recommend i know trust me i'm really soaking in my i'm really using my disney plus account these days um Yeah, I got a little kid and just kind of that nostalgia.

Yeah.

I'm kind of thinking about.

So Shaggy Dog's on that list for sure.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Okay, number two.

Yes.

After the Shaggy Dog established Fred McMurray as a friendly father figure, he was cast against type as a philandering corporate executive in this film, which won the Oscar for Best Picture of 1960.

Was it A?

Elmer Gantry, B, The Apartment, or C, The Hustler?

Oh, gosh.

Oh, man.

Oh, this is a tough one.

Okay, you stumped me on this one.

I want to say The Apartment, but that feels like an Alfred Hitchcock movie, and I can't remember if it is or not.

That's the only one that's really ringing in my head.

Oh, gosh.

Okay, I'm just going to say it.

I'm going to go with my gut.

Is it The Apartment?

Yeah, you got it.

Oh, okay.

For some reason, it was just sitting in my head.

I was like, it sounds right.

Okay.

Honestly, one of my top five favorite movies of all time.

Really?

Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

And Fred McMurray plays MacLaine's philandering boss.

And she has a relationship with him and he does her dirty.

And it's hilarious and heartbreaking.

Go see this movie.

It's beautiful.

Maybe that's why it was in my head, because I feel like you have talked about it before, but I clearly...

I had had it on the notes previously, but I deleted it quickly for the sake of the quiz.

Fair enough.

Let me read a quick anecdote that I love.

Yeah.

That I came across.

So, after The Apartment came out, Fred McMurray went to Disneyland with his daughters, and a woman approached him and said, Oh, Mr.

McMurray, I've enjoyed your movies throughout the years.

I saw The Apartment.

Last night.

How could you?

You spoiled the Disney image.

And she whacked him over the head with her purse and stormed away.

Well done.

Well done, ma 'am.

I love it.

I love it.

Hey, why not?

Why not?

That's beautiful.

Love that.

That's a great.

I love that.

Oh, too funny.

Okay.

All right.

Last question.

This is my favorite one that I've written out, and I hope you get it right.

Okay, let's see.

Good luck to you.

We've gotten both of them right so far, so here we go.

After the success of The Shaggy Dog, Disney started putting animals front and center in many live -action movies.

Which of these titles is not a Disney movie featuring an animal?

Are you ready?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, let's go.

Feeling good about this one.

Good.

Okay.

Is it Not My Zebra?

Is it Monkeys Go Home?

Or is it The Million Dollar Duck?

Which of these is not a Disney movie?

Which is not a Disney movie.

The other two are Disney movies.

Okay.

I got a little cocky here because I don't believe.

I don't believe any of those are Disney movies.

Two of them, in fact, are.

I expect you to say, you know, that darn cat or.

Oh, no, no.

Big Red.

I don't know.

That's a movie I've heard about.

No, no, no.

OK.

All right.

One more time.

We got a ebra.

We got a monkey and we got a duck.

So, yep.

Not my ebra.

Monkeys go home.

Or the Million Dollar Duck.

Not My Zebra.

Not My Zebra is not a Disney movie.

Oh, my God.

But it should be, shouldn't it?

It should be.

Nor is it a movie that I can think of.

I made it up.

But I felt like it was a better title than the other titles.

Wow.

Million Dollar Duck.

Million Dollar Duck and Monkeys Go Home.

They will all be featured on magic and monsters.

Yeah.

I want to be clear.

Disney didn't make all good comedies.

They just made a lot of companies.

Wow.

That's a tactic.

You just throw a bunch of crap at the wall.

That's correct.

That's correct.

And then you'll never, they'll stay in the vault forever.

Right?

Oh, man.

All right.

We're neck and neck here, man.

I got one more for you.

It's kind of a softball pitch.

So I think you got it.

But well, we'll see.

We'll see.

OK, I want you to test your first year Latin.

Oh, Lord.

That's like will be.

Yeah, that's right.

It's all kids learn Latin in their first year.

OK, again, I got it.

I just got to go off like I've never taken Latin.

Never.

Not a day.

I knew what this phrase was like I could.

piece it together with my rudimentary Spanish.

Okay.

Sure.

All right.

Yeah.

But maybe you can't.

Let's see.

Please translate in canis corpore transmuto.

Oh, that's that.

I'm going to give you three options.

That's the curse from the Borgias.

Yes.

Does in canis corpore transmuto translate to a into a dog's body?

I change B.

I am transformed by the dog's body.

Oh, Or C, I have transferred the body to the canal.

I do know what it's like to transfer a body to a canal, so I don't think it's that one.

Because I feel like if it is that one, I'm really going to be mad at myself.

Okay.

What was the first one again?

I feel like it was the first one, but I want to hear it again.

Into a dog's body I change, or I am transformed by the dog's body.

I feel like transformed was not a word that would have been used in Latin, so I think it's the first one.

We are all tied up, except I'm 0 .5 points more than you.

But hey, ace is for all of us.

That's great.

Our new score is 6 to 6 .5.

Well done, everybody.

Good job.

That was good.

That was fun.

I like that.

Well done, everybody.

Good job, Quiz Show.

Oh, yeah.

Lots of suspense there because I was shooting in the dark with a couple of those.

All right.

All right.

Let's get back into the episode, Vincent.

What do you say?

I say I transferred the body to the canal.

I transferred the body back to our regularly scheduled programming here with the Shaggy Dog.

So I wanted to talk a little bit before we sort of close things out here with some just sort of cultural.

significance, I guess, of this movie when it comes to Disney, and then also when it comes to horror movies as well.

And or are there significances when it comes to either of those topics?

For sure, I know that for Disney, yes, there are quite a few things.

As I mentioned before, this is their first foray into comedies.

They were just trying to compete with all these other comedies that were starting to come out in other studios.

And they, you know...

wanted to be on trend and so this is this is the movie they came out with uh and it was very on trend with disney as well they didn't sort of steer away from classic disney imagination and it just it opened the door as we said for so many more of these disney comedies it was a hit immediately uh after this came the love bug the parent trap the absent -minded professor it also spawned a few spinoffs the shaggy da which if you haven't seen that is definitely worth a watch it is next on my list good sir i cannot wait it's so exciting it's absurd it's absolutely absurd i hear the dog punches a man in the face it's it's gold it's really gold it jumps the shark immediately It's amazing.

It's great.

It's great.

And then also the return of the Shaggy Dog.

And then, as we said, there was a remake with Tim Allen in 2006, which is nowhere to be seen.

But what are you going to do?

As you said earlier, this was Fred McMurray's very first Disney film, and it just kicked.

kicked him into a whole new eitgeist of stardom, basically.

He played the Appetite Minded Professor, which as many people today now know, they remade that into the movie Flubber with Robin Williams.

That was the very first version of that movie.

I had forgotten that completely.

And in my mind, I keep mixing it up with the Nutty Professor.

which was not Disney.

I don't know.

That might have also been a Disney movie, The Nutty Professor, I think, but maybe under a different title.

I can't remember what it was, but remade by Eddie Murphy.

Right, right.

No, Jerry Lewis was in the 60s one.

Yeah, I think it might have been Disney.

I guess I can't remember.

Wow, yeah.

What a tangled web.

Yeah, for sure.

We also mentioned Annette Finicello, who was a huge Mickey Mouse breakout star at the time.

But this was the first time they ever put her on film.

This was sort of her screen test for being in movies.

And she knocked it out of the park, even though she had a very small part.

People fell in love with her all over again in this movie.

And so it just jump -started her career as well.

And she was in hundreds of movies, I feel like, after this.

Now, interestingly, this is sort of significant.

for Disney and for Gays Do The D listeners, well, all listeners, but specifically for Gays Do The D.

So, Tommy Kirk, who played Wilby, the main character in the movie, in the mid -1960s, it was discovered that he was in a gay relationship.

He wasn't out at the time, but he was outed, unfortunately.

And Disney, this is, you know, dark days for Disney, did not renew his contract after figuring this out, as all studios just sort of stayed away from him.

And all people who were sort of outed or out at the time, just, it was not okay back then.

It wasn't, I don't believe it was illegal at the time, but it was, you know, very frowned upon to be out and gay.

His last film with Disney was called Monkey's Uncle in 1965, strangely, not strangely, I guess, but with Annette Funicello, because she was in everything back then.

He did continue to act, but not in big budget movies.

He was in a string of very low budget, but basically like college level films.

He eventually retired from acting in the 1970s, and he owned his own business, living out as well.

Once he was outed, he didn't hide it or go back in the closet.

He actually lived his life fully and out.

And interestingly, in 2006, he was named a Disney legend by Disney, and he attended the ceremony in person.

He was deeply moved by the honor, and it sounds like...

It was sort of Disney's way of apologizing to him, and he accepted it and moved on with his life.

Never again in a Disney movie, he stopped acting altogether, but he continued to live his life fully and out as now a Disney legend.

So not a great ending with his acting career, but it's sort of important to know that it happened.

And a lot of people sort of, from what I read, sort of attributed...

tommy kirk to the horrors that were happening back then uh to people who who were othered by hollywood and they were shunned and blacklisted that he didn't shy away from it he just sort of said okay this is what it is i'm not gonna let it get me down uh and and unfortunately it did end his film career though so a little significance there for you yeah no thank you for sharing um i did not know that when i watched the movie does does knowing that about tommy kirk When you watch The Shaggy Dog, does it inform your viewing in any way?

That's an interesting question.

It's hard to sort of separate them now once I learned that.

And maybe that's why I started to watch it with a different lens of like, wow, imagine what he was going through in his head at this time.

Hard to know if he was, you know, in a relationship with, you know, another kid his age at the time.

Who can say?

Because I believe he was like 16, 17 at the time of The Shaggy Dog.

But it did make me wonder if he made the connection of what we were talking about earlier, of coming out as a dog, of being this other side of you that you have to hide from people, you know what I mean?

And share it with very select people.

So it made me feel very passionately for him.

And it made me, like I said, wonder what...

what must he have been going through at this time it must have been really hard for him you know and so that's what i pulled out of it when watching it this time so yeah it's interesting because on the surface it's it's more about a kid trying to be a teenager just any teenager right but now knowing what we know about him it's almost definitely about a kid coming out right right i think that's that's very well said yeah That's that's the distinction with this movie on the surface.

No, Disney's not making a movie about, you know, queer identity.

But yet you can't not acknowledge that aspect of it, too.

Yeah.

They're tangled now forever.

Yeah.

It makes me think about the 1950s in general.

It's just this is like the monster movie angle science fiction.

And there's just such an explosion of these types of movies dealing with teen angst because teens.

were a burgeoning subsect of of society obviously they're all the teenagers but like teen culture as we know it started in the 50s rebel without a cause all you know rock and roll like this was it and the movies reflected that anxiety about teens rebelling Against this very conservative time.

Cause we also think of the fifties as a very like, leave it to beaver clean cut, um, very conservative time.

Yeah.

And it was for older people.

It was for white people.

And then all people who came back from world war two, just like trying to repress their trauma of the war.

Fascinating psychology.

When you get into like, why was everything presented so perfectly?

And yet underneath, Everyone is dealing with a whole mess load of trauma from war, from constrained expectations.

And that's what the kids were rebelling against.

And I think you see this in the Shaggy Dog, which I'll call a werewolf movie, which was a, it wasn't a mainstream popular genre at the time.

Gothic horror, like werewolves had kind of died out in the 40s as a pictures.

So, by the 50s, they were purely B movies, drive -in audiences only.

And you had some memorable movies.

There's a movie called The Werewolf, which I would check out.

I was a teenage werewolf monster on the campus.

These are really campy, charming movies.

They're all on Tubi.

Go check them out.

But I see The Shaggy Dog as just one more werewolf movie catering to the teen crowd.

With the added complexity of the Fred McMurray character, who is that older...

probably a world war ii vet who's dealing with this this threat to his perfect world so that's yeah yeah i can read way more into the shaggy dog than most people and i yeah i love it when a movie makes me think about those things i love that that's so great to hear and yeah i love your point about the 1950s and the 60s uh about this wholesome attitude that they wanted everyone to see on screen for sure like you think of donna reed i love lucy all that mean like right but underneath there were horrific things happening in this country you know and all around the world absolutely and and imagine being a teenager at that time i mean there's there's every reason why these werewolf movies would have been made at this very specific time in history because people were just like looking for a way to identify and yeah if you can't identify as yourself let me be a monster then you know yeah yeah man oh we the psychology behind that is vast i imagine but you know uh I host a podcast all about it.

Yes, you do.

And Patrick, you are a great guest host for those of you listening.

Patrick's been a frequent guest host on Camp Kaiju for Magic Monsters and beyond.

You've been on some Godzilla episodes and we talked about 20 ,000 Leagues, but that was another crossover episode.

Yeah, so I love talking about this stuff with you.

Same.

Yeah, you add so much great insight.

I appreciate that.

Likewise for you.

I'm glad that we started doing these Magic and Monsters episodes because we realized that we like being on each other's podcast talking about things.

We're like, wait a minute, there's a crossover that we can just do together.

So we don't have to guest star.

We can just have our own sort of sideshow.

It's been such an interesting, it sounds like we're like wrapping up the entire series, but no, we're not.

It's been an interesting like foray into that, you know, a genre doesn't stand alone all the time.

It definitely crosses over into other territories because there's no, Nothing's necessarily original anymore, right?

We sort of take and dip into other categories to make a more complete story.

And I think that's what's interesting about these specific Disney monster movies that they have the yin and the yang of something that's really beautiful and magical and something that can be seen as grotesque, but throwing them at each other makes for a really fun movie watching.

And I'm glad that we're dissecting these films together.

Heck yeah.

On that note, I have to mention, I listened to your recent episode with Kale.

Is that his name?

Your Fab Five rated R moments.

Oh, yeah.

The most recent episode.

Yeah.

I loved it because I was in my car listening, saying, yes, The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Yes, to the Beauty and the Beast things.

Yes, to everything you guys talked about.

So that was a lot of fun.

That's awesome.

Hey, thanks.

Yeah, it's just fun to, like, Disney doesn't, isn't always the sugar -coated, you know, entity that people seem to think it is.

It's not just, you know, for little kids, for sure.

Because even the Shaggy Dog, I mean, it gets dark in the Shaggy Dog.

Yeah.

There's some moments where you're like, what?

Child murder is a second from happening.

Yeah, it's wild.

It's wild.

Oh, good times.

Well, what do you say we wrap things up, Vincent?

That was a fun episode to do.

I'm glad that we finally got around to doing this.

It's such a great, a classic movie.

And I'm proud to have presented it to you and to have convinced you that it is, in fact, a werewolf movie.

It is a werewolf movie.

I'm so glad I saw the Shaggy Dog.

I love Disney.

I'm not like a Disney nut, but, you know, you can't get away from it.

And as a lover of cinema, it's just.

Yeah.

Disney is such a unique special studio in the history and everything they've done for film.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's good stuff.

So thank you.

Do you want to know what we're going to do next?

Oh, do you have something?

I was just going to ask.

I was like, the ball's in your court, Vincent, for next time.

But do you have one already?

Should we tell everyone what we're going to do next?

We should because I need to shout out our friend of the podcast who helped us out on this huge, huge lift.

Oh, that's right.

I know exactly what you're going to talk about.

Okay, great.

I'm so excited about this.

I totally forgot about it.

Yeah.

So, Jeff, I know you're listening.

Thank you.

for letting us borrow your Blu -ray copy of The Watcher in the Woods.

I'm so excited.

I'm so excited to do this movie.

This is the movie that stars Betty Davis.

It's from 1979.

It's about a bunch of kids and a ghost, as far as I know.

Because guess what?

Nobody's seen this movie.

Jeff has.

But you talk about Disney burying things.

Oh, yeah.

They've discontinued production of physical copies.

This movie is not on streaming anywhere, let alone Disney Plus.

That's correct.

But its reputation is literally the scariest Disney movie of all time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm excited to dive into why Disney disappeared this movie as well, because like fully disappeared it.

Like why?

Why?

It just, it baffles me.

Yeah.

We're going to get into it.

We're going to figure it out.

So, okay, good.

I'm so excited about this.

Thank you so much, Jeff.

I cannot wait to watch this.

And it means that you and I have to watch it together because I, alas, do not have a Blu -ray player.

And so I'll be coming over to your house.

Wow.

I don't know how I feel about that.

I feel like, am I?

Just an artifact for having a Blu -ray player these days.

No, no.

They're very useful for this one specific instance.

Hard media people, physical copies.

This way, the corporate conglomerates cannot take away your movies.

You own them.

That's my soapbox.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Well, thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, Jeff.

And thank you to all of our Patreon listeners on Gaze to the D and all of the Patreon listeners from Camp Kaiju.

We love you.

Thank you for supporting us.

You make things like this happen.

So hopefully that's a good thing.

I don't know.

Thank you.

Please leave us a positive rating and review.

Yes.

It just helps grow our audience.

And we're very proud of our show.

So we'd love to share it with you all.

Thank you for that support.

You could check out our website, campkaijupodcast .com.

That info and all sorts of links will be in our show notes.

So check them out for more information.

And hit us up on Instagram.

I'm always down to talk about monster movies with...

basically anybody who reaches out.

So yeah.

And where are you on Instagram, Vincent?

Camp underscore Kaiju underscore podcast.

Amazing.

And for those listening on the Camp Kaiju side, if you want to find out more about Gaze of the D, you can go to gazeofthed .com.

You can shoot us a note at info at Gaze to the D or hit us up on our Instagram, gdtdpodcast.

All right.

Well, with that, I hope that you don't run into any spies and you don't turn into a dog this evening, Vincent.

Right.

I hope that you don't come across an old professor in a haunted house.

And I hope you don't put on the ring he gives you.

I always put on a ring.

If there's a ring in front of me.

Into the body that goes the canal.

into the canal goes the body there it is i dragged a body from a canal