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Welcome.

You're gonna love it.

Hey, you guys.

Some remarkable things are happening over at Zion Lab.

Now what is Zion Lab?

This is the online leading saints community where we are bringing the world together of latter day saints to talk about different topics, share insights, ask questions.

This is the gathering place.

So think of it as a think tank for Zion where we don't just create content through the Leading Saints podcast, but we also discuss content, share best practices and ideas.

And we had a live stream there all about delegation, but not just general delegation, delegation in the context of bishoprics and youth leaders.

And so I wanna share with you a portion of this, conversation where we talked about this give and take and the relationship between the bishopric, you know, obviously running the, the young men organization in their ward, but also with the young women's presidency and parents involved and advisors involved.

And how does this all get done and what are some frustrations that bishops are experiencing or everybody involved is experiencing, and how can we get through this to effectively delegate and, just make the youth program be such a blessing for the youth?

And so here's a part of that conversation.

If you want the full conversation, you can come over to Zyon Lab and listen to the entire conversation there.

So let's jump in.

Here we go.

I think one unspoken dynamic that happens with being Bishop is that you are like the figurehead of the ward.

Right?

And so if something's on fire or burns down, you know, metaphorically speaking, or a program doesn't work, or an activity falls flat, it's easy for bishops to see that as sort of a, a report card, right?

Like obviously you don't have it together.

Like we put it on us and that creates some more tension or some more angst when we're in the middle of it, when we are delegating, like, well, I could hand this off.

However and what if it doesn't work and youth are so important?

And, you know, then we go even more macro level of, like, what if this means they won't go on missions or if this means they won't marry a temple?

And so just that tension builds a lot more.

But any other thoughts?

Anybody else, raise your hand, wanna contribute?

There's a great conversation that I can't keep up with, which is fine in the chat.

So keep it going there, and there's great ways to contribute there.

And if anybody sees a great point jump off, feel free to raise your hand and share it.

So anybody else who just, again, not that you we're not not that you have the answer to it, but how would you articulate this more?

How are you feeling?

You know, I'm just reflecting kind of on my on my own questions a little bit and, as as we talk and wondering how much how much do we set a vision for people when we call them?

I think sometimes, and I I think I'm guilty of this, we focus on the to dos.

Hey, here's what you need.

You need to show up on this day, do these tasks, get this done, read the handbook.

But how much do you give people a sense of their vision and what they can do and give them permission?

And I don't know that I do that as much as I think that I do.

I think that I I'm doing that, but I think if you videotaped me, you probably find that I'm expecting people to do that and I don't ever or let my counselors, right, or teach my counselors.

This is how you need to extend the call.

Right?

So you have this not only just, hey, show up and do these tasks and, hey, help what's, you know, everybody pitch in, but, like, hey, you can have spiritual power in the work and don't limit yourself.

I don't know.

Those are just some of my my thoughts.

No.

That is, I think, important to mention of, like, what expectations are we setting?

Because maybe you extend a calling to, you know, a priest corpsman adviser and in the reminder, like, oh, cool.

That'll be fun to teach the priest, you know, once a month.

But in your mind, you're thinking, we need you here every Wednesday showing up helping plan activities.

Right?

And so sometimes we have to be you know, overemphasize the expectation and what this means, what we're actually asking you to do.

So, Sean.

Yeah.

I was just thinking about that comment and then thinking about something I'm trying right now.

And so with all the young men advisers that we do have, trying to implement what I've done well, hopefully, the savior has taught us to do, which is to meet people where they're at.

Mhmm.

And so for, you know, for example, like, if we're worried about someone or we're trying to help someone, like, it's usually they come in and they and they you just talk to them.

Like, when we've had a question about someone as a bishopric, like, oh, I wonder, like, why they are doing this thing or, you know, would they do this thing?

And we think we have an answer and then it's usually just like, well, let's let's just talk to them, right?

Like, we have to have their story.

And so because everyone has a story that's one of the biggest lessons I've learned as a bishop is that we just don't know until you just talk to them.

And so I'm trying to invite all of my young men advisors in just for a one on one like quick chat.

Hey, how are you doing?

How are things going?

Type thing.

And so I've done that so far with ONE and ONE didn't show up even to that meeting last night when I had it scheduled.

But I guess hopefully that can in addition to helping people understand what the expectations maybe are, right, the to dos, but what are you striving to be and become?

And how can I help you?

How can we help you?

And what's, like, the later on accountability?

Right?

Like, these I think there's value in meeting as a council as a group of all young men young men advisers, but I think there's great power to in an occasional check-in one on one ministering type effort.

And to be careful that that doesn't become micromanaging, but it's more of a ministering outreach to that person of like, hey, just how are you doing?

How are things going?

Because then you'll get further light knowledge that will inspire the hopefully the revelation that you can receive for that.

So that's something I'm at least starting to try to do with specifically young men advisors.

Yeah.

So what I'm hearing in this discussion is, so far, we're focused on that delegating when it comes to youth.

Right?

Your responsibility of focusing on the youth and which is more I think more appropriate in the handbook is the rising generation, right, which includes everybody from I was just born to I'm a young single adult.

Right?

But we do kinda hyperfocus on that those teenage years.

I'm just curious, like, yeah, delegation within those things is one thing, but we also have, you you know, I said we, but, you know, the bishops also have several other responsibilities happening outside of that.

And, you know, since this shift and change where the young men's presidency, was dissolved, the idea part of that idea was that, the elders quorum president and the relief society president would sort of take a new level of engagement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it.

And so how have you been going about delegating there?

What does that look like?

Or is that even I mean, sometimes those things fall off because maybe the consequence isn't as daunting when it's like, just the elders, you do your thing and at least their presence, you do your thing.

But I'm curious if anything comes to mind for people when with that delegating to elders quorum and delegating to relief society.

Sean, go ahead.

Sorry.

I feel like I'm talking a lot.

But I feel like our ward does has done really well at that, at least for the adults.

Like, I have our stellar elders quorum president and release study president, and I've gone through three or four each.

And in my time so far, and they've all been very incredible.

Something my stake president said when I was called was he says, as you read the handbook of your responsibilities, if it says bishop or counselors, it's not yours.

You delegate that.

Right?

Or bishop and or something else.

Right?

It it's not yours.

Only do what you can do as a bishop.

I've really tried to to do that the best I can.

And so anything adult related when I absolutely know it's not repentance, I'm just like elders corps, relief elders corps, relief society, and I give it to them, and they've just run with it.

They take a huge, huge load off as far as the adults go.

And so that's something I've always tried to live by was what my stake president said is do only what the bishop can do and, you know, work on that and do it the best that you can and delegate away everything else.

And, you know, if you do have a good elders quorum release study president, then that's easy.

If you don't, then it's kinda what I'm going with Young Men Advisors, you know, right, with the youth.

Yeah.

Bishop Ransom.

Alright.

Good deal.

Okay.

So a couple of things.

One, I think part of the reason that we focus, I do anyways, on the youth so much is that they most of my time is taken up with handling youth responsibilities.

So that's where I tend to prioritize my time and energy.

The members, a lot of times, we have a an amazing elders corpsman, Relief Society president in our ward, but they can only do what the members will let them do.

So I have members coming to me, and they're wanting to talk to me.

And I ask them, you know, as you do, have you talked to the study president about this?

Have you counseled with her before coming to be in?

Their face kind of tends to fall, and they're like, you don't wanna talk to me.

They think I don't have time for them, but I don't wanna talk to them.

So that may yeah.

Right?

So it's made it a challenge to even though I'm really happy to give them some time, but, really, that's where they should go first.

Right?

Or at least they should be going there primarily when that applies.

So I do, agree with what was said as well.

I'm kinda summarizing real fast, but with I've tried to pass off anything that I can that doesn't need to be done by me as the bishop.

I'm only two years two months in.

Sorry.

I'm two months in, so still learning the ropes a little bit.

But in general, I have found as long as I prioritize, like, youth interviews, even though I only have to do one a year, I do all the youth interviews right now because I wanna get to know the youth better.

Right?

So there's things that I'm doing intentionally to make sure that I am prioritizing them at whatever capacity I can.

But in general, my oldest quorum is happy to handle anything that that I pass them and same with Relief Society, they're stellar rock stars.

So that's made it really easy for us.

Yeah.

And, you know, this is interesting.

We kinda throw out the phrase, you know, the bishop handles repentance.

Right?

And that's sort of that's a blanket term for a lot of mechanics going on behind the scenes.

What I mean by that is, you know, what is repentance?

And and I think we would do ourselves a favor in all of our spare time to really dig into what is my role in the repentance process as a bishop, and I think there's a lot more even in that.

Right?

Because I remember as a time as bishop, we kinda felt like, okay.

This person's struggling with this thing, and it's kinda not gone away.

Like, there's still a thing.

They're still struggling or they're having a hard time getting past it.

So I need to meet personally with that individual as many times until that person just suddenly stops scheduling appointments with me.

And I guess we're good then.

Right?

Well, I think there's a more intentional approach there of you know, and this goes back.

I think Adam Washburn was asking a question about what are these spiritual dynamics that we can delegate.

And I think there's even a lot in that repentance, which can, you know, fill up your calendar where if it's a youth coming in, like, are your parents involved in this?

Do you feel comfortable having discussions about this with your your youth leader?

Right?

Or if the elders you know, an elder comes in and is struggling or a a sister, You know?

Tell me about your relationship with your elders' core president.

Is this something you feel open talking about where the bishop's still involved?

Obviously, his keys are still important in that repentance process.

However, those six, seven, eight appointments, those touch points could happen with that elders' quorum president.

Now, you know, me being an elders' quorum president and a former bishop, I'm completely comfortable with that, and I get that maybe some elders' quorum presidents wouldn't be.

However, it's something you could you know, nobody trained you per se how to have those conversations.

And so and, again, this would all be done under the agreement of the person, you know, that'd be open to that.

And, again, community is a big part of repentance and overcoming these things.

And so that's a interesting thing.

Sometimes we have these things.

Well, that's a bishop responsibility.

However, that's a lot that's going on there.

Right?

So what else comes to mind?

Anybody wanna add to that or maybe left a made a comment in the chat that would be appropriate?

Is your answer?

Yeah.

Can I share one more thing that has helped?

Because and we talked a little about this before with setting expectations when extending calls, but I found that I use a lot of positive reinforcement when members are doing something that's good that I need them to do in their calling.

If I have people showing up for youth night, and maybe I didn't know they were coming or maybe they were, but I always walk over, thank them for being there, tell them how important it is that we have good leadership supporting the youth, and I always go out of my way heavily, heavily, heavily to thank them.

And I get a lot of response usually over text.

Like, thanks so much for making me feel loved and important and special.

I get a lot of individual text that way because I spend so much time reinforcing the good behaviors they're doing to try to help them.

Next week, when you're kind of deciding, do I wanna go see a movie or do I wanna go youth night?

Then you'll go to youth night knowing how important your calling is doing that as an adviser.

Adam, did you A little change in topic.

I'm thinking about delegation and parents and youth.

I'll just throw this, this question out here.

I feel like over the years, maybe it was historical.

When I was a youth, I feel like maybe parents, you kind of delegated teaching the law of chastity to your bishop, right?

The bishop will teach you this, right?

I think a lot of parents kind of expect that's happening and don't realize that one with our lesson format and really with the youth teaching lessons, they're not getting those kind of lessons that maybe we got when we were kids.

And I think the expectation is that it's parents teaching this, but I don't think a lot of parents know that.

So I don't know, has anybody had any conversation with parents about, Hey, this is really your responsibility.

This is something I've been thinking about I need to do, but curious if anybody's had success or, you know, other topics as well, realizing like, we're not gonna, be start lined up in the manual.

It's come follow me.

Right?

It's come follow me every week for everybody.

And so if you want these special topics, like, parents really need to to dive in deep with their kids.

Yeah.

For sure.

I don't know.

Anybody anybody had any thoughts or experiences with that?

Greg, go ahead.

Yeah.

Our ward council's been addressing that to a degree, and we've actually used our teaching like, train the teacher to teach parents how to teach their families.

So not just teaching in class, but we're teaching the parents how to teach their kids about tough topics and as well as just regular come follow me because some of them, we think they've got it, but they need more hand holding.

And so we dedicate second hour sometimes to that, and that class is full with parents, grandparents on how to teach those topics.

But it also helps us to clear be very clear that they need to teach that.

It's not on the bishop or the ward to do that.

And just give a shout out to the last week, we did a Sunday school presidency livestream like this discussion, and we did talk about that as far as the Sunday school presidency's responsibilities, not just teaching at a church, but teaching in the home as well.

And so that's a great thing to delegate, buzzword of the day, delegate to your Sunday school presidency and say, hey.

You know, I'm noticing I'm getting a lot of quests, or I'm noticing maybe there's a learning deficit in the various homes of the youth.

Like, would you put together something that would help parents more effectively teach topics a, b, c?

Right?

So I think there's a lot you can do there.

Let's see.

Joe, go ahead.

I was just gonna say we've got so a couple of things tied to this that we've worked on.

So the first is the teacher council for parents that you just brought up.

We use that pretty religiously as awards since we started.

Our our Sunday school president has done a great job of making sure those happen.

And it just so happens that next week I forget if it's next week, two weeks, doesn't matter.

Coming soon, we're having a counselor come in from the area who's going to address those type of topics with the parents, how we're how to better teach those type of things in the home and address chastity and and that kind of stuff.

At the same time, some other inspiration that we had as a bishopric was to have a a meeting around those topics without addressing them, you know, boldly in front of the team in front of the kids anyway.

So I had the same inspiration, brother Washburn, that these type of conversations aren't happening as often as they should be and they need to happen.

So what we're doing as a as a ward is we're using or as a as a bishopric, we're doing a bishop's fireside, and we're taking the for strengths of youth for strength of youth booklet and just teaching on watching in god's light or walking in god's light and pointing them towards what it takes to do that from the FSY manual.

And we'll be touching on the subject of chastity, of of dress, of choosing your friends, of language, of that kind of stuff without specifically drawing it out and whatnot.

And then we're tying it to a tree of life activity and holding to the rod as well.

So it's something I've been needing to work on as a ward as well and we've those are the things that we're working on.

The teacher council for parents, there's not very many people that do it in my experience anyway.

We're the only one in our stake, and then the stake next to us, nobody's doing the teacher council for parents, but it's been a really effective tool.

We do it for one hour on Sunday night.

It's casual dress, and there are refreshments and nursery provided.

And we usually get decent attendance, and they can be a pretty pretty powerful meeting.

So Yeah.

And, you know, just that I love this model that we have, you know, in the context of Sunday school, these teacher council meetings or the parent teacher council meetings.

But imagine I I think this is part of delegation as far as, like, an old adage I always reiterate, like, never confuse an ability problem for a motivation problem.

But we our brains default to this motivation space of, like, oh, they're not showing up.

They're not doing it.

They must be unmotivated.

Right?

When in reality, a lot of them are thinking, I don't know how to do that.

I don't know how to show up, you know, on a Wednesday and and lead facilitate a youth activity or or I don't know I don't know how to teach a lesson or, you know, these types of things.

And I'm even thinking with the you know, I think of the the load like repentance.

Let's say, I think a lot of bishops, especially with youth, experience a high rate of appointments for repentance or it comes up a lot in that one to one.

What if you had a parent council meeting all about how do we facilitate repentance as a group?

Right?

Like, what should you be doing at home, or do we just sort of say, hey, Johnny.

You need to go meet with the bishop and not talk about it at home.

Right?

So I think you can use this council model in so many different ways to help enable whatever group it is or whatever problem it is to help them rise to that that level of that skill level.

Something as far as, you know, a lot of chastity and, I guess, just standards is with the youth, a kind of a successful, like, a, like, win that we had last year is when we do that annual for the strength of youth meeting with youth and parents.

We've had the youth just run and pretty much the entire thing.

So, like, our young woman's president would say something kind of at the beginning very briefly, then I might say something really brief at the end.

And everything in between was the youth talking about the topics in the first strength of youth.

And so they were the ones having an opportunity to say the words.

Right?

Oh, sex.

Right?

Pornography, masturbation.

Right?

They're actually saying these words themselves.

And I got we got feedback from, like, a mother that kid, and she was just very grateful that she said it was awesome to have the youth up there talking about those topics and not the adults sitting there in a big group talking about that.

And so, at least for her, it was a win.

I thought the the night overall was great, and so that's something we've always tried to do each year.

But it was good to get the, like, the youth up there saying the words, talking about those things, and maybe opening the door of, like, them hearing it from their peers and saying, hey.

I think I might go talk to my mom or dad about that or a church leader or or whoever.

Bishop Ransom, go ahead.

I was just gonna share something that I often talk to people about when I extend calls that when I especially the youth, when I was a president of probably the deacons quorum, might have been teachers quorum, But they continued to pull us in regularly every three weeks or so, and they would chastise us for not doing our callings over and over again.

For whatever reason, they just kept telling us you're not doing your calling.

And I remember feeling really bad about it as a young man.

I'm not doing my calling.

I'm terrible.

I'm not a good leader.

I don't know what I'm doing.

But I would go home for three days, and I'd feel bad.

And then I would just forget about it till they called us in three weeks later and did the same thing.

And I mentioned this because I try to encourage people if you don't know what you're doing or you're calling because I wasn't trained.

They just never told me what I was supposed to be doing.

Right?

And so I was just very confused on why I kept getting in trouble, but I didn't know to tell them.

I don't know what my calling entails.

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing as a president.

You need to teach me how to do it so I can do it, which is what I would respond with now.

Right?

But it's good for me as a bishop.

This memory came back to me of don't set people up for failure.

Make sure that they know what you need them to do.

Be specific.

If they're not doing it, talk to them about it.

Don't wait for them to fail for six months and then release them because you need somebody who will actually do what they're supposed to be doing.

Yeah.

Really good.

Anybody else wanna add to that?

I might jump in for a second.

I don't Yeah.

Go ahead.

See the hand raise button.

But Okay.

One of the things that I feel like I've noticed is and it this feels connected to me, but nobody's used this phrase.

There's the home centered and church supported.

And I think, technically, that has always been true, but I don't think that our organization as a church matched that in the past, perhaps.

And I've got a big question about, well, how much home centered is actually getting done?

So you look at what the church is delegating to the parents now, and it feels like more than it used to be.

And I missed out on that one last week where you had Sunday school.

But many years ago, I used to feel like Sunday school was not a very important calling.

But at least where I'm at now, I feel like if a Sunday school president was really nailing it, it can be a hugely impactful calling because of the teacher council and the parent councils.

Like, if they're actually doing all that, you actually have some influence on the home centered piece of it where people can actually connect with the savior and connect with their family in a way that they're making spiritual progress in their lives.

Love it.

Yeah.

And that's, again, kinda shifting.

Sometimes it's easy to get hyper focused on the ward specific responsibility of, like, are we doing the weekday youth activity?

You know?

How are the lessons going?

When we step back and say, well, what are some additional resources, or how can we better focus on what's happening in the home?

Because, again, can't mistake an ability problem for a motivation problem.

So it's like, well, maybe it's not that they're unmotivated.

Maybe it's that they don't know how to do that.

So let's get our Sunday school presidency involved or whatever we need to do to to help enable parents to or or homes households to, you know, do the things the home centered things.

Right?

Yeah.

Because one of the one of the things that my wife's young women's president right now, and she strives really hard to get the youth involved.

And she's got a class president who's doing a really good job now, and that works best when the parents are involved in that mentorship.

So the young women's president has influence and can do a lot.

But if that is reinforced by what the parents are teaching and what the parents are trying to help the kids do as well, it just magnifies the impacts, like, tenfold.

Yep.

But the parents don't know how to do that any more than the rest of us started out knowing how to do it until we practiced a little bit.

Yeah.

For sure.

Ricky, go ahead.

The same quote that you keep saying is is true for bishops also.

One day you're not bishop, you're everybody's neighbor, and the very next day you're bishop, and you're all of a sudden expected to know how to do everything.

And that's just not the case and it's hard.

It's really hard.

And there's not a lot of great training except for things like this that people and then you think, oh, I have to be a super bishop.

Right?

I have to be really great all of a sudden at every calling and they all have to run great and things like that.

And then there was this attitude for a while of, oh, delegate and let them fail.

You know, that they used to say, don't bring back up brownies, right?

So the activity, if you delegated a young woman to bring brownies and she didn't, well then there's no brownies.

I think that's not the right way either, but it's hard to be a Bishop.

And to speak to the thing earlier about the delegating to parents, one thing I did, which worked really, really well, and this was as kids were coming, turning 12, and they were gonna be getting temple recommended interviews.

I sent home a letter about a month before that said with a list of the temple recommended interviews.

And, it was, hey, we're gonna be asking these questions to your kids.

Please go over these questions with them and teach them everything you wanna know.

And then there was some highlights.

Usually kids don't know what this question means and usually kids don't know what that question means.

And it helped.

It absolutely changed those first interviews because at least with the parents who did sit down with them, it's hard because like I said, one day you're not Bishop and you're everybody's neighbor.

Then the next day, I mean, I remember when I was called, I had one neighbor that said, oh, now I have to stop being friends with you.

Almost as if I had seer stones and could see all everything into his life, all of a sudden.

I said, why?

And he says, oh, because now you're the bishop, you know everything.

I don't know anything, I'm still your neighbor and I don't know how to solve that, right?

Other than just jumping in and not being embarrassed as a bishop to not know everything and not be embarrassed in ward council to say, hey, this is a problem I don't know how to solve.

And to be kind of real, not not nitty gritty real.

Right?

But to be real about your experience also and real with your word.

I mean, I remember being real with my word saying, Hey, I don't I haven't done this before.

And now all of a sudden I have to do it.

And, yeah, just acknowledging that it's hard and that there's no really great there's lots of great stuff in the handbook, but there's nothing that teaches you all of a sudden all the nuances of social engineering and how to and then there's thing too, oh, I liked how the old bishop did it.

Now you're doing it different.

And and the same is true with welfare.

Right?

And Yeah.

All of those things.

Just acknowledging that it's hard.

That's great advice.

Great advice.

And as we wrap up here and, again, we don't have, like, a hard stop by any means, but, you can keep talking.

But what I want you to do is if there's a a bishop here in this virtual room who's just so overwhelmed and really stressed about this delegation principle and concept, what encouragement would you give them?

And you can either put it into the chat or you can put it into or you can unmute and or raise your hand and and share it that way.

But maybe sit on that for a minute.

What encouragement would you give to a different bishop who's struggling with this?

Because oftentimes, it's hard to give ourselves that encouragement.

Sean, go ahead.

So a couple things, but they kinda mesh together is it's the Lord's church, not ours, not yours.

He will take care of his children.

Right?

You can't get to everyone.

You can't get to everything.

You can't do all of those things the handbook says are yours or only yours.

You just can't.

And the Lord knows that.

It's his church, and there will be times where you focus on different things.

So give yourself grace within that and always know that it's the Lord's church and that he's got you.

And then secondly, I'd say too is that it's just messy.

Like mortality is messy And, like, this visual always comes to my mind of when you go to clean the church building and you're the one that has to go clean the windows, the of the front doors.

Like, you just can't get it right.

You just smear it even more, and it's just not great.

But the light still gets through.

You can still see through those windows.

And to me, that's the gospel.

That's mortality.

It's messy, but light gets through there.

Right?

Like, we see through a glass darkly, and we do our best with the light that we get, knowing that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers not only our sins and our mistakes, but the things that we just fail at or don't get to within our callings.

The Lord's got it covered.

And so I take great hope and peace within that as I strive to just do the best that I can, but knowing that it's gonna be messy.

I'm going to fail, but it's the lord's church.

He's got it.

The light gets through.

He'll take care of these people too.

Just to highlight kinda what Sean says, I I wrote a newsletter article.

This is a couple years ago, and it it's still true today of, like, you think about all the ways you're falling short or that your word's falling short.

And I can with full confidence, this isn't hyperbole, I can easily say you're doing enough.

You're absolutely doing enough.

Because I remember instance where when I was bishop, a Relief Society president came in, and, you know, we're just having our monthly, you know, interface there of of talking about things.

And she was really struggling with just how things were going and, you know, just frustrated that a lot of these things, people weren't showing up, people weren't following through, doing their thing.

And I said, you know, why are you nervous about this, activity not going well?

Well, if if it doesn't go well, nobody will wanna come.

And and why are you nervous that nobody will wanna come?

Well, if they don't wanna come, they won't make friends.

And and why are you nervous that they won't make friends?

Well, if they don't make friends, they they may not come to church.

And, oh, well, why are you nervous that they won't come to church?

Well, if they don't come to church, they won't, you know, get the ordinances and and renew their ordinances.

Well, why are you nervous about them not coming to to church and getting their ordinances?

Well, if they don't get their ordinances, then maybe they won't, you know, be saved and exhausted.

I'm like, woah.

At what point was it your job to make sure that they were saved?

That's always been Jesus Christ's job.

Right?

It's his role.

And so no matter how well or not well you're doing, you're always doing enough because he did everything that we need.

Right?

And so I hope you find encouragement in that that don't beat yourself up too much about these things.

And and it is okay to even look at your word council even though in your mind, like, I can think about 10 things that you should be doing better, 11 things you should be doing better, and 50 things you should be doing better.

But to just look at them and say, hey.

I just want you all to know you're doing enough.

And this weird paradox happens when you say that is people want to do more.

Right?

And, it's on the other end if we go to them and say, hey.

Just to remind you, you're not doing enough, they actually want to do less or they wanna disengage.

They wanna be released.

They want to go anywhere else, but that room.

But when you say actually grace is of Jesus Christ is good enough for you and you're doing enough, because he did everything, they'll find encouragement and want to reengage that way.

Now that we've reached the end of the episode, I quickly want to thank you for supporting the Leading Saints podcast.

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You can mark off your good turn daily and let's even call it ministering.

Okay.

Maybe not that far.

But seriously, thank you and help us share this content.

It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of heaven who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

When the declaration was made concerning the only true and living Church upon the face of the earth, We were immediately put in a position of loneliness, the loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away, and to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.