Hi guys, it's your I Do Part two celebrity mentor Jen Fessler, and today I am so excited because I get to share the mic with a legend an icon in reality TV.

She's in her I Do Part two era and I cannot wait to dive in with her today.

You guys know her from the Real Housewives of New York.

She's the author of Life on the Ramona Coaster.

It is Ramona Singer.

Hi, Jen, I am so excited.

I am so excited.

I so Ramona and I just for the listeners, we go back a little ways, right, we know each other for a bit.

Well.

I love the fact that you make these great comfortable shoes.

Yes, major, f major, thank you.

I actually got it right.

Yeah, I really want to get something right.

I know the name.

Okay, okay, we know that you get a lot right.

But you guys, I just quickly we want to just let you know, Ramona and our listeners.

I've been a fan for so many years.

It is and I know we've met before, but this is quite the thrill.

So you guys, let's let's talk to Romona about everything Part two.

But I hope we can just kind of start with Part one, okay, whatever you like to gym.

Okay, well, I would love to talk for the audience who doesn't know about you, know, your love and relationship backstory.

Can you tell us a little bit about how you and your ex husband Mario met, how long you guys were married.

I mean, so many people followed you on the show.

What a gorgeous couple.

But just tell us a little bit about how you guys met and how it all started.

All right, Well, let's say that was probably what I met him.

Let's say we were married in nineteen ninety two, so I met him in the late eighties, and that was when you could meet men.

Okay, I know today everyone has a problem meeting men.

Then you'd meet men like drop fruit, hanging fruit at the gym because no one was wearing that hair pod.

The vertical club.

The vertical club, hell, you've got effect.

Every boyfriend I had was in the vertical club.

And the wildest thing is wherever I went to i'd be an aspen a guy say me, you're from the vertical club, right, I've been trying to talk to you for the past like three months.

You never look at me.

And anyway, that's how I met my ex husband.

You met him at the vertical club?

Yes, but about how good am I?

Yeah?

Babe?

God?

But outside the vertical club.

So I'm at the hot restaurant called chowd Bella.

It was like kitchen, it was like the popular place.

And he was standing next to me and I see this good looking guy and he looks at me and he says, you work out at the vertical club, don't you.

I go, yeah, he goes, and you wear that little black G string with the green ruffle.

Everyone's wearing g strings then, but with like I had a little acid green ruffle, and at that caught his eye right my butt and then what he asked?

Well, we then we went out, but I had just broken up with the guy I was engaged with, and the whole date I was talking about the Ring, the Ring, the Ring.

Never talk about x's on your days.

I know that.

Now is the rule?

Why it worked?

No, it didn't because we broke up for a year.

Wait, you and Mario broke up for a year.

Yeah, and then I got engaged to somebody else, So I only went out on one date.

Hold on, so you went out with Mario?

Okay?

We had what?

Okay with Wow, we had we had one.

We had a date and and that was and then he was take me out that weekend, and it was a Saturday.

He was, I'm gonna call you.

I'm gonna take you on my boat, take a change of clothing, and blah blah blah blah blah.

So I'm waiting by the phone, and you know, we didn't have cell phones then, and it's like now eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock.

I go, you know what, that asshole is probably with some other girl.

You know, I'm calling him up.

And I called him up, but he says, oh, I'm not feeling well and I'm just calling bullsh myself to him.

And then a few days later he calls me on my answering machine and he says, Hey, it's Mario.

Call me.

And I'm like, you know what about Hey, it's Mario.

I'm starting to get to see you.

I'd like to see you again.

And his version was like that girl never called me to check up on me if I was sick or not.

So we never went out again, and I got engaged to somebody else, and I'd always see Mario at the gym and we'd flirt and he said we should go out.

I go, I can't go out with you.

I'm engaged and my fiance doesn't know you.

And then the day I broke up with my fiance and I moved back into my apartment, the phone rang, I go, who could be calling me?

No one knows i'm here.

I just found out i'm here.

And he said, it's Mario, and I think we should.

You know, I'd like to see what your status is.

And I go, funny, you should ask me.

I just broke off my engagement.

It's fine, let's go out.

Oh my god, I said, I'm not ready to go out of this story.

See, I'm sorry.

I have this whole thing about playing a little hard to get I kind of.

I mean, some people think don't play games.

But like the way you just describe this, like you were not and these I know you listeners if you watch a show not they were a gorgeous couple.

He's a tall, very handsome man.

Yeah.

People use a mistakeme as an older version of John Kennedy junior.

Oh, I can see that.

I can absolutely see that.

So but you like you were you remoaned him, you were not kissing his ass.

I love it.

But then we went out and I broke up with him again, really yeah, And then we got back together again and we got engaged and married in twenty two years, right yeah, and we had a beautiful marriage until it wasn't.

I would if I had to do it all over again, I would.

You said that to me.

You've said that to me, which I love, because I've made plenty of mistakes in my life and I think I would not enjoy doing them over again.

But they got me to where I am now, so you know, worth it sort of.

But anyway, okay, you guys were married twenty two years.

Tell us a little bit about when you knew it was time to actually, you know, pull the plug.

And well, I found out my ex was cheating on me with this horrible girl.

But when I remember going to my therapist and he said, you have to realize this is before I know he's having an affair, that he's having a midlife crisis.

And I started laughing.

She was, don't laugh.

This is a serious thing, and he was.

And most of my friends thought as soon as I found out he was cheating on me, I'd be so out the door, but I said, you know, you can't you can't really figure out what someone's going to do if you're not living in their shoes.

And I believed in marriage.

I believed in our relationship.

I believed he was going through something, and I believe maybe we can work through this.

And after one year of trying, I realized I couldn't make it work.

Because I don't know if someone gave me this advice, but I think the best advice is you never leave a situation, whether it's a friendship, a lover, a job, anything you're doing until you're absolutely sure, because you die.

I have to tell you that.

It's very interesting because they say that you know it's right to get divorced, when it just nothing matters.

It doesn't matter about the money.

You don't give a because divorce is hard.

You don't care about the money, not that you certainly care about the kids, but you just feel like, listen, this is something that I absolutely have to do.

It's such a trauma and I don't think I've ever shared with you, Ramona, but I actually was separated.

I also my husband also had an affair.

We were separated for like a year and a half, and like you, I was you know, I was able to forgive him.

I mean, we had this year and a half that was crazy, and I kind of made it up so to it like I.

Was, I know, I get a few flings on your side, Yes, definitely so so, but but you know, it's hard.

Divorce is a bit.

It's like losing your arm.

I felt like I was losing my arm.

Yeah, you know.

And when you're in a really good marriage after a while, it's like it's like a comfortable shoe, you know, it's just corrafortable and agree.

I have no family, you know, And I remember he went he was pushing for the divorce really and I still, you know, and it was just and then we tried to recommend it was it was tough.

It was the toughest thing, and I lost so much weight.

I remember visiting my daughter at college.

I wasn't telling her that he was having the affair then or anything, and she was, Mommy, what's wrong with you?

I was emaciated, and I said, I have to flu, you know, And I was covering for him.

Yeah.

Wow.

I mean, it's so funny because I didn't tell my kids either until they were I mean, I never sat them down and told them, but they kind of figured it out also because I went on Jersey and talked about it there.

But before, I mean, they knew before that.

But it's an interesting thing because I always wanted to protect them, you know, and they have a great dad.

He's wonderful and we're back together.

So anyway, now.

Now everyone was some good, really good advice.

It doesn't work well to hold onto anger on your ex.

I remember when I was going to a therapist.

I was convincing my daughter to make up with my ex husband because she went and forgive them.

And my therapist said, who are you.

No women do that.

They're thrilled when their kids don't want to talk to their spouse, like, oh no, she needs to have a relationship.

And you know, it just creates angst and anger and aggravation, and you know what, we're like best friends.

Now, you know.

It's so it's just everything you're saying resonates with me.

Again.

I mean, I Jeff and I ended up getting back together, but I was so I think part of it was because even when we were separated, like my daughter would call and you know, try to bad mouth him.

Daddy's doing this.

I was like, honey, you dialed the wrong number.

Don't call me to bad mouth Jeff Fessler.

Okay, he's the bad and I think that was so great for them, so I think it's very important.

Yeah, So, okay, I want to talk about something called gray divorce.

Have you heard of this?

No?

I really haven't, so please educate me.

Okay, I hadn't heard of it either until very recently.

Apparently couples are splitting up after long marriages.

So like Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban, right, they were together for like nineteen years, and of course, like everything else, they have to give a term to describe it or whatever saying to describe it.

And it's a great divorce when you have a long term marriage and you get divorced, like after around fifty So apparently it's on the rise.

And I don't know why that is.

Why would you think, well, your call, oh because they have gray hair?

You mean, I know, which I actually it's kind of offensive, right, Okay, don't because that actually happens a lot of people get divorced once the kids go to college, like you know, and that's actually what happened with my excuisband.

Once my daughter's going to college, people start re examining the relationship.

Do we have anything in common?

I actually I had dinner with this woman who's a therapist, said, this couple came in.

The man said, I'll stay married to you, but I want to be with other women.

And she didn't want to leave the marriage and leave her life.

And she says, okay, she accepted that.

So people, I think we're all living longer.

We're married longer.

So that's actually what Yeah, I mean, I've been reading about grade divorce and they say a lot.

They talk a lot about the fact.

That people there's sixties have hout.

People in their seventies are getting divorced together for thirty forty years correct, yep.

So they say that like this, our demographic over fifty is actually calling it quits more often, like baby boomers and older adults like are three times more likely to be divorced than they were in the nineteen nineties.

So I don't know.

It's a study by Bowling Green State University, and the trend of getting divorced after fifty has whatever been nicknamed gray divorce.

But because the kids are probably I would imagine the statistic that they're saying that kids are in college.

Yeah, and now people are you know, they're rethinking their life.

Okay, my kids are in college, they're taken care of.

Is this really what I want from my life?

I also thirty year.

People, I know people are lily like having affairs and they were like, well, I'm going to stay with him.

That was always or I heard like friends of mine who are whatever having an affair and the guy would say, I'm just waiting for the kids to be in college and then I'm gonna leave.

There was a lot of that.

Sure, lots of times it didn't happen, but yeah, I think it's I think it's interesting.

So what do you think is one thing that people don't anticipate about marriage?

Like, you know, you and Mario, at least as a viewer, you just looked like the perfect couple.

Now, we were very male in love, that we were already divorced, and during COVID all my girlfriends would save me.

Okay, you must have been making love to Mario.

You must have had sex with at least once, because our sexual energy was so intent.

I mean you could see it, you could touch it, right, which just our chemistry was great.

Right.

But I think you know what people don't realize in marriage?

That you know, a lot of times they get married for the site, sexual attraction or whatever it may be.

But it's really important.

You have to have the same goals and morals in life.

You have to think about money the same way.

You know, if someone's a big spender and you don't want to spend, that's going to be a problem.

You know, you have to have some similar philosophy with raising children.

You have to have common values.

If you don't have common values, it's gonna really you know.

I always say that because although it doesn't seem like it with you and Mario, but I feel like so often the spark that people talk about, right, that initial attraction and.

Sparks, it never went away.

If yeah, well in vary.

I mean, at least from what I know and the people I've spoke to you, that's very unusual.

My therapist told me that when first this is before you even do that unfair.

I questioned my marriage when my mother died, and she says, you know, I was only in my I think I was in my early for fifty cent maybe late forties, and that you're thinking about your life and your marriage because your mother died.

He thking about earlier she goes, tell me about your sex life.

Igo, We have a great sex life.

We make love like three four times in weekses, are you kidding me?

Just most couples.

I stop after two three years, I go, are you kidding me?

So all of a sudden, this because I love sex, I love making less, I said, Okay, I'm sticking with this guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, I honestly like I think that the part you when you were talking about having common values as well, that's so important.

Do you feel like you're the common values you had with Mario changed?

I mean, obviously the attraction, the physical attraction didn't.

But my ex husban I don't really talk about him much.

He first of all, he gets very depressed.

And when he gets depressed, he gets a bedridden and that's very difficult to handle and hard.

I'm a very positive person.

I look at the glasses half full, this is half empty.

So he had like clinical depression.

So I would have to always like I didn't know when he's coming through the door, is gonna be happy or sad, you know, And that was a lot of pressure on me, Like I had to just always keep him happy.

That was tough that, you know, And that happened in our later years of our marriage, not in the beginning.

It sounds like though even at the end it wasn't you.

You describe it at least as it really wasn't you, like you would have gone on like that, you know, no act.

And he wasn't happy with his career.

He never liked his career when we were he had his own company, and when he when I was first marriage, so I said, listen, if you don't like what you do, do something else.

And then his business was failing and he goes, look, all our friends are so successful, and you know, look at me.

And I said, so do something else.

He's like, I said, well, you know you like cars, so why don't you like buy old cars, refurbish them and and do it.

And he's like, well, I don't know how to do it.

We'll just figure it out, because that's what I read you, right, because well, I'm not like you.

I don't know how to reinvent myself.

So right, he just wanted to just pack his bags and move to Florida permanently.

And I go, I'm not moving to Florida perman This is.

Why when you're on the show.

Yeah, right, he wanted to just like just.

Didn't like doing the show.

By the way, he liked it in the beginning, and then he didn't like when I got all the attention.

You know, in the beginning, he'd be the one to take the photo because I never was like one to like photos.

I don't, you know, people get the world idea.

They Okay, I loved doing the show because number one, I had fun doing it.

I enjoyed doing it.

I was good at it, and I enjoyed making the money, and it was like something different for me.

Yes, what I did like, which is like kind of a paradox.

I didn't like the attention.

I didn't like being written up in the press.

I never wanted to sit at the front of the restaurant people come over to me and give me all that a duration.

I didn't like, Wow, are you guys?

I mean this made me uncomfortable, so made very I know.

You, guys, our listeners, if you're surprised to hear that, but I am very surprised to hear that because your personality, you're such an extrovert, and at least on the show, you were always at the center of everything you have.

You're certainly not a shrinking violence.

No, I'm very sorry.

People are everything to me, right, but I don't like strangers interrupting my conversation with you.

And I remember before people did selfies.

I remember going to the wine festival in Newport in Nantucket and these people come over.

Can I take a phone?

They go, I don't like to take it again, I don't like the funk.

Can we take it?

And then, thank God for selfies?

Just take a quick selfie or I'd be in a restaurant.

I'd be gracious to take one photo.

Then twenty people come over.

And I like my life apart me.

Even my ex husband said, you know, we have a life with the TV.

We have our life apart my friends.

Never changed.

I was never you know, I'm very consistent to who I am.

I looked at as a separate life and as a business and I didn't, you know, and some people like, I'll tell her right, she knows it, like jill' zarren, she would.

She didn't know how to divide the two her.

Her her social life was her her TV life.

She got to separate the two, right.

I had a total separation.

Yeah, yeah, my church.

And state like church and state.

Let's get back to the whole second part of your second right.

Okay, Well, first tell me what you learned about yourself going through divorce, because we are going to get to our part too.

But going through it, do you feel like you discovered things about yourself?

Did you find it in her strength?

Did you feel like.

It was very It was the toughest time of my life.

I remember like people would like write to me, how you're getting through this, and I say, you just take it one step at a time.

I would just make sure i'd wake up in the morning, put my sneakers on, put some you know, workout clothes on, and I go out and just take a walk, get out in that fresh air and just do something physical, because that's good for your mind.

I would I would meditate positive things.

I love this Polynesian Spa.

It's a tape and well I know what you call it now, a CD.

You can get on spot You can get it on Spotify.

Right, it's the sound of waves and music, no.

Words, let me write it down Polynesian spot No, it's incredible.

I love that.

Yeah.

Actually I use it a lot.

When my ex husband was very depressed.

My girlfriend's lay down light a candle and it would just help lighten me up because I'm a person where I take the energy from people.

That's why I like being social, That's why I like having friends.

I call it you're an mpath.

You're an mpath sort of like in other words, isn't that right?

Where you take somebody else's energy.

I don't know, I get energy.

I give them energy too.

I mean, my friend's like, what do you mean you can't come to this lunch?

What do you mean you can't come to the slide?

You bring the energy, but I bring the energy because they give me the energy to give them the energy, right, you know, right?

I mean my therapist say, well, who cares if your husband's depressed, just go to another room.

But no, he's sucking the energy out of me.

He's making me depress because he's depressed.

You know.

See, that was the sort of the opposite.

So I think Jeff and I we lost that spark, but we always had the other parts of our marriage, the parts that you were describing in terms of similar values and like we were just best friends.

It was always easy with him and it still is to this very natural.

Yes, it sounds like you guys were so attracted to each other, but there was that sort of chaos.

Well, he wanted to know as we wanted the same things in the beginning, you know, with the New York City, a beautiful apartment, the Southampton house, social actifications.

But then as he was nearing sixty, he really hated what he was doing and he wasn't feeling good about himself.

You know, you can't love someone unless you love yourself first.

You can't feel good about somebody else unless you feel good about himself.

He wasn't feeling good about himself, and he just wanted to escape and just move to Florida, right, And I'm like, I'm too young to pack it.

I save a lot of lot of bidlife crisis men have the uh, let's move to Florida thing for whatever reason.

But anyway, all right, what advice Ramona, would you give to someone listening who is just like in the thick of it, in the hard part of divorce, is there anything that you could.

Get it over as fast as you can?

I know I actually had to give my ex husband more money than I should have, but I didn't give a shit because you know, so what's an extra half a million million?

You know it sounds.

Your mental health is most important, because if you drag it out and fight.

I mean, I remember his mother gives me some really gorgeous, gorgeous Buccilotti jewelry, and all of a sudden he wanted it all back again.

And my doors said, who cares about the jewelry?

I don't just just give it?

But who would ask for that back?

Oh?

He was just crazy.

So the point is you just have to just just end it fast.

It's like cut off the band aid, you know, because it can you know, otherwise it can go on for years and months, and the lawyers just make all the money.

So you're better off just cutting it and making a quick settlement and just move I mean, once we decided to get divorced, we got divorced in thirty days.

Come on, yeah, thirty days.

Wow, you guys really didn't you had?

We just wanted to move on.

We want to waste the money, spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on the line.

I just split everything up so quickly.

No prenup, I assume no, no, right, how did you do that?

Well?

Listen, I gave up the building.

He sold the building for a million and a half dollars.

I was supposed to get half of that, but I gave it up a lot of money to give up.

I find more money in his checking it in his savings than I did, because I paid all cash for the house in the Hamptons and paid up the mortgage.

But he still was just don't out.

I just said, I don't care, I don't care.

You got to move on.

You have to move on.

I think it's great advice.

I don't know how many of our listeners will take it, because his money is a thing.

But yeah, well, you know, as women, we should always have some kind of business on the side.

I mean, I always tell my daughter.

My mother taught me, you know what, you can marry someone who is just okay, or someone richly.

If you make your own money, you can marry just some one who's okay.

My grandmother, you said it, I'll be independent because back in her day, you know, she all they did was not all they did.

It was a lot, but they raised the kids.

Dinner on the table.

She used to say, a meat, potato, and vegetable, how to be on the table by the time he got home the cleaning.

And she was such a brilliant woman, my grandmother, but she didn't have means, you know.

And I think that that is the advice that I give my daughter as well.

You have to have some independence, whatever it is, and then look at you differently.

And that's what I want told me because my mother was abused physically and mentally my dad.

I go, why are you with him?

Because I don't you know, I had you.

I never went to college.

I had you when I was nineteen.

And what am I gonna do?

There was no domestic aview centers.

He threatened to quit his job, he threatened to killer, he threatened all these Just promise me, get your education, make your own money.

God forbid.

Your marriage doesn't work out, you have the means to leave.

You have financial secure A lot of them don't have that.

The men control all the money.

You can't let the man control of the money.

I have to have money in your own account.

Yes, you know, their destitute without the guy.

And that is a bad place to be because then the man can take psychologically, takes advantage of you.

If he knows that you're you're that you're you're in control of yourself financially a little bit.

He's not going to be so quick to do nasty things to you.

You know though i's psychologically I see sometimes all men are like that.

No, of course not, but I see sometimes friends of mine who are going through divorce, who have been through divorce, and the men are like, you're going to if you don't agree to everything I say right now, I'm going to leave you with nothing, Like this is what it's going to be.

I'm going to divide it up.

And if you don't want to go along with me, and you want to try to get a lawyer and do your whole, and I always say like, no, no, no, no, Like he's not God.

There's something called the law, right and there's going You're not going to end up with nothing just because he is telling you that you are.

So I mean, you know, I hate the idea that I know a lot of women, a lot of friends of mine who were just so scared and agreed to things maybe they wouldn't have if they hadn't had that fear.

They're absolutely right, right, So you know, we both experienced in fidelity.

But was it hard for you after that, after Mario hadn't been faithful to trust guys to get out there and start dating, Like, are you overly cautious now?

Is it hard for you still to.

Try when we first when we first got divorced, I really was.

I also say to women, you have to have a powerhouse of friends.

And I my girlfriend said, I can't believe all these women who are married or inviting you to their house.

I got divorced and a woman would invite me to their house with her husband, and my friends just rallied around me, my fifty girlfriends, and they did with their husbands, and I would see them every weekend, and sometimes both people, ten people, ten people invite me to dinner.

Go guess what I'm having all twenty of you to my house for dinner.

And then I hung out a lot with my gay friends and developed more gay friends because at that point I didn't want to be with a man because I didn't want him to try to kiss me or touch me.

And I felt very safe with male men that were gays because they would give me that you know, attention that we like from a man, but they're not going to do anything.

And I just kind of buried myself with close friends.

And then after two years I started, you know, well, actually I did date a little bit in between I did.

I Actually I met this one man right away that actually forced me getting away from Mario, because Mario would always kind of get me back in.

And I remember one time he came knocking.

He had been away for a few months, and he knocked at the door, Honey, I'm home, just like that, Honey, I'm home like what, like in a normal voice, and I'm getting ready to go on a first date with the guy who I fell mad in love with.

But unfortunately he died eight months later.

But he helped me get out of my marriage.

He signed a three million dollar more Coast signed a three million dollar mortgage for me, which enabled me to keep both homes, the Southampton house and the New York City apartment.

So thank you was an how did you meet him?

A setup?

Set up, and he was like, you know what you got to get out of this divorce?

While I said, you know, he said, he's going to stay in this apartment until I leave.

Oh, because that's what he was doing.

Always do a global settlement, Ladies don't do bit fractured because oh, well, let's just sell the apartment first and they'll figure everything else at first out later.

No, no, it has to be a global settlement.

I never heard that term.

When you well, a global settlement everything you sell everything, right, you know, your your keyos, your investments, your homes, your properties, whatever it may be.

Oh, everything has to be done at one time.

He won like just sell the apartment first.

He was so anxious to sell something and have money, you know.

Wo right, So point is this man signed for this, and I mean, obviously I was paying for I didn't need him to sign it.

But I didn't really show it enough, even though you know, unfortunately you could have millions in the bank, but if you're not showing huge money and earnings, they're not going to get that right, right.

So that really saved me and got me away from Mari and broke the cycle.

Wow, And you felt like in terms of intimacy, it sounds like this guy was such a gem.

And because Marie and I are such a strong attraction, you have no idea.

We just couldn't stay away from each other.

We'd go away, come back, go away, come back.

It was like a vicious cycle that wasn't healthy for me, and this man was I think he was really sent from God and or no for my angel I have an angel above it who really watches over me and pulled me away from that horrible cycle.

And that's what broke my cycle and got me divorce.

I met him like in April, and I was divorced by by the end.

First name Mark, shout out Mark.

Yeah, I love Mark.

Yeah, I'm sorry that you lost him, all right.

So so then after that, yeah, I met and I was set with another guy that I went at with for a few months, but then he wanted me to have a baby.

God.

He wanted to surrogate the hell, and I said, my daughter just went to college.

There's no way how much work a child is.

I am not having a baby.

So we broke up.

And then my girlfriend said, listen, what are you do when you were married for over twenty years?

You had two boyfriends back to back.

I have some fun.

So then I had two relationships with men that were basically twenty years younger than make nice.

Yeah it was fun.

And so okay, And I know you said at the beginning of this you enjoy sex.

You like sex, which, by the way, ps everyone out there listening, that doesn't go away just because you get older.

I hate that shit.

I want people to see that I can't say that's the same for me, but you know, I'm a little jealous.

Really, Yeah, look at how you're looking at me.

Do you want to have sex with me?

I going down the living pod, I did very flirtatiously.

Wait, Ramona, I can't believe that is it?

Just is it?

Can I you don't have to answer this, but I mean, for me, not as much.

And I think a lot of that is the hormones.

Well, okay, I've always had a very high sex drive, and then lately I've done working with a doctor and he's giving me tostosterone and estrogen, right, And I don't think that's an increase the pellets, yeah, the pellets, yeah, but I don't think it increased my sex drive.

I did it more for like you know, when you get older, women get like a vaginal dryness, yes, and your your walls kind of course, and an intercourse can be painful us.

So I kind of did it for that, right, and just to be more helps having that testosterone, right, Yeah, I mean I can sleep through the night.

Yeah, he's more energy, but I already had a lot of energy.

Yes, I already had the high sex drive.

So basically it makes me sleep through the night.

It's like a easier sex, not as pain all of that, right, because I used to do the other thing.

It's called the Mona Lisa.

It's a laser they put in vaginally how rejuvenate your because laser is the best thing.

I mean.

One of the reason why I look good is I go to lazy sob and hold on.

I write it down.

Hold on, I'm getting a lot too.

And oh six, oh lady, lay write.

It down the umber room today do you think, Yeah, you have to call him for me.

Yeah, get me in today.

I'll get you in.

Okay, Okay, So he does like clear and brilliance.

So I do it every four months, three times a year, and it makes sure actually builds college and makes your poor smaller and it gives you.

Just so listeners, You guys know, I'm staring at this woman.

And of course I, Ramon, I see you.

Obviously i've met we've met before on social media.

But you always assume with social media that there's some kind of a filter.

And I don't use filters.

I don't even know how to use it.

Okay, So and Ramona, guys, I'm not getting paid for this.

You look un thank you believable.

I mean, I cannot is that where that forty five year old tried to pick me up the other day?

Okay, well, here's forty and he thought I was forty five.

I always trying to pick him up for my daughter, who's thirty.

He's forty and he goes, what what I thought you were forty five?

It's true, it's on.

It's unbelievable.

So when we're off air, you're gonna have to make a list for me of every single thing that you do.

All right, so you know, tell us where though now?

And I think you had didn't you have a boyfriend for a while.

I don't know exactly, but I feel like I really talk about my boys and let's not talk about now.

But I like relationships.

I one on one person.

I don't like random sex.

Okay, that's not who I am.

I'd rather use my hand, right pair enough, Yeah, there are my likes relationships.

I'm into relationships.

Okay.

So where do you find quality men.

In non dating apps?

That's for sure?

Really?

And not with matchmakers, that's for sure.

Why I just meet them out socially?

Really, like what spots in New York?

Pardon?

Like?

What kind of spots do you go to in New York?

Where would you tell our New York listeners to go?

Well, I mean where to go?

It's just any you know.

Okay.

The important thing is number one, you got to put your phone away.

Okay, if you're in a restaurant or wherever you are a party, you can't have your phone looking at your phone.

I who's going to talk to you looking at a phone?

Okay?

Agreed?

You have to make eye contact, you see.

Just walk into a room and smile.

Okay, Look if I walk into a room.

I'm like this or welcome room like this, and on your phone with your head and your phone.

Oh are you gonna talk to?

Who?

You gonna look at?

Right?

You make eye contact?

And then when you go to a restaurant with a girlfriend, don't go out with six girls or five girls.

That's like a pack.

No guys going to approach you as a pack.

Okay, they're too intimidated.

Yep.

Okay, So you got with one girl and then you sit at the bar and you order an appetizer and a drink, and you know, and you make eye contact.

I mean, I advise girls get there earlier, get their twenty minutes earlier.

Oh my girlfriends say, you can sit so long right next to you the bar.

Love that, yep.

Yeah, and just just beout the vibe, just openness and just make a comment like the way I got these other guys talking to me at this party.

They're all tall.

I said, I'm gonna guess you're height.

I think you're six flog goes.

Oh my god, you're right to go and your six fike goes, You're right.

And that's sorted a whole conversation.

You just try to pick something from the air that's just you know, is natural.

Love it like we do on reality TV.

Like we do on reality everything out in right reality TV is natural.

So anyway, so what about a first date?

So now you've hooked the guy and he asks you out, how do you get it?

What do you think in terms of like if you ever First of all, I can't imagine a guy ever not asking you out on a second date.

I don't know if that's ever happened to you.

But although you said Mario first, I don't know.

But how do you hook them on the first date if you're interested?

Obviously?

Well, I just think, well, first of all, I think with women, you can't put press when you're going out on a date.

Don't look at it as a date.

Okay, look at you're going out to meet someone to have a good time.

Yep, you need to be relaxed.

Okay, you have to be relaxed, and whether you hit it off or not, maybe he can become a friend, maybe he knows someone.

So just go out with a very natural I feeling that you just want to get to know somebody.

I say that to everyone all the time.

I actually, by the way, I ran a dating service a million years ago as the director.

I remember it's just lunch.

Oh yes, yeah, I fixed up professionals on mondays.

Yes that's a good I know I was director for a while.

But I say this all all the time, especially like with the apps.

If people are not you and not going out and meeting people that way and they want to do the apps, do not look at it like it's gonna Oh this is it.

This is so important.

I'm gonna go meet this guy, and there has to be a You're not going You're probably not going to it's probably not going to happen.

This is probably not your husband.

So you go out just to have a good time.

You're meeting someone new, you're shooting.

Maybe he knows someone, maybe you or not occasionally whatever, maybe there is a spark.

But like, it's not worthless if you don't love each other, if there's not attraction, right, you're at all averages.

It's a little average.

I mean I was in sales.

Okay, the more people you call, the more the more people come in for the appointment, the more people get the appointment, the more people would write an order for your company.

It's a law of averages.

Okay, you're gonna have to give us a lead.

One place in New York, though, because I know that my listeners are gonna want to know where to go.

Just one.

It's just just go in your.

Like, are you right?

But do you go?

Do you sign up for classes?

Are you doing yacht clubs?

I mean anything?

No, I want to do golf in tennis, okay, do you meet guys that way?

Tennis not so much, but golf, Yes, you can meet men in golf.

Golf is good.

Okay, I say, girls get out there and just take lessons with the pro and you know, because men are out there.

But there were places in New York.

I remember back in the day like you used to go to Beacha.

Remember beach A.

Yeah, I sit at the bar there.

Well, my girlfriends go to Avra a lot.

Ava is a big place, has a lot of locations, okay, and it's you know they have big bars.

Yes, Ava by Rockefeller Center.

You have Avro on sixtieth Street.

Is Ava that just opened on uh I think tenth Avenue.

Great food you guys have.

So Avra is very social.

People like they're there to talk and mingle because they have huge bars.

Any place as a huge bar is a place to go to.

Remember the Agency bar, didn't you guys used to go to the Regency.

I still go there, you do.

And then you have Uptown if you like, you know, like I'm an Uptown girl.

You have the crowded bar at Ilios.

You know a lot of men go there.

I love it there.

Steak places are great to go to because theen like steak.

Okay, I just know what the listeners are gonna want to know.

So sorry I had to press you on that one.

So all right.

So have you ever Ramona been ghosted?

I can't even imagine that, but.

Oh that means when you.

Somebody just didn't call you back.

Oh, I don't think so.

Of course you don't think of course.

No, no, I know this one guy.

I mean actually I was thinking of this one guy recently.

He's a really fun guy, nice guy, and I know he said like, Okay, let's go to dinner Sunday night, and I go okay, And then I remember I said to Okay, so what time are we going to dinner?

And then he never answered back.

But then the next week he called me and then we're still we're still friendly.

We're just friends.

We go out as friends, not like you know, there's nothing romantic there.

So Gauys, I think that's so much about the fact because that you're fun like, I don't even even if the guy did'n't necessarily think that you're the one.

Of course he's gonna want to go out with you again, because it's sort of what you said.

You're just a positive force.

You're funny, you're fun you know, ask a lot of questions, you know, don't talk.

I mean I do talk a lot, but you have to ask the person with questions.

People love talking about themselves, so you know, ask them some questions, you know, and be interested in them and getting to know them and It's just a good tool to use, you know, in life, to get you know, to listen to people.

Agreed.

It's a huge I think that's huge, actually, and I think that that's underrated.

So, you know, on a first date or set, whatever it is, I think that's key because I think a lot of women, out of nervousness, maybe men too, will just start talking talking, talking about themselves as opposed to asking the questions and listening.

All right, let's talk a little bit about beautiful Avery.

What look at your face?

Just lit up?

I love my girls, I know.

I was so excited.

I'm leaving tomorrow for a wedding in Mexico.

She's a bridesmaid of this girl who actually stayed with me during COVID.

I took her in because her mom was stuck in New Jersey with her mother grandmother.

Her dad was stuck in San Diego couldn't like, you know, fly because of his health issues.

So she was all alone in this big apartment condo in Boca on the ocean, and I just took her in as my daughter, and she was with us for three months.

Love it.

So she's getting married.

Yeah, I'm gonna be with Avery and Avery has this fabulous business called Batch BAC.

I was there at the Boss.

I saw you there because I was there at the launch of that Batch Boss.

That was me.

She's so proud of her.

She's some people, you know, like major people and bachelor bachelor's and now she's doing major birthday parcess your thirtieth birthday, you're fortieth or thirty fifth, or you know, girls, trip guys, guys.

She helps.

So Avery's company planned the party, planned the bachelorette party right right.

But what she does is it's like soup to nuts because the big thing is to say, it's the money.

You may have a budget that you can afford a thousand night.

I may have a bunche of only two inndred night.

So she'll say, what are you comfortable spending?

So she takes salary.

Yeah, So it's that way.

She stands out a question here, what are you comfortable spending a night?

Because you know everyone has different budgets and that's a sensitive question now.

And then she collects the money and then she'll and she doesn't charge that much.

I think she'd be charging more.

But then and then but it's whatever she charges, it's worth it because she gets discounted all the hotels and the clubs, and it really does.

And she gets not to stop fun.

So she'll create the theme tonight's Scream with Envy, tomorrow's Pink with Passion Leopard night.

She'll have all the services, all the swag, all the decor.

She'll arrange the yacht or she'll say, okay, you you know the bride wants you smart.

It's the yacht.

But you know what, it's not in the budget for these girls.

So you're gonna have to have your future husband pay, or your parents pay, or who's someone pay, but they can't.

We can't put it in the budget.

Right And then I know, I always I never experienced what she did until she had her thirtieth birthday party and rented the largest least the largest villa Intulom, which she does for bachelor and bachelor of parties.

And I saw her in action, and you know, the drivers were there, and then the itinerary was there for every day, and there's the chefs and the bartenders and the food and she stocks the refrigerator from his favorite drinks and food and it.

Was just an listen, listen, I when my daughter gets married, and I always say, fifty years from now, please, I'll be calling Avery.

But the thing is, I want to know, in terms of you and Avery, what advice do you give her?

So is she I don't know if she's single or not.

Right now she's single, she's thirty, is single?

Okay?

So I always say to both my kids, I don't want them to get married until after thirty.

That's was always my right for whatever reason.

I just feel like, live and learn and get all of that out of your system and being single.

But what advice do you give to Avery?

You've been through it, so.

Advance starts dating?

I mean yeah, as far as looking for a guy, as far as she's very fussy, she knows exactly what she's looking for.

Remember one time, because Mom, what'd you think of the guy I brought home?

On paper?

He looks great, right, but in person he's boring.

I go, you're right, he was boring.

I mean really handsome, graduated from a top college, top job, blah blah blah blah, tall, good looking, polite, but very like flat like flat.

Yeah.

So she knows exactly what she wants and she's gonna get what she wants.

So do you give her anything specific?

In terms of I still.

Don't go out with so many girl And she said, oh, Mom, the other night, I followed your advice.

I said, at the bar ordered food with my girlfriend with these guys next to us.

We all went out after we did something else.

After that we saw on the next day we all went out as a group.

So she says, you're kind of right, mom, But she loves her girlfriends even more than I do.

So she has just girlfriends all over, she said, she brought she has so many girlfriends.

You don't tell her, like, listen a guy like this and no, like if he because I've done that to both my kids, right, like, like these are the things to watch out for.

Well, I say to her, if a man doesn't like his mother, he's not he doesn't like women, So make sure he loves his mother unless.

You're important, interesting, interesting, And.

I tell her she's like me.

We like to take control when you go out in a daycare, let the man take control.

Can you be a little more softer, like let them order say okay, you know I'm gona have this for my meal, and him ordering, Can you order me a glass of weight wine please?

I mean, men like to feel like men.

You know, can you help me with this?

Please?

You know, let them feel like a man.

Yeah, I'm just curious you want to get married again?

I don't know, because I know you're living your best life.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I like being in a relationship.

I like being monogamous.

I don't know.

That's a very interesting question.

I don't know how to answer that.

I say never, say never.

So who need to be open to it?

Who knows?

Okay?

All right, it's a really good place to be where you don't feel that you have to get married or need to get married, right.

I mean I already I'm financially independent.

Yep, I already have my children my child right, so there's no need for me to get married.

Right.

Would I like to have a life partner?

I'd rather say, like a life partner?

How's that?

A life partner?

Love it?

It's like being married without being married, right, Goldiehan and it committed relationship absolutely right.

I'm like a Goldie hon you really are?

I always commier myself more to commit Aaron DZ.

All right, So I can't help, but I have to ask you a little bit about reality TV.

I'm not going to ask you about a Rony reboot, because I feel like everyone asks you about that, But would you go back to reality TV for short stints?

Like I would not want a film for four months straight because I love my life and I think that's one of the reasons why I look good because I'm not stressed.

No one realizes how difficult reality TV is.

It takes a lot of stress.

Yeah, because because I'm so unfiltered and I'm so open with my face expressions, I'm always being I was always being attacked because you know, attack ramone and you'll get more screen time and you'll get a reaction.

So it's very It was very stressful.

It really wasn't being in the press getting negativity from the press that wasn't true.

That was very painful to me.

So now I look good because I'm really happy.

I have no stress.

So I would love to do something like a two week gig, a three week gig, maybe Traders, maybe something else.

I don't know, but like a short gig.

You know, I love I did the Ultimate Girls Trip that was like perfect five days, four days.

That was wonderful.

I see it one hundred percent.

I see you doing all of that trade like any kind of a spinoff, Ultimate Girls Trip.

All right, what about the Love Hotel?

What is it the Love Hotel, the One oh No, or the Golden Bachelorette, any of that.

Well, that's the then you force.

I don't know, because that forces you to be with men, to have a relationship with and you have to start maybe kissing them, And I don't know, And I don't think that's for me.

Yep, yep, they never asked.

I can't believe they never asked you to do Love Hotel.

Huh, that's not they know.

It's not for me, you know, for you it's a great show.

Yes, I think Delanne did do it, and she's just great out of it.

It's just not for me.

Right, Is there anything in the works in terms of anything?

You never know, You never know.

That's my coy girl.

So, speaking of Ronnie, I did hear also that there's a group chat that goes on you guys still have.

Oh yeah, we're all we're genuine friends.

Right, who's in it?

Who's not?

We're all in it all.

Does Bethany in it?

I mean, well, no, of course Bethany obviously not.

Come.

Yes, yes, Bethany's her own her own island very well.

Said, I mean, Bethany's a lovely girl, but she likes doing Bethany.

I think she's a lovely girl.

Really, what do you want me to say?

I don't know she can say she can she's a lovely okayends on the day.

I say she's like a cat.

You don't know if she's gonna scratch your eyes out of prep next to you, you know.

Yeah, I don't want to get that closed anyway, Like who's who's the of all your former cast members, who's the last one you spoke to?

Because I know people want to know this.

Well, No, I speak to Luyne a lot.

Lewayne and I are closed because she lives in the Hampton.

She lives in New York.

You know, she lives in my daughter's building.

Oh okay, and that's two blocks from me.

Oh that's right.

Yeah, I kind of remember I dropped off shoes at you're building?

Yes, right, yeah?

Yeah?

What else can you tell our listeners?

My friend is there.

In terms of advice, I'm telling you guys whatever Ramona's doing.

Oh, finances, because no one knows about finance.

This is actually on my way over.

I'm with someone who helps me out with my social media and other things.

And he said, I don't know what to do with my money.

Oh, you're young.

Put it in the SP five hundreds.

All you have to do.

Put it with Fidelity.

They don't have any fees.

Said, or if you want to do something a little riskier, take the top five stocks they made like they like in the past five years.

They went from like if you put ten thousand and they went to like two hundred thousand.

That's riskier.

Or I would do half half in the top seven stocks and half in the S and P five hundred and put in Fidelity.

And you're dous right.

Every month put in two hundred, one hundred, three hundred, because that's what you need to do.

Write it down.

I'm telling you guys, whatever Ramona's doing, she is doing it right.

I have a last question for you.

Do you ever think of changing your last name?

No, well, your Ramona sing her.

I feel like you're an icon, so.

There's no reason.

I know a lot of women after they get divorced, they put their name back to the maiden name, but no, it switched work.

Yeah, and also I have my maiden name name, so my name is Ramona.

Missour singer.

Okay, yeah, I can't.

I'm glad that you never did.

I feel like it kind of goes well.

Ramona's singer versus Ramona Massaur ramota singer sounds better.

Agreed, I was Jennifer Gutterman, which I just hated.

Oh yeah, I don't like that horrible gutterface although j terrible.

Yeah, I like fesslor much.

Anyway, Thank you so much, thank you coming in.

We love you, we adore you.

Please come back absolutely, because you have a lot of good advice.

I feel like we've only sort of scraped stretched the surface.

Yes, all right, guys, So Romona, it's just it's been a blast.

You are thriving, and we're so happy.

To hear it.

As anybody out there started dating again but not having much luck.

We are here to help you, guys, so call or email us.

All the info is in the show notes, follow us on socials, make sure your rate and review the podcast I do Part two and iHeart podcasts where falling in love is the main objective.