Hey, Ti, it's the holidays.

You've got kids.

That means you had time to write a cold open right?

No, no, what do you do?

Come on, You've got fun Factor Two old gamers reviewing old video game magazine reviews.

I'm Ti Shelter, He's Aiden Mohert, and we're two professional writers who grew up loving the video games and video game magazines of the nineteen eighties, nineteen nineties, and two thousands.

Every episode we take a critical look back on the games media that, for better and for worse, inspired us to do what we do.

First, go to funfactorpod dot com and follow the show on your podcatcher of choice.

Leave us a rating review on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you check us out.

We'll read the best, kindest, funniest, and most insightful ones on the air.

In our latter section, Please consider becoming a member of fun Factor Ultra, our premium tiers, the unlock ad free episodes, bonus episodes, and the swanky members only channels of our discord.

So just go to Funfactor pod dot com.

I promise you cannot miss it.

Then help us spread the word.

Shout us out on Blue Sky at funfactorpod dot com and everyone else and everywhere else at fun factor Pod Aiden.

Waves of layoffs have rocked a game dev industry over the past couple of years, and the tech sects are more broadly, and publishing and media even more broadly, digital media more specifically, and games media even more specifically.

Folks, if you are listening to this podcast, you've had announced games you were looking forward to get canceled.

Studios you loved, clothes, writers and creators you love leave the industry and outlets you love gutted.

You might also yourself have been laid off or let go or lost work or lost opportunities because of all this.

And you know, in one sense there has been a post forest fire spring.

Small independent teams in small creator owned publications like Hello this one have sprung up to fill in the gaps between the big tripa A tent pole releases and the handful of big corporate game sites left.

But amidst all of this, we lose a little something that's harder to define.

Mentorship Aiden, can you maybe convey to our reader's what having editors in place for a long time at an outlet can do.

Yeah, I mean my.

Career as a writer goes back very far.

And if you know, like I would pinpoint two thousand and seven when I opened my blog A Dribble inc As the start of that, like really a start of a career writing.

I didn't make money off of that for many, many years until I kind of branched out into doing you know, professional work with outlets like Reactor which he used to be, Towar dot com, Barnes and Nobles science fiction and fantasy blog, and then into games journalism.

I honed you know, a lot of my voice through my blog and learned how to write in my own voicy way.

But there was also something that I could tell was was sort of keeping me from being able to level up even further.

And a lot of that was just ego.

Like you know, I was always a good writer in school.

I was always you know, my dad's a writer.

I was always praised for that.

Told I could write, and so I could.

You know, I had a great blog, did really well.

I was doing it on my own, and I actually, by the end of that kind of moved into more of an editorial role where I was acquiring a lot of pieces, reaching out, you know, curating writers to come in and write for me, doing a lot of guest posts on specific topics, and so I was doing that editorial job from the other side, and that gave me that first inkling of like, oh hey wait, working with an editor isn't like an ego check, it's collaborative.

And I started having conversations and I remember one of them, like one thing I was really well known for on a dribble of inc was like cover art critiques.

You know, well, I'd scoured databases.

I'd find like early covers before they had been officially announced, leak them, and then often have fun at the expense of the cover, sort of critiquing it.

And one of the one time I sat down with Brent Weeks, who was a science fiction and fantasy writer.

Fantasy writer, I guess, and his books are great.

I was having dinner with him down in Portland and he was like, hey, man, like, you know, I think I hadn't liked the cover for his recent book.

And he's like, hey, hey, Like, you know, I get what you're doing, but like, you know, I think you have such a big platform you could grow into something that's more reporting base.

It's more journalistic than what other blogs are doing.

Because you have access to so many people, Like when you're doing a cover, reach out to the people who made the cover, like, don't hold your opinion back, but you know, place your opinion beside that of someone else right who was involved in the process.

And I was like, Hey, that actually makes a lot of sense.

And then Andrew Liptak did this fabulous history of the Expanse science fiction series, which did a lot of reported like interviews and you know, talk to a lot of people.

It wasn't his same voice, y you know, writing that he usually did from his perspective, and I kind of stopped him.

I was like, oh, yeah, okay, this can work in this space.

What does that look like?

And so I started seeing the way that other people's work and you know, like influence on me was changing my writing for the better.

And that helped me understand collaboration.

And so when I closed to Dribble, Inc.

I kind of did short fiction for a number of years, and then as I started to expand out where it's into journalism, A huge push for that was wanting to work with these writers and editors that I've admired for a long time.

And so my big first feature for Kotaku was edited by Chris Kohler, and it was a behemoth.

I didn't know what I was doing right now.

Feature it was ten thousand words.

It like, God bless Chris for working on that with me, but he made so many cuts that made it so much better, and that was a real like eye opening moment for me.

I went, hey, like working with somebody on this helped me, and like, there are bad editors out there who are, you know, also egotistical, but I I mean it's ten to one, one hundred to one, you know, like in my experience of editors who are in there wanting to make the best piece possible.

And so you kind of lose that when you get out and away from a really strong, not hierarchy, but a strong community of writers and editors who kind of like allow experience to guide younger and newer people.

And as we move forward into worker owned sites, that's great, but you're also having a bunch of experienced writers edited by their equally experienced colleagues and no room for new writers to break in.

And that's something that I think we've really lost and I watched since I broke into games journalism twenty nineteen I've watched like the level of editing that I get on my pieces dwindle, right, and so like people like Jason Wilson, people like Chris Kohler were doing a lot lot of like content edits, like a lot of back and forth working with me to find the best way to tell my story.

And now I don't see a lot of that.

And that's because editors, not that they're not good at it.

It's not that I've gotten so good I don't need edited it's that there's just not time and resources, and so they hire someone like me because I'm experienced and they know they can get a good first draft out of me.

And there might be style guide updates, his copy edits and all that, but rarely ever like content updates at this point.

And I think that like for young writers, it's just really important to recognize that you're raw and that's a good thing, and you can learn from people who have been around forever and find the advice from them that makes sense for your writing and what doesn't, and just grow and meet people and have conversations, build relationships.

And that's just disappearing, which is sad for me.

It is, you know, tough time to get into games writing.

Yeah, yeah, and you know, for me, obviously, I've not held a regular games writing game.

But I was in sports writing full time for quite a long time and still freelance quite heavily, you know, and I have regular gigs, ongoing gigs, and coming up in Bleacher Report.

It was the same thing where I had an independent blog that was all me, all the time, all my voice, all just my taste and what I thought.

In the same thing.

I was the writer guy in school, or at least I thought of myself that way.

And you know, I had some experience.

You know, my mom was in advertising and she's a great copy reader and proofreader and writer.

So like, okay, great cool, But working professionally was different.

In some of my first couple of freelance things where you know, whoa hold on, I'm freelancing for newspapers.

This is a whole the different thing.

And then yeah, when I started working at Bleacher Report full time, part of it was they were going from totally wild West blogging to oh, we need to like up our games.

They brought in some old magazine and newspaper editors to coach up their writers and got just a crash course on Okay, what is a lead?

What is nut graph?

How do we write that?

You know, what is the voice of the site?

Who is the audience we're trying to reach?

Right?

Like?

Every piece can't just be here's what I'm thinking, you know, very at large, even though that's cool, right like, and and there are reasons why we have the gamer column and reasons why we have the like morning After column, right like, there's these formats to follow, you know, and it's because it's what the audience likes and expects.

And sure enough, some of that was right for disruption, right but like having decades of experience and going hey, like casually someone mentioned once I went, oh wow, and that's stuck in my head forever, right and it's made me a better writer.

And so you know, the thing with independent, like you said, aiden, like, Okay, you have a bunch of colleagues who are all roughly the same age, who often worked at the same autge together and have an idea of what they want their site to be, and literally their site, they own it, right who's mentoring them?

And sometimes you have people and you know, obviously no shade at all to the twenty five to thirty one year olds doing this in a lot of cases, right, But like a lot of those people didn't have very many editors either, because the winnow wing was already happening for editorial leadership.

So if you've been writing about games more or less full time for the last five, six, seven years, you've probably been doing it at sites where they haven't had one person or two or three or four people in charge for the site for years and years and decades on end.

And we're transporting back to as part of fun Factor, a time where editorial changes meant big changes.

Right, Who is the editor in chief?

Who are the senior editors?

When someone comes or goes, or leaves or stays, the whole voice or look of feel the site can change, and you know, for the better or for the worse.

An audience might grow, audience might shrink.

And you know, I think this Mirror is game def itself.

Yeah, big time.

And I think, like, I think there's something too about I mean, the whole concept of the show, I suppose is that we're at a place now where the first generation of people who only knew a world with video games and video game magazines, the kids that we're reading Game Fan or EGM or Game Players, Nintendo Power are now the ones that are sort of like making those magazines and games only.

The games industry and the games media landscape is not built for adults with jobs and kids, and so you do see also, like the flip side is people kind of burn out and reach their early thirties and say, oh, I can't do this anymore.

I need something more sustainable, and so they're leaving games media, or they're leaving you know, the game's industry, or they get play it off.

And it's likely maybe that's the wake up call I need.

They go to get into PR or they go into you know, different industry or different writing beat entirely if they can find it.

And I think that there's that loss of sort of institutional knowledge that can happen as well.

Uh, you know, I have forty two years old.

I'm sort of one of the old people in games media these days, right, Like the editors I am working with are you know, they'll mention that like, oh, hey, I'm going to turn twenty nine in three days, twenty nine.

Man Like I could barely even like tie my shoes when I was twenty nine.

Ah, But you know, I think It's just like building communities requires all types.

And it's not to say that you know, the people worker own sites like Aftermath don't produce amazing work.

Of course, I do think that like the best environments are going to have like I'm not getting into like you know, the like both sides diverse, like whatever nonsense that gets pedled at, you know, like centrist magazines or how whatever CNN and more diverse in their opinions.

That's not what I'm talking about.

But people who sort of like can work in tandem with others who have more experience, who have more you know, you know, learning and knowledge that they can pass down and frankly, like the biggest mentor I've had as a game drenalist has been you.

I didn't know what a nut graft was and I literally had to explain it.

You used it in some feedback you gave me, and I was like, I don't know what a nut graph is.

And then you know a kicker.

You know, I knew them conceptually right, just from reading and writing, and I was writing that graphs and kickers and stuff.

But you know, you've provided that level of like, Okay, you're a good writer.

But now here's how sort of reporting works.

Here's what an editor is really gonna like, here is what readers respond to.

Here's how to structure this piece, you know, in a way that maybe flows a little bit better.

And so that's that rawness that, like, you know, the rawness is what makes my writing my writing.

But there are just.

Those ways of refining it and making it better and finding somebody like you, because like the one constant throughout all of this this is turning into, like, you know, a love letter to Tie.

But like you've been sort of that constant throughout where I've been able to like have consistent, ongoing feedback, and you've been there to see, you know, the growth that I've made responding to that growth, because the fact of the matter is nine out of the ten editors I've ever worked with have been fired, laid off or left the industry, right, Like, nobody is around that I've worked with.

I like, you know, I've been getting a bit of work for Retrogamer, which is a paper magazine in the UK, which is fabulous and funny.

That fun factor sort of came up at the time when I've finally broken into some print magazine stuff, you know, and working with the editor there and being able to kind of grow our relationship has been really great and it's led to, you know, some pretty fun opportunities.

But a lot of the time I write something, you know, Wired, I was able to write three pieces and then the editor left, and I've just never been able to crack them in.

And you know it, when you don't have like, you can build relationships, and they're great because it's good to have good friends.

But the journalism industry has been relationship based forever, I think, and when the professional aspect of relationship building falls apart, you can sort of see how it then like then what like what are you supposed to do?

Right?

Yeah?

At that point, you know when I have to reintroduce myself.

Like I'm six years, seven years into this, and I'm still having to write, like, hey, my name's Aiden Mohurt.

You know, like, are you go winning journalists with working Wired?

Every time I pitch a story, because it's an editor I've never worked with, even if it's a place i've Also, I was about to say, also, hey, I published three pieces for your website that you work for two or three years ago.

Yeah, yeah, I mean Kotaku was putting out a call for freego lance writers, and so I through my hat in the ring and it's like, hey, you know, you know, I'm Maiden.

I've written for a bunch of places like Washington Post, Wired, and Kotaku way back in the day.

It's like, but you know, still having to do that sort of dance because there's so little consistency.

It's hard.

Let alone mentorship, Like just like it would be nice if editors knew who I was because they had been at a place yeah long enough, you know, between two pitches that I've sent to that outlet, let alone like mentorship over years.

And like, I don't know, I don't know what the future is.

Nobody does, right, Like there's so much turmoil, but I do think there's gonna be a premium on human content again, uh, probably before long.

And that's where I think you're gonna start getting really strong return to like some of those practices that really made work great up until all the layoffs started happening.

Yeah, I also have to recognize that at this point I need to be a men tour not a mentee, right, And it's funny to think about that that my experience would place me in a position where it's like, oh wait, I'm no longer looking for someone that I need to teach me.

Now it's my turn to kind of pay it back.

And so you know, I've always tried to as much as I can use my platform to to help other people and you know, be generous with my time, generous with advice and stuff, and just pay it forward as much as possible, because there, you know, there's been so many people who have taken that chance on me, and you know, I don't have a lot of influence in this space, but you know I do have experience, and being able to pass that along is it feels.

Good, absolutely, And some of the experiences I had right, like some of the stuff we talked about, you know, honing your craft, like Patrick Kruby at Vice years and years ago.

The first big reported piece that I had to travel for, right, I actually drove to Chicago for peace covering the Legends Football League as it then was in between being called the Lingerie Football League and the X League.

But I went to go cover this.

You know, I've been working on a reported story and talking to people and there was all sorts of drama.

You know, I was getting unsolicited anonymous emails, tips and stuff like oh my gosh, you know, I'm working with my editor, and the PR person for the league emailed me to deny me immedia credential at first, saying, oh, you're talking to the wrong people.

You know.

You come in with these pre known narratives, but unfortunately the truth is not always sexy.

And I like emailed my editor Patrick and he was like, can you take a call.

I'm like yeah, and he gets on the phone.

He's like, she just gave you your headline and either your leader, your kicker.

Oh my god, like she just handed to you out of silver platter, you know, and we please start talking and everything.

And it was it was great.

But I being there and talking to these women and talking to these people and going through the you know, I had so much stuff and we talked about like thirty five hundred words, you know, maybe a little bit upward growth.

And my first draft was twelve thousand and I flop sweated cutting down below ten thousands.

Yeah, And I sent it to him at like midnight thirty seven, you know, and he woke up the next morning and just replied, HA, got this in half, like right, you know, and like it's as much about what the audience will pay attention to, you know, and what he himself had bandwidth to edit or you know whatever.

But like it was just the he knew how much story was there, and I realized that there's like seven stories there, right, that I could cover this league full time and write real human stories that connect with people, just like I could cover any other sports league, right, But like you just can't do that all at once.

And I think, like also, there's such a like distinct difference between being a freelancer or being like a salary or like permal lancer.

Is like, yes, for me, I can't.

I'm not guaranteed to be able to tell all seven of those stories, you know, So like if that's good stuff, if those if that's enough to like carry a story, but I have no guarantees of like selling a follow up to that same publication.

That like that is tough.

I like to cram all of that stuff in there because I find it all fascinating, but absolutely a good editor is going to say, hey, like this is cool, but like it's often its own little like section, you know, it's it's its own thing, it's its own narrative that the main narrative doesn't need you know, if they were like, hey, could you you know, spin this into like an eight hundred word op ed or whatever, great cool, But that's just for freelance.

It also doesn't work that way.

So it's like, if you're cutting stuff, if you're cutting that down to five thousand words, that's like five thousand words a good narrative that nobody'll ever see, which is also just like as yeah, it's just that's a tricky, tricky thing for me to always balance.

And bleacher report the big problem they had because they started by just going, hey, anybody can write for our site.

You just get an email address, you start logging, and you start writing.

And they just sold advertising a bunch of against a bunch of whatever content, right, and it grew and grew, and then they went, oh, hey, you know, they did some editing to like clean up some stuff and call bad stuff or whatever.

But as I came on, I was part of a thing of no, wait, we need to hire people with some amount of track record who are professionals and bring them on, and then we also need to coach up some people.

So they actually developed a really robust in house like edited writer mentorship program and like feedback coaches.

So there's the copy editors and stuff, but then there are also like developmental editors that would pick selections of pieces and go hey, like, let's you know talk Kay Jennings who writes novels.

She's sort of the Stephen King of Portland, Oregon.

She writes a lot of like Pacific Northwest based cozy mysteries.

K is wonderful.

She gave me a ton of awesome feedback.

King Kaufman of like Solon and either Salon or Slate that he he did a bunch of mentor stuff, and I've talked before.

He actually did this little video about explaining leads and being like, hey, when you start a piece, you have about the length of time, Like pretend somebody is getting on a bus and you've got just enough time to run up and tell them your lead, right, And he's like, the best lead I ever heard of my life was I was in eighth grade and somebody shot Pope John Paul the second I think this is eighty two or eighty three, so this is this is Adrian King.

But so like a girl in his class ran up as he was getting on the bus to go home and went somebody shot the pope.

He's like, whoa what somebody shot the pope?

Right, you know, and he's like okay, now, like here's what inexperienced writers like often do.

And like they went and filmed him getting on a bus, right, and they just had like an intern do this, and so like they first reenacted somebody shot the Pope and then he's getting on the bus and she like runs up and he turns to look at her and she goes The history of papal assassinations is both long and interesting in you know, thirteen seventy two.

And he's like okay, and he like gets on the bus and the bus drives away, right, And I'm like, oh wow, Like what an incredible way to demonstrate that, right, And that's because Bleacher Report as an organization, as an outlet, went we have to put time and money into mentorship and like yeah, Andrew says in the chest that's a good bit, like absolutely, and it's like wow, Like what an instant crystallization.

So I will think about that till I die when I write the first sense of a piece.

Also so focused though on like online writing, where there's a million, infinite number of auditions, what somebody could be doing one of Like I talk about the one up dot com days a lot because they were so influential on me.

One of my favorite writers at that time Sean Elliott, who would write a review and he'd have an eight hundred word review and he'd like open it up.

He'd open the review with three hundred and fifty words about like I don't know some like kid who crapped his pants at school when he was a kid or whatever, or how had some kid xlax at school or whatever?

Right, And he'd spend three hundred and fifty words on this and he'd be like why, like w and then but then he'd like tie it all together in the final four hundred and fifty words into this like really eloquent in a crude way review of whatever game, like you know, Company of Heroes that he was working on, And I always kind of admired his ability to like do the opposite of what you're describing here, which is like lead someone in with like what I thought I was reading a review of Company of Heroes?

Why is this about a kid crapping his pants?

And that sort of writing has always appealed to me, But I think that Sean was sort of an outlier or maybe just they wn up being so far ahead of their time.

He was sort of taking a style that works maybe better in print media because somebody's already bought that magazine, right, They're committed to buying it.

They've already paid for that writing, So it doesn't even matter really if they read it.

You know they're not.

It's not going to more money for anybody if they spend more time looking at that page.

And so you could maybe have more diverse structure of the way that people approach something like you know, features or op ads or interviews or previews rather than all this like news beat based stuff.

Like you if you're writing about lines game last night, like you have six hours to capture that audience, right, whereas like magazines obviously were running on monthly timelines, and so you wrote news differently, you wrote previews differently, and maybe there was a bit more leeway in how you approach storytelling, which I think is also really interesting, and I think like, in some ways I'm wired to have written for old video game magazines more than you know, twenty twenty five era websites, but you know, working with editors is the way that you figure that out, and sometimes you do have to like put your ego aside and say, hey, this isn't the way I want to read it, but like, this is the way this website presents stories and writes stories, and so I can be really good at writing stories that way too, if I need to be.

Yeah, well, if this were just a writing podcast and not also a reading and reviewing podcast, we could go in a little bit about how my column for Pride of Detroit Direct did actually lead with a anecdote about my youngest and micro and macroeconomics and how football is both simple and complex like economics.

But we have game Fans nineteen ninety seven December issue to discuss and their review of Quake to discuss and review as well.

If you aren't already a member of Fun Factor Ultra, if you aren't listening to this live as we record it on stream for our Fun Factor Review crew members, well you know, sit tight, hang on through the break, listen to some ads and millennium thoughts incredible original music right here on fun Factors.

Welcome back to Fun Factor.

We're two old gamers review old video game magazine reviews of course we want you to review us.

Do we get a full five point zher in fun factor?

Leave us a review on Apple podcast, YouTube wherever we will read the best, funniest, kindest and most entertaining ones on the air.

Aiden I want to ask, what's the deal with game Fan, But of course, uh, you know, we have discussed game fan before, We've done game fan before, and if you are not a review crew member, you've missed out on the bonus episode, our interview with Molly Patterson, who was heavily involved in editorial content creation, etc.

Throughout the run of Game Fan, and then to eat GM Definitely go back and listen to that.

I think there is a preview teaser on the main feed and you can get some of the good conversation that we have with this one.

December nineteen ninety seven, one hundred and forty two pages of editorial content plus all the game Fanish ads in the back.

Again, if you don't know, Game Fan started out as a one video game retail stores sort of newsletter slash catalog and grew into its whole own magazine, but they kept a bunch of the ads in the back.

Number of games reviewed and systems reviewed for honestly, and I didn't go bother count because in classic game fan style, the previews and reviews and even a secret third thing that I don't think has ever been formally done in any other magazine that we've reviewed or that I've come up is present in this.

So you know, hey, it's nineteen ninety seven, it's a console mag it's the consoles, it's PlayStation, it's Saturn, it's N sixty four.

That's pretty much it.

The masthead is actually the thing that I want to spend a little bit of time talking about, both less time talking on the masthead itself and more talking about the change in the masthead that came with this issue.

So we have the ad zone here.

I have two letters to the editor.

Aiden I put in the script here the kind of the key part of the first letter to the editor if you want to read that for me.

So this letter from the editor is from Dave Halverson.

Is infamous, I suppose in the gaming space.

And Dave Halverson says quote, Since nineteen ninety two, when I founded Game Fan Magazine, I have acted as the magazine's editor in chief.

It has been my pleasure to assemble and work with what I feel is the finest staff in video game publishing today.

Not only those who remained, but those who have passed through in my time have my deepest gratitude of the original team.

Few remain as many of Game Fans original members have gone on to successful ventures throughout the industry, and now I too have reached a point in the evolution of my publishing career where I feel the need to move on as well.

So, yeah, this issue marks the transition from Dave Halverson to David sj Hodgson.

And are you comfortable explaining this a little bit because I did not read Game Fan much at all, and I was not paying attention when whatever was controversial about Dave Halverson happened.

You've alluded to this before in the past, that this is an issue, So I'm just wondering, are you comfortable talking about more about what is the deal with Dave Halverson.

I mean, I feel like we should have a Dave Halverson episode, bonus episode.

Okay, with them or with people who've worked from him.

But you know, he was an influential games journalist and editor who started Game Fan, who just has a reputation of being very controversial, very polarizing.

He had an incredible mullet I think from what I understand, and I think a lot of that is just like I don't know what he was like to work with on a day to day basis, but I do know that, you know, like he was always just pushing that like personality based games journalism in a way that I think encompasses what is maybe wrong with current games journalism, or not games journalism, but games culture.

He was just bombastic and aggressive and sort of caustic in a way that I think made him hard to work with, probably made his stuff interesting and energetic, but also maybe undermine the work that other people were doing around him.

Interesting.

Okay, so he says here he's going to stay on as creative director, but otherwise we'll let David Hodgson take over.

They also this this dual sort of letters from the editor.

Here's the old one, here's the new one.

They also talk about their editorial alter egos and how those will continue to play a role, which I think is really interesting right that you're doing this, it's not even really k fabe, but as game fans.

Okay, well, you'll still see this character who I write and voice in the magazine, appear in the magazine and that will be me.

However, Da da da da da.

Right, this is just such a to me.

It's such an interesting artifact of this magazine in particular and the scene in general at the time.

Yeah, I think that that makes sense, and like there's also this transitional period for the magazine where you're also you know, you're seeing Game Fan being such a ragtag organization that wasn't founded on like strong business bands, right, and that stuff is hard.

People aren't just naturally good at that sort of thing.

In chat, Greg says when Ryan Lockhart started working for EGM, he used to tell us stories about how the Game Fan editors would befriend the guy with the fastest car because the first people to the bank on payday were the only ones who would be able to catch their paychecks.

And so that was sort of the professional environment that they were working in.

And I think a lot of that came down to sort of just the challenges of running the small business that maybe you don't have experience in in the background, and you know, enthusiasm can only take you so far at a point, you need to learn how to actually run the business that you're running.

Yeah, and there is a sort of there is a type of guy where you run your small business, and hey, you running the small business is the important part.

Things like employees getting paid is not the important part, no matter how much money you're getting or how many how many employees you have.

And there are other people that you know, would rather, you know whatever, will take care of their employees no matter what.

They'll starve themselves before they let somebody wants a paycheck.

So it's just it is kind of reflective of the sort of fly by night type thing.

Dave Alrickson went on to found Gamers Republic and Play so, like Dave Alvison, continued to not only edit this magazine, but continue to edit other magazines and other outlets in the industry.

And this maybe why is I wait, this is maybe why I'm not as familiar with Dave Haverickson because I wasn't reading game Fan regularly while he was in charge of Game Fan and making this thing his own, perhaps above and beyond anything else as far as the magazine's concerned.

And I, like you said, I would love to know more about how it became clear to him that he's reached a point in the evolution of his career that he needs to move on as well, because that decision can be come to from all sorts of ways, all sorts of reasons, just like anybody in any industry.

So, you know, as you've been talking, I've been doing a little bit of like research to try to get, you know, to the bottom of some of this.

And Shadoshi who worked on game Fan, there's a history of game Fan on hardcore gaming one on one.

So this was a letter they wrote to Dave.

They have said they've the in the history, they say they've cooled on Halverson a bit.

But this is a quote from the letter they wrote initially back in the day.

So quote, you are such a great example of the situation where someone idolizes someone, meets them in person and then finds out how much of an asshole they are.

All the people in here who say so many good things about you actually met you, their tune would be different afterwards.

I know, because I was exactly like them before I met you.

I hope I pray that one day you'll realize what kind of person you are, that you'll stop caring about only yourself, that you'll realize how much you have dicked over so many people for your own games, how much you have lied and deceived people to help boost your rock star lifestyle, and that you'll really open your eyes and be a decent person.

I have every belief that you, indeed could be a really great guy, even after all the crap you put on me, sorry all, even after all the crap you put me and so many others who have worked for you through.

Wow, this and that was like ten percent of this letter, damn.

Yeah.

Yeah, we can drop that in in chat or in the show notes as well.

But the hardcore gaming one on one has a lot of like firsthand experiences with with Halverson and how hard and difficulty was to.

Work with.

Yeah.

No, I think that pretty much nails it, based on when you, like, as I was just saying, I've worked with some fly by Night people you know, in meat space, in business online, et cetera, and sometimes there's a hey, I'm the swashbuckling guy.

Who's the guy, and this is me and I am this business and da da da, and yeah, like, sometimes people get pushed to thee and sometimes the contributions are assumed rather than recognized.

Just for Clarity's sake, Sorry, should Oh she is Molly L.

Patterson, Molly Patterson who we've had on the show as well.

So we have that, you know, like strong connection.

This is somebody that you know, I have immense respect for as well writing about her experiences with Dave.

So in any case, what's the deal with Dave Howerson?

That's an entire bonus episode of fun Factor.

I think maybe where we dig into some more of you know, people's actual experiences and you know, maybe did Dave change who knows?

But what did lead to his sort of exodus as a leader of Game Fan.

I don't know the answer to.

That, all right.

One thing that I know, it is way pastime for the flip through.

I actually have jumped ahead already for your benefit.

Page sixteen and seventeen, Actually, I believe a couple more pages.

We have an interview with Bruce Campbell.

Okay, that Bruce Campbell.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

So this month Activision invited game Fan down to their new headquarters to shoot the Breeze with actor and call icon Bruce Campbell, star the Evil Dead trilogy.

Because he was the voice for Pitfall Harry in their three D remake of Pitfall or three D whatever, their new Pitfall game, Pitfall three D.

And I tried to clip out a piece of this for you, but I like every single thing I wanted to clip because there's so much good Bruce Campbell stuff.

Right, there's a.

Fabulous pull quote right in here in the middle of the first page, and it's just quote.

I never watch horror movies, you know, I think most of them are really stupid.

Yeah, which is also like inherent not that all horror movies are stupid, but like there is absolutely like sort of that style of horror movie that incorporates absurdity as part of its whole stick, which I think maybe he's under selling.

But I'm also not a big horror movie fan.

I wouldn't call him stupid though, but I'm not Bruce Campbell, so who knows.

Yeah, yeah, No, Bruce Campbell is very funny.

Unfortunately, he came to do a talk when I was in college, and I showed up, but so many people showed up so far ahead of time that we were like eighty people short of even making the door, Like they packed the whole hall of seats, and then they packed it standing room only, and then we were still like eighty people from actually getting in the building.

Yeah, but I did hear from someone who did make it in that that the poll quote was kind of someone was like, hey, have you well it's not even a pull quote really, but the memorable moment was someone was like, hey, you've been like a lead in all these like small movies.

Have you ever tried being like in big movies.

Scample just like yeah, of course, Like what are you No, I just like really love being in shitty little movies.

He's like, uh like what Yeah, he's just post Harry Potter, Daniel Radcliffe who just does like the weirdest, funniest, strangest movies.

He yeah he can find because.

Yeah he just does that without the like tens of millions, without the thirty million, exactly exactly.

And this is and as you see here, they put every little bit they got from Bruce Campbell into this interview, which of course you would.

They put it all on the text classic game fan style.

This is this is tiny text, man.

They put the whole thing in there.

This is a big meati interview.

Yeah.

This isn't like editorialize.

It's like they've got it all in there.

Speaking of cuts, right, yeah, yeah, like if you saw this on a website right now, it'll be like an eight hundred word mini interview, right.

Yes, yes, we're like half of its editorialized, which I like.

I write those.

It's like, I'm not it's not a dig on anybody.

But times have changed, Yeah they have.

Yeah, they have.

I'm gonna zip ahead a little bit to the viewpoint their reviews section, and again a classic game fan style, we have capsule reviews here, three quick rundowns, basically a big paragraph from three different reviewers, plus five mini scores added up to a total score.

And you know, there's some there's some really interesting ones here.

And as we've noted before, game fan is using the whole scale in a way that most reviewers then and now did not write.

You know, so you can see here, just in this one page, we've got five games.

Got Armored Corps gets ninety two, eighty nine, ninety two, bug Riders gets forty two, two, fifty five, fifty two.

Right, But then here a critical depth for PlayStation I don't even remember this one.

It's seventy eighty eight and seventy three, which feels like a big spread for three different reviewers from the same magazine that was like.

A submarine game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so you'll see here here you know, for me, a sixty five and a seventy seven are like two completely different classes a game.

But Fighting Force gets a sixty five seventy seventy seven and oh snuck in the middle here one.

Yeah, game of the month, and.

It's the game of the month, and it's got the same treatment as everybody else.

Ninety six, ninety eight, ninety seven.

I'm gonna need like somebody to walk me through the differences between a ninety six and ninety seven and a ninety eight.

Yeah, hundred point.

Scale is wild spawn, which this game was panned hard, yes by everybody.

But he got a seventy eight, a sixty and a seventy nine, which is like, okay, the sixty is more in line with what I remember.

Sixty seems high from my memory of the reception to that game, I have, yeah it but yeah, and.

Of course, and then just flip the page.

Tomb Raider two.

Here we are, here, we are.

We're like fifteen reviews into this sixteenth review is tomb Raider two ninety eight, ninety four, ninety six thrown in there with Automobile Lamborghini San Francisco Rush, which actually has a big feature later in the episode episode Issue Aiden.

I swear to God this podcast.

I'm alreadycalling issues episodes and episodes issues till I die.

I get you, oh Lord.

And the one I really wanted to point out here is Quake for Saturn.

We have three paragraphs here ninety two, ninety ninety three, and we're going through review the actual two page spread editorial review that will be later in the magazine.

But hey, why not give three different reviewers three different bites at the Apple.

I find this so appealing, the like mixture.

Of like full length like feature review and yps reviews.

I love it too.

Yeah, I think it's great.

Yes, yeah, I mean taps or reviews and like feature reviews serve totally different purposes, and so I like the fact that we get both of them.

I think caps or reviews are great as little buyers guides tell people what the game is if they are going to like it, you know, like should they spend their money on it?

And I find that feature reviews are better at being like, hey, what is this game, what's interesting about it?

Where did it maybe fail against its ambitions?

And so like you usually wouldn't get both, and so I like the fact that they give both, even for like the big games, instead of just giving the big games feature reviews and caps or reviews for sort of the smaller releases.

Everything gets at least caps or reviews, and then you know, feature reviews for the big one.

Yeah, and Craig Stewart and check goes.

Look at those spont sizes.

I've tried to blow this up big enough that you can read on street, but it really doesn't look like you can.

So for just the quake, this is okay, here we go, I'll read.

I believe this is Halverson's review.

I could spend this viewpoint telling you all about the extra lighting effects, startlingly precise control, and all around marvel that lobotomy created.

I could chat about the scary musical score that outperforms any N sixty four ham and organ warblings out there.

I could banter out which, by the way, my grandpa taking strays.

He was a jazz and poco organist and had a ham and organ that I used to poke around with as a kid.

Damn ooof.

I could banter on about the hidden comic Mondo cool Daddy you the four lobotomy levels and the fact this is all running on a machine which most folk imagine can only handle two D.

But I won't.

I'll offer a quick two thumbs way up for the maniacal marines up at Lobotomi HQ, and then quickly rant about the ineptitude of Sega of America had not allowed that link compatibility.

Hello Hambleton to soa engage brain please, of course you don't want to make the best multiplayer game on the planet NetLink compatible?

Yes, good move.

I like it, and the Bottomy already had the NetLink version up and running, but you still canceled Bravo bracket sobs bracket ninety three.

And again I want to underscore.

This is one of three capsule reviews for Quake on a page that contained three capsule reviews each for five different sorry, six different games, six different games.

Right, So that means there's eighteen capsule reviews on this one page.

And that was that covered a lot of ground.

It's pretty impressive.

I mean it is dense, it is not readable, but there's a lot there.

And I mean like that review just read out too like fits in a lot of voice also, which can be challenging in a small space like that.

But you know, some of these cops reviews are probably like, I don't know, two hundred words, you know, one hundred and fifty words, like they're.

Yeah, yeah, there are full page reviews that only get two three hundred reviews in most magazines, right because they have screenshots and you know, non font size is bigger than four or six points.

Oh my lord.

Yeah, Greg immediately says small spaces get less challenging when you reduce the font size to add fifty more words, for sure, and like this doesn't change.

They've got a big old Duke Nukem special.

I'll just I'm just gonna flip through.

But again, this is a super dense strategy guide.

Every item in the game, every weapon in the game, all this stuff absolutely dense.

And Molly talked about this in the bonus episode right where you go.

Look, I'm so passionate about this.

I want to get all of the information to these people, right, Like, here are the readers.

They want the information.

They're buying the magazine to get this information.

I am going to give it to them.

Does it is it readable?

Maybe not?

Is it attractive?

Absolutely not?

But like I'm gonna get it in.

There, and it just speaks to the passion that I guess like that, I mean, maybe that's why I'm doing a podcast with you thirty years later.

But like that was an upsell for me, Like I was not daunted by small text and bloated features, you know, like I love that.

Give me everything, give me every word of that interview, like uh, and you know, when we talk about how we've been influenced by our time with these magazines, like that probably is a big part of the why.

You know, writing online for my own blog was appealing because I did that big, expansive writing where everything just sort of spilled out because I didn't have that editor telling me, you know, like fitted into this box.

As I've been writing for magazines for like retro Gamer, it's been like a nice challenge being told, hey, you need to write this sidebar and it can only be one hundred and fifty words, you know, And I'm like, oh, oh yeah, this is like, you know, now I got to write like a tweet instead of like you know, four paragraphs or whatever.

But okay, I don't know, like you say, like people say, like you know, editors now are like oh, you gotta do this, you gotta do that, But like, I don't know this.

This stuff breaks so many of the rules that I've learned over the years, but I love it.

Too, and I wanted to flip through.

We had a couple of ads that I found interesting right between that and this that I had highlighted already and not get ready for the most anticipated special move in fighting game history, street Fighter in three D street Fighter ex Plus Alpha.

So it's street Fighter in three D.

Yeah, yeah.

I was never a fighting game like.

I would play Street Fighter Too with my friends a lot, but I was never very good at them, and so I always when this was announced it started being shown off through as like this, I was like, Okay, street Fighter Ex Plus Alpha is gonna be my game.

I'm gonna buy it and I'm gonna become good.

Oh as street Fighter ex Plus Alpha.

I did not buy it or become good at it, but I was like determined that this was gonna be the game that I was like good at.

But turns out I'm just not.

Wow, I'm just not a a fighting game guy.

My brain doesn't work that way.

Yeah.

No, And of all the ones, I you know your your hobby horse of like, hey, that's a great fighter too incredible in two D.

You know, why do we need to make it in three D?

Yeah, where it looks objectively much worse.

Yeah, But also we have this thing here and aiden.

This is a beautiful preview, this beautiful preview.

I'm I'm gonna and I've said it before, I've said it online.

We've talked about this Quest sixty four, which there's a great Blue Sky account that makes Quest sixty four literally.

My favorite Blue Sky out.

Yeah, it's incredible, it's great, but it's got so this thing here P for preview.

Here's why I didn't go and count all of the reviews, because they're all put together and they all look pretty similar.

Some are marked P for preview, some are marked ORE for review.

And then also there's the secret third thing.

Right, So Quest sixty four, this was the cover story Quest sixty four, and we are back here.

There's so much could ninety eight's hottest action RPG have thhq's name on it, sum and magic Spectacular creatures, Like there's no doubt that like some of this stuff was like way up there in terms of what the N sixty four could do at the time.

But there's also a lot of stuff that I'm sorry, our hero here, our Quest sixty four boy, is extremely, extremely torky.

Uh.

Some of this stuff is brilliant, some of this stuff is terrible, Some of it is great, some of it is laughable.

Some of it is totally anonymous Zelda like, others of it is like, wow, they were they were really on one with this.

I'm stunning polygon and virons to gasp at, and I'm like, I I struggle to believe that the game fan folks even were gasping at these polygon and virons in nineteen ninety seven.

No, except that people liked three D graphics or some huh uh.

Quest sixty four is not a game I like in Quest sixty four to Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.

I think like, if you had released Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and then sixty four and it looked like it does now, people would be impressed.

So I think Quest was probably impressive back then, not a game I played at the time.

For reasons that are probably obvious to most people who listen to this podcast, it is one that I keep wanting to go back to, though, probably because I love the Quest sixty four official like Blue Sky account.

Like Daily Quest sixty four like.

Posts are incredible, but it is also one that I'm so curious about.

One of the interesting things is that it went on to get a European version, the Japanese version, which had a lot of changes and improvements, and apparently the Japanese version is is much better than the American version, you know, consistently what it is.

But interesting.

But yeah, I mean, like in a post final Fantasy VII world, I think qu s sixty four was like hard.

It was a hard follow up, right yeah, like Founts seven where RPG's were going.

I don't it was fine for what it was, right, Like if it was a reimagining of like, you know, action RPGs on Supernintendo and Farantac seven like completely rearranged the RPG's ecosystem, you know, maybe it would have been more fun.

But I I.

Just look at this because this is the most n sixty fourth thing of all time, right because Nintendo ended up rebalancing the hardware for texture maps, soursus polygons, and so we get these rose bushes that are clearly just hexagonal bumpers that then have rose rose garden.

Yeah, textures on them, and this just looks like hedges have the measles.

This is this is terrible.

Yeah, okay, obviously that looks bad and I can't believe I'm defending like bad three D graphics.

But keeping in mind these also look at this point like there may be direct feed screenshots versus like photographs off CRTs, And I do think effects like that did benefit from being played on con humor CRTs with like low TVL like line counts.

Sure that helped blurrow a lot of that together.

And obviously the Nintendo sixty four was blurry period, but you know, a system appropriate or like era appropriate hardware helped a lot.

Yeah, and also.

What is happening?

Why what have you done to me?

Why am I defending Quest sixty four?

I don't know, I don't know.

And I did this because this enemy design is cool, right, Like these these roses that have come and attack you, and like that, look that looks cool.

You've got shines on the eyes and stuff.

You know that's cool.

But again, here's our protagonist, who you know, if anything is name protagonist Brian?

I think yeah, definitely, like a right, you know, recovers some of his coolness, right.

Oh yeah, one hundred percent.

Okay, well that was our cover story and I just I don't know.

And then of course you turn it's like here's Resident Evil too, and this whole thing is bathed in blood.

But like when you're seeing some of the stuff that play station is pulling off at this time, and like, of course a bunch of this is is assets and and graphics laid on top of the actual screenshots, right, but like damn, like PlayStation was.

Doing some unbelievable yeah, right here, please go back to the first page of the Resident Evil to review, because like, look at this text layout.

It's amazing.

It's like a big T shape kind of cut out around a bunch of screenshots, but it like reads right into the scene the like the fold, so you're you're probably having to like smash that flat just to be able to yes it.

And in real life you are probably not able to read No.

Two or three in either.

Yeah.

But then it's also like the text on the left page is right aligned against the like scene, and then the text on the right page is left line, so it's like it also looks like it reads straight across is one.

Huge la does it does.

That's so funny, but.

Yeah, incredible stuff.

I man, I just I love this era.

And like when I say I love this era, like genuinely I love this.

I love how unique game fans layouts were.

I love how they tried new things even when it didn't work, and that level of enthusiasm is just so appealing to me.

Absolutely, there's a big Turm Rator two feature.

Again, we're talking about the sequels, right, We're now at this point in the cycle.

All the big twos to all the big ones are coming out.

They look great.

Duke NUKEOM three D.

Also a preview Fighting Force is an r A review commanding concrettlort a review.

I wanted to quickly get to a shoot.

I forgot which page where we have a special third thing Final Fantasy Tactics preview.

Again, this this is amazing.

There's a big, big swing.

Unfortunately it's a P not an R, or we would be reviewing the review insane Medio spell like yo, the whole map like's on fire.

And again we have the passion of the people who know what this series means, what this could mean.

So much of the screw texted here.

It's great.

We evenfree.

We overlaid the graphic over the little little score bug here really cool, very nice touch, very nice, and that like the little poll quote is better than Final Fantasy seven And the answer is yes, yes, that's correct, the correct answer.

We also have oh you whoa a you for an update.

Okay, so this is Trap Dungeon.

I don't like the fourth episode.

We've talked about it.

I know it's literally the fourth episode of a row.

We're talking about death Trap Dungeon because this is an a you an update, which is a repreview basically, I think, and this is great.

I usually approach an update with two goals in mind, discuss recent changes of improvements to the gameplay, and explore possible future edition.

Naturally, we also strive to bring you the best shots of the latest Eye Candy.

No we have like an ogre or Gnome flashing has butt at us.

Thank you for the best shots an Eye Candy game fan.

But these theories in mind, I present to you IDOS is death Trap Dungeon a game in desperate need of help.

I've tried my best to find solid, enjoyable gameplay in this latest version, and I've failed.

And the cool shots you see on this page a miracle.

I pray that IDAs has some kind of emergency plan for DD, because it's scheduled December release seems impossible at this point.

So this is going out in the NOE.

I'm sorry, this is going out in the December nineteen ninety seven issue of this magazine as an update, not a review, which you would think it would be.

This would be your review copy so that it can go in the December issue for a game with a December release, right you would think so, And instead, like they said, this is an early Like what bill did they send?

I were game magazines regularly getting, hey, here's a playable pre release build to write a preview about before they get a review.

Well, but on the disk based systems came around, they were probably getting like pre release builds.

Yeah okay, okay, I mean you know what this reads as.

This reads as like, hey, our next cover is Death Draped Dungeon.

Yeah yeah, we're not gonna slam it in an official review yet because we're hoping that maybe next issue you'll be excited.

Uh that's weird, like Rea, Like, you know, follow up previews were normal for games, so like to call this an update is kind of funny, but but yeah, it kind of slots in between.

It reads almost like a review that doesn't want to, like, you know, officially be acknowledged as a review.

Yeah, that's so.

That was just interesting.

There's one other thing I wanted to look at.

It was other stuff, which is.

Before we get to page one, can we go to page one?

Is that sure review of It's yeah?

Next page over there it's the preview of Panzer Dragoon Saga, which is cool.

Two page Oh yeah, just beautiful screenshots, Like it's lovely to see this game get such a strong write up from a magazine like Game Fan famously.

Of course, pans Are Dragoon Saga got like, I think twelve thousand copies printed in English in North America, so it's very rare.

It's very expensive.

Now it's a really really interesting game.

I was, I finally played through ant Well I'm not, I haven't actually even finished on him hear the end, but been playing through it on my Saturdays, right, I got all that set up and and it's really interesting.

It's like, it's not the type of RPG that typically I am looking for, especially compared to other games at that time.

But what it does is so compelling and unique and like it's an experience unlike anything that I've you know, played before since And the merging of sort of Panzer Dragons, you know, three D dragonflight mechanics with more traditional RPG mechanics is really cool and I wish more people had a chance to play it, and I wish there had been you know, I wish it's publisher, Sega had given it as much confidence as game Fan here where they did a huge two page spread with a lot of beautiful graphics, beautiful art, screenshots and stuff.

The screenshot now, this looks really well formatted, really well laid out that I like it a lot.

Also shout out to our friends at Retrograde Amnesia, who did a really good playthrough series for Pansy Dragoons Saga Excellent had a lot of really cool insights into the development and everything, and I love the I love the There's one little bit they talk about at the beginning where you know, our main our main character, like a dragon writer, is like dying, and it's basically, oh, you've got to take this to this place.

My dragon knows the way, and with like one line of dialogue sets up the whole idea.

Oh, here's why it's on rails.

Right, here's why it's a rail shoots because the dragon will fly you there.

You know, so super super super cool.

But I wanted to get to other stuff.

This was actually a like growing section.

We've seen several other magazines attempt something like this, which is like sort of a like rumor, Like we were printing rumors, right.

We did this with the Next Gen issue where they talked about here are all of the Ultra sixty four rumors all in one spot.

And some of them were very clearly like the publisher told us this directly and told us we could print it as news, and we're calling it a rumor, and some of it was like we are making this up, and other stuff was in between.

So aiden, if you want to go in the script here I cut out uh or I thought I did?

Hang on, okay, I copied it, I thought I did.

Can you see the Final Fantasy eight finished done that as section?

Okay?

Great, and the blow it up just a little bit bigger.

So kicking off this edition of other stuff is a rumor called Final Fantasy eight finished done that is, and it reads yes, according to reliable sources at Square Los Angeles, the team responsible for Final Fantasy seven is in the stages of putting the finishing touches on Final Fantasy eight in Hawaii.

Oddly enough, it appears that it has been done for more than four months and is now undergoing bug testing and translation of the text in the US version.

The only question now is when will the game be released?

My best guess would be summer nineteen ninety eight, and expect Square to drop this bomb on Enix as a unveiled dragon quest to a frothing public.

Most importantly, it would seem that Square is shooting for a simultaneous launch in the US and Japan, though I'll believe that when I see it last, but certainly not least.

The same sources also state that Final Fantasy nine is already undergoing preliminary design, the big question, of course being for PlayStation or PlayStation two.

If I had a basket in some eggs, they'd all be on PlayStation two.

Wow.

Lots to unpack here, right, which, of course, of course, Final Fantasy eight was well in development by the time Final Fantasy seven was released, especially here in the US.

Right, it's been done for more than four months and is now undergoing bug testing and translation for the US version.

Seems ludicrous to me in December nineteen ninety seven, and of course, you know, I don't know exactly when the deadline is.

Probably would have been October November, right, and uh uh, Andrew saysin Chat Yeh, Summer nineteen ninety eight was extremely optimistic.

Obviously they didn't hit summer in nineteen ninety eight.

But yeah, and then PS two, if I had a basket and eggs, they'd I'll be on PS two.

Right, that the final Fantasy ninety PlayStation two exclusive.

And it's just like right wrong wrong wrong right wrong wrong wrong rung Okay, but I'm.

Going to give them a mea culpa for the PlayStation two thing because Phone nine, ten, and eleven were all announced at the same time in development sort of simultaneously, and so Square was probably working on fon Fantasy ten in some fashion, at least working on, Hey, what's the PlayStation two version of finn Lance you gonna look like?

And so, you know, like was fon Fancy nine on PlayStation two?

No, but Fooanzi two to ten came out less than a year later on PlayStation two, and so I do think that there is some waight to you know what is essentially them just guessing right, Like, I don't think they had any intel on this, but you know nine would come out not long before a PlayStation two Final Fantasy.

Yeah, can you imagine?

Oh man, I'm playing Final Fancy nine right now, can be to do a full play through for the first time in a long time, and it's just such a wonderful game that just like perfects everything that Square sort of discovered and created during that PlayStation era.

And I just recently beat Fan ten and it undoes so much of what Final Fancy nine, in my opinion, got right.

And I'm so glad I bought that Final Final Fantasy on PlayStation because it's it's just so good.

I'm also actually finishing up a nine playthrough.

I got close to the endgame a few weeks ago, and I've been doing it with my eldest.

And because I've been doing it with my eldest and not myself just by myself, I'll skip this.

I don't need to like, you know, grind too much here.

I don't need to like play too much.

I've played more of the card game than I probably should have for someone who's like watching me play, but you know, like it's still like and now I got to the endgame and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so much stuff.

There's so much stuff that I you know, a missed, which is fine, but be like, I'm not soft locked, but I'm in rough shape going into the Kuja fight.

So uh yeah, it's it's it's funny, all right, folks, It is time for us to do the thing we do once again.

If you're not a member of Fun Factor Ultra, if you've not been watching the live stream of us recording this episode, stick tight through the break.

When we come back, we will review game fans review of Quake for the Sega Saturday.

Right here on fun Factor we are having five stars out of five stars worth fun today and folks, if you are too leaf a rating review on Apple Podcasts, we will read the best, funniest, kindest, and most entertaining ones on the air.

But now it is time to review the review of Quake.

I could not figure out who the reviewer is.

It's just k Oh.

I guess it's it's nightmare.

Okay, all right, this is the thing where I was like, who is k and I tried to go back and look through the bast had to figure out who K was.

K is Nightmare with a K who appears to be English and hold a chainsaw.

Okay, great, so that's our reviewer again.

This developer, Lobotomie, who, as we talked about in the Capsule reviews, is already making a name for themselves in terms of porting cool PC games to various unsuitable consoles.

And here we have Quake for the Sega Saturn.

And did you even know Quake k to Saturn?

Yeah, because I've played it.

I've talked more about getting a you know, an ode and optical disc emulator for my Saturn installing it.

And so I've just been messing around over the past couple of years with a ton of different Saturn games, and I one of them was Quake.

I didn't play a lot of it, but I played a bit of it.

And like the review says, pretty neat to see Quake running on a home console, And like, I think what's really notable is Doom was always sort of like a flat plane first person shooter, right, and so say, for height automatically didn't really have free mouse movement, especially back in the mid nineties, but Quake was like full three D, and so the concept of first person shooters on consoles was like pretty mind blowing.

We hadn't figured out first person shooter controls on consoles.

That wouldn't really be sorted out, I would say, until Halo is probably the one that figured it out.

And so like the idea of playing at FBS with a controller was wild back then, and so when they did play well, it was even more impressive.

Makes them hard to go back to because the controls are not what we expect or not what we're used to playing with now.

But you know, when you could get something figured out like Quake on Saturn, it was you know, it was good.

It was neat.

I love again the game fan stuff.

It's it's so variable right from page to page.

It's brilliant layout, terrible layout, outstanding kind of art direction, miserable art direction, everywhere in between.

Right, the writing quality can swing because it's it's just it's inexperienced people doing the best they can to do a cool job.

Like we talked about at the beginning, right, when you don't have editorial oversight, you don't have mentorship.

And not that they didn't have an editorial team in place, not that they didn't have a leader, but when those leaders aren't people who are like twenty year old magazine into street vets, they're you know, fly by night charismatic leaders.

Right, Okay, well, like sometimes you hit absolute home runs.

I love this layout Quake, the logo, the backdrop, everything.

There's a ton of screenshots of various sizes.

They really effectively convey the mood, the lighting, all this other stuff.

Right, and then the text, you know, the text is tortured a little bit, justification wise, but not nearly as bad or as in a compromising way as it is in some of the other stuff in this very issue.

All right, and do you want to review?

I'm sorry, do you want to read nightmares a little bit?

Here?

I think this is a really effective intro.

First they talk about having faith in lobotomy.

But from from this point.

Forward, trying to fit Quake into a Saturn is like trying to fit Doom into s NES.

And you know how that turned out.

I was convinced that Lobotomi had bitten off more than they could chew this time.

I was convinced that no matter how good a job they did, Quake would lose so much in the transfer that it would compromise the integrity of the experience.

As a conversion, Quake exceeds all expectations.

The game may not run quite as smooth as Duke NUKEOM three D, the enemies may not be as detailed as the PC original, and some of the level layouts may have undergone minor surgery, but otherwise this is a remarkably authentic reproduction of the PC original, right down to the ability to rocket jump and instigate monster versus monster fights.

Lobotomy have succeeded against all odds in bringing the single player Quake experience to the Saturn intact, and despite what you may have heard elsewhere, that's good news for Corridor fans.

Yeah.

So that's the segment I wanted to read leading into this, and I I think it's great because so many great Saturn accomplishments Panzer Dragons Saga included.

It is like, against all odds, against all odds, these people pulled together and did an incredible port of a iconic PC game on a console almost specifically designed not to be particularly good at it.

Right, And as I was saying, you know, everything outside of the text itself to me is a home run for this review.

But I also think a Nightmare here did an outstanding job pulling us in and going like, yes, they delivered what nobody thought they'd be able to deliver.

Absolutely, And I think, like, you know, on top of like first person shooters on consoles just being kind of unique at the time, the Saturn didn't have a good reputation for three D graphics, and I think that was unearned.

I think it could do more and better than what people gave it credit for.

And you know, we were talking about Panzer Dragon Saga earlier, and so to see Quake pulled off on the Saturn in particular was you know, like it was a bit of a flex, especially since the Saturn was basically dead in the water at this point.

But being able to bring Quake two people at home on their TVs who maybe didn't have a PC that could run it is you know, still impressive stuff.

And I think that, like you know, the reviewer here, Nightmare really accurately gives kudos to the developers or the you know, the port team at Lobotomy for for what they accomplished here.

I haven't played enough Quake on the Saturn to really know or compare it, you know, like against the PC version, which I played a ton of, and you always have to recognize that a console version is always going to be different and softer and like compromised against you know, the original PC.

But you know, they bring up Doom as a comparison to Superintendo, and you know, I love the Superintendent version of Doom, even though it's like objectively not good.

But I've been having a lot of fun playing the the limited run do Boom SNS like re release where they've put in a ton of work to make Doom SNS better and it's interesting to see and it's fun to see what they're able to kind of pull out of the original SNS hardware with you know, all this time and perspective and probably some extra chips on the cart, but you can still play Doom.

I put the cart in my original Supernintendo and play it on a regular TV and it is really wild to see it running at you know, higher, higher stable frame rates.

Like all these new additions is rumble added, So like, what could the best version of Quake on the Saturn look like?

How much better would it be than what we got here, which was already impressive enough.

Yeah, and I I don't want to jump to the end necessarily, but jumping to the end, this is the same thing that the capsule reviews told us, right, Quake Saturn is a technological marvel.

The Bottomy have pulled out the stops to bring this baby home and end result is nothing short of stunning.

My only real complaint, and you're going to hear this everywhere you go, is that the game has no multiplayer mode.

I've been saying this since the beginning, but without deathmatch, Quick lose ninety percent of its appeal.

It's still a great game, but as a single player quest, I just don't think it's a better purchase than Duke nwcom three D.

So I this is fascinating to me.

And the kind of shoot yourself in the foot decisions that game companies made the end now right, And they hinted at in the capsule reviews that there was a net ready build already done or or you know, in late late lately beta, right, and it got killed and spiked and released as a single player game.

The idea that you could have been playing this multiplayer and just couldn't as astounding to me.

Yeah, but like could they have, right, like where there's beta stuff that like we've all you know, we always see stuff pre like pre release builds, and then the real build comes out and it's you know, the text resolutions lower and you know, things don't work.

Is good in an open environment as they do in like a closed testing environment?

Right?

Uh?

Yeah, I don't know that I'd necessarily buy that it was just something they chose not to do rather than something that like didn't really have the legs for like a full commercial release.

I've been googling furiously.

I figured it out thanks to our friend Molly.

Nightmare is Dan Jevons, still an Englishman in La, says his LinkedIn senior writer at Game Fan through nineteen ninety seven.

Then became and now I'm going to rewrag.

I cut this opening sentence Aiden, I have faith in Lobotomy after Duke Nukeman three D in Power Slave who doesn't?

But I must admit even I had doubts about their ability to apport Quake to Saturn.

Well, guess who became a senior game designer at Lobotomi immediately after leaving Game Fan magazine.

No, really, get out, Yes, get out?

It gets better, became a business development development manager for Crave Entertainment.

Da Da Da worked on Tony Hawk pro Skater for Dreamcast, Soldier of Fortune for Da Da Da Da Dada, Creative director for Union Entertainment, Founder and CEO of Content King Studios, Executive producer of Chain Games, co founder of DJ two Entertainment Incorporated, creating ip bibles for Nether Hawckin Black Light, Rubicon Supernova, Sort of Souls in twenty fifteen Skulls of the Showgun.

They produced a five part animated series based on that game, and then Sonic the Hedgehog Feature Film twenty twenty co producer Sonic the Hedgehog two feature film, twenty two, co producer Sonic the Hedgehog three Feature Film TVD, co producer with original film Sega and Paramount Original.

Duties included creating or overseeing creation of all original content at DJ two.

Trans Media materials D Da Da Da Dah.

So Yeah has been working on all of the stuff that's not actually the movies for the Sonic movies, the trans media, like promotions, campaigns, et cetera.

All this original media content, narrative designs, games.

So I'm like, wow, Okay, so this this is Nightmare Nightmare immediately after this review, and actually it says nineteen ninety seven at Lobotomie, so he was probably already at Lobottomie by the time this review hit the show.

He carried the he like carried this issue to his like the proof of this issue, to his job interview.

Exactly like his This his draft for this review was his job app for lobotomy Totally.

We've we've seed reviewers, you know, ultimately or quickly linked to the games they ended up reviewing.

I've never seen this before.

This is wild.

Yeah, that's a that's a direct jump for sure.

But I mean like this is also where though the capsule reviews come in handy because we also see, like you know, Nightmares work on here.

But also those capsule reviews kind of backing up Nightmares scores, right, So it's not like, yeah, you know, super egregious to have made that jump, but it is kind of interesting something also and.

As you put, as you put, we talked about with that these these game fan reviews don't have scores, right, the big splashing editorial ones they don't get they don't get the scores.

Yeah, just digging into like this Quake version or satur version of Quake.

What's interesting is Lobotomy actually use their own game engine rather than like pouring over using what Quake was running the Quake engine created by Carmac.

Then at ID they used the same engine that they used for Power Slave in Duke Nukeom three D on the Saturn, just incorporating the three D l share of the engine rather than the sprite based stuff used in Power Slave in Duke Nukem three D, which is interesting.

Probably also made them, you know, like a good Canada because they had that strong understanding of how to make three D games work on the Saturn rather than trying to squeeze the existing version into the console, which I always think is interesting.

Again, you know, we talked about Doom for the SNS on an earlier episode, and it's another one that was you know, like when you're bringing it to consoles, you basically have to remake and figure out how to how to remake a game on a completely different architecture.

There was also a Nintendo sixty four version of Quake between Yes, Yes decent, I think, though I've never actually played that.

One before we were view the review.

I have to close this out still, if you have the money for both, I do recommend you check it out.

The Bottomy have single handedly turned the Saturn from a quote corridor free zone into a quote corridor rich environment.

If I were Sega, I'd be doing everything in my power right now to keep Lobotomy very very happy.

Co signed the guy who was working for Lobotomy.

By the time this issue itself, oh my gosh, you know it's not it doesn't read before I googleed this, that didn't come off as out of place to me.

Right, this is not an outlier review.

Obviously, getting this game, a full three D heavy game that was a age you know, boundary pushing first person shooter on PC not long before its release like onto the Sega Saturday, it is an achievement.

It is like wow, but also it's so it changes everything once you know that detail about what this guy then went.

And did definitely puts things into perspective for sure, because like I am looking at, you know, a round up of reviews for the Saturn version, and game Fan gave it a like what amounts to a two hundred and seventy five out of three hundred, so whatever, that's almost you know, almost that's nine point seven five out of ten or whatever.

But then like GameSpot gave the Saturn version six point four out of ten, that generation gave three out of five, so six out of ten.

What else?

We have six point five out of ten from e GM as well three and a half out of five from all game I'm just pulling these from Wikipedia.

So like game Fan was sort of the standout here, they were definitely above and beyond.

Maybe maybe it was when I said it was an alle review.

Okay, all right, yeah, yeah, no, that's yeah.

It's interesting, and now I'm eager to go play the Nintendo sixty four and Saturn versions of Quake and kind of see how from that perspective they hold up.

I don't know what to give.

This one, Ty, I don't know either, because I think as a whole piece by the team again, pamback out, look at this.

This is awesome, two page beautiful, none of the layout problems that sometimes come with them being ambitious, all of the benefits that come with them being ambitious, good captions without being without the whole review being in the captions, and I think it covers all the bases.

It's just once again wild to then turn back and go, Okay, wait a minute, this guy was singing this teams praises and then was on this team immediately afterward.

Yeah, but you know what I'm looking at quotes from a lot of other contemporaneous reviews of that version, and like a lot of the knocks are similar, Like EGM.

Craig Kujawa for EGM said, you know, it's not a great one player game, gain notoriety for its you know, multiplayer Sushi Xcent without multiplayer, I'd pass Rich ledbetter from Sega Saturn Magazine, who has now now runs our favorite show, Digital Foundry, gave the port in ninety two percent acknowledging basically saying like, quote here, here's a quote.

Look, it's quake on the Saturn.

The machine has no right to be doing this.

In Sega Saturn Magazine basically saying like, yeah, you know, like blowing smoke up the Saturn's ass right by saying like this game should not be able to run on this console in the magazine dedicated to that console, and so like, we are kind of seeing patterns in the critical feedback, and the scores may be changing, but you know, somebody like Rich who I trust now about console conversions and understanding the intricacies of something like Quake running on an inferior console.

You know, for him to say like this shouldn't be happening lines up with what Nightmare is saying in this review as well.

And so when you see patterns within the text of the reviews, I would say that backs up the idea that you know, there wasn't any there weren't any shenanigans going on.

You're necessarily even though there's you know, the look.

Isn't great getting this review from future co producer of all three Sonic the Hedgehog movies.

I was stuttering a little bit earlier because I saw he's listed as a co producer on IMDb, and then I was reading his LinkedIn and I was trying to make sure I didn't overstate what his role on the movies was, because I was searching in real time trying to figure out what his role in the movies is.

But he is credited as a co producer.

Yeah, I think this is a fantastic review overall, what you're saying about the scores and the enthusiasm, and I'm sure some magazines just went, look, I'm not giving this higher than a six just because it has no netplay right or something along those lines, whether that's explicitly stated in the review or not.

So I I want to give this kind of a comparable score.

I think I want to give it like a eighty three nails in the nail gun.

I think that's maybe a little low.

I like how honest Nightmare was saying, like, hey, I came into this singing this was going to be a nice but it's great.

So I think eighty three is a little low?

Are you going to go with an eighty four?

Feels feels a little more right to me.

I think, inter your game fan fashion, we're.

Either one hundred point scale.

We're either forty points apart or we're one point apart.

We can we can't do that exactly, all right, folks, Well we did we get it right?

Leave our review a review on Apple podcasts or in the comments on YouTube or on Spotify, wherever you are listening to us.

The best, funniest, kindest, and most insightful will get read on the air in our letters section.

And hey, there wasn't a letter section today, guys, because we didn't have any new reviews, new comments.

We did have a couple of new subscribers over the holidays.

It was super cool.

New members joining the Ultra Lounge and say, hey, I got some Christmas money, wanted to subscribe to you guys, wanted to be there for some of these recordings.

Want to do that.

That is awesome.

We feel super excited when you guys join it because that is what makes this possible for us to do.

And walking through game history and talking about game present together and with you, it is fantastic.

Please again, if you're listening, consider becoming a member.

Just go to fun Factor pod dot com.

You cannot miss the sign up with you're on the homepage, or just shout us out on Blue Sky YouTube, TikTok at fun Factor Pod.

Specially thanks go as always to Millennium Felt for our amazing original music.

Check out his work at Millennium f a lck dot com.

And unlike these old magazines, you won't have to wait a whole month for your next installment.

We drop new episodes every two weeks.

Just go to fun Factor pod dot com, follow our show on your podcast choice, and I promise you and we will have a maximum score in fun Factor.

My broadcaster is not Oh wait, I know.

No, that's not right.

Oh my gosh, outstanding, outstanding.

In any case, pretend that that was our interstitial music.

We'll put it in the v O D version.

But even anti authoritarianism or anti anti I don't even know.

I don't know.

It's too hard to explain.

But we should do some more research.

And of course, uh uh these guys hold on one second.

Uh.

Dave Alleckson went on to, uh, let me see.

Uh, I thought I did actually get a piece into the script.

We're going to cut this, okay, I'm sorry, and hang on one second.

I'm sorry, folks, vamp for just a second.

I need to run to attend something real quick.

At one moment, we need the Jeopardy theme here.

I don't have the Jeopardy theme.

You guys want to hear what other sound effects I have on my soundboard.

I got some good ones.

Let's see what do we have here?

Oh, this one's good for when TI returns.

This one's good.

Oh here.

It's a hard Stewie and Chat says.

It's a hard balance to strike though, because the freedom of the Internet allowing for longer pieces has been so often taken advantage of my publishers to bloat the whole thing and run as many ads as possible.

Absolutely.

I wrote a huge piece for games Beat a number of years ago about the history of online digital magic, the gathering, and it was like ten thousand pages, ten thousand pages.

I could write ten thousand.

Pages, ten thousand words, but it was like split across sixteen from pages, just a fit as many of those ads in there as possible, And that absolutely hurt the readability of it, even if it's sort of generated more revenue.

And that comes back to the idea that, like in a magazine, that person's already paid for that magazine, so you're not getting you know, if they don't read every single word or they skip past stuff that's not really up their alley, that's okay because you're getting the same amount of money from somebody who reads just the reviews as somebody who reads every single word and the whole issue.

And I'm sorry once again, this is me forgetting to know.

Oh here it is here, it is here, it is so yeah, they also have a chat.

It's going well, as I'm flipping through pages here, I'm doing it the hard way, right, anime fan, So now we're getting like anime coverage.

I've been scrolling back the slow manual way rather than jump to the actual page while I'm killing time, and I've lost the actual page, so I have to do it manually.

So there's burning rangers, this thing here, oh my gosh, the video game control glove, the PlayStation power glove.

There's a thing like this called the Naya that's come out.

It was like a kickstarted keyboard thing that looks like this, and I've been like, oh man, I wanted that so bad.

Okay, here we go, all right, the actual thing.

As a conversion, Duke, Duke, my breaker just went again.

I didn't known, okay, all right, yeah, my breaker just went again just one second.

Oh no, okay, okay, said and you're back.

I'm back.

Yeah all right?

So where was I?

Okay?

I think was wrong?

And so yeah yeah.

Yeah, should I just pick up where I was?

Yeah?

As a conversion, I think throughout this entire site, throughout this entire I've thrown site into the mix.

Now episode issue issue episode site issue episode Okay.

I got to figure out what's going on with my my breaker.

Yeah.

Man, it's like back in college, me and my best friend who had then become the best man at my wedding and you were still very good friends.

Had it down to a science in term of Okay, we could have the TV on TV running through stereo, stereo on, both of us, could have our computers on, but then we couldn't microwave a burrito.

Yeah oh yeah, So if.

We wanted to run the microwave, one of us had to shut down one of our computers, yes, of course, or if God help us, if you wanted a vacuum, because then we had to shut down both computers or one computer and the TV and the stereo, because we put we put that circuit breaker through hell that year.

I don't like it's weird.

I don't even know what I have any like my deep freezing in here, but it shouldn't trip a breaker on its own, right.

If it's close, if it's close, the compressor kicking

On, well, that's that is what my father in law said, was maybe like ma, the compressor