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Welcome to Film Strip.

I'm Jay and happy to welcome back to the show Patrick and Anton from Why Wasn't It Better?

Pat Anton, What's going on, fellas?

Wonderful to be back, Jay.

Glad to have you guys here.

We've been talking about doing this one for a while and finally glad to get it on the schedule because it's time for a little James Bond and Tomorrow Never Dies.

Starring Pierce Brosnan as Double O 7, Michelle Yeoh, Teri Hatcher, Jodon Baker, Judi Dench and Jonathan Pryce, directed by Roger Spotiswood, released in 1990.

Seven, $100 million budget.

So I did the thing that you guys do on your show.

I translated that up.

It's a little over about 200 and six $208,000,000 and gross 339 at the box office.

That's about 684 in today's money.

So a hit nonetheless, but we'll get into it.

But First off, for maybe it's people's first time listening to the show or catching you guys tell folks a little bit about why wasn't it better?

So why wasn't it better is kind of exactly what it sounds like when it comes to movies.

Any movie that we feel perhaps underperformed or was misunderstood, we're willing to talk about it.

It gives us a broad range to really kind of ultimately talk about whatever films that we want.

Exactly.

And Pat what?

What are some episodes that listeners can tune into for of our most recent recordings that we've released?

Our recent recordings, oh, that's a good question because we're so far ahead of the recording schedule.

A bit of a bit of behind the scenes even for.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, I love it on this times when we have that here at the film strip.

It happens some, but not often some.

Yeah.

I mean, we're currently recording kind of our Christmas season film.

So we're going to be doing like the Chronicles of Narnia, young Sherlock Holmes, Doctor Zhivago, the Jim Carrey animated Christmas Carol that'll be out next month.

I mean, next week we've got 3 episodes coming out.

And I just realized, Jay, you record so far in advance to that me.

Not even me mentioning these episodes that come out next week probably won't do much good.

Well, we'll actually be right in line because this is coming out in November here and I just finished up your King Kong episode and I've got to get to the House of Dynamite episode that's out.

But I love the King Kong episode because I have a lot of problems with that movie and y'all brought up every single one of them.

So I enjoyed that quite a bit.

So I, I love to tell people though how I find podcast that I listen to and stuff.

I found y'all about a year ago around this time because I knew I was going to be doing some travelling and when I'm driving, whoever's driving the car, the other person sleeps.

That's how it works with me and my wife.

And so I that's when I catch up on my pods and I said, I'm I this time of the year is James Bond time for me.

So I was like, let me find a pod.

I haven't listened to this, done some bond and you guys had a bunch of it.

And so I downloaded a bunch of those bunch of other things and got hooked.

And I'm glad we've been able to connect a few times this year and then been on each other's shows.

So I appreciate y'all coming on and talking about things.

Everything will be LinkedIn the show description of course, but you can find it wherever you find your podcast.

Folks, So I appreciate that.

Absolutely, because I know you guys are into Bond and things like that.

I want to get your background with this movie and Anton, I want to start with you on this.

When was your first encounter with Tomorrow Never Dies?

And then also kind of what was your first Bond in Bond in theaters that you?

Remember, yeah, so the first Bond in theaters for me was, this is going to be really, really funny for folks.

But first Bond in theaters was, of course, featuring Halle Berry.

So I'm dating myself a little bit.

So I always die another day, Die another day.

But so.

But yeah, funny.

Yeah.

Isn't, isn't that funny, Pat?

But when it comes to watching Bond, of course, as a kid, I watched like my my dad made sure to show me all of Bond, whether it was, you know, Connery, Roger Moore.

So I was very well acquainted just as a kid.

My parents never took me to, you know, James Bond films because also it lined up.

I was about around a preteen when die another day came out.

But now, fun fact for this particular title, tomorrow never dies.

Now as a as a kid, of course for me when I grew up, my first video game system was a PlayStation 1.

So for a lot of folks, their first Bond video game was of course, Goldeneye.

For me it was Tomorrow Never Dies on APS One and which is a very different video game, very different.

I'm so sorry.

Anton that's hilarious.

I've I played Goldeneye too but I had Tomorrow Never Dies on PS1.

So you so you know, it was a very different experience, not at all a first person shooter.

No, it is a.

It's kind of like a knock off siphon filter type very much.

So and the mechanics were very wonky.

There were some clips from the film, which is kind of fun, but of course it was on APS 1.

So it just very, very much looked very bootleg.

But at the same time, I still really, I still have very nostalgic feelings about that film and sorry, that video game.

So that's that, that's me.

And that that is tomorrow, whenever he dies.

That that's also that we share that I didn't know that ahead of them.

That's great.

All right, Pat, what about you, man?

So my earliest memories of James Bond were probably like yourselves and many others, introduced to me by my father.

We had a couple of them on VHS, but it was mostly watching those marathons on TV, which which would usually play around the holidays.

I don't really know what the first Bond movie I saw was, but it it was probably Goldfinger because it was Sean Connery.

And this would have been, I was a real little kid and it would have been prior to Pierce Brosnan's debut as Bond and Goldeneye.

Because I remember my dad and grandfather and my older cousins being really excited for like, Oh my gosh, Bond is back.

Because, you know, there was that long hiatus.

I missed Goldeneye in theaters.

But you know, one of the reasons why I'm so grateful to cover this one with you today is this was my first in theater Bond.

This was a huge deal to me.

Tomorrow never dies.

I didn't realize how good I had it In December of 97.

I saw this and Titanic a week apart.

Oh wow, yeah.

In theaters, I, I, who knew, I mean, who knew how good we had it.

But so I have a ton of nostalgia for this film, despite some opinions that I may have about it, but this film will always hold a special place in my heart.

Pierce Brosnan, while he's not my personal favorite James Bond, how do I articulate this?

He is the first face that I picture in my mind when I think of James Bond because he was the first new James Bond for me.

And you know Anton and his generation.

Yeah, no.

And that makes a lot of sense.

I talked about that with the the fellows that that I did the the Bond series with.

We went through every era of Bond here in 2025 on film strip and I always talk about that like the first Bond movie I saw was was Sean Connery movie.

But the first one I wanted to see was a Roger Moore because that was my Bond when I was a kid.

So he was my James Bond.

And so I when I think James Bond, I immediately think of for your eyes only Roger Moore.

That is kind of my, you know, first picture and then but I'm I was in college when this came out, but right out of high school when Goldeneye hit.

And so I was excited for this too, because I had seen enough Remington Steele to think, man, yeah, Pierce Brosnan needs to be James Bond, you know, and I I back then, you know, you read your star log or Entertainment Weekly and that's how you got your news before IMDb took over the world.

And so I I knew that he had been up for it and get it, you know what all this and then he got the got the gig.

And I love Goldeneye.

We reviewed that in the archives and, and really do like that one.

So I went and saw this in theaters when it came out.

I, you know, really remember that distinctly and then came across the video game.

I don't know if somebody gave it to me or I bought it myself.

I I don't remember buying it.

I think somebody gave it to me because they knew I was in the bond, but have have a lot of memories about that too.

And there's a lot of nostalgia for it.

But it had been a minute since I had gone back to tomorrow.

Never thought so.

I hadn't watched it in a while.

So I got a chance to watch it a couple times before our review here.

But Pat, I understand you like read the novelization.

You're like deep in the lore here with this footer.

Not a shot.

Yes.

Anton knows I I'm a avid collector of film novelizations.

This one is particularly noteworthy because you know most film novelizations, particularly the Bond novelizations, which really date back to the Spy Who Loved Me.

By the way, super rare and kind of pricey.

If you ever find it on eBay, it's way more it's, it's a lot more money than a novelization should be.

It's like 40-50 bucks.

If you're finding the ones that weren't, actually Ian Fleming works.

Yeah, right.

Right.

So the novelizations date back to the Roger Moore era, and the ones that were written during the Pierce Brosnan era were primarily written by a gentleman named Raymond Benson, who actually wrote several of the official James Bond continuation novels for the Ian Fleming publication.

But I want to specifically call out Tomorrow Never Dies because unlike most novelizations, it is quite different than the finished film.

We'll talk about how many script revisions that this film went through.

And you can really tell that they were writing this on the fly because there are entire chapters in the novelization dedicated to Michelle Yeoh's character that don't appear in this film whatsoever.

And so it's really interesting to read because it gives you kind of a unique perspective into what this film might have been.

So just quick question for that film novelization, do you know which script it was built off of?

Because that's the other thing you said it there's so many scripts that were written in the production process.

I'm like which one did it get attached to?

There's no good answer to that because, and this is not just like some random factoid that you can read on IDIMDB, like this is confirmed in the James Bond Archive book I have.

There was no finished script.

This had a half dozen writers.

It went through.

I have the numbers here.

Again, this is directly from the archive book.

39 revisions, 127 scenes added, 159 scenes removed.

And the producer, Michael Wilson, said in the end, we had no finished screenplay.

You can tell because I'm glad to know that the Michelle Yeoh character gets more in the novel because I really almost reordered the credits to be and sort of Michelle Yeoh because she's kind of sort of in the movie that she just disappears.

That comes back and I don't know it's we'll get into it.

But it's funny you mentioned to the spy who loves me because you I I believe very much that there's there's six or seven bond formulas that get redone.

I have no problem with this, by the way.

It's what I love about the series, but this is definitely a take on Spy Who levels feels that way, at least to me.

So.

Yeah, if you're curious how her character gets her mission assigned to her and if you want to see things from her characters POV, read the novelization because you get, like I said, entire chapters dedicated to her.

That, that makes a lot of sense then as we get into the thing.

So, well, real quick, you, you mentioned it a little bit and we talked about it kind of broadly, but just in the rank of bonds, where do you guys place Brosnan in and your your pantheon of double O 7?

Pat.

I probably have him like 3rd or 4th.

And it's not to say I don't like him.

I I really like Brosnan's performance and his take on Bond.

It's kind of an interesting question that you asked Jay because it I almost feel like I have Daniel Craig ranked even lower, but it's not because I don't like Daniel Craig.

I think both him and Brosnan were somewhat done a disservice by the films and the scripts that they had to work with.

I have Connery first, I have more second.

I just feel like they were more consistent and their films were more consistent.

Then I have Brosnan, then Craig, then Dalton, then Lazenby.

Sorry, it was.

More consistent or which was more consistent?

Just kidding.

Sorry.

Sounds good.

All of the above.

Yeah, no, on my end it Brosnan comes second for me and Connery first.

That that's fair.

I, I'm, I have him third as well.

And I, I think you said it.

I feel like in some cases Rodger Moore got this definitely feel like Daniel Craig got this, but Brosnan would have been better if you handed him about 3 of Rodger Moore's scripts.

You know, like he, I feel like he, he got one really killer movie and then he got three that are uneven is what I would say.

Like I, I feel like if there's one way to describe, kindly describe tomorrow never dies, the world is not enough and die another day.

It's uneven and kind of like the pavement in Charlotte.

Some days it can be a little uneven and you never know what you're going to get out of them.

But yeah, but I think, I think we both, we we all have the same things that Brosnan's in our top end of things.

And so, Anton, I'd love to hear from you because you've got him higher than us, but what about him is second for you behind Connor?

I mean, I think the biggest thing just has to it's, it's very, it's a personal decision.

And the fact that growing up in the 90s and the early 2000s, this was the Bond that I identified with.

I mean, especially when you think of this film and the plot and how it feels like what new media, late nineties, 2000s.

So I, I, I feel like for me, like Pierce Brosnan also just touches on that nostalgic spot of what was the 90s and the 2000s to me.

And of course, that was Pierce Brosnan is my James Bond.

Yeah, toys were great for kids meals at any fast food place, and Eddie Murphy was on top.

So I feel like there there's just, there's just so many things that I can point out to to really, you know, you know, signal that nostalgia.

But Pierce Brosnan for me, as James Bond was, it was a big part of that.

And and that's fair, I think you both have mentioned there's a nostalgic quality about this movie that keeps you coming back to it that you've liked.

And so we'll get into that as we get more into it because we'll do this folks, and listen to filmstrip the way we've done the other Bond movies.

We'll kind of follow that same little fun formula.

But as always here, and much like the, you know, the script of this movie, none of it's nailed in stump as we know.

So let me get into the Plot Summary though here and throw this through the old chat JPT machine as I like to say these days, and to tell you that tomorrow never dies as the Bond movie where journalism kills literally GPS lies and Pierce Brosnan proves once again a tuxedo can survive anything, even the 24 hour news cycle.

So when media mogul Elliot Carver, played by Jonathan Pryce, he's got this bold business plan.

I'm going to start World War Three to boost TV ratings and sell more newspapers because who needs subscriptions when you can get nuclear engagement numbers?

Guys, how?

Well, I'm going to use stealth ships and Agps trick to make China and the UK think they've attacked each other when it's really me doing it all along.

So enter James Bond, who sent in to stop the media from literally creating its own headlines.

And along the way, he tangles with Paris Carver, who's Elliot Carver's wife, who he also happens to have had a thing with, because of course he has.

His investigation leads him to Weyland, played by Michelle Yo, a Chinese super spy so confident she makes Bond look like he's still in training with Q Together they form an uneasy alliance on top of motorcycle that she could have easily unlocked herself from at any time.

We'll get there.

Trading gadgets kicks quips as they try to stop the stealth ship and after plenty of machine gun acrobatics, motorcycle stunts through Saigon and explosions that seem to occur every time someone says satellite uplink Bond and Waylon infiltrate the stealth ship and Carver still, you know, printing Peacock like on his at a board meeting tries to narrate his own death scene until Bond interrupts him with a giant drill.

The sink.

The ship sinks, the world is saved and Bond and Wayland share to the traditional we survived the third act explosion embrace and that is the plot of tomorrow never dies.

Like I said, we'll get into it.

But let's start as these movies always start with the setup and the cold open and Bond is at the terrorist arms bazaar on the Russian border.

We're still post Cold War, so we're not really sure who the villains are anymore in the world, right.

But he's, he discovers 2 nuclear torpedoes aboard a jet, which this feels like it could be next door to the opening of where Gold and Eye happened with the the flashback with, you know, the Trevelyan and all that stuff.

Yeah, very similar landscape.

Not quite as big of a stunt to open the film, right?

Just.

But not to say that there weren't any very big set pieces for the opening.

Just no.

No iconic stunt to open the film.

Where?

On the Russian border?

That's pretty big.

Yeah, I know that's that's a long way.

That's like, yeah, saying the California border or something, or the Texas border.

I have to say now, when it opens with the quote a terrorist arms, bizarre Russian border, it, it implies parity.

It's like something you'd expect to see in like the Naked Gun.

Yeah, yeah, it's very, it very much does.

And the way that the opening scene where he's basically flying the jet literally from the seat of his pants while he's being strangled and shot at by another jet felt very hot shots, you know, and kind of thing.

I can see that.

Yeah, it did.

9 year old Pat ate it up.

Oh yeah, but.

66 year old Anton was watching Hercules.

Also a fair thing to be watching at that point.

Well, I can tell you that I guess 20 year old me at that point had questions then and the same ones I have now.

The guy in the back is trying to kill the the, the guy who stolen the plane in the front while his friend is trying to shoot them both.

Like there's no radio communications.

There's not like, hey, don't shoot at me.

I'm trying to kill this man.

It's, I don't know, I'm not supposed to think that much about it, but it is kind of stupid so.

I'm curious about how the bazaar works.

Do you think Gupta pre-ordered the GPS encoder or was he just browsing?

I know, like, how do you know that's going to be there?

Isn't it a catalog?

Does he call them up like, hey, can you hold it for me?

I'll.

Give you an.

Advance.

10,000 rubies or whatever.

How many do you have?

He had to fax it.

Also all the facts true, but also what currency are we doing here because this is pre EUR, right.

So like, what do we what do you accept?

You take Amex I mean so not.

Bitcoin.

The Russian resort, they hadn't been invented yet, right?

So.

So that's an.

Interesting character for a lot of reasons.

Yeah, I feel like this was part of somehow this was all going to tie in more than it did.

It may be an early script and you can tell me if it's in the novelization and it's just one of the many things that got chopped and and your microwave back through this thing as they were making it.

The novelization goes a little bit more into it.

It's basically it's one of like 23 GPS encoders and it goes missing and they've been looking for it.

So they were kind of implying that the setup for this mission is that the Americans and their allies are are subtly trying to find the missing encoder.

Right, which also feels a lot like, well, you know, Spy Who Love Me and For your eyes only because that's part of the the encoder is part of the setup of that one too, with the ship sinks in the minefield and all that stuff.

The A tech.

Yeah, the a tech, yes, Thank you.

I couldn't think of it, which also, well, that was my first introduction to what computer graphics could do to a face when they make the guy's face on that one by the way, so just.

Oh yeah, the identograph.

Yeah, the identity.

Oh goodness, you can.

Bake a pizza in that thing.

Now the giant floppy disks.

Yes, and now, now, you know, you watch the FBI show Paramount or whatever and it's just, it's just part of life.

It's you know, they can do it at all times.

But back in those days.

But no, we have, we have the open and you know, we've seen Bond fly jets and stuff.

That's nothing new and all that, but I do, I do think it's funny that he ejects the guy into the other jet as a way of blowing it up or like that's that's at least fun.

That's that felt, Bond felt very Roger Moore, actually.

You see everything too, not only it's a clean, it's, it's a clean entrance into the other jet and you see him seated in the back and then it explodes.

So there's there's comedic timing involved.

It's definitely entertaining and I have to say there's a number of digital effects in this film in in particular the pre title sequence that really hold up.

Yeah, it's really bad.

So it it's very good so.

We're clowning on it, but yeah, it, it's a pretty exciting pre title sequence I enjoy.

It for for 97 this rocks.

I mean, it does, it's what it is, is it's fun and I'll say that about this movie is that at no time do I feel like it wastes my time.

You know it's under 2 hours, which is rare for a Bond movie.

Great, great pacing here.

Yeah, they really.

Don't waste a lot of time like I'll.

I'll say it now.

My biggest problem if the world is not enough is that it just drags, you know?

There's just points to that movie where it's just nothing happened, you know, and.

It's I'm glad you mentioned that Jay, cuz I was watching World's Not enough kind of recently and I never thought I'd say this.

Too much action, like too many set pieces.

Just two.

It's like they didn't have enough this time, so they double down on the third one.

The Bond series does this a lot where they will take ideas for set pieces that they didn't get to use in prior films and try to recycle them in future films.

World is not enough as a big offender of that.

Yeah.

I would agree, but it is fun and it does lead us to a very striking opening title sequence like that.

It the look of that.

I'm glad you called it out that it looks tremendous.

Sheryl Crow.

Where are we on that one, fellas?

Sheryl Crow, It was a good decision at the time.

She was the thing.

She was the moment.

Yeah, Yeah.

But this song is not in my top end of the world.

The font songs, I'm going to tell you it's pretty lounge singer Vegas.

I don't hate it, it's not like low low low tier, but it's just not inspired for me.

I don't I don't know that Sheryl Crow's voice and aesthetic fits with this song is trying to be.

She can't hit the notes.

No, she doesn't have that kind of powerful.

Like you can even hear her straining it and it's like this does what she does, you know?

Yeah, there's no double O 7 like light motif into the song that I think could have tied it nicely.

It's not iconic enough on its own to really make you remember it for years on end.

Just just kind of like if I'm standing in an elevator and.

Elevator music.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll zag here.

I actually really like the song.

Really.

OK, yes.

Now I don't like it as much as Surrender, the song that plays in the end credits and the melody of which we hear predominantly throughout the film score, right?

But I do like this title song.

I like the title sequence even better.

I.

Like what Daniel Kleiman did here a lot.

Yeah, if if you had the KD Lang song with the visuals, I think it would be so much better because you come off a very fun open yes.

And then you bring into this, like I said, this kind of lounge act going on.

You got all the iconography, microchips and printing press on, which is fine because that's it's part of the motif of these things and it looks great again.

But the song just drags it for me at the KD Lang song is so much so much better.

It was definitely a mistake and you know it was a last minute addition because they at the, you know, at the 11th hour, the studio was like Sheryl Crow's a bigger name than Katie Lang.

Let's put this song in and it is kind of a let down.

I know what you mean because the pre title sequence contains the surrender melody in it.

So it's like.

Teeing us up for the song and then we don't get it.

Yeah, and then it goes another way and and you're coming off of Tina Turner and U2, you know, basically into Sheryl Crow.

I mean, in some some ways, you know, the Bond series has done this a lot as they try to get the star of the moment and put them in.

But I'm sort of the mind sometimes just get the right song and it'll make the people like they'll be fine with it.

You know, like you got to.

It's it's a hard balance to strike because you know, not, not everything can be, you know, something as big and bold as like, you know, Goldfinger or, or as in the moment is like a view to a kill was, you know, with Duran Duran and and that late 80s Euro pop stuff.

That's an awesome, awesome song.

I.

Mean it.

It's interesting like like Diamonds are Forever is my favorite, but the film tied to it.

Of course.

Not great, but.

But the song is great.

But the song is great.

And Speaking of just like song quality, I think, I mean, part of this also is just the politics of the Golden Globe Awards.

But I mean, it did get nominated.

So yeah, it did, yeah.

Yeah, it did.

It did.

This is true.

But I also feel like that was, I don't, I don't remember a lot of Yeah, well, you know what, it got nominated.

But we we talked about it in 1997 was also Titanic.

And so nothing was, nothing was going to touch.

That only one thing was winning that year.

That you couldn't escape that song, much like you couldn't escape the boat.

See, look at me getting all nostalgic for the 90s as we talk about.

It well, you know what now I really want to watch Titanic.

It's been a minute, but that fun factor just since we're doing behind the scenes stuff that was like one of the finalists in the poll for episode 400 when we did our big Jurassic Park show was down between that and Titanic and wow, Jurassic Park.

So have you covered?

Titanic.

We have not because we, we, we put things on that pole that we, we've narrowed it down once and then we put it out on like Twitter and Instagram and your face for all that stuff and people voted on it and that's when it, you know, came back through.

But we put stuff on there we had never done and that one that came up as we had never done it.

So but that that's a long time.

Stay tuned.

I'm sure we'll get around to it some point here, but because it was well.

I'll, I'll if you ever need gas for that.

Oh.

Yeah, we would not be opposed.

Oh yeah, we'll definitely bring you out for that.

But but again, nothing was going to touch that song, so.

And how could you could it not?

I mean, some of it fitting A motif throughout a a movie and then just rolling right into the pop song at the end of it.

It's it's perfect.

So.

With especially when we think of the legend that is Céline Dion that will always be attached to that.

Indeed.

And you know what?

I I really think about it, even if I don't love this song.

Sheryl Crow, again, for the moment, huge star in the late 90s.

It also could have been Reba.

I'll just say that you could have had Reba.

Could have been that would have worked too.

Shania Twain wouldn't have been a bad choice in like.

Maybe those are bad, maybe Shania Twain's better, but.

It's just disappointing when they don't use the song's melody in the score.

Yeah, Goldeneye has the same problem.

I really like the Goldeneye title song.

It's not used in the score at all.

Just only the little clicks at the beginning.

Yeah.

But yeah, well, and the composers would tell you that was all they could.

Like this is all they could do.

There's one.

There, that Goldeneye score is a bit of an odd duck.

I don't know if you want to talk about the score now or later for this.

We can go into it now.

That's fine.

Yeah, we're on.

We're talking about the song anyway.

Is it a good good enough time to talk about the score?

It's my favorite thing about the film.

I never thought I'd found myself saying this because they tried to bring John Barry back to score this film and they weren't able to do the deal.

And that's how David Arnold got hired, because Barry recommended him.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, Anton, this may shock you.

I'm glad David Arnold was the right composer for this.

I think the score is fantastic.

I don't.

That doesn't shock me.

Listen like listening to it with a rewatch, I really enjoyed it and I thought to myself, Pat's going to love this not only for the reason that it's a pretty banging score, but well, Pat, you know, do you know what David Arnold also worked on score wise?

The film the.

Partners Day.

It's a there's a no, there's a much more important film that we talked about recently.

Recently.

Oh yeah, came up in conversation like, you know what?

This one probably is the best in the series.

Oh, another hint Too fast to furious.

Got to be come back too fast.

Did he really?

Do that, Jay.

There we go.

Well, all I can say is stay tuned for terrible slash terrific twos in February here on full strip where that one will be discussed.

So that movie's awesome.

Oh, it is so fast.

Lindsay's Brian, who occasionally comes on the show is a big fast and furious guys, so we're going to have him to talk about that.

But you know what, you mentioned it.

We talked about the pace of this movie, the fact that he did Independence Day, the 98 Matthew Broderick, Godzilla and two Fast 2 Furious plus shaft.

Like it fits the motif for this movie like this.

This movie doesn't take a breath and you got to have somebody that can do a score that doesn't really take a breath.

So another reason I don't I don't like the song is I I wanted something that didn't take a breath, you know, with it.

I felt like it needed because we had the low key song.

Like I know they've always done that, but a lot of times.

But this would have been the time to have something that had a little more punch to it.

Though I'm trying to think who in 1997 would have been we could get the Spice Girls.

Like I don't know what you would have gotten because rock music was garbage at that point, but not not mainstream enough.

So.

The Smashing Pumpkins.

Man, Can you imagine that?

Like just for a minute I.

I like The Smashing Pumpkins a lot, but I don't know how that would have worked for a Bond movie.

Third Eye Blind.

You can get Steven Jenkins to try to.

They were too busy contributing to the Batman and Robin soundtrack.

My gosh, yes, they were.

I have that soundtrack somewhere on a tape around here.

So yeah, I don't know.

He would have got that.

Would have been as big of a deal to get or so I guess you could have gone completely to the other side and got like ditty or something, but you know that.

Would have aged bad.

That would have aged.

That would have aged.

Bad.

Maybe seal.

I think there's a Batman theme.

Yeah, there's Batman and Robin, though.

He was doing, he was doing Gotham City with R Kelly and all that stuff.

So we talk about aging bad.

But anyway, yeah.

But no, I, I, I agree with you that the score of this is one of its triumphs because it does fit the pace really well.

Like, I always knew this was one of the shorter bonds in terms of run length, but I never like, looked at it as I realized it's under two hours and you get the credits out.

It's really short.

And I remember thinking at the time when I saw it in theaters, I was like, aren't these usually about 1/2 hour longer?

You know, like more or less that they're too.

They became that.

And then and then they became those, you know, 3 hour monstrosities that we can't do that, but who knows what the next one will be.

But yeah, this moves quickly.

And that's not a bad thing necessarily.

So we got to also talk about the other part of the the open there too, or the the way that it go or the with the the inciting incident, I guess you will is that you got this these two ships that what you know, the the torpedo.

That's also the drill at the same time.

And I love the little animatic of the drill.

Just going through the show, that film bear video that.

Drill the sea.

Drill, yes, yes.

I got a kick out of the drill though.

I thought it was cool at the time and I still think it's a pretty cool like Hitch man.

It's Chekhov's drill.

I have questions about how it works.

It looks like a Tremors got into the same machine that made Uber Jason and Jason X and turned it into the drill.

What do they need it for other than to just sink the deventure?

It's like it has one purpose, right?

So if if all they need it for is to just sink the ship, why don't they just use a regular torpedo?

I they, there's some dropped line in there about how if they used actual like armament, they'd be able to be traced back based on the way that it.

Because none of the countries that are attacking each other use the same explosive package in a torpedo, which is dumb.

Nobody outside the Navy knows that.

So I'm like, you could have just shot it, but.

They're also banking on no one will be able to find the wreck of the Devonshire because they think it's sank over here.

But we did our little GPS bullshit and actually sank over here.

Yes, well, look, in 1997, it wasn't hard to trick Agps.

You put your hand over the antenna, you might wind up in Wisconsin.

So, so, but I like that as a as a a conceit of new technology, right, That you've got this, these people that are manipulating this.

That's why it's it's always wild to me that this turns out to be a newspaper magnet that is doing this.

Because at the time I was in journalism school and I worked for a newspaper, and I couldn't imagine any of those people like, I don't know, getting the typeset, not offline, much less doing some of the stuff that goes down in this movie.

Something I want to point out about the cedro and I want to know if either of you noticed this.

It is also responsible for, in my opinion, the laziest, worst special effect shot in the entire James Bond series, maybe that I've ever seen in any film ever.

Which shot is it?

OK, when it hits the ship, there's a clang and you see sparks.

It's supposed to be underwater.

There's none of the fox.

It's right after.

What's his name?

The henchman.

What is the stereotype?

Yeah, it's it is right after he very cartoonishly goes knock knock and it clangs against the ship and you see sparks.

The clang I would buy the sparks I see.

I can see what it is.

If you freeze frame it in the film, it is very clear they did not film the model shot underwater.

It's just a slap together.

Are we?

Wow, are we, are we, are we shocked with the speed at which they made this film?

No, I'm actually surprised it doesn't look more like the end of Jaws, the revenge from 10 years prior.

That's how fast they threw it together.

And it's not that bad a model work.

It's every time I see it I laugh out loud.

It is.

Well, you talk about laughing.

Stamper is hilarious to me.

We're going to get to him in a little bit.

Stamper.

That guy cracks me up.

He's horrible, but he knows he is, and that's what makes it so delicious.

We'll get to him in a little bit.

Because has like a nouveau jaws.

Wow.

They missed on that one.

They did.

Yeah.

But the whole point is you've got this stealth ship, which looks like one of the cooler GI Joe vehicles that you never got to own, but that you saw in the cartoon, right?

Because you can just throw rockets out.

It shoots a big down, which anybody knows anything about.

Like jet pilots, like surface to air missiles are one of the like, if you see it, you can just get away from it.

Like it's not that hard to outrun because they don't have a lot of range and the jet is 3 times as fast as the thing and twice as maneuverable.

So it's in the wild that the Chinese pilot is like, oh shit, rocket.

And then all of a sudden he's just vaporized, you know, out of the sky.

But we have to make it seem like, OK, you know, we, we, you know, the Devonshire got a shot off before it went down.

So now we're going to have a war between the UK and China.

And of course, he's all over it.

Carver is the funniest thing to me is watching Jonathan Pryce do his whole routine in this and the way he's typing with one hand where he's just barely fluttering on the keyboard, kind of like what I'm doing right now.

And he's just, he's just exposition.

It's it's if you've ever seen his rendition of The Engineer and Miss Saigon, it reminded me very much of that.

It's the same kind of energy.

I I love Jonathan Pryce.

I always feel like I enjoy him in everything I see.

It's so funny when watching his energy in this film.

And I feel like there was maybe subconsciously he was like, I'm going to try to do an Anthony Hopkins thing.

And because of course, you know, Anthony Hopkins originally tied to, you know, play Carver.

And I feel like there was just some a bit of that like it, almost like a subdued maniacal insanity.

Do we know why Hawkins dropped out of this?

Yeah, so the original director of course was the same as Goldeneye, who then left to go work on a particular film called The Mask of Zorro, who who went along with him, of course, but.

I actually like that movie, by the way.

As an aside, that's a that's a fun movie.

Catherine Zeta Jones and another fun.

Anthony Banderas, Antonio Banderas.

That's a very fun movie.

Yeah, so.

Hopkins was on set for one day, Oh wow, for this film.

And then he, he, it was the script stuff.

OK.

He was like, wait, how?

You don't have a finished script?

I'm out of here.

Well, I don't blame him at that point.

Yeah, I'm not.

I'm going to do Hearts of Atlantis later.

Yeah, well, this is man also did the Transformers 1 where they're like Knights and Stonehenge and stuff.

So he's he's.

Not afraid of work.

At some point it became about the tracks man.

So, but this point he still had dignity.

So I ain't going to do it.

But I, I, I didn't put that together.

But the mask is or, but that makes a lot of sense because I I love that one.

But Jonathan Pryce is fun in this role because I'm with you, Anton.

He's hamming it up, but in a way that I kind of want Bond villain to ham it up because we had, I don't know if I feel like like Trevellian was so serious.

And part of that is just the Sean Bean of all of it.

But you can't do that again.

So you go in the other direction with the Bond village.

They've got to be like, fun and big.

Visually, I was reminded a lot of like Steve Jobs, which I think this predated the turtleneck look for Jobs at least, like on the larger cultural stage.

I think that was maybe like the look when it was the iPod release or, sorry, the no, yeah, the iPhone release.

But yeah, I know this was just a very different take on a Bond build, which, you know, for some it's not all everyone's cup of tea.

Well, I mean, I my Jonathan Pryce memories go back to he did.

He was in this Ray Bradbury adaptation that either like Showtime or HBO did when I was young with Jason Robards cut something wicked this way comes and he's so creepy and so good that if I haven't revisited that recently, I'd recommend it as a as just one to watch because it's I think it's gotten forgotten in the pantheon of all the thriller horror stuff.

But it's a really good and he's incredible in it, but he's so much younger in it, you know, then it's 15 years.

He looks like a totally different person, but he's pretty amazing.

It is this wizard warlock thing, you know, whatever.

But in in this, he's the same thing.

He's just a businessman.

But the whole, the whole idea here is, and this is I'll give the bond group credit is with all the scripts that they have with the idea of 24 hour news cycle media is not a good thing.

And especially in the hands of a publicly traded company, you know, or, or, you know, investors and people with money and stuff like that, that it's going to influence it in a wrong way.

And it's, it's a little ham fested, but it kind of works.

I mean, again, I was in J school at the time, so I I bought it, you know?

Yeah, I don't know, Pat.

Pat, what's your what's your take on it all?

He's maybe my least favorite villain in the whole series.

Really.

Yeah.

I, I, I, I don't like his performance.

I don't like how the characters written.

He's completely insane.

There's no subtlety.

That's 'cause he's John of the price though.

Yeah, We don't really know why he's doing what he's doing other than he's just insane, which doesn't follow Bond villain logic for me, you know, and you compare it to, well, Trevelyan is a good example, right?

He had a real back story.

He had a very fleshed out motivation for why he was doing what he was doing.

And the film that comes after This World is Not Enough with Electric King again has this really fleshed out back story.

Harbor has nothing.

Electric King Hall so years later would refer to as like the James Bond version of Talia Ogol.

But right, Right.

Who again?

But that's a real back story.

Carver doesn't have anything.

He's just all I want exclusive broadcast rights in China for the next 100 years.

Well, does it?

Make any sense at all?

Which is weird, which is weird.

I think like when we look at the production or at least like even like the studio, I guess like checklist on paper, a more grounded quote UN quote grounded villain as part of what they were looking for, but still within the sphere of Bond which.

I you know, they.

It wasn't a.

They've had the maniacal businessman, you know, several times.

They have.

Even Hugo Drax had a very clear motivation for doing what?

He's doing.

We really don't we.

Don't get an explanation for why Elliot Carver is doing this other than he's just insane.

They give you an explanation.

It's just not a good one and it's a one word ratings, as you said, all the time.

But why?

Why does he want?

It's just nuts.

Yeah, but one could argue he he one could argue he wouldn't need to.

He didn't need to do everything in the film to get his ratings.

I agree.

Well, right, that also begs the question, how does starting World War Three help him and his media company if there's a nuclear because he they're going to nuke Beijing, right, That's a nuclear.

Cruise OK, look, let's let's let's be clear.

I was watching, I'm watching the film and I think to myself, what is what is a real travesty here?

Why is he such a villain?

It's because of his failed marriage with Teri Hatcher.

OK, that's what it that's.

Very possible.

It's it's like he's just like, I'm insane.

This is not working out.

I need to find a way for her to pay attention to me.

Right, so I'm going to, I'm going to make China and the UK, where neither of us are from, attack each other.

So one one of the also one of my other issues with this film's plot, and I don't want to be too negative on this because you can you can go through Bond movie plots and you start pulling the.

Yarn.

But one of the things, it's not just a plot.

I think it is this film.

A disservice is that unlike Goldeneye in World is Not Enough, the two films that bookend this, there is no sense of mystery here.

Within minutes after the pre title sequence, we know who the bad guy is, what he's doing.

Now think about Goldeneye.

Bond is tasked with going after who stole this helicopter, find out what they want to find out what they're doing with Goldeneye and stop them.

And we don't actually get the Trevelyan reveal till an hour into the film.

Yeah, same thing in World is not Enough right where you're like, you think that Renard is back to extract, extract revenge on Elektra.

You don't know what he's up to.

But this film, within minutes after the pre title sequence ends, we know that it's Carver, we know he's on the stealth boat, we know he's trying to start the war.

There's not a lot of mystery to it.

No, and on one hand, that's what is part of the fleetness of the of the film and stuff.

It's also that feels like stuff that got chopped out of the multiple scripts that they had going with this deal.

So I I don't disagree with you that he's not particularly motivated or doesn't make sense what his motivation is.

I don't know that I would put him in the as the worst feeling of the Bond films.

But as I sit here and run them in my head, I'm going all right, but who's the above?

And it's a short list.

Maybe the guy from dying the other day, like, but he had a reason.

It was a dumb one.

It was dumb.

He had a reason.

No offense hands on, but yeah, he had.

A Colonel Santon Moon a.

Little.

A little.

Turn into the ginger guy.

Gustav Graves.

Yes.

Oh my gosh, I just rewatched that too and I don't remember any of the characters.

It's it's, it's rock bottom.

Yeah, Well, I don't know.

Little did we know Gone Girl would have a career after that, because you did that in the Doom movie.

And I was like, this chick's never doing anything so well.

So like a lot of people, she got rescued by David Fincher.

You talked about it.

Let's talk about the Bond girls.

Let's talk about Paris Carver specifically.

Teri Hatcher was on a heater in 1997, like Lois and Clark was massive.

She had been in Heavenly Creatures and some other stuff.

She was just this gorgeous woman and I know Bond characters get short shrift sometimes is and stuff.

This may be the most underwritten female character ever in a Bond movie.

That's say it's something like, I really think there's almost nothing to her other than I used to bang James Bond.

Now I bang Elliot Carver and I'm going to die the next scene.

Like she's intrusive.

In it for the star power and that's probably about it I.

Guess yeah.

Another studio interference.

It was probably going to be Monica Bellucci.

I can buy that.

She screen tested with Brosnan, they all liked her and the studio was like well Teri Hatcher's on this popular show, you should cast her instead.

They have no chemistry together at all.

Like I like Teri Hatcher and I like Pierce Brosnan, but and then maybe they got along fine.

I'm sure they're friends, but they have nothing together.

They did not get along.

They didn't.

OK, she didn't.

She didn't want to be on set.

No, she's she's she had just closed adventures of Lois and Clark, like literally like the week before and then she was pregnant on set for while filming this.

So she's like, I didn't even want to be here.

Oh.

My gosh, I mean, he's got more with the Danish woman he's making out with in the beginning, who shows a lot more skin than you usually get in the James Bond movie.

Not to be a horn dog, but I was like, oh, I forgot that good point.

But but I was like, well, why couldn't we get hurt?

Like, at least they've got something going there together.

You.

Know Bryan Adams girlfriend?

That was Bryan Adams girlfriend, yes.

Did not know.

That another potential Bond girl, actually.

There's a lot of Canada in this that we haven't talked about, and Roger Spots was responsible for all of it, I think, But yeah, so.

Can we talk about him later?

Yes.

Oh yeah, we're going to get.

There like you know who we get need to get to direct our $100 million Bond movie?

The guy that did Turner and Hooch.

And wrote 48 hours.

Or what was it?

Stop or my mom will shoot.

Wasn't that a later qualified?

Yeah.

So still.

Yeah, that's not it's not the name I would have thought you'd go with, but again, one of those last changes.

But OK, I'm glad to hear we're all in agreement.

I wondered if I was going to get pushed back on that.

That Teri Hatcher is terrible.

No, she stinks.

And it doesn't help that they're trying to present her as this woman that James Bond really cares about.

And there's this melodramatic history that we're really trying to sell and it it does not work at.

All there's none of it.

Yeah.

I mean, it would have been different if it was just one of his flings, you know, and he it was an asset and then wanted to die because he's not a complete piece of trash.

But you know, I, I, I bought none of the story about them.

He had more chemistry with Vincent Chevelle than Assassin than he did with with with Terry Hatcher.

Which is one of the best scenes?

Oh that that dude is given a capital P performance in this.

Incredible.

I think he's my favorite character in the film.

He's.

So good.

Why couldn't he have just been stamper?

You know, like.

What does he say?

That one line, He's like, believe me, Mr.

Bond, I could shoot you from Stuttgart and Stutt creates the proper effect.

Yeah, I I love all of the I love the way he goes down too.

I'm just doing my job, so am IA thing.

But yes, that's what James Bond does so I.

I it's, I wonder how much of that was ad libbed or he's like all this stuff.

Did you did you call the auto club?

I I guarantee you 90% of that was him going.

This script is there's not even a script.

I'm just going to go.

The dialogue and the novelization during the scene very different.

Oh, I'm sure.

Yeah.

It's not very different.

So yeah, no, I mean, I, but I, I loved him and that, I mean, I, I hated Terry Hatcher had to die, but obviously she was also Pierce Brosnan, oddly enough, makes out with her cheek when she's dead on the bed and saying goodbye to her.

But OK, I'm trying to sell that that.

Trying to be sentimental but you know, it comes off as a little weird.

Film's got some tonal shifts that don't work.

Which is interesting because the whole exchange is just very quirky and hilarious.

And then it it hard pivot to I did this for you, Teri Hatcher.

Right.

Yeah.

And then and I can get you out of here.

No, you can't.

He has the showdown with Doctor Kaufman, then we get 30 seconds of the English Patient and then within 3 minutes he is remote controlled driving his BMW with his shit eating grin on his face in the parking.

Garage it is like all over the place with that Ericsson phone.

Oh man, the the well, there's lots of product placement in these movies all the time, but that's definitely a gadget we'll get back to.

But we got to shift though, and talk about the other Bond girl real quick because she's the spy who loves him and just the Wayla and Michelle Young now.

I think this was a a big introduction for her to American audiences.

So it was it's definitely something that got her on the radar.

And of course, now, you know, she's well known and tons of things.

She's in the new Wicked that's out now I guess is worth putting this out and stuff.

So a venerable star.

But I'll give her this because I didn't know who she was at all.

You know, I just heard like, oh, this Hong Kong action star is going to be in this way.

OK, cool.

Sure.

And I thought with given what she was given to do in it and how she again drops in and out of the movie, she does a lot with it.

Like, she's still Barbara Barb, but she's pretty good.

Yeah, she's great.

She's one of my favorite things in the film.

I'm also a little biased because I'm a huge Michelle Yo fan.

When you look at this, this is the film that really opened up like western films for her, right?

This.

And of course, then a few years later, we get Crouching Tiger.

Yeah.

And so that's massive for her.

And I mean, you, you said it, Jay, Like she's I I want to say probably it was since Everything Everywhere All at Once.

After that, it's just every film has to have Michelle Yeoh, it feels like.

But she was in stuff for years between after this.

And like you say, Crouching Tiger really put her on the map and then she was in just, you know, whatever she wanted to do.

But it's a good introduction for her because again, she, you, when you pair somebody with Bond and they're going to be his, you know, equal or his counterpart, you know, in these things, it's always a push and pull as to how overpowered they can be compared to James Bond in a in a movie.

And I feel like they they get the balance of that right, which is surprising considering how many different like versions of the story existed when they were going with it that they were able to keep that because I don't know what the story is behind.

And maybe Pat, you know, but I feel like her and Brosnan definitely got on well and they seem to really play well off of each other.

They did get on and they're still friends and you can you can really tell like there's there's clips you can find of them on YouTube like fairly recently, like in public together and it's clear that they still get on with one another.

I think they have really good chemistry in this film.

She is certainly one of the highlights of this film.

She's one of my favorite all time Bond girls because you know, is it is her character as well developed as Triple X and the Spy Who Loved me?

No, not at all.

And I wish she had been.

I wish the writing had served her better, but she certainly makes the most of it.

She gets to kick ass in a few scenes.

She brought in her own stunt team for a couple of the scenes in Saigon.

You know, in her little like safe house thing.

That was her stunt team that she beats up.

Really cool that looked.

Like, like something that she brought to the production because I don't think Rodger Spotters would have had that in the bag.

He did not.

No.

That was all her and her stunt team and, and you can tell.

And frankly, I mean I I wish we had gotten more from her.

Yeah, she brings a different Bond girl energy to the film and it's she's a very capable martial artist, very capable stunt performer.

Not that she got to actually perform a ton of her own stunts for this particular film, but I think what's really nice is it also brings a wider audience globally because of course, she's way more well known out East, and I'm not talking Philly and so so.

Yeah, no, no, you're, you're 100% right.

And that they do go there, even though I I will say her and Brosnan do get the most unsexy and maybe unnecessary shower scene I've ever seen in the movie together where they're rubbing soap on each other's clothes.

I get it.

They're like, she's probably like, no, I ain't doing that.

And they're like, OK, cool.

Well, will you wear a white T-shirt at least?

Sure.

Why are we taking a shower in the street again?

Get that dirty on the motorcycle.

She's pretty unique for Bond girls too, because if you really think about it and check me if I'm wrong on this, so this film is almost 30 years old.

She has to be the exception for actresses who have portrayed Bond girl.

She is more popular now than ever, certainly more popular now than she was when this film came out.

I don't know if you can say the same for any other actress who's been in a Bond movie.

But I'd have to think about it going through that.

I don't know, Eva Green's a pretty big star still.

She had like Peaky Blinders and.

But not like Michelle.

Yo, Michelle, Yo's an Oscar winner, Yeah.

Her career I think is also just very unique.

It is where her where it's almost like she had such a huge peak early on in her career, but then it catapulted again late in her career, which I got the right.

Thing yeah, she had her.

She had a rebound pretty recently.

I mean the only one I could think of as like maybe Halle Berry, but Halle Berry was more popular in 2002 than she is now.

Right.

Yeah, Yeah.

She was a bigger deal in the in the arts than she was.

Yeah.

Now.

So yeah, that's not a bad, a bad catch.

I mean, she definitely got the she's in her mid 30s and she makes this movie her early 30s.

Really, and Brosnan's like in his early 40s and they both look great and you know, but I mean, again, they have a ton of chemistry together.

So it, it I, and because they're both really good and I think they understand what the assignment is, not like what's not there or whatever.

They're both able to actually do something with it.

Because you got to remember, like, I know Brosnan's only had one Bond film, but he's technically tried to play James Bond for about 10 years at this point.

So he knows the character really, really well.

And it's, it's one of the better things when they finally got it.

And clearly she realized, hey, this is my shot, you know, to go westward.

So I, I got to make the most out of this.

And look, the thing was huge and it did get her on the screen.

So I like her a lot.

I really do like Waylon.

I like how she comes in and out of stuff.

I I didn't know she didn't do a lot of her own stunts.

I thought she would have in this.

But they do a good job covering it and she looks good and all the cover stuff on it.

So she's fun.

I do like to that the way that they tag team up against the villains in the in the boat at the end, you know, they each take out their own personal problems of people and stuff that always works.

You know, we we talked about Carver a good bit and the fact that what his entire motivation is or his reason for doing things doesn't come with motivation.

So it's just we have to accept it.

But I do like Jonathan Pryce.

I think he's fun in it because I think he realized this is bullshit.

And so I'm just going to at least be fun and because and he went with that, you know, so I'll give him credit for that.

We talked about Kaufman, but we we goes by, we got to talk about Stamper, Mr.

Stamper.

Stamper.

Wow, yeah, this guy looks like a villain from a Beverly Hills Cop movie, right?

It was a very on the nose what his what his henchman name indicated, Right.

He stuck on stuff, Yes.

Yeah.

He definitely looks like the kind of guy who would try to sell you drugs in a club.

I I took him also as this is one of the sparring partners for Yvonne Drago.

He could be that.

Like a stunt double.

Yeah, he could be a stunt double because he does have kind of the Drago, you know, flat top going on.

But he's, I mean, he is the quintessential Bond, Bond villain, main henchman.

You know, he can.

He's got all those souped up power.

He's he's not as insane as the one in Tomorrow Never Dies.

He like can't feel pain or some nonsense.

So he's like he's always on PC.

Oh, the world is not enough.

Yeah, world is not enough.

That sort of.

Yeah, Renard.

Yeah, Renard.

Yeah, that guy, that guy.

OK, it's funny you mention that.

Yeah, because in the novelization, Stamper has pain and pleasure nerve sensors that are reversed.

So any, any type of pain you give him will cause him pleasure and vice versa.

Now obviously that is not in the finished film.

So he's Hellraiser is what you're saying?

Basically, pretty much yes.

And it seems like you brought up Renard.

It's like they brought the pain thing back for the World is Not enough.

The same screenwriter, so yeah.

Or the main one I should?

Say, yeah, it's they the Bond.

Like I said, Bond recycles ideas all the time.

That was one that might have been left that left in the bin.

It worked for either one.

Yeah, I mean, if like just to briefly talk about world is not enough and you probably agree with this, that's a really cool idea.

They do nothing interesting with it in that.

Yeah, No, not at all.

Yeah, the way he goes down, it's just like, that's it.

Yeah.

So.

And then he ends up just being a bit more 1 dimensional, which is, you know, it's fine.

He doesn't have to have a lot to it, but it's it's the fact that he's so I don't think he understood that you can have a little tongue in cheek with this man, like have a little fun with it.

He's like he's having any fun, you know, like Benson Chevelli's having a lot of fun.

You know, Jonathan Price having a ton of fun.

Teri Hatcher and and Gotts Otto are not having any fun of this script.

I don't.

I don't.

Know that he had the acting chops to do it.

He looked like, I honestly thought I was like, did you guys call Tony Scott and get one of his like hair models to come and do this?

Because this this what this dude looks like so.

He's like the the reason why I don't like him at all as a character.

He's like the sixth version of this, right?

He's we've seen Red Grant, we've seen the guy and you only live twice.

We've seen the guy into your eyes.

Only the it's maybe not the six, but like we've already seen this kind of Uber blonde, muscle bound henchman 4 or 500 necros in the living daylights.

We've already seen this guy 5 or 6 times and by the time he's the most he's the least interesting of them all.

Yeah, there's not a lot of personality or anything quite unique.

But can we give credit him for his travel skills?

He's a great chief of staff.

You know this film takes place over the course of 48 hours, right?

Right.

Yeah, that's why.

He gets.

Around.

We know that because the amazingly super English Ministry of Defense tells M you have 48 hours to investigate.

That guy is a villain from a Muppet movie.

You know who he is.

Right.

No, no, I don't recognize the face.

You know what you know Downton Abbey.

Yeah, yeah.

That is Julian Fellows.

He is a British Lord and creator of Downton Abbey.

That's Julian Fellows.

I did not know that.

Wow.

Amazing role for him in this film.

I like how he.

Says British.

I like how he says.

Christ.

Oh, yeah.

Everything just falls together.

Well, yeah, You talk about somebody underutilized.

Judy Titch is like, am I in this movie?

I could have watched the whole movie of just the.

That's just the defense minister.

People in the conference.

Room that and the other guy that's like her right hand who's one of the soldiers in Resident Evil, the one that gets the grid through the face.

I can't remember the name but.

Oh, oh Tan, not Tanner.

What is his name?

Colin Salmon plays.

Him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colin Salmon.

Yeah, I like him.

He's fun.

So he he's also very, you know, in the moment of it, you can tell he's had a different movie when he shot those scenes.

But we so we know that this film takes place over 48 hours.

So Stamper is on the stealth boat that sinks to deventure.

Then he's in Hamburg running security for Carver's party.

But then he also pops up back where the deventure sank, so he can, you know, seemingly he just happens to be hanging around where the Devonshire sank so he can pop up and capture Bond and Way Lynn.

This is pretty efficient.

He is.

He is everywhere and always on a flight.

That that man has got like he's sitting next to George Clooney and up in the air with the the flight miles man.

It's almost like they didn't think about this when they were putting the script.

Or, or the geography doesn't exist in this world.

Or the the world is a lot smaller.

It's a lot smaller.

Yeah, Hamburg to Vietnam is far.

That that might take a a time.

So I don't think that you can do that in two days and also still look like you could put a sentence together.

Yeah, that's wild.

Let's talk a little bit about the gadgets.

What do you make of the BMW?

This was a deal that they had made with the Bonds at the time to get away from the different cars.

They got the BMW and I, I've seen when they pop it out of the crate, I'm like, it's the most boring ass James Bond car of all time.

When he had that sweet looking one in Goldeneye.

Now he's got like the the family sedan.

You know it's going to sell to the people.

Yeah, yeah, the 750IL is probably not price for the Honda Accord crowd.

It's.

The worst Bond car, I think, yeah, it's my neighbor has a BMW750.

And what I'm trying to say is my neighbor shouldn't own a Bond car.

No, probably not.

No, it, it has the remote control thing with the phone.

You know, we're doing all that, but it's.

Cool it.

I mean the the remote control thing is cool.

Yeah, because you see how it's going to play out.

I mean, it's hilarious.

And the fact that.

And apparently they did not pay for it, so, but they got the permission to let Q dress up in the Avis jacket and do the little like the little comedy checklist.

Like, do you need insurance for explosions or whatever?

I'm like, well, we got to let Desmond have his comedy, so, you know, but.

It's not a Puma, right?

That that looked like this time they had shot that like honestly, and they were like, let's just get through this.

They did not feel like they were like, it was like the fourth different setup of that that they had seen.

And they're like, OK, OK, yeah, I, the car's OK, but it's not, I mean, it's boring.

There's nothing rememberable about it, right?

I had, I had Ericsson cell phones.

I didn't have this one, but I it's one of the most indestructible phones I've ever seen.

Sony Ericsson, pretty sweet.

Nowadays, there's only about three kinds of phones.

So yeah, already this feels, this feels like a nostalgic sign.

It does.

I love when they're introducing the car, how you know?

GPS was new at the time, but I love how proud they are.

He was just like.

And it comes equipped with a global positioning satellite system.

They're stunting it so much.

I love it.

I mean, we we joke about it now, but back in 97 someone's probably watching this, but like, what the hell is this?

Yeah, you can get that.

I thought the military had that.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Is that a phone in a car?

Yeah, no way.

Well, I mean, I, I'd seen bag phones in cars.

I'd never seen that, you know, set up so.

I think one of the things that works in this film's favor is that some of the technology that they were purporting has weirdly aged into itself in the modern era.

Anton, we talked about this all the way back when we covered the first Mission Impossible film.

How that film, like this one, Jay, has basically why, you know, streaming video wirelessly, which was unheard of in the late 90s, but it now is commonplace.

So when you watch it now, it doesn't feel like you're watching something that's dated, even though it like undates itself in a way.

Yeah, it it lives long enough to see itself become self.

Fulfilling.

Yeah, yeah, it's not retro futuristic but there is a there's an optimism to for what technology.

We'll get to it.

It's very funny.

There's actually some late 90s IBM commercials where they very similar to the themed Can you imagine teleconferencing from the beach?

And we and I watch them like, yeah, yeah.

I can actually.

But in 1994, probably not.

So sidebar about Carver's dumb ass plan?

No mention of the Internet, right?

It's like right on the coast, man.

I mean like I I was in college at the time.

What?

Does he say he's like, I want radio, I want TVI want newspapers, I want books, I want magazines?

No, nobody had figured out how to totally monetize the Internet yet.

So I looked this up.

Newspapers had websites in 1997.

Yeah, the one I worked for did, yeah.

But it probably is not again the the template the no idea of like how to properly like place hyperlinks.

It's it was a Geocities like text version of the newspaper, but you thought it was the coolest thing ever, you know.

But there's no search, by the way, so you have to go exactly to the exact page that you want to.

So it's also just a treasure hunt to get to that page.

That's the thing that dates the most out of this.

Not that a media mogul is like this mega, mega little asshole, because we know that to be the truth with a lot of them, but that that someone would think that like newspapers would last, you know, like the fact that those like went down so hard so quickly after this dude.

That's the other thing is that four years later, the no, this is bad.

This is not how news works anymore.

The 24 hour news cycle had started in 1994 with the OJ Simpson draw.

Like that's that's when that began.

And so that was now part of like American pop culture.

But it feels like one of the things that the Bond series falls into sometimes is chasing the thing of the moment, you know, and that in doing so, it really just puts a hard railroad spike into this was only this way in 1997.

And beyond that, it just doesn't last, you know?

Yeah, some things don't last.

Some things do last, like Hugo Drax and the space harem.

So.

I still think that at least had more motivation than what Carver's got going on here.

I just, you know, putting that out.

The movie, so dumb and so fun.

It's but it's fun.

It's so fun yeah.

I will say this because we we are picking on it.

At no time, though, am I not at least like having fun with this because I feel like I'm going to give a lot of that is because Michelle Yo and Pierce Brosnan are clearly having fun like we talked about.

So they're I'm going to have fun watching them have fun, you know, at least even if.

I completely agree with you, this film's plot is like idiotic but I'm never bored watching this.

You know, it didn't let you get bored.

That's The thing is it?

It's one thing after the next.

There's no low time of sitting around on the beach like Golden.

I had a couple of those too.

And like they were for some dramatic beats, but there's like that.

You could cut out that whole scene where him and the Russian lady are like naked out on the beach and she's trying to, you know, getting to open up and like, who gives a shit?

You know James Bond and get in touch, get on the couch and go to therapy and screw.

That what is this?

No time to die?

Yeah.

No, yeah, thank you.

I am not interested in that whatsoever.

So, but yeah, I don't see that.

So I this this at least doesn't waste time with all that crap.

And so and they don't waste time getting us on the boat at the end.

But we talked about they, they, you know, they go between Hamburg, the, you know, Russian border, which I guess is somewhere near the Himalayas is what the, the note I had said and then South China Sea.

But we're kind of on sets the whole time between that and Saigon.

It's the street chase through Saigon is pretty awesome, though you got to admit that motorcycle chase is really, really good.

It is cool featuring another BMW.

Yeah, but even though, am I not wrong, she could have gotten out of those handcuffs whenever, right?

Yes, her earring thing.

Yes, she could have.

So that it's all just for the stunt then, OK, I mean, cool.

It's neat because she she's draped around him and driving, you know, half of it while he's driving the other half.

It's the I I know thematically it's supposed to be these two are the they're opposite sides of the same coin.

They really are each other's equals.

And this is a good way to show it without having to say it.

And so visually it's neat.

And I give spotless with credit because he's not a guy again that I think can direct great action.

But this thing really works out.

I wonder, I was going to say, did he direct it or was he Michelle Yoda like that?

So no, I the second unit did a lot of heavy lifting there, I think.

It it shows, but that's OK, you know?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got to know when to look.

You got to know when to hand it off to people you know.

Get out of the way and let.

Yeah, Look, Joe Elliott's a good front man, but he knows when to get out of Phil Collins and Steve Clark or, you know, Vivian Campbell's way.

Those guys just do things.

Even David Lee Roth knew when to get the hell out of Eddie Van Heven.

But so.

Too bad Eddie didn't always know that.

But, yeah, But that, yeah.

I mean, it works, you know?

So I the big finale to me, I don't know, like the Bond finales are always like I hold them up to a high standard because again, I got to introduce some to some pretty incredible ones early on.

Like I always think about the ninja Cave and you Only live twice being just like a high pinnacle mark for like throw down Bond, you know, endings and stuff.

And so maybe it's not fair to judge against that kind of stuff.

But even the winning Goldeneye, there was a lot of shit going on in that movie and this one, it's all, I don't know, it's a gunfight on a boat, you know?

The geography is all hard to figure out.

Yeah, I mean, not that I've been in a spaceship, but I can at least follow what was going on in Moonraker.

Or hell, think about Thunderball.

It's an underwater, you know, spear gunfight.

There's no blowing up to that.

It's just a bunch of bubbles and air.

But what makes it work the the action It's awesome.

It's a great fight scene versus this, which is you're just waiting for.

What cheesy ass line is Bond going to drop on Carver when he kills it like this?

No surprise at all that he kills him with Chekhov's Drill.

It it's really interesting going towards the end, it totally feels very different from the rest of the film.

And I say totally in the sense that there's different kinds of action movies in this film.

And I think we get a bit of that when we think of like the the motorcycle scene as within its own versus the opening of the film versus some of the chase scenes.

I think that what what category does the ending kind of fall into?

It feels like a video game.

A very chaotic video game, yeah.

Yeah, and this is probably no surprise to the both of you.

This climax aboard the stealth boat, It was the most rushed during production.

They didn't storyboard it.

It is very different in the novelization.

For me to bring that up once again, it it does feel like a different kind of action movie, Anton, You're right.

It feels like a very generic 90s action movie.

Oh, let's have Bond fire 2 guns at the same time.

Will get him to shoot missiles inside the boat, at other people inside the boat, yeah.

It it didn't necessarily feel like Bond, but it felt like the contemporary action film.

Maybe that's a real.

Yeah, that's a good way to build a path.

No, that that is right.

And I mean, you talk about the video game.

I remember distinctly, all he does is shoot Carver in the video game.

We had to shoot him like 5000 times, but he just shoots him and then it's cutscene, you know, and and then there's no drills, none of that other stuff.

Then they just blow the ship, you know?

Yeah.

How does the sea drill get into the control room if it's on like a carriage?

That's very delicately.

Yeah, at some point they hit like the controller for it and it starts coming toward them.

But if it's hanging from this carriage, how does it go through the ceiling?

Also, how does it work when it's not really plugged up?

What?

Do we think of Carver's death?

Oh, it's it's.

He could have moved to the left.

Could have yeah, slightly, yeah.

No, it's.

It's bad that you can tell.

This is like the last day of the impossible photography where they've got Jonathan Bryce and OK just stand there and look scared.

He just, he did this scene, then he's like, I'm going to catering now.

Yeah, I'm, I'm out.

I'll see y'all later.

I can't believe we haven't talked about the second most important villain in the film, General Chang.

General Chang.

Yeah.

How did we miss him?

Wow.

Well, I'll tell you how he missed him.

Jay.

He's on screen for two seconds.

Was he supposed to be on for longer because I.

Don't know.

I mean, Gupta was on for a while until they got shot, so.

Who had a much bigger role in the production, Gupta or the pre production?

Gupta or General Chang.

Both presumably, but I know specifically for Gupta's character he would throw like he would use his card throwing skills as part of his as part of his thing to like dispatch people, but.

Have you seen the deleted scene?

Yeah, no, yeah.

No, this is a deleted scene.

Yeah, with Ricky J throwing his cards as a.

Weapon because he's because, you know, he's very, very good at it.

And I mean.

That would, yeah, that would have been cool if it had been set up at all, right.

I mean, I don't know how that would have worked in the underwater boat sequence.

You know all that too.

But it's a neat character thing that feels like that that's come back somewhere along the way.

Like, oh, you don't know I'm it's not a Bond movie.

Friggin Dave Franco does this to people in the Now You See me Now you don't movies like he he throws cards at people and knocked people out with them.

Which I wonder if he learned from Ricky J.

You wonder.

Yeah.

Well, you know, supposedly a lot of that sleight of hand that they do in those movies is actually like the actors, like Woody Harrelson's been able to do that for years.

But the rest of them apparently learned it to do some of the close up stuff.

So I don't know.

Ricky J could really do it.

I believe it and I've seen it.

So I love those.

By the way, just as an aside that Now You See me movies are fun.

So they're they're like their own set of like ridiculous lore, but they're also fun.

So if you just don't take them too seriously.

So like what if James Bond was a magician and a smart ass teenager?

Oh yeah, I, I, I want to see them all again.

We.

It's been a minute since I've done a rewatch.

They were both on Toby not that long ago and I'll watch them both back-to-back.

Yes, once again, Toby, we love you.

And then I found out they were doing the third one and so I'm like, OK, cool, I'm I'm game and I saw the trailer for it.

I'm like, I'm in, you know, I I wish Lizzie Kaplan was coming back.

Nothing to I guess Isla Fisher, but Lizzie Kaplan had good energy in that.

Second I I never realized John Chu directed the second one.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I thought that was, I was really cool.

I'm like oh, because he gave a shout out recently.

Yeah, it's, it's going to be fun stuff.

So I like most of this, which was, you know, fun but ridiculously stupid.

So as we get.

So where does this one live for you guys in Brosnan's Bond?

And then also just bond overall.

You don't have to give a specific number, but just kind of general vicinity where it where it lands.

It's like mid tier for me.

I think it's it's my third favorite Brosnan it after Goldeneye and World is not enough comes this.

I think World is Not Enough suffers from some of the same tonal problems this does.

But I think World is Not Enough has better written characters, particularly the villains, better acted characters.

But I have this above Die Another day.

Yeah, this is upper mid for me just because I still find myself going back to see this one.

It's still it's I find it very entertaining and also I just love Michelle Yeoh in it.

So I feel like especially when it comes to like not like this era of 90s action films like this is on that list for me.

So while it's not high on the pier for Bond in the in the Bond sphere for for Brosnan, I think I still think it's upper mid.

I I live with you all that's in the middle side of it.

I feel like the Brosnan Bonds are like a perfect down slope angle.

Yeah, there's four movies.

You have Goldeneye Tomorrow Never dies or it's not Enough and then die another day.

Like it just it makes a perfect line down, which is hard to do in a series.

It's always ups and downs.

But like his four, they just slid down the mountain side a little bit because the scripts got more convoluted and too many, too many people in the kitchen as.

He was done a disservice because I really like him as Bond.

I agree.

It was the total package, yeah.

He he was perfect for Bond and again was not serviced with completed ideas.

He had one complete idea.

That was the the Goldeneye script was awesome, and then from there it was.

It was just downhill.

Yeah, literally it just went downhill from there for me so.

You know re watching this Jay, because we we covered Goldeneye fairly recently.

This is very different than Goldeneye.

So it's a stark change, you can tell like the director's changing.

And yeah, it's.

Filmed completely differently, it's totally different.

It it's, it's the same writer or one of the same writers, but you wouldn't know.

That is it.

Well, you know, again, writers can have a lot of influence in certain things, but particularly in action movies.

It's a visual medium in a lot of ways.

And the visual here is it's a it's a start drop from Martin Campbell to Rodger's Bottas would know if it's the Rodger's Bottas would.

I'm sure he's a nice person, but this is not not even close.

And and that's a shame too, because you do have some good set pieces with Saigon and you know, you've got somebody like Michelle Go and I don't think he knew what to do.

Like honestly, I'm just don't think it was.

Again, it was one of those late replacement.

We got to get it done.

You know, they run at that point.

I mean, they're running up against the deadlines because let's be real, this is the only thing keeping MGM alive for decades.

So they got to get this out so.

Time was not on their side.

And did either of you look up who the DP was on this?

No, I didn't.

Who is it?

A guy named Robert Elswit, who?

No big deal.

He is a frequent collaborator of Paul Thomas Anderson.

He shot this and Boogie Nights in the same year.

Pretty good.

He won an Oscar for There Will Be Blood.

He's the same guy that shot There Will Be Blood, so OK.

I'm looking at his filmography right now.

He also shot the Hand, the roster, the Cradle, which is one of my favorite night.

Very experienced DP.

Erotic thriller?

Yeah.

No, he's, he's good.

He's got good stuff.

Heck, he hey, he shot Mission Impossible Rogue Nation.

That looks so much better than this.

But this is a perfect example of how a great DP or crew member in general, if you don't give them enough time to do their thing, it doesn't matter how talented they may be, Spotiswood said in the production notes.

He wanted like months, extra months to work on this film and they didn't give it to him.

I don't think they could.

I think they had the release date and it was hard.

They locked in.

They were getting that out so because again, this was keeping a lot of people employed.

So it was yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, I'm a fan of them, but I wouldn't sit here and hold them up as a great cinema.

But a lot of those mid mid level, mid series Nightmare on Elm Street movies are the thing that's keeping New Line Cinema alive.

So that is coming out whether it's done or not, so.

Yeah, think about it.

If we don't get all those Nightmare on Elm Street sequels, do we get Lord of the Rings?

As it happens, probably not.

You don't get, you don't get any of that stuff.

Yeah.

So because that also means you don't get that King Kong movie you guys just recently covered, which might be OK.

So go listen to that episode.

It's a great day down at that movie.

I'm gonna tell you because I had had that one.

Like I wish you do King Kong, man.

I saw y'all did it.

I was like, I don't think I could say anything different.

I'm gonna point people to that.

That is exactly how I feel.

About Anton and our guest were kinder to it than I was.

I think it pretty much stinks.

It's it's not good.

So again, good actors wasted in roles that are built for them.

But anyway, another day on Donahue, as they say.

Well, we're at the part of this podcast where it's time to get final thoughts and popcorn ratings.

So if it's your first time on the show or listening to the show, we rate thing on the popcorn scale.

The, you know, the bigger the bag, the more you like it.

And of course, add any modifiers to it that you like.

So Pat and Tom, what are yours for tomorrow Never dies.

Anton, let's go with you.

Yeah, so just final thoughts.

I mean, this is just a nostalgia trip for me.

And just thinking of it from that lens, I I do enjoy watching this film.

This has so much rewatch ability as an action film, as Pierce Brosnan's Bond, as a Bond film, as martial arts Michelle Yeoh and the Fray.

It has all the things that intrigued me as a teenager and that still intrigued me to today when going back to this kind of film.

The quality of the film, maybe it's not out there like no 0 character development, zero really any or I will say that the pacing at least is a bit better than what I would have then World is not enough.

But I think one of the biggest things that you can point to this film is just coming right after Goldeneye.

It's just, it's, it's tough.

It's just tough.

But I, I think that a lot of people will will agree even what, 30 years later, almost, almost.

It's just still such an entertaining film.

And I think, again, that comes down to still paying attention to the right parts of what makes Bond enjoyable.

And part of that is no matter the stakes or what's occurring on screen, there's still just an edge of nostalgic optimism and fun that's going on in the film that later Bonds tended to turn a bit bit more serious than this.

So for me, this is just a fun nostalgic trip.

When I think of the popcorn that I would give this, think of your favorite movie house from the 90s and all of the whatever chemicals they put in their popcorn to make it taste the way that it did.

And that was the popcorn that I'm having, and I'm having a large of it.

All right, that.

So this is Brosnan's second outing and what Anton said is right.

If you compare this to Goldeneye, yes, it is a sophomore slump.

I I think the villain and the plan are really stupid but it is very entertaining and it's very watchable.

It's really well paced.

I absolutely love the score.

David Arnold was one of the best additions to the James Bond series that they ever could have hoped for.

He would score all of the films after this going up to Quantum of Solace and in my opinion they never justified replacing him.

This is one of my favorite scores in the series.

Check out the song that plays during the end credits as well.

Surrender I like Pierce Brosnan here a lot.

I really like Michelle Yo.

It has a lot to offer.

I I feel like I've been pretty critical of this throughout this episode, and I know I said I would rank it middle tier for Bond.

I I've seen a lot worse.

I think it probably works better as a 90s action movie than it does as a Bond movie.

I think as a Bond movie, it does a lot of things that don't really work for me, but if I'm comparing it to its contemporaries, meaning like what were the other action movies that came out during the era, it's very entertaining and it's very well done.

Interesting to note, this was kind of the last of an era for James Bond for a very, very important reason.

This came out the same year as the first Austin Powers, which would forever alter how the James Bond movies were perceived and made.

This was of course made before, you know the first Austin Powers movie came out, although I think it came out after the first Austin Powers movie, but I thought that was worth pointing out.

I give this one big buttery bucket of popcorn.

I have a lot of nostalgia for this movie despite its flaws and as as harsh as I think I have been on this, I still have time for this film and I enjoyed rewatching it.

Yeah, I I'm going to make an analogy here.

What this is for me, it's like the second major release, Hootie and the Blowfish album, Fairway the Johnson.

It's coming off the heels of this mega hit that's just chock full of memorable moments and scenes with crack review, which was a big part of music when I was, you know, coming up and I was in high school and everything.

And then, you know, the follow up right?

And I, I'll never forget hearing those guys talk about it is you have your whole life to write that first album and then you have three years to write the second one.

Then it's got to be just as good.

And I feel like this one was they they finally got the bond they wanted.

No offense to Timothy Dalton, but they wanted Brosten all the way back in, you know, living daylights time.

So they finally get him and they hook him up with this incredible script, this incredible story, these great, you know, people around him and it's a killer moon.

Goldeneye just rocks.

Same with Craig reviews.

It's it's everything.

Those guys are home.

Those songs down to the, you know, best they can, they get in the studio, they rock them out and they're all over the radio forever.

And then they got to do the same, and this one's the same way.

It's that sophomore slump.

There's nothing specifically wrong with it.

We've nitpicked and played with it because that's what we do here.

That's part of the fun of it is is poking fun at things, and there's nothing specifically wrong with it like this is awful.

It's just that it's not the first one and you can't help but compare it to it because it wants to be that.

And that's the same with things like fair.

The way the Johnson is a completely listenable album.

It sounds just like every other who eat the blowfish album, as it turns out, but it's not crack Riverview.

And if you watch Tomorrow and Never dies expecting it to be Golden Eye, well, you're already going to miss because they're not they're not all gold figure.

They're not all great, you know, But it is fun.

And the thing that this movie has going for it, and I know it's a product of all the chopping that it went through and then never having a script is that it is fast and it goes down easy.

And it is one of those what I call you can put it on movies.

You can put the thing on.

You'll watch the big action scenes.

And if you want to walk out while Teri Hatcher's not happy to be there and go vacuum or pet the cat or whatever, you can do that.

And you're not going to miss anything cuz you can come right back.

And I'll tell you why you're not going to miss anything.

Because this villain, more than almost any of them, will re explain to you why he is doing what he is doing multiple times.

And I'd like this movie for that reason is that it doesn't ask a whole lot of you and it gives you a pretty much what you get in return.

So for me, it is the perfect freshly made medium buttery popcorn.

If there's nothing bad about it, there's just nothing particularly great about it either.

But it is good and it is fun and it's been a ton of fun talking about it with you guys especially.

So please tell folks a little bit about your show where they can find y'all and anything else you got coming up here toward the end of 2025 going into 26 that you want to tease.

Wow, Thank you so much, Jay.

It's it's been an absolute pleasure to talk about my favorite film series and as far as where you can find why wasn't it better?

We are on Spotify, we're on YouTube, we are on all the major social media platforms, WWIB podcast, We have a Patreon as well if you really want to support us.

And yeah, we've got plenty more to come, a lot of content that we still have to release.

And yeah, it's like I said, it is always a pleasure to be here, Jay.

And you, you have to repay us the favor and come back on our podcast.

And by the way, I know the timing may not work out perfectly, but Wednesday, the Presumed Innocent episode releases with yourself as our beloved guest.

That that is fantastic because that was one of my favorite things to get to talk about with you guys.

So thank y'all for so fine.

Yeah.

So it's all again, thank you for coming up, being a part of all these things.

We appreciate y'all very much so.

Yeah, we're again just Pat said.

Pat said it best.

It's such a pleasure being on here and thank you so much for having us on and can't wait for you to be on our show.

Absolutely any any time.

Well, folks, of course you can follow this show on social media at film strip pod where we share announcements about upcoming shows, other fun content things we've got going on.

So don't forget to subscribe and also make sure you subscribe and like our YouTube channel.

We've got that thing up and going and that's been a big a boost for us.

So a bonus points if you can leave us a positive reviews that helps other people find the podcast.

And of course, it makes us feel really good about ourselves.

And hey, it's the holiday season.

Give a little back, you know, so that's all we're asking for.

But we appreciate your time.

And again, thanks to Patrick and Anton for why wasn't it better.

Until next time, thank you for listening.

Filmstrip.

Thank you for listening to Filmstrip.

You can find more episodes on our website, filmstrippodcast.com.

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