Welcome to Film Strip.

These podcasts are spoiler filled as we discuss the plots, characters and themes of the films in review.

All content used or discussed in these podcast episodes is the property of the respective owners and used under the Fair Use Act, Section 5O4C2, Title 17.

Welcome to Film Strip.

I'm Jay.

I'm Ryan.

I'm Lindsay.

And I'm Matt.

And we're here to talk about Hook.

Starring Robin Williams, Dustin Hoffman, Julia Roberts, Bob Hoskins, Maggie Smith, and Charlie Corsmo.

Based on The Famous Peter and Wendy by JM Perry.

Directed by Steven Spielberg, released in 1991 and you know, has a bit of an interesting reputation.

It was a big hit at the box office.

But if you ask old Steve, and we're on first name basis now, we can say that if you ask old Steve, he's not a big fan of this one, but a couple of our fans here are.

So we'll get into it as we go.

But first things.

1st.

Ryan, we're excited to officially welcome you as a permanent member of the Cast Era film strip.

So yeah, you were on our your first review with us was The Talented Mr.

Ripley episode 325.

And then you were on The Last Airbender episode 333, and most recently our Shocktober 25 capper with Dawn of the Dead episode 435.

Tell folks a little bit about you in case this is their first podcast.

And since this was your idea, what's your background?

Well, first of all, I'm really excited to be a part of this family.

I've I've as being a guest star.

I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

And now that I am I guess a, a pillar of this group now or something like that, I'm so happy to be like doing this.

Moving forward.

A little background on me, I guess.

I guess I'll start a little bit.

I am a theater kid first and foremost.

I am a big old nerd and an animation geek.

I had the pleasure of meeting Lindsay eight years ago.

I think it was eight or seven years ago.

Yep.

And we hung out in a Winchester parking lot talking about costuming and.

After an audition.

After an audition and we really hit it off.

And we've been really good friends ever since.

And then she abandoned me for New Jersey.

But she was the one who was like, hey, do you want to come talk?

Because she had always told me about Film strip and I kind of heard about it and how much she enjoyed it.

And she was like, you want to join us for a podcast?

And I said, yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun.

And then you guys were like, do you want to talk about a movie that, you know, potentially you want to rage about?

That was Avatar the Last Airbender.

And I guess that, you know, somehow you guys were like, OK, she's pretty cool.

Or if we were like, we tolerate her enough so we'll bring her back on it.

Only took us 100 episodes to get to back on.

It only took US100I.

When you said that it was like episode 330 something for Last Airbender.

I was like, Oh my gosh, it's been a very long time, but I'm so happy to be a part of this group now.

And you guys were like, for your first official episode, pick a movie that you really love.

And this is actually one that Lindsay and I talked about when we were recording Avatar the Last Airbender.

It was we had watched the movie and I was trying to show her how awful that film was.

And I was like, let's watch a couple of the the the animated series.

Let me show you what it's like.

And we had paused at one point and I said, for those who have ever watched the animated series, I paused at Zuko and I said, do you know who voice acts Zuko?

And she said no.

And I said, that's Dante Bosco, who is Rufio from Hook.

And she's like, I love that movie.

And I was like, I love that movie.

So this has been 100 episodes in the making.

Lindsey, in several years, yeah, we've, we keep talking about it and we keep threatening to do it.

And now here we are doing it.

We are.

Yes, I guess in regards to my background, I it's kind of a little fuzzy because this movie came into my life because I think this was the movie came out in 1991.

So I would have been three years old.

So that was not my first introduction to it.

I think I was somewhere in my preteen years when I started watching it and I it was my parents.

I know that, and I was just fully enamored with this film and that's saying something is like a preteen.

And I definitely feel that this movie has been something more to me now that I've gotten older, as certain films are.

But that's my background on it.

Jay, what about you?

I'm going to save mine for a second because I want to hear Matt's on this because Matt, we, we got you on the podcast because I told you we were doing this and then you just randomly texted me that you were watching it.

And I was like, you guys, who's getting anybody on the show now?

Yeah, well, I, I love this movie.

I, you guys saw my my replica hook.

I've got the beautiful Drew Struzan poster hanging in the other room.

Check the film strip of social medias for a picture of that, by the way, folks.

Yeah, and I, I weirdly, this is one of those movies again.

1991, I was 87.

Hold on, I'm bad at math.

87888999 I was 4.

So I didn't see this in the movie theater.

Even if I had my my family, we didn't go to the movie theater a lot anyway.

So even if I had been old enough, I probably wouldn't have seen it in the theater.

It just wasn't something my parents, you know, took us to the movie theater a lot anyway.

But so when did I start watching?

This was probably at some point I probably picked it up at my local video rental place.

And I remember having it on VHS at one point to own.

And I've just, I've always enjoyed it a lot.

It's one of those movies, Jay, you, you mentioned it's it's weird reaction.

This is one of those movies I didn't know was, quote UN quote, a bad movie until the Internet existed.

Like I had no idea that this wasn't a movie that critics enjoyed.

And so it was.

Yeah, it is.

It's weird.

And so I don't know, I just and I always like to throw it on.

I don't throw it on like super regularly, but it is a, it is a good November movie because it's a, it's a quote UN quote Christmas movie because it starts with them, you know, going to London at Christmas time.

So it's it's it's to me, it's a great November movie.

So I don't watch it necessarily every November, but maybe like every other November or something like that, I'll throw it on so.

That's fair, Lindsey I this is, as you've already professed, one of something you love.

So what's your background with Hook?

I love this movie.

I actually sent my mom a text while I was watching it tonight.

I've seen it a lot but I haven't seen it recently so I did feel like it required a quick rewatch.

And I sent my mom a text and asked her if she remembered whether or not we want to see it in the theater and she was like no no we definitely didn't see it in the theater.

I think we just rented it and then we ended up buying it because my brother and I were obsessed.

So I also sent my brother a text and said, dude, I'm watching Hook.

It's still really great.

And he goes hook like Peter Pan.

And I said yeah, with Robin Williams.

And he sent me the text Bangarang question mark.

And I said, I said Bangarang.

Bangarang.

He was like, oh man, what a blast from the past.

So this was, I mean, I, I definitely saw it very shortly after it came out.

It wasn't a movie theater watch for us, but it was just one of those movies that we had on all the time when we were growing up.

And it, there's so many little things that kind of live rent free in my brain and a few I forgot.

And it's just, it's just like a wonderful little movie.

And I did forget that it took place partially, or at least like during Christmas time.

I thought, wow, what a great, what a perfect time to review this movie.

Cause a while ago we had talked about reviewing it in like the summertime because we knew there was a baseball thing and it's on an island and it's kind of summary feeling.

But November, perfect time.

Happy accident to be reviewing this I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, it came out in December too, so it was definitely positioned for that.

And this is, you know, we we're kicking off the month of December with this one for us here.

And 1st off though, how can I be by far the oldest person on this podcast?

But my point of reference for banging rain is friggin Skrillex.

OK, well, first.

Of all that's.

Something you don't know.

Skrillex is incredible.

I'm just throwing you.

Up.

Yes, no, but that when I heard that I was like, oh sure, that's what that's from so.

Is this?

Yeah.

What's your background, Jay?

Is this the first time you've seen it?

Did you watch it?

I've seen this movie twice.

I saw it when it came out on video I guess in 1992.

Now OK.

199192 Let me just set the stage here and desperately age myself since all of you were nice enough to do that for our audience.

Jay was like 15, so I was beyond like Peter Pan being a thing.

Not that I would have hated it, but I was in that in between stage of what I like from childhood and then what teenagers was going to be.

And also at this point of my life, y'all, I cannot explain to you how like deep into music and trying to do that.

I was so like movies sort of took like a three or four year just back burner for me.

So I didn't see anything for a long time until I got where I could drive myself.

And that became my theater sojourning and all that.

Because back then going to the theater was cheap.

But I remember just renting this because we as a family, we had seen Robin Williams in stuff, you know, Dead Poets Society was something that, that I really resonated with and that even as a kid and my, my family really liked it.

So we rented it and we'd like Spielberg, you know, he was kind of my filmmaker growing up.

I mean, you look, being a kid of the 80s, how would it not be right?

And so I, you know, I was always down for that kind of thing.

So we watch this and I remember thinking like.

You know, cuz again I was a.

Teenager and didn't really.

It wasn't really for me and I didn't think about it again.

I hadn't thought about this movie in forever.

I knew Spielberg had made it.

I'd heard through the years he him talking about how much he didn't like it, and I always wondered, I'm like, well, I wonder what it is about it he doesn't like.

And so I actually dug a little bit of it up and we can get into some of that as we go.

But for me, though, the big sticking point is Peter Pan is a very like, I don't know what it is about that story, Y'all.

It is always struck me as so incredibly sad, which should appeal to my like sensibilities because I'm all about the sad bastard music.

But they just.

It's not a phase.

It's it's.

Yeah, no, it's a lifestyle.

But I mean, I, I, there's something about it that I don't know.

I always found like really profound.

But also it just spoke to a part of like having to let go of childhood and all that stuff that just is, it's, it's it's a tough transition for anybody.

And it was for me.

And I think when I got around to Peter Pan, all that stuff like it just it all that always struck me about it, that, that part of it.

So I hold on to that piece of it.

So I didn't have this like real, I don't know, driving reason to care about it again.

So when I went back and rewatched it, the only things I remembered about it at all.

If I remember Robin Williams and feeling like Robin Williams was handcuffed in this movie.

And I'll talk about that as we go through just to what what I mean by that, that and I remember how incredibly awful I thought Julia Roberts wasn't this.

And we'll talk about whether or not I still think that's true or not.

But I know why she got cast in it.

We can get into that in a bit.

But I remember those two things.

I didn't remember anything else.

And so watching it again, this time I was pleasantly surprised at like almost how new IT felt, you know, even though I knew I'd seen it, like I like I remember this, this feels familiar, but gosh, it feels like I'm watching it for the first time.

So which is fun for me because on film strip that's the joke is try to find something Jay hasn't seen.

You know, I've watched too much stuff.

So I.

I've got one for you, Jay.

We'll come back to it, but I've got one for you.

I.

I accept all challenges.

You just re invited yourself back up for an episode, by the way, So just so you know, but but anyway, I I remember that and then and then watching again.

This time though, it felt like a new movie in a lot of ways, but it has a lot of people in it that I generally enjoy watching work.

I like Robin Williams in pretty much any form he worked in.

He's just one of the best performers of the generation.

And you know, I, I try to think about the said it's been being gone, but what he left behind in terms of a acting resume and and performances and stuff is that everyone of them was something.

And this was a year before he really, I felt like really, really hit mainstream because Aladdin came out and that just yeah, put that put a pin in that one.

Because I'll talk about that movie all day because I was definitely, I was definitely a teenager for that boy jam for that movie all the way, which is funny, you know, but but animation always has a certain kinds of animation have a real soft spot for me.

And so that one was, but I I forgot how good Maggie Smith was in this.

I love her just about everything.

I also love Bob Hoskins and I can't think of anything I've seen him where I didn't like him.

I maybe didn't dig all the stuff he did, but I like him.

You know, he just gives the performance and it's just a he can be so many things.

Like I think back to you want to go way back in film strip archives when we did Who Framed Roger Rabbit and and I really geeked out on just how good he had to be to pull that off at the time, acting against literally nothing sometimes.

And he's he's incredible.

And that is it.

Is it he's even good in like these bad noir movies you got guest in in the 90s?

Even this one with Tom Behringer called Shattered, which I think it lives on Tubby.

If you hadn't seen it, I'd recommend rewatching it.

He's the only thing we're watching in it.

But he's good and and I dig him in it and but anyway, I circle around on it.

I didn't have fond memories of it, but I only ever saw it once.

So I don't judge it too hard for that.

And I went back and rewatched it this time and it I, I logged in on letterbox, but I specifically didn't rate it because I was like, I'm not going to really make clock me on that.

You know, I don't want to spoil my thoughts too early, but that's, yeah, you're not wrong, Lindsay is that it's, it's practically new to me at this point.

Yeah.

And I think watching movies that you saw and loved as a kid and getting to see them from the adult perspective.

We talked about the some with Monster Squad 2, getting to see it from the the same movie, but now from the perspective of being an adult is an entirely new and different and not unpleasant always experience.

And I, I would say I, I mean, I haven't seen this movie for a while.

I didn't find it to be an unpleasant experience watching it from the view of, you know, being an adult now and not an elementary school kid.

Yeah, no, I think as an adult, that's one of the neat things about having done this podcast for as long as we have and stuff is I I've gotten over that fear of like going back to things that you loved as a child and like, what if I don't like it anymore and I can at least appreciate it from a will?

I know why I liked it then.

And then there's a lot of things that now as an adult I see completely differently.

We've had this conversation offline before, Lindsay, But like, I remember seeing Greece when it did like a 20th anniversary in theaters or something.

I think I was in college and it had been years since I watched it.

And I remember walking in there, they're going like, why didn't my parents?

Let me watch that.

Oh my God.

And I didn't know, I didn't realize, like how like it tamed the stage.

Show later on.

When I saw that and I was like, Oh my God, you know, But I saw it as a differently as an adult and experienced it differently as an adult.

And that can be fun too, if you'll you know, my friend Brock has always said you got to be willing to give a movie.

It's it's opening or it's Mulligan like it's it's a conceit.

You got to give it.

You got to meet it where it starts.

And then if it works for you, it works.

But if it doesn't, it doesn't.

But you got at least meet a movie with what it's trying to do for you.

And this one is an interesting take on the whole Peter Pan story because rather than just retell that, you know, for a new generation, Spielberg said, no, I really want to do Peter as an adult who's caught up in this corporate machine.

And then he gets thrown back into this fanciful world.

And how would he deal with it?

And I can't help but think because it's so throughout his career, that Spielberg was projecting a lot at that point in his life because at this point, he his name on stuff just got stuff made.

Well, he he, he.

He may have done that at some point, but you know who gets the story credit on this?

One of the two-story credits on this Jay, Not the screenplay credit, but the story credit because he wrote it, is Nick Castle.

I saw that.

Yeah, which is wild to think about.

Most people know him as the original Michael Myers, and he reprised it a few times in the David Gordon Green trilogy.

But he's also the director of The Last Starfighter, which is also a childhood.

Favorite.

Yep, he was the one.

So this film, you know, eventually Spielberg did it, but this film was a Nick Castle idea.

I see that and that's so funny to think about.

But you know, again, you, you put people in the box that they're, you know, just known for whatever because Nick Castle, the reason he's Michael Myers is because he was there.

He was there and he walked.

Interesting.

He walked.

Cool.

Hi.

John Carpenter was like, hey bro, you did this.

That was it.

I had also heard that for Once Upon a Time, this was also supposed to be a musical.

I was going to ask y'all that like what would you, because when I was watching and I'm like this looks like and feels like a musical and maybe this is I'm I've just watched wicked a lot, you know, in the last month and I'm it's on the brain, but I was like this kind of feels like it should have been a musical.

It states like one for.

Sure, it's built like one.

It's.

Better than it's.

It's better that it's not.

I agree.

Yeah, I, I, you are right, Jay.

It is kind of built like a musical, from the costumes to the set to the physicality, because you've got a lot of actors that are in this that are very physical actors.

I'm really glad it's not a musical, if I'm being perfectly honest.

Yeah, I don't think, I don't think they OK with that RIP a chorus out for anybody and I don't think we need to do that.

And I mean like, I love Robin Williams, but I mean.

There's a certain kind of song he can do.

Yes, the talking kind.

Yes, yes, yes, as we've learned from like Aladdin.

But I am a OK with this not being a musical.

I don't think I would have loved.

I don't think this would be what I find.

I don't want to say it's a cult classic, but to me, like, to me it feels like a cult classic.

Like kind of they're like, it's kind of like it's got its own niche.

I don't think it would have been enjoyed as much if it was a musical.

Yeah, that I agree.

Yeah.

'Cause this was nominated for a Razzie.

Yeah, which you know, if those people.

Yeah.

But.

But which is crazy 'cause I think it was also nominated for Academy Awards as well at the same time.

So it's and, and I know we'll talk about like how Steven Spielberg feels about all of this, but yeah.

I think, again, Spielberg has always been one that kind of wears his emotions on his sleeves anyway.

And I don't mean that it's a bad thing.

He's a big heart and what he's going through at the moment influences a lot of not only what he's doing at the time, but how he feels about it in retrospect.

And this is he's at this point doing this movie and he's in pre production on Schindler's List and Jurassic Park, which talk about a Whiplash.

You know, he's he's got a lot going on that's beyond this because I mean, it took him years to shoot Jurassic Park.

So he was shooting that while this was in post.

And so and then doing Schindler's, you know, on the there's an.

Interesting tie to Jurassic Park with this movie which I learned about.

Oh, I would I would love to hear what that is, because I.

So the actor who played Jack the the and I, I feel really bad that I can't remember his name, but the boy who played Tim in Jurassic.

Park.

Yeah, yeah.

Also auditioned for the role of Jack and he didn't get it, but Spielberg was like, well, I've got this other movie coming out called Jurassic Park, let's put you in that instead.

Yeah, that's Justin Mazzella who played.

Yes, Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, yeah, Charlie Kirsch was in in this, which is interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah, apparently he auditioned for Jack and he didn't get it, but he's like, hey, we'll give you this role in in Jurassic Park.

I'll be honest with you, I mean you.

Can I love a good consolation role?

Yeah.

You know what?

Yeah, you can kind of entertain.

Yeah.

One was in Hook, which is people remember it.

And then one was in one of the biggest movies of all time.

Yeah, there is a lot of fun cameos in this that I didn't catch until 'cause I did AI also was like EJI did like a refresher 'cause the last time I saw it was like in my oh, I, I'd probably say like 10 years ago, but I was.

But I was really great for the refresher because again, it's that thing of watching it as an adult is something that is 'cause I will say this, 'cause like I feel like generations, like this is such an interesting movie.

Just because from the standpoint of you have children and you have adults and you have those people in the middle that don't know if they're in a kid or if they're an adult.

And any other instance of that that comes to mind is the Toy Story franchise.

Because you start with Andy as a kid and then in the in the second movie, it's like they're talking about, oh, well, eventually he's going to grow up and he's not going to want his toys anymore.

And then in 3rd movie, it's like he's going off to college.

So like that.

And that generation kind of like slowly progressed into that feeling, at least for for me where.

What does Andy grew with the age?

Yeah, it was.

It was very linear progression.

Right.

And so I completely agree with with you, Lindsay, and with UJ is that when I first watched this, I had a specific perspective on it.

And then when I was in my 20s, I was like, yeah, OK, I think I, I grasp it.

And then watching it today, in all honesty, 'cause I needed the refresher, it adds a new perspective to it.

So I think this is a movie that definitely grows with its audience, whoever's exposed to it.

Which is funny because that's kind of the whole central premise of the movie The Castle kid wrote with was like, what if Peter was an adult and then got thrown back into this thing which, you know, that's a Hollywood troupe that's been done in a lot of different versions.

Like I think about Tom Hanks and big is kind of like, you know, it's yeah, you know, it's what is that?

If you had a teenager in this body of a, you know, 30 year old yuppie, what would that look like, you know, and which is fun and or, you know, even even something like Back to the Future where you've got this the fish out of water story, but you got this kid that's the future kid is back in the 50s.

And the whole conceit of that is Bob Gale saying, like, I looked at my dad's high school yearbook and realized I would not have been friends with my dad in high school.

In fact, I would have hated him, you know, And then, like, what if you had to save your dad?

You know, how could you do it?

And and.

Then yeah, 'cause you've got like 16 again, 13 going on 30 is another.

Example where Peggy's you got married.

That's one of my favorite obscure ones, but yeah.

Oh wow, I haven't watched that in a very long.

Time, it's been a minute too, but it just popped in my head.

But yeah, there's there's a lot of that.

Yeah, 13.

We've done 13 going on 30 with our friend Lindsay in in New Zealand before.

And she and I talked about like the time travel concede in that movie and you know, what is real and what's not and all that stuff.

But it it's the same idea.

It's like, yeah, when you throw yourself back in these situations, does it work?

And you're right.

I mean, this thing is littered with tons of cameos from, you know, teenage Gwyneth Paltrow to Phil Collins and, you know, all those other things.

To Jimmy Buffett and David Crosby and Glenn Close.

I mean, Crosby is a pirate, is a little on the nose, so it kind of just looks like what?

Fisher and George Lucas.

As well I mean yeah, I could see.

I mean, again, that's Steven has always been good about his friends and you know, just.

Nice.

Yeah, hanging around.

Well, you know, Hey, Steve, you think I can just, you know, walk on the set there a little bit?

I'm doing our Ron to do our George Lucas impression, but because I can't do as good as he can.

But yeah, I mean, that's.

I like that kind of thing though, because it can be fun.

The the trick is, is can you do that without it taking you out of the movie?

You know, that's, that's a balance and we can get into as we go.

But yeah.

Right.

Oh yeah, we have to go through the chat.

JPT story.

I guess it's that time, right?

So all right, let's tackle the old hook plot, which is basically a feature length indictment of the corporate dead lifestyle with an aggressively colorful design, right?

So.

This is the.

Story of Peter Banning, played by Robin Williams, a man who grew up so hard that he forgot he was actually Peter Pan and traded immortality and magic for a crippling fear of heights and a job as a mergers and acquisitions lawyer.

So imagine a much shorter, somewhat less suave Richard Gere from from Pretty Woman Character.

His whole life has conference calls and missing soccer games, which sounds oddly like now.

And this terrible adult has finally catches up with him when his kids Jack and Maggie, while they're visiting Granny Wendy's London nursery, are kidnapped by the gloriously over the top Captain Hook, played by Dustin Hoffman, who literally is so evil he twirls his mustache with Bob Hoskins earwax.

Peter Pan's backstories revealed.

They grew up, you know, obviously.

And now he's just a flabby suit forced to fly back to Neverland and with a very put out Tinkerbell who's there to be like a discriminal travel agent but also unrequited love, which is strange.

But anyway, we'll get there.

Any there.

The humiliation deepens though once he gets there because Hook finding this man that he is obsessed over in a way that is hard to imagine.

Like imagine the way Bret Hart obsesses over the Montreal screwjob that is Hook.

He's like well you're not going to be much of A match but I'll give you 3 days to kind of get it together.

So meets up with the old Lost Boys Treehouse gang which are led by the deeply cynical but ultimately cool Rufio.

Love that guy who and his whole reject the fat bearded bald man who's Mantra and Tinkerbell who shrinks down the human size because physics are merely suggestions in this world of course.

And attempt to get Peter to find his inner happy thoughts through an intense mandatory fun involving food fights and emotional breakthroughs.

The clock of course ticks though, because Hook performs A shockingly successful campaign of psychological warfare to turn the children against their perpetually absent father.

And in a scene that proves that the power of imagination and maybe some latent midlife crisis energy works, Peter finally remembers how he used to love flying power and transforms back into his green tights wearing gravity defying self.

Eat your heart out Adina Mizell.

He rallies the Lost Boys with an enthusiastic Bangarang.

Not Skrillex, but it should have been for the ultimate HR mains 80 team building exercise.

A massive, chaotic battle on the deck of the Jolly Roger, which is a set from a musical, probably that Ryan and Lindsay have been in at one time or another.

Peter eventually defeats Hook, who then is hilariously consumed by a giant taxidermy clock Crocodile, who took his hand making sure that his final form is both ridiculous and symbolic.

Having rediscovered that his truest happy thought is being a present father and reconnecting with his children, Peter returns to London, now magically cured of all his bad parenting, and he's ready to embrace the occasional backyard flight as credits roll.

And that's the chat JPT version of Hook.

Pretty well covered it.

That's good, so hard.

Don't mute that.

Never mute that.

Try.

To be nice, let's.

Talk.

About This Podcast is as loose and fast as the gear shifts, and too fast, too furious.

So there is.

Just Just go ahead and let it roll.

If you ever listen long enough to know that, know that now.

Know what you've gotten yourself into, right?

I already signed the contract, people.

It's too late.

Yeah, too late to say sorry.

You're in, Yeah.

Let's talk about where the movie opens, though, with Peter as a grown up.

Because there's something about like late 80s, early 90s office jobs that only exist in that era because it's pre Internet taking over our world, right?

And all the memos and faxes and hundreds of people throwing paper at you.

I, I get stressed out with the number of e-mail I get in a day.

Sometimes I can't imagine that many people trying to talk to me.

Like I felt really bad for Peter.

And I feel like this is when Robin Williams is he's in another movie at this point.

He's in the the yuppie gone bad movie or I'm I'm put out by it and I need a vacation movie at this point.

And it it's a it's a different start.

It wasn't what I expected because I didn't remember anything about how this movie started and I didn't remember that part of it.

I remember that part of it because every time someone goes to say like they're taking a flight or I'm flying to the city or whatever, it's, it takes actual energy for me to not say don't.

Let your arms.

Get tired.

You said that to me when I flew to sea.

Yeah, this is one of the things that lives in my brain that I never remember where it came from.

And now I remember because he was.

In this movie, I legit was talking to my mother before this recording and I was like, I forgot so many things that we quote that come from this movie, like looky, looky.

I got hooky.

Oh.

That's right.

I was just like.

But yeah, that's another like it's, it sneaks into your brain and you just don't know it.

But yeah, it does.

It does kind of like start off as like what I think especially in like early 2000s, especially like Disney, it's like, oh, dad works too hard and he's not there for his kids and his wife.

But like, but it, it does because there's like it's faxes and his phone, like there's no silence button.

Like that wasn't like existing during that point.

Les Moira, because she's got so much patience at the beginning.

Well, for about 20 minutes of this film.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna get to Carolyn Goodall.

Cuz I, I got, I've seen her in other stuff.

I didn't remember her being in this.

Yeah.

And so it was neat to see her again in this because I remember her from, you know, such bangers as like cliffhanger and also who can forget her in the Princess Diaries?

But you know, I, I've seen her in a lot of stuff through the years and like her presence in a lot of ways, though, I I feel like she is a she's a different look.

She's also shattered.

She's in a movie called shattered glass, which I really love.

It's a, it's probably the best Hayden Christensen acting job ever, mostly because it's a real story, but she's really good at it.

And but I I like it.

Which is a low bar, but.

Well, fair, but I would, I would say watch that movie some time and you'll you'll see why people thought like this guy can act like he's pretty good.

So he's playing a jerk from New York.

It's a little on the nose, but you know, it kind of is what it is.

But.

Yeah, I mean, but all of this sets up kind of You said you were talking about like Spielberg feeling at certain places in his life, but isn't this a place like a lot of especially, I mean, now not being a parent myself, it's hard to say.

But my understanding is now parents are trying to be better about work life balance and spending some more time with their kids.

But isn't this a point like everybody reached at a point?

I remember being a kid in the 90s, my dad being at work.

All a lot.

He just worked a ton, not because he was a bad dad or anything, but because he genuinely, you know, he had me and my brother and a house and a wife and my mom worked too, but only part time.

And he just genuinely was like trying to make sure our life was OK.

And this movie is showing it a little bit differently.

Like, I do think Peter in this is is more obsessed with his job, not necessarily in a like, I'm trying to be good for my kids kind of way.

But I think it was just a thing that a lot of parents went through and probably still go through, especially, you know, with everything getting more expensive.

So there is a part of this that rings true to like, you have to rediscover that part of you.

You know what I mean?

The way I looked at him already at this time was that looking at the character as a whole, like what we know about it is that Peter doesn't remember his childhood at all.

It didn't start great.

I mean, he was just in an orphanage as it were, right?

And, and and all this and then he, he goes off to this magical place for, you know.

Who knows how?

Long right before he what convinces him out of his he falls in love, you know, So with, with, with Gwyneth Paltrow, which fair, you know, so, so I mean, you know, at the time it was a thing.

So we talked about Gwyneth Paltrow in Talented Mr.

Ripley.

We have opinions.

Yeah, and, and look, those are fair and, and but you know, Brad Pitt did shoot Kevin Spacey in the face because her head was in a box.

So, you know, that also happened.

That's sparkler, by the way.

So, But yeah, I, but I, I get that he's the whole metaphor, right, is that you forget your childhood and you become so obsessed with your career that you just get lost in it, right, Because you're trying to provide this life for your kids while not being there necessarily.

Or but I'm I'm with you, man.

Like I remember my dad worked all the time, but I didn't think that was anything odd because it's just what barons did, you know and stuff Peter in this case has.

He doesn't have much of A childhood to remember.

And if he did, how could you ever like you?

It would be hard to fortune as an adult.

Your childhood was Peter.

You were Peter.

I think though, that there is like something that I noticed especially like in like when I watched it today is is that what I did notice is, is that him as an adult, he still kind of occasionally throws as we'll get into later, like a tantrum, like a child.

There's definitely moments like that.

But one thing that I did notice that I didn't really pay attention to when I was younger is the stupid phone flipping put it to your ear game.

Like, I think that it kind of shows and, and there's other little things that I think Robin Williams does at the beginning of this film that shows whether or not he remembers he's still Peter Pan.

Like that game, that game, it's a weird game, but it's still a game.

I was just kind of was like, oh, there is some form of him that still remembers being Peter Pan.

But as is pointed out later, there's this weird muddling of is he still a kid of heart, or is he a pirate at this point in his?

Right.

And they bring that up because, you know, when they go visit Wendy, you know, Jack says.

In any resistance?

Any resistance?

He blows him out of the water.

And she says to him, Peter, you've become a pirate, you know?

Yeah.

Maggie Smith.

I texted this to Jay when I was watching.

Maggie Smith is responsible for an entire generation of children going.

How is that woman 90 freaking years old for three decades?

Because age makeup in this film on her.

So good.

Good.

Like you see, age make up a lot of the time it's friggin.

Bad.

Like you can use yeah, she was like a 50 year old woman in that movie.

She was not an 80 something year old.

And A and a young 50 too.

She was.

A Yeah, it's in I couldn't I?

Was watching.

It yesterday going I cannot get she looks the same in that movie as she looked naturally in the Harry.

Potter film was going to say there's a whole generation of people that only.

Even later in Downton Abbey.

Yes, yeah.

And, and it, the prosodics on her was absolutely incredible.

And I go back to the physicality because she fully gave in to the fact that she's like not able to move as much.

And that's how I knew.

Additionally, these were prosthetics because it's like she's gliding and movin and grooving in like Harry Potter and everything.

And just I have to give kudos to like, the makeup and the costumes and the hair in this film because it's phenomenal.

That's what I mean by this could be a musical because it's got that quality of like really good stagecraft.

Even the little play within a play at the very beginning, like you can tell the costumes that the kids were wearing were costumes that their parents made and it was built that way.

So it was just like T-shirts that were chopped up with scissors and it genuinely was supposed to be like a little.

It was so.

This is cool play.

It really was thoughtfully the like all of the costuming, it was thoughtfully done.

The opening of this movie, everything up until when after the abduction happens and Tinkerbell shows up, Spielberg says it's his favorite part of the movie.

He feels like he he had it under control at that point is what he said.

He said I knew what the story was.

He said did somewhere in the middle.

He said I just kind of lost what what we were trying to do and he said I didn't think it looked great.

He said not that the the stage work wasn't done well.

He said the crafts were good.

He said it just felt like a different movie.

And he said then the epilogue felt like it matched the first of the movie, where the middle of it is a different thing.

And I'm like, well, yeah, bro, you went to Never Neverland.

Yeah, right.

That's sort.

Of my point, yeah.

And that's what I would say.

And recorded that different.

Yeah, you went somewhere.

Else you went to you went to the land of make believe, which is right.

Like it's a magical fantasy world.

Of course, it became something different.

It's right, right.

But it is a start.

I mean, it looks different though.

You look at the movie and the way that it was shot and just the lighting and everything.

But I think.

It but then we should say Dane Conde is the cinematographer on this and legendary American Center photographer.

I worked with Spielberg a ton and he's responsible for that and.

Again, I think it's the right choice to have all of that look different and be lit.

I think it's 100% the right choice.

It shouldn't look like back in London.

It just, I don't know, I wow, that's an interesting critique to come from the people who made it versus.

You had three moons rising in one scene and when you're looking from like, like when Peter is flying, you can literally see the North SE and West compass on the waterline.

Like what did you expect was going to like you?

You're in Never Neverland.

It's supposed to be this fantastical world of of pirates and kids that never want to grow up, mermaids and fairies and Indians and things like that.

So of course it's going to be something completely, I'll say chaotic in a beautiful way, because that's kind of what Neverland is, or at least what most people would portray it to be.

And it's got, and it's got well, in just in terms of chaos, Neverland is full of kids from literally not just different decades, but different centuries.

There's kids in there that grew up, you know, there's kids there from all across time up to the point where when this was being made, you know, in 1990, going into 1991, there's kids that skateboard and play basketball there.

But that's because that's just the product of having people from the 1800s and the 1900s being, you know, so.

And again, kudos to the costuming because you could look at certain children and be like, okay, you're from this location or this location, but even.

Was an 80s kid.

For 100%.

Showed up there in 1987.

And.

And even like the foods, the dinner scene, which I'm certain we'll get to like, some of them were talking about specific foods that seem to be specific to their location and their time, which was also really wonderful as well.

Because I think that's something that I appreciated this movie for was is that, you know, in the books and most other Peter Pan renditions, it seems like most of the children are from a similar, like, age bracket, or at least when they're taken or not taken.

That's not the right word for it when they come to.

Yeah, when they're lost.

But this was great because it shows that even children that are lost like every so few years, it shows in their physicality and what they eat and what they wear.

Well, I mean, this is the theme in a lot of movies, particularly still Spielberg movies, is the resiliency of children, you know, and all the trauma you can go through and all the stuff that can happen.

You can compartmentalize and enough escape it enough if you've got enough people around you that are willing to go on the ride with you if you will, right?

Oh yeah, And that's, that's the whole point of the Lost Boys, right?

Is this finding camaraderie in the brokenness of it all?

Right.

And it still always comes out right because the Lost Boys in the original Peter Pan story want a mother.

Wendy is their mother.

She's there to do mom stuff for them.

But then even in this movie, there's the the, the kid that talks to Peter and he's like, you know what, I miss Peter, I miss my mother, you know, And at the end, Rufio was like, you know what, I wish, I wish I had a.

Dad like you.

He was like you.

I love that.

I loved that because like throughout the movie, as you pointed out, that like most of the revelation is, is that they want their mother.

Like even Peter talks about his mother and you know, even Maggie brings up like, he's a mean old man without a mommy and I want my mommy.

And then you have the situation where it's kind of an it's, it's sweet because it's like it's not breaking necessarily the parental need, but that Peter eventually becomes the parent, the dad that like Jack wants, which I think is really nice.

Because even though they bring up moms a lot, it's a story about fatherhood right?

Like he he has kind of forgotten and his happy thought becomes when he becomes Peter Pan.

All he ever wanted in life was to be a dad, which is why he left.

We find out is why he even left Neverland in the 1st place.

He left Neverland because he wanted to be a father.

He wanted to grow up and have his own children.

And so even though they bring up the mom a lot, it still comes down to like, this man has forgotten what it even means to be a father.

And Moira has that great line in in very early on in the movie where she says, Peter, your children want to be with you.

They want to play with you.

You only get a few years where that happens and then you know you're going to be chasing them around for some attention.

That and I don't have kids.

I don't think any of us have kids.

I don't have kids but that line because I have a lot of friends who do and I have a lot of nieces and nephews, that line hit and I never, I don't remember that from all the times I've watched it.

I have a Co worker who has teenagers and I remember him saying once in a meeting and we were you know doing that chat before a meeting thing and he goes I am going to every single thing I can possibly go to ever that my kids do because of exactly that.

He was like, I don't want to miss anything and I'm going to drive them crazy and I know it and I don't care.

I'm going to go to everything.

And that is the Steven Spielberg influence at this because at this point in his life, he did have young children, but he was gone for a lot of it.

And because he he was working and you can't really have him on the set that much, you know?

And he talked about that.

He said he felt like he needed to be doing these things because it would make their life, you know, what it is, but he missed it.

And, you know, I'm my dad even talking about like, and now, you know, that he's a lot older.

He talks about, I wonder if I miss, you know, some things.

I was like, not really though, because I felt like he was always really active and things, but from his mind he did.

I feel like all that comes from like there's an entire generation of men that are traumatized by that.

That song Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapin.

Yeah, the ultimate guilt strip song of all time.

You know, and, and, and there's some truth in it though, too.

This is like, you work really hard and you don't want to miss anything, but you're working hard, you're trying to provide.

And then all of a sudden, your kid grows up to be just like you, and that's where you fear, you know, and and we get to see Peter where he's got this big deal that he's going to blow or whatever, you know, And Edward Stuckey, Junior's calling him on the phone and, you know, deal with this in London while he's on vacation, which how many of us have not been dealt with a work problem on vacation?

I mean, yeah, it is.

And it's annoying but like his kids want a mess with him.

I want to play with him but he he yells at him and like he catches himself doing it too.

I hate that.

Well, Moira did, because she chucked his phone out the window.

Yeah, yeah.

I think so cathartic.

Who doesn't want to check a phone out the window from time to time?

No, I completely agree with you.

That scene drove me absolutely nuts just because I so my dad has his own company and like when we were growing up, of course, we only had the landline.

Cell phones weren't really a thing.

So like if and my brother and I were always were two years apart and we were always like playing around or we were in karate at the time.

So we were always sparring with each other and my mom would move us out of the room And I'm like, Moira, what are you?

You're just sitting there.

And, like, this was just my little small moment of being, like, maybe you should take them out of the room.

But then when she says, like, I hated the deal.

Yeah, but I'm also like, this is your husband's job at stake?

Yeah, you should move the kids out of the room.

Yeah, there is.

There's like a fine line in that though, right?

Because like, yes, it's his job, absolutely.

But it does reach a point where it's again, it comes back to like, dude, it's your job and it provides us a good life.

But this is at a point where like this is where it literally in another freaking country visiting a woman that's a 11 years old and could die in it.

Now that you haven't seen in like 13 years, you're here with your children.

Put the fucking phone down and let somebody else handle it.

I understand, but you've this is you know, it does reach.

It's also that point where it's like, come on dude, like you missed.

Also, the deal was killing the Owls.

Can we just talk about that for a second?

Of course.

They just fornicate somewhere else.

I don't know, but it's the 90s and we cared about the environment in 1991 and 92.

Yeah.

Fern Girlie told me everything.

Yeah, Fern Girl.

Yeah, we have Fern Gully.

We had the Rocco's Modern Life Recycle musical.

Yes, we had so much shoved down the throw in the early 90s about saving the environment and reduce.

Yeah, this had to hit.

Captain Planet.

Planet you and me.

That should be a special episode where we finally talk about our cast for Captain Planet.

I still have that reported sessions.

Wanting to happen because I got.

No, no, it already, it already happened.

We just didn't.

We included in Avatar, Yeah.

Well, it sounds like it needs to be its own thing, but what what I think is funny here y'all is we're talking about this movie and we're spending this huge amount of time in the opening.

So no kidding.

I feel like as adults we're all like really relating to this even though we don't.

Well, there's a lot I think to get from the beginning and like whether you are someone who's very well adapt to the book or if you watch the movies or anything like that, or even the the plays rendition of it too.

And as A, and I will say as somebody who has, you know, and I think all of us have, when Wendy came down the stairs for the first time, I got so teary eyed because just the way she looks at him and knowing, you know what, like as somebody who's watched this for like 3-4 times, just the absolute heartbreak of and I felt this way for her and Tank just being like, actually hashtag, everyone is obsessed with Peter, that is.

Something that.

You've noticed in this entire film.

He wasn't even that cute.

Yeah.

And any girl freed Robin Williams, which is like, that's a wild thing to think Peter can became become this little furry man.

Yeah.

So furry, Yeah, Honestly, it's so much knuckle fur.

He's.

The.

Man is furry.

Like I know watch.

On the Hudson sometime and just a lot of the fur is on display in the movie but.

I I did not know this until recently, but Dustin Hoffman's son, I believe Max is his name, is the one who plays young Peter that we see later in the series in the movie.

Because he had both.

Of his.

Yeah, he had both of his boys on set for this, and I think that his youngest was also a lost boy, but.

I don't he's a young Peter Pan and he's not the the 8 year old that talks a little bit.

He's like the middle of Peter Pan, Yeah.

Something.

Like that.

Yeah.

But his other kid, yeah, he had his kids on on set for this, which is.

I mean, there's something kind of meta about this, this whole movies about like not involving your kids in your work and the actors kids are in this Spielberg, you can't get your kids on the movie, I mean.

I also need someone to explain aging in Neverland to me because Peter aged from baby to.

What 12 and think?

About that.

Yeah, and none of the other boys seem to have aged.

That's really the plot hole.

And yeah.

That's a big question I had too.

But before we get to that, let's talk about how.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't think we need to talk much about the abduction.

I get Hook's idea.

He's obsessed with Peter Pan, like I said, like Bret Hart is obsessed with, you know, it turned.

Into a low key horror movie it.

Kind of been for about two minutes.

Yeah.

There's there's like a a British horror movie.

Well, I looked at this and I was like, this feels like one of those lost Conjuring ideas.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Kind of.

For sure.

Yeah, I think it was.

And also like this is just, I think also this whole scene is to show just how pompous hook is because it's like he had a very easy way to get in through the main window, but apparently he went down the stairs, dragged his entire hook going up the wall.

That was beautiful wallpaper, by the way, that he just completely destroyed and I was very upset about.

That yeah, I know.

But that you're never going to get that even again.

No, no, they probably don't even sell it anymore.

No, true.

And then he locked the door for Liza to like hear the kids screaming their heads off apparently.

And then he stole the kids.

Oh well, actually no sorry.

He put the sword with the paper in the door and then locked the door and.

Then.

Kid of the kids, you're.

Not wrong Ryan.

This is like a low key remake of When a Stranger Calls all of a sudden for like.

Five.

Yeah, Really.

Really scary, which is, I mean, Spielberg's always played in the genre anyway, so it's, I'm not surprised.

But I, I again didn't remember anything about when I watched.

I was like, this is a stark change of energy, like very quickly.

This is, this is kind of spooky, you know?

Even when the comforter was ripped off the kids and they're like like the Jack is screaming there and Maggie's just like oh I was like why am I getting poltergeist vibes?

Right now where they're going to get.

Sucked into the.

Closet I felt like Robbie's tree was about to attack.

Right, there's a clown under the bed that's going to grab you.

All of that and I give a lot of that again, I'm going to give a lot of credit to Dean Cundy for that, who also shot that too to go like, oh, so you want to do that again?

Got you.

You know, it's just redid the hit, which is fine.

It I mean, again, it's just a jarring change of you have this kind of comedic take of this dad he's put out by his own kids, even though he loves them and he doesn't know how to express that anymore.

All this stuff going on and, you know, we you kind of know who he is, but you don't know yet and they haven't revealed all of it.

And then you have this three minute horror movie.

Yeah, steals them.

OK, that we've done urban legend hook man, you know, and and then we get into the other part and and I've teased it early and I'm just going to say it right now.

Julia Roberts is a problem for me in this.

She really is is not a problem for me.

I give you what she's all about the fact that she's obsessed with Peter.

We can get to it's Julia Roberts and Julia Roberts was on a heater at this point y'all she come off Pretty Woman two big hits that year already and and look, they are warmed up lifetime movies, but that was before we knew what those were dying young and and sleeping with the enemy are are incredibly watchable $100 million movies like they don't make that adult drama stuff anymore like that.

And she was bankable.

So getting her to do this was a big deal, you know, and I remember about like, Oh yeah, she's a big deal to get to her and she sucks in this.

I'm sorry I tell me I'm wrong but she is awful in this.

She didn't like this movie.

Like she's been very hopeful about how she felt like not included.

She didn't like her costume.

She didn't like she didn't I, I didn't really notice it until this time around.

Watching that, I thought she was rather awkward.

I think I feel like I'm getting all the tea right now on Julia Roberts that I didn't know about.

I had no idea she didn't like this movie.

I remembered she was in it.

I liked her short Tinkerbell Pixie cut hair that worked really well for her.

I hated and I I mean I like it cuz I used to have that haircut specifically because I liked that haircut.

On.

Julie Roberts in this movie and then it got longer so also I don't understand hair growth in.

Never.

Yes, it's also very.

Well, so that's one thing for me.

But yeah, she has the same.

She has her several moments where she does her real quintessential like Julia Roberts, big open mouth guffaw of you know what I'm talking about.

That's very that's like a trademark for her, but.

Yeah, there are definitely scenes where I'm like, she definitely felt comfortable.

Like, I love the part where she's like, he doesn't believe in fairies and she's like lying on the ground, like being like a petulant child, which I appreciated.

But then there's other scenes where it's like, you can definitely tell that she's not feeling comfortable.

But Lindsay, I love the hair conversation that you brought up because one thing I noticed this time around is, is that when her hair did change, it looked like Moiras.

Oh, it did.

You're right.

Well, there's that whole thing of like, you know, he gives up being Peter Pan because he falls in love with Maura, who's Wendy's granddaughter, right?

And it's like he married this child.

Poor Wendy.

Poor Wendy.

I don't know that I needed that, though.

I don't know that I needed that as part of the story, you know, because there's no way to resolve that in any normal way.

No, no, no.

I don't know.

I she's, she's whatever in this movie.

She's.

Yeah.

Look, yeah, Lindsay, you talk about her hair and I'm glad you liked her hairstyle.

All I saw when I saw that was like this is Shelby Post Baby and Steel Magnolias.

Oh my gosh.

And it's Joey's baby and Sue Magnolias.

Did you have that?

I can't remember.

Did you have that haircut?

And Steel Magnolias?

I spoiled it.

You did?

Well, I had the wig.

Because I had long hair when we did I.

Remember the wig, but I I this immediately I thought of I was like this is Shelby.

It's.

Still I did not.

I did not even think about that.

But you are correct and to your original point of her not being great, I I do feel like in other versions of Peter Pan, the cartoons, the I don't can't think of any other version.

I don't know Peter and the star catcher, which is a play, but you know it.

I feel like Tinkerbell.

Is she.

She just feels.

Yeah.

Tinkerbell here.

Feel.

Yeah.

She doesn't speak.

She.

She has bell.

She's she makes bell noises.

She's ornamental but she is more of a character and somehow Tinkerbell speaking and hook makes her less of a character or feel like less impactful.

She's the magical Mac guffin that can fix everything and get everything rolling.

But because she has this unrequited love angle now, like we've given her story, she didn't need like, it's one thing if like.

This.

Is my best friend forever and you left me and I missed you because you're my best friend like that I could buy and go with the fact that she's like pining for Peter and how every time works on that interstellar planet of never Neverland that I I again I'm like I don't we needed that in this.

Yeah, but it's there in other family loves Peter Pan.

Like that I get, I get that.

I'm saying for this movie, I, I don't think we needed that go because there's, look, there's a lot of conflict that's going on in this.

Movie.

Oh, sure.

We didn't need that too.

Like Peter's got a lot of things to feel guilty about.

That doesn't need to be 1.

Of them.

Look, these ladies got the hots.

Yeah, they got the hots for Peter.

Well, even Dustin.

Let's be honest.

Hook, hook.

It's the hashtag.

Why are you so?

Obsessed with me.

I I when I was younger, I appreciated that Ting could talk because in most renditions, like you hear the the bell noise and Peter or the lost boys are translating for her.

So I kind of I think when I was younger was like, oh, this is some form of Peter that still acknowledged like can understand her and this is like through his eyes.

But she's she's the weakest link.

I feel like in this movie.

And they're like her scene later with Peter and the scene with Wendy where she's alone with Peter, where she's like, you know, on my wedding day, I thought you were going to show up and forbid my vows.

And I went oh, oh.

Yeah.

Still, are you guys gonna kit?

Oh, she wanted to.

Honestly.

Maggie Smith.

Wound.

That like you.

Felt what she felt.

In that moment and it was heartbreaking.

I know the whole thing, like whenever she looks at him is like, and that's why I was like, I was getting emotional at the beginning.

Was this because Maggie Smith just does a fantastic job with this because even when she's like Peter, how do you like my dress?

And he's like, it's, it's, it's lovely and just ignores her.

And it's just, it's so sad because she's still pining for him in some way, shape or form.

And that scene, I was like, is she going to kiss him right now?

And he gets kissed so much in this.

Movie.

Well, they were giving him air, to be fair, but that's what it.

Yeah, that's the reason.

There we go.

We're going to go with that.

Yeah.

That's the.

Reason #obsessed with Peter.

Why are you so obsessed with me?

Why are you so obsessed with me?

Right.

Yeah, it's it's.

See the only people that see the only people that were really in love in this movie were Hook and Smee.

100I.

Loves me.

OK, Smee rules.

I'm going.

To say right now, I said Bob Hoskins is great.

He is awesome in.

This the two of them.

Hands down between the two.

Of them, the two of.

Them consciously played their relationship like they were an old a couple of I believe that I believe the exact quote was a couple of old married Queens.

Yes, very much.

Really.

Just yeah, they made that work.

I can see him and Hoffman sitting over to the side going, you want to have some fun with this because these are two stage guys like so they're they're all about let's.

Play.

And.

They they're digging that that is, that is I'm sorry.

Show so well like in in a MO and like Spielberg was like says that he like kept it on the subtle part because it was a kids movie.

To which my retort on that is there were some things in this movie that were not for children and you were OK with showing that the old married couple.

I think.

I think.

It's married, Queen.

It's 1991.

I know, I know.

I know, I know, I know.

But but I hear you and you're not wrong.

It's it's the worst kept secret in the movie, but it's also like the IT was.

So what makes all of their scenes together fun?

Because.

So fun.

The hook The hook character could be ridiculous and kind of is ridiculous.

That's sort of the point.

But, and I am not a Dustin Hoffman fan.

I think he's a fabulous actor.

I don't always love what he does, but I feel like he, I think the phrase is understood the assignment, you know, here, like he got what he was doing and then he brought a lot more to it.

And then having Hoskins to play off of gave because I don't feel like he and Robin Williams actually are that great together in this.

They've done better stuff together.

I think they're not.

It doesn't quite work and thankfully they're not on the screen a ton together.

Hoskins is way more interesting with with Hook as a it's me.

As a character it's.

Way more but.

Yeah, absolutely.

I actually felt that Hoskins was giving more to connect with Robin Williams in this movie because he's the one who's obsessed with him.

Like he's he went through that grandiose kidnapping.

Yeah, like even like had like because there's that like there's a conversation of like Jack's baseball goes missing.

Like it like they've been keeping an eye on them for a while now.

And I think that what Hook or, or Hoffman is looking for in this is, is that he's trying to find a connection with technically at least for 1/3 of this movie or 2/3 of this movie, someone who doesn't exist anymore.

And it's like, you know, it's kind of, but like I think that he what I love about him and Hoskins is, is that Hoffman created, like they both created a character that's been existing without Peter Pan for a while.

Because that's the whole thing with Hook is, is that he's bored.

He has nothing else to do other than to sorry to die.

Because a bad guy needs a good guy and vice versa.

Well.

I mean, what's that?

That great scene with Heath Ledger in the Dark Knights?

Like I don't want to kill you.

I.

Wouldn't do anything.

Without you, you know the joke, you're bad, like no, And he's and I love that for that.

He's like, no, that's you gotta have both sides and I and I appreciate that about what they're bringing to the movie together.

You know, like they they just do they clear they're having a lot of fun and you know, and Dustin off of somebody who, when he's not having fun on a movie, you can friggin tell like this.

It comes through.

He does not hide it very well and when he doesn't like his Co stars you can find it.

Like, oh, sorry, not Sandra Bullock.

Julia Robertson.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, that's that's a good one.

But like, he clearly got what he was supposed to do.

And again, he he's the quintessential mustache twirling villain, you know, And he's obsessed with Peter and in this really unhealthy way.

I'm trying to give the therapy.

He killed the crocodile, So what else was to do?

What else could he possibly do?

Right.

Well, you know that the the Alexander wept because there were no more worlds to conquer.

You know there was nothing left to do.

Like, what are you going to do?

And it and he.

Take up knitting?

I don't know.

With that hook.

Yeah, just the no, he could he could have like a little crochet like needle or something as.

Look if he.

Has a baseball MIT somehow in that and he has a bubbly like attachment which I don't know exactly how that works without making a mess.

No, that that felt very transformery that we could just swap the hook out for things.

I loved when he was sleeping.

He has like a little night, like a little, like a little.

I'm thinking of like a nightcap.

People put on the.

Like Scrooge.

And then he had a cork on top and I'm like, yeah, I love that little.

It's the little touches in this movie that I think are so wonderful.

And that one just made me absolutely giggle because I would.

Be like.

Why does he have?

Oh, right, so he doesn't scratch his face.

See, these are the questions I always had about like when Freddy Krueger took a nap.

Like, did he take the glove off?

I mean, you'd think he would, right?

He sleeps.

With it behind his back or.

Something like that, yeah.

You know you.

Can't you're like, I don't know, I.

Mean in or someplace.

That's it.

Well, he can't sleep, so he invades other people's.

Dreams.

That's it.

He's got like a specialty carpal tunnel glove that he puts on.

He puts on a He puts on like a grill Mitt.

Or something like.

One of those Kevlar mitts, yeah.

It works because he was burned, so that's all that.

Yeah, that's the only thing that was safe.

That's.

All you know you.

Never know because he's got the glove on.

The entire.

Time.

I'll tell you the other thing that really works for me about the Neverland side.

I feel like they nailed it with the kids as the Lost boys.

And I don't know how they pulled it off, but they apparently, like cornered these kids off and got them to like learn.

It's like The Sandlot kids, they learned how to friends outside of the movie and then they just let them do stuff.

Very important question, who is your favorite lost boy and why is it thud butt?

I was going to say Thud Rufio was a follow up.

Thud is pretty good.

That kind of rule.

Especially when he can pull his legs up to.

His yeah.

And be a bowling ball, yeah.

OK, sure.

I yeah, no, I.

That looked very garbage pail kid.

I'm not gonna lie y'all.

That's what we were doing.

There.

I love that little kid, the one that really is the only one that stays on the side of the line.

Oh yeah.

I loved that scene.

And I heard an interesting theory not that long ago that like, even though he looks like he's maybe the youngest kid there, like what if he's actually the oldest kid there?

Like what if he's?

Near the line.

Why that?

Why, when he recognizes Peter, they're all kind of like, maybe it is Peter, Like, what if that kids like been there the longest, you know?

He talks like he's he taught like that.

Little kids lines, really.

I mean, he's been around for a while.

He's.

Basically doing like pulling your skin back like liposuction.

Yeah, he's trying to sleep.

Doing the facelift, yeah, yeah, the.

Facelift, weight gain and the Yeah, he's trying to see a younger YEAH.

And that's actually could totally believe that theory.

And I'm like thinking back to what was his costume during that?

Because I think that that really like.

He had like a little vest on, I think, yeah.

I mean, they were all cute.

They were.

I love that Robin Williams calls them like the I don't think this is exactly the line, but like, what's with the Lord of the Flies like.

Yeah, he references Lord of the Flies for sure.

Yeah.

Oh God.

I love Rufio's whole like get up director gone like punk rock, yeah, like he was cool.

Mr.

Skunkhead who uses too much moose?

Yeah, well, look, that's what Robin Williams called.

Come on again, this is a kids movie.

That kid gets straight up ganked and killed in this.

Movie.

Yeah, I love.

Dante.

Bosco so much.

He he was so.

Awesome in this.

How many kids movies or kids shows that are created now?

Like do people just die in?

I don't think that's the thing that happens anymore.

Oh.

Hang on.

I well, actually I watch a couple of animated series.

Hang on.

Wait, are they meant for children though?

Yes, because they're on Cartoon Network.

I don't think that counts.

But why wouldn't that count?

Cartoon Network's definitely more of an adult network.

Yeah, I.

Feel like that skews more adult.

I really agree with Lindsay on that.

OK.

OK, fine.

Well cuz like Archer, Archer is animated but that's not for kids but.

That's not on Cartoon Network, that's on Adult Swim.

Is Adult Swim not on Cartoon Network?

It is on Cartoon Network, but it

is only after I think 11:00.

At night.

I feel like I'm getting very confused now.

We're gonna have a we're gonna have AI do we're gonna have this conversation.

I, I, you know, it is definitely one of those things where I feel like in some animated shows, at least ones that I've watched recently, there is this.

Oh, they died.

Oh, they came back.

Yeah.

So yeah, Rubio was not going to come back.

I was.

Like, animation is one thing.

It's when it's real life, people are 3D people.

That's a different game.

And, you know, and look, Spielberg is this is not like this is new.

Like he, he totally let that kid in Jaws get completely destroyed in front of you.

Yeah.

And it would have been.

The worst if.

The special effects had to work.

So feelings about the the the final battle, because I feel like it was a fair battle if I'm being perfectly honest, but we can get to that later.

Eggs versus swords.

Come on, let's.

Talk about how they get to that point, like as Peter's trying to rediscover his humanity.

I feel like the only time, and you don't tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I feel like the only time they really let Robin Williams cut loose and beat Robin Williams was when he's getting in the insult fights back and forth with the kids, and he's like becoming a kid again.

Yeah, Yeah, 'cause I said before, I feel like Robin was a little handcuffed in this.

This is what I mean by this is I feel like he and Richard Pryor live in a spectrum where one of their greatest, like, superpowers is the way that they can weave profanity into things.

And when you take that away from them, it's you gotta have something real special for it to work, you know?

And, and Pryor never could do it.

Williams eventually figured out how to do it.

And I'm going to tell him when he's doing dramatic roles.

I'm talking about when he's trying to do comedy.

He got to where he could pull that off.

He pulls that off in Aladdin in a lot of ways.

There's a few little skirt lines and then Mrs.

Doubtfire is very risque, but but it's also a joke.

It's a tongue in cheek performance in a lot of ways.

And so there's a lot of it you wouldn't get if you're a little kid.

But yeah, this.

I feel like I'm like, man, I wonder like if there's just cuts.

And he's like, Steven, I just need to get it out.

These these kids are in Hollywood, they'll hear it.

I just need to drop a few.

And he's like, well, it's like.

Putting Joe Pesci in Home Alone, where eventually they were.

Chris Columbus had to be like Joe you.

Have the kids movie.

Stop swearing this is a kids movie, he.

Had to go around instead of, you know, being.

Joe Pesci.

He became Yosemite Sam in that.

Yeah, basically, yeah.

Because he just couldn't.

He couldn't be in a kids movie properly.

No, but but I mean, am I?

Wrong, though, in that, well, Robin Williams.

No, really.

His big break in the world was on television.

On broadcast television in the 70s, he was Mork from Ork.

I love that show he.

Knew how to.

He knew how to.

He knew how to behave himself in front of a camera in front.

Of a live.

Studio audience.

Yeah, no, no, I'm just saying like it's, it's like if he, you go back and watch the Eddie Murphy stuff from SNL and then you go watch his stand up.

I mean, it's a different world, you know?

I know I.

Heard.

Robin Williams stand up, it's very, very different.

I'm just saying I don't think it necessarily is him being handcuffed simply because of, you know, being Mork from Ork.

I know.

I kind of see where Jay is coming from because I think what is happening here, at least because I did notice this a little bit this time when I watched it, is, is that you kind of had like the Dead Poets Society, like kind of like Robin Williams at the very beginning.

And then you kind of have, it's not like the more childish version of Robin Williams.

And you have that that sweet spot kind of in the middle, which is the dinner scene, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

So I think what is happening is, is that because he's like kind of becoming an adult to a child.

There's that kind of like evolution.

And there were sometimes when when he finally was like, I'm a kid again, he was having fun.

But I thought some of his fun for at least when he was like playing with the Lost Boys.

I thought it to be a little mean, if I'm honest.

But if you read the book, Peter Pan is is a little mean like but he thinks it's in fun.

The original version of the play didn't even have a Captain Hook.

The villain, quote UN quote of the piece was Peter Pan Peter Pan is I'm going to come around and say it in in my favorite character in all of this, in all of the IT has always been and will always continue to be Captain Hook.

I'm a I'm a bigger fan of Captain Hook than I am of the character of Peter Pan.

I'm I'm not in favor of children being and run through with swords, but anytime it comes down to Captain Hook and Peter Pan, I'm like, yeah, you want to shake his hand with that Hook?

You go right ahead, Captain Hook.

Bastard.

Kid because Peter Pan is in and Peter Pan historically on film and on stage.

Of course, on stage Peter Pan is always traditionally played by a full grown woman, but Peter Pan in the in the original JM Berry novel is described as still having all his baby teeth.

He is a child child.

They typically portray him as preteen in most of the adaptations, probably for reasons of not having to deal with child actors.

Is, you know, but Peter Pan is supposed to be a child child.

So he's a child, child that has been left on an island to himself and is, you know, he's just a little brat, so.

In the books, like when Tinkerbell is is bullying or pulling, like is is like threatening Wendy and like pulling on her and things like that, he finds it hilarious.

Yes, Right.

Yeah, Most would be like that's inappropriate behavior, but no one's telling him to stop, so he thinks it's fine.

Well, he's.

Just a little kid, yeah.

Yeah, let's ask you this.

And Matt, you brought this point up, so it's a good time to ask.

Why is this movie called a hook?

Yeah, I don't.

It shouldn't be.

I mean, but I agree with you, that's the most interesting and clearly the person maybe next to Hoskins, who's having the most fun in this or whatever.

Why is this movie called Hook?

Because it's really.

Not about him.

I mean, it kind of is, but it's not.

He's just the inciting incident of things.

I I do think it's AI do think it's a, a misttitle.

Like it's not you're right.

It's still not his story.

I think I don't know what happened there.

I I probably because they didn't know what else.

My guess would be probably they didn't know what on earth else to call it.

Like grown up Peter Pan.

Like, what are they gonna you know?

Yeah, and Hook dies at the end.

I don't know, maybe they were like it's the end of Hook, so I mean slightly.

Different theory.

On the.

Actually, so the whole thing is about Peter being an adult and even the reference of him being a pirate, at least in my opinion with when you look at the pirates, they're they're childish adults.

It's like what happens when like, because in some like movie renditions, it's like if the kids still grow in Neverland, but when they get to a certain age they have to be moved into being a pirate.

Like I've heard that like.

Theory.

I have a theory.

I have a theory on that I'll come to go.

Ahead.

Yeah.

So I'm wondering if it's it's I, I know it's got hook in it, It's about Peter Pan, but it's, you know, there's always this story of like without Peter Pan, there's no hook and without hook, there's no Peter Pan.

So I think there's two parts of that.

It's like, is it because we've heard the story Peter Pan so much and that's usually the title that hook would be very compelling because everyone knows that without hook or vice versa, there's no either or.

And the other question is, is that if it wasn't for this scenario, would Peter Pan become Hook?

But that's my theory.

So, so here's my big theory on this.

I'll just go ahead and throw it out now.

I feel like at some point, if I'm on the same train, you are right, is that a lost boy can become a pirate if they choose the dark side, if you will.

But the cost of that is they do grow up and get older and you know, all that kind of stuff.

And and that's like, it's the whole point of this movie is that you shed your childhood innocence and you become the evil thing you hated when you were a kid, which is the absent parent, right?

That's the idea.

I have this wild theory that Hook and Peter Pan are just two sides of the same point.

They're they're the same person in some way.

And that all he's doing is destroying the parts of adulthood that have disconnected him from the magical part of life that his childhood.

That's what happens.

Yeah, but even with Hook, he's like, I want to, I want to fight, I want to like like, like his his dark twisted game like versions of games.

Like it's just these are these are kids that I think don't quite know how to be adults, but they are adults.

And like, there's that dark aspect of Peter that is in the book series that just, if you transition it a little bit, is an adult.

And I think 'cause you can see that a lot with Jack and Maggie because especially when Hook is trying to convince them to come over to his side, it's just this absolute dark version of whatever a child is worried about with having a parent like that.

Like that whole thing.

I didn't really like that didn't click until recently.

Especially when Hook is like, oh, mommy, Mommy reads you stories because she wants to go to bed so that mommy and daddy can have a moment because they were happier before you were born.

And like, you see that because there's a little Zoom in on Jack where he's kind of like, huh, Because that's something he's thinking about.

Right I.

Mean that's that's the, you know, what did y'all make of the fact that hook tries to like play father to Jack?

That, you know, it means me gives me the idea, right.

But it's just I'm going to turn his children against him, which is a brilliant idea, but it's really I'm going to turn his own son against him.

I'm going to do the cats in the cradle thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, 'cause Maggie was never going to say yes.

No.

That was true, yeah.

She's too like Cindy Lou Who.

I mean, she's not there.

She's she's Wendy.

I mean, when you think about it, she's the next generation of Wendy.

She was never going to say yes to Hook.

No.

This was this was next level psychological warfare on the on the level of I think these were adults that knew how to play mind games, or at least hook did.

And I think that that's I think that's I love the but I love the the kids grew up, grew up in air quotes to be pirates and never fully adults.

So I mean, yeah, whatever.

Kids play mind games all the time.

What am I talking about this?

Never.

Mind I came.

Back to middle school?

Yeah, so, but I think, I think I just, I kept getting the impression that it started with Hook wanting to turn Jack against Peter to get Peter, but then Hook started to really enjoy having Jack as a son or really enjoyed being a dad.

And I think you.

Know when they're playing baseball, they're having fun.

Yeah, yeah, he's really starting to embrace it.

I mean, he fully was like no, no, no, after the one person shot the guy who was trying to go for the next base and he's like, no, no, no.

No, no, we're playing.

Back after Jack's rules you.

Know.

Shoot people.

It was some good comedy though.

I.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I did.

I did feel like I, I had a little rumor this is there.

I was thinking about like, I was like Pirate Sandlot all of a sudden.

Oh, drunk pirate Sandlot, Because if you saw him before Jack showed up, some of them were like pure wedding and I'm like, oh, this is Dizzy bet all over again.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

It's Drunk Pirate Sandlot I'd.

Watch.

I'd watch that whole movie.

I think, I think we kind of Jordan for a round of drug pilots, pirates him.

Oh.

God, Lindsay will win.

I'd watch.

I don't think you've ever seen me play Dizzy Bat I.

Thought I have a funny story about.

Dizzy Bat, I'll show you later.

But no, probably Ron and Jay would probably win drunk.

About that, I don't know what you're saying about us, but OK, so.

Good things, I'm saying.

Positive things.

But it, it is that is the the manipulation, the idea of turning Jack against his dad.

And you get to see like, it's all these cuts back and forth in the big fight and stuff of like Jack watching his father as Peter Pan fighting hook and winning and losing and going up and down.

And he takes the wig off and he finally picks aside and all that.

Like, it's supposed to be this big heartwarming moment, but it just feels so Dang telegraphed.

I was like, yeah, I don't.

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I know.

I mean, it's kind of crazy because you're like, they were there for three.

Days.

Right.

And Stockholm syndrome somehow kicked in between day one and day three.

So day 2 all of this happened and I did have that moment of there's three moons.

How long is a day in Neverland?

That was my question, are we like it may have only been three days our time?

How long is Neverland time?

Exactly.

But they, well, we know that and maybe it's a time travel Y thing, right?

Because we know they come back a couple days, you know, within a handful of days because of when they come back, it's still winter.

We don't think it's a year later.

Everything looks pretty much the same.

But they talk about the magic of Neverland, and part of that is making you forget your life before Neverland.

Right.

So and then the magic of leaving Neverland is that you forget your life in Neverland, right?

So and somehow Wendy was immune to that.

But, and maybe Toodles kind of always remember too, I don't know.

But that that was part of the magic of it.

And we see Jack almost immediately start to forget.

Maybe girls are immune to it because Wendy doesn't.

Or not Wendy.

Wait, is that Maggie?

Yes, Maggie.

Wendy doesn't.

Yeah, Maggie.

Wendy.

They don't seem to forget the life before Neverland.

So.

That's what I was going to ask.

I'm glad you brought that up.

I had that question.

I was like, is this something that like the forgetful part is something specific to the boys?

And is that just trying to say that like this, the curse of manhood is that you have to give away.

I don't know which is stupid, but I'm I'm.

Just asking is that?

What?

Yeah, it could also.

Be it could also be like the trauma because like as well, because it's because like Peter talks about like he doesn't really remember his mother and when he does, it's like he was scared to grow up and and die.

So I wonder if it is, it might be specifically for the Lost Boys because.

But I don't know if that necessarily is true, because Toodle seems to remember everything.

I mean, he comes off as being odd.

We'll say odd, but.

Like he lost his marbles.

Oh yeah, that was he did lose him.

He got him back.

But but.

But like, that's the whole thing that really it's the thing that ultimately fully powers Peter back up is when he remembers the happiest moment of his life is when it's born his first kid, all that stuff.

And that's what allows him to fly again.

And he's fully, you know, he's full Scott Pilgrim on the, you know, high level at that point, right?

And and.

I.

Bought those several evil 7 evil exes.

Right.

I got lots of thoughts about those.

But, but yeah.

And they're mostly good, but, but yeah.

Killer soundtrack by the way, but.

Oh yes, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

We haven't talked about it much.

Like, you know, this is the, the music in this is, you know, it's just your standard John Williams on autopilot, it felt like to me.

Come on, standard John Williams.

I you know what?

Here's The thing is, is that I hear a couple notes of from this movie and I know the rest of it.

Yeah.

Something that is so endearing about it, it's.

Not a bad.

Thing it's just.

No, but I, I do think that like certain moments do depend on like the lighting and this and the wind.

Wind is very powerful in this too, which.

Is.

Lots of wind.

I like, yeah.

Well, I love Peter being like, my hair is like kind of like here.

And then when I'm flying, my hair looks like Julia Roberts and my wife's and and his wife Moira.

Everyone has this hairstyle.

Everyone's got some moose.

He's like, yeah.

All right, man, I think you were, you were responding to my John Williams comments strongest here, so.

Yeah, no, I love this score.

I think it's really good.

I don't know.

I mean, of course it's John Williams, so of course it's very good.

And I think saying it's just like him on autopilot, I don't know.

I think it takes away from just, I don't know, maybe go back and listen to it just by itself or something.

I don't know.

I just think it's good.

I didn't listen to it isolated, so that's a fair thing.

I didn't.

It didn't Take Me Out of the movie, but it was exactly what I thought would be in the movie.

That's not a bad thing necessarily.

I'm just saying like it's it did its job.

It was fun.

When I say John Williams an autopilot, I'm talking about Oscar nominated did exactly what you're supposed to do music.

It's not, it's not necessarily derogatory, but there wasn't anything about it that I felt like was memorable from.

Like if you're thinking about John Williams memorable scores, I don't think hooks going to come up on the list for a long while.

What would be your first one that comes to mind?

For Will.

I mean, you're talking about one like Star Wars jars Raiders.

You know those kind of.

Yeah, Raiders, like just iconic.

All you hear is a motif and it's like, boom, yeah, I'm there, you know, I'm.

Immediately.

OK, well.

I mean, when you've got this, I would have to think, what's that?

From again and.

You know, so, because it could be a lot of things.

I mean, not the pirate stuff, but that's kind of obvious, but just the standard score.

But like that what?

Was that in this?

I would have to think about it, you know, so, but it's fine.

It just I, I'm, I'm sitting here acting like it's terrible.

No, it's, it's fine.

It's it's OK.

It's not anything that just blew me away.

But you know, it doesn't have to all the time either.

Not everything's a a hit.

Danny Alfman.

Yeah, well, yeah, it's not that, that's for sure.

So not really weird enough to be Danny Alfman.

But no, no, someone is reviewed like an actual Danny Elfman movie or the Elfman family movie.

Like yeah, I believe me.

I I've experienced the strange.

Well, no, I just meant like there are certain like soundtrack, like there's certain like compositions that like come to mind and like they won't always be.

So like for me, I suppose like probably Corpse Bride would probably be for an example, would not come before like Nightmare, Nightmare before Christmas.

Or like.

Beetlejuice or Batman?

Literally the only two Danny Elfman things I can hum off the top of my head are Batman and Beetlejuice, and beyond that you've pretty much lost me on Danny Elfman.

OK, so like the first thing I'll go through with Danny Elfman is is only go Boingo and then back to schools to get dead man's.

Party.

Oh yeah, I can.

Do dead man.

'S party too, but that's not a score.

Just bought that.

Just bought that back to school vinyl last weekend actually there.

You.

Go did not disappoint.

That Jude Cole song rocks.

I'm just going to say that.

The whole the whole movie soundtrack.

That's awesome.

I've it was at a used record shot, popped in, saw it and we were like, well, obviously we.

Need take a picture that and send it to film strip Brian he'll get a kick out of.

That, yeah.

Seize the bottle.

One other thing I'll say real quick about this movie, and it's something that I'm I'm turning into an old man at this point.

We get to the end of this movie, and very early in the movie, the Lost Boys have no problem with the idea whatsoever of killing pirates, right?

And they are killing lawyer, they're going to kill Peter Rufio's.

Like, all grown-ups are pirates and all we do is kill pirates, yada yada yada.

It's at the end of this movie, and granted, I know it's a family movie, blah blah blah.

No swords for these pirates, nothing whatsoever.

They're throwing eggs at them.

They're throwing tomatoes.

Yeah, how are they killing pirates then?

Right.

Exactly, I feel like that was the fantasy of boys just talking about playing when it came down to it.

I would agree with you, but there is actually a part where, like in the movie, where some of them do have swords and the pirates are like, I yield, I yield, I'll hand it to you.

And they're like, wow.

And I'm like, I talk as a cannon, as a as a ball.

Now I can.

Keep back into my water.

Yeah.

And that goes back to my other grumpy old man type thing where obviously this is like a child's fantasy and whatever.

Like, I'm so sorry.

Those adults are mowing through those children if they're really dedicated to killing these children.

Adults with weapons and guns and swords are just mowing through a crowd of children and.

If we're really going down this path, they're not even really children.

Like some of these children are hundreds of years old.

This is true.

Well, you know, I feel that that, but I would counter that only with I'm sure the stormtroopers thought that the first time they saw the Ewoks too.

And then?

They know I'm just I.

Know.

I'm going to the.

Point in my life where I'm sick of like stories of kids rule.

All kids are smarter than adults.

Kids do.

Kids are fucking dumb.

So you hate Home alone, is what we're saying.

I don't hate them, I'm just like a kid.

Had a gun, A nail gun.

I'm.

Kind of like it just struck me this time that it's like.

Yeah, we're.

Kind of taking down these pirates after the IT again, maybe you're right.

Maybe it was just they were being all like big and tough earlier and they don't really kill pirates.

I don't.

Know, yeah.

No, this bothered me.

I would have been right there with you.

But then there is a part where it's a little bit beef.

I don't know if it's before or after Rufio dies, but Peter is right there.

And there are pirates just either dead or incapacitated.

Like just thrown about the.

Ship and I'm like.

What?

Yeah.

What killed you?

Yeah, you know what?

I looked at that.

I thought of that dream sequence Ralphie has in A Christmas Story where he shoots all the bad guys with the with the.

Baby with the baby.

Gun.

Yeah.

That like that sort of cartoony world you live in as a kid that was bad.

Like this is annoying when the children are able to take out the.

Adults.

With weapons.

If they had like pulled it like very similar to like the food fight in the dinner, like the dinner scene where it was like you saw like fun colors or something like that, I would totally be behind that.

And they kill Rufio.

Yeah, that that's the jarring part of this.

Is like.

If they had knocked him out, like he had gotten incapacitated in some way and he's like, Peter, you must carry on.

Or, you know, like that's what kill the kid.

Like man, no, that did not need to happen.

And it was on to get even stranger, because it is the the end of this movie does get the heaviest into the kind of fantasy dreamlike aspect of this movie because you know, they have the whole fight with Hook and Hook says to Peter, you know, you think you he's taunting him, but he's like, you know, you're not really Peter Pan.

You know, you're just a fat, drunk old old man who hates his wife and hates his children.

And you're going to wake up and still be that miserable Peter banning that you just are.

And you know, you think he's taunting him And then Hook the the stuffed crocodile comes to life for some reason and.

Bews green mist out of his belly and then hook.

But where does he go?

Because it's a dead stuffed croc.

And so it's like, I don't hate this.

I sound like I'm picking on it, but it's like it leans into that dream like quality right there in that last little bit.

Matt, it's funny you mention that because these are exactly the things Spielberg said.

He said I didn't feel like we had a good way of getting out of Neverland.

And he said, I still don't feel like like we do.

He said it it worked, but it doesn't it.

Will and that shows up at the very, very end, and we're not there yet.

Yeah, we'll get there.

But I felt the same way that like up until that point, I'm going with it for what it is.

Again, I'm like, OK, fanciful, whatever it's.

This is I think.

I think Jack got a little bit of pirate in him because right before Hook dies, you know that Croc is about to fall on him.

And the camera pans to Jack and Jack has this like grin on his face that he's like, this dude's about to die and he is happy about that.

And I was like, that's the most unhinged shit I have seen this.

I feel like Jack is that dark side of like Peter Pan, like that we've seen in the books and even in certain movies.

Because he's like.

Oh, I'm totally fine with throwing a baseball in an airplane and like, I'm totally down, Yeah.

Drew his whole family going down in a fiery plane.

I don't.

Even give his father a.

Exactly.

That might be a sociopath.

You would have made that work.

I would have loved it if Jack like had purposely caused the crocodile to fall.

That would have been a great idea.

That actually would have worked a little bit better for the way that they play, because they do play.

He's this little sinister monster.

I mean, that kind of works because like Jack is kind of that version of Peter and Maggie is that version of Wendy.

Like we don't get to.

See him?

That often, but that would would have been a great idea.

But yeah, you're right, Lindsay.

There were definitely some moments where they panned a Jack and I'm like, am I going to see you on Dateline in a couple of years?

I'm.

Genuinely concerned, right?

Now therapy is a must.

All right, Matt, get us to the ending here though of.

Course, yeah, because it it it's always sad.

The end of this movie is always sat a little weird with me.

It is.

And it's funny you mentioned Spielberg saying we had no good way to get out of Neverland because the end of this movie wants to have it both ways.

It wants to do the IT was all a dream ending.

But also it clearly happened because kids fly into their room, they wake their mother up.

They've clearly been missing for several days.

We see all of that happened to prove that they've been gone.

They flew in their home.

Now they've been gone.

But then Peter, who left Neverland, the last we saw him in Neverland was flying away in his Peter Pan, get up with his smashing green tights and and all wakes up outside in the snow in the clothes he was wearing the night he was taken by Tinkerbell to Neverland.

Smee is there as like a street sweeper, like homeless guy.

And Tinkerbell says something about, you know, that space right between sleeping and awake where you still remember what you were dreaming.

That's where.

And I'm like you, you can't.

And then toodles.

And then when Peter goes up, he still has toodles as marbles with the fairy dust in so toodles can fly away.

It's like you can't have it.

This is this is honestly, as much as I love this movie, this is my biggest criticism of this movie.

It can't be both ways.

Peter waking up outside in the snow and like having the IT was all a dream ending is completely out of place with everything else that happens in this movie.

Yeah.

What happened like a minute before he woke up out in the snow?

This I'm going to chalk up to Spielberg schmaltz, this is.

Yeah, feels.

Like.

It's just the thing he does and I sometimes I love him for it, but sometimes it's like I wouldn't been.

You know, I, I did like the idea of like originally like, oh, the kids know that it's real and Peter doesn't know if it's real or not.

But Matt brings up a very good point because it all just kind of falls apart because at first I was kind of like, oh, is Peter having a it's a wonderful life sort of moment And the kids know it's real.

And I would have loved that.

But it's like I said, as Matt brought up toodles is like throws the Pixie dust on him and he's doing spins around Big Ben at the very end of this film.

And it's like, OK, well, any thought about that kind of went out the window.

And everyone's laughing like they knew it was this the whole time and no one's like what is happening.

Yeah, this girl was totally down with it.

She's like, Oh my God, this is amazing.

I'm like you knew nothing about this, ma'am.

Yeah, this knows, Like those moments in Harry Potter when they try to do magic in the Muggle world is like, no, we can't, can't do this.

Is Peter Pan just a wizard that decided to go off into his own dimension?

People are asking.

It's a.

Philosophical question it.

Feels like and which.

One's in London.

There's probably like a great online article of what Which house was Peter Pan in in Hogwarts?

Gryffindor.

100% Gryffindor.

Because it almost could have had, like it could have had like A Christmas Carol type of ending, you know what I mean?

Like he wakes up.

And it's the same day.

And you know what I mean?

Like it was real, it really happened, but nobody else knows that it happened.

It really kind.

Of like.

It's that whole sort of like the whole allegory, right?

Is that did you go through this transformative experience that no, you can never possibly explain to anyone?

Yeah, but.

It makes you different.

That's it.

That's a tales oldest time y'all.

That's Jonah in the Bible.

I mean, that's the Google all the way, but it's you can't possibly explain it, but you're you're different from it or whatever.

I mean, it either works or it doesn't.

And that, and Matt, you've nailed it, is that this movie is trying to have it both ways when it could have just had it one way.

That would have been fine, right?

But.

Also, it was clearly real from the beginning because Wendy remembers going to Neverland.

She knows he's Peter Pan.

Moira probably is also aware that he is Peter Pan because one night suddenly a boy was kissing her in her room while she was sleeping.

Also there's there's like a creepiness to that that we probably need to address.

Yeah, there was.

There was.

He was just like, I'm just going to kiss her.

And I'm like, Wendy, you're not going to stop.

You're not going.

To say anything, Jay and Matt, you've clearly never been teenage girls.

I guess.

No, I'm just saying if I was a teenage girl with an open window and like, I don't know, Jonathan Taylor Thomas showed up at the end of my.

I'm passed out.

I probably would.

Right.

Yeah, but, but I mean, but I mean at that point.

That girl was comic Coach.

Her mouth was open like anything.

Like sleep.

Yeah, come.

On Oh yeah, yeah, but at some point it's not like he could suddenly not fly it.

I'm assuming it's not like he suddenly couldn't fly in that exact moment like I'm.

Assuming it was some.

Kind of process so Moira must have known like a flying boy like he was a.

Flying.

I don't know.

That's fair.

That's bad around.

All of this, like his sexual awakening, destroys his power.

I know.

Yeah, I know.

Wow.

Oh, kind of like.

Well, I wasn't thinking about that before, Jay, but now?

It's there, right?

Yeah, Well.

It's kind of like Chronicles of Narnia when the oldest sister puts, like, lipstick on for the first time or something like that, and therefore she can't go through the door again because now she's a crawl up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jezebel.

And indeed, she's just really like that pink shade.

Lindsay.

Leave her alone.

I don't know.

There's something too.

When Lindsay was laying out here, though, the way the way went, Father was laying in that bitch.

Like please come now.

Please.

Well, that wasn't Gwyneth.

Paltrow.

Gwyneth Paltrow was Maggie Smith.

She's like, she's got like her blanket like, draped across her.

Like, it's like, AI don't know if anybody's seen the animated movie.

Yeah, the animated movie Anastasia, where the woman comes out, that's like the fake and she's got the fur and she's like, boy, why are you crying?

I know she didn't say it like that, but still.

But still, no, you're on to it though, Matt.

The the ending of this is a is a problem for me because it's wanting to have everything its own way.

But again, I chalk it up to and now we're going to sprinkle this with Spielberg Schmalti.

Yeah.

And that's what that's what happens at the end of four of these.

Movies he's like salt bang his.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Spielberg Schmaltz.

I mean, it's there, y'all, it's there in a lot of his.

Not all of them, but it's in a lot of them.

Well, gosh, Lynns.

I mean, even though the story of West End Story is what it is, God, it's all over that movie.

Yeah, that's in the.

Archives, go check that we do not say it's name.

Ed, who shall not me name so me, you and poor Mike from amateur tours.

I think we started for life with that.

1.

Yeah, yeah.

Poor guy.

I just didn't like the remake.

I hated the remake.

I hated it so much.

We all three did.

Yeah.

Just destroy it but you.

Know yeah, I've had people ask me why and I just said go isn't the podcast.

Yeah.

At all.

Steven.

Steven.

Spielberg, I guess, finally got his musical since he didn't make Hook a musical.

He did that because his dad was a big fan of the original and he did it for his.

I know, I know.

And I think his heart it's.

$100 million homage.

I think his, I think his heart was in the right place and that's about it.

That's Yep, that sums that.

Up cast poorly.

But well, yeah, that's that.

Among other things.

Go listen to the podcast, there's a lot on it.

Go listen to Filmstrips review of West Side Story Ladies.

And gentlemen in the archives, wherever you find your.

Fun.

Now I'm going to have to go back and listen to it.

I don't even remember why I don't like it.

I just remember I don't like it.

Oh, it's, it's, it's there.

It's it's forever in.

Bed recording.

Yeah, but you know, it's not there forever at the end of this movie because we're at it now, and I think it's time to wrap up this show with final thoughts and popcorn ratings.

So what are y'all's for?

Hook?

Ryan, let's start with you, since this is all your fault.

Is it my fault?

Is it Jay?

It's.

Your idea it.

Was my idea, so technically it is my fault, but I dragged you 3 into it and technically it would have been a fourth person.

For Ron, I hope.

You're feeling better, so.

I hope you get well, but we got our 4th and Matt.

Hi Matt.

Thanks for coming on.

Always.

I there are some issues that I definitely like as we've brought up in this review that I have, There's certain things that I'm not the biggest fan of as I've gotten older.

I think maybe it's just because, you know, now we're now I'm reviewing that I'm being a little bit of a stickler for certain things.

And that being said, I still thoroughly enjoy this movie.

There is a special place in my heart for it, even if I'm frustrated with certain aspects, like more specifically with the end and with Julia Roberts.

But I love the beginning and I love the middle.

I think it is a great, it's not a retelling, but I think that it is something that is kind of lovely to see a story and what takes place after the fact.

So for me, I am going to give this a large popcorn, but it will say that it has a lot more butter in it than salt, more specifically at the bottom.

But that is my, that is my popcorn review.

Lindsay.

Oh my.

Gosh, I love this movie.

I still like it, even with the plot holes and the problems that we've all already discussed.

I think that, and I already mentioned this, watching it as an adult and also having seen it as a child and then a teenager, it's it's different as you grow with it.

It just, it holds different meaning.

But for me, it held up really well and I would absolutely recommend it.

I can't, if it would be, I can't imagine someone not seeing it.

But if you haven't seen it and you've gotten to this point in the podcast with us, just go watch it.

We've already spoiled everything, so just do it.

But I will also give it a large popcorn with like a big dollop of whatever that stuff is that they made the pies out of and their imagination in buffet.

You know, like, maybe like a dollop of cream with whip.

It's whipped cream with like where you take the the food dye and you like just completely tear open the thing and you pour it completely.

Out, hear me out.

I feel like it would be a really good salty sweet combination and I don't think the textures would be that bad right?

You've got a little bit of salted.

Caramel.

It's.

A salted caramel with food dye.

Yeah, I wonder if the whipped cream would stay whipped long in a hot popcorn.

Probably not.

Probably not.

That's.

An idea?

Hey, wait a second, Matt.

Who has?

Who has hot popcorn at a movie theatre?

OK, it's.

Always.

Cold.

OK, that's also what if you.

Take what if you want to be bougie and you take a torch to it?

It's kind of like a Creme Brulee sort of thing.

We picked a Creme Brulee popcorn.

Creme Brulee popcorn.

It's it's tie dye popcorn that you get like at those like fun little new, like new.

Places.

And the part is the gaffietti part of all of it.

But.

Yeah.

Matt was getting what I was putting down.

I know what you're talking about, yeah.

Yeah, Yeah.

OK.

All right, Matt, what about you?

I.

Mean come on guys, I I love this movie I picked on some parts of it, but you know I I do love this one like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, the the the poster is one of the movie.

I have several movie posters hanging in my home.

It's just all the movies I love.

I have posters hanging in my home.

And so this poster is hanging in my home.

It's wonderful artwork.

It's a wonderful movie in my opinion.

And of course, I mean, it's got some issues and I can overlook those, You know, I, I haven't grown so old and cynical yet, despite my describing myself as growing old and cynical several times.

I haven't grown so old and cynical yet that I watch movies for the problems of them.

I watch movies because I want to enjoy them.

This would make a great double feature with the remake of this film that came out a few years ago titled Christopher Robin.

If you've never seen that movie, that movie is Christopher Robin grows up to be a very busy business type person who has a job that keeps him away from his wife and kids and ends up back in the 100 Acre Wood having adventures with Winnie the Pooh who teaches him how to rediscover his child.

This and the importance of spending time with his family.

Also a very good movie, so check that one out too.

This is, you know, one of those extra large popcorn movies for me.

I'll continue to watch this one forever and ever so.

You know, I got to say, as I'm sitting here and you can't see this on the audio podcast, Matt is holding his hook very proudly right now.

So check out the the socials to that.

And I'm glad that y'all all love it and that you still can come back to it and love it again.

I didn't have any connection to it as a kid.

So, yeah, I've seen it twice now in life.

Right.

And I will say this about it.

There's a lot of emotional weight in it, particularly the opening.

I feel like the setup of this is great.

Like it really is.

It's it's a clever way of getting back into this story and how to get to it.

And while the middle of it is a little here and there and stuff, there's a lot of fun in it, you know, particularly because Hoffman and and Hoskins, as we talked about, are so much fun together and they do so much on the screen together.

And Robin Williams at moments you, you see what made him great, you know, and, and you get to do it.

And the kids are fun.

Like there's some fun in it.

We've we've come up with, you know, twisted ways to make it a little more interesting or maybe more psychotic.

I don't know, but a little.

But.

But it's, you know, Julia Roberts sucks.

We didn't, we didn't even bring up it's there's a scene where Captain Hook decides he's going to commit suicide.

It's one of the.

Best didn't.

Talk.

About that, you know my life is always don't try to stop me this time, Smee, don't you dare try to stop.

Me.

Don't Smee try to stop me.

Get up off your ass and get.

Over here I'm committing.

Suicide.

I love Smee because he's like not again.

Yeah, again, they're they're great together.

They really sell a lot of this.

They're such a great couple.

They are, They are.

They're cute.

They're a cute old couple.

Yeah, I like that Jim Roberts sucks.

It's not entirely her fault, but she's terrible in this and and the whole thing they do with Tinkerbell is terrible.

I just didn't need the unrequited love.

Oh.

My God, we never even talked.

Another thing, we didn't even talk.

How did she suddenly grow big?

She had magic powers.

We talked about that magical fishing.

She.

Did poor Tinkerbell though, because she's like kissing him and he's like Moira had the look on her face I'm.

Like, yeah, that's men.

How to win a woman's.

Heart.

No, Wendy went through that too.

Yeah.

But the thing about it, this movie, the one that's against the finale, it just the only thing holding it together is if you've got nostalgia for it and vibes because it's a big swing.

But it's messy for me in the end.

And it just it just misses the landing.

And that's rare because Spielberg usually sticks him like it.

You know he's not Stephen King, No offense bat, but where he doesn't stick the landing so much.

Someday I don't even know.

That's a myth, and you're going to get me started.

And we don't have time for that tonight.

There's there's 10.

We can make time for a mat rant we.

Call it a mat rant.

Some time out.

They're legends.

Just.

Guest stars and they rant.

This this bag, this podcast is long enough as it is.

Yeah.

And and that's the other thing about this movie.

I feel like this movie is 20 minutes too long.

Like I feel like you.

Could it is a little?

Bit and it would be lean and it would work and it would completely work if you could.

I don't know how you got to somehow fix the ending where it doesn't seem like they're having their cake and eating it too, you know, like we talked about.

That that doesn't work for me, but it's not terrible and I'm glad I finally rewatched it after all these years and it it is completely watchable.

It is fun.

I could see people having a lot of fun with this.

I actually had some fun with it even though I didn't love it the way y'all did.

I'm going to give it a really strong medium popcorn.

But like that I caught it the first matinee where it's fresh like they had to re pop it, you know, for the day.

So I've got, I've got the fresh medium and it's just the right amount of of butter and salt through the middle to the ending of it though, like I've still got some old kernels from yesterday.

So that's where I kind of just put the bag away and I'm done.

So, but it's, again, it's not terrible.

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen by any means.

And it it works except when it doesn't, which is the end.

But it's fine if if you let that go and you just let it wash over you, it's totally fine and it works.

But what really worked was being able to talk about this with y'all.

It's been an absolute blast.

Ryan, again, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for bringing a fun one to to start the the fun with here.

And hey, we're kicking this off in December and somebody on this podcast has a book that's really timely for this time of month.

So yeah.

I sure do.

And I I mentioned this the last time I was on the show.

Boy, I feel like a fraud every time.

And I know I'm not because I wrote the damn thing.

And it's actually, it's something people can buy.

A Christmas book, everybody I wrote.

It is titled Santa in His Own Words by Santa Claus, with help from Matt Spaulding.

It is out there.

It is on Amazon.com.

It is on barnesandnoble.com.

I believe it's even on target.com.

I've got to check where it got.

Distributed.

Nice you.

Can.

Find it out there.

I'd I'd sure appreciate it if you bought it.

I hope you enjoy it.

And if you do enjoy it, please leave it a a review wherever you bought it.

It helps other people find it and believe me, I'm a self published author.

I'm promoting this book.

I make like a dollar off of every copy sold or something stupid like that.

I'm not doing this to make money, I just I'd like people to read it and enjoy it so.

We're always glad to have you talk about that book.

It's it's a good thing and thank you need to be able to have done something like that.

That's that's a medium I've never conquered.

So I I think that's a tremendous and Matt, tell folks where they can find you swimming around on the internets.

If you want to hear me chatting with my buddy Justin about all things just general pop culture, toys, comics, movies, TV shows, you can find us at Two Bro Geeks Podcast.

Our schedule hasn't been super regularly, unfortunately.

We live in different time zones and I work mostly days and he works mostly nights.

So it's kind of hard to find on time to record.

But we still do put out episodes where we're getting up there towards episode 400, which you know, will probably be I think next year.

So.

Fantastic, fantastic.

Well, again, it's been a blast having you on Matt as.

Always.

We'll be here.

We'll definitely have you back on again, maybe for something more contentious like one of the 50 movies we've referenced sometime tonight, so or, I don't know, I may open up the Stephen King vault again one day when I feel real froggy, but that's a long time ago.

But but hey, folks, of course you can find and follow this show on social media at Filmstrip Pod.

We share announcements about upcoming shows and all kinds of other stuff.

Don't forget to subscribe.

Hey, check out our YouTube channel.

Sometimes you can see video podcasts of us.

Sometimes it's just the pod there, but our entire archive is there.

So check all that.

Of course, everywhere you can find podcast, you'll find us.

And as Matt said, we'll echo it.

Leave us a positive review helps other people find the show.

We are a completely independent podcast.

So we are we are completely by word of mouth.

So if you like it, share it.

And if you don't, keep that to yourself.

It's holidays.

Be nice.

But but if you do like yeah and stuff, please leave us a review.

It helps us feel really good about ourselves.

We've got some fun things planned for the rest of December.

I'll go ahead and tell you now.

We're coming up on a big James Bond anniversary.

And our buddy Carmelita Valdez McCoy and I recorded a very special episode of a Bond movie that is coming up on the 60th anniversary.

So that'll be out soon.

And then we've already got it in the can.

A super fun film strip sessions where we talk about favorite genres of Christmas movies.

Matt, you're on that with me and Ron and Lynn's.

And so that'll be fun.

And then of course, we are going to get into some holiday trash before it's new Year.

So just sit tight and get your Jamie Lee Curtis fund ready.

That's all I'll say about that.

And that we'll we'll be back again soon, but lots more fun down the road.

And of course, if, if those things aren't to your liking, no worries, 400 plus episodes in the archives.

I promise you there's something there you like, something you've seen before and we would appreciate it.

And hey, check us out on other shows too.

Ron Linds and Matt and Matt are all the you're fortunate enough to have friends in the pod world that bring us on the different shows.

So catch us on that.

If you're curious what those are, just look at our social media.

We retweet those and repost them and then we'll you'll get mentioned about those as well.

So until next time, thank you so much for listening to film.

Strip Thank you for listening to Film Strip.

You can find more episodes on our website, filmstrippodcast.com.

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