In a courtroom in Melbourne.

Today, Justice Christopher Bill made a ruling.

It didn't take very long, but it was very important in the case of Aaron Patterson because throughout the trial there was information the jury never got to hear, and for the first time we can tell you all about it.

I'm Brooke Greebert Craig and this is the Mushroom Cook.

Hi Laura, welcome back for another podcast episode.

Good to be here.

So today we'll be touching on everything that the jury didn't know.

And I will just say from the top, I have been waiting months to talk about this, so let's get it underway.

So it all goes back to the pre trial hearings that US journalists are allowed to sit in on, and these happened throughout late last year and early this year.

So all of the lawyers came together as well as the witnesses.

They were brought in one by one to give evidence in these hearings so the lawyers could hear what they had to say before the trial kicked off.

After they heard from all the witnesses, everyone came back for some dense legal argument.

And this legal argument was really about the defense team trying to get evidence thrown out of trial.

But on the other hand, it was the prosecution fighting really hard to make sure it stayed in.

So after all of this discussion was over, just as Christopher Beale came back and he delivered his rulings, and he was effectively deciding what would stay in and what would stay out.

Everything that stayed in was all of the evidence that our listeners would have heard us speak about over the course of the trial.

But now we can talk about what was kept secret from the jury.

Okay, let's get into it.

Let's go back to the lunch.

The jury heard that Aaron made one trip to the tip to dump that dehydrator, but what they didn't know is that she made a trip to the same tip on the day of the lunch.

Yes, and this was something that we learned at pre trial.

So, as you said, Brook, she dumped the dehydrat on August two.

But if we rewind back to the lunch on July twenty nine, the guests left at around two forty five.

Ian said that he had to tend to some church duties, so everyone jumped in the car and they left.

What we found out was that forty five minutes after they had left Erin also departed her house and she went to the Koonwarra Tip and what the prosecution said she did was dump other items from the lunch.

One of the other Crown prosecutors, Sarah Lenthal, said there was an element of secrecy about this trip because her son and his friend were at home at the time and she didn't tell them that she was leaving to go to the tip, and Miss Leenthal said that was an unusual occurrence.

She would usually always tell her children when she was leaving the home, even if it was only for a short while.

And I guess one would think if you're not telling your child where you were going, then it's usually something that you don't want them to know.

Potentially, and that's why miss Lenthal said there felt like there was an element of secrecy around this trip, so she fought really hard for the jury to hear this.

The prosecution wanted the jury to know that only forty five minutes after hosting this lunch, she was at the tip disposing of some items.

Thought mister Mandy argued was we actually didn't know what she dumped at all.

The business records from the tip stated that some cardboard was left by Erin, but we have no idea what else she left.

So he told the court that what she could have disposed of that day could have been completely innocent.

He said it was in the realm of speculation, and I think the words he used were it was just a visit to the tip.

So for this reason, he said that the jury shouldn't know about this trip.

It should stay secret because it was going to be too unfair to his client.

So you're telling me Aaron went to the Tip of forty five minutes after her guests left that deadly beef Wellington lunch.

Yes, and the jury had no idea.

In fact, there was actually a discussion in the middle of the trial in the absence of the jury, where they were debating how they should redact these business records from the Tip to hide that trip from the jury.

Now, let's talk about the charges relating to Simon that were dropped.

So this happened at the very beginning of the trial.

I think it was our second podcast episode where we brought to our listeners the news that three attempted murder charges that Aaron was facing had been dropped by prosecutors.

The jury were told on the first day that these charges had been dropped and they should put them out of their mind.

They weren't going to form part of the trial.

To justice Bee really emphasized that they should not be turning their minds to them.

But the jury didn't hear any contexts as to what the charges.

Were, none at all.

They only heard that there were three charges of attempted murder.

And you and I were sitting in court, and all of the other journalists as well, we all knew that context, but we couldn't quite talk about it yet.

And we knew that context because that's something that we all heard in pre trial.

What we knew but the jury didn't know, was that on three occasions, Simon said Erin tried to kill him by feeding him poisoned food.

He told the court during pre trial that he had stopped eating Erin's food because he believed she had tried to kill him on these occasions while they were camping in the Victorian Bush.

I think it's interesting to point out when they were camping, they were actually separated, so they weren't together.

Yes, that's right.

So these camping trips took place in November twenty twenty one May twenty twenty two and November twenty twenty two, all before that fateful lunch in twenty twenty three.

Our listeners may remember that when he was asked at trial why he didn't attend the lunch on July twenty nine, he simply said he was too uncomfortable.

He gave no further answer to that question, and he wasn't allowed to No, he wasn't.

He had to essentially keep his lip sealed because all of this information about happened to him wasn't to be heard by the jury.

But I will say Brook, you were on top of this before many other people were.

You were recovering this story in the days after the lunch, and you discovered that Simon had battled a mystery gut illness in May twenty two.

Yes, that's correct.

So if I take us back to August twenty twenty three, when the story broke, I was in leng Gatha looking into it a bit more, and I came across a post that Simon made on Facebook in a local community group where he spoke more about this mystery gut illness that he was suffering from.

And obviously, at that time two years ago, we didn't have any of the contexts that we have now, But we ran that story and other media outlets followed, and in the following days, I received a tip off that actually came to my inbox, and I had a source that said that they knew more about Simon's mystery gun illness, and this person told me that Simon believed that Aaron had tried to poison him on multiple occasions.

I trusted this source and we ended up running this story.

So for me personally, it was very interesting to find out more of the contexts of Simon's illnesses, knowing that I had written these past stories.

And in terms of the timeline, Aaron was charged in November twenty twenty three over the lunch, but then there were these three attempted murder charges relating to Simon and these camping trips.

But what we then found out in pre trial was there was actually a fourth meal she fed him that he said made him sick.

But we'll let our colleagues veteran crime reporter Anthony Dowsley and court reporter ash Argoon, who our listeners heard from in season one, talk about this more in detail in another episode.

Another interesting thing that came out at pre trial is that Simon said that he had had multiple media inquiries with publications asking him to tell his story.

Yes, and he said that he may sell his story for considerable financial reward were the terms he used.

And he said that could take the form of a major interview, a book, or even a TV show.

So we'll have to wait and see really whether he goes down that pathway.

Who will.

So we've heard that these were alleged poisonings.

Why were these charges dropped in the end.

That's a really great question.

During these pre trial proceedings that we've been speaking about, Crown Prosecutor Undernette Rodgers fought really hard for all of these charges, so both the lunch charges and Simon charges to be heard together by the same jury.

But simply her argument was that when all of these circumstances were heard together, they provided context for one another and the jury could take a step back after hearing all of this evidence and come to the conclusion that all of this could not be a coincidents.

It could not be a coincidence that Simon on three occasions and his relatives at the lunch all fell ill from eating Eron's food and it be an accident each time.

So that was the argument that was made by the prosecution.

But the defense argued in reply that for all of these things to be heard at the same time by the same jury, it would be too unfair to erin, it would be unfairly prejudicial.

And they particularly argued this because we actually didn't know that much about these illnesses that Simon suffered when he went to hospital, particularly on the first occasion.

They didn't run every single test under the sun.

And like we just said, the prosecution didn't even know what poison may have been used on these occasions.

So there was simply not enough evidence, which is why Justice Biel decided that the Simon charges and the Lunch charges be heard separately in front of two different juries.

Once that decision was made, the prosecution actually went up to the Court of Appeal try and get it overturned, arguing again that this should be heard by one single jury, but they failed once more.

It was at that point that they decided they had no other choice but to drop the charges relating to Simon.

Now, Laura, let's talk about the swirling speculation that was taking place within the community twenty four hours after the lunch occurred.

So, as I mentioned, at the top of the episode.

More than a dozen witnesses gave evidence in these pre trial hearings, and we heard a lot from them that they may not have been able to touch upon at trial where they had to keep their lips sealed.

And a lot of these suspicions were the things they weren't allowed to touch on because they started to relate to these alleged poisonings of Simon.

It would have been really difficult for these witnesses to not talk about these particular aspects of their evidence exactly.

So before they were giving evidence in the trial, they were actually getting briefings from the prosecution, and you can imagine in these briefings, the prosecution are reminding them, remember you can't talk about X, Y Z.

So when I ask you a question about something, remember not to touch on a certain element.

So they were almost self censoring in the moment, making sure they didn't put a toe out of line.

Let's talk about what Simon told Ian and Heather.

So Simon told the jury that the day after the lunch he went around to Heather and Ian's home to check in on them because his own parents, Don and Gale had fallen very ill after the lunch.

When he arrived, he described that Ian looked gray and looked very sick.

What the jury didn't know was at that time, Simon was honest with his aunt and uncle and he told them what he believed had happened to him.

He divulged how sick he had become in the past from eating Aaron's food and said to them that he was worried the same thing had happened to them.

He really urged them to get to hospital as soon as possible.

Ian did tell the jury at trial that when Simon came over, he explained to his nephew that he thought it was just gastro and they were going to wait for it to pass.

But he didn't touch on this conversation he had with Simon about his suspicions.

But at pre trial he explained that even after hearing this from Simon, him and Heather still resisted going to hospital, and it was only after Simon called a doctor or nurse on call over the phone that they relented and decided that they should go to hospital.

Now let's talk about doctor Chris Webster.

He was one of the doctors who treated Ian and Heather when they were in hospital.

And he also spoke to Aaron as well.

Yes, that's right.

And to remind our listeners, doctor Webster was the person who made that triple zero call to police when Aaron left the hospital for the first time after only being there for five minutes.

So to take a step back, doctor Webster told the court at pre trial that he had started his shift on July thirty, the day after the lunch, and he received a call from an old colleague of his, doctor Chris Ford.

So we've got two doctor Chris's here.

Doctor Webster works at len Gatha Hospital and doctor Ford is a GP and doctor Ford was Simon's GP.

He was treating Simon for a number of months and it was over that period that Simon was telling him about his suspicions around Erin and the food she was feeding him.

What doctor Webster recounted was doctor Ford ringing him up to alert him to the fact that he believed all of the lunch guests had been deliberately poisoned.

He told doctor Webster to keep a really close eye on the guests that he was treating because it was not a case of common food poisoning, but he suspected it was something much more sinister.

He said that at the time he remembered thinking to himself, this is very bizarre.

He had just started work and all of a sudden he was in the middle of what was shaping up to potentially be murder.

He then went on to reveal what he said to a colleague that day.

Doctor Webster was being asked about this at pre trial by Aaron's defense barrister.

This is what he said to him at pre trial.

He said to mister Mandy.

It was a private comment to the nurse, and it was a facetious comment.

So it's embarrassing to say, but you want me to tell you.

At this point, mister Mandy beckoned him to keep going.

This is what doctor Webster said.

He told his colleague, I said, it looks like someone's trying to take out the church community.

So some might say that that was just a throwaway comment, or others might think that Dr Webster had suspicions quite early on.

Exactly, And he said in court he was a little bit embarrassed that he made this joke, but the comment really does give you an insight into his mentality at the time and what he thought might have been going on.

He then explained what happened the next day, on July thirty one, when Aaron herself arrived at Lengatha Hospital, tensions were clearly high.

So when Aaron walked into the hospital and told doctor Webster her name, he said he knew exactly who she was.

He said he realized this was the chef of the lunch who had potentially just tried to kill all of her guests.

As we know, Aaron left the hospital after being there for five minutes.

At trial, doctor Webster said that when Aaron arrived at hospital, he told her that she had potentially been exposed to lethal deathcat mushrooms, but in the back of his mind you can imagine he was thinking she was not a victim but a killer.

Okay, finally, let's talk about files that were found on Aaron's devices.

Investigators search through Erin's devices using some keywords to help them navigate through everything, and remembering one of these keywords was poison.

So one thing that investigators stumbled upon was a chapter of a book that was located on a tablet that was seized from Aaron's house.

The book was called Criminal Poisoning and the title of this chapter was some common homicidal poisons.

As you can imagine, this really peaked their interest.

This chapter detailed the color, the odor, taste, lethal dose of a handful of poisons, where talking anti freeze arsnick even cyanide.

What it didn't touch on, though, was toxic mushrooms.

Beyond this fact, mister Mandy argued that there was no evidence that his client downloaded this file, whether she read the file, or if she did read it, how much of it she may have read.

But he also said that any interest his client may have had in poisons could have related to the fact that she was involved in a true crime group, that being the Kali Lane group, and he said that when she was discussing true crime with her friends where poisons were maybe part of the plot, she may have had to do some research.

We heard that she was a very good researcher, and he said that she was quite widely read.

But in response to that, Justice Beale remarked that a lot of people who are widely read aren't looking up poisons.

But Klly Lane didn't poison anyone, did she.

Yes, Kelly Lane is no poisoner.

She was found guilty over the death of her baby who disappeared but we've come to know now that in this Kelly Lane group, all of the people involved were talking about a lot of true crime, not just the Kellilaine case.

And mister Mandy said that Erin might have been looking up poisons as part of the plots of the crimes they were discussing, remarking that she was widely read.

But Justice Biel said to him that a lot of people who are widely read are not looking up poisons.

Nonetheless, evidence of this file was never put before the jury.

And where any other files found.

There was one more of note, and this was from a Victorian naturalist journal, so a journal focusing on a lot of the natural world.

And one article that got police's attention was called an overview of the Fungi of Melbourne.

And this article was written by one and the same Dr Tom May, who ended up being a prosecution witness in the case.

So clearly Erin may have already been familiar with some of his work.

In this article, there's a photo of death caps and some description of them.

But mister Mandy brought Justice Bill back to the fact that the prosecution couldn't say whether she read this article at all, So it was also kept secret from the jury.

Now, that's a lot of information that we have spoken about, and I'm sure people would be thinking, why didn't the jury hear this exactly?

But to put it simply, trials are about what the prosecution can prove.

Ultimately, Justice Bill decided that the prosecution simply didn't have enough proof.

Not enough proof to say whether Erin downloaded these articles, whether she read any of them, whether she definitely poisoned Simon, and no evidence to suggest what she actually dumped at the tip.

So to avoid inviting speculation, it is simply fairer if this evidence is not heard by the jury.

Thanks Laura, And as we said before, we'll have an episode tomorrow about Aaron's charges relating to Simon Patterson, so stay tuned.