What's up, body, people, and welcome to Countdowns, a classic where it's not my opinion that counts but yours.

Hey, everyone, thanks so much for joining me for another episode of Countdown in classic.

It's so wonderful to have you all here.

And we've got another three hours about guess what old Countdown on Project epochs.

So, guys, the messages keep pouring in.

I'm not just saying this for shits and giggles.

You guys keep joining the discord or dming me or just saying in what the Epoch channel like.

All right, Josh, fine, you finally broke me.

I've been listening for years and if I have to listen to one more minute of this epoch stuff, I'm going to lose my shit.

So that's it.

I'm just going to come and join you over there on the server, and more and more of you continue to roll on in, and it's so wonderful to continue to bump into people who have been with the show since day dot, which is just phenomenal.

Look, guys, we're having a lot of fun with the guild.

There's some wild stories out there.

There's highs, there's not really many lows, but more just like funny shit that's going on.

A lot of it is me being stupid, which you know is part and parcel of the whole deal.

But look, everyone's having a great time.

And look, we'll keep podcast recording.

Sorry, we keep recording these podcasts every weekend.

Get in with the guild, Come meet the guys that you're playing the game with.

It's a global server.

Twenty four to seven.

All the Countdown people are getting together and saying gooday and meeting the people that they've you know, shared a love for the content with over the years, and have for some reason put up with me for all this time.

So get involved.

Guys, listen to this episode, Please do enjoy it, and I'll see you at the end.

Bye.

All right, it's time for another Countdown to Classic once again.

As you all know, we are focusing on Project Epoch and I continue to get people popping up in the Countdown discord, sending me dms, not that many dms, but mostly just talking publicly in the discord about how they've gone.

That's it.

I've had enough of you guys talking about Epoch on the show.

I've caved and I'm rolling a tune there.

And it's been wonderful to see more and more people to sort of go, fuck if this, if this, if this guy is just going to keep talking about this fucking server.

I want to see what all the hubbub is about.

And it's it's still happening.

You know, people are rolling new tunes and joining the guild and everything, and it's great to see the countdown Leviathan continues to grow and everyone's having a great time still in the guilds and in game.

Just you know, if you haven't done it yet, just give it a look.

It's it's literally it costs you nothing, it's you know, harmless.

Just go and have a try and see what you think of this erver.

In the meantime, I'm sitting here in a room full of what is what, nineteen of us including me, which is fantastic, all sitting here in general voice on a lovely Saturday morning Australia time, Friday evening, Europe and America time, you know, the rest of the world, North America, South America, Europe, all that stuff.

So I was just figured we'd throw it to the wolves and get started, and guys were going to keep it pretty casual.

Today, I do want to do another Kangaroo Court.

I do want some more stories of triumph and tragedy, but also we will talk more about you know, I'm interested to hear more thoughts about the game.

We're gonna hear more from people who have devoured more of the level sixty content, you know, lads and the boys will be doing a bunch more dungeons.

I finally did sixty, which is, you know, really great to kind of shake that monkey off my back.

My walk is up there now and able to do endgame content, and yeah, I just want to talk more about, you know, what people are experiencing, you know, what kind of bugs they may still be encountering that need work, what kind of loot they've found, what kind of you know, not so much going in on the meta, but what differences they've noticed between how they played their classes at Max here versus other servers in the past.

And we'll just shoot the shit and do it all guys.

So look, I'm not gonna really call out anyone specifically, but I will throw it to the group and we'll go first in best dress.

Guys, Please don't be shy.

I know it's you know, the recording of the podcast and people get a little bit shy when I start to do that, but it is still just general voice, just everyone fucking talk and we're all at the pub here and mates and having fun.

I want to hear from whoever wants to speak on how their last week in the game was anything, fun, interesting, happen, what you've noticed, what you've done.

Who's got a cool story for me over the last week.

I have a pretty good one.

My heroes Questing and Fellward and basically there's a a little spot behind the oozes where there's a Sayer boss you have to kill, and I was just, you know, a smite priest.

I think I was fighting like the boss and one of his minions and almost have him dead.

Turn around see a level sixty shaman running up to me absolutely like starts laying into me.

I'm like, oh my goodness, I am toast panicked.

I pressed fear and right there there's like a big cliff that if you fall down it you go to I think.

Dark Shore or something.

Basically, he started running towards the cliff.

I tried to mind control him, but I'm only level fifty one at this points, and so it was like said two low level for target.

But I lucked out and the fear just literally feared him off the cliff into like another zone and it takes such a long time to walk back.

He died from the fall.

I just like it's funny because E thought, great, you can whisper people, and I said.

Wow, karma is real.

Uh, have a nice walk back, And next thing I know, he's in Ogrimar.

So I was like, just what a what a wild server?

You know?

Very good?

I love it.

It's God.

It's one of those things where I think it's Marcus who is such a huge fan of mind control and so wait, so you're obviously playing, you praise this MIGHTE right, yeah, yeah, have you been leaning on mind control a lot?

Like Marcus says it's the best fucking ability in the game.

It honestly, on private servers, especially this one, it's completely busted.

Uh, Like I did a sunken temple two days ago, and you know those like the humanoid bosses you have to fight.

I think it's like I forget what their name is, but like Ogam and the other guy, like you can just straight up like mind control the other guy and just he does so much.

Damn.

It is just absolutely wild, just like it's almost like they just haven't done the work to make guys immune to mind control yet, so you can just mind control bosses and everything.

It's it's wild.

So have you mucked around with it much in terms of maybe pay Yeah?

Yeah, Like if if someone in Warsong is attacking me and I have no chance, I'll just mind control them and kind of run them away from me.

It's pretty hilarious.

Have you noticed many, like any jankiness with it that's like unique to apok.

Not really other than being able to mind control way more targets than normally you can.

But oh, okay, what kind of things that they opens it up too, Like just.

Like bosses and stuff, Like normally you wouldn't be able to do a dungeon boss, but sometimes certain dungeon bosses you can just do, or like certain rare elites.

So outside of that encounter that you described, you've seen it like multiple times just being like, oh, holy shit, I can mind control this thing.

Yeah.

Like I was in the basement of BRD, like kind of where you run into Bready and there's like this huge troll berserker guy and he's a rare elite, and I was like, I have no chance of soloing this guy, so I'm gonna try to see if I can mind control him and use all the little elite dwarfs like the wardens and stuff to like kill him, and then last second, I'll let go of it and try to kill him before they kill me.

And it totally worked.

I was able to mind control this like rare elite guy and then like use the dwarves to kill him and unfortunately didn't drop anything good, but it was just it was kind of a wild experience, very good.

All right, guys, who's knicks cap off the rank?

Just honestly, we're starting super light, super easy.

Say whatever you want to say, anything fun, anything interesting that you noticed or saw this past week, even if you dinged sixty las, let me know how congratulations.

Thanks, Yeah, got to see some of the dungeons really fun.

Let's says are really fun.

I like the tuning.

Their difficult but not unfair, and it just requires coordination.

They all require just a little coordination and communication between people, which is always nice.

Uh.

I don't think that the ability to you see everybody that's a little bit loose here is a bug.

I think it's on purpose because the content's a lot harder, but they also encourage you to use your CEC abilities, So I think that's a lot of fun.

It's not just a face roll a everything down.

Well, FuG your abilities was just fun.

I think now that you've brought up the tangent, let's do it, because I've been meaning to talk about this the last couple of weeks and we sort of we've tickled it, but we haven't really gone in on it.

And I agree with you, and you've everyone's heard me on the podcast just fucking you know, jizzing my pants over the fact that as a warlock, I'm encouraged a little bit more to fear, not only because it really does seem like fee isn't as much of a necessarily a death sentence to a group in a dungeon as we've pre thought, where everyone praise that the warlock doesn't hit fear because of how far and how quickly mobs run to pull other packs, but also just because you know mobs are hitting harder.

C C is a little more desirable on epoch, if not arguably depending on the group of necessity.

How do you you know?

Wow, Over the years, it's very obvious to the playerbase has moved towards the direction of AOI everything down, like you say, you know, retail in particular is like CC, Lol, what's that?

Get the biggest pool you can do, and just fucking AOI the fuck out of everything now.

I to you know, with respect obviously, if you push really high and mythic plus keys, yes, I respect that CC may still play a small or you know, a mild role in what you're doing.

I don't want to speak out of school too much in that regard, but like for the most part, retail people will know what I'm talking about that it's burn burn burn and less control.

However, Classic definitely started moving in that burn burn Burn direction as well.

As you know, we went through Classic TBC, Classic Wrath, Classic, Like from it was very obvious.

Even from twenty nineteen onwards, CC just wasn't a thing.

It's just spellcleave, do your fucking thing, face roll the content.

Now we're presented with a server that's like, hey, hey, hey, we want to bring you really back to those days of like two thousand and four where you started to consider CC much more in your pools, And I, for one, as I say, love it, but I want to know what you guys think.

Do you appreciate Epoch's approach to CC or don't be afraid to say?

Do you really just prefer just AoE?

Go nuts?

I hate CC?

You're ready, in my opinion, love it?

You love it?

Yeah?

Do you?

Glas?

I should say, outside of when I'm with you in a dungeon, do you see many people in place bloying CC?

Uh?

If they are beg too, if they're asked too.

It's not it's not people's natural uh tendency.

So you're not seeing a lot of people proactively do it.

No, Like I have to mark, but I don't mind because I'm usual.

I play tanks, so I'm usually leading the group, but I need to mark, right.

No one's gonna throw out a sheep like I thought.

I specifically asked for one.

You're just used to the the may being the madman and and doing it willy nilly pretty much.

Yeah, and like it's kind of yeah.

People just want to you know, AOI they there can be a castor off to the side that's not in my consecrate, just free casting on the healer.

And you know we have a warlocky of a mage.

Nobody just nobody bothers to fear, Nobody bothers to sheep nobody.

I loved what I love there is.

I'm going to take that as a shot even if it wasn't intended to sew.

I'm going to take that as a shot at ubiquitous, ubiquitous.

Take that you, you useless motherfucker, not using sheep on it anything?

How dare you?

He can come and answer for his crime soon, guys, anyone else tell me?

Are you pro it was notous?

It was not ubiquitous?

All right, all right, we'll say it.

No guilty archurs.

Fuck you.

You just spoke up.

So now you have to answer the question, are you four or against the you know, mild use of CC in these kinds of dungeons?

I think I'm I'm bivalent.

Yeah, I'm shocked.

It's why what what?

What?

What's what's making you torn?

On the issue?

I played nineteen ANTIPC and Ralph.

I would say that I like out of the type of dungeon, and like what you need to do in a dungeon or Heroic and look out of all of those three, I probably prefer Classic and then TBC and then Wrath like the Mindless wrath dungeons of just you know, your pudent time just pulls up the instance and they just mandously ever done.

It's not not as engaging with fun.

But that being said, like sometimes you don't want to spend an hour to clear a fyle, mom, Like sometimes you just want to a little quick run.

Right.

Yeah, well, I shouldn't be shocked you you are a zug man.

You do prefer the zag zag lifestyle, so I shouldn't be shocked the shock that you're kind of, you know, slightly erring on the side of let's just fucking go.

I think if if you have a competent group, you should be able to like play around things in a way where you don't need to assign a sap for that trasmobin in the pack and as sheep for another and a fear for the third.

Like I think, if you have a good group, you should be able to play around it rather than having to rely entirely on cc.

All right now, it was the old days of ubers.

Though.

Ubers used to have to pull and shape something and sept something and used to have like really large pools in the original.

No, I mean I still have really large pools to this day.

But I mean that's a story for another time.

Guys, anyone else on this one.

I really want to know if APO's approach to CC gives you the shits or if you think it's fucking champagne football.

Hey, Josh, I here, basically I was I honestly for a priest, and going back to what you were talking about before, it's it might be the funnest part of our toolkit is actually like being able to like mind control CC all these different cool mobs, especially if they're a new mob, because they'll have like certain abilities that you've never seen before.

And if it's like a really powerful one.

Now you're in the pilot's seat of that mob, just cranking and it is like so much fun.

I love it every single time.

Like Strathholme, you grab one of those battle majors, you are cranking and it is so much fun every time.

And so for priests, I think it's unbelievable.

All right, Voodoo, Sorry, so you go, you go, mate.

No, I was just about to say, like, so I play a rogue, so I'm very pro CC like CC is basically half of my life as a rogue.

So it's fun to be able to apply that into PV as well, not just pivot.

P see that's I agree with you that, Like I want to talk about the Rogues for just a second, because like the Rogues toolkit for control is obviously insane, and people just think of the Rogues control in terms of PvP, but it's, you know, incredibly evident in PvE as well.

I am not used to seeing rogues, you know, and Ubiquitous calls this out a lot as well, like, you know, why don't the rogues fucking why aren't you kidney shotting something?

Why aren't you doing blinding blah blah blah blah blah.

I am not used to seeing rogues because obviously we've not played a version of the game it's really required it.

But like i'd be interested to see on Epoch.

I don't think I'm gonna see many Rogues using CC on Epoch because rogues just for whatever reason, do think of themselves as the damage dealer.

Oh damage is my CC, go go go.

I'm not going to fucking see see anything else.

You know.

But on that point, Henrix, like I would love to see more of it, because if I was playing a rogue, I would get off on fucking doing the kidney shot and the blind and everything, so like, it's not like you don't have the toolkit for it.

No, no, I always I always see see whenever I can in the dungeon every time, because I think it's fun.

I think it's fun to control the fight and the help by of my team.

And you know, if you have a if you have a runaway mob, you can just kidney it or whatever.

Eventually some they maybe saved the day.

Do you agree that?

Do you agree that most rogues try to brute force things?

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I've played a bunch of dungeons with more rogs than they've None of them have ever used to.

Voodoo.

All good.

If you've got to run soon, mate.

If you can't talk, you can't talk.

I was just going to ask you one really really quick question.

Let me know if you can answer it.

I was just going to say, in the dungeon runs that you've been running at sixty as a tank, have you noticed people using CC much or not?

No?

Not really?

Okay, have you as the tank been wanting it or have you not been needing it?

I don't think we need it, but to make the dungeon go quicker.

I think it would be super helpful because some of those pools are pretty big, especially in like Strap and all that.

All right, fair enough, someone else was going to chime in there?

Who was that?

Was they you lads on something?

Yeah, I just wanted to echo it.

We said, it's not that it's like absolutely needed, but I've been with rugues who think of themselves with damage dealers and they're pretty much a useless to the party, and then others who are just like kind of just like see seeing everything, and it's so it's so useful and it makes things, you know, they might not show up on the damage mirrors, but like they make the run go so much faster and smoother and it's much appreciated.

Tom, were you going to say something, Yeah, I'm only doing the low level dungeons, like you know, Stockades and Deadminds so far, and we've had to see see a lot because sometimes the incoming tank damage is so high you just want to keep the tank alive.

And that we didn't have any wipes, but.

You know, we've had a couple of occasions where the tanks died and you've had to sort of do a few janky things to get through.

I think that if you're you have a pull and epoch, you can you can the whole group can white pretty quick.

Right, Yeah, And that's what I've been interested in, you know, hearing from the tanks and whatnot, because I'm like, or everyone, you don't have to be a tank to answer this.

But like, one of the reasons I've really enjoyed CC on Epoch in particular is that exact reason.

Tom.

But I view it as I view every pool as like CC is insurance, and I'm like, I'm going to buy some insurance here, and if the insurance is effectively free, why wouldn't I cover the whole party's ass You know that that that really good, you know, fucking expansive insurance policy I can get by just throwing out a twenty second fear on something with a one and a half second cast, and I'm just like, Okay, here's a five pool.

There is a ninety nine percent chance that nothing strange is going to happen with this pool.

It's all relative, you know, relatively straightforward.

Let's just do it, blah blah blah.

But it is the question of I guess, you know, do you just AOI them all down, and am I griefing the group by fearing one off and making it just you know, a little bit easier on the tank and healer or should I leave them in the pack and just you know, if you wipe your wipe trust the process, it's all good.

I don't know, it's It's basically just a judgment call at the time.

And sometimes I do feel bad for sending out that fear because I'm like, well, we really didn't need that, and that mob would be dead by now if we just let it go down with the AoE.

I think you're not doing the wrong thing by feeling especially with epochs new fear system doesn't seem to be as crazy as blizzards.

Yeah, well, well, I'll keep an eye on you.

That experiences, because that's experience.

It's your first time in a dungeon see four.

I think you should go wild with the CC and then just like pare it down as you're getting more comfortable, you know what you're doing.

Yeah, yeah, now, Las an interesting conversation came up amongst you guys after Yibi.

I think is going to eventually wake up and regale us with a tale of horror about a Strathholme run that you did, and certain names will be redacted to protect the innocent, or should I say, to protect the guilty.

But mate, you guys were talking about your maybe evolving thoughts on Paladin tanking, where the whole server is a buzz with just oh my god, Paladin tanks.

They're so good.

Why would you take anything else?

Blah blah blah, And obviously that's going to rankle all the other tanks and be like, hey man, this is bullshit, Like, let's not and I agree, let's not do the thing where we start to create a meta discourage Pete, discourage people from playing any other tank than Paladin, Like, of course you can do all the content with any tank, and you can, but you know, people are going like, oh, is fucking Paladin the best?

But after a couple of runs you had and you play a Paladin tank, lads, you guys were starting to question the the the effectiveness of the Paladin tank or maybe saying it's maybe not quite like it's still powerful, but maybe not the power house or you know, only answer to tanking that people might think it is.

Is that the case?

Yeah, I think Paladin definitely is a powerhouse Uh.

Tank, it's definitely is the most user friendly and probably uh, I don't know.

Maybe I haven't played a Druid, so I don't have much experience, but certainly for the away situations that it's easier for a paladin, uh take it if he is to learn in Druid.

Yeah, like for you know what small poles like you, it's pretty simple too, uh, And they're very survival.

But I think each tank has a role and they're going to shine in those roles.

Yeah.

I think the reason why it's not that Warrior or Druid is bad when people say they want to paladin.

If they do say they're bad, I think they're just ignorant because they do have great toolkits.

It's that they want to play a certain way.

They want to AOI face roll, not to have to think.

They don't want to have to prioritize targets.

They don't have to look at a skull.

They want to take their face and smash on their keyboard and hit multi shot or hit Blizzard and don't have to worry about which target they're targeting.

And if you want to do that, then the Paladin is the absolute best tank.

But the other tanks have other advantages over the palad and that in certain situations and certain group comps they can succeed.

You just have to adjust the way you play.

Yeah, well you got not forbid you ask one to do that.

You mentioned, I mean, Voodoo, you would know like druids pretty much can only that they're very used to and can and can only do the you know, the small polls, so to speak.

Isn't that right, Voodoo?

Yes, unfortunately, we're just we're very very much a solo tank.

But it's also very dear dependent too, Like I've got call gear.

And barely any attack power.

But once you start cramming that up, it just gets better and better.

But yeah, well, ideally known as the single target tank.

It's so interrupting.

Is the Druid tank playing the same as it was in TBC?

Now, yeah, there's not really any much difference to it.

So it was the by far of the best tank for reading in TBC for rating.

Yeah yeah, yeah, but dungeons might be a little bit different.

You would you would.

Carry out a small Paladin tank with you just for trush and then you would tell them to fk for bosses.

So lads, just back to the kind of things that you guys were discussing.

You brought up that, like, you know, you were finding it more and more obvious that you know, Paladin tanks on Epoch, and you know it might be it might have been the same case in TBC.

But you can either be really good at mitigation, really good at threat, but not really good at both.

Is that the case, Yeah.

I'd say so, I mean, you get there's much more gear, there's there's definitely true in TBC.

The gear in Epoch is better.

So I got the at the h like the Dungeon two set, and the death Bone has been reworked so it does have stamp, it does have spell and spell power, and you know it's got both threat stats that would need.

So I would say it's definitely true of TVC, and it was true while leveling, but now as I'm starting to get better gear on the apockets, better itemizes for Paladin, I think they kind of give us both.

And I would definitely say Paladin is it plays them o TVC, but it's definitely more powerful in Epoch.

They've given us certain things that just for example, our shield throw is instant, which makes pulling much easier and just have instant threat and every on you know, the first three targets h which allows us to seal and judge wisdom to keep her mount up.

And also ardent Defender works properly, doesn't get lead frogs, so we can Actually I'm like TVC, you can trust a pallet tank to try to take take a raid boss without needing the ridiculous amounts of healing.

I gotta keep these Sorry, Last, I was asking like a comments, I got to keep these meat sacks alive, said, uh, warriors are slept on and and this like everyone like you're saying Last wants a palatine because you guys can just say you the shid of trash.

But I then a couple of dungeons with some really good warriors got their threat was as good as a palade, and their damage is top tear and their house like doesn't even move.

I can sit there and like you know, play mind speaker monitor and every now and then hit him with a hot or something like one life but keeps the warrior up.

Yeahs are strong, but sometimes they really spike.

It's like good, good good, oh my god, he's I was dead.

Yeah, that's because we will almost well, artis defender doesn't kick in the thirty percent, so we need to take damage for a spiritual tiement to give us mant of back.

So it's designed, I think very well where we're gonna stay alive, but we're gonna need more healings.

The warrior in a dungeon setting one doesn't have you know, doesn't have another warrior to do it, is going to have demost shout and thunderclap, which paladin tank's not always gonna have it in a dungeon, so they're gonna take much less damage.

In a rate setting, you'll have the GPS warriors or another tank warrior to give that to what paladin or druid.

But I've seen a lot of puns don't speck into that for some reason.

I think they're crazy, but I mean whatever.

Not like you can play five points and like when you're less than thirty percent or something, it takes difking away less damage than is.

Yeah, it's it's a thirty percent damage reduction on top of your other damage reduction.

So that's pretty powerful, I think.

But like paladins aren't like to be on end all like some bosses and dungeons.

Uh, silence, some managering, you know, and that those situations like it doesn't feel great to be a palert those situations, I you know, I love having regions seat of matter, and then other situations you know, it's great to dump build a front love and dump all your matter on the pole, and you know they're just advands and disadvantage teach and so I dofinitely think it takes more.

There's a higher skill for worse, and they're harder.

They're much harder.

I think a lot more efforts to play in dungeons, for sure.

But Vio said about you, it's very actively taking years.

I don't only come across like two adequate bear tanks.

Most of them everyone's tanking, but the bearer.

I think it seems to be the case that I don't know, it's as more and more people arrive at sixty.

You know, I know this game is a quote unquote TBC base, but it is still slightly different.

Epoch is its own thing, and people you know, are wanting to work out what's good, what's not good, and you know what I should roll for an alt and all that stuff.

So it's it's it's fun sort of watching people just trying to sort of see how it all goes at sixty.

But you know, another thing is the healers as well, and people trying to figure out which healers are performing particularly well at the end of the day.

I know it's such a lame answer, but it does still seem to be the case that it's just like, play what you like.

You know, everything's fine, but sorry, Las lean on you so heavily at the outset of the podcast, but Ubi's just messaged me and said, unfortunately, something's come up, so he's not going to be able to join us.

So I'm going to place the onus on you too, as dramatically and entertainingly as you can regale us with this tale of tragedy that you had in Strathholm two nights ago.

Now we'll redact names to We had a big chat before the podcast and said, look, if we're telling stories of people who have not been the greatest of players on the server, maybe it's best that you know, at least on the podcast.

You know, we feel like discords a little bit different because that's into guild chat and people are like, oh god, you know, if you're getting in a party with this guy, just be wary of them.

But on the podcast, we'll keep the names of the guilty redacted so that we're not really throwing them under the bus in front of thousands of people.

You know, you never know when someone's new to a role or new to the game or whatnot and all that stuff.

But anyway, keeping that in mind, lads, give us as close to a ubiquitous style regaling of this dungeon run as you can.

Starting from the very top.

So we got to Stratham, Undead and the warriors leading the group we got we got Ubi and the boxer, guild mate and the orient in there, and then to two plugs the healer I guess we were the plugs, but the healer, Paladin, Healer and the Warrior put the group together.

Yes, I was taking.

And they found three down people to come in and save the day.

Gotcha absolutely.

So as soon as we get there, the warrior opens the gate for us because none else has a key and then says, oh afk one minute.

Well that one minute was like twenty.

It was like twenty minutes, and we killed like a bosom between.

So that was first LA was will annoying.

Yeah, I fucking hate that can we just sorry, I'm gonna pause you there and just say, like I mean, look, I'm trying to think if I've been guilty of this in the past, and like maybe in the podcast, but like in WEW generally, if I say be right back two minutes, like it is two minutes.

Like I'd never understood the person that gets in a dungeon group and either just before the dungeon starts or in the first five ten minutes.

Sorry, guys, I'll be right back.

And like like we said last week, sorry, hang on, al, you're breaking up a bit, I'd never understood.

Like, as we said, real life happens.

I totally get it.

My cat's on fire, Oh my god, my wife's just come home.

I have to go and talk to her for a little bit.

Whatever it might be, real life happens.

But like as soon as you realize you now have to step away, or even if you have to take the fifteen minute dump, like the people that don't say anything or that pretend like I'll only be a minute or two and literally just leave people hanging like it is the rudest fucking thing I could ever think of, Like it irritates me to no end, but anyway.

Have you done?

Yeah, what he was doing?

What was what was he doing?

He was smuggling weight.

His behavior the rest of the road would make sense because he was chatting the whole time.

He wasn't doing dad, But she had the great he had amazing gear.

Yeah, four four PPP set, but he had like a six piece bonus and then two like a two piece dungeon two set.

Like he was a very very good gear.

Well that's he PLAYSK and bgs.

As as this.

Well that that might be the case, lads, because as this dungeon was going on, one of the things that stood out to me from your guys, and we're going to get into the story.

Guy.

Sorry, I keep kind of holding lads back, but if you haven't sort of picked up on this warrior is going to be painted as a bit of a villain through this dungeon because he does a number of things that are pretty fucking weird.

But like one of the things you guys kept saying as the dungeon run was going wrong along in discord, lads, was like, you know, how the fuck did this guy get all this gear?

Because you said he was he turned out to be a pretty fucking ordinary player, but he had this amazing gear.

Gets carried and just yeah, just good honestly, probably just high and just paying attention.

That would make sense.

Well on that.

No, sorry again I'm going to be really annoying.

But for all you weight smokers out there, like I'm not a weight guy.

I always thought it was like relatively quick to burn down a cone, Like how do you when someone goes off go away for fifteen minutes?

Like what's with the protracted length of fucking getting high?

It just gets away from you.

You think it's going to be quick, and then you know you lose track of time.

Fair enough, fair enough, all right, sorry, Las, back to it, keep going.

Yeah, so then he also nothing that was really annoying though.

The second boss, the Banshee, is harder than she is in Classic, has some cool mechanics, but it was definitely it was definitely a challenge, and Ubiquitous was really pissed off because we almost wiped barely barely killed her.

You know, two of us are dead, and everyone's like out of mannon.

It was just pretty sure I died an event.

Uh, it would have been fine.

It would have been fine, except ub was actually using CC on the ads.

And this this warrior was whirlwinding or cleaving or doing something and putting bleeds on all of us, all the ads and breaking his uh break in the CC.

So it's just like he was just making everything like super hard on us.

Uh.

You know, he's just one of those you know, just zug zug yeah on the computer.

So you was really mad at that because the sheeps are getting broken.

But and then he goes, yeah he f Kate a second time, yaha, be right back and then like you know, left and then the problem is he gave Kate on a wipe uh and he's never had the key.

So we're just sitting there for that for we can't get it in.

He finally gets there, we wiped again.

I'll get to the wife to the second.

But because he pissed me off you more than the wife, we wiped again for you know, various reasons.

And he knows he's the only one as a key, and I come in with him.

I'm just behind him.

He opens the door, keeps going and I'm like, hello, I open the door for me a type of and he just keeps running, doesn't doesn't slow down.

So I'm we're waiting another five minutes as I'm typing in like open the door, come back, come back, and back, and then he just types in like five minutes, are okay back?

Oh wow, Oh you can't get in, Like that's not ten minutes wast Still, he was just like on a different planet.

It was so it was so annoying, Like we literally ran in almost at the same time, except he was a little bit ahead of me.

I just needed if it was an extra second, I could have snucketting behind him.

But just totally like oblivious to everything that's that was going on, just doing in his own world anyway.

So the other part of the story that to mention is that I'm laughing at you big this whole time.

We have an audience at.

This time watching this live up to this point in the story.

What did you say that was tickling your pickle?

It was just losing his hat.

He was so frustrated, it was.

It was glorious.

Yeah, so are we had a healer.

Backstory is my favorite.

We had a paladin healer and before we get into uh, you know, the wipes and everything, I had just run before that, a Ubers with a paladin healer, my first holy Paladin I've run with.

For some reason, I just run with more Shamans and priests and drewids, especially shamans a lot of anyway.

So I was like, how they and this Holy Paladin was like decked out, had good gear the previous one and it was like a really smooth beard run with no wipes, just and the bosses at the end can pretty tricky.

So it was just I never like even got the health health like it was just full man of like just keeping me up the entire time.

It was like amazing.

So I'm talking to Ubi up like that, like, oh, yes, we got a paladin.

They're the best dungeon healers, Like I just had one.

It'd be like like here in for a treat.

This is going to be a really smooth run.

Like I'm talking all this, I'm talking all this ship like hyping up Holy Paladin.

Yeah.

And then we get in there and this guy and he was a very nice guy, I think, and just didn't know what he was doing.

He had very good gear, very you know approach.

He had the dungeon one set some dungeon too, like uh he was he had a good gear like it wasn't it wasn't the problem because he kept saying, is that my gear is in my gear and I was like, no, it's not your gear.

He's was pressing the wrong spells, was waiting too long to cast, like he waits till I was low to start casting, and was just casting the wrong spells.

He was casting flash of light a lot into the Holy Light, and just just had a very slow reaction time.

Wasn't pre casting, just a lot of stuff.

Just didn't know what he was doing and didn't really understand the fine he was trying.

But he just could have cut it.

Let me, let me jump in, and I'm going to be far more scathing than you.

You're far too nice, laz.

Because I tuned in for the end of the dungeon when you guys were having I think you wiped a few times on Baron.

I didn't see any of the wipes.

I only tuned in just when you got the kill.

I think the toile like eleven to twelve waves in the run like Baron alone was live waves.

And I was like, I told you, I don't think this is possible.

I don't think we can do it with this guy, right.

So I tuned in literally just for the last two minutes and saw you at the start of the fight and you downed the boss, and I just watched what was happening because I knew that you guys were having the run from hell, so I was like, oh, I've got to watch a little bit of this and see what the fuck is going on.

And as you know, a guy who gravitates towards healing, I just mainly kept an eye on the healer and the health bars and sort of was sitting there thinking what I would be doing if I was in there.

And I was so hard on this guy because I was just like, it's not even that he's casting the wrong spells, and like paladins don't have that many fucking options for healing spells anyway, but like he just wasn't casting.

And I mean I'm not talking like, oh, you know, he'd go three to four seconds between heels.

No, no, no, this fucking can't.

Was literally just standing there doing nothing for like sometimes like six eight, ten seconds, and I'm just watching your health bars and you're all at fifty percent health and I'm like, Okay, here's someone.

He's someone heal someone, and not a single bar moves for a very painfully long time.

And this wasn't like one window of time.

This was the whole what was it like a ninety second five or something.

Yeah, I got look at the combat log.

It's on the way.

So I'm like, I took seven heads from the bathlow heel.

Yeah yeah, and like and so I just said, like, this motherfucker is literally not pressing a button.

He's just standing there.

He's casting a holy light or a flash heel once every eight to ten seconds.

He was fucking useless.

And I went nuts are on him because I was like it just stunk to me.

Of like I said, the guy that is just fucking watching netflicks during a dungeon, Oh sorry did I miss a healing?

Oh we wiped?

Oh well, you guys run back and reds meel just keep watching this movie.

And I was getting so eero.

I mean, obviously we don't know.

Maybe the guy was just bad, maybe he wasn't watching a movie.

But like when because he was like I can't heal this.

I'm like literally doing everything I can.

I can't keep you guys up, which is funny because like you were watching like you're not healing.

I don't know what you're doing.

Yeah, like he wasn't running out of manna.

He had manna, like just ah.

It was so infuriating, and like, those are the players that I go ballistic on because this is a game that literally just rewards you for doing anything.

Just just do anything, just press any fucking button, something will happen.

But healers who, as I said, the number one pet peeve of mine is healers that wait until you get low to heal you, which I think is fucking dumb.

And some of them go, look MP five bro with some bullshit like that.

It's not like Paladin's cancel cast.

Cancel cast.

You start to heal and if it's he doesn't need it, you cancel it.

Yeah, but like he just fucking anyway.

I sorry, so I can't tell another funny story.

There's a wipe where this wipe piss me off because it we pulled the pack and you know, we're fighting them, and all of a sudden he backs up into another pack and then pull the second one of like casts and stuff, and literally just back pedals into it because he wasn't paying attention.

And after we wape, he goes, oh, sorry, I got silenced, And I was like, well, you got silence because by the second pack that you backpedaled them to the fine.

Before that to me, like, I can forgive that though, like the healer's body pulling accidentally a second pack because they're wandering around like a chicken with his head cut off.

Like yeah, it's not ideal, but whatever shit happens, Like you can heal through why mistakes like that?

You can't.

He's not a druid.

He can't cut, he can't run cast like you have to stand and cast, So there's no reason why he should be backpelling and the pole you should be standing.

People get I get like I I understand that.

I get fidgety in pools.

If you watch me play, my character is running around everywhere.

I just I'm not the guy that just stands still.

I'm a fuck with that moves around everywhere.

So I sort of get that.

That that one, that one puts me off.

But anyway, so the only reason we were able to kill the last boss, I switched from my spell power up into a trusty hand of the Odd, hand of Edward of the Odd.

Thanks to that AX will help me get and uh, I basically self healed.

I think I cast like probably four or five holy lights on myself during well tanking.

To yeah, keep myself thanking the last boss.

Yeah, I think, and I think the yeah, and I think the heal actually died on the last boss and he did.

He did four of us.

I think it was smoother once we just were like, he's not gonna heal, Like he's dead at can heali?

So we picked It was almost like once he was dead, like everyone started playing better because you know hm, and we got it down.

But it was it was a very long I think a three hour like twelve white Strath on them run.

Yeah, I just I felt for you guys, But like my head also went to, like, you know, the warrior and the paladin that you were dealing with, and I know, we all it's all easy, and it sounds very negative to sit here and dunk on pugs and be like, oh, only the people in Countdown fucking know to how to don't know how to play the game correctly.

Like obviously that's not the case.

We're not fucking perfect players by any means, But like my mind goes to the kind of player that is level sixty at this point on the server, Like we're four weeks into the server.

You know, if you've achieved level sixty by this stage, you are a relatively dedicated player, and like you would just presume that the kind of player that goes that hard getting a sixty up there within three to four weeks also somewhat knows how to play the game.

But it's just like it's kind of the wow conundrum where like oftentimes, in my opinion, the people that go hardest at the game sometimes are some of the fucking bad players as well.

Can I jump in, well, yes, KOs please.

I think you're you're touching on the you're touching on this skill versus like difficulty or something.

If you cast your mind back to the rank fourteen discuss so many people just say you have a lot of time.

It's the same here.

People with a lot of time they can level, right, Like you don't need to be a good player to level right, right, So the people who are sixty now are like good players who have a lot of time, bad players who have a lot of time, and everything in between, right.

True, But what I'm getting at I had a good discussion about this.

Sorry I was trying to remember.

We had a good discussion about this.

Ubiquities myself and the last, I think the these type of people, these these are the pascifire in mouth type of gamer.

They don't give a fuck about your time and they don't care about wasting it.

That's the overarching issue here.

But when you're playing with these, you know, heading the clouds, smoking a joint or whatever type of person they're, they're not considerate of them being that they're not playing with a person, right, Like it's just you're just a pot to them, Like they don't give a ship that you have a life where you have time like ubiquities, came home from work, you wanted to do two dungeons and then go to walk the dog, right, but this guy doesn't care about that, Like you're bigger, This isn't the person to him.

It's just it doesn't factor into their mind.

But their action is like has an effect affect on somebody else's time and they just don't care.

But in saying that, like I want to sort of reinforce the listeners out there, Like I'm not I completely agree with you our costs, but like I'm not suggesting that every player I ever run a dungeon with has to be at the fucking cutting edge of performance.

God no, I don't give a shit if people are perfectly average at the game, even below average.

I like, I've never been the guy that's like, oh, you know in a version of the game where you can kick people from dungeons or kick this guy he's doing subpar DPS.

No, I always reserve the kicks for the people who are just not pressing their buttons.

I'd be like, you're a DPS player, We've been in here for ten minutes.

You are literally doing less damage than the healer.

Get the fuck out of my dungeon, or like that, and that that attitude of mind still carries over to this version of the game where it's like, hey man, couldn't help it.

Notice you're the heeler, you're not casting heels.

Hey man, couldn't help it.

Notice you're the fucking you know, arms warrior, and you are you know, standing still for thirty seconds after every pack and joining the fight late and really not doing anything.

Like I just hate that kind of shit, And like, I don't expect peak performance.

I just expect, like you're saying, ar costs respect that you're playing with other people and press a button or two.

You know, you know, you don't have to you don't have to be the never wasted global guy.

I'm that guy personally, but you don't have to be that guy.

But just you know, act like you're trying to a certain you know, extent.

No, I would agree, like if you're doing fine, you're doing fine.

If you're not, then you're wasting time.

If you're wasting time, then you can just fuck off and do it to somebody else.

With And but these are the people also ar Coss.

Sorry if I'm going to say it's one last point.

You know, I mentioned last week on the podcast how people have accused me of, you know, oh having no chill.

Oh fuck you know, just chill out.

Man, It's a game.

Why do you take it so seriously?

And it's like, is is this an argument of taking it too seriously?

I don't believe.

So.

I don't think it's much to ask of people to fucking like, hey, man, like semi, get your head in the game.

When you go to a five man dungeon, fucking relaxed, bro, trying to watch a movie here, what the fuck you care?

Fuck?

Just chill out?

Like, I just don't have that attitude, am I.

I'll give you our costs.

The principal Skinner quote and say, am I so out of touch?

Or is it the children who are wrong?

It's the children.

It's your time, right, and it's it's up to you.

How are you value your time?

If you don't value your time, holy chill out, smoke a fucking joint.

Wait twenty minutes while this other person you know, of course, to the fucking bathroom or does whatever the fuck they need to do.

If you do value your time, don't right, don't don't put up with these type of people.

If you do well your time, m someone else.

Is going to it.

I totally agree with dar crossing you, and I just want to just make make it clear to listeners that I don't we're talking.

We're not talking about people who are new to the game, who don't you know we're don't you're looking to learn, Like I look like I love if someone comes into dungeon never been to first of all, I do it too.

If I'm like, this is new content when I'm first, it doesn't I type out to the party, hey, like, I've never been this dungeon before.

Please help me with mechanics, you know.

And I and I would hope if someone's new to the game, you know, never been a dungeon, particular dungeon before.

Just say hey, you're new, and I if I've been there before, I'm happy to teach people happy or someone's be like, hey, I'm new at this roller class.

Any tips are appreciated, Like if you're new, just speak out.

I've found that people are pretty generous.

They'll help you.

And certainly I don't view it as a waste of my time to help somebody who needs it.

But going afk or just not pressing your buttons because you're watching a movie on the second screen, it's definitely I agree with our disrespectful to the other people in the party one.

And you need to be like if you if you're a new player, like you haven't done this thing before, you need to be honest with yourself as well.

Right, A lot of people don't.

They don't want to ask for help because they think that they'll maybe that maybe some people will just remove them or whatever, or maybe you'll you'll run into that.

But at least that's not the way that we are discussing this.

If if you come into the dungeon, and we we discussed this before as well, and you haven't done played this specific role in this dungeon, like a hero or a tank.

Just just be vocal about it.

Just say it up front so that people know it, like before the run starts, and then you'll you'll be treated completely differently.

All right, guys, let's move to thank you very much for that regaling more of a tale of tragedy the lads.

Sorry, does someone want to say something?

Nope?

Okay, yeah, say not all of us, not all of us joy in the mouth players are in considerate.

Yeah, like that's the paint and weather brush.

So not all of us joining what sorry say again I said.

Not all of us joined in the mouth players are inconsiderate.

Oh no, no, no, like you fuck.

There are people that play drunk and people that play high that are fine.

I don't care if you have a joint in a month, But if you're a pacifo then.

I don't know.

But just there's a different type of player that's come out of COVID.

Right.

They play at home while they're working on their IT job or whatever.

Right, and that's the problem.

Right, So they're sitting there, you know, coding or responding to support tickets.

Or whatever they're doing and they're trying to play a dungeon at the same time, and those are the people that are clicking the heel button every twenty five seconds instead.

Of every three.

Yeah, so we've.

We've sort of bread it into them over the years after COVID that everyone's sort of like used.

To doing something else at the same time.

So I kind of think it's AS that have an insistence that.

That someone's always switched on.

We're on the in the minority now.

A lot of people have had it that that's the new way playing after COVID.

Maybe maybe I always go with AS.

Look, there's plenty of light content in this game that you can do solo.

You can be airy fairy and float through the game and do other things while doing the content.

But for me, it'll always be the second you enter a party, and particularly the second you enter an instance, it's it's just two words, switch on.

That's it.

We're not asking much to switch on and fucking have fun by all means have fun, laugh, joke, wipe.

Who cares just be switched on?

I don't know.

I don't think it's asking too much, but we'll move on, guys, And I want to hear does anyone else have any fun tales of triumph from the past week, any any sixty dings, any thirty dings, anything fun that they're proud of.

I have two things, but it's not it's some things I'm proud of.

Well, it's odd things.

Okay.

So, first of all, I think I've.

Encountered another arcoss T eight hundred robot from the future.

Oh yeah, I think it's basically the same make year and model as well.

So I was looking for a Dead Mines group and I got invited by a guy and I was like, yeah, sure, accepted it.

Some invite and he said he typed in party chat, like all right, so we just need two more people.

And I was like, okay, so what do we need?

I asked him, to which he probably replied with two more people?

Do I really have to elaborates here?

Oh?

No, they're breeding.

They're breeding, says nothing wrong with that.

He clearly answered your question.

Oh yeah, I hit it hit it answer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that got me a little bit suspicious.

But he was a great guy who was good healer, and we had a good time, very good.

This specifically making model is generally good people.

Right yeah.

Uh.

The second the second point I was having was I did a an omer Gun run as well with.

A bunch of Russians, and.

Uh, it fucking irritates me so much when you know, you know the layout of Dungeon like I know omer Gun, like I know the inside of my own apartment, I know exactly where to go, I know exactly exactly where all the bosses are, and still everyone is running around like a bunch of headless chickens and I'm trying to tell them which way to go, and no, nobody's listening.

Nobody, everyone, everyone always thinks they know it.

Yeah, better for sure.

Yeah, I don't know.

I lost my ship.

I totally lost my ship.

All right, guys, I'll tell you what has let me think of anything else in terms of being.

I think somewhat on theme the riveting conclusion of last week's Kangaroo Court, because you have, like right after the episode, but right after the recording, we had a riveting.

Conclusion we did.

I'm glad you brought it up, and I was.

I was listening back to the episode and having a laugh because he's Josh going like, not enough people are hard on these counts in you got to kick him out and get the fuck rid of them and all that shit.

This guy has done done a great crime against the guild.

We're fugging him off.

But during the podcast, I was like, his major crime was the lack of communication.

Yes, the roaching out was unacceptable, but the major major crime was just a complete lack of communication.

The guy never fucking wrote back to anyone.

So Schmeiek eventually made contact very soon after that last podcast recording, and we said, fuck, you can talk.

What's the deal?

And I tell you what, his excuses, in my opinion, were pretty piss poor.

We got the I had a power outage and that's why I disconnected from the dungeon.

And then we said that's fine, what about you not speaking to a single person in the guild who's been trying to whisper you.

And he goes, he said, I don't have a chat add on and I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?

But there's the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.

But look he said he wrote in the discord and he was like, look, you know, my bad.

I'm here now.

I'm sorry.

You know, won't happen again.

Can I just get back in the guild and We basically said, all right, you're on super secret final not so super secret final probation, last chance, you're in, and we'll see what the legend of Schmik does from here.

And you know, maybe it's me going a bit soft, but I said, my major issue was the communication thing.

He finally communicated, you know, and it'll be if he's so much as farts in our general direction from here, it'll be another g kick and it'll be permanent.

So that's the conclusion of the story.

You also, you went, because there's somewhat on theme, you went, if you can explain why you roached out without saying anything, without using the letter E in your response, I'll let you back in.

Yes, drugs was the answer, and yeah I ran it by the jury, and Marcus had a good laugh and said, you know what, that's a fucking great answer.

Let him back in.

Yeah, look that was it was great.

It won me over.

Oh my god, he's here.

Where did you fucking cidle in from?

I just slid on in and like was just immediately captivated by Arcos and his truth bombs.

Fair enough?

Did that all resonate with you, mate?

Yeah?

It did, usually does when it comes out of Arcos.

Yeah you are.

You do subscribe to the old Arcos newsletter, don't you?

I do?

I do?

Yeah?

Has a server gone down for anyone else?

Yeah?

Yeah, okay, Oh fantastic, perfect time for podcasting.

All right, Well, look, Marcus, do you have any tales of triumph for tragedy from the past seven days?

No, I haven't really been on too much in the past seven days.

I've just made an old a hunter old, but I'm not in the guild.

I'm kind of just hiding out fair enough.

You've fallen prey to the call of the Hunter like Arcos as well.

Yeah, it's a pretty loud call and just right clicking stuff and havn't it fall over?

Seems pretty good.

It's insane.

How real to mode this class is?

It's actually crazy.

Yeah, and that's kind of what I need.

I need a bit of a wheelchair mode at the moment.

I don't.

It's the last class I would ever associate with you Arcos.

I'm kind of shocked.

I saw you on one.

Yeah, I've I have a Hunter on Sorde.

It's not It's not my favorite class to play, but I just needed something while ife I'm rested on the Warrior.

So yeah, Hunter is very good.

Now, boys says, I'm trying to think of who else he has gotten up towards.

Oh, here's what I'll do.

I'll tell a little bit of my story from my final steps of the leveling journey, and then I would like to hear from any of you that may have experienced the same thing.

So basically last week when we recorded the show, I think I said I was like fifty two or fifty three or something, so I just had to sort of knock off the last little bit.

And you know, I was having Ubiquitous's recommendations ringing in my ear, going, oh mate, you know you've got to go to Winter Spring.

It's my favorite fucking zone.

Now.

It was unreal, I believe.

He also shouted out we talked about Angro, I had pretty much done, and to be fair, when I talked about Angro last week on the podcast, I was only halfway through the zone.

All the new stuff eventually did pop up for me, and Angro was really fun.

There is a lot of new stuff there.

Definitely go there and do it, clear it out.

It was really well fleshed out.

Sort of massive props for what they did with Angorro.

But then what I did was I headed Where did I go next?

I went to fuck.

I can't remember.

I need the map to look at.

I did do Winter Spring.

I went to Winter Spring at fifty eight, thinking it would carry me over all the way to sixty.

But I actually only got like a level and a half out of Winter Spring, and then I'd pretty much done all the quest.

So I think i'll call you be out a little bit.

I wasn't as impressed with Winter Spring as he was.

I don't think they added that much new stuff.

There is new stuff, don't get me wrong.

Well, okay, to be fair, there's one new area that's incredibly cool in Winter Spring.

I really really like what they did with it, but unfortunately they gave it fuck all quest I think las Would I be correct in saying this?

Like three quests in that new area they created.

At least six?

What?

Okay, maybe I'm the problem.

I didn't notice.

Yeah, I was six there.

Okay, it was cool, going, you know, in the vaults and everything.

I went with you lads, and then I went on my own as well.

Really really cool area.

But uh, yeah, I don't know.

Maybe I'm shocked here there were six quests there.

I really thought it was less than that.

But anyway, I felt like, I feel like still they could have done even more.

Change got to you gotta follow up A yeah, I don't know.

I just feel like they could have done even more with that zone.

But anyway, outside of that area, I didn't feel like Winter Spring had a lot.

Look there's a dwarf over near the yetties that has like four or five quests for you now, and like, like we sort of say this, in every zone post forty, you'll probably find a dozen new quests, and you know sort of think, oh, that's not that many, but it is a fair bit like a doesnen new question for a zone adds up over time.

I went, I'm shocked that now that I'm sixty, how many zones I skipped?

I didn't even I didn't do a single quest in Fellwood.

I didn't do a single a single fucking quest in Burning Steps.

I completely skipped Burning Steps, Fellwood completely skipped as Shara, that's three level fifty zones I completely skipped and still easily dined sixty.

Like you say that to any Vanilla player and they'll be like fucking what, Like it's wild.

It is absolutely wild, and like I do have some form of regret that, like, oh, I didn't get to see the new stuff in Burning Steps.

They've got this really cool new new questing hub that I that I sort of actually, wait, I'm lying, I'm lying, I'm lying.

I did do Burning Steps, but not all of it, only only a few quests, only like the first half dozen.

But you know, skipped whatever was in fell Wood, skipped whatever was in a Shara a Shara.

I completely agreed with the guys.

I went there.

I saw them like, it's great what they've built.

But I picked up all the quests and then I saw where it was trying to send me and I was like, fuck this, I'm not doing that.

I'm just not in the mood for traveling all over the zone in a very inefficient fashion.

I'm leaving.

But the wildest thing for me happened when I got to Sylicus and I was fifty nine and a half and I'm like, fuck, where do I go for this last half level?

And I went to Sylicus thinking, oh, you know, I like Syllathus, Let's go do this and your zone in there and it becomes a meat I don't want to ruin this, so I'll keep myself very light and just say this ain't your daddy's syllathus like it has.

I don't want to say drastically changed, because how do I explain this.

Okay, let's just say it's drastically changed.

That's just let your imagination run wild.

I went to go and get my usual quests in Sylthus and was immediately shocked that that was not the path I could follow, and that a completely new path opened up in Sylthus.

And I was like, what the fuck do I do here?

But I worked it out and I did it, and I found a group for the what is group content that you have to do in Silthus?

And I've got somewhat mixed feelings on it.

It was fun, but I'm not sure if I necessarily all the way agree with what they've done, because it does feel like it borrows from one of the less popular additions to SOD that people have, you know, thrown under the bus over the life cycle of since it was introduced in SOD.

So I don't want to say too much because I'd rather you guys just experience it so you know what I'm talking about.

It, and we won't spoil it.

But Las, did you go to Sylicus at all?

I did, And I can just say about Winner Spring, I totally disagree with you.

I think Winner Spring is great, Okay, fair enough.

It was already it was already an amazing zone.

It didn't need a lot more.

But what they added they changed that little dight undead knight of ze little area.

I think it's amazing for the small area that it is, and I think two more quests there would have been overkilled.

I think they used the space.

Well, there's kill quests for every type of mob.

There's also another type of quest.

Yep.

I won't spoil.

There's some stuff with professions that tie in with the last zone, the last little area that's like a little vaulta that is cool.

I don't want to spoil anythings.

I'll just say I loved it, and I like the mob, designed the quest, designed the terrain, and I don't think they could have done much more with it.

I think the only it's not a criticism, but you could say they could have done more more quests in the northwest part of the zone.

But there's already a quest there for your dungeon.

Two set that takes you there, so you know, I'm not going to criticize it.

Yeah, I did about a level there, but it was efficient.

Yeah, so I know you got a level the half I got about I got about a level there.

I think, well that that was the only odd part.

And don't get me wrong, I didn't have a bad time in Winter Spring.

I enjoyed it.

But just you be, you know how hyped it up a bit.

And this comes back to the point we'll have to talk about where are here?

Ah here he is.

Where just in time for your Winter Spring review, And I'm questioning if you actually did the whole zone or not.

I did.

I did.

I did the whole I did the whole fucking zone.

But here's my own thing.

I enjoyed Winter Spring.

But what I'm saying is every other zone gave me like two two and a half levels.

Winter Spring gave me like one point four.

And I'm like, oh, like they didn't add that much.

Here quality of quantity.

Yeah, And.

It's a little bit back and forth.

Like you said, there's the dwarf in the hut, there's the undead dude in the cave.

There's the two guys over at their other tent in the fucking mountains, and then there's the whole night off area to the north, so there's I guess, yeah, it's not it's not like it's an ongoing, but you.

Know what, I'm changing, you're swinging me.

I'm changing my mind.

It was actually better than I realized.

Like I said, my only criticism is like more my experience bar going Oh, I did all this shit, and I thought my experience bar would have gone up more, but it didn't.

But I actually did do a lot of new quests and I'm thinking back now to like the tour and truid that you help out the Yeah, look there is shitting winter Spring.

You're right, I'm probably being too harsh, And like I said, I had fun anyway, But that's that I think.

I think it's overrated in Vanilla.

That's why I'm gassing it up here, because it's not.

It's not the most busy epoch zone.

But winters Bring was shit before when you actually think about it, you went there like six quests in the error.

Now you go there for like thirty questions, just only a level and a half.

But it's better than the half a level it used to give.

You this, This brings up a tangent that I actually wanted to discuss while Arcos is still awake and lucid, And I'm glad you'll hear uv, because you know the segway is ub did hype up Winter Spring a lot on the show, and it got me really excited.

And maybe part of the problem with my perception of Winter Spring was Ubiquitous's words hanging in the back of my head, going, oh, this is just gonna this is his favorite zone in the game.

Now, I trust Ubiquitous, He's a fucking gamer.

I'm going to love this.

This is going to be sick, and it ultimately ultimately fell just a little bit flat of the expectations that I had, you know, conjured in my own head.

Arcos raised a similar point, and I think this is a really really fair thing to discuss, where he goes like, you know, fucking hell, guys, I did the Dead Minds, I did you know, whaling Cabins.

What fucking you guys on about like that?

Yeah, okay, it's new, it's different, but like you guys hyped it up so much, it wasn't that fucking great.

And even though the vast majority of us are saying, No, Arcos, You're wrong.

It was amazing.

I think it's fair to for Arcos to say that the hype on the podcast might be distorting people's views on Epoch, because if they just went in blind, they might feel differently as opposed to having us fuck withits fully pump everything up ar costs.

I'll throw it to you, mate, and just let you you know.

We can shout you down for being a fucking idiot any day of the week, but have your moment now and again give us your review of your whaling cabins and Deadminds experience.

Yeah.

Me, I'm pretty sure you asked people to pull out the pitsforks lust for me saying the.

Sounds sounds like something I would.

Say, I'm sitting you with mine right now.

So yeah, yikes, man, No, I think I think.

I think what I said about the wedding Currents is absolutely true and fair.

Mum hm, I understand completely where you're coming from with with your experience.

Yeah, I don't know what the fucking Mariam, let's say like you were dumb to call me out.

Josh gonna expand on.

I think I can add something here.

Sure, I think that Arcos is right in a way that it's from one perspective, it's not your content is not anything special.

Like the best content the game is the original content the Blizzard made.

What I enjoy about what Epoch is.

They just they're adding to it in a way that seems like faith like faithful, faithful to Blizzard's original work.

They're not like reinventing the wheel.

They're just adding hubcaps to it, and it just makes over experience better.

Like we all love the game that's wore playing classic, you know, playing a classic version of it, But it's adding sprinkles to and otherwise good ice cream.

It's not giving you a whole different flavors, just adding a top in to it.

I think I'll disagree just for willing currents, because I enjoyed it the same small amount as I did twenty years ago and every time since.

But I can't comment on like a lot of the higher level level stuff.

To be fair, though, can I just say.

It's a shit level twenty dungeon.

It was always shit except like the first, very very very first time you did it, I've never enjoyed it.

So like whatever change they made wasn't really going to be wow for me.

Well, so maybe I am a really bad representative of this.

Well I was going to call you out on that because I think to be fair, you know, I do, I do personally I love like a son, but I attribute a massive boy who cried wolf kind of you know, uh personality to you in terms of like you know, and I've been critical of other people that we love in the guild of this very thing where I'm like, you know, when one hundred percent of the words that come out of your mouth and negative, it's hard to attach much weight to complaints, like you know what I mean.

So when like you fucking and in guild chat, in voice chat, you were just dunking on everything all the time, like you never have a nice thing to say about anything.

So when you say that you hated whaling cabins, I just dismissed the opinion because I'm like, well, fucking mate, you hate you'd hate sex, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I get it.

And I do try to profess that I am.

I'm not the customer pads that this is made for.

Right like this level in Dungeon, I don't care like I would.

I would be perfectly happy if they didn't touch any level in dungeon like, that isn't the content that I'm here for, right, So I'm I'm not going to be really well.

I won't say not because I haven't done like many of the dungeons, but I'm not expecting to be wowed by level in dungeons, and that isn't content that I'm looking for.

I still haven't done that much, right, I haven't done as of k I haven't done Razo fund downs or crawl right like, and I'm not intending to.

So I do preface my opinion here that I'm not the target market for this, so, like my opinion really doesn't CARRYMNS weight anyway.

Is that fair?

Now?

That's fair?

And now, Vestige, I'm glad you fucking piped out because I'll have a bone to pick with you as well.

Vestige, you want to say, are Josh, You're toxically positive towards this server.

All you ever do is speak positivity towards it, and you're doing as much damage as the person who cries wolf and always speaks negativity about it.

Obviously, I called you out recently for being like the Camp of ArkOS and just being Captain negative all the time, I would disagree that I'm always positive.

I think the show has been like pretty forthright about Hey, this game is a buggy mess.

I agree, there's fucking bugs everywhere.

Oh hey, like it sucks that this quest was broken, or it sucks that this dungeon boss was buggy.

But you know, if you want to get upset that, I don't give a fuck.

That's that's something.

But like, I don't think it's also fair to say that when we're painting Epoch, is this bastion of perfection and positivity.

No, but we've just gone from you saying that the Winter Springs sucked thick and Gubecutus was a cunt to them, like thirty seconds going okay, I changed my opinion composed.

Well, to be fair, that is so fucking hyperbolic that assessment.

I didn't say it sucked, Dick, I said I had fun, but I don't think it added as much as you've made it out to eve anyway, Yeah, fucking read no, no no, But also if people it's not the show where you can't criticize me, but like I think this is we should probably lean in on this.

No no, no, like not so much you are costs, But like, Vestige, are you here?

You must be here, Vestige, let's go, mate, don't don't be shy.

And I can hear it in your voice, So you're going to be like, oh, fuck, how am I going to navigate calling this guy a caunt on his own show?

Don't don't feel like that, but like I would never it is fair to be like Josh, you know, are you selling a you know, when you sell people on epoch?

Are we actively ignoring the bad parts just in order to get people involved when those bad parts do exist?

I just you know me, Vestige, And I've explained this before to people where I'm like, I don't subscribe to the average online gamer's mindset of let's just dunk on everything all the time because that's the fun way to be a gamer.

Like, I think that there is a backlash towards positivity and gaming in general.

And if you, if you are the kind of player like me that abides a bug, then you're part of the problem.

Oh you're a fucking idiot, Like how can you how can you say that you're okay with bugs?

Like you're not a gamer?

Like gaming is supposed to be fucking perfect and work well and all that stuff.

But like I just I'm having fun with this server, and I'm being, you know, incredibly proud of professing the fun that I'm having with it, as opposed to focusing on the negative, which does absolutely exist.

Does that make sense?

It does, But at the same time, it really does feel like a positivity is excessive sometimes.

Okay, tell me, give me examples.

Well, it's just the gushing of gushing of gush sheen.

It's like, okay, you just say, well, well, if you guys run into a problem, just you know, read, just go get another group or do something like this or do whatever, just you know, so we run it, and I'm like, okay, So for example, I had a BRD the other night with a pug no gilties, and you ran into the mage boss in the arena.

Straight up.

He is broken, overtuned, busted, wipes us multiple times.

Okay, that group falls apart.

I now go get another group.

Run into the same mage boss in the arena.

We got unlucky with the draw.

We again tried to kill the boss, kills us, wipes us because it's overtuned.

Now you may say, well, just go get another group, go do something else, go have fun else.

Well, I just spent an hour plus trying to run this thing when I only had limited time to do it, and now I didn't get anywhere with it.

Didn't you say you didn't you say you went in there under leveled.

No, we went there appropriate level for that part.

No, no, no, no appropriate level historically appropriate level for APAUK question mark.

Uh yeah, I would say once we got the once I got to the third run, we actually got all the way.

To the seven.

It was with the same kind of level people.

But what you would level fifty two, right, I was a fifty three.

Fifty three okay, healing other groups are clearing this boss, isn't that right?

The mage boss?

Yeah, the higher level people like fifty three.

That guy is bugged as fuck.

Yeah, no, sixties, I'm not disputing it.

Tunes easily kill the other boss of fifty three, only one.

I would think it's bugged.

Maybe it's overtuned.

I have me invested.

We're very much commiserating over that boss in discord chat, and we could handle the rest of the arena bosses at fifty two, no problem.

That one particular boss is just fucked.

Okay, No, problem.

The next one we got the were wolf or whatever and he died.

Is I died pretty quickly?

It wasn't issue.

What what I'm getting at these This is going to be a bashing of heads between you and me, Vestige, because as you say, it's it's the clash of just fucking get over it, or you know, is the game the problem where I'm like, but but I am, and tell me if I'm wrong.

I am hearing reports that other groups can kill the boss.

So the first questions to pop up in my head are accepting that this boss is overtuned.

I agree with you.

Let it.

Let's say it's one hundred percent overtuned.

Lock it in bang, that's you know, naughty Epoch, naughty.

There's absolutely bosses in this game that are overtuned that have to be addressed.

But if the boss is still defeatable and you can just come back in a few levels and do it, what are we talking about?

So my main point is that let's say you're in a group with the Pug and you're going to try to kill this boss, and you encounter a boss that's pretty much unkillable to your level.

It's like one of the first bosses you're encountering in BRD and it's unkillable.

Yeah, okay.

Now, we again are gamers quote unquote, and we play this game a lot.

We talk about this game a lot.

So if we're frustrated or whatever, we'll go do something else, or we'll just you know, chalk it up to whatever.

But let's say you're the average person coming to that.

Are you going to be having fun at that point?

Thinking?

But isn't isn't the answer?

Literally?

Just level high?

You overcome the.

Group together.

I spent the time to go to this place, and.

You discovered and you discovered the faults, right, and the fault has an answer, which is come back later.

That's not Do you want to come back to your early fifties content at sixties?

But you want to do a full br DA run like eventually?

I mean, no, sorry, let's take this back.

You have to Let's say you're high level.

You still want the items at the end of BRD.

Do you not still have to go through arena to get there or not?

No, you can you can skip a bit.

And I'm not saying you're gonna do the full BRD at that level.

We didn't plan to do that we were just going to go far as we could go.

But the point is is that you've set the side of the time, you've gotten a quest together, you've gotten a group together, you've traveled to the instance, you're planning to send this much time to do this tonight, to do this dungeon, okay, and you're encountering something that is stopping you from doing it.

That is no fault of your own.

It is an overtuon or bug, whatever you want to call it.

There is a problem.

That problem should still be acknowledged as a problem, and the fact that it still exists right now after some time.

There hasn't been a quick hot fix on it.

There hasn't been adjustment or whatever.

And the only solution, in your opinion, is to just go fucking do something else.

Yeah, it's always going it's always going to be my solution because at the end of the day, the free game that you're playing has alternate avenues for you to go and do other content.

Now, but here's the thing, I don't feel like we're putting enough stress on.

I am agreeing with you that this is bad, This should be fixed.

This absolutely, it's a shit bug.

There's this boss and the Salamander Boss are overtuned like that the salamander bug is fucking annoying.

But at a certain point you point back to me and say that my saying go do other shit is unacceptable.

It's not unacceptable.

I'm just saying that you're discounting it, that that becomes the answer to anything that kind.

Of But am I discounting it by acknowledging that it shit?

I'm not saying I'm not saying this is good good, I'm glad that fucking boss hits like that.

Oh I think they've tuned it perfectly.

Blah blah.

I'm not saying any of that.

It is overtuned.

It is shit.

They are absolutely how they have a weird priority of bug fixing on this server.

There's this innocuate shit being fixed that, like, wouldn't it take two seconds to change some lines of code and just fix this boss?

Completely agree?

Why the fuck aren't they on it?

This is weird, guys, what's going on?

Do it?

But I guess I don't categorize this as game breaking, particularly within the context of a free game.

I thought the I hate tell me why you hate the argument.

I feel as if we're getting told that we glaze too much and don't scathe enough.

But that's just a personality thing.

Like if you get cut off in traffic and you call that guy a fucking can't fuck you, how'd you fucking cut me off?

YadA yadayada, and I shrug it off.

That's just a difference between you and I, and there's no fault, there's no better than the other.

So that's just why I don't rip the game to shreds, because I'm just not a fucking super negatively critical person.

And then other people are that other side.

That's why there's twenty of us in this discord to talk shit through.

So I understand, like someone can use saying that me and Josh glaze too much and we don't rip it to shit.

I sit here and go fox.

Some of you guys are negative as shit.

Eh.

It's just that's the whole point of discourse about anything, right, So I believe that's where this started from.

That was the whole point of we don't seem to give it enough poo poo reviews.

But that's a personality thing, right, So I just wanted to point that out.

I feel like we're getting told you should be more negative if you want, and I mean we have been.

We've said that something suck.

But if you want me to just be more animated about how much they suck, I can do that.

But I just don't think it's that.

I genuinely have not found anything in this game other than other players ruining my time that have made me go this sucks.

I don't want to play it right now.

We would think we talked about this.

I don't vestige.

I don't want you to feel like you're being like shouted down into submission.

Like I still want you to carry on, and I know, like you're a smart guy, you'll make your point and not feel the need to cow to you be and I are, But that's like you'd be saying, that's the point of this show.

There's the reason there's fucking a thousand of us in this voice channel, so people can say whatever the fuck they want.

But I don't want you to miss I don't want people sorry, not you.

I don't want listeners to misconstrue me pushing back vigorously on your point as for some reason making people think they're not allowed to disagree with me.

That's not the fucking case at all, but as you be saying, like we were just talking about actually before we started recording again, my attitude towards like broken talents where like Druids or or you know you vestige absolutely with the priest the search of Light not working on the healing aspect of the talent is that's fucked that shit.

That would be really annoying if I was trying to heal in dungeons, I completely agree.

But my attitude towards that is also not game breaking.

I mean, if I were playing a priest, or playing a Druid, or playing whatever class has the broken important talents, I personally am not like firing up a podcast to go.

These fucking idiots over at Epoch don't know what the fuck they're doing.

How could you dare have this fucking class not operating, it's a joke.

Get your shit together.

You want to take our money on the shop, you fucking pieces as shit, Get your game going.

Like I just I don't care.

And I'm not saying the game is unplayable.

If the game was unplayable, I wouldn't be playing it.

But what I'm saying is there are legitimate things you can criticize and praise.

Yeah, there's lots of things I praise on this server.

There's a lot of things I like about this too, But I just from my opinion, and it's my opinion.

The glazing is very hard sometimes, and there is legitimate things that could be talked about as concerns or problems, Yeah, are brushed apart really quickly.

Yeah, But I'm just trying to say, it's like, what have I glazed that is actually broken?

You know what I mean?

Like, let's just say we're criticizing a cake and the is horrible and dry, but the icing is really good.

I'm allowed to say that the icing is good and I'm glazing the icing, But if we want to talk about the cake, I'll say that it's dry.

That's where I'm getting a bit confused about what the point is.

It's like, it's not like I've glazed the living shit out of winter Spring and then you go there and there's literally not a quest to do Like that is where that would be wrong.

But if I say winter Spring is good because I think that it is, and they're nothing's broken, all the quests work and I like doing them, then I can say that it's good.

I could understand the criticism of your over glazing.

If like I said, this zone is amazing and you go there's literally not even a town like that, I could understand from that perspective.

That's all I'm And again, it's just it's it's personality when it comes to criticism about things like we're not we're not getting paid to go one for one debate class on this game, and stuff like that.

And like Josh, you're saying, there could be I mean, and the Frost talent for Shatter is probably still fucking broken, Like it doesn't even do anything.

Another version of me could sit here and say, don't play Mage because this talent is broken.

There's probably majors.

There's literally people in the discord that have said that, don't fucking play Mage because this talent is broken.

I'm just not the kind of person to say something like that.

I would say, play different spec and then they should patch it, like that's the criticism, the devs should fix it.

Yeah, it's just one of those things.

I just I don't understand saying that we're being overly positive about the things that weren't being positive about.

That's all I just want to dive into.

If we want to talk shit things.

We can talk shit things and then I'll give scathing reviews.

I think it's fair to raise those as well, like Vestige.

Stop me if I'm extrapolating, but I feel like you're about to say before that you hate the argument of this is a free server.

You know, sheath your the sharpness of your criticism because of the fact that it is a free survey.

Is that Is that something you were gonna say?

Or am I going wild on this?

Yeah?

I mean in general, yes, I hear that argument a lot applied to everything with this, where it's like, well, it's a free service, so you can't have any opinion on it.

Oh well, well, well that's that's massive hyperboles, like just settle the fuck down.

No, I'm not saying you're saying that, but I hear that a lot, right in general.

Not saying you're saying that.

I'm just saying I hear that from people where that's the instant way to shut you down, where you know, well I have problems with this, or I wish they could do this better.

Well it's a free fucking server, so deal with it or go get lost.

I'm like, well, that's not constructive, you know, to the situation here.

If you have a suggestion or an idea or a complaint, you can bring that up within the context of, yes, it is a service that is being done free with the cash shop and all this other stuff.

But you can take it in that context and go with it.

But you know, I don't like that as the well it's free, shut up and deal with it.

Get what you like.

No, I think there's a halfway point there where it's like I'm saying, like, I agree that criticism is valid in terms of like I've said, like, there are very glaringly obvious things that in a world where they are and they are they are fixing bugs on an ongoing daily basis on this server, and so in a world where that work is being put in what is going on with the triage system, where the priority isn't shifted to the big ones, I completely agree, like that is super odd and worthy of criticism.

But then I guess, I guess it gets to a discussion about the level or severity of the criticism in like I say, within the context of this being a free server, I don't I agree it this being a free server does not absolve them one hundred percent of criticism, but I do.

I guess it comes down to an argument between you and I of whether or not you agree that it mitigates it.

It does to a point it would probably.

Make sorry keep on.

I was just thinking about, like a path of exile is free, doesn't mean you are not allowed to complain about bugs in paths of exile.

Yep, that's a point.

But basically, if if it was still under Project Epoch, there was no ascension involved, it was still under the Project EPOC team, I would probably give it a lot more passing with the bug fixes because if they were a first time, small, smaller team blah blah blah.

Now that's under ascension, I'm kind of, I guess expecting more.

You know, it's a bigger team or or your company you can call it, or whatever that's now taking this on.

I know they're trying to make something that they didn't build work, and there's a lot involved in that, but there are a lot of things that I've seen outstanding that just haven't been addressed or fixed, which I'm surprised about.

So it makes me question is it not a priority?

Do they not have the resources to put towards that, or is there a fundamental problem that's underlining the system that's causing this that needs to be addressed, and that's why they're trying to fix a bunch of them at once by fixing the underlying problem.

I don't know, and alls I could do is wait and hope.

And thankfully none of them are game breaking.

None of it's where I can't use my ability.

None of it's where I'm falling through the world or charging somebody if I was a warrior or something like that, or not blinking through walls and getting stuck in every object in the world.

No, none of it's crazy like that.

But at this day and age, I think we do typically expect more, and I am questioning, Okay, well, when are we going to get that stuff?

Because I don't feel we can go on to the next phase of rating or anything or into fading at all until we get a lot of this stuff fixed, and I'd like to see a lot more progress towards that.

I would book somewhat a we can't go forward, so I go alcohol.

I think you.

Said that they're probably working on someone to links.

I think that is actually true, because if you go to the Ascension discord into the changelock for Epoch since since the fifteenth or the sixteenth, they haven't posted any like resolved bugs or changes.

So that's like three full days almost of no fixes to anything at least posted in the changelock.

But if you scroll like backwards in time, they're fixing multiple things every day every day just since they took over, right, but now we have three days with nothing at least nothing posted, So that would indicate to me at least that they are working on something large.

Right, Well, I think the biggest thing that we all need to kind of you know, keep it in the back of our mind.

Also, I mean, we don't know whether or not the Epoch devs, you know, even though they did say, oh yep, we're done, we're abandoning this, we're gonna you know, we're dropping the website, YadA, YadA.

I think the big thing we need to look at is.

How long is it going to take them to put together a dedicated team for this, because I mean Ascension has you know, Area fifty two, they have you know, they have the free roll, you know, make everything that you know, whatever you want.

Then they have Grizzly Hills they've got bronze beards, they've got conquests of Azrath, and then this was and this was just kind of dropping their lap.

Yeah, they did agree to help, but essentially they simply just agreed to help with server space and some of the networking type stuff.

So it's not the product.

What's that.

I think they agreed to acquire the product, not to just help with servers.

I think that was just the first they.

Agreed to take full control of the product when Epoch about out completely.

So when they got that, when they got that season desist, when they got that season desist, that's when Epoch was like, Nope, we're done.

And then supposedly supposedly yes, but you know, maybe a lot of it has to do with, you know, having to find that other team because I mean they look, you go to the Ascension website and just just take a long, hard look at everything that they're doing.

And yes, there are multiple teams and there's hundreds of people working on this game.

But you know, look how you look back like Classic, you know, the original Classic team was for people, right, huh?

And what it takes like the original Classic team, like when they started putting Classic back there was only Yeah, like there was originally just like four people, you know, and then when it got bigger and bigger, and the idea became more and more you know, rounded out, you know.

And then it became it did.

It became bigger, and Epoch obviously has a hell of a following.

I mean there was what nine thousand people on it one time earlier.

I mean, are are they trying to protect their rights with as far as their stuff with Bronze Beard?

Is it gonna conflict with what they're trying to do with their style classic Blass?

So obviously they're not gonna you know, dedicate that team to this, so we kind of needed I think it'd be nice to just kind of take a step back and kind of look, because we have heard, I don't know if it's been confirmed or not, but we have heard that they do have Phase two ready already.

So but.

You're going, you're right hearing.

That the that the team is gone, right, And I think if if we make that assumption that the Epoch team is gone, that they are not part of development anymore, then yeah, of course the Ascension dev team cont just take a large project like this and on top of the projects that they already have.

But I don't think we can assume just that the devs are just fucked up.

Well, I think I think really though, I mean kind of as as dedicated players like we all are, I think maybe we should make that go ahead and make that as some that maybe, you know, once they got rid of it, maybe possibly essentially said Okay, well, if you're going to do this and you're gonna do that, then we don't want you.

We want to bring in fresh, fresh eyes on this.

It's a possibility.

It's absolutely a possibility that they genuinely were spooked enough by the legality of everything that they just fucking no doubt.

It's absolutely a possibility.

Yeah, to build a.

Whole new deliverer.

You're you're perfectly capable of creating an anonymous discord account of the get up account to work on a private for a project without being fund out.

No.

No, but that's what I'm saying.

But but it's not about it's not about probability, archass, it's about possibility, you know what I mean.

So, like, it's equally possible that the epochs they have said, uh, yeah, fuck you, we're just going to say we're leaving, but we're just going to keep working on the game and honors anonymously as it is as possible that they were completely spurked and said, you know what, this is a bit too adult for us.

We're leaving, of course.

Like, and we don't know any of the behind the scenes information, right we can only speculate, but I would think that there's in whichever agreement was made between the Epoch team and the Ascension team, there's financial incentive for them to stay.

Like they will have invested a lot of time and probably some of their own funds into creating the project over the however many years it was their own project.

I don't think people with technical knowledge will run away from financial investment that they made because they're afraid the FBI is, like, I don't know, have a fucking key look around their computer or something.

I don't think that's realistic.

But you know, this is super speculation, right, I mean.

It's impossible to know, but from the player perspective, we should work under the assumption that they're gone, whether however likely or unlikely.

That is, because that's at least the official stance.

I think that's a fine slums to take, right but you know, I just think everything should be you know, haven't uster it's it's complete speculations.

Yeah, but if you're a mom and dad and that was your passion project to develop a pop right and as soon as someone comes and knocks on your door or send you an email saying, you know, says didn't desist, you're going to stop, right because you've got other things on the balls, are on the line with the whole family.

And yeah, but you had to know that was going to happen, I mean even and get it of you like you knew it was going to happen eventually.

You've been working on this for two years.

Like you can't do that with the assumption.

That's like, no one.

Didn't the guys know they already already made the sale and they got their bag and there was nothing really more for them anyway.

Yeah, you know, and maybe they paid up there you're saying.

There, you get to another point, right, if they made a sale, if they sold the project to Ascension, then it is upon Ascension to keep developers on.

It doesn't matter if it's the old developers or if it's new ones.

But the first assumption was that this project fell into their laps and they don't have the dev team to pick it up.

But if Ascension went into a contract negotiation to buy a project, they wouldn't do that unless they have developers to develop the project.

Yeah, and if you were selling up to me, you would have a transition period where I'd still consult for you and give you like of course roadmap and the items that you needed to You would on board everyone who's new, and you transition to a new team that are going to develop.

And so the new team are developing and you're consulting for them.

That's what the EPOP team will do, just be consultants.

Or unless he really got spooked and changed his mind and buggered off.

You can have we have no id, we have no idea.

You can easily have a consultation and discussion that is completely hypothetical.

Right then, Well didn't didn't So after Nestalarius didn't, After they got that seasoned assist and they shut down, didn't they turn around and also make another They released.

They released the source code and we had Lights of one and Lights of two which was based off the TB.

I don't think it's the same people.

MHM from our perspective at this point, does it.

Matter like, oh no, I'm having a blast.

Yeah, I mean I don't really.

Personally, I don't care either way as far as criticism of it goes, which I think is super valid, and I often share a lot of the criticism the Vestage has, at least in our discord chat.

I think the value of it from my perspective is being able to like try and put whatever influence we can towards the future Blizzard Classic Plus and just trying to like it's worthwhile having the criticism and airing the criticism so that mistakes that were made on Epoch are not repeated in a future official Classic Plus.

You know when that well.

And don't get me wrong, I am very positive on this server.

There are some things on day done in here that I absolutely love.

But no one.

I don't want you to feel like no one's forcing you to be like I know you kind of noo say what I want to say.

I say what I'm wanting to help me damned but yeah, sorry, Josh, the check didn't clear this week.

So I'm going to say what I want to say exactly exactly.

I'll tell you what though, I got to kind of reiterate back on what you know.

Something Josh had said in the last part was, you know, Blizzard turns around and they make their classic plus if it's not anything close to what we've been seeing, whether you're you've played t Wow or Epoch or on Broad'sbeard or Conquest of Asrath or anything like that, If Blizzard doesn't pull something out of their hat, I'm fucking done.

Like I can't I completely uninstalled Battle dun It, like I can't even.

Can I just mention on that just this is relatively tangential to and thank you so much for a brilliant discussion there, guys, Like, by no means are we necessarily done with that?

That might carry on in future episodes, And like, like I said, sorry, I don't mean to sound like condescending, because that's not the message I'm trying to send.

But like when I say the vestige, like, you know, don't feel compelled to say that, you know, oh, okay, obligatory just for Josh, Yes, this server is fun, Like, by no means does anyone feel the need to say that?

But on this tangent, we might come back to the negative TDVDY thing in a second, because Like I said, I think we're all agreeing that the criticisms are valid.

It's now just a forum or a debate on how those criticisms, sorry, how the problems with the server make you feel.

But anyway, on this note about the Blizzard thing, I've been wondering over the last few days, how I will feel, and I genuinely don't know the answer at this stage, how I will feel in the hypothetical world where Blizzard releases a fucking great Classic Plus.

Let's just say, just completely hypothetically, they knock it out of the park ten out of ten.

Oh my god, it's really good.

But it is still inundated with bots and gold selling and all the bullshit with RMT, and none of that has changed from what SOD was, from what Anniversary is.

All that shit, Your chat is still flooded with, you know, all the same fucking things that you normally see, all that shit.

How would you feel about that Classic Plus product?

And would you still play it?

Absolutely not?

Hell?

Now?

No?

Right?

So are we saying and because this is what I'm leaning towards, are we saying It's not about the content anymore, It's about the management.

The gameplay experience.

On epak just takes over from the no bots.

And no money.

I'd still play.

When I made my Hunter last night, probably ten ten spam names keyboard match names were just popping in with me.

It's a scale thing.

They're managing three servers, two servers, and they've got eyes on the problem, whereas Blizzard's got to manage you know, fucking shiploads more servers, tens of thousands of more people and way more creations of characters and accounts like are doing a great job.

It's just like to say there is no bots is yeah, but they don't get far, like there's always going to be a look before bot.

But the thing is why they don't get far.

Yeah, why they don't get far is because there's like less to look at, Like it's a much smaller scale.

Ah, I would I strongly disagree.

No, they're just people to actually yeah, like this, I understand.

Is that, but is that plausible, like isla people to watch millions.

Of of Yes, I've said this facetiously multiple times.

Blizzard could fucking employ me to do it for free, and I guarantee you I could single handedly just per bots ll fucking day, like one man one GM man could just purge classic of bots comfortably in an eight hour shift.

You could fuck off fifty thousand fucking bots pretty easily.

You could get a volunteer for us to do this if they really want to solve the problem.

That they just don't really want to solve the problem because there are different uh points of view with what they want.

Epoch wants to solve the bot problem right away because bots are only going to hurt them.

It's only going to hurt the server.

It's only going to hurt people's impressions of it.

Versus Blizzard.

You're paying a sub feet, so they're getting money from these bots being there.

So they want the maximum amount of bots that can be allowed without damaging the server, and so that there are always.

Like five isn't worth you know, like it's not worth it, but.

It doesn't turn off one stuff doesn't do something about it.

I don't think they should do something different, for sure, like they need to do more yep.

But to say that this server is perfect and that bots don't exist is wrong.

I don't think the service, it's their policy is perfect towards it.

I'm not sure that it is though, you know, like it's like they still exist.

If it was perfect, they wouldn't even be longing?

Can I say, though, just on that Marcus, what like this is such a silly thing to say, But how do we deem perfection?

Because like, there is an obvious answer to that question.

But what I'm getting at is I am still I'm going to give you right now my slash play, which is something very disgusting.

Oh wait, I'm on the wrong character.

Let's say I'm at ten days because I am a ten days slash play right two hundred and forty two hundred and fifty hours on this server.

If through my journey through all the zones and I'm back on an Olt now, I'm at level nineteen on my Paladin going through Silver Pine, went through most of the zones in the world on my one to sixty journey on my Warlock over the last month.

If I've gone through that journey and I've seen one bot, is it?

Is it?

I'm not incorrect for saying bots absolutely exist on this server, but at what point?

Is is it a semi disingenuous point to make where they virtually don't exist?

If you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, like the fact that they do exist.

I mean, I'm pretty like black and white on it.

Man.

If they exist, they exist until they don't exist exist.

But what I'm getting out isn't incorrect, no, no, but.

That we're getting into the ultimate semantics argument here.

But what I'm saying is by you sort of stressing the point.

Hey, guys, don't say bots don't exist here when they absolutely do, you are correct.

But when we're talking about what percentage of the overall population and how often are you encountering them, at what point, even though they exist, are they still a bit of a boogeyman?

I mean, as long as they're generating some sort of money and offloading it before they can get banned.

And yes, it's a problem.

And the one that I've seen in thousand needles was like level thirty four, So that's made a little bit of gold and pumped it into the economy.

But where they.

Differ here is they're really targeting the market as well.

I think that's a great initiative, banning people for buying gold.

It's great.

There's always going to be cheap, right, Yeah, there's always going to be This feels a bit like saying there's no knife crime and someone goes, well, one person did get stabed fourteen years ago, so knife crime does exist, and it's like, yeah, yeah, but you know not, there's not nine stabbings a day like it's the impact of the bots on here is almost zero, Like they have zero point zero one percent impact on the fucking server compared to until.

I mean, I get it, but I'm always going to go I'm always going to be like, well they exist, I see them, and until I don't see them or shown that they just don't exist somehow, then I'll say that they exist.

I mean, there's no way to get me away from that.

That's there.

How many how many have you seen?

I feel like an ask mate, how many have you seen?

Now?

Well, it was probably three until last night when I logged on, and I've seen ten come on while I was just in that one area.

So when they'll probably just remove like straight away right.

If there was a.

GM there watching, they would have been deleted because there was just like ten people with key mash names log on almost instantly right at the same time.

I made my character.

And then I didn't really pay much mind to it.

But yeah, three others prior to that.

Let me let me pull us back, you've bet something you said earlier, because this whole conversation is around I want to get to the crux of how customers feel in terms of Blizzard has just created the greatest fucking Classic Plus server of all time, but it's riddled with bots and r m T.

Still you be, you said, And I haven't given my answer because, like I said, this is the the conundrum I'm having.

I don't know what my answer is.

I think I know the answer, but I'm not sold on myself yet.

You said you'd still check it out talk to us more about that.

I'd definitely play any official Classic Plus that they release at least give it a try, and just being honest with myself, i'd probably play it religiously like I have all the other versions that have been riddled with bots anyway, but I would just be annoyed by it, you know what I mean.

It's not it's kind of like I mean, I'm just ripping really shit andnalergies this morning.

But it's kind of like, here we go.

You had a nice you had a nice piece of cake last year, and then you're swearing yourself off or.

Cake forever because it's with you and what's going.

On with It's easy, it's easy.

It's an easy reference.

But you know what I mean.

It's like, sure, Epoch is good and it would be nice if this was upscaled and official, but like I can't not just play Wow ever again because Epoch was my honey from summer's past.

Like yeah, yeah, that's fair, and.

Yeah, like I think it could be offset by the capacity that an official launch would have, like ye in my mind anyway, like the production of it and what they would be able to crank out and the quality of it would offset at least the bot crisis a little bit.

But I mean, it feels horrible to say that, Like I wish there wouldn't be bots.

This has been so fun.

It's fun that I'm fucking poor, and I know that most other people are too, and fel cloth costs for fucking gold right now, and a maybe killing mobs to try and farm it.

Knowing that at least this feels like honest work right now and there's not just I'm not versing some guy that's swiped five hundred gold this morning.

So it would be nice if it existed.

I'm just kind of skeptical of the reality.

Of it, because at the end of the day, Epoch are banning free accounts Blizzard of canceling subs, fraudulent credit card abuse or otherwise them banning accounts cost them money, and I don't personally believe they always give that reason that, oh, if we ban accounts, we weren't actually getting money from them anyway, because you know, it was a scam either they use the credit card scam or some shit, and they don't make money off it.

I think that's a load of fucking blowney.

And they make millions of dollars a year knowingly that there's a bunch of fucking bots that pay for their sub well, not only that.

They would have to pay people to go after the bots.

Yeah, yeah, so they'd be paying money to take money away.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

And that's where it's kind of sad to know that that's just the reality of it, and they're probably not going to budge on it.

But yeah, I still would play They're shitty, bot riddled but good classic plus.

Yeah, I mean every other iteration of like Blizzard servers had bots, that hasn't keep kept me from playing them.

Like it sucks, Yeah, it sucks, Like they fuck up the economy.

But but still like I played Rath, I had fun, I played TBC had fun, I played twenty nineteen Classic, I had fun.

And there's gonna be but I'm sorry to say, but there's gonna be bots in a Classic Plus.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And and you're right, there's no right or wrong answer here.

I'm genuinely just feeling out people's thoughts and feelings.

Well, I think I.

Might be a somewhat interesting test case in that I've absolutely played every single iteration, but how much I've played each iteration has varied.

I think like if a Classic Plus were to come out, all one hundred percent try it.

But the question isn't like will I sub Initially it's will they get me for a month?

Will they get me for three months?

Will they get me for a year.

They haven't gotten me for a year yet, you know, they've me for maybe six months, maybe around Wrath, just because at that point the bots kind of didn't matter at as much at that point because you know the damage was done.

And I just think, you know, it's a question of you know, most of these things, realistically they're relying on on on whales, right, like it's one of those things that follows like that twenty eighty rule, right, where like twenty percent are going to spend eighty percent on you know, on their cash.

Oops or whatever.

But is it possible that they can expand their user base enough that it's worth cracking down on the short term gains that happens when you have all these bots, so that they have somebody like me not on sub after the two or three month point, which is you know, generally what's happened with me at least, or maybe I'll come back a little bit and then on sub again.

But you know, you mentioned, Josh, I believe a previous episode that you had been subbed the entire time up until just depawk now.

Yeah, Like that's just not my experience at all personally, Right.

I've very much been the three months now, I'm done now, And so it's I don't know how many people there are like me that come for three months go oh right, this is why I'm not doing this, and then unsub and if they're if it's possible to get people like me to go like no, I want to do this for years continuously.

Yeah, I don't know if that math works out for them, But that would be that would be the hope, right, that there would be.

Enough players that while they get addicted, they're not so addicted that they don't have enough self respect to go like now I'm going to do something else all my time, and that they make a product so good that you know, people go, you know, actually, this is a good.

Use of my time, and I'm going to keep doing this at nauseum.

Have you guys watched the YouTube video on how wow bots actually.

Work and how they do it?

No, I've seen some videos about.

It, yeah, because yes, Basically, like there's this guy from Sweden who was running six bots on a EU server I think, and he basically explained how these big bots companies do it with their software.

And basically when Blizzard, when Blizzard Software finds a specific bot and bands, then they ban all of those bots.

But then.

This big corporation just makes another software, like a different one, puts that out in the game, so they basically never get rid of all the bots.

They just replace the software.

Yeah, stress every time they do a bundle with that just and they just come back because they they're not tying like a credit card in the name of the owner of the bot and that networks all the desert can like just ban that credit card or the pietres right, it's all just VP to ship and the USON prepared or whatever it for game time.

So it's that's theress.

So I understand the whole arms race detection software versus each other bullshit, which I personally think is a load of fucking bologna again, because I don't.

It's just frustrating.

Where if it's a very good bot and it is very hard to detect fair play, but when I see the same fucking hunter in Selthus for nine fucking months walking through fucking walls, that's not a detection fucking problem.

That's just to get some fucking human eyeballs on your server and your game and your product, and go, gee whiz, this rogue has been walking underneath the fucking zone for six months.

Maybe he should get banned.

Like that's that.

I had one of these and fellow with on like at that server right, like we were the only alliance killed rating on the server, and that was hurting and fellow with and there's this or bolt running up and done against me, and I reported him, I think a week or two later, I got an in game medal.

Thanks for the report.

But then two weeks later the bot was back there, like the same one with the same name.

Like it's it's so fucked it's it's insane.

I just it's I mean, I'm just being silly, But I couldn't imagine working at Blizzard and it's like Friday knockoff and you go, you know what, lads, I'll bring a six pack and let's all just fly around and band comes for an hour while we have tinnys.

Like I can't imagine that, not like it would almost be fun.

Imagine being a dev going, yeah, let's take the band hammer out of its glass case and just go for a peruse and fly around.

And I just don't understand why that's not just a more common thing.

It's like, I don't know if they've overcorped themselves where it's like out of their jurisdiction as a dev developer to even be allowed to do that crap.

But I just, for the life of me, I don't know how it's not even tempting for to say, like Tim, to be like, oh, this would be funny, let's just go on a purge.

Thanks for the timorright man, thanks Arcos, appreciate it.

Boys.

We'll take a turn here, We'll try and thank you so much for what has been a good, sort of heavy part of the podcast.

Well might take a turn back towards the light now, Yubi, while I've got your mate you missed.

Lazarus did a great job trying to do the retelling of your fabled Strathholme run last night.

Sorry two nights ago, I should say you wouldn't have heard it.

But is there anything that you feel like real quick?

Don't retell the whole thing, but anything that must be said that you want to chime in for your two cents on it?

Where where we're leaving name out of it.

By the way, I'm still trying to process the trauma and don't wish to elaborate on the events at this time.

How damn it?

How damaged were you?

Tell us some of the things you were saying in discord, Arcos said you were fucking hilarious.

Oh, warriors got bashed.

I might have generalized that their entire class are brain dead and this is just what they fucking are like, and curse the entire class out, and then Holy Pally's copped it there on the band list, try and DM me and tell me you'll heal me my run to prove me wrong.

No, no, I'm gonna heal you in the dead minds this weekend and prove you wrong.

Well, no you can, yeah, I just Holy Pally's in the bin or in the gulag gone DPS warriors.

Turns out that they're hunters and warriors all still brain dead.

But yeah, that's why I was late this morning.

I'd put myself in a self induced coma to get over what happened.

Mates the look, I mean to be fair, I said to Lazarus, like, I don't know necessarily that this guy should bring down the whole class with him, Like your heeler just literally wasn't pressing his buttons versus it being a Holy Paladine issue.

Oh yeah, I'm being silly, Holy pals in the bin.

In the bin, all right, all right, it's.

The other one.

Prove me wrong, prove you wrong.

Good, No, old level one you well you've got a warrior old now you're you've been intrigued by warrior tanking this whole time.

So are you going to go through with it or what?

Yeah?

Yeah, I intend to level him up.

I'm just farming.

I want to farm one hundred gold on my age.

I can give him dual spec so that I can like do the leveling experience properly and switch to prop for dungeons and stuff, because I do want to try it.

I've had I it is the Yeah, I had a warrior tank in a scollar a week ago and I still think about him twice a day.

He was that fucking fantastic and all the rest of them have been dogshit.

So like, I don't know if he's just the best warrior on the server or not, but that was a dreamy run and I'm just wondering why the rest can't do it or what.

So I need to go find out for myself.

All right, is there, guys?

Should we Does anyone have stories for Do we have enough stories for a Kangaroo court?

Has anyone been filing down things against their guilties?

Just a show of hands, who's got a kangaroo court story?

Yell out?

If you do, no one, you're killing me, Well.

It would be it would be you be taunting other players.

Discover I want to I want to hear about that.

No, no, no, But it's the same thing as that story, right, Yeah, so he didn't he didn't attract them personally over discord.

I'll just h ill, I'll tell sorry, I've just muted Sip and that's all right.

He's just playing with his kids.

I'll tell a story about myself and we'll see if while I'm telling this story, you guys remember anything about anyone else.

So once again, I'll nominate myself for Kangaroo Court and just say I was a bufhead where we had an lb RS run my first one, and you know, we did pretty well.

Everything was going relatively swimmingly and we got to we cleared the whole dungeon we'd heard that you know, uh, the last boss was quite tricky.

We wiped once, figured out what he did, and then killed it the second time.

It's a really fun fight.

Again, like, guys, the the fights that are quote unquote working are really fun.

And to be fair, as a continuation of last week's story, you know, Laz told me that we talked about the bug with the salamander boss in BRD and it does need to be fixed.

But Laz went back and killed it with a different group composition, so like it's it's not working as intended.

I wish they would fucking fix it.

It's silly, but it's not unkillable, Laz.

That's right, you downed it.

Yeah, you just we just went in it.

We had two physical dps just stay on the boss, ignore the ads, uh, and just had a second heel this.

You know, the off field, you know, the person who couldn't do damage, just off yield, and he was relatively easier with that strategy.

Okay, so it shouldn't Yeah.

No, you shouldn't have You shouldn't need to have a particular group comp to down a dungeon boss.

Completely agree.

Now we power through, we kill the last boss, and then we go, hey, guys, do you want to do the optional ogre boss that you summoned with the pike in the head.

And Dayron goes, yeah, fuck yeah, let's do this.

We heard it's pretty hard.

You sure you want to do it?

Yeah?

Yeah, fuck yeah, we're gamers, let's do this.

So we do the encounter and we we get through the waves and we actually do see the last boss come, but where we're incredibly um, we're low health.

We were really struggling and we wiped.

I think we got like it was the last boss and like two other mobs were still there and they just ground us down.

So we wipe, but we had an NK or something, and the last boss, sorry, the last boss, the ogre boss, did not despawn, and I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, it hasn't sworned, okay, And I literally say to the guys like, guys, go go, go, go go.

Let's res get up to health, get up your manner.

As soon as fucking possible, this thing will despawn.

Let's go go, go, go go.

We have to fucking do this because we can kill him on his own.

So the ank goes up slowly, but surely, we start raising other people.

We sit down to eat, and I'm like, okay, okay, okay, we got to do this.

We got to do this.

Were it full health, but like, well we're like seventy five percent health, seventy five percent manner, and we were all kind of like, you know, oh, I guess we just wait till we get to a hundred.

And I'm sitting there staring at my corruption button, going I should just fucking pull it.

I should just fucking pull it.

This guy's going to be sworn.

I should just fucking pull it.

And I didn't press the button.

And I think we were all having the same sort of feeling, getting a bit itchy but trying to be responsible and just waiting.

And as we were at like eighty eighty five percent health and manner, the boss de spawns in front of our eyes.

Yeah, we were all at one.

It was even worse than that.

We just got to one hundred.

I took one step forward to go to pool.

Yeah, and then spawn.

Yeah.

As a husband, there had been a solid like two to three seconds of us all at one hundred percent health and manner, right, and that's what made it all the worse.

Yeah, And and I I was I was lying behind because I remember I was waiting.

As soon as I hit one hundred, I was going to go forward.

So I was the last one.

Didn't have thought matter.

I screamed and cursed in a very loud fashion as I watched this, this boss, you know, avengers dissipate in front of our eyes, and I just got fuck, fuck, you're fucking kidding me, fuck off, Oh my god, what the fuck?

And I got fucking I didn't get toxic, but I unleashed very loudly and very crudely, not directed at anyone.

I was angry at myself more than anything for not just fucking starting the encounter, and they got very quiet in the room, and I then eventually apologized to all the boys and said, I'm sorry I went so nuts, but like I am a fucking loot whole.

And even though I don't even think you would assigned that that boss would drop cast loot, I just hate people missing out on loot opportunities because I know, like loot is relatively easy to come by, but I'm like, you should never miss the chance for luke.

And so I went fucking ballistic, and the guys did the move where like you know, everyone freezes, like Mummy and Daddy are screaming at each other at the dinner table and yeah, lads or Axle might throw it over to you.

Was there was I a bit unhinged in that moment?

You were mad?

Definitely?

I was whe everyone got quiet.

Clear to me, I was like, uh oh, like, don't be the first person to get yelled at, like whoever, Like like if we everyone speaks right now, they're gonna get the they're gonna get yelled at.

Just you know, no, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have yelled at anyone like I said.

I didn't.

I didn't say any names or highlight anyone.

I was mad or in the hole, and I was mad at myself.

You weren't to the well within normal limits, but I was laughing my ass off.

Personally, I was I felt bad.

I was like, I feel like we all felt the same, Like we all had that feeling should we try this poll now?

And now we had a couple seconds get bad, Like I felt terrible.

You know, it was It's just one of those things.

It was just one of those things.

Yeah, we were all upset.

Fucking I am just I am a really unapologetic lout whole, Like I loot pixels mean a lot to me.

Blue and purple pixels mean a lot to me.

And I know it's not why most people played the game.

They just play for the hang I play for the pixels.

I'm a fucking weirdo.

I'm a really big believer in character progression, and I play the game to make my character more powerful and and any missed opportunity, I'm like, fuck.

But anyway, that's just me.

So that's I'm kangaroo recording myself and sending myself to the gulag for that one, for for losing my fucking minds temporarily and saying a lot of fucks.

I would actually give you a pass on that one.

Oh, how come, well, I would, I would fair enough.

If anything, I would have blamed.

Las fucking lads.

It's always the tank.

It's always the tank, the tank, the benefits.

Oh good.

And now as anyone else, you don't have to Has anyone else got a fun kangaroo court story where they can throw themselves or someone else in the guild under the bus?

No?

Nothing.

It's been a quiet week, fucking ridiculous, ubiquitous.

No one's got anything mean to say about anyone.

I feel like there were some things I just keep going blank every time.

This is why you got to write it down.

That's all right, that's we need, we need, we need a kangaroo court channel.

Is Oh, that's actually a good idea.

That's a good idea.

I should create a kangaroo court channel and then we won't ever forget uh very good.

Well, look guys, let me see here.

Where are we We're two hours and fifteen minutes in.

Is there anything that you guys feel that we have to address for this edition of the podcast.

Anything that has come up this week in relation to Epoch, whether it be bug related that like people need to hear a PSA about, or fun things you've noticed about certain classes.

Hit me anything free for all right now, all.

Yes, yes, I have something done.

I just actually I actually just encountered it.

Or if you're in Desilus and you're at the thunder Axe Fortress, there is a type of mob there that can give you a curse.

That's called curse of thorns, so it is like regular thorns.

If you hit the mob, there's a fifty percent chund, so you'll do damage to yourself.

If you do damage to yourself, you'll get.

Flagged for PvP.

Nice because you're hitting yourself.

Stop hitting yourself.

Stop hitting yourself.

Exactly, Stanway, So that's a good fya.

I will say, I think I forgot to finish off my sort of story about Syllathus without being spoilery ubi.

Did you go to Syllicus.

Yes, much to my own bamboosomen Yeah, And.

I was going to say, so, I haven't said anything about what happens there.

All I've said is this is not your granddaddy Syllicus anymore.

How surprised with you?

Were you?

And do you give it a thumbs up or thumbs down?

I only went there because I got told that's where you learn the Mage water, right, the level fifty five Mage water.

So my autopilot took me to where you always go on Syllaicus and the drift that you sent of.

Looking around, going yeah, the travolta looking around.

Genuinely, I was doing that in game and in person, just like hah, because I was just full autopilot, like auto run, olt tabbed and then I'm like, I should be where I think I am by now, and then I alt tabbed back in and I was like, what the fuck?

And then I just went back to the start of the zone and found my way.

Uh.

It turns out that was a that was a bit of a fuck around for me.

The major water quest tells you to do barret and hold to find someone to teach you how to make the water.

So I just read the quest text all right, went and did a barreton hold with voodoo, didn't see anything obvious, ran around the instance for half an hour.

Afterwards, started whispering other majors, and then they said check your bags.

You never had to do Barret and hold the quest is bugged, so they just give you the book as soon as you accept the quest, right, So I went on two hour adventure for nothing.

But yeah, in regards to Scyllathus, it was very confusing.

But I didn't do any quests.

I don't even know.

I don't even know what's going on down there.

Like I'm sorry, Oh wow, you have to go and see it.

You have to.

Oh, okay, give it a look later than I because I was going to ask you whether or not you've got some sod flashbacks, but you won't know.

No, I've done nothing in the zone other than run into it.

Get confused.

Oh I did.

I did all the quests, and it's it's a thing.

It's like it's an experience.

I I liked it, but I also questioned it.

It's too hard to explain without spoilers.

So all I would encourage is for people to maybe do it this week.

If you're if you're in your if you're over fifty eight, or if you're sixty, just do old Josha favor and take a little detour down to Syllicus and do the It doesn't take super duper long, just do the few quests that are down there now and see what you reckon.

So on the park web site they describe it as like an elite zone or something like that.

Is it something that you have to do with somebody else or can you do it?

Yeah, So all I'll say, all I'll say is that all the og Sylthus quests are no more, right, That's all I'll say.

And you do different quests now and every mob in Syltha's, every mob is elite, so make of that what you will.

Obviously you might be thinking maybe I don't want to go there solo.

You can still go their solo, but you will not be doing the content solo.

So you should plan for group content.

Yes it is group content, but you don't feel the need because like groups are forming in the zone.

Don't feel the need to take a pre you know, organized group with you, but like it helps if you do.

But you know you'll find someone as a solo player as well.

And that's all I say.

That's all I say.

Maybe we'll talk about it next week or the week after where you know, it's it's very interesting.

But yeah, I'm I'm.

Very part on this over but self, this was a mess, just conceptually the zone.

I don't want to spoil it.

Yeah, just from a big pictures downpoint, it's a mess.

A little bit of sod PTSD, like I said, And people can take that, can guess to what that means.

But yeah, anyway, anyone else on anything they've seen let me think about Yeah, please go nuts.

So I thought someone I said was interesting earlier.

He said, you know they're they're making like dungeon content, you know, stuff that's not for him.

I thought it was an interesting topic, you know, because developer time is is limited and there'sn't it.

You know, there's a cost benefit do you make do you revamp old dungeons or to use that time to make new content, And it's sort of a zero sum game, you know, the more you spend on revamping lifetime for new stuff.

And I thought that even though I like that they what they did with the Bling caverns is great and the new deadmine is great, I still liked I actually, yeah, I like.

I love the old deadmines and I like the old Bhiling caverns.

There's nothing even I like what they did with it.

There was no need.

I thought it was a waste I would love to see more new content like toll Broad and new and more new dungeons because I you know, I like the old ones.

And on a negative note, if they're going to revamp them, you know they they've gone through the high of dungeons and revamp the not the assets, but they've run the boss mechanics, which is great.

But to me, they left the biggest hole and Mardon for example.

Uh, even though I liked the last boss, but there's no exit.

It's you have to like heart out and I think that's a terrible design.

I was really disappointed with mar I thought they were gonna, if they're gonna touch it, they would add an exit with dead minds, and I don't know why they didn't.

You know, little things like that.

Uh, I'd rather see that rather than revamping as good as a community.

They did a good job with dead mines and plank caverns, no no doubt, but I would rather see that time go to new content or if you know, little little things that are easy to fix, like putting an exit marit so you don't have to like heart and if your heart's on cool down, you sit there, you exit the game.

Did we do the Barreton Hold review last week on the show or not?

I think so.

I mentioned it a couple of times, but you have you have.

You done it a few more times since then.

I've done it twice total.

I think you said you gave it the thumbs up.

You're quite happy with it.

Yeah, it just it looks really really cool, Like the asset usage is a step up, like it's it is just a it's it's a catterfied deadminds, says stock Aide.

Sorry, like it looks nice and new and shiny compared to what Stockades looks like.

But it's the same vibe in it.

Obviously it's prison.

But I thought the boss fight's were really cool.

One of them's a couple of them are pretty hard, but the rest of you straightforward.

But I like the theme of it.

I think they did a good job of how to make a prison dungeon fun and all the different little chambers of it and all that crap.

I'm kind of kind of on board with, you know, keeping things kind of the way they were.

If they were going to make or revamp something, maybe they should have done something more in games stylish, you know what I mean, Like if you're going to redo deadminds about have a heroic version that's redone, you know, something a little different there instead of getting rid of the completely getting rid of the norm.

I mean, the fights are fun, you know, the mechanics are great, but I think they kind of should have just been left alone a little.

Yeah, I kind of a smell of dead binks, just that a nostalgic Yeah, exactly.

I want to go back there and I can't know.

Yeah, And that's that's that's what would have been fun with the whole.

You know, if you're going to redo something, let's let's give it a different aspect, you know, let's do use it for something else.

Speak of all broad I think it's great.

I agree with you.

The boss fights are really fun.

Good mechanics, not like too much, but enough to make them interesting.

Well, especially the last on is hard some of them, not everyone is hard.

Good piecing.

I really like it.

Hearing you say that sort of.

I was going to bring this up earlier with you know, some stuff that Vestige was saying regarding boss encounters, and like, I guess there's a difference between a boss being broken versus having your expectations of certain encounters recalibrated and just hearing a couple of things you said there about Deadmindes as well Lazarus.

The epoch really has been a test, and this whole Classic plus thing really has been a test for the classic player base on We've mentioned it very briefly before, how much people actually want new stuff, And it's like, when you say you want new stuff, what do you mean by that?

Which seems like such an odd thing to say, but one of the I don't share this trait with the classic community generally, where one of the biggest things that classic community revers or coverts is their knowledge of the game and their ability to use that knowledge to succeed at the game.

And they get off on I've played this game so much.

I know exactly when and where I'm supposed to do things.

I know how things are supposed to go, and I can perform well because of that knowledge.

And the second that core foundation of knowledge is shaken, generally the attitude shift a little bit into terms of you start to hear more negative comments come out of people like I don't know if I like this.

I'm not so sure about this.

I don't know.

You know, when you say things like I just want my old Deadlindes.

And you know, people say I should be able to do this boss at this level.

This is ridiculous when you have a sort of a yeah, sorry God for yeah, I know what.

You're trying to I don't your questions I missed.

I'm talking about the art assets, the way it looks, the updated fights, the new mechanics are super fun, and I don't mind that at all, especially smite amazing.

I don't mind them mixing up the abilities or the possiblays or the tuning or what I mean when I missed nostalgia of how it looks and like the So I I'm not saying that the new one's bad, It's just I would if you're going to spend time, I'd rather, you know, two or three more tall broads than messing with the art assets.

Of the fair enough fair enough, I guess, Or if you're.

Going to change one, maybe change like but like Chunk and Temple could probably do.

A redo, you know, fair enough, I guess.

My question still remains, though, like, not not so much lumping you in with this this sort of crowd Lazarus, but just sort of saying, you know, queerying to what degree people.

You know, we sit here and we say classic plus, Classic plus, give us Classic plus.

But I really think that if Blizzard does deliver, you know, even something along the lines of Epoch, where I don't think the changes are drastic by any stretch of the imagination.

I think the changes are moderate.

You know, the Blizzard player base, the Blizzard Classic player base that you know, the kind of players that won't venture on to a private server, could really say that they you know, they don't like this, And I think of I often think of the players ubiquitous, if you don't mind me dragging you into this rant a little bit.

And I'm still I'm speaking slowly and softly because I'm still really trying to piece together the right way to say this.

But I'm thinking of the players ubiquitous that we know, you know, from our travels in Countdown, friends that we've made along the way, that's still you know, don't want to play on Epoch.

And it's not a crime if you don't want to play on Epoch.

I totally get it.

We've talked about this before.

It's a private server.

It's weird, you know, I get it.

But we know a lot of people that we would have presumed would be like pigs and shit on this server, but they have absolutely stayed away, and a part of me wonders if it's truly because they say they want Classic Plus, but we've said this for a while now, it's kind of like, not really, they literally just want Classic and nothing to change, but maybe just one or two new raids, and if Blizzard introduces something like Epoch or even more than Epoch, I think the propensity for the community to actually weirdly backlash against that against that is high as we saw it with SOD, Like even people complained about SOD, Oh that's new, I don't like it.

It's almost like, do they really want new or do they just want a fucking relaunch and a new coat of pain on what they already know and love.

Yeah.

I think I had one of these rants at the start of Epoch on the same vein of like, if you're looking at this, even if you're not playing it, but if you're observing it and going this is dogshit, then I'm flabberg acid as to what you thought Classic Plus would look like.

But also on that point that there we've said it so many times over the last twelve months I've search for me in discord.

I've said this multiple times.

If people are upset by Epoch, my god, are you?

I don't know what Blizzard is making, but my god, you're going to be fucking upset with whatever they do.

Yeah, it's not to say that one is the right choice or not, because it's just all personal preference of what you want plus to be.

And that's the biggest fucking debate at the moment.

But I just I don't know if someone that if there's people out there that want one point one two, but they're going to just add a couple more raids after nacks, for example, I just don't know from those people, if they're saying that and they know that that is like five percent of the audience would play that in comparison to something that is more like this that would catch Blizzard ninety of the c plus interested people.

Like do they actually believe in their concept being the better, more popular choice or is it a self conceding, selfish choice?

Like do they know I want a niche valley that will get fuck all players, but it's what I want.

That's the point that I never really get out of them, Like, if you know what I mean.

You know, you can, you can have your preference, but do you know that it's not a popular preference because in my opinion anyway, again, I think that this would absolutely stomp one point one two with a new rate after nact like this would get a million players that would get fifty K, and half of them wouldn't get the sixty.

Yeah.

Absolutely, I mean, and we're already seeing that with Epoch like you can sort of sit there and wonder, well, what percentage of the player base, so you know that there might be a large percentage of the player base dropping out because of the bucks, like we talked about, maybe people are sort of seeing this server and going, you know what, this is clearly an unfinished server.

I'm not interested.

I'm out, But I I think that we're also and I said, any any server that makes a protracted journey to level sixty, whether whether it's Vanilla like or not, if it's relatively close to Vanilla like, a significant chunk of the player base will not make it to sixty.

It is just even for me, it is a long and ar like I said, I did ten days, played like something fucking ridiculous, and everyone can laugh and go Oh my god, how do you even how is it physically possible to spend fucking, you know, two hundred to two hundred and forty hours to get to fucking level sixty.

Trust me, it is.

You know, I do a lot of things along the way, professions and all that shit.

I just did it.

But I understand that most players, not most, but like a shitload of players be like, yeah, I'm getting to level thirty and stopping.

I just don't have time for this shit.

Because people don't have time for this shit anymore.

Yeah, I think this, The leveling in this is so easy compared to error, and it kind of makes me say, like if you can't, if one to sixty on Epoch was too hard for you, then I don't know, it sounds cunty, but like just an MMO just isn't for you and your lifestyle anymore, Like you need to give it up.

You need to go find a different kind of game to play, because if anything, I would say it's too quick, like I would have happily slapped an extra day played time sink to get to sixty on this because they succeeded in the old myth that I laughed at when people talk about Vanilla about the journey being like so important and so fun in this I hit sixty and there was a part of me that was fucking sad that I hit sixty because I didn't get to do the rest of the things.

But then I've said it in a few times on the show, it just motivates me to want to play another character already, So like that's why I'm leveling the Warrior and now old go to zones that I didn't get to do to see what was going on there.

But yeah, I just think it's still leaning on that.

Do you even want Classic Plus?

Do you even like the idea of Classic Plus?

Truly?

If you don't like this leveling, then like fuck me, just play Battlefield with me next month, where you just open the game, jump in a server, you play, and then you fucking close it and that's it.

Like there's no commitment.

That's that's the game that you need now.

If you if you if this is too much of a burden for you with how easy Epoch is, then I just don't know what warcraft you're even looking for at this point.

Yeah, And I've been really I've been really down on the one to sixty journey over the last couple of years.

I've said multiple times on the show.

People know, I'm like I said, never again.

I'm never doing Vanilla one to sixty again.

It is like pulling teeth.

I can't fucking do it.

It's it's you know, oh, it's all about the journey.

Fuck your journey.

I've done it ten times and I'm fucking over it.

Epoch is not the Vanilla Journey now.

I know it's relatively close, but people might be fair to ask, you know, Josh, why did you have tolerance for Epoch when it's still it still took you Slash ten days played.

What's the fucking difference?

The time investment is literally the same.

But it's how I felt along the way, and like everything about this leveling journey felt right, it felt like and that really resonates with me.

Me.

Sorry, that really resonates with me.

When you say you're almost a little bit disappointed that it was over, I felt the same way, because I'm now kind of like, oh, I really do get the sensation that that one to sixty journey kind of was the game.

And yeah, of course there's a lot of stuff to do at endgame, but like that was the game.

That leveling with the boys, that progressing your character and getting talent points along the way, seeing all the new shit from zone to zone that you only gets to be new in your eyes and your mind once.

I'm so glad I did it because I had so much fun along the way, But I am sad now I get to see a few things I missed via an olts.

That's great.

I'll go and do more of Burning Steps.

I'll go and do fucking fell Wood and shit that I skipped.

But like the journey was the experience.

And even though I don't feel that way about Vanilla anymore, I feel that way about Epoch, and hopefully I will feel that way about whatever Blizzard releases next because they need to.

And I didn't get this feeling through SOD at all.

That the one to sixty journey was so fucking oh my god, what an experience.

I'll never forget that.

I don't feel that way about about SOD.

SOD was fantastic, the gameplay was impeccable, but the leveling journey wasn't like me revering it, No, not at all.

No, but this one they need to replicate.

This feeling wouldn't you say.

Yeah, and I think it's kind of what the reason why it works so well is that, like I'm sitting here thinking about what are the differences, and it's like you've got the extra quest obviously, and there's new things to find, and that's kind of like the bells and the whistles that are and the lights that really make you observe the differences of the journey.

But I think a lot of it is like subconsciously the fact that you are leveling slightly quicker because there's less XP required per level.

If I'm not mistaken, there's the increased efficiency of there being more quests and stuff that you don't directly observe, but your routing is smooth.

You feel like you have options as well.

That's always nice to pick between zones and go and find things.

The additional recid XP when you log off for the night and come back.

All the things adding together made it so much smoother and therefore enjoyable.

But you're not there like yelling and screaming about how good those things are while you're in it.

It's only when you, like, you know, not actually feeling how smooth the car ride is while you're in it.

But you got to the end and you go, fuck, that was a nice drive, weather was good, roads were empty, car ran well, and you only kind of get to the end and realize all these things added up.

At least that's how it was for me.

It's and it's and I didn't know half of it at the start either, Like I didn't.

It took me like twenty levels to go.

Fuck, I'm getting five bars arrested every day when I log off, and then I go to work and then I come home, and it's like that shit adds up, you know what I mean?

When you're leveling, when you play every day and your level fifty four, five bars arrested feels so fucking nice.

I think I just want to shout out.

So sorry, someone was going to say something there, go for it.

Yeah, I was just I was just gonna say, like, it sounds like you guys need to activate to a Explorers contract or the Adventure contract.

Yeah yeah, god never never, yub I think we've achieved peak private server player in the Twitch chat.

So I don't normally do this, but we'll fucking shout it out when it needs shouting out.

So we got someone who reckons every boss in toll Barrad dies in fifteen seconds except the last posts.

Do you agree or disagree?

I haven't done toll Barrad yet, said you did it.

A couple of times.

No, that's batter and that's bad than hold yeah same place?

Oh yeah yeah yeah, no, no, yeah agree.

I wouldn't thought so.

Fifteen seconds is a very short time.

When I did it, it was like somewhere easy, but like the fucking I think it's the ogre chef.

Yeah, that was a pretty hectic fight.

I don't know.

Sounds like typical twitch chat.

Oh mate, where the peak Schizo podcast as this guy has just gone full private server player and it's gone, Mate, I killed things in fifteen seconds.

A fuck off, idiot, Hey, text, I will address your question mates.

Look, I sort of say the same thing to you I've said to everyone else.

And this sounds a bit sort of facetious.

But it's like, mate, you've got to just download and install the thing and try it out for yourself.

Everyone's asking about the ping, particularly the ausies.

Every ossie you wants to know, but the ping, the ping.

I'm not installing shit until you tell me about the ping, mate, Just fucking play the server and try it.

All I can say to you is like, it feels like two point fifty.

UBI sort of has said similar things it.

It's just a question on how you feel about that kind of ping.

So don't trust the number that you see when you log on and you go, oh, it's saying I've got one seventy eight MS.

The numbers are lies.

Do not believe them.

You have to just play it and go by feel, and then when you feel it, you'll be the best judge on whether or not you're comfortable with it.

Most of us are, but we're also the kind of people to happily play on NA servers with you know, Blizzards version of the game.

So if you're the kind of person that has played on an NA server before with a Wow Classic and you think that that is definitely a fringe too far, then don't play Epoch.

If you're like, nah, that's the game's fucking unplayable, then then don't play Epoch.

You'll fucking hate it.

But if you have played on NA servers before and you're totally fine with it, you're going to be totally fine with Epoch.

Yeah, I get I get two hundred ping, and I've said this a few times.

It's like, I just don't understand it's a GCD based game.

Like my warrior is swinging his mace every three point four seconds, bro, if he gives a fuck about two hundred ms, like you can't, oh but your abilities.

It's like, I don't know.

Victory Rush feels like it goes off pretty fucking quick with two hundred ms when you're swinging every three and a half seconds, Like, I just I don't understand the impact.

The only thing that pisses me off is the fucking slow mailbox.

That's it.

That's the only part of the game where the ping.

But I just say, I certainly highly agree people, if you're going to play the game, just don't turn it on.

Don't have an ad on that that shows your MS.

Yeah that was I was really skeptical at first myself, and I went in with no add ons that they're going to show my my MS or my fps.

And yeah, I'm sitting here at one hundred and ten and I don't even notice, like adult.

The Dream twenty one.

Wow, But yeah, just just play it.

This this this is not a server you play for peak performance or for a you know, as we've talked about.

You don't play this server for a bug free experience.

You don't play it for peak technical performance, you don't play it for any of that shit that all the cutting edge gamers need and want in their lives.

You play this server if you're a relatively laid back gamer who prioritizes fun and vibes over everything else, because that's what this server has in spades.

I kind of like to think of it as this is like an opt in alpha if you're someone that wants to figure out what you want in Classic Plus, because this is the most playable version of a Classic Plus right now.

And I don't know, like for me, it's kind of it's like my own beta test for my own ideas to come play this and go that's good, that's shit.

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I mean we talk about this fucking this mythical version of the game every week or the hypothetical.

So if you I've said before, fucking if you're just a C plus Copium hopeful, then you should try it to see if you actually like the concept, because this is the most playable concept available at the moment.

I'm still.

I'm still stoked, like I've always and I know I'm going to get it and I'm going to get it real hard.

But I've always played Gnomes.

I love Gnomes.

I don't know why it was because I'm short and fat in real life.

I have no idea, but I love Nobes.

Like legitimately, I've always played in and the new area starting a zone for Gnomes it felt a little clunky in the very beginning of it, but all in all, I was satisfied.

I was happy, Like, you get your own zone as a Gnome.

You're not sharing it with Dwarves, you know.

So there there's another good take if you happen to want to get out there and try it norm at all.

I agree with you that I hate Nums, but I want to try New Zone.

It's it's really cool.

I enjoyed, Like I like that, Yeah, very cool.

So yeah, I think it's like, you know, you be well, start to wind it up.

But I'll just say, like on on that sort of last point, you know, people would be how do I put this again?

It's kind of the the test on what kind of a gamer are you?

Where you know, we see it here and we talk about like the ms and we know a lot of Australian Wow players, who would you know, call us fake gamers and fucking idiots for daring to play a version of Wow with anything over you know, fifty ms.

You know, when when there's a choice there and they go, so, let me get this straight.

You could play on a local server with fucking twenty to fifty ms, or you could play on a fucking North American or European server with two hundred to two hundred and fifty ms, And you're choosing the non local SERVI well, you're not a fucking real gamer.

You're a fucking idiot.

Imagine, you know, thinking that the gaming industry is serving you anything but local ping is acceptable.

And I mean, I'm just still to this day I was just sort of mockingly laugh at that kind of take because I'm like, like, we're saying it's at the end of the day, if you choose performance over fun, I don't know what to tell you, and they're going to sit there and be like, but performance is fun.

It's like not when you're playing an MMO with no people, you fucking idiot.

I just epoch is really and I've mentioned this in past podcasts and I'll sort of hammer at Home even more in the future.

It's really changed my view to go in even more toxic direction towards OCEE players that really do refuse to leave their little island of small servers and join a larger community for an MMO.

And I'm going to get them very upset and get some hate mail for this, but like, I don't care.

They're fucking weird.

They're they're really weird blokes when you talk to them anyway, so I don't give a fuck.

All the weirdest cunts are the guys that are like, let's sit on our tiny oce server with twenty ping and not play with the rest of the world.

It's like, sorry, but you're fucking weirdos, Like it's not and not for that take like you are just weird blokes.

You are toxically weird cunts.

This server, the worldwide server, with everyone just getting stung a little bit with ping has been incredibly fun.

And no, like I said, I just can't hammer this home enough, Like nobody gives a fuck because we're playing an MMO with a shitload of people.

Nobody you don't see.

I haven't seen one person in general chat anywhere going fuck this server in its ping.

Yeah, I don't see it gribes of it.

I don't.

It's kind of just another situation of like you wish it could be the way of like Original Oracle or your Jamba, where yes, the server is big enough that it's awesome and you get the low ping, but that's just not a reality for OCE anymore.

Really, That's that's the glaring issue that like and they just refuse to accept that reality.

We're never going to have COVID Classic Copium hyper fucking Chamber of fourteen thousand Australians playing a version of the game anymore.

It's just the it's a it's a vice of the region in every fucking game, Like we literally can't play pubg because there's not enough players.

Like it's something that I'm envious of of Like NA and EU.

You can play any fucking game and there's still at least one full server of it of players.

Like you can go play Battlefield nineteen forty two and there'll be forty fucking codges in a service somewhere playing here.

You can't have that.

And even mainstream games like you play Dota fucking ell you can que for like half an hour sometimes before you find a match.

But yeah, it's just I don't understand there.

They're just unwilling to let go of that concept, whereas I already fucking made peace with it when we had to do the SOD server mergers, and I actually liked it.

I really liked playing an NA server, and it just it gives me like casino vibes, Like it's just twenty four hours, it never ends.

It's kind of cool.

They're going through it all again now with the mob stuff, and even though they're not forcing, they're not forcing the merge on ocee right now.

They've basically said we're gonna sit back and watch the feedback, and if the feedback becomes overwhelmingly positive for the merge, then guess what where.

Basically, I think they're saying they're effectively going to delete the oce server and force them over to naping, and like it's it's not going to shock people to hear that.

I'm okay with that, but like people are blowing up, going, you can't for how dare you force us to go over to naping?

Blah blah blah, Like I just I can't.

It's it's a horrible environment.

Here where they I mean, and you can't fault with it, because if they said it's for your own good, we're moving you, they all get butt hurt.

So they just open the gate to the paddock next next to yours and go, you can leave if you want, and then people like me leave, and then that makes more people leave, and more people leave, and the guys that stay yell at everyone else.

Left and blame everyone.

Yeah, you killed the server for leaving.

And you just go like, well, I don't have to play on an Aussie server so that you have couns to play with because you want four ping instead of one hundred and sixty, Like, it's not my fucking problem.

So and I like a busy server.

I would I would a thousand times choose a ten k n A server over a one k Aussie server.

Yeah.

I've always said this is what this might be really toxic to say a fuck it.

I'm going fully in on the toxic toxicity against the Oceanic community who were sort of against my my thoughts on this one.

But like, if you raise pin in your argument about your performance in game, guess what brother your ship at the game?

Yeah, that's its end.

The fucking story.

It's not the highest factor too, it's not the it's not the most important thing to output anyway.

Sorry, running a thousand things.

Yeah, but I'm talking about like the people who get to fifty and then say no, no, no, I need to get fifty.

Pin.

If I get to fifty, that drastically affects my performance in RAID or PDP.

Mate, you're bad.

At the game.

If you can't work around two hundred ping, you you are bad at the game.

No, Josh, it's my two fifties ping fault that I stood in the death of the kay for seven seconds about moving.

Okay, Yeah, it's it's the being's fault.

That quarter of a second would have made all the fucking difference.

Oh I didn't.

I didn't get to heal the tank in time.

Well, brother, do you do your precast?

Do you fucking wait till he's a ten percent to start your heal?

Anyway, So guys, on that lovely note, I'll basically wine this one up.

Anyone speak now forever.

Hold your silence, Marcus, anyone something you have to say to everyone while we're doing this.

No, I think you covered it with the OCE ping debarcle.

Yeah, so good.

I just have have a quick another quick FYI.

If anyone is like planning to play a rogue, yep, if you uh, if you try to pickpocket or distract a mob that hass lightning shield you will get to removed out of stealth.

There you got that.

That's a quession for me.

Very good pickpocket guys with lightning shields.

It makes sense well.

Of course, speaking of immersion, service does a pretty good job of litle things.

Keep your mercy on the boats.

The boats actually rock like with the waves, yeah, I thought was kind of cool.

And the Yeah, the level sixty racial trade quests are at least the one I did was pretty uh like the themes and the lore, it was pretty uh spot on and it definitely added to the ad and fiel JANKI.

All the rating was good.

Just all things like that that theyn served as well.

All right, guys, I wind up the podcast recording there, but I'm not going to get off the stream or the general voice channel.

So for all your podcast listeners at home, thank you so much for tuning in.

We'll see you next week.

As always, if you're a longtime listener to the show, you want to get involved with what we're doing.

Just whisper anyone slash who countdown, try and find an officer and just you know, say the password, which is I'm just saying to people, look, mate, just say something that shows to me that you listened to the show.

For a while.

I had a guy before who was like, you know, he fell a little bit short of the password, and I'm like, come on, make give me something, give me something, anything that shows to me that you listen to the show.

And he goes, you know what, balls of Steel is a great underrated guest and I go, fucking beautiful, you're in.

That's the password.

So more of that.

Everyone's doing a really good job with the guilds we are.

We're getting a lot of sixties rolling in now.

God, let me just do a quick live check.

We are now ADS three hundred and twenty one guild members.

A lot of those are roults, obviously, but we're going at what one, two, three, four, six, seven, A, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen level sixties and I think we have over fifty people over level forty.

That's a fucking little raid team coming together there.

I love it.

Yeah, it's coming along nicely and there I will.

I will get my shit in order in about a week's time for guild operations since there are actually enough committed players to maybe do some shit.

Yep, so you Biquitus, it was it was a it was a.

Wait and see situation.

But now that you know there is so many people.

We've seen enough kind of going ham.

Yeah, I'll sort some channels out and we'll do some sign ups and stuff to do stuff.

Yeah, and this is where, like, guys, I'm not saying this tongue in cheek like Ubiquitous really is this.

He is running the show, and I'm not saying that to like pass the work to him.

But I've said to you guys for years now, I'm not a guild leader.

I'm not that kind of guy.

I don't have it in me.

UB's doing a fantastic job, and he's going to spiff everything up and whip up discord channels and ship like that and sign up sheets and all that stuff.

So we will turn into you know, a real guild if we are a real guilt real guild now, but we'll turn into a real rating guild.

The biggest thing I've said to Ubi is my only request is the non guild leader is just to keep the vibes, like, we don't want to go full Arcos.

You never go full Arcos.

We're just just just keeping things fucking you know, good and fun and at the pub.

And I'll leave everything else up to him to sort out, you know.

Arcos is is you know, going to try and fucking make the guild go fucking cutting edge.

But we'll try.

We'll do our best not to have it go silly.

Your send your applications to him to join Speed Team A.

He's the only member of it at the moment.

Yeah, exactly, he might reject everybody.

He'll just be a one man team.

Exactly all application.

But we may we may have multiple raid teams.

We'll see.

Like we said, we've already got fifteen level sixties four weeks into the service.

So if if all the fifty people over level forty ding sixty in the next three to four weeks, like that's two raid teams.

Yeah, and we'll I mean, we're probably going to have enough people to have an NA team and an EU team, or it depends.

Maybe we'd rather do a mixed bag and it'll be like Morning Raiders and Night raiders from across the world all at the same time.

Like, I'm kind of liking the chaos of it, and yeah, it's going to happen.

I was thinking, well, keep going.

Yeah, we'll talk about this more later down the track.

But I was thinking, in an ideal world, you could have like and at one team doing the like quote unquote best combination time for EU and NA to raid, and then you could have a secondary team that maybe the Aussies could get in on where it's like sort of okay for all three regions and we can chop and change and do whatever.

Yeah, And I don't know, I can't imagine the content is going to be that hard, so like we should just be able to slap a group together and do stuff.

But we'll see.

I'm sure there's enough of you guys playing all around the fucking clock that from what I see checking the discord every day, we should be able to.

We'll just forego region identities and just put times and be like, are you the like just have three raid teams at every eight hour intervals?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, it'll just be like raid for twenty four hours.

Yeah, but the having one to a Friday night EU na slash Saturday Morning o CE Raid would be that'll be the fun one.

That'll be the pub run.

Yeah yeah, I think that might end up being the most popular.

I'm unsure of other people's Friday night like availability consistently, but Friday nights have always been the easiest, Like just fucking chuck us in there and RAID kind of vibe anyway.

So now we'll try and get our shit organized and there might be might try and make an epoch roll or something for the discord so I can ping everyone easier and stuff like that.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

All right, guys, I'll end the podcast recording there.

Thank you so much for tuning in everyone, And that's the episode for today.

Everyone, Thank you so much for listening to all of that.

That all comes to you courtesy of the following amazing patrons.

This show would not be on the air if it weren't for these people.

I would not be doing this for free.

I can guarantee you these wonderful people slip some change into my open guitar case every month, and I love them for it.

You guys need to thank them for keeping this thing going.

Flosybe Vucka Croxford odd k, Honeybee, Wintersgate, Zorn, Grimoire Plays All the Mighty Doloman, Jaron h Rengo, gra vac Simile.

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The twenty and ten dollar patron per month, then the five dollar and two dollars and one dollar patrons, thank you so much.

You're all the best.

I love you just as much, but obviously I love the guys paying a little bit more, a little bit more than that, But thank you.

Guys.

Look, you've all just blown away my expectations for this guild, every single one of you involved in what's going on with countdown on Project Epoch again.

We're now a month into this thing and the guild is a delight.

Everyone is so polite, fun, interesting, intelligent and just like decent at the game.

And just you know, I've started running sixty dungeons with people and everyone's just chill and yeah there's wipes, but there's laughs and there's a bit of answer and giving each other some fun shit.

But like it's all really fun, positive vibes.

At the end of the day, guys, this is the most fun I have ever had playing World of Warcraft.

Full stop, and it's because of the you know, the game is great, but the social side of things has never been better for me.

This is the culmination of year's worth of investment in the Countdownd of Classic community, and you guys are paying it back to me, you know, a thousandfold through your you know, just kindness and being amazing people.

So I really I just want to say really heartfelt thank you to all of you who have given Epoker go and who have engaged with me socially.

You know, ninety nine point nine percent of you have been ten out of ten.

You know, you guys are the best I've traveled the world.

I've met some of you in person.

You've all been amazing when I meet up with you.

With you in person and you're the same online.

People just grabbing me and saying, hey, Josh, how are you nice to meet you?

Longtime listener.

You know, you guys never let me down.

You're all awesome people.

So if I keep talking, I'm gonna get emotional.

So I'll stop here.

But one day I'll say maybe even even an even bigger thank you.

But guys, get on it.

If you haven't got on it yet, Epoch is just fucking great.

You know, it's it's it's the countdown thing that is making it quite frankly, I can't stress that enough.

You know, the server's great, that the content is ten out of ten, but you know, it's the social side of things that's willing it all together.

So hopefully we'll see you in game and i'll talk to you in the next episode.