[SPEAKER_05]: It's episode 12, 70, and it's the relevant podcast here in Orlando, I'm your host Cameron Strang.

[SPEAKER_05]: Joining me from Loverland, Virginia, it's Jessica.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_05]: From Nashville, our managing editor downtown, Emily Brown.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hail.

[SPEAKER_05]: Both Derek and Marty.

[SPEAKER_05]: are traveling today because they are very busy artists.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's devil wards week so they had a showcase and all these things label stuff so they couldn't make it today.

[SPEAKER_05]: They decided to directly rebel against force, Frank's mandate to boycott the devil wards this week.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they're standing strong for what they could, which is keeping its time and the anti-boycott, their boycott in the boycott.

[SPEAKER_06]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you're saying the fool for us, we love for us.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just saying it's been a whole thing in the little Christian bubble this week.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Jelly roll got involved.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if y'all saw that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's escalating quickly.

[SPEAKER_04]: The jelly rolls have to be the peacekeeper.

[SPEAKER_04]: Then we're making your bubble.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Live it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let live.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, Jess.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want little awards for loving Jesus, get your loving Jesus awards.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you don't want loving Jesus awards, that's fine too.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody's right.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody's wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: We all love the Lord.

[SPEAKER_05]: Calm down.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And some people are right.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's very low stakes and some people there don't love the Lord.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're just in it for the money, which we also learned this week There's a lot of money involved in the Christian music industry.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's a whole tangled web.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't I Yeah, I feel like it's people.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's call Chandler more and see what he thinks about the devil words real quick hold on [SPEAKER_06]: just speaking of like a lot of money involved in media operations.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I can I just say that this is a random tangent here, but like the trend on YouTube of like people who are very successful, blowing fruits of their success for the enjoyment of their viewers is one of my favorite things.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I know a lot of people probably have thoughts on it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wait, are you talking about like the Mr.

B stunts where you spend $10 million on a video?

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, but I'm particularly talking about it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Do you guys know the channel Whistland Diesel?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a car.

[SPEAKER_06]: What?

[SPEAKER_06]: And he bothers us.

[SPEAKER_06]: That feels like something in your algorithm, not him.

[SPEAKER_06]: He, he, he, he buys very expensive cars and destroys them in very creative ways, you know, and some of it's like durability test to see what a car can withstand, you know, but it'll be like a G wagon or something, you know, [SPEAKER_06]: I'm telling you just like, oh, it's great content.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you want to see a D.

Why I can drop through a house, you can see it on the channel.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, but he, he bought one of the 80,000 to all her robots from China.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think like speed and a couple of streamers have them.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm trying to kick him over.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: yeah well he bought one and he trained it to hate humans and just to see what would happen if it machetes and swords and stuff it broke into his house and like i'm i'm telling you it he dressed it up as a maid and was like very mean to it trying to pick up things you know this is the car channel you're talking about the car yeah okay um well but but it's just he now has just like a lot of these [SPEAKER_06]: youtubers more money than he knows what to do.

[SPEAKER_06]: So wouldn't it be funny to train a robot to hate humans and see who would win in like a battle between humans and robots?

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's at times legitimately scary at time hilarious, you know?

[SPEAKER_06]: from all of us goofballs who watch funny videos and all those little fractions of a penny that rack up every minute we're all there and they're willing to reinvest it into ridiculous things like training at 80 thousand dollar Chinese robot to attack his home with a machete to see if he would survive.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just love the era of media where in that's a good use of of media [SPEAKER_05]: I do like that you just give us a new tagline for this episode of the podcast at Times, Legitimately Scary, at Times hilarious.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

[SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of which, we have a great show coming up.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is a non-usual show.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now that we're in video, we're playing with the format a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we announced a couple of weeks ago, we're not going to have any guests anymore.

[SPEAKER_05]: We've already gone back on that on today's show.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it's not like we used to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're having a guest join us live on the show today in about 19 minutes.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's Pastor Chris Durso, some of you may know him.

[SPEAKER_05]: He pastors in New York.

[SPEAKER_05]: He does a lot of speaking at conferences and stuff around the country.

[SPEAKER_05]: Kind of one of those guys that's escalating in his renown right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's a friend of the show.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've been a friend for several years and he's going to be joining us.

[SPEAKER_05]: He just launched a new church in New York.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll talk a little bit about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But he has some thoughts about the big sea church, what's going on.

[SPEAKER_05]: He wants to get off his chest.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I said, well, join us on the wall.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just spoke at my church's conference last month.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're excited to see him again.

[SPEAKER_06]: Can I get his thoughts on training a robot and sword fighting him for content purposes?

[SPEAKER_05]: He did that for a big like sermon illustration on Sunday.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's up the Mike Todd school of the atrics.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's up there for a certain illustration is nothing to those guys.

[SPEAKER_06]: They build on a very elaborate set.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, so that's coming up.

[SPEAKER_05]: Also, we heard from you.

[SPEAKER_05]: You guys like the slices.

[SPEAKER_05]: You like the whatever, but you're going, I just meant 45 minutes of my week listening to absolutely nothing.

[SPEAKER_05]: So where's relevant buzz?

[SPEAKER_05]: Could we get a little of that action sprinkle back in?

[SPEAKER_05]: And so guess what?

[SPEAKER_05]: We hear you.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're nothing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not teachable.

[SPEAKER_05]: We were here to serve you.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, today we have a little relevant buzz, a little slices, and a lot of Chris Durso.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

[SPEAKER_05]: Stay tuned or after the break.

[SPEAKER_05]: It'll be relevant buzz.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay Emily, tell us what's happening at the intersection of faith and culture this week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you kind of alluded to it earlier, but um, there is some big news happening in the Christian music world this month.

[SPEAKER_05]: So last Monday, Jesus, people got awards, living, given to themselves, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this is actually a double wards recap.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Highlight real red carpet.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_05]: Where are you?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a red?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like a teal carpet?

[SPEAKER_01]: It might be a red carpet.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we're going to revisit that those royalties that churches are paying out.

[SPEAKER_05]: 80, 80, 83 year olds on TV in are very interested in who Chandler Moore's wearing on the Teal carpet at the double words.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, go ahead Emily.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well speaking of Chandler Moore, he and Naomi Rame, who are two of the founding members of Maverick City Music announced that they were leaving the group last Monday.

[SPEAKER_01]: They both started with a group in 2018 when it was founded.

[SPEAKER_01]: So fans were pretty shocked when they announced within an hour of each other on social media that they would be leaving the group.

[SPEAKER_01]: They both really made statements.

[SPEAKER_01]: Naomi statement was very grateful for her time in the group, but mentioned that she was ready to step into a new chapter of her career, which she's done some solo music, so I think she's going to have a really fun future where excited to see what she does.

[SPEAKER_01]: Chandler statement was similar, also talked about a new chapter he was stepping in, but he also wrote in his statement that there may be some press and conversation around certain business matters that his legal team was handling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, that caught our attention because we hadn't had no clue what that could mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did not take long to figure out that answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Earlier this month, on October 1, Chandler filed a lawsuit against his former manager, Norman Giompy, accusing him of fraud, forgery, and misappropriating millions and royalties.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a Norman Saint might not sound familiar to a lot of people, but if you'll remember earlier this year, there was some controversy around the CEO of Maverick City music for going on the Isaac Rishow, making quite a few negative comments about the state of gospel music and the Christian music industry.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was Norman.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's already had to have more.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you said he's singing his manager, his manager, Norman, then became the CEO of Maverick's music.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, Norma can see you in 2023, after working as Chandler's manager from 2020 to 2023.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, in this lawsuit, Chandler alleges that Norman exploited his fiduciary relationship with him and used ultra ego entities to enrich himself at Chandler's expense.

[SPEAKER_01]: The suit claims Norman forged Chandler's signature on contracts, diverted funds and transferred ownership of more songs without consent.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Chandler claims the alleged misconduct for deprived him of millions of dollars in royalties and other bunnies.

[SPEAKER_06]: you know, as as Emily stated, there's a lot of legal nuances to this, and I think it's important to kind of cover, you know, some of the details, even though, you know, some of the legal nuances are mundane, there was something in there, I don't mean a big line of the situation, but I wish they would dig in a lot of the, what was the phrase, no, it was alter ego personalities, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'll check out entities.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And to tell you, it's because basically he, he, he Norman, the person, the accusation.

[SPEAKER_05]: We are not libeling.

[SPEAKER_05]: Norman, the person, the accusation, the Chandler's making is he set up other entities that were owned or controlled by Norman.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so he was transferring money.

[SPEAKER_05]: That thing to do with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought he had created characters in this elaborate [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is a British.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's a saint.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's saying because like the paper chair won't say, uh, as is manager, he sold Chandler's XYZ to himself.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, he made himself a known or a partial owner of this other entity and then sold Chandler's stakes to that entity.

[SPEAKER_06]: It would have been more it would have been [SPEAKER_06]: you know, more legally salacious as he sold to like J.B.

[SPEAKER_06]: Butterswar.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's like, well, who is this, you know?

[SPEAKER_06]: I misread.

[SPEAKER_06]: I misread legal document.

[SPEAKER_05]: Emily, let me ask you.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you just told us on the info.

[SPEAKER_05]: We were very careful to be legal.

[SPEAKER_05]: And nobody can sue us over what you just said.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Did Maverick City music respond to it?

[SPEAKER_05]: I know the answer to this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, one of the, one of the co-founders Johnathan J.

He responded to it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was been on this podcast, by the way.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've been on this podcast with House fires.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, because he, he started in America City.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was with House fires.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's over tribal records.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's very, he works with Norman, obviously a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: He really is a statement saying that Chandler's claims are categorically false and characterized a lawsuit as a quote calculated attempt to strong arm away out of [SPEAKER_01]: so that's the official stance.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'll say this.

[SPEAKER_05]: Chandler was very specific in his claims of what happened and the response from the label was very not on.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, at the end of the day, the courts will decide who's selling truth and until then, it's a bunch of TBD.

[SPEAKER_05]: But that was an [SPEAKER_05]: That lawsuit was filed on a Wednesday, and on Monday, he announced he and Naomi were leaving the groups who knows if this is the end of Maverick City music, but all original members are now officially gone.

[SPEAKER_05]: If they continue, it's gonna be like one of those funk bands that has no original members, but still uses the name.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna be karaoke, Maverick.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, who do you want to talk about this?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the ship of thesis, where it's like, at what point is this just a new group?

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't just like a brand at that point.

[SPEAKER_01]: If they were smart, this would just be the end of Maverick City music, and they'll tribal will continue on with new bands, like what voice worship and well, Jonathan Jonathan, Jay statement, makes it seem like they are continuing the brand map, like they seem like a city, and it's like, I don't, I don't think other people see it like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think people see it as Chandler and Naomi, and at one point Brandon Lake and don't do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: We posted this statement on Instagram and thousands of you joined a conversation to share your thoughts.

[SPEAKER_05]: And one person said, listen, we knew the end was nye because I bought tickets to see them on tour in 2023.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it was a whole bunch of fill in people and nail me.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he said, I bought tickets to see Maverick City and I ended up seeing Teamu City.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like that nailed exactly how it was.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was more like Maverick Township.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you show it, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, who knows, if they'll continue on T-Moo City, you can see it, but it's sitting near you.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see what's going on with that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it's kind of crazy.

[SPEAKER_05]: All this happened literally the day before the celebration of the double words happened, didn't they?

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a music industry.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I gave the industry a little something to talk about this week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just a little something.

[SPEAKER_01]: One other thing before we move on to Sice's project Pat, the legendary rapper for Memphis, whose brother juicy J started 36 Mafia recently led thousands of people in prayer of repentance in downtown Memphis of the video.

[SPEAKER_01]: Prentice?

[SPEAKER_01]: Pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre [SPEAKER_05]: Project Pat has been in the three six Mafia world and is not to perform for being a believer even though we know now He grew up in the church play drums in the church even when he was doing stuff with three six Mafia He was still going on Sundays and stuff and so now it's like he's gotten really serious about his faith We've seen project packs show up on Jackie Hill Perry's new album and he did a little stuff with no big deal a few months ago So it seems like he's really coming back into a You know, emphasizing his faith.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yours here's a clip [SPEAKER_02]: Forgive me in my sins, I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross and went to heaven my place, and I received it as my Lord of State, now Lord, give me the grace.

[SPEAKER_02]: They straight the one at the wall and open your perfect wheel and open my understanding and all the power to them to who you truly are and who you truly are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really are and who you really really are and who you really really are and who you really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really [SPEAKER_02]: and follow the grace of my inches.

[SPEAKER_02]: To the interest of your things, to put your kingdom burst in my life.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Jesus name.

[SPEAKER_02]: Amen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Amen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, can pray to your prayer, raise your hand.

[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: When I say, when I say, when I say, when I say, [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, we had more planned, but the clock is ticking and Chris Derso is coming up.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we want to get going, make sure to check out relevant mags.com for more of those stories.

[SPEAKER_05]: And our Instagram and all the other socials were post and stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know what's been going on with you guys, but thank you for engaging.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I think last month on Instagram, we reached 33.2 million people in the last 30 days.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, I don't know what y'all are doing, but thanks for engaging the content.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're telling a lot of those stories.

[SPEAKER_06]: Kate doing what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we are one more month of this rate away from buying of a $80,000 robot and showing it for fun on a live stream.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, one more.

[SPEAKER_05]: So one more month.

[SPEAKER_05]: Get that $800 check from Instagram.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[SPEAKER_05]: Stay tuned.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right after this break, it'll be a version of slice itself.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Jesse, it's time for [SPEAKER_06]: What do you have?

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, there's been different points in my adult life where I've dabbled in, I say it's not like I'm doing like iron men, but like doing like races, you know, like little runs for charity.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're fun, you know, he get out there, especially around a special round like Halloween time falls very popular time for these to the temperature is just right to see a lot of costumes, you know, but anyway, I'm always interested when when one of these race organized for its a little fun twist, well now Taco Bell is getting fall to get to the Taco Bell ultra marathon.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it will raise money for an organization that helps disabled gutter.

[SPEAKER_06]: So good costs.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just sounds painful, dude.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's talking what it is for the disabled.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's 31 miles, which is very, very gosh.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's a lot of miles.

[SPEAKER_06]: of regular marathons like twenty six okay so this is longer than the standard marathon um...

and but arguably this is expert even though it's only five miles longer than regular marathons exponentially more difficult because along the way participants must eat at nine talk about restaurants [SPEAKER_06]: And there are numerous rules to make sure that, you know, the specifications are adhered to, you must, you know, menu item, at least nine of the ten taco bell stops.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, that's that's that's a good order.

[SPEAKER_05]: The little, do they still have the little of the sentiment of brown sugar.

[SPEAKER_05]: Little by now.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, it has some, well.

[SPEAKER_06]: I evidently that is he one of them and keep going you know well, but by the four stop you must have consumed at least one chalupa or one crunch wrapped supreme by the eighth stop you've also had at least one read us cream or nacho balkrande so like there are there are specifications you have to keep receipts okay drinks don't count as food [SPEAKER_06]: Are they trying to kill participants?

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, they have all these rules, you know, like maps and things like this, but I noticed on the amount of porta parties along the route.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, here's the thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I noticed one catastrophic oversight because of all these rules and stops, like here's a Taco Bell or show you an order by this spot.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right in the middle is at a park.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like this is the designated bathroom break.

[SPEAKER_06]: Just one.

[SPEAKER_06]: It seems to be only one.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's only like four bathrooms at a city park.

[SPEAKER_06]: And oh, they also, there is no, these are prohibited, okay, this is real, this is prohibited by the rules, this is like performance enhancing drugs of this race.

[SPEAKER_06]: Heptop is a small access server, have said AC and my land to a fine name are not allowed, and so it does seem like the streets of Denver could be incredibly dangerous and messy place when this is happening.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I appreciate you going to sign up.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is the question everybody wants to know are you going to sign up?

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's unfortunate I can't be in Denver this Saturday.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so otherwise, and there's no way I can complete a 31-haul race.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't even know if I can do the Taco Bell portion to be quite honest with you.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have, I have a little bit of experience with this ever, ever so slight.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I'm listening to you and I'm remembering.

[SPEAKER_05]: So in 2019, I did a race called Hood to Coast.

[SPEAKER_05]: Portland, and you run from Mount Hood all the way to the coast over the course of 24 hours.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have a team of three runners in Van and it's a whole thing and I remember and I'm not a runner, but we trained for it and it was a big to do and we're raising money and stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I remember that these are like real, like global athletes and marathoners and stuff, and me just showing up like a slow, you know, just trying to keep up.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the real people, the real people, like when it wasn't your shift, you're like trying to recuperate in the van or whatever, or you drive ahead, and there was one point where we stopped for dinner, they wanted to go to a Mexican restaurant, like the runners wanted to go to Mexican restaurant, and they wanted the chips and the carbs and the whatever, well, I'm thinking we're just hanging out at a Mexican restaurant, you know, getting real, but like, you know, real Mexican food, I never felt worse after that.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, like, where I do remember they were kind of looking at me like I think you shouldn't be eating all the cheese dude, you know, but like I thought we were just I thought Mexican food was like the secret of like marathon running or something I didn't know huge mistake.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm listening to you talk about this talk about things just thinking flashbacks sweaty flashbacks of that thing happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just thinking like the same person who could would train for a marathon is not the same person eating at Taco Bell nine times in one day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to say anyone here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand who's signing up for this marathon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Other than Jesse.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, and I get to be honest with you, the type of person that's eating Taco Bell nine down to one day is probably in prison right now because they're a psychopath and do not belong in the public.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so I don't know anyone's digestion system [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this is from like a YouTuber who, like a Mr.

Beast type video who's like I doing a crazy social experiment because I just cannot imagine the good people of Taco Bell thinking this is what's going to get people to eat on restaurants one no one's ever combined the good people of Taco Bell guys [SPEAKER_06]: I, they're just people there and I don't know how to, I don't know what their engines are.

[SPEAKER_06]: I like their food, but good people is, is questionable.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_05]: You got me, but I just, yeah, I thought of you last night, I was one of these two, thirty in the morning, TikTok shop, scrolling, came across shop that had a lot of funny hats left.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And one, one said it was like this is all a brighter on it and it said, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: People who get a tummy ache from eating Taco Bell are weak and their bloodlines are weak.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what the front of the show said.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was just, it was a small, and then time got smaller and smaller and it went like, but I thought of you just saying, I was bought it for you.

[SPEAKER_04]: I talked about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I was delicious.

[SPEAKER_06]: But did you go right to the miles?

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't, yeah, I didn't run and I did not eat it eight more times that day.

[SPEAKER_06]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I was in cross country in high school, I will say we there was we'd had long runs and we would run from the high school to the local donut shop grabs and donuts and then run back a little more sense with it's like quick sugar fuel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Then it's like Michael Scott carbo loading at the beginning of the race with the Fettuccine Alfredo.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what this feels like.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I love that we spent just as much time on the end of Maverick City music as we have the Taco Bell marathons.

[SPEAKER_05]: Equally, it's important.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of nuances.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of nuances.

[SPEAKER_06]: A lot of lawsuits.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was a legal right-wing happening.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Both.

[SPEAKER_06]: But one, one, a present legal situation, the other, a pending.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I can see this gone always Supreme Court, some of the aftermath of this thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Emily, I know we are scheduled right now for Christopopop.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's going to pop on any second.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're keeping eye out for it.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I know that there's one more slice that we want to bring about ORU specific.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know if Jesse has seen this yet.

[SPEAKER_05]: Have you?

[SPEAKER_05]: We posted down.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, let's let's do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is one for ORU alums.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really just anyone maybe who needs some dating advice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know I've limited about that many times on this show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I won't go into that ramp, but the group of freshmen at or of Roberts University were videoed or a video was uploaded of them marching around a girl's dorm seven times to get the girls to fall for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the way to describe that you are not prepared for what you're [SPEAKER_07]: This is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real, this is not [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so what are the results of this, uh, well, they all got a $50 fine probably because, you know, just cause you saw security freaking out at the end.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were like, trying to shut this down.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I'm going, oh, they're getting right up.

[SPEAKER_05]: I saw people running away from the security.

[SPEAKER_05]: Did you see that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, um, yeah, because if they get you, it's 50 bucks.

[SPEAKER_06]: Running from security is like an ORU intermoral sport.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it had, you know, it just part of the student life there.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we need it.

[SPEAKER_05]: We need to follow-up Emily.

[SPEAKER_05]: We found this online and kind of viral.

[SPEAKER_05]: We need to know.

[SPEAKER_05]: Did it work?

[SPEAKER_05]: Did any of the girls in?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I was going to say this fall.

[SPEAKER_01]: This could be this could be dating advice.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if this continued to just actually backfire on them in there and now $50 in debt, maybe don't do this, but.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I got a shot.

[SPEAKER_05]: It made me laugh so much because clearly there's a lot of girls in the dorm.

[SPEAKER_05]: So clearly this is like midnight.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's very dark.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's not a ton of people out.

[SPEAKER_05]: A crowd did gather of what the heck are these idiots doing as they were marching around the girls dorm seven times chanting and skipping.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, okay, this is clearly midnight shenanigans.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is one wing, you know, like, people like, go into this and annual tradition, or you know, this is one stupid wing of goofballs being hilarious at midnight.

[SPEAKER_05]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is absolutely what happened when I was there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Me as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I know.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's been years and something's never changed.

[SPEAKER_04]: How are you as, how are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: So if y'all were in college at the, like, at this time, would y'all have been joining in on the marching?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or would you been videoing?

[SPEAKER_01]: What would you have been doing?

[SPEAKER_05]: It wouldn't have been my wing.

[SPEAKER_05]: My wing wouldn't have been the funny goofballs who did it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would have, I would have seen it happening and thought, ah, good on you guys.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's hilarious.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I think my wing would have somehow sought to sabotage the Mars.

[SPEAKER_05]: Your wing would have bullied these guys.

[SPEAKER_05]: Your wing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Throw tomatoes at them.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Jessie's wing was the athletic dorm wing.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they're all about intramurals and super.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're better than you.

[SPEAKER_06]: Still did funny things.

[SPEAKER_06]: And [SPEAKER_06]: But ours were very antagonistic.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, you were like, you're trying to actually hard prank other floors exactly this was we're just doing a funny thing because we're funny goofballs in the quad, you know, but I say I'm learning more about I'm learning more about Jesse.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you develop that pranks or personality before you entered this before you went to Oreo or did that on before.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, before some use form with it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, do you want to say publicly who your high school prank partner was?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he does not.

[SPEAKER_05]: We will just say it's a naturally known person now and it's not a person you expect Jesse would have grown up with.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's look.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's right now.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I said, a lot of people do a lot of dumb things when they're young and it just happens, you know, but yes, I did I can affirm that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Someone that people would not expect and we'll just leave it at that.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that'll do it for slices.

[SPEAKER_05]: Make sure to go check out relevant magazine.com or for more stay tuned right after this break.

[SPEAKER_05]: Chris Durso joins us.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, we're trying something new.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're doing a video podcast now.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in our video era, we decided to have no guests.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're not doing the traditional like 10 minute interview that we've done for 20 years.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we thought, why don't we have guests join us?

[SPEAKER_05]: So we're trying it for the first time.

[SPEAKER_05]: Chris Derso is an author, he's pastor from New York City.

[SPEAKER_05]: You might know him from the misfit days.

[SPEAKER_05]: You might have seen him at conferences.

[SPEAKER_05]: Or online, he does a lot of platitudes from his car.

[SPEAKER_05]: he recently launched a new church in New York City called Good Company Church.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so we want to hear more about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And also he texted me that he has some thoughts about what's going on in the church day that we need to talk about.

[SPEAKER_05]: So welcome to this show Chris Derso.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for having me on, guys.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for joining us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be fun.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you just launched a church.

[SPEAKER_05]: Why did you launch a new church?

[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us about yes six weeks ago.

[SPEAKER_03]: We launched a good company church in downtown Manhattan.

[SPEAKER_03]: I started off as a model study two years ago and then as we just kept progressing with the Bible study doors kept opening.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just seemed like it was that it was the right next step.

[SPEAKER_03]: When we started it, we didn't have a clue because it was like we were invited to start this Bible study.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we were just opening it up for people and then it just kept growing and I felt like it was the right next move to do which I'm super excited about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can I tell Jesse, I want to tell the listeners how Chris and I met over the years, cross paths never had met, but after his friend and my friend, Carl Lens, had a scandal in New York in late 2019, relevant posted that news.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Pastor Chris Durso got in those comments and was calling us out for spread rumors and being, wow, evil, evil doers and all of a sudden, I'm like, Chris Durso, I'm pretty sure you wait.

[SPEAKER_06]: So you play all these years to publicly address this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, glad.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which every time we're together by the way, he brings it up.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's the first time we really interacted.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then like three years later, I'm at church.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they announced in our conference like the speakers and conference.

[SPEAKER_05]: Chris Durso was coming and I texted him, I was like, [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you're going to be my church this week.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, we should meet.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we met, and we hashed out my hurt, his hurt, over that Carl Lynch era, social media interaction.

[SPEAKER_05]: So pulling it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: And now you're launching a church replacing his.

[SPEAKER_03]: So good, that's hysterical.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we're just going to brush over that and keep moving.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you got your spin on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's OK.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, well, Chris, now that we have you here, everyone like to do that, a big expose about this new church is going up today.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we wanted to give you the heads up about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a 10-year strategy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Chris push Carlens out of New York City.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he can start his own search in New York City.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I'm not even going to laugh at that because somebody's going to take the sound bite and then Chris from it.

[SPEAKER_05]: literally seven minutes ago, Carl, like, face time to me, and I had to hang up on him and he he's like, you're hurting my feelings.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I'm recording.

[SPEAKER_05]: Dersu's going on.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, what all the press, where is the church in New York?

[SPEAKER_06]: What, who are you, is New York home?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, or what brought you?

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, I'm born in the raised New York.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which is a circle because people will come up to me at church, but like, hey, so you're from here, or [SPEAKER_03]: Where'd you move from?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I'm born and raised in Queens.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the church started off at an air salon.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a Bible study, so the Bible study.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we moved to a Catholic church.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then now we're at TBN Studios, which is a cross-stratory from Union Square Park.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we have like a long-term lease situation there.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have a vacant space.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so which is a huge blessing for New York, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's always about space.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're able to be there for now for the foreseeable future.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome because I remember when some other churches in the cities were starting up.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's like every week they're moving around the different venues because you know how I mean speaking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, speaking of Carl like where when Hillsong was meeting at Irving Plaza, I don't know if it's ever been to Irving.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so we're literally 20 feet away from that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're along the corner.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's where the studio is, which is wild, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because union square is like a stone's throw away, which is where all our protests would happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then Washington Square Park is two blocks away, which is where all the other protests or big gatherings of New York would happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we're surrounded by NYU.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the location is ideal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I remember when you were starting the Bible study and you guys were meeting at the Harris lawn and I wondered if it was like LeBron's barber shop show, were you guys were in the chairs, you were sharing, and people were getting cuts during service.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is that happening?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, that would have been sick.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we kind of just like stood in the middle and had like everyone just sit as close to us as possible.

[SPEAKER_03]: We had this good problem running out of space.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what I loved about it and what I still love about what we're doing [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, like even though it's only like weeks six, every week I keep stripping something back.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just refuse to go into this, trying to be this polished machine, I don't think it works anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we've come to an end of an era where people just want more than anything is authenticity.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I even know that word has now become so reused, but at the core of what it is, that's exactly what people are looking for.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just let me worship Jesus and tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting to say that where do you think the tipping point on that was where people are like, all right, we, you know, we kind of we're doing a certain way for certain time where it's maybe a more authentic or maybe I don't even say like minimalist approach where where what do you think was the impetus for.

[SPEAKER_06]: that desire to kind of re-approach the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know for me COVID played a big part in that, you know, watching people just respond to everything that was happening all the racial tension, not being able to gather, there were all these prophetic words, you know, God's coming back Easter and there were all these things that were just causing people to go, just to be put a positive real quick.

[SPEAKER_03]: And can you just help me out because that's all I really need, you know, that even from like a cultural standpoint watching what happened within worship music, I don't know if you remember that time before that everyone was like worship songs need to be a minute and 30 seconds, you know, longer than that people won't engage, which is hysterical and dumb at the same time, and then people like Maverick City or upper room come out with 19 minute tracks and everyone's singing it and then all these passes like, you know what, [SPEAKER_03]: One minute songs are out the windows.

[SPEAKER_03]: 19 minutes and we're all going to wear muted colors and stand in a circle and you just realize that no one really knew what they were doing, they were just trying to try to just attach themselves to something that could work and I think that when we're watching what was going on in church people were going to podcast or [SPEAKER_03]: going to these other platforms of people that were just speaking honestly, but are you agreed with them or not?

[SPEAKER_03]: That's maybe here or there.

[SPEAKER_03]: They were just looking for the honest dialogue.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think all of that whole season as difficult as it was, it really helped us get there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Have you changed like in this launch?

[SPEAKER_05]: And this, you're talking about there's a shift of what people want from church.

[SPEAKER_05]: Have you changed how you speak?

[SPEAKER_05]: How you deliver how you pastor?

[SPEAKER_05]: How you teach?

[SPEAKER_05]: Or, of course, Derso with different programming around them.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it is definitely a newer version of me.

[SPEAKER_03]: So even when I'm preaching, I want to take moral poise approach.

[SPEAKER_03]: The passion is still there, but what I'm addressing, what I'm passionate about is definitely shifted.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think again, what the last few years of taught us is that people are aware of church.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like before 2020 I think all churches were approaching it like if people didn't go to church it's because they were lost and did not have a clue with Jesus what and now we understand that people don't do know who Jesus is and they're trying to figure out what kind of church you are and in fact they're watching us online right we've heard this before they're watching us online before they ever enter the doors so for me my approaches I'm talking to people [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not talking to them like they're ignorant, I'm not talking to them like they're children.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about the text and what the Bible actually says and we don't have to walk on eggshells for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I do like taking more of a poised approach when I am preaching, especially in my introduction, like as I work our way in, just so that I could, I could settle what the foundation is, like this is what we're going to focus.

[SPEAKER_03]: even some of the things that we would have done before, like you mentioned, misfit, which was so long ago for me, but you know, there were a lot of, like, all these elements that we were going for, and which now, it's just like, man, give me worship, and give me work.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even want to do anything else.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, even offering is like, [SPEAKER_03]: It's like one minute at the very end of like, hey, if you call this your church, then give.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if you don't, then don't.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not going to like preach another five minute message on a why you should get because I think that you're insulting people's intelligence at that point.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think I've observed obviously we've been doing this 25 years.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we've seen the emergent movement.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then like the young adult services, everybody is like barstoles and oriental rugs and candles.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we've seen all the errors.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I do feel like they're we're in a new era where [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if it was COVID.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think after everything happened at Hillsong and some other places like that, this celebrity preacher era, the preachers and sneakers era kind of like everybody just kind of is right when COVID it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's like taste just changed.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like that isn't that isn't what we want from church anymore.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then coming out of COVID, you're right, a lot of people when isolated, they went online, did they reconnect?

[SPEAKER_05]: We are seeing the data that Gen Z and Millennials are coming back in church and they're the highest attending demographic and all this kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's amazing to see what guys doing this generation.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I do think that they encountered God on their own in isolation.

[SPEAKER_05]: and a lot of feelings led theology kind of like they taught themselves what they wanted to believe and they did like pick and choose Pope Auree theology and stuff and now that they're going back into church they're like I think the need is first not entertainment and it's not for slick production.

[SPEAKER_05]: The need is for [SPEAKER_05]: encounter God and teach the depths of the Word because there's a generation who's hungry for Him but they know what they've taught themselves essentially and so it's like let's get into the actual scripture and let's foundationally like, you know, get strong theology together.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's the need right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so I see the churches that are all like slick and big, certain illustrations and cars and flames and smoke.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like there's an appetite shifting away from that and I see people looking for something more substantive.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm glad to hear you saying that because that's just been what I've been [SPEAKER_03]: But also like isn't it isn't it sad that there are churches that won't pit it like what they'll do was they'll adopt language while trying to Continue doing what they were doing right it's like a bacon switch They're just trying to continue doing what they've always done because that's all they know how to do which you know It just speaks to the kind of leader that they are and I just think that [SPEAKER_03]: every leader should remain flexible and we should be willing to put it because, you know, the Bible says he who went souls as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to be able to speak to people how they're listening.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not trying to get them to listen how I want them to hear.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a difference between like a preacher and [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know an artist or a music artist, you know, if this is my genre and this is my song this is my art, I'm gonna present it to you and I want you to like it and if not I'm gonna try to convince you to like it The gospel is not that we we preach it in a way so that people could understand it [SPEAKER_03]: without changing what's true, without lying, about what's true, without hiding, what's true.

[SPEAKER_03]: If this is what we believe in, and this is the word of God that we stand on, and we're gonna preach it, and I think what this generation is looking for is just flat foot of preaching.

[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't have to be loud, it could be loud.

[SPEAKER_03]: It could be a whisper, it's not about the volume, it's about the honesty.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know how silly of us, like even what you just mentioned about what has happened, the reason why people started researching on their own, is because they weren't hearing it in their churches, but they were hearing it in their churches where their passives wanted to present their new book idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: or their capital campaign, and they're trying to weave it into why this was the Ramah word of the Lord for this season, and people like you're insulting my intelligence, I'm not immediate.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know what you're trying to do, and I'm actually not even mad that you have a book that you want to push, but right now the world is on fire.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we don't need to hear this book [SPEAKER_03]: what we need are real handles to work through it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is what people are responding to.

[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I think when that's the approach by the way, people are more willing to agree to disagree without there being this argument.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think when people feel unheard, I mean, they feel ignored.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's where we're seeing the frustration and the rage.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not that people don't want God.

[SPEAKER_03]: They just don't want to go to your church.

[SPEAKER_03]: And those are two very different things.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting you say that too because like for mirror perspective I wonder if you see people less like offended right and what I mean by that is like coming out of the era You're talking about where a lot of churches kind of modeled themselves from leadership all down.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like this is like almost like a business model and and you know People who go to the church I have like almost like this customer service mindset like my needs to be met where I can find out of the place to go and I should complain if [SPEAKER_05]: It was going to podcasts.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can go listen to podcasts and stuff and hear the best speakers in the world.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, but they sort of, but also, you know, a fair and say it's sort of been conditioned that this is like a consumer type of experience.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: Where most of the country's Christianity, the entire modern American church is centered around the is a me central Christianity is that I would this program on with this style of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: And look, I'm not saying it's all like the malicious impulse, as I think some people were like, oh, I want a model growth after businesses that have grown and these are the practices they do they try to meet individual needs.

[SPEAKER_06]: But what you're talking about Chris seems to be a little bit different where it's kind of it's not like it take it or leave it, but it's like, look, I'm not here necessarily this isn't necessarily like a consumer type of relationship it's something different.

[SPEAKER_06]: Have you seen that dynamic change the interactions when people are.

[SPEAKER_06]: of, you know, offended by something or disagree with something, have you found it has led to more dialogue and most conflict?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's so much easier to build that way, by the way, because people respect your honesty.

[SPEAKER_03]: And as long as you could be honest and have a regulated nervous system at the same time, that's important because if I'm just responding with this anxiousness or being overwhelmed [SPEAKER_03]: The different issue by the way.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like all four of us on this podcast right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure there are several things we don't agree on But even if we don't agree on it, we could still work through conversations and I think that is where Again, where people have been so frustrated for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: In my lobby Or in the lobby of where we're gathering, you know, I'm going there now between services and I just talk with people and like I said We're in downtown Manhattan Union Square [SPEAKER_03]: Washington Square Park and why you are surrounding us so we have people coming that don't fully agree with what I agree with and what I believe the Bible says about sin and I believe that Roman's one is correct from beginning to end and this is what I believe is true about what the Bible calls sin and [SPEAKER_03]: At the same time, I want you to keep coming to our church if you're comfortable coming, and let's keep talking about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like the only way we get there is by walking with one another.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not just looking for your agreement.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is where people have just made mistakes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like if you don't agree with me, you know, the devil is a lie.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, well, you know, Jesus walked with Peter and called him Satan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's something to that that we could, we could disagree with one another and see [SPEAKER_03]: get away from me.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's something beautiful about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: How do you deal in New York?

[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like, I mean, I actually talked in a crawl over the years, like he, he told me like in New York, obviously a lot of people are transient or really haven't been in the church, but they have like strong social justice values and opinions about, you know, you know, issues that are dear to them, you know, important to them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And [SPEAKER_05]: And they, in Carl would tell me that, especially in New York, like he felt a pressure to have to address every social conversation and every news headlines stuff like that, or else they would kind of like, you know, reject the church and like, oh, you're not talking about important things or whatever carols are just like, I just want to talk about Jesus, you know, how do you straddle that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, are you like saying, hey, listen, I mean, does the church deal with the current event stuff?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because I've we've seen a lot of conversations, especially over the last month about.

[SPEAKER_05]: National tragedies happening in your pastor should speak about this and like stand up and be you know like how do you straddle that because it's a it's an interesting time we're in but in the work I think would be the governor of all that tension yeah by the way Sunday number two for us was right after [SPEAKER_03]: you know, the public murder of Charlie Kirk.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I definitely prayed for his family and I prayed what was going on in our nation just like I prayed for the family of the young woman who was murdered on that train in Charlotte or I prayed for, you know, the parents of those kids, the head at school shooting.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I pray for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, it's like I'm not going left or right.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going Kingdom and I know that could sound cliche But we're gonna pray for people and regardless of what you agree on or disagree on.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would have prayed the same way Had it been AOC who in New York, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Of course comes from the Bronx far left doesn't agree what we agree with but she's a human [SPEAKER_03]: and her life matters.

[SPEAKER_03]: And somebody could watch this and I'm sure they're going to be offended.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're going to say, but Charlie was our martyr.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: And his life was taken and it should have been taken.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: But according to the word of God, every life matters and his important that we pay attention to.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think the churches that are picking these political sides are necessarily the wisest because we don't fully agree on all sides and what happens is when you don't admit that you look like a liar.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I agree with you on the stances but let's also agree that even though we have the same stances, there are character issues.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you're saying this person is a managad.

[SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't even trust them as a youth pastor.

[SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't [SPEAKER_03]: even trust them to be alone with your children.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you're telling me that that's a manic off.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's stop acting like that doesn't exist.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that people feel like they have to pick.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they're over here, over here.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I just refuse.

[SPEAKER_03]: I refuse to move.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think people respect more of the honesty and more of that approach.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the people that don't, I'm sure, you know, won't come back to my church.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: If they want to church, that's polarizing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to just, you know, pitch 10 on one side.

[SPEAKER_03]: They can go to [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you're also New Yorker.

[SPEAKER_05]: Aren't you doing like stuff as well season starts next week?

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Are you a you're still a team chaplain for the next or no?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not this season because we planted a church and I needed to to to focus on the planting of the church, but you know, we haven't we have a bunch of the guys and some the women from the MBA that come to the church, which is really.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, which one?

[SPEAKER_03]: Who's the who are real Christians?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not I'm not doing that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's where some of our friends [SPEAKER_05]: I just had the Jonathan Isaac from the magic.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just interviewed him for my podcast.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's been awesome by the way.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and so I literally like like record and like in the middle of it, like so who are the real Christians in the game?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like who are the fake ones who are the real ones?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like whatever he name names.

[SPEAKER_04]: He name names dude.

[SPEAKER_04]: I loved it.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, I'm so glad you asked.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: He was not the good guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was not about the guys who was, you know, happy about, but they're all, there are a lot of I have both believing Christians in the NBA on not only in the player, but even on the corporate side, like that they love Jesus.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they stand pretty firm on their convictions.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: How long are you going to chop them for the next?

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, uh, uh, not the mix.

[SPEAKER_03]: I wish I was just the next.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to be so responsible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not eligible.

[SPEAKER_03]: I should have.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, if the next call, I'm there.

[SPEAKER_03]: But um, no, I was, I was a chaplain for two seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, because so I am not the sports person on the podcast, but I will ask sports question because I've become more knowledgeable of the sports world because it feels like there's so many athletes speaking out about their faith and to me, like I feel like I haven't seen that many athletes speak out on the faith in my entire life, do you feel like there is a growing shift or are they just becoming more vocal about it?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think they're becoming more vocal about it, but I think that until your backstage with these players, we don't even realize what their world really is.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we see it on highlight reals, we see sports center, we hear about big contracts.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the truth is, is as transient as New York is, is as transient as the NBA is.

[SPEAKER_03]: And these guys are constantly on edge.

[SPEAKER_03]: They don't know if they're going to be traded, they don't know if their contract is going to be renewed.

[SPEAKER_03]: So what I learned when we would start our travels [SPEAKER_03]: preaching and then praying, I would always pray first and then preach.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say, hey, what are your prayer requests?

[SPEAKER_03]: And there was not one chapel where we didn't get almost everyone in the room.

[SPEAKER_03]: If not everyone in the room every time, shaft their prayer request.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was always for their body.

[SPEAKER_03]: for their peace and for their finances.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that these guys are carrying a whole lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that their mind is like us fixated on their families and the pressure to keep up and to be able to provide and am I good enough to stay on this team.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they love Jesus.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're asking for for his help.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then there's a lot of them that, you know, the duty Christianity almost like with superstition.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like if I just pray, then I'm gonna be good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Chapples is that they would be joined.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it would always be both teams 60 minutes before tip-off and you would always get people from other teams coming in and Honestly, there was always this common respect amongst all the players because honestly they're all just trying to make it It's like they're living in survival mode unless you're you know top 10 players in the NBA, but which obviously majority are not But yes at the same time that there were a lot of players that are standing strong in their faith and [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I want to preach the good news of Jesus in there 23 carry in all that.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's crazy Anyway, we'll watch one more one more question as you can see I'm wearing a newer Jets hat, which is a Curse I married into many years ago of marrying a someone from the New York area [SPEAKER_06]: and in the giants just came we're talking after giants had had a fantastic Thursday night when obviously they don't need prayers right now in New York are awesome right now just what giants yeah what how many just desperate humbled completely broken people from the jets organization stumble in to your service just asking for any prayer i mean at this stage literally miracles we need that [SPEAKER_03]: So we we've had like yeah, people that work for the organization for sure come What did they confess to you that has put them in such a [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, listen, the tension in New York right now is that the Yankees just lost and that's what everyone is feeling and you know the Met's obviously a few weeks before so their New York is is feeling pretty tense right now people are not happy Well, the hey at least they got to scatter boo and Jackson dart out whenever whenever he did a and Jet's Chapel they would come and do you have any pair of quest was like I'm horrible that my job I don't know what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can you just I'm a fraud?

[SPEAKER_06]: I have people who don't find out [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard.

[SPEAKER_06]: The weird thing is as soon as they go to another team, something magically, they get them.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're magically good.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were waiting on their miracle and it happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: It just so happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were wearing another jersey when it did.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, I'm team New York.

[SPEAKER_03]: So whether it's the Nixon that's the Giants, the Jets, the Metz the Yankees, whoever, I'm supporting all of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm praying for all of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to want to come to my job.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, you get the Rangers look good and who knows.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And maybe maybe the giants have turned it around.

[SPEAKER_05]: So well, everybody go.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you're in the New York area, you go check out good company church also followed fall Chris on Instagram.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want, if you want some good car based.

[SPEAKER_05]: 30 second sermons in your feed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for a great follow-up.

[SPEAKER_01]: More than that, I do feel I'm going to defend them as they he does more than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You want to see the text that when can't text me about this?

[SPEAKER_03]: In a view, he was like, hey, can you make sure you're not in your office?

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I write back, like, you mean like not in my car?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I knew he was standing and he was like, yeah, you do your stuff in the car.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I know, bro, told me this people [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of, you don't have space in New York, man, so we got to figure it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for joining us, Chris.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like I said, go check out Good Company Church if you're in New York.

[SPEAKER_05]: Make sure to follow relevant on all the socials.

[SPEAKER_05]: Instagram at relevant magazine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check out relevant magazine.com every day as well.

[SPEAKER_05]: On that note, we'll wrap it on Cameron's trying.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm Jesse Gary.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm Emily Brown.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you next Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_05]: Have a great week, everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the relevant podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: For the latest at the intersection of faith, life, and culture, make sure to check out relevant magazine.com.

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