Aol the media.

All right, sister needs no introduction.

We are super excited to do this.

I told her before we started that like we felt like we just gonna pull up from the logo and see if like see if it happens, you know, and we are honored to have the Queen Sister.

Jamil here here.

How are you doing.

I'm good.

It's a pleasure to be on looking forward to this conversation.

So thank you.

I appreciate you having me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, nah.

This was like it's perfect.

You know.

I feel like in a lot of ways, like what you're trying to do is in a lot of ways in the same spirit or what we do over here, like you know our shows called the Politics for prop and like there's a few play on words here.

One.

It's like, you know, I've always felt like Detroit is like as her cousins to La, Like I think I feel like in some ways it's like I was actually talking to house Shoes again another mutual.

I was talking to him yesterday that I always feel like, as I feel like the rules in like La sort of like just like urban like kind of politics they translate to Detroit, you know, like little stuff where It's just like if I turn a corner, this is clearly a block I probably shouldn't be on.

But if I'm here, let me just address the LG like you know, some chief is your world, Like I'll just address you.

You know what I'm saying, and like that's the rules where we are like acknowledge that this is not your block, and I am a guest.

So I feel like, you know, what we're trying to do here is like the hood of politics in the sense that like that is an actual thing as far as like how our neighborhoods kind of interact with each other.

But also I feel like if you.

Grew up in any of our urban areas and had to navigate this world, you actually understand politics better than you think you do.

Oh and no question, but you know, honestly I do.

And it's funny because like I live in Los Angeles now right, you know, been out here since twenty eighteen, and I've been coming to Caligue for years, to LA specifically for years.

And what I would say is the thing that binds LA and Detroite together beyond ice cube, where of course the D logo and the hood which you had us very excited during that time.

Is I think it is.

I'll preface it by saying, people who are from LA not transplants, Okay to to there's a very big difference.

Talk to you who are from LA and the people who are you know, from Detroit.

There is a realness that are in both residents that makes the bonding really easy.

And I say this a lot, especially now living here and understanding the hood of politics of LA.

Is you know, I have to tell a lot of it's like, Nah, it's the transplants y'all don't like because trust me, people who are really from LA move a lot different, very different, like very differently, Like they don't know Hollywood shit like most of the LA people, I know, cool as.

Hell like, and we don't go to Hollywood exactly.

We don't be going up there.

Yeah, going up there, right?

You are that You took the words right out of my mouth.

That's what it is.

A lot of us like same thing with Detroit.

Like our families.

I mean, it was the great migration.

Our families are from the South.

So like when you get here with us, we're like, yo, you know, pull up to the barbecue, like say what's up?

You know?

Address my granny when you walk in the house.

You know what I'm saying, like, let's have a good time.

It's cool with respect, you know what I mean.

And and again the same thing, like I said, that's the same thing I say to the transplants too, is like y'all coming here to the network, you know.

And I'm like, that's not really, that's not really how we move here, Like.

It's not transactional A yeah, exactly.

Just I think the people here are in the mindset that that's what LA isn't about.

And I was like, clearly, you don't talk to people who are actually from LA because LA people are not about that shit at all at all.

We smell it immediately, like we smell it immediately immediately, and.

It's y'all don't do that.

And I think it's really helpful, you know, for me in transitioning to L, A is like having got my sense of LA from people who are actually from LA.

Yes.

And then you know, on top of that, like you know, I live in a majority of black neighborhood, so I know black LA.

That's what I know.

All those issues that people talk about with LA, frankly, are not really part of my universe because I don't deal with those issues because I deal with like real black people.

So what can I say?

You could say exactly what you said, because that's what I look.

I had none to add because like, as a born and raised California native, I'm like, amen or all of that, it just don't be this is not how we move, you know, and we And I again, you saying that confirms what I've always felt, which was like it was almost like you got here.

I mean, don't let me put words in your mouth, but it was like you got here and then maybe like your brain kind of clicked and was like, oh, I can just do what I've always known to do, which is just be real.

You know what i'merstand, Yeah it is.

I'm happy that I had the institutional knowledge of LA before I really moved here, and which again I credit to the people who are from LA really showing me La.

And so I think you also, you can find community much easier than people make it seen in Los Angeles, and I am kind of a little surprised when I often run into black people who are transplants to LA who talk about how they have a hard time finding community in LA.

But I think one of the reasons why that may be that is the shocking thing about LA that I didn't realize until I actually lived here.

I did not realize actually how few black people it is in LA.

Like I think, yeah, now it is right.

And so I think growing up consuming the media about LA be a boys in the hood society and I just looved movies, but just generally you got the sense living in Detroit and in the Midwest probably period that LA was like black as fuck.

That was like, that was the sense that you got.

I was like, oh, LA must be real black.

Yeah right, Yeah.

And I got here and I saw the stat that black folks only accounted for like nine percent of the population in LA, and I could not believe it.

I was like, what, Yeah, there was a yeah, no, you're right.

And a lot of my friends from like the South and the Midwest feel the same way too, They're like, yo, where are the black people?

And I was like, no, don't get me wrong, Like there was a time, you know, saying when you know, my family got here, you know, at the end of Jim pro era, during the Wahton Hours projects, when you could come buy a house.

You know what, I'm saying like it's so so it was a mass Exo is from Texas.

My great grandma, Granny, all her kids all like the whole family came, you know, so I like I said, I'm born and raised here.

But they all transplanted in the sixties.

But it still feels like it was multi generational because three generations came at the same time.

But they all came into a very black space.

Like I was, I'm from South Central, you know what I mean, And anything south of the ten is just black, you know what I mean.

That being said, I think, especially like it's been difficult for me to explain this to a lot of black people who.

Are not from here.

Is that like California's Mexico, So like I feel like they're not You think like, oh, if it's not black, then it's.

White, and we're like, no, it's this is this was Mexico.

White people are a minority.

You can live your whole life in Cali and never see what Like in weird ways, I'm saying, if you know how to.

Stay where you're supposed to stay, you feel me.

But but on the other hand, it's like the Mexican influence, the Latino influence, is completely unavoidable.

Like that is that is something that at least for my life.

I wasn't outside during the crack academic I was a child, you know what I'm saying.

But during Boys in the Hood, I was a middle schooler, So it's like I still wasn't Those were our big homies, you know what I'm saying.

But by the time we were running the streets of a lot of the black and brown stuff was really just jail, like they had worked all that out, you know what I'm saying.

So there were still of course, our rules was still very cool.

Like where I live now was a no fly zone when I was a younger, as far as like for the Latino community, like black people didn't come over here, you know what I'm saying.

But I speak Spanish, you know what I'm saying.

So I picked up a lot of the culture and if you from here, you have to know a little Spanish, you know what I'm saying, Like just just the rules.

You feel me.

But that being said, that element, you know, I always felt like has always made something super unique as far as like as far as what it means to really be a black La Native is like you have some yo, Miss Gonzales was your that was your kindergarten teacher.

You feel me.

Miss Perez lived across the street, you know.

For sole.

You know what I'm saying.

You know more Spanish than you think you do.

You know what I'm saying, because you've had to speak at your whole life, not realizing or or like.

For me, it was like, my wife is first gen' she's a she's first gen Mexican, but like her grandfather's black.

You feel me so like, but but they're from Mexico, like he's from southern Mexico.

But anyway, I've been speaking Spanish my whole life, but since she's first gen, I didn't realize a lot of my Spanish was really just slang.

It was like just the spanglish, yes, spanglish, just like jolo.

So when I'm meeting her grandmother, she they was like her cousins are like, gro your Spanish is great.

It's just very disrespectful because you just and I'm like, what, like, yeah, bro, you don't talk to elders that way.

You feel me.

It's like walking your grandma house and being like, what's up, gi, how you doing?

Like you can't talk?

You don't talk to nobody's grandma like that.

But now I know anyway.

But you know that is I think what you said explained why there are not I'm not I'm not trying to make it seem like it's a significant percentage, but there why there are some black people who move here who are a little uncomfortable with that sort of dynamic.

And the great thing about being from Detroit and a lot of people who have never been to Detroit or just go by what is whatever their perception of Detroit is, it's like, yes, Detroit is percentage wise the black of city in America.

Like, yes, about eighty percent black in Detroit.

That being said, that other twenty is a strong other scenario.

So like whereas here black people were very used to being in close contact intermingling with Latinos, in Detroit, if you grew up there, you're used to that same close contact.

But with Arabs, you're yes, correct, because Detroit has the largest Arab population outside of the Middle East, and so we all grew up on Middle Eastern food.

We grew up on you know, falafos and all this other stuff like that was part of our upgreement.

The ethnic enclaves in Detroit are super strong.

So you have the and I think Dearborn is probably the only majority Arab city in America.

They have like a completely Arab local government.

You know, you go there, you feel like you're in a Middle Eastern city.

And we grew up in very close contact and so it was not uncommon for us to mingle with Arabs, you know, at the stores, at like different places, much like it is in California.

We also have Mexican Town, which is in Southwest Detroit.

Southwest Detroit isretty much, significantly strongly Mexican, which is why we call it Mexican Town.

Right, So there, you know, you can get some of the best Mexican food outside of California.

Hold up, now, hold up.

Now, that's why I said outside of Yeah, I appreciate it.

So yeah, Like I think this is why navigating, you know, our our nuance of race in America is so limited, because it's so much beyond just black and white and most of us.

If you live in any city with any level of diversity that's like remotely big and populous, then you're going to have to navigate these different racial dynamics.

You know, there you can it's every ethnicity in l A.

You got reea town, you got like it is, like how specific do you want the racial semics to be in California?

Because trust me, I was just and my husband came just came back from we went to Greece and we went to Egypt and I think it was somebody in Egypt one of our guys.

I was telling this.

I was like, oh, no, believe me.

What there is a specialty grocery store, but everything, all of it in Los Angeles.

We got it.

Don't even worry about it.

Some of the uh, these things that these Egyptian items you show up me, trust me, I get them in.

LA I believe it.

Man, dude, that's so dope.

Well that's definitely like the hotails and the other stuff we wanted to talk about, Like you know, I could gush over your hometown, like performing in there, like all the different spots.

I've got my like bucket list, Like I played Saint Andrew's.

You know I've been to you know, yeah, I've been there.

You know what I'm saying.

I got my like I remember like we did a little interlude, you know, during the set, like I did a little like j Lib, little little Diller interlude, and like all of the staff kind of like stopped and like look like you know what I'm saying, And I'm like.

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

Like you know, But anyway, so that you know, I played in Ferndale, you know, at the what is it the what is it called?

Like the magic something like that.

I forgot what it's called.

Him Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, you know, and Ben a dearborn and was like so present, like pleasantly surprised as like an LA kid to see truly the diversity of Detroit and what it is.

I think was it in Ferndale?

Was it the Magic Bag?

That's it?

The Magic Bag?

Okay, because I didn't think about it.

I was like what yeah, yeah, you know Detroit.

Detroit has such a rich musical tradition.

Clearly most people are familiar with Motown, right, I mean where?

And what I love about Detroit, much like La, is that there's a difference between creating music and creating a sound.

Yes, and Detroit we have created a sound.

And yeah, cities are cousins.

Yeah, correct made a town, made a sound.

Yeah, he made a sound.

And even on the techno music scene.

Like Detroit for a long time had the largest techno I don't know if it's still the case, the largest techno musical festival in the world.

We do or as we call a hood tech.

We do hood tech.

So like those body detroiters know, like we git we like house music.

You know, we're constantly fighting with our other cousin Chicago about yeah.

It really belongs to Yeah.

What's funny is like the difference between Chicago and Detroit is not even.

It's still closer than here in San Francisco.

So it's funny to us that y'all like still like, like, y'all, this would be the same state for us anyway.

I don't want to waste talk.

Yea, it would be it would be us.

It would be Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago could all be inside of Calatia in California.

Yeah, all right, So I want to get to all the topics here.

I got way more notes than I need.

But it's just like I got such a great brain on here, I want to talk about them all.

We want to talk about politics, about sports.

W NBA, and like I just ens a producer on the show.

We were saying, like, you know, any man who would ever like, fix they mouth, like my grandma would say, whatever, fix your mouth.

To say that you have.

Like no misogyny in you is a damn lie like nigga you lying?

You know what I'm saying.

But there's some just some shit I just don't understand, Like I I I cannot wrap my mind around throwing a dildo on a court, like I just I cannot rap.

Like what the hell is you?

What is your point?

Young man?

You know what I'm saying, Like, I feel like some people just like some people just need they ass beat.

Like that's that says to me.

Ain't nobody beat your ass before?

Because if you know what I'm saying, because you would have known by that.

So I want to talk about that a little bit.

Your thoughts on I guess like the Kaitlin Kark Angel Reese thing, but the one, the number one thing is like, Okay, if you gonna watch the NBA, now you have to have at least three streamers.

Yeah, I'm like Mondays.

So we wrote it down Monday's Peacock, Tuesday's NBC and Peacock, Wednesday's ESPN, Thursday's Amazon Prime, Friday's Prime in ESPN, Saturdays, Amazon Prime in ABC, Sunday's ABC, NBC and Peacock Now.

And you got to subscribe to your local team like you need W you need NBA TV, and you need the specific Lakers package.

If I'm gonna watch a game, like what is y'all?

Can you help this?

Can you help me?

Math?

This?

Math so well?

By the way, I would suggest W NBA League Pass only, it's like probably the best league Pass deal out there.

Okay, Yeah, I got mine because they were running a special and I believe it was like thirty five bucks.

I don't talk to me about how you got yours from the I'm saying.

No, they were running a special for the public, Like I don't know, like it was they said past, but it was.

It was very cheap.

Okay, And I've had lead Pass for a couple of years.

I think I might have they probably knowing them.

They probably raise the price now because of the interest level.

But I'll say this, what you're describing is unfortunately the modern reality for all sports fans.

You think that's something, check out what the NBA schedule is going to be like this fall, and by where you have to watch games, it's between NBC Peacock, esp Like, it's it's the same, all of them, all of them.

It's like you need all the streaming services.

Oiler if you got one of them fire sticks, and you know what I mean by one of them fire sticks exactly.

What I'm have.

Do you think I'm asta describe to all of this?

So, ma'am, no, I saw a startling graphic that was on the internet that was actually true.

Unlike most of them.

Is that the cost, Like if you were a fan and you wanted to pay to see every NFL game this season, the cost for the season would be eleven hundred dollars and what eleven hundred because the YouTube if you got direct TV, like or if you got the Sunday ticket package.

Yeah, and then and then you got Monday Night football.

That's another Like, it's different subscriptions, right because so and you have Peacock because they're gonna have games, and you gotta have Netflix because they have Christmas Day.

So there's there's multiple streaming services you have to subscribe to.

And right now, I think there's a lot of fans that are feeling frustrated.

But the problem is that frustration never results in them not paying and sports leagues know this, especially the NFL.

They know this, and because you look at the top ten most view programs and it's always the like the the NFL games are gonna probably be eight of the ten, if not ten of the ten.

And so this has sports fans have put themselves at a tremendous disadvantage because they have troubles to them that they can't live without them.

And so yeah, there, the WNBA is just microcosm of what is the reality for every sportsman.

Talk to a baseball fan, they really I mean watching your trying to watch Major League Baseball like you can't.

But it's also I think at some point and we and we see this throughout with a lot of things that we have in this society, gross capitalism eventually ruins everything is what it is.

And so with Major League Baseball, for example, given the way their package is set up, it's why they can't they can't generate any star power because it used to be you could watch the whole league and you only needed a few channels to do that.

Well, now if you want to let's say you're a Dodger fan, but you know you like me, you want to watch the Tigers you want to see the other good teams across Major League Baseball.

The amount of money that that takes now is simply not worth it.

So baseball has now been reduced to becoming very regional.

And that's why Mike Trout can walk down the street and nobody knows who he is.

That's why Mookie back outside of LA can walk down the street.

Yeah here he walks on water, but yeah.

Here it's different in different but Mookie, yeah, no, you right, No, that's a good why So yeah, like the capitalism of it all just looked at y'all and was like.

You ain't gonna do ship pretty.

Much right, Like they're just like you gonna what what you're gonna do?

Like what what are you gonna not walk?

Dang, that's called his ice, I think too, Like, man, it's you bringing that up makes me actually think about one of the questions I was gonna ask later about, like I know how I square this circle personally, Like so I'm I'm I'm gonna fillet myself first.

But like my father was a black panther.

We've always been very revolutionary.

I've been in this reads for you know, in these ice protests.

You know what I'm saying, uh, you know, anti capitalists, anti corporate, anti corporate, you know what I'm saying, anti establishment, have been like that for most of my life.

Obviously, people won't understand money, think that if you anti capitalist, it means you ain't trying to make no money.

That's as if capitalism invented making money.

That's not true.

But there is a.

Part of me that you know, even our whole network, is that our little team on on our little cool zone media were all like leftists, like unashamedly like we're leftists.

You know what I'm saying.

On iHeartMedia, you know what I mean.

Like on this multi conglomerate corporation talking this anti corporate shit, you know what I'm saying.

So I just wondered, you know what I'm saying, like you you know obviously you you you was done super dirty when you were standing ten toes down, you know what I'm saying.

On some like I'm not gonna stand for this shit.

You know you feel me.

But then at the same time, it's like when you in the ocean, you gotta swim, you know what I'm saying.

Like, so I just wonder, like, in what ways do you like square that circle where, like I said, like we're both on iHeart, you know what I'm saying, So like I'm just wondering, like how how you've been able to like navigate that, Like I said, I know how I do it, but I was just wondering.

So we're all compromised.

What you said is very true.

We're all compromised because as much as I despise so much about mainstream media, my entire career has been in mainstream media, but it used to be sort of my opinion that, Okay, the way to shake the system, shift the system is you got to break them from at the end.

That's a lie.

And I realized a long time ago that was a lie, and it was an unfortunate reality to confront because I think from an activist standpointing, you know this, especially given your relationship with the Black Panther Party is for so long, we have parroted the narrative that we got to change the system from within, and that's not what happens.

What happens every single time is that they don't change the system.

The system changes you.

So you become just like the system that you were trying to change from within.

And I am now of the you know, despite being compromised, is that I still have to use these compromised tools as a leverage for something wider.

So even though yes, we're both platformed by iHeart Multi you know, big player in the podcast world, it is the most effective way to get out the message at this point.

And while I have other platforms that I use that are completely independent of any corporate relationship, the fact is to move and to radicalize requires money.

To do that.

And I remember this was the end of the day.

Yeah, And I remember years ago I was on a panel which Tommy Smith, you know Tommy Smith, of Tommy Smith and John Carlos who raised their fist at the sixteen Olympics, right, And I was and Tommy Smith he really put it into the perspective and he talked about how when they came back from that Olympics where they raised the raised their fists to bring attention to the fact that here they were representing their representing a country that did not respect them, that did not considered them sub human.

And he said when they came back to the States, they couldn't get jobs, they couldn't economically, they had a very tough time surviving, and so it just while we are in a deeply capitalistic system.

It's like there is nothing about being radical that says it requires you to be broke, because honestly, a lot of how you can move you have to use your money as leverage.

You know.

As a smaller example, but a recent example, people look at the guys who created South Park and how they just completely blow towards Donald Trump.

Right.

The reason they were able to blow towards Donald Trump on the same platform that just pretty much let themselves be extorted by Donald Trump is because they have a billion dollars in leverage to do it.

And that's how much Paramount paid them for South Park is a billion dollars, right, And they generate a lot of money for Paramount and Slash CDs.

So the whole point is that it's nobody is saying that you have to be a slave to money or that you should just be out here moving in very unethical ways.

But the money gives you the leverage, and it's an important component to what we do, even in the compromises that we make, Like there's there's relationships that I have to maintain to do and talk as freely as I do facts, and I think we're all kind of in that situation and understand that.

Listen, I would love to be unencumbered from some of these relationships and just talk my shit and just that bank account just look like it looked and it's just like, wow, that's beautiful.

But that's not reality.

The reality is to talk your shit in the way that you feel like is effective and that reaches the people you need to reach.

You have to be compromised in some areas to keep that machine going.

Yeah, So that's how I reconcile it.

No, no, same, It's like if you have you know.

Your point about like the South Park dudes is like, first of all, they have proven their return on their investment.

We've already proven that we're financially viable, and now we have fuck off money.

So and they literally and this is probably what bothers me more than anything is that when the people who have fuck you money never say fuck you.

And what I can respect about the South Park guys is they got fuck you money and literally said it and said it.

Yeah you know and and and and can't and will walk away.

One thing I did learn, but which you're you're absolutely right, But like in addition to that, like again just sort of the uh, the combination of all of our worlds, like whether it's sports or music or entertainment or even streets, Like I can't if I'm not willing to walk away from the table and just be like, well fuck you, I don't need this, then we're not negotiating.

Like then there's there, Then there's really no leverage.

I felt like some of the scariest dudes when I grew up with were the We're the calm ones.

We're the ones that very calmly.

I have a I'm not gonna say, well, I can say his name, My cousin Arjuna.

He's he was.

I mean, he's like a muytide fighter trainer, now you know what I'm saying.

So he was always like, you know, you know, a little boys and just like he naturally buff, like that was my cousin.

The rest of us was rail thin.

He was just he naturally right.

And I mean I was getting picked on at some point from this like it's like blood dude, whatever, right, you know, we got like kids, right, and the dude was like a lot he was a lot bigger than me, you know, but it's like this is just this is just what it is.

If you have to catch a fag, you catch your faith.

But anyway, my cousin jumped in the middle of it when it got a little weird, and he was just like jamil as calm as I'm talking right now.

He said, Hey, don't talk to my cousin like that, like that, calm, you know what I'm saying.

And it's just.

It's when you can speak that call because I know, like, boy, I will send you in the next week.

Like it communicates that, like I'll send you in the next week.

I know something you don't.

So like you said that, fuck you.

Money is the one that says who's who works in a compromise system is the one that says, I can go use other.

Tools, you know what I mean.

Like I think that's I think that's largely true because like the leverage often that people have over when it comes to to silence, Like, yes, silence is usually created by the fact that the person is not willing to walk away from whatever is the situation.

So it's like if you're not willing to walk away, then then you're willing to be silenced.

Yeah, it's the people that are like you can.

People always ask me when I was at ESPN and me and my friend and former television partner Michael Smith about our show and like, why you all seem to be very unapologetic about what you're doing, And the reason it came off that way is because one, that was who we really were.

But the more important thing is, like we lived by the principal of y'all can have this shit anytime y'all want to come get.

It, see and until talk to them.

Yeah, I mean that was really our attitude.

Our attitude was you know what I mean.

Neither one of us imagined ourselves when we got into journalism as being television for ours So it wasn't something that we ever hinged our identity on and said like, if I'm not this television star, then my career is worthlets.

It didn't mean that much to us.

What made the show was the fact that we were two friends who just wanted to do some bullshit and talk some shit on TV.

That was literally that was That was That was our fun.

Fun was you know, being able to bring our personalities to daily television and talk about sports in a way that was fun and engaging and not so serious.

Like we weren't saving babies from burning buildings, like we talking about sports, like like what are we talking about here?

Good?

Right, we're good, like we won.

Okay, we are you know.

And so because we had that mentality of they they can have this ship if we can't be ourselves.

That's the best leverage that we ever had being at the network and why we had probably more creative freedom than we even really understood.

And and what's yes to your point and is like they.

It's crazy how people how the institution at some point sees the value in that that you know, like like I said, like the person that's the same way the person that's speaking really calm, the other person listens and goes, Okay, they know something I don't.

So you having this like this attitude and like just again these compromise too.

It's like and it also like it worked, y'all just be and y'allselves worked, you know what I mean, Like that's I mean, that's why I know who you are.

You know what I'm saying, and why like I know, I keyed in.

I was like they show different like oh she they different.

They talk like us, you know what I'm saying, And that to me, is like that element of authenticity is like you know, obviously is what our politics are missing.

Is a person that's like I just feel like, and we gonna get to this next part.

You know what I'm saying, because I can say I do won't waste the time.

But I just feel like if when a person is running for office with not like you know, astro turfed like authority, but somebody that's like I really got it out the mud, I really care about this city.

I'm gonna do this work regardless whether you put me in the office or not.

It takes a million dollars you I'm saying.

It's just like, look, dog, I need a million dollars on me.

Like you know what I'm saying, Like, I'm gonna go get this money from these people.

They know who I am, they know what I'm gonna say, they know what I'm gonna do.

You know who I am, you know what I say, you know what I'm gonna do.

Let's try to get this, Let's try to make this happen.

You know, if somebody would just be to me, I personally like somebody just get on this, get on get on the camera and just say that like look, dog, these flights ain't cheap, you know, like flights ain't cheap on me, the commercials ain't free, like you know, like I need this money, I need the bread, like what you want me to say?

You know, it's funny because what you said reminded me of something that my husband talks about.

He and I talk about a lot.

And he was like, you know, one of the he sees is one of the major problems that we have in our societies that honesty is not actually rewarded.

And because we were talking about this in the scope of dating, actually not necessarily our dating story, but just how you know, he was saying like, well, you know, sometimes me and will be real with women, and then.

That was all bad, yes, just anyway, and yeah, I was like.

No, it's not that, It's just that you all sometimes my experience is that that.

Yeah, you could say, yeah, you're not the only woman I'm talking to.

Cool, that's great.

You're allowing me to make an educated choice about whether or not I want to proceed and getting to know you, knowing that you out here they and other women.

But if I say I respect that, but no thanks, then you get all mad and it's just like, well, you can be to me, but I'm gonna still make a choice that say.

It's like that ain't really what I want to deal with.

And he was, oh, that's why I'm not rewarded, and I'm like, no, you get this, you know, you get to be fun of streets.

That's not gonna always be the reward.

What do you be rewarded?

Like she not allowed to have a response, exactly, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's funny.

I was like, to your point, the probably the woman I was most like when I was down the baddest was when I met my now wife, Like I was like the bad and at that point I was down so bad, you know that.

I was just like, look, I ain't no point me lying like this was happening right now, you feel me?

And I was like, I it's not where I'm always be, you know what I'm saying.

These were the situations that got me to this point.

You feel me.

Here's what I'm working on now, you know you know obviously, I mean fifteen years later, you know what I'm saying.

But like, but at the time, to your point, I was like, dude, that was I never thought about it like that, But that was one of one of one of the most honest I had ever.

Been, because you had to have any choice.

I had no choice, Like, well, you know what I'm saying, like I was on tour, Like this is this too much?

CMI, But I was on tour.

While I was on tour, like my apartment got flooded, and then one in the roommate.

My roommate was like two months behind on his half of the rim sending in the rent.

But it's only half.

So the landlord like, you're half and I'm like, fam, you ain't been paying a rent.

He was like, well they housed the flooded house.

The house is flooded.

I'm like that don't mean you can.

You still got to pay the LEYO saying, so, like I done lost my apartment.

I got to move back into my daddy house.

Like you'm saying what your rap was.

I'm homeless and I'm living with my father.

There's thing.

I have a master's degree, I'm a college graduate and I live in my daddy's house.

I don't know what to tell you, yo say you know, but see, but the whole point is you gave her, I gave her, You gave her the opportunity to make an educated opinion.

And so where I was going with that was that often in politics, we don't reward on as politicians, so they don't really have any incentive to be honest or authentic.

And you know, I can tell you so many stories about politicians who you have opinions of versus how they have come off to the majority of the mainstream on television and whatever, versus how they are in private, and in private you'll be like, I need to see this person.

But I understand that if the goal of the exercise is to get as many votes as possible, there are more people who this is going to sound crazy, there are more people who frankly want this honest politicians than ones that do.

And in America, with sales and politics, our narratives and storylines, it's like we treat politics like we treat sports, which is part of the reason why we're in this situation we're in right now.

And so we don't reward the authenticity, so they have no reason to give it.

They don't have any like be honest with us?

Are you kidding?

A lot of us could not handle if the politicians were actually honest with about And so they instead create narratives around who they are as opposed to appealing as real people.

I think Hillary Clinton's a great example.

I had an opportunity, so Hillary and Chelsea Clinton, they had a show on Apple and they asked me to be a part of It's had a chance to like, you know, sort of spend time with them.

Not you know, they're Hillary and Chelsea obviously, but like I see who Hillary Clinton is on social media.

And you know, it was funny because when we when we recorded the show, we recorded it in d C.

And it was at a Mexican restaurant and it was a bunch of women just to have a conversation about, you know, different things, politics, family life, you know that kind of stuff.

And they taped this off for Apple.

So the waiter comes around and is asking everybody, you know, what they want to eat, people giving their orders or whatever, and Hillary Clinton was the only one who ordered to drink.

I was like, well, I'm drinking with Hillary glick.

Yeah.

Correct.

And so being Hillary up there drink at tequila, right, we think it the good old time.

And I was just thinking to myself the whole time, like, you know, the shame of it is the way our political structure is set up, and I realized, like, there are people understandably who had issues with Hillary Clinton and some of her politics.

That's fine, but I also was thinking, like, you know, it's a shame she couldn't be this person that I'm seeing right now because the way our political structure is set up, and frankly, the way our misogyny is set up, especially for women, the way the misogyny is set up, it just doesn't allow for this.

And my, my, it's not even a fear because it's a reality.

Is that the very these structures and these systems that have been built in our country are killing us.

And I don't I don't think many of us really understand the extent to which that is happening.

Real the capitalism is killing us, the misogy is killing us.

The white supremacy don't then murdered us a thousand times over, and it's just like, why we keep signing up for this?

Yes, why there is zero I like, as somebody who talks about politics every week on the internet, it is it is these very things that gave us the president we got now, because like if you was just doing just I'm just saying, just be the grossest of capitalists.

Then you would be like, this man is a bad choice for us, Like you know what I'm saying, and even the choices he's making, even concerning you know, immigration and stuff like that.

I'm like, bro, this, don't you fucking up the money?

Like I like, I'm just I'm gonna be as horrible as possible.

That is fucking up the money.

The plainest way you could say it.

And it's like, I don't understand why this doesn't compute because I'm sitting up here and you've seen it all across social media and we've seen it on the news them, you know, and I just some of I'm very irritated with the media because they keep doing these breathless stories of running to these business owners who voted for Trump and their business is now fucked over, Okay, but just taking that that that component of this and fixating on it.

For a minute, I'm like, so, let me get this straight.

You lived.

I think there was this one that just went viral.

My man lived in Maine.

Maine is not at least if you live in Texas and immigration is an issue.

I kind of get it, all right, you live in Texas, You're right there by Mexico.

All right, fine, you live in Maine and Joe Biden literally put money in your pocket because the passing of the Infrastructure Bill allowed him as an engineer to get more work than he has ever seen.

Yeah, lecture came around in twenty twenty four.

This dumb ass voted for Trump because of the border.

You live in Maine.

It was like the Canadian.

And he's at the job because because Trump rolled back all the the initiatives that dealt with his particular feel and so he's out of a job.

I was like, so you sat up there at your big age and did not have the critical thinking to realize.

You know, it's like the people that are voting voting for Trump because the trans athletes and ain't got no kids and ain't got nobody competing this sports.

It's like, I don't understand this.

Also, like I'm like, you have met a trans person and you already know that it's not that many of them.

For them, enough of them.

So I'm like, oh, well, you never met one, and like you said, like you've never seen the only immigrant you've ever seen is from Canada.

So could you live in Yeah?

So out, I'm Okay, I love it.

I know, yeah, just working against your own self because you cannot fathom the idea of anyone other than a mediocre white man being the best person for the job.

I just don't understand how.

That mediocre is doing a lot of work.

Mediocre is struggling.

There's a lot of work because I'm like, I actually wish it was me.

My man did the last week, did the most relatable thing I ever seen when he went up to the roof and just started walking around.

I was like, bro, let me tell you something.

You know, how need resumes?

I done lied on to beget I was like, oh, I really got to notice that I landed the book deal.

I remember the first time I landed my book deal.

I got the deposit in the first half of it, and I was like, oh shit, I gotta write the book now, Like it just kind of hit me, like.

I I have to write the book.

I get it to go.

Take a walk up there, bruh, catch your breath, yourself saying, but.

I really ran for president and I got a government.

What goddamn somebody on it.

I saw some lady like she was like she was like, imagine being such a criminal.

So much in jail, so much in trouble that you got to run for president to stop yourself from going to jail.

And then he was like then she was like people being mad at me for being bad at the job, Like, bitch, I am a criminal.

I don't know, of course, I'm bad at this job.

Okay, we gotta move on.

I can do this forever.

So I want to talk to you about but I'll give you a chance to think about it.

But I kind of want you to explain the Alaska summit with Trump and Putin, but in Detroit terms, like.

Like like talk to you like you were talking to like talking to a little vice lord.

You feel me like, let me tell you what just happened.

Yo, hilarious, Yes, because you know the thing is in Detroit.

While there, I think you probably have found this, uh that there there is always some presence of like bloods and cribs in a lot of American cities, right, but it's not very high in Detroit, you know, Like I've heard there are some.

I was like, I but I heard there.

You know, y'all, y'all, y'all g d's and vice lords up there.

Now we know no vice lords is gds.

That's more of a Chicago Chicago.

Yeah, yeah, that's a Chicago thing.

That's not really US.

I mean, we have our gangs are related to street.

We have neighborhood.

You know, Like I grew up on a street called seven Mile, right, So like you have people who grew up on seven like seven mile down, you know whatever.

Yeah, people who grew up on Puritan.

We call them the PA Boys.

And you know Born Avenue, that's literally what it stands for.

So it's like you have more street by street and you know, gang culture is not I don't.

I don't think it's very robust in Detroit, you know, frankly, And so what I would saying is that if I were explaining to.

You, talk to a little yn right now, like explain to you, all right, so you know what I'm saying, Like, so we could I mean, you know the high points, you know, Trump go up there.

He's trying to like negotiate this peace treaty with the peace with the war were wanted.

The niggas ain't even here, which is already crazy.

You know what I'm saying, Like why is you here in the first place?

You know this, you know, And then anyway and then.

To come back.

But I don't think it would be any different than how you would probably how you just explained it.

I mean, like we have east Side, west Side Indy Tray, right, Like I'm from the west Side, and so it would be like, all right, east Side and I'm trying to have this beef or trying to resolve this beef rather that east Side and west Side.

I haven't.

But I'm a dude from Southfield, Like Southfield is like like what like okay, but I think you mentioning Zeleski not being there, so maybe it wouldn't quite be that it would be.

It would more or less be like Southfield and the east Side have beef.

I'm the west Side and I go to the east side because the east Side and the west Side like they're both huge, huge real estate and Detroit Like it's like the reason why I eight mile, why Eminem named it that is because eight miles separates the city from the suburbs, right, So that's why eight miles the dividing line, and so the west the east Side got beef with Southfield.

Southfield is is a suburb.

It's like it's kind of in a way, it's our version of Ladaria Heights.

It's like, so a lot of the people in Detroit they got a little money, they all moved out.

It's a little nicer, right, So they those two got beef.

I'm the west Side and so I don't even talk to Southfield.

I just go talk to the to the east Side and be like, hey, I know we have our beef at times, but I'm gonna capitulate to you.

Were gonna negotiate a peace treaty with Southfield between the two of us, even though Southfield ain't even here.

And it's like what It's like, who does that?

You know?

And I guess hellcats are big in Detroit, So I guess it's like I, as a Westsider, even though I've had long standing beef with the east Side, I'm gonna let the president of the east Side ride of my hellcat to prove.

I guess that like have the upper hand, even though I look like a clown like.

It is.

Yeah, I mean, it is kind of startling to see this because you know, like a I'm a Mia seventies babies, so I'm seven thousand years old, and so I was growing up in the time where you know, the Cold War like Russia.

You'll fuck with Russia like Russia.

It's the reason why when Rocky four dropped, okay, guy, and he fought Drago, all right, and he went over there and liberated some people by beating the Russians.

Egg.

It's like Rocky took seven hundred and two shots to the dome, but somehow he won.

It's okay.

So the whole point is that growing up we had we were inu dated with propaganda that Russia is the enemy of the United States.

So it is wild to see a scenario where our president is sitting up there, you know, playing foot sees with a war criminal.

Of that Bruh, who is clearly going back to the going back to my cousin, who's clearly not scared of you.

We're speaking very calmly, Ongie.

You know Trump like six foot nine, you know put Putin like five two.

Did you see how Putin was looking at the White House like he's there, like I'm on a field trip.

Like what he's smiling.

He probably got some souvenirs.

Homie came out of this meeting.

I I if it wasn't so deadly, it would have been the funniest thing I ever seen Putting got on the camera and was like, so, yeah, we talked.

I think we did good.

My stance is exactly what the fuck my stance has been the whole time.

But you know what I'm saying, Like, so we could.

We came to a compromise, which was exactly what I wanted the whole time.

Trump like we you know, we we like, speak up, son, speak up.

You know, maybe we'll come back to it.

We didn't get to the main thing.

What what not?

What now?

What?

Now?

I can't hear you.

You ain't get to the what.

It's just a staggering level of incompetence.

And much like you I've said, I was like, man, this season of America would be really fucking funny.

If I didn't live here.

This would be hilarious.

If I could skip to season five, it would be great.

I have all the jokes exactly.

But yeah, man, I ain't never seen nobody like just bro like you just like seen somebody just strike out so many times but then walk back to the home.

He's like, nah, home, y'all did that?

Like you know, you know, you didn't know.

The analogy I thought of sometimes with Trump is and you know, we've all experienced this.

It's like there were people that when you were going to the club that you were like, I can't go to the club with.

That person, right, absolutely, not.

Yes, we're gonna be fighting and it's whatever, but it's gonna be a problem.

It's gonna be a problem.

So he's literally the person that you go with to the club that start all the shit.

You wind up fighting.

You may win these fights, and then they like claiming victory, like, look how tough we are, but like, we wouldn't have gotten none of that shit if you if you'd have just set your ass drink the Crown royal like everybody else.

You know, remember when we was all like the arsonist who's putting out his own fire.

Absolutely, the fire that unnecessary fires.

Absolutely.

We had some other political analysts on here once and they were they were talking about how like we've never seen anything like this, And then that's when I was like, that's cut y'all not from the hood, and I'm like, oh, we know, I know one hundred trumps, you know what I'm saying.

We just but we all had sense enough to not put him in charge.

So that.

I'm curious about that analogy so like what would be the hood caricature of a Donald Trump that you have run into.

So the hood.

So to me, it's this like he's he's the street dude.

That's like like he's a hustler, he's talker, you know, but it's it's almost always cap like almost everything you say is cap.

But if we don't believe you is violence because you got some young dudes like that that you keep around you that gass you up everywhere you go.

It's that same dude that come into the club.

He always got four five dudes with him that listen to everything he say, and the rest of us is looking at the little dudes like what that's that's your.

Big homie, Like he like everything he tell you, like we were there, like what he telling you?

That was not that ain't happening and like you said, and like you said, he the one that like talking big whatever whatever.

And then when the op coming to the club, he's like, hey, homie, the ops is here.

I'm finished slide right now.

I got this chick, I'm finished slide with all.

Girl right here.

Y'all got this Okay, I talk to y'all tomorrow.

We'll ball out tomorrow.

I'm like you, you've been a wet now you know what I'm saying.

It's the dude who like his his his his masculinity is so fragile, like he's so he's so cupcake that the only way to talk to him is the only way to get through to him is to gass him up first, Like I can't, like, that's the only way I could get you to actually like sit down for a second.

I gotta talk about, like, okay, how this show blocked, this show like that that you everybody's gotta like I real, I'm I'm looking I'm looking at this kid's face in my mind, like and when we everybody, we all had to coordinate to say what we was gonna say to him because if if the story somehow, he gonna he gonna because I know he gonna tell you, he gonna tell you this.

When we do this, and then all of a sudden, like you said, then the Vothos gonna.

Come around the corner.

And now we gotta deal with he said this and this and this, and we can't cause you are homie, I can't like tell the votos like now you know what I'm saying, because it's like you from our neighborhood.

So I can't.

Like, then we gotta and then we got to pull the other dudes from the other neighborhood a side and say, hey, listen man, like, don't listen to anything he say.

Okay, like like ever, just don't listen to anything he say.

I know, like just pretend like he in charge, but like, listen, he don't listen to nothing, you say, you know what I'm saying, like, and it's just if we look like idiots now you know what I'm saying, because it and it's like and they and they looking across to me where it's like, well, I know you.

I know that's your boy, so I know you have to stick up for him.

And it's almost like like I look at the EU looking at the rest of America, going I get.

It, guys, I know you got to stick up for you boy, like I feel for you.

We're just like, well, I think that's like, well, first of all, that's a dynamic breakdown and the I often I'm fluent in wire as in the Wire the series, and so well to me, you know what trump is Stringer Bell.

And the reason why I say that is because probably one of my favorite scene.

I mean there's every scene.

I feel like it's my favorite scene in the Wire but brilliant, but used to always piss me off about Stringer bell is well one the way he moved on DiAngelo's baby Mom.

That's what's at the point.

The other thing is that was just awful, egregious.

The other thing that's awful.

I was like, I have no notes.

Terrible.

But the thing is Stinger Belle was literally sitting up in a community a community college class.

And this is no shade to community colleges because a lot of people got to start there.

But he said he took about two ECON classes and then suddenly wanted to run his or He talked about, we need a quorum.

It's like, my man, what are we doing here?

He gonna take the Barksdale Empire and run it like Microsoft.

It's like, what are you doing?

And then everybody told you no enough, yep, thank you.

And then he got over his head and he was always throwing out these you know, I had to take micro and macro econ when I was at Michigan State to qualify to get into the School of Journalism, and he taking the most basic concepts in the he's John and trying to make it seem like he is Bill Gates, and I'm just.

Like what, And sir, you read the back of four books.

You read the back of them, and so it's like a.

Homie, everybody read the Art of War.

You're not doing anything.

I got it.

You got your copy of the Laws of Power to forty eight Laws of Power, and now you think you are a master negotiator.

And then he gets in bed, of course, with some real g's, which are politicians who can shake you down like nobody's business.

He gets totally shook down.

And I will never forget when Avon finally checked his ass and was like, that's what you get for playing them fucking away games because you got beneath, you got above your station, thinking your two three credit courses was going to lead you.

Yes, like what are we doing?

And so Donald Trump very much reminds me of that type of mentality.

Is just bullshit your way through everything.

He just gonna be his way through everything.

And he takes the very little bit of things that he knows and positions himself often as an expert in things he has no clue on.

He does not know if flattery is the way that people can pick your pockets and they're constantly flattering you and you too stupid and not saying yeah.

It's like yeah yeah, like yeah yeah, the play is the play seems so obvious now, like after two sessions or two terms with him, that like, oh, that's that's what the tech bros Are doing.

Like I was like, oh, y'all, don't oh you Oh he's a lick.

I get it now, Like it took me a second to be like, oh, oh y'all hitting the lick.

Okay, well I get it.

You know what I'm saying, man, And it's and it's uh, you know, the stain of this presidency is something that will never be arrased.

Was because I think he's permanently changed how we view office.

He's permanently changed the function of the of the president.

And while I think it would be hard for him, hard for another person to win the way that he did, I do think there is a blueprint there that teaches you something about how to win elections.

And you know, I've had this conversation with a lot of Democrats and I've told them, listen, if I were you all like the voters, because I say this when it comes to television, like we have black people, as you know, like in our community, one of the constant conversations is not having enough variety in black entertainment.

So people it feels like at least two three times a year take off on BT for lack of programming or lack of whatever, and da da da, and it's like, well, we want to watch more elevated programming and blah dah da da da day.

Okay.

So my constant kind of counter to them because I had this conversation with a BT executive not too long ago.

So BE was actually offered Love and Hip Hop first, really, and they turned it down.

And a big reason they turned it down because they knew culturally that they would get demonized if they put Love and Hip Hop on the air.

And so I say that because I'm like, uh, I guess that was great that you had that sensibility.

But you see how big the Love and Hip Hop franchise became.

It changed everything for MTV and like MTV like people don't even realize it used to actually show videos on MTV anymore.

So my point is that when we had these conversations about black entertainment, everybody likes to position themselves like they're watching PBS, and it's like, this can't be possible because I look at the ratings and a lot of y'all watching trash TV.

But then you get on the internet and lie about it and act like, no, no, I don't watch things like that.

Well, how did Real Housewives of Atlanta get four million viewers?

I'm trying to figure it out, like somehow they got it?

What are.

Four million of y'all?

Lion I say this to Democratic politicians all the time.

You guys with policy, which technically you should do, right, But voters don't care about policy.

I know they don't care because every time they.

Vote, they don't.

We would not be here right.

They don't vote on policy like we did some degree.

And you know this is going to come off as very insulting to the American public.

The American public is used to being entertained.

We're a consumption society.

So what Trump figured out is entertain them and they'll never question you.

He had not a single one policy.

The only thing he could just tell you is I'm gonna deport a bunch of people.

He didn't tell you how that was gonna tappen.

He didn't tell you the cost of how it was.

He didn't tell you anything.

But they getting the fuck up out of here.

That's all he told you.

He sold them a narrative.

He did not sell them policy.

And so what I would tell them is create a narrative.

That's what you see.

It's like I could tell you about the you know, you could sell people on the infrastructure bill and all that kind of stuff.

When people are like, well, what does nobody do?

Well, Unfortunately for most people, they're not policy aware enough to even understand how the policy impacted their lives.

Stop selling the policy.

You have to realize you're dealing with the underinformed, politically illiterate.

Populace, and you have to like nerds.

Yeah right, yeah, I mean.

And I think that's why Gavin Newsom has made this.

He'll turn because he realized, like, they don't give a damn about whatever policy.

I don't care.

Sit up on here and just being speaking.

All caps and just call Trump every name in the book and that'll be enough.

And guess what.

It works.

It's really smart, man, because when somebody goes, oh, you stupid, you sound dumb, he's like, do I does this not sound presidential?

Right.

It's like, do you do that to your kids when you start talking to your kids the way they talk to you, and they're like, oh, why you sound like that?

You're like, you tell me, sweetheart, is it annoying?

Does it feel disrespectful when somebody out to.

You that way?

Is that how it feels?

Yeah?

I know, you know what I'm saying.

So yeah, nah, yeah, you figured it out.

It's a narrative and it and it feels like gravel in my mouth to uh to give Gavin newsom any you like.

Me?

Anybody slick they hair back, you can't trust you know what I'm saying.

But like, but either way, now you figured it out, man, And even like on this uh you know we get in here, but like even on the like us going through the new like sort of jerrymanderin that we're trying to do over here.

For the redistricting we had, California has had a great districting system.

You know, it was independent, you had to vote on it.

That's why our district are they're like they're super competitive, you know what I'm saying, And they make sense, Like our districts make sense.

There's even understanding in California, like legislature specifically in LA, like there's black and brown communication is like they've agreed to keep certain districts ran by certain populations, Like there's an agreement among them and say like like that, like as as a Latino, we will not run for the Lahmrt Park Kintrot Frenchyall district.

We won't run for that.

So you don't run for Boyle Heights, you know what I mean.

It's like absolutely, we love it.

You know what I'm saying.

You understand that district.

You know what I'm saying.

It's like we've worked this out, you know what I'm saying.

But it's like like like like we were saying earlier, but it's like I we didn't at this point.

We ain't make the rules.

So you could be a nerd and say jerrymandering is wrong.

You know what Texas is doing is wrong.

It's unfair and they're cheating, And you can still stand on the sideline and say that's cheating.

It's like the but so what do you do?

Hey, listen, what did that great urban philosopher Beanie Beni Singull teachers get down to.

Laid down, get down to laid down and gentlemen, this is our time.

It has been field with the chef's kiss.

You get out, get down, and lay down.

It's real simple, and that's what we got to do.

Jamelle, thank you so much.

Can you please plug all of your socials, all of your shows?

Sure?

Yeah, no people.

I have a weekly podcast on I Hire Cost Politics.

It's about the relationship between sports and politics.

And I also have a YouTube channel that I have a lot of fresh content on that and commentary, so and across social media.

I'm Jamel Hill.

So I encourage you all to check out check me out wherever.

I'm around, she's around.

Thank you so much.

We'll be back next week.

Thank you.

All right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod.

You better listen to these credits.

I need you to finish this thing so I can get the download numbers.

Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen.

This was recorded in East Lost boil Heights by your boy Propaganda.

Tap in with me at prop hip hop dot com.

If you're in the coldbrew coffee we got terraform Coldbrew.

You can go there dot com and use promo code hood get twenty percent off get yourself some coffee.

This was mixed, edited, and mastered by your boy Matt Alsowski Killing the Beast Softly.

Check out his website Matdowsowski dot com.

I'm a speller for you because I know M A T T O S O W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com.

He got more music and stuff like that on there, so gonna check out The heat.

Politics is a member of cool Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network.

Your theme music and scoring is also by the one and overly Mattowsowski.

Still killing the beats softly, So listen.

Don't let nobody lie to you.

If you understand urban living, you understand politics.

These people is not smarter than you.

We'll see y'all next week.