Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea.

Hi.

What day is it today?

Today's Thursday, because our podcast comes out on Thursday.

Yes, and I have some very exciting news for our listeners.

I just announced all my tour dates.

They just went on sale this week.

It's called the Height and Mighty Tour.

I will be starting debuting my new material.

Well I've already started debuting my new material, but in an organized tour form in February of next year.

So I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago, of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri, Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham, North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Medeesta, California, and port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.

I will be touring.

From February through June.

Those are the cities that I'm in.

Pre sale started last week, so tickets are flying.

I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these, So go get your tickets now if you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty tour.

Yay, fantastic.

Yeah.

What do you have going on this weekend?

This weekend?

Well, last weekend was more interesting because I got home Friday night at five in the morning.

I went to go see The Who at the Hollywood Bowl, which was fun, so much fucking fun.

He's eighty one years old, Roger Daltrey.

He's a fucking nugget.

I was in love with him.

Of course had my LSD so that was like had me pumping and he was just so just vivacious.

I couldn't believe this guy is eighty one years old.

And Pete Townsend and it was just so fucking fun, fun going to the Hollywood Bowl.

We had a great.

Time and then we went out to another party.

So I got home late that night, around three.

Then the next night I went to Paris Hilton's party, which I thought was a birthday party.

But it was a housewarming party to a house I'm pretty sure I've been to before, so I'm not really Anyway, that was a really fun night too, and then I ended up going to another party after that and I was out until six.

In the morning.

I mean this wild woman.

Yeah, this is like me living in my thirties again.

And then on Sunday i'd to cancel like I got a there's a uh what are those massages where they kind of go into your you know, the drainage at emphatic?

Yeah, I had my Karen was texting me saying, your messuse is here.

I'm like what, I'm like, I just got to sleep.

No, thank you, Please pay her and tell her I'm sorry.

And then canceled about three more things, and then I went to my friend DJs and she made us all dinner for a Sunday night, so lovely.

It was a very jam packed weekend.

Yeah.

I am going to the Hollywood Bowl actually for the first time in years this week or no tomorrow to see Pulp.

Oh.

I saw that met Glassenberg did.

Were the right.

Yeah, I'm so excited.

Yeah, they're like one of my favorite, all time favorite bands and I've never seen the moment.

They were amazing.

Oh I'm jealous.

When are they playing Friday?

So it's yeah, it's tomorrow.

I'm heading to h Away for the weekend, so I won't be able to go to the Hollywood Boat, but I would have gone back for them.

No heck, yeah, yeah for sure.

Our guest today is best known for her roles on The Flight Attendant and Girls.

She's here to talk about her very new book, Does This Make Me Funny?

Please welcome actor and writer Zasha Mammot.

Hi, Hi, Katie Pie.

How are you?

What shake?

And bacon?

What Shake?

And Zasha Mammett is here with us today.

She's here promoting her new book.

This is not her first book.

This is her second book because she wrote, well, a kind of a cookbook.

And a kind of a memoir.

I don't know, well, it was an anthology, so like, I didn't entirely write it myself.

I got I, like hoodwinked a bunch of other really smart, talented people to write it for me.

That's what I do when I get bored with anything.

I'm like, how do I continue this without actually contributing?

But this book you did write yourself, and this is more of a memoir, I would say, right.

Yeah, that word makes me want to like pull my teeth out one by one.

But yes, does it make your vagina close tight?

When things really annoy me, my vagina starts to hurt or shut.

Yeah, just like, why why do you hate the word memoir?

I feel like I don't like deserve to have written a memoir.

I guess, Okay, well that's a great place to start, because this whole book is basically you not believing you deserve anything, which is before you got on.

Catherine and I were talking about you, comparing it.

She was saying it's generational, and I was missing.

I was like, no, it's it's it's your whole generation that doesn't feel deserving of things.

And she's like no, she was talking about your father, who's David Mammott, of course, having it.

And I was like, isn't that intergenerational.

That would be like the whole family doesn't feel like they're enough.

Oh yeah, sure.

But I think it is both things.

It's intergenerational and generational.

If we're getting down to the brass tacks of things, see, it's all of the above.

It's all of the above.

Anyway, it's a book of essays, and that's a better way to describe it.

That's how I describe my books as well, because I've written so many that how could it possibly be a memoir?

Even though each one is.

They are just essays and stories that I want to share, which this book does.

And the book is called does This Make Me Funny?

And there's a really really adorable picture of you on the cover as a little girl.

So I want to talk about you calling yourself a b minus NEPO baby at best.

I want to talk a little bit about Nepo babies because I.

Just had this conversation.

I went to the US Open and Jessica Pagoula, who was playing at the US Open.

I don't know if you're familiar with her.

She's a great tennis player.

She made it to like I guess, the semi finals.

Her father is some big magnate of some business.

I'm not sure which one.

He's a billionaire though right.

He had come into the US Open on his mega yacht to watch her at the at the finals, and and there were people talking about that, and I was with my trainer talking about it, and he goes, it makes me so crazy that anyone could say, think that you could get to that level just because your father has money, And I said, well, it's about money and access, But at the end of the day, you have to have the talent to sustain your ability to get more than one job.

If you're going to base that on one job, it's not like your parents.

You're in every movie with your fucking father, you know, and every show with your father.

Look like Jessica Springsteen had parents who could allot her the opportunity, but like Bruce Springsteen did not get her to the Olympics.

Also, like Bruce Springsteen sings and she rides horses.

So it's so fucking and like.

Maybe my family is like slightly closer together, but like I'm I'm and I now have written a book, but like I certainly wasn't doing exactly what my dad did.

No, And also, nepotism doesn't replace talent.

People aren't going to continue to hire somebody because of their parents.

Like that's just not the way that it works.

When there's other people that could be more talented if they if they could hire them, they're hiring them a favor.

It happens once, it doesn't happen over and over and over again.

And also with regard to Jessica, like there's this background story when she had withstood like major back injuries, major rehabilitation, major like things that went awry earlier in her career that she had to recover from, and also you know, have a determination to actually improve upon and get better and better.

So arguably she had to fight even harder.

And what I would say is, in my experience in this business, I find that people who have famous parents like yourself, actually many times have to work harder.

It's interesting.

I was having that conversation with Billy Lord recently and we're talking about how love Billy.

I think she's the best ever.

Yeah, she's so great.

But like, there is this misconception that we are handed it so easily and that we don't have to work hard for it, and people forget that you do actually have to be good at what you're doing.

And so I think people often try to create higher, harder, more obstacles for us because they've like they're like they have a chip on their shoulder about it.

Absolutely, that's what I think, and it's not a blanket statement.

I'm sure there are some celebrity kids that you know, maybe aren't that talented that are getting more opportunities than others.

But you almost have to prove yourself even more because people are like, oh, well, you're not just gonna fly by on your mother or your father's name.

You actually have to prove yourself.

And I'm sure that this isn't the case for everybody, But like Billy and I were talking, really it's not as if our parents were like, here's a fully financed movie with a leading role for you that's gonna hopefully win you and Oscar, Like they were not helping us in any way, Like my dad never gave me a job.

My dad never told someone else to give me a job.

Like you know, we were just saying, our parents aren't just handing out legs up you know, here, there and everywhere.

We happened to have maybe access, And I honestly think the greatest thing that growing up in a famous family in the industry allotted me was knowledge, Like I just got to see what it was actually like, so I went into it without any misconceptions.

But that's also another point.

It's like, if you have two parents that are in the industry of entertainment, it's not like you're going to be attracted to plumbing and you're gonna say, oh, I want it, or accounting or any of the other vocations.

It's natural for children to have two parents that are in some industry to also become a person that is in that industry.

Yeah, even if their lawyers are a plumber.

Like you said, get very defensive on your behalf.

I hope you can.

I hope you can feel my aggravation.

Fantastic.

I sound like I'm an EPO baby, but I wanted to be an EPO baby.

That would have been a dream come true for me.

But no, Okay, this is something that that you talk about in the very first chapter or the introduction of your book that I just want to read on the podcast because I thought it was so fucking bold and great and such a thing that a man could do.

She's talking about her dad.

And he walked in to a producer in Chicago with a copy of his first Broadway play, American Buffalo, and without a penny to his name.

He threw the play down on the producer's desk they had hard copies in those days, and said, if that play doesn't win the Pulitzer Prize, I'll pay you five thousand dollars.

It did not, but the next one did.

The brazenness of that and the confidence of that is like, it's what I want for every woman to feel.

I know, it's pretty crazy, right, like never a day, never a day in my life, or if I did that immediately followed by an apology.

Yeah yeah, I mean, we still say we're sorry if we cough, yeah, I'm sorry.

I could get to the point of doing it, and then the second I had finished being like I am powerful woman, hear me where I'd be like, I'm so sorry.

That was really inappropriate.

I didn't actually I'm I'm going to leave your lunches on me, like yeah.

I also hate when we say I'm sorry.

When we start to cry, we always go i'm so sorry.

It's like, why why are we sorry that we're crying we're feeling emotions.

When we correct someone else's mistake, it's like, I'm sorry, but this is actually no.

Yeah, don't know, I know, I know, there's so much there's too much material to talk about that.

I mean, please, sorry, but you're reading that book upside down.

I'm really sorry, but.

Yeah, okay, you say something here on this is something I talk a lot about on this podcast, whether it's writers, actors.

If you say I didn't yet have the career I want, and I spend an unhealthy amount of time thinking about women my age who do and wishing them not harm per se, but maybe hoping that they change their names and move to Siberia for a few years and give me a shot at bat for a while.

To most people, I've had a very successful career, for which I am intertally grateful.

I would like to talk about jealousy a little bit and envy.

Because I also feel like that is a healthy, normal feeling for anyone in any any part of the world.

It doesn't matter what industry you are in to feel there is nothing wrong with feeling envy.

It's acting on envy where things become problematic.

So I love that you wrote that in the book.

Do you want to talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, I do think that it's normal.

I think it would be weird if we didn't feel that way.

I do think that it can reach an unhealthy, abnormal level in this industry, specifically amongst women, because I think we're fed this idea in the entertainment industry.

I mean, I don't know I guess, being women in general in any industry, that there's a finite amount of pie to be had, and so if someone else gets a piece of it, that means that there's less for you.

And I just don't think at the end of the day that that's actually accurate.

I think that that's untrue, and like, if you want to get really heavy, part of me is like, is that a deep seated move on the patriarchy, because like if we were to all band together, we would just be too fucking powerful to like kind of pit us against each other.

I think that's absolutely true.

I mean that's the whole point of it.

I mean, because women are just now coming to the realization that we're stronger together, you know, and that all ships do rise with the tide.

I think that's really accurate.

I think they all I have to say out a lot, but I think this is an industry that is so success oriented, Like it's you're not getting brownie points for the script you wrote that didn't get produced, you know, like, and the most talented, nice person doesn't always get the job, and so I think it can foster a sort of unhealthy comparison game.

I was just gonna say comparison.

Yeah, and so I think I think that it is healthy to a certain extent.

I think it is one thousand percent normal.

But I think, specifically in this industry, I do a lot of work trying to check myself of just like mem it, stay in your own lane, Just stay in your like stop doing this, and just like stay in your own lane.

You have a pretty heartbreaking chapter in here about school as a young girl and going to school because your parents split up before you were even a year old, and then you were living in Cambridge initially, right, and then you moved with your mother, and then that created some separation between you and your dad, and then they both went on to have other children and other families.

So your first kind of formative years at school were brutal.

It was kind of, you know, really triggering to read, because I mean, we've all been there, you know, and some worse than others, but yours sounded like you withstood that trauma for as long as you possibly could and then had to say I can't do this anymore.

Yeah, and like too long looking back on it.

But also I was a kid and I didn't know I didn't really know that I could say that, but yeah, it got to the point where I was unable to handle it.

Like those all the kids, but I think those girls in particular were really They just seemed to live to make my life miserable.

Tell why don't you tell us the story about the birthday party and revealing being invited to the birthday party and having to call and find out what time it was.

Yeah, I mean, this is like a perfect example.

They would pull this shit all the time.

They would sort of lure me into asking a question about some things.

They were talking about something in front of me, and I was like, well, are you guys talking about They were like, oh, we're talking about I forget what I renamed the d's birthday party.

Yeah, And I was like, oh, when is it?

They were like, it's on Saturday.

It was like what time.

They're like, we're not sure.

You should call her and ask what time it is, like she hasn't told any of us, so we're waiting to find out.

And I was like, okay, great.

So then I go home and I call Evie and I'm like, hey, Evy, all the girls were talking about your birthday party on Saturday, and they told me to call you and ask what time it is?

What time is it?

And then she started hysterically sobbing and hung up the phone.

And then I get a call from a bunch of the girls, you know, a couple of minutes later, chastising me for ruining Evie's surprise birthday party.

So they would just set these traps for me.

Mind games, one thousand percent mind games.

They were full like Machiavellian.

These young little blonde ladies, I mean, young little.

Girls are brutal.

And for every woman here who's listening to this podcast, like anyone who has children, it is so important to teach your children kindness and compassion and not to be bullies.

Like I've had friends whose daughters have been billies and they were in complete denial about it because they chose to believe their daughter was a bully.

It is so important.

I mean, it is tortuous when you.

Are young and in defend like you don't know how to defend yourself, and you don't know where to go or who to talk to, and you know, it leads to so many problems in life.

And for like, I saw this beautiful video yesterday on Instagram of this boy wrestling at this wrestling match, and he was wrestling this kid who had cerebral palsy, whose.

Team allowed him to compete.

You know, at this level, they were looked like they were in sixth or seventh grade.

And the kid from the other school immediately recognized, you know, how easy it would be to beat this kid, and he sat there with him and let him, like slowly, slowly help this guy wrestle him to the ground so that he would win that match.

And every comment was like, whoever raised this boy did such a beautiful job, Like, and that's what I think about with regard to bullying.

It's like your parents have to be paying attention to how their children, especially young girls, because they are brutal.

And I know that we have problems with young boys too, but girls are just so mean to each other, and like, you cannot have your child behaving that way.

And it's very illustrative in this book of what you went through, so I think people are going to really like you know, I know I went through somehow growing up too.

And then you end up becoming a bully.

You either end up retreating and having an eating disorder, this disorder, you know, having no self esteem, or you end up becoming the bully that bullied you in order to defend yourself.

So your story is also great because that woman or that girl at the time, who's named Evie in the book, comes to see.

You during were You?

Was it the play on Broadway?

When she came with her father?

We were off Broadway?

Was the play that I met my husband doing.

We were doing it at the Littel.

And tell us what happened she came.

Yeah, So I left one night and the security guard told me that someone had left a note for me while we were on stage.

I and he gave me the note.

And I hadn't thought about this girl.

It's in over a decade, and I guess she and her dad had been walking by the theater and they had seen my name on the marquee and they'd written a note and left it with the box office.

And it was in her like you know, little curly cue scirwl and she's like, oh my god, Sash, We're so proud of you.

And it just made my blood run cold.

It like took me back to being that little girl with her playing these horrible nine games on me, and it made me so angry because I think that feeling pride for someone innately involves a type of ownership is the wrong word, but like you had a hand in that.

When you're like, I'm so proud of you, it normally means that like you have a deep connection to that person, or maybe you had a hand in them accomplishing whatever this thing was.

And it made me so deeply furious.

I was like, you don't get to be proud of me.

You don't get to have that.

And I tore up the note and I ground it into the New York sidewalk with my boot.

So you don't know that they saw the play, you just did?

They didn't.

It literally just walked by and saw my name on the marquee, which also I was just like, that's okay, okay, I don't know.

It wasn't even like they paid for and bought a ticket and came to see what I did.

Right exactly, Let's talk about your eating disorder.

And I say that in an upbeat tone for no reason whatsoever, but just because I'm assuming that you're out of the woods on that issue, Am I correct?

Now?

O?

Good?

You talk a lot.

About this and about this number in your head, one hundred pounds, one hundred pounds that.

Was the right weight.

And even when you went underneath one hundred pounds to ninety two pounds to ninety three pounds, you were sick, you were using drugs, you were partying, you were escaping.

Talk to us a little bit about that for the people that are listening, with children and girls that are experiencing that that are listening.

You know, I think the biggest misconception about an eating disorder is that that it's about the weight and that it's about the food, which, like, obviously, yes, that is an aspect of it, but at its core, it's about control, and it's born from this need to control when you feel out of control, and so food and your weight feel like these very tangible things, when like the thing that probably is making you feel out of control is not tangible whatsoever.

Like for me, it was my circumstance, my surroundings, the kids that I was in school with, my home life, and so my anxiety eating disorder brain latched onto this number that felt like if I can just achieve that number, then all of these feelings of fear and worthlessness and sadness will go away and I will finally feel safe.

But obviously that wasn't true because I hit that number and none of those feelings went away and I didn't feel safe, and so I was like, Okay, well maybe it's still that number, but I just have to try harder.

It's like your brain starts to make excuses as to why the thing you've decided is the answer is still the answer, when obviously it very much isn't.

And so I just kept trying to reach one hundred pounds.

It was a sort of amorphous goal in my mind that seemed like the silver bullet to all of my problems, and it really wasn't.

It was actually just slowly killing me.

And how did you finally come out of that?

Did you go into treatment?

I almost went into in treatment.

I didn't, And honestly, looking back on it, I do not envy a parent who is dealing with this.

I can only like it was obviously hard for me.

I think it was so much harder for my dad to feel helpless as well on the other side of it.

And I'm sure it is so hard to put a kid in treatment, and he tried, and I fought back really hard, and I honestly wish that I had, because I think my recovery would of taken is law, you know.

I think in treatment programs are there for a reason.

But really I have my dad to credit with finally turning the ship around.

I was really in a bad way.

I'd seen a lot of doctors who basically were like, you are You're dying, that's what's happening.

Like your body is disintegrating and you're dying.

And how brittle your bones were that they told you, like, you know, if you fell down, you could potentially break your pelvis like that.

You had just had no nutrition.

No nutrition, Yeah, I had.

I had arthritis.

I couldn't ride horses anymore.

I could like barely walk up a set of stairs like I had.

I had issues with my heart.

It was it was really bad.

And my dad came home from a dinner party one night where he'd sat next to someone whose daughter had recently gone through the same thing and had sort of come out the other side, and he ended up opening up to her and she talked to him for the whole dinner party, and she gave him the number of this woman who then become my therapist, who was incredible and fully saved my life.

But he came home and I was up reading in my bedroom and he came into my room and he sat on my bed, and my dad, as I'm sure you can imagine, is like a very strong, oftentimes very stoic person, and I'd never seen him cry, and he started crying and he put his head in my lap and he said, you have to promise me that you won't die, and you just kept saying it over and over again.

And it was the first time that I realized that what was happening to me wasn't just about me, and it was really my wake up call.

And I realized that if I died, it wouldn't just affect me, it would also affect him.

And I was like, Okay, well, I don't want to do that to him.

I don't really care about me yet, but I don't want to do that to him.

Yeah.

Wow, that's really moving.

It's amazing when you know somebody can say something like that to you and it has the impact that is strong enough to make you quit the thing, or to make you understand that you have to quit the thing that is going to destroy you and destroy the lives of the people that love you.

Yeah, okay, let's talk about some let's talk about girls.

Let's talk about getting that role and working with Lena and how that experience changed your life.

I mean, first of all, best fucking show ever, so great, so fucking awesome.

I mean I remember watching that show the first time.

I was like, this is going to be a huge because I think I was interviewing Lena.

Probably on Chelsea Lately or maybe my other talk show.

And I so I saw it before it was out and I got to watch the whole series.

I was like, this is going to be fucking huge, And of course it was because it was just exactly what everybody needed.

It was like your generations, Sex and the City just such a coming of age in New York City, so funny, so well cast, all of everybody in it was incredible.

So tell us about getting that part.

How that happened.

I was shooting this movie.

This is like truly terrible indie film in upstate New York with horrible conditions, like you know, nineteen twenty hour days all told in we were meant to be cheating early September, and it was late October and it was the coldest October on record.

It was so cold that the farmers were all like there will be no pumpkins for Halloween because our crops have frozen.

So it was like some sort of record breaking cold.

And I was always basically ninety percent of the movie was exteriors, and I was always in this tank top trash bag dress.

It was like literally a dress made of trash bags that I had to get ironed into every day, which is really, looking back on it, like should have been my first sign that this was not going to be a good experience because I was like literally wearing trash And I got this audition.

We were shooting six day weeks, so I had one day off, and I convinced this young pa not to go to church with her husband and her newborn baby and instead stay behind and help me film this audition in our production office, which was an abandoned barn that had very bad WI FI.

And I'm pretty technologically inept, so we filmed the audition.

It takes me like seven hours to get the tape to send to my agent, which almost doesn't happen.

At like hour three or four, I was like, I give up, I can't get this to send to keep saying your file is too large, and he was like, please, please, please, please, I really need your tape.

I think this show is going to be a really big deal.

So I finally get in my tape.

I end up getting the job.

We happen to have the Monday off that the table read is scheduled for in Manhattan, And at this point I've developed pneumonia from these long days shooting in the colds in my trash back dress.

But the producers have paid off a local doctor to tell me that I just have a head cold so that I can keep working.

They pay How did you find that out the PA's talk, you know what I mean?

So the woman who was like the PA that I spent the most time with ended up giving me the skinny.

Also, I sort of put it together anyways, because she kept showing up and listening to me, like breathing, and literally it sounded like, you know, like a water cooler in my lungs.

There was so much fluid.

And she would be like, just take some echinesia, and I was like, I feel like we're beyond that.

Yeah, achanesia.

And it's like when people talk about melotonin, it's like place.

Yeah.

I was so sick.

I was like at Death Store.

I would cough so hard i'd throw up like it was not cute.

So I came in that Sunday night before and I stayed with a friend of mine in the city, and I was like, I really want to be I want to be on my A game tomorrow.

I was super nervous.

It's like, I need to get a good night's sleep so I can like be with it tomorrow morning.

So I took some niightq Wuill and I I'm sure I took Nike Will before this, but I don't really have a recollection of doing so.

But I now know that Nike Will and I don't mesh well.

I don't remember much about the following morning.

I remember getting in the car, I remember it was raining, I remember getting to Silver Crep Studios, walking into the table Read.

I remember being introduced to Lena Dunham and Jedd Apatout and shaking their hands, and then I literally do not remember anything, like nothing.

It is a full void until I woke up on my friend's floor who I was staying with, like drenched in sweat, and I had this weird sort of fever dream recollection that I in the middle of the table read had like projectile vomited on the table, but I also didn't know if that was real or not because I was still sort of in a niqual haze.

So I called my agent freaking out and I was like, so this may have happened, but I'm not sure, and he was like, Okay, calm down, I'm sure it's gonna be fine.

I'm gonna call the executives.

I'll get back to you.

Meanwhile, I had to like get on a train and high tail it back to hell Town, upstate New York, finished shooting this movie that I wore a trash bag dress in and I don't hear from him for a full week, during which I'm like, yeah, that face exactly.

I'm I'm like like, don't you how did you not?

Did you to call him and call him?

And Gallo yeah, and he like I would call him, but he was like, I haven't heard from them, and I was like, oh my god.

So obviously I'm fired, Like for sure, no question, I'm fired, But like, beyond that, they're going to tell everybody I'm a drug addict.

They're going to tell everybody not to work with me, Like I'm fucked.

So then after a week of just full spiral, he calls me, and he's like, the reason it took them so long to get back to us is that they were amending your contract.

They loved what you did so much at the table read that they want to make you a series regular because initially the show was written for three girls, not four, and they were like, they want to make you the fourth girl.

Oh that's so fucking awesome.

I mean, who knows what happened during that table read.

Maybe that's how you should go into all table reads truly.

I'm like, do I just take Nike will always?

You should just get like a vaccine the day you have to go it.

Yeah, yeah, Jesse, I just got my polio booster vaccine yesterday since there's polio going around all all of a sudden again.

And they were like, oh, you might be sick for the next few days.

And I was like, oh, that's what you're describing.

I mean, basically I could have symptoms.

I don't have them, but because I'm a fucking horse.

But oh, that's really funny.

Yeah.

And so what was it like, how was it?

How was it?

What was it like working with Lena and the other girls.

It was just a dream, like that whole we shot that show all told from like shooting the pilot to our last episode was seven years.

I spent my twenties shooting that show.

I like the number seven as a time of work.

I feel like the reason that there's a phrase of seven year itch because it's so true, Like seven years is a great amount of time to spend in a relationship on a job, Like seven years is a good like chunk, and it's it doesn't take away like it's a great addition.

And it doesn't.

It's not too long when you like when you have a good experience with something.

It's just the perfect amount of time.

I think there's something about the number seven.

It's a good about it.

Okay, so we're going to take a break.

We'll take a break right now, and we'll be right back with Zasha Mabbot.

This week.

We're looking for folks to write in.

If you're in the middle of a career transition, and especially if you've just been fired, please write into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com.

And we're back with Zasha Mabbott.

Okay, So, this book is filled with lots of stories.

Some are really sad, some are really sweet, and some are really moving.

And some are really really funny.

Yes, I would say this book.

I think this book does make you funny.

That's the title of the book.

Does this make me funny?

I think you're already funny.

So it was good that you put it down on paper.

How did you decide to write this right now?

So it wasn't my decision.

When I pitched that book my first Popsicle, the woman who ended up becoming my editor at Penguins, woman Meg Letter, who's amazing, had asked if I would consider doing a two book deal and doing Popsicle Verse, but then and following it up with the book of essays.

And this was like.

Five years ago at this point, maybe more.

That's a very interesting way for the publishing industry to work before you've proven yourself, to give you offer you a two book deal.

Though, Well, I think she'd read my essays in Glamor, and so I think she was like, Oh, I've since learned that anthologies are very hard.

They're hard for people to put together, they're hard for people to sell.

I was like, what could be cooler than like a bunch of amazing people all in the same place writing their stories.

But I guess I'm sort of maybe alone in that or I'm not that's not the popular thought.

So she kind of agreed to do my anthology essay idea, but really what she had wanted was this book of essays, and I was super shocked that she asked for that.

I was like, I mean, I write this column for Glamor.

Who wants to read a full book of my essays?

But I said yes because I'm an actor and I'll say yes to any job anyone wants to give me that they pay me money for pretty much.

I just like didn't think it would ever actually happen, Like I think in my brain, I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm saying yes to this, but we're going to do this anthology and then like I don't know, but they'll probably forget about this one, or they'll like change their mind or something.

And it takes so long to write and publish a book.

I mean, you know, it's like it takes like seven thousand years from the moment procise.

It could only be described as tedious and annoying because you are so creative, you feel like you're putting so much in and then what follows all the creative bursts and blasts and all of this like Catharsis and sharing is so tedious the book.

You know, once they put the book actually together, it's just like one task after another that you're like, way to take the fucking fun out of this.

By the time we were talking about what kind of font like the numbers would be next to that, I was just like, I'm out, Just I don't care.

You could do it my last book.

For the cover.

I was like, can you just find a fucking shot that matches what we're doing?

Like, do we really need to do a photo shoot for this cover?

They're like, most people get excited about this.

I'm like, not me.

I'm not excited to shoot another book cover.

That was the one thing that I really held Firman, though I knew that I wanted my buddy Danny Sangre to design the cover.

He's an incredible filmmaker, he'sil's an amazing visual artist, and he is one of my dearest friends and knows me so well.

I just have to be like, Danny, can you do my cover?

And he'll make it perfect.

And they kept sending me these options that were like great, but just I was like no, and they made me jump through so many because I now know they like to keep it internal, and I just was like, every time they would send me an email with options, I would write back, can Danny please design my cover?

And they finally said yes, But we did Popsicle.

I loved doing it because I wrote one essay and then I just got it to edit a bunch of other brilliant people's work and by edit basically be like, thanks so much, it looks great.

So when we when that came out, I was like, Okay, Meg, my editor, can we do another one of these?

And she was like, well, no, because now you have to write your book.

And I was like, right, but can we do another one of these?

And I'll do that after And she was like no, because you're contractually obligated to write this book first.

Okay, we're going to take a couple of callers and give them advice life advice, Sasha, Okay, that's what we do here, Dear Chelsea.

Yeah, let's do it.

Nothing better than an outside perspective.

What do we got, Catherine.

Well, our first caller is Alex.

He says, Dear Chelsea.

I'm a thirty six year old gay guy and I am chronically online.

I have a good full time job, and most people that know me hold me in high esteem.

But I I'm absolutely obsessed with Instagram and threats.

Mostly.

I always get into fights in the comments, especially about politics.

I always think I have the best points to make, and often maybe I do, But I know that my comments are unlikely to really result in epiphanies where mega people will change their ways.

I figured, since I don't argue with family or friends, what's the harm.

But I comment so often that on popular pages, my friends will see what I've written, and everyone knows how chronically online and combat if I am help Alex.

Hi, Alex Hey, Chelsea Hi, this is our special guest Sasha Mammot today.

Oh hey, hey, hey listen.

Hi.

As fun and as addicting as social media it can be, well addicting it is, and as fun as it can be, it is not good for your brain.

You are not feeding your brain when you are on social media.

So you need to start detoxing.

And by detoxing, I mean you need to like you can start small.

You can start with an hour a day that you turn your phone off and put it somewhere.

Just put it away somewhere when you get home.

From work or your most vulnerable time, wherever you feel it the most.

But you have to understand, like there are so many articles if you just google what does social media do to your brain?

You can read it's going to make you sick.

You can't spend that much time a online looking at other people's lives is not healthy.

You need to fucking read a book.

That's what you need to be doing, and.

You need to You need to get into the habit of when you don't have anything to do that you're reading a book because you're addicted.

You have an addiction and now you have to detox from your addiction.

Healthy but ours I.

Know, I know, but it's true.

It's like it's not good for us.

And listen, we all are dealing with this.

You're not alone.

But you can take steps like don't you want to be a more well rounded person?

You don't want to just be somebody who's arguing online and are trying to make brilliant points online to what availed?

Like what is that going to get you?

What does it give you?

It gives me some satisfaction when I win.

How do you How does winning What does winning look like?

Winning to me looks like when the other person maybe ends up blocking me because in my head, they've like decided that they cannot argue my valid points anymore.

Okay, Like, you know, one of my most passionate things is about Chicago.

I live in Chicago, and like people are calling it a hell hole and all this crazy stuff.

And this guy was just going in on me, like a lot of people because of the way I look.

They're like, you must live in a suburb or like on the North Side or something, and I don't, And like this person was going in on me.

And then I was like, I told him where I lived and like where I have lived and the things that are great about where I live, and then he blocked me, and so I was, I mean, it gives me a lot of satisfaction that I won that argument and.

Win the argument.

Winning the argument would have been him going, wow, you brought up so many you raised so many great points about Chicago, and I was misinformed that would be a win.

Changing someone's mind would be a win.

Having someone block you is not a win.

So don't tell people online that you're arguing with where you live, like a first rule, just.

To say that maybe, Yeah, Sasha, how do you handle your relationship with social media.

It's very tough because I have to be on it for work.

It sadly is now like a part of the job.

But I find it's so true if I don't go on it, or I only go on it for a specific amount of time to a specific end, it makes me feel so much better if I spend multiple days.

Not because the problem is it's not real, but society and our brains keep telling us that it is.

But it's not, and it's creating these like very weird parasocial dynamics that aren't actually based in reality.

So it's like and it is absolutely an addiction.

I mean, it's a dopamine hit one thousand.

Percent, absolutely absolutely, and we're all guilty of it.

So just like you know, you're living in a world where everyone is dealing with this, so you should get some comfort from that, but you should also be worried about your brain health, you know what I mean, Because no one's coming to save you.

You have to take care of yourself.

You have to make the moves to make sure that you are having like a healthier relationship with social media and also find some other things to do that prevent you from being online.

Go fucking play tennis, Go play basketball, go do yoga, whatever is interesting to you.

Commit to these things with the intention of breaking away from social media, so it is not an addiction.

Set the timer they give you those timers.

Okay, you've spent an hour on social media today.

You can choose to ignore it.

But you have to be in.

Control of yourself to exercise your willingness to.

Change, you know what I mean.

You have to have a willingness, and then you have to have a follow through.

And I think follow through is pretty much the most important thing in life is following through.

You're calling because you know you have a problem.

You're not calling to hear me tell you, Oh my god, I love it.

Keep doing it?

Are you No?

I'm not right.

So you know you have a problem.

You've admitted it.

Great.

Those are the first two major steps.

Now you could take some steps to just spend less time.

You don't have to quit, just spend less time and stop arguing with people.

Don't tell people where you live.

That's all just kind of like jerking off into a fucking wall, do you know what I mean?

Just what is the point?

You know?

Go read?

Go read Anna KARENAA, go read a book that's going to make you think.

Zasha just wrote a great book of essays called does This Make Me Funny?

Start reading books that is going to add to your brain health way more than social media.

And that's a fucking doctor's order.

Okay, okay, okay, I understand, okay.

Okay, keep us posted, check back in in a month, and let us know how you're doing.

Even if you failed miserably, we want to know about it.

Okay, sounds good.

I think I'll start by trying to put a separation like.

Right after work.

Like unfortunately work requires me to use a smartphone now too, and so that'll be a good separation from work to life.

And I'll start there.

And just look at and write it down, write it down every night, look at how many hours you spent on your phone.

And you know, I know sometimes you're on your phone for work and not social media, but there's a differentiation there.

They show you.

They break it up, so like, look at that amount of hours and then every day work on decreasing that amount of hours.

Yeah.

I like what you said about like putting something in its place, like going out, so doing something real, like Sasha said, like something real that's in the real world.

You can also log that and be like today I did an hour, I took a walk, or I did you know.

The thing is, yeah, and maybe if I want a crusade for the world, I should do something real and volunteer instead.

Yes, right, exactly, that's right.

That's what Mitch Album said.

We just had Mitch Album on the writer.

You've probably never heard of him because you're too busy online all that time.

He's written so many beautiful books, and he said he when he wakes up in the morning, he just starts to write immediately, without looking at the news, without looking at He doesn't want anything in his head other than fresh ideas.

And so if you think about all that noise that you're putting, you're allowing and you're welcoming into your brain, that could be re engineered to have so much more and so and just have a fuller life.

Yeah, Okay, this is helpful.

Okay, good marching orders, good luck.

Thanks, Yes, Chelsea, can I say one thing to you.

I've been a really big fan of you for a long time, and I just think that you're a model of someone that's sown personal growth, that's obvious while preserving your authenticity.

I really appreciate it.

Oh I love that.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Okay, bye, bye bye.

I love yelling at my fans, you know a lot of them.

That's what they're asking me.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have come on if he if he didn't want that, right right.

It's like a kid sort of wanting to get caught.

Yeah.

Yes, Well, our next caller is John So John says, Dear Chelsea, your stand up and books have gotten me through some really rough times in my life, so I thought it would be fitting for me to reach out to you about an issue I'm having with my wedding guest list.

I'm a gay man and my partner and I have been together for five years.

This is both of our first ever relationships, which also led us to coming out to our family members.

Although most of my family was highly supportive, my mother was.

Not.

To put it mildly, my mother and I have never really had a healthy relationship.

She gave me up to be raised by my grandparents when I was in the fifth grade.

We remained cordial for the most part for the sake of my grandparents, but this all changed in twenty eighteen, when a disagreement between my grandparents and my mother resulted in a significant family rupture in which I ultimately sided with my grandparents.

During my coming out year, my grandparents encouraged me to have a conversation with my mother, which I was hesitant about but agreed to.

As predicted, the common versation went horribly.

She was not accepting of as she put it, my life choices sidebar.

Some of my life choices include that I am the first college graduate in my family, a licensed psychotherapist soon to be a psychologist, and caring partner.

So I think it turned out pretty well despite the trauma that comes along with being abandoned by a parent.

Anyway, my mother found out about the engagement and has been speaking to my grandmother about it, who has been slightly pressuring me to invite her to the wedding.

It's important for me to be surrounded by people who have been supportive of my relationship.

However, I don't want my grandparents to be upset that my mother wasn't invited, since she has a history of taking things out on them when she's upset with me, and I don't know if I'll regret not inviting her, which is probably influenced by my inner child still longing for his mother.

My partner and I are getting ready to send out Save the Dates next month, and I'm really on the fence about whether or not to invite her.

I could really use her unfiltered and unbiased feedback.

John.

Hi, John, hellou Hi, This is Zasha Mammett.

She's our special guest today.

By John.

Hello.

Nice to meet too, too.

Hi.

Well, listen, first of all, congratulations on having your fucking shit together.

Okay, you have your shit together, and if your mother won't tell you, I will.

You are a fucking success.

And I love when a psychotherapist calls here for advice, So I mean, that's always very entertaining.

Have you had conversations with your mother recently about your relationship or about, like, you know, the seriousness of your relationship.

Does she know your partner.

She met him once a couple years ago.

We went to drop off Christmas presents there and he is with me, but she said high to him and then ignored him the rest of the time we were there.

She knows we're engaged, she knows we're getting married, but she doesn't really talk about him to me whenever we talk she avoids that.

Okay, do you think it would be worthwhile to have a conversation with her to see where she stands with regard to your relationship If she understands that you're in love, that you're marrying a partner, that you guys are intending to be together for the rest of your lives.

Do you I think that's a worthwhile endeavor for you?

Ideally it would be I struggle with trusting what her reaction is going to be, and usually in conversations like those, I walk away feeling pretty shitty, So I don't want to feel that way.

Yeah, okay, well, yes, you can't control what she's going to say, obviously, but if you, in any way, shape or form, are not feeling like you're going to have a safe experience at your wedding emotionally, then your mother isn't welcome there, and you can't take care of your grandparents' feelings either, You know what I mean?

This is about you, and this is about.

Your partnership with your husband and what you guys are building together, and building it on a foundation of strength rather than negativity would be the starting point, right And I think you probably know well enough that if you can't rely on her to be supportive and to be there for the right reasons, then it's not just about inviting her so that your grandparents feel better.

You're saving them some trouble too.

Like she'll take it out on them, is what I gather.

If she doesn't get invited, right, take it out?

Yeah, absolutely so it might be worthwhile just to send her an email and let her know why she's not invited, you know, and if she really or if you want to do it prematurely, like if you want to reach out to her via email, because sometimes it's better to write these things instead of say them out loud, because you your emotions will get the better of you to write down and say, listen, this is what I'm embarking on.

I'm about to spend the rest of my life with the man that I love, and we've been you know, you've never really exhibited any support for this relationship or shown any interest in him, So I'm unclear as to how to proceed about including you in the wedding.

Is this something you think that you would want to be a part of.

Do you think that you can show up for me and be one hundred percent supportive, because that's all I want on that day, and leave it in her court and see how she comes back to you.

And if she comes back to you in any way that makes you feel ick or weird or nervous or you're emotionally not taken care of, then that's your answer.

And you don't have to have the conversation with her.

And you can easily explain to your grandparents that you did that you could see see them or not see see them.

Don't involve them when it's not necessary.

They're probably old and tired.

Zasha, what do you think I mean?

I'm so sorry that you're in this position.

It's truly terrible, and it's it's such a bummer because you're the child here and this shouldn't have to be your responsibility.

But sadly, that's just sometimes life.

But you know, my husband and I had some tricky family stuff when we were getting married, some tricky friends stuff, and we really sat down and said, this is a day to celebrate our love.

This is the day that's supposed to kick off the rest of our lives.

And we decided the only people that were allowed to be at our wedding were people who we felt like we either saw or talked to every week.

They were people that made us feel happy and good and safe, and you know, we would have these sort of like You can get very political when you're planning a wedding, right you start to be like, well, by this person, we have to bet, and you're like, you know what this wedding is for us.

This wedding is about us saying I love you in front of I love you forever, in front of our community.

And the only people that we want there are those who are going to elevate that love.

And that was our hard line, and it didn't always make the decision to maybe not invite some people easy, but I think at the end of the day, it was the right choice because it truly did feel like a joy love bubble.

And I think Chelsea's right, this is your day and everyone who's there should be in support of that union.

And it's really up to your mom whether or not she can do that.

But if she can't, I don't think it's your responsibility to make her and your grandparents feel better by inviting her.

I appreciate that both of your advice is amazing.

Sounds similar to some of the advice I would give one of my clients, but I think I need to practice what I appreciate here a little bit more.

Yeah, I think you have from this call mission to say no.

You know, it's sometimes it's hardest for us to give ourselves permission, and you definitely have that here.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

And just remember, you know, when you make a decision like this, either way you go, then that becomes the decision.

You know, like if you decide not to include your mom, I don't know that that's something that's necessarily going to weigh on you personally for moths, you know, for the time that's remaining until the wedding.

It might be like, oh, okay, that's off my plate, like I've made a decision.

Or conversely, to say I'm including her, it's like, okay, I've accepted that she's going to come.

Like, whatever decision you go with, it's fine.

But I think that you can write that letter an email and put it in writing so that she has time to read it reflect on it.

You know, it can't be it's not going to be argumentative.

It's going to come from a place of love and self protection.

I will definitely do that.

I don't have to circle back and update you folks, Yes.

Definitely please do all right, thank you John.

Thanks John, have so much fun at your congratulations.

Thank you, thank you.

I Okay, well we'll take a break and we'll be right back to wrap up with Sasha.

Okay, and we're back with Sasha Mammut, who wrote this great little book called Does This Make Me Funny.

It's a book of essays, her personal essays, and it's filled with well, it's filled with everything you could want out of a book, quite frankly.

So thank you Sasha for being here today.

I wish you the best luck with this book.

And I'm just so happy you're healthy and bouncing around the world and you're in love with your hus You've been married for thirteen years now, right something like.

That, married together thirteen married in October for nine Yeah, long time.

Wow.

Good for you.

And no children not yet?

No, okay, okay, well maybe that's a good thing.

Okay, So.

Have a great day, Love you, honey, Sesha, Bye bye bye.

I just announced all my tour day.

They just went on sale this week.

It's called The High and Mighty Tour.

I will be starting in February of next year, so I will be touring from February through June.

I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these.

So go get your tickets now if you want good seats and you want to come see me perform.

I will be on the high and mighty toour Do.

You want advice from Chelsea?

Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

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