Intro and Outro: Hello and welcome to the Microbiome Medics Podcast.

I'm Dr.

Siobhan McCormack.

Intro and Outro: And I'm Dr.

Sheena Fraser, and we're your co-hosts.

We are both GPs and lifestyle Intro and Outro: medics with a shared passion for microbiome science.

Intro and Outro: We'll be translating the evidence and packaging it into actionable, Intro and Outro: bite-sized chunks so that you could harness the power of the microbiome to improve Intro and Outro: your own health and that of your patients.

Sheena: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Microbiomedics podcast.

Sheena: I'm Dr Sheena Fraser and today I'm joined by Aisley who's a nutritionist and Sheena: dietitian and a research fellow in microbiome science and she's practicing in Rotterdam currently.

Sheena: We met at a conference and what interests me about Aisley is that she's really Sheena: interested in the microbiome of the athlete.

Sheena: So this is an area that's a little bit close to my heart.

Sheena: I have a daughter who's a triathlete, and so I'm always trying to figure out Sheena: how to enhance her gut microbiome and trying to figure out whether it actually Sheena: plays a role in the sport that she's doing.

Sheena: So I'm going to hopefully pick Aisley's brains Sheena: today and find out a little bit more so Aisley lovely to see you again and let Sheena: me know a little bit more about you the listeners will want to know your background Sheena: and why you've got an interest in this subject so give us a little bit of history of.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Course of course thank you so much for your invitation first yeah I'm really Asli Devrim Lanpir: interested in gut microbiome since my During my PhD years, because I'm a sports Asli Devrim Lanpir: dietitian, I've been practicing with athletes, Asli Devrim Lanpir: endurance athletes in particular, for about like 10 years now.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And most of the time, they are asking so many questions about their gut health.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Sometimes they don't even know what's causing it.

And they are doing really Asli Devrim Lanpir: tough exercises.

So what I try to do is try to tailor their nutritional intake Asli Devrim Lanpir: based on their training schedules, as well as their off-season.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I just aim to improve their performance and gut microbiome help.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's quite interesting, fascinating topic for me.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And I'm just trying to help them to improve their performance and well-being at that topic.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And I am a research fellow at Dublin City University at that moment.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, doing a lot of scientific stuff, plus having all the experiences, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like practical experiences, helped me to discover, Asli Devrim Lanpir: try to identify the problems and try to find, suggest some solution for my athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, happy to be here and answer your questions.

Sheena: Fantastic.

So, Izzy, what research are you doing at Dublin?

Sheena: Give us a wee history of the type of research you've been involved in.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Of course.

Well, in Dublin, I try to identify, is there anything, Asli Devrim Lanpir: do you know anything about low energy availability?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Of course, you may know or at least quite experiencing, they're not getting Asli Devrim Lanpir: enough energy with their nutrition.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So they're doing hard training, intense, prolonged training, Asli Devrim Lanpir: and they're not supporting around their training schedules with right nutritional intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So one of these main problems causing a lot of like the systematic body problem, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like GI problem, neurologic system problem, and we are calling this relative Asli Devrim Lanpir: energy deficiency syndrome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's why I'm interested in, I'm working with masters in endurance athletes, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like most of them higher than, like the older than 40 years old.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So my aim is to understand whether they are getting enough energy.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we are running some kind of like the trials to understand their energy intake Asli Devrim Lanpir: and how we can solve if they have experiencing any problems regarding that.

Sheena: Okay, and are you relating that to the microbiome and how the microbiome responds Sheena: to different athletic endurance techniques?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, right now, at that moment, we are not looking for anything specific for Asli Devrim Lanpir: the gut microbiome, to be honest.

But during my PhD, we did this.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We just checked my athletes.

I was still working with endurance athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, we kind of identified gut microbiome-associated problems like diarrhea, Asli Devrim Lanpir: constipation, bloating, gas, around their exercise training programs.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we try to adjust their nutritional intake and apply some type of probiotics Asli Devrim Lanpir: to see whether they are really effective for them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And we try to adjust their dietary intake.

And after adjusting their dietary Asli Devrim Lanpir: intake, we see some improvement that was really fascinating for us.

Sheena: And so is that improvement in Sheena: the gut microbiome or is that improvement in their performance?

or is it.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Both i would say both because we just said Asli Devrim Lanpir: yes because they like me it's not only they Asli Devrim Lanpir: improving your gut microbiome health because it's all Asli Devrim Lanpir: connected together if you ask me Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the years ago before 19th centuries i would say you know gut microbiome Asli Devrim Lanpir: your gut just for digestive system and it will help you to absorb a nutrients Asli Devrim Lanpir: that will be all but right now what we know is it's kind of connect everywhere, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like your brain, like your muscles.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's kind of like crossover between the organs kind of help to improve your performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, we have a recent study saying that there's a close link between Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut and muscles so that if you improve your gut microbiome health, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you kind of boost your energy metabolism and that will help you to improve your Asli Devrim Lanpir: performance as an athlete so isn't that perfect that's.

Sheena: Amazing isn't it and and i was going to say to you why should athletes um care Sheena: about their gut microbiome but that's partly answered it why why else should they care.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So well they are thinking that like as an athlete they are doing perfect stuff Asli Devrim Lanpir: about their trainings and they are scheduling everything before that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But in terms of nutrition, they're kind of underestimating its value.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So if they're not supporting enough in terms of like fueling, Asli Devrim Lanpir: recovery, everything about nutrition, their gut microbiome also affected by that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So for example, 70% of our immune system rely on our gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And if you don't have healthy gut microbiome, that means you are not really...

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Have healthy immune defense to fight for you during these high intensity periods.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it's not only affect your performance, but also affect your immunity and Asli Devrim Lanpir: also affect your health, well-being, everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So they have to be super careful if it's all about gut microbiome health.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That means everything for them.

Sheena: Yeah, I agree with you, Izzy, because it's not just, Sheena: you know when we're talking about the gut microbiome it's Sheena: not just the health of the gut itself and Sheena: and all those digestive symptoms you're absolutely spot Sheena: on there is this link between the gut and Sheena: all of the organs in the in the body and and Sheena: the health of those organs depends on a Sheena: healthy gut microbiome and so you're right so we're Sheena: seeing the this impact on the immune system and we're Sheena: also seeing things like the you know the gut lung access you Sheena: know how important are lungs to athletes they're so Sheena: important um so if you have a healthy Sheena: gut mac biome it helps to keep uh the levels of inflammation in your lungs low Sheena: which improves your lung function um and indeed um you know looking at other Sheena: other um organs in the human body you know we want good liver function We want good kidney function.

Sheena: All of these things in an athlete, especially when you're competing at a high Sheena: level, everything should be working as optimally as possible.

Sheena: And the gut microbiome is a way of optimizing all of that.

Sheena: So it's, it is really, really interesting.

Um, so, so let's, Sheena: what about exercise itself?

Sheena: Because a lot of athletes will say, well, you know, actually exercising is really Sheena: good for your gut microbiome.

Sheena: Um, so do you know what exercise does to the gut microbiome and, and how it benefits it?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, like actually really exercise itself, other Asli Devrim Lanpir: than like regardless of nutrient intake itself Asli Devrim Lanpir: has huge beneficial impact on Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut microbiome because it's kind of help help Asli Devrim Lanpir: you to regulate rebuild and kind Asli Devrim Lanpir: of support beneficial gut bacteria in Asli Devrim Lanpir: your gut and also it's kind of improve itself just Asli Devrim Lanpir: it's it helps to improve your immune system Asli Devrim Lanpir: immune function by regulating what Asli Devrim Lanpir: we call is like gut associated lymphoid tissue Asli Devrim Lanpir: so it's kind of affect every single Asli Devrim Lanpir: tissue in the gut microbiome to use that Asli Devrim Lanpir: because we like exercise let's say we are just kind of categorized this as the Asli Devrim Lanpir: kind of hormetic stressor for your gut that means it's kind of create a manageable Asli Devrim Lanpir: level of stress for your gut and over time by the time you're doing all the exercise, Asli Devrim Lanpir: your body kind of adjusts everything and that makes your gut straighten and Asli Devrim Lanpir: also improve by the time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And it's kind of helpful for your gut health.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So exercise itself is a really huge beneficial effect.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But what is interesting, exercise is really great, but it depends on also your Asli Devrim Lanpir: body type, body composition, the exercise severity or your intensity and duration.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, let's say you're a lean individual.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So your body tends to.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: React better when you apply exercise compared to obese or overweight adults.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Or, for example, let's say you are doing longer duration exercise.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That also kind of shifts your gut microbiome to beneficial.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We kind of realize the shift better, quite better compared to shorter distance, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the shorter duration exercise.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it depends on a lot of factors, but that exercise itself kind of helpful for your health.

Sheena: So what would you say is the most beneficial type of exercise then for your gut microbiome?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Kind of say moderate level.

Moderate level, kind of manageable level of the Asli Devrim Lanpir: stress, not the extreme kind of stuff.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So moderate level is quite all right.

Like the longer duration, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the lower to moderate intensity would be Asli Devrim Lanpir: the best for your gut health because it's kind of not force Asli Devrim Lanpir: your gut microbiome it's just kind of force Asli Devrim Lanpir: a tiny bit that you can just adjust everything but we kind of love this stress Asli Devrim Lanpir: they apply this stress to our guts that's kind of how our body kind of adapts Asli Devrim Lanpir: everything but if it's too much your body kind of struggle how to manage everything Asli Devrim Lanpir: after all so that will be nice so.

Sheena: So that's quite interesting isn't it Because obviously for the sort of average Sheena: person who's just keeping themselves fit, you know, doing a bit of exercise Sheena: every day, that's really good news.

Sheena: But, you know, when it comes to our athletes, you know, they're definitely pushing Sheena: themselves that bit more.

Sheena: So does that then mean that they're more at risk of damage to their gut microbiome?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Well, I wish I can answer this saying no, but yes, because the answer is yes, Asli Devrim Lanpir: because you are not creating moderate manageable level of stress.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you are, for example, you are an endurance runner, you are preparing for Asli Devrim Lanpir: a race, so that's probably you're pushing your limits quite a bit, Asli Devrim Lanpir: and it's far beyond to moderate level.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You are doing intense, longer-duration exercise.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's kind of create not like the wanted thing for your gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What I mean is it's kind of pushing your gut microbiome's limit as well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also, your body kind of don't know how to endure all the stress, Asli Devrim Lanpir: all the level of stress.

So hear me out.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: This is the most important part, I guess, probably.

if you are applying intense.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Hydration like extreme exercise plus Asli Devrim Lanpir: you are if you are not getting enough nutrition and Asli Devrim Lanpir: you are not getting the right composition in terms of nutrition for example Asli Devrim Lanpir: getting low fiber diet not getting any fermented food and you're getting saturated Asli Devrim Lanpir: food you are going for western style diets that kind of worsen the symptoms Asli Devrim Lanpir: and it's kind of cold we are calling this like, Asli Devrim Lanpir: Leaky gut, which we are experiencing in athletes quite often, Asli Devrim Lanpir: especially if they are doing any endurance-based sports.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what we aim to do is try to strengthen their nutritional intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We try to develop some strategy to fight this old stress so that it can be manageable for our gut health.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's the most important part because most of the time people just say, Asli Devrim Lanpir: oh no i'm taking all the nutrition just to Asli Devrim Lanpir: support my performance now you just want to be healthy if you want to be healthy Asli Devrim Lanpir: and you want to stay healthy and longevity you know this that's the most important Asli Devrim Lanpir: part of the all the scientific subject at that moment you have to make sure Asli Devrim Lanpir: that you are taking care of your gut health well.

Sheena: So, that's the thing about athletes.

So, there's a lot about the athlete that Sheena: kind of increases stress on the microbiome, isn't there?

Sheena: So, for example, a typical athlete will have quite a significant training regime.

Sheena: So a lot of hours of training, which is pretty rigorous on the body.

Sheena: And during that training regime, Sheena: they'll probably be consuming quite high sugars to keep them going.

Sheena: So, you know, a lot of glucose products and sugary products.

Sheena: And glucose and sugar is quite pro-inflammatory for the gut and increases the Sheena: amount of sort of more pathogenic strains of bacteria whilst discouraging the Sheena: sort of beneficial strains of bacteria.

Sheena: So I think it can disrupt the gut microbiome in that way.

Sheena: But also with you talking about the stress that athletes are under.

Sheena: You know, a lot of endurance sports or even just a lot of sports where you're Sheena: pushing your body, you get big surges in cortisols and the stress hormones, don't you?

Sheena: And that can then create a more inflammatory picture in your gut as well because Sheena: you get more of the pro-inflammatory bacteria and fewer of the other ones.

Sheena: And again, you get that stimulation of the sugar metabolism and puts you into Sheena: some degree of metabolic dysfunction.

Sheena: Now, our athletes can cope with that because our athletes have incredible mitochondrial Sheena: function and they're able to metabolize sugar very, very efficiently.

Sheena: And so that's why they don't get fat and they don't, you know, Sheena: end up with diabetes until they stop training.

Sheena: And then if they don't reduce their carbs at that stage, then they quite often Sheena: do develop diabetes, actually.

Yeah.

Sheena: But all of this then puts a lot of stress.

And then in addition, Sheena: competing is a very, very stressful thing.

Sheena: So that can, you know, just the feelings of stress and, you know, Sheena: all that emotional dysregulation around competitions and even the night before Sheena: is damaging for your gut mic biome.

Sheena: And then depending on your sport, you know, you may also be disrupting things like your sleep.

Sheena: So if you're a swimmer for example Sheena: and you're training early early morning and you're Sheena: not getting to bed early enough then you could be suffering Sheena: from sleep deprivation and again that's another Sheena: thing that can stimulate more stress hormones increase more of the harmful bacteria Sheena: in your gut and damage the really beneficial microbes in there as well as having Sheena: an impact on your healing and your ability to recover.

Sheena: So there's quite a lot of hits on our athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, exactly.

Sheena: And so I'm really interested in this because I think, you know, how do we get this right?

Sheena: How do we, you know, make sure that our athletes are supported so that they Sheena: can still do all of this training and they can still compete.

Sheena: But we try to protect them as Sheena: much as we can from the harmful impacts of damaging their gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, you mentioned everything, almost everything about all the problematic issues Asli Devrim Lanpir: which they are experiencing quite often.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And they are all the time asking us how to solve this problem Because sometimes Asli Devrim Lanpir: it's not even related to nutrition.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Like you said, sleep.

I have a lot of study on sleep and endurance athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What we realize that, well, right now what science says, we have really great Asli Devrim Lanpir: recent papers saying that you have to take enough sleep, at least seven to nine Asli Devrim Lanpir: hours per night to support healthy gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But when we look at our athletes, they're not getting enough.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're not even sleeping seven Asli Devrim Lanpir: hours.

So that's one of the main problems because they have to do it.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, you said your girl is a triathlete, so you're super familiar with Asli Devrim Lanpir: they have to train maybe two or three times a day.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So she has to wake up earlier than expected.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's kind of quite challenging.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So as a dietitian point of view, what we try to do is to try to.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Adjust their nutritional intakes, like based on their training schedules.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we are just adjusting everything step by step.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But what I aim to do is just looking at the big picture.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So try to identify the main points in terms of micronutrient intakes, Asli Devrim Lanpir: in terms of like carbohydrates, proteins, and fat intakes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I'm working mostly with endurance athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So my main point is if they are getting let's say Asli Devrim Lanpir: if they are getting enough energy first thing first Asli Devrim Lanpir: i'm just setting all the energy intake like calculating Asli Devrim Lanpir: everything then i'm just focusing on carbohydrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: intake so as you say we have Asli Devrim Lanpir: to increase the carbohydrate quality to support Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut microbiome health so how we can achieve this so so we have to add something Asli Devrim Lanpir: like high fiber foods like full grain sourdough bread like the a lot of we have Asli Devrim Lanpir: they tend to eat for example if they are.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Not applying an adjusted nutrition Asli Devrim Lanpir: protocol they tend to eat everything they like pasta Asli Devrim Lanpir: they are just going for pasta or just spreading like Asli Devrim Lanpir: the saturated fat I would say Asli Devrim Lanpir: I would call it just spreading fat on Asli Devrim Lanpir: bread and they are consuming just like that and it's Asli Devrim Lanpir: not enough for them so we try to we Asli Devrim Lanpir: encourage them to adjust the carbohydrate intake and Asli Devrim Lanpir: try to encourage them getting at Asli Devrim Lanpir: least 25 gram fiber per Asli Devrim Lanpir: day to support their gut microbiome because all the beneficial bacteria just Asli Devrim Lanpir: waiting for them to consume some fiber to support them because that's their Asli Devrim Lanpir: food they're just waiting for Asli Devrim Lanpir: it so before before if we are not getting enough fiber, that's the main.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Like the harmful thing for our gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And second part is, Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you are getting proteins, if you are thinking of proteins, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like, yeah, we have really good plant-based protein sources, Asli Devrim Lanpir: which also include high fibers.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So I tend to add, like, at least two or three portions per week, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the plant-based protein, including, like, the lentils, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like, chickpeas, to support their gut microbiome and protein intake as well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that may sound like the smallest changes, but it's really helpful for their gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So another thing in terms of fat intake, Asli Devrim Lanpir: I tend to limit their saturated fat intake during all the nutrition periodization Asli Devrim Lanpir: and try to encourage them to consume mono or polyunsaturated fats like olive oil, like mud seeds.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's that will help them to consume like the healthy fats during their training period.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also that will be also helpful for their gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And that's the main macronutrient part.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Other than that, they have to be super careful about hydration because hydration Asli Devrim Lanpir: is one of the most important part about gut health and performance.

They're all the time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Right now, we are experiencing a lot of global health issues.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And, you know, the temperatures has been increasing over time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And during, for example, a couple of years ago, I have many athletes attending Berlin Marathon.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And Berlin, all the time, it was super chilly outside and they were feeling Asli Devrim Lanpir: super comfortable while they're running.

But right now, this year and last year.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're all the time complaining about the temperature.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It was quite high.

Even Berlin, even in Berlin, it's Germany.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So the temperature, the environment condition, everything just kind of boosts Asli Devrim Lanpir: your body and like they like trigger your body and you are losing fluid from Asli Devrim Lanpir: your body through threats.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what you have to do is you have to, if you are doing exercise, Asli Devrim Lanpir: and like you are racing in a high temperature, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you have to adjust your hydration strategy beforehand so that you may just provide Asli Devrim Lanpir: enough fluid for your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that will help your body to prevent every leaky gut related issues.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It will just support your gut barrier.

so that will be really helpful to like Asli Devrim Lanpir: for your performance so this is another this will be another part in terms of nutrition point of view.

Sheena: Yeah so let's go back a little bit let's go back Sheena: to the fiber um because um what Sheena: you you might have a counter argument from your athletes that Sheena: when they're performing if they eat too much Sheena: fiber then it means that they obviously the Sheena: side effect from eating fiber is that you move your bowels more frequently and Sheena: that can be an issue for people doing longer Sheena: um competitions um and Sheena: you know um there was a recent um triathlete Sheena: i think that had to move their bowels in the middle of a you know a competition Sheena: it's really difficult for for athletes um in these kind of competitions um so Sheena: is there a tip for that because um because i I had this argument with my husband Sheena: recently because he does ultramarathons.

Sheena: And he was saying, oh, you know, I really need to go sort of low fiber on the Sheena: run up to this so that I don't need to move my bowels in the middle of the race.

Sheena: And I was like, well, that actually means that you're putting your gut into Sheena: an unhealthy position before going through quite a stressful race.

Sheena: And to me that's counteractive because Sheena: that's going to damage your gut microbiome all the more Sheena: and so although it's inconvenient it's probably better to move your pals in Sheena: the middle of the race then and and take that hit um rather than kind of um Sheena: just trying to get yourself into that constipated state um what what do you Sheena: think on that and what what would your advice be.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's a really big question.

It has been a big question for many, many years.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we just discussed this with this Asli Devrim Lanpir: professor and every single one because we really can't decide which one is the Asli Devrim Lanpir: worst in terms of not applying any carbohydrate because you cannot apply high Asli Devrim Lanpir: fiber containing carb sources during training.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it will really, you will end up going toilet instead of going to the finish lane.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So I kind of saw this like quite often.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So they kind of, it's kind of challenging for their bodies.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what we aim to do is, well, if they are doing any ultra marathon or the really Asli Devrim Lanpir: marathon, even marathon is like four hours.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Four hours so we have to Asli Devrim Lanpir: support their energy intake because we Asli Devrim Lanpir: don't want him that hit the hitting the wall did you did Asli Devrim Lanpir: you know hitting the Asli Devrim Lanpir: ball when they experiencing this that's the worst part of the race so we we Asli Devrim Lanpir: never want want our athletes experience something like that like feeling under Asli Devrim Lanpir: fueled that will be the worst part and instead of thinking of gut microbiome Asli Devrim Lanpir: health Do you know what I mean?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: My point is, keep them healthier.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, because right now we are running a project about this topic.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We are just checking their nutritional Asli Devrim Lanpir: intake one week before during race and one week after the race.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, we try to check their gut microbiome composition to understand whether it's just...

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Uh justly the something that we Asli Devrim Lanpir: can just fight for it or they are if they Asli Devrim Lanpir: and how they got microbiome Asli Devrim Lanpir: changed during and after the training so maybe Asli Devrim Lanpir: maybe it's just just for a Asli Devrim Lanpir: couple of days and then everything is gonna be like the we can Asli Devrim Lanpir: just adjust everything again so that will Asli Devrim Lanpir: be our question so as a dietitian for it all we have i'm quite fond of carbohydrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: gels because that's how we can just boost their performance while they're not Asli Devrim Lanpir: experiencing any detrimental impact of these high exercise loads.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because, you know, we have some studies saying that if you're not getting enough Asli Devrim Lanpir: carbohydrate during the race, Asli Devrim Lanpir: they're experiencing higher stressors and mental issues regarding that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's also kind of really harmful for our athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also, in terms of carbohydrate intake, yes, we are applying carb loading Asli Devrim Lanpir: strategies beforehand, but it's not really enough if they are racing like four Asli Devrim Lanpir: hours, maybe six or seven hours, really.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we have to give them carbohydrates.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So whether they are taking gels or pilloids or cheese or gums, Asli Devrim Lanpir: it doesn't really necessarily matter because we have studies saying that it doesn't matter.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What matters is how are you comfortable with this which one you have to choose Asli Devrim Lanpir: one of them and in terms of God's help what I say look in the big picture so.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, during the race, I encourage them to consume this type of carbohydrate, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like easily digestible gels.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But other than that, outside the race, I highly encourage the intake of these, like high fiber intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But if they're applying this carbohydrate strategy, that's another topic to talk about.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because we have to decide which athletes we are talking about.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What is their gut microbiome response?

Because it's also changed within athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You know, everyone has the unique gut microbiome.

So I try to adjust.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I try to train their gut microbiome.

So I'm pushing their gut microbiome's limits Asli Devrim Lanpir: to adjust healthier way.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So if we couldn't do that, we just go with the easiest one, with the low carbohydrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: during or around the training, then we just change our nutrition to healthier.

Sheena: You know.

And in terms of actually measuring sort of what is healthy for your gut microbiome, Sheena: because obviously we don't really have nice available testing of the gut microbiome Sheena: yet that's, you know, available for you with your clients and for me in my practice.

Sheena: And so how would you say the athletes should Sheena: gauge their the health of their gut microbiome you know what's what are the Sheena: sort of things to look for um in terms of your performance and your and your Sheena: gut um what what would you say is is a sign of a healthy gut and what's a sign of an unhealthy gut.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, that's a great question.

So, well, as a sports dietitian, Asli Devrim Lanpir: I kind of hear a lot of exercise-associated gastrointestinal problems from my athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So they are experiencing, for example, runner's diarrhea.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it may be one of the reasons why they are experiencing this runner's diarrhea Asli Devrim Lanpir: because of their nutritional intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we have to check their nutritional intake beforehand to see.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what type of GI problems they are experiencing, that's kind of show us.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also in terms of like the immunity.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So sometimes you see a lot of athletes getting sick quite often.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Although you are just adjusting everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's another like the red flag that they are not supporting their gut health.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we are just checking again if they are consuming enough to support their Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut microbiome system.

So we are tend to, sometimes, for example, Asli Devrim Lanpir: they aim something to reach in terms of like the performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And they couldn't achieve it, although they're applying all the trainings.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's another thing, another sign for us.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Maybe they're not having the healthy goods or another thing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, they are having some really serious mental issues, Asli Devrim Lanpir: although they are taking psychologists and everything.

I just tend to check Asli Devrim Lanpir: their nutritional intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That might be another cause.

So I'm just checking all the red flags and just Asli Devrim Lanpir: going accordingly in terms of like regulating their nutritional intake because Asli Devrim Lanpir: there's not, as you say, nothing that we can just apply.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: A couple of years ago, one brand just tell people, yes, apply this and we will Asli Devrim Lanpir: check your gut microbiome and we will say, you know, it's not a thing that we can do this right now.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What we can do is just checking red flags, then adjust their diet accordingly.

Sheena: Yeah, that's right.

And I think that's the important thing for people to realise Sheena: that, you know, a sign of poor gut health might be a whole manner of different Sheena: symptoms that you're experiencing.

Sheena: It's not necessarily just a bit of diarrhoea or a bit of constipation or some Sheena: heartburn or, you know, gastritis.

Sheena: You know, it could be that you're, you know, the sign that your gut isn't healthy Sheena: is mood problems or, you know, Sheena: immune problems, like you say, catching lots of infections all the time and just feeling run down.

Sheena: And I think, you know, that's why you've got to have quite a holistic approach Sheena: here, don't you, to looking at the gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yeah.

Sheena: And it is interesting.

The whole sleep thing, I think, is really, really important.

Sheena: And I think, obviously, there are certain sports where it's much harder to maintain good sleep.

Sheena: But, you know, people are catching on to this.

I remember Sheena: going to a lecture from a sleep expert Sheena: and he was saying that he was consulted by Manchester Sheena: United football team and he works Sheena: for a lot of Formula One racing drivers and people like that because they all Sheena: realize that actually sleep is highly important to their performance and if Sheena: they get their sleep right then that enhances their performance and indeed it Sheena: enhances your gut microbiome.

Sheena: Um so so it's you know there's so Sheena: many benefits to it um and and Sheena: i think you know that's another really important aspect although today Sheena: we're we're discussing more about nutrition i think you Sheena: know sleep is actually something that athletes really Sheena: need to take very very seriously um and my understanding is that if you're an Sheena: athlete um you probably need slightly more sleep than the average um person Sheena: because of your healing but do you do you think that's right i mean Obviously Sheena: they're building more muscle, they're repairing more, Sheena: there's a lot going on and they're dealing with a lot of stress.

What do you think?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I wouldn't say more, Asli Devrim Lanpir: At least seven hours per day is like the most recommended hours for athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And if you are not good at adjusting your sleeping schedules, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we kind of have several strategies to improve your sleep.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, for example, yes, it's not today's topic, but it's super important for athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I believe so, too.

But what we aim is to encourage them to taking daily naps, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like even 15 to 30 minutes per day would be enough for them to improve their Asli Devrim Lanpir: sleep quality in terms of the full quality.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So sometimes, like most of the times, they are doing great actually life work Asli Devrim Lanpir: so they don't have to take naps during the day.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what we encourage them to increase their sleeping time, we are calling this Asli Devrim Lanpir: banking sleep, just one week or 10 days before the main event.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what we're trying to do is they're going taper face during that time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So they kind of decrease their training load.

So during that time, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we encourage them, if you, let's say, you are sleeping seven hours, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we say, try to increase to nine hours per day.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It might be quite challenging, but still stay in the bed.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So maybe your body kind of adjusts and you might slightly increase your sleeping time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So this banking sleep behavior kind of help you improve your sleep duration just before the races.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That might be one strategy.

But looking for the full sleep part, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we are running some studies on which type of foods would be beneficial to improve their nutrition.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Or which type of proteins or amino acids to improve.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: At their diet to improve their sleep.

So that will be another topic for us.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's quite challenging, but hopefully we will get there and support their sleep Asli Devrim Lanpir: quality, improve their sleep quality, as well as their nutrition.

Sheena: Yeah, yeah.

And actually, the Biobank study in the UK.

Sheena: Has actually produced some really good data on this because they've been able.

Sheena: Biobank has a huge cohort of you know Sheena: hundreds of thousands of people in it and Sheena: they were able to look at trends in in Sheena: diet and sleep patterns and and Sheena: moods and various things and and actually they were able to Sheena: see from their studies that people with higher Sheena: fiber diets actually have better quality sleep Sheena: and longer sleep and so Sheena: so again you know it comes back to Sheena: this yeah you you have to treat people Sheena: holistically if you if you kind of miss one piece Sheena: of the puzzle then a lot of things can fall apart Sheena: so if you've got that low fiber diet then not Sheena: only is it damaging your gut microbiome but it's also potentially not Sheena: not allowing you to achieve really good quality sleep um Sheena: which again is then going to damage your gut microbiome Sheena: so you know it's it sort of all goes round in circles Sheena: doesn't it yeah yeah so yeah Sheena: no it's really interesting and you mentioned um Sheena: carb um gels and things like Sheena: this I wanted to just ask you a little bit more about that because obviously Sheena: there's a big variety out there um and there are some that are you know more Sheena: natural and others that are sort of just glucose and and I'm have to say a little Sheena: bit confused myself Because the body needs glucose, doesn't it?

Sheena: When it's needing a hit of energy, it can utilize glucose much more readily.

Sheena: I'm wondering about these fructose ones and whether or not that's sensible because Sheena: that, you know, to metabolize fructose, you have to go via the liver and it's Sheena: not as immediate to come to you as energy.

Sheena: So, but I obviously like the idea of more natural products, but I'm a bit torn Sheena: as to whether it's appropriate for athletes.

What do you think?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, well, that's another great question.

So in terms of carbohydrate gels and Asli Devrim Lanpir: the carbohydrate type of which type of yes, your body needs quick release, Asli Devrim Lanpir: quick release carbohydrates to support energy system because your body doesn't Asli Devrim Lanpir: want anything that kind of slow the process so that they can take all the energy Asli Devrim Lanpir: requirement at the moment when you probably provide them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's the science says, yes, glucose is a great solution.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's quickly released and your body kind of use it.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But another thing, another point is when the duration of the exercise kind of Asli Devrim Lanpir: get longer, longer than like one and a half hour, maybe two hours and the intensity quite higher.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So your body needs more than 60 gram carbohydrates per hour.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So the science says you have to increase your carbohydrate intake more than that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, you know, in our gut, we have, I can kind of describe this, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we have kind of two doors, one door for the glucose transport, Asli Devrim Lanpir: one door for the fructose part.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So if we are, let's say, just consuming glucose, Asli Devrim Lanpir: our body tends to just kind of have the capacity at a maximum of 60 gram per Asli Devrim Lanpir: hour in terms of glucose, like the absorption.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So if we are aiming to get 90 gram or like a higher carbohydrate intake, more than 60 gram.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You have to put another carbohydrate sources so that you can open two doors, Asli Devrim Lanpir: one for glucose, one for fructose, so that your body kind of use all the carbohydrate sources.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's why all the common, like the recent guidelines encouraging Asli Devrim Lanpir: people putting glucose plus fructose like Asli Devrim Lanpir: two like the the range would be two Asli Devrim Lanpir: for glucose one for fructose that will be the first perfect combination for Asli Devrim Lanpir: a gels to support your performance that's the way how you can just improve we Asli Devrim Lanpir: have a couple of studies applying either glucose or glucose plus fructose and they clearly show us, Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you have multi-transportable carbohydrate during the race, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you kind of improve your performance because you improve the energy system, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you provide more sources to produce energy, so that will help you achieve your goal.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's the main reason why we are just doing this like a multi-transportable Asli Devrim Lanpir: carbohydrates and supporting this.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But in terms of gut microbiome, that would be tricky for some athletes because Asli Devrim Lanpir: they might experiencing some really serious issue when they consume some gels Asli Devrim Lanpir: with fructose intake so you have to be make sure that your athletes feeling Asli Devrim Lanpir: okay when they apply this type of gels okay.

Sheena: All right so is that so does the fructose make them um have more gut issues then.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Sometimes some of them because Because fructose, we call it short-chain carbs.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it's kind of tend to less digestible compared to other carbohydrates.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's kind of causing all the bloating, gas symptoms in the gut.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that might be another factor why our athletes are having all the exercise-associated GI problems.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we have to check twice whether they are experiencing any issues.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So my point is I kind of try everything beforehand, not during the races.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We just kind of train and try everything just beforehand, like during the training Asli Devrim Lanpir: sessions, whether they are feeling okay.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If they have any issues, we are just passing using this type of thing.

Sheena: Okay.

All right.

Good.

So you mentioned being our athletes sort of hitting a Sheena: wall and are especially with female athletes as well.

Sheena: It's a bit of a thing, especially our teenage female athletes.

Sheena: Underfueling is quite common in that group.

Sheena: Um what would your advice be to Sheena: to people like my daughter um who's in Sheena: that age category and um you know in terms Sheena: of um how to get the right kind of fuel Sheena: for training and for competitions um so that you don't under fuel um but obviously Sheena: you know young girls are are concerned about body image and and um you know Sheena: they don't want to put weight on and you know there are all these It's confounding issues, aren't there?

Sheena: So how do you advise in that situation?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's one of the toughest parts of our job because when I work with adolescents, Asli Devrim Lanpir: young athletes, all the time, they are super concerned, like addicted to their Asli Devrim Lanpir: body image instead of their performance or well-being.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're all the time asking for me to provide something that not putting on Asli Devrim Lanpir: weight, they don't wanna gain any weight, but they just wanna perform well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: My point, what I'm doing, practicing right now, I kind of try to educate them Asli Devrim Lanpir: in terms of nutrition education and also body image related education.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: During my master thesis, I kind of work on body image problems.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So I know how they feel, how they feel, and I kind of feel why they don't want to consume everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So I kind of collect all nutritional details about my athletes and all the training loads, everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And I put everything, like put it down and show them the graphic.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you're not, whether they are getting enough energy or not.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So try to show them, try to make them understand whether they are not under Asli Devrim Lanpir: feeling and how this might impact their performance and also well-being.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, like the hormonal issues, like they are most of the time experiencing, like the amon area.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's like the menstrual problems, like quite common in the adolescent athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I try to ask them questions related to this, if they have any problems with that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So sometimes I get some help from sports psychologists, Asli Devrim Lanpir: to be honest, because that's something that we have to discuss again holistically Asli Devrim Lanpir: to find the best solution and also highly try to educate their parents because Asli Devrim Lanpir: the parents also need to know what to say there.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What's the key factor for their adolescent.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it depends on the adolescents.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Do you know what I mean?

But the main part is to educate them before starting Asli Devrim Lanpir: all the training, all the nutrition intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So why we are doing this?

why this is so important and it's not going to change Asli Devrim Lanpir: your body composition you are not going to gain weight that's that's just support Asli Devrim Lanpir: your body we and i kind of let them want them to let me, Asli Devrim Lanpir: apply my nutritional solution like at least three weeks and see the changes Asli Devrim Lanpir: and when they trust in me we can kind of change everything other than that we Asli Devrim Lanpir: are so it's kind of tough before asking and is forced dietitian to adjust their Asli Devrim Lanpir: diet just as a parent, to be honest.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because, well, you have to just calculate everything, whether they are getting enough.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If they are getting enough, no problem after all.

But if they are not, Asli Devrim Lanpir: they have to see like the nutritionist or dietitian to adjust their dietary Asli Devrim Lanpir: intake and give them some nutritional education.

Sheena: So what would be the warning signs that you're under feeling?

Sheena: Um what what are the main pickups for parents out there or for athletes out Sheena: there or or just you know keen sports people who actually just might be doing Sheena: a lot of training um what's a good sign that you're not quite getting enough um energy into your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes.

Well, most of the time, if a female is really checking the behavior in Asli Devrim Lanpir: terms of eating behavior of their kids, they kind of realize they are not eating enough.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They are not eating enough.

They are just trying to not consume all the things.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's kind of like the absorption during the meal time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But if you are not having meal at the same time with their kids, Asli Devrim Lanpir: that's another challenging factor.

But they kind of realize whether they are Asli Devrim Lanpir: just feeling tired all the time.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They just want to skip something, not their training.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They are just addicted to their training.

But other than that, Asli Devrim Lanpir: they just don't want to attend any family issues, anything after all.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They kind of feel, spend some time alone.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Or sometimes they feel super exhausted, even they are doing nothing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it's kind of checking the iron deficiency symptoms, you know.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that kind of gives us a little bit of signs that, yes, they are feeling not okay.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And sometimes they are not kind of, or some of my athletes, their parents, Asli Devrim Lanpir: to be honest, telling me they have some problems with schools.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They are not performing enough.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They are not getting high scores as well as comparing the older version of their kids.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But what changed after all the sports?

So I'm just checking their school performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If they are doing anything, like sometimes they kind of couldn't concentrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: on if they are playing some musical instruments.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I'm just trying to get all the details.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Check every detail, whether they are performing well, not only performance, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but other aspects of life.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If they continue doing everything in a perfect state, they might be cool.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also check whether they are getting sick again.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's super common.

If they're underfooting, they might be getting sick compared to other ones.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Quite often, the health issues, they might experience something like that.

So let's say, what else?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That can be it.

So what I try to see, look at every single symptom that maybe you kind of experience.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Is like they just try to size down a Asli Devrim Lanpir: bit they're wearing like let's say six instead of eight like this size so you Asli Devrim Lanpir: might need to change whether they have the enough uh body fat percentage to Asli Devrim Lanpir: support all the system so as a parent you have to check every single detail Asli Devrim Lanpir: to understand it's super tough, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but you can get if any red flags around.

Sheena: Yeah, that's true.

And, and I think that's not an unusual scenario for a lot Sheena: of, um, athletes either, is it that, you know, they're just that sort of general Sheena: fatigue and, you know, not healing as well, Sheena: you know, not concentrating well enough at, at school.

Sheena: Um, so everything's sort of declining.

And as you say that you can get that Sheena: endocrine disruption as well, Sheena: which upsets their periods and um so Sheena: so yeah it's really worth sort of being aware of Sheena: all of these type of symptoms and and seeing how Sheena: they impact um because um you Sheena: know without addressing that you're you're sort Sheena: of in this constant state of of under fueling Sheena: aren't you and and you're you're just gonna keep Sheena: you're gonna it's gonna end up in burnout really if you keep going like that Sheena: um so it's a really important thing and actually it's something that I think Sheena: I'm quite glad to see that my local sports clubs that my children attend are Sheena: actually quite aware of this and, Sheena: And they do actually notice if their young athletes are displaying these type of symptoms.

Sheena: So I'm quite encouraged that it's more of a sort of known thing around training Sheena: nowadays.

So it's really, really good that more people are talking about it.

Sheena: But what they're not talking about is the gut microbiome.

Yeah.

Sheena: And, you know, I have to say, you know, my daughter's in Triathlon Scotland Sheena: and she so she attends events and things.

Sheena: And it's not something that they've ever addressed.

In fact, Sheena: I would say it's the opposite.

Sheena: Sometimes, unfortunately, you know, when when she goes away for events, Sheena: they'll take the athletes the night before to these fast food restaurants.

Yes.

Sheena: And give them fast food the night before a race.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But most of the time they don't have any dietitian working for them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's one of the main problems.

Sheena: It is a problem.

It is a problem because, of course, so many of these sports Sheena: clubs are run by people that are dedicating so much time for so little money or nothing.

Sheena: Often they're charitable um and there Sheena: isn't really a great deal of um funding or support that Sheena: way for for a lot of sports clubs these days Sheena: um but they may not be realizing that um Sheena: that you know they might be thinking they're doing the kids a favor you Sheena: know they're away from their families give them give them some food that they're Sheena: really going to enjoy but but in actual fact it does really affect performance Sheena: and you know my even my daughter says you know She doesn't want anything junk Sheena: foodie before a race because it really does make her feel sluggish the next day.

Sheena: I think many sports clubs will get the odd talk from a nutritionist or whatever, Sheena: you know, just to try and get some important information about nutrition.

Sheena: But they still tend to discuss nutrition.

Sheena: Protein, carbs, you know, fats, these type of things.

Sheena: Rather, there's not really a narrative around the gut microbiome yet that I have witnessed.

Sheena: And I'm just wondering, how do we get this knowledge out to sports clubs to Sheena: really make them think, actually, fiber is really important?

Sheena: You know that's another element you know variety in the type of plants that Sheena: you're getting maybe some fermented foods you know how do we get that kind of Sheena: information out to sports clubs and things.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's the the super tough to get because they even the first because the dietitians Asli Devrim Lanpir: kind of prepare every slides every presentation based on their like what they Asli Devrim Lanpir: want want to want to hear so that they want to hear how they can boost their performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They want to hear how they can just like they easy, easy to recover for the athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're asking this type of questions, nothing related to gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: The point is we have to make dietitian like the increased dietitian's awareness Asli Devrim Lanpir: about the gut microbiome at first.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That would be the first thing to do.

because other than that, Asli Devrim Lanpir: I've known so many dietitians, they are not really talking about GAC macrobiome, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but talking about everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we have to educate the health professional at first.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So then we can just kind of reach other people because I've been working with a lot of coaches.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's one of the main topics I share with them.

And I try to.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Encourage them to just not concentrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: on performance because performance is closely Asli Devrim Lanpir: linked to gut microbiome so after hearing me Asli Devrim Lanpir: out they try to change something and what Asli Devrim Lanpir: i realized oh my god when i attended like the Asli Devrim Lanpir: events and everything i kind of Asli Devrim Lanpir: see every a little bit change about the Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the healthy style foods i can Asli Devrim Lanpir: say yes that that was my point and and Asli Devrim Lanpir: then they're kind of getting everything so we Asli Devrim Lanpir: have to make them realize the importance of Asli Devrim Lanpir: the gut microbiome at first that's how they can maybe change this habit to going Asli Devrim Lanpir: for a fast food restaurant instead of maybe a healthy option even provide the Asli Devrim Lanpir: kids so that's that might be the solution i don't know anything else what we Asli Devrim Lanpir: can do exactly to change this.

Sheena: Yeah i i think we've got a bit of a long road in front of us sadly um.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But yeah it's.

Sheena: Really frustrating um but hopefully hopefully um we can get more of this messaging.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Out there and.

Sheena: You know maybe people can pass this um podcast on to their local um their local Sheena: clubs uh so that they can learn a little bit more from you, Sheena: Osley, because I think it's so important for them to hear a nutritionist that Sheena: is actually using this science and understanding the science and being able to, you know, Sheena: really enhance the performance of athletes with this approach.

Sheena: So I think that's really, really good.

So have you got any other tips for how Sheena: athletes can optimize their gut microbiome while training and while competing?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We talk most of the time, everything related to gut microbiome and nutritional intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And during training, I kind of just ask them, listen to your gut, Asli Devrim Lanpir: listen to your gut every time and check all the signs, all the signals related to that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because as a dietician, my point is all the time just try to limit, Asli Devrim Lanpir: try to see their gut's limits in terms of use, as you say before.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Like if you are giving fibers, high fibers, like a food, they might experiencing Asli Devrim Lanpir: some GI issues like bloating, gas symptoms as well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But after a while, what I tend to suggest to them, try to increase this type of high-fiber intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It starts step by step to adjust everything, to train their gut.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And also, they might apply fermented foods like yogurt, kefir, Asli Devrim Lanpir: one of my favorites, one of my athletes' favorites.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Either they are using milk or water, doesn't matter really.

It really helps Asli Devrim Lanpir: my athletes to improve their gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: How I realized, because I realized that they're not getting sick.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They are performing well.

They are reaching their performance target.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's how they kind of achieve it.

So they are just changing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're applying their nutritional, like the...

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Nighter plant, plus adding some fermented foods.

We are changing their, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the normal bread to sourdough bread.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's like the small step, but it works quite well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We are adding yogurt to most of their meals and kefir and everything, kimchi sometimes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And yeah, we have like a couple of sources, even some of them, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you know, a couple of papers recently, they're talking about chocolates and Asli Devrim Lanpir: their impact on gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And it says like the high carb, like, you know, like 80, 85% carbohydrate, Asli Devrim Lanpir: if I'm not right, if I'm not wrong.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you apply this type of chocolates per day, it's kind of helpful for your Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut microbiome because it's also a fermented food.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You are using chocolate beans and using some starter culture to produce this chocolate.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it's also helpful because, and also another fact, polyphenol intake, Asli Devrim Lanpir: you have to add some different type of antioxidants to an athlete's diet.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because most of the time, for example, like after training, we are just concentrating Asli Devrim Lanpir: on protein to just boost their muscle protein synthesis, plus carbohydrate to Asli Devrim Lanpir: replenish their glycogen stores.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But nothing at all.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: We have to check their polyphenol intakes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If we increase their antioxidant intake, that will also help to restore and Asli Devrim Lanpir: regulate their gut microbiome and regulate their immunity as well.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that will be also quite helpful to recover easily after these extreme exercise or events.

Sheena: Just tell the listeners a little bit more about polyphenols and antioxidants Sheena: and where do they get these from and what are the best sources?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, well, these are the type of products and like the compounds, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we can find it like the fruits and vegetables.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's kind of like a non-digestible small part, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but it's kind of helpful to restore and rebuild and also boost your immune metabolism Asli Devrim Lanpir: by like kind of helping restoring all the immune cells in your gut and your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we kind of help them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, let's say if you are getting 300 gram berries, any type of berries Asli Devrim Lanpir: really, have a high polyphenol intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that's kind of how you can just improve your polyphenol intake.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So fruits and vegetables, nuts, is really great sources for the polyphenol intakes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we can just kind of encourage them and also try to make their diet diverse Asli Devrim Lanpir: in terms of polyphenol intakes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So go for different color in terms of fruits and vegetables.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So every color, meaning that they have different type of polyphenol inside.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So we try to encourage them to pick different color and make it colorful like Asli Devrim Lanpir: the rainbow so that you can just see and you can just get all the benefits from Asli Devrim Lanpir: the polyphenol to just support your immunity and gut microbiome and performance as well.

Sheena: Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, you know, polyphenols are so important for us.

Sheena: And as you say, you know, they've got this incredible antioxidant, Sheena: impressive effect on our immune system.

Sheena: They also can really help our blood vessels and to maintain the sort of health Sheena: of our blood vessels, which again is really important as an athlete.

Sheena: You want to have really effective, lovely, clean blood vessels pumping lots of blood through.

Sheena: So, you know, if you've got quite a, Sheena: a diet that's very high in sugars.

And if you're metabolically slightly deranged Sheena: there, then you're more likely to get more damage to the arteries.

Sheena: And that can then, you know, cause you problems as an athlete in terms of your arterial function.

Sheena: And, you know, you don't want to end up with high blood pressures and things Sheena: like this and cardiovascular risk.

Sheena: Um so so polyphenols are very Sheena: very important um so yeah that's Sheena: a great message to get out to our athletes to just really Sheena: ramp up the variety and the types of plants that are in their diet so that they Sheena: eat eat the rainbow and get all of that variety in and you've mentioned um fermented Sheena: foods um what do you think about um probiotic supplements um because a lot of Sheena: people will be taking them and, Sheena: thinking that they're doing a good thing by taking them.

Sheena: And, you know, what's your advice as a nutritionist with those?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Probiotics can be really helpful for, like, the support gut microbiome to improve Asli Devrim Lanpir: your, like, metabolism if you're experiencing some disorder or medical symptoms.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But not all probiotics could be helpful, and not everyone should take one of Asli Devrim Lanpir: the probiotics to support their system because, Asli Devrim Lanpir: well, yes, we have a lot of studies saying that applying probiotics can help Asli Devrim Lanpir: you restore or just rebuild or help your gut microbiome and any symptoms regarding that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But, you know, we have to know which type of problem our athletes are experiencing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: For example, if they have diarrhea, we have to ask whether they apply any antibiotics recently.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because if they apply antibiotics, the diarrhea might be related to this antibiotic usage.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And the probiotic species specific to antibiotic-associated diarrhea is quite Asli Devrim Lanpir: different compared to other probiotic suits.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what I'm trying to say is you have to make sure that it's really like the targeted.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you have to make sure that you know the main problem.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you can pick the right probiotic sushi, like the species, Asli Devrim Lanpir: then you can apply to your athletes.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what my point is, I have a couple of athletes just using some type of probiotics Asli Devrim Lanpir: saying that, oh, my friends just offered this.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It worked for him.

So I just start working using this.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But it's not the thing.

One thing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Can get all the positive benefit, like positivity of the probiotics, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but it doesn't necessarily mean that you will get all the same stuff, Asli Devrim Lanpir: the same benefits from that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you have to make sure that you check with your GP, dietician.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Or nutritionist, ask for help, ask for advice.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And if they prescribe you to use probiotics, then go for it.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Other than that, I'm not really encouraging people to use probiotics.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Just, yes, because, you know, we have a lot of campaigns saying that, Asli Devrim Lanpir: oh, that will really boost your immunity.

That will help you X, Y, Z.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes, I'm applying probiotics to my athletes, some of them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But I try to make sure whether they are experiencing anything like irritable Asli Devrim Lanpir: bowel syndromes or anything related to diarrhea or constipation.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But I generally go with probiotic instead of probiotic.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you have to make sure what type of symptoms, problems they're experiencing.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And it's not just something that you can apply for everyone.

Sheena: Yeah, I agree.

And actually, you know, there's mounting research now into probiotics.

Sheena: So we're probably going to get to the stage quite soon where there's a lot more Sheena: evidence base.

And if people are interested in looking at the evidence base Sheena: for probiotics, they can look at the ISAP website, which is a really good resource.

Sheena: And that tells you about all the sort of current research into probiotics and Sheena: symbiotics and postbiotics even.

Sheena: So really useful source of information.

And there may well be some very good Sheena: studies looking at probiotics in certain conditions that you might be really interested in.

Sheena: But otherwise, a lot of the probiotics that we're manufacturing are lactobacilli, Sheena: bifidobacteria, you know, these kind of bacteria that we commonly find in fermented foods.

Sheena: And that's not to say that fermented foods suit everybody's gut, Sheena: because of course, you know, some people's gut may reject those fermented foods Sheena: or it might be quite difficult for you to cope with them.

Sheena: But on the whole, fermented foods provide a nice variety of beneficial bacteria.

Sheena: I shouldn't call them probiotics because you can't in fermented foods unless Sheena: they've got that evidence base.

Sheena: But they contain a lot of these very beneficial bacteria.

Sheena: And you may be able to find some solutions in the fermented food world that really suit your gut, Sheena: which is probably going to be quite a lot cheaper than going for probiotic supplement Sheena: and you can often find you get a greater diversity of species in these fermented foods as well so.

Sheena: Personally, I'm more of a fan of fermented foods, but, you know, Sheena: they can be really useful for people that don't like fermented foods or, Sheena: you know, just can't get on with them for various reasons.

Sheena: So I'm kind of with you on that, Izzy, and I think, you know, Sheena: it just comes down to the individual again, you know, what suits them.

Sheena: Um so so i think we've we've Sheena: talked about quite a lot of stuff here and and i'm just about getting my head Sheena: around the the athletes mic biome um but what about me i'm not an athlete right Sheena: but i like to exercise and keep super fit um and i go to the gym and i go to Sheena: the gym with a lot of other other people.

Sheena: I did a gym workout this morning.

Sheena: We hit class 45 minutes and it makes me feel great.

Sheena: But I look around the room and I see quite a variety of different fueling in the room.

Sheena: And I'm wondering, you know, how much fuel do I need for doing, Sheena: you know, say an hour's workout a day or a 45 minute workout in a day?

Sheena: You know, should I be fueling up before it?

Do I need to?

Sheena: Should I be feeling during or after what's your advice to sort of just general Sheena: sporty people like myself.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes yes yeah that will be a great addition Asli Devrim Lanpir: to our podcast because yes not everyone at least and they are doing like recreational Asli Devrim Lanpir: exercise I don't know what to do in terms of nutritional intake I kind of suggest Asli Devrim Lanpir: to you to just adjust the again everything what I recommend for athletes But Asli Devrim Lanpir: if we are talking about before, Asli Devrim Lanpir: during and after nutritional intake, that will change because you are not doing Asli Devrim Lanpir: like an exercise that can last like two hours, maybe three hours.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you kind of, it's not necessarily to fool your body to improve everything based on that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So, my point is, if you are, for example, let's say you are doing early morning Asli Devrim Lanpir: training, it's not, and it will be super easy, easy, easy to moderate, Asli Devrim Lanpir: it will be 45 minutes, and you just want to do it in the fastest state.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That will be quite fine for your body if you are okay with that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You are not experiencing any issues regarding your blood levels, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like the blood sugar levels.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Sometimes it is okay to go with that.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If you tend to go like the moderate to high intensity and you are aiming to Asli Devrim Lanpir: do 45 to one hour, it will be slightly like manageable, but still it's kind Asli Devrim Lanpir: of challenging for your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So what I suggest to you to consume a light snack, like one gram per kilogram carbohydrate in it.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So that will be a toast or just like the quick banana, something.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Maybe a peanut butter on the top.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That will be quite enough for you to just like pre-fueling stage.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And during the training, if it's 45 minutes, it's not necessarily consume anything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You can just drink some water that will be helpful for your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But instead of that, it's not necessarily to consume anything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But sometimes people saying, oh, I'm just running recreationally, Asli Devrim Lanpir: but they are doing like one and a half hour.

They're doing two hours exercise.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: If that's something you are doing, and if you are going slow, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like low to moderate intensity, maybe consuming around 30 gram carbohydrate Asli Devrim Lanpir: per hour would be beneficial for your body and performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it depends on, again, the intensity of your exercise, the duration of your Asli Devrim Lanpir: exercise, and what your body needs.

Listen to your body.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I kind of mind what your body says.

So you can kind of adjust everything.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: And in terms of post-fueling, that will be something you definitely apply, Asli Devrim Lanpir: whether you are doing regular exercise or you're an athlete.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You have to make sure that you are getting at least 20 Asli Devrim Lanpir: gram protein to boost your muscle protein Asli Devrim Lanpir: synthesis 20 gram at least you have Asli Devrim Lanpir: to take it sometimes you know like you body size kind of matters so maybe you Asli Devrim Lanpir: might just calculate that 0.25 gram per kilogram like after your workout And Asli Devrim Lanpir: plus, you may add some carbohydrates.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: One or 1.2 gram per kilogram carbohydrate after this workout.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That will be enough.

And that will be super easy.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Again, you can just make healthy sandwiches to get all of them.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: All just be a smoothie that will be also helpful to achieve this goal.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It's so manageable, reachable.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: What I suggest, consuming this around two hours after finishing your exercise.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That will be super helpful for you and plus don't forget to take some berries Asli Devrim Lanpir: or some fruits to get some polyphenol as well.

Sheena: And what do you think about protein post-exercise?

How important is it to get Sheena: the protein in there for your body?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's quite, quite important because, well, right now it's a challenging topic Asli Devrim Lanpir: for us because some new studies saying that time is not important.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: You have to most focus on the protein amount during the day.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: But my point is I suggest getting enough protein within the two hours after your exercise, Asli Devrim Lanpir: no matter what like if it's the light exercise Asli Devrim Lanpir: or something because our body has this Asli Devrim Lanpir: kind of system that protein turnovers continues Asli Devrim Lanpir: all the time so all the proteins like Asli Devrim Lanpir: like protein sentences and protein breakdowns it's Asli Devrim Lanpir: kind of look you are kind of pushing it's like Asli Devrim Lanpir: like vehicle or just tracking all Asli Devrim Lanpir: the time working all the time so when you do exercises your body doing a lot Asli Devrim Lanpir: of breakdown so you have to put some protein to just improve protein synthesis Asli Devrim Lanpir: as well to just recover quickly to boost muscle protein synthesis so you are Asli Devrim Lanpir: not you don't want to lose any.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Fat-free mass so everyone aim Asli Devrim Lanpir: to provide all the fat-free mass in Asli Devrim Lanpir: their body so that's my point you have to make sure that you are getting enough Asli Devrim Lanpir: protein so i tend to give them at least 20 25 sometimes if they are vegan 40 Asli Devrim Lanpir: gram carbohydrate sorry 40 gram protein after exercise just to quickly recover okay.

Sheena: All right yeah no i think i think the protein thing is really important um and Sheena: as an athlete i think you need a little bit more protein don't you just to just Sheena: to cope with all of that extra protein synthesis and um and so that you don't Sheena: lose muscle mass you know so that you can maintain that muscle mass and that muscle performance.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yes.

Sheena: Yeah, okay, all right, great.

So I think we've covered a lot now.

Sheena: That's quite a lot of information.

We could just carry on and there's loads Sheena: and loads of things I want to ask you but I think that's probably enough information for now.

Sheena: Is there anything else that you think that you could offer as a nugget before Sheena: we finish?

And anything else you want to say to our listeners that's another important message?

Asli Devrim Lanpir: I believe the most important part is one size, not fit all.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Please, if you're talking about your gut microbiome, it's just unique for you.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because, for example, in gut microbiome studies, we say, as scientists, Asli Devrim Lanpir: we say, the very first 1,000 days is super important in terms of your gut microbiome.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Because that's the time when your gut microbiome kind of shapes the first shape.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Thinking of the very first 1,000 days, our family feed us breast, Asli Devrim Lanpir: either breastfeeding or formula.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: They're applying different type of meals and different type of, Asli Devrim Lanpir: like we are eating different type of meals because we have different cultural Asli Devrim Lanpir: backgrounds and everything or every socio-economical stuff, you know.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So it changes everything in terms of your gut microbiome and it's shaping.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It has been shaping since then.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So right now, as a grown-up, we are applying different types of exercise, Asli Devrim Lanpir: duration, and we have different types of stress loads, and we have different Asli Devrim Lanpir: sleeping patterns as an adult.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So one size, not fit all.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: That's the biggest thing I would like to highlight because even sometimes, Asli Devrim Lanpir: I all the time love saying to my athletes, You know, fairy tale Cinderella, Asli Devrim Lanpir: even the witch didn't do one shoe to fit everyone.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It was fitting just Cinderella and Cinderella only.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: She tried to create the best one for her, but it doesn't mean that it will work everyone.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: So you have to make sure that as a sports dietitian, my job is to find the best, Asli Devrim Lanpir: the most suitable nutrition solution for you.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Just around your training and also your off-season so that I can just help you.

But it's not...

Asli Devrim Lanpir: It doesn't necessarily mean that it will work for everyone so Asli Devrim Lanpir: you have to decide how i can train my Asli Devrim Lanpir: gut how i can understand my gut needs so Asli Devrim Lanpir: mindful eating is super important so Asli Devrim Lanpir: we are i just try to um Asli Devrim Lanpir: educate my athletes try to listen their body and try to listen everything i Asli Devrim Lanpir: try to pick every single detail to understand them so try yourself that they Asli Devrim Lanpir: listen yourself so uh find the best solution works for you that will be the Asli Devrim Lanpir: most important thing i perfect.

Sheena: So one size definitely doesn't fit.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: All and.

Sheena: And you know that that's a really important message Sheena: be holistic think about yourself uh all these different aspects of your life Sheena: that might be influencing your gut microbiome and and you need to concentrate Sheena: on that holistic approach to to heal it um with nutrition exercise sleep, stress, Sheena: relationships, everything.

Sheena: And that's the microbiome medics message as well, because we're lifestyle medics.

Sheena: And that's the message we need to get across.

Sheena: So thank you so much, Izzy.

I've learned loads.

It's been really, Sheena: really fascinating.

And I could talk to you all day about this, but I'm not going to.

Sheena: That's too much for our listeners to take in.

So thanks again.

Sheena: And hopefully we'll chat again soon.

Take care.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Yeah, thanks so much for everything.

Bye.

Sheena: Bye.

Asli Devrim Lanpir: Bye.

Intro and Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Microbiomedics Podcast.

Intro and Outro: We really hope you enjoy the content and we welcome your feedback.

Intro and Outro: We'd love to hear any suggestions you might have for microbiome topics that Intro and Outro: you'd like us to cover and we also appreciate listeners' questions and we'll Intro and Outro: endeavour to answer them in the next podcast.