Every struggle, every failure, every triumph is an opportunity for communion with the Lord.

That's good.

Like this is giving me an opportunity right now to do something when you think about it, when you boil it down, that is miraculous.

I am communing with the God whose enemy I was, who owed me nothing but wrath and judgment.

So it's like that in and of itself should give us delight.

Like, okay, I've sinned now, I'm struggling, I'm battling, but I get to talk to God.

And then you connect that with all the realities of the gospel.

That means the veil of the temple has been rent in too.

That means I have access.

That means I can enter him boldly through his blood.

That means I'm no longer alienated from God.

You know, again, I've talked about it before, but I want to connect with the realities of our faith at every turn because that breathes life.

That's terrible.

Uh Tony, how dare you do that to us?

There's no such thing as Jenny.

Um there is what Ray Comfort?

Yeah, you guys just look at the guy who doesn't travel in the end.

Men up.

Come on, get it together.

Jit.

16, 17?

One of those days.

With Mark and Oscar.

Turkey, Greece, and Italy.

You got an idea.

I'm so glad you're back.

I really am.

I love you guys, and I got sick of being woken up.

The only thing is Mark with early morning interviews.

Oh, yeah.

Cut off sleeves and your messy hair.

I was awake, but it's still man, seriously, I checked my programming.

There's nothing in my brain at that time of the morning.

That was fun though, Ray.

Yeah.

Well, so you got the middle of the night like that.

You guys still waking up at 2 30, 3 o'clock in the morning and up for the day.

Yeah, well, and then they changed the time on us on top of that.

That was a win for me, actually.

Yeah.

No, I've been it's been nice getting up early, but I've been crashing like it since.

But should we say precisely what you guys have been doing?

Oh, yeah.

I just said we're Turkey, Greece, and Rome.

Yeah, but that tell me it sounds like easy.

It sounds like eating greasy turkey.

You went to Turkey and Greece and Rome.

We did.

Yeah.

The food was amazing.

Yeah, Mark misses a food.

Actually.

Mark misses a food.

We did have a challenge, Ray.

Mark said that he didn't like Greek food, and I said, give me one restaurant, one chance, one opportunity.

And he let me order whatever I wanted for him.

I ordered for him.

And uh we went twice.

Yeah, that's the same day.

Same day.

You got you got the camel's lives?

Wait, was it the same day actually?

Lunch and dinner.

Man, it was good.

That place was pretty good.

It was good.

It was probably yeah, one of the top two or three.

Did they have yogurt?

Oh yeah.

Greek yogurt.

What was it?

What did you get that?

American yogurt.

Was it that boat?

I don't know.

It's whatever he ordered for me.

Yeah, that boat pasta.

We also discovered the Greek salad.

The thing about olives.

Oh yeah.

I don't like what is it, the vinegar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The fact that they're they're pickled.

Pickled.

Yeah.

Oh, you guys had non-pickled olives?

We had dried, they were like dried olives and he liked them.

Ah, it's weird.

That's what I love about the pickles.

It's the or the olives.

It's the pickling.

Have you ever had pickled walnut?

Is that real?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Black.

Walnut?

Yeah.

Pickled walnut.

Have you ever had a pickled cucumber?

Yes.

I love pickled cucumbers.

Pickles, pickles.

Pickled coffee.

Yeah.

Guys, what a journey though.

Seriously.

I mean, you know, we we we kicked it off here, and it's kind of like what's gonna happen.

But I seriously, it didn't hit me till we were on the plane, and I was like, I I finally had time to slow down because it we were going, man.

I mean, there were nights I got at we had like two hours, hour and a half sleep.

Yeah.

Um so you filmed season 11.

Season 11.

Got all the footage, got it good stuff.

Eddie lost, Eddie lost it, but we averaged four hours and seven minutes a night.

Did you really?

Yeah.

It's a backtrack because just somebody might not know what we're talking about.

We have a television show called Way of the Master.

We have 10 seasons released.

We just, Mark Easy, and myself went to Turkey, Greece, and Italy to film season 11.

While we were there, we were learning about how the early church evangelized while at the same time evangelizing.

So we had a lot of amazing witnessing clips, open-air preaching there for 17 days.

It was incredible.

And that's what I was saying.

We should say at the beginning.

Yeah.

Now everybody knows.

Yeah, I mean, Ephesus, Corinth, uh Thessalonica, Philippi.

Philippi, Lore, Laodicea.

Oh my goodness, you guys.

The Vatican.

And and yeah, and Turks and Kinkos.

And being in those places that we talked about a lot on the program of like, we know, you know, like Corinth, this was the Bima seat.

Yeah.

You know, Mars Hill.

This was there's no question.

You know, was she there?

She was there.

She was there.

Yeah, yeah.

She was there.

She's her brushes.

She was there.

But but yeah, it was epic.

And then the people that knew the ministry that we ran into.

It happened in Corinth, it happened in Athens, it happened in Rome.

I was in the Coliseum walking around.

Someone comes up, hey Living Waters.

People from, I think they were from uh Sweden, in fact.

Sweden.

And so, man, it was it was amazing.

Getting to preach the gospel uh in all these different spectacles.

Once in a lifetime trip.

Because I ain't going back.

Can you imagine if Eddie lost all the footage?

That's not funny.

Didn't I tell you?

He called this morning.

It's gone.

That's why he's not here.

Yeah.

Digital.

He pushed the wrong button.

Can you imagine?

Yeah.

No, they were guarding that.

I had to guard the bag with all our footage, 62 little cassettes when we came back from Europe.

Oh, back then, yeah.

But this means they you were in the team.

Yeah, it was a red bag, and I didn't let go of it for all the reasons.

The whole truck.

Oh, man.

That's right.

That was scary.

Imagine that got stolen with Tony's equipment.

Yeah.

Dawny.

Dawny.

Rip off his little mustache.

Yeah.

Anyway, it's good to be back.

Time for the cool classy colour.

This is from Lori Schmidt.

Greetings, Ray, and all the Living Waters team.

I was one of thousands who were honored to be praying for you all for the Cal State Fullerton Outreach on campus Thursday.

I was an incredibly it was an incredibly beautiful thing to watch God working through you all to reach those students and all who will watch the video.

And then the Fox News interview.

Wow, it feels surreal to watch what God is doing.

You've equipped and inspired me for years.

I go to Oklahoma State University to give out your tracts and just have one-on-one conversations.

I thank God for each of you and what he is doing through you.

I wish I lived closer.

I'd be helping in any way possible at these events.

But I'll be continuing on here and praying for the great door that's been opened to you all there.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast and movable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Godspeak, Lori Schmidt.

Love that verse.

That's awesome.

Thank you, Lori.

Amen.

Love that verse.

And the encouragement.

Thanks for that encouragement.

And uh more to come, more campuses.

So stay tuned.

France.

And now we're radically revolutionary resource.

This podcast is brought to you by idiotic things.

People did in the Bible and on the podcast.

I'm the idiotic author.

Ray.

Idiotic.

And who is this dedicated to, by the way?

Oh, you gotta read it.

It's it's it's very meaningful to me.

It's about the third page in.

For whatever.

Oh no, that's not it.

That's a Bible verse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Mark, would you sing while he easily finds the third page?

Is it Ray?

Third page.

Literally.

To my good friend Ken Ham, whose life helped inspire the title of this book.

Idiotic Things.

My only question is, Ray, why did you have him printed upside down?

Twice.

It was idiotic.

Yeah.

So Ray, tell us about this book.

Well, the Bible's full of idiotic things that people have done.

And often they're pointed at by the ungodly to say, look, the Bible's and the Bible's full of people that did dumb things.

And that's why it's for our instruction.

So we can learn to do the right thing.

I man.

Yeah, so make sure to check it out.

Don't forget the Living Waters Mike, the Evan Study Bible, Living Waters TV, all that LivingWaters.com.

And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel.

Continuing to grow.

I think people are liking these little clocks.

I've heard a lot of good things from people.

Yeah, it's good.

All right, bring it up.

Today we're talking about how to weep and rejoice.

What?

With did you repeat that so it's legible?

No, please don't.

How to weep and rejoice with others.

You like that better?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How to weep and rejoice with others.

So rejoice, Mark.

No, no, it's no, you did not weep with Ray and I.

I thought the Tata was how to rejoice when others are weeping.

I messed this up completely.

That would be funny.

Uh um Romans 12, 15.

Yes.

Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep.

What a profound verse when you think about that.

You know, that calling to enter in with others.

Uh and I think diametrically opposed to the human nature in every way imaginable.

You know, people are weeping and we're in a good mood or we're happy.

It's like, eh, you know, it's kind of like when I'd get a stomachache.

Um, no, no.

It's like when I don't have a stomachache and someone else does, like trying to understand what they're feeling, it's really tough because you're not you're not there.

But when you have it, you you can sympathize.

But Paul's call isn't when you feel like rejoicing, find others that are rejoicing and rejoicing, or when you're weeping.

But it's like, hey, enter into people's lives.

Yeah, you you can't sit this one out, right?

You you can't say, I'm an introvert, or um, you know, I I haven't experienced what you're experiencing, so maybe you should talk to somebody else, or you should somebody else should sit with you rather.

You know, um there's no way out of this.

This is not a personality preference.

This is a call to every person who names the name of Christ.

You sit and you laugh with those who are laughing, rejoicing, right?

And you weep with those who weep.

There's no sitting this out.

This is the this is where things are difficult and hard for sure.

But uh you you can't take a pass on this.

I remember I was preaching maybe a year or two ago on Mother's Day, and uh my wife came up to me, you know, a day or two before my sermon and said, Hey, don't forget that so-and-so is struggling um with having a baby right now.

And don't forget that this other person lost their mom.

And I thought, man, the wisdom of my wife.

Because I would have gone in and she'd be like, hey, it's Mother's Day to all the moms, and to you know what I mean?

And so that's that's a great example, I think, as as communicators of God's word to just recognize the breadth of life and the different things that people are going to through in in moments like that.

Yeah.

You know, Oscar, you said the wisdom of your wife.

I thought the wisdom of God to give you a wife.

Yeah.

Helpmate, right?

How can a man um identify with a woman who's having a baby?

We can't do it, really.

Kidney stones.

Yeah, yeah, broken fumer.

Yeah, a broken fumor.

Yeah, I know.

Um I I I I was able to manage the childbirth that my wife went through the first time.

And the second time, I had a perturbation.

I was there, I was able to handle the pain.

You know, I on that note, I made the worst mistake of my life after Rachel had um Julia, our first, and it was a C-section.

And, you know, that's I mean, you're you're talking an incision that big and staples, and you know, and I we wake up in the morning.

Did they do Caesareans?

Staples.

Yeah, they staple.

I don't know if any more, but at least 28 years old.

I mean staples the store.

Oh, staples, yeah, these c sections.

Uh but I I remember I we got up the next morning and I go to Rachel.

That was the toughest night of my life.

Such sensitive.

I just I mean, seriously, like getting, I don't know what it was.

Maybe it was the the uh adrenaline of the day and then just the emotional.

You really felt her pain.

Well, I just had because it was getting up through the night with with Julia crying and helping her, but but I mean, I'm like she's all cut up.

She went but didn't you actually have morning sickness when she was like, I did one time.

One time I threw up.

I think they call it sympathy pains or something.

But that was definitely psychosomatic, but I I did.

It was weird.

Well, so anyway, don't ever tell your wife.

It's easier to weep with those who weep rather than rejoice with those who rejoice, especially when their success is a reminder of your failure, your failure, right?

Their promotion is a reminder of your lack of promotion.

Their baby announcement is a reminder of your loss.

Your loss.

Right.

I I think nothing reveals the wicked, fallen, sinful human nature more than when others are rejoicing and you're struggling because you don't have what they have.

Is that covetousness, Ray?

Is that a form of covetousness?

Jealousy, isn't it?

Jealousy, covetousness, envy.

Yeah, pride.

Yeah, pride is in there.

Yeah.

Greed, lust.

Yeah.

It exposes something about you for sure, doesn't it?

Yeah.

I think, yeah, Mark, I think it is harder.

It's harder to rejoice, you know.

Um, or at least, well, you know, because people can act, but but even to put on that act, you know, um, it's like it reminds me of the uh beauty pageants, and they're they're about to name off the winner, and you have the runner up next to them, and they're like, they just want him to I think you're I think Mark, you pointed out something super important, and as you read that verse in its context, you realize how important to Paul Christian unity was as he's writing Romans.

And so just to expand on the on the verse real quick that you already read, Romans 12, 15, it starts in verse 9.

Let love, I mean, and as I read this, just think about the context of Christian unity within the context of the church.

And as you just pointed out, you're you're rejoicing over someone else's joy while also weeping, as you pointed out, or vice versa, right?

And so let love be without hypocrisy, detest evil, cling to what is good, love one another deeply as brothers and sisters, outdo one another in showing honor.

Do not lack diligence and zeal, be fervent in the spirit, serve the Lord, rejoice in hope, be patient in affliction, be persistent in prayer, share with the saints and their needs, pursue hospitality, bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse, rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep, live in harmony with one another, do not be proud, instead associate with the humble.

Do not be wise in your own estimation, do not repay anyone evil for evil.

Give careful thought to do what is honorable in everyone's eyes, if possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

Friends, do not avenge yourselves, instead, leave room for God's wrath because it is written, vengeance belongs to me, I will repay, says the Lord.

And so I man, I think you just hit on something so important, which is the idea of this isn't just rejoicing to be happy for someone.

It's not just weeping to show empathy, it's actually Christian unity amongst brothers and sisters in the church.

That's true.

You know, Romans 12 is one of my absolute favorite chapters, along with probably Colossians 3.

Why do you hate the rest of the Bible?

Yes.

No, no, no joke.

Look at that, leading his brother into a trap.

He just asked you a fair question.

I love the whole word of God.

Um, this is like in Rome when I told you, oh, look how cool the sun looks right now.

He looked at his listen rejoicing in his wickedness.

He almost burned his brother's eyes out.

Um, but you know, they're just so practical.

I love that practicality of like the breakdown of the Christian life.

And I and I'm I'm really glad you read the whole context, Oscar, because it it really kind of helps us understand the surroundings of God's call for us to enter each other's lives as God's people, you know.

And man, it's hard to do.

Yeah, that that flesh, that old man is so alive, you know, and keeps us each as our own island, you know, with our own desires and wants and drives versus like, no, like even the the call to be at peace with all men, so far as it depends on you, there's only so much you can do, but like as much as it depends on you, do everything that you can to pursue that, even though it's opposite of what you may feel driven to do, you know.

But does that reveal your maturity, you think, when you're able to rejoice with those who are rejoicing?

Right.

So it has nothing to do with your mood, right?

Because you may be feeling one way or the other.

You know, I think of the uh the mother who just gave birth, and the child is, you know, three weeks old, and she does not feel like getting up in the night to feed, she's exhausted, and it demonstrates her maturity and her her her direction that this is what needs to happen.

And even so, when when you're going through it and you're having a hard time and somebody's now rejoicing, I think that's a great sign of your maturity and how you are growing in the Lord and you're moving forward and and you understand that your times are coming and that your name's written in the Lamb's book of life, and this is why we rejoice, not because demons are subject to us or anything else.

Yeah, I agree, Mark.

I think it's it's a sign of maturity in one particular aspect of the true fruit of the spirit, and that's self-control.

Because that's what it really is.

It's it's it's a it's a humility in acknowledging that look, I'm struggling right now, and sometimes that's kind of part and parcel with like praying without ceasing.

Ray, I love that you talked about that recently because every every struggle, every failure, every triumph is an opportunity for communion with the Lord.

That's good.

Like this is giving me an opportunity right now to do something when you think about it, when you boil it down, that is miraculous.

I am communing with the God whose enemy I was, who owed me nothing but wrath and judgment.

So it's like that in and of itself should give us delight.

Like, okay, I've sinned now, I'm struggling, I'm battling, but I get to talk to God.

And then you connect that with all the realities of the gospel.

That means the veil of the temple has been rent into.

That means I have access.

That means I can enter him boldly through his blood.

That means I'm no longer alienated from God, you know.

Again, I've talked about it before, but I want to connect with the realities of our faith at every turn because that breathes life, you know.

So it's yeah, God.

Um, I'm I'm gonna be honest, I'm struggling to rejoice with this brother or sister.

I'm dealing with jealousy, with envy right now.

Like, why did they get that promotion?

Why did they but you don't say that to them?

No, you wouldn't tell them.

I'm so happy that you got the promotion.

Easy.

I got jealous when you won that money in Las Vegas.

You're on those?

Uh-uh.

Uh Black 13, is that what it was?

Yeah, yeah.

Jealousy hitting my heart.

But yeah, it's always a battle.

I think the my soul shall make her boast in the Lord, the humble will hear and be glad.

And if you want to see the proud heart of a human being, uh boast about God's goodness to an unsaved person and see what they do.

They'll find every excuse not to praise God because of their proud heart.

The wicked, through the pride of its countenance, will not seek after God in their proud heart.

And uh sadly, we have a proud heart, and that's what probably is the basis for our not rejoicing when someone has something wonderful happen to them.

I was just thinking, there's a it's hard to reconcile the two that you and I are full of joy unspeakable, and yet we weep at what's happening in this world.

And our example is Jesus.

He was anointed with an oil anointed with an oil of joy above his fellows, and yet he was a man of sorrows.

Acquainted with grief.

Wow.

And when you look around this world, we're acquainted with grief.

Everywhere you look, there's just horror beyond words, people that are suffering in terrible ways.

Then you think of the fate of the ungodly and how heavy that rests upon you.

And one thing that makes me weep is the fact that I don't weep very often for the fate of the ungodly.

And that shows how hard my heart is.

And it breaks my heart that I don't have a heart that's tended towards the lost.

That's crazy to hear from you, because when I think of someone who weeps over the loss, I think of you.

Like you're always thinking that way.

Yeah, but it's not as it should be, I don't think.

You know, that he that he he remembers our frailty, uh, that uh, you know, every man and his best state is vapor, you know.

But I think it's interesting, it's not just metaphoric.

We are dust.

Yeah.

And we're made from the dust of the earth, as it says in Genesis.

And then science comes along and says, We're made of stardust, and thinks they've found out something new, and the scriptures spoke of that thousands of years ago.

No.

We're made from the dust of the earth.

The same five elements that make up the soil make up the human body, which is very interesting.

Potassium and magnesium and all the azums.

Azums.

Uh I will say I I I had a very similar revelation um in Thessaloniki.

I don't know if you guys remember this, but we got done in Thessaloniki.

That's the modern city.

Oh, it's not like they changed the eye to the city.

They say it in modern, yeah, Thessaloniki, but yeah.

Um so we're we were there and we got done doing open air and doing one-on-ones.

And uh I just I had that I had a couple of really good conversations with people in the gospel in which they were wrestling, but but repentance and salvation wasn't the end result.

And of course, trust the Lord with planting the seed or whatever, but I just felt the reality of that these people that I'm talking to are hellbent.

I wasn't excited over the great conversation we got on video, I was lamenting the reality that their souls are still lost.

And so I I I I I know I I feel what you I'm I I hear what you're saying.

There are times where like I really sense the reality of what we're doing and why, and there's other times where I'm like, I don't know, just going through the motions.

Yeah, I hear did you go to Korointh?

We did.

We did, we went to Ramas.

You know, Oscar, as you as you say that, I I feel like a I don't know, a real deep grief in my soul.

Like, you know, you get hit with that reality where you just realize, like, man, there are so many times like I'm disconnected from the plight of the lost.

And I do go through the motions of sharing the gospel.

And it's not that we shouldn't because it's right to share the gospel, even when we're not feeling it, but like I do want to be connected because that's gonna stir me more, you know, that's gonna rouse me more to enter into their world.

And and I'm and I'm convicted to actually fast over this because we don't fast enough.

And and like I get a concern, and like we're talking about it now, I'm really like in a very distinct way, deeply struck in the core of my being.

But I know when lunch hits, it's gone, you know.

So I'm making a commitment before you guys that I want to really fast and intensely pray over this because I mean, of all the things Were you pointing to my book when you were saying that?

Idiotic, yeah.

Idiotic.

Can I have the money you were gonna spend on food?

Weep with those who weep.

Yeah, we feel your pain.

No, but but because if if there's anything that we should really be eager to get right, it's this.

Yeah, you know.

Um let me let me ask you guys this about like the weeping and rejoicing issue.

I've always felt distinctly with Jehovah's Witnesses in particular, that they have a hard time being normal with people.

What do I mean by that?

Like you talk about birthdays, you talk about Christmas, and they just like like they can't even nod, or like it's like they don't want to enter into your world, you know?

Telling me birthdays on Christmas Day.

Oh boy.

But do you guys ever feel that as believers, like, because I want to talk about how do we do this with the lost?

Like it's it's easier to do it with believers, but is there a way to enter into the world of the lost without compromising, but with them feeling a deep care and love from us in in areas of their lives that that are even foreign to us?

I I think that's a great question.

And and actually it harkens back to a lot of what I was reminded of on our trip.

Because what you know, one of the takeaways for me at least was recognizing how often Paul uh understood cultural context and infused his gospel presentation with exactly what was going around in this city.

Yeah, me too.

Right.

And so I think I think so often it's so easy for us to dismiss cultural context and just preach the word and just preach the gospel.

And for sure, we need to preach the word and we need to preach the gospel, but it's incumbent upon us to be um to to understand cultural apologetics, to understand the world around us, and then to be able to pull from what they're experiencing, pull from their longings, pull from their pain, and show them as as as uh as C.S.

Lewis said, like we, you know, when we're hungry, we have food.

When we thirsty, we have drink.

And in every single one of us, we long for God, but do not find that longing here on earth.

If if it's if we if we find in ourselves something we cannot satisfy on this earth, isn't it possible we're made for another one?

And I think our apologetics, our evangelism should take that in mind.

We should be aware of the longings of culture, aware of the sin of our culture, aware of the cultural context and the stories being told, and then find ways to redeem them.

That's what Paul did, that's what Augustine did in City of God.

And I believe that that's what the Lord has for us to do in this day and age.

You know, I um That's good.

I want to move from sympathy into empathy uh for the ungodly.

I remember how do you define the difference between the two?

Sympathy is when you say the empathy is when you enter into the pain of the person.

Like, I I know what it's like to stub my toe.

It sounds dumb, but a stub toe is just like I want to end this life right now.

If I had a button I could push, I would push the button, I'm off because it hurts so much.

You know what?

You know, I haven't finished yet.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Um or you burn your carry on, you see.

No, no, it'll be gonna be so stupid.

Go, go, go.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like you burn your finger on the toaster.

You say, I burnt my finger.

You feel that pain.

Or under a f what it's like to have a flame touch your finger.

And so that empathy helps me.

I remember I was at a Leighton Ford um meeting many years ago.

Heard of Leighton Ford?

Yes, of course.

Bit of grams offside, huh?

And he did the usual modern gospel thing, and I think he preached on the Rolling Stones, I can't get no satisfaction.

I can't get no satisfaction.

Satisfaction.

He struck around.

No, that's not it.

I don't think it was.

You nailed it.

You just made me feel unsatisfied.

No, Mick Jagger strutts around like a rooster.

Anyway, he was saying that that's what's missing in your life.

You need Jesus.

It was straight modern gospel.

And apparently, Sue Sue, my wife, was sitting next to me.

Her dad went, tell your husband to go up in the altar call.

And if Sue had passed that on, that little push, I probably would have gone up.

But I hadn't gone into lostness at that time.

I was thinking I was 18.

When I was maybe 19, who cares exactly how old I was?

We're men.

Men don't care about details.

It's 19, three months.

And and um I hadn't gone through my lostness.

And when I when I was 21, when I screamed out to God, not realizing I was crying out to God, why am I alive?

And the fear of death gripped me in the futility of life, and I wept.

Did you yawn?

No, I yawn with those who yawned.

And it's that lostness that makes me empathize with unsaved people when I say you're afraid of dying, and they say, Yeah.

And I just my heart goes out to them.

The the the scriptures uses the word scripture uses the word groping in the book of Acts.

I think it's Acts 17.

Groping, and that's what the ungodly are like.

They are groping for reality because they're in the blackness and the fear of death.

And I I know what fear is like.

To grip me, you cannot begin to imagine what a fearful thing it is gonna be to fall into the hands of the living God.

And I like the way the scriptures say, fall into the hands of the living God.

When you fall into the arms of the law or the hands of the law, you're falling guilty.

You're you're you're you're in big trouble.

And this world's in massive trouble with God.

And I can't begin to imagine the terror that's gonna be in their hearts.

And that's what continually motivates me to empathize with the unsaved.

No, you know, Ray, distinctly that this it stood out to me on our trip because one of the questions we were asking people is what are you is there anything you're afraid of in life?

What would you say you're afraid of most?

And I had two people say, I don't fear anything except death.

Yeah.

And it reminded me what you always remind people of, right?

Held captive by the fear of death all their lives.

And honestly, like even as we're talking, I'm starting to realize that's an area where I need to weep with those who are weeping in terms of the lost, and that I don't fear death as a believer.

Like I'm disconnected from that.

You know, because it's been 34 years I've been saved, so I forget what it's like to be a person wondering because I did before I got saved.

I'm like, what am I gonna go to hell or not?

Or you know, grown up Catholic.

But I'm disconnected from that.

I need to remember that that people are living in horror and that fear.

And and here was the here was the typical answer I was getting.

Well, what do you do about it?

I try not to think about it.

Yeah, I mean, that's really the only option is to put it out of your mind.

Keep yourself busy.

The analogy is that they're standing on the edge of a plane at night without a parachute 10,000 feet up and they're gonna jump any second.

That's a breathtaking horror.

And I love the way the amplified Bible says it.

The what Bible?

Amplified, it says um they are haunted by the fear of death all their lifetime.

Wow.

And so we've got to tap into that because God's given, He's put eternity on their heart.

Ecclesiastes 3 11.

Um Thank you, Jack Van MP.

That's exactly what I thought of when I said that.

But yeah, God's placed eternity heart.

So you're tapping into something God's put in there, you're making them alive.

Yeah, you're making them show interest, you're causing to thirst for the gospel when you tap into that will to live in it.

Something that should be motivated by empathy from us to do that continually.

Yeah, you know, right.

I was gonna what I was gonna say before was I'm glad you mentioned the stub to the toe thing.

Because I mean it's used proverbially uh as you know, oh, I stubbed my toe, poor guy, you know.

But in the moment, it feels like death.

But the the thing that makes me go crazy is not when I feel the pain in the moment, it's the instant knowledge that I know I'm gonna do it again.

And again, seriously, it's like, oh, I know it's because it's like, how did it happen again?

I know.

I got a question for you.

Oh, the pinky toe on the edge of the bed.

What do you do?

I actually do a dance.

Yeah, I do.

I jump around.

Try and get your mind on other things.

Chalkek, chalk getting, chalk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to shift gears a little bit and go back to weeping with those who weep.

Something that I think is an important to understand.

You brought up empathy.

Uh weeping and emp empathy should not take us away from truth.

And so you think like rejoice for those who rejoice, we would know immediately distinctly that that does not mean rejoice when someone's rejoicing over sin.

We wouldn't rejoice with them, right?

We would stop at that.

But weeping with those who weep uh also has a similar contingency, and that weeping should never end with just empathy.

Uh it we should also take into consideration truth.

And so let me give you like a context or an example.

Sometimes there is no truth to be said, you just simply weep with those who weep.

But other times, I've seen this happen in the church where someone is struggling, but the people around them are refusing to also point out the sin in their life.

It's like their weeping gets stuck with empathy.

I I've experienced, I've seen it happen where you know a woman's husband gets found out, he's sinned against her, he sinned against the church, but there's also stuff that she's involved with, and the church just refuses to hold her accountable or to show her certain things in her life, and and it they they get stuck with empathy.

Or I'll give you another example.

Just recently, about a month ago, I was talking to a young man in my life, and he was like lamenting this conversation that he had with his dad.

And I I weeped with him at first.

It was like, hey, you know, that thing he said or did, like, yeah, man, I I it makes sense that you're a hurt and offended by that.

Uh, I'm really sorry that happened.

But I also know this guy's dad.

I know him as a godly man.

And so it was also like, hey, now that we like, yeah, man, that that sucks.

But also, where do you think he's coming from in that situation?

And the end of the conversation, this young man goes, Oh man, I I didn't see that sin in my life.

Thank you for showing me that.

And so the point is weeping with those who weep, but not at the cost of truth.

We weep with those who weep, but we also are iron that sharpens iron.

And I think it takes wisdom and discernment on how to do that the right way and gently, but we can't ignore the reality that even though someone's struggling or weeping, sometimes they also need to be pointed back to the gospel or to the law.

That's so profound, man.

That's so true.

Because it's easy to get lost in that, right?

We we think it just means like, oh, you know, I understand, and that's it.

Sometimes it has to be that, and we know those areas where it's not a sin issue, but man, to go the next step because that's serving that person.

You know, it's I think it's the full package of weeping in in the sense that there should be, I mean, you know, God gives us tears for a reason.

He gives us emotions, grief for a reason.

Like there's healing as a part of that.

So that's like part of the full package of us serving them and blessing them.

I was watching a video of this uh lady who got arrested because she wouldn't give ID when she was pulled over and she was just giving the police a hard time.

Her husband worked for the Department of Defense, so she kind of had some you know arrogance about that.

But finally, like they open the door and she starts ah, kicking and screaming, and and they call, they you know, she had called her husband.

He's like, I'll be right there, and he came over.

But instead of like telling her, hey, you shouldn't be doing that, he kind of enabled the whole situation, and that's a perfect example of what you're talking about.

He defended her.

Department of Defense.

Yeah, yeah, very good.

Department of War now, Ray.

But you know, but that's a good example of someone who knows better that should be able to say, honey, I know you're going through some distress, but you need to comply with these officers.

Like, that's not good for you.

It's not smart what you're doing, you know.

I'm addicted to those videos.

Oh I can't stop it because you think this person's an idiot.

Just do what the officer says right now.

Do it.

How many times have you seen in those Ray?

Well, they'll go, they'll go, like, fine, arrest me, arrest me.

And then they do?

No!

They start begging them.

Are you seriously around what you told me to do?

Do what the officer says.

He's got a gun, you should do what he says.

Get out of the car now.

They slam the door and lock it, you think.

Are you crazy?

One of the biggest disservices of social media, all of these people now are emboldened to like try to get tough with the city.

I'm filming this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I don't have to show you my ID, you know.

It's like, man, it's crazy.

Get off.

Um I I I we need to look to Jesus to see when he wept.

He wept over Jerusalem.

Why?

Because he knew what was coming, the wrath that was going to come upon that city.

Those with child and all that he spoke of in in detail.

Yeah.

What was going to happen?

Was it Titus come down and must have been horrific?

But then he wept uh at Lazarus' funeral, ex-funeral, or post-funeral, whatever it was.

It was it was the Undertaker's nightmare that he gave the check, get the check back to the undertaker or from the undertaker.

But why did Jesus weep at Lazarus?

It's it seems very strange because he knew what he was going to do.

And the only conclusion I can find is that he empathized with the pain that they were going through at that present time.

Yeah.

Am I right?

He did not bypass the pain because he knew the outcome.

He he knew he knew the outcome.

He could have just said, What are you weeping for?

Yep.

Do you not realize this is what's going to happen?

You silly idiot.

No, he wouldn't have said that.

Right.

He I mean he he didn't do that.

He he didn't just meet theologically, he met emotionally.

He met people where they were at um at that exact moment.

And that's what we need to do.

We we need to be able to read the room.

Yeah.

You know, we I think that we have the ability to turn every situation and conversation back on ourselves.

And I walked on the moon, um which with Brian Regan, right?

It's I have a better story than you, right?

And Jesus was never like that.

You know, he met them exactly where they were at.

And I and I I want to be like that.

I want to be so dead where I could be like that, where he can do those things through me.

It's huge because we can participate in what I heard one person called spiritual bypassing, which is someone's weeping, and we're like, oh, don't worry about it.

Like God works all things out for those who Romans 8 28, brother.

Yep.

And we think like, okay, well, Romans 8 becomes comes before Romans 12, but that doesn't mean we should go there before we go, Romans 12.

Sometimes we need to weep first and then remind them and third.

And then remind them of the goodness and sovereignty of God.

And you're exactly right.

Jesus, what why did Jesus weep?

He was weeping over the consequences of sin that's ravished the world.

He was witnessing death.

Yeah and he was weeping over.

He knew the outcome, he knew the end of the story, but he still wept over the ravishes of sin on this world.

And and that means that we have a God who has empathy for that, which we go through.

That's one of my favorite memory verses.

Memory verses, Jesus wept.

Yes.

You keep getting it wrong, right?

Yeah, he didn't weep because he didn't have any power, he wept because he had compassion.

Yeah, so good.

Yeah, man.

You know, I really want to master the theology of shut-upianism to seriously learn to shut my mouth, especially when people are weeping, you know, because and what I mean by that, not okay, they don't have to literally be in a state of weeping before you, but you know, yeah, they're childless, you know, their their kids have gone astray and are and are struggling and battling.

Like, it doesn't mean we can never share great things that God is doing in our lives, but how are we doing it?

When are we doing it?

You know, like, oh, all my kids are walking with the Lord, praise God, they're doing great.

And then this, this kid's, you know, this guy's kids are are prodigals, you know, they're struggling.

Or, you know, yeah, we're pregnant for the 30 30th time, and you know, they're they're having infertility issues, you know.

Like, I think that's a form, sensitivity is a form of weeping with those who weep, like learning shut apology.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, so I call it shut your pie hology.

Cake hole.

Cake.

Yeah.

So okay, but then let's go to rejoicing.

We I think we we've hit weeping a lot, but Yeah.

Jazz hit what you want us to do?

Yeah.

But what what what's that look like?

You know, like what are practical things we can do to enter into a person's joy when we may even be struggling?

You know, have you got a raise?

Praise the Lord, give me some.

Yeah.

Praise the Lord.

Give me half, and I'll I'll rejoice.

Yeah.

I think I think that's a really good thing to bring up because maybe rejoicing with others rejoicing, that it becomes more clear that the thing that's holding us back is potentially sin.

You mentioned earlier the reality that envy, jealousy, you know, discontentment, pride, whatever the case, might prevent you from rejoicing.

What else would prevent you from rejoicing when someone else is rejoicing?

Uh, and and especially, yeah, I think as we bear each other's burdens, we also rejoice over each other's joys.

And so often the flesh will hold us back from that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you know, being able to um reach out to those that are in a in a place of joy and like give them sincere congratulations, uh, celebrate with them, maybe throw them a party, you know, if if it's something that would bless them, take them out to lunch, encourage them.

And it's not just, you know, I got a raise or a promotion, or how about like rejoicing in people's like growth and sanctification?

That's good.

And entering into that, like, man, that that demonstration of seeing growth in someone means the world to them, especially if it's it's someone who's been struggling with something for a long time.

Like that word of just like, man, I just want to say, I know you had a hard time with this.

I've been seeing you excel in this.

You know, I I think that's a form of being able to rejoice with it.

There's life in those words.

Yeah, yeah, giving life through through the words that we speak.

Um you know, you think about also, I'd love to talk about this a little bit, the demonstration to the world that we're his disciples.

Because weeping and rejoicing are a form of love, you know, and showing the world that we are his disciples by being able to do that.

Um and and not just as like this performance before people, hey, let us show you how we yesterday I was weeping.

But I think it carries on in our in our um sort of attitude because we're we're walking in sweetness of unity as believers.

You find yourself, I mean, as Christians, we have the ability to rejoice in the midst of crazy situations, and the world doesn't understand that, right?

I I mean you watch the memorial service of Charlie Kirk and you see Erica up there, she she was weeping, but she wasn't weeping as those who didn't have any hope.

No, and then you'd see the the world, different people commenting and saying, you know, I've lost a loved one, and she she obviously didn't care about her husband because she if she cared about her husband, she would not be able to almost be rejoicing the way she's rejoicing right now.

Like it our rejoicing is not contingent upon pay raises, right?

Our our rejoice we rejoice because our name is written in heaven, right?

That that's our that's the overarching big picture here.

We are just passing through this.

This is not our home, right?

And because this is not our home, we have the ability to rejoice when the rest of the world raises their fists at God.

We we never raise our fist at God, and we always find ourselves uh rejoicing in something, right?

What what can we be rejoicing at today?

Um, it's like the guy who complained, you know, who he didn't have any shoes until he saw the guy with no feet.

Wow, right?

I mean the guy with no brain.

The guy with no brain.

Why are we talking about easier right now?

He's literally right in front of us.

If I only had a brain.

So we there's always room as believers to rejoice, no matter how dire the situation is, uh, because the grass really is greener on the other side when we think that this isn't our own.

It's sometimes, sorry, it's sometimes uh rejoicing mechanical.

I mean, in what way, right?

I think that it we have a muscle memory, yeah, right?

That like when our enemy does us wrong, when we get a flat tire, when something negative happens, we have to remember that these are not issues in our life.

These are stepping stones to get us to where we need to be.

And this is why Romans 8.28 is so powerful because all things are working together for good.

I've often said, right, even your spouse's infidelity, your wayward child's rebellious actions, that financial difficulty, that cancerous news, they're just stepping stones to get us to be where we need to be so we can lift up holy hands in the middle of the night in the midst of our insomnia because God is at work in us both to will and to do for his good pleasure.

So we rejoice, especially as we mature in believers, as believers.

One of the most helpful little sayings that that I've heard and that I repeat to myself again and again is lead with your will, let your emotions follow.

That's good.

Lead with your will, let your emotions follow.

And what I mean by that, like there's so many things that we do that we may not feel like doing, but we know they're right.

Like, you know, someone comes to your door and and agreed to, you don't feel like welcoming a man, well, you do it.

You know, you you feel like, you know, saying rude and nasty things to your parents, well, you stop yourself and don't do it.

It's not wrong to do what we know is right if we're not feeling like doing it.

Like that's that's like self-control and righteousness, you know.

So I'd say, Ray, in answer to your question, it's like, yeah, sometimes the the steps could be mechanical, but that's not wrong.

Like, I'm gonna say the right things.

I'm gonna smile, I'm gonna, and if there's something wrong going on in my heart, that God, that's God's grace revealing to me my sinfulness, so I could take it to the Lord so he could sift it out.

But I'm gonna do what's right right now.

I'm gonna lead with my will, let my emotions follow, if they ever do.

That's besides the point, but I'm gonna lead with my will.

I think that's that's great because you know, when you're in a lion's den, all you can see is the lion's teeth.

Yeah.

And you've got to remind yourself that God's in control of those lions.

The Red Sea, no way of escape.

You've got to remind yourself, remind yourself that God's in control.

And you've got to remind yourself of Romans 8.28, often because you the problem is so looming, so big, you forget that to look behind it and say, Oh, God's working this out for my God.

Yeah.

I I love what you just said in regards to our obedience should outmeasure our emotions.

And going back to the context of Romans 12, it says, Do not repay evil for evil, right?

Like rejoicing, rejoicing is it is a spiritual discipline.

In other places, it calls us to pray for our enemies and turn the other cheek.

I'm just remembering just the other day, someone who sinned against me that has not asked for forgiveness, who is still sinning against me, I heard that.

The other day you were in Europe with us.

Uh yeah.

You heard me.

Uh and so I just want to say I'm sorry.

Yeah, and so this uh person who I work with who's sitting at this table.

No, um uh no, but you know, I heard that they got a job recently, and I sent him a text.

I hadn't spoken to him in a year.

Send him a text, hey man, I heard you got a job.

Congratulations.

Trying to rejoice, rejoicing in a way that that might feel mechanical.

Did you say to him, get a job?

Get a job.

No, it might feel mechanical, but I knew that I was supposed to do that in that moment.

You know, I had to be obedient to God's calling in my life and not just respond based on my feelings.

Oh, Oscar, this this brought something to mind, man, that that I'm I'm glad it brought up.

There's nothing worse than someone doing something for you that is right, and we respond with, you're just doing that because you have to, or you're just doing that because you, you know, you feel bad, or you're just doing that because you're guilty or whatever.

That's probably one of the worst things you could do for someone, you know.

And we all think it.

We all think it.

We all think, oh, well, they're just doing that because they're obligated, or they why not just receive it, man?

And and why is that?

Because we can all sympathize with that.

How many times have we just done something?

Yeah, because we felt it was right or whatever, but like, man, they're still doing it.

They could have fought it and not done it, you know.

So it's like in that whole realm, even especially with husbands and wives, this is where it really gets down.

Like you just, you know, you're just doing that because you know, you it you're just obligated or you're called to do that.

You're just obeying God in that.

Like we always throw our hands in the back.

Yeah, it's like it's usually like this.

Oh, okay.

It's like that.

It's like you like Gavin Newsom.

I love Mark's synchronization.

Do it, Margaret.

What do you say about Gavin Newsom?

With his hands.

Is that what he does?

Oh, but is that what he does?

Oh, you've been in Europe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's like a pointsman at an intersection.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyway, what we're talking about is the thought that heaven is a place of absolute joy.

In his presence, this fullness of joy, but there's something that makes heaven rejoice.

And that's in Luke 15.

Repentance.

Yeah.

When one sinner repents, there's more joy in heaven than over 99 righteous persons.

Wow.

What about when the person initially pents?

Well, then they don't go to the right.

Well, they've got to do it again.

You know that.

When Ray saying something absolutely profound, then easy.

Wasn't he in this book again?

Yeah.

Pent.

Oh man.

Yeah.

And I think of you know 1 Corinthians 12, 26.

Beautiful.

And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it.

Or if one member is honored, did you punch him?

No, it's trying to make pain on the phone.

But I mean, like I saw it coming and he still got me in the air.

Do you sympathize with the pain?

No, I was wanting to show that when his finger was broken, that the whole body would feel the pain.

They say, please stand for the reading of God's word.

We, on the other hand, just start poking each other.

Okay, carefully easy.

Yeah.

And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it.

Or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

And this is obviously in the analogy of Paul talking about the body.

Like, look, we're all one.

We're all united.

We're all connected.

And and you can draw on that for rejoicing too.

Like, that's the problem with the modern individualistic mindset.

Like it's all about me and my world and my kingdom versus like, man, okay, like I didn't score that touchdown.

I didn't score that game-winning buzzer beater, but our team won.

You know, like we're all getting rings.

We're all, you know.

So it's it's that mindset too of like, well, wow, this is good for the kingdom of God.

You know, kingdom-mindedness.

Like, if we can again find those areas in life like to master.

You know, people in in the world are always trying to master things.

You know, the juggler is juggling for hours, or the guy who hops on a pogo stick like all day, every day.

Do you know anyone who ever did that, Mark?

I'm picturing you.

You jumped on a pogo stick.

Tell us how long you'd do that for, was it?

I I would do it for like 10 hours.

Seriously?

In sixth grade, yeah.

You just wanted to be good.

Yeah, I wanted to get inside the Guinness Pika World Record on a pogo stick.

So it overheats, it gets really, really hot, you know, and you can lock it between your knees and your let your arms just kind of hang in.

Could you still do it today if I got your pogo stick?

Of course not.

It's like riding a bike.

No, it is not.

No, it's completely different than the real stick.

It's like riding a bike.

Yeah, but my point is like, why don't we why don't we perfect righteousness in our lives?

Like, because we're free to do so.

Like to not go with the whole, oh, well, you know, we're not saved by works.

Yeah, we got that.

Like, come on, we're we're beyond that now.

So let's because we're saved, redeemed, regenerated, let's be free and like saying, man, I want to, I want to fine-tune that, you know, I want to hone that in, like to understand what kingdom-mindedness means.

Because I think that changes everything.

Yeah, certainly.

You know, it it alters a the whole landscape.

So yeah, and and I mean, you think of that some of these Spurgeon, tears are the diamonds of heaven, size, the music of the spheres.

Could you say that again?

Yeah, I didn't follow.

Tears are the diamonds of heaven, size, the music of the spheres.

No.

The size.

Size.

Size, you impressive size.

Oh, S-I-Z-E.

I thought they're little diamonds.

Yeah, I get it.

No, you know, this reminded me too of a quote by by Piper in light of what you were saying earlier, um uh Oscar.

You guys know who Piper is?

Yes, Juan Piper?

Juan.

Juan Piperitos.

Christian joy and Christian weeping are not sequential, but simultaneous.

We are always sorrowful, yet always rejoicing.

As you said.

Ray, that's kind of what you talk about regarding the loss, right?

It's like there's underneath underneath our joy is this low-grade sorrow.

Man of sorrow is acquainted with grief.

Yeah.

If you don't acquaint yourself with grief, you won't have that sorrow.

Yeah.

And but and beneath the beneath those seasons of overarching grief, there's this underlying sorrow, uh joy.

Yeah.

Because we know who's overriding joy rather than underlying.

Yeah.

Overriding, underlying, all sorts, encircling.

Pogo sticking.

Pogo sticking.

Uh, you know, theologians often point to the reality that we live in the here and not yet, the in between Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension, and in waiting for his second coming.

The joy and sorrow, like joy doesn't replace sorrow in this in-between, but rather they're two sides of the same coin.

Why?

Yeah, because we can look back and know that God is the God that keeps his promises, that he has defeated death and suffering, that he has experienced the worst of suffering, so that one way one day those who are in Christ will no longer experience pain or suffering.

That God is the God who wipes our tears.

Like we say it so quickly, but it is it is the creator's hands that wipes away our tears in heaven.

That's incredible.

And yet we wait for that day.

We still experience the pain of momentary suffering because we live in a world that has fallen due to sin.

And so we live in this here and this not yet.

We experience both joy and suffering.

The joy knowing that God has defeated it, and the suffering actually works as a mechanism to point us to the reality that one day there will be no suffering.

The suffering reminds us of the gospel.

Amen.

Isn't that amazing?

We have a dream in the midst of the nightmare.

That's really good.

But you just made that up.

Yes.

Prideful.

If I hadn't said yes, I would have been lying.

So I Lying!

How many lies in your telling?

I'm still I'm still chewing on that.

That's really good.

Guys, listen to this from Tozo.

He said, compassion costs.

It is easy enough to argue, to criticize, and to condemn, but redemption is costly, and comfort draws from the deep places of the heart.

Oh man.

It's true.

It it costs, you know, it's easy.

It's it's automatic to be critical.

It's automatic to be cold, but but it takes work.

You know, it doesn't it doesn't cost me anything to lie in bed and not get up, you know?

It's that pulling myself out when I'm exhausted to to do something for someone or to serve them, you know.

But man, is it worth it?

Just seeing the text.

You don't even have to text, you can speak it now on your phones.

Uh Adrian Rogers, if love doesn't move you to tears at times and a rejoicing at others, it isn't the love of Christ, right?

Did Martin Lord joinze versus anything about it?

Yeah, listen to what he said.

The Christian is to feel deeply.

He must not be a stoic.

His faith engages his whole being, emotions included.

That's really good.

But did David Paul Tripp say anything about it?

So much.

Dude, how you read ice cream?

You have eyes like on that side of the wall, Oscar?

Yeah.

We put a camera on the wall linked up to Hosk's phone.

Anyway, guys.

This was this was a tonic for me.

You know, it really encouraged me.

And um like a gin and tonic?

Like an espresso tonic.

Gin and tonic.

What?

Espresso tonic.

So good.

Don't tell me there's such a thing.

Oh, it's delicious.

Really?

Oscar, is there no end to your knowledge of coffee stuff?

There's gotta be.

You just don't know where it is.

When we were in Europe, I'm not kidding.

I think that Oscar probably had five different coffee places in one day.

You didn't hear about the shortage of coffee in Europe because of Oscar.

I will say though, I got easy a coffee with no cream and he said it was good.

Okay.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Okay.

What?

True or false.

But did it have false in it?

True or false.

Were we talking about the nuts, the one with the nuts?

Yeah, it had no cream.

That was a good.

He had black coffee.

It was uh it was Turkish coffee with like nuts in it.

Like you could taste little pieces of nuts, but it was like that was pleasant.

Nuts drinking it.

All right.

That's it, friends.

There you have it.

Don't forget idiotic things.

People did in the Bible and all the other good stuff.

Remember, guys, we want your thoughts, questions, and beautiful comments.

Podcast at LivingWaters.com.

Remember to like wherever you listen and tell others about the podcast.

Thank you for joining us, friends.

We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast where we have no idea what we're doing.

You guys know you missed that.

I should have dedicated the book to you.