Today on Always Watching, we're discussing Stranger Things, Season five, episode five, shock Jock all that after these ads we have no control over.

Welcome back to Always Watching, the show where we talk about whatever geeky TV show we want.

I'm Ashley Coffin.

I'm Bill Bria, and I'm Mark Arkusha.

And we're back, baby, Yeah, we are back.

It's a little darker, it's a little scary.

It's a little bit more intense in here.

Yeah.

I thought you mean darker out because you could see my windows behind me, So I was like, yeah, it is dark.

You are We are all on the same Oh.

Yes, yes, yes we are.

Yeah, just like last time.

Yeah, this is the holiday season.

I mean, yeah, the holiday season, but also the holiday season of Stranger Things.

And did everybody Mark and I watched together, but you watched yesterday too and got it all out of the way.

Yep, anyone's sitting it.

They really the I mean, we're going to do our best here to pretend like we didn't watch the other episodes, but I feel like everybody probably has watched all three.

Yeah.

I feel like series two people understand, like you know, it is kind of a binged.

Not even binge worthy like binge intentional.

Yeah, show, so hopefully people get that, but we'll try.

All right, So this go ahead, Mark, Oh.

Yeah, I mean I've I've got my my notes per episode, so and there are some things that like I put in here and I'm like, oh is this and then you know, find out it's not.

But I'm still I'm gonna I'm gonna own up to.

Those me trying to read my notes today.

From the time we were on the third episode, I have like it's a shu and I was like, that's not even a word that I can guess what I was trying to talk.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, there's there's some time they get.

A little it gets a little hairy towards the vis in the dirt episode.

Okay, all right, So this episode picks up immediately after the Volume one finale.

Will has fully realized that he can tap into the psychic powers, but he kind of believes he failed because Becna now technically has all twelve of the missing children, including Holly, so Will.

Their plan is kind of to have Will use his connection to the Hive mind to try to locate and weaken Vecna, but it's also kind of dangerous as things usually are, But it was kind of cool to see Joyce finally stop being that helicopter mom and be like, no, you got to get in there and kill his ass.

Yeah, that was a big switch.

That was a big switch from like protect my boy to take my son and put him on the front lines.

I really do feel like, now that we've seen most of the back half of the season, I think that it makes in my mind more sense where they started with Joyce for the first half of the season in terms of like, oh, they were going there, so you know, the whole helicopter mom thing kind of pays off in the sense that now she's a little bit more supportive and proactive of her son in terms of you know, oh, wait, you can blow these guys up.

That's awesome, you know sort of thing.

Well, we're at the end of the line.

Yeah, and it's like we have to start making these tough choices.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

And it's it's interesting that Will's kind of ledger levering the unique link he has to Vecna and the upside Down and just like been putting together like, oh, I think I can get in his mind and mess up his landscape or whatever.

He's trying to do.

It's an interesting plot twist.

I still kind of don't understand how it all works, how he's like channeling into his powers.

Kind of it's pretty convenient.

Yeah, I think we we might mention uh In.

Then I think it's is it this one the next one?

Oh no, it's this one.

If I could skip ahead in the episode a little bit.

I don't know how, of course, Yeah, I think tunneling the reveal no, no, the reveal of uh, you know, doctor k using blood of Collie as trying to reprocate what doctor Brenner did with Henry's blood and the implication that this is maybe going to be done with Elevin's blood if Kay can get her hands on her.

I take that as like, okay, so we're using Henry slash Fecna as like this patient zero, guy who you know has these powers, has these abilities, and so therefore Will's abilities are not innate abilities as everyone.

They keep making the distinction between a sorcerer and a wizard in this, and I know probably Mark you have some thoughts on that, But before we get to that, I think that what they're trying to get across the Duffers and the writing staff.

Is this idea that like it's not coming from within Will so much as it is, So it's not a mutant power as per the X Men or something like that.

It's more, you know, I guess you could call it like doesn't it happen to Miss Marvel in the comics of like she gets something from or Carol Danvers gets something from.

I don't know, I could be wrong with the creed or whatever.

Maybe I'm making that up.

I shouldn't talk about that, but like, you know, this idea that like whatever blood has gotten into Will via Fecna Henry, it's that that he's using.

But he can use it because it's in him, but you know, it's still from another source sort of thing.

Yeah, it's not like eleven he's tapping into like emotional psychic tethering.

I guess we could call it from the trauma of being connected to the upside down.

So it's not like telekinesis like she has right right.

Yeah, So not to be a D and D nerd about this, but.

That's why you're here.

That's why I'm here.

I'm the D and D nerd.

So yeah, as I said in the other episodes, you know that.

Well, for one, you know, sorcerer as a class in D and D didn't didn't exist in the eighties.

Not till like nineteen or two thousand or something did it become a D and D class.

And you know they're talking about like, oh, you're a sorcerer, which means, you know, you have these innate powers, you're born with your powers.

But there's another class in a D and D, another magic using class called warlock.

And the warlocks whole thing is that they make a pact with a you know, a powerful being that they get their powers from.

So if anything, if any class magic using class in D and D would make sense for Will, it would be the warlock and that he's connected to this powerful being that he gets his powers from.

Yeah, that's yeah.

It feels like a little bit of a misstep there.

Not to conspiracy theory, but I wonder if they did realize that or thought of that, or somebody brought that up on staff and then they were like, oh, the warlock has like satanic panic connotation, so we can't use that term or something interesting.

I mean, the Satanic panic was such a big.

Plot line in the previous season, so I don't think they're really scared of that.

I think they just need to hire me as a D and D nerd.

I've been to you just for my um.

Actually absolutely, man.

Yeah, so we got we got a there's a lot, there's a lot, but a lot didn't happen.

Yeah, we got some Frankenstein in here.

Well, let me just talk about that for a second.

Because this was the last episode directed by as per the first half of the season.

Frank Craik Darabant, who co wrote Mary Shelley's Frankenstein the Kenneth Broanda one, So I like that's a little bit of a self reference.

And did he direct the mist.

Yes he did, Okay, yes he did.

Uh And he also co wrote Nightmare nel'street three Dream Warriors, which we see a cup of in this episode.

We really did.

This whole episode felt like a Stephen King movie of adaptation to me, It really really did.

Oh yeah, yeah, totally.

I think it's in the whole show.

But yeah, definitely, this this episode in particular is bringing up those vibes a lot.

I did.

I did really appreciate the whole Max Holly a plot of this episode in terms of going through Holly's memories, uh, and sort of retracing those steps of how Henry you know, sort of insidiously worked his way into her life and tried to abduct her and all that.

And Yeah, I just like the whole I guess, you know, almost an eternal sunshine of spotless mind thing of like going inside your own memories and like, you know, seeing things happen.

Yeah, that's fun.

Well that's what But that's what her D and D character that Mike was creating for her could do.

Right.

Yeah, she saw doorways and she could open them at any doorways as long as she had been there or remembered what it looked like.

So I thought that was really cool to incorporate.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's a nice character beat too, in the sense that I think a lot again this is trying not to presage or you know, foreshadow too much, but like I feel like a lot of this back half of the season is complicating the characters in their arcs in a way that is nuanced, you know, in the sense that Holly has this moment where she realizes, like, you know, she's a bit kind of like a cowardly lion, you know type where It's like, you know, she she has this you know, want to support her friends and be heroic and be you know, all this and be this character that Mike's created for her, but she has this fear that understandably like the Demogorgans are what twice her size?

They're pretty big.

Yeah, but heroic colleague is not scared.

Yeah, is not scared, so she wants to be there.

Vecna finally catching up with them.

That happened in this one, right they got into the house and he's choking Max out.

I'm at this point where I mean, I kept going to Mark.

I was like, who's going Who's gonna die?

It feels like anybody could kind of die at any point right now, And it's getting a little like, oh, is it her time?

And I'm feeling I want to stop doing it because I'm like, who's dying?

Yeah, well even my mother who's sitting right over there, So tell the mom she's waving.

She saw on Yahoo dot com, Uh, the typical SEO bullshit where you know, they wrote an article where it said who died a Stranger Thing Season five last night?

And I was like, I don't think anybody literally mil Yeah.

Yeah, we don't care about the mill.

They keep going.

Guys Randos or who died?

Yeah, well, watching Darry at the same time, I'm like, isn't this the same goddamn plot as Darry?

What are we doing right now?

But the spoilers with the Russians.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, those riskies, they were a problem for a few times.

That's why, very very stephen King.

I'm a Russian, I'm allowed to say it.

You're loud, You're allowed.

Yeah, But yeah, I really do like that that Henry got onto the pretty quick.

And then there's the poor uh you know, you know, Derek has his his crisis there where he has to sort of pretend to h to get along with.

It's a plan that that Max and howly you know, have him use him as a distraction where yeah, it's all we have to have dip ship back you know everything.

He's great.

He's great.

That kid is really yeah, and.

He plays the role so well and you just kind of believe him, like I've like, I'm like, you're doing all the things, kid.

So then we have our other group.

We have Nancy, Jonathan, Dustin, and Steve and they're at the Hawkings Lab and they're convinced that this enormous floating energy sphere thing is a is generating power in the upside down.

We don't really know what it is, but that shit looks crazy.

And then Dustin finds doctor Brenner's journal notes that destroying the energy will actually like trigger a catastrophic destruction both realities.

I feel like we're at the end, so I'm not going to really harp on.

Oh, here's the book with all the answers kind of stuff.

Let's move it along.

That's fine, it's fine.

Somebody had to have a book somewhere with a lot of answers in it in order for our characters to get.

Up to speed.

Yeah.

Either that or somebody had to have like a psychic download or something.

Right, some some craziness had to happen to have everybody sort of understand the higher metaphysics and also a dark magic that we have to deal with.

Yeah, these poor regular folks from Indiana.

Yeah, this, this, this episode speaking of the energy shield, is chuck full of, you know, a little references and illusions to all our favorite eighties Nostallgia stuff, you know, and and within that.

Is one of a callback to one of my favorite Steve.

Lines from I can't remember it's the last or season four or season three.

I think it's season four well, or maybe might be the end of season three when he's talking about the Star Wars and he's like, oh, it's your favorite movie is a Star Wars?

Which one?

Uh, the one with the Teddy Bears in it?

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

Then they he brings back the Teddy Bears, which which I loved, and then later, staying with that same analogy, Uh, Dustin says, and then we all get medals, and that I can't.

I wouldn't forgive myself if I didn't bring up justice for Chewbacca.

Chewbacca didn't get a medal, which was bullshit.

We all saw the raising Skywalker got for existing.

Yeah, yeah, it's like when you get it, it's like that the Oscar they just gaveed Tom Cruise.

Like honorary medal.

Yeah, here you go for Oscar for best running for forty years.

It should be a category though.

Yeah.

I also think the other best line in this one when heck heckna, when Henry Vecna, where'd you get this?

Map's like your mom?

Yes, yeah that's great.

Yeah, I really just hop Derek kills Vecna at the end.

Yeah, that'd be great.

Yeah, I'm still kind of confused what his plan is.

I'm kind of figuring it out.

But so we know that the kids are all from all one, that they were pretty much, you know, putting pregnant women in blood transfusions to get the babies, the babies to have the telic powers because he was able to do that ill, and that's what they're trying to do again.

But I don't know, but what is he doing?

So do you do you guys think all these kids might have unlike tapped in two powers, these twelve kids.

Yeah, there's a vagary there for sure.

I think that the old.

Can we talk about that at episode three?

Yeah?

Yeah, I think the only thing we know at this point, and really we don't get to know much more, is the fact that Henry Vecna thinks that these kids are special because they're the most weak, the most manipulative.

That's right, Yeah, And I'm like, that's not very deep.

Vecna kids are so stupid.

Yeah, but he thinks that too, obviously.

Yeah, because I do, like we'll talk about it more in the other episodes, But I did like the the implication that's going on with the whole facto side of things, and those kids in particular in terms of how easily manipulated they are.

Oh yeah, not Derek, Derek.

And speaking of references, and Derek, Derek had a great Samwise Gamgee reference there.

Not suck my fat.

Every suck my fat one is great.

But when when first of all, Derek rolling A must have been a NAT twenty on his stealth check to be able to you know, he's a rotund little gentleman, and for him to sneak up on Max and Holly was impressive.

But they say, what do you hear?

And he says, not much, just that you know, and whatever he says, I can't remember, but it's that it's that same.

I was, no eaves, not much, just about a ring and the end of the world.

And Sam Wys has been in the series before, so he was It's valid he was.

I would love to bring up what is my favorite scene of the episode, and maybe my favorite scene of these three episodes these new which is the Dustin and Steve fight.

Oh yeah, yeah, I was.

Yeah, let's let's talk about that now.

It's upsetting to watch and as you know, Steve's more obviously as an adult, and like, I love when they match each other's energies, but there's a point in there where you have to be like, Okay, this kid is traumatized and he's obviously very upset, and I just you know, always saying the wrong kind of thing, but it's one of those he's out of line, but he's not wrong kind of things.

But he said about Eddie, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no.

I just love the way that that Kiri and what's Dustin's actors, Gaiden Gayden worked together, and I think that scene has just proved positive of their chemistry as actors, because chemistry doesn't always have to mean oh they're getting along so great or oh they're in love or oh whatever, like they really are just you know, volleying so well in that in that moment to the point when it does break out to fisticuffs.

I think that if they hadn't been as good as they are, that scene would feel like you were just saying, Ashley, like, why are you beating up a kid?

You know?

Well, I playing defense?

Well, And that's Gaydon's at that age or Dustin's at that age where you're supposed to he's angsty, like preteen.

I don't know how all these freaking kids are, but he's at that.

Like that's what I was kind of getting from this entire season, is he's at that like angry, oh yeah, teen, but like justifiably so with everything going on, but he's like just he's not.

He's broken more than he's ever been throughout the seasons after losing Eddie, and you don't I didn't realize that that was It should have, but I didn't realize, like that's what it was all about him having these outbursts and being a little ship.

Yeah, pretty much for the last four episodes just given everybody to yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's something that's kind of represent and of like one of my problems with this batch of episodes is like this this the culmination of the Steve Dustin Feid.

It was great, but like it's it's been like you know this, like there's been so much of it, and like with with a lot of other things in this in this batch of episodes, it kind of gets like when they start a scene and like you're like, oh, this is a nice scene, and then you're like ten minutes into the scene, you're like, all right, yeah, and then like fifteen minutes and you're like, Okay, let's wrap it up now, like we get it.

You know, it feels a little overinflated in some ways.

I think, well, there's a long windedness that I think we'll definitely probably talk about the next two episodes.

Yeah, I think this one.

Yeah, the balance is pretty much there.

But I do think that, Yeah, I could see what you're getting at when you know, these these conversations have to happen emotionally, and I do think are well written enough that in the moment it feels truthful.

But at the same time, there's so many external issues that are going on.

Yeah, well that's what's funny about it.

Yeah, really, Yeah, it's hard to ignore harder to ignore it.

Yeah, as you're descending into a you know, a lab that's dangerous in the real world, you're descending into the upside down version.

Is now the time to have a relationship fight and be like shouting at each other?

I don't know exactly.

Well, and that's where I feel like it would, that's what really would happen.

But the emotional confrontations are kind of show highlighting how pressure, the pressure is fractioning all the relationships that we thought were super solid, Like I'm looking at you, Nancy and Jonathan, I feeling good luck you too.

All Right, we are going to take a quick break and we will be right back with a lot more from episode five, and we're back.

So I I did really enjoy the whole like Frankenstein plan to to not even resurrect the democ organ but just sort of activate its particles.

I remember, remember, I know that Lucas has this whole memory of when Billy.

Was in the sauna in season yeah.

Three three three, uh and uh and that was you know, that's I do.

I think I like what I what they're doing in terms of, uh, they're not giving, they're not pushing the sort of you know it's the end, Yet I feel like it's probably going to crop up in the finale.

The whole finale vibes that every show kind of gets into when when things are wrapping up.

But I do appreciate the effort on the writers and director's part for this last season to try and tie everything together lore wise, I guess in terms of you know, what the upside down is and how it works and why it does this and why this has been, and I'd like that even something as small as like, oh that when Billy was in the sauna, like, you know, he really reacted to being hot, you know, And so we have that as a new jumping off point for Oh, we can use electricity to you know, bring the particles out and that's going to activate the high mind and then Will culdap into it and all that sort of thing.

It sounds pseudo scientifically scientific enough for me to go like, yeah, of course that's how he works.

Yeah, that's a shock jock.

I guess it wasn't so much about I thought it was going to have a lot more to do with the like radio station, but it's more the electricity and the shock and the chaos kind of that comes from using electricity to contact the hive.

Mine.

Sure, I don't care.

It's fine jock of the group because he was on the basketball team.

Ah okay, also true.

Yeah, I really like the scene where Will and Beckna kind of match up.

I thought that they filmed it really cool because I mean, Jamie Jamie Bower get a three namer.

You could tell like he had to do those scenes three times and do it perfectly in three different characters in three different clothes and have everything kind of time out.

When they shot that, I thought that, like from a techie side, I was like, that was probably really challenging to film.

And then you have to mirror with Will and it has to it all has to work.

And I am going to say that that kid is impressing me.

Every every episode we go farther, Noah, whatever, he's I'm liking him more and more and I'm like, wow, finally, because I couldn't.

I couldn't give a shit about Will lot Eslie for the last couple seasons, and now I'm like, Okay, yeah.

It really doesn't feel like this whole season has pointed towards paying off his character.

It's about time.

Yeah, and really, you know, giving him the weight in terms of just having him be the first victim or even the second victim in the second season, you know that sort of idea of.

Like, oh, it's Will.

He just as used as the upside down spunching bag, you know, And it feels like they're at least trying to acknowledge like, Okay, this is what would happen to a kid if he had to grow up as the upside downs punching bag.

You know, or Vecta's punching bag, and yeah, I really did.

I love that scene too, ash I, I love you know, both sides of it.

I love what it does for Holly and Max but also for Will and Vecna, And you know, it does feel it feels like in these these back three we don't get sort of the biggest follow up to the ending of Sorcerer of the fourth episode, but this scene feels like the most closest to that, of like just taking over back to his body long enough to like yell at Max and Holly to run.

He was like, girl, you better get the out of there.

So I like that as a payoff at least.

So yeah, kind of when we get to the end, the groups have split up, I was like, how do you guys just leave't they?

So Hopper and l were supposed to meet up with Dustin and everybody, but that just kind of never happens, and they split up, and Dustin and Steve are going off on their little fight thing and that's when they find the book and Dustin's they get out and they're trying to get in touch with them.

Inside with Nancy.

They're just like floors.

I guess that is what.

The geography of that lab is not clear, but uh, I think they were just this is.

When they all started melted, like all the melty stuff.

Jonathan and Nancy find like some residue of melty stuff and they're like, what's this and we should follow the trail, and that's how they eventually make their way up to the sphere of.

The roof, you know, and then they that's where they see the h yeah, the sphere thing.

Yeah yeah, and it's.

Like I should shoot it, yeah, because you're still we're still on the planet, Like this is the shield generator.

We got to just blow it up, you know sort of thing.

And that was the second time I thought people were dead.

Hey, you know what, Hey, here's the subtext for everybody who likes to criticize this show for being just like a parade of references of eighties nostalgia and all that.

You know, here's an instance in the show itself where eighties nostalgia works against them.

It's like, it was just like Return of the Jedi, we should just blow it up and no, you're not supposed to see can we believe everything you.

Believe in seeing movies?

You know sort of thing.

Well, someone who lived through the eighties.

The two most ubiquitouy.

I did like that you singled yourself out as the only person here has been born in the eighties.

Well, no, I lived through the eighties.

I wasn't I really wasn't living.

I was just sort of breathing.

You get busy living or get busy dying.

I was born in eighty one, so like I have a I have a.

I remember a lot of the eighties.

And ecdo cool That was great to see love ecdo cooler.

And the other thing.

If you were alive in the if you were of an age in the eighties where your friends were like taking piano lessons, you know how often you heard.

Chopsticks like I have the same note got.

Played so much, probably somewhat because of Big, but also.

You know, it's the only thing I know how to play on a piano.

Yeahs it's hard and soul, heart and soul.

Sorry, yeah, I get back again because of Big, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's true.

As soon as they started playing and I was like, yeah that was a song, every kid was like, look like I could play sort of thing if they were you know, fancy.

In the first few chords of Beethoven.

Everybody can go do do so what I did?

Ye, I can play the piano.

Yeah, so we we kind of are left not knowing what happens.

They get like smashed with some kind of energy, just as we found out from Dustin that you know, this is going to be an incursion or something.

It sounds very endgame to me.

All of this stuff that we're doing here sounds very marvel But yeah, I just uh, I don't know, I don't know.

I hope everybody's okay.

I'm sure they'll be fine.

Yeah, yeah, No, it's uh, it's it definitely is is ramping up the sort of doom state of you know, things are gonna happen that are cataclysmic.

I think that ultimately, Yeah, this this season really is trying to juggle this idea of such a huge kind of coming, because every season of the series thus far has had a big climax of like, you know, if we don't stop the mind flame, like it's gonna coming, it's good, you know sort of stuff.

So I feel like they've had to try and juggle a long game of Okay, here's how much more cataclysmic can get, which, you know, can risk the can run the risk of excess.

But we shall see.

Yeah, did we know that Will could also jump into the kid like didn't He's look through Derek's eyes too at one point when he was looking for Holly.

Right, yeah it was Derek as it was Vecna as Derek.

Okay, Beca had jumped into Derek.

Yeah.

There were the kids kicking each other's asses in this like The Warriors?

Was that this episode?

No?

Okay, yeah that's next or.

Yeah, I have a note in this one that says, these kids are kicking each other's.

Ass because yeah, all the kids that are in Henry's you know, dream house or whatever, Henry's dream house, it sounds like a Barbie place at Yeah, it's they're all technically in Vecna's mind.

They're all in Yeah, so Will can tap into any of their kids's minds because they're already part of VECNA.

But he's still using Vecna as a conduit, is the point?

Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

Yeah.

And I feel like somebody made a comment like, if you're doing that, don't forget.

Like it goes both ways.

Like when you look into the darkness, the darkness probably is looking back at you.

Yeah, they're kind of not Well.

That's a little bit of what is it, Lord of the Rings, that's bit of palnteer stuff, right, Yeah, you could use the palenteer to like look but.

Yeah it sounds like yeah, yeah, what are you doing?

I see you?

That's funny.

All right, anymore, any any final thoughts before we kind of wrap this up.

Those those military guys they really tasted the ship out of Collie in that oh yeah little flash.

It was like four five guys just tasting her at the same time.

Like that's a lot tasting.

Yeah, pretty powerful though, Yeah, I don't know how how much Like.

I guess they really didn't like that season two episode either.

Yeah, yeahs did.

She have her v for vend at a moment and this is this where we talk about her story.

Oh, they shaved that little girl's hair.

I would have been crying too, because that was that was real as hell and it upset me.

Yeah, that's harsh.

You know, not the steal in her blood, not into the inoculating babies and burma or whatever they're doing.

But I know, I know it went by pretty fast, so maybe he didn't.

You didn't have a chance, but do you we think that they shot that flashback scene first with her with a full head of hair, and then they actually shaved it.

Yeah okay, yeah, oh they really they shaved.

That's why that's her Natalie Portman moment.

Yeah, it was upsetting.

Yeah, okay, Well.

She rocks it.

She actually looks really good with the shaved head.

I still I don't like her though.

There's even some when we were talking about it back before, like her little group of friends.

I just don't trust her or her motivations.

Well yeah, yeah, yeah, whopper, get more into that.

Yeah all right, yeah.

So we have energy spheres, we have incursions, we have Vecna, we have will and we will see what happens next.

Anybody want to tell the people where to find you.

I'm at Bill Bria on most socials and also co host Bill Nashe's stra Theater this very network.

Yeah, I'm at Mark Dmitri m A r K D M I t RI I on most of the socials, and you can find my audio books on Audible under my name Mark Arkusha.

All right, guys, we will see you at the next episode.

Thank you for listening to Pandavision.

We are a member of the Stranded Panda

Network for all of our podcasts and other creative geeky projects, check out strandedpanda dot com.