Okay, we're gonna go down a rabbit hole here.

We're gonna talk about a subject that no, lie, if I say too much, could get me canceled.

But I think it's gonna be worth it.

And yes, Islam has something to do with this.

Welcome to the show.

We have an interesting topic to run down today.

You're gonna get a glimpse into man and ize our text, messages, conversations.

Almost daily, we're walking through these type of topics, and so it's interesting when we do a podcast like this, people are really just kind of taking a peek into things that we already unpack.

And you get to see last week's like Wednesday episode where we responded to videos.

It kind of starts with those and then moves into a conversation.

Very much so we'll see that, we'll see a topic or something come up, somebody's that says something, and then you and I will talk and.

And this time we hit record.

And this time we actually hit record, although we have talked for thirty or forty five minutes at maybe maybe an hour before we've hit record.

Today, but we're going to bring people in on a topic that is I believe highly controversial and and I have.

I have thought that there are certain aspects of this topic that if I actually said in the public, I would get canceled, not because not because it's dangerous to say what I'm saying, but simply because it would be taken out of context.

Yes, and that's happened to you before, happened a conversation you know I had before we started on.

You could say, you could say an entire thesis that that's five to ten minutes long, and you could take one line out of it and take it out of context.

It could be used as a weapon against me.

But not because once again, not because the person hearing it would disagree if they actually knew the context, because it was STRAWMND and taken taken out of context.

So what are we talking about here?

And lead us into something here?

Okay?

So something that I personally have had an issue with that I didn't talk a lot about.

But then I started, you know, when when Body passed away, I started listening and watching some of his videos and he addressed this, and I thought, oh, this is interesting.

Here is a.

Different race, black preacher and he is being asked if he is a Christian nationalist.

I've heard it used, and more times than not, I've heard that phrase used in a you don't want to be this?

Or man, can you believe?

Those?

Was Christian nationalists?

And I'm like, if I'm being honest, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

Which the same thing.

Vodie argues like, I have to figure out what you mean by that question.

Yeah, and then Charlie kirk Thing has kind of elevated discussions.

And that's and that really is like, oh, those who agreed with with Charlie, those are Christian nationalists And it's have you ever been called a name, like a derogatory name?

You're like, am I supposed to be?

Am I supposed to be offended?

I'm not sure.

I'm not even sure what you mean, but like, am I supposed to like no, no, no, that's not me?

Or am I like?

Well maybe I am?

Or it's like did you just insult me?

I can't tell because you don't know.

And that's kind of how I felt about this.

I'm like, well, I love my country, I love my God more does that make me one?

I'm not sure?

So you and I've had conversations about this, what it means to be that and.

It's also why we didn't title the podcast.

That's because it's you could widely misinterpret what we even mean.

So we can look at the title and go, I'm skipping that because that it's not what I am, or I don't care about that.

Well, the point of it was, well, there's actually many different definitions, and you could be unknowingly or you could be knowingly you don't know, or I didn't at least, but I'll just speak from.

My Yeah, So I'm sitting here.

I typically have had some lately, we've had some notes.

You and I don't have any notes today, just the Bible.

You have some things that you've looked up, So why don't we do it this way?

You define Christian nationalism.

There's really three different definitions of what people mean by that by that title.

And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do the best I can.

I'm gonna listen to what you're saying and then and think about think biblically about those definitions, see where it lines up where it doesn't.

And this is one of these podcasts where I could, especially if you're listening right now and you want to comment below, do that because I'm gonna think as you're talking, I'm gonna try to find some places in the Bible we can align with.

And then tomorrow might come and you know, I might wake up tomorrow, gough.

I missed something.

I didn't say something, which is the danger of not having any notes.

But let's run it this way.

That is our conversation.

This is just a conversation between you and I.

Let's do it, which is.

Three, So we'll call them A, B, and C.

A would be your civic identity definition.

I'll explain that here in a minute.

The second one, or B would be faith based slash theological critique definition.

And the third one or C would be sociological or political power definition.

Just off those titles kind of gives you an area, an idea of what direction these go in.

Let's start with A, so before we get into that.

So what we're talking about here is we're trying to see if where loving America begins to intersect with faith, there you go and therefore becomes dangerous to your maturity in Christ and possibly even tru mental to your faith because because of what it could become an idol exactly.

And I think that's what we'll get to is that if you're if if your definition aligns with one that has parody of the nation with that of Christ's kingdom, You're going to be in a big issue.

You're going to have a big issue.

And the reason this is a sensitive topic for me and you know, could get canceled then you know, that's what we probably call this podcast is because I'm literally the guy that sings the song America.

You know, however many years that was eleven years ago or whatever you.

Did you did you sing that or did well?

Zero dibbles, Jane Dibbles and so you know, ye nation.

It's kind of spawned out of this ultra ultra national love for the red, white.

And blue wrint.

What do you got?

I'll give you, uh, the first one, which is a definition, a civic identity.

Definition America is a Christian nation perspective, that's something you've heard before.

And that would that would not be an opinion.

We would just we would look at it as like Pakistan is an Islamic nation, Israel is a Jewish nation.

That's what that means.

The core idea of this is the belief that a nation's identity or culture, cultural culture and laws should be rooted in Christianity.

Okay, so some key points here.

Sees Christianity as this as central to national identity and values.

Often promotes policies reflecting Biblical or Christian morals.

Don't steal, don't kill.

Believes government should acknowledge or even endorse Christianity.

Say that again.

Believers believes government the government should acknowledge or even endorse Christianity, which.

We see, you know, God bless America.

Views founding documents like the US Constitution as inspired by Christian principles.

Supporters may argue it perceives moral order and national unity, and critics warn it can marginalize non Christians and blur church state separation.

That's the only kind of key point that I would say, if I just had to define myself, this is where I find myself.

United States Christian nation.

Believe that, and for me, the nation is second to the Kingdom of Christ.

It is falling in order under the headship of our Lord, and that everything falls under that.

I believe that that's what That's the definition if I just said to someone was what I would get out of it.

Any thoughts on.

Those, Yeah, I'm tracking.

So let me start with this.

Do you believe that to be true, that we are a Christian nation and our our our founding documents were inspired by Christian ideals.

You know, I'm not.

I didn't study history like you and I dead obvious in high school.

But I didn't.

I didn't do anything in college, and so you probably know a little bit more about this and facts when it comes to that.

Everything that I have in the limited research that I've done, I've always been led to believe, Yes, our nation was it didn't want to be under the thumb of religion, but it was under the freedom found in Christ.

That's what I got out of it.

Okay, I yeah, I don't.

I don't disagree that we would call it, call us a Christian nation, and that our documents, such as Declaration of Independence and that Constitution would be inspired by Christian values.

I don't say any problem with saying that, because what we're not saying that the founding fathers were all Christian.

No, and I don't have to.

Say that, Yeah, we don't have to say that for that to be true.

You see a lot of reflection though, and I've seen examples of this, But I believe of judges in the Bible, some of the reflections of that in our government today.

Examples I can't give you off hand, just in pasting comments and other videos that I've seen, in conversations that I've had, I've seen comparisons there that we get this from this and and that's where I believe that it was inspired by the Bible.

The foundation of this country was at least yeah, and I'm sure comments.

Yeah, that's a rabbit hole.

That's a rabbit hole.

Lets sidestep that because we don't just not necessary, I don't think because we're going to try to watch our time here.

I'm trying to think if I should continue with this or you go to the second one, and then.

I think they're kind of yeah, and you can tie some of it to character or find the parallels and find the differences too.

So b would be the faith based slash theological critique definition, and this is a political idolatry perspective, that being the core idea a warning that Christian nationalism confuses faith in Christ with loyalty to a country or political movement.

Key points here defines it as a distortion of the Gospel that elevates nationalism above Jesus Kingdom or let's just say parody with Jesus Kingdom.

You know what is is is just as big as Jesus Kingdom, as Jesus as Jesus Kingdom is our nation.

It's right up there, right right next to it, sitting side by side.

And I don't think anyone actually admits that.

I think they live they live it, live it.

No one says that.

Their comments scream it.

Yeah.

I think this is where it starts getting.

No one says that.

Everyone goes, you know, God first, God, God, family country.

You know, how is that the order?

Yeah, and but you they do they say God, family country, and instead what they do is they they're not doing it from top to bottom.

They're doing it from left to right.

Oh yeah, that's a good way to look at.

Yeah, it's just a left to right on that.

Okay.

Another one often marked by exclusion, pride, or moral superiority in the name of faith.

Yeah, so think about that.

Yep, theologically viewed as idolatry, putting country before God.

Or like I said, always says that, But they live it.

And that's it.

Forget what I say, watch what I do.

That's right, you know, that's where I think that that's where you got to look at emphasizes that the Kingdom of God transcends all earthly nations.

Many pastors, theologians, and believers warrant it harms that it harms the church's witness.

I don't know on that part.

I'd have to dig into that a little bit.

But the first half of that tied into a give a me feelings on those.

Yet.

Okay, So see this one's sociological slash political power definition, cultural framework, or ideology perspective.

The core idea here is a social ideology that merges national belonging with Christian, often white, often conservative, cultural identity.

Okay, okay, so some key points here.

It links being truly American with being Christian, often associated with protecting perceived cultural dominance, so over other cultures values, law and order, traditional gender roles, and patriotism as Christian virtues.

Uses religious language to justify political or cultural power viewed by scholars as a threat to pluralism and democratic equality.

And then it can appear in both political movements and social attitudes, not just churches.

And the common question is Christian nationalism about faith or about power and identity?

Okay?

So, so c encompasses a and B as well.

Yeah, you can't be C unless you're also A and B.

Correct.

It's you're combining everything.

It's yeah, I think you're right on that.

And A is like the cleanest version of that, right.

The cleanest, the most pure.

It feels like of it being.

Let's just saying, hey, we're a Christian nation, and when we say that, we mean we were founded on Christian ideals.

The documents were inspired.

Not that everybody is a Christian.

Yeah, you have the freedom of religion.

At NASCAR events, they're gonna say Jesus.

Yeah, they're going to say in Jesus name is Jesus.

Name, and NASCAR race and have a prayer and they're going to.

Pray, and they're all gonna put their hand on their heart for the national anthem.

Yes, and that's something I would say that, that's something would you would you agree?

Can change?

You can't change the the inspiration of the founding documents or the way the country.

Started, but you can change what you do.

But you could shoot that the whole nation could move away from that.

Yes, and I would say that we have, but we have seen that and that could be a different pay.

But we're still praying at NASCAR events gone, it's not gone yet.

But we're not praying at football games, and which.

That's something that recently went away.

Well, I mean I think probably, I think that went away probably when we were in high school.

Yeah, middle school.

I remember that being an issue where we did pray on one game and then next year.

The president still says God bless America.

Yes, right, yeah, yeah, someday I would imagine someday soon that won't be said taking off money maybe, yeah.

And once again, we're not we're not saying that the person in the office that says that it needs to be a Christian.

It's more so a tradition that we do.

It's same with the NASCAR event.

It doesn't mean most people at the NASCAR race are Christian, right because the prayer said, it's just more of a this is what we do.

This is what we do.

That's what we do.

That's a that's a yeah.

So I think that you progressively in these three different versions, you get more I think radicalized might be the wrong word, but you get more radical about your opinion, if that makes more sense.

As the further you go along, It's like, if you're not one of us, you can get out.

Yeah, you know, that's what it feels like and and listen when you and that's that's been my my complaint about the use of the phrase he or she is a Christian nationalist.

Look which one of those three are you talking about, because they're drastically different from one from A to C.

Yeah, you know, you get progressively more intense.

Yeah, So let's just talk about how we live these things out because definitions don't matter, you know, as much.

As the action.

How we Yeah, what are our actions?

We might say, you know, God first and everything, but we might mean God and my wife equally first, or God and my kids equally first.

That's the same kind of idolatry.

Idolatry for country, or idolatry for a Lamborghini, or idolatry for a career or a dream or a kid is all idolatry.

It all puts something ahead of God.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it is evil, agreed.

So let's let's kind of look through a biblical lens.

There are a lot of ways to do this.

Let's start with with thinking through something interesting.

People would say, we are blessed to live in America.

Why would we we should think about that?

We should start there, because it is a blessing to live in America.

It is, it is, But what do we mean by that?

Because biblically, when we look at the New Testament, after the incarnation of the Messiah comes and becomes the fulfillment of Israel, which we talked about a few podcasts ago, blessing is no longer seen ever as material.

In the New Testament, no one says, I am blessed.

The Lord has blessed me, and you're talking about a good job, a good house, a healthy, healthy family, a nothing material.

Now in the Old Testament it is, but that's a different that's a that was leading, that was pointing to Christ.

But once the coming of Christ happens, blessing is seen differently.

And so, for instance, to receive material wealth of any kind is now seen in the New test State as an opportunity for stewardship, faithful stewardship.

So you you would say, you're you get a raise at work, it's not that.

Well, now I get more money in the bank.

It's now I have almost there's almost a burden of Now I have a greater responsibility to steward this money well and faithfully, and particularly for the vulnerable neighbors, loving your neighbor as yourself.

WHOA, that's that's a crazy thought.

But I would challenge anyone to look through, uh, look through these pages and find any different.

They are blessed in suffering.

It's not the only way that they're blessed in the New Testament, but they rejoice and they count it as blessed to be persecuted for the name of Christ.

Yeah, I was, I was ringing that this morning when Paul and Barnabas were.

I forgot where they were, but they they they come and they stone Paul.

Yeah, and he gets back up.

They thought he was dead.

He gets back up and he goes back into town.

Yeah.

And that he told He's like, hey, we should expect this, We should expect for the sake of Christ to be persecuted like this expected it's.

Coming, And they counted it as a blessing.

Yeah.

Joy So, So, which is just let's say, rather than push past that request real quick.

That is so contrary to two things your human nature.

Yeah yeah, the flesh in the American life.

Yeah yeah, the Americans and the American dream.

It's the opposite.

Yeah.

So everything everything that we think in our flesh wants, and what the American culture kind of propagates is this idea that I need to make money so I could retire and move to Florida and and live out my days with my soulmate and the grandkids in my awesome condo, just kind of reading books on the beach every day.

Where where?

Where is that that?

That's a that's foreign to the Bible.

Instead, we are we have a finite amount of days left.

We have.

This life is a vapor we have.

We only have, We only have so much of an opportunity it being called into the ministry that we're called into, and everybody that's a Christian is in ministry.

Yeah, that's that's kind of a that's right that we need to say that.

But but there is we we should have a sense of urgency that everything, everything given to us is from the Lord and must be stewarded faithfully for the the spread of the Gospel to all nations and the the to be a good neighbor to anyone that we come in contact with, and that would start in our house and move out to our church and then move out into our neighborhoods.

And I'm not I'm not sitting here talking about mission work here.

That's that's a that's kind of an overflow of of the church itself.

But we don't have that much longer me you, everyone that's listening.

And every day the Lord wakes us up again and we open our eyes and we're his again.

He's given us and his sovereignty one more day, of course, and and there's nothing more guaranteed.

And so but we have been taught by our culture to build portfolios and resumes and four one k's and savings accounts and back up savings accounts, and you know, and and you don't see that, especially through as you read through the letters of the New Testament, you read through the Book of Acts.

In fact, there is no there's no attachment to a country in the New Testament.

It doesn't mean they can't you can't love and feel comfortable where you live, and that it doesn't mean that you shouldn't feel like you could put down roots and settle.

But where you're settled, it's kind of like the you know, the Lord has planted you in a field, and we we tend to the field where we're planted.

And without the tending, that would be unfaithful.

So there's that that aspect of just the blessing itself as we track.

As we track, you mentioned Paul, I think that's a good place to go.

So let me go to Acts here.

And e Conium where they were.

Yeah, because I just opened it up and that's what YE was.

So go let's go before Paul, we can go to to Peter and John.

I believe we're gonna go to Acts four x one I Act four.

Oh yeah, So Peter and John, the they are, they're out there preaching and they they heal a a beggar, a lame beggar.

This is this happens in chapter three of Acts.

They heal a lame beggar and it just causes all kinds of stuff, Like people are just freaked out by this, right, yeah, now this man and all of a sudden he's money.

Yeah, and they're they're they're not the guy.

People are are like, what this guy, these guys must be you know, like mystic, you know, spiritist or something.

This is wild.

What kind of magic could bring this guy back to life?

We see this a lot in the Book of Acts and and so they're brought in.

Peter and John are brought in before the Council at the beginning of chapter four, and the Sadducees.

So as they were speaking to the people in priest and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came upon them.

So the Sadducees and the Pharisees were the ruling bodies, the ruling governance of the Jewish people, whause we're in Jerusalem here as we're talking about this story.

I'm not in a verse yet, just talking about the beginning of chapter four.

So they arrest them.

They have the power to arrest.

They are the ruling governance here.

They arrest Peter and John because they're out there speaking, and verse three says, and they arrested them and put them in custody until the next day, for it was already evening.

But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand.

The church is growing, and it's growing by preaching.

People are hearing and believing, right, so they're proclaiming the Gospel.

People hear it and they believe.

At this point, Peter and John don't have any other interest in life than being faithful and this mission, this ministry to tell people to be reconciled to God.

God is calling all people to be reconciled to Him.

Turn from yourself, turn from your idols, and turn from Him.

And then now on the next day, they're rulers and elders and scribes gathered together in Jerusalem, and Annas the high priest, and Caiaphist, and John and Alexander and all who are there in the high priestly family.

This is the whole body, the whole ruling body gets together, and they're really angry at this.

They pulled Peter in.

He's filled with the Holy Spirit.

He tells them what he's doing.

He tells them the gospel.

He says, Jesus Christ, whom you crucified, you know.

He calls them out verse thirteen.

Now the people saw the boldness of Peter and John and perceived that they were uneducated common men, that they were astonished.

They recognized they'd been with Jesus.

So they saw this boldness of this same Peter that denied Jesus in the garden just virtual weeks before this, right, So they warn them down, I'm just kind of skimming here.

Verse seventeen.

They warn them, do not speak of this anymore.

Stop talking about this Jesus thing.

Don't do it.

You know we're giving you a command from governing authorities.

Don't do this anymore.

Charge them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus.

That's verse eighteen and verse nineteen.

Peter and John answered them, whether it is right on the side of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.

They are astonished by this boldness.

And then if we go to chapter five, this story kind of continues because now these guys have this reputation.

And chapter five, verse eighteen, they arrested the apostles and put them in public prison.

So now these guys are still out preaching.

They have now gone against what has been said.

But notice when these guys get arrested, they don't resist the arrest.

That's an interesting thing we should see.

There's never a resisting of arrest.

We will see Paul later in a few chapters get let down in a basket outside of the window when they know that they might be coming for them.

But then later Paul submits to being arrested.

So you see that they are boldly proclaiming Christ against the ruling authorities, saying that we can't, we can't but speak Christ.

But when they come to arrest them and beat them, they submit.

They don't fight, They don't resist this.

They don't run, they don't form a militia, they don't form an army.

They don't even flee.

They just go take me.

But I'm just telling you, I'm I'm gonna keep speaking Christ.

Right, you're gonna take me.

So in this instance, verse twenty twenty eight, saying we strictly charged you not to preach in the name.

Yet you have, you have fuilled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

But Peter and the apostles answered, we must obey God rather than men.

Okay, So still they're being bold in this way, but they don't resist the governing authorities.

This is so interesting, and it's so anti American.

Anti America says, we'll put man, I put my sword in the sand.

Come and take us.

You know we you know I've got my gun cocked ready to go.

You you come my property, I'm gonna blow your head.

You know this is the This is the mentality of the American Christian essentially.

So then if you look at the end of Acts five, I promise I have a point to this stuff.

At the end of Acts five they are in prison, and verse forty and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and then they let them go Verse forty one.

They left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name verse forty two.

And every day in the temple and from house to house they did not cease teaching and preaching that Christ is Jesus.

Fascinating stuff.

We see this on and on and on through the New Testament, especially as we can kind of track this through the Book of Acts.

They are respectful to governing authorities, they submit to their leadership, but they will not not preach.

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Go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith and here's a question.

So this is the point I wanted to make.

Here's the question.

These men were living in a persecuted society beyond what we could possibly imagine.

I mean, this would be like Afghanistan level.

Maybe maybe China, I can't.

I mean, but like I'm talking Afghanistan level.

Like you say that again, you're in prison.

We're going to beat you.

That kind of thing that doesn't happen in very many countries today.

Yeah, definitely not here.

Definitely not here or anywhere in Europe or you know, or any any first world country.

I wouldn't think so, but the number was growing.

People were hearing it and believing it said five thousand, and then more thousands were added to the number.

The church is growing and they're seeing this boldness.

And this is all happening in a context of heavy per secution.

And so the Lord works in all of these situations.

So my question to you, and I would have to ask myself, is do I do I want to this is?

This is complicated.

What I want to risk?

What we'll call it islam America transitioning into an Islamic country?

Would I want to resist that and fight that for the sake of my children so that my children don't grow up going to the square in Georgetown and hearing the mosque five times a day calling to prayer and having even even worse, let's go even further.

No, it would be dangerous to carry a Bible.

You don't want to be caught praying because you're and it's somebody from a governing authority is going to talk to you.

What I when I fight that, or what I want to propagate Where we are today in a country where Christianity is so nominal and you can carry your Bible but it doesn't really matter.

And you could pray because everybody they pray it a NASCAR events.

It doesn't mean anything.

You could say.

You could say God.

The President says that this is like, this is very complicated, right, I don't I'm gonna I want to hear your answer to this.

But but what we what we see is God uses these and we should probably do another podcast to continue this idea, especially if people want further me to explain further.

But as in history, as things get easier to worship Christ and you have more freedom to do it, nominalism grows wild.

But as it's squeezed by and oppressed by a evil power, Christianity strengthens and spreads and grows.

Like we're seeing an Iran right now, We're seeing in China right now, and what's coming this way darkness, you know.

So that's my question to you and question anyone else that wants to comment.

So your question to me, my question would be resists with force politically publicly, even with your even with your first your second amendment, right, would you resist an onsought of any kind of oppressive ideology, namely Islam?

Yeah, because that's what I'm seeing right now a lot on social media's pastures speaking out against the rise of Islam and Muslims in America.

Or should we be so blessed to be persecuted for the name, because it is not a blessing to live in abundance without hindrance.

Because God has blessed me with a beach house in Florida and a big bank account so that I could take vacations and retire, and they'll put a nice Bible verse on my tombstone.

Right the second Amendment part would be the part what I would resist, you know, saying that I would take up arms for I think that's really where we get into dangerous comments and where I say in comments are just comments until comments become actions.

And I think there's we were I think in that aspect, it's jumping from A to Z.

Yeah, there is, And there's conversations, there's voting, there's.

Trying to get an answer from you.

I'm more so just as I'm cultivating.

I'm cultivating for a harvest.

Yeah, I think that, and also just just for thought.

I mean, think about it.

See, I think that what we do, we do this a lot we do a to Z A lot, Yeah, a lot, that's and we do we go.

You know, by God, that ain't happening here.

You know I got I got enough am to take all care of it all one.

You don't.

Have you ever seen a tank like?

No, you probably won't even get loaded by the time that that that thing takes off.

But the point is, like, have you stopped responding emotionally and started thinking, Lord, I'm gonna stop for a second and listen.

What do you have for me?

What do you want for me?

Is it persecure?

Right now?

Let's go time out and I'm not time out.

Pause.

We're not saying to seek persecution.

Yes, that would, that would.

That's a big difference here, and so yeah, please don't hear me if anyone's listening seeking persecution.

I didn't.

I didn't take I didn't take that part from you.

But you know, I kind of.

Maybe I could turn the question back around and go because we're seeing this right now, there's a hurricane developing, it's heading towards you.

You have time to do something about your house, and you have something to time to do about your family and to preserve what God has blessed you with.

Yes, material things, but then other things as well.

Do you do what you can to pack up and get in that car and leave, or do you help others back up and board up their houses and to protect what they've done?

What's your first thought?

Well, are we really talking about hurricanes or is this an illustration for it?

It's an illustration for both, because like, if you see it coming, what do you do?

Because you can if if if people say, oh, I can see it coming, I can see you know, Islam taking over New York right now with the governor right yes, So if you see it, what are you doing complaining?

Are you on Facebook dropping comments?

Are you inciting people to riot?

Are you or are you doing something that?

I mean?

The Bible does call us to fight evil, to fight against things that we don't see in this world.

Define how you would fight evil?

Biblicans praying share people hear that.

I don't think that's what people hear when you say fight evil.

I know what you mean because I know you.

Yeah, when you.

Say the Bible calls us to fight evil, I don't think people immediately go yeah, on your knees, baby with.

Your Second Amendment.

Grange, No, that's not I'm joking.

I'm joking.

I'm joking.

That's not what I mean at all.

No, I definitely mean that are you are you are you witnessing to that person that you think that is on the opposite side that you put out your American flag on the fourth of July and they didn't.

And you're like, well, hang on, now we're back to our definitions of Christian nationalists.

Well, like, but are are you praying for them?

Are you witnessing to them by your life?

Are you there when they're in need?

Are you there when they're hurting?

Are you are you kind when they're not?

Are everything that the Bible calls us to be and that we fight in an unseen world that is not against flesh and blood, that is against the rulers of the principalities of the air, You know, that's what are you doing about?

That?

Is my question?

If you see a hurricane coming, are you helping people board up their home or you'd get just getting out?

Yeah, so it's kind of for me, it's kind of the same question.

Or are you you're staking your ground and boarding up your house and going into your basement?

Sure you know the same thing.

As the same Yeah, you're just you're you're escaping that and you're the only one that's saved.

Or are you helping others?

And do you look at what we're showing this Islam thing.

We'll just stick with it.

Do you look at them as the enemy or that they are influenced by another enemy?

Sure?

Yeah, it's it's more of them influenced by that.

Would you look at them as an opportunity, as someone who's lost who could see the light?

I would say, after thought and prayer, I would think that.

I think immediately a lot of us and I'll I say a lot of us, I mean me and then anyone else who chooses to be honest about it is they'll go.

First thing you think is that that's my enemy, but they're not your enemy.

I am.

I'm probably weird.

That's maybe that's the best word.

I'm weird with this stuff, Like I Amber and I will go to Arab restaurants where it says all eyes is is God.

I don't think that's weird.

To be able to meet these people when I'm in Arab countries.

I also just have a love for the Arab people.

I've told you this before on text.

I'm a little biased because I have a little I have a love for Latin culture and Arabic people for whatever reason.

Well that's a calling you.

But when I'm in an Arabic country, I feel, in some ways, I feel alive in the faith.

I feel I feel closer to the Lord.

I was telling mar of this yesterday and he was like why, And I didn't tell him why yet I'm kind of telling him now, I guess.

But when I hear a mosque what they call the prayer, I just feel, I feel the Lord.

My prayers deepen, I get clarity, I get goosebumps on my arms.

It's like everything is now the spiritual battle that already exists around us is is heightened, and I feel the hypercolor in clarity around me.

And I'm recognizing.

I recognize when I hear I called a prayer in a mosque, I can a loud speaker.

I recognize my need, my proximity to evil, my proximity to the Prince of the power of the air.

Here Satan, who's the king of the world.

Right now, I feel my proximity to that, therefore my closeness to the Lord.

And I'll pray every time, every time those called it like, for instance, I a sleep one time and this was I think in Dubai woke up, they would do the call to prayer about four thirty in the morning, okay, And I just made it a habit that every time it woke me up, because you're sleeping with the windows open and stuff, and it's just very loud.

You can't avoid it.

So I would just make it, make it a thing when that woke me up, which I looked at it as a demonic voice, then I would start praying to the Lord.

That's cool.

And and I just feel I have I have a desire, maybe a strange one, that my kids would feel that kind of urgency and not be lulled to sleep, which is much more of a demonic tactic on us, that you could just be lulled to sleep by just nice little suburban lives with no pressure.

Just you want to go to church, go if not, if you're not, if you have a headache, don't go to church.

You read your Bible, but don't be a Bible thumper.

You know.

Oh, it's more about loving people to the truth.

And you know, we're living a Christian nation that you just slow yourself to sleep the demonic battle that's waging around you just becomes less clear, a little blurry, and we don't Maybe I should say me, I don't.

I don't feel it.

I don't feel the battle.

I don't feel the urgency.

And so when dearborn Michigan is freaking out on social media because a mosque is now there, sure, I just think what an opportunity for those people to witness, to reach out, to have them over for dinner, a Muslim family, and on top of all that, to feel the urgency in the air around them.

Well, I think that that's clarity of a lot of what the Lord has shown you, you know.

And I think that the only way to explain that is it's hard to understand what you haven't seen and to see potential and see promise in something that others don't and see despair and see trouble.

They haven't gone through trouble, and so when they see trouble, they have trouble.

When you've gone to the virtually at the end of the earth in despair, and when you've gone to the end of the earth, to the edge of death yourself you feel inside, then everything looking back has so much clarity it's like hindsight in twenty twenty.

Well, I mean, you know, you've gone all the way to the edge, and it's easier for you to look.

And the reason the Lord has taken you there is to give you a little glimpse of what he sees an eternity.

He sees both directions, all directions, not both, but in the past, in the future, up, down, left, right, every direction there is, he knows, he knows, And we only have one ford or two forward and backwards.

We can look back at what we've done and what he's carried us through, or we can look at forward in the unknown, and that's all we have.

Unless you've been one that he's taken further than many many others.

And I believe that that's what he's done with you.

He's taken you through the worst of the worst to go.

And I was with you.

See I told you I never leave your forsake you.

And when you thought it was the end, I was there, And I was there back at the beginning too.

So when you look at things, you have a way different perspective than a lot of people who what's cool is that you can share with us what you see.

Who sees and.

Hears a mosque as a Christian in America who hears a call to prayer from a mosque and goes, that's opportunity only someone who's seen the promise.

Yeah, I I don't want to be I don't want to feel like I have some kind of high ground.

And I think it would maybe feel that if you said this, and I don't know why I just said that.

Yeah, I I think losing river with Amber and I we have both, We have said this many times.

It just it felt like the thing that the fat was trimmed, you know, things that mattered, mattered, things that didn't all of a sudden didn't, and there was less gray in between, there was less gray area.

And when the Lord took hold of her heart with the Gospel and and just a just a love, a love for his word, and a joy, a joy in the in the presence of Him and in fellowship with him, then that began to be stronger than any other pleasure offered by this earth.

And so I don't Yeah, I don't want to encourage it's some kind of radicalism of we should sell everything and we should go live in a third world country.

I hope that that's not my argument.

I didn't take that if and you can.

And we told you at the beginning of this is us having a conversation.

This is us having a conversation.

Yeah, it really is.

We've actually gone we should probably do another one.

How many times have you have you said?

Yeah, but the way you say that, it.

Sounds like this, Okay, I'll take that, And I've said that to you, and I don't think what Maybe what I just shared was your reflection to me.

It's what I feel the Lord has given a revolution of to me.

Is that I know why you view some things the way you do because I haven't.

I haven't.

I'll say this one.

You and I went to Israel.

You know what I never did.

I never went to the Mount of Olives.

I can't tell you what it looks like from the Mount of Bolives, but I know what it looks like from your perspective.

Now, why didn't you go?

I don't think I realized that I was also working.

We both were, but I was also working on some things on the show on after midnight stuff we had to do, and you guys would go early in the morning, so I would either catch up or meet you guys, and then we would meet at the wall or whatever, you know, whatever the case was.

Wherever we would we'd end up meeting later.

And and and the times that you went, I just never went.

I should have.

That's the only part like I don't.

I didn't want to swim in the dead sea.

I was good with that said even.

Said that you go.

Are you gonna look back and go?

Man, I wish i'd done that.

Now, I'm good.

I didn't need to get I do miss not going to the Mount of Olives.

I'm like, oh, I.

Got I feel now I just got to go back to go do that.

But what I my point back being again, you didn't introduce that that perspective to have some kind of higher ground or some and and I don't want to put something on you that you that you that you feel that's a burden to you, how about that, But what your perspective of just let's just say of that gave it.

I have a perspective of now through you, and same with some of the other stuff that you share.

Just like this, I can see that perspective now the way you explain it.

And I can see that when I if I hear a call to prayer from a from a mosque.

I'm not going to think, oh my God, here comes the devil.

I'm gonna go man.

I remember grange'er not talking about and he talked about opportunity that will come to mind.

Now I heard that in Michigan.

They're they're actually playing that.

Now they're they're playing the loud speaker and listen.

People are going to find despair in that.

And maybe you're someone who's in Michigan who hears that, and here's this podcast.

Reposition your mind to be in line with the Word of God.

One reason I love Jerusalem and it's it's not because of some eschatological you know, relevance of Israel and God, and it's not that.

It's just let's just take that out of it.

That's a different podcast at a different time.

What I love about Jerusalem is the spiritual tension is so high.

It's so concentrated because you have these you know, like these ultra alter Orthodox people walking around in their robes, and then you have these these the Jews that are that are the the high rabbis that you don't see like a high rabbi walking around in America.

And then you see the the the Arab, the Muslim that is got Matt.

You know his face has been pressed to the mat because he's been praying, and you just feel it in the air.

And there's you know, in the old city there I remember in the in the Muslim quarter.

The if you go deepen up in that Muslim quarter, there's nothing but Muslims in there, and it there is a sense that there is it should be dangerous.

In fact, there's the Jewish IDF soldiers will guard it on either side with their guns and they look at you.

If I'm walking in, I'm a white guy walking in.

They look at me like you sure you want to do that?

You know where you're going, You understand where you're going.

Yes, I do.

And there was a time when I was back there one day, deep in the Muslim quarter and there was a spice shop.

There was a woman in there that was pregnant.

I don't know if this was on a trip you're with me or not, but there was a woman.

She was pregnant and she was with her husband in the spy shop.

The husband owned it and they were nervous about bringing a baby in, and we told him a gospel.

So then I went again in about eight months six months after that, and I went to them, I went looking for that man, and they stopped.

The IDF stopped me and said it might not be a good time to go, And I said, I have to go.

I'm looking for I'm looking for a man.

And I went through there, and you could feel the tension ey as you're looking at you could feel the IDF just talked to me and I and I didn't feel I didn't feel in danger, but it was culturally almost culturally inappropriate.

And so what I do, I'm literally praying with every footstep on that old ancient cobblestone, every footstep is it is that I'm taking refuge in him?

Ye, Lord, it did you.

You're You're my strength.

Lord, I'm looking for a man.

If he's here, Lord, you're taking me to him.

I trust you.

I take my refuge in you.

I thirst for you like a dry and weary land where there is no water.

This is the kind of those are the the intensity of prayers that you just don't get into.

At a flag football game with Lincoln in America, and I went and I did a couple of zig zags, and I could not and I could not find that spy shop until all of a sudden it turned a corner and there it was, and there he was, and he remembered me right off.

Oh wow, And he embraced me and and I sat with him and talked and he said, he said, I remember, I remember Jesus and you told me and in the cross, and I had new Arabic literature with me, and he saw it again and and then this time he we exchanged WhatsApp numbers, which occasionally we still talk, but then but it felt worth it.

He saw me and he loved me.

I was like a brother to him, and he knew I was a Christian and probably most Christians probably hate him, and he probably hates them.

And he had a look about him too, like an intense and intense you know.

There's lots of intense looks on both like on everybody.

When you say there was the feeling, there's also the outward expression of a lot of people there.

Yeah, And these are the things I want.

I want Lincoln in Maverick, and I don't say it as much for London, but I want them to see that.

And then I think, so it is it a horrible thing that more and more cities are getting most right, you see, this is a horrible I'm like, how is this bad?

I'm seeing these past going off on Instagram like Christians, you know, wake up, get to the polls and vote, you do what's happening in the wave of Islam's coming.

I'm like, I think back to the moment on the cobblestone, and some things that get some things that get me every time as I think, what if one day, Lord in Heaven, a man walks up to me and says, it was you, It was you, Yeah, that told me, told me the truth, right, you know?

And I think I think that quite a bit.

And what what a day?

If are we living for that day?

Are we living for the peace and prosperity of this day?

Which?

Which day are we living for?

I think that the answer to that would reveal the way we really think about God.

I think the answer that for most people too is well, I say for most, I shouldn't say most.

I think I'll say for me.

How about that?

That's what I can give an honest answer on us both it's both is now and then something just nudges you and go.

But what about let's sue this again?

See another show like this.

Okay, I'm in.

I think we still have a lot of ideas we didn't even get to.

And by the way, we do have.

So this is something new.

We have a new episode that's going to be completely different than this that is a video reaction podcast that we'll be coming out on Wednesday.

Is it about something like this?

No?

Okay?

Good?

And then we have on Friday Friday Q and A okay that's coming up with this Friday.

So I hope you enjoyed it last week, hope you enjoyed it this week.

And yeah, I'll just see what God does with it.

That's all we got.

We'll see you next time.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me on this episode of the Grangersmith podcast.

I appreciate you being here.

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Ye y.