Hi, I'm from Chester Budgin and I'm Louise Area and this is season five of our New Zealand to Here with podcasts The Little Things Good to have you with us.

So in this podcast, we talked to experts.

We found out all the little things that you need to know to improve all areas of your life and cut through the confusion and overload of information out there.

So today, supplements, we're going to talk about how to find out whether you even really need a supplement, and if you do, we're going to find out how to select a good quality supplement and make it work best for you.

And we're going to get the low down on some of the supplement trends out there and talk about everything from vitamin D to Mauldi vitamins to anti aging supplements.

This is one area where there is a huge amount of information.

It is confusing.

I mean, this just sort of fits the bill of what we what we're trying to do here through that.

Yeah, Yeah, So I'm so excited we're going to talk about this today.

Do you use use supplements?

I do not take a single supplement these days.

I toy with the idea.

I definitely did.

If you're a call.

Coming out of my illness, I took quite a lot of supplements.

Yeah, then it just kind of you still taking protein powder?

You a sorry create sorry creating?

Yeah, I don't.

I kind of probably should, but I don't really think of those as supplement.

No, yes, protein powder when I remember creating, when I remember, I must ask our guest about that, whether or not.

It's the consistency that counts.

Was that sort of thing.

But other than those two things, yeah, nothing.

Try not to even take a paracetamaf I don't need it.

I'm very much the same.

I do use protein powder as a way to get a little extra protein in the day, and that's about it.

I was using a Mega three for a while from the joints and things, but it's just so I don't know whether they work or not.

And then and then you sort of you know, and these things are costly.

I don't have the money to be paying for something that's not working all.

I mean, i'd probably take the placebo effect, but then I might finish a bottle and I'll think, oh, should I replace them?

And I just live with things for a month and I go, oh, maybe my joints are a bits or but then you go, but actually it's winter and it's degrees outside, would be would they be like that anyway?

Like with some of them, what I would really like to know is when does it matter that it's a super high quality expensive one and when does it not matter?

And you can get the cheaper version of something and still get the same impact.

So, for example, Amega three is a really good example of that, I think, because there are some cheap ones, you know, those really big bottles, the ones that you can get.

I don't know how long is the active ingredient for who knows, Like you're right, it could just be a PLACEBA effect.

And that's what I'm really excited today we're going to talk about.

We're going to sort of learn how to read labels and what to look for and understanding the kind of doses that you should be taking of things.

I think I have quite an old fashioned perception of taking vitamins and nutrients.

I think in the past I've just got, oh, look, I'm just I'll just take some vitamin B, or I'll just take a body vitamin and all vitamin C.

And you know that's fine.

If I don't need it, I'll just pee it.

Out.

You know, I've ever thought of them as being a harmful or anything.

But what we are actually seeing is the industry grows, is that it can actually you know, all these things do have to be processed by a body, and they can cause harm as well.

So it's going to be great to talk about that a little bit today and making sure that what we're doing is benefiting us and not.

And if you find yourself on a because the prescriptages, yeah, ages are tearing into the supplements and things now.

And if you if you are on a prescribed medication and you're taking supplements, what's the you know, who knows you could be doing yourself some harm?

And if the GP asks you, how often do you do you honestly say, oh, yes, here's the list of I don't think you've taken because some of these people don't think about it and or they don't admit it.

Yeah, maybe because they don't want to be poopooped by their GP.

So there is a lot to cover, and I think there are times in your life where you do need them, like, for example, foll late when you're pregnant in that absolutely, so I guess today is naturopath Aaron O'Hara.

Aaron holds both a Bachelor of Science and Physiology and a Bachelor of Natural Medicine.

She combines that knowledge of naturopathy and science to provide an integrative, an evidence based approach to well being.

Aaron has been in the health and well being industry for around twenty years now, but she continues to do extensive study to keep on top of scientific research and it is hugely passionate about health.

Good to have you with us, are and welcome.

Hi, Nice to have you with us, Aaron.

Let's just start with the obvious question when it comes to supplements, do we need to supplement our diet?

Yeah, I think there's mixed views on that, and I was actually looking through some of the current research on do we need supplements, and there has actually been studies done with people over long periods of time, whether they've taken a multi vitamin or taken a placebo, and it's interesting the research that comes out of those studies is actually there's very little difference between the two groups.

So it really depends on your own health and well being and what sort of diet you're having, as well as if you do have any specific sort of deficiencies that you'd want to be looking out for.

So people who were maybe likes of being on a vegan diet, you might be looking at supplementing on top of that, or maybe certain health conditions like ours herporosis that we may want some extra supplements.

When it comes to a multi vitamin, I think people are quick to grab them off the shelf and be like, it's my insurance policy for keeping myself healthy.

But actually, I think we need to really take a second look at Okay, what are we taking, what is in't it?

What extra additives are in that supplement, and are they going to be doing more benefit or harm to your body?

And it's not the same for everyone, unfortunately, we are all a little bit different and unique, and I think that's where it depends on your natural nutrient levels in your body, but also how your organs also process those supplements as well, and the quality of the product is huge.

I guess, like everything that we talk about on this podcast, it isn't a one size fits all situation.

And so how if we wanted to know whether or not we needed a specific supplement, how do we know?

I think it's first looking at your own health.

So I think the question I would usually ask someone is why are you wanting to take supplements?

Are you looking at some sort of symptom that you've got, or do you have a medicine condition you're wanting some extra support with, and then from there looking at doing blood testing.

It's usually where I like to start.

I like to know where our baseline is and not just packing supplements based on what it could possibly be good for, but instead, okay, what is your general wellbeing like before you start putting in supplements, and then you also know the effect of those supplements on your body, particularly things like liver that might be holding more toxic load when you're adding more supplements in and actually having an educative view of what you're supplementmenting in.

So that's interesting.

You're not just take You're not just doing the testing to see if you may be deficient in something like iron, but you also once you start a supplement is actually worth testing to make sure that it's not having an impact on certain parts of your body like your liver and things.

Yeah, because it's looking about sort of where your general health is at.

And when you look at basic bloods, you've got complete blood count.

That's really looking at whether you've got anemia, how your red blood sell how your immune system's working.

And then also organ function is usually in a very basic panel, so that would be a liver function test, as well as looking at renal function, which is your kidneys.

And most supplements if you're overdosing yourself or even taking the right dose, is they are actually getting processed through the liver and the kidneys.

So being really mindful of those organs because they're filtering whatever you're putting in your body.

So don't tell me off, because I know I should know better, But I did say in the introduction, I think I do have quite an old fashioned perception of taking a taking a vitamin, taking a supplement, which is, oh, if my body doesn't need it, I'll just pee it out like it's harmless.

And you know, we've always talked about that with vitamin C, and everyone said the bright yellow P at some point and you're just kind of going, oh, that's fine, if my body doesn't need it, I'll just pay it out.

And I think we worry.

We feel like does anyone else Did anyone else used to think like that?

Yeah?

I know, And I think you can tune that around and say, if my body doesn't need it, why would I make my body process something I don't need Because I do remember when I must have been I can't remember somewhere in that bloody haze of illness, but you know, they've talked about liver loading a lot, and it's stuck in my mind.

Is that what am I doing if I take this or that or the other thing.

And also when I went to the GP recently and they said, oh, yeah, that's cool, you probably should take something for your cholestol, but let's just get your kidneys.

Are like, oh really, I hope blood tested it.

She was like, well, I need to know before we prescribe you something that could even impact on your you know, renal function.

And that's where looking at that as your first line, because if you get some testing done and you're also looking at your diet and your lifestyle first, it really supplements are their next sort of extra.

On top of that, they're not the instead of eating a healthy diet, you're going to supplement in nutrients.

It doesn't work like that, even if you might like it to work like that.

And then I also think just your general public, if you're looking at supplements like, obviously, I've spent six years at university, and I know what's a fat soluble vitamin that's going to get processed through the live and what's a water soluble vitamin that's going to get processed through the kidneys.

But I think basically, if you haven't sort of studied supplements in depth, you wouldn't know that from picking up a bottle and a container and reading the label, because basically it will have the ingredients in it and maybe a few warnings, but it's not going to tell you whether you're going to be overdosing yourself on something, whether it's right for you or not, or whether it even interacts with possibly any medications that you're taking.

And I think that's what people quite often don't look at.

Okay, is there any what's known as polypharmacy of the interaction between your supplements and your medications and are they going to be helping the medications work better or are they're actually going to be doing more harm than good and actually making maybe the medication not even work, which is actually not something you want to be doing.

If you've got a chronic health condition.

Maybe we should this is a good time to talk about labeling because half the time I don't have my glasses on me and I can't read anything anyway, that's so tiny.

Intentionally, I'm sure I.

Completely agree with you.

So are our supplements well labeled erin in New Zealand, well, they have to have.

A certain amount of information on the label.

Definitely.

Australia is stricter on what labeling goes on, particularly of having the warnings and having their right sort of listing of ingredients.

In New Zealand we're even a little bit more lax than that, and that we wouldn't always put the warnings.

However, in New Zealand we do have a stricter regulation around you're not allowed to label the bottle based on the action that it would have.

For instance, a probatic that's for ezma wouldn't say that on the bottle, where in countries like Australia they can actually have a little bit more guidance based on the labeling of what they're putting on the branding of maybe the product name.

So different countries have different regulations and how they sort of do the labeling and the labeling gives you a lot of information, but also like unless you know what you're reading.

And I think how many people actually read the label before they take supplements.

Probably very few, and they don't always have the warnings of exactly, Okay, you can't take it with this medication, this medication, this medication.

Instead you kind of left to like it usually has just a very broad spectrum check with your practitioner for docing or medical advice, and I think that generally it's on every bottle kind of something like that at the bottom of it'll have that sort of warning of like make sure you're checking with your professional doctor, and that's right, good, But also do we actually do that, as my question to most people is do they actually check that they're taking, you know, before they're taking something, they're checking in with either a natural path or who actually would know more about supplements than your doctor because that's what they study at university, or even checking in with your doctor, especially if you're taking a medication and maybe doing a double check of both, because the labor won't necessarily telling you whether it's safe for your body or not.

So we're sort of getting we're getting an education from the industry rather than a you and hoping, you know, crossing our thing isn't hoping that's right or not even crossing our fingers.

We're just grabbing it off the shewers, really, aren't we.

And I don't like you say, franchis gra, I don't think people do read.

I think you're looking for that star product, like you say, like the AMGA three's, that's the thing that you're looking for, But do you read everything else that's involved in it, including the casing that it comes in.

There's a lot of additives that actually added to supplements that actually when they are really small amounts, that don't actually have to be put on the label.

So unless you actually go in and you look at that actual product information which quite often is more available to a practitioner than it is to your average person, then you won't see all the hidden ingredients because it all have the active ingredients and maybe some of the main ingredients like vegie capsules, but it won't have the extra little additives that are in there.

And maybe you're reacting to one of those things, which is absolutely possible too.

Here in New Zealand, do we test any of our supplements to make sure that what they tell us is on the bottle is actually in the tablet.

No, and there are very few countries that do.

And it's interesting around the regulations in New Zealand that the dietary supplement regulations in New Zealand are actually classified under Dietary Supplement Regulations nineteen eighty five, so we're talking about forty years ago, and it falls under the Food Act of twenty fourteen, so it's actually quite old regulations that we have in place.

And I've worked in this industry for a long time and obviously the supplement industry growth is now in the trillion dollar industry.

Yet our regulations are still set back forty years ago and they're still classified, especially in New Zealand, under a food product rather than Yes, they've got the dietary supplement sort of regulations, but it's still classified as under foods rather than under medications.

So if Australia is more highly regulated in the way that they manufacture and the way that they label and what they produce, should we be looking for products that are also sold in Australia.

Is that quite a good way around, you know, saying oh, here's a good quality New Zealand product and oh look it also happens to meet the Australian standards.

So that's a little double tip.

That's something that I personally always look for because I know that the TGA, which is the regulating body in Australia, is a lot stricter than New Zealand, and New Zealand kind of falls under that's under the sort of medsafe it kind of falls under.

They kind of follow what Australia is doing in general.

However, there's certain funny rules in New Zealand, especially around things like zinc, where zinc and New Zealand assoppment's not allowed to be above fifteen milligrams per day, which actually, if you're deficient in zinc, will not be enough to get your zinc back to normal levels, which means whoever's prescribing it's going to have to dose it higher than that get you back to normal levels.

And that's where it comes down to sort of testing and taking the right dose of what you need.

But in New Zealand we have more broad spectrum sort of regulations were things like iron supplements they can only be a set amount, which I think is twenty four milligrams per tablet and an iron supplement.

When it comes to vitamin D, the regulation New Zealand is one thousand units, which for most people that probably doesn't mean much.

But if I'm dosing vitamin D and I'm just trying to keep someone at like a healthy level for their body size, then I'd classify one thousand international units.

Theres enough for a twenty five K low child, So you would have to really know how to dose that and get the right dose for your size.

So what I'm getting from this is if you think that you know, if you're looking for something to help you out, like if you feel that you know, as you say, you've got a symptom, you're dealing with something else or whatever.

You get your blood tests and then you find someone who can professionally tell you exactly how much you need to of a zero product to actually make an impact on you, and then keep an eye on you to make sure that it's actually doing the trick and you're not harming your body, and hopefully it's you making an impact.

And that's where really supplements should be looked at more being something to create change in the body to bring you back to optimal health, rather than having a supplement plan that's the supplement pan that you take for the rest of your life to stay healthy, like it shouldn't be like that.

And when I see most people come into my personal clinic, if they've picked their own supplements, generally they pick what i'd call basics, which is like a multi vitamin, maybe a probiotic, maybe a for suil and a magnesium and they kind of don't go from there.

But when it comes to further sort of from their supplements, there's actually a lot of supplements out there, like thousands of supplements around the world, and trying to pick what's right for you really depends on what's going on in your body.

And again that about creating change, Like if you're looking at something like arthritis, you want to get on some stuff to get the information down, and then you want to go on to like a maintenance plan, and that's where your supplement plan.

And even for my own personal supplement plan, it's not a cookie cutter of like the same thing that I take every month.

That will depend what's going on in my body and what I'm taking, so I might rotate iron supplements in and out.

It's so true because if you take something and you think it's working.

You're terrified.

You don't want to stop it.

No, You're like, no, I'll just stop just then, like money and taking it, and you potentially could stop it.

Yeah, But for example, if you are like for me, I'm going to be training for something and I'm going to be training further and longer and be out there, you know, what I'm doing to my body or what I'm needing for my body is going to change and over these next coming you know, six nine months.

Can I just ask a question, where is the hold up with getting better regulation?

Well, there's talk about it being more like a global regulation, and there has been talk about that and having better sort of international requirements internationally to make it more standard.

And there's obviously two sides to that as well, is that you know, that could create some benefit but also some problems as well.

When we're looking at like having stricter regulations and making them more become like drugs and that that need to be prescribed for something that you need to take, which I do feel like there are certain supplements that should be in that classification because people taking them and not knowing what they're doing usually is not a good thing.

Where there could be other sort of there could be two ranges.

That's just my view on it.

When it comes to having strict regulations, obviously there's safety concerns around that, and also who's doing the regulating do they actually know?

Like is it based on somebody's view and how they like to work with a body, Like then you'd need a certain team and how they work on what's okay and what's not okay.

Also, strict regulations claim so you kind of cut back on that because you also have tied a regulation of what's going on labels and how they work, and also then stricter regulations around interactions with sort of medications as well, which is something that's really important, which as a practitioner myself, when I'm working with someone with med toast taking medications for a health condition, obviously I'm not trying to take them off their medications, but instead I actually have access into databases where I can put in their medications and will tell me what active ingredients and supplements will interact with that medication.

And I think that's where when you're picking your own supplements, like, are you doing these safety checks because they are really important?

Well, yeah, what worries me, I guess is I'm thinking about those really vulnerable people out there.

For example, if you do get a diagnosis of cancer, a lot of people go, I'm throwing out everything that's not organic, like it's just a normal reaction to control what you can control well.

And then I'm going to take these mushrooms because I've been told, and I'm going to take some tumor because that's an anti inflamma.

And some of these are contraindicated with the treatment you'll be receiving for your chemotherapy or your immune therapy or whatever.

It's important, it's really important that that.

I mean, I worry about all of us just wolfing down supplements for no reason and wasting our money, but I really worry about those vulnerable populations in particular.

And I think that's where, like I think people quite an't.

They're beg into doing what I'd call the Google researching of supplements, and especially if they get a serious health diagnosis like cancer, and so it kind of gives them like so many products they could possibly take.

Like if you take cancer, for instance, you would come up with probably like a hundred products or more that could possibly be good for anti cancer.

But are they the right things for you and the type of cancer you have and depending on what pathways are actually the problem and you body that needs support.

And also if you're working then alongside immunotherapy, obviously you need to know what you're doing because you could actually stop the immunotherapy from working as well if you're taking something that's actually stimulating the immune system and it's not having that action that you require.

And that's where if you are doing treatments, don't just pack your own supplements like it is helpful to have someone who actually has some experience in the area that you're looking and improving your health because they will give you some good advice hopefully and help you guide on what supplements you'll need and what supplements you shouldn't be taking, because it does need to be a lot more cautious when there are medications in place.

You're listening to the little things and I guess on the podcast today is Natropath Aaron Ohara talking supplements and how to get the best out of them.

We'll be back shortly after this break.

Welcome back erin.

Maybe we could talk about some of the popular vitamins and supplements and things and the fads out there that we use.

Love to get your opinion on this.

You've kind of already spoken about the multi vitamin and whether it's useful or not, and whether we should be a little bit more targeted.

I was just saying to Loub before I seat of this.

I can remember maybe in my twenties or thirties, was really popular for you know, every second woman I know was on a vitamin B or B plus.

Was it called well B twelve and all this kind of like vitamin B was really big.

Is that still popular?

Absolutely?

Right, They kind of get so that there's always fad things that are going through the industry, particularly with supplement products.

I think the B vitamins were big, and then they kind of always have been there, but probably more into the background of the multi vitamin.

But right now, obviously it's quite big.

The methylation, which I know not everyone will know.

That is what does this make you?

What's this methylation?

I think people are getting more into doing gene testing and seeing whether they methylate, which is basically providing the right types of B vitamins to support detoxification pathways in the body.

And so I think because people are moving into doing more functional medicine or genetic testing, they're then getting trying to get more precision with what kind of products they're trying to take.

Metholate methylate.

Okay, so does that also if that's talking about detoxing, does that talk about how while you handle alcohol things to a certain degree.

Yep, it's drugs in general things.

Okay, for woman, how you detox estrogen, which is really good, things like in amenttriosis, maybe anyone who has more high esogen dominance.

Then methylation is critical to make sure you're detoxing estrogen through the body because you use those methylated B vitamins basically to then bind and then detox out through the body.

So they do a really good function.

Once again an example of it's just a little bit more complicated than just grabbing a bottle of item and puffing a pill.

Okay.

I'm finding this so fascinating, and I think in the first half of this week we discussed it.

We're not anti supplement, We just want to know the facts and arin you're not anti supplement, you prescribe them all the time.

So that's why we are asking you specifically now about you know, the ones that we hear about a lot.

So you know, we're not here in name or shame or anything.

Like that.

But vitamin D.

What about vitamin D?

I think what we don't know is what does our body make and retain and what does our body not keep, So we need to keep topping it up.

That's a bit that gets me.

I don't know about you, Franchisciver that that always surprises me.

So vitamin D we need top ups, all right.

Yeah.

So Vitamin D is also known as the sunshine vitamin.

It is a fat soluble vitamin, so it stores in your body and we get it from getting sunlight on the skin, particularly UVB and so if you're getting it onto the skin, then your body will naturally manufacture vitamin D.

Now, some people don't produce it as well as others, and it's not necessarily to do with the pigment color of your skin, So whether you're fear or dark skin is actually a bit more complicated than that.

And that's where in the summer months we're generally outside a lot more so we're going to have more sustained vitamin D levels, and naturally, usually over the winter months where indoors a lot more so, we will get a little bit more drop in the vitamin D levels.

When it comes to supplementing.

This for me is one I would not prescribe without doing testing, because some people are super absorbers of vitamin D from the sun through their skin, and even without a supplement they can be really high normal levels and other people, for instance, I'll use myself.

I know I have recessive genes for vitamin D that I don't absorb it very well through my skin, so I monitor it a little bit more carefully.

Now.

Some countries, like Australia again for example, they do vitamin D testing twice a year as their regular checkups and it's funded through Medicare.

Well in New Zealand, it is something you would have to request as an extra additive and you would have to pay to do that test.

However, I feel like it's very beneficial because if you're going to supplement it, you want to know how much your body actually needs because it's going to be storing it.

And the one time I've seen a lot of extreme high levels is actually kids where moms have given their children to boost their immunity vitamin D and obviously because they are small, they have dosed them pretty high and they've had them really up very high levels to the point where it's actually toxic when it's high, so you want to be a bit careful.

This That was what I was going.

To ask you about vitamin D because I have heard that too, that it can be toxic and like, for example, if you're pregnant, you would definitely want to know before you took something like vitamin D because it can actually have some implications, yeah, for your pregnancy.

Any of the fat soluble vitamins, if you're pregnant, you want to be kindful.

Like vitamin A is the same.

If you take vitamin A, you're going to cause birth defects.

So something to be really cautious around.

It's those fat soluble vitamins that need to be extra extra causa, which is vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin E.

So they are all fat soluble, so you want to be careful around how you're supplementing them.

And if you look, for instance, coming back to the multi vitamin, if you look at your bottle of multi vitamin for most products, one of the main ingredients is actually vitamin A.

And vitamin A obviously really important for your health, but too much is actually not good for your health either, So something to be careful around.

Most people when they're taking a multi vitamin, though, are generally taking just what's on the bottle label, which is actually quite safe because they are based on recommended daily allowances, which is actually just enough to survive, which is not enough to actually boost anything into extreme levels.

So for most labeling to be honest, because there's a level of caution with the labeling that actually the dosing on the label is probably less than you actually require because of the safety element with the labeling.

And that's where sometimes a practitioner, for instance myself, I would dose a lot higher than what it says on the label because you usually the dose in the label is like the low doses conservative day, very very conservative, and if you're actually wanted to create change in the body, sometimes you need higher levels than what's actually on the label.

As we head into our middle years, we see a lot more arthritis popping up, or we just you know, with thanks to perimenopause and the mystery of perimenopause, aches and pains, enjoying pains you know that can't be explained, and things like that.

You hear a lot of products that promote good joint health.

What is good for our joints?

I think it's about understanding that naturally, as we age the joints, so like any parts in a car, everything's going to get a lot more worn.

And so the more you can protect your joints through anti inflammatory lifestyle, maybe making sure you've got enough good essential fatty acids in your diet, all that prevention is actually more helpful than actually waiting until you have severe joint pain and then you try and put supplements in.

Because one thing I will say about supplements, there is nothing for instant pain relief.

So if you're looking for a magical pill that's going to get rid of your pain instantly, like panidoal or neurofin, you will not find it in your supplements.

It will not be there because there's nothing for instant pain relief.

And that's where if you're looking for supporting your joints, it would be more making sure you've got the right joint support there before you have a lot of joint pain.

And a lot of that comes down to maybe locking at your genet.

If you know your mother and your grandmother had arthritis and needed kneed replacements and hip replacements, you might actually be a bit more cautious and be like I'm going to be a bit more preventative and put in an anti inflammatory diet.

Be mindful what type of movement you do, so maybe don't become a marathon or ultramarathon runner where you're going to get more wear and tear.

It's just pointing maybe and maybe putting in a little bit more joint support, especially if you know you love exercise and you want to have that extra support.

It might be around putting in some joint nutrients, which would be things like glucosamine, controutin all your minerals really good for joint connective tissue.

Maybe looking at collagen which actually obviously there's mixed views on collagen.

It is collagens on our list one of the fad things that's kind of out there.

But those sorts of things more supporting connective tissue and holding the joint structure really good.

When it comes to all your anti inflammatory sort of herbs, it's more looking at ucing information.

So if you don't have joint pain, they're actually not going to prevent joint damage unless you know you just want to keep that support with the anti inflammatory.

If you know you're getting a little bit achy, then that's where you want to bring in those more things like tumoric and maybe boswalia, which we may or may not have heard of before, but it's in really nice anti inflammatory things like Devil's core another herb that's really good for anti inflammatory as well.

But those are going to reduce inflammation, so if you're feeling a bit achy.

Once you have they're going.

To be helpful.

But once again, it comes back to what you said before.

It's where your body is at right now, what it's dealing with, looking forward and coming up with a sort of a specific plan for you and kind of what you might need in things.

Should we finish off a few, should we go through a few more, we'll get to collegen a few are more of the supplements which sort of come under anti aging.

But look, should we talk really quickly about vitamin C because of course there is a tendency, especially in winter, that we need to dose up on vitamin C to boost our immunity.

Is that necessary?

Well, that's really I would call it misunderstanding of vitamin C because vitamin C is actually an antioxidant, so it's more going to clean up free radicals in your body.

It has actually not really any pathways in boosting your immunity.

And instead, if you did have any extra free radicals, like if you're running or if you're getting sick, then you get those free radicals, then the vitamin C will actually more help you with cleaning up infection.

So actually more helpful to you when you're sick or feel like you're getting sick, then it is helpful you take prevented daily, yes, okay, And that's where there's so many other great options for I'd call them immune modulating, so basically something that would up regulate your immune system if it needed it, or bring it down to normal if it didn't need that sort of support.

And that's where really your things like mushroom products, and that's not magic mushrooms, but instead the mushrooms like rishi, shitaqi, turkey tail, all things that are supporting with immune modulation and supporting that balance of the immune system, they're going to be more helpful to keep you well over winter.

Mushrooms are interesting.

You tried much the cancer, didn't you.

Yeah, And I didn't use them during chemo because they were a little bit contraindicated as far as I was weird, But I did use them afterwards to support my immune system as I recovered.

I mean, I don't know where they you know, but I was glowing with health for quite some time after that.

You can actually usually if you're taking something like that that has a good active ingredients, you can actually see how it's affecting the immune system by just your basic complete blood count, because there's immune cells in this, so you can see how white blood count, liversites, neutral feels, how they're behaving when you're taking something that is an immune modulator and giving your immune system that support.

And those things did recover quite quickly because they are obviously really badly knocked around.

I don't you know, as I say, I'm not sure, but it was a really quality product that I was actually getting from the States through a friend who was a practicing medicine at Chinese medicine.

I don't know if we can get them here.

They're probably incredibly expected.

I can't even remember the brand name, but you know, and also even if they weren't, I did, I didn't mind taking them.

They were quite nice.

It's interesting you should say that because there's actually I've looked into other research over the years around even just that belief that what you're taking is working.

And actually that's even big with medical treatment.

There's actually a lot of research that he's done on even medical treatments that they know technically don't actually work that well, but if the person believes it's going to work, it's going to work.

And I think that also comes down to sometimes the supplements.

If somebody's taking something and they're told that it's going to reduce their inflammation or it's going to boost their immunity, then maybe there's an element of like there's active ingredients plus the mindset that's like this is working for.

Me, and you might also be doing other healthy things, like you might be following a healthier diet at the same time and all that kind of thing.

And they usually go hand in hand.

Generally, when people are like I'm working on my houth, they don't just generally take something they're usually ready for, like Okay, I'm going to look at the diet, I'm going to look at sleep, and I'm going to look at exercise.

And I think that's where when you look at your overall well being, supplements is not top of the list.

It's actually further down the list until you've got the foundations of your health.

So nutrition and sleep was I Sleep is just as important as nutrition, Like if you're not sleepy enough, even if you eat well, you will not be healthy.

And then also making sure you're getting stress management and exercise and get the foundations right first.

So when it comes to sleep, some people swear my magnesium has made a huge difference to the sleep, and other people came it hasn't made a difference at all.

But we hear a lot about magnesium these days too.

Yeah, magnesiums actually some than quite safe for people to take.

It's more to do the type of magnesium that I think people don't look at.

There's actually loads of different types of magnesiums and how well they absorb into the body, and some will have more of effect of having a laxative effect on the gut than others.

But they do absorb differently.

So powder might absorb better than a tablet.

It's not so much powder to a tablet.

It's the type of form of magnesium.

So the two that are more organic forms of magnesium are magnesium citrate, magnesium glycerate or biglycrate, same thing, and they are highly absorbable forms of magnesium.

When you're looking at things like magnesium oxide.

I personally wouldn't suggest anyone takes magnesium oxide as it doesn't have good clinical research to back it up.

And that's where when you're picking a magnesium it's like, okay, well what sort of magnesium?

Same with zinc, there's lots of different types of zinc.

It's not all one thing called zinc.

It's actually there's zinc picolate by glacera, you know, and they all do have slightly different actions in how they absorb in the body too.

Okay, well keep going because we want we want to get as much out of this as we possibly can.

Jim go as we hear a lot about protein powder and creatine.

Obviously, again I think you're going to tell us there's a large variety of protein powders out there, and the way you take it will make a difference.

Protein is like the hit thing at the moment, Like there's always the thing that's like in the limelight.

Protein is huge at the moment, and I think when you're looking at protein, like I personally don't have a problem with protein powders, depending on the quality of them, So looking if they do have any artificial flavors, colors additives added into the protein powder.

But also you should be looking at food first, and powder is just more if you are needing that extra boosters.

So if we look at them more as an extra booster rather than our first choice of protein for each meal, because nobody is going to have a protein powder and breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or hopefully they don't because it is at the end of the day, is still an ultra processed food.

You don't bump into protein powder when you're out in nature.

So I think it's about reminding yourselves that it's still in the ultra processed food category and that if you're using it, great, but you should use it more as the additive to help you maybe reach your protein.

That's exactly right, because it is quite hard according to what the protein recommendations are to get that for me in a day in my food so and I don't need a lot of meat, so the protein powder I use a vegetarian one.

And for some people that can also be super helpful because it can also reduce the load on the gut when you're having those protein powders.

When it comes to protein bars, please read the label because some will just give you a very sore, bloated tummy with the sugar alcohols, and they're actually quite high calories, so you actually won't feel that full.

I feel like you've satisfied, like you've had a big meal, but you've eaten a huge amount of calories generally in a protein.

Bar, I don't get that's the time.

So it's something to be really cautious of, probably more so than protein powders.

And then when it comes to creatine, there is actually a good clinical research on creatine is actually something quite safe for most people to take.

Exception if you do have any kidney issues, definitely check with your doctor as well as if you have on any blood pressure medications, might want to be a bit more cautious around that.

And then also just knowing that you can get a bit of fluid retention, which is for women in particular, might not be their thing that they are side effect that they don't like and they might want to just start slowly.

And that's the thing with things like creating, especially if you've got a powder, is that just dosing it cautiously if you're trying something new, and you can even monitor how the creatine's working in the body by doing a blood test for the kidney function because nine is the byproduct of creatine.

So if you're overdosing, you'll see it in your blood tests.

Because we hear that it could be quite good for premenopause and menopause or women.

Absolutely, they help with a variety of things.

Yeah, really good for cognition, keeping up lean muscle mass, and there's actually good significant studies there for it.

And I think it's just been mindful around how you dose.

It is really what you want to be cautious of.

And then when it comes back to quality of supplements.

You know, recently there was the push gummies that were creating product.

You know that somebody tests them and actually contain no creating so or virtually no creating.

So just know that just because it might say it's got three to five grams of you know, creating and it does, it really pick a good quality one.

And it should be microlized so it's small molecules that it can actually absorb into the body.

And when it comes back to those things, just in general supplements when it says gummies, so I think mindful not you know, especially not a small child that and you can swallow supplements because generally a gummy is sugar additives.

They've usually got gelatine and to make them into a jelly.

They're really like any a lolly, but we like to pretend that we're not eating a lolly because we're having a supplement because it's come out of a supplement container.

However, the quality of a gummy is usually very low because they have to put a lot of additives in to make a gummy.

So if you if you can't swallow tablets, maybe look at powders before gummies.

And usually I would only look into gummies if I had a very picky child in the clinic that I couldn't get anything into them and all the other options and I'm getting a little bit limited, then I might start looking at chewaballs or gummies.

Okay, well you wanted to take some marijuana, just kidding.

A lot of people are putting electrites in their water on the every day, like literally just at their desk.

Is that necessary?

No?

Thank you for ex simple answer, And I think that's where electrolytes.

Yeah, they're important to keep the body in balance, but unless you're sweating a lot the body's great at staying in its homeo status balance, like it knows how to regulate things.

And if you're taking too much electrolytes and you're just sitting around, they're actually mainly sodium and sodium what effect that has is actually up it helps you absorb water.

If you have more blood volume or more water intake, you're gonna have more blood volume, which is that you're going to put your blood pressure up.

So something to be really careful around, because too much sodium is actually going to affect your blood pressure regulation.

But if you were doing some sort of full on training for a you know, if you're an athlete of some sort, and you know, it can be.

Used any hardcore training where you're running or sweating a lot, or you know, anything where you're sweating a lot.

So basically, if you're really or in a hot climate, or if you had a gastrobug, really good place for electrolytes.

So there's definitely a place for electrolytes, but it's more around like illness, vomiting, diarrhea, intense exercise, extreme heat.

So if you've gone from here to you know, Thailand and you're not used to the heat and you're suddenly sweating a lot, then yeah, take electrolytes every day.

You live in New Zealand and it's winter and you're not sweeting.

Probably okay for beginners.

If you're taking electrolytes, like if you're taking them in a gel or whatever, and you haven't usually used the caffeine ones, don't start using the caffeine ones.

Wow, it's something to be cautious of.

If you're training hard, then you don't want to be throwing too much caffeine and.

Nic and then wonder why you can't get to sleep that night.

Yeah, totally, you're And you mentioned in collagen before in association will joint health and things, but it is often, you know, something that people are very attracted to instead of protein powder.

They might be throwing the collagen into their smoothie because they want, you know, luscious hair and strong nails and things like that, or good skin.

Maybe we could just talk very briefly about things like collagen.

And I know that there are a lot of other anti aging sort of trends I think which people are going to hear about soon, like m N or NAD plus and things.

Yeah, longevity is really the big thing and especially if you're a big social media follower, you'll be like, oh, I need the next longevity product, and collagen's probably i'd say it's on the phase out phase.

Yeah, it's really pete.

And if you think back through history, there's always fad products from like sperrillina powder, nonny powder and weak grass and coconut product.

You know, most people be like, oh, yeah.

I did that, and then they're still around, like they haven't gone anywhere, they're just not popular as much anymore.

And that's where really your collagen has become really trending.

And I think it's looking at what's in your collagen because they can have it can be all the sort of leftover ingredients, which means it can also contain things like heavy metals.

To be careful around what you're putting in.

But there's like, actually, when it comes to collagen pearls and powders, our bodies cannot absorb collagen in its whole form, so instead look in how can you get it through boosting it through your diet, and that comes through eating protein rich foods.

Vitamin C helps the synergize collagen in the body, as well as the other nutrients that actually help with collagen production.

So it's not just that you need the collagen, but actually you need those other nutrients that helps your body synthesize collagen production in the body.

So it might be that you're adding things like bone wrath, maybe eat more but more fish and chicken and eggs and those are all going to help with collagen formation within your own body.

And getting whole foods such a good way of doing it.

What's all this in mn in nad's business.

Yeah, minn and NAD plus is like pretty trending.

I personally find that it's still in the area would call needs more research phase, Like it's still lots of research underway, but I think knowing that why you're taking it.

So those sorts of products are really working around cellular energy production and upregulating sort of mitochondria function, which is like the batteries within your cells, and yes they are the building blocks in the body.

My biggest hesitation around them is that upregulate cellular function, which is great if you have healthy cells in your body, but what if you have some cancer cells?

Like what effect is that going to have?

And that's where I feel like sometimes products can get rolled up out in the market and they might be still in that research development phase, or the research may have been done by the supplement company that makes it, which makes it very very bias.

And I think that's where it'll be interesting to see where that goes over the years to come.

Knowing that practitioner only brands, which are brand that you can only access through seeing an integrative doctor or naturopath or chiropractor, they don't have lots of MNY or NDA plus not really out in any of the ranges, which for me is usually alarm bows is not enough clinical research to actually then be putting them under the clinical brand.

So if you see that coming through on your socials, do a little bit more research.

Just be a little wary of that.

Absolutely do the research.

And if you know you've had a history of cancer or family history of cancer, I'd be a bit more careful around putting it in.

If you're a little bit unsure, you're better to pick just a simple B vitamin because you will do less harm.

And I think knowing that when we start dosing really high, we want to be cautious.

Even if they might make you feel good short term, you just want to still be mindful of what you're putting in and what's the benefit and the risks.

Of it too mindful.

It has come up a lot, hasn't it.

We have given a lot of information.

Sorry, I know, I think we could probably talk for another hour on this fascinating We could throw so much at you, but what we are at a time, Erin is thank you so much for coming back and doing another episode with us on the little things.

Very much appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Well, there was a bit of information there.

Always it was a lot, wasn't it.

I'm sorry we've given you another one of those ones.

We listen to it on your walk and then listen to it again at home with a pen and paper, because yeah, there was a lot of really very useful information in that.

I think it's a really fascinating topic.

I mean, I personally feel for me, I like, try and get everything I need out of my diet.

But there are absolutely times in our lives where our body needs some support or we have a deficiency.

It absolutely should be looking to finding the best possible solution to help us out and to help us on our way in things.

Didn't realize it was so as complicated.

It was.

I didn't.

Well, I've always I've always sort of been I've always wanted a test for iron before I took an iron supplement.

And we learned a lot about iron doctor Levy recently, and I've always so I've always I've always sort of take gone down the blood test route before I kind of tear into anything.

And yet now there's so many questions to ask, isn't there there is really think about a lot of questions to ask, a lot of you know the importance of making sure that it's not doing any harm to you.

Well, iron is the perfect You've given the perfect example.

You wouldn't go I personally wouldn't go take an iron supplement without any evidence for it, right.

I probably wouldn't even take a probiotic.

It's been my money on a probiotic if I, you know, was having showing no signs of any gap issues.

Actually we didn't even touch on there because but that is in itself, there are so many different as Aaron would tell you, just like she did with magnesium and zinc, there were so many different kinds of probudcies.

Actually, go back and listen to Will Yes Bolshwitz, stop the will Boss, and if we told he talked about the best ones to take if that is of interest to you.

No, I thought that was really interesting, and I think it's really interesting in New Zealand about the regulation and the lack of regulation and things around that.

So just reminding people to double check, you know, the brands that maybe they're they're purchasing.

And I don't want to always be the tide hoss on this podcast, but my god, there are so many competing things for our money.

Why on earth would we go and buy a multi vitem and we've got no indication for needing or no idea whether it's doing us any benefit.

You're better to spend your money on going to see someone like Aaron.

And if you are feeling a particular way, if you've got a particular symptom, if your diet isn't hitting it, if your diet isn't cutting it, if your exercise isn't cutting it, if you're still feeling blah, you're seeing doctor, your blood testing.

Okay, you've taken all the things off the list.

Healthylbout style.

Yeah, absolutely, I think it's very very easy just to just go through and grab something off the shelf.

But and I'm not saying they're not useful.

I'm not even saying they may have a place, but gosh, you know, we're putting it in our bodies and there is a evenits We read an article preparation for this person in the States was having thought he was doing himself a favor and ended up in liver failure.

I mean it's quite you know, not to be too alarmist about it.

I did ask about the fatty Essa's people.

That's your olive oil and your avocado and things like that, so that's easy to get.

You can find erin at Aaron O'Hara dot co, Doosh and Z and of course you can hear her every Sunday morning on the Sunday Session.

She's our wellness contributor on just before eleven.

Have you got a little tip of something that's brought your joy this week?

Oh?

Yes, Well you were talking about connecting with old friends.

I've made a couple of new friends, which has been a surprising.

I thought I was kind of my dance card was fault and anybody else, And it actually isn't about needing.

It's just about enjoying the company of some people from time to time.

Totally different lafestyle, no kids, not even a pet, fancy free fun, a lot younger than us.

Actually that's kind of starting to sound weird now.

But just just waiting for you to say, and we're swinging, but we just meet for a beer or we go to a quiz lad or something.

It's really fun.

I think you're too old to make new friends.

Reason I don't know, Like it's busy, and we just don't think about that.

We think to ourselves we don't have time for our old friends, so we don't.

And maybe it is a function of your kids leaving home too.

Maybe that's why we're a couple of guys that are because that's my son said to the other day, said what have you been up to?

And I told her he goes, you guys are really getting out and about and I'm like, yeah, well now that we've we've spent nineteen years racing, you go at a time on our hands.

This is great, And what about you, Francisca sunshine has not been gorgeous?

That simple find the corner of the room where the sun is, you know, coming into the house, or where it hits the garden, and just take a cup of tea and just go and sit outside, shut your eyes for five minutes and just taken this unshine.

Yes too good, all good.

Thank you for joining us on our new Zealand Herald podcast series, The Little Things.

We hope you share this podcast with the women in your life so we can all get the right support we need.

You can follow this podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more episodes from us on other topics, head to inzaid Herald dot co dot zid and we'll catch you next time on the Little Things.